And the winner is:
And the winner is:
Syd-a-ney
Syd-a-ney
:)
Not the way they are playing! :)
game over.
About 2 hours too late!
Pack us up and re wrap us a FITZROY.
We are playing just as good as them and may as well deserve the indignity given to them.
Even money Ch.7 are lobbying hard to remove us from the remainder of this seasons FTA coverage, Flubbo will be writing the TV channel needs CheatsFC in our place!
That 3rd quarter reminded me of the Denis Pagan days.
Kick/mark, kick/mark. kick/mark and move it ooohhhhhhh so slowly. Never known a side to get the ball into the F50 so slowly.
We are a professional, proud club. How have we farked it up so badly for so long.
Yeah rebuild, but be competitive for farks sake.
I was going to take the lad to the game tonight but I was sick of taking him to games where we get pelted.
We don't play here often, but when we do, we usually play like we are tonight.
Completely uninterested. >:(
Our worst game by a considerable margin. We fumbled. We could not sustain pressure. We made some terrible skill errors. We were murdered in the ruck. We missed goals I could have kicked.
I wouldn't want to be frustrated.
Next thing people will be claiming it would have been worse with Kerridge, Palmer, Daisy and Jones.
I doubt it!
But give the people what they want, their sacrifice!
That 3rd quarter reminded me of the Denis Pagan days.
That's funny...I felt the same.
Kick/mark, kick/mark. kick/mark and move it ooohhhhhhh so slowly. Never known a side to get the ball into the F50 so slowly.
We need to be a lot more skilful with our ball movement, and have a lot more players who are very good contested marks, to get away with that style of play. Certain teams with the right players can overcome the flood - we are not that team.
That 3rd quarter reminded me of the Denis Pagan days.
Indeed. It was insipid. There wasn't much spirit on display. It all started from the middle, just like in the Pagan days. Ryder had a picnic against Phillips, who simply didn't look up to it after half time.
Well that was about as much fun as shaving with a rusty steak knife and swimming in vinegar. But I guess that's what happens when too many kids line up with senior players that aren't playing well or working hard enough.
Everything was off tonight - didn't work anywhere near hard enough both when we had the ball and in defence, poor disposal (really, really poor disposal) and we played like it was wet by just kicking long as soon as we got our hands on the ball.
We all knew there would be weeks like this. And chances are this won't be the only time we get smashed this year.
Move the ball slowly because there is no focal point at CHF directing traffic.
A lot of missed tackles, that will Come with body strength and conditioning.
Our midfielders are slow as a group and dont spread enough, and we got killed on the outside by Polec et al. Didnt help getting slaughtered in the ruck. Gibbs played as bad/ineffective a game as i have seen. Ed is another, have to question his future.
Very tough night. That third QTR ????
Irrelevant in the midfield, worried for Cripps I'm just not sure about him. Competitive beast but ed curnowish by foot. Will be better with some more help than Gibbs and Murphy. I hope.
Speaking of curnow, Charlie was immense tonight - at least 8 marks and impacted the game. Was everywhere.
Jack sos, go back and take the kick son. Looks scared to take set shots and he shouldn't be.
Weiters. Play down back for a few, win some confidence or have a rest.
70 inside 50s to port apparently so midfield got smashed, seriously hope krooz is fit, Phillips was absolutely putrid.
Ins:
Kruezer, Jacksh, Cunningham
Out:
Murphy (Inj)
Phillips
Macreadie
Lucky to stay in:
Sos, Pickett, sps
We need to be a lot more skilful with our ball movement, and have a lot more players who are very good contested marks, to get away with that style of play. Certain teams with the right players can overcome the flood - we are not that team.
You think this is better? You'll be surprised how much better you can use the ball when there is space up forward and a forward can run onto the ball. Tough to use the ball well when it's always crowded.
Well that was about as much fun as shaving with a rusty steak knife and swimming in vinegar. But I guess that's what happens when too many kids line up with senior players that aren't playing well or working hard enough.
Everything was off tonight - didn't work anywhere near hard enough both when we had the ball and in defence, poor disposal (really, really poor disposal) and we played like it was wet by just kicking long as soon as we got our hands on the ball.
We all knew there would be weeks like this. And chances are this won't be the only time we get smashed this year.
How do you get that?
The result is because the senior players were the only ones working!
1Patrick Cripps 14 23 37 3 0 3 0 5 0 1 121
2Sam Docherty 24 5 29 7 0 1 0 1 0 0 108
3Kade Simpson 13 8 21 9 0 0 0 5 0 0 102
4Bryce Gibbs 13 11 24 3 0 0 0 6 1 1 101
5Marc Murphy 16 9 25 11 0 0 1 0 0 1 97
6Charlie Curnow 16 3 19 8 0 2 0 3 0 0 92
7Levi Casboult 9 3 12 5 5 1 1 1 4 1 80
8Lachie Plowman 14 3 17 7 0 1 0 2 0 1 79
9Jack Silvagni 10 8 18 7 0 0 0 0 1 1 74
10Sam Petrevski-Seton 11 5 16 4 0 0 1 5 0 1 73
10Caleb Marchbank 10 3 13 7 0 0 0 4 0 0 73
12Simon White 10 9 19 7 0 0 1 1 0 0 70
13Tom Williamson 11 7 18 5 0 0 0 1 0 1 67
14Ed Curnow 8 9 17 2 0 0 1 5 0 0 65
15Matthew Wright 8 10 18 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 59
16Andrew Phillips 3 2 5 1 29 1 3 3 0 0 49
17Zac Fisher 8 9 17 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 44
18Cameron Polson 3 8 11 0 0 1 0 2 0 1 35
19Jacob Weitering 5 4 9 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 32
20Harrison Macreadie 4 4 8 2 0 0 0 1 0 0 30
21Jarrod Pickett 3 4 7 3 0 1 2 1 0 0 25
22Sam Rowe 1 3 4 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 17
Have to play the kids to get experience, hammerings like this are part of the education process.....players like Gray, Wingard, Polec burn us every game so it wasnt unexpected it would happen again given the amount of ball they had.
Charlie Curnow showed a bit, like Fisher as a player, Polson gets another game next week, SPS learned you have to get rid of the ball quicker and leave some of the candy selling for games where we have better control...Macreadie looked a bit slow , Marchbank was reasonable, Weitering had no supply down forward, Williamson continues to impress with his kicking.
Pickett was disappointing with his attack on the footy at times...picked and chose a few contests and needs to do better...
Cripps battled on but looks injured, Murphy tried, Gibbs ok at times and Casboult converted most of his chances...
Docherty had a shocker, Rowe did his job, Simpson looks like he is winding down....GC and Port both make him look a bit slow, the courage is still there but I thought he struggled to keep up with the younger players.
Ryder beat Philips but I didnt think the ruck was a major factor in us losing..
Need to move on quickly to the Swans game and not dwell on this one.....
Kids ran out of gas and were ragdolled in the clinches....and that's physically demanding.
Speaking of curnow, Charlie was immense tonight - at least 8 marks and impacted the game. Was everywhere.
:o
You think this is better? You'll be surprised how much better you can use the ball when there is space up forward and a forward can run onto the ball. Tough to use the ball well when it's always crowded.
You misread my post. We don't have the personnel to pull off that style of play.
Ed was very ordinary...not sure what he brings these days, slow, hacker disposal, must be in the gun.
Ed was very ordinary...not sure what he brings these days, slow, hacker disposal, must be in the gun.
Agree. But he's not Pat Malone.
:o
Go on....easily the best young player. Easily.
Marked and linked play. Looked pretty good to me, not sure what you saw though?
Looked clean apart from one fumble in the first and I'd go so far as to suggest our best player. Cripps was poo.
You misread my post. We don't have the personnel to pull off that style of play.
You still like have someone running past after we take a mark to take a handball and open it up. I'd like to see us do stuff like that. We pick quick players so use the strength and run and carry. Not going to win many anyway so do it.
Ed was very ordinary...not sure what he brings these days, slow, hacker disposal, must be in the gun.
Not many tricks has Ed and the best taggers work both ways....problem is there are no other alternatives on the list
and I think having a potential very good player in brother Charlie might cut Ed some slack.
If you were to cut 10 players on our list Ed probably would still survive given what we have to work with....
You still like have someone running past after we take a mark to take a handball and open it up. I'd like to see us do stuff like that. We pick quick players so use the strength. Not going to win many anyway so do it.
Dude, I'm a Ratten man, remember ? I agree with you 100%.
How do you get that?
The result is because the senior players were the only ones working!
1Patrick Cripps 14 23 37 3 0 3 0 5 0 1 121
2Sam Docherty 24 5 29 7 0 1 0 1 0 0 108
3Kade Simpson 13 8 21 9 0 0 0 5 0 0 102
4Bryce Gibbs 13 11 24 3 0 0 0 6 1 1 101
5Marc Murphy 16 9 25 11 0 0 1 0 0 1 97
6Charlie Curnow 16 3 19 8 0 2 0 3 0 0 92
7Levi Casboult 9 3 12 5 5 1 1 1 4 1 80
8Lachie Plowman 14 3 17 7 0 1 0 2 0 1 79
9Jack Silvagni 10 8 18 7 0 0 0 0 1 1 74
10Sam Petrevski-Seton 11 5 16 4 0 0 1 5 0 1 73
10Caleb Marchbank 10 3 13 7 0 0 0 4 0 0 73
12Simon White 10 9 19 7 0 0 1 1 0 0 70
13Tom Williamson 11 7 18 5 0 0 0 1 0 1 67
14Ed Curnow 8 9 17 2 0 0 1 5 0 0 65
15Matthew Wright 8 10 18 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 59
16Andrew Phillips 3 2 5 1 29 1 3 3 0 0 49
17Zac Fisher 8 9 17 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 44
18Cameron Polson 3 8 11 0 0 1 0 2 0 1 35
19Jacob Weitering 5 4 9 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 32
20Harrison Macreadie 4 4 8 2 0 0 0 1 0 0 30
21Jarrod Pickett 3 4 7 3 0 1 2 1 0 0 25
22Sam Rowe 1 3 4 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 17
The stat sheet really doesn't capture the quality of performances tonight.
Not saying the kids were great, but they're inexperienced and still developing. That's what they'll play like when too many play together and senior players aren't standing up.
Kids ran out of gas and were ragdolled in the clinches....and that's physically demanding.
Yep and Port had the talent and maturity to really take advantage. If they had been more accurate this could have really blown out to a much more ugly result. Disappointing without doubt but not entirely unexpected. We have no choice but to soldier on with our development. We don't have the luxury of a lot of significant mature talent, apart from Kreuzer maybe, to bring in, but I would definitely be looking at giving a rest to a couple though, maybe Cripps and Weitering. They both looked to be struggling to me and we don't want to burn them up.
And so it begins, so predictable.
Not even 1hr after the final siren we are front page in The Hun!
Fans slam AFL’s decision to fixture Carlton on Friday night after blowout against Port Adelaide
Herald Sun 22 minutes ago
THE AFL’s fixturing for Friday night matches is back on the agenda after a blowout at Adelaide Oval that saw Port Adelaide thump Carlton.
The Blues were a major disappointment as they fielded a young team that was no match for the Power, with the game effectively over five minutes into the third term.
Carlton was blown away in that quarter, failing to register a possession inside 50 from just two entries, while Port Adelaide had 16 scoring shots to blow the lead out to 79 points at the final break.
With two NRL matches and the start of the A-League finals to compete with, some footy fans took to social media to declare they’d switched off the AFL in favour of a more competitive and thus entertaining match.
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Matt @Mattys123
Two NRL thrillers and the A League first final goes to extra time. Yep. If you are still watching the AFL tonight, you're doing it wrong
9:52 PM - 21 Apr 2017
Retweets 5 5 likes
This year the AFL has tried to fixture the better performing teams of recent seasons in the marquee slot after the league was criticised for scheduling big but underperforming clubs on Friday nights, which resulted in a poor spectacle.
The good news is fans won’t see Carlton on a Friday night again this year.
Reigning premiers Western Bulldogs have eight Friday night matches this year but winless Sydney also has eight games in the marquee slot.
Next week Friday night footy should produce a better contest between the Bulldogs and flag favourites the Giants, who will play their first ever Friday night game.
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Aubrey Hamlett ???? @aubreyhamlett
What a woeful match of Friday night footy #AFLpowerblues
9:33 PM - 21 Apr 2017 · Melbourne, Victoria
Retweets 1 1 like
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Mark Riley @MiSeRay
Worse game of Football I have watched all year. Definitely not worthy of a Friday Night game #AFLPowerBlues
9:33 PM - 21 Apr 2017
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Damian Glass @DGlass_official
Can we not fixture Carlton on Friday night footy for at least the next three years? Ruined another night. #AFLPowerBlues
9:32 PM - 21 Apr 2017
9 9 Retweets 29 29 likes
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Matt Bryant @MattBryant15
I hope the next time I see Carlton on Friday night, Channel 7 will be advertising the 2020 Olympics is only weeks away. #AFLPowerBlues
10:16 PM - 21 Apr 2017
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1h
Channel 7 ✔ @Channel7
Can the Blues come from behind? LIVE on 7 and 7mate now... https://twitter.com/7afl/status/855377375822921728 …
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Ray Cameron @bombersfan63
@Channel7 Friday night footy tonight is a flop ???? Sadly.#aflpowerblues
10:15 PM - 21 Apr 2017
1 1 Retweet likes
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Anthony Kernich @AntJKernich
why did the AFL let a train wreck into Friday Night #aflpowerblues #afl
10:10 PM - 21 Apr 2017
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The stats are flawed. Docherty, Simpson, Gibbs and Murphy were all well beaten today.
Green Shoots for Round 5:
- Polson's chase down tackle
- Another small bag to Levi
- SOS never stopped trying
- Charlie Curnow prob showed his best stuff so far, particularly in the 1st half
- Cripps return to decent form
- Charlie Dixon kept quiet
- We didn't lay down in the last term
- With 10 players 21 and under, we were never going to go anywhere near a win.
-------------------------------
Unfortunately, we will always get cut apart by our opponents because we don't make them pay on the scoreboard when we should, and our skills are pathetic and we all too often turn the ball over to them.
Our supposed senior leaders always were and always will be 'downhill skiers'. Again for the second week in a row, they were invisible in the 3rd term when we were crying out for leadership.
The stats are flawed. Docherty, Simpson, Gibbs and Murphy were all well beaten today.
Even so they were clearly among our best!
We had zero winners, even Cripps was just a break even with Wines.
Stats wise, Rowe came last but was probably our BOG!
The stat sheet really doesn't capture the quality of performances tonight.
Not saying the kids were great, but they're inexperienced and still developing. That's what they'll play like when too many play together and senior players aren't standing up.
Totally agree. With our senior guys well beaten the kids are effectively thrown to the sharks.
Go on....easily the best young player. Easily.
Marked and linked play. Looked pretty good to me, not sure what you saw though?
Looked clean apart from one fumble in the first and I'd go so far as to suggest our best player. Cripps was poo.
Immense?
Yep and Port had the talent and maturity to really take advantage. If they had been more accurate this could have really blown out to a much more ugly result. Disappointing without doubt but not entirely unexpected. We have no choice but to soldier on with our development. We don't have the luxury of a lot of significant mature talent, apart from Kreuzer maybe, to bring in, but I would definitely be looking at giving a rest to a couple though, maybe Cripps and Weitering. They both looked to be struggling to me and we don't want to burn them up.
Bit late for Cripps, had the warnings signs last season he was banged up and needed resting and he looks sore and not moving freely, we needed to recruit a couple of bigger mids
to help him out...thats a no brainer and I'd have to say even though SOS drafted well last draft he missed adding those types and we are paying for it now...
Jones or Jaksch or both need to play this week as well to give us an extra tall....
Totally agree. With our senior guys well beaten the kids are effectively thrown to the sharks.
With the kids not really competitive or contributing the senior players get run into the ground! ;)
Always painful to get a flogging. My sympathy goes to my fellow Bagger's :'(
It wasn't too unexpected. I'll confess I tipped Port :-[ hate tipping against us, but there's a realist tucked inside too.
We all know these types of results will occur on the rebuild. That said, again some of our seniors were patchy, and we just can't afford that.
Hats off to Casboult. He worked his butt off for four quarters.
The Plow stepped up beyond his level of experience. Ditto Marchbank. Sam Rowe again held up the big monster without racking up stats. We struggled in the middle. Gibbs was picky, Murphy looked hurt, and Crippa is a ripper. But he's just one man.
Little Zac, McCreadie, Williamson, Sammo, and Pickett continue to show something. I can see Sammo soaking it all in. Looks like he's AFL tuning his visio-spacial skills. When tuned, he'll have a breakout game. Exciting.
Of the kids, I thought Charlie had his best game. Looks like his endurance is developing (perhaps he was battling residual GF issues). What was most impressive is his attack on the game despite a dreadful scoreline. Suggests his mental strength is coming on.
Not my favorite Blues moment, although not unexpected. There will be much to be gained from a big interstate loss for this young side. All rebuilding teams have been here. Not pretty but par for the course. This group will bond in victory and in struggle.
Well bluebaggers, take a deep breath. Enjoy the rest of the weekend ^-^
Gibbs must be traded/....
With the kids not really competitive or contributing the senior players get run into the ground! ;)
You mean exhausting themselves running both ways? ;)
With you Fly, for a 200 game player he has too many nothing games, was invisible today. Goal kicking unreliable, panics with the ball, coughs it up under pressure, can't spread...confidence looks shot.
Gibbs must be traded/....
Agreed. We may not get the deal we want this year if he keeps playing like that. But we may as well offload him to make salary cap space and go after some free agents like Fyfe and dusty who will actually play hard and not let the opposition rough up Cripps every week.
Green Shoots for Round 5:
- Polson's chase down tackle
That was good. Polson didn't have a big night and didn't work hard enough negatively. However, he will get better. He has had a taste and he will be better for the experience.
- Another small bag to Levi
If would move the ball a bit better it could have been a big bag. Levi was our most dangerous forward by a long way.
- SOS never stopped trying
His work on the ground and his evasion skills are improving every week. He doesn't seem to have the belief in his marking or his set shots at the moment. And his reflexes will improve.
- Charlie Curnow prob showed his best stuff so far, particularly in the 1st half
By far his best game and the way he did it was really promising.
- Cripps return to decent form
A little closer to fitness than he was last week, but still not 100%. He will get better.
- Charlie Dixon kept quiet
An excellent job by our defenders. Rowe early was very good in keeping a dangerous forward quiet. Unfortunately they did find other avenues to goal. Grey killed us.
- We didn't lay down in the last term
Indeed.
- With 10 players 21 and under, we were never going to go anywhere near a win.
Probably true. I think a couple of them will be rested next week. We are a little too young. However, the other guys need to stand up.
-------------------------------
Unfortunately, we will always get cut apart by our opponents because we don't make them pay on the scoreboard when we should, and our skills are pathetic and we all too often turn the ball over to them.
Our supposed senior leaders always were and always will be 'downhill skiers'. Again for the second week in a row, they were invisible in the 3rd term when we were crying out for leadership.
I think you are bit harsh there. Gibbs and Murphy actually performed about as well as they could when we couldn't get first use. Mind you, they can do more, but they weren't missing, like they have been in the past.
I think the value of Kreuzer was very much on show tonight. He isn't the greatest ruckman, but his work rate and effort this year have often stymied 'better' opponents. Phillips couldn't stop Ryder at all and was out-bodied by smaller opponents. Half his taps went directly to Port players as well. Kreuzer would no have been beaten so comprehensively and would have allowed our mids to be more effective.
Immense?
Well he was probs our best player, let's pick apart little words then shall we. He was solid and looked composed for four quarters. Strong hands, good skills.
ffs ????
With you Fly, for a 200 game player he has too many nothing games, was invisible today. Goal kicking unreliable, panics with the ball, coughs it up under pressure, can't spread...confidence looks shot.
+1
Definitely not one of his better days. I think there is a big chance he will go this year but we need a big strong mature mid to replace him.
Even so they were clearly among our best!
We had zero winners, even Cripps was just a break even with Wines.
Stats wise, Rowe came last but was probably our BOG!
I think Gibbs was okay, Murphy below average, Simpson poor and Docherty WOG.
Agree on Rowe, having a fine season in a tough position.
That 3rd quarter reminded me of the Denis Pagan days.
(Not so) fun fact.
Brittains record at Carlton
44 games (17-27)
61% of all games were losses
5% of all games were 10+ goal losses
Pagans record at Carlton
103 games (77-24-2)
75% of all games were losses
21% of all games were 10+ goal losses
Rattens record at Carlton
116 games (59-56-1)
48% of all games were losses
5% of all games were 10+ goal losses
Micks record at Carlton
52 games (19-32-1)
62% of all games were losses
13% of all games were 10+ goal losses
Boltons record at Carlton
27 games (8-19)
70% of all games were losses
22% of all games were 10+ goal losses
You mean exhausting themselves running both ways? ;)
You're trying to infer our senior players don't run both ways, but that is clearly not the case as it was the likes of Docherty, Gibbs, Murphy, Simpson, Rowe you saw working at both ends of the ground!
What you don't appreciate is the amount of extra work the senior players are doing to make up for the lack of awareness and positioning by the kids.
Despite a very few moments of interest, the kids tonight excluding C.Curnow were mostly made to look slow, ineffective and timid! They are children, and we are playing way too many of them.
During Bolts presser, when he said the team is picked on form, is clearly bullcrap! He's starting to spin as he sees his chance of being re-signed evaporating!
Rucci nearly asked the tough question but they cut him off, he was going to ask Bolts about the long term risk of playing too many kids and letting them get psychologically and physically smashed!
(Not so) fun fact.
Brittains record at Carlton
44 games (17-27)
61% of all games were losses
5% of all games were 10+ goal losses
Pagans record at Carlton
103 games (77-24-2)
75% of all games were losses
21% of all games were 10+ goal losses
Rattens record at Carlton
116 games (59-56-1)
48% of all games were losses
5% of all games were 10+ goal losses
Micks record at Carlton
52 games (19-32-1)
62% of all games were losses
13% of all games were 10+ goal losses
Boltons record at Carlton
27 games (8-19)
70% of all games were losses
22% of all games were 10+ goal losses
So we need to bring Parkin back?
Unfortunately there is no stat or measure to show how little the group has actually played together as a unit. If there was one out of 10, we would be a 1 or 2.
Even the mighty Hawthorn with limited senior players and a group that lacked the continuity of playing weeks and weeks together, is vulnerable to the point of where they had 11 goals were kicked against them in the last quarter, last week.
If you're not prepared to be patient, I suggest you look away for a few years because these days will be here occasionally over the next 2 years.
Watched first half only. Given that we were 4 goals down very quickly (& game over), I actually thought our attitude was ok. Would have been nice to be 6.5 at half time.
Experienced players wouldn't have changed the result, but saved a few kids from becoming demoralized.
I think I heard Bolton say Cripps has done something to his obliques, so has been playing injured.
Nothing will be worse than Pagan days, as our list was terrible with no prospect of getting better.
Geez we missed the big tractor tonight.
The mids had no presence and no protection without him. We looked weak and slow around the ball
.
Anyone we thinks we can afford to lose him by not extending his contract has rocks in their head.
Cripps aside our mids are a very weak group of footballers and as they are also slow without any contact the opposition just burn us on the spread when they win the ball. Kreuzer ploughs thru the contested play and hurts opposition mids with his bullocking style of play-his big body blocks their run and he makes it so much harder for them as they can rarely use the ball without body contact when he is in the frame.
Might not gets stats for it but we need him and I thought missed him badly tonight.
With you Fly, for a 200 game player he has too many nothing games, was invisible today. Goal kicking unreliable, panics with the ball, coughs it up under pressure, can't spread...confidence looks shot.
Noticed Gibbs hesitate to attack the ball/player several times. Not sure if that's confidence or a form of self a preservation. I've heard lots of Bagger's refer to him as a cherry picker. I'm just perplexed with the variance in his performance, particularly given his durability.
So we need to bring Parkin back?
Perhaps.
You made reference to Pagan-like performance.
Currently, statistically, we get thumped by 10 goals more often under Bolton than we did under Pagan.....and i think its a long year ahead.
Bolton also has a worse win/loss record than Mick as it stands, only Pagans is worse.
Its funny, during Pagans era we had all these young #1 kids who were going to be our saviours. We also had Fevola. Plenty of hope and potential. Turned out not-so great in the long run.
We have the same kind of hope going now, and we almost all agree that we are in a better off position this time....but...until we are, we're not.
Noticed Gibbs hesitate to attack the ball/player several times. Not sure if that's confidence or a form of self a preservation. I've heard lots of Bagger's refer to him as a cherry picker. I'm just perplexed with the variance in his performance, particularly given his durability.
Played almost 3 quarters with a dislocated or broken thumb, not a bad effort. While that was going on Ling was telling everyone how tough Dangerfield was to play 3 quarters after a knee in the ribs.
Gibbs deserves more respect.
With the kids not really competitive or contributing the senior players get run into the ground! ;)
I think it's a bit rich to blame the senior players for tonight's performance. The MC must have decided that getting games into the young blokes is more important than being competitive ... not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that.
There were good signs from SOJ, Marchbank and Charlie Curnow, Samo wasn't bad and the other young fellows showed glimpses.
The player that concerns me most is Docherty; after a reasonable game last week, he really struggled tonight. Perhaps not having the luxury of playing as a loose man has brought him back to the field.
Technically, Phillips won the ruck with 13 hitouts to advantage to Ryder's 9 but that ignores Ryder's impact around the ground. We certainly missed Kreuzer and, dare I say, Daisy.
Gibbs deserves special recognition for his effort with a dislocated/broken thumb.
Yep doc was terrible. No space to work in and no tsrgets to kick to = turnover merchant.
Bodywork embarrassing for a senior player
Played almost 3 quarters with a dislocated or broken thumb, not a bad effort. While that was going on Ling was telling everyone how tough Dangerfield was to play 3 quarters after a knee in the ribs.
Gibbs deserves more respect.
Didn't know his thumb was injured. That would understandably make one hesitant.
Hope it's not serious. We're running out of beds in the sickbay.
Gibbs didn't even come off the ground after doing that, and got stuck in tackling and handballing at the next centre contest after putting his thumb back in.
I thought we missed Daisy a bit too tonight.
Wright played up the field in his absence which wasn't as effective and robbed our forwardline of a good goal sneak.
You're trying to infer our senior players don't run both ways, but that is clearly not the case as it was the likes of Docherty, Gibbs, Murphy, Simpson, Rowe you saw working at both ends of the ground!
What you don't appreciate is the amount of extra work the senior players are doing to make up for the lack of awareness and positioning by the kids.
Despite a very few moments of interest, the kids tonight excluding C.Curnow were mostly made to look slow, ineffective and timid! They are children, and we are playing way too many of them.
During Bolts presser, when he said the team is picked on form, is clearly bullcrap! He's starting to spin as he sees his chance of being re-signed evaporating!
Rucci nearly asked the tough question but they cut him off, he was going to ask Bolts about the long term risk of playing too many kids and letting them get psychologically and physically smashed!
We are faced with the problem of having to blood young players into an environment where our existing senior group has not been successful for a number of years and there are good reasons for that, one oft touted on this forum is that they didn't run both ways. So now they have to maybe work a bit harder to assist in developing those youngsters. I don't like having to play so many youngsters but that imo is the result of years of poor list management. We have to try and move forward and playing the non strategic players is not the answer. GWS had to do it albeit with draft advantages but they did it. And btw, I have no real beef with Rowe or Simpson.
Green Shoots for Round 5:
- Polson's chase down tackle
- Another small bag to Levi
- SOS never stopped trying
- Charlie Curnow prob showed his best stuff so far, particularly in the 1st half
- Cripps return to decent form
- Charlie Dixon kept quiet
- We didn't lay down in the last term
- With 10 players 21 and under, we were never going to go anywhere near a win.
-------------------------------
Unfortunately, we will always get cut apart by our opponents because we don't make them pay on the scoreboard when we should, and our skills are pathetic and we all too often turn the ball over to them.
Our supposed senior leaders always were and always will be 'downhill skiers'. Again for the second week in a row, they were invisible in the 3rd term when we were crying out for leadership.
I'm sick of this green shoots business. Firstly, why the hell are we playing 9 teenagers in round 5? Are we tanking? Do they not know that you can still make the 8? Bolton and Co. have lost the plot... and possibly some of the players. Marc Murphy 0 tackles. I repeat, 0 tackles. You are kidding me. He is the captain, the least he can do is tackle. Rowe 3 disposals. You are kidding me. Weitering looks SHOT. I am really unhappy about this. He was doing perfectly fine down back until Bolton throws him up forward as a last stance effort to show we've got a forward. Wrecking him. SPS is good, and I think Marchbank is ok. The rest very iffy. Including Zac fisher who looked soft to me. Again only managed to lay 1 tackle. Edward Kernow is awful. Gibbs is soft and I think Phillips looks like a hack. Why wouldn't you play a guy like Nick Graham who gets the hard ball, plenty of touches as knows how to play AFL? Where is Kristian Jask? What are they doing with Harry Mckay? If you drafted Smedts and Palmer, Silvangni too as a hard body, then why not play them.
I don't understand it. Can someone please explain?
During Bolts presser, when he said the team is picked on form, is clearly bullcrap!......
.......................................................
I was disappointed by this as well. He seemed to contradict himself moments later.
Its funny, during Pagans era we had all these young #1 kids who were going to be our saviours. We also had Fevola. Plenty of hope and potential. Turned out not-so great in the long run.
All these young #1 kids ? We had 2. Krooz was drafted after Pagan was sacked.
Look, i can understand the impatience as we haven't had any real success in 15 years, but we are starting again.
I must admit i am a sore loser and as impatient as the next bloke but we need to give these guys time to develop.
Losing Kreuzer and Daisy really hurt.
MK is a bull in form that really adds that extra grunt mid to give Cripps, Murph and Gibbs a chop out.
Daisy even though he is grossly overpaid (not his fault), cant kick over a jam tin anymore, and lacks a yard of pace is still an experienced senior player who directs traffic and is only viewed by all us experts as a list clogger. His role in the team is important for the young blokes IMO. I hope they are both back in next week.
Polson, SPS, Pickett and Fisher all have elite speed and skill sets and will complement the bull Cripps in years to come.
Williamson is a jet. Could be anything but i think he will be another big quick mid once he builds his tank.
C. Curnow had 19 touches and 8 marks. Impressed with his game (his 10th) just in case anyone forgot.
Marchbank, Plowman and Macreadie and Docherty form the nucleus of a superior backline for 10+ years.
Matty Wright. Will probably play another 5 years with us but i'd love to see him back to his old role of high half forward. Played on a wing because Daisy was out.
My god if Weitering got some decent F50 entries he would be clunking a few but our mids are moving it too damn slow allowing defensive structures to be set up in our F50. If he was getting some decent delivery he could kick 40 goals plus. But it takes time.
We need to be patient as much as it hurts watching us get pantsed, we really need this new young brigade to play 50 games together as a unit. Then things will start to happen.
This is our first true re-build in how long?? This is a new Carlton and we are going to experience many ups and downs.
Buckle up your seat belts and enjoy the ride people.
It shames me to say, but we were Hawthorn-like last night.
@ Blue Avenger
Excellent post. We must hold our nerve.
Well he was probs our best player, let's pick apart little words then shall we. He was solid and looked composed for four quarters. Strong hands, good skills.
ffs ????
Dunno what game you watched but he was not our best player.
Dunno what game you watched but he was not our best player.
Same one as you I assume. Don't take a cheap shot without putting your cards on the table.
Gibbs must be traded/....
I think I agree with this now. He offers no leadership, cant help "stop the the rot" in a game like last night. Basically he is a downhill skier, would be good in a top line side but useless for us. For someone on his coin and with his experience, I expect a lot more when the chips are down. Oooooo, he popped his thumb back in a soldiered on, whoppy feckin do.
Same one as you I assume. Don't take a cheap shot without putting your cards on the table.
You dont think Cripps was better? I'd say he was close to immense playing under duress and gathering nearly 40 touches. How about Marchbank, Rowe, Plowman? Rowe kept Dixon fairly quiet I thought. Its not a cheap shot, I just think your putting a fair bit of mayo on the kids game. Yes it was better than what he has produced thus fair, I just wouldn't call it immense nor would I say he was our best. Apologies if I offended.
I think Gibbs was okay, Murphy below average, Simpson poor and Docherty WOG.
Agree on Rowe, having a fine season in a tough position.
Agree on Doc, disagree on Gibbs, thought he was almost W.O.G. Turned it over too much for a bloke with his experience.
You dont think Cripps was better? I'd say he was close to immense playing under duress and gathering nearly 40 touches. How about Marchbank, Rowe, Plowman? Rowe kept Dixon fairly quiet I thought. Its not a cheap shot, I just think your putting a fair bit of mayo on the kids game. Yes it was better than what he has produced thus fair, I just wouldn't call it immense nor would I say he was our best. Apologies if I offended.
Like I said earlier I thought Cripps was no good, 30 odd possessions but effectiveness down and didn't hurt. I'm a bit worried about him. March bank I'll pay you, didn't think plowman was awesome.
Mayo possibly, but to me he genuinely look the most assured.
@BA
Terrific post. I'm also a sore loser but perspective is required at this stage. I really thought we would have done better than that and confident pre game. I still dont rate Port, they will be exposed when the whips start cracking dont worry about that, blokes like Gray, Wingard and even Wines go missing when things get hard. But well done to them, they did what they had to against us last night in the end.
Interested in people's thoughts on docherty. A shadow of himself compared to last year. Is it the loss of tuohy as another outlet - so as our only outlet is easier for opposing players to shut him down?
Also, I don't think we had a tackle in the forward 50 until q4. Clearly not good enough and for this along I think could cost picket his spot.
Anyone going to have a crack at the pathetic coaching performance last night?
Ignore the rebuild for the moment, the speed of ball movement (and I admittedly tuned out during Q3) was glacial.....
Interested in people's thoughts on docherty. A shadow of himself compared to last year. Is it the loss of tuohy as another outlet - so as our only outlet is easier for opposing players to shut him down?
Also, I don't think we had a tackle in the forward 50 until q4. Clearly not good enough and for this along I think could cost picket his spot.
Your'e right, we put very little pressure on to keep the ball in our 50 during the patch of entries.
Your'e right, we put very little pressure on to keep the ball in our 50 during the patch of entries.
Will the Captain, with zero tackles, get the same treatment then?
I want to know why our opposition manage to get separation on our blokes so easily? We get murdered on the spread btw the 50's and oppo fowards often mark hands out on a lead.
In contrast, our ability to spread is terrible and our fwd are always being asked to pack mark and crumb.
Our set up and running patterns need alot of work.
I sat through every game of the Pagan years so I reckon I can make as qualified comments on last night as any media pundit.
Cameron Ling and I don't agree on much but he is correct in that Cripps is a gun and as Rioli is currently discovering, hard to be a game breaker every week without support. The media commentary around Cripps (currently injured) is laughable.
To lose by 90 points wasn't great as losing sucks, the third quarter was awful but I can see a future. Port are a fit, professional outfit and laid bare every single one of our inadequacies, but this was far from the hopeless efforts of the Pagan days.
Bwecie can massage himself to a frothy frenzy but the likes of Ollie Wines shading (and that's debateable) a hurt player under the cover of complete ruck dominance and bashing around some of kids didn't impress me. Port did what was required and nothing more. Kreuzer's absence cost us any chance and made a massive difference.
Why? Because our kids - basically half the side - are playing before their time.... but they all possess skill-sets that indicate that they are going to be damn fine players in time. Polson for example attempted to lay about a dozen tackles and either bounced off or was swatted away - his body simply isn't ready but he bloody well had a go and got to the right places. Jack is scared to kick on goal but on three occasions danced around multiple opponents - when did you last see that? Can you imagine Polec crapping himself having to chase a 100 kg Curnow around all day, because I can.
Once the ruck dominance kicked in and the youngsters ran out of gas this was always going to be a blow out, but I am really, really enthused about these kids, they are going to be the core of a bloody good side. So unlike the Pagan days, there is a future because the upside is immense.
Main thing that passed me off last night was our inability to hit s bloody target. If we had less than 30 kicks that we're kicked directly or to the advantage of a port player going forward I'd be staggered.. we need blokes who are quick and can friggin kick. Also, why do we always draft little blokes? Other teams seem to have solid man child's?
Will the Captain, with zero tackles, get the same treatment then?
Precisely.
Port are a handy outfit, with some real high end talent, playing on their own dung heap, and have been told in no uncertain terms, that if they don't make finals, heads will roll. Playing against a team where nearly half the starting 18 still have nocturnal emissions and acne lotion.
Last night was horrible, and I'm not so certain about the coaching or all this amazing youthful talent, but I guess we'll all know soon enough.
Will the Captain, with zero tackles, get the same treatment then?
Yes, as will SOS, Wright and Weiters who also had zero.
Jb, all the bigger bodied more "AFL ready" mids went in the first 20 picks or so, after that you're picking classy kids that need work to complete the package e.g. Fisher.
We needs two more picks in the first round last year but it didn't happen, was never going to. Last draft was the year to rebuild the midfield but you can't cover every list gap in one year.
p.s. I reckon Murphy has had so much shoulder surgery (e.g. rotator cuff) and associated issues that he can barely lift his arm above the perpendicular, like myself. Makes tackling weak. I don't think its a will issue but a physical limitation.
Jb, all the bigger bodied more "AFL ready" mids went in the first 20 picks or so, after that you're picking classy kids that need work to complete the package e.g. Fisher.
We needs two more picks in the first round last year but it didn't happen, was never going to. Last draft was the year to rebuild the midfield but you can't cover every list gap in one year.
p.s. I reckon Murphy has had so much shoulder surgery (e.g. rotator cuff) and associated issues that he can barely lift his arm above the perpendicular, like myself. Makes tackling weak. I don't think its a will issue but a physical limitation.
Agree with all this.
Port are a handy outfit, with some real high end talent, playing on their own dung heap, and have been told in no uncertain terms, that if they don't make finals, heads will roll. Playing against a team where nearly half the starting 18 still have nocturnal emissions and acne lotion.
Last night was horrible, and I'm not so certain about the coaching or all this amazing youthful talent, but I guess we'll all know soon enough.
Paul we have chosen our path and commited to it. We have to make it work. We can't fall back to an old and unsuccessful formula. It's make it or who knows how long in oblivion.
Fly, I'm not sure what you expected Bolton to do last night? In the third term Ryder murdered Phillips - the likes of Polec were already running forwards before the tap in expectation of winning, consequently the ball went forward at light speed and the defenders were cactus. So of course they all set up in a defensive manner leaving no forward structure forward of the centre - the few times we got the pill through the wall they had to stop and wait for the somebody to run forward to actually create an option, so there was little point in moving the ball quick. Even Casboult spent much of the game closer to centre wing than the square, heck he even had to have a running shot because the F50 had nobody in it most of the time.
Amos has done a good job in defence but developing a forward line is Bolton's next big task - giving us something to kick to that gives us a chance of winning games. Other than MacKay I'm not sure if these blokes are even on the list yet.
Yes, as will SOS, Wright and Weiters who also had zero.
It's harder for forwards to lay tackles unless they are really quick.
Paul we have chosen our path and commited to it. We have to make it work. We can't fall back to an old and unsuccessful formula. It's make it or who knows how long in oblivion.
At the time MM was sacked, Rob Walls stated that it would be 3 to 4 years minimum before we could even think about finals. We certainly won't get there this year, and I don't think we'll get there in 2018 either. 2019, 2020 is a best case scenario.
At the time MM was sacked, Rob Walls stated that it would be 3 to 4 years minimum before we could even think about finals. We certainly won't get there this year, and I don't think we'll get there in 2018 either. 2019, 2020 is a best case scenario.
A fair assessment.
Look, i can understand the impatience as we haven't had any real success in 15 years, but we are starting again.
I must admit i am a sore loser and as impatient as the next bloke but we need to give these guys time to develop.
Losing Kreuzer and Daisy really hurt.
MK is a bull in form that really adds that extra grunt mid to give Cripps, Murph and Gibbs a chop out.
Daisy even though he is grossly overpaid (not his fault), cant kick over a jam tin anymore, and lacks a yard of pace is still an experienced senior player who directs traffic and is only viewed by all us experts as a list clogger. His role in the team is important for the young blokes IMO. I hope they are both back in next week.
Polson, SPS, Pickett and Fisher all have elite speed and skill sets and will complement the bull Cripps in years to come.
Williamson is a jet. Could be anything but i think he will be another big quick mid once he builds his tank.
C. Curnow had 19 touches and 8 marks. Impressed with his game (his 10th) just in case anyone forgot.
Marchbank, Plowman and Macreadie and Docherty form the nucleus of a superior backline for 10+ years.
Matty Wright. Will probably play another 5 years with us but i'd love to see him back to his old role of high half forward. Played on a wing because Daisy was out.
My god if Weitering got some decent F50 entries he would be clunking a few but our mids are moving it too damn slow allowing defensive structures to be set up in our F50. If he was getting some decent delivery he could kick 40 goals plus. But it takes time.
We need to be patient as much as it hurts watching us get pantsed, we really need this new young brigade to play 50 games together as a unit. Then things will start to happen.
This is our first true re-build in how long?? This is a new Carlton and we are going to experience many ups and downs.
Buckle up your seat belts and enjoy the ride people.
Agree with all points. Best balanced post I've read in a long time.
We all want the rebuild but part of it is these sorts of performances - we all have to accept the pain in doing it properly.
My only 'small' concern is whether theres a point when playing too many kids actually slows their development. Still I shall trust the club - hopefully playing the amount of kids we have this year is the best long term plan.
Anyone going to have a crack at the pathetic coaching performance last night?
Ignore the rebuild for the moment, the speed of ball movement (and I admittedly tuned out during Q3) was glacial.....
Apparently, it's not rocket science.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-21/sideway-tigers-direct-ball-movement-a-key-to-start-caracella
I want to know why our opposition manage to get separation on our blokes so easily? We get murdered on the spread btw the 50's and oppo fowards often mark hands out on a lead.
In contrast, our ability to spread is terrible and our fwd are always being asked to pack mark and crumb.
Our set up and running patterns need alot of work.
THIS, THIS, THIS ^^^^^^^
They are ball watches. Need to take a seat out there with them to take the weight off their legs.
Agree with all points. Best balanced post I've read in a long time.
We all want the rebuild but part of it is these sorts of performances - we all have to accept the pain in doing it properly.
My only 'small' concern is whether theres a point when playing too many kids actually slows their development. Still I shall trust the club - hopefully playing the amount of kids we have this year is the best long term plan.
Agreed & agreed. We need to be patient.
My concern? By the time we hit our straps in 2-3 years Murphy, Gibbs & Kruz will be in the twilight of their careers and won't be able to ride the wave with us. Gibbs will be gone anyway. Lets trade him away for something at the end of the season - but not be too greedy like we were last season.
We need to start building a succession plan.
Gibbs had a poor game, but I think he's been playing well until that game. As someone else said, he dislocated/broke his thumb early on. I don't think we should trade him out on that game. He is still one of our most skillful players.
Last night was just terrible. Port were always going to belt us no matter what, they had something to prove after losing games to us in the past few years that they had to win - there's no way they were not smashing us last night.
No point going over anything about the young guys, they looked like children out there playing against grown men - which they are! We have some real talent in there though, and with plenty of hard work we will come good. I have faith!
p.s. I reckon Murphy has had so much shoulder surgery (e.g. rotator cuff) and associated issues that he can barely lift his arm above the perpendicular, like myself. Makes tackling weak. I don't think its a will issue but a physical limitation.
Didn't he lay 8 or 9 tackles v The drug cheats?
And so it begins, so predictable.
Not even 1hr after the final siren we are front page in The Hun!
Fans slam AFL’s decision to fixture Carlton on Friday night after blowout against Port Adelaide
Herald Sun 22 minutes ago
THE AFL’s fixturing for Friday night matches is back on the agenda after a blowout at Adelaide Oval that saw Port Adelaide thump Carlton.
The Blues were a major disappointment as they fielded a young team that was no match for the Power, with the game effectively over five minutes into the third term.
Carlton was blown away in that quarter, failing to register a possession inside 50 from just two entries, while Port Adelaide had 16 scoring shots to blow the lead out to 79 points at the final break.
With two NRL matches and the start of the A-League finals to compete with, some footy fans took to social media to declare they’d switched off the AFL in favour of a more competitive and thus entertaining match.
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Matt @Mattys123
Two NRL thrillers and the A League first final goes to extra time. Yep. If you are still watching the AFL tonight, you're doing it wrong
9:52 PM - 21 Apr 2017
Retweets 5 5 likes
This year the AFL has tried to fixture the better performing teams of recent seasons in the marquee slot after the league was criticised for scheduling big but underperforming clubs on Friday nights, which resulted in a poor spectacle.
The good news is fans won’t see Carlton on a Friday night again this year.
Reigning premiers Western Bulldogs have eight Friday night matches this year but winless Sydney also has eight games in the marquee slot.
Next week Friday night footy should produce a better contest between the Bulldogs and flag favourites the Giants, who will play their first ever Friday night game.
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Aubrey Hamlett ???? @aubreyhamlett
What a woeful match of Friday night footy #AFLpowerblues
9:33 PM - 21 Apr 2017 · Melbourne, Victoria
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Mark Riley @MiSeRay
Worse game of Football I have watched all year. Definitely not worthy of a Friday Night game #AFLPowerBlues
9:33 PM - 21 Apr 2017
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Damian Glass @DGlass_official
Can we not fixture Carlton on Friday night footy for at least the next three years? Ruined another night. #AFLPowerBlues
9:32 PM - 21 Apr 2017
9 9 Retweets 29 29 likes
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Matt Bryant @MattBryant15
I hope the next time I see Carlton on Friday night, Channel 7 will be advertising the 2020 Olympics is only weeks away. #AFLPowerBlues
10:16 PM - 21 Apr 2017
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1h
Channel 7 ✔ @Channel7
Can the Blues come from behind? LIVE on 7 and 7mate now... https://twitter.com/7afl/status/855377375822921728 …
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Ray Cameron @bombersfan63
@Channel7 Friday night footy tonight is a flop ???? Sadly.#aflpowerblues
10:15 PM - 21 Apr 2017
1 1 Retweet likes
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Anthony Kernich @AntJKernich
why did the AFL let a train wreck into Friday Night #aflpowerblues #afl
10:10 PM - 21 Apr 2017
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Nothing like trying to kick us when we are down. I wouldn't worry about this bunch of zeroes. They are truly irrelevant. They can follow themselves until the end of the Universe and nothing of interest or import will come from them.
That said, we need to be more competitive each week. For the first time this season we were not. It just happened to be on a Friday night.
The stats are flawed. Docherty, Simpson, Gibbs and Murphy were all well beaten today.
And yet they were still among our better players. That just about says everything in itself.
Even Cripps, who had serious leather poisoning, could not be said to have beaten his man. For at least some of the time he was on Ollie Wines, who was excellent for Port.
About the only guy who could say he won his spot would be Casboult and for half the game we couldn't get it near him.
I think the only thing we can do is put this one down to experience and plan for next week. Our players will not be that ordinary again. And hopefully we'll have Kreuzer back.
Apparently, it's not rocket science.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-21/sideway-tigers-direct-ball-movement-a-key-to-start-caracella
it was pure madness the persistent do nothing/sideways kicking that simply allowed every port player to flood back and then we panicked and coughed it up.....
Bolton can go on about green shoots and not getting too low etc, but when you haven't played in a state for a few years and put up a showing like that you will lose juniors in SA.
Rusted on supporters will keep going because it is ingrained but for young-uns you tend to follow the better teams. (see Hawthorn Band wagon)
Very poor showing by the club for SA supporters.
it was pure madness the persistent do nothing/sideways kicking that simply allowed every port player to flood back and then we panicked and coughed it up.....
At least in the Ratten days we had some enjoyment of kicking goals. It was fun to watch. We just couldn't stop them kicking them the other way :o
With a team of toddlers the result was always going to be a loss. 90 points is pretty disappointing but primarily a result of the third quarter lapse.
The most frustrating aspect was the poor goal kicking. We got the ball inside enough times to make the game closer in the first half but wasted opportunities ities. Murphy's miss, along with other muffed kicks made the task harder.
Good to see c. Curnow play his best game. He got to enough contests and showed he can drag down contested marks. Keep it up. Cripps played very well but struggled to get free, and fisher got a bit of the ball later on and didn't waste it too much. Great game from rowe who kept dixon quiet when the ball was flying in fast.
Potting gibbs has become a past time for many. I thought he played well, and got his hands dirty after hurting his thumb. Easy for us to be critical from the cheap seats. He has limitations but remains one of our best.
Good to see casboult kick a few and get more involved in the second half. I thouht he cost us the first 2 PA goals by being tentative and not breaking a pack and the ball got run out easily. For a bloke his size he should be able to hurt opponents more. Perhaps it is his character, but we could really use a big bruiser up forward that puts a knee into the defenders. Rocca needs to feed him angry pills.
As a couple of others have pointed out, we missed Kruezer and his follow up work in the middle and missed thomas who has played a role to organise many of the younger players. We are playing to a clearer structure this year, but it is one that breaks down without good leadership and discipline.
Docherty is struggling this year, the result of being attended to by the opposition. With simpson likely to retire at the end of the year we will be looking for an established half back methinks in the trade period.
All in all we got another game into very young players. By mid season we will be playing schmedts and palmer and co so as to stop the bleeding and the teenagers get tired. There is clearly a longer game being played and it is working.
Look, i can understand the impatience as we haven't had any real success in 15 years, but we are starting again.
I must admit i am a sore loser and as impatient as the next bloke but we need to give these guys time to develop.
Losing Kreuzer and Daisy really hurt.
MK is a bull in form that really adds that extra grunt mid to give Cripps, Murph and Gibbs a chop out.
Daisy even though he is grossly overpaid (not his fault), cant kick over a jam tin anymore, and lacks a yard of pace is still an experienced senior player who directs traffic and is only viewed by all us experts as a list clogger. His role in the team is important for the young blokes IMO. I hope they are both back in next week.
Polson, SPS, Pickett and Fisher all have elite speed and skill sets and will complement the bull Cripps in years to come.
Williamson is a jet. Could be anything but i think he will be another big quick mid once he builds his tank.
C. Curnow had 19 touches and 8 marks. Impressed with his game (his 10th) just in case anyone forgot.
Marchbank, Plowman and Macreadie and Docherty form the nucleus of a superior backline for 10+ years.
Matty Wright. Will probably play another 5 years with us but i'd love to see him back to his old role of high half forward. Played on a wing because Daisy was out.
My god if Weitering got some decent F50 entries he would be clunking a few but our mids are moving it too damn slow allowing defensive structures to be set up in our F50. If he was getting some decent delivery he could kick 40 goals plus. But it takes time.
We need to be patient as much as it hurts watching us get pantsed, we really need this new young brigade to play 50 games together as a unit. Then things will start to happen.
This is our first true re-build in how long?? This is a new Carlton and we are going to experience many ups and downs.
Buckle up your seat belts and enjoy the ride people.
Spot on. Well said.
Only human nature as we watched last night to feel bitterly disappointed. As BA pointed out so well, we're at the very beginning of climbing a big mountain (after years of terrible neglect/short-sightedness) and last night we stumbled badly. I like how BB stood firm on our direction and took the failure of last night in his stride - could be a steep learning curve for him too!! I just hope the Adelaide bloke is the right mentor (mate of the CEO concerns me), personally I'd rather someone as his mentor who is/was a CFC person and carries/carried our culture/success in their blood. A Parko type... another excellent teacher. Or even a Matthews or Roos.
I noticed that Andy McKay was in the box last night (as he was last game) with headphones on and obviously communicating with the bench. Are we a coach down at the moment or is Macca there to free up one of the coaches to do something more productive?
I noticed that Andy McKay was in the box last night (as he was last game) with headphones on and obviously communicating with the bench. Are we a coach down at the moment or is Macca there to free up one of the coaches to do something more productive?
I was surprised to see him in there as well, right next to Bolts. Is it common for a director of football to do this ? Maybe he's checking out Bolton's match day coaching nous.
We've had three six day turnarounds in a row. We haven't recovered from the drug cheat game so while it was ugly it was predictable.
The kids have never played in a coliseum like atmosphere like last night and the way the theme song was sung with the flag waving at the start of the game was very intimidating. We haven't played there since '14 and I hope we never play there again. :)
We'll learn from it.
Anyone notice Cripps being very vocal in the 1/4 time huddle.
The commenters mentioned it as well.
Haven't seen that side of him too often but I liked it.
Didn't he lay 8 or 9 tackles v The drug cheats?
Prior to this game his tackle numbers were 7, 4, 10, 7 so I don't know what happened last night.
To summarise so far... people like the idea of a rebuild, but the practical side of it... the bit where you actually have to play kids and cop some poor results... that bit we don't like so much?
Spot on. Well said.
Only human nature as we watched last night to feel bitterly disappointed. As BA pointed out so well, we're at the very beginning of climbing a big mountain (after years of terrible neglect/short-sightedness) and last night we stumbled badly. I like how BB stood firm on our direction and took the failure of last night in his stride - could be a steep learning curve for him too!! I just hope the Adelaide bloke is the right mentor (mate of the CEO concerns me), personally I'd rather someone as his mentor who is/was a CFC person and carries/carried our culture/success in their blood. A Parko type... another excellent teacher. Or even a Matthews or Roos.
Juddy's back for next year as Director of Football.
Charlie Curnow showed a bit - his best showing so far
Pickett was disappointing with his attack on the footy at times...picked and chose a few contests and needs to do better... has great speed but picks and chooses when to use that as well
Docherty had a shocker - only seemed useful when he went into the midfield late in the game - ineffective when kicking in after a behind - not a patch on 2E had to offer
Simpson looks like he is winding down....GC and Port both make him look a bit slow (more than a bit unfortunately), the courage is still there but I thought he struggled to keep up with the younger players.
Prior to this game his tackle numbers were 7, 4, 10, 7 so I don't know what happened last night.
Injured again ?
Ed was very ordinary...not sure what he brings these days, slow, hacker disposal, must be in the gun.
Has not been effective this season - except when an opponent takes him to the ball
I was surprised to see him in there as well, right next to Bolts. Is it common for a director of football to do this ? Maybe he's checking out Bolton's match day coaching nous.
He was definitely filling a role, as he did last game. I'm not sure who usually sits there with the headphones ... Craig?
And so it begins, so predictable.
Not even 1hr after the final siren we are front page in The Hun!
Fans slam AFL’s decision to fixture Carlton on Friday night after blowout against Port Adelaide
Herald Sun 22 minutes ago
THE AFL’s fixturing for Friday night matches is back on the agenda after a blowout at Adelaide Oval that saw Port Adelaide thump Carlton.
I would be happy if we were permanently excluded from Friday nights - at least until McAvaney retires or loses his voice - he never shuts up.
Has not been effective this season - except when an opponent takes him to the ball
Yep = Ed is struggling big time and its really hurting us.
Still remember the pics of his rig preseason and how everyone was saying he looks primed........
The player that concerns me most is Docherty; after a reasonable game last week, he really struggled tonight. Perhaps not having the luxury of playing as a loose man has brought him back to the field.
He looks very fallible now that he hasn't got Tuohy backing him up in the defensive rotation.
He was definitely filling a role, as he did last game. I'm not sure who usually sits there with the headphones ... Craig?
Hmm - I wonder if doubts are starting to creep in higher up the chain, and he's been sent in there to see what's going on. As I said earlier, I cant figure out how much or how little power he has.
The Judge is good friends with SOS - SOS and McKay are ex team mates. Jack Silvagni is now on the list, with Ben to come (maybe). Craig and Trigg are ex Crows. If I were Bolts, I'd be starting to feel a little hemmed in and isolated. But I'm a touch paranoid at the moment.
I thought we missed Daisy a bit too tonight. Too true ;)
Wright played up the field in his absence which wasn't as effective and robbed our forwardline of a good goal sneak. Not very effective at all.
Read the first page and it's shake your head stuff. For years we as a Carlton collective have been crying out for change, we must embrace the draft, build from the bottom, NO MORE quick fixes. The club has done that and when things get a little hard we start to sook it up.
It's hard to be competitive when you have a team of babies going up against a team in their prime. The third quarter showed that, what we saw from Port is where we'll be in 3-4 years time. For now we have to do the hard yards watching a team that is just too young and inexperienced to be in a winning position.
I saw Kruddler put up a comparison of coaches and their wining percentages, sorry Krudd but that is not relevant. This is the FIRST TIME Carlton has truly embraced the draft, so you cannot compare any former Carlton coach with Bolton as they are on different paths.
I'm not really concerned about what Murphy, Gibbs and Simmo do, I'm only looking at our players 23 and under.
Jack Silvagni - A workman like game yet again, does the tough stuff, gets to the right places and plays a true team game. A few unrewarded chases and some dropped marks that need to be tidied up on, but a step forward.
Weitering - Needs to be given a block of games down back, he's just not getting the ball and for a man with his talent he can set up more plays from CHB. When he went back in the third we looked a bit surer around the ball.
Charlie Curnow - Best game so far, I doubt we can have both CC and Jack in the one forward line, just like going out drinking, keep to one or the other or you'll have a bad time. Great marks and used the ball the best he has so far.
Macreadie - Never afraid, decent kick and in constant motion. Is being played on smaller guys so he doesn't get smashed by the bigger frames but we have picked up a steam here. Thanks GWS for not matching our bid. I wouldn't mind using him down forward for a game or two while bringing Weitering down back to see what he could do up front.
Samo - Needs to learn to move the ball quicker. Has shown great evasion skills but players are aware he will try to step them now, so a quick give will allow him to use his evasion on occasion with more effect.
Fisher - Love this kid. He is a terrier who gets knocked down and gets up straight away and goes again. Always looks for the right option and has the skills to back it up.
Williamson - 2nd gamer my ass! Looks in control, has a beautiful kicking style and works hard and smart. With the other talls down there hasn't had to do much in the air so I don't know how good he is there, but is a ready made replacement for Simmo at years end.
Poulson - Like his attitude, loved his run down tackle and one other thing stood out to me. He was on a wing near the boundary, got the ball and gave it off to Murph, then it was instinctual, he looked at Murphs trailing player and laid a shepherd. For so long our players have not protected the ball carrier like other teams do, in Cams first game he did it. Good debut, now back it up and get better.
Plowman - Starting to become Mr Reliable down back, reading the play so much better than last season and his disposal is coming up to where his junior bio read. Reminds me a bit of Peter Dean in the way he'll sacrifice his body to spoil.
Marchbank - Great instincts and love his attitude, but I think his mind is ahead of his skills. Time to use the K.I.S.S. method when getting rid of the ball. Is going to be a stud down back in the coming years.
Pickett - Loved his take off on the wing, then he ran too far but he wanted to run which opened the play up and I think gave us a one on one to advantage in forward 50 which didn't happen very often. It bugs me sometimes to see him jog behind play, be he hasn't had a full pre season yet, being injured when he came to the club and a bit chubby.
Right there is half the team who are all babies in bodies, experience and age. They are are future foundation to build around and they will get smashed, but each time they do it's an investment in the future of the club. We will go again to the draft this season having early picks, maybe Kruezer goes via FA and Gibbs via trade getting us a few extra picks inside 30.
It doesn't matter this year where we finish, what matters is getting games of experience into these players and hopefully they learn and get better quickly.
would be good in a top line side but useless for us. For someone on his coin and with his experience, I expect a lot more when the chips are down.
About Gibbs - I think he would be better than good in a top team but I would be happy for him to be traded for a suitable deal - has rarely impressed me as an elite player - had one particularly good season when the coaches (during Ratten's tenure I believe) managed to get him to work harder, rather than relying on his talent.
Prior to this game his tackle numbers were 7, 4, 10, 7 so I don't know what happened last night.
He couldn't catch (or even get within spitting distance of) an opponent - acceleration was way down on his usual standard - I suspect he is carrying an undisclosed injury
We are faced with the problem of having to blood young players into an environment where our existing senior group has not been successful for a number of years and there are good reasons for that, one oft touted on this forum is that they didn't run both ways. So now they have to maybe work a bit harder to assist in developing those youngsters. I don't like having to play so many youngsters but that imo is the result of years of poor list management. We have to try and move forward and playing the non strategic players is not the answer. GWS had to do it albeit with draft advantages but they did it. And btw, I have no real beef with Rowe or Simpson.
The place to develop youngsters is in the VFL under the guidance of the development coaches. There is no AFL level acceleration, that is bullsh1t spread by media bullsh1t artists!
If kids are not ready for AFL you stall their progress by playing them too early, they become timid and start to question their own ability. They start to think they don't belong at AFL level and opposition clubs will everything they can to enforce that mindset. You can easily break them!
All these young #1 kids ? We had 2. Krooz was drafted after Pagan was sacked.
...and we had Walker at #2.
Point remains, we've had 'rebuilds' of sort before, we've had some young emerging talent that everyone gets excited about......AND one of the best forwards in the game.
This time around, our kids seem to be more abundant, but we have less top end senior talent who will be there in the long term.
Is it possible that these kids we are relying upon might not make the jump to the next level as soon as we'd hoped (if at all)?
Time for a rethink?
...and we had Walker at #2.
Point remains, we've had 'rebuilds' of sort before, we've had some young emerging talent that everyone gets excited about......AND one of the best forwards in the game.
This time around, our kids seem to be more abundant, but we have less top end senior talent who will be there in the long term.
Is it possible that these kids we are relying upon might not make the jump to the next level as soon as we'd hoped (if at all)?
Time for a rethink?
Totally possible.
We're trying something different but if it doesn't come off (and there are no guarantees) it will be back to the drawing board.
I noticed that Andy McKay was in the box last night (as he was last game) with headphones on and obviously communicating with the bench. Are we a coach down at the moment or is Macca there to free up one of the coaches to do something more productive?
Too many babies to sit is the most likely answer!
I was surprised to see him in there as well, right next to Bolts. Is it common for a director of football to do this ? Maybe he's checking out Bolton's match day coaching nous.
More likely that Bolton has asked him to. Getting senior staff to the coal face is straightforward modern management practice to change perspectives. It aligns decision makers in their thinking.
These are good signs of a club that is taking a modern approach to management. Trigg has kicked alot of doors down so far.
I'm not really concerned about what Murphy, Gibbs and Simmo do, I'm only looking at our players 23 and under.
Jack Silvagni - A workman like game yet again, does the tough stuff, gets to the right places and plays a true team game. A few unrewarded chases and some dropped marks that need to be tidied up on, but a step forward. Talented player but lacks acceleration.
Weitering - Needs to be given a block of games down back, he's just not getting the ball and for a man with his talent he can set up more plays from CHB. When he went back in the third we looked a bit surer around the ball. Has outstanding ability to read the play and judge the ball in the air but accurately describes himself as slow and is not likely to get any faster unless someone does something about his running action.
Charlie Curnow - Best game so far, I doubt we can have both CC and Jack in the one forward line, just like going out drinking, keep to one or the other or you'll have a bad time. Great marks and used the ball the best he has so far. Yesterday's game whets the appetite for what might come.
Macreadie - Never afraid, decent kick and in constant motion. Is being played on smaller guys so he doesn't get smashed by the bigger frames but we have picked up a steam here. Thanks GWS for not matching our bid. I wouldn't mind using him down forward for a game or two while bringing Weitering down back to see what he could do up front. very promising
Samo - Needs to learn to move the ball quicker. Has shown great evasion skills but players are aware he will try to step them now, so a quick give will allow him to use his evasion on occasion with more effect. very promising
Fisher - Love this kid. He is a terrier who gets knocked down and gets up straight away and goes again. Always looks for the right option and has the skills to back it up. very promising
Williamson - 2nd gamer my ass! Looks in control, has a beautiful kicking style and works hard and smart. With the other talls down there hasn't had to do much in the air so I don't know how good he is there, but is a ready made replacement for Simmo at years end. very promising
Poulson - Like his attitude, loved his run down tackle and one other thing stood out to me. He was on a wing near the boundary, got the ball and gave it off to Murph, then it was instinctual, he looked at Murphs trailing player and laid a shepherd. For so long our players have not protected the ball carrier like other teams do, in Cams first game he did it. Good debut, now back it up and get better. very promising
Plowman - Starting to become Mr Reliable down back, reading the play so much better than last season and his disposal is coming up to where his junior bio read. Reminds me a bit of Peter Dean in the way he'll sacrifice his body to spoil. very impressive
Marchbank - Great instincts and love his attitude, but I think his mind is ahead of his skills. Time to use the K.I.S.S. method when getting rid of the ball. Is going to be a stud down back in the coming years. very impressive
Pickett - Loved his take off on the wing, then he ran too far but he wanted to run which opened the play up and I think gave us a one on one to advantage in forward 50 which didn't happen very often. It bugs me sometimes to see him jog behind play, be he hasn't had a full pre season yet, being injured when he came to the club and a bit chubby. has talent but needs to be less choosy about when he inserts himself into the action - hopefully the problem is a lack of fitness rather than a lack of intent
It doesn't matter this year where we finish (it's not like we have much choice), what matters is getting games of experience into these players and hopefully they learn and get better quickly.
...and we had Walker at #2.
Point remains, we've had 'rebuilds' of sort before, we've had some young emerging talent that everyone gets excited about......AND one of the best forwards in the game.
This time around, our kids seem to be more abundant, but we have less top end senior talent who will be there in the long term.
Is it possible that these kids we are relying upon might not make the jump to the next level as soon as we'd hoped (if at all)?
Time for a rethink?
Trade Cripps, Weiters and get multiple 1st Rnd draft picks for use in trade or drafting, I'm talking we want 4 or 5 picks under 10 that give us Plowman, Marchbank, Williamson quality players or better. Much more list depth, dramatically more list depth is required.
It will be 3 or 4 years before Cripps and Weiters hit their peak, and they have to stay fit, focussed, and contracted to get to that point which by the week looks increasingly unlikely. If we break them over the next few years their value plummets and our resource is lost. At the moment it looks unlikely we'll be able to hang onto the kids like Cripps or Weiters anyway! I know a relative of Weiters has already put out the feelers, as disappointing as it is and regardless of what Weiters thinks, others connected to him are already thinking along those lines! For a team on the verge of the top 4 these guys are worth multiple draft picks! ;)
Keep the likes of Murphy, Gibbs, Rowe, etc, etc, let them play out their careers while we build a strong next generation at VFL level. Pour effort and money into player development at the lower level, the NB thing isn't really working for us, it's just a low cost solution.
More likely that Bolton has asked him to. Getting senior staff to the coal face is straightforward modern management practice to change perspectives. It aligns decision makers in their thinking.
These are good signs of a club that is taking a modern approach to management. Trigg has kicked alot of doors down so far.
I wasn't aware of this modern practice - I don't work in the corporate world.
Thanks for posting. Certainly much better than my paranoid mental wanderings.
Trade Cripps, Weiters and get multiple 1st Rnd draft picks for use in trade or drafting, I'm talking we want 4 or 5 picks under 10 that give us Plowman, Marchbank, Williamson quality players or better. Much more list depth, dramatically more list depth is required.
It will be 3 or 4 years before Cripps and Weiters hit their peak, and they have to stay fit, focused, and contracted to get to that point which by the week looks increasingly unlikely. If we break them over the next few years their value plummets and our resource is lost. At the moment it looks unlikely we'll be able to hang onto the kids like Cripps or Weiters anyway! For a team on the verge of the top 4 these guys are worth multiple draft picks! ;)
I doubt you will get much support for this apparent heresy but I would keep an open mind because both have limitations in speed. I know that players with great talents (like Cripps and Weitering) can be dominant players without having speed (e.g. Greg Williams) but that was more than a couple of decades ago and the game has since become progressively faster and more reliant on both-way running capacity.
Additionally, both players are showing signs of frequently playing injured. This is a massive plus in relation to their intentional fortitude and commitment but, on the flip side, questions needs to be asked about whether they are physical susceptibility to injuries. Are they being injured because they have underlying weaknesses that are likely to be ongoing (possibly contributing to a shorter career) or are they getting injuries due to the combative way they play or are being required to play?
Honest assessments and discussions about their physical soundness and their long-term commitments to the club would need to be taken into consideration when considering such contentious actions.
I doubt you will get much support for this apparent heresy but I would keep an open mind because both have limitations in speed. I know that players with great talents (like Cripps and Weitering) can be dominant players without having speed (e.g. Greg Williams) but that was more than a couple of decades ago and the game has since become progressively faster and more reliant on both-way running capacity.
Additionally, both players are showing signs of frequently playing injured. This is a massive plus in relation to their intentional fortitude and commitment but, on the flip side, questions needs to be asked about whether they are physical susceptibility to injuries. Are they being injured because they have underlying weaknesses that are likely to be ongoing (possibly contributing to a shorter career) or are they getting injuries due to the combative way they play or are being required to play?
Honest assessments and discussions about their physical soundness and their long-term commitments to the club would need to be taken into consideration when considering such contentious actions.
Your logic is sound and the questions you pose valid.
Add young SoJ to that lack of leg speed list and we have a significant problem, and at the moment at least it seems Curnow Jnr is also lacking in straight line speed. Just like we have too many kids, we have far too many players who cannot cover enough ground which does result in heavier traffic, slow play and a more combative game styles when we have the ball. When we don't have the ball we have an even bigger problem, there is no getting it back!
The likes of SPS and Pickett are not the answer, they are almost insignificant when we have to deal with players who do cover the ground like Trengove, Wines, Westhoff, Ryder, etc., etc..
While I do not expect blokes like Kreuzer, Casboult and Phillips to be race horses, having just one or two big blokes who have some decent closing speed would make a huge difference to our team on game day. McKay certainly looks quicker across the ground, Jones is quick enough when he decides to go, and Jaksch is also quick but in very straight lines and single efforts.
Honest assessments and discussions about their physical soundness and their long-term commitments to the club would need to be taken into consideration when considering such contentious actions.
I would hope that the club will be doing a thorough review of what transpires during this season and clearly identifying what has worked and what hasn't, leading to any plan adjustments that may be necessary. I too have an open mind as to possibilities but relying on existing players like Murphy, Gibbs, Simmo, Daisy and others for instance to be around or staying fit for any length of time may be a problem.
I would hope that the club will be doing a thorough review of what transpires during this season and clearly identifying what has worked and what hasn't, leading to any plan adjustments that may be necessary. I too have an open mind as to possibilities but relying on existing players like Murphy, Gibbs, Simmo, Daisy and others for instance to be around or staying fit for any length of time may be a problem.
If the club has taken a long term view, why is it playing guys like Cripps injured and wearing abdominal guards?
it was pure madness the persistent do nothing/sideways kicking that simply allowed every port player to flood back and then we panicked and coughed it up.....
Said it before that Bolton is a great educator and perfect for rebuilding with kids but tactics wise is untested and is learning that part of the coaching caper as he goes so he is going to get it wrong at times. The Weitering experiment down forward is one thats needs reviewing IMO....I'd rather see Jones or Jaksch doing some heavy lifting down forward and freeing up Casboult and Silvagni, Weitering needs to be back at CHB IMO where his lack of pace is less of a problem...the bloke who should be tried a bit more down the ground is Marchbank who likes flying for a mark and is more of a ball winner IMO. Like to see a bit more imagination rather than Weitering and Rowe just swapping ends...
If the club has taken a long term view, why is it playing guys like Cripps injured and wearing abdominal guards?
Don't you think it has taken a long term view?
If the club has taken a long term view, why is it playing guys like Cripps injured and wearing abdominal guards?
Exactly my point earlier in the thread. There is no excuse for playing an injured kid. Totally unnecessary...and don't give me that 'character building' crap.
Don't you think it has taken a long term view?
I think the clubs behaviour isn't matching it's talk.
Perhaps our financial situation is far worse than we realise!
Perhaps Bolton's tenure isn't anywhere near as secure as we are lead to believe!
The person who needs to put all this to bed is LoGuidice, he's conspicuous by his absence!
Do you think playing kids injured will accelerate their development while delivering some other long term benefit?
Going back to 2005 Port beat Hawthorn by 117pts on a Friday night. The Hawks side contained the likes of Lewis, Mitchell, Roughead, Hodge, Franklin, Sewell, Crawford, Bateman, Osborne, Ladson, Croad, Williams all of who went on to play in the 2008 premiership side a few years later.
I think the clubs behaviour isn't matching it's message, perhaps our financial situation is far worse than we realise!
Do you think playing kids injured will accelerate their development while delivering some other long term benefit?
Well I don't think we should play injured players period. I already posted that Cripps should be rested.
Prior to this game his tackle numbers were 7, 4, 10, 7 so I don't know what happened last night.
Ive said this before, cant tackle what you cant catch. He looked off physically, dont know if he got a knock early or what but he looked farked trying to chase. Got caught a few times also.
Exactly my point earlier in the thread. There is no excuse for playing an injured kid. Totally unnecessary...and don't give me that 'character building' crap.
He had 37 touches last night. He might not be in perfect shape but can't be too bad. The absence of a decent ruckman and a shallow midfield isn't helping but how does it help Cripps to rest him in round 5 because he is a bit sore? He too is young and we are getting games into him.
Going back to 2005 Port beat Hawthorn by 117pts on a Friday night. The Hawks side contained the likes of Lewis, Mitchell, Roughead, Hodge, Franklin, Sewell, Crawford, Bateman, Osborne, Ladson, Croad, Williams all of who went on to play in the 2008 premiership side a few years later.
At that time Hawthorn was benefiting heavily from financial and draft assistance from the AFL, we get not such assistance.
He had 37 touches last night. He might not be in perfect shape but can't be too bad. The absence of a decent ruckman and a shallow midfield isn't helping but how does it help Cripps to rest him in round 5 because he is a bit sore? He too is young and we are getting games into him.
How good would Cripps be if healthy, what affect would that have on players around him?
Even on the commentary, that I hate, last night they made repeat comments about Cripps being down on his previous best, and we played him injured for what reason?
At that time Hawthorn was benefiting heavily from financial and draft assistance from the AFL, we get not such assistance.
And still were beaten by 117pts!
I think the clubs behaviour isn't matching it's talk.
Perhaps our financial situation is far worse than we realise!
Perhaps Bolton's tenure isn't anywhere near as secure as we are lead to believe!
The person who needs to put all this to bed is LoGuidice, he's conspicuous by his absence!
Do you think playing kids injured will accelerate their development while delivering some other long term benefit?
BB was on SEN earlier, they asked him flat our if he feels he has the backing the CEO, Prez, Board etc. He was asked if anyone called him to which he replied "I wouldnt normally say this but I will, I got 3 phone calls this morning, one from Mark LoGiudice, one from Steven Trigg and one from Stephen Silvagni". He suggested they are all in this together and reassured everyone they have a plan and they will not deviate.
I think as Raydan suggested (great post by the way), we have to accept we cant have the baby without the labour pains.
BB was on SEN earlier, they asked him flat our if he feels he has the backing the CEO, Prez, Board etc. He was asked if anyone called him to which he replied "I wouldnt normally say this but I will, I got 3 phone calls this morning, one from Mark LoGiudice, one from Steven Trigg and one from Stephen Silvagni". He suggested they are all in this together and reassured everyone they have a plan and they will not deviate.
I think as Raydan suggested (great post by the way), we have to accept we cant have the baby without the labour pains.
Good to hear GTC that we have strong faith in our plan and the determination to see it through for once without looking for a short cut.
BB was on SEN earlier, they asked him flat our if he feels he has the backing the CEO, Prez, Board etc. He was asked if anyone called him to which he replied "I wouldnt normally say this but I will, I got 3 phone calls this morning, one from Mark LoGiudice, one from Steven Trigg and one from Stephen Silvagni". He suggested they are all in this together and reassured everyone they have a plan and they will not deviate.
I think as Raydan suggested (great post by the way), we have to accept we cant have the baby without the labour pains.
Their futures are virtually tied together.
Succeed and they will reap and deserve all the credit as a group.
Fail... and it will be a collective blame.
They've set the course and have to stay true to it.
I didn't see the game, perhaps fortunately!
But stats do tell some sort of a story. The worm says we were in it for about a half, but we had 3 separate periods where they really got on top of us, 1 for a whole qtr that cost us 6 goals!
It's games like this where I an not worried about the kids, they will always have their ups and downs in their early stages, it's the senior players I am looking at in games like this.
When a team goes missing for a whole qtr, that tells me there is a problem with our on field leadership. At no stage did/could no one rally the troups and put an end to the run on that Port had. That's a problem.
If I recall correctly, Bolts has come out and said that we want to be known for our effort, consistency and pressure. My question is where was any of that in the 3rd qtr? for the whole qtr ??
The HUN has a stat for pressure acts that I have not yet seen, but my next favorite stat, tackles, tells a telling story. 11 of our players (half our side) were only able to lay 7 tackles between them, 7.
And they weren't all kids either, Murphy our captain, Docherty in our leadeship group, Wright and White, both senior players are in that group.
Now Bolts, tell me what kind of effort and pressure did they give throughout the whole game?
Not good enough.
I didn't see the game, perhaps fortunately!
But stats do tell some sort of a story. The worm says we were in it for about a half, but we had 3 separate periods where they really got on top of us, 1 for a whole qtr that cost us 6 goals!
It's games like this where I an not worried about the kids, they will always have their ups and downs in their early stages, it's the senior players I am looking at in games like this.
When a team goes missing for a whole qtr, that tells me there is a problem with our on field leadership. At no stage did/could no one rally the troups and put an end to the run on that Port had. That's a problem.
If I recall correctly, Bolts has come out and said that we want to be known for our effort, consistency and pressure. My question is where was any of that in the 3rd qtr? for the whole qtr ??
The HUN has a stat for pressure acts that I have not yet seen, but my next favorite stat, tackles, tells a telling story. 11 of our players (half our side) were only able to lay 7 tackles between them, 7.
And they weren't all kids either, Murphy our captain, Docherty in our leadeship group, Wright and White, both senior players are in that group.
Now Bolts, tell me what kind of effort and pressure did they give throughout the whole game?
Not good enough.
Port laid 30 more tackles than us which was disappointing.
@ Amers
Mate, I think BB is becoming all too painfully aware of where the roots of our problems lie. End of year will be "interesting times" if things continue like this.
Going back to 2005 Port beat Hawthorn by 117pts on a Friday night. The Hawks side contained the likes of Lewis, Mitchell, Roughead, Hodge, Franklin, Sewell, Crawford, Bateman, Osborne, Ladson, Croad, Williams all of who went on to play in the 2008 premiership side a few years later.
Back in 2011 Carlton smashed Gold Coast by 119 points on a saturday night.
The gold coast side contained D. Swallow, Bennell, Day, Caddy, Prestia, Gorringe, Lynch, Tape (all top 13 players) along with Brownlow medalist Gary Ablett, premiership player Campbell Brown, All-Australian Nathan Bock....
A few years later, they are still crap. A few years after that, they are worse.
Back in 2011 Carlton smashed Gold Coast by 119 points on a saturday night.
The gold coast side contained D. Swallow, Bennell, Day, Caddy, Prestia, Gorringe, Lynch, Tape (all top 13 players) along with Brownlow medalist Gary Ablett, premiership player Campbell Brown, All-Australian Nathan Bock....
A few years later, they are still crap. A few years after that, they are worse.
I think you're smart enough to get my point.
Their futures are virtually tied together.
Succeed and they will reap and deserve all the credit as a group.
Fail... and it will be a collective blame.
They've set the course and have to stay true to it.
Bolton will take the fall before any of the others, of this I am certain. And not just because he's senior coach.
Bolton will take the fall before any of the others, of this I am certain. And not just because he's senior coach.
Unless some crazy, trigger happy billionaire doesn't like the way things are going and thinks he can do a better job of running the place ;) ;D
Unless some crazy, trigger happy billionaire doesn't like the way things are going and thinks he can do a better job of running the place ;) ;D
Ah yes - an all too familiar type around Princes Park. I believe this type has now been banished from the kingdom.
I think you're smart enough to get my point.
I hope you're smart enough to get mine.
You pointed out the exception, not the rule.
Ah yes - an all too familiar type around Princes Park. I believe this type has now been banished from the kingdom.
Just sleeping ;)
I hope you're smart enough to get mine.
You pointed out the exception, not the rule.
i'm not going to bogged the thread down in crap like you're prone to do at times. Just pointing out how things can change with a very young side within a few years. That Hawthorn side was an exception too in relation to class yet had to go through the same pain rebuilding. They finished 3rd last that year, 2pts ahead of us. Ended up a super side down the track. I'm sure St.Kilda went through crap early 2000s to and made 2 GFs, GWS had similar to what GC had and look at them. Maybe GC were the exception! Actually they weren't but the 2005 Hawks weren't an exception either, just exceptional. Goes both ways.
It was a terribly disappointing effort regardless of how many kids we played.
There was one small period of the game where we had 5 deliberate shots on goal for 5 points at a time when we were well behind but having the better of play, what small glimmer of hope there was was snuffed out then and there.
We have a losing mentality and I doubt that the players went into last night honestly expecting to win the game, that will be the hardest thing to turn around.
I seemed to remember that Phillips could play a bit but he didn't look remotely like a footballer last night, in fact his game was Hampsonesque in parts.
Armfield should have played, I've never rated him very highly but he's quick and tough and he would have been handy, he should get a game against Sydney.
Polson didn't look anywhere near ready for senior footy and Weitering looks less than enthusiastic, I'll be surprised if he's still at Carlton in three years from now.
The only bright spot is that Daisy is off the hook for a week at least, but it's a long, hard road ahead.
i'm not going to bogged the thread down in crap like you're prone to do at times. Just pointing out how things can change with a very young side within a few years. That Hawthorn side was an exception too in relation to class yet had to go through the same pain rebuilding. They finished 3rd last that year, 2pts ahead of us. Ended up a super side down the track. I'm sure St.Kilda went through crap early 2000s to and made 2 GFs, GWS had similar to what GC had and look at them. Maybe GC were the exception! Actually they weren't but the 2005 Hawks weren't an exception either, just exceptional. Goes both ways.
A mate told me Leigh Matthews was on radio this morning talking about how young their side was and the beltings they copped just prior to going on to win 3 premierships. I am told he stated he deliberately played kids to expose them and toughen them up. Old school? Perhaps. Did it work? my farken oath it did.
A mate told me Leigh Matthews was on radio this morning talking about how young their side was and the beltings they copped just prior to going on to win 3 premierships. I am told he stated he deliberately played kids to expose them and toughen them up. Old school? Perhaps. Did it work? my farken oath it did.
R8, 2001 - CFC 142, BL 68 - Bastards went on to win the flag. I was hoping it would be us.
R8, 2001 - CFC 142, BL 68 - Bastards went on to win the flag. I was hoping it would be us.
I remember that game like it was yesterday, was in the car driving in country Victoria listening to it on radio. They didnt lose a game after that flogging.
I remember that game like it was yesterday, was in the car driving in country Victoria listening to it on radio. They didnt lose a game after that flogging.
Me too.
It was my mates 21st. We died his hair Blue (he was a lions supporter).
FWIW, Lions did lose another game, 1, just, late in the season.
It was certainly the last flogging they received before their 3-peat though.
Some of the older players were shown up tonight for their real worth to the team, clearly they are on a limited tenure. I reckon Cripps is carrying an injury, he was grimacing a lot tonight. Gibbs wanted to just do his waving arms routine all night instead of getting his shorts dirty. Simon White annoyed me immensely due to his constant giving up the chase when we were under siege.
The young guys struggled but kept fighting it out even though they were badly outclassed.
Some supporters will be all bitter & twisted over a loss of this proportion but you have to expect the occasional blowout whilst the players grow & develop. Whilst it hurts to get smacked in that manner, its what you learn from the result that is of real importance IMO.
The green shoots weren't as obvious tonite but if they are hurting after that loss, then we will be okay in the future.
By the way, don't beat yourself up over this game, take a deep breath and keep thinking about how bright our future really is even though you may not be able to see it right now.
R8, 2001 - CFC 142, BL 68 - Bastards went on to win the flag. I was hoping it would be us.
Yep, I was at that game. I remember Akermanis saying how it was seared into their souls and how they channe!ed their hatred of us into a winning mindset.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/04/22/bolton-power-thrashing-a-great-lesson-for-our-kids/
Carlton coach Brendon Bolton is confident that the club’s 90 point loss to Port Adelaide on Friday night will be a valuable learning experience for the raft of Blues youngsters that took to the field at Adelaide Oval.
Bolton’s decision to rest experienced players Matthew Krezuer and Dale Thomas due to soreness and instead play debutant Cameron Poulson and 30-game ruckman Andrew Phillips was met with shock by both supporters and the media, with the prevailing belief that the Blues would play a more experienced team when outside Victoria to help the young side restrict the potential losing margin.
Bolton stood by his selection table choices despite the ugly result, believing the experience of playing in a hostile environment against fancied opposition will be a valuable lesson to the club’s younger players.
“I just thought it was too good of an opportunity for our youngsters to miss. Friday night footy, hostile environment, big crowd,” he told SEN’s Crunch Time.
“In time, it is a long game and it should pay us back… these youngsters have been doing well in the VFL and we think they deserve this opportunity (at AFL level).”
Direct footy was mentioned somewhere in this thread.
It's a double edged sword to go direct.
Opponents read it quickly and set up for it.
You have to have a good forwardline to capitalise and good forward pressure, and good organisation behind the ball in order to prevent quick counter attacks.
None of that is true of our team currently except for our defence and so we are trying something else. That is that you cannot concede whilst you have the ball, and you make your opposition block the defence with numbers resulting in them locking themselves in defence for you. Where we are currently getting burnt is not lowering the eyes and hitting targets inside forward fifty which means that the above isn't eventuating.
Patience. This is the key.
Direct footy is exciting but it results in end to end stuff where physical prowess decides games. That's not our go, so we don't play that way,and rightly so.
I think Bolts is trying to do a mini Hawks with the team - short, precise kicking, keepings off, waiting for the right option etc. But we're not up to it, pure and simple. Bolton keeps using the word connection, and makes repeated reference to the teams lack of connection. Hopefully he can get us to play that way, but I'm not hopeful.
The simple fact is that any team can only hold on to the ball for so long before they cough it up. 30-40 seconds of playing kick and catch in your own half is 30-40 seconds wasted IMO.
It's a game that invites chaos - the ball bounce is variable, all the ground are different proportions / sizes, players can come at you from any direction, no offside etc. Why not embrace the chaos ? There's a fine line between too much order and too little. I think Bolton is over compensating to be honest.
Yep, I was at that game. I remember Akermanis saying how it was seared into their souls and how they channe!ed their hatred of us into a winning mindset.
Yes, we thrashed Brisbane at our only meeting and beat the other Grand Finalist , Essendon twice, first time without alot of our guns. 2001 was a waste.
@ Blue Avenger
Excellent post. We must hold our nerve.
X2
Read the first page and it's shake your head stuff. For years we as a Carlton collective have been crying out for change, we must embrace the draft, build from the bottom, NO MORE quick fixes. The club has done that and when things get a little hard we start to sook it up.
It's hard to be competitive when you have a team of babies going up against a team in their prime. The third quarter showed that, what we saw from Port is where we'll be in 3-4 years time. For now we have to do the hard yards watching a team that is just too young and inexperienced to be in a winning position.
I saw Kruddler put up a comparison of coaches and their wining percentages, sorry Krudd but that is not relevant. This is the FIRST TIME Carlton has truly embraced the draft, so you cannot compare any former Carlton coach with Bolton as they are on different paths.
I'm not really concerned about what Murphy, Gibbs and Simmo do, I'm only looking at our players 23 and under.
Jack Silvagni - A workman like game yet again, does the tough stuff, gets to the right places and plays a true team game. A few unrewarded chases and some dropped marks that need to be tidied up on, but a step forward.
Weitering - Needs to be given a block of games down back, he's just not getting the ball and for a man with his talent he can set up more plays from CHB. When he went back in the third we looked a bit surer around the ball.
Charlie Curnow - Best game so far, I doubt we can have both CC and Jack in the one forward line, just like going out drinking, keep to one or the other or you'll have a bad time. Great marks and used the ball the best he has so far.
Macreadie - Never afraid, decent kick and in constant motion. Is being played on smaller guys so he doesn't get smashed by the bigger frames but we have picked up a steam here. Thanks GWS for not matching our bid. I wouldn't mind using him down forward for a game or two while bringing Weitering down back to see what he could do up front.
Samo - Needs to learn to move the ball quicker. Has shown great evasion skills but players are aware he will try to step them now, so a quick give will allow him to use his evasion on occasion with more effect.
Fisher - Love this kid. He is a terrier who gets knocked down and gets up straight away and goes again. Always looks for the right option and has the skills to back it up.
Williamson - 2nd gamer my ass! Looks in control, has a beautiful kicking style and works hard and smart. With the other talls down there hasn't had to do much in the air so I don't know how good he is there, but is a ready made replacement for Simmo at years end.
Poulson - Like his attitude, loved his run down tackle and one other thing stood out to me. He was on a wing near the boundary, got the ball and gave it off to Murph, then it was instinctual, he looked at Murphs trailing player and laid a shepherd. For so long our players have not protected the ball carrier like other teams do, in Cams first game he did it. Good debut, now back it up and get better.
Plowman - Starting to become Mr Reliable down back, reading the play so much better than last season and his disposal is coming up to where his junior bio read. Reminds me a bit of Peter Dean in the way he'll sacrifice his body to spoil.
Marchbank - Great instincts and love his attitude, but I think his mind is ahead of his skills. Time to use the K.I.S.S. method when getting rid of the ball. Is going to be a stud down back in the coming years.
Pickett - Loved his take off on the wing, then he ran too far but he wanted to run which opened the play up and I think gave us a one on one to advantage in forward 50 which didn't happen very often. It bugs me sometimes to see him jog behind play, be he hasn't had a full pre season yet, being injured when he came to the club and a bit chubby.
Right there is half the team who are all babies in bodies, experience and age. They are are future foundation to build around and they will get smashed, but each time they do it's an investment in the future of the club. We will go again to the draft this season having early picks, maybe Kruezer goes via FA and Gibbs via trade getting us a few extra picks inside 30.
It doesn't matter this year where we finish, what matters is getting games of experience into these players and hopefully they learn and get better quickly.
Very well said son
I think Bolts is trying to do a mini Hawks with the team - short, precise kicking, keepings off, waiting for the right option etc. But we're not up to it, pure and simple. Bolton keeps using the word connection, and makes repeated reference to the teams lack of connection. Hopefully he can get us to play that way, but I'm not hopeful.
He'll turn grey waiting for that to happen...lol.
Me too.
It was my mates 21st. We died his hair Blue (he was a lions supporter).
FWIW, Lions did lose another game, 1, just, late in the season.
It was certainly the last flogging they received before their 3-peat though.
Nope, we're both wrong. They lost the following week in rnd 9 by 5 pts to Adelaide, then didnt lose a game and won the flag.
http://afltables.com/afl/teams/brisbanel/allgames.html
7 teenagers. I count 10 players with less than 30 games, 6 of them with less than 10. The one I think has the most upside had a breakout game in his 10th (or so) game. Charlie Curnow. What a great game for a kid. He can cover the ground and take contested marks. You bloody ripper. There were people jabbering on about playing him in the 2's, he wasn't up to it at AFL level, another wasted pick, etc... Give the boys a chance. They're boys. They need to learn together. It would be nice if we had 20 top line senior players and could play a couple of kids at a time, but we don't. If we played 22 of our senior hacks and retreads there'd be a riot on here with people wanting to sack the coach for not giving the kids a chance. Some of them will get rested when they need it, not just coz they've played a few games of footy. If they've got the mental toughness it won't hurt them a bit, it'll spur them on. If they don't this is how we'll find out, and they can bugger off. Work 'em hard Bolts, and weed out the fraudsters.
Going back to somebody else's post. Hodge, Lewis & Mitchell were kids and got flogged, and they turned out alright. Why, coz they're tough as cats heads. This is one way to find out, and unfortunately for us, we don't have many other options.
Oh yeah, and one more thing. We do have a fair bit of pace, and a few who are a bit slower. But think of finals. Who wins finals? Tough teams do. We need some speed, no doubt about it, but it doesn't hurt to have some slower, mentally tough footballers. SOJ is a bit slow, but I see him a little like the Bulldog's Dixon. Not a great athlete, but a smart forward. Cripps is a bit like Swans Kennedy, a contested ball beast, who just has to be fast enough to get to the next contest. Both of them seem totally committed footballers to me, and you need them (and your speedsters of course) to win flags.
Hi Fellow Blue Baggers,
I havnt read all the posts so I am not sure if this has been said:
What would we be talking about if the likes of Jones, Kerridge, Palmer, Thomas, Jasck, Schemdts, Graham, Buckley played tonight and we still got beaten. We would be calling for blood.
The club warned preseason to expect ups and downs and yes this was a big down.
I am happy to watch the kids play and get beat. Better this then the other way
So true !!
12 pages and lots of interesting insights, suggestions, and reviews. Congratulations to all contributors and allow me to summarise. Hmmm, let's see ... we're screwed.
I am happy to watch the kids play and get beat.
I'm not >:(
Just watched Geelong finish over the top of St Kilda. One J. Selwood had a mountain of contested possessions and was in everything when it counted. Call him a little ducker (which he is) but that's the sort of leadership that is sadly lacking at Princes Park.
Re: Bolton, I had to work on Friday night so didn't see the game but obviously things
again went to pudding in the 3rd q. I'm still shaking my head from the previous game against GC - we were holding our own to half time and for some reason Bolts saw fit to put Weits down back?!? Gee wizz, not only is the kid having to; a) come to grips with the pace of the game at the highest level, and; b) adjust to playing forward when he had settled in nicely down back. Even a 10 year veteran in Harry Taylor is struggling to make the back -> forward switch. GC would have been delighted to come out after the break and see we had effectively raised the white flag. Bad move Brendon, really bad move. Maybe that's why McKay was next to him in the coaches box. For now though, I'm sticking with my signature. For now.
Very well said son
Yes, a very thoughtful and considered contribution from Ray.
I'm not sure that we'll let Kreuzer go to another club but, apart from that, it's a very good analysis of where we're at.
The future is bright, provided everyone holds their nerve.
Having to give something up to find another decent ruckman would be an unneccessary self-inflicted headache... despite Kreuzer's flaws.
I'd like Weitering left forward. He's not played well since he got all but knocked out against Essendon. I'd rather rest him for a week or 2 than flick him forward/back.
Read the first page and it's shake your head stuff. For years we as a Carlton collective have been crying out for change, we must embrace the draft, build from the bottom, NO MORE quick fixes. The club has done that and when things get a little hard we start to sook it up.
It's hard to be competitive when you have a team of babies going up against a team in their prime. The third quarter showed that, what we saw from Port is where we'll be in 3-4 years time. For now we have to do the hard yards watching a team that is just too young and inexperienced to be in a winning position.
I saw Kruddler put up a comparison of coaches and their wining percentages, sorry Krudd but that is not relevant. This is the FIRST TIME Carlton has truly embraced the draft, so you cannot compare any former Carlton coach with Bolton as they are on different paths.
I'm not really concerned about what Murphy, Gibbs and Simmo do, I'm only looking at our players 23 and under.
Jack Silvagni - A workman like game yet again, does the tough stuff, gets to the right places and plays a true team game. A few unrewarded chases and some dropped marks that need to be tidied up on, but a step forward.
Weitering - Needs to be given a block of games down back, he's just not getting the ball and for a man with his talent he can set up more plays from CHB. When he went back in the third we looked a bit surer around the ball.
Charlie Curnow - Best game so far, I doubt we can have both CC and Jack in the one forward line, just like going out drinking, keep to one or the other or you'll have a bad time. Great marks and used the ball the best he has so far.
Macreadie - Never afraid, decent kick and in constant motion. Is being played on smaller guys so he doesn't get smashed by the bigger frames but we have picked up a steam here. Thanks GWS for not matching our bid. I wouldn't mind using him down forward for a game or two while bringing Weitering down back to see what he could do up front.
Samo - Needs to learn to move the ball quicker. Has shown great evasion skills but players are aware he will try to step them now, so a quick give will allow him to use his evasion on occasion with more effect.
Fisher - Love this kid. He is a terrier who gets knocked down and gets up straight away and goes again. Always looks for the right option and has the skills to back it up.
Williamson - 2nd gamer my ass! Looks in control, has a beautiful kicking style and works hard and smart. With the other talls down there hasn't had to do much in the air so I don't know how good he is there, but is a ready made replacement for Simmo at years end.
Poulson - Like his attitude, loved his run down tackle and one other thing stood out to me. He was on a wing near the boundary, got the ball and gave it off to Murph, then it was instinctual, he looked at Murphs trailing player and laid a shepherd. For so long our players have not protected the ball carrier like other teams do, in Cams first game he did it. Good debut, now back it up and get better.
Plowman - Starting to become Mr Reliable down back, reading the play so much better than last season and his disposal is coming up to where his junior bio read. Reminds me a bit of Peter Dean in the way he'll sacrifice his body to spoil.
Marchbank - Great instincts and love his attitude, but I think his mind is ahead of his skills. Time to use the K.I.S.S. method when getting rid of the ball. Is going to be a stud down back in the coming years.
Pickett - Loved his take off on the wing, then he ran too far but he wanted to run which opened the play up and I think gave us a one on one to advantage in forward 50 which didn't happen very often. It bugs me sometimes to see him jog behind play, be he hasn't had a full pre season yet, being injured when he came to the club and a bit chubby.
Right there is half the team who are all babies in bodies, experience and age. They are are future foundation to build around and they will get smashed, but each time they do it's an investment in the future of the club. We will go again to the draft this season having early picks, maybe Kruezer goes via FA and Gibbs via trade getting us a few extra picks inside 30.
It doesn't matter this year where we finish, what matters is getting games of experience into these players and hopefully they learn and get better quickly.
Thanks Ray for a great post. I'm with you. We've seen lots of these thrashings over the years but I still feel for the first time in well over 15 seasons that we're on the right track and we've got some real hope of a future. Having said that I can't see us doing much better against Sydney next week.
I saw Kruddler put up a comparison of coaches and their wining percentages, sorry Krudd but that is not relevant. This is the FIRST TIME Carlton has truly embraced the draft, so you cannot compare any former Carlton coach with Bolton as they are on different paths.
Point was brought up that we performed like we did when Pagan was coach.
Got me thinking about his record. So i compared the 2....then i got curious about Mick....was better than both. So i had to include Ratten for completions sake i threw in Brittain to show he was harshly dealt with too.
I know we are going through a proper rebuild and all that. However, we assumed that we were on the right path before.
Surely we embraced the draft when we picked up Walker, Murphy, Kenedy, Gibbs, Kreuzer and Yarran.
Surely we embraced the draft when we picked up Walker, Murphy, Kenedy, Gibbs, Kreuzer and Yarran.
Embraced is one word.
Completely ballsed it up along with around 8 other picks
Well it's a myth to say we didn't embrace the draft. Winning all the spoons we have embraced it more than anyone and it's got us no where.
Embraced is one word.
Completely ballsed it up along with around 8 other picks
I still contend our problems were mostly player development related and not drafting related, we had picks that many thought were OK, very few of them made the grade!
The tell is the way players leave our club and appear to step up!
I still contend our problems were mostly player development related and not drafting related, we had picks that many thought were OK, very few of them made the grade!
The tell is the way players leave our club and appear to step up!
Still can't fathom the rationale behind picking Lucas ahead of Talia .
I still contend our problems were mostly player development related and not drafting related, we had picks that many thought were OK, very few of them made the grade!
The tell is the way players leave our club and appear to step up!
Watson, Bootsma, Lucas, Yarran, Mitchell, McCarthy, Menzel, Temay, Giles, Holman, Viojo Rainbow and Smith all say hi.
Watson, Bootsma, Lucas, Yarran, Mitchell, McCarthy, Menzel, Temay, Giles, Holman, Viojo Rainbow and Smith all say hi.
Yes, painful memories indeed! Add all of those to our poor past culture/development environment and no wonder we ended up as a basket case. Anyway we must now look forward and learn from the past.
Yes, painful memories indeed! Add all of those to our poor past culture/development environment and no wonder we ended up as a basket case. Anyway we must now look forward and learn from the past.
Agree Cookie, I just get a little riled up when people suggest our drafting was ok and our development let us down. I am fully aware of the deficiencies in our development in the passed, however I have a friend who is best mates with an AFL recruiter. He tells me we were the laughing stock (literally) and the but of many jokes on every draft day pre SOS. SOS may well have joined in the laughter back then. I am staggered at how long it took to change, heck the Geelong guy we got even left practically before he started because we were such a joke.
Agree Cookie, I just get a little riled up when people suggest our drafting was ok and our development let us down. I am fully aware of the deficiencies in our development in the passed, however I have a friend who is best mates with an AFL recruiter. He tells me we were the laughing stock (literally) and the but of many jokes on every draft day pre SOS.
Mate, it's incredible how long that cr@p went on for! :(
Yes, painful memories indeed! Add all of those to our poor past culture/development environment and no wonder we ended up as a basket case. Anyway we must now look forward and learn from the past.
Yes, I agree it's all in the past. We need another 3 years to see the hard work being done now, coming to fruition.
Yes, I agree it's all in the past. We need another 3 years to see the hard work being done now, coming to fruition.
Exactly.
Yes, painful memories indeed! Add all of those to our poor past culture/development environment and no wonder we ended up as a basket case. Anyway we must now look forward and learn from the past.
You can tell how bad our recruiting was that not one of those players are on a list
I don't care who we picked, they were all appropriately rated by us and other clubs and they all failed to progress at our club including those players who left to improve at another club!
The fact that many left our club broken should be a warning to supporters about how our club develops younger players, and keep that in mind relative to our current youth tactics.
You can blame the list manager for some of the mix, but in those cases the coach also gets some blame, the list manager generally acts as instructed.
You can't blame the list manager for players who leave and get better, or players who fail to achieve / reach expectations, that is clearly not the list managers job.
Yes, I agree it's all in the past. We need another 3 years to see the hard work being done now, coming to fruition.
Do you expect the likes of Cripps and Weitering to be re-signing three years from now if the sort of sh1te we currently deliver persists? Will they be physically and psychologically damaged beyond repair? Maybe they'll just be more busted kids on the way out by them!
If the club and players start to improve, doesn't that mean we no longer get low draft picks we say we need, or do you think we can improve with mid-range picks?
Do you really think Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer trades will attract low 1st Rnd picks?
GITC, I also knew a bloke who was part of the recruiting network for a Victorian club and he indicated that a couple of clubs are regarded as recruiting and trading nuff nuffs... not just us.
A number of clubs openly laughed when we drafted a "fat, unfit" Cripps. I do take exception to the fact that everybody we drafted pre-SOS was a dud, many were highly regarded juniors. Some like Giles were cruelled by injury, others were nutcases, but poor development certainly played a big role in the failure of many to come through.
GITC, I also knew a bloke who was part of the recruiting network for a Victorian club and he indicated that a couple of clubs are regarded as recruiting and trading nuff nuffs... not just us.
A number of clubs openly laughed when we drafted a "fat, unfit" Cripps. I do take exception to the fact that everybody we drafted pre-SOS was a dud, many were highly regarded juniors. Some like Giles were cruelled by injury, others were nutcases, but poor development certainly played a big role in the failure of many to come through.
I would think that an impartial analysis of why that was so would be a very interesting exercise.
GITC, I also knew a bloke who was part of the recruiting network for a Victorian club and he indicated that a couple of clubs are regarded as recruiting and trading nuff nuffs... not just us.
A number of clubs openly laughed when we drafted a "fat, unfit" Cripps. I do take exception to the fact that everybody we drafted pre-SOS was a dud, many were highly regarded juniors. Some like Giles were cruelled by injury, others were nutcases, but poor development certainly played a big role in the failure of many to come through.
Richmond would almost certainly be one, and maybe the Demons.
I'm not sure about fat and unfit, but my concern with Cripps is his leg speed and his one-trick-ponyness. In a game where speed is becoming more important, and where a variety of skills are paramount, I would not be averse to trading him for the right deal. I would not be so keen to trade Weets, who I regard as a superior footballer.
Richmond would almost certainly be one, and maybe the Demons.
I'm not sure about fat and unfit, but my concern with Cripps is his leg speed and his one-trick-ponyness. In a game where speed is becoming more important, and where a variety of skills are paramount, I would not be averse to trading him for the right deal. I would not be so keen to trade Weets, who I regard as a superior footballer.
Paul, I think Cripps is a bit deceptive wrgt pace. He certainly doesn't look quick but he does seem to have that bit of time to execute, in a similar way that Rhys-Jones used to have. He looks like he is going to be caught but then somehow gets his disposal away OK. Uncanny!
I don't care who we picked, they were all appropriately rated by us and other clubs and they all failed to progress at our club including those players who left to improve at another club!
The fact that many left our club broken should be a warning to supporters about how our club develops younger players, and keep that in mind relative to our current youth tactics.
You can blame the list manager for some of the mix, but in those cases the coach also gets some blame, the list manager generally acts as instructed.
You can't blame the list manager for players who leave and get better, or players who fail to achieve / reach expectations, that is clearly not the list managers job.
Do you expect the likes of Cripps and Weitering to be re-signing three years from now if the sort of sh1te we currently deliver persists? Will they be physically and psychologically damaged beyond repair? Maybe they'll just be more busted kids on the way out by them!
If the club and players start to improve, doesn't that mean we no longer get low draft picks we say we need, or do you think we can improve with mid-range picks?
Do you really think Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer trades will attract low 1st Rnd picks?
It's only 2-3 years since GWS was experiencing similar thrashings to ours last weekend. GWS has now turned the corner and look premiership threats. We have to stick to the plan. I'm sure Bolton will rest players as they tire. That's why we have the likes of Palmer, Kerridge, Alex Silvagni, Thomas, Curnow (Ed.), Gibbs, etc. still on our list. Even GWS had to have some mature players to spread the physical workload while the young ones muscled-up.
Paul, I think Cripps is a bit deceptive wrgt pace. He certainly doesn't look quick but he does seem to have that bit of time to execute, in a similar way that Rhys-Jones used to have. He looks like he is going to be caught but then somehow gets his disposal away OK. Uncanny!
Maybe strength, will power ? He is also one of the few on our list who doesn't hang onto the ball for an eternity, which may also help.
I don't care who we picked, they were all appropriately rated by us and other clubs and they all failed to progress at our club including those players who left to improve at another club!
The fact that many left our club broken should be a warning to supporters about how our club develops younger players, and keep that in mind relative to our current youth tactics.
You can blame the list manager for some of the mix, but in those cases the coach also gets some blame, the list manager generally acts as instructed.
You can't blame the list manager for players who leave and get better, or players who fail to achieve / reach expectations, that is clearly not the list managers job.
Do you expect the likes of Cripps and Weitering to be re-signing three years from now if the sort of sh1te we currently deliver persists? Will they be physically and psychologically damaged beyond repair? Maybe they'll just be more busted kids on the way out by them!
If the club and players start to improve, doesn't that mean we no longer get low draft picks we say we need, or do you think we can improve with mid-range picks?
Do you really think Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer trades will attract low 1st Rnd picks?
Lets just agree to disagree on this one LP. You think development could have made them good AFL footabllers, IMO, Jesus Christ couldn't have developed those spuds I mentioned into AFL std footballers so we are poles apart on this. Its a new era now, we seem to be on the right track (at least I think we are), it will take time and we need to be patient.
He looks very fallible now that he hasn't got Tuohy backing him up in the defensive rotation.
Agreed. Simpson is struggling too in that regard.
It's only 2-3 years since GWS was experiencing similar thrashings to ours last weekend. GWS has now turned the corner and look premiership threats. We have to stick to the plan. I'm sure Bolton will rest players as they tire. That's why we have the likes of Palmer, Kerridge, Alex Silvagni, Thomas, Curnow (Ed.), Gibbs, etc. still on our list. Even GWS had to have some mature players to spread the physical workload while the young ones muscled-up.
Spot on JoFo. GWS even got on board Mumford for instance as a bit of a father figure/ protector for the young guys as they developed.
It's only 2-3 years since GWS was experiencing similar thrashings to ours last weekend. GWS has now turned the corner and look premiership threats. We have to stick to the plan. I'm sure Bolton will rest players as they tire. That's why we have the likes of Palmer, Kerridge, Alex Silvagni, Thomas, Curnow (Ed.), Gibbs, etc. still on our list. Even GWS had to have some mature players to spread the physical workload while the young ones muscled-up.
GWS were recruiting top draft picks at least 3x faster than Carlton is able to collect them, and that even assumes we stay at the bottom long enough to get early picks!
So if we want to be another GWS we need far more early draft picks, where are they going to come from?
Paul, I think Cripps is a bit deceptive wrgt pace. He certainly doesn't look quick but he does seem to have that bit of time to execute, in a similar way that Rhys-Jones used to have. He looks like he is going to be caught but then somehow gets his disposal away OK. Uncanny!
Cookie...He has the Pendlebury hold the hands high basketball style , so average size mids cant knock the ball away, add that to brute strength and a long stride and he is hard to bring down and restrict disposing of the ball.....we just need to give him another big mid as backup and we will see a fitter better Cripps....dont think pace is an issue, plenty of slow mids who are stars going around.
Dusty isnt super quick, he just pushes people out of the road or in the case of Carlton players they just step aside or throw one arm at him which is equivalent to waving him on....
GWS were recruiting top draft picks at least 3x faster than Carlton is able to collect them, and that even assumes we stay at the bottom long enough to get early picks!
So if we want to be another GWS we need far more early draft picks, where are they going to come from?
I'd love to know how you'd do it. I really don't see any other way. Maybe you know John Elliot? Maybe you are John Elliot?????
I'd love to know how you'd do it. I really don't see any other way. Maybe you know John Elliot? Maybe you are John Elliot?????
We won't without aggressive trading or AFL help, don't hold you breath for AFL help.
The aggressive trading part is Cripps and Weitering, they are both worth two low draft picks each. Turn two aces into four, maybe, but you'd want to be confident of the draft and recruiter! ;)
We won't without aggressive trading or AFL help, don't hold you breath for AFL help.
The aggressive trading part is Cripps and Weitering, they are both worth two low draft picks each. Turn two aces into four, maybe, but you'd want to be confident of the draft and recruiter! ;)
I think I'll stick with the current plan.
Quality players are so hard to get that I wouldn't trade out the few we've got. Even at 50% hit rate, chances are you'd break even - at best.
If he was 3 years younger I'd just about sell the farm for Robbie Gray.
If he was 3 years younger I'd just about sell the farm for Robbie Gray.
They wouldn't take the deal. ;D
We won't without aggressive trading or AFL help, don't hold you breath for AFL help.
The aggressive trading part is Cripps and Weitering, they are both worth two low draft picks each. Turn two aces into four, maybe, but you'd want to be confident of the draft and recruiter! ;)
Potentially the stupidest direction the club could take. Read through the last 10 afl drafts and see how many gun top tens don't make it let alone become a gun
Potentially the stupidest direction the club could take. Read through the last 10 afl drafts and see how many gun top tens don't make it let alone become a gun
x2. Entirely pointless and entirely extremely high risk (with medium prospect of success).
In my world that equals stay the f... away from that deal.
We won't without aggressive trading or AFL help, don't hold you breath for AFL help.
The aggressive trading part is Cripps and Weitering, they are both worth two low draft picks each. Turn two aces into four, maybe, but you'd want to be confident of the draft and recruiter! ;)
We love to make excuses for Gibbs and Murphy who have netted 2 B&Fs between them in almost 20 years of football, and you want to trade out the two future stars of the club?
????
We love to make excuses for Gibbs and Murphy who have netted 2 B&Fs between them in almost 20 years of football, and you want to trade out the two future stars of the club?
????
Apart from seasons ruined by injury, they've both consistently been top 5 in the B+F since 2009.
Apart from seasons ruined by injury, they've both consistently been top 5 in the B+F since 2009.
There's someone consistently in the top 5 B+F in the local underage club. Doesn't make them elite AFL players.
Someone will always finish top 5 in the B+F, they just haven't had a great load of competition.
Well someone best explain to me how trading out Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer guarantees us excellent replacements from 1/2 the number of low draft picks, while trading out Cripps and Weitering for 2x as many low draft picks gives us less chance of find suitable replacements. Because that is basically the rationale many posters on here are arguing and it's a flat out contradiction, an error in logic, just plain wrong!
In summary this is what many were arguing about Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer before I raised the Cripps / Weitering trade option;
| - | - | - | Trading out Player A, B or C will give us valuable low picks we need to draft quality replacements. Young players equal or better in value than those players we let go with good long term prospects. |
then after I raised the Cripps /Weitering subject the tune changed;
| - | - | - | You can't trade out Player A or B for low draft picks, the success of finding an equal or equivalent long term prospect is too low. Getting draft picks won't guarantee finding a successful replacement, Trading away Player A or B is trading away the clubs future! |
You cannot have your cake and eat it too!
The long term prospects of draftees and the chance of draft success are not variables dependant on which players you trade away for the pick!The only variable draft success depends on is really the number of picks, the more low picks you have the greater the chance of success, and that seems to be the SOS strategy.
So if you want to be logical about it, the best trade option is to trade the players that get you the most low draft picks! ;D
It's the logic of Moneyball people, math does not lie and your opinions makes no difference to it's result!
Well someone best explain to me how trading out Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer guarantees us excellent replacements from 1/2 the number of low draft picks, while trading out Cripps and Weitering for 2x as many low draft picks gives us less chance of find suitable replacements. Because that is basically the rationale many posters on here are arguing and it's a flat out contradiction, an error in logic, just plain wrong!
In summary this is what many were arguing about Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer before I raised the Cripps / Weitering trade option;| - | - | - | Trading out Player A, B or C will give us valuable low picks we need to draft quality replacements. Young players equal or better in value than those players we let go with good long term prospects. |
| - | - | - | You can't trade out Player A or B for low draft picks, the success of finding an equal or equivalent long term prospect is too low. Getting draft picks won't guarantee finding a successful replacement, Trading away Player A or B is trading away the clubs future! |
The long term prospects of draftees and the chance of draft success are not variables dependant on which players you trade way! The only variable draft success depends on is the number of picks, the more picks you have the greater the chance of success. So if you want to be logical about it the best trade option is to trade the players that get you the most picks! ;D
I think you're exaggeratting a touch ('guaranteed' and what not).
Without derailing this thread...come over here -> http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=3416.0
....and i'll explain.
There's someone consistently in the top 5 B+F in the local underage club. Doesn't make them elite AFL players.
Someone will always finish top 5 in the B+F, they just haven't had a great load of competition.
This argument is always just around the corner. I never said either of them were elite. The point being made is that both have been consistent performers for our club under mostly trying conditions. Their potential has never been realized in part because of the poor quality around them. If the club thought they were sh1t, they would have moved them on by now. We all wish they were Dangerfield, Selwood, Hodge etc. But they're not - doesn't make them crap.
Can you recall any occasion when either player has been dropped to the 2's, for bad attitude, loss of form, off field indiscretions, anything at all ? I draw your attention to Jack Watts at the Demons, who has been publicly admonished for poor attitude, and I also draw your attention to the plethora of players on our list who have suffered this fate.
Can you recall any occasion when either player has been put up for trade ? Can you recall what happened last season, and the club's stance on trading Gibbs ? Can you tell me how many players the club has traded / delisted during the playing careers of these two ?
Can you explain why MM, a coach of 30 years standing in the game, referred to Gibbs as untouchable ?
Can you explain why under the Bolton-led reset, Murph was reelected captain ?
Can you tell me why these two allegedly soft players, do not suffer the same fate as their soft colleagues, i.e relegated to the 2's (Boeky, KJ and others), or delisted (Everitt) ? The club is clearly capable of taking that action when it sees fit.
I'll tell you why - because even though they're not out and out champions, they are in fact very decent players, and the club treats them accordingly.
I'll tell you why - because even though they're not out and out champions, they are in fact very decent players, and the club treats them accordingly.
...and i've never said any different.
Doesn't change anything i've said though.
...and i've never said any different.
Doesn't change anything i've said though.
What is it that you've said ? That they should be traded if a beneficial deal comes along ? If so, I agree 100%.
@PaulP, thanks for that post, it is excellent and highlights the case without being as derogatory as my own posts. I've basically labelled them morons that cannot see their own contradictions!
Do you think your post will change any attitudes?
I think you are wasting your time, the posters making the case are entrenched in their opinion.
Haters just gotta hate!
@PaulP, thanks for that post, it is excellent and highlights the case without being as derogatory as my own posts. I've basically labelled them morons that cannot see their own contradictions!
Do you think your post will change any attitudes?
I think you are wasting your time, the posters making the case are entrenched in their opinion.
Haters just gotta hate!
All of us want what's best for the club, and we will have different opinions on how that should occur.
The fact that a number of different individuals and regimes are hanging on to these two means that they must be doing something right, even if they're not showered in accolades, awards etc.
I am a hater.
When we invest THE best draft pick on a guy that says 8 years later he has not really put the most he has into his career then yes I hate.
He performs exactly as he says, like he is just happy to be an AFL footballer.
I do not believe that is the type of player you want mentoring your elite talent.
If you believe the young guys don't hear and see that lack of 100% commitment then there is something wrong.
Gibbs and Murphy have had a huge opportunity to take the club forward but it simply hasn't happened.
I believe they both had terrible role models at Carlton and their careers have suffered accordingly.
Let's move em on at years end and start with a new group
I am a hater.
When we invest THE best draft pick on a guy that says 8 years later he has not really put the most he has into his career then yes I hate.
He performs exactly as he says, like he is just happy to be an AFL footballer.
I do not believe that is the type of player you want mentoring your elite talent.
If you believe the young guys don't hear and see that lack of 100% commitment then there is something wrong.
Gibbs and Murphy have had a huge opportunity to take the club forward but it simply hasn't happened.
I believe they both had terrible role models at Carlton and their careers have suffered accordingly.
Let's move em on at years end and start with a new group
You've been steadfast in your position on these two, and you are, like all of us, welcome to your opinion. If you believe that we are now on the right track, and that we have the right people in place making the right decisions, how will you feel if these two are still on our list in 2019, 2020 ?
I am a hater.
When we invest THE best draft pick on a guy that says 8 years later he has not really put the most he has into his career then yes I hate.
He performs exactly as he says, like he is just happy to be an AFL footballer.
I do not believe that is the type of player you want mentoring your elite talent.
If you believe the young guys don't hear and see that lack of 100% commitment then there is something wrong.
Gibbs and Murphy have had a huge opportunity to take the club forward but it simply hasn't happened.
I believe they both had terrible role models at Carlton and their careers have suffered accordingly.
Let's move em on at years end and start with a new group
If we extend your logic to all players on the list, then the list can only go backwards. Simply because the likelihood a replacement will be a Kane Lucas type is far greater than the likelihood a replacement will be an equivalent of the better players.
I made the Cripps / Weitering argument to expose this flaw in the logic, yet the flawed logic persists!
In reality Gibbs, Murphy and Kreuzer are above average draft picks, they have the runs on the board and in that respect are even more valuable than Cripps or Weitering because despite injuries they are proven to have sufficient longevity and durability to reach significant milestones at the AFL level. Cripps and Weitering are yet to do that!
To have a 50/50 or better chance of finding equivalent replacements for Cripps, Weitering, Gibbs, Murphy or Kreuzer you will need at least 3 picks below 10 in the draft for each player of that type you trade away. The players age is irrelevant, because it takes years to get that many 1st round picks.
The AFL knows this, which is why they give GWS so many picks, you cannot avoid the math!The logic of your argument is being applied at Hawthorn, a club that players want to move to, yet they will most likely fail! One media scribe described the Dawks strategy as "Doing their very best to beat the system!" The warning for other clubs is this, despite the Dawks being seen as a more favourable destination by players which is a purely human influence, the Dawks are unlikely to succeed! You cannot beat the math, your opinion, human opinions makes no difference! The Dawks are going down the same flawed path as a gambler playing the lottery, roulette or a poker machine! The Gambler's Fallacy!
If a club tries to shortcut the process they must eventually be overtaken by the clubs with the most low draft picks, because the club trying the shortcut runs out of players to trade for low draft picks, which is the only way to get low draft picks if you don't finish on the bottom!
In fact the Dawks best chance of success are to stay down were they are now and get the low draft picks with Norp and Freo! Which by the way would reduce our chances of success in the long term!
You've been steadfast in your position on these two, and you are, like all of us, welcome to your opinion. If you believe that we are now on the right track, and that we have the right people in place making the right decisions, how will you feel if these two are still on our list in 2019, 2020 ?
I think we will have made a mistake, and it will affect our development as the kids will have role models that are happy to go through the motions
What is it that you've said ? That they should be traded if a beneficial deal comes along ? If so, I agree 100%.
That, amongst others things.
http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=3416.new#new
I think we will have made a mistake, and it will affect our development as the kids will have role models that are happy to go through the motions
Well you may get your wish, or at least half of it.
To the best of my knowledge, Murph's current contract expires at the end of season 2018, by which time he'll be 31. I can't see him getting another long term contract, for 3 reasons :
1. reset
2. age
3. injuries
So my guess is he will either retire, or be offered a standard "golden oldies" contract i.e 1 year plus option, low wage, no guarantee of playing every game etc. By this time, a succession plan would hopefully be in place and he may have already relinquished the captaincy.
That, amongst others things.
http://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=3416.new#new
That link takes me straight to a quote from cimm regarding Casboult.
EDIT : don't worry - I've sorted it.
I am a hater.
When we invest THE best draft pick on a guy that says 8 years later he has not really put the most he has into his career then yes I hate.
He performs exactly as he says, like he is just happy to be an AFL footballer.
I do not believe that is the type of player you want mentoring your elite talent.
If you believe the young guys don't hear and see that lack of 100% commitment then there is something wrong.
Gibbs and Murphy have had a huge opportunity to take the club forward but it simply hasn't happened.
I believe they both had terrible role models at Carlton and their careers have suffered accordingly.
Let's move em on at years end and start with a new group
Amen brother, well said.
The whole internet "haters" concept is tricky when it comes to topics one is passionate about. I can truly say when the team runs out at the beginning of every match that I LOVE and admire every player for choosing to, and having the ability to play for my beloved Blues - something I was never talented enough to do. Don't think I've ever hated a player (except Franchina :P). I admit to developing a strong dislike for Fevola yet I would still turn up week after week and "oooh" and "ahhh" along with the rest of us.
I think Murphy has had an incredibly unlucky run. When you read his career progression on Wiki it becomes apparent how, every time he was hitting his straps, he'd suffer a major injury.
I also think the game has changed markedly since he was recruited - and I think this points to a
major flaw with Carlton's recruiting strategy. There are smaller players going around (e.g. Dahlhaus, Puopolo) but they're quicker by hand and/or demon tacklers and/or strong overhead. We seem not to have taken into consideration how quickly the game can change and blindly choose the seemingly 'best pedigreed' player on paper. Gibbs is a prime example of this viz a viz the Kernahan connection. While Hawthorn was picking up gangly colts with raking left feet or cherry picking dour, miserly defenders with specific roles in mind, we were content to take the easy option of taking the number 1 junior player as judged by so-called 'experts' ::) It was a lazy strategy - one which gave the recruiters an easy 'out'. Remember that ad - "no-one ever got fired for choosing IBM".
To say Gibbs and Murphy have been consistently among our best players for 10 years is really highlighting the fact that double nothing is still nothing.
I saw a picture of Dixon consoling Weitering at the end of the match. This picture summerised the match for me, Carlton had young men still developing and Port had grown men fully developed. We lost two mature bodied players in Kreuzer and Thomas before the match and then proceeded to have two more injured during the game. While very disappointed by the game on Friday night, I was more happy after watching the Northern Blues on saturday afternoon because I could see what the club is trying to do.
Carlton's game is based on having pressure around the contest, at the moment because our players aren't physically developed enough, too many players are drawn to the contest, and when we don't win the contest, we are then exposed out the back. This happened against Gold Coast and Port Adelaide.
Against Essendon, we won the contest because Essendon players didn't want to commit. They were pretty pathetic. The ball when it went into our defence, came in slowly and we were able to set up and repel. Our lack of forward development meant we didn't slaughter them by 20 goals like we should have.
What I take out is that our best player this season has been Plowman. He is one year further down his development than the others. So in another 12 months, Silvagni, Curnow, Weitering, Cunningham and Mckay are all going to be good players, along with Picket and Marchbank, in two years time, Polson, SPS, Macreadie, Fisher, williamson and Kerr will also be good players. Along with Cripps, Docherty, Plowman & Byrne. This gives us a base of 17 good young players to build the team around for the next 10.
This is what I got out of last weekends games.
Whilst it's in the realm of a hypothetical, I imagine if you put Gibbs and Murph in the recent Hawks / Cats teams, you would see two different players. Conversely, put Hodge, Danger etc. in our team, then you would also see 2 different players.
Whilst it's in the realm of a hypothetical, I imagine if you put Gibbs and Murph in the recent Hawks / Cats teams, you would see two different players. Conversely, put Hodge, Danger etc. in our team, then you would also see 2 different players.
It's the second hypothetical which begs further analysis. Why do you think that may be the case? I'm of the opinion that the Mitchells (sorry, can't write about Hodge - he disgusts me), Dangerfields, Abletts, etc. of this world remain consistently committed to excellence no matter who they play for. Slight change to style/gameplan, perhaps?
It's the second hypothetical which begs further analysis. Why do you think that may be the case? I'm of the opinion that the Mitchells (sorry, can't write about Hodge - he disgusts me), Dangerfields, Abletts, etc. of this world remain consistently committed to excellence no matter who they play for. Slight change to style/gameplan, perhaps?
Being committed to excellence is one thing. Playing consistent, high quality football is another, and is easier when you're surrounded by quality. Dangerfield, Hodge, Mitchell have always played in very good clubs, good players, good culture etc. When good players leave our club to go somewhere better, they prosper (2E, Betts, maybe even Laidler and Waite, although the latter two might be stretching the friendship a little).
Nathan Jones from Melbourne is a player I really like and have a lot of time for - do you think he would've fared better at the Hawks/cats etc ? Because I do. Until recently he's been surrounded by muck. He has never been AA (although he deserves to iMO), and he has less Brownlow votes than either Gibbs or Murph.
I saw a picture of Dixon consoling Weitering at the end of the match.
You mean recruit whispering, come on over to us, we can take away your pain! ;)
Panic stations....!!!! ;D
Some 'interesting' reading on here at the minute....funny too much of it!
Regardless, there's more pain on the way. Buckle up peoples!!