Been in the news a bit lately. Why don't these see you next Tuesdays pull their heads in and just enjoy a night out at the soccer. Is it really that boring that they need to start blueing? WTF is the matter with them. Never liked the a league myself...always thought it was for tryhards trying to emulate the overseas culture.
Thoughts.
As a South Melbourne FC die hard im numb to anything that happens in the HAL(ia) league. HAL standing for Hyundai A League the bit in brackets is an in joke for Greeks.
As far as I can tell any negative press the media can give soccer they can and I feel that this might be due code rivalry and vested interest by media that dont want to see soccer take off.
My advice to them is dont be concerned with airing the codes dirty laundry and focus on figures and the A league will go belly up in die course. Imagine the AFL not having one profitable club and having to bail out 27 million dollar losses annually? Thats whats happening in the A league. Grass roots soccer is footing the bill with junior registrations tipping the four digit figures in some academies. All points to disaster for soccer moving forward.
I don't know a lot about soccer but violence between supporters of different clubs seems to be a common factor wherever the game is played. Contrast that with the generally good natured rivalry between supporters in other codes.
Perhaps the league could ban supporters from wearing club colours; if everyone was in neutral clothes it would be difficult to know who to attack ::)
Soccer is outdated.
A sport where after an extended period the winner did so by achieving 2 successes to the opponents 1 is the very recipe for severe supporter frustration. Severe. So many minutes with so little being achieved.
Any wonder supporters carry on as they do... 80+ minutes of frustration is ridiculous!!!!
This sport should be abandoned and stopped. >:D >:D >:D This sport feeds civil unrest and antisocial behavior. >:D >:D
In our game, even if you lose (same for basketball and hockey), at least you have had the opportunity to cheer and hope (expelling frustration). Goodbye soccer... your run was good, but now we need football >:D >:D
The wars between fans is simply ridiculous and always has been in this sport. Not a great example for the kids at all, and its little wonder less kids come to watch soccer because their parents are too worried an issue in the crowd will erupt. I'm an ethnic that watched the sport years ago, but stopped watching because of all the fights before and after a game. COOL DOWN HOT HEADS. COOL DOWN. Not enough love in this world.
As a South Melbourne FC die hard im numb to anything that happens in the HAL(ia) league. HAL standing for Hyundai A League the bit in brackets is an in joke for Greeks.
As far as I can tell any negative press the media can give soccer they can and I feel that this might be due code rivalry and vested interest by media that dont want to see soccer take off.
My advice to them is dont be concerned with airing the codes dirty laundry and focus on figures and the A league will go belly up in die course. Imagine the AFL not having one profitable club and having to bail out 27 million dollar losses annually? Thats whats happening in the A league. Grass roots soccer is footing the bill with junior registrations tipping the four digit figures in some academies. All points to disaster for soccer moving forward.
I don't see why the media would have a vested interest in the failure of "the world game" in our country and you can't say these riots were singled out because the media has an agenda. The media will always report the negatives before the positives because that's what sells, and from what I can tell there a very few positives to report on the A-League anyway.
The media doesn't need to paint a bad picture about soccer the fans do it themselves. Going to the game tonight better make sure I pack the Flares... WTF?
Took my son to an A League game and it was soooo boring, spoke to an ethnic guy in front about it and he agreed with me and couldn't understand why he was there watching this garbage as well.
TALK ABOUT WATCHING PAINT DRY.
And yes the mandatory flares we're let off during that game.
Always thought the game wouldn't get any respect Australia wide until the players stopped faking free kicks and injuries, it is so un Australian. >:(
Don't get me started on junior soccer and those kids falling over like flies as if they had just been shot and then the parents running on the field yelling abuse at the oppos players...WTF. Only for the tears to be wiped away and then they play on. :o
Give me Aussie rules anyday. 8)
I remember watching a doco while ago about soccer fan violence overseas. From memory, it was said that in a few cases, soccer is merely used as a front and the violence had to do with underworld and organised crime rings extracting revenge on each other.
Not sure that would be the case here, but monkey see, monkey do...people trying to emulate what they do overseas through some warped idea that it's so much better over there.
Best country in the world here, and people don't realise how good we have it compared to other places. Lets keep it that way.
Soccer.....pfft! Just not interested at all.
I don't know a lot about soccer but violence between supporters of different clubs seems to be a common factor wherever the game is played. Contrast that with the generally good natured rivalry between supporters in other codes.
Perhaps the league could ban supporters from wearing club colours; if everyone was in neutral clothes it would be difficult to know who to attack ::)
Opposing supporters are separated in most countries. I guess it is not unexpected when the game gives so few scores that misses are put on TV as highlights and scoreless draws are considered good contests. Fans put enormous energy into their teams and it all comes out when a score occurs. Single scores often alter games.
We put in the same energy, but as we score more often, we don't have the pent up rage that occurs in soccer. It is released in smaller quanta. I have survived as a 13 year old boy in the outer at Collingwood shouting for Carlton with all my being. That just wouldn't happen in soccer.
Mind you, it also appears to be a life style choice among soccer fans. I can recall listening to a soccer hooligan trying to chat up a girl on a train by describing his behavior. His mother had to ring in for him most Monday mornings as he was in jail.
His mother had to ring in for him most Monday mornings as he was in jail.
;D ;D ;D
I'll remember to use that one next time I'm down the Dorset trying to pick up sheilas. ;D
First things first, covering your face in a public gathering with intent to do harm is a gutless act by a weak prick who still has a mummy wiping their ar5e!
The media are not the primary cause of this problem but they do contribute to it, they happily stoke the fires to get more copy. It gets more coverage now because of that, but it really isn't any more violent than things that happened years ago around the old Melbourne league.
Finally, it has nothing to do with soccer, football, rugby or any other sport with a vested interest. It is all racist crap hiding under the cover of team colours.
Making a law or league ruling to remove points from teams will only make it worse, next time the weak gutless pricks will dress up as opposition supporters and try to deliberately cause a loss of points.
We have to be a bit careful about theorising about soccer's scoring rate being so low that it engenders frustration which results in violence. Very often, this sort of theorising involves justifying our own prejudices rather than looking at evidence to see where it leads us. I read a good book about this recently - it catalogued a number of areas in which "common sense" notions are just a load of bollocks. One of the more obvious examples currently is the way that Abbott's government and all his fellow travellers allow their fundamental cynicism about global warming (or more likely their distaste concerning the ramifications that addressing it might have on the noble pursuit of profits) to influence policy, despite Abbott's claim that he accepts global warming as true.
Desmond Morris, who is a famous author of books about human behaviour, wrote that soccer was supposedly the perfect game to release frustrations. He focussed on the number of times the ball came into contact with the foot, and he theorised that this made it a great game to enthrall spectators and diminish their wish to fight. I doubt if his analysis was driven by much research. No doubt, he was just a soccer fan who felt that it was the best game on Earth and he wanted merely to confirm his own prejudice by dressing it up as a scientific theory.
Having said that, I share the same prejudice about soccer's dullness being a factor in crowd violence!! :-X
Gladiator fights must have been really boring :)
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/pompeii.html
"About this time [AD 59] there was a serious fight between the inhabitants of two Roman settlements, Nuceria and Pompeii. It arose out of a trifling incident at a gladiatorial show....During an exchange of taunts—characteristic of these disorderly country towns—abuse led to stone-throwing, and then swords were drawn. The people of Pompeii, where the show was held, came off best. Many wounded and mutilated Nucerians were taken to the capital. Many bereavements, too, were suffered by parents and children. The emperor instructed the senate to investigate the affair. The senate passed it to the consuls. When they reported back, the senate debarred Pompeii from holding any similar gathering for ten years. Illegal associations in the town were dissolved; and the sponsor of the show and his fellow-instigators of the disorders were exiled."
There's a simple one word explanation for it IMO - "tribalism" - with all due respect one of our illustrious mods.
I heard a Melbourne Victory fan complaining on radio about the way that the club was treating its members. It was trying to move them away from some area that they controlled. This guy said that the fans are the ones that provide the atmosphere at their games. He said that they came up with chants and signs that were directed at the opposition. He suggested that this was only playful and in good fun. But you wouldn't have to be Albert Einstein to figure out that this sort of behaviour can easily degenerate into aggression. No doubt there are witty people who can make opposing fans laugh, but they're a rare breed. Much more common is the sort of subtle and imaginative types that came up with "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie ... Oi, Oi, Oi!". At least that's a chant that focusses on one's own players, but it's easy to see sledging degenerating into mindless and crude insults. No doubt there are many youngsters who take their lead from overseas clubs whose supporters show their support by going to war with opposing fans. Not likely that such "supporters" would bother too much with subtlety or humour.
At least in the AFL we've largely quarantined such behaviour. Cheer Squads are restricted in their seating allocations and they are scrutinised by their club administrations. Eddie even forced the Pies' cheer squad to reapply for membership of the cheer squad. There may also be some interstate venues, particularly in SA, where home fans give visiting fans and players a not-so-warm welcome. But everywhere else fans from opposing teams can sit together peacefully enough without being subjected to a barrage of sledging.
I heard a Melbourne Victory fan complaining on radio about the way that the club was treating its members. It was trying to move them away from some area that they controlled. This guy said that the fans are the ones that provide the atmosphere at their games. He said that they came up with chants and signs that were directed at the opposition. He suggested that this was only playful and in good fun. But you wouldn't have to be Albert Einstein to figure out that this sort of behaviour can easily degenerate into aggression. No doubt there are witty people who can make opposing fans laugh, but they're a rare breed. Much more common is the sort of subtle and imaginative types that came up with "Aussie, Aussie, Aussie ... Oi, Oi, Oi!". At least that's a chant that focusses on one's own players, but it's easy to see sledging degenerating into mindless and crude insults. No doubt there are many youngsters who take their lead from overseas clubs whose supporters show their support by going to war with opposing fans. Not likely that such "supporters" would bother too much with subtlety or humour.
Well Mav, if you want to hear some funny chants and songs, you should stand near me and my mates at the footy. We sing our pissed lungs out a lot of the time. Most of them we come up with on the spot to the tune of certain songs which makes it all the more fresh/funnier....though a couple we borrow. We've been warned about fowl language a few times though. ;D
By the way - why don't we have a proper grog squad? From memory the Tiges have one, and the Bombers and Hawks. I want one. ;D
@Gozza
Fowl language can shock some people!
(http://aca_members.s3.amazonaws.com/Danny-Zemp-1384924234-Chicken-fowl-language-s.jpg)
I no understand. ;D
I no understand. ;D
fowl 1. Any of various birds of the order Galliformes, especially the common, widely domesticated chicken (Gallus gallus).
2.a. A bird, such as the duck, goose, turkey, or pheasant, that is used as food or hunted as game.
b. The flesh of such birds used as food.
3. A bird of any kind.
foul 1. Offensive to the senses; revolting.
2. Of a vulgar or obscene nature: foul language. :D
Ok so a fowl is a bird. ;D
So sheilas wouldn't get offended by my language? Just kidding. ;D
By the way - why don't we have a proper grog squad? From memory the Tiges have one, and the Bombers and Hawks. I want one. ;D
There used to be one at ground level beneath the Northern (Hawthorn) Stand at Optus Oval back in the day.
There's a simple one word explanation for it IMO - "tribalism" - with all due respect one of our illustrious mods.
Spot on C2. These soccer jokers are cowards that like to create havoc in the relative safety of numbers. When confronted as individuals they would run away.
There's a simple one word explanation for it IMO - "tribalism" - with all due respect one of our illustrious mods.
Spot on C2. These soccer jokers are cowards that like to create havoc in the relative safety of numbers. When confronted as individuals they would run away.
You know, whenever I'd get approached by an oppo fan, I'd meet him out front, mono E mono. Same as if I'd be at the pub.
This mob/gang mentality is just BS.
My theory is that people use soccer and tennis as an excuse to take out their tribal and economic frustrations.
Though, if my theory was correct, you would think that the north and south of the USA would brawl it up too....
My theory is that people use soccer and tennis as an excuse to take out their tribal and economic frustrations.
Though, if my theory was correct, you would think that the north and south of the USA would brawl it up too....
I agree with the first part. Hurling chairs, slurring YULEHHSS, and so on. Get farked. Just enjoy the damn game. Otherwise fark off.
Simpsons have long been critical of Soccer
[flash=300,200]http://www.youtube.com/v/IbRXQ-A6-O8[/flash]
this one from about 40 in:
[flash=300,200]http://www.youtube.com/v/qw72HDU8yRg[/flash]
Favourite quotes are:
This match will once and for all determine which nation is the greatest on earth: Mexico or Portugal
Oi! your boy is a flopper he is
Last year in Brazil, an onfield scuffle turned so violent, locals say a statue of the Virgin Mary came alive and beat the holy snot out of everyone.
The irony is people calling soccer boring yet being followers of test cricket.
The game isnt all about scoring. Anyone too focussed on goals is not appreciating the tactical arm wrestle that occurs when the game is played adeptly.
The issue with Australian soccer is more to do with quality and smarts than it does anything else. My wife looks at the proffesional soccer players and cannot differentiate between us amateur part timers which is either a massive compliment to us(unlikely) or speaks for how bad your average top flight players are (bingo).
There is much absolute rubbish being touted as fact in this topic. Fans dont get frustrated from a lack of scoring leading to violence. Ive seen plenty of borin high scoring soccer and Afl games, likewise i have seen plenty of close contests from both codes with the similar level of apprehension about the result.
Violence follows violent people. It doesnt have anything to do with a sporting code nor does it have anything to do with a match itself. Just sometimes people are f-wits.
Both the Herald Sun and the Sunday Telegraph have front pages regarding "Soccer" violence this morning.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/secret-files-reveal-violent-aleague-antics-in-our-sports-capital/story-fni0fee2-1226795049093
The Tele's front page is "Thugs Invade Sydney Soccer"
There's a statement from Victory in today's Age condemning "hooliganism" from "alleged fans".
The irony is people calling soccer boring yet being followers of test cricket.
The game isnt all about scoring. Anyone too focussed on goals is not appreciating the tactical arm wrestle that occurs when the game is played adeptly.
The issue with Australian soccer is more to do with quality and smarts than it does anything else. My wife looks at the proffesional soccer players and cannot differentiate between us amateur part timers which is either a massive compliment to us(unlikely) or speaks for how bad your average top flight players are (bingo).
There is much absolute rubbish being touted as fact in this topic. Fans dont get frustrated from a lack of scoring leading to violence. Ive seen plenty of borin high scoring soccer and Afl games, likewise i have seen plenty of close contests from both codes with the similar level of apprehension about the result.
Violence follows violent people. It doesnt have anything to do with a sporting code nor does it have anything to do with a match itself. Just sometimes people are f-wits.
I don't think it has much to do with whether the game is boring or not, even though soccer prima donnas bore me. I think there is an ethnic element in these soccer mobs. If you look closely at these idiots they are mainly of middle Eastern and Southern European background. These 'people' as part of ethnic minorities tend to gang-up as a means of empowering themselves. Before you call me racist, I am of Southern European heritage, so I should know.
I don't think it has much to do with whether the game is boring or not, even though soccer prima donnas bore me. I think there is an ethnic element in these soccer mobs. If you look closely at these idiots they are mainly of middle Eastern and Southern European background. These 'people' as part of ethnic minorities tend to gang-up as a means of empowering themselves. Before you call me racist, I am of Southern European heritage, so I should know.
You're probably right Jofo.
I find soccer boring but I imagine it's anything but to people who grew up with and love the game.
As many people will remember, all of the Melbourne soccer clubs had an ethnic affiliation back in the 1960s and 70s and crowd violence was the norm. However, I think it was more about settling old scores than empowerment. Now that Melbourne has two teams in a so-called national competition, I imagine that ethnic affiliations aren't important and your empowering theory is more relevant.
I don't think it has much to do with whether the game is boring or not, even though soccer prima donnas bore me. I think there is an ethnic element in these soccer mobs. If you look closely at these idiots they are mainly of middle Eastern and Southern European background. These 'people' as part of ethnic minorities tend to gang-up as a means of empowering themselves. Before you call me racist, I am of Southern European heritage, so I should know.
Gee I am not so sure on the minority issue, do you really believe Middle Eastern or Southern Europeans are a minority in Australia!!!
I suspect that is just how they want to be viewed as an excuse for bad behavior. The ethnic minority argument for Europeans or Southern European of any flavor is just a bogus argument in my opinion!
Bullies always claim to be the victim when they are caught out bullying!
But I do agree about the ethnicity racism issue, I hear that the riots last week have been related to a get even for the bashing of two Victory fans in Sydney last year.
You're probably right Jofo.
I find soccer boring but I imagine it's anything but to people who grew up with and love the game.
As many people will remember, all of the Melbourne soccer clubs had an ethnic affiliation back in the 1960s and 70s and crowd violence was the norm. However, I think it was more about settling old scores than empowerment. Now that Melbourne has two teams in a so-called national competition, I imagine that ethnic affiliations aren't important and your empowering theory is more relevant.
Back then it was different because the clubs were grew out of, were funded and closely affiliated with ethnic specific venues in various suburbs.
Heart and Victory have no such affiliation although certain lobby groups try to make it out that is the case!
I see myself as an Australian first and foremost, what really hurts me is to see people most of whom are probably 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation Australian's associate themselves with another country and culture first ahead of their country!
FWIW, my grandmother was Italian although her family heritage was mostly Spanish. (Catalonia) I don't believe I am part of a minority because I am Australian!
I see myself as an Australian first and foremost, what really hurts me is to see people most of whom are probably 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation Australian's associate themselves with another country and culture first ahead of their country!
I struggle to understand why people do that LP, particularly those who 'return home' to fight in civil wars or ethnic conflicts. ::)
If I was a copper, I'd grab a handful of the main culprits, take each one individually into a locked room, and beat the living fark out of each of them. Problem is in this country, we have too many wet lettuce leaf punishments so people seem to do as they please.
If I was a copper, I'd grab a handful of the main culprits, take each one individually into a locked room, and beat the living fark ou
t of each of them. Problem is in this country, we have too many wet lettuce leaf punishments so people seem to do as they please.
Agreed.
If I was a copper, I'd grab a handful of the main culprits, take each one individually into a locked room, and beat the living fark out of each of them. Problem is in this country, we have too many wet lettuce leaf punishments so people seem to do as they please.
Gozz, when I was a young bloke that's exactly what you might get for what was known as "delinquency" if you got caught - a good spanking from the cops - none of these woozy magistrates! C:-)
Soccer fans are pseudo-terrorists !!
Why do they need to march enmasse in front of a large flag with their face covered screaming antagonistic slogans etc ??
And how many of them are Anglo-Australians too ??
Yep, none of them !!
Seriously folks
The answer to Soccer hooliganism is not to beat up the hooligans. ::) :D
Seriously folks
The answer to Soccer hooliganism is not to beat up the hooligans. ::) :D
Bloody good dose of their own medicine!!
Seriously folks
The answer to Soccer hooliganism is not to beat up the hooligans. ::) :D
Bloody good dose of their own medicine!!
.....Would just send them out to seek a weaker target to take their frustration out on.
Those that throw the first punch are either bullies or gutless wonders.
Whether they do so in a position of authority or not.
Seriously folks
The answer to Soccer hooliganism is not to beat up the hooligans. ::) :D
Bloody good dose of their own medicine!!
.....Would just send them out to seek a weaker target to take their frustration out on.
Those that throw the first punch are either bullies or gutless wonders.
Whether they do so in a position of authority or not.
What do you suggest be done then?
Ban them.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the English Premier League seem to have a lot less problems than they did 20 -30 years ago with this trouble. They've taken a hard line at club level. Deprived trouble makers of the opportunity to attend matches.
Does anyone seriously believe we'd ever have a system where violent offenders are subjected to violence in order to curb their violent behaviour....1014 maybe not 2014.
Does anyone seriously believe we'd ever have a system where violent offenders are subjected to violence in order to curb their violent behaviour....1014 maybe not 2014.
Ever seen A Clockwork Orange? ;D
Ban them.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the English Premier League seem to have a lot less problems than they did 20 -30 years ago with this trouble. They've taken a hard line at club level. Deprived trouble makers of the opportunity to attend matches.
Does anyone seriously believe we'd ever have a system where violent offenders are subjected to violence in order to curb their violent behaviour....1014 maybe not 2014.
Ban them and charge them with criminal charges that apply. The same you would if they did behave like this anywhere else but increase the penalties and fines. Over time the numbers will drop. I'm sure CCV TV can catch out dozens of guilty parties at each venue each and every time. Violence encourages violence and a beating won't stop them but anger them more. Some time behind bars, and a few thousand dollars in penalties, along with criminal records, and/or behaviour bonds will make things different. Especially if they offend again and spend more time behind bars. At least they will be off the streets out of harms way. I agree something at club level to set an example. Teaching the children and lower league levels that this behaviour will be punished severely. I don't know what the penalties are at the moment, but they are not enough. Their opportunity to act is now.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wLi7zKL-8y8/TgKix3_1OuI/AAAAAAAABdc/-TNrfpAuQy8/s400/The+Ludvico+Technique.jpg)
Does anyone seriously believe we'd ever have a system where violent offenders are subjected to violence in order to curb their violent behaviour....1014 maybe not 2014.
Ever seen A Clockwork Orange? ;D
Interesting movie
Great piece of fiction ;)
Does anyone seriously believe we'd ever have a system where violent offenders are subjected to violence in order to curb their violent behaviour....1014 maybe not 2014.
Ever seen A Clockwork Orange? ;D
Interesting movie
Great piece of fiction ;)
So Lodsie, I know you've worked in prisons and what not for a long time. Have you never at least felt the urge or the thought cross your mind to kick them up their defiant arses?
Does anyone seriously believe we'd ever have a system where violent offenders are subjected to violence in order to curb their violent behaviour....1014 maybe not 2014.
Ever seen A Clockwork Orange? ;D
Interesting movie
Great piece of fiction ;)
So Lodsie, I know you've worked in prisons and what not for a long time. Have you never at least felt the urge or the thought cross your mind to kick them up their defiant arses?
Never Gozz
Because once you lose control in that situation..... You've lost big time....and that can be career ending, or even worse, leave you open to charges yourself.
Defiant behaviour is often designed for exactly that purpose..... to get under your skin.
So you separate the behaviour from the individual...and never take things personally.
You see for many of these guys (and girls) the expectation is that if they're abusive and defiant you'll react physically...that's what happens at home.
They can't cope with someone who stays calm and doesn't react.
It unbalances them....and it's effective because in most cases you have control.
If not.... it buys time until your support staff arrive.
(I will add that support in the custodial settings I've worked in has always been pretty good...duress alarms and radios are worn and assistance is always pretty prompt.)
As a South Melbourne FC die hard im numb to anything that happens in the HAL(ia) league. HAL standing for Hyundai A League the bit in brackets is an in joke for Greeks.
As far as I can tell any negative press the media can give soccer they can and I feel that this might be due code rivalry and vested interest by media that dont want to see soccer take off.
My advice to them is dont be concerned with airing the codes dirty laundry and focus on figures and the A league will go belly up in die course. Imagine the AFL not having one profitable club and having to bail out 27 million dollar losses annually? Thats whats happening in the A league. Grass roots soccer is footing the bill with junior registrations tipping the four digit figures in some academies. All points to disaster for soccer moving forward.
I don't see why the media would have a vested interest in the failure of "the world game" in our country and you can't say these riots were singled out because the media has an agenda. The media will always report the negatives before the positives because that's what sells, and from what I can tell there a very few positives to report on the A-League anyway.
Over the past ten years, and even before that, any negative press got more and prolonged airtime than anything to do with results, goalscorers, goals scored, matches played across the country or anything else.
Do you recall the Dandenong Thunder VPL final? We got a 5 minute news report about a flare, with no mention of the result of the match.
Back to the newspapers and you will find that the chief sports writers are all affiliated with other codes, and since I can remember, unless a major tournament is happening, articles on soccer are dead set buried. The AFL draft gets better news coverage than Australian Soccer as a code does. Dont tell me that they evenly present the news in newspapers. Its dead set bulldust.
The media have no idea how to report on the code because they are a majority of ex sportsman from other codes, who dont appreciate the game. Its cringeworthy to hear Tim Watson and Andrew Maher talk about soccer on SEN as they have relatively no idea about the game. Its the same when you hear Basil Zempilas commentating on anything (including AFL and Tennis) as he seems to have little to no idea.
The people who are being focussed on as "moronic fans" are dead set oxygen thieves yet all we do is give them their 5 minutes of fame by showing the reports and photos over and over again of these blokes on the news.
Lets not forget what C7 sport did to the NSL. Purchased the media rights for the NSL when the game was desperate for money, and then showed the matches only after Midnight on school nights. No footage of the NSL was seen for the better part of 5 years thanks to this movement, and the news reports only focussed on violence. The stupid side of that, was that being a regular attendee of NSL matches, I was as surprised as most of you would have been to discover that lots of these events even occurred yet there they were on the News for the world to see.
There are 135 a-league fixtures every season not including finals, there are 11 games highlighted over the course of 3 years on the newspapers today. The vast majority of fans do nothing wrong. Even in the games highlighted above. The 99% suffer because of the stupid acts of a minority and it's a shame because the general public (in part thanks to the media) label all soccer fans as hooligans. This couldn't be further from the truth. I have chanted and jumped up and down with the best of them, never have I lit a firework, never have I been close to a flare, and never have I feared for my safety aside from when police on horse back were near us due to the nature of a beast that might be out of control (the smell from their faeces on the other hand was truly disgusting which gives you an idea of the timeframe they were standing there).
In the past, the ethnic's were the blame of all this, and even in today's commentary its the ethnic groups being highlighted again, but thats just an easy target. Blame the ethnics, push them out of the game, and problem solved. Trouble is, the issues still occur, by different set of fans. Why? Because this element is not even being managed correctly. Never has been managed correctly and never will be managed correctly because despite all the footage that they currently have in stadiums, the fans are never banned from matches, or at least searched prior to entering the gates.
Does anyone seriously believe we'd ever have a system where violent offenders are subjected to violence in order to curb their violent behaviour....1014 maybe not 2014.
Ever seen A Clockwork Orange? ;D
Interesting movie
Great piece of fiction ;)
So Lodsie, I know you've worked in prisons and what not for a long time. Have you never at least felt the urge or the thought cross your mind to kick them up their defiant arses?
Never Gozz
Because once you lose control in that situation..... You've lost big time....and that can be career ending, or even worse, leave you open to charges yourself.
Defiant behaviour is often designed for exactly that purpose..... to get under your skin.
So you separate the behaviour from the individual...and never take things personally.
You see for many of these guys (and girls) the expectation is that if they're abusive and defiant you'll react physically...that's what happens at home.
They can't cope with someone who stays calm and doesn't react.
It unbalances them....and it's effective because in most cases you have control.
If not.... it buys time until your support staff arrive.
(I will add that support in the custodial settings I've worked in has always been pretty good...duress alarms and radios are worn and assistance is always pretty prompt.)
Spot on... Capt. LODS.
As mentioned previously I worked for a short period about 25 years ago in a female 'correctional facility'. The girls were under the age of 18. It was especially challenging at times because so many of the girls were in there after being sexually violated by males, about my age (at that time). What you write is exactly the best approach ...especially being the only male 'youth worker' at the place. Gaining trust was the major goal.
And
GozzMan, I never ever felt like kicking any of them in the @rse. When you learn the 'human' story of most folks in 'correctional facilities' compassion, education, strong therapy and understanding become the dominant factors. People I know who deal with refugees report a very similar situation... when you know the real 'human' story, so much changes. Probably explains why governments, especially conservative governments, seek to demonise refugees... if we knew the 'human' story...
Well I can tell you right here right now that if one of those soccer farkwits came up to me looking for trouble, I'd be all for breaking the sh1thead in half. "Sue me, I'm not worth sh1t" ;D
I think we're talking about two different things...youre both talking about prison, and while i asked the question and agree with what's been said im broadly referring to the soccer hooligans. Not sure youd have the chance to counsel the situation if one of them came violently to knock your head off.
Problem is Gozz.... it might not just be a case of suing you.
Hit someone in the wrong place or have them hit their head while they fall and you're off to gaol.
I'm not sure whether the King hit/ Cowardly hit debate is getting the same attention in your part of the world but a series of attacks in NSW, where young fellows have been seriously injured or killed in recent times have the general populace (and the politicians) baying for blood.
It's not a time to get involved in a street brawl.
...and to highlight that...as we speak (write)......
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/01/06/11/28/league-player-pleads-guilty-to-assault
Mr Grogan labelled Packer's behaviour "cowardly and deplorable" and said the result could have been much worse.
"The person fell to the ground and luckily it would appear did not suffer those injuries seen in media reports as of late," Mr Grogan said.
"There was potential for that, Mr Packer.
"You added fuel to the fire by attacking a man lying motionless on the ground, punching him and then standing up and stomping on his head."
Mr Grogan said that the public was sick and tired of the behaviour Packer showed that night.
Problem is Gozz.... it might not just be a case of suing you.
Hit someone in the wrong place or have them hit their head while they fall and you're off to gaol.
I'm not sure whether the King hit/ Cowardly hit debate is getting the same attention in your part of the world but a series of attacks in NSW, where young fellows have been seriously injured or killed in recent times have the general populace (and the politicians) baying for blood.
It's not a time to get involved in a street brawl.
I understand that, and it's all fair enough. Sometimes smashing someone in self defence is the way to go if it means you don't get belted up yourself.
I'm not sure whether alcohol was involved in these fans behaviour, but I think thats where the (broader) problem lies, in regards to violence (in particular between young men)
There was a recent program done in Newcastle which may go some way in addressing the problem, I'll leave it for you to decide. I refer you here: http://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/agdbasev7wr/bocsar/documents/pdf/cjb137.pdf
Some important points include:
-There were corresponding increases in the proportion of assaults recorded earlier in the night but, with the exception of CAD data, these did not wholly offset the reduction occurring between 3am and 6am. This is an important point to note because one argument against restrictions in hotel trading hours is that assaults will simply be temporally displaced toward earlier times in the evening. The current study provides strong evidence against such a conclusion.
-There was no significant increase or decrease in recorded assaults in Hamilton or in the premises that were not subject to the intervention, which suggests that there was no evidence of any displacement
to the other late-night entertainment
areas in Newcastle.
The cost of alcohol and violence is becoming a cost that society can no longer bear, on an economic basis alone, let alone the real life impacts on families, friends, communities.
We live in one of the most amazing countries in the world. People don't need alcohol in Australia to have a good time. Be thankful for it.
Your correct Tex. You don't need alcohol in Australia to have a good time. At the same time aggressive and angry sporting supporters don't need alcohol to be violent. People with natural hate for others and an aggressive nature show their true colours sober or intoxicated. In fact they can be at their most dangerous when they are sober. Its a very hard issue to address In Australia quite a few years ago there was a different issue. Most of the soccer clubs had a dominant race amongst the players. The team colours at times too.
It was races against races and the supporters followed the race more than the club. Similar to a Croatian tennis player playing a Serbian player. There would be trouble before a game involving these two races of supporters against each other. South Melbourne Hellas as an example was a Greek soccer club. If they were to play against a former Yugoslav Macedonian side there could be potential trouble. I am wondering if this is still the case here with the soccer clubs still. I'm not claiming to have any answers or to be preaching any points here, but soccer has always had a racial tension to teams playing each other.
The addition to alcohol just fuelled the issue more than it needed to be. Its similar to gangs here in Australia and world wide. Sometimes its just groups that hate each other for no particular reason, and other times its races that hate each other based on something that may have happened in wars years ago. Sometimes hundreds of years ago, if not more. Sometimes its based on a races religious beliefs. I'm not being racist or singling out races here either. I followed Footscray Just years ago. My cousin played for Preston Macedonia. I always got on really well with the Hellas fans at any matches I have watched, because I am part Serbian which makes me Orthodox belief, which is what the majority of Greek fans religious belief is. Melbourne Croatia fans would be ones I would avoid because of past racial tension in the original homeland, and the fact that it is Catholic vs Orthodox.
Sometimes its just stupidity, and revenge on a scuffle in a past match. Sometimes its just stupidity on the day with hot heads who can't control their anger over a loss or a draw. I hope its not the above I have posted. Years ago there were cases where this was an issue. I hope it still doesn't exist, but many factors could be something that the leagues should look into. I hope I haven't offended any here with the above, or made this look like its something it probably isn't. Whatever it is it needs to be addressed. It hade potential to be so much worse years ago when the teams were different. By name, title, and supporters racial backgrounds. Just my view, and something to think about. That's why I hardly follow the sport here in Australia now. Been close to a few too many close calls at matches in the past. ;)
Your correct Tex. You don't need alcohol in Australia to have a good time.
I have a different philosophy and a very simple rule to live by: if you can't handle your grog, stay away from it. Simple. :)
Too many d1ckbrains getting on the piss who can't handle it.
Your correct Tex. You don't need alcohol in Australia to have a good time.
I have a different philosophy and a very simple rule to live by: if you can't handle your grog, stay away from it. Simple. :)
Too many d1ckbrains getting on the piss who can't handle it.
Very, very good point, and don't go out in public if you know you get angry easily. In fact don't trust your own judgement. Ask your friend if you are a flog or not. If he says you can behave like a prick at times, stay home and watch your sports on the TV. Either this or book yourself in for anger management classes.
Your correct Tex. You don't need alcohol in Australia to have a good time.
I have a different philosophy and a very simple rule to live by: if you can't handle your grog, stay away from it. Simple. :)
Too many d1ckbrains getting on the piss who can't handle it.
Thats the issue though, isn't it? People don't know when the stop - they are not capable of knowing when they can, or cannot handle it.
I think we all speak from experience there. So, what I suggested in the last post was some external force being placed upon people to curb the violence...curb the point at which people become so far gone (which the study suggests is post 3am iirc)
Your correct Tex. You don't need alcohol in Australia to have a good time.
I have a different philosophy and a very simple rule to live by: if you can't handle your grog, stay away from it. Simple. :)
Too many d1ckbrains getting on the piss who can't handle it.
Very, very good point, and don't go out in public if you know you get angry easily. In fact don't trust your own judgement. Ask your friend if you are a flog or not. If he says you can behave like a prick at times, stay home and watch your sports on the TV. Either this or book yourself in for anger management classes.
But this is silly, it does not happen.
You're asking a 19-29 yo male to enrol himself in anger management classes.
You might as well de-ball him while you're at it.
Alco-pops tax was nice in theory - but seemed to have backfired in that twelvies now buy their own spirits and mix it (incorrectly) getting even more hammered than what they were before.
Your correct Tex. You don't need alcohol in Australia to have a good time.
I have a different philosophy and a very simple rule to live by: if you can't handle your grog, stay away from it. Simple. :)
Too many d1ckbrains getting on the piss who can't handle it.
Very, very good point, and don't go out in public if you know you get angry easily. In fact don't trust your own judgement. Ask your friend if you are a flog or not. If he says you can behave like a prick at times, stay home and watch your sports on the TV. Either this or book yourself in for anger management classes.
But this is silly, it does not happen.
You're asking a 19-29 yo male to enrol himself in anger management classes.
You might as well de-ball him while you're at it.
Alco-pops tax was nice in theory - but seemed to have backfired in that twelvies now buy their own spirits and mix it (incorrectly) getting even more hammered than what they were before.
What about 10 dollar cask wine? ;D
And people will come in suggesting that harsher penalties are necessary and judges are soft blah blah blah.
I think, what needs to be considered, is if you send someone to jail for knocking someone out when they're drunk then;
-you're placing - usually quite (soberly) decent people in an environment where they may be further corrupted and may come out worse than before
- you're placing a huge economic burden on the state
- you're not addressing the problem - an addiction to, or inability to handle alcohol. Drunk people won't think "Oh I went to jail over this last year, I better not knock him out this time."
Jail is not an option for these guys.
Your correct Tex. You don't need alcohol in Australia to have a good time.
I have a different philosophy and a very simple rule to live by: if you can't handle your grog, stay away from it. Simple. :)
Too many d1ckbrains getting on the piss who can't handle it.
Very, very good point, and don't go out in public if you know you get angry easily. In fact don't trust your own judgement. Ask your friend if you are a flog or not. If he says you can behave like a prick at times, stay home and watch your sports on the TV. Either this or book yourself in for anger management classes.
But this is silly, it does not happen.
You're asking a 19-29 yo male to enrol himself in anger management classes.
You might as well de-ball him while you're at it.
Alco-pops tax was nice in theory - but seemed to have backfired in that twelvies now buy their own spirits and mix it (incorrectly) getting even more hammered than what they were before.
What about 10 dollar cask wine? ;D
Christ, people only need try that once to never do it again.
::
I think its a culture thing... Probably take another couple of generations to change. Other countries - like Germany - can drink a lot, but don't put up with such idiotic behaviour like we do. Personally, I think it will - with appropriate education in the community - go the way of smoking, and people will be socially ostracised when they become drunken idiots.
Tex. I love ya to bits. Please understand that drinking might not be the only key issue here. Sure violence is more common with the consumption with alcohol. However those that are naturally mean and angry, and with issues do not need alcohol to tip them off to be nasty aggressive people. In fact to take all alcohol off the shelves would only push them to take exotic drugs as your study shows. I understand your studies. I understand the figures. Do we blame every action on what people have taken ? Alcohol doesn't make a mild mannered citizen a violent killer. Its their basic nature that does.
Idiots don't need a trigger at all times, its just something that helps set them off. How many of us know many happy drunks that have great natures and just laugh when they are heavily under the influence of the amber fluid. Alcohol doesn't stop the problem at all times. Sure it helps but we need to get deep down to the real issues. I know you said anger management against 19 to 29 year old males means taking away their balls in the process. Something along those lines anyway. Their violent behaviour needs to be put in line. Not just their drinking habbits. Why do I say this ? Give them some and then watch them go. Then you will see some real trouble. What you ingest doesn't always make you a prick. If your a prick, you need help.
Influences in our systems bring out the worst in us as humans. Drugs don't make us evil. What we are makes us what we are because of what we have learned to become. Yes we gat a little foolish at times but our own education and experiences as children moulds us to be what we really are. Nice people, primitive animals, or just plain pricks. Don't blame substances all the time. A prick is a prick sober or under the influence of any drug. Sorry Tex not going against you because I understand your point, but looking at the cost to society means any lives saved, or any harm removed is the ultimate solution.
Educate the youth as best you can, and punish those that cross the line. Its a never win situation, but like the road toll it van be minimised. They increased the penalties for drink driving and for all the road offences. They put more police on the roads we drive. Hence our road toll is as low as it was back something like 15 to 20 years when we had 5 million lees population. It comes at a cost, but how much do put on a human life. When you say cost its a dollar value, but when a person dies what dollar value is the to the community, state, or federal government. What is a human life worth dead, or seriously damaged for their entire life ?
Sorry Tex its like I am having a go at you, but I really am not. I just hate this issue where we point the blame. The blame at what ? Idiots ? Or do we justify their behaviour on what they take ?
Top post Mantis. Very well said
My mates reckon I am an absolute scream when I get pissed. ;D
Tex. I love ya to bits. Please understand that drinking might not be the only key issue here. Sure violence is more common with the consumption with alcohol. However those that are naturally mean and angry, and with issues do not need alcohol to tip them off to be nasty aggressive people. In fact to take all alcohol off the shelves would only push them to take exotic drugs as your study shows. I understand your studies. I understand the figures. Do we blame every action on what people have taken ? Alcohol doesn't make a mild mannered citizen a violent killer. Its their basic nature that does.
I understand that each person is different but.....the alcoholics that I know are tremendous people with hearts of gold.....until they get drunk. Then they're not themselves, they turn violent and aggressive. Without alcohol they are upstanding people.
Drugs are drugs, they ruin lives. Just because the government makes a shightload of $ from the sales of alcohol and therefore it is deemed socially acceptable doesn't mean it doesn't destroy lives. Let's not miss the big picture here.
What do we define as and alcoholic? Once a week? Twice a week? Several times a week?
What do we define as and alcoholic? Once a week? Twice a week? Several times a week?
Anyone with alcohol 'issues', has an alcohol problem. Frequency is not a factor, behaviour is.
What do we define as and alcoholic? Once a week? Twice a week? Several times a week?
Anyone with alcohol 'issues', has an alcohol problem. Frequency is not a factor, behaviour is.
So therefore I don't have a problem because Iddon't go out and whack people....I'm actually quite jovial. :D
What do we define as and alcoholic? Once a week? Twice a week? Several times a week?
Anyone with alcohol 'issues', has an alcohol problem. Frequency is not a factor, behaviour is.
So therefore I don't have a problem because Iddon't go out and whack people....I'm actually quite jovial. :D
True but it drains you of your ambition does it not? Prevents you from finding work or a career path to take? So in a way, your alcoholism doesn't seem to affect others around you which is a good thing but it certainly affects you.
I think what Carrots is saying is alcoholism isnt a problem for people who dont drink to get drunk.
I.e. those who enjoy a drink or two with a friend, savour the flavour and bond over a few drinks, rather than get drunk to experience a different perspective.
Up to you which you fit into Gozza. You might be able to enjoy a slab with a mate and stay relatively normal. That just means you are poisoning your body with alcohol but aside from that not doing too much wrong.
I know some people that are messy drunks, and I know others that are aggressive drunks. Sometimes they are one and the same, but usually I avoid their company because being from the category of someone who enjoys to bond over a couple of drinks eventually the other types tend to just bring you down as they stop bonding and start getting inebriated and incoherent.
Mantis, don't worry I didn't think you were having a go :)
But I agree with what Chris has said below.
And, well, what I got out of the study is that if you take alcohol out of the picture (at certain times of night) then the violence will be less.
Of course, as you have rightly said, there will always be violence, but if we can lessen that violence through the prohibition of alcohol at certain times, then let's do it.
Tex. I love ya to bits. Please understand that drinking might not be the only key issue here. Sure violence is more common with the consumption with alcohol. However those that are naturally mean and angry, and with issues do not need alcohol to tip them off to be nasty aggressive people. In fact to take all alcohol off the shelves would only push them to take exotic drugs as your study shows. I understand your studies. I understand the figures. Do we blame every action on what people have taken ? Alcohol doesn't make a mild mannered citizen a violent killer. Its their basic nature that does.
I understand that each person is different but.....the alcoholics that I know are tremendous people with hearts of gold.....until they get drunk. Then they're not themselves, they turn violent and aggressive. Without alcohol they are upstanding people.
What do we define as and alcoholic? Once a week? Twice a week? Several times a week?
Anyone with alcohol 'issues', has an alcohol problem. Frequency is not a factor, behaviour is.
So therefore I don't have a problem because Iddon't go out and whack people....I'm actually quite jovial. :D
True but it drains you of your ambition does it not? Prevents you from finding work or a career path to take? So in a way, your alcoholism doesn't seem to affect others around you which is a good thing but it certainly affects you.
But it does affect others around him, because they have to support him if he is unable to study or work or when he needs a new liver and is in hospital. Eventually, the rest have to pay.
I.e. those who enjoy a drink or two with a friend, savour the flavour and bond over a few drinks, rather than get drunk to experience a different perspective.
Up to you which you fit into Gozza. You might be able to enjoy a slab with a mate and stay relatively normal. That just means you are poisoning your body with alcohol but aside from that not doing too much wrong.
I like to drink both with people and by myself. If it's during the week it's almost always alone. On the weekend when more people are around it's with friends. Always to get blind or nothing....and we all enjoy it over a BBQ or whatever most weekends in summer and in the winter at the footy or local footy. We never share a slab...I usually polish off one by myself. ;D There's never any serious trouble either. In short, we can all drink and put away a sh1tload and handle it. Grog's not an exclusive excuse for stomping on a bloke's head or king-hitting someone, but if the person can't handle it, it's a dangerous combination.
Well their is only one real solution for this alcohol problem with soccer fans. We have to enforce a ban immediately. We ban soccer and the problem will just go away. ;)
Why does everyone think alcohol is involved? These people are just gutless idiots that gain courage from being in numbers drunk or not.
Why does everyone think alcohol is involved? These people are just gutless idiots that gain courage from being in numbers drunk or not.
I tried to hint this outcome, but most claim nice people become gutless idiots when drunk. Otherwise a gathering of drunks would have all of them attempting to kill each other in a crowd. New Years Eve would become a slaughter yard. Like a long past civil war. I guess the boys nights out I have had with a dozen or more friends all drunk should have had 10 of us spend a night in hospital, yet only one or two of them were ever trouble at any one time. They were the ones that were super polite when sober and usually quiet in nature. Yet if someone they didn't know looked at them they would approach them and say "What are you looking at, are you looking for trouble"? Creating a heated moment and suggesting a fight. Drinking just made this even worse, because everyone was in their target scope.
Not saying drinking isn't an issue in society, but a rotten egg is a rotten egg at any time of the day, and in any state of mind, sober or drunk. Just remember back to senior school days, and the so called tough guys who walked around in groups and singled people out who they beat up on. They were not drunk at the time they acted in such a way. If anything give these people some speed and watch them behave. Just my thoughts, but I do understand those that feel alcohol is an issue in any part of society. They have reason to believe so based on past history of issues in the streets.
Banning might work. Bit different in this example but when I was in primary school I got banned from school excursions because I couldn't behave myself. ;D
Not saying drinking isn't an issue in society, but a rotten egg is a rotten egg at any time of the day, and in any state of mind, sober or drunk.
And I just provided you with examples where the rotten egg is the alcohol. Each person is different no doubt.
I reckon when you're pissed the inner person comes out.
I reckon when you're pissed the inner person comes out.
Alcohol lowers inhibitions and so you are right Gozz. If there's a bad egg in there alcohol will certainly help it to get out by removing/lowering any control the person may have over it.
I reckon when you're pissed the inner person comes out.
Nup, it's the opposite in fact, you are far from what is considered to be your normal self.
I reckon when you're pissed the inner person comes out.
Alcohol lowers inhibitions and so you are right Gozz. If there's a bad egg in there alcohol will certainly help it to get out by removing/lowering any control the person may have over it.
Yep and that's why I don't get on the piss with people who are generally sh1t natured at the best of times. Known a few like that. One swung at me several times so i defended myself and we havent been on the piss together since. ;D
I reckon when you're pissed the inner person comes out.
Nup, it's the opposite in fact, you are far from what is considered to be your normal self.
:(
I reckon when you're pissed the inner person comes out.
Nup, it's the opposite in fact, you are far from what is considered to be your normal self.
:(
Well think about it, if you're smashed you don't even really know what you're doing.
I reckon when you're pissed the inner person comes out.
Nup, it's the opposite in fact, you are far from what is considered to be your normal self.
:(
Well think about it, if you're smashed you don't even really know what you're doing.
It depends really. I've been on here pretty maggoted several times and have still been able to type correctly. So I've known how to use a computer and type.
Carrots & Gozza
Everyone is different the way they react when they have alcohol in their system but I tend to agree with the Gozz man in regards to the inner self coming out
Some get loud, some emotional, some violent etc
In regards to the d1ckheads at the soccer they probably are looking for trouble before they head off to the soccer & get full of p!ss
I've been on here (not recently) after a fair few and no one would know
Without booze and fighting, there would be no soccer. During those incredibly tedious matches, the European fans would freeze and the rest of the world would be bored stupid. Alcohol is literally the only thing that makes the sport tolerable.
Not all boring sports lead to mindless violence!
The behavior of soccer fans is too easily dismissed by blaming booze, drugs or other influences.
In any case I understand some of the recent behavior allegedly came from events surrounding a specific ethnic group that supposedly fundamentally bans alcohol on religious grounds. Such is the irony that the recent violence flared up at a pub, and so much for the values and effectiveness of that religion!
There is no escaping this is an ethnicity issue and nothing to do with sport at all!
Sports violence is just the disguise that the discrimination and racism wears to allow it to come out in public!
The attack on soccer coincides with a world cup year.
It must be that the game is boring or intolerable, maybe its the ethnics, maybe its just that some people are ignorant. At the end of the day, intolerance is the issue.
http://www.themercury.com.au/news/breaking-news/footy-fans-attacked-in-vic-after-afl-match/story-fnj6ehgr-1226715120204
It cant be that some people are just complete and utter knobs now, can it?
The attack on soccer coincides with a world cup year.
It must be that the game is boring or intolerable, maybe its the ethnics, maybe its just that some people are ignorant. At the end of the day, intolerance is the issue.
http://www.themercury.com.au/news/breaking-news/footy-fans-attacked-in-vic-after-afl-match/story-fnj6ehgr-1226715120204
It cant be that some people are just complete and utter knobs now, can it?
Or intoxicated after drinking too much? Surely not!!
Or maybe they lost their money on the pokies earlier in the day ;D
Or maybe they lost their money on the pokies earlier in the day ;D
And can't afford another pack of smokes? Strong possibilities.
A few nights ago when I got pissed, I couldn't stop laughing. ;D ;D
I reckon when you're pissed the inner person comes out.
Alcohol lowers inhibitions and so you are right Gozz. If there's a bad egg in there alcohol will certainly help it to get out by removing/lowering any control the person may have over it.
People spend their entire days working and being in a social environment where they learn to control their angry side that has a certain amount of patience and self control. They come to Little Athletics and their kids have a bad day and they rip into them like they are about to kill them. It happens at little league footy too. Sober adults. Just fly off tap at something most of us would just shake our heads at. They behave for hours but when they feel enough is enough they lose their control. It doesn't take much of any known substance to lower their ability to keep their control. However genuine nice people have events where they drink too much and just become a person that can't stop laughing and not want to have confrontation in any state of mind they are in. Otherwise alcohol would be assumed to turn all of us into natural born killers.
Not all boring sports lead to mindless violence!
The behavior of soccer fans is too easily dismissed by blaming booze, drugs or other influences.
In any case I understand some of the recent behavior allegedly came from events surrounding a specific ethnic group that supposedly fundamentally bans alcohol on religious grounds. Such is the irony that the recent violence flared up at a pub, and so much for the values and effectiveness of that religion!
There is no escaping this is an ethnicity issue and nothing to do with sport at all!
Sports violence is just the disguise that the discrimination and racism wears to allow it to come out in public!
Onto something, Spotted Large Feline.
A volatile mix - passionate ethnicity (fuelled by centuries of conflict, anger and distrust), frustratingly limited scoring, limited intelligence and grog = what we see.
...and another thing. Soccer players are probably amongst the most wimpish of all the ball sport combatants - a slight knock to the knee and you'll see them fall to the ground and cry like a 4 year old with a grazed knee. In fact, this is a sport that would be better played by women as they'd be way less sooky than the boys. >:D
After a few pages of discussion, I think the one thing we can all unianimously agree on here: getting pissed is grouse. ;D
Not all boring sports lead to mindless violence!
The behavior of soccer fans is too easily dismissed by blaming booze, drugs or other influences.
In any case I understand some of the recent behavior allegedly came from events surrounding a specific ethnic group that supposedly fundamentally bans alcohol on religious grounds. Such is the irony that the recent violence flared up at a pub, and so much for the values and effectiveness of that religion!
There is no escaping this is an ethnicity issue and nothing to do with sport at all!
Sports violence is just the disguise that the discrimination and racism wears to allow it to come out in public!
Onto something, Spotted Large Feline.
A volatile mix - passionate ethnicity (fuelled by centuries of conflict, anger and distrust), frustratingly limited scoring, limited intelligence and grog = what we see.
...and another thing. Soccer players are probably amongst the most wimpish of all the ball sport combatants - a slight knock to the knee and you'll see them fall to the ground and cry like a 4 year old with a grazed knee. In fact, this is a sport that would be better played by women as they'd be way less sooky than the boys. >:D
garbage. Complete utter racist drivel.
The bit about soccer players being soft is likewise drivel.
Would be like us baptising footy players as soft based on Matthew Lloyd's free kicks.
They only go down to win free kicks. Hence the miraculous recovery.
After a few pages of discussion, I think the one thing we can all unianimously agree on here: getting pissed is grouse. ;D
GozzMan... you're sinking back into your old ways. Getting pissed is not grouse... in fact it is grandly dumb; a vehicle to early death; stupid and how to validate every negative opinion of you as seen by others.
GozzMan... your sober contributions here are.... well, 'contributions!'.
But... Mate... your alcohol fueled contributions/promotions only paint you (likely, unfairly) as a bona fide c0ckhead.
Forget commenting on and talking about alcohol and give us more sober footy stuff, please. In fact, impose a ban upon yourself when pissed to post anything.
Not all boring sports lead to mindless violence!
The behavior of soccer fans is too easily dismissed by blaming booze, drugs or other influences.
In any case I understand some of the recent behavior allegedly came from events surrounding a specific ethnic group that supposedly fundamentally bans alcohol on religious grounds. Such is the irony that the recent violence flared up at a pub, and so much for the values and effectiveness of that religion!
There is no escaping this is an ethnicity issue and nothing to do with sport at all!
Sports violence is just the disguise that the discrimination and racism wears to allow it to come out in public!
Onto something, Spotted Large Feline.
A volatile mix - passionate ethnicity (fuelled by centuries of conflict, anger and distrust), frustratingly limited scoring, limited intelligence and grog = what we see.
...and another thing. Soccer players are probably amongst the most wimpish of all the ball sport combatants - a slight knock to the knee and you'll see them fall to the ground and cry like a 4 year old with a grazed knee. In fact, this is a sport that would be better played by women as they'd be way less sooky than the boys. >:D
garbage. Complete utter racist drivel.
The bit about soccer players being soft is likewise drivel.
Would be like us baptising footy players as soft based on Matthew Lloyd's free kicks.
They only go down to win free kicks. Hence the miraculous recovery.
3 Leos. Didn't you see the emoticon at the end of my stir? Tongue in cheek!!! Maybe your reaction illustrates my point >:D
That didn't look like a tongue in cheek emoticon to me Baggers.
After a few pages of discussion, I think the one thing we can all unianimously agree on here: getting pissed is grouse. ;D
GozzMan... you're sinking back into your old ways. Getting pissed is not grouse... in fact it is grandly dumb; a vehicle to early death; stupid and how to validate every negative opinion of you as seen by others.
GozzMan... your sober contributions here are.... well, 'contributions!'.
But... Mate... your alcohol fueled contributions/promotions only paint you (likely, unfairly) as a bona fide c0ckhead.
Forget commenting on and talking about alcohol and give us more sober footy stuff, please. In fact, impose a ban upon yourself when pissed to post anything.
So you are calling Gozza a very bad person. :'(
Not all boring sports lead to mindless violence!
The behavior of soccer fans is too easily dismissed by blaming booze, drugs or other influences.
In any case I understand some of the recent behavior allegedly came from events surrounding a specific ethnic group that supposedly fundamentally bans alcohol on religious grounds. Such is the irony that the recent violence flared up at a pub, and so much for the values and effectiveness of that religion!
There is no escaping this is an ethnicity issue and nothing to do with sport at all!
Sports violence is just the disguise that the discrimination and racism wears to allow it to come out in public!
Onto something, Spotted Large Feline.
A volatile mix - passionate ethnicity (fuelled by centuries of conflict, anger and distrust), frustratingly limited scoring, limited intelligence and grog = what we see.
...and another thing. Soccer players are probably amongst the most wimpish of all the ball sport combatants - a slight knock to the knee and you'll see them fall to the ground and cry like a 4 year old with a grazed knee. In fact, this is a sport that would be better played by women as they'd be way less sooky than the boys. >:D
garbage. Complete utter racist drivel.
The bit about soccer players being soft is likewise drivel.
Would be like us baptising footy players as soft based on Matthew Lloyd's free kicks.
They only go down to win free kicks. Hence the miraculous recovery.
3 Leos. Didn't you see the emoticon at the end of my stir? Tongue in cheek!!! Maybe your reaction illustrates my point >:D
Baggers, the way it reads, you agree whole heartedly with LP (who likewise spewed more racist/relion descrimination tripe) and your emoticon is for the last paragraph in which you think girls would play the sport harder.
It reads as it reads, what you meant may very well be different to how it reads, but thats precisely how it reads.
Not all boring sports lead to mindless violence!
The behavior of soccer fans is too easily dismissed by blaming booze, drugs or other influences.
In any case I understand some of the recent behavior allegedly came from events surrounding a specific ethnic group that supposedly fundamentally bans alcohol on religious grounds. Such is the irony that the recent violence flared up at a pub, and so much for the values and effectiveness of that religion!
There is no escaping this is an ethnicity issue and nothing to do with sport at all!
Sports violence is just the disguise that the discrimination and racism wears to allow it to come out in public!
Onto something, Spotted Large Feline.
A volatile mix - passionate ethnicity (fuelled by centuries of conflict, anger and distrust), frustratingly limited scoring, limited intelligence and grog = what we see.
...and another thing. Soccer players are probably amongst the most wimpish of all the ball sport combatants - a slight knock to the knee and you'll see them fall to the ground and cry like a 4 year old with a grazed knee. In fact, this is a sport that would be better played by women as they'd be way less sooky than the boys. >:D
garbage. Complete utter racist drivel.
The bit about soccer players being soft is likewise drivel.
Would be like us baptising footy players as soft based on Matthew Lloyd's free kicks.
They only go down to win free kicks. Hence the miraculous recovery.
3 Leos. Didn't you see the emoticon at the end of my stir? Tongue in cheek!!! Maybe your reaction illustrates my point >:D
Baggers, the way it reads, you agree whole heartedly with LP (who likewise spewed more racist/relion descrimination tripe) and your emoticon is for the last paragraph in which you think girls would play the sport harder.
It reads as it reads, what you meant may very well be different to how it reads, but thats precisely how it reads.
I really don't get how not liking soccer and thinking that many of their players are sooks, is racist. :o Or commenting that the ethnicity of the supporters can inflame situations, is also racist? Our Greek, Italian, Slavic, Spanish etc brothers and sisters are renowned for their passion which, like all things, has it positives and negatives. So many of my friends and clients are Greek, Italian and / or slavic... strewth, when we're together talking it looks like a pantomime with all the hands and arms waving about the place.
And I've never thought it racist or taken offense when accused of some of the things attributed to the 'stereotypical' Scandinavian.
1. Stereotypes are derogotary by definition and therfore racist. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/stereotype
2. You misunderstand, your emoticon doesnt set the tone of your post, its a cheeky emoticon added to the end of a comment UNRELATED to the part where you are discussing said stereotypes and therefore can't see you as being tongue in cheek. I initially took exception to LP's post and was happy to let it slide given it was largely disregarded for the tripe that it is and no one commented, and then you agree and add a cheeky comment on the end. Time to cut off that discussion, its not on.
3. "A volatile mix - passionate ethnicity (fuelled by centuries of conflict, anger and distrust), frustratingly limited scoring, limited intelligence and grog = what we see"
Hell, you dont have to label someone a Gorilla to be racist labelling them all as being passionately ethnic, and having limited intelligence is probably as bad. As for the grog, most of the older people I grew up with handle their grog better than most people around society today. They would get drunk and dance, not get drunk and fight. They were also more ethnic than most of the people guilty of this today given they were migrants, and not a generation or two removed from these migrants.
Violence is linked to immaturity and a sense of following the crowd in this case. Its not linked to ethnicity, its not linked to the code of sport that they have gone to. Its people frankly behaving with the thought processes you are displaying as certain elements of ethnicity being subhuman. Now given we are part of an online community here I know enough about you to know that you are not being deliberately offensive, but I do feel the need to speak up and advise that you are being offensive. Eddie Mcguire was likely as guilty of being indirectly offensive, (regardless he was being offensive) and it was right of our society to take the stance that it did, as otherwise we would only be allowing comments suited to people of "limited intelligence" to pass as normal and condonable and part of the everyday landscape of things.
My club (South Melbourne FC) was seen to be too Ethnic to be part of this competition, and I resent having been ousted from the premier level of this code, and I will rant scream and rave about the Ethnics being displayed as the problem as they are trying to re-enter the top flight (by way of merging with Melbourne Heart) and I see that this violence only fuels the agenda to exclude South Melbourne and prevent them from taking over that license. Why should we South Melbourne fans, be tarnished by the brush that these people are? Especially when its ignorant people making ignorant comments blaming the ethnics. Its not an ethnic group or religious group. The fans of Western Sydney are from a demographic of Sydney that probably coincides with lower levels of income, larger families and perhaps even lower social class (given the tradition lower, middle upper classes is what we are talking about here), and you will find that this class of people generally exhibit more violent tendencies and more social problems due to environment more than anything else. Therefore, its only right that this issue is more of class structure in our society. Blaming the Ethnics is taking a pot shot at an easy target and poor form, and I feel that so many people have glossed over that fact and simply arrived at the conclusion that migrants tend to form that part of society which is true to an extent, and untrue to another extent. Just as many migrants are part of middle classes and are not subject to the same social issues. Its likely to be linked to demographic region of where these supporters have grown up more than anything else. I digress, you will find these issues exist not because of ethnics, but due to circumstance. Simply labelling the Ethnics as being at fault is ignorant.
Thryleon just brought it.
BOOM
BTW I agree with Thry (surprise surprise) and I too agree that Baggers is not deliberately being offensive.
1. Stereotypes are derogotary by definition and therfore racist. http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/stereotype
2. You misunderstand, your emoticon doesnt set the tone of your post, its a cheeky emoticon added to the end of a comment UNRELATED to the part where you are discussing said stereotypes and therefore can't see you as being tongue in cheek. I initially took exception to LP's post and was happy to let it slide given it was largely disregarded for the tripe that it is and no one commented, and then you agree and add a cheeky comment on the end. Time to cut off that discussion, its not on.
3. "A volatile mix - passionate ethnicity (fuelled by centuries of conflict, anger and distrust), frustratingly limited scoring, limited intelligence and grog = what we see"
Hell, you dont have to label someone a Gorilla to be racist labelling them all as being passionately ethnic, and having limited intelligence is probably as bad. As for the grog, most of the older people I grew up with handle their grog better than most people around society today. They would get drunk and dance, not get drunk and fight. They were also more ethnic than most of the people guilty of this today given they were migrants, and not a generation or two removed from these migrants.
Violence is linked to immaturity and a sense of following the crowd in this case. Its not linked to ethnicity, its not linked to the code of sport that they have gone to. Its people frankly behaving with the thought processes you are displaying as certain elements of ethnicity being subhuman. Now given we are part of an online community here I know enough about you to know that you are not being deliberately offensive, but I do feel the need to speak up and advise that you are being offensive. Eddie Mcguire was likely as guilty of being indirectly offensive, (regardless he was being offensive) and it was right of our society to take the stance that it did, as otherwise we would only be allowing comments suited to people of "limited intelligence" to pass as normal and condonable and part of the everyday landscape of things.
My club (South Melbourne FC) was seen to be too Ethnic to be part of this competition, and I resent having been ousted from the premier level of this code, and I will rant scream and rave about the Ethnics being displayed as the problem as they are trying to re-enter the top flight (by way of merging with Melbourne Heart) and I see that this violence only fuels the agenda to exclude South Melbourne and prevent them from taking over that license. Why should we South Melbourne fans, be tarnished by the brush that these people are? Especially when its ignorant people making ignorant comments blaming the ethnics. Its not an ethnic group or religious group. The fans of Western Sydney are from a demographic of Sydney that probably coincides with lower levels of income, larger families and perhaps even lower social class (given the tradition lower, middle upper classes is what we are talking about here), and you will find that this class of people generally exhibit more violent tendencies and more social problems due to environment more than anything else. Therefore, its only right that this issue is more of class structure in our society. Blaming the Ethnics is taking a pot shot at an easy target and poor form, and I feel that so many people have glossed over that fact and simply arrived at the conclusion that migrants tend to form that part of society which is true to an extent, and untrue to another extent. Just as many migrants are part of middle classes and are not subject to the same social issues. Its likely to be linked to demographic region of where these supporters have grown up more than anything else. I digress, you will find these issues exist not because of ethnics, but due to circumstance. Simply labelling the Ethnics as being at fault is ignorant.
Wo... touch a nerve eh?
Okay... I'll be serious. I believe that just about all anti-social behaviour comes from the disaffected and disenfranchised and this is often perpetrated by fearful, ignorant individuals and/or groups. I'm betting that if we took the violent dudes from any sporting event (or anywhere, really) and put the microscope to their lives you'd find that their anger stems from a dysfunctional family of origin, marginalised / victimised groups based on nothing more than their race, ethnicity, political ideology or even bloody hair colour (rangers!!!), mental illness, abuse/violation and so on. The persecution and ridicule of these groups in any country is a vile ignorance that only causes misery and the innocent victims will respond by withdrawing completely (booze, drugs etc) and / or lashing out. Hell, even people suffering depression and severe anxiety are marginalised ...labelled sooks or weak or whateverthef*ck.
Sure didn't mean to offend you 3 Leos... boy, some of the best (and longest!!!) parties I've attended were with my Greek buddies, in fact I climbed off my face on Christmas eve on some top shelf Ouzo! And the lamb on the spit!!! All day, eating and drinking and laughing and dancing!
In fact, let me buy you a drink some time and we'll talk with passion about the dreadful inequities of the world... and reminisce great BlueBagger memories. And maybe delight at the terrific successes of this year :)
3 Leos. Didn't you see the emoticon at the end of my stir? Tongue in cheek!!! Maybe your reaction illustrates my point >:D
I don't understand the link between the general discussion and various posters accusing others of racism, it is tenuous at best.
It is more than valid to discuss the motives behind the real events that occurred, rather than speculate on some posters motives, it is forums like this that may contribute to a solution!
It is also fair to be skeptical of posts on both sides of the argument for any number of reasons! Some of us may have been there or had family or friends there, others may have unrelated motives!
Thryleon implied that I am a racist because I discussed that alleged "ethnic groups" initiated beating the living crap out of each other while on the piss! How he infers that I have no idea! I probably shouldn't have aired the irony I see in the situation given one groups specific religious based anti-alcohol stance! But even then I do not think that is racist, Thryleon is being too inclusive by using a definition that is too broad!
FWIW; Even if I had specifically discussed a religion or ethnicity I believe under the changes brought on by the Coalition to the discrimination act that is not racist because I was not being derogatory! The Andrew Bolt's case, by the way I am not defending Andrew Bolt as he is a knob! But in effective this removes a tool used by vexatious litigants to silence free speech!Back on events it is not the first time groups have behaved that way, and we did have had an alleged spokesmen from one of the groups at an earlier time claiming the recent events grew out of revenge for the a series of earlier assaults unrelated to soccer. What I don't know is if those unproven claims are being made to ride on the back of pre-existing soccer violence like a racist call to arms, in which case the claims are completely bogus and would clearly be racism so why wasn't he charged? Or perhaps the soccer violence was genuinely initiated as was claimed purely as an act of revenge, which would also be a clear case of an act of discrimination and / or racism so why weren't they charged? In both cases it is not the sport that is the problem!
I'll happily stick to my guns, and I will maintain my claim that the recent soccer riots have nothing or at best very very little to do with the sport at all and are just private racism and discrimination issues masquerading in public spaces under a sporting banner. I think the sporting event just provided an opportunity for a limited number of individuals to air their dirty laundry, perhaps drawing naive others into their battle in the process, which is often how bullies and cowards behave! I don't see how stating that makes me racist, and I would be very disappointed to think someone in Australia would take that stance just to win an argument!
As for Soccer's diving for frees, in AFL I see Matthew Lloyd and a couple of others as the exception which is why they stand out so clearly! Regardless, all sporting codes would be working very hard to stamp out this behavior!
SOKKAH
I don't pretend to understand all the reasons
It just seems really strange that a sport with as passionate supporters as Australian Football doesn't seem to have the same violent subculture as Australian "football" ,the soccer variety.
We have clubs with similar working class traditions, we have clubs with strong ethnic affiliations and traditions (look in the mirror ;)).
It may be as simple as this.
What we have in soccer, I suspect, is a group of folk who've tacked themselves onto the sport for the purpose of engaging in anti social behaviour.
That's the attraction, not the sport, which is secondary.
It was strong with the skinhead groups back in the 70-80s
Whereas for Australian Football folk the attraction is the game.
There's no tradition of causing strife (.......yet!)
FORZA CARLTON.
I don't pretend to understand all the reasons
It just seems really strange that a sport with as passionate supporters as Australian Football doesn't seem to have the same violent subculture as Australian "football" ,the soccer variety.
We have clubs with similar working class traditions, we have clubs with strong ethnic affiliations and traditions (look in the mirror ;)).
It may be as simple as this.
What we have in soccer, I suspect, is a group of folk who've tacked themselves onto the sport for the purpose of engaging in anti social behaviour.
That's the attraction, not the sport, which is secondary.
It was strong with the skinhead groups back in the 70-80s
Whereas for Australian Football folk the attraction is the game.
There's no tradition of causing strife (.......yet!)
I agree Lods.
It is why I will defend the purity of sport, any sport, and I refused to be silenced on issues like this. In my experience silence that results from bullying leads to oppression, and that never is or ever will be a good thing.
I don't pretend to understand all the reasons
It just seems really strange that a sport with as passionate supporters as Australian Football doesn't seem to have the same violent subculture as Australian "football" ,the soccer variety.
We have clubs with similar working class traditions, we have clubs with strong ethnic affiliations and traditions (look in the mirror ;)).
It may be as simple as this.
What we have in soccer, I suspect, is a group of folk who've tacked themselves onto the sport for the purpose of engaging in anti social behaviour.
That's the attraction, not the sport, which is secondary.
It was strong with the skinhead groups back in the 70-80s
Whereas for Australian Football folk the attraction is the game.
There's no tradition of causing strife (.......yet!)
But it was different in the past. For example I remember back in the late 80s I was at the Western oval for a Footscray game with my old man, siren goes and it's a draw. My dad quickly turns around and tells me to get out pronto and we make a hasty exit. I still remember the loud cracking sounds of fist on face and the sound of blokes hitting the deck as the whole Dougy Hawkins wing turned into a free for all fight. My old man knew there were going to be punch ons because of the draw, he didn't need to wait around and see.
I remember seeing some pi55head Essenscum bloke threaten a young kid (maybe 12-13) who was jumping outside the ground celebrating after our '99 Prelim win. He was going to smash him no doubt.
I remember attending a Melbourne vs North game in the early 90s by myself and being threatened and attacked by a group of kids perhaps a year or so younger than me. they kicked me as I walked past and threw a few punches for absolutely no reason at all other than the fact that I was an easy target.
These are just a few of MY experiences only but it goes to show it does happen, the media just aren't as keen to jump all over it as they are with soccer.
Was there not a Melbourne fan who was beaten senseless by a couple of Pies fans a few seasons back? Pretty sure no one was beaten senseless in the most recent bout of soccer hooliganism.
Then of course there's the constant racist remarks we're forced to endure week in week out.
Just saying.....
But it was different in the past. For example I remember back in the late 80s I was at the Western oval for a Footscray game with my old man, siren goes and it's a draw. My dad quickly turns around and tells me to get out pronto and we make a hasty exit. I still remember the loud cracking sounds of fist on face and the sound of blokes hitting the deck as the whole Dougy Hawkins wing turned into a free for all fight. My old man knew there were going to be punch ons because of the draw, he didn't need to wait around and see.
I remember seeing some pi55head Essenscum bloke threaten a young kid (maybe 12-13) who was jumping outside the ground celebrating after our '99 Prelim win. He was going to smash him no doubt.
I remember attending a Melbourne vs North game in the early 90s by myself and being threatened and attacked by a group of kids perhaps a year or so younger than me. they kicked me as I walked past and threw a few punches for absolutely no reason at all other than the fact that I was an easy target.
These are just a few of MY experiences only but it goes to show it does happen, the media just aren't as keen to jump all over it as they are with soccer.
Was there not a Melbourne fan who was beaten senseless by a couple of Pies fans a few seasons back? Pretty sure no one was beaten senseless in the most recent bout of soccer hooliganism.
Are you listing a bunch of disconnected and isolated events and arguing they are related to this recent and repeated systematic behavior by two very specific groups?
I would agree that the heading of this thread is too general, but I would not agree if you try to categorize the recent Bourke St event as isolated or unique.
As for the severity of the beating or the extreme behavior I doubt you can claim a high ground for soccer!
Then of course there's the constant racist remarks we're forced to endure week in week out.
Just saying.....
You write like this is mono-cultural, are only asserting that only those people who are not of your specific ethnicity can be racist?
Most of the racism I have experienced first hand flows freely in both directions and continues to do so!
No LP I was referring to racist comments at the football and highlighting that it's not as clean as some would have you believe. Had nothing to do with your comments (sheesh).
How is this recent event of hooliganism not isolated when was the most recent one prior to that? I fail to see how this is repeated systematic behaviour.
No LP I was referring to racist comments at the football and highlighting that it's not as clean as some would have you believe. Had nothing to do with your comments (sheesh).
Did anyone here claim a particular sporting supporter group was clean?
Is it valid to argue about bad behavior using other bad behavior as an example?
How is this recent event of hooliganism not isolated when was the most recent one prior to that? I fail to see how this is repeated systematic behaviour.
It had been previously linked in general media, and also allegedly in social media, via a couple of people making statements linking it to the bashing to two individuals in the Western suburbs of Sydney some time distant in the past! But as I stated, it will be very difficult to determine the causality. The claims could be spurious and designed just to hitch a ride on the soccer riot for personal reasons, but they could also be true so who knows?
What I do know is that in either case they are wrong, and the sport has nothing to do with it. So it must be the actions of individuals that come under scrutiny!
No LP I was referring to racist comments at the football and highlighting that it's not as clean as some would have you believe. Had nothing to do with your comments (sheesh).
Did anyone here claim a particular sporting supporter group was clean?
Well yes that's what I thought lodsie was alluding to. I may have been mistaken.
No LP I was referring to racist comments at the football and highlighting that it's not as clean as some would have you believe. Had nothing to do with your comments (sheesh).
Did anyone here claim a particular sporting supporter group was clean?
Well yes that's what I thought lodsie was alluding to. I may have been mistaken.
What about fans of equestrian? You don't see many all in brawls during dressage competitions.
No LP I was referring to racist comments at the football and highlighting that it's not as clean as some would have you believe. Had nothing to do with your comments (sheesh).
Did anyone here claim a particular sporting supporter group was clean?
Well yes that's what I thought lodsie was alluding to. I may have been mistaken.
What about fans of equestrian? You don't see many all in brawls during dressage competitions.
But they shoot horses don't they? ???
Clip that one "point critical" hurdle, or take one wrong step at a crucial moment, and that horses career ends in a manner that can best be described as very very abruptly!!! ;D
I suppose violence is in the eye of the beholder, anyway I'm off fishing!
No LP I was referring to racist comments at the football and highlighting that it's not as clean as some would have you believe. Had nothing to do with your comments (sheesh).
Did anyone here claim a particular sporting supporter group was clean?
Well yes that's what I thought lodsie was alluding to. I may have been mistaken.
What about fans of equestrian? You don't see many all in brawls during dressage competitions.
I was referring to Lodsie's post, nothing else.
No LP I was referring to racist comments at the football and highlighting that it's not as clean as some would have you believe. Had nothing to do with your comments (sheesh).
Did anyone here claim a particular sporting supporter group was clean?
Well yes that's what I thought lodsie was alluding to. I may have been mistaken.
What about fans of equestrian? You don't see many all in brawls during dressage competitions.
I was referring to Lodsie's post, nothing else.
I didn't say we don't have our own villains.
My grandfather was once fined 10 shillings for calling an umpire a "mongrel and a skunk" :D
We have our fair share of idiots but they usually act in isolation.
As such it doesn't draw the attention of the media.....unless a player points it out and complains or a serious injury is done.
What I was talking about was the subculture groups (gangs) that go to the football just to create trouble with little or no thought about the game.
If they're as present in AFL we don't hear a lot about them
And they're as prevalent in the A-League all of a sudden after one incident?
There have been a few famous AFL fights too. Notably a St. Kilda match that didnt get finished at Waverley because the lights went out against the Scum (i think) and an ensuing pitch invasion and all in brawl occurred back in 1996.
You dont hear about it as much, but I have seen 2 flares lit at the footy between Carlton and Essendon. Ponsford stand end of the G both on the same game.
And they're as prevalent in the A-League all of a sudden after one incident?
According to the police (or the paper ;))
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/secret-files-reveal-violent-aleague-antics-in-our-sports-capital/story-fni0fee2-1226795049093
THE ugly face of Melbourne soccer hooliganism has been revealed in secret dossiers compiled by police covering A-League games.
Reports outline regular incidents of violence and hostility directed towards rival fans and security staff.
And there is evidence of intimidation of police by the most hardcore supporters.
The same day that appeared there was a similar article regarding a Western Sydney group in the Sydney papers.
....but I'll keep an open mind on it because I know how the press work when they get hold of an issue.
Like Thry said previously, just because the media run with it mean sweet FA in reality, they've already shown themselves to be biased to a certain extent.
Was there not a Melbourne fan who was beaten senseless by a couple of Pies fans a few seasons back? Pretty sure no one was beaten senseless in the most recent bout of soccer hooliganism.
Nathan Jones' old man it was. In front of Nathan's younger brother.
Blueing happens at AFL games no doubt - but it's not to the extent where mobs are involved and it becomes a tribal smash-a-thon between two sets of supporter groups. I've been involved in a few barnies at the footy. Usually a couple of blokes have a dance, the police intervene and that's the end of it. Not uncontrollable flare-lighting and all in brawls so frequently that people might feel unsafe to go.
The incidents you have highlighted have been isolated...not cause for growing concern as it happens as the soccer.
We're very blessed as a code where two different supporters can sit next to each other at the footy and have a good time. If it was as extreme as the soccer business then that would not be possible. It's not something we want to lose as a code either.
Like Thry said previously, just because the media run with it mean sweet FA in reality, they've already shown themselves to be biased to a certain extent.
...That's true.
But lovers of the Soccer must also admit to a bit of bias too.
Just as I'm biased when it comes to AFL and will defend it strongly.
Yep that's fair enough as well. I can't separate the two personally. ;)
LIKE most Australians, I enjoy a drink on social occasions.
However, as a father and as a citizen, I'm appalled by the violent binge drinking culture that now seems so prevalent, especially at "hot spots" in our big cities.
I'm sick of the fact that alcohol-fuelled violence has turned places that should be entertainment precincts into "no-go zones".
Hospital emergency departments should not be overflowing with the victims of substance abuse every Friday and Saturday night. The media should not be full of stories about the latest casualties from our own streets.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/exclusive-prime-minister-tony-abbotts-plea-to-end-drunken-street-violence-across-australia/story-fni0cx12-1226798595843
Typical Tony Abbott. All bark, no bite. If you're going to be so vocal about an issue, have some policy plans in place to reinforce it. Otherwise he's no better than us dorks on an internet forum blueing about such a thing.
Yep that's fair enough as well. I can't separate the two personally. ;)
Fair Dinkum?
Nothing compares to Aussie Rules for mine. Nothing.
Typical Tony Abbott. All bark, no bite. If you're going to be so vocal about an issue, have some policy plans in place to reinforce it. Otherwise he's no better than us dorks on an internet forum blueing about such a thing.
Tony has a plan, it is the same plan for everything!
Tony's Front Bench(http://anthropology.ua.edu/blogs/rebeccaleon/files/2012/09/Cute-Chimpanzees.jpg)
Computer says, "No!"
Typical Tony Abbott. All bark, no bite. If you're going to be so vocal about an issue, have some policy plans in place to reinforce it. Otherwise he's no better than us dorks on an internet forum blueing about such a thing.
Tony has a plan, it is the same plan for everything!
Tony's Front Bench
(http://anthropology.ua.edu/blogs/rebeccaleon/files/2012/09/Cute-Chimpanzees.jpg)
STOP THE BOATS. ::)
Typical Tony Abbott. All bark, no bite. If you're going to be so vocal about an issue, have some policy plans in place to reinforce it. Otherwise he's no better than us dorks on an internet forum blueing about such a thing.
Tony has a plan, it is the same plan for everything!
Tony's Front Bench
(http://anthropology.ua.edu/blogs/rebeccaleon/files/2012/09/Cute-Chimpanzees.jpg)
STOP THE BOATS. ::)
He's already stopped them, GozzMan... haven't you heard??? Numbnuts (Abbott) has realised that if you don't talk about the boats then they've obviously stopped. F*cking genius.
He'll probably apply the same brilliant strategy in regard to the debt... don't talk about it and ...voila... debt erased.
Where do we get these clowns from? Seems his tactics have raised the ire of the United Nations. Ripper. Wonder who else he will offend, baffle, disappoint, delude, con and sicken before this month is up!!!
Hilarious that he calls himself a Christian yet his best buddy (Rupert) is the antichrist and his other buddy (Brandis) is chief advisor to Satan... so it has been reported / said. :)
Our soccer fans look pretty tame compared to US movie goers!
A bloke shot dead over an argument about texting in the cinema!
Interesting David Gallup's threats to take points off clubs whose fans cause trouble seems to have worked with the same two sides featuring at the same ground last night with no issues.
Too dumb to dress up as the oppo fans and cause trouble. ;D
Interesting David Gallup's threats to take points off clubs whose fans cause trouble seems to have worked with the same two sides featuring at the same ground last night with no issues.
Until someone realises they can dress up as an opposition supporter and have points removed from the enemy!
OMGGGGGGGGGGG
OMGGGGGGGGGGG
QFT
You bring the syringes and I think I can supply the EFC jumpers just for a good cause! ;) ;D
Interesting David Gallup's threats to take points off clubs whose fans cause trouble seems to have worked with the same two sides featuring at the same ground last night with no issues.
Until someone realises they can dress up as an opposition supporter and have points removed from the enemy!
Or maybe they just came to their senses?
Or maybe they just came to their senses?
Really, soccers fans!!!! :D
Or maybe they just came to their senses?
Really, soccers fans!!!! :D
Hey that's sportist! Sportism is against forum rules. :P
Really, soccers fans!!!! :D
Hey that's sportist! Sportism is against forum rules. :P
Soccer is a sport???
There is no sport to be found here! ;D
Soccer has only 1 thing going for it - history. And so many historic dudes promote it. Losers.
In present time; more relevant times, it (Soccer) fails to deliver excitement, innovation, frequent success (scores) and civilized supporters. >:D
Soccer has only 1 thing going for it - history. And so many historic dudes promote it. Losers.
In present time; more relevant times, it (Soccer) fails to deliver excitement, innovation, frequent success (scores) and civilized supporters. >:D
Absolute BS. The World Cup has clearly taken over the Olympics as the biggest most viewed world wide event. You want to talk about history talk about the future. Soccer is still growing all across the world, it's not called 'The World Game' for nothing.
Yep, time to go fishing. ;)
Yep, time to go fishing. ;)
Or should that read trolling?? :P
it's not called 'The World Game' for nothing.
Of course there's a reason - fans of the game have wanted to elevate it to special status. But is that what it's called, or is it "The Beautiful Game"? And if so, what's the reason for that? I would have thought Lingerie Football would have qualified for that name if we were looking at the name being more than puffery.
It's like saying that there's a reason that Rugby Union is the game played in Heaven. I guess the reason must be that it's the game that's played in Heaven. It must really p1ss off soccer fans when they get up there and realise they should have gone for a name that covered the afterlife rather than one that was so earthbound.
I have to say, though, that I wouldn't mind at all if everyone called soccer World Football. That would put an end to the ridiculous attempt by socceristas to own the word "football" (even though they're happy to continue using Socceroos, and FIFA continues to contain "Association Football" in its name). Adding a word or words would be an improvement, even if the one betrays more than a hint of megalomania.
They don't proclaim to own the name at all or if they do, I haven't heard it. No difference between that and AFL calling it's code football, they're all played by kicking a ball and in some cases handballing or heading it. No big deal either way I've never heard of any soccer fans bemoaning the use if the term football in AFL.
But because the administrators of soccer insist that their game should be called "football" and nothing else, the consequence is that the media are left with little choice but to differentiate other codes by adding qualifiers. You even hear it in conversations between soccer and Aussie Rules fans. In the middle of a debate I had with a soccer fan about the merits of the 2 sports, he asked me why I didn't like football. I told him I love it, and have been following the Blues for ages. He then asked me if I am a Chelsea fan!
In debating, politics or the courts, this is called framing the debate. If you can persuade people to pick up weasel words you put out there, you can often win the battle without needing to fight it. I heard an anecdote from an American lawyer who described a personal injury trial in which the parents of a boy who was badly injured in a pool sued for compensation. The pool was built with a step that went right around the pool under the level of the water. The step was quite wide, and the boy hit it when he jumped in. The trial should have been a slam dunk as blind Freddy could see the problem with that. But the defendant's lawyer started calling it a "Safety Ledge" during the trial. Before too long, even the Plaintiff's lawyer and the judge were doing likewise. Eventually, the jury sided with the defendants. How could the defendants be blamed for building a safety feature?
AFAIC "football" is a generic term which needs qualification to describe each of its forms, so IMO no particular code exclusively owns that term. Any code that tries to claim that it is the one and only true "football" is delusional.
"Soccer" is in fact a shortened version of "Association Football" which is what it was called 30 - 40 years or more ago. It's a good name and they should stick to it. ;)
AFAIC "football" is a generic term which needs qualification to describe each of its forms, so IMO no particular code exclusively owns that term. Any code that tries to claim that it is the one and only true "football" is delusional.
"Soccer" is in fact a shortened version of "Association Football" which is what it was called 30 - 40 years or more ago. It's a good name and they should stick to it. ;)
Nup. Australian Rules IS football. No other code in the world worthy of having the name.
AFAIC "football" is a generic term which needs qualification to describe each of its forms, so IMO no particular code exclusively owns that term. Any code that tries to claim that it is the one and only true "football" is delusional.
"Soccer" is in fact a shortened version of "Association Football" which is what it was called 30 - 40 years or more ago. It's a good name and they should stick to it. ;)
Nup. Australian Rules IS football. No other code in the world worthy of having the name.
Why is "handball" such a feature of the game then Gozz? ;)
Is Aussie Rules the only code of football in which you can only score a goal (or a maximum point result) with a kick of a the footy? In Soccer, any part of the body other than the arms or hands can do the honours and headers are common; in both Rugby codes, you can't kick a try, and the same goes for a touchdown in American Football; in Gaelic Football, you can bundle the ball under the cross bar using any part of the body, IIRC. Am I missing any?
"Kicking" in AFL though Mav means use of the leg below the knee does it not? So you can "shin" a goal - whether that's use of the foot is debatable I would think = more "attempted use of the foot".
Don't think that matters, Cookie. Can you imagine a defendant saying, "I didn't kick him, your Honour - I got him with my shin and not my foot!"
But we were talking about kicking goals Mav, not assaulting people and being brought before the beak! :))
Is riotous mob behavior all this sport of soccer has to offer, if so it should be banned!
Flares, fighting, drunken louts, fake injuries, racial discrimination, poor excuses, spoiled brats and boring matches.
I don't need to listen to the words of defense from the sports executive, or it's fans. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions of A-League fans marching "En Masse" is appalling! Worse than the Colliwobble march to "The G" which itself is pathetic, discriminatory and divisive!
That I allege is a summary of the A-League!
Is riotous mob behavior all that sport has to offer, if so it should be banned!
Flares, fighting, drunken louts, fake injuries, racial discrimination, poor excuses, spoiled brats and boring matches.
That I allege is a summary of the A-League!
You forgot stupid team names, and crappy haircuts.
Is riotous mob behavior all that sport has to offer, if so it should be banned!
Flares, fighting, drunken louts, fake injuries, racial discrimination, poor excuses, spoiled brats and boring matches.
That I allege is a summary of the A-League!
You forgot stupid team names, and crappy haircuts.
Yeah because the Dockers, the Giants and the Power for example are just fantastic team names lol.
Not to mention the knobby haircuts of players like Brodie Grundy and half the Scum side....
Is riotous mob behavior all that sport has to offer, if so it should be banned!
Flares, fighting, drunken louts, fake injuries, racial discrimination, poor excuses, spoiled brats and boring matches.
That I allege is a summary of the A-League!
You forgot stupid team names, and crappy haircuts.
Yeah because the Dockers, the Giants and the Power for example are just fantastic team names lol.
Not to mention the knobby haircuts of players like Brodie Grundy and half the Scum side....
Dyson Heppell and Michael Hurley say hi!
Ed Curnow has had moments where you wonder what was going through his head regarding dodgy hairstyles.
Some of the beards have been very questionable also.