Disgraceful, heartless, nothing has changed.
Disgraceful, heartless, nothing has changed.
Your wrong for once. It has changed. We are getting worse, not better. An away side we can usually beat is flogging us.
Mmm Mick reckons our window is at 11 o'clock. AM or PM Mick.
We conceded 6 goals twice in less than two quarters worth of football. Did that really just happen. Tell me that didn't really happen.
First year in a long time I have zero expectations for this side. Same crap different bucket. A lot of good football. Concede goals on will.
Lucky I no longer give a stuff. Port are average. They made us look second rate.
walker is dumb footballer
Such a poor poor defender. Exposed time and time again overhead by players inches shorter than him. Unreliable under pressure.
WTF was Yarran moved to the forwardline for in the last quarter?
We conceded 6 goals twice in less than two quarters worth of football. Did that really just happen. Tell me that didn't really happen.
It happened. And the lord help us it doesn't happen next game again. Remember they got beaten by GCS and will be out for blood. We will just go about business the same as we did this game. No real urgency.
First year in a long time I have zero expectations for this side. Same crap different bucket. A lot of good football. Concede goals on will.
Lucky I no longer give a stuff. Port are average. They made us look second rate.
I reckon that pretty much sums me up too. What a way to start the year.
if we play either WB or GWS next week
we'd get flogged.
We have gone backwards hard - its official
Ed Curnow you rock. Only wish you had half the ability of a few of the others.
22 points up at 1/4 time & then lose by 33 points, that's a 55 point turnaround, simply unacceptable on all levels.
I should of watched Fat Tony & Co instead, at least he has a crack !!
Kreuzer useless as a forward.
McInnes makes poor decisions. Why do we persist with defenders that make poor decisions?
I can't believe we managed to sustain that first quarter pressure for all of one quarter. Amazing.
Your wrong for once. It has changed. We are getting worse, not better.
For a club that doesn't rebuild we have been rebuilding for 15 years!
First year in a long time I have zero expectations for this side. Same crap different bucket. A lot of good football. Concede goals on will.
Lucky I no longer give a stuff. Port are average. They made us look second rate.
I think we are all becoming bored with this club & team, it is the same stuff every year, nothing changes. 1995 seems like a lifetime ago now.
I'll be watching the a Richmond game from home.
Tonight we made "A Rabbit in the Headlights" look like a VC recipient!
7 goals to 1 in the last quarter is a joke. This game leaves me feeling 11th will be a good finish in the end. A side we beat more often than not, and they had to travel. Plus we were 4 goals up in the second quarter. I can't see anything positive from this game. Nothing at all. I don't want to think about the Tigers after their loss in our next game. I am going to pencil in a loss already in my tipping to not loose position on the tipping ladder.
if we play either WB or GWS next week
we'd get flogged.
We have gone backwards hard - its official
So, given that Malthouse has said we can't challenge for a flag in his current contract, do we sack him now, start a full blown rebuild or both?
Was Sqibbs playing the last half?
Was it me or did any of the players give a two hoots about that jumper they were wearing, none of the deserve to be wearing it in our 150th year.
They all love it when the going is good but just don't want to step it up when it start Turning to crap.
All waiting for the other bloke to make it happen. Shiiiit.
Disappointed... I think It's time to play the kids whenever their fitness permits.
Hate to keep harping on it, but I felt McLean was central in some key turnovers when we had momentum.
After Rnd 2 we will be sitting on the bottom of the ladder with Collingwood, that tells us something!
700k a year for MM's mate
we need a back line FFS
been saying this sh1te for 4 years
let eddie go cause we wouldn't pay 50k more per year
that's a good move
That's it for me, we won't progress with Malthouse as coach. The list is good enough but the gameplan is outdated and the coach can't respond to the opposition's tactics.
That poor attack on marking contest by the captain ( in last Q) was also a key turning point
if we play either WB or GWS next week
we'd get flogged.
We have gone backwards hard - its official
So, given that Malthouse has said we can't challenge for a flag in his current contract, do we sack him now, start a full blown rebuild or both?
what i'd hate is he coaches at the expense of development and for a contract extension
That poor attack on marking contest by the captain ( in last Q) was also a key turning point
Murphy backing out of that marking contest inside 50? Crucial turnover he reminded me of Triple H backing out of the ring when 'Big Poppa Pump' Scott Steiner punk carded him! Super weak effort from the captain. Wasn't Han Solo there though.
That's it for me, we won't progress with Malthouse as coach. The list is good enough but the gameplan is outdated and the coach can't respond to the opposition's tactics.
This was always the fear when he was appointed, he has a decade old game plan that teams have documented and categorised. They unpick his plans like opening a zip lock bag!
Will Walker and Robinson get weeks?
I friggen hope they both get 10.
That's it for me, we won't progress with Malthouse as coach. The list is good enough but the gameplan is outdated and the coach can't respond to the opposition's tactics.
Out coached and outplayed.
Hinkley said at the start they will play 1st gamers because that is how the team gets better. What do we do? Keep churning out the same shiiit over and over again.
Will Walker and Robinson get weeks?
I friggen hope they both get 10.
Walks yes, Robbo no.
Shown up in the fitness stakes.
Couldn't maintain the first quarter defensive efforts.
Skills then fall away.
Tackles drop off a cliff.
But we still could have won so maybe we have some hope.
Tackles drop off a cliff.
.
Oh we tackle? I saw Robby Gray shrug off McInnes like he was 110kg monster. Oh and McInees should never wear a navy blue jumper again. I was so so wrong about him when I said he was a good footballer and could be a future captain.
Shown up in the fitness stakes.
Couldn't maintain the first quarter defensive efforts.
Skills then fall away.
Tackles drop off a cliff.
But we still could have won so maybe we have some hope.
Take the rose coloured glasses off 79!
Can they suspend Malthouse, we might have a chance!
Rnd 2 the only thing in our favour is Hardwick, who is probably equally ineffective but with less experience!
Cant believe the complete lack of spirit this mob display, this goes back to Pagen, we've never recovered, instead of hating and hurting, this lot shrug their shoulders and accept another paycheque. I am seriously considering giving this lot away, and I've been a true blue since 1970. This hurts me, I don't think anyone out there tonight gives a toss. :-\
if we play either WB or GWS next week
we'd get flogged.
We have gone backwards hard - its official
So, given that Malthouse has said we can't challenge for a flag in his current contract, do we sack him now, start a full blown rebuild or both?
what i'd hate is he coaches at the expense of development and for a contract extension
Seems to be what he's trying to do but can't even get that right. Last year was a complete waste and this year will be no different. I can't remember the last time I cared less about a loss than I do about this one.
That's it for me, we won't progress with Malthouse as coach. The list is good enough but the gameplan is outdated and the coach can't respond to the opposition's tactics.
The list is not good enough, otherwise we would have been better than we have in the last 4 years. Our good players are not great AFL players. They do some good things from time to time but not are genuine A graders. Our back half are not good enough, McInnes, Walker & Watson were woeful. The midfield went to sleep for about half the game. Kruezer is ineffectual.
Gee, appointing that Buttifant chap was a masterstroke. We couldn't run out of sight on a dark night so he is getting his money under false pretences.
Cant believe the complete lack of spirit
instead of hating and hurting, this lot shrug their shoulders and accept another pay cheque.
I'm betting they do so without trembling too!
McInnes and Watson cant play in the same backline together...in fact McInnes is a VFL player only...I'd play White or Giles ahead of him.
Watson always seems a couple of steps off the pace of the game, not sure where we are headed with him.
Same old Same old...need two Hendersons......every team we play will load up with three talls forward and force us to drag Henderson back.
Game plan.....wont work with this team who dont have the skill level to hit targets all the way along the boundary line, Jamisons kick out off bounds under no pressure was a fine example.
Walker has to play forward to make us more potent, dont like him down back, gets frustrated and lost his cool a couple of times....
Shown up in the fitness stakes.
Couldn't maintain the first quarter defensive efforts.
Skills then fall away.
Tackles drop off a cliff.
But we still could have won so maybe we have some hope.
Take the rose coloured glasses off 79!
It's exactly what happened.
Fitness is key and at the moment we don't have a good enough level.
I'll add another thing. Backlines also get exposed when the rest of the side can't get back to assist.
I'm hoping Buttifant has a plan.
That was really hard to watch. McInnes, McLean & Walker were simply atrocious and our new recruits gave us very little. Thomas' kicking for goal made Casboult look like Tony Lockett. Henderson wasn't ready to play so shouldn't have, Watson was way too slow as predicted and we had no forward targets other than Waite as predicted.
Kreuzer, Garlett, Tuohy, Bell, Everrit simply didn't do enough.
And, how many players kicked into the man on the mark? Fmd.
A long year.
I'm really struggling to think of some positives to take out of the game, was there really anything of note ??
The game was lost in the 10 minutes it took Mick to respond to Port loading the forwards in the square, out thought, wasn't that why we ditched Ratt's?
Cant believe the complete lack of spirit this mob display, this goes back to Pagen, we've never recovered, instead of hating and hurting, this lot shrug their shoulders and accept another paycheque. I am seriously considering giving this lot away, and I've been a true blue since 1970. This hurts me, I don't think anyone out there tonight gives a toss. :-\
This x100
McInnes and Watson cant play in the same backline together...in fact McInnes is a VFL player only...I'd play White or Giles ahead of him.
Watson always seems a couple of steps off the pace of the game, not sure where we are headed with him.
Same old Same old...need two Hendersons......every team we play will load up with three talls forward and force us to drag Henderson back.
Game plan.....wont work with this team who dont have the skill level to hit targets all the way along the boundary line, Jamisons kick out off bounds under no pressure was a fine example.
Walker has to play forward to make us more potent, dont like him down back, gets frustrated and lost his cool a couple of times....
Geez EB, you are talking about going back to a game plan of three years ago! That got Ratten the bullet!
Two Hendersons, we don't have one! My insider states he has done a calf and could be out for four to five weeks if it turns out bad.
I predict we will be 2-6 (at best) when we get to the bye end 9.
That's it for me, we won't progress with Malthouse as coach. The list is good enough but the gameplan is outdated and the coach can't respond to the opposition's tactics.
Bit of both for me DJ....backline is terrible but the gameplan shows up poor skills from some players and some of them wont improve in that area.
The gameplan needs to be changed and suit the list and Mick has to be brave enough to say he has got it wrong...
Shown up in the fitness stakes.
Couldn't maintain the first quarter defensive efforts.
Skills then fall away.
Tackles drop off a cliff.
But we still could have won so maybe we have some hope.
Take the rose coloured glasses off 79!
It's exactly what happened.
Fitness is key and at the moment we don't have a good enough level.
I'll add another thing. Backlines also get exposed when the rest of the side can't get back to assist.
I'm hoping Buttifant has a plan.
We conceded 6 goals straight from about halfway through the second quarter to about 5 minutes into the third quarter.Players were fresh after half time and three of those goal came then. We had 34 tackles to half time but only 2 halfway through the third quarter.
McInnes and Watson cant play in the same backline together...in fact McInnes is a VFL player only...I'd play White or Giles ahead of him.
Watson always seems a couple of steps off the pace of the game, not sure where we are headed with him.
Same old Same old...need two Hendersons......every team we play will load up with three talls forward and force us to drag Henderson back.
Game plan.....wont work with this team who dont have the skill level to hit targets all the way along the boundary line, Jamisons kick out off bounds under no pressure was a fine example.
Walker has to play forward to make us more potent, dont like him down back, gets frustrated and lost his cool a couple of times....
Watson still young - deserves to be given a real crack this year.
The rest I think is spot on.
Shown up in the fitness stakes.
Couldn't maintain the first quarter defensive efforts.
Skills then fall away.
Tackles drop off a cliff.
But we still could have won so maybe we have some hope.
Take the rose coloured glasses off 79!
It's exactly what happened.
Fitness is key and at the moment we don't have a good enough level.
I'll add another thing. Backlines also get exposed when the rest of the side can't get back to assist.
I'm hoping Buttifant has a plan.
We conceded 6 goals straight from about halfway through the second quarter to about 5 minutes into the third quarter.Players were fresh after half time and three of those goal came then. We had 34 tackles to half time but only 2 halfway through the third quarter.
Couldn't sustain the effort.
Wobbly legs don't make good footballers.
Scheizenhausen! Skata! Merda!
But the legs wouldn't have been wobbly after half time, the commitment sure as hell was though.
McInnes and Watson cant play in the same backline together...in fact McInnes is a VFL player only...I'd play White or Giles ahead of him.
Watson always seems a couple of steps off the pace of the game, not sure where we are headed with him.
Same old Same old...need two Hendersons......every team we play will load up with three talls forward and force us to drag Henderson back.
Game plan.....wont work with this team who dont have the skill level to hit targets all the way along the boundary line, Jamisons kick out off bounds under no pressure was a fine example.
Walker has to play forward to make us more potent, dont like him down back, gets frustrated and lost his cool a couple of times....
Geez EB, you are talking about going back to a game plan of three years ago! That got Ratten the bullet!
Two Hendersons, we don't have one! My insider states he has done a calf and could be out for four to five weeks if it turns out bad.
LP...We wont save games with such an iffy backline so we need to kick more goals to win them...Walker can help up us do that along with Menzel.
The gameplan needs to be changed and suit the list and Mick has to be brave enough to say he has got it wrong...
You'll and Malthouse will die waiting for that to happen!
These AFL coaches must be some of the most arrogant people on the face of the planet. Mind you we have probably the most arrogant one. Lets not paint pretty pictures here, this list is not suited to this game plan, actually I think it was more suited to this game plan before trade and draft week!
Now not only is the game plan outdated, but the recruiting in trying to get a size 12 into a size 6 might have set us back a decade!
McInnes and Watson cant play in the same backline together...in fact McInnes is a VFL player only...I'd play White or Giles ahead of him.
Watson always seems a couple of steps off the pace of the game, not sure where we are headed with him.
Same old Same old...need two Hendersons......every team we play will load up with three talls forward and force us to drag Henderson back.
Game plan.....wont work with this team who dont have the skill level to hit targets all the way along the boundary line, Jamisons kick out off bounds under no pressure was a fine example.
Walker has to play forward to make us more potent, dont like him down back, gets frustrated and lost his cool a couple of times....
Geez EB, you are talking about going back to a game plan of three years ago! That got Ratten the bullet!
Two Hendersons, we don;t have one! My insider states he has done a calf and could be out for four to five weeks if it turns out bad.
Elwood is completely right though, Walker to the half-forward line not only gives us another potent attacking option but you all know his best ever season was playing in that position. He'll kick 45-50 goals a season if left there.
Yarran off half-back was a smart move by Ratten and it worked a treat so why not leave him there too. He was missing for long periods of the match tonight and no team can afford to carry passengers.
Malthouse needs to maintain the good things that Ratten did (eg. those two positional moves above) and then work on the other players and try to find a worthwhile role for them if they don't already have one.
He has tried Buckley in a back pocket during the NAB which appears to be the slot for him, this is the type of thinking we need MM to keep implementing, not reinvent and reinvent and reinvent.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it !!
hope a journalist rocks up to the press conference with food
and tells MM " its taste better than the sh1te your team served up tonight"
LP...We wont save games with such an iffy backline so we need to kick more goals to win them...Walker can help up us do that along with Menzel.
I agree EB, but I think it is too late we would be going in circles and the list doesn't suit the old game plans now either!
We won't be able to defend, and we cannot be caught in a shoot out either!
If it didn't remind me so much of EFC I would describe us as being in Neverland!
Yarran off half-back was a smart move by Ratten and it worked a treat so why not leave him there too. He was missing for long periods of the match tonight and no team can afford to carry passengers.
Errr, wasn't he on Wingard AKA the invisible man? Did a fantastic defensive job and used it well when he got it.
hope a journalist rocks up to the press conference with food
and tells MM " its taste better than the sh1te your team served up tonight"
:))
But the legs wouldn't have been wobbly after half time, the commitment sure as hell was though.
They were jelly alright.
Can they suspend Malthouse, we might have a chance!
Rnd 2 the only thing in our favour is Hardwick, who is probably equally ineffective but with less experience!
I suspect they will smash us because they carry the ball well and its Riewoldt that is their issue. If he switches on and Vickery fires, we are in big trouble. I'm not even upset about this loss because I suspected we would be napping, expecting a win. Not one of our players stood out in the top 10 on the night. These are the names on players I will never protect again because enough is enough. Trade or delist.
Warnock
Kreuzer
Garlett
Robinson
McLean
Watson
Walker
They lack true leadership, and have no idea how to get a side over the line. I know its only round one, but its a strong message that needs to be read to these players. Murphy, Gibbs and Thomas need to attract more of the footy, get the body into a contest or do better at finishing in front of goal. Each player has his lack of in one way or another. The money they attract doesn't justify their real earnings.
I won't start on Henderson, Yarran, 2E and a few others. I heard plenty from Curnow which was good, but that is about all I heard, along with Ellard. Sad to be honest.
Everitt, you better be worth your wage. I always had my doubts and you might just justify my concerns.
I think I will cancel the automatic debit thing for membership. They are wasting my money on players and coaches who don't LOVE this club.
The Carlton Football Club in its 150th year is not even a shadow of its former self.
We are no better than Footscray or StKilda... And that sucks.
McInnes and Watson cant play in the same backline together...in fact McInnes is a VFL player only...I'd play White or Giles ahead of him.
Watson always seems a couple of steps off the pace of the game, not sure where we are headed with him.
Same old Same old...need two Hendersons......every team we play will load up with three talls forward and force us to drag Henderson back.
Game plan.....wont work with this team who dont have the skill level to hit targets all the way along the boundary line, Jamisons kick out off bounds under no pressure was a fine example.
Walker has to play forward to make us more potent, dont like him down back, gets frustrated and lost his cool a couple of times....
Geez EB, you are talking about going back to a game plan of three years ago! That got Ratten the bullet!
Two Hendersons, we don't have one! My insider states he has done a calf and could be out for four to five weeks if it turns out bad.
LP...We wont save games with such an iffy backline so we need to kick more goals to win them...Walker can help up us do that along with Menzel.
I think Ratts recognized the strengths and weaknesses of the team, and was prepared to use them as advantageously as possible. We had pace and attacking flair, and so a game plan was devised accordingly. Not sure if Malthouse is doing this or trying to get the players playing a style they probably can't. EB1 is right. we ain't Hawthorn and our field kicking hasn't improved much over the years.
Malthouse needs to maintain the good things that Ratten did (eg. those two positional moves above) and then work on the other players and try to find a worthwhile role for them if they don't already have one.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it !!
I doubt the MM ego would let that happen, it would be as good as conceding a mistake and that isn't going to happen!
Sticks will fall before MM gets the chop, then MM soon after with Swann to follow I suspect! Tonight the fuse was lit on their end of career fireworks at Carlton!
Is only round 1 but that was more of the same....
Not sure where the problem is.
Everitt, you better be worth your wage. I always had my doubts and you might just justify my concerns.
Go easy on the new blokes, this was there first experience of our blokes under the pump. We have to judge them over at least half a season!
Is only round 1 but that was more of the same....
Not sure where the problem is.
In the head! It's self belief and putting it all on the line for the jumper.
Is only round 1 but that was more of the same....
Not sure where the problem is.
Too many old men, who are too fixed in their old ways and way too stubborn!
Their better players were just better than ours. Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer etc. should be carrying the side but they're not good enough. Judd is our only champion and he's pretty much at the end.
Is only round 1 but that was more of the same....
Not sure where the problem is.
Same place it's always been. Slightly to the left of the chest and between the ears.
hope a journalist rocks up to the press conference with food
and tells MM " its taste better than the sh1te your team served up tonight"
They should walk in with buckets of KFC, and play a game of chicken, I expect we would lose!
Their better players were just better than ours. Murphy, Gibbs, Kreuzer etc. should be carrying the side but they're not good enough. Judd is our only champion and he's pretty much at the end.
Is it that they weren't good enough or that they didn't want it as much? Or both?
That's it for me, we won't progress with Malthouse as coach. The list is good enough but the gameplan is outdated and the coach can't respond to the opposition's tactics.
Bit of both for me DJ....backline is terrible but the gameplan shows up poor skills from some players and some of them wont improve in that area.
The gameplan needs to be changed and suit the list and Mick has to be brave enough to say he has got it wrong...
Walker should be not allowed near a Backline.
Resigned the wrong player.
First year in a long time I have zero expectations for this side. Same crap different bucket. A lot of good football. Concede goals on will.
Lucky I no longer give a stuff. Port are average. They made us look second rate.
I think we are all becoming bored with this club & team, it is the same stuff every year, nothing changes. 1995 seems like a lifetime ago now.
Yep. Five years ago I never for one second hesitated when buying my membership.
Since then it's been 90% ... 80% ... etc., until this year I tossed a coin.
Stupid Queen cost me nearly $1,000.
Yarran off half-back was a smart move by Ratten and it worked a treat so why not leave him there too. He was missing for long periods of the match tonight and no team can afford to carry passengers.
Errr, wasn't he on Wingard AKA the invisible man? Did a fantastic defensive job and used it well when he got it.
Have to agree ....Yarran to half back worked and made Yarran accountable as well as giving us run from the backline as well as releasing Gibbs from the quarterback role....its a no brainer he plays his best footy off half back.
Walker played his best footy when sent forward IMO.....50 goals that breakout season.......I'd take 35 goals this season if we play him there.
We are the worst field kicking side in the AFL bar none, it wouldn't matter who coached us because we just don't have the skill.
The endeavour is fine, but we don't have the cattle.
Errr, wasn't he on Wingard AKA the invisible man? Did a fantastic defensive job and used it well when he got it.
He may have but what we didn't get from him was his run and carry off half-back like we were hoping, he did some of it later in the match but it is an area of our game that is lacking overall.
We are the worst field kicking side in the AFL bar none, it wouldn't matter who coached us because we just don't have the skill.
The endeavour is fine, but we don't have the cattle.
Quite possibly a good deal of truth in that.
bfl, you were quite a prolific poster on the old site. Gone a bit quiet on the new one.
Walker played his best footy when sent forward IMO.....50 goals that breakout season.......I'd take 35 goals this season if we play him there.
I agree, up forward he shows some mongrel which has been lost with Bett's departure.
In the 2s we have Scotland, Armfield, Buckley and Graham. They should be walk up starts in Rnd 2.
Carrazzo and Judd, if Hendo and Watson are injured can we afford to carry blokes with calf problems. All of a sudden including Kreuzer and Scotland we have five or six in this state. Tonight might have ensured this is Judd and Carrazzo's last season without them even stepping on the park!
We are the worst field kicking side in the AFL bar none, it wouldn't matter who coached us because we just don't have the skill.
The endeavour is fine, but we don't have the cattle.
I have been saying that for two years and nobody believed me.
You cannot go season after season smashing teams in the midfield clearances and barely winning half your games unless there is something very, very wrong. Our disposal is the thing that is very, very, wrong.
There are VFL teams superior to our AFL side when it comes to ball use!
delete
The scariest thing is I'm not even close to pissed off actually in a laughing mood and that's how far back we've gone.
This guy is supposed to be a defensive minded coach apparently? Lol.
we celebrate the past so much - cause that's where we live
the club is managed like it is still there, employs people likes its still there
But doesn't recruit like its still there
I don't see the hawks celebrating the 80's success like we do
we are a indulgent lot - its embarrassing
You see, the thing about Robbo is ... he's an idiot.
We are the worst field kicking side in the AFL bar none, it wouldn't matter who coached us because we just don't have the skill.
The endeavour is fine, but we don't have the cattle.
The call will be to bring in Graham, Cripps, Buckely etc...all three are promising and have their pros...their common con is that they dont kick the ball in an elite fashion....Cripps is reasonable but Graham lacks depth in his kicking and tends to go short and Buckley is erratic especially on the run.....add that to Robbo, Bell, Armfield and Curnow and the Mick game plan falls over if Murphy, Gibbs, Yarran and our better kicking players dont end up with a lot of the footy...
Davey Ellard actually used the ball better than most I thought.....
Heath Scotland can expect a call up as he can use the footy well but thats a short term fix only...
You see, the thing about Robbo is ... he's an idiot.
He's probably not an idiot, he just can't kick. But he is not alone in that area.
What would Kroozer be worth? GWS wouldn't even look at him now.
Saw enough tonight to fairly say we are going downhill. Malthouse i slowly bleeding the life out of this club. The whole club needs a reality check. We are no where near winning a flag with this lot. 11am my arse.
We need an injection of youth. We can no longer rely on the old brigade to get us over the line.
When Wingard, Wines, Polec and Impy create so many problems you are definitely in trouble. These guys are the types picked up by GCS and GWS recently. Do these guys need to shave ? Have their nuts dropped yet ? We drafted too many passengers over so many years. I was optimistic before this game and have just lost all hope. Not angry, just expect nothing and will except nothing as a result. its not just recruiting, its not just coaching, its not a game plan, its not a lack of will to win at any cost, its not a poor pre-season. Its everything, and all the above. Its not Geelong, Hawthorn, or other top sides. That is where they have us licked.
We are the worst field kicking side in the AFL bar none, it wouldn't matter who coached us because we just don't have the skill.
The endeavour is fine, but we don't have the cattle.
I have been saying that for two years and nobody believed me.
You cannot go season after season smashing teams in the midfield clearances and barely cwinning half your games unless there is something very, very wrong. Our disposal is the thing that is very, very, wrong.
There are VFL teams superior to our AFL side when it comes to ball use!
No argument from me. Our kicking has been atrocious for years. Terrible indictment on the recruiting staff that we've ended up with so many players who can't kick - in a game called FOOTball.
Shown up in the fitness stakes.
Couldn't maintain the first quarter defensive efforts.
Skills then fall away.
Tackles drop off a cliff.
But we still could have won so maybe we have some hope.
Take the rose coloured glasses off 79!
It's exactly what happened.
Fitness is key and at the moment we don't have a good enough level.
I'll add another thing. Backlines also get exposed when the rest of the side can't get back to assist.
I'm hoping Buttifant has a plan.
We conceded 6 goals straight from about halfway through the second quarter to about 5 minutes into the third quarter.Players were fresh after half time and three of those goal came then. We had 34 tackles to half time but only 2 halfway through the third quarter.
11 games last year we were 15 points up or more and conceded 5 or more goals on the run.
Nothing has changed.
MM praised that we turned over 25% of the list and only plays 2 new players, and starts a genuine talent as sub and rolls out the same side... Cripps, Menzel, Holmam, Giles, Buckley. Time to bite the bullet Mick
I said we wont make the 8 this year.
tonight proves it.
I have started my delist/trade list for the years end 2014:
Robinson
Watson
Kruezer
Warnock
Walker
Waite
Jamison
- just a start
Apparently allegedly the media shared a packet of Twisties at the MM press conference, even they have lost respect for the man! :-[
I have started my delist/trade list for the years end 2014:
Robinson
Watson
Kruezer
Warnock
Walker
Waite
Jamison
- just a start
WOW !!
And people reckon I'm harsh. ;D
No club would touch Robinson.
No club would touch Robinson.
I reckon a handful would, if only to provide some protection for their younger guys.
I thought Jammo did some OK stuff tonight, but he was surrounded by panic merchants which made his job horrible. The defence wasn't to blame for the 2nd quarter, that was our on ball division being smashed at stoppages.
The torp, dead unlucky, we had 3 players to 1 streaming onto that ball and it bounced backwards over all of them. None of them had the brains to read the bounce, they are not used to dealing with torps, they don't know what happens when the point is heading down. That wasn't Jammo's fault.
Take a look at the highlight of the Yarran goal, check out how it all started, we need more of that not less.
Saw enough tonight to fairly say we are going downhill. Malthouse i slowly bleeding the life out of this club. The whole club needs a reality check. We are no where near winning a flag with this lot. 11am my arse.
We need an injection of youth. We can no longer rely on the old brigade to get us over the line.
X2.
Sadly we have had a long running inbuilt mentality that we can buy/trade in established players, premiership coaches, experienced trainers etc and they alone will make as a force.
When are we going to accept that this is not the 80s anymore. Have a sad history now of thinking we can simply get one of two 'messiahs' and 'bang' that alone will get us to the next level.
User that mindset in getting Judd, Pratt, Swan, Malthouse and now Thomas.
How long is every man and his dog going to say 'we are an ok side but lack hard bodies mids 1-2 key stay at home forwards and defenders.
So who do we target - a finishing mid who has a huge injury cloud over him and another 2-3 tier running swing men.
And lost our only true small consistent forward in the process.
Our forward set up has not changed in 10 years. No system at all.
Tough times ahead.
No club would touch Robinson.
I reckon a handful would, if only to provide some protection for their younger guys.
Do a trade to get Green, Treloar, Swallow, Prestia or Stanley. They know how to deliver and are really young. So too goes for Wines or Wingard if there is a chance. Cameron, Dixon, or what ever is available.
Shown up in the fitness stakes.
Couldn't maintain the first quarter defensive efforts.
Skills then fall away.
Tackles drop off a cliff.
But we still could have won so maybe we have some hope.
Take the rose coloured glasses off 79!
It's exactly what happened.
Fitness is key and at the moment we don't have a good enough level.
I'll add another thing. Backlines also get exposed when the rest of the side can't get back to assist.
I'm hoping Buttifant has a plan.
We conceded 6 goals straight from about halfway through the second quarter to about 5 minutes into the third quarter.Players were fresh after half time and three of those goal came then. We had 34 tackles to half time but only 2 halfway through the third quarter.
11 games last year we were 15 points up or more and conceded 5 or more goals on the run.
Nothing has changed.
MM praised that we turned over 25% of the list and only plays 2 new players, and starts a genuine talent as sub and rolls out the same side... Cripps, Menzel, Holmam, Giles, Buckley. Time to bite the bullet Mick
Might be time Shades, but if you are going to play a lot of those kids at once then you better get ready for some pain. We would have lost by 70 tonight with more guys who can't run out games.
Dockers and Hawks will show whats required this year. 4/4 of merciless grinding football.
Is a Malthouse 11 o'clock equivalent to a Ratten Top 4?
I thought Jammo did some OK stuff tonight, but he was surrounded by panic merchants which made his job horrible. The defence wasn't to blame for the 2nd quarter, that was our on ball division being smashed at stoppages.
The torp, dead unlucky, we had 3 players to 1 streaming onto that ball and it bounced backwards over all of them. None of them had the brains to read the bounce. That wasn't Jammo's fault.
Take a look at the highlight of the Yarran goal, check out how it all started, we need more of that not less.
Yarran was arguing with another Carlton defender (I think Henderson) for Yarran not taking his man...there are too many conditional footballers in our Club
Hughes is gone but his decisions will last until such time we remove them from the Club by another recruitment or list management decision
Saw enough tonight to fairly say we are going downhill. Malthouse i slowly bleeding the life out of this club. The whole club needs a reality check. We are no where near winning a flag with this lot. 11am my arse.
We need an injection of youth. We can no longer rely on the old brigade to get us over the line.
X2.
Sadly we have had a long running inbuilt mentality that we can buy/trade in established players, premiership coaches, experienced trainers etc and they alone will make as a force.
When are we going to accept that this is not the 80s anymore. Have a sad history now of thinking we can simply get one of two 'messiahs' and 'bang' that alone will get us to the next level.
User that mindset in getting Judd, Pratt, Swan, Malthouse and now Thomas.
How long is every man and his dog going to say 'we are an ok side but lack hard bodies mids 1-2 key stay at home forwards and defenders.
So who do we target - a finishing mid who has a huge injury cloud over him and another 2-3 tier running swing men.
And lost our only true small consistent forward in the process.
Our forward set up has not changed in 10 years. No system at all.
Tough times ahead.
agree - we don't have the development skill in our DNA
we see other club as incubators and pay premium when they come good
we like paying full price for 10litres of milk when it expires tomorrow
Shown up in the fitness stakes.
Couldn't maintain the first quarter defensive efforts.
Skills then fall away.
Tackles drop off a cliff.
But we still could have won so maybe we have some hope.
Take the rose coloured glasses off 79!
It's exactly what happened.
Fitness is key and at the moment we don't have a good enough level.
I'll add another thing. Backlines also get exposed when the rest of the side can't get back to assist.
I'm hoping Buttifant has a plan.
We conceded 6 goals straight from about halfway through the second quarter to about 5 minutes into the third quarter.Players were fresh after half time and three of those goal came then. We had 34 tackles to half time but only 2 halfway through the third quarter.
11 games last year we were 15 points up or more and conceded 5 or more goals on the run.
Nothing has changed.
MM praised that we turned over 25% of the list and only plays 2 new players, and starts a genuine talent as sub and rolls out the same side... Cripps, Menzel, Holmam, Giles, Buckley. Time to bite the bullet Mick
Might be time Shades, but if you are going to play a lot of those kids at once then you better get ready for some pain. We would have lost by 70 tonight with more guys who can't run out games.
Dockers and Hawks will show whats required this year. 4/4 of merciless grinding football.
And that's different from 5 goal losses?
I thought Jammo did some OK stuff tonight, but he was surrounded by panic merchants which made his job horrible. The defence wasn't to blame for the 2nd quarter, that was our on ball division being smashed at stoppages.
The torp, dead unlucky, we had 3 players to 1 streaming onto that ball and it bounced backwards over all of them. None of them had the brains to read the bounce. That wasn't Jammo's fault.
Take a look at the highlight of the Yarran goal, check out how it all started, we need more of that not less.
Yarran was arguing with another Carlton defender (I think Henderson) for Yarran not taking his man...there are too many conditional footballers in our Club
Hughes is gone but his decisions will last until such time we remove them from the Club by another recruitment or list management decision
I was talking about the Jammo pass that started off that play. If you go and watch the Dawks or Geelong you see twenty of those a match. Jammo's stands out because over the last couple of years it is the first I have seen from us or anything like it!
Shown up in the fitness stakes.
Couldn't maintain the first quarter defensive efforts.
Skills then fall away.
Tackles drop off a cliff.
But we still could have won so maybe we have some hope.
Take the rose coloured glasses off 79!
It's exactly what happened.
Fitness is key and at the moment we don't have a good enough level.
I'll add another thing. Backlines also get exposed when the rest of the side can't get back to assist.
I'm hoping Buttifant has a plan.
We conceded 6 goals straight from about halfway through the second quarter to about 5 minutes into the third quarter.Players were fresh after half time and three of those goal came then. We had 34 tackles to half time but only 2 halfway through the third quarter.
11 games last year we were 15 points up or more and conceded 5 or more goals on the run.
Nothing has changed.
MM praised that we turned over 25% of the list and only plays 2 new players, and starts a genuine talent as sub and rolls out the same side... Cripps, Menzel, Holmam, Giles, Buckley. Time to bite the bullet Mick
Might be time Shades, but if you are going to play a lot of those kids at once then you better get ready for some pain. We would have lost by 70 tonight with more guys who can't run out games.
Dockers and Hawks will show whats required this year. 4/4 of merciless grinding football.
And that's different from 5 goal losses?
You know it is.
It'about marketing.
This club won't let us go through the 150th celebrations as a whipping side.
Shown up in the fitness stakes.
Couldn't maintain the first quarter defensive efforts.
Skills then fall away.
Tackles drop off a cliff.
But we still could have won so maybe we have some hope.
Take the rose coloured glasses off 79!
It's exactly what happened.
Fitness is key and at the moment we don't have a good enough level.
I'll add another thing. Backlines also get exposed when the rest of the side can't get back to assist.
I'm hoping Buttifant has a plan.
We conceded 6 goals straight from about halfway through the second quarter to about 5 minutes into the third quarter.Players were fresh after half time and three of those goal came then. We had 34 tackles to half time but only 2 halfway through the third quarter.
11 games last year we were 15 points up or more and conceded 5 or more goals on the run.
Nothing has changed.
MM praised that we turned over 25% of the list and only plays 2 new players, and starts a genuine talent as sub and rolls out the same side... Cripps, Menzel, Holmam, Giles, Buckley. Time to bite the bullet Mick
Might be time Shades, but if you are going to play a lot of those kids at once then you better get ready for some pain. We would have lost by 70 tonight with more guys who can't run out games.
Dockers and Hawks will show whats required this year. 4/4 of merciless grinding football.
And that's different from 5 goal losses?
You know it is.
It'about marketing.
This club won't let us go through the 150th celebrations as a whipping side.
Ahh yes. Very good point.
Expect Malthouse to be extended middle
Of the year as well.
People blaming Mick need to get a grip.
We had 10 years of pathetic recruiting under Hughes that is now biting us on the ass. Wasting high picks on Russell, Bower, Hampson, Lucas, Watson, Bootsma etc....
Ahh yes. Very good point.
Expect Malthouse to be extended middle
Of the year as well.
And I bet his hand won't tremble either!
Ahh yes. Very good point.
Expect Malthouse to be extended middle
Of the year as well.
And I bet his hand won't tremble either!
I have doubts about MM, but then I also think Port are a serious top 4 contender.
So I'm not slitting the wrists just yet.
If we lose to the Tigers by 30, then I'm really worried.
We won't though.
Bet your house on it.
We are the worst field kicking side in the AFL bar none, it wouldn't matter who coached us because we just don't have the skill.
The endeavour is fine, but we don't have the cattle.
I don't think our recruiting department has done a very good job over the years and we are suffering because of this. Our 3 number 1 draft picks AT BEST are good players, and I wouldn't put Kreuzer in that category as I feel he struggles as a ruckman and certainly isn't a forward. Gibbs is classy but doesn't run back hard enough the other way, and Murph is simply a very good player, but not a superstar. Our biggest problem is our lack of decent kickers in the team. We have Bell, Robinson, Carazzo, Macinness, Armfield, Walker, mclean. etc.etc... most of which can not kick properly. The hawthorn model is 'use the damn ball effectively' and to do that you have to be able to kick. Ratten built this team, so I blame him more than Malthouse, but i do think Malthouse and the club missed a trick by again failing to realise that what we need is a decent key forward and another key back, rather than more mids. I think we'll win about 6 games this year only. It will be the end of the Sticks board, possibly Mick and probably a number of senior players including Judd. I think this will be a good thing. We need to strip the club right back, and get new people in that are not 'carlton people'. We need to put an end to the boys club. We are a disgrace at the moment, and quite honestly, I can't see us getting any better any time soon.
Stop blaming Mick need to get a grip.
Apologist posts like this just mask the reality.
The Malthouse game plan does not suit our list and it may never be effective again given the changing nature of the AFL. As much as there are list changes that need to be made, I can see there are game plan aspects that need changing that haven't. He is professional, he won't be blind-sided when he gets the tap on the shoulder but his pride will take a beating. Next time it's over for MM it is over for good, he knows that, I hope his stubbornness doesn't kill us off in the process!
Bl00dy hell you lot go over board on Mick over one loss... Get a grip...
Its not Mick Malthouse who instructs players to kick the ball into a smother 10 times a game, nor does he instruct Kreuzer to run under every friggen mark he tries to take.
Im also pretty sure he doesn't instruct Robinson to miss every target he tries to hit... The players need to take responsibilty for this loss..
My man Garlett was useless, Kreuzer is a lost cause, 2e did nothing, Murphy was so unaccountable its not funny,and Walker became Waite like with his brain fades..
Next game id be dropping Kreuzer for Casboult, Robbo for Cripps, Walker will cop weeks so I'd be bringing in Buckley. Watto I'd give another a couple of weeks to see if he's got what it takes..
Bl00dy hell you lot go over board on Mick over one loss... Get a grip...
Its not Mick Malthouse who instructs players to kick the ball into a smother 10 times a game, nor does he instruct Kreuzer to run under every friggen mark he tries to take.
Im also pretty sure he doesn't instruct Robinson to miss every target he tries to hit... The players need to take responsibilty for this loss..
My man Garlett was useless, Kreuzer is a lost cause, 2e did nothing, Murphy was so unaccountable its not funny,and Walker became Waite like with his brain fades..
Next game id be dropping Kreuzer for Casboult, Robbo for Cripps, Walker will cop weeks so I'd be bringing in Buckley. Watto I'd give another a couple of weeks to see if he's got what it takes..
Feck me Casboult, one goal in a bannana match at Visy, and your telling us to get a grip!
Sure Malthouse doesn't tell them to do that. But he structures the team, puts the players into their positions and organises the game plan. FFS, next thing you be telling me to ignore him when he sits in the presser and says "I can't believe I'm sitting here!"
Bl00dy hell you lot go over board on Mick over one loss... Get a grip...
Its not Mick Malthouse who instructs players to kick the ball into a smother 10 times a game, nor does he instruct Kreuzer to run under every friggen mark he tries to take.
Im also pretty sure he doesn't instruct Robinson to miss every target he tries to hit... The players need to take responsibilty for this loss..
My man Garlett was useless, Kreuzer is a lost cause, 2e did nothing, Murphy was so unaccountable its not funny,and Walker became Waite like with his brain fades..
Next game id be dropping Kreuzer for Casboult, Robbo for Cripps, Walker will cop weeks so I'd be bringing in Buckley. Watto I'd give another a couple of weeks to see if he's got what it takes..
Feck me Casboult, one goal in a bannana match at Visy, and your telling us to get a grip!
Sure Malthouse doesn't tell them to do that. But he structures the team, puts the players into their positions and organises the game plan. FFS, next thing you be telling me to ignore him when he sits in the presser and says "I can't believe I'm sitting here!"
1 goal is better than the crape kreuzer put out tonight and Kreuzer cant play forward... Casboults Rucking is pretty good, so he's not just in there to play forward...
But if you wanna wipe the season off after round 1, and call for the coaches go ahead.. What a laugh you provide.. I guess 9 coaches will be under the chop after round 1. ::)
F me. 8 pages of the same "sky is falling" crud over and over again. We dropped the first game of the season to a team who were semi-finalists last year (nearly prelim finalists).
We were 3-0 last year and nearly made the finals without the help of drug-cheating scum.
At times tonight we played the type of football that is going to bring us into contention. I thought it was an improvement on last year.
Kreuzer over Cotchin is looking good now ey lol
F me. 8 pages of the same "sky is falling" crud over and over again. We dropped the first game of the season to a team who were semi-finalists last year (nearly prelim finalists).
We were 3-0 last year and nearly made the finals without the help of drug-cheating scum.
At times tonight we played the type of football that is going to bring us into contention. I thought it was an improvement on last year.
Certainly better than round one last year.
F me. 8 pages of the same "sky is falling" crud over and over again. We dropped the first game of the season to a team who were semi-finalists last year (nearly prelim finalists).
We were 3-0 last year and nearly made the finals without the help of drug-cheating scum.
At times tonight we played the type of football that is going to bring us into contention. I thought it was an improvement on last year.
Yr wasting your breath here mate... The club might aswell tank now and plan for 2018... Haven't you heard?? We're gone. 2014 is lost already. ;)
Wow....you hope it's not gonna turn out like that, then wham, you find yourself watching a train-wreck. That's about as frustrated and resigned to the fact of our mediocrity I've ever seen Carlton supporters at a game in recent memory.
It was gobsmackingly awful for the most part and ended up being very symbolic of where we're at: we can be very good, we can be very bad, but mostly we're just plain ordinary....a very 'nothing' team, firmly entrenched in the nether regions of the AFL ladder.
Gointocarlton quoted something I said verbatim whilst at the game tonight....that McInnes should never wear Navy Blue again. The guy is a spastic and is beyond being a liability out there, he is horrific.
And we won't have to worry about seeing Walker for the next 2-4 weeks....wtf was he thinking?
Murphy yet again demonstrates his title as the most ineffective captain in AFL, Kreuzer can no longer be accused of being over-rated 'cos he's that ordinary and I couldn't have been less underwhelmed with Thomas - who, if he continues in that vein, will be referred to as the 'Collingwood reject'....any chance at all of him kicking more than 30 forking metres?
My feelings of dread leading into this season became a reality before my very eyes tonight....and I was so hoping that wouldn't be the case, whereas now I can't see it being any other way.
.....and this is just round 1
Oh dear......
Kreuzer over Cotchin is looking good now ey lol
Same draft spewed up Dangerfield, Rioli, Ebert, Harry Taylor, Ward, McEvoy... I better stop, its making me ill..
I told you guys. We are simply not as good as we all hoped we would become and that wont change while 25% of our team impersonate the invisible man and play selfish football.
When we got Judd we needed to bite the bullet, get rid of all the dead wood and create a list that could have been the envy of the AFL about now. But alas no, we thought we could win a flag from his recruitment along with a couple of #1 draft picks. The problem with this football club is we still believe the most potent weapon is a cheque book and poaching from the past. Bring in a proven coach on the wrong side of his career. Check x2!!! Recruit a fitness coach from the new coaches old club. Check! Bring in a former coaches pet. Check x3!!
We are not the innovators. We just think that because "we are Carlton" that will get the job done. Pathetic! We need a broom through the board and we need truly passionate Carlton people with a finger on the pulse of the reality of AFL footy in 2014 to take the reins and make the hard calls.
Wayne Hughes should have been sacked years ago.
If our gameplan was no good, we wouldn't have held the lead for 3/4's of the game.. We made some silly mistakes and ran out of legs.
Malthouse has definitley changed his gameplan since last year and since his Collingwood days.. And for those who think he's too stubborn to admit it, he admitted it in an interview over the pre season that he would adjust the gamepan to keep up with the game and to suit our players and said he's not that stubborn to think that his old gameplan would work with our players, so he takes advice and tweaks it.. From memory he said he also took feedback from the players on what style they thought suited them.. Hes not stupid.. Its his job on the line so he will do whats best to get wins for our club.
Gointocarlton quoted something I said verbatim whilst at the game tonight....that McInnes should never wear Navy Blue again. The guy is a spastic and is beyond being a liability out there, he is horrific.
Fellow spastics include, (*anger may subside during coming rounds)
Bootsma
Casboult
Garlett
Lucas
Robbo
Rowe
Watson
White
What an awful display for a first up leadership group game by 1AW, as undisciplined as I have seen him play.
Some okay signs but also some play as bad as anything Collingwood produced against Freo with Port players running free wherever they pleased. I am pretty tired of opposition who know they can take our players on and break free.
We can put thoughts of flags to the side for now and figure out what we are going to do with the very huge void that is following the Gibbs generation. Personally, I say the writing is on the wall and let's get games into Cripps, Menzel, et al.
Forget the boundary, we have no idea how to execute that game. Forget the torp, it again bit us on the arse.
At times tonight we played the type of football that is going to bring us into contention. I thought it was an improvement on last year.
Unless PA play in the GF this year, that was a FKN disaster. We can't keep settling for second best. Christ we nearly beat the Hawks last year if not for the umps.
Exactly as I feared. We ran out of run, were smashed in th midfield and Port just swarmed all over us! >:(
If our gameplan was no good, we wouldn't have held the lead for 3/4's of the game.. We made some silly mistakes and ran out of legs.
Malthouse has definitley changed his gameplan since last year and since his Collingwood days.. And for those who think he's too stubborn to admit it, he admitted it in an interview over the pre season that he would adjust the gamepan to keep up with the game and to suit our players and said he's not that stubborn to think that his old gameplan would work with our players, so he takes advice and tweaks it.. From memory he said he also took feedback from the players on what style they thought suited them.. Hes not stupid.. Its his job on the line so he will do whats best to get wins for our club.
Posts that are calm and reasonable shall be ignored.
Please revert to self flagellation mode immediately.
I think Lucas would have been handy tonight.
Bell, Robbo and Curnow (thought he was excellent) simply can't all play in the guts together at the same time, as their disposal and decision making (curnow's not bad) isn't good enough. Was watching a dodgy connection of the game, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it looked like Gibbs hardly played in the guts - WTF??? He is far more accomplished than the aforementioned trio in these facets of the game, yet is not played on ball, his most suited role which would most benefit our team, . Again, WTF, especially with Judd and Carrots not playing?
McInnes and Watson cant play in the same backline together...in fact McInnes is a VFL player only...I'd play White or Giles ahead of him.
Watson always seems a couple of steps off the pace of the game, not sure where we are headed with him.
Same old Same old...need two Hendersons......every team we play will load up with three talls forward and force us to drag Henderson back.
Game plan.....wont work with this team who dont have the skill level to hit targets all the way along the boundary line, Jamisons kick out off bounds under no pressure was a fine example.
Walker has to play forward to make us more potent, dont like him down back, gets frustrated and lost his cool a couple of times....
All of the above, McInnes and Watson shouldn't play for a long time after that display. Be good to get Carrots and Juddy back back we cant keep going back to the same well.
Menzel should never have been sub, really rate his intensity, wont shirk a contest.
Warnock doesn't do enough around the ground, Krueze not enough in the ruck, and neither of them is a forwards rectum. Between them they laid 1 tackle, and took 4 marks! :o
Get Scotland in too, quality ball user.
Miss Daisy would want to get better as well.
Also just an observation, i'm well aware that versatility is the key, but is it really?
Wouldn't it be much harder for the guys to settle if they are being thrown around from bumhole to breakfast!
Those who support the boundary line game should have a look at how easily PA were able to stop our run at certain points in the game and swing the momentum back. As soon as we got the ball out they had numbers on the boundaries and we looked dead in the water. The MM apologist must be happy with the signs of improvement in his secon year. Imagine what wet dreams you'd be having if you were GWS or PA supporters with coaches who provide instant improvement without blaming list mgt :o . FMD when Ratts was coach every loss was his fault now it's all the players fault ::)
One of the best 1st quarters that the boys have ever played.
Consistently dropped off from there. So much so that they didn't even turn up in the last.
We have our issues, no doubt, but Port (and Freo) are the only top 8 (9) sides from last year that have shown any serious talent out there and i reckon the entire AFL has underestimated them.
They overrun sides all last year and were predicted to do the same again during the pre-game rundown. Whether that is confidence, fitness or both...it is working for them.
In our own backyard, well i hate to say it again, but Bell and Robbo are becoming a liability. For everything good they do, they do twice as many bad. Whether it is simply kick and hope, or taking the wrong options...or kicking into the man on the mark! They manage to do things that hurt us. Bells inability to run out a game continues to haunt us and led to us losing a mid rather than a ruck as a sub. Which contributed to our demise and lack of run.
Speaking of rucks, i'd drop both Kreuzer and Warnock and bring in Wood and Casboult. I think Casboult has been next to useless of late, but at least he provides us with something different. Wood is an honest battler with an above average pair of hands which immediately puts him above the 2 that played last night. No good winning the hitouts every week if half of them go to the opposition, and for the rest of the game you are invisible. Hitouts are not THAT important as a stat that you can go missing for the rest of the time.
Daisy, i love the kid, but he had a shocker. Lack of confidence or something saw him do some terrible things last night. I'll put that down as a once off, because i doubt he'd miss too many shots from 25m out too often.
Ellard...i've never been a huge fan of his, but he makes the most of his opportunities, generally and filled in the hole that Betts left. Personally i would've preferred Menzel getting the start with Ellard as sub, but he'll get a pass from me.
Changes...
IN: Buckley, Graham, Carrazzo, Armfield, Wood, Casboult
OUT: Walker (susp), Robinson, Bell, McInness, Kreuzer, Warnock
F me. 8 pages of the same "sky is falling" crud over and over again. We dropped the first game of the season to a team who were semi-finalists last year (nearly prelim finalists).
We were 3-0 last year and nearly made the finals without the help of drug-cheating scum.
At times tonight we played the type of football that is going to bring us into contention. I thought it was an improvement on last year.
Yr wasting your breath here mate... The club might aswell tank now and plan for 2018... Haven't you heard?? We're gone. 2014 is lost already. ;)
Fact is guys, we have the same old issues again so nothing has changed hence the negativity. Conceding runs of goals again, unable to sustain four quarters of pressure.
Remember what I said in the pre=game? If we can't sustain four quarters of pressure they'll roll us, all I asked for was four quarters of consistent pressure. We are not kids it isn't beyond us. I reckon we provided about 40 minutes of that and that's all. If that's all we can muster for the first game of the season and you guys think that's ok well then I'm sorry but you're part of the problem.
34 tackles in the first half and just two halfway through the third quarter. Does that not ring alarm bells in your head? Conceded 6 goals twice in under 60 minutes of football. In the first round. We literally gave up twice in less than 60 minutes of football.
Of all the teams in the comp I'd say we are in the worst position of all bar St Kilda. But hey at least they have real leader in Reiwoldt so whoever comes through the ranks will develop. We have nothing nada.
How much I hate going to Etihard I can't begin to tell you. Then to have to go there on a school night just craps me even more, especially when you think it will most probably end in tears.
Boy there's certainly a couple of common themes going on here.
Bad recruiting, well when you look back all our number one picks they all were universally regarded the ones that were number 1. Unfortunately they seem to have stagnated. Kreuzer is just completely shot at the moment and I think Murph has had too many shots to the head. A bit gun shy in my opinion. Gibbs is classy enough but lacks the grunt. I do however agree we have been drafting just about every bloke in football history who a) can't kick, b)has no pace or c) both of a & b. Really can't fault guys like Robbo or Bell for their effort but if they're lucky enough to get the ball the effect is counter productive at the best of times.
Even getting Judd and Carrots back won't address a & b. Most frustrating thing about last night is in the 3 games I've seen we haven't been able to run out the game? WTF, what's this new conditioning coach from Collingwood doing then? Saving us for the 2nd half of the year perhaps when we'll be 2 and 9.
My God we have a new Paul Bower in Watson playing for this club. How does a beanpole like Weshoff our muscle you. It was a pathetic as anything I've seen for many a year. I'd rather have Rowe ahead of Watson at this stage.
Let's try and find 5 blokes who can kick under pressure and give the likes of Robbo, Bell, McInnes etc a break. Even a guy like Curnow who is playing his best football at the moment can't be relied on to deliver but at least he's playing well.
I hope Thomas' kicking isn't related to his ankle because if it is we've blown another 700k down the gurgler.
Would like to add more but need to get some work done!
Most frustrating thing about last night is in the 3 games I've seen we haven't been able to run out the game? WTF, what's this new conditioning coach from Collingwood doing then? Saving us for the 2nd half of the year
This is a point i meant to bring up.
Traditionally at Collingwood, under Malthouse/Buttifant, their training loads meant that they peaked towards the end of the season. Could never win a game in April could the pies, but were always thereabouts come finals time. Hopefully, this is some kind of excuse for where we are at physically by comparison to Port.
I told you guys. We are simply not as good as we all hoped we would become and that wont change while 25% of our team impersonate the invisible man and play selfish football.
Yep.
The first quarter we look good supporting one another and playing as a team. Second quarter Westhoff starts dominating, the heads go down and blokes are looking around for someone to blame....after that it's every man for himself.
11 o'clock eh?
I turn sixty in a couple of weeks...it suddenly dawned on me, there's a fair chance I may have seen my last Carlton flag. That's not an hysterical response but more a sad realisation that there still seems to be heaps of work to do with this side. There seems to be little improvement from last year and none of our players (maybe Curnow and Ellard) showed anything to suggest that their 2014 will be better than their 2013....in fact it was the opposite.
Now things can turn around pretty quickly for a football club...the problem for us is that it seems not to be in our make-up. The quick turn around is something that Carlton teams of the 21st Century don't do.
I think we all have a right to be pretty annoyed at that showing. The 1st qtr and I was really pleased with our efforts, very happy in fact at how we contolled the game. We havent done that for while! I thought it may last but it did not and we got squashed!!
Only round 1 but its the way we lost and to who - a team we thought we would be vying for a finals spot with.
Port Adelaide are that far ahead of us it doesnt matter. They didnt have their best key defender in FB Carlile either yet still manage to setup defence so well.
So many good kids/younger blokes in the key position/tall flanker spots down back for starters - Carlile, Trengove, Jonas, Hombsch, Clurey, O'Shea and Stevenson. And then you have Westhoff who can go back there also!
Port Adelaide we all laughed at and thought they would take forever to get back to being a decent footy club and team. They have shown Carlton and our arrogance just how it is done - they have shown the whole AFL how it is done in fact!
Port have blown past Carlton and we are left coughing on their dust! They are miles aheda of us right now and their list is much better for the future too!
I did say we should have cut deeper in the offseason and go more inventive and I am really unsure if we have made the right calls in recent seasons including the one just past - too many list cloggers still! And a team that is so-called a contender or finals aspirant cannot have that many list cloggers.
We also have too many blokes where we have a ? mark next to their name in bold.
Right now as it stands....I am in so rush to sign Bryce Gibbs either.
Matty Kreuzer....dont get me started.
Mitch Robinson under pressure coughing up the ball...again....goes hard I know but not sure he is part of our next flag and for me that is where it is all at!
Watson, McInnes.....the list keeps going.
To tell you the truth - I think the writing is on the wall early in the season and id much rather games into others than the ones we rolled out last night.
The cupboard is pretty bare but id like to see a few others at some point soon getting games.
I told you guys. We are simply not as good as we all hoped we would become and that wont change while 25% of our team impersonate the invisible man and play selfish football.
Yep.
The first quarter we look good supporting one another and playing as a team. Second quarter Westhoff starts dominating, the heads go down and blokes are looking around for someone to blame....after that it's every man for himself.
11 o'clock eh?
I turn sixty in a couple of weeks...it suddenly dawned on me, there's a fair chance I may have seen my last Carlton flag. That's not an hysterical response but more a sad realisation that there still seems to be heaps of work to do with this side. There seems to be little improvement from last year and none of our players (maybe Curnow and Ellard) showed anything to suggest that their 2014 will be better than their 2013....in fact it was the opposite.
Now things can turn around pretty quickly for a football club...the problem for us is that it seems not to be in our make-up. The quick turn around is something that Carlton teams of the 21st Century don't do.
On the positive side, with modern medicine Lods you should push into the 90's.
Most frustrating thing about last night is in the 3 games I've seen we haven't been able to run out the game? WTF, what's this new conditioning coach from Collingwood doing then? Saving us for the 2nd half of the year
This is a point i meant to bring up.
Traditionally at Collingwood, under Malthouse/Buttifant, their training loads meant that they peaked towards the end of the season. Could never win a game in April could the pies, but were always thereabouts come finals time. Hopefully, this is some kind of excuse for where we are at physically by comparison to Port.
Colingwood won 7 of their first 8 in 2010 and their first 6 in 2011.
Most frustrating thing about last night is in the 3 games I've seen we haven't been able to run out the game? WTF, what's this new conditioning coach from Collingwood doing then? Saving us for the 2nd half of the year
This is a point i meant to bring up.
Traditionally at Collingwood, under Malthouse/Buttifant, their training loads meant that they peaked towards the end of the season. Could never win a game in April could the pies, but were always thereabouts come finals time. Hopefully, this is some kind of excuse for where we are at physically by comparison to Port.
Colingwood won 7 of their first 8 in 2010 and their first 6 in 2011.
That's good because they'll look super fit and good on their end of season trip in September
To tell you the truth - I think the writing is on the wall early in the season and id much rather games into others than the ones we rolled out last night.
The cupboard is pretty bare but id like to see a few others at some point soon getting games.
The cupboard isnt bare its on a slow heat.
Watch this space. Nick Graham and Cachia are chomping at the bit to play senior footy, and on last nights effort will play against Richmond and expect Nick Graham to have a VERY good game!
... Casboults Rucking is pretty good, so he's not just in there to play forward...
Casboult's rucking is poo when he is at his best!
To tell you the truth - I think the writing is on the wall early in the season and id much rather games into others than the ones we rolled out last night.
The cupboard is pretty bare but id like to see a few others at some point soon getting games.
The cupboard isnt bare its on a slow heat.
Watch this space. Nick Graham and Cachia are chomping at the bit to play senior footy, and on last nights effort will play against Richmond and expect Nick Graham to have a VERY good game!
Pffft. Graham and Cachia. They are our saviours? God help us.
The real problem is not recruiting per se, it's the player development after they come to the club.
This thread is filled with criticism of Bell and Robbo, much of it unfortunately justified. Back when Bell and Robbo were recruited, the club clearly had a very soft midfield - recruiting a couple of tough nuts was the right thing to do. If you read this site and the old one over the years, there have been plenty of wraps for Robbo and to a lesser extent Bell over the journey. And plenty on here were very happy when we got them.
You can only choose from what is available. Gun AFL players are not a dime a dozen. You can't just waltz into the marketplace and order a couple of Sammy Mitchells, a couple of Joel Selwoods, a Roughie and fries to go. The club did the right thing at the time.
The fact that they (and others) haven't come on and improved is the really worrying thing for mine.
The real problem is not recruiting per se, it's the player development after they come to the club.
This thread is filled with criticism of Bell and Robbo, much of it unfortunately justified. Back when Bell and Robbo were recruited, the club clearly had a very soft midfield - recruiting a couple of tough nuts was the right thing to do. If you read this site and the old one over the years, there have been plenty of wraps for Robbo and to a lesser extent Bell over the journey. And plenty on here were very happy when we got them.
You can only choose from what is available. Gun AFL players are not a dime a dozen. You can't just waltz into the marketplace and order a couple of Sammy Mitchells, a couple of Joel Selwoods, a Roughie and fries to go. The club did the right thing at the time.
The fact that they (and others) haven't come on and improved is the really worrying thing for mine.
That's right. And that's why we got Kreuz; we had a real perceived ruck problem at the time. Now either we made poor choices in terms of talent or we have failed in the development, or maybe a bit of both?
Its time like these you realise how much of our problems over the years Judd was able to mask. He carried us on his own, our three no.1 draft picks cant even carry us for one game.
Will be mostly going to games this year to watch Juddy as it most likely will be Judd's last season as we are nowhere near it.
The real problem is not recruiting per se, it's the player development after they come to the club.
This thread is filled with criticism of Bell and Robbo, much of it unfortunately justified. Back when Bell and Robbo were recruited, the club clearly had a very soft midfield - recruiting a couple of tough nuts was the right thing to do. If you read this site and the old one over the years, there have been plenty of wraps for Robbo and to a lesser extent Bell over the journey. And plenty on here were very happy when we got them.
You can only choose from what is available. Gun AFL players are not a dime a dozen. You can't just waltz into the marketplace and order a couple of Sammy Mitchells, a couple of Joel Selwoods, a Roughie and fries to go. The club did the right thing at the time.
The fact that they (and others) haven't come on and improved is the really worrying thing for mine.
That's right. And that's why we got Kreuz; we had a real perceived ruck problem at the time. Now either we made poor choices in terms of talent or we have failed in the development, or maybe a bit of both?
cookie, Krooz is a very good example of this phenomenon, and the one that most breaks my heart. I really wanted him to become an elite player of the comp. A very good ruck-man who was great at ground level, and could double as a midfielder / big body around the packs. He started with all guns blazing - we were all hopeful. It seems as though he has got worse season by season. I know about the knee(s). But gee, it's heart breaking to watch. Lion heart, loves the club. Very distressing.
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.
Don't need your knees to mark the ball? His mobility looks OK actually.
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.
He looked unstoppable until the knee. In answer to your question, I'd guess the former rather than the latter.
Token reply in thread for token effort last night.
I thought after seeing us win the test (cricket) series in South Africa - ending the summer and thusly commencing winter sports - I thought I was ready for footy season again, but alas, watching the friday night rugby holds more interest to me than AFL or watching us play in general.
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.
He looked unstoppable until the knee. In answer to your question, I'd guess the former rather than the latter.
I wouldn't say unstoppable but he was showing more potential pre-knee. The problem with Kreuz is he is stuck in no mans land for a ruckman which is all he is. At 200cm he is not going to be a dominate ruckman in the AFL like he was in the juniors, and doesn't have the athleticism or nous to be a forward, too lumbering.
I would say its definitely development issues, the amount of balls he ran under last night. He and Warnock both have no idea how to use the hips and body when going up and just leap for the ball. Like Waite who calls for the ball from the cheer squad but at least he takes it.
Why do we insist of constantly recruiting and playing guys who cant kick!!!
11 games last year we were 15 points up or more and conceded 5 or more goals on the run.
Nothing has changed.
This is the most poignant and relevant comment in this whole post-mortem.
It goes beyond last year - I would say it's been a "feature" since 2009 (before that we seldom got 15 points in front). I've asked before if anyone can tell me why.
I really don't buy into the "
not playing for the jumper", or ... "
it's between the ears" type excuses which don't stand up to any empirical (i.e. provable) examination.
Purely and simply, we let teams off the hook time and time again. I swear, the opposition just seems to know they can cruise against us - that we'll inevitably go to sleep, and, when we do, BAM!, a few intense gut busting efforts during pre-planned set plays and it's pretty much all over.
Good teams do not allow this to happen. We are not a good team. I think I've just answered my own question and it depresses the hell out of me.
It was 21 years between 1947 and 1968. Another record drought coming up except this time we can't blame carbon emissions.
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.
He looked a good ruckmen until we tried to turn him into a forward, in much the same way Casboult looked a good ruck / forward after five games in the TAC as a forward and failed to progress as a forward. Kreuzer is still a good player, but I doubt he will ever be a good forward.
People know where I stand on this, we kept a bunch of spud forwards and in the process b0rked up what was potentially the leagues best ruck division. We took a strength and turned it into a weakness and failed to address a clear weakness. Poster keel-hauled Brett Ratten for trying to turn SpecialK into a forward, and now Mick Malthouse is doing exactly the same thing and posters seem to accept it.
Why does MM doing this get justified as the right move but when Ratten did it they labeled the same process so wrong?
In the end nothing has changed for the better it seems!
So is Krooz poor development or poor management? He looked a good player until the knee.
He looked a good ruckmen until we tried to turn him into a forward, in much the same way Casboult looked a good ruck / forward after five games in the TAC as a forward and failed to progress as a forward. Kreuzer is still a good player, but I doubt he will ever be a good forward.
People know where I stand on this, we kept a bunch of spud forwards and in the process b0rked up what was potentially the leagues best ruck division. We took a strength and turned it into a weakness and failed to address a clear weakness. Poster keel-hauled Brett Ratten for trying to turn SpecialK into a forward, and now Mick Malthouse is doing exactly the same thing and posters seem to accept it.
Why does MM doing this get justified as the right move but when Ratten did it they labeled the same process so wrong?
In the end nothing has changed for the better it seems!
Agree....got rid of Fev then went the cheap turn the ruckmen into a KP Forward and failed miserably as you would expect.
Then went the cheap fix with Rowe and Casboult as well as the tall U18 draft with Mitchell, McCarthy, Watson and as we know kids take time even if they do make it....you get a Jeremy Cameron every ten years not every draft...
Its list management and recruiting that have killed us........Malthouse needs a proven performer in these area's to give him the equipment to get the job done....
One of the best 1st quarters that the boys have ever played.
Geez, don't know about that kruddler....it was okay to good, nothing more than that. You're easily pleased..... ;)
... Casboults Rucking is pretty good, so he's not just in there to play forward...
Casboult's rucking is poo when he is at his best!
x 2....shocking call there jami...err Dirty Harry. Casboult cannot ruck to save himself.
One of the best 1st quarters that the boys have ever played.
Geez, don't know about that kruddler....it was okay to good, nothing more than that. You're easily pleased..... ;)
Yep...controlled play, won plenty of the ball but the hallmark of average teams is they dont convert on the scoreboard .
4 goals 4 behinds should have been 7 goals 1 behind.....
... Casboults Rucking is pretty good, so he's not just in there to play forward...
Casboult's rucking is poo when he is at his best!
x 2....shocking call there jami...err Dirty Harry. Casboult cannot ruck to save himself.
Kroozer is not much better at the moment. The start of their attacks all started when krooze was put in the ruck to give Warnock a rest.
Kroozer is not much better at the moment. The start of their attacks all started when krooze was put in the ruck to give Warnock a rest.
SpecialK was still wearing a moon boot in January, I'll cut him some slack!
22 players had operations during the off season. A lot of players have had interrupted pre seasons so I never expected the team to be anywhere near fit. The way the game panned out shouldn't have been a surprise. We won't be hitting our straps for a while yet.
22 players had operations during the off season. A lot of players have had interrupted pre seasons so I never expected the team to be anywhere near fit. The way the game panned out shouldn't have been a surprise. We won't be hitting our straps for a while yet.
An important and often overlooked factor. Good get BB.
The three quarters of keeping abreast followed by the 4th quarter fade out would be consistent with this.
It's quite true that we had a lot of players who weren't able to get a good pre-season under their belts
The problem is that the opportunity has now passed them by for 2014.
You cant make up for that 4-5 month period of tough pre-season conditioning work during the regular season otherwise you leave yourself stuffed for games.
With a couple of players you could possibly manage by rotating players through games, but not with around a dozen or more.
The lack of a foundation puts them behind the pack when the other variation of training loads comes into play.
One of the best 1st quarters that the boys have ever played.
Geez, don't know about that kruddler....it was okay to good, nothing more than that. You're easily pleased..... ;)
What i liked about it was that we dominated.
Not just on the scoreboard, as we could've/should've kicked better, but all around the ground.
Contested possessions and hard ball gets we were dominating.
The boys were shepherding.
The boys were physical, without giving away free kicks.
When the ball went over the boundary line, a team mate would come over and give the guy chasing a pat on the head....and more importantly he would give his opponent a whack while he was there....and he he fought back, someone else would come over and give him one too.
We were physically beating up on them the way Hawks/Cats/Swans beat up on sides.
THAT is why it was the best first quarter these boys have ever played. They played like good teams should.
... Casboults Rucking is pretty good, so he's not just in there to play forward...
Casboult's rucking is poo when he is at his best!
x 2....shocking call there jami...err Dirty Harry. Casboult cannot ruck to save himself.
Kroozer is not much better at the moment. The start of their attacks all started when krooze was put in the ruck to give Warnock a rest.
Yep - agree with that....
It's quite true that we had a lot of players who weren't able to get a good pre-season under their belts
The problem is that the opportunity has now passed them by for 2014.
You cant make up for that 4-5 month period of tough pre-season conditioning work during the regular season otherwise you leave yourself stuffed for games.
With a couple of players you could possibly manage by rotating players through games, but not with around a dozen or more.
The lack of a foundation puts them behind the pack when the other variation of training loads comes into play.
Does this mean you think we're cooked for 2014 ?
22 players had operations during the off season. A lot of players have had interrupted pre seasons so I never expected the team to be anywhere near fit. The way the game panned out shouldn't have been a surprise. We won't be hitting our straps for a while yet.
Means that by the team is collectively 100% game fit, our season will be well & truly forked......great, just forking great.....over before it even started.....
It's quite true that we had a lot of players who weren't able to get a good pre-season under their belts
The problem is that the opportunity has now passed them by for 2014.
You cant make up for that 4-5 month period of tough pre-season conditioning work during the regular season otherwise you leave yourself stuffed for games.
With a couple of players you could possibly manage by rotating players through games, but not with around a dozen or more.
The lack of a foundation puts them behind the pack when the other variation of training loads comes into play.
Does this mean you think we're cooked for 2014 ?
I'm not going to call that on one game....but there will be individual players who won't have the season they otherwise would have had with a full pre-season base on which to build. Our problem is we have a few of those.
22 players had operations during the off season. A lot of players have had interrupted pre seasons so I never expected the team to be anywhere near fit. The way the game panned out shouldn't have been a surprise. We won't be hitting our straps for a while yet.
Means that by the team is collectively 100% game fit, our season will be well & truly forked......great, just forking great.....over before it even started.....
Certainly not fit enough for 84 interchange rotations a game. We need to start hitting the 120 mark next week.
It's quite true that we had a lot of players who weren't able to get a good pre-season under their belts
The problem is that the opportunity has now passed them by for 2014.
You cant make up for that 4-5 month period of tough pre-season conditioning work during the regular season otherwise you leave yourself stuffed for games.
With a couple of players you could possibly manage by rotating players through games, but not with around a dozen or more.
The lack of a foundation puts them behind the pack when the other variation of training loads comes into play.
Does this mean you think we're cooked for 2014 ?
I'm not going to call that on one game....but there will be individual players who won't have the season they otherwise would have had with a full pre-season base on which to build. Our problem is we have a few of those.
Translation: we're forked...... :D
It's quite true that we had a lot of players who weren't able to get a good pre-season under their belts
The problem is that the opportunity has now passed them by for 2014.
You cant make up for that 4-5 month period of tough pre-season conditioning work during the regular season otherwise you leave yourself stuffed for games.
With a couple of players you could possibly manage by rotating players through games, but not with around a dozen or more.
The lack of a foundation puts them behind the pack when the other variation of training loads comes into play.
Does this mean you think we're cooked for 2014 ?
I'm not going to call that on one game....but there will be individual players who won't have the season they otherwise would have had with a full pre-season base on which to build. Our problem is we have a few of those.
Translation: we're forked...... :D
...probably :D....but some of those with limited pre-seasons will get a bit better as they regain some levels of fitness.
Just not to the same extent as if they'd had an uninterrupted training progression.
One of the best 1st quarters that the boys have ever played.
Geez, don't know about that kruddler....it was okay to good, nothing more than that. You're easily pleased..... ;)
What i liked about it was that we dominated.
Not just on the scoreboard, as we could've/should've kicked better, but all around the ground.
Contested possessions and hard ball gets we were dominating.
The boys were shepherding.
The boys were physical, without giving away free kicks.
When the ball went over the boundary line, a team mate would come over and give the guy chasing a pat on the head....and more importantly he would give his opponent a whack while he was there....and he he fought back, someone else would come over and give him one too.
We were physically beating up on them the way Hawks/Cats/Swans beat up on sides.
THAT is why it was the best first quarter these boys have ever played. They played like good teams should.
Yes, I was at the game. We did look very good in the first quarter and if we had have put an extra goal or two on the board, it may have been all over. I felt we didn't get adequate return on our dominance in the first. Port was generally better than us after quarter time. Our guys kept fighting but it appeared as if Port were going to break it open - and they did. Our pre-season was just as long-short as theirs, so no excuses on fitness. I think the altitude stuff is a crock of 5h1t. Port went to Dubai and they appeared much, much fitter and stronger than our guys.
Kreuzer must improve his fitness and jumping ability and both ruckmen need to take more marks around the ground, especially in defence. Garlett was terrible and overran the ball two or three times. Watson was very suspect overhead. He doesn't seem to able to spoil or mark very well at all. McInnes' disposal was very poor as was Robinson's. I think we need to persist with Graham and maybe even Buckley instead of McLean. A very disappointing night.
22 players had operations during the off season. A lot of players have had interrupted pre seasons so I never expected the team to be anywhere near fit. The way the game panned out shouldn't have been a surprise. We won't be hitting our straps for a while yet.
I'm not going to dispute your figure of 22 players having surgery. However, what I am going to dispute is the timing of the surgery.
- our season ended in mid-September
- they could of had surgery within 2-3 weeks of that meaning mid-October operations
- subject to their convalescence period, they could of resumed full-time training in mid-late November
So we have December, January, February and half of March which is about 13-15 weeks of sustained heavy training to get to full fitness.
We are talking about elite sportsmen working in an elite environment with professional instructors/mentors, not the average suburban player who just slums it. Besides, our guys already are coming off a solid fitness base from the 2013 season which they can work from.
So to me, either the players are cutting corners or the fitness guru is a dud !!
22 players had operations during the off season. A lot of players have had interrupted pre seasons so I never expected the team to be anywhere near fit. The way the game panned out shouldn't have been a surprise. We won't be hitting our straps for a while yet.
I'm not going to dispute your figure of 22 players having surgery. However, what I am going to dispute is the timing of the surgery.
- our season ended in mid-September
- they could of had surgery within 2-3 weeks of that meaning mid-October operations
- subject to their convalescence period, they could of resumed full-time training in mid-late November
So we have December, January, February and half of March which is about 13-15 weeks of sustained heavy training to get to full fitness.
We are talking about elite sportsmen working in an elite environment with professional instructors/mentors, not the average suburban player who just slums it. Besides, our guys already are coming off a solid fitness base from the 2013 season which they can work from.
So to me, either the players are cutting corners or the fitness guru is a dud !!
the club appears to have no performance based management.
I mentioned the medical staff are no good. The day after the Sydney final - everyone should have been booked for surgery that day. That means 6 months to recover.
Regards to Mr Swan
One of the best 1st quarters that the boys have ever played.
Geez, don't know about that kruddler....it was okay to good, nothing more than that. You're easily pleased..... ;)
Yep...controlled play, won plenty of the ball but the hallmark of average teams is they dont convert on the scoreboard .
4 goals 4 behinds should have been 7 goals 1 behind.....
So to Sumamrise:
We got 4 goals up and let a team run over the Top of us by kicking 6 straight on 2 occasions
We played 0 new Draftees and in fact had 1 from teh apst 3 years playing.. as sub compared to 2 first gamers from the winning side, and last years draftees were BOG.
We kicked more points than goals.
Our disposable was still shocking.
Yep I could see the change at the Top was needed.
We played 0 new Draftees and in fact had 1 from teh apst 3 years playing.. as sub compared to 2 first gamers from the winning side, and last years draftees were BOG.
All sorts of trouble in a few years time. I think we have the least experienced under 23 group in the league and we're the third oldest team going around. All warning signs.
So to me, either the players are cutting corners or the fitness guru is a dud !!
We have already got the "You have to keep them on the ground" line from MM in his last presser. That was a veiled swipe at the rotation cap despite stats saying we only used 86 of 120 rotation.
Next week if we lose and fail to run things out you can expect to get the old "This season is a marathon not a sprint!"
We will be fit at the end, just in time to watch the finals!
Needless to say the game against Richmond is going to decide whether this site internally combusts or if everyone backflips..
A big win against Richmond and last nights game will be seen as an anomoly. However, a loss against the Tigers will result in this site sacking our whole list, coaches, CEO, President, Footy operations manager, Media manager, boot studder, car park attendant, security guards, cheer squad leader and the catering company at visy park.
Cant wait.. ;D
Oh and last time I saw Casboult ruck he went pretty well.. Definitely not a terrible call IMO..
Needless to say the game against Richmond is going to decide whether this site internally combusts or if everyone backflips..
A big win against Richmond and last nights game will be seen as an anomoly. However, a loss against the Tigers will result in this site sacking our whole list, coaches, CEO, President, Footy operations manager, Media manager, boot studder, car park attendant, security guards, cheer squad leader and the catering company at visy park.
Cant wait.. ;D
Oh and last time I saw Casboult ruck he went pretty well.. Definitely not a terrible call IMO..
That's as good a summary of a typical footy forum as you will get.
Disagree about Casboult, but Meh, who the hell knows anyway ?
That's as good a summary of a typical footy forum as you will get.
Disagree about Casboult, but Meh, who the hell knows anyway ?
Maybe Crash can give us a summary of Meats recent ruck work in the practice match against Box Hill?
But as I understand it Wood had 53 hit outs compared to Casboult's 12, against not much opposition.
We were smashed in the clearances twice during the game last night and both times we conceded multiple goals. I wonder who was actually playing on the ball on those occasions, that info could tell a not so pretty story. I'm tipping the MC already know.
We were smashed in the clearances twice during the game last night and both times we conceded multiple goals. I wonder who was actually playing on the ball on those occasions, that info could tell a not so pretty story. I'm tipping the MC already know.
Im tipping you already know the answer to this one too.. ;)
A reporter asked mick about us getting smashed every time Warnock was rested and Kreuzer went into the ruck..
We were smashed in the clearances twice during the game last night and both times we conceded multiple goals. I wonder who was actually playing on the ball on those occasions, that info could tell a not so pretty story. I'm tipping the MC already know.
Im tipping you already know the answer to this one too.. ;)
A reporter asked mick about us getting smashed every time Warnock was rested and Kreuzer went into the ruck..
Actually they talked about this on one of the radio stations after the match. On several occasions apparently the Port wingmen were allowed to run free behind the pack and collect easy uncontested possessions or free up the Port midfield to clear the ball. We were labeled as unprofessional and it was considered a rarity in the AFL these days for that to happen so often. I think the word they used was unaccountable. Not sure who was to blame but in the last quarter when it happened twice in a row Bell was sub'd shortly after, but it could has easily been another player as well.
Firstly on a positive note I want to say a big well done to Davy Ellard. Thought he competed well and had a really good game. Can't understand why MM subbed Bell instead of Kruezer or Warnock or one of the other talls?
Plz Plz stop slowly destroying Kruezer's career by trying to make him into a forward. Let him ruck 80% of the time and he will be a jet. Hammer will thrive at Richmond because he will play in the position we should've played him.
We are the worst field kicking side in the AFL bar none, it wouldn't matter who coached us because we just don't have the skill.
The endeavour is fine, but we don't have the cattle.
Quite possibly a good deal of truth in that.
bfl, you were quite a prolific poster on the old site. Gone a bit quiet on the new one.
I've lost a bit of interest given the woeful draw the AFL have handed us.
Three day games for the year, two Sunday nights, half a dozen Sunday 4.40 games, I'm too old for this crape.
Still a passionate Blue Boy, this would have been by 51st year as a member but what's the point when I'll be going to two or three games?
My sister has been a member as long as me and still is, she reckons she's seen her last Carlton flag and I'm starting to agree with her.
Last night's team was only missing Juddy and Scotto and our skills were woeful, Jamison's shank late in the game was just more of the same and Thomas seems to have caught the disease, the best kick in the side is Yarran but he can't get the ball.
After hardly missing a game in our dark years what's being dished up now doesn't excite me, I honestly expected another flag by now.
Oh and last time I saw Casboult ruck he went pretty well.. Definitely not a terrible call IMO..
Casboult has the turning circle of a Mack truck and can't kick to save his life, it's desperation stakes if we're pinning our hopes on him.
Warnock is average, but Casboult is sub average.
22 players had operations during the off season. A lot of players have had interrupted pre seasons so I never expected the team to be anywhere near fit. The way the game panned out shouldn't have been a surprise. We won't be hitting our straps for a while yet.
Means that by the team is collectively 100% game fit, our season will be well & truly forked......great, just forking great.....over before it even started.....
Glass half full or empty Brettie!
Oh and last time I saw Casboult ruck he went pretty well.. Definitely not a terrible call IMO..
Casboult has the turning circle of a Mack truck and can't kick to save his life, it's desperation stakes if we're pinning our hopes on him.
Warnock is average, but Casboult is sub average.
Well turning circles have nothing to do with ruck work, and his disposal is on par with half of our team.. But he can atleast take marks in the forward line...
IMO I'd drop Kreuzer for Casboult. Thats my opinion and Im sticking to it until Kreuzer gives us something.
Oh and last time I saw Casboult ruck he went pretty well.. Definitely not a terrible call IMO..
Casboult has the turning circle of a Mack truck and can't kick to save his life, it's desperation stakes if we're pinning our hopes on him.
Warnock is average, but Casboult is sub average.
Well turning circles have nothing to do with ruck work, and his disposal is on par with half of our team.. But he can atleast take marks in the forward line...
IMO I'd drop Kreuzer for Casboult. Thats my opinion and Im sticking to it until Kreuzer gives us something.
I honestly thought Kreuzer went OK, our rucks were both let down by our midfield for most of the night.
I don't think Casboult would give us any more,and probably less although Warnock has zero impact in general play, at least Kreuzer gets involved.
Murphy went well, Bell goes in hard and has a future, Robbo butchered the ball, McLean had a dirty one, Ellard isn't an AFL class mid and we'd be better off putting games into Cripps.
We'll be much better with Juddy and Carratts back but we can't rely on those ctwo for much longer.
I am not prepared to back Kreuzer or any player again. When they perform week after week I may reconsider. Hammer is ready to hand us a beating, just to teach us a lesson. Wayne Carey commented on how Port have had a huge pre-season last season to get their cardio up to scratch, and have followed the same up this season.
I know we have had injuries and not the best ability to prep every player. However its time to sort players into the cracked, sacked or keep basket and not be soft about it. Those that don't have the intention to be a worker can't be a passenger again. Not many stoop up or stepped up to the plate when the going got tough last night. If any at all. This was round 1 when players are expected to be enthusiastic about a new season ahead. This could become one of the worst starts to a season we have seen for a while. Richmond waiting to smash us, and then Essenscum ready to do the exact same.
No Carrazzo or Judd is not our issue. We can't be bothered running hard both ways. We can't be bothered laying tackles. Just sticking one arm out and expecting players to stick like flies to fly-paper. If it wasn't for Ellard and Curnow, it might have been even worse.
We are the worst field kicking side in the AFL bar none, it wouldn't matter who coached us because we just don't have the skill.
The endeavour is fine, but we don't have the cattle.
Quite possibly a good deal of truth in that.
bfl, you were quite a prolific poster on the old site. Gone a bit quiet on the new one.
I've lost a bit of interest given the woeful draw the AFL have handed us.
Three day games for the year, two Sunday nights, half a dozen Sunday 4.40 games, I'm too old for this crape.
Still a passionate Blue Boy, this would have been by 51st year as a member but what's the point when I'll be going to two or three games?
My sister has been a member as long as me and still is, she reckons she's seen her last Carlton flag and I'm starting to agree with her.
Last night's team was only missing Juddy and Scotto and our skills were woeful, Jamison's shank late in the game was just more of the same and Thomas seems to have caught the disease, the best kick in the side is Yarran but he can't get the ball.
After hardly missing a game in our dark years what's being dished up now doesn't excite me, I honestly expected another flag by now.
B4L with all due respect, its blokes you I feel for most. My pain appears insignificant compared to yours. I had serious doubts prior to this season and after just one round, my suspicions have been confirmed. Our side consists of overrated softies who care more about haircuts, fashion, horses and social media than learning how to win a hard ball or take a hit for your team mate. They couldn't give a flying you know what about the club and the jumper. Sad really. And those who think Judd and Carrazzo will make us better, you are in for a rude shock. Very angry ATM. Vent complete.
Was that Ellard's best game for the club ??
Was that Ellard's best game for the club ??
If not his best, it was certainly one of his better games for the club.
We are the worst field kicking side in the AFL bar none, it wouldn't matter who coached us because we just don't have the skill.
The endeavour is fine, but we don't have the cattle.
Quite possibly a good deal of truth in that.
bfl, you were quite a prolific poster on the old site. Gone a bit quiet on the new one.
I've lost a bit of interest given the woeful draw the AFL have handed us.
Three day games for the year, two Sunday nights, half a dozen Sunday 4.40 games, I'm too old for this crape.
Still a passionate Blue Boy, this would have been by 51st year as a member but what's the point when I'll be going to two or three games?
My sister has been a member as long as me and still is, she reckons she's seen her last Carlton flag and I'm starting to agree with her.
Last night's team was only missing Juddy and Scotto and our skills were woeful, Jamison's shank late in the game was just more of the same and Thomas seems to have caught the disease, the best kick in the side is Yarran but he can't get the ball.
After hardly missing a game in our dark years what's being dished up now doesn't excite me, I honestly expected another flag by now.
B4L with all due respect, its blokes you I feel for most. My pain appears insignificant compared to yours. I had serious doubts prior to this season and after just one round, my suspicions have been confirmed. Our side consists of overrated softies who care more about haircuts, fashion, horses and social media than learning how to win a hard ball or take a hit for your team mate. They couldn't give a flying you know what about the club and the jumper. Sad really. And those who think Judd and Carrazzo will make us better, you are in for a rude shock. Very angry ATM. Vent complete.
My under 12's team showed more than any Carlton player on Sunday, a smallish boy protected the ball from a large opposition lad, put his body on the line. Knocked the ball forward to advantage on to the path of a team mate at the same time took a big hit he knew was coming. Simply brilliant. Just wish the Blue boys would do more of this (Simmo excluded, he does that all the time)
Nick graham, Cripps & Casboult in the side and Brock, McInnes & Watson out.
Henderson CHB, Casboult CHF, Nick Graham rover, Cripps ruck rover, Walker forward, Everett back. How hard is this?
Nick graham, Cripps & Casboult in the side and Brock, McInnes & Watson out.
Henderson CHB, Casboult CHF, Nick Graham rover, Cripps ruck rover, Walker forward, Everett back. How hard is this?
Walks won't be playing.
The days of the draft changed everything, the most important person at any club is who makes the call at the draft. For years we lived by Elliot's embarrassing ''we don't rebuild at Carlton'' mantra, more like doctrine! We have suffered. We employed an imbecile called Wayne Hughes who has destroyed any possible chance our team had to build something, through shear ignorance he picked the bleeding obvious and demonstrated zero imagination or foresight to the next tier. Think any late first rounders or second round picks in the last decade. He was lucky with the odd late pick, although Robison now looks every inch a 40 choice, and the occasional rookie .
We now fester in the Hughes created mire.
Trade 'em all.
Complete list restructure. No one is untouchable.
To do this we must recruit one man only, SOS must come home. Look at what he has created in GWS, it is his team. Now is the time to bring him back and rebuild this team from scratch. Trade everyone with any currency, give the team five years, gut this list.
I'd keep only Henderson, Simpson, Murphy, Tuohy, Curnow, Thomas(contractually) and Cripps.
Everyone else is either for trade or delisting. This would be at least a three year program to turn them all over, trade in some experience short term topped up with aggressive trading into the top ten over the three years. Start by offering the likes of Cameron, Patton or Boyd massive contracts, one should be able to be prised out, especially with SOS around.
Seriously this list is f&%#Ed its now or never, probably should have started last year and avoided Daisy et al.
I haven't completely dumped them yet, but they will loose a 40 year supporter if they don't get off their asses and commit to change everything, for us, the heart and soul of this once glorious club.
Tough call on Walker. This incidental contact rule can be confusing at times. He made contact with the ball first, his only other option was to pull out. Strictly applied two players going for a mark, who make incidental head contact and knock each other out, should both be liable for suspension.
The days of the draft changed everything, the most important person at any club is who makes the call at the draft. For years we lived by Elliot's embarrassing ''we don't rebuild at Carlton'' mantra, more like doctrine! We have suffered. We employed an imbecile called Wayne Hughes who has destroyed any possible chance our team had to build something, through shear ignorance he picked the bleeding obvious and demonstrated zero imagination or foresight to the next tier. Think any late first rounders or second round picks in the last decade. He was lucky with the odd late pick, although Robison now looks every inch a 40 choice, and the occasional rookie .
We now fester in the Hughes created mire.
Trade 'em all.
Complete list restructure. No one is untouchable.
To do this we must recruit one man only, SOS must come home. Look at what he has created in GWS, it is his team. Now is the time to bring him back and rebuild this team from scratch. Trade everyone with any currency, give the team five years, gut this list.
I'd keep only Henderson, Simpson, Murphy, Tuohy, Curnow, Thomas(contractually) and Cripps.
Everyone else is either for trade or delisting. This would be at least a three year program to turn them all over, trade in some experience short term topped up with aggressive trading into the top ten over the three years. Start by offering the likes of Cameron, Patton or Boyd massive contracts, one should be able to be prised out, especially with SOS around.
Seriously this list is f&%#Ed its now or never, probably should have started last year and avoided Daisy et al.
I haven't completely dumped them yet, but they will loose a 40 year supporter if they don't get off their asses and commit to change everything, for us, the heart and soul of this once glorious club.
Ballsy post, I was thinking the same but too gutless to post. Respect.
Cheers but actually don't give a flying F%@# at what the vocal minority think (you're excluded of course), expect the same old experts to come on and preach the same old bs about patience and game plans, I only care about ethos and spirit. Lets face it the game plan at Lone Pine stunk, but the courage under fire will live for eternity, I only want 0.1% of that demonstrated in a navy blue jumper at any given opportunity. But I now know that the likes of Gibbs and Kreuser will never be that individual, and that hurts.
Tough call on Walker. This incidental contact rule can be confusing at times. He made contact with the ball first, his only other option was to pull out. Strictly applied two players going for a mark, who make incidental head contact and knock each other out, should both be liable for suspension.
Walker got let off on the Westhoff one, got done for the stupid flinging of Monfries into the fence. Reckless, dangerous and just plane imbecilic.
Cheers but actually don't give a flying F%@# at what the vocal minority think (you're excluded of course), expect the same old experts to come on and preach the same old bs about patience and game plans, I only care about ethos and spirit. Lets face it the game plan at Lone Pine stunk, but the courage under fire will live for eternity, I only want 0.1% of that demonstrated in a navy blue jumper at any given opportunity. But I now know that the likes of Gibbs and Kreuser will never be that individual, and that hurts.
I understand you completely. I myself just want to see every player giving it a red hot go. Playing for the team, as a team and trying to do their best at every execution. Running hard both ways. Trying to stick every tackle. Protecting the ball carrier. Doing all the second and third efforts. Eyes on the ball and trying to win every stoppage. Just doing what ever it takes to do what benefits the entire side. Playing as a team, and not for the individual pay cheque. Gutless, weak efforts are what completely sh1t me. Skill abilities come second place. We need to recruit players that already have established skills. Our recruiting hasn't been great at all. Maybe we need to trade to build a new group of players that have these skills. However, weak and lazy players need to have a rocket up their @rse to either get with it or move on. No more passengers. We have a bus load of them by the look of things. Look at GCS and our work rate in this round one. One side looks like they can achieve anything and the other side looks lucky to stay out of the bottom 4 at the moment. its early days in the season, but the reality might be worse if we continue down this line, waiting to see who will step up.
Tough call on Walker. This incidental contact rule can be confusing at times. He made contact with the ball first, his only other option was to pull out. Strictly applied two players going for a mark, who make incidental head contact and knock each other out, should both be liable for suspension.
Walker got let off on the Westhoff one, got done for the stupid flinging of Monfries into the fence. Reckless, dangerous and just plane imbecilic.
A student of ajar rad Waite, no doubt.
You know that reading through this thread we are still discussing the same issues as we were last year, the year before, the year before that etc. etc. In other words nothing, and I mean a big fat zero, has changed. We were crape, it looks like we still are crape, and I don't see any signs atm that we we won't be crape into the foreseeable future. This sort of echoes a post from Blueforlife earlier.
I can't see a way forward for us atm unless there are some significant changes both on and off the field. Maybe I'm being a bit negative but it has been a long cold period now since we've felt the warming rays of real hope. I was really down after last night's game and it has crushed what optimism and excitement I had for the new season.
Even if we beat the Tigers and Bummers, I feel that it will be just another false dawn. I need to see some consistent winning form to get my enthusiasm back I'm afraid. >:(
Cheers but actually don't give a flying F%@# at what the vocal minority think (you're excluded of course), expect the same old experts to come on and preach the same old bs about patience and game plans, I only care about ethos and spirit. Lets face it the game plan at Lone Pine stunk, but the courage under fire will live for eternity, I only want 0.1% of that demonstrated in a navy blue jumper at any given opportunity. But I now know that the likes of Gibbs and Kreuser will never be that individual, and that hurts.
I understand you completely. I myself just want to see every player giving it a red hot go. Playing for the team, as a team and trying to do their best at every execution. Running hard both ways. Trying to stick every tackle. Protecting the ball carrier. Doing all the second and third efforts. Eyes on the ball and trying to win every stoppage. Just doing what ever it takes to do what benefits the entire side. Playing as a team, and not for the individual pay cheque.
Mantis me old mate, almost spot on. You just needed to add the words "week in week out no matter who runs out" after the above.
We don't protect the ball carrier to any level that is comparable with other clubs, it not part of our culture. :-[
Oh and last time I saw Casboult ruck he went pretty well.. Definitely not a terrible call IMO..
Casboult has the turning circle of a Mack truck and can't kick to save his life, it's desperation stakes if we're pinning our hopes on him.
Warnock is average, but Casboult is sub average.
Well turning circles have nothing to do with ruck work, and his disposal is on par with half of our team.. But he can atleast take marks in the forward line...
IMO I'd drop Kreuzer for Casboult. Thats my opinion and Im sticking to it until Kreuzer gives us something.
Hang on - so are you saying Casboult is a ruckman or a forward???
Cheers but actually don't give a flying F%@# at what the vocal minority think (you're excluded of course), expect the same old experts to come on and preach the same old bs about patience and game plans, I only care about ethos and spirit. Lets face it the game plan at Lone Pine stunk, but the courage under fire will live for eternity, I only want 0.1% of that demonstrated in a navy blue jumper at any given opportunity. But I now know that the likes of Gibbs and Kreuser will never be that individual, and that hurts.
I understand you completely. I myself just want to see every player giving it a red hot go. Playing for the team, as a team and trying to do their best at every execution. Running hard both ways. Trying to stick every tackle. Protecting the ball carrier. Doing all the second and third efforts. Eyes on the ball and trying to win every stoppage. Just doing what ever it takes to do what benefits the entire side. Playing as a team, and not for the individual pay cheque.
Mantis me old mate, almost spot on. You just needed to add the words "week in week out no matter who runs out" after the above.
Just got back from work interstate and am now grateful I wasn't here to attend that game, especially to witness that last quarter capitulation. Watched the replay late last night. Who were those blokes in the Kreuzer and McLean jumpers? Coupla rough looking blokes from the crowd? McInnes... sorry, but nuh.
If you start slowly but get into stride and finish well, mmm, there's something there to build on. But when you start well (probably because your opponent hasn't yet gotten into stride) and slowly dwindle, show a bit, then completely give up - something's crook in Tootgarook.
Our pre-season form was to play 80 minutes of football... and to ensure we going missing in the final quarter (which now might become a psychological problem) and guess what, viola, it continued into the season proper.
We may, at this stage, be the softest side (between the lugholes) in the comp.
Oh and last time I saw Casboult ruck he went pretty well.. Definitely not a terrible call IMO..
Casboult has the turning circle of a Mack truck and can't kick to save his life, it's desperation stakes if we're pinning our hopes on him.
Warnock is average, but Casboult is sub average.
Well turning circles have nothing to do with ruck work, and his disposal is on par with half of our team.. But he can atleast take marks in the forward line...
IMO I'd drop Kreuzer for Casboult. Thats my opinion and Im sticking to it until Kreuzer gives us something.
Hang on - so are you saying Casboult is a ruckman or a forward???
He's a forward who can help out in the ruck when Warnock needs a break.
No offence to Slug Ellard, but when someone 1 metre tall and 17 kgs (your smallest mid) is your best player, you know you're in trouble.
He's a forward who can help out in the ruck when Warnock needs a break.
The last time Casboult relief rucked for Warnock it was an unmitigated disaster. Warnock gained ascendancy then went off the ground late in the 1st quarter. At that time Casboult was bent over the opposition ruckmen for a good 5 minutes from which they ended up full of confidence and smashed us for the rest of the match.
Oh and last time I saw Casboult ruck he went pretty well.. Definitely not a terrible call IMO..
Casboult has the turning circle of a Mack truck and can't kick to save his life, it's desperation stakes if we're pinning our hopes on him.
Warnock is average, but Casboult is sub average.
Well turning circles have nothing to do with ruck work, and his disposal is on par with half of our team.. But he can atleast take marks in the forward line...
IMO I'd drop Kreuzer for Casboult. Thats my opinion and Im sticking to it until Kreuzer gives us something.
Hang on - so are you saying Casboult is a ruckman or a forward???
He's a forward who can help out in the ruck when Warnock needs a break.
Agree, our second ruck should definitely primarily have good forward abilities as long as he is a passably competent ruckman. We seem to have a bit of a problem in that neither Kreuz nor Levi has yet shown the require abilities as a forward yet. Maybe worth trying but I wouldn't expect a massive improvement by bringing in Levi tbh - or Rowe for that matter.
Another disappointing aspect of the game was that we again found ourselves out numbered at many stoppages. Maybe it was a fitness thing but given our rich history of doing this it suggests we still don't want to work hard enough.
Another disappointing aspect of the game was that we again found ourselves out numbered at many stoppages. Maybe it was a fitness thing but given our rich history of doing this it suggests we still don't want to work hard enough.
Too many show ponies and not enough war horses.
Warnock is a dud and we should trade him out......having a ruckman who cant mark the ball or play anywhere else but the pine isnt good enough in the modern game....I dont care how many hitouts he gets.
Casboult would be better value even with his diminished ruck skills...I d rather a player who can mark the footy and give us something around the ground and up forward. He can learn to ruck with experience.
Kruezer only plays well as No 1 ruckman and can be some value allbeit rarely of late around the ground and up forward....
Its a no brainer to me that 206 needs relocating to another club......
Warnock is a dud and we should trade him out......having a ruckman who cant mark the ball or play anywhere else but the pine isnt good enough in the modern game....I dont care how many hitouts he gets.
Casboult would be better value even with his diminished ruck skills...I d rather a player who can mark the footy and give us something around the ground and up forward. He can learn to ruck with experience.
Kruezer only plays well as No 1 ruckman and can be some value allbeit rarely of late around the ground and up forward....
Its a no brainer to me that 206 needs relocating to another club......
Id agree with this.
Elwood, where do you sit with MK, Yazz and Gibbs as other possible outgoings?
Warnock is a dud and we should trade him out......having a ruckman who cant mark the ball or play anywhere else but the pine isnt good enough in the modern game....I dont care how many hitouts he gets.
Casboult would be better value even with his diminished ruck skills...I d rather a player who can mark the footy and give us something around the ground and up forward. He can learn to ruck with experience.
Kruezer only plays well as No 1 ruckman and can be some value allbeit rarely of late around the ground and up forward....
Its a no brainer to me that 206 needs relocating to another club......
Id agree with this.
Elwood, where do you sit with MK, Yazz and Gibbs as other possible outgoings?
Apologies for butting in here, but i offer two reasons for keeping Yazz and Bryce :
1. we are crap at trading, and we will in all likelihood end up being dudded with worse players than those two.
2. They are probably the two best kicks in our team, an area in which we are grossly deficient.
As for krooz, I can't make the hard calls, so no comment from me.
Warnock is a dud and we should trade him out......having a ruckman who cant mark the ball or play anywhere else but the pine isnt good enough in the modern game....I dont care how many hitouts he gets.
Casboult would be better value even with his diminished ruck skills...I d rather a player who can mark the footy and give us something around the ground and up forward. He can learn to ruck with experience.
Kruezer only plays well as No 1 ruckman and can be some value allbeit rarely of late around the ground and up forward....
Its a no brainer to me that 206 needs relocating to another club......
Id agree with this.
Elwood, where do you sit with MK, Yazz and Gibbs as other possible outgoings?
Something has to give Pratty..........dont have a problem with trading any of those players as long as we get a good return that helps fix problems on our list.
Warnock is a dud and we should trade him out......having a ruckman who cant mark the ball or play anywhere else but the pine isnt good enough in the modern game....I dont care how many hitouts he gets.
Casboult would be better value even with his diminished ruck skills...I d rather a player who can mark the footy and give us something around the ground and up forward. He can learn to ruck with experience.
Kruezer only plays well as No 1 ruckman and can be some value allbeit rarely of late around the ground and up forward....
Its a no brainer to me that 206 needs relocating to another club......
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-03-17/swans-troubled-by-big-issue
Looks like the Swans may be on the look out for a ruckman for next year. Maybe we should be talking to them about a suitable trade for Warnock before too long? They may be desperate and jump at a deal?
Murphy needs to learn how to Captain.
Too many times on at crucial stages on Sunday, he shirked responsibility and through his actions, deflated team and supporter morale.
Captains Effort Fail 1
Running into goal late in the 2nd term he should ve gone for it himself, but handballed to he of fantastic skills Robbo, wjo missed a virtually open goal. Would ve put us 2 and half goals up and grabbed some momentum going into half time.
Captains Effort Fail 2
Late in the 3rd qtr, he takes a mark inside 50 on a slight angle. Captains goal time we all thought, as a goal would ve stretched the lead out to over two goals. What does he do ? Sh*t himself, and handball over to Touhy who misses.
Captains Effort Fail 3
Early in the last term, Murphy gets the ball on the wing and bursts forward with Gibbs open for a handpass and then an opportunity for a shot at goal. What does Murph do ? Hold onto the ball too long, and then fluff the pass to Gibbs, Port get the ball take it down the field and get the first goal of the last, so instead of being 2 goals up and with the momentum of the 1st goal of the last quarter, momentum swung Ports ways and we never got it back.
At least under Judd, while he wasn't the most vocal captain, cometh the hour, cometh the man. We all remember countless games over the years when games were on the line, when Judd stepped up as Captain and just said ' come with me' and the troops have followed.
Murphy needs to learn how to Captain.
If the rumors are true he was injured and probably should not have been out there, perhaps if Judd, Carrazzo and Scotland had be right to play in the 1s he may have not played!
Murphy needs to learn how to Captain.
If the rumors are true he was injured and probably should not have been out there, perhaps if Judd, Carrazzo and Scotland had be right to play in the 1s he may have not played!
Wow the excuses have started already! Looked fine in the first quarter to me.
Murphy needs to learn how to Captain.
Too many times on at crucial stages on Sunday, he shirked responsibility and through his actions, deflated team and supporter morale.
Captains Effort Fail 1
Running into goal late in the 2nd term he should ve gone for it himself, but handballed to he of fantastic skills Robbo, wjo missed a virtually open goal. Would ve put us 2 and half goals up and grabbed some momentum going into half time.
Captains Effort Fail 2
Late in the 3rd qtr, he takes a mark inside 50 on a slight angle. Captains goal time we all thought, as a goal would ve stretched the lead out to over two goals. What does he do ? Sh*t himself, and handball over to Touhy who misses.
Captains Effort Fail 3
Early in the last term, Murphy gets the ball on the wing and bursts forward with Gibbs open for a handpass and then an opportunity for a shot at goal. What does Murph do ? Hold onto the ball too long, and then fluff the pass to Gibbs, Port get the ball take it down the field and get the first goal of the last, so instead of being 2 goals up and with the momentum of the 1st goal of the last quarter, momentum swung Ports ways and we never got it back.
At least under Judd, while he wasn't the most vocal captain, cometh the hour, cometh the man. We all remember countless games over the years when games were on the line, when Judd stepped up as Captain and just said ' come with me' and the troops have followed.
Being captain has made him guilty about being selfish....he needs to told to be selfish because he is one of our best players and we want the ball in his hands.....if he cant do it then I would find a new captain...
Murphy needs to learn how to Captain.
If the rumors are true he was injured and probably should not have been out there, perhaps if Judd, Carrazzo and Scotland had be right to play in the 1s he may have not played!
Wow the excuses have started already! Looked fine in the first quarter to me.
You know the media questioned his fitness before the game on Saturday press conference, what is your agenda?
Further it was reported here that he has been suffering back spasms and we know he received a lot of lower back attention from physiology staff on the boundary line.
But as the saying goes if you cross the line you are fit and I haven't heard Murphy making excuses.
No agenda, just think it's funny there is always an excuse for him but everyone else is sheizen. And he certainly didn't start the game like he was nursing an injury. Not saying Murphy himself has the excuses, more people on here.
No agenda, just think it's funny there is always an excuse for him but everyone else is sheizen. And he certainly didn't start the game like he was nursing an injury.
Not everyone is Shizen, just a good few! ;D
Murphy needs to learn how to Captain.
Too many times on at crucial stages on Sunday, he shirked responsibility and through his actions, deflated team and supporter morale.
Captains Effort Fail 1
Running into goal late in the 2nd term he should ve gone for it himself, but handballed to he of fantastic skills Robbo, wjo missed a virtually open goal. Would ve put us 2 and half goals up and grabbed some momentum going into half time.
Captains Effort Fail 2
Late in the 3rd qtr, he takes a mark inside 50 on a slight angle. Captains goal time we all thought, as a goal would ve stretched the lead out to over two goals. What does he do ? Sh*t himself, and handball over to Touhy who misses.
Captains Effort Fail 3
Early in the last term, Murphy gets the ball on the wing and bursts forward with Gibbs open for a handpass and then an opportunity for a shot at goal. What does Murph do ? Hold onto the ball too long, and then fluff the pass to Gibbs, Port get the ball take it down the field and get the first goal of the last, so instead of being 2 goals up and with the momentum of the 1st goal of the last quarter, momentum swung Ports ways and we never got it back.
At least under Judd, while he wasn't the most vocal captain, cometh the hour, cometh the man. We all remember countless games over the years when games were on the line, when Judd stepped up as Captain and just said ' come with me' and the troops have followed.
For 1 & 2, he would have been kicking from outside 50 m. If no.3 is the one I'm thinking of, I thought he should have had a ping himself.
Judd was also guilty of that as Captain.
To do this we must recruit one man only, SOS must come home. Look at what he has created in GWS, it is his team. Now is the time to bring him back and rebuild this team from scratch. Trade everyone with any currency, give the team five years, gut this list.
With all due respect to SOS, he has had 22 top 10 draft picks to work with. I could have picked those blokes and come up smelling of roses. Still would love to have the great man back home and I agree with you that it may well be time to gut the list and start the re-build. I honestly believe we have missed the boat as far as challenging for the flag goes and the way GWS is traveling they'll be so hard to beat in 2-3 years it may pay to bypass their era and have a real crack when they're on the decline. I will most probably be retired by then. :(
How do Port have the ball 50 more times than us (twice as much) in the last quarter yet win the tackle count 14-4?
Just saw that stat on OTC and Geard states the bleeding obvious, no leadership.
How do Port have the ball 50 more times than us (twice as much) in the last quarter yet win the tackle count 14-4?
Just saw that stat on OTC and Geard states the bleeding obvious, no leadership.
I have just come to the sobering conclusion that we are Richmond. FFS, how the @#&% did it all come to this??
Going alright to 3/4 time then badly ran out of legs. Reckon we were struggling to keep running by half time. Did a good job to come back again in the 3rd qtr but physically we were done. No different to the lead-up games. hope it doesn't take too long for the match fitness to get up to par.
Our side is frustrating but never boring. We can be so brilliant and so bad in the same game. Great start, the good, the usual nana nap, the bad, the 3rd qtr comeback when in trouble, the good, then die a death, the bad.
Going alright to 3/4 time then badly ran out of legs. Reckon we were struggling to keep running by half time. Did a good job to come back again in the 3rd qtr but physically we were done. No different to the lead-up games. hope it doesn't take too long for the match fitness to get up to par.
Our side is frustrating but never boring. We can be so brilliant and so bad in the same game. Great start, the good, the usual nana nap, the bad, the 3rd qtr comeback when in trouble, the good, then die a death, the bad.
Was wondering where you'd got to.
I agree FWIW.
Going alright to 3/4 time then badly ran out of legs. Reckon we were struggling to keep running by half time. Did a good job to come back again in the 3rd qtr but physically we were done. No different to the lead-up games. hope it doesn't take too long for the match fitness to get up to par.
Our side is frustrating but never boring. We can be so brilliant and so bad in the same game. Great start, the good, the usual nana nap, the bad, the 3rd qtr comeback when in trouble, the good, then die a death, the bad.
Not sure Jimbo, you blamed it on the fitness and then went on to say it's typical of us anyway.
Tough call on Walker. This incidental contact rule can be confusing at times. He made contact with the ball first, his only other option was to pull out. Strictly applied two players going for a mark, who make incidental head contact and knock each other out, should both be liable for suspension.
Walker got let off on the Westhoff one, got done for the stupid flinging of Monfries into the fence. Reckless, dangerous and just plane imbecilic.
:-[ sorry, I hadn't realized that it was for the fence slam...iin that case he's lucky to only get 1 game suspension.
I called it.
You guys are confident, I'm not. I'll be happy with a win.
I've picked Port, we were pretty much even with them last season and we haven't had the best preparation with most of our best players under injury clouds.
I called it.
You guys are confident, I'm not. I'll be happy with a win.
I've picked Port, we were pretty much even with them last season and we haven't had the best preparation with most of our best players under injury clouds.
You did indeed. Good call MBB. Not that you're boasting or anything, just being objective and stating the facts.
Wasted my time and money to travel down from Sydney to watch this game, what a waste, but it wont be happening again.
Felt that when Krooz went into the ruck is when Port flogged us in the clearances not that it was perfect when Warnock was rucking but it was a lot better.
I say trade Krooz for a bag of peanuts at seasons end....
I called it.
You guys are confident, I'm not. I'll be happy with a win.
I've picked Port, we were pretty much even with them last season and we haven't had the best preparation with most of our best players under injury clouds.
Very true I too was less than confident but most others had us accounting for them quite easily. I tipped Carlton myself but I wont be against Richmond. Hopefully I can be the Tiges kiss of death! :))
Wasted my time and money to travel down from Sydney to watch this game, what a waste, but it wont be happening again.
Damn you were ripped off hard! I feel for you.
Wasted my time and money to travel down from Sydney to watch this game, what a waste, but it wont be happening again.
Felt that when Krooz went into the ruck is when Port flogged us in the clearances not that it was perfect when Warnock was rucking but it was a lot better.
I say trade Krooz for a bag of peanuts at seasons end....
Ridgey that was cruel.............I thought I'd been hard done by because I didn't get home till after midnight due to rail works on our line.
How do Port have the ball 50 more times than us (twice as much) in the last quarter yet win the tackle count 14-4?
Just saw that stat on OTC and Geard states the bleeding obvious, no leadership.
Its been said before, but i think it comes down to fitness.
I heard on the radio that the Port list are freakishly fit.
Matt White was apparantly the fittest bloke at Richmond and used to win all their time trials and what not.
When he went to Port, he was relegated to 7th at the club. So including him, Port have 16% of their list fitter than everyone at the Tigers. I suspect that its not just a Richmond issue either.
Ken Hinkley said that this was not actually by design, they just happened to have heaps of freak athletes at the club and have started taking advantage of it.
Wasted my time and money to travel down from Sydney to watch this game, what a waste, but it wont be happening again.
Felt that when Krooz went into the ruck is when Port flogged us in the clearances not that it was perfect when Warnock was rucking but it was a lot better.
I say trade Krooz for a bag of peanuts at seasons end....
Always seems so much more expensive when we perform like that.
A lot of pundits also recognised that when Kreuz went into the ruck, Port improved. But as MM pointed out, you couldn't ruck 206 for all 4 quarters.
Kreuz would be well under done and we should look at leaving him in the NB's for a while and bring Wood in.
Wasted my time and money to travel down from Sydney to watch this game, what a waste, but it wont be happening again.
Felt that when Krooz went into the ruck is when Port flogged us in the clearances not that it was perfect when Warnock was rucking but it was a lot better.
I say trade Krooz for a bag of peanuts at seasons end....
Its to late now to trade him unless some one offers well above fair. Best time to trade him was 2 seasons ago, he'll make a decent backup ruck-man or backup forward or backup backman. OR perhaps even a specialist all-rounder sub ie a ruck rover mid forward back.
Kreuz would be well under done and we should look at leaving him in the NB's for a while and bring Wood in.
Not sure if Wood can play (Rookie). But if he can you'd certainly bring him in for Kreuz and give the big truck a week or two in the twos to further get used to giving us something up forward... and around the ground.
Kreuz was not Robinson Crusoe in the 'underdone' stakes. MM mentioned it and gave it as a 'reason, not excuse' for our fade. Behind closed doors I reckon this is galling him. Brock said it was the hardest pre season he'd ever done... so what gives, eh?
MM mentioned match hardening. Well, Port were in the same boat as us... 3 pre season games, some blokes playing only 1 or 2 games. Yet they looked as if they'd been playing for a month and we looked as if it was our first hit out for the year.
The only thing, for me, that softens the blow a little is that the Fluffy Ducks also looked flat and not ready.
By the time the 'Go Dees' roll around we'll know a lot more about where we are. And excuses won't work.
Kreuz would be well under done and we should look at leaving him in the NB's for a while and bring Wood in.
Not sure if Wood can play (Rookie). But if he can you'd certainly bring him in for Kreuz and give the big truck a week or two in the twos to further get used to giving us something up forward... and around the ground.
Kreuz was not Robinson Crusoe in the 'underdone' stakes. MM mentioned it and gave it as a 'reason, not excuse' for our fade. Behind closed doors I reckon this is galling him. Brock said it was the hardest pre season he'd ever done... so what gives, eh?
MM mentioned match hardening. Well, Port were in the same boat as us... 3 pre season games, some blokes playing only 1 or 2 games. Yet they looked as if they'd been playing for a month and we looked as if it was our first hit out for the year.
The only thing, for me, that softens the blow a little is that the Fluffy Ducks also looked flat and not ready.
By the time the 'Go Dees' roll around we'll know a lot more about where we are. And excuses won't work.
Wood before Kruiz, is an easy choice atm. id be happy to have Kruiz play in 2nds for the whole of 2014 will help him get his body right, build up fitness and end this ever repeating cycle of almost there.
How do Port have the ball 50 more times than us (twice as much) in the last quarter yet win the tackle count 14-4?
Just saw that stat on OTC and Geard states the bleeding obvious, no leadership.
Its been said before, but i think it comes down to fitness.
Nup sorry. 10 tackles I could accept but 4 tackles is clearly an effort thing. Especially with the game slipping away.
How do Port have the ball 50 more times than us (twice as much) in the last quarter yet win the tackle count 14-4?
Just saw that stat on OTC and Geard states the bleeding obvious, no leadership.
Its been said before, but i think it comes down to fitness.
Nup sorry. 10 tackles I could accept but 4 tackles is clearly an effort thing. Especially with the game slipping away.
Why does it have to be one or the other?
It's clearly both.
Yeah I can accept that it's both. But the lack of effort can't be blamed on anything but lack of heart. IMO anyway. The chips were down and we lubed ourselves up and bent over in acceptance.
Did anyone manage to buy a beer on SUnday at Shocklands? $7.20 for mid-strength beer!!!!
Did anyone manage to buy a beer on SUnday at Shocklands? $7.20 for mid-strength beer!!!!
I switched to Cougar in the second half. $10 for a can but at least it was genuine. $7 for half strength rubbish is just a joke.
$9 for a Crownie in the social club is ok, but if you are at the ground, there's no point watching the game on the screens in there.
Hip flask for me from now on. ;)
How do Port have the ball 50 more times than us (twice as much) in the last quarter yet win the tackle count 14-4?
Just saw that stat on OTC and Geard states the bleeding obvious, no leadership.
Its been said before, but i think it comes down to fitness.
I heard on the radio that the Port list are freakishly fit.
Matt White was apparantly the fittest bloke at Richmond and used to win all their time trials and what not.
When he went to Port, he was relegated to 7th at the club. So including him, Port have 16% of their list fitter than everyone at the Tigers. I suspect that its not just a Richmond issue either.
Ken Hinkley said that this was not actually by design, they just happened to have heaps of freak athletes at the club and have started taking advantage of it.
we've got buttinfat
How do Port have the ball 50 more times than us (twice as much) in the last quarter yet win the tackle count 14-4?
Just saw that stat on OTC and Geard states the bleeding obvious, no leadership.
Its been said before, but i think it comes down to fitness.
I heard on the radio that the Port list are freakishly fit.
Matt White was apparantly the fittest bloke at Richmond and used to win all their time trials and what not.
When he went to Port, he was relegated to 7th at the club. So including him, Port have 16% of their list fitter than everyone at the Tigers. I suspect that its not just a Richmond issue either.
Ken Hinkley said that this was not actually by design, they just happened to have heaps of freak athletes at the club and have started taking advantage of it.
we've got buttinfat
Port and the Crows are all built like tanks.
Freak athletes my freckle.
Did anyone manage to buy a beer on SUnday at Shocklands? $7.20 for mid-strength beer!!!!
I switched to Cougar in the second half. $10 for a can but at least it was genuine. $7 for half strength rubbish is just a joke.
$9 for a Crownie in the social club is ok, but if you are at the ground, there's no point watching the game on the screens in there.
My mum bought a packet of snakes... for $6!
This fitness issue is not the first time I have heard on the radio. Wayne Carey was commentating on the radio and at the end of the third quarter stated Port would surge against us in the last quarter and win the game. he stated they worked extra hard on their cardio fitness for the previous season and that is why they played well in 2013. He stated they have worked even harder before this season. He said teams like Port are better prepared to run game out in the last quarter. Capable of running hard both ways the entire game to be more competitive. Fitter teams have better skills when the other side experiences fatigue and struggle to hurt on the score board. He was convinced Carlton needed a 4 goal or more buffer before the last quarter to stand a chance of winning this game.
I have also heard other commentators comment on Ports fitness in the past. if we seriously lack in this area then we can forget getting this season off to a flyer, and will be playing catch up through the entire season to just make the top 8 or even miss out entirely. Buttifant needs to consider if he has done his job in this area. Sure injuries effect some of our players, but we didn't have 22 players with injury issues before this game started on the weekend. Not being critical here, and just stating what I have heard. I laughed at the time, and now I find it far less funny than I originally did.
Our season is b0rked, I just heard Malthouse has been pumping up Warnock for his great efforts on Sunday.
Really, check out the stats washup HERE (http://finalsiren.com/MatchDetails.asp?GameID=6647&Code=a69b6c4dd664ce913cba54ff796034ee)
Tell me if you think that equates, maybe MM meant Lobbe?
Our season is b0rked, I just heard Malthouse has been pumping up Warnock for his great efforts on Sunday.
Really, check out the stats washup HERE (http://finalsiren.com/MatchDetails.asp?GameID=6647&Code=a69b6c4dd664ce913cba54ff796034ee)
Tell me if you think that equates, maybe MM meant Lobbe?
x2....Warnock isnt up to it...206cm and cannot take a mark, had the drop on a player in the goal square and fumbled it through for a behind. This where the better teams beat us... a B grade plodder like David Hale would have swallowed that and converted...its these little moments in play that kill you...like when Murphy handpassed to Robbo when he should have kicked it.
Malthouse must smoking something if he reckons Warnock dominated.....I thought Lobbe dominated the last quarter.....please we have a No 1 pick in Kruezer and a 206 giant in Warnock and we get towelled up by some non descript like Lobbe. We aint buying what you are selling Mick and I dont want anymore rotation excuses like last year or fitness excuses like this season.....
Mick knows as much as anyone that reality is secondary.
x2....Warnock isnt up to it...206cm and cannot take a mark, had the drop on a player in the goal square and fumbled it through for a behind. This where the better teams beat us... a B grade plodder like David Hale would have swallowed that and converted...its these little moments in play that kill you...like when Murphy handpassed to Robbo when he should have kicked it.
EB I have been waiting for this guy to click for 5 years, but there is a warning sign. When he goes down the 2s he does the very same thing at a level he should clearly dominate. All he gets are taps, the very odd marks and bugger all possessions. Casboult tends to do same thing which is why I am now a serious doubter, the kid should be smashing them in the 2s week in and week out.
By comparison Wood goes to the 2s and dominates in tap outs and stands up around the ground, same thing for Rowe but usually being played out of position, even Hammer use to stand out in the 2s compared to those opponents.
Malthouse must smoking something if he reckons Warnock dominated.....I thought Lobbe dominated the last quarter.....please we have a No 1 pick in Kruezer and a 206 giant in Warnock and we get towelled up by some non descript like Lobbe. We aint buying what you are selling Mick and I dont want anymore rotation excuses like last year or fitness excuses like this season.....
Lobbe is not too bad really, but he should not be competitive or winning against Warnock and Kreuzer in combination, that is self evident. Have a look at Lobbe stats for the match, he did that almost single handedly against Warnock and Kreuzer.
Is there some irony here, Mick Malthouse has a mantra that players need to be flexible yet he backs in a one trick tap pony?
Haven't read any of this thread, so sorry if I repeat!
I don't know what Mick told the boys b4 the game, but our 1st qtr was a beauty !!!
But our boys seem to have short memories. the message was only partially followed in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs and completely forgotten in the 4th !!!
I reckon that collectively our boys are the type that need a rocket up them every qtr, just to keep them on their toes and motivated. Back off from them and they retreat back into their shells very very quickly.
Just a thought I had anyway.
x2....Warnock isnt up to it...206cm and cannot take a mark, had the drop on a player in the goal square and fumbled it through for a behind. This where the better teams beat us... a B grade plodder like David Hale would have swallowed that and converted...its these little moments in play that kill you...like when Murphy handpassed to Robbo when he should have kicked it.
EB I have been waiting for this guy to click for 5 years, but there is a warning sign. When he goes down the 2s he does the very same thing at a level he should clearly dominate. All he gets are taps, the very odd marks and bugger all possessions. Casboult tends to do same thing which is why I am now a serious doubter, the kid should be smashing them in the 2s week in and week out.
By comparison Wood goes to the 2s and dominates in tap outs and stands up around the ground, same thing for Rowe but usually being played out of position, even Hammer use to stand out in the 2s compared to those opponents.
Malthouse must smoking something if he reckons Warnock dominated.....I thought Lobbe dominated the last quarter.....please we have a No 1 pick in Kruezer and a 206 giant in Warnock and we get towelled up by some non descript like Lobbe. We aint buying what you are selling Mick and I dont want anymore rotation excuses like last year or fitness excuses like this season.....
Lobbe is not too bad really, but he should not be competitive or winning against Warnock and Kreuzer in combination, that is self evident. Have a look at Lobbe stats for the match, he did that almost single handedly against Warnock and Kreuzer.
Is there some irony here, Mick Malthouse has a mantra that players need to be flexible yet he backs in a one trick tap pony?
Warnock got injured during the game and played it out.
Haven't read any of this thread, so sorry if I repeat!
I don't know what Mick told the boys b4 the game, but our 1st qtr was a beauty !!!
But our boys seem to have short memories. the message was only partially followed in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs and completely forgotten in the 4th !!!
I reckon that collectively our boys are the type that need a rocket up them every qtr, just to keep them on their toes and motivated. Back off from them and they retreat back into their shells very very quickly.
Just a thought I had anyway.
Can't really ride on emotion like that. First, it's covering up bigger problems and eventually it will start to wear off. Need something more substantial than the rocket evey quarter. Every now and again, okay.
Our efforts in this game, especially Q4, were definitely a massive disappointment and I came home quite shattered. It's taken me a couple of days or more to get over it - I was pretty angry actually.
However, I recall last year posting that I will keep my powder dry until I've seen how we are playing by about R10 this year before making a judgement call so I guess I will stick to that. No more judgements as to our likely future prospects from me until then, if I can possibly help myself! I'll stick to just commenting on our actual performance in each game.
I just can't face the prospect atm of a massive rebuild and more years in the wilderness so I just hope for the best for now - and that's all it it is - hope.
Bottom line in a game of footy is if you can't win the ball from the stoppages you don't win the game.....
Even when our rucks win the tap, it seems seldom do they tap it to one of our player's advantage......
I'd be getting game type into Cripps pronto - not much to lose.....
Be revving up Cameron Wood too (does he need an LTI to get a gig?)
Kreuzer has been the biggest disappointment of all for mine - is he still injured or is it a mind thing or......?
@FB77
Agree about Cripps totally. Robbo and Bell didn't show anything that suggested they are improving AFAIC so we must look for other options pronto. Cripps looks like he's well worth a run for starters.
Haven't read any of this thread, so sorry if I repeat!
I don't know what Mick told the boys b4 the game, but our 1st qtr was a beauty !!!
But our boys seem to have short memories. the message was only partially followed in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs and completely forgotten in the 4th !!!
I reckon that collectively our boys are the type that need a rocket up them every qtr, just to keep them on their toes and motivated. Back off from them and they retreat back into their shells very very quickly.
Just a thought I had anyway.
Can't really ride on emotion like that. First, it's covering up bigger problems and eventually it will start to wear off. Need something more substantial than the rocket evey quarter. Every now and again, okay.
I agree that this approach would be unsustainable. But (to me anyway) it says something about our players that they seem to need this sort of approach to keep them motivated.
What upset me the most about the loss was that we just did not show any heart in the way we down in the final qtr. IMO a team with any pride at all would not let that kind of qtr happen to them, at least not for a whole qtr. Our boys in Navy Blue seem to let it(large lapses) happen to them all too often, for my liking anyway.
Amers we started very strongly in 3 of the 4 finals we played in under Ratts, finding the right intensity has never been our issue, maintaining it is the problem.
Amers we started very strongly in 3 of the 4 finals we played in under Ratts, finding the right intensity has never been our issue, maintaining it is the problem.
Still talking about Ratts is living somewhat in the past. Time to move on.
The only 'past' that is relevant is that part of our past where we were ruthless in getting the very best people into the positions of most influence at the club. Getting Swann, then Pratty into the place was consistent with that attitude, as was targetting MM or Roos as the replacement for Ratts. But gee it falls away rapidly after that...
Amers we started very strongly in 3 of the 4 finals we played in under Ratts, finding the right intensity has never been our issue, maintaining it is the problem.
Still talking about Ratts is living somewhat in the past. Time to move on.
Ok then.
Amers in our finals in 2009,2010 and 2011 we started every one bar one of those games with a flurry of goals. Pretty sure vs Lions in 2009 it was 3 goals to zip, against the Eagles it was 4 goals to zip (Murphy missed a few sitters to make it 6) and against the scum we didn't kick straight but still led by a few goals quarter time. Starting quickly has never been an issue, maintaining it for 4 quarters is the problem. Or even a half now TBH.
Amers we started very strongly in 3 of the 4 finals we played in under Ratts, finding the right intensity has never been our issue, maintaining it is the problem.
Still talking about Ratts is living somewhat in the past. Time to move on.
Ok then.
Amers in our finals in 2009,2010 and 2011 we started every one bar one of those games with a flurry of goals. Pretty sure vs Lions in 2009 it was 3 goals to zip, against the Eagles it was 4 goals to zip (Murphy missed a few sitters to make it 6) and against the scum we didn't kick straight but still led by a few goals quarter time. Starting quickly has never been an issue, maintaining it for 4 quarters is the problem. Or even a half now TBH.
LOL
Is it a fitness thing then or a concentration issue? Or something else? Either way, why hasn't it been addressed already?
I feel that when we are seriously challenged we take a backward step, both mentally and physically. Blokes like Robbo are left to do the hard stuff themselves and are put under more pressure and exposed for their weaknesses when in reality, if our prettier players stood up to the challenge we may be ok.
Amers we started very strongly in 3 of the 4 finals we played in under Ratts, finding the right intensity has never been our issue, maintaining it is the problem.
Still talking about Ratts is living somewhat in the past. Time to move on.
Ok then.
Amers in our finals in 2009,2010 and 2011 we started every one bar one of those games with a flurry of goals. Pretty sure vs Lions in 2009 it was 3 goals to zip, against the Eagles it was 4 goals to zip (Murphy missed a few sitters to make it 6) and against the scum we didn't kick straight but still led by a few goals quarter time. Starting quickly has never been an issue, maintaining it for 4 quarters is the problem. Or even a half now TBH.
LOL
Is it a fitness thing then or a concentration issue? Or something else? Either way, why hasn't it been addressed already?
Not wanting to run both ways ALL the game and probably getting lost in traffic and not wanting to man up someone elses man when the going gets tough.
I feel that when we are seriously challenged we take a backward step, both mentally and physically. Blokes like Robbo are left to do the hard stuff themselves and are put under more pressure and exposed for their weaknesses when in reality, if our prettier players stood up to the challenge we may be ok.
This line of thinking is why we fall over.
If someone stood up we would be okay.
Rather than wondering where something is going to come from, we might be better off if people just did it themselves.
This line of thinking is why we fall over.
We think? :o
I feel that when we are seriously challenged we take a backward step, both mentally and physically. Blokes like Robbo are left to do the hard stuff themselves and are put under more pressure and exposed for their weaknesses when in reality, if our prettier players stood up to the challenge we may be ok.
So we have some 'pretty' players who are soft either physically and/or mentally ?!!
Maybe we could use a sponsor like Boral, who could provide a bit of concrete and help them harden up !!
I feel that when we are seriously challenged we take a backward step, both mentally and physically. Blokes like Robbo are left to do the hard stuff themselves and are put under more pressure and exposed for their weaknesses when in reality, if our prettier players stood up to the challenge we may be ok.
So we have some 'pretty' players who are soft either physically and/or mentally ?!!
Maybe we could use a sponsor like Boral, who could provide a bit of concrete and help them harden up !!
Or they could just HTFU I guess....earn their money so to speak. Boy we have some overpaid players at Carlton.
I feel that when we are seriously challenged we take a backward step, both mentally and physically. Blokes like Robbo are left to do the hard stuff themselves and are put under more pressure and exposed for their weaknesses when in reality, if our prettier players stood up to the challenge we may be ok.
So we have some 'pretty' players who are soft either physically and/or mentally ?!!
Maybe we could use a sponsor like Boral, who could provide a bit of concrete and help them harden up !!
Or they could just HTFU I guess....earn their money so to speak. Boy we have some overpaid players at Carlton.
Carrots, does any of the above apply to the players who played against Richmond last september?
There have been a grand total of 2 games played between then. The farce of a final up in Sydney, and the game against Port last week.
Sydney were reigning premiers at the time, and Port would be favourite for top 4 on current form.
To make an accurate assessment on where we are at, we need more than 1 data point!
Yep and if we never give up again for the rest of the year I'll be happily proven wrong.
Yep and if we never give up again for the rest of the year I'll be happily proven wrong.
What were your expectations for this season?
If you figured we were going to win the flag, then i feel sorry for you.
If you thought anything else, then surely you knew there would be some hiccups along the way. This is one them.
Yep and if we never give up again for the rest of the year I'll be happily proven wrong.
What were your expectations for this season?
If you figured we were going to win the flag, then i feel sorry for you.
If you thought anything else, then surely you knew there would be some hiccups along the way. This is one them.
I wanted to start the year with a good four quarter performance win or lose.
I agree with Carrots. If we played hard footy for 4 quarters and lost by a goal or two, I would have been happy.
My expectations were genuine improvement.
All we seem to get is eventual groundhog day.
The bonehead ball movement, the selling of teamates into trouble, ordinary execution, the loose opposition players inside our defensive fifty, the much discussed ineffective ruck division, the struggle to score and the almost immediate response.
Its just downright depressing that we seem to be waiting for tge return of Chris Judd (again) and Andrew Carrazzo...
Geez thats depressing. We didnt even get a young debutant to help us feel a little better about where we are going.
My expectations were genuine improvement.
All we seem to get is eventual groundhog day.
The bonehead ball movement, the selling of teamates into trouble, ordinary execution, the loose opposition players inside our defensive fifty, the much discussed ineffective ruck division, the struggle to score and the almost immediate response.
Its just downright depressing that we seem to be waiting for tge return of Chris Judd (again) and Andrew Carrazzo...
Geez thats depressing. We didnt even get a young debutant to help us feel a little better about where we are going.
MM won't play the younguns, they will only have little cameos here and there throughout the season.
Other clubs throw their youngsters in the fire and many come out looking great. Yes I'm all for protecting them and making sure we are not ruining their bodies too quickly or their ego, but gee it would've been great to see Menzel run all game. Isn't it his third year? Then have Cripps come off the bench or similar.
We have plethora of young guys who we just never get to see.
If it wasn't for Jamo's and Hendo's injuries we would never have seen Watson. He wasn't actually carving it up in the twos to warrant his selection.
Some players will and do step it up a notch when they get into the ones. Some of our NB players do rack up 50 posessions but never get a lookin in the major game.
MM just likes player favourites.
Yep and if we never give up again for the rest of the year I'll be happily proven wrong.
What were your expectations for this season?
If you figured we were going to win the flag, then i feel sorry for you.
If you thought anything else, then surely you knew there would be some hiccups along the way. This is one them.
I wanted to start the year with a good four quarter performance win or lose.
Bollocks.
You were banging on last year when we were 0-3, 0-4 about how honourable losses meant nothing. You wanted wins!
NOW you'll settle for honourable losses??
Not buying it.
Yep and if we never give up again for the rest of the year I'll be happily proven wrong.
What were your expectations for this season?
If you figured we were going to win the flag, then i feel sorry for you.
If you thought anything else, then surely you knew there would be some hiccups along the way. This is one them.
I wanted to start the year with a good four quarter performance win or lose.
Bollocks.
You were banging on last year when we were 0-3, 0-4 about how honourable losses meant nothing. You wanted wins!
NOW you'll settle for honourable losses??
Not buying it.
I suspect expectations have been lowered for many of us. ;)
This has turned into a "limbo contest" not a "high jump" :D
Bollocks.
You were banging on last year when we were 0-3, 0-4 about how honourable losses meant nothing. You wanted wins!
NOW you'll settle for honourable losses??
Not buying it.
He's got you there Carrots.
Yep and if we never give up again for the rest of the year I'll be happily proven wrong.
What were your expectations for this season?
If you figured we were going to win the flag, then i feel sorry for you.
If you thought anything else, then surely you knew there would be some hiccups along the way. This is one them.
I wanted to start the year with a good four quarter performance win or lose.
Bollocks.
You were banging on last year when we were 0-3, 0-4 about how honourable losses meant nothing. You wanted wins!
NOW you'll settle for honourable losses??
Not buying it.
Bollocks yourself! In our losses last year we were going to sleep for large periods of the game and conceding many goals on the run. Go back to my posts they CLEARLY point that out. Same issue as against Port. Go back to my post in the pre-game thread where I CLEARLY once again state we need to sustain a four quarter effort at minimum against this lot.
As lods said my expectations have dropped, possibly far more than most as you guys are still in the land of delusion thinking Malthouse can pull us out of this crap. The writing is well and truly on the wall.
@PI2C
Don't think atm that MM or anyone else could pull us out of this crape - not with our present list. Big changes needed unless we get our sh1te together pdq.
We just don't have the focus, concentration or endurance to go 4 quarters with hard working, fit opposition.
Yep and if we never give up again for the rest of the year I'll be happily proven wrong.
What were your expectations for this season?
If you figured we were going to win the flag, then i feel sorry for you.
If you thought anything else, then surely you knew there would be some hiccups along the way. This is one them.
I wanted to start the year with a good four quarter performance win or lose.
Bollocks.
You were banging on last year when we were 0-3, 0-4 about how honourable losses meant nothing. You wanted wins!
NOW you'll settle for honourable losses??
Not buying it.
Bollocks yourself! In our losses last year we were going to sleep for large periods of the game and conceding many goals on the run. Go back to my posts they CLEARLY point that out. Same issue as against Port. Go back to my post in the pre-game thread where I CLEARLY once again state we need to sustain a four quarter effort at minimum against this lot.
As lods said my expectations have dropped, possibly far more than most as you guys are still in the land of delusion thinking Malthouse can pull us out of this crap. The writing is well and truly on the wall.
We had an argument in the 'have we improved' thread prior to the hawthorn game.
You said it was irrelevent how close we got to them, despite them having only 1 game all year, and the only thing that mattered was whether or not we win.
I said, even if we lose, it could show clear improvement
and alternatively, even if we win, doesn't mean we've improved
You said wins were all that mattered. Now, you change your mind....as you're entitled to do, but you are changing it to the exact line of thinking you were arguing against last year.
For the record, Carlton did improve last year. ;)
As for this year...who the hell knows! It is only 1 game FFS. Last years Premiers were 0-1 after 1!
People still fail to acknowledge that.
You know what, if we lose to the tigers, that is still not enough to right off a whole season!
No that was one opponent we hadn't beaten for a long time. We needed to make a statement so that game in particular I said in order to have improved we must win. As it was I'm pretty sure the same thing happened again, we were unable to see out four decent quarters of football.
The point I'm trying to make here is if we DO play four quarters of football it will more than likely result in a win regardless. If they play four quarters and just get knocked off so be it, they gave everything.
We just don't have the focus, concentration or endurance to go 4 quarters with hard working, fit opposition.
We can certainly agree on that!
We were 0-3 last year, Tigers were 3-0. Just saying.
Yep and if we never give up again for the rest of the year I'll be happily proven wrong.
What were your expectations for this season?
If you figured we were going to win the flag, then i feel sorry for you.
If you thought anything else, then surely you knew there would be some hiccups along the way. This is one them.
I wanted to start the year with a good four quarter performance win or lose.
Bollocks.
You were banging on last year when we were 0-3, 0-4 about how honourable losses meant nothing. You wanted wins!
NOW you'll settle for honourable losses??
Not buying it.
Bollocks yourself! In our losses last year we were going to sleep for large periods of the game and conceding many goals on the run. Go back to my posts they CLEARLY point that out. Same issue as against Port. Go back to my post in the pre-game thread where I CLEARLY once again state we need to sustain a four quarter effort at minimum against this lot.
As lods said my expectations have dropped, possibly far more than most as you guys are still in the land of delusion thinking Malthouse can pull us out of this crap. The writing is well and truly on the wall.
We had an argument in the 'have we improved' thread prior to the hawthorn game.
You said it was irrelevent how close we got to them, despite them having only 1 game all year, and the only thing that mattered was whether or not we win.
I said, even if we lose, it could show clear improvement
and alternatively, even if we win, doesn't mean we've improved
You said wins were all that mattered. Now, you change your mind....as you're entitled to do, but you are changing it to the exact line of thinking you were arguing against last year.
For the record, Carlton did improve last year. ;)
As for this year...who the hell knows! It is only 1 game FFS. Last years Premiers were 0-1 after 1!
People still fail to acknowledge that.
You know what, if we lose to the tigers, that is still not enough to right off a whole season!
Yes, positive was we fought back in the 3rd qtr to lead when we had nothing in the tank. Run over by an outstanding, fitter running side in the last qtr as our fitness isn't up to scratch yet. No different to Adelaide Thursday night. Going better than what we think.
The lapses are the ones that still get to me. We were right on top early in the 2nd qtr then we let them kick 4 goal pretty quickly. woke us up and we kicked 4 of our own again but it's something we have to get out of our game. There's still that lazy aspect in out game. I'd like to be 5-6 goals in front feeling comfortable, not nervous.
Just cant believe we get beaten by a team that finished near the bottom 18 months ago and was a laughing stock.
2011 we finished 5th they finished second last
our list wasn't an old one - many said we'd improve.
.......................
Yes, positive was we fought back in the 3rd qtr to lead when we had nothing in the tank. Run over by an outstanding, fitter running side in the last qtr as our fitness isn't up to scratch yet. No different to Adelaide Thursday night. Going better than what we think.
The lapses are the ones that still get to me. We were right on top early in the 2nd qtr then we let them kick 4 goal pretty quickly. woke us up and we kicked 4 of our own again but it's something we have to get out of our game. There's still that lazy aspect in out game. I'd like to be 5-6 goals in front feeling comfortable, not nervous.
Agree
Just cant believe we get beaten by a team that finished near the bottom 18 months ago and was a laughing stock.
2011 we finished 5th they finished second last
our list wasn't an old one - many said we'd improve.
Nothing like having a good coach in Hinkley, one the players will play for, compared to a sh1t one in Primus, who lost the players. Sometimes a bit more to it than looking at the ladder.