Carlton Supporters Club

Quote from: Gozza on January 09, 2014, 09:45:25 pm

After a few pages of discussion, I think the one thing we can all unianimously agree on here: getting pissed is grouse. 

GozzMan... you're sinking back into your old ways. Getting pissed is not grouse... in fact it is grandly dumb; a vehicle to early death; stupid and how to validate every negative opinion of you as seen by others.

GozzMan... your sober contributions here are.... well, 'contributions!'.

But... Mate... your alcohol fueled contributions/promotions only paint you (likely, unfairly) as a bona fide c0ckhead.

Forget commenting on and talking about alcohol and give us more sober footy stuff, please. In fact, impose a ban upon yourself when pissed to post anything.

Quote from: Thryleon on January 09, 2014, 10:53:54 pm

Quote from: Baggers on January 09, 2014, 09:28:36 pm

Quote from: LP on January 09, 2014, 03:13:59 pm

Not all boring sports lead to mindless violence!

The behavior of soccer fans is too easily dismissed by blaming booze, drugs or other influences.

In any case I understand some of the recent behavior allegedly came from events surrounding a specific ethnic group that supposedly fundamentally bans alcohol on religious grounds. Such is the irony that the recent violence flared up at a pub, and so much for the values and effectiveness of that religion!

There is no escaping this is an ethnicity issue and nothing to do with sport at all!

Sports violence is just the disguise that the discrimination and racism wears to allow it to come out in public!

Onto something, Spotted Large Feline.

A volatile mix - passionate ethnicity (fuelled by centuries of conflict, anger and distrust), frustratingly limited scoring, limited intelligence and grog = what we see.

...and another thing. Soccer players are probably amongst the most wimpish of all the ball sport combatants - a slight knock to the knee and you'll see them fall to the ground and cry like a 4 year old with a grazed knee. In fact, this is a sport that would be better played by women as they'd be way less sooky than the boys.

garbage.  Complete utter racist drivel.

The bit about soccer players being soft is likewise drivel.

Would be like us baptising footy players as soft based on Matthew Lloyd's free kicks. 
They only go down to win free kicks.  Hence the miraculous recovery.

3 Leos. Didn't you see the emoticon at the end of my stir? Tongue in cheek!!! Maybe your reaction illustrates my point

Quote from: Baggers on January 09, 2014, 11:03:23 pm

Quote from: Thryleon on January 09, 2014, 10:53:54 pm

Quote from: Baggers on January 09, 2014, 09:28:36 pm

Quote from: LP on January 09, 2014, 03:13:59 pm

Not all boring sports lead to mindless violence!

The behavior of soccer fans is too easily dismissed by blaming booze, drugs or other influences.

In any case I understand some of the recent behavior allegedly came from events surrounding a specific ethnic group that supposedly fundamentally bans alcohol on religious grounds. Such is the irony that the recent violence flared up at a pub, and so much for the values and effectiveness of that religion!

There is no escaping this is an ethnicity issue and nothing to do with sport at all!

Sports violence is just the disguise that the discrimination and racism wears to allow it to come out in public!

Onto something, Spotted Large Feline.

A volatile mix - passionate ethnicity (fuelled by centuries of conflict, anger and distrust), frustratingly limited scoring, limited intelligence and grog = what we see.

...and another thing. Soccer players are probably amongst the most wimpish of all the ball sport combatants - a slight knock to the knee and you'll see them fall to the ground and cry like a 4 year old with a grazed knee. In fact, this is a sport that would be better played by women as they'd be way less sooky than the boys.

garbage.  Complete utter racist drivel.

The bit about soccer players being soft is likewise drivel.

Would be like us baptising footy players as soft based on Matthew Lloyd's free kicks. 
They only go down to win free kicks.  Hence the miraculous recovery.

3 Leos. Didn't you see the emoticon at the end of my stir? Tongue in cheek!!! Maybe your reaction illustrates my point

Baggers, the way it reads, you agree whole heartedly with LP (who likewise spewed more racist/relion descrimination tripe) and your emoticon is for the last paragraph in which you think girls would play the sport harder.

It reads as it reads, what you meant may very well be different to how it reads, but thats precisely how it reads.

1.  Stereotypes are derogotary by definition and therfore racist.  http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/stereotype

2.  You misunderstand, your emoticon doesnt set the tone of your post, its a cheeky emoticon added to the end of a comment UNRELATED to the part where you are discussing said stereotypes and therefore can't see you as being tongue in cheek.  I initially took exception to LP's post and was happy to let it slide given it was largely disregarded for the tripe that it is and no one commented, and then you agree and add a cheeky comment on the end.  Time to cut off that discussion, its not on.

3.  "A volatile mix - passionate ethnicity (fuelled by centuries of conflict, anger and distrust), frustratingly limited scoring, limited intelligence and grog = what we see"

Hell, you dont have to label someone a Gorilla to be racist labelling them all as being passionately ethnic, and having limited intelligence is probably as bad.  As for the grog, most of the older people I grew up with handle their grog better than most people around society today.  They would get drunk and dance, not get drunk and fight.  They were also more ethnic than most of the people guilty of this today given they were migrants, and not a generation or two removed from these migrants.

Violence is linked to immaturity and a sense of following the crowd in this case.  Its not linked to ethnicity, its not linked to the code of sport that they have gone to.  Its people frankly behaving with the thought processes you are displaying as certain elements of ethnicity being subhuman.  Now given we are part of an online community here I know enough about you to know that you are not being deliberately offensive, but I do feel the need to speak up and advise that you are being offensive.  Eddie Mcguire was likely as guilty of being indirectly offensive, (regardless he was being offensive) and it was right of our society to take the stance that it did, as otherwise we would only be allowing comments suited to people of "limited intelligence" to pass as normal and condonable and part of the everyday landscape of things.

My club (South Melbourne FC) was seen to be too Ethnic to be part of this competition, and I resent having been ousted from the premier level of this code, and I will rant scream and rave about the Ethnics being displayed as the problem as they are trying to re-enter the top flight (by way of merging with Melbourne Heart) and I see that this violence only fuels the agenda to exclude South Melbourne and prevent them from taking over that license.  Why should we South Melbourne fans, be tarnished by the brush that these people are?  Especially when its ignorant people making ignorant comments blaming the ethnics.  Its not an ethnic group or religious group.  The fans of Western Sydney are from a demographic of Sydney that probably coincides with lower levels of income, larger families and perhaps even lower social class (given the tradition lower, middle upper classes is what we are talking about here), and you will find that this class of people generally exhibit more violent tendencies and more social problems due to environment more than anything else.  Therefore, its only right that this issue is more of class structure in our society.  Blaming the Ethnics is taking a pot shot at an easy target and poor form, and I feel that so many people have glossed over that fact and simply arrived at the conclusion that migrants tend to form that part of society which is true to an extent, and untrue to another extent.  Just as many migrants are part of middle classes and are not subject to the same social issues.  Its likely to be linked to demographic region of where these supporters have grown up more than anything else.  I digress, you will find these issues exist not because of ethnics, but due to circumstance.  Simply labelling the Ethnics as being at fault is ignorant.

3 Leos. Didn't you see the emoticon at the end of my stir? Tongue in cheek!!! Maybe your reaction illustrates my point

I don't pretend to understand all the reasons
It just seems really strange that a sport with as passionate supporters as Australian Football doesn't seem to have the same violent subculture as Australian "football" ,the soccer variety.
We have clubs with similar working class traditions, we have clubs with strong ethnic affiliations and traditions (look in the mirror ).

It may be as simple as this.
What we have in soccer, I suspect, is a group of folk who've tacked themselves onto the sport for the purpose of engaging in anti social behaviour.

That's the attraction, not the sport, which is secondary.
It was strong with the skinhead groups back in the 70-80s

Whereas for Australian Football folk the attraction is the game.
There's no tradition of causing strife (.......yet!)

I don't pretend to understand all the reasons
It just seems really strange that a sport with as passionate supporters as Australian Football doesn't seem to have the same violent subculture as Australian "football" ,the soccer variety.
We have clubs with similar working class traditions, we have clubs with strong ethnic affiliations and traditions (look in the mirror ).

It may be as simple as this.
What we have in soccer, I suspect, is a group of folk who've tacked themselves onto the sport for the purpose of engaging in anti social behaviour.

That's the attraction, not the sport, which is secondary.
It was strong with the skinhead groups back in the 70-80s

Whereas for Australian Football folk the attraction is the game.
There's no tradition of causing strife (.......yet!)

But it was different in the past. For example I remember back in the late 80s I was at the Western oval for a Footscray game with my old man, siren goes and it's a draw. My dad quickly turns around and tells me to get out pronto and we make a hasty exit. I still remember the loud cracking sounds of fist on face and the sound of blokes hitting the deck as the whole Dougy Hawkins wing turned into a free for all fight. My old man knew there were going to be punch ons because of the draw, he didn't need to wait around and see.

I remember seeing some pi55head Essenscum bloke threaten a young kid (maybe 12-13) who was jumping outside the ground celebrating after our '99 Prelim win. He was going to smash him no doubt.

I remember attending a Melbourne vs North game in the early 90s by myself and being threatened and attacked by a group of kids perhaps a year or so younger than me. they kicked me as I walked past and threw a few punches for absolutely no reason at all other than the fact that I was an easy target.

These are just a few of MY experiences only but it goes to show it does happen, the media just aren't as keen to jump all over it as they are with soccer.

Was there not a Melbourne fan who was beaten senseless by a couple of Pies fans a few seasons back? Pretty sure no one was beaten senseless in the most recent bout of soccer hooliganism.

Then of course there's the constant racist remarks we're forced to endure week in week out.

Just saying.....