Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on May 01, 2021, 01:23:57 pm

Title: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: crashlander on May 01, 2021, 01:23:57 pm
Well, Richmond showed how it should be done. Can we do the same as they did? Somehow I doubt it.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 01, 2021, 01:39:29 pm
No chance.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 01, 2021, 02:22:30 pm
No chance.
Tend to agree, they will be dirty on losing to the Tigers and will hit back hard, we might also cop the wonder child in his first game too. As Jim says we often perform ok vs the Dogs but this time I'm finding it hard to be positive.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: DJC on May 01, 2021, 02:45:52 pm
Tend to agree, they will be dirty on losing to the Tigers and will hit back hard, we might also cop the wonder child in his first game too. As Jim says we often perform ok vs the Dogs but this time I'm finding it hard to be positive.

Having English back will cause us headaches.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 01, 2021, 02:55:58 pm
Having English back will cause us headaches.
Agree...three big marking targets with English back in plus the double team ruck vs Pittonet doesnt read well. Thought Martin struggled vs the robust Nankervis last night but with his younger under study back will be better this week.
Maybe the physical nature of the game last night might have wounded a few more Doggie soldiers which might help us....
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: laj on May 01, 2021, 04:07:57 pm
Our bunnies...lol. Some sides just do well against others.

Normally I'd say I'd tell you after tomorrow but that doesn't mean alot at Carlton.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: DJC on May 01, 2021, 04:37:33 pm
Agree...three big marking targets with English back in plus the double team ruck vs Pittonet doesnt read well. Thought Martin struggled vs the robust Nankervis last night but with his younger under study back will be better this week.
Maybe the physical nature of the game last night might have wounded a few more Doggie soldiers which might help us....

Ugle-Hagan won’t be making his debut if his form against the Bullants is any guide.

I know you’ve said it before but getting Stef Martin to the Bulldogs was masterful list management that should really help English develop.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on May 01, 2021, 08:04:15 pm
Ugle-Hagan won’t be making his debut if his form against the Bullants is any guide.

I know you’ve said it before but getting Stef Martin to the Bulldogs was masterful list management that should really help English develop.
 Ugle-Hagan getting a game would be like signing BigH on a $1M contract, a tad premature! ;)
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 03, 2021, 08:07:30 am
Tend to agree, they will be dirty on losing to the Tigers and will hit back hard, we might also cop the wonder child in his first game too. As Jim says we often perform ok vs the Dogs but this time I'm finding it hard to be positive.

Yes, the last three games in reverse chronological order -

R6 2020 : won by 52 points
R13 2019 : lost by 3 points
R5 2019 : won by 44 points

It looks good on paper, but it feels very different this year. Bulldogs have definitely gone up a level or two.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: JonDorotich on May 04, 2021, 07:20:38 pm
Would love to see Williams, SPS, Dekoning and Silvagni in for Newnes, McGovern, Casboult and Gibbo.

Won’t happen but would like to see it - make Murphy earn  recall and retain Dow.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 04, 2021, 08:03:47 pm
In a tiny spot at the back of the WBs minds, there is LWL. Whilst we are inconsistent, our best can challenge anyone. Four qtrs of hard honest football and we are definitely a chance. Anything less and they will wipe the grass with us.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on May 06, 2021, 11:35:11 am
Rumours circulating Levi is an out.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Wet Willie on May 06, 2021, 12:24:06 pm
Would love to see Williams, SPS, Dekoning and Silvagni in for Newnes, McGovern, Casboult and Gibbo.

Won’t happen but would like to see it - make Murphy earn  recall and retain Dow.
Surely they won't bring Murphy back immediately...
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 06, 2021, 02:23:05 pm
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/tueague-predicts-a-shootout-when-blues-face-bulldogs-20210506-p57pbh.html

Apart from discussing the game itself, the article also touches a little on Cripps, LOB, ins and outs, and a chart from Champion Data.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 06, 2021, 02:24:39 pm
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/a-big-test-fogarty-knows-what-blues-must-do-to-upset-bulldogs-20210504-p57orq.html
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: laj on May 06, 2021, 02:39:08 pm
Surely they won't bring Murphy back immediately...

You can bet they will.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 06, 2021, 04:24:00 pm
You can bet they will.
Only surer bet would be having a punt on" Winx"....
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on May 06, 2021, 06:25:41 pm
I think we play both Pittonet and De Koning, if English plays.  Pittonet against Martín and De Koning to play the same roll as English and go on the ball when he does. Drop Casboult. No matter what we can’t have De  Koning as the one and only based on only 1 return game. We need to ease him into it even at AFL level. 

SOS for Gov (they are both 191 cm), Murphy for Gibbons (Murphy better disposal and hits the scoreboard)  Williams in for Newnes (medical sub)  SPS in for Cottrell.

Gee 5 changes!!! But I think we are better.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 06, 2021, 06:49:12 pm
I think we play both Pittonet and De Koning, if English plays.  Pittonet against Martín and De Koning to play the same roll as English and go on the ball when he does. Drop Casboult. No matter what we can’t have De  Koning as the one and only based on only 1 return game. We need to ease him into it even at AFL level. 

SOS for Gov (they are both 191 cm), Murphy for Gibbons (Murphy better disposal and hits the scoreboard)  Williams in for Newnes (medical sub)  SPS in for Cottrell.

Gee 5 changes!!! But I think we are better.
I'm tempted to keep Casboult in if fit to play down  back if required...Dogs often rest English forward and along with Naughton and Bruce thats one too many talls for us to handle. Parks couldnt handle the Ess kid Jones who was just too tall and I'd like the option of using Casboult at both ends and having him on the bench.
Happy to play TDK and Jack, have to remember the Dogs bat deep in the midfield and you cant have players who wont man up and chase vs this mob. Murphy and SPS both worry me in that regard, Williams in for sure but I'd be inclined to keep SPS as the medical sub. This is one game where defensively everyone has to play their part....cant have Cripps man running wild if its going to be the Bont, McCrae, Smith etc and Curnow cant cover every quality they have mid .I think Cottrell plays this week and I'd stick him on Hunter who has been burning it up. Fogarty to play a negative role on Daniel and stop his rebound..
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: laj on May 06, 2021, 07:07:46 pm
I'm tempted to keep Casboult in if fit to play down down back if required...Dogs often rest English forward and along with Naughton and Bruce thats one too many talls for us to handle. Parks couldnt handle the Ess kid Jones who was just too tall and I'd like the option of using Casboult at both ends and having him on the bench.
Happy to play TDK and Jack, have to remember the Dogs bat deep in the midfield and you cant have players who wont man up and chase vs this mob. Murphy and SPS both worry me in that regard, Williams in for sure but I'd be inclined to keep SPS as the medical sub. This is one game where defensively everyone has to play their part....cant have Cripps man running wild if its going to be the Bont, McCrae, Smith etc and Curnow cant cover every quality they have mid .I think Cottrell plays this week and I'd stick him on Hunter who has been burning it up. Fogarty to play a negative role on Daniel and stop his rebound..

English still doesn't look like playing.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 06, 2021, 07:49:12 pm
I wish this was at the MCG.
Something tells me they wont bring TDK in this week.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on May 06, 2021, 07:59:45 pm
I wish this was at the MCG.
Something tells me they wont bring TDK in this week.
If they don't Casboult gets yet another life line which he doesn't deserve.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: flyboy77 on May 06, 2021, 08:18:55 pm
I think we play both Pittonet and De Koning, if English plays.  Pittonet against Martín and De Koning to play the same roll as English and go on the ball when he does. Drop Casboult. No matter what we can’t have De  Koning as the one and only based on only 1 return game. We need to ease him into it even at AFL level. 

SOS for Gov (they are both 191 cm), Murphy for Gibbons (Murphy better disposal and hits the scoreboard)  Williams in for Newnes (medical sub)  SPS in for Cottrell.

Gee 5 changes!!! But I think we are better.

JSOS a lazy 194cm these days.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/players/766/jack-silvagni
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: flyboy77 on May 06, 2021, 08:19:33 pm
Only surer bet would be having a punt on" Winx"....

Reportedly only jogging laps today.

Won't play.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 06, 2021, 08:55:55 pm
JSOS a lazy 194cm these days.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/players/766/jack-silvagni
Ill give Gov this though, he probably has a better leap than Jack.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: flyboy77 on May 06, 2021, 09:41:18 pm
Ill give Gov this though, he probably has a better leap than Jack.

No question.

I  was being literal.

May both thrive and have great careers in the Navy Blue.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: northernblue on May 06, 2021, 09:52:29 pm
JSOS a lazy 194cm these days.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/players/766/jack-silvagni

The Richmond Bloke has been in and hacked Sos stats, nil height and weight… 😳
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: dodge on May 06, 2021, 10:23:34 pm
Think Ferris Bueller...
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2021, 09:07:04 am
I think it's Liam Jones 150th ? If so, what a great journey.

Best of luck Liam.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2021, 09:10:05 am
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/929160/-it-was-pretty-much-done-jones-opens-up-on-renaissance

Straight from the horse's mouth - Jones doesn't know who exactly made the decision to move him back, but he gives credit to Josh Fraser for making it work, and Dale Amos to a lesser extent.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 08, 2021, 09:19:08 am
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/929160/-it-was-pretty-much-done-jones-opens-up-on-renaissance

Straight from the horse's mouth - Jones doesn't know who exactly made the decision to move him back, but he gives credit to Josh Fraser for making it work, and Dale Amos to a lesser extent.
Teague also praised Fraser in his presser the other day for Jonesy's move down back.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on May 08, 2021, 10:42:09 am
I'm sure a few years back it came out that it was Paul Brodie who made the suggestion, of course he didn't make it happen, that was Fraser and I'm very sad Fraser is no longer associated with Carlton because anyone who been to a VFL game will tell you he's a A-Grade coach.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on May 08, 2021, 12:54:56 pm
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/929160/-it-was-pretty-much-done-jones-opens-up-on-renaissance

Straight from the horse's mouth - Jones doesn't know who exactly made the decision to move him back, but he gives credit to Josh Fraser for making it work, and Dale Amos to a lesser extent.

He is always extremely articulate and personable when interviewed.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on May 08, 2021, 02:43:17 pm
I'm sure a few years back it came out that it was Paul Brodie who made the suggestion, of course he didn't make it happen, that was Fraser and I'm very sad Fraser is no longer associated with Carlton because anyone who been to a VFL game will tell you he's a A-Grade coach.

it was Brodie

https://www.examiner.com.au/story/5274016/liam-jones-unlikely-comeback-comes-full-circle/

Quote
Early in the 2017 VFL season Jones, out of desperation, was thrown into the backline for the Northern Blues at the suggestion of Carlton recruiter Paul Brodie.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on May 08, 2021, 05:12:54 pm
When are they going to post the bloody sides,  it's getting beyond joke
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2021, 05:20:38 pm
it was Brodie

https://www.examiner.com.au/story/5274016/liam-jones-unlikely-comeback-comes-full-circle/


I listened to the whole podcast, and Jones didn't mention Brodie's name once. It's not a major issue, but I do prefer having the right information.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: capcom on May 08, 2021, 05:50:52 pm
When are they going to post the bloody sides,  it's getting beyond joke

Around 6:30 I believe
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on May 08, 2021, 05:51:41 pm
I listened to the whole podcast, and Jones didn't mention Brodie's name once. It's not a major issue, but I do prefer having the right information.

I thought you said  Jones didn't know exactly who was responsible...
Tell him it was Brodie ;)
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2021, 06:02:16 pm
I thought you said  Jones didn't know exactly who was responsible...
Tell him it was Brodie ;)

I did say that, because that's exactly what Jones said.

I'll pass on the message.  ;D
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on May 08, 2021, 06:05:08 pm
I did say that, because that's exactly what Jones said.

I'll pass on the message.  ;D

Lots of the articles are behind a paywall Paul.... but Google "Liam Jones and Paul Brodie" and the summaries indicate it was Brodie who first suggested  the idea, and the coaches gave it a try.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on May 08, 2021, 06:18:43 pm
In fairness to Brodie, Fraser and Jones, there is a hell of a difference between the suggestion and the implementation.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2021, 06:19:50 pm
Lots of the articles are behind a paywall Paul.... but Google "Liam Jones and Paul Brodie" and the summaries indicate it was Brodie who first suggested  the idea, and the coaches gave it a try.

I don't know what to tell you Lods. Jones mentions plenty of people in that interview : Matthew Scarlett, Rodney Eade, Josh Bruce, Josh Fraser, Kade Simpson, Bolts, his parents, siblings, former team mates............I can't remember them all. Given that the interview was ostensibly a casual chat about his journey to 150 games, it would, IMO, be a significant oversight and / or slap in the face if he left out the one person who came up with the idea. He says he was stuck on 80 odd games and well on track to being delisted, before being moved back.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2021, 06:32:37 pm
In fairness to Brodie, Fraser and Jones, there is a hell of a difference between the suggestion and the implementation.

Yes, notwithstanding all of the above, moving a failed forward to the backline is not exactly an earth shatteringly original idea - it seems to happen every season. Making the move a successful one is another matter entirely.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on May 08, 2021, 06:33:22 pm
I find the the omission of SPS hard to believe!
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on May 08, 2021, 06:34:39 pm
Doggies  No Martín or English, that hurts their structure big time!!  Silvagni, Williams IN  SPS, Dow, McGovern out

Medical sub from DeKoning, SPS, Dow, Setterfield
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: DJC on May 08, 2021, 06:36:42 pm
I find the the omission of SPS hard to believe!

Inexplicable LP!  He made a huge difference when he came on.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Sexybronco on May 08, 2021, 06:38:10 pm
I find the the omission of SPS hard to believe!
Agree, I thought he showed a lot when he came into the midfield last week. We still need to name a medical sub so he’s the most likely if the emergencies listed.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on May 08, 2021, 06:41:49 pm
I would guess the medical sub will be Setterfield. I wouldn’t waste DeKoning on the pine when we can get another game into him, SPS needs a full game somewhere and Dow still needs to find some form.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on May 08, 2021, 06:44:38 pm
I think SPS ...and Dow are both unlucky.
SPS had an impact when he came on and Dow started really well last week.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2021, 06:45:00 pm
FB
[20] Lachie Plowman,
[14] Liam Jones,
[15] Sam Docherty

HB
[42] Adam Saad,
[23] Jacob Weitering,
[6] Zac Williams

CC
[32] Jack Newnes,
[9] Patrick Cripps,
[46] Matthew Cottrell

HF
[28] David Cuningham,
[41] Levi Casboult,
[1] Jack Silvagni

FF
[44] Matthew Owies,
[10] Harry McKay,
[8] Lachie Fogarty

FOL
[27] Marc Pittonet,
[18] Sam Walsh,
[35] Ed Curnow

IC
[26] Luke Parks,
[13] Liam Stocker,
[40] Michael Gibbons,
[19] Eddie Betts

EMG
[5] Sam Petrevski-Seton,
[12] Tom De Koning,
[43] Will Setterfield,
[2] Paddy Dow
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2021, 06:45:54 pm
Jones' and Johannisen's 150th.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on May 08, 2021, 06:52:15 pm
I hope our ruck lads watched how The Handbaggers dealt with Nthmond's joke ruck option!
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 08, 2021, 06:56:13 pm
I hope our ruck lads watched how The Handbaggers dealt with Nthmond's joke ruck option!
Dads Army didnt win the game in the ruck
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: capcom on May 08, 2021, 06:59:21 pm
Reckon it's a dead certainty it will be SPS as sub again.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on May 08, 2021, 07:01:00 pm
Round 8 and the Williams "I'm a mid" experiment - on paper - appears to be on the skids.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: laj on May 08, 2021, 07:09:34 pm
Reckon it's a dead certainty it will be SPS as sub again.

I'd say so. Hopefully it's not TDK as he needs the work.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: laj on May 08, 2021, 07:12:14 pm
Round 8 and the Williams "I'm a mid" experiment - on paper - appears to be on the skids.

Which, in turn, means Stocker hopefully goes into the midfield.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on May 08, 2021, 07:12:57 pm
There are 4 on notice tomorrow….Gibbons, Newnes, Casboult and Cottrell.  I hope it brings out the best in them.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 08, 2021, 07:18:53 pm
Reckon it's a dead certainty it will be SPS as sub again.
agree
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 08, 2021, 07:20:55 pm
There are 4 on notice tomorrow….Gibbons, Newnes, Casboult and Cottrell.  I hope it brings out the best in them.
Cottell Id persist persist with, Newnes and Casboult I would have dumped. Gibbo definitely on notice.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: DJC on May 08, 2021, 07:28:54 pm
Dads Army didnt win the game in the ruck

Nankervis won the ruck but Blicavs and Ratugolea exploited Pickett, particularly when he had to take centre bounces. 

Sweet, for all his inexperience, is pretty good at getting his hand to the ball and he may trouble Pittonet.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: DJC on May 08, 2021, 07:31:30 pm
Round 8 and the Williams "I'm a mid" experiment - on paper - appears to be on the skids.

Don't fall for the "players lining up where they're named" ruse Prof  :)

Williams must be in the midfield mix.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: rocky on May 08, 2021, 08:02:29 pm
Bloody hell, Gibbons and Levi live to fight another day. Just can't work it out. TDK the emergency. WTF?? Plays one game and then sit him on the pine. Dow starts off pretty well before getting injured, but we'll drop him anyway. SPS actually shows something for a change, but we'll drop him too. Stupid, stupid, stupid. This is the reason why we have no confidence in the club.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: crashlander on May 08, 2021, 08:47:27 pm
FB
[20] Lachie Plowman,
[14] Liam Jones,
[15] Sam Docherty

HB
[42] Adam Saad,
[23] Jacob Weitering,
[6] Zac Williams

CC
[32] Jack Newnes,
[9] Patrick Cripps,
[46] Matthew Cottrell

HF
[28] David Cuningham,
[41] Levi Casboult,
[1] Jack Silvagni

FF
[44] Matthew Owies,
[10] Harry McKay,
[8] Lachie Fogarty

FOL
[27] Marc Pittonet,
[18] Sam Walsh,
[35] Ed Curnow

IC
[26] Luke Parks,
[13] Liam Stocker,
[40] Michael Gibbons,
[19] Eddie Betts

EMG
[5] Sam Petrevski-Seton,
[12] Tom De Koning,
[43] Will Setterfield,
[2] Paddy Dow
I probably would have brought de Koning in. He is the future of our ruck and he is athletic. Another week? Maybe.
I am a bit surprised that Dow and SPS are out, Both were better last week.
Silvagni had to come in, with McGovern injured.
We do have a couple of guys who need to perform better to remain, but with Tom de Koning not coming in, Casboult is a certainty.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on May 08, 2021, 08:51:23 pm
TDK the emergency. WTF?? Plays one game and then sit him on the pine.

He won’t be on any pine, he’ll get another game under his belt in the twos which is the right decision. Get him fully match hardened.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 08, 2021, 09:26:46 pm
Nankervis won the ruck but Blicavs and Ratugolea exploited Pickett, particularly when he had to take centre bounces. 

Sweet, for all his inexperience, is pretty good at getting his hand to the ball and he may trouble Pittonet.
Sweet is a big lump of a kid at 202cm and 107kg, Bruce will be their second ruckman, they usually rest Bontempelli at FF when Bruce rucks. Seen a couple of teams late making the change on the Bont and getting caught with the regular FB picking him up and finding he has slipped them on the lead so I hope our brains trust dont end up with the slow moving Weitering picking him up for example..
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 08, 2021, 10:28:49 pm
Would be some kind of win given the team selection this week.
P.S.
Dear Zac
Please extract the digit and show us why you were recruited.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 08, 2021, 11:02:59 pm
Would be some kind of win given the team selection this week.
P.S.
Dear Zac
Please extract the digit and show us why you were recruited.
Thanks.
Bit of a chance with the Dogs ruck duo out and a newbie kid in, this is probably their weakest team of the season on paper IMO.
Keath and Cordy will be giving away inches down back too, obviously they bat way deeper than us in the midfield but if we can turn the game into a scrimmage and make it very contested we are a better chance than I initially thought.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: DJC on May 08, 2021, 11:08:02 pm
Sweet is a big lump of a kid at 202cm and 107kg, Bruce will be their second ruckman, they usually rest Bontempelli at FF when Bruce rucks. Seen a couple of teams late making the change on the Bont and getting caught with the regular FB picking him up and finding he has slipped them on the lead so I hope our brains trust dont end up with the slow moving Weitering picking him up for example..

Bruce has managed one hitout in seven games this season but I guess the Bulldogs had English and Martin rucking in most games.  Pittonet and Casboult should really take advantage when Bruce is relieving Sweet.

Jones should take Bruce and he is fast enough to stick with the Bont - providing he's on his game and we apply some defensive pressure up the ground.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 08, 2021, 11:17:50 pm
Bruce has managed one hitout in seven games this season but I guess the Bulldogs had English and Martin rucking in most games.  Pittonet and Casboult should really take advantage when Bruce is relieving Sweet.

Jones should take Bruce and he is fast enough to stick with the Bont - providing he's on his game and we apply some defensive pressure up the ground.
Bruce is only there to do a Pickett and make a token contest while the main ruck has a spell, I think the Bonts smarts are what would worry me about Jones as much as anything. Hooker isnt half the player the Bont is but he seemed to find space to kick his 5 goals and I hope Jones is a bit more switched on than he was last week.
Hipwood kicked three on him the week before and while he has fair share of intercepts and helps other players he needs to stop leaking goals.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: DJC on May 09, 2021, 12:24:56 am
I'm not sure that there was much Jones could do ... although his judgement and positioning was a bit off.  The ball was simply coming in too quickly and too accurately for most defenders to do much about.  It's the turnovers and lack of defensive pressure up the ground that is the problem ... and dumb kicks inside 50  :(
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 09, 2021, 07:21:53 am
Bit of a chance with the Dogs ruck duo out and a newbie kid in, this is probably their weakest team of the season on paper IMO.
Keath and Cordy will be giving away inches down back too, obviously they bat way deeper than us in the midfield but if we can turn the game into a scrimmage and make it very contested we are a better chance than I initially thought.
The main problem for us is Marvel Stadium, 34.7% win ratio which isn't good, we seem to save our worst for that ground.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: JonDorotich on May 09, 2021, 08:07:36 am
I can start to understand the lack of a call up for TDK given he’s only been back for one week, giving Levi another reprieve

But Dow and SPS out whilst Newnes plays is nothing short of incredible.

Lots of talent in the VFL
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on May 09, 2021, 08:27:07 am
Round 8 and the Williams "I'm a mid" experiment - on paper - appears to be on the skids.

Ive been to a few matches and zac has been hiding in pockets for most of the year.  We are carrying him IMHO as he's not 100%
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: JonDorotich on May 09, 2021, 08:46:48 am
Ive been to a few matches and zac has been hiding in pockets for most of the year.  We are carrying him IMHO as he's not 100%

Think that’s right
Surely we completed a thorough medical on his Achilles tendons?
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 09, 2021, 08:51:03 am
Ive been to a few matches and zac has been hiding in pockets for most of the year.  We are carrying him IMHO as he's not 100%
I dont subscribe to the theory we are carrying him injured. Not even Carlton would risk the investment. I reckon he is a little on the lazy side and thinks the game will come to him. Needs a rocket of the highest order instead of having his ego stroked.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: flyboy77 on May 09, 2021, 09:14:22 am
We don't fear these guys - and match up well.

Need a few more to step up through - MG, ZW, JN - to name three who should be giving more....

Rd 6, 2020 (Metricon)

Blues 16.7   103
Dogs 7.9       51


Rd 5, 2019 (Marvel)

Blues 15.11   101
Dogs 7.15       57


They pipped us by 3 points later in the season at Marvel.


Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: cookie2 on May 09, 2021, 09:25:12 am
This would be a morale boosting win for us without doubt and all I can hope is that we want it badly enough. The return of Jack S is great afaic as he will no doubt bring some determination and mongrel - should more than compensate for the loss of McG.

The other in, ZW, is an upgrade also.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on May 09, 2021, 10:06:09 am
I can start to understand the lack of a call up for TDK given he’s only been back for one week, giving Levi another reprieve

But Dow and SPS out whilst Newnes plays is nothing short of incredible.

Lots of talent in the VFL
Just on this, i feel like i'm the president of the Jack Newnes fan club and required to defend him, but why do you make this statement? What is it that Newnes has been so bad at, that either of those 2 have been so good at.

At best, they have performed equally over the journey. Newnes at least offers consistency week to week. SPS everyone was calling for his head....we finally got it.....then he plays half a game, takes 1 good mark and he is flavour of the month again. What if he gives us SFA for the next 5 weeks? Back to Newnes??

Newnes vs Dow/SPS....
Newnes hits the scoreboard more.
Tackles as much as them
Gets more of the ball more than them.
Puts his body on the line more
Stands up for his teammates more.
Can handle the pressure better
Has more I50's
More 1%ers

Why the hate on him? Because he is a few years older and because he came from a different club?
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on May 09, 2021, 10:13:13 am
I don't understand the hate for Newnes - rarely among our worst players, rarely gets dropped, can play different positions. The hate seems unjustified IMO.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ianh on May 09, 2021, 10:53:34 am
Newnes is a good mature body who has his limitations like every player does, the others offer more upside hence the tendency to prefer them but I agree JN is matching them at least on output.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: JonDorotich on May 09, 2021, 11:57:27 am
Just on this, i feel like i'm the president of the Jack Newnes fan club and required to defend him, but why do you make this statement? What is it that Newnes has been so bad at, that either of those 2 have been so good at.

At best, they have performed equally over the journey. Newnes at least offers consistency week to week. SPS everyone was calling for his head....we finally got it.....then he plays half a game, takes 1 good mark and he is flavour of the month again. What if he gives us SFA for the next 5 weeks? Back to Newnes??

Newnes vs Dow/SPS....
Newnes hits the scoreboard more.
Tackles as much as them
Gets more of the ball more than them.
Puts his body on the line more
Stands up for his teammates more.
Can handle the pressure better
Has more I50's
More 1%ers

Why the hate on him? Because he is a few years older and because he came from a different club?

I don’t “hate” Jack Newnes, in fact I’m a fan, but not at the expense of developing Dow or SPS, both of whom have tremendous upside

Most have been calling for SPS to play in the midfield and he finally got his opportunity last week and did well - his vision, creativity and excellent disposal is something the side is crying out for, although he does need to work on kicking longer.

Dow offers an opportunity to develop another high quality inside mid with the ability to break lines, a quality that’s clearly in short supply at the club. His first quarter before getting injured was very good and he is not afraid of the contest.

By contrast, Newnes will give you an honest contest, 15-20 disposals a week and kicks relatively well for goal however against high quality opposition he is prone to poor decision making - you could argue that he offers similar output to Dow and SPS played in the midfield today, but he has  nowhere near the upside of Dow and SPS

It’s a no brainer Kruddler and you can bet that the dogs would be relieved to see both out of the side in favour of Newnes
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 09, 2021, 01:14:14 pm
Med sub wont be Setters, TDK both playing ressies. Newman hyper extended the elbow
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on May 09, 2021, 01:29:50 pm
Med sub wont be Setters, TDK both playing ressies. Newman hyper extended the elbow

Dow has played at least part of the game. SPS will be sub again.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: DJC on May 09, 2021, 01:57:21 pm
 
Dow has played at least part of the game. SPS will be sub again.

I guess that’s better than nothing  ::)
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on May 09, 2021, 02:19:25 pm
I don’t “hate” Jack Newnes, in fact I’m a fan, but not at the expense of developing Dow or SPS, both of whom have tremendous upside

....

By contrast, Newnes will give you an honest contest, 15-20 disposals a week and kicks relatively well for goal however against high quality opposition he is prone to poor decision making - you could argue that he offers similar output to Dow and SPS played in the midfield today, but he has nowhere near the upside of Dow and SPS

It’s a no brainer Kruddler and you can bet that the dogs would be relieved to see both out of the side in favour of Newnes


Upside, sure.
Ramsay, Philp, Kemp have upside too.

However, they are below par in terms of output (some of which being non-existant) so 'upside' is not enough.

Output is where its at, and currently SPS and Dow are not giving us enough output. Now i understand giving them more time to get to that development, and i'm in favour of doing that too. But i'm not sure Newnes is the one that should be getting the flick. He doesn't really deserve it. Gibbons has been more of an issue of late.

...and just on that last line from you....Bulldogs would prefer someone like Dow, SPS, who fold under pressure, rather than someone like Newnes who is battle hardened and not going to be pushed around.

Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on May 09, 2021, 08:47:45 pm
I dont subscribe to the theory we are carrying him injured. Not even Carlton would risk the investment. I reckon he is a little on the lazy side and thinks the game will come to him. Needs a rocket of the highest order instead of having his ego stroked.

What do you reckon after today? 

Time On Ground 79%

Saad another one who isn't 100% (at least he has ramadan as an excuse for his rush of blood to the head) 74%.

Only players with less time on ground:

Fogarty 78%
Ed Curnow 78%
Owies, 73%,
Gibbons, 69%,
JSOS, 55% (went off injured). 
SPS a modest 15% time on ground (which means he played a whole of 10 to 15 minutes, which is pathetic from a bloke who came on halfway through the third quarter.  Shouldn't he have played at least 25% of the game?


Anyway, its irrelevant really.  If you ignore every other stat, and look at metres gained, you see that the Bulldogs midfield dominated the game in terms of being damaging, and we relied heavily on our metres gained coming out of defense.

The bulldogs mids moved it further more frequently which tells the story well enough.





Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 09, 2021, 09:29:22 pm
What do you reckon after today? 

What do I reckon after today? I can't see why we spent a mozza on this goat.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on May 10, 2021, 05:47:28 pm
SPS a modest 15% time on ground (which means he played a whole of 10 to 15 minutes, which is pathetic from a bloke who came on halfway through the third quarter.  Shouldn't he have played at least 25% of the game?

Game time was 128minutes
15% = 19 minutes.

Last quarter went 30min, 3rd quarter went 32. (1st half was 65min).

Not sure why he played so little, but he did SFA in his limited TOG. Lightning couldn't strike twice.....and i'm not suprised.
Need to send him back to the 2's and get him a full game in the middle.
Title: Re: Pre game prosecution: AFL 2021 Rd 8: Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: cookie2 on May 10, 2021, 10:18:48 pm
Would not be at all surprised to see SPS traded out this year. He does not look happy or motivated imo.