Skip to main content
Topic: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney (Read 7597 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #45
Interesting one. Ordinarily, the issue of choosing to bump arises when a player hits an opponent who has the ball rather than tackling, or hits a player trying to gather a ground ball. This was a marking contest. Mitchell had kicked long and it was heading straight towards Plowman who was running towards the ball drop. JOM was running laterally and their paths were destined to intersect at right-angles. Plowman was entitled to sprint towards the ball: JOM had no right of way even though he was presumably Mitchell’s target. It was only in the last 1-2 strides (I.e. in the last split-second) that Plowman’s left arm drops down and he turns his shoulder to brace for impact. He didn’t “choose to bump”. The question really is whether he should or could have put on the brakes to minimise the impact or deviated. And in a football sense, could he really have deviated and allowed JOM to mark on the run and run unchecked into our D50?

Should Plowman be punished for bracing for impact? The main benefit of that choice was enjoyed by Plowman. But he minimised or eliminated the risk of a big head clash by keeping a half-shoulder distance between their heads. We saw with Dangerfield that 2 players crashing into each other at an angle can lead to severe concussion for one or both. And if Plowman had instead put his elbows up in preparation for a chest mark, the impact may have been much worse.

The umpires on field adjudged it a footy collision and no free was paid.

When we rebounded the ball and kicked long inside 50, Betts and Frost were sprinting laterally across the ground but directly towards each other. It could have been a massive collision, but Eddie ran slightly to the right of the incoming Frost and the impact was minimal. If they’d collided, would Frost have been in trouble if Eddie had been concussed?

Unfortunately, marking contests are inherently dangerous when players approach at pace. The guts needed draws admiration but shouldn’t always draw a free kick or a report. I remember a game in which Fev flew into a pack with the knee up (and the stops down) in a classic power forward move. He launched upwards and took the mark. Unfortunately, a Tigers player ran into the pack with the flight of the ball and Fev’s knee went smack into his face. And the umpire paid a free kick against Fev. You shouldn’t get a free kick simply because you show reckless disregard for your own safety and get yourself hurt.

JOM should be lauded for his guts in keeping his eyes on the ball and running in from the side when it was fair to assume there’d be contact. But at best he should have drawn a free.

Excellent summation

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #46
Back in the old days you had to go when the situation demanded and you could get hit, taken out of the game and it was the norm. Now players can pick and choose when to go and it will be highlighted either way, I dont expect every player to be like Robbo and go 110% of the time in a crazy mad dog fashion but there are important times in games when you have to choose to go and put your body on the line. IMHO Plowman and OMeara both decided to go hard and both players had the ball in mind and at no time did either player look to clean the other bloke up like what would have happened in the old days with some contests.
A players good record was always taken into consideration, of course there is a first time for everything but when there was doubt a player with a clean record and good reputation would beat that charge.
Now the player is assumed guilty as soon as the other bloke leaves the ground and is doubtful for the next game, if you want to appeal you are threatened with more games or a 10k bonus penalty if you are not successful.
Players like Robbo will become dinasours as the contact allowed is reduced.....non malicious players are being grouped with thugs like Steven May, Hartigan because its easier to rule on.

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #47
Matthew Lloyd on Access All Areas says both Plowman and Holman should be playing next week, 100%.

Sellars work here is done then isn’t it ?
Let’s go BIG !

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #48
Kemp could come in for his AFL debut as he is a bigger size, but he didnt seem ready either.

Why??  We play the long game with this kid. Let him find his feet (and strength) in the twos for the bulk of the year and give him a taste towards the end and get him cherry ripe for 2022. No hurry!!

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #49
Why??  We play the long game with this kid. Let him find his feet (and strength) in the twos for the bulk of the year and give him a taste towards the end and get him cherry ripe for 2022. No hurry!!

I agree.  Kemp impressed first up but he was playing limited minutes.  He had almost no pre-season and I reckon it will take him another couple of games to get anywhere near match fitness.

I'd like to see him given opportunities to play different roles in the VFL and, if his form demands it, several AFL games in the back half of the season.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #50
Kemp impressed because it was his first game.
Kemp did not impress enough to make his afl debut after 1 game regardless of his (lack of)  fitness.

Check your expectations.

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #51
Kemp impressed because his teamates were awful.

In a situation where you must make a change next week, he would be the first picked based on the 4 quarters I saw and you could play him as a sub.


"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #52
To me given his size Kemp looked light and lacked power needed to go head to head with bodies of equivalent size in AFL.

Was inconsistent but kicked the ball reasonably well though quite a few times, looks to be a nice ball user but VFL offers a lot more time and space than AFL.

Needs quite a few more VFL games before we make a call.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging him, he looks a very likely type that we should not rush. I'd love to see him build a few VFL games then get a VFL midfield rotation, to me this is his long term role.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #53
To me given his size Kemp looked light and lacked power needed to go head to head with bodies of equivalent size in AFL.

Was inconsistent but kicked the ball reasonably well though quite a few times, looks to be a nice ball user but VFL offers a lot more time and space than AFL.

Needs quite a few more VFL games before we make a call.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bagging him, he looks a very likely type that we should not rush. I'd love to see him build a few VFL games then get a VFL midfield rotation, to me this is his long term role.
Agree, I thought he was a very good player the times I saw him at U18 level and the ideal swingman type that every club needs.
Against the Box Hill Hawks he looked thin, lacking in power to break tackles and was attempting to crash through packs like he could at u18 level where he often had a size advantage but was often getting caught in the game on the weekend.
I thought he did as well as could be expected but he isnt ready for senior footy and we have to be careful how he is managed.
Got no doubt he will make a very fine senior player but this season is about building his body and adjusting from the U18 comp to playing vs men and thats going to take time.
We saw Parks do ok early but when we ran into the heavyweight teams he looked like a SANFL player with only 15 games to his name and was badly exposed. Both he and Kemp need that body of work in the VFL to set themselves up for next season.

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #54
Pretty sure this will be Walsh's 50th game.

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #55
Agree, I thought he was a very good player the times I saw him at U18 level and the ideal swingman type that every club needs.
Against the Box Hill Hawks he looked thin, lacking in power to break tackles and was attempting to crash through packs like he could at u18 level where he often had a size advantage but was often getting caught in the game on the weekend.
I thought he did as well as could be expected but he isnt ready for senior footy and we have to be careful how he is managed.
Got no doubt he will make a very fine senior player but this season is about building his body and adjusting from the U18 comp to playing vs men and thats going to take time.
We saw Parks do ok early but when we ran into the heavyweight teams he looked like a SANFL player with only 15 games to his name and was badly exposed. Both he and Kemp need that body of work in the VFL to set themselves up for next season.

I thought that Kemp showed a good step and the strength to dispose of the ball quite well when tackled but, you’re right, he needs VFL game time to prepare him for an AFL debut later in the season.

You’re right about Parks too.  He could be a regular in the 22 but he needs a lot of work in the VFL before he will be able to perform consistently at AFL level.  I think that relatively unknown players can get a couple of games’ grace before the opposition analysts work out how to exploit them.

That leaves us with two options to replace Plow; Casboult and Williamson, neither of whom would be first choice in an ideal world.  Seeing as we have plenty of run out of defence, I would go for Casboult with his ability to play at both ends of the ground and in the ruck.

Docherty has to stay on the wing - that’s one positional change that has paid off - and he couldn’t play Plow’s role.

I would bring Martin in for Gibbons and make Dow the sub.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #56
Kemp seemed free to rotate and pivot on the knees with no impedement. No strapping either so it seems he is well and truly (fingers and toes crossed) over the injury. From the highlights that I saw, I liked what I saw, a lot. He hits targets repeatedly though which is a worry, that wont be tolerated at senior level so he needs to work on that.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #57
I thought that Kemp showed a good step and the strength to dispose of the ball quite well when tackled but, you’re right, he needs VFL game time to prepare him for an AFL debut later in the season.

You’re right about Parks too.  He could be a regular in the 22 but he needs a lot of work in the VFL before he will be able to perform consistently at AFL level.  I think that relatively unknown players can get a couple of games’ grace before the opposition analysts work out how to exploit them.

That leaves us with two options to replace Plow; Casboult and Williamson, neither of whom would be first choice in an ideal world.  Seeing as we have plenty of run out of defence, I would go for Casboult with his ability to play at both ends of the ground and in the ruck.

Docherty has to stay on the wing - that’s one positional change that has paid off - and he couldn’t play Plow’s role.

I would bring Martin in for Gibbons and make Dow the sub.
Agree, I'd keep Docherty on the wing, he seemed comfortable as did Williams at half back.
Martin has to come back in, not sure about Dow vs the Swans who have a very close checking midfield, think I would run him in the twos and maybe look at playing him vs West Coast.
Swans have some decent size up in the front half and I agree that Casboult might be more handy although selectors dont often pick three rucks in the one team.

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #58
JSOS is my number 1 selection for the Plowman role.  I think he is possibly the best one to move back particularly if he is a chip off the old block. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

 

Re: Pre game discussions: AFL 2021 Rd 11: Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #59
Kemp seemed free to rotate and pivot on the knees with no impedement. No strapping either so it seems he is well and truly (fingers and toes crossed) over the injury. From the highlights that I saw, I liked what I saw, a lot. He hits targets repeatedly though which is a worry, that wont be tolerated at senior level so he needs to work on that.
@Gointocarlton  I heard Kemp was over the knee issues a long time back, it was some other injury which kept him out more recently.
The Force Awakens!