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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1515 –
Quote
Russian officials bragged in conversations during the presidential campaign that they had cultivated a strong relationship with former Trump adviser retired Gen. Michael Flynn and believed they could use him to influence Donald Trump and his team, sources told CNN.
Russian officials bragged they could use Flynn to influence Trump, sources say, CNN.

Amazing...

Flynn apparently did influence US policy in Syria.  The Obama administration had proposed to back Kurdish rebels in Syria as they were keen to attack ISIS (whereas Assad and Russia were more interested in attacking rebels).  Flynn opposed this and the operation didn't proceed.

Now, it just so happens that this aligned with the views of Erdogan's Turkey.  Turkey is highly opposed to arming the Kurds for any reason.  Just because Flynn and Erdogan were of the same mind doesn't mean anything was dodgy.  Great minds may just think alike.

But after his dismissal by Trump, Flynn finally registered as an agent of the Turkish Government and disclosed that the Turks paid the firm employing Flynn $500,000. So Trump had an undisclosed agent of the Turkish Government as National Security Adviser influencing White House policy in line with the views of the Turkish Government.   ::)

Would Flynn have acted as an agent of influence for the Kremlin if he hadn't been sacked?

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1517 –
Quote from: mateinone on
I mean this with all due respect, but I can't respond to crackpot literature/"documentaries". ( I am calling them crackpot not yourself btw).

Even the overview is enough to make it clear that this is from a hard right wing style group. I can read the same sort of "history" by any holocaust denial "historian" also. See my comments on Weber.

hard either side is irrelevant. With reciprocal due respect, is any of it fiction?
we're talking about the outbreak of WW2 and annexing of German lands - nothing to do with weber or holocaust

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1518 –
Quote from: thrunthrublu on

we're talking about the outbreak of WW2 and annexing of German lands - nothing to do with weber or holocaust

Oh I get that (though I don't agree with the annexing of German lands. I mention Weber and the holocaust as examples of revisionists. Which I consider those that made this video to be, though I didn't finish it as it seems a waste of time, I can read similar articles as well, but I disagree with the conclusions they draw also.

Just a couple of small points though around the annexing on German lands. Is Germany considering the "Holy Roman Empire" as what is German land or is it considering anything that any time was ever taken by the Germans?

I ask because Danzig/Gdansk, was made up of majority German people, but was not German land, the only time it really was "German" was during the period where Germany and Russia took Poland by force and dissolved the entire country.

I also ask at what period Germany is referring when it says that the Sudetenland in Czech was German.. Again it was German majority, but that alone doesn't make it German.

The "documentary" does at all try and take an unbias look at things, it says that poor little Hitler was forced into any of his actions and just wanted to live happily with everyone, but that isn't true, there was absolute no requirement to invade Poland, for a start it is not like the German majority in Danzig was being persecuted in fact history shows the opposite and that once the NAZI party took over in Danzig the Polish and Jewish minorities were under attack.

The reason I couldn't watch the lot was simple, I feel I know exactly what they are trying to achieve and it is just like watching a Michael Moore "documentary".

If lands go to whoever once took them by force, then all of Europe has claims to be owned elsewhere, from the Danes owning most of England (in a very abstract manner as it was never claimed for Denmark), to Italy owning most of Europe and Napoleon from the West Coast of Europe to Moscow.

In my view of the world, Hitler's Germany was about expansionism and yes cleansing Europe of "undesirables", it was about absolute power under one party and one person. Any talk of unification of lost lands, was simply talk to bolster support of the masses in a frenzy of patriotic support for a greater motherland.

German never went to war to prevent Stalin and France from encircling and taking Germany, that simply could not be less true. If that really was the aim of Stalin and France, Germany was ripe for the picking as soon as it disarmed.

Edit:
One thing I will say... The Treaty of Versailles strongly contributed to World War II and in fact the attraction of the NAZI party in Germany, because it sought belittle and bankrupt a proud nation. It was a huge mistake by the allies after World War I.
If doesn't however excuse Hitler and Germany for World War II.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1519 –
Quote from: mateinone on
Oh I get that (though I don't agree with the annexing of German lands. I mention Weber and the holocaust as examples of revisionists. Which I consider those that made this video to be, though I didn't finish it as it seems a waste of time, I can read similar articles as well, but I disagree with the conclusions they draw also.

Just a couple of small points though around the annexing on German lands. Is Germany considering the "Holy Roman Empire" as what is German land or is it considering anything that any time was ever taken by the Germans?

I ask because Danzig/Gdansk, was made up of majority German people, but was not German land, the only time it really was "German" was during the period where Germany and Russia took Poland by force and dissolved the entire country.

I also ask at what period Germany is referring when it says that the Sudetenland in Czech was German.. Again it was German majority, but that alone doesn't make it German.

The "documentary" does at all try and take an unbias look at things, it says that poor little Hitler was forced into any of his actions and just wanted to live happily with everyone, but that isn't true, there was absolute no requirement to invade Poland, for a start it is not like the German majority in Danzig was being persecuted in fact history shows the opposite and that once the NAZI party took over in Danzig the Polish and Jewish minorities were under attack.

The reason I couldn't watch the lot was simple, I feel I know exactly what they are trying to achieve and it is just like watching a Michael Moore "documentary".

If lands go to whoever once took them by force, then all of Europe has claims to be owned elsewhere, from the Danes owning most of England (in a very abstract manner as it was never claimed for Denmark), to Italy owning most of Europe and Napoleon from the West Coast of Europe to Moscow.

In my view of the world, Hitler's Germany was about expansionism and yes cleansing Europe of "undesirables", it was about absolute power under one party and one person. Any talk of unification of lost lands, was simply talk to bolster support of the masses in a frenzy of patriotic support for a greater motherland.

German never went to war to prevent Stalin and France from encircling and taking Germany, that simply could not be less true. If that really was the aim of Stalin and France, Germany was ripe for the picking as soon as it disarmed.

The carve up of Germany after WW1, the reparations thereafter, the occupation of the ruhr by the french, left Germany in a hopeless situation. Plundered from inside and out and Berlin turned into a cesspool. Context is important.
 The planned destruction of Germany wasn't because of expansionism, nazism, Poland, or anything else other than for Balance. A usury free state, zero unemployment, high home ownership, workers rights zero debt was a system that was unacceptable to world jewry at the time, hence them declaring war on Germany and ensuring it eventuated at all costs. Expansionism was clear under Stalin, who plundered his own people , stole and starved them to fund this. The soviets were not signatories to the 1929 Geneva convention and were a massive threat to not only Germany but to all of Europe. When you speak to the old soldiers, Red terror was the real threat to europe.
Funnily enough, these soldiers knew the war was over in 1943 deep into barbarossa, when they found used cans of american food stuffs everywhere left by Stalins armies. They knew the Americans had made "deliveries"
There have been many lies for 75 years and they will continue to persist , even in this age of information or disinformation. Why? opinions vary. I know, and im comfortable with that. The fact that This conversation is teetering on being even illegal in 19 countries, says something

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1520 –
Trump has not done many things correct, some may say none.

But credit when credit is due!

Labelling those lunatic bombers "Losers" is possible going to be the best thing that comes out of his Presidency and it should be the default label we give all these lunatics from now on!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1521 –
Trump is living proof that bullsh1t will baffle brains. But only for so long... When will the Democrats realise that they shouldn't attack Trump personally but rather attribute everything he does, publicly, to the Republicans... Clueless pr1cks are being sucked into the Trump approach.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1522 –
All today's events will achieve is another series of retaliatory cruise missile and drone strikes obliterating a couple of villages and cave systems in some obscure, unpronounceable part of the world. Slaughtered kids in Manchester, slaughtered kids in Arseholistan.   No good comes out of this for anybody.  Anybody thinking that the Trump administration can come up with the knock out strategy to end the carnage is kidding themselves.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1524 –
By the way, as much as Trump would like to focus on Iran, the Shi'ites aren't likely to bomb us.  Al Qaeda and ISIS are Sunni extremists.  The Saudis have a long connection to Wahabi extremists.  But when Trump bows down to the Saudi king, there's no chance he'll tell them to pull their heads in.
 

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1525 –
Quote from: Mav on
By the way, as much as Trump would like to focus on Iran, the Shi'ites aren't likely to bomb us.  Al Qaeda and ISIS are Sunni extremists.  The Saudis have a long connection to Wahabi extremists.  But when Trump bows down to the Saudi king, there's no chance he'll tell them to pull their heads in.

Exactly. Any wonder the Saudi's look so happy having Trump in their pocket... now, what will the Democrats, some Republicans and 'fake' media do with that. The image of Trump at the Israeli wall must have sickened many Muslims...
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1526 –
Quote from: Mav on
Interesting take on fighting ISIS from Israeli military officers: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/05/22/israeli-officers-to-trump-youre-doing-isis-wrong-215172?lo=ap_d1.

Yep..the Trump lets bomb the crap out of ISIS theory will lead to ISIS going underground and increasing guerilla tactics, they know they cant beat the US in conventional warfare
and will step up the terror stuff. The US did their best work in the middle east in the old days when they played the politics well and had different leaders and countries on the payroll
and working for them , using them against each other...blowing up everything that moves will only cause more problems.
Russia tried the heavy army action vs the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan and left  with their tails between their legs and a lot poorer for the exercise.....

US need to  find a way to get Trump to resign before he does anymore damage...our economy is suffering too thanks to his antics back home...the man is a disaster in all areas...

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1527 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
Yep..the Trump lets bomb the crap out of ISIS theory will lead to ISIS going underground and increasing guerilla tactics, they know they cant beat the US in conventional warfare
and will step up the terror stuff. The US did their best work in the middle east in the old days when they played the politics well and had different leaders and countries on the payroll
and working for them , using them against each other...blowing up everything that moves will only cause more problems.
Russia tried the heavy army action vs the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan and left  with their tails between their legs and a lot poorer for the exercise.....

US need to  find a way to get Trump to resign before he does anymore damage...our economy is suffering too thanks to his antics back home...the man is a disaster in all areas...


Yeah maybe they need to bring back Obama to fix the problem. Leftist fools...

We have lost all control of our society with all the integration. You can't integrate certain cultures and until the left starts to recognise this fact, hope of winning an election here or in the US is very slim.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1528 –
Looks like Comey was sucked into holding his extraordinary press conference in which he both cleared and condemned Clinton by a faked Russian account of an email between 2 Americans which allegedly stated that Loretta Lynch would whitewash Clinton regardless of the FBI findings:
How a dubious Russian document influenced the FBI’s handling of the Clinton probe, WaPo.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #1529 –
I don't want to politicise such an awful tragedy as the Manchester bombing, but these leaks of sensitive information are seriously a worry, not only for this investigation, but for what might be withheld for fears of future leaks.

Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL