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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3300
Or surrender monkeys.
France stood up for us against China at the G7, ............ it's not like they buy uranium off us, ................. sacre bleu! :o
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3301
If you were placed in charge, how would you deal with Covid without resorting to restrictions? Would you just trust that there’d be no spike in infections? Perhaps you wouldn’t care whether one occurred because it’s no big deal? But what would you do?

It’s easy to fixate on the costs of a course of action if you don’t have to worry about proposing alternatives. For instance, funding the military in Australia is a massive cost. There isn’t anyone trying to invade us now and absent the arrival of white colonists we’ve never been invaded before. So we could save a lot of money by disbanding the military.

I'd stage the imposition of restrictions so that things continue relatively as normal until otherwise required, and am watching NSW with intrigue.  My assumption is that they will get on top of this relatively quickly.  The data shows 32 positive cases over 7 days for over 160 000 tests.  The latest 10 are all close contacts and household members of those already positive.  Which means, that their response is so far commensurate with the risk.


Seperate to that, I would be imposing practical safe guards to prevent outbreaks from growing before they begin  in a future state to try and keep normality normal for as long as possible.  Regular testing of someone coming out of hotel quarantine is a requirement for one month post quarantine.

I have witnessed lines of people waiting to get tested where they are all in each others faces, and there is no booking system for a test.  Implement one, so that way you know who is coming where and when, rather than seeing a bunch of people standing around waiting to get tested.  Yes, walk ins are ok, but Ive seen more scope for spread waiting to be tested than in a lot of places, and that was including during our big outbreaks last year.

I wouldn't be cancelling all the elective surgeries at the first sign of outbreak, because we should have mandatory testing for those going in for elective surgery.  No negative test, no surgery and that continues irrespective of outbreak landscape to ensure that surgery and health care workers are protected.  Cancelling all non essential surgeries at the first sign of outbreak, is problematic for a whole host of reasons, and I see no reason why they were cancelled recently.

The rules about new born dads only having 1 hour a day with mum and new born during out breaks is stupid and should be removed irrespective of outbreak.  Let them have a test in the lead up to birth, and then you can be somewhat sure about their covid free state (and if unwell dont come at all, your new born will thank you later).  I know of one infant in NICU who's parents were both allowed to visit seperately for less than 1 hour at a time....  Useless.  They are more likely to walk out, catch covid, and then walk back in with it, than they are to go in and stay in for the day.

Schools continue until outbreaks implicate those students, and then into isolation unless wider restrictions result in more online learning.

Footy plays on with or without fans, as scheduled.  The players are subjected to regular covid tests, and for the most part, should be playing on irrespective of covid state.  The fact that there is this big rush to "get out" wreaks of stupidity as once we declare a lockdown, the point is to catch positive people before they run off, so the big rush to leave results in a potentially quick and large spread, instead of encouraging good behaviours.  Result more spread, not less.

QR codes....  What is the point in QR coding people at a service station to fill up their car?  They spend more time qr coding than they do with the attendant and that just makes people hang around longer.  Practicality should trump the necessity to record things for the sake of it.

I am not advocating free movement of everyone, but there are better ways to do this than simply lock everyone up in a panic.  I am not even privy to the information that they all have to come up with some of this stuff because I am aware that the government knows more than it tells its people.  Gladys not locking down is a tell in itself that this one will fizzle out.

What I do know, is that the mandatory testing of front liners is wanting.  I know at the airport and in the health care networks the tests are not happening to the staff that are required.  The mask wearing is something that lacks common sense.  If you walk into a hospital as a staff member, that just put a mask on in the car, they require you change it in the hospital.

Quantitive and Qualitative risk analysis is missing from a lot of our measures.  I can go to a restaurant with 100 strangers where we all eat maskless, but I cannot go to a wedding with 100 people whom I know, and whom are more likely to avoid going if unwell because they dont want to kill aunty ruby (or maybe they do, but thats beside the point).

I went to a christening of twins in Feb.  Over 100 people, not one chance of catching covid even though we were in restrictions a week later.

We make vaccines available.  AZ, Pfizer, whatever.  We tell everyone exactly what the hold up is, why its taking so long, and then at some point when everyone has had access to a vaccine, and declined to take it we let it rip until things get out of hand and we can revert back to controlling its spread again. 

 We are going to have periods where there is overlap between vaccine where people are at risk, but I can tell you now, that the administration of vaccines in the hospital is on a first come first serve basis.  You  walk in as a health care worker and you get one, irrespective of whether you are a cleaner or a surgeon because they didnt both prioritising.  The fact they are discouraging  too many from one department to go at one time, and to go just before a break between shifts is an indicator, that they know about side effects and the illness and sick leave caused by it.  If people are refusing vaccines, well, statistics are statistics.  You would feel pretty bloody stupid getting a disease you could have protected yourself against if it has a bad outcome attached, and thats a learning opportunity for the anti vax movement that will help us all in the long run so perhaps natural selection will work for the greater good there.

You know, I look abroad and we have been given a lot of hyperbole about this disease, and yet we dont have a 3rd world health care system, we dont even have a risk averse approach to covid (if IT issues occur, the IT guys go into the covid ward which is a massive tell about the covid risk because why would  you send someone in if it was truly dangerous who doesn't need to go in, particularly for a mundane issue like one workstation offline or to install a fax machine when papers can be passed around quite easily or revert to electronic documentation, but I digress).

I dont speak from a position of not seeing some of the hypocrisy up close and personal, which means either the hospital workers are cognisent of the risk, and then take more risks than necessary anyway (doubtful) or the risk isnt as great as we are being told about, and the news out there is to encourage people to limit their stupidity outside of covid infection, in case they become the super spreader you guys describe.

Since covid started, I lead a rather simple existence.  Catch ups with different families are a fortnight apart, just in case you only hit my side or my mrs side.  We generally do grocery shopping, and stay at home activities where possible unless we need something else.



"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3302
Thryleon, it seems to me that you aren’t proposing a response which is much different from the status quo. You are really proposing a number of tweaks, many of which I wouldn’t oppose.

I agree that the 14 day quarantine is a bit arbitrary and is a bit of a compromise between public safety and individual freedom. Frequent post-release testing would be sensible, especially as there’s a risk of being infected in hotel quarantine while exiting. But keeping track of those who have just been released would be a challenge as they’d no doubt feel like their lives have been upended enough at that stage. Again, testing queues are a compromise required to ensure a sufficient volume of tests: bookings and staggered entry would be ideal, of course. Football games are moved to avoid crowd less games: bad for TV coverage and a loss at the gate. And if they’re played in a Covid hotspot, opposing teams may be unable or unwilling to come and incur quarantine restrictions. But I wouldn’t be against your proposals.

It really does come down to whether a possible outbreak should trigger tight restrictions until the extent of infections is known and addressed. NSW will indeed be interesting in this regard.

But for me vaccinations are the key. I don’t have a problem with opening up when we’re approaching herd immunity and everyone has had the opportunity to be fully vaccinated (i.e. both doses). But we’re nowhere near that. For instance, I’ve only had the 1 dose and that gives me only a 33% chance of resisting infection but the 2nd dose in August will increase that to 60-90%.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3303
And destroy alliances, international commitments in a threatened world?  This isn't the utopian land of Star Trek.  Or surrender monkeys.    
I guess you could argue that the lack of immediate threats is due to the military expenditure and those who assume we could have had the same level of protection if the military didn’t exist are wrong. Much like I would argue that those who say the low level of Covid infection would have been the same in the absence of restrictions are naive.

And I guess you would argue that the absence of visible military threats doesn’t mean they aren’t developing. Much as I’d argue that the absence of a new Covid wave doesn’t mean one is not on the horizon.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3304
Schools continue until outbreaks implicate those students, and then into isolation unless wider restrictions result in more online learning.
The problem here seems to be that when a virus variant is fast moving, due to the lag in diagnosis, by the time you get a positive case detection it's too late and you're in another snap lockdown anyway.

I sympathise with teachers and other school staff, they are in someway being treated by the general public as canaries.

Are you going to test all the kids pre-emptively? If so what happens to the poor kid who is first off the block, dragged out of school to be the eternal target of ridicule!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3305
NSW have a better contact tracing dept staffed correctly with more trained healthcare staff, I would expect NSW to have better control and shorter restriction periods...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3306
Don’t worry, that means we’ll have a priority draft pick in the next contact tracing national draft.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3307
Thryleon, it seems to me that you aren’t proposing a response which is much different from the status quo. You are really proposing a number of tweaks, many of which I wouldn’t oppose.

I agree that the 14 day quarantine is a bit arbitrary and is a bit of a compromise between public safety and individual freedom. Frequent post-release testing would be sensible, especially as there’s a risk of being infected in hotel quarantine while exiting. But keeping track of those who have just been released would be a challenge as they’d no doubt feel like their lives have been upended enough at that stage. Again, testing queues are a compromise required to ensure a sufficient volume of tests: bookings and staggered entry would be ideal, of course. Football games are moved to avoid crowd less games: bad for TV coverage and a loss at the gate. And if they’re played in a Covid hotspot, opposing teams may be unable or unwilling to come and incur quarantine restrictions. But I wouldn’t be against your proposals.

It really does come down to whether a possible outbreak should trigger tight restrictions until the extent of infections is known and addressed. NSW will indeed be interesting in this regard.

But for me vaccinations are the key. I don’t have a problem with opening up when we’re approaching herd immunity and everyone has had the opportunity to be fully vaccinated (i.e. both doses). But we’re nowhere near that. For instance, I’ve only had the 1 dose and that gives me only a 33% chance of resisting infection but the 2nd dose in August will increase that to 60-90%.

The main point of difference is when.

The main point of difference is that I think we've gone too hard too early. 

That and I think aspiring to zero is unrealistic. 



"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3308
Don’t worry, that means we’ll have a priority draft pick in the next contact tracing national draft.
Dan would be like our recruiters and stuff that up as well...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3309
Seems the new cases tally is consistently in double figures in NSW. Victorians know all about that ...

They regard a birthday party as a superspreader event, so Sydney’s luck has run out. But it could have been worse: the last outbreak in Melbourne was sparked by some infected people travelling all over the place but in Sydney the infected people have stayed in their local area.

The restrictions are now breeding like rabbits:
  • Visitors to households will be limited to 5 guests — including children
  • Masks will be compulsory in all indoor non-residential settings, including workplaces, and at organised outdoor events
  • Drinking while standing at indoor venues will not be allowed
  • Singing by audiences at indoor shows or by congregants at indoor places of worship will not be allowed
  • Dancing will not be allowed at indoor hospitality venues or nightclubs however, dancing is allowed at weddings for the bridal party only (no more than 20 people)
  • Dance and gym classes limited to 20 per class (masks must be worn)
  • The one person per four square metre rule will be re-introduced for all indoor and outdoor settings, including weddings and funerals
  • Outdoor seated events will be limited to 50 per cent seated capacity
  • Previous public transport capacity limits, represented by green dots, will be reintroduced
Non-essential travel from the affected areas to regional areas is banned.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3310
Mother in law has had her second jab and has been experiencing cramps in her legs. The doctor said it's a side effect and to keep an eye on it.

Has got worse and is off work, having scans tomorrow.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3312
@madbluboy .... best wishes she gets well :)

 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3313
Has got worse and is off work, having scans tomorrow.

I hope they get on top of this quickly, MBB. Wishing her a speedy recovery. Best wishes, mate...
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3314
Not good news. Hope all goes well.