http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/depleted-bombers-still-have-blues-measure/news-story/8f2a6fa8b57ca6432fc636400fa3a881#load-story-comments
Is Jon Ralph a tosser or what??
TEC can you copy and paste the article? I don't subscribe to the HUN and can't view the article.
ONLY four seasons ago two Melbourne teams boasting 32 combined AFL premierships met in the 2011 elimination final.
In his first year golden boy James Hird led a bright young Essendon side into the finals, with 90,370 expectant fans witnessing the MCG contest.
They were found wanting against Brett Ratten’s burgeoning Blues, with Lachie Henderson, Eddie Betts, Jeff Garlett and Bret Thornton leading the way in a 62-point defeat.
No one needs recount what has happened in the intervening years, as Essendon enters 2016 with many predicting a barren and winless season.
How can you compete without 12 of your best players; most of your first-choice midfield; the AFL’s best two key defenders of 2015 or recent departees Paddy Ryder and Jake Carlisle.
And yet this season will undoubtedly witness a pair of ghoulish and engrossing contests against Essendon and the side it played in that recent final.
With Carlton embarking upon the most comprehensive rebuild in its history, can Essendon beat the Blues even with one hand tied behind its back?
Absolutely, given Carlton’s desperation to bottom out and the experienced hands being recruited by Essendon’s Adrian Dodoro.
On paper the Blues clearly boast a superior side, one boasting Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs, Matthew Kreuzer and future captain Patrick Cripps.
But that same side finished 2015 with four wins, then lost 15 players including Chris Judd, Chris Yarran, Troy Menzel, Tom Bell, Lachie Henderson and Andrew Carrazzo.
Carlton wants to win its next premiership rather than be mired in mediocrity — which is why their bravery should be commended.
Yet if you were an Essendon fan, consider this takeout from a year of undoubted pain.
Aaron Francis and Darcy Parish play 14-18 games, Jayden Laverde and Kyle Langford add second-year experience and you roll the arch enemy at least once for the year.
Of course that 2011 defeat would form some part of Hird’s determination to speed Essendon’s development with a peptides regimen.
Only months later after Essendon smashed Carlton in early 2012 suspicious Blues officials secretly taped a meeting with the chemist supplying those peptides.
Then the Blues would leapfrog Essendon after they were booted from the 2013 finals series.
Champion Data’s assessment of these lists basically hands Carlton and Essendon a nil-all draw.
It says Essendon drops from a side with two elite players (Cale Hooker and Michael Hurley) and four above average players to a list without a single player in either category.
On its assessment the Blues have no elite players and only Kade Simpson and Marc Murphy as above average.
Of Carlton’s list, eight players are ranked below average, eight are poor and a further 12 haven’t played more than 10 games in the past two seasons.
The assessment is based on statistical indicators and is hurt by Patrick Cripps’ label as a statistically average player.
You don’t need a stats sheet to know he is heading to elite with a bullet.
But you get the gist of the argument — on paper Essendon is still very much in the hunt in Round 6 and Round 23 against Carlton.
David Zaharakis celebrates a goal for Essendon. Picture: Wayne Ludbey
Especially if the top-ups that grew to include Mathew Stokes hold up their end of the bargain.
There will be times when a tired and injury-hit team of Essendon players are obliterated — most likely late in the year — when the kids run out of puff and the stars don’t fire.
Yet against fellow bottom-four teams, there will be glimpses of competitiveness.
An onball unit of ruckman Matthew Leuenberger, captain Brendon Goddard, young star Zach Merrett and James Kelly, Ryan Crowley, Matthew Stokes, Darcy Parish and Adam Cooney isn’t without hope against Carlton or Brisbane.
Mercifully, no side in finals contention plays Essendon and Carlton twice.
But St Kilda has four games against that pair and another two against Melbourne.
Geelong has double-up games against Essendon, 2015 battler Brisbane, expansion side GWS and eight Simonds Stadium contests.
All Essendon might have this year is the hope of beating Carlton.
It wouldn’t be Kevin Sheedy’s Baby Bombers beating Carlton to win the 1993 flag, but for this year it do very nicely indeed.
BAD NEWS BOMBERS v GROUND ZERO BLUES
Jon Ralph picks the best Essendon and Carlton line-ups
F: Dennis Armfield, Liam Jones, Dale Thomas
B: Mark Baguley, Mitch Brown, James Gwilt
HF: Sam Docherty, Levi Casboult, Andrejs Everitt
HB: Aaron Francis, Michael Hartley, Jonathan Simpkin*
C: Sam Kerridge, Patrick Cripps, Ed Curnow
C: Darcy Parish, Brendon Goddard, David Zaharakis
HB: Andrew Walker, Jacob Weitering, Kade Simpson
HF: Zach Merrett, Shaun McKernan, Paddy Ambrose
B: Dylan Buckley, Sam Rowe, Zach Tuohy
F: James Kelly*, Joe Daniher, Mathew Stokes*
R: Matthew Kreuzer, Marc Murphy, Bryce Gibbs
R: Matthew Leuenberger, Adam Cooney, Jackson Merrett
Inter: Charlie Curnow, Dennis Armfield, Daniel Gorringe, Michael Jamison
Inter: Ryan Crowley*, Courtenay Dempsey, Mark Jamar*, Kyle Langford
Emerg: Simon White, Jason Tutt, Liam Sumner
Emerg: Jayden Laverde, Shaun Edwards, Nick Kommer
* Top-ups — Stokes and Jamar expected to sign
PEDESTRIAN AT BEST
Champion Data’s 2016 team ratings
ESSENDON PRE-BANS/POST BANS
Elite: 2/0
Above average: 4/0
Average: 10/7
Below Average: 8/6
Poor: 2/2
Unknown: 13/12
CARLTON
Elite: 0
Above average: 2
Average: 9
Below Average: 8
Poor: 8
Unknown: 12
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/depleted-bombers-still-have-blues-measure/news-story/8f2a6fa8b57ca6432fc636400fa3a881#load-story-comments
Is Jon Ralph a tosser or what??
I actually don't entirely disagree with him. His tone also indicates that losing to Essendon is no real negative for us as we're looking at the bigger picture.
Looking at the two teams he has picked out though, on paper I think we'd win that match. There are a lot of variables though, a lot will depend on how quickly the Scums kids come along. We've just drafted tall so ours are less likely to to have an impact this year. They've gone and added a number of top up players, but some could suggest we did the same with all the players we brought in.
One thing is certain though, I think there will be a lot of spite in the games between us this year.
Docherty on the half-forward line.
Rowe ahead of Jamison?
Liam Jones at Full forward?
Walker on the backline?
No Jacksch
No Graham
No Boekhorst
Byrne and/or Sheehan are likely to be fit this year.
Armfield forward...and on the interchange bench ::)
Essendon will win a couple of games this year...they'll catch a couple of sides by surprise.
We won't be one of them.
Not sure what the point of this article is, reads like Ralph has a beef with Carlton and is out to stick it to us!
Just says ' don't take beating the Bummers for granted' to me. I agree with that and I'm sure we wont't if BB has anything to do with it.
Ralph Malph writes a lot of articles these days attacking Carlton, mostly they are not worth repeating so nobody does. It seemed to start around the time The Judge took over.
Does anyone know who he follows, is he possibly a Carlton man who sits on the wrong side of the board?
Docherty on the half-forward line.
Rowe ahead of Jamison?
Liam Jones at Full forward?
Walker on the backline?
No Jacksch
No Graham
No Boekhorst
Byrne and/or Sheehan are likely to be fit this year.
Armfield forward...and on the interchange bench ::)
Essendon will win a couple of games this year...they'll catch a couple of sides by surprise.
We won't be one of them.
Just a joke article full of ignorance and assumption. How do these blokes get paid for this junk?
With all of their mature players I think the bombers will be stronger than us as well this year but did it really need an article in the HeraldSun?
Ralph is a bumbers supporter and a total flog. The 93 baby bombers was media propaganda, they had many experienced older players but the lie keeps being tossed around.
My tip is the Bombers will start the season ok and maybe surprise a few teams but the lack of fitness with their older top ups will catch them out in the second part of the year and they will get hammered in plenty of games...
I would expect to maybe lose the first encounter with them and win the return game...we will also take time to adjust to the new game plan and it takes time for
new young players to gel together...Bombers old heads will probably blend better initially and they will physically intimidate us.
The sad facts are that the Bombers get themselves up for games vs us and think they can take us regardless of ladder position , off field issues etc......
Ralph is a bumbers supporter and a total flog. The 93 baby bombers was media propaganda, they had many experienced older players but the lie keeps being tossed around.
I thought Ralphy was a Tiger supporter? Could be wrong though. It would be good to know who the journo's support to see which barrow they are pushing?
Ralph seems to have put more thought into his Bombers' line up while the side he has picked for us has blokes out of position, named twice, and not considered.
Even with its retreads, Essendon will lack depth this season and that will be a telling factor as injuries bite and younger and poorly prepared players fatigue.
While Ralph's consideration of the lists is superficial, a more glaring issue is his failure to consider the coaches. Worsfold ended his career at Wet Toast as a coach found lacking. With his time out of the game, his ability to match it with the other coaches in terms of preparation, game plan and tactics must be questionable.
Of course, we have a novice in Bolton but I'd say that his experience over the last three years has been much better preparation than what Worsfold has had.
Essendon may jag a win or two, but not against us.
Heraldsun supercoach has a headline "Choose wisely: Fallen premium picks" with this pic attached lol.
(http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/8d9f40b3c96505ef54392492b04d9b73)
The glass is half full - we are a big chance to beat Essendon at least once in 2016. A couple of weeks ago you would have pencilled in 2 losses.
Ralph seems to have put more thought into his Bombers' line up while the side he has picked for us has blokes out of position, named twice, and not considered.
Even with its retreads, Essendon will lack depth this season and that will be a telling factor as injuries bite and younger and poorly prepared players fatigue.
While Ralph's consideration of the lists is superficial, a more glaring issue is his failure to consider the coaches. Worsfold ended his career at Wet Toast as a coach found lacking. With his time out of the game, his ability to match it with the other coaches in terms of preparation, game plan and tactics must be questionable.
Of course, we have a novice in Bolton but I'd say that his experience over the last three years has been much better preparation than what Worsfold has had.
Essendon may jag a win or two, but not against us.
Agree especially with your comments re. Woosher. I'm not too worried about the Bummers if we keep focused.
Not sure what the point of this article is, reads like Ralph has a beef with Carlton and is out to stick it to us!
I didn't get that vibe from it at all. I read it to be quite encouraging of what we're trying to achieve as a whole. He basically said it; Carlton are trying to win a premiership whilst Essendon are merely trying to remain relevant. The whole point of the article is that the only hope Essendon have of any joy this season is in beating a side that is starting from scratch and is full of kids. Which is entirely correct. Does it mean they're definitely going to beat us? No, as there are too many variables. But you have to give those Scum supporters something to be hopeful for...gotta feel sorry for them really ;)
Ralph is a bumbers supporter and a total flog. The 93 baby bombers was media propaganda, they had many experienced older players but the lie keeps being tossed around.
They're all flogs..... Sheehan, Robbo Ralph etc etc ... they are just footy fans who happen to be journo's... they and their opinions crap me to tears.
Carey, Dunstall, Brereton, King and Healy etc etc are flogs too ;D But they've played the game at the highest level so I respect their opinions.
I didn't get that vibe from it at all. I read it to be quite encouraging of what we're trying to achieve as a whole. He basically said it; Carlton are trying to win a premiership whilst Essendon are merely trying to remain relevant. The whole point of the article is that the only hope Essendon have of any joy this season is in beating a side that is starting from scratch and is full of kids. Which is entirely correct. Does it mean they're definitely going to beat us? No, as there are too many variables. But you have to give those Scum supporters something to be hopeful for...gotta feel sorry for them really ;)
No you don't! I had the misfortune to spend Australia Day with two of them and they were insufferable - not that it wasn't easy to put them back in their box :)
I think you're right about the underlying factors; we're aiming for a premiership and they're aiming to survive. Apart from that, it's a superficial article that fails to really analyse the strengths and weaknesses of both sides.
I thought Ralphy was a Tiger supporter? Could be wrong though. It would be good to know who the journo's support to see which barrow they are pushing?
I thought he was a Tiggie Feral too....
Ralph is a bumbers supporter and a total flog. The 93 baby bombers was media propaganda, they had many experienced older players but the lie keeps being tossed around.
A mate of mine went to school with J Ralph and he told me years ago that "he always was a flog and always will be". He was right.
Asshole + Opinion = Opinionated Asshole
Einsteins previously unpublished theory of relativity. :)
I particularly enjoyed the direct reference to Carlton's suspicions (raised after they physically smashed us only 5 days after the '12 ANZAC day game). Happy that it is out there, that the feral filth now know where the doom came from. That's all that matters in this poxy piece, there were so many players out of position it was farcical.
Personally don't care how many games we win or not this year, but THE FILTH ARE NOT TO PREVAIL.
This generation love tats so I would tattoo it to every player, THE FILTH MUST NOT WIN
>:D
I particularly enjoyed the direct reference to Carlton's suspicions (raised after they physically smashed us only 5 days after the '12 ANZAC day game). Happy that it is out there, that the feral SCUM now know where the doom came from. That's all that matters in this poxy piece, there were so many players out of position it was farcical.
Personally don't care how many games we win or not this year, but THE SCUM ARE NOT TO PREVAIL.
This generation love tats so I would tattoo it to every player, THE SCUM MUST NOT WIN
>:D
EFA ;D. I was always brought up that Collingwood are The Filth and The Cheating Kents are The Scum. Having said that, happy to refer the to them as Filth. or anything other than their proper name and anything that resembles goodness.
I thought he was a Tiggie Feral too....
yep, Tigers afaiaw. But heck, anti CFC most definitely.
EFA ;D. I was always brought up that Collingwood are The Filth and The Cheating Kents are The Scum. Having said that, happy to refer the to them as Filth. or anything other than their proper name and anything that resembles goodness.
EssenScum then, EssenScum now and EssenScum forever!
Yet I feel this label is derogatory to scum everywhere, does scum deserve such a cruel allegory? :o
Apparently Jobe Watson will be going into commentary after footy on channel 7.
Does anyone else think that this leaves a bitter taste in the mouth?
Disgraced and removed from all involvement should be the way this goes, not compensated and celebrated.
FMD they don't know how to read the landscape. Its like giving lance Armstrong a position commentating on the tour de france.
Apparently Jobe Watson will be going into commentary after footy on channel 7.
Does anyone else think that this leaves a bitter taste in the mouth?
Disgraced and removed from all involvement should be the way this goes, not compensated and celebrated.
FMD they don't know how to read the landscape. Its like giving lance Armstrong a position commentating on the tour de france.
Pure nepotism/cronyism. What do you expect Thry?
Anyway, he didn't do anything wrong - it's all a conspiracy to get EFC! ::)
Apparently Jobe Watson will be going into commentary after footy on channel 7.
Does anyone else think that this leaves a bitter taste in the mouth?
Disgraced and removed from all involvement should be the way this goes, not compensated and celebrated.
FMD they don't know how to read the landscape. Its like giving lance Armstrong a position commentating on the tour de france.
I don't think you can compare Jobe and Lance's situations.
I don't think you can compare Jobe and Lance's situations.
Why, are you being apologetic on behalf of Jab?!!
Apparently Jobe Watson will be going into commentary after footy on channel 7.
Does anyone else think that this leaves a bitter taste in the mouth?
Disgraced and removed from all involvement should be the way this goes, not compensated and celebrated.
FMD they don't know how to read the landscape. Its like giving lance Armstrong a position commentating on the tour de france.
I agree with this 200%
I don't think you can compare Jobe and Lance's situations.
True; Armstrong avoided detection for much longer so you could say that he is a more successful drug cheat than Watson. At the end of the day, they are both drug cheats.
The AFL industry is a very close-knit, incestuous group and they will close ranks to protect and support members of the group.
However, I will be looking forward to football commentators making correct use of the term "former Brownlow Medalist" when they say, "Over to former Brownlow Medalist Jobe Watson for his sycophantic comments on the undermanned Bombers' very honourable loss to the premiership favourites, Carlton."
Yes, I'm probably dreaming, the AFL boys club will probably let Watson keep the Brownlow he won by drug cheating.
Why, are you being apologetic on behalf of Jab?!!
No but what lance did is in a different stratosphere.
No but what lance did is in a different stratosphere.
In relation to the sports they both participated in, it could be stated that Lance was actually a "fairer" drug cheat as PED use has been a long term issue across the sport as a whole.
:-X
In either case, the athletes are generally disgraced, and shouldnt be thrust into the media on the first season off. They are talking about him joining the AFL commentary team this season. Surely there are more appropriate people who are elligible and would like to do the job is the crux of the point.
In relation to the sports they both participated in, it could be stated that Lance was actually a "fairer" drug cheat as PED use has been a long term issue across the sport as a whole.
:-X
In either case, the athletes are generally disgraced, and shouldnt be thrust into the media on the first season off. They are talking about him joining the AFL commentary team this season. Surely there are more appropriate people who are elligible and would like to do the job is the crux of the point.
I thought you said it was after footy? If it's this year while he is banned then x1000000 from me.
They couldn't possibly have him in a commentary team this year.
(Just as an aside I wonder whether the ban extends to him not being allowed on an AFL ground on game day...I would think it should.)
Jobe couldn't go onto an AFL ground during a game as the WADA rules do not allow athletes to associate with banned athletes.
Ch 7 could hire him this year but that would mean no AFL player could be on that show while he is working or they also face a ban.
Yeah mea culpa, ESSENSCUM is the correct insult, just got carried away ;)
Ho does Jab 'I did nothing wrong oh yeah but I didn't report the injections' Watson have enough cred left to work on TV?
Ho does Jab 'I did nothing wrong oh yeah but I didn't report the injections' Watson have enough cred left to work on TV?
Same reason his knuckle head dad had a gig as a sports anchor despite zero experience and talent.
Ho does Jab 'I did nothing wrong oh yeah but I didn't report the injections' Watson have enough cred left to work on TV?
He doesn't need cred, it's Ch.7 and they are coupled to EFC goolies deep!
If Jab turns up on channel 7 it's a disgrace. There is a really ugly AFL undertone to this mess. They accept the WADA ban but don't seem to feel it's their role to support the finding in any way.
If Jab turns up on channel 7 it's a disgrace. There is a really ugly AFL undertone to this mess. They accept the WADA ban but don't seem to feel it's their role to support the finding in any way.
You are giving the AFL too much credit, it's driven by the media rights holders not the AFL.
The AFL is almost powerless at this stage in the new media rights bargaining process, unless of course it's happy to put the future of the sport over profit and accept less money, at which time they would probably be sued and lose!
You are giving the AFL too much credit, it's driven by the media rights holders not the AFL.
The AFL is almost powerless at this stage in the new media rights bargaining process, unless of course it's happy to put the future of the sport over profit and accept less money, at which time they would probably be sued and lose!
The AFL control all the media outlets they sign up with regarding AFL topics.
That's why SEN got to cover games, the AFL "needed" more control over a 24 hour sports radio station.
Don't think they wouldn't have their hands dirty on this type if thing.
The AFL control all the media outlets they sign up with regarding AFL topics.
That's why SEN got to cover games, the AFL "needed" more control over a 24 hour sports radio station.
Don't think they wouldn't have their hands dirty on this type if thing.
The money rules, it's that simple.
The money rules, it's that simple.
Sadly true. :(
Jon Ralph's article relies on Champion Data's statistical analysis which concludes that we have "no elite players and only Kade Simpson and Marc Murphy as above average" and Patrick Cripps is average.
However, in today's Age, Jon Pierik reviews Richmond through the use of Champion Data's statistical analysis and that places Chris Yarran in the above average category. I understand that Champion Data uses statistics gathered over two seasons and Yarran had a good year in 2014 and an above ranking for that season is fair enough. His form last season stank and must have dragged his ranking down to below average.
If Yarran's above average ranking is legitimate, most of our list would have to be average or above average.
If Yarran's above average ranking is legitimate, most of our list would have to be average or above average.
In that statement lies the truth about the folly of a purely statistical analysis.
A player can be ranked highly but have no "value" at all!
In that statement lies the truth about the folly of a purely statistical analysis.
A player can be ranked highly but have no "value" at all!
Must have taken his northern blues form into account.
Jon Ralph's article relies on Champion Data's statistical analysis which concludes that we have "no elite players and only Kade Simpson and Marc Murphy as above average" and Patrick Cripps is average.
However, in today's Age, Jon Pierik reviews Richmond through the use of Champion Data's statistical analysis and that places Chris Yarran in the above average category. I understand that Champion Data uses statistics gathered over two seasons and Yarran had a good year in 2014 and an above ranking for that season is fair enough. His form last season stank and must have dragged his ranking down to below average.
If Yarran's above average ranking is legitimate, most of our list would have to be average or above average.
Statistical bias must be looked at here.
We have data for 2014, where Yarran would have rated either above average or higher.
In 2015, he actually didnt play many games which might further skew the actual rating.
Statistical analysis, always need to be measured relative to something else for them to actually have any relevance which this champion data rating seems to ignore.