Carlton Supporters Club

All set for the post game pandemonium. Hopefully it will be us who are partying. :)

I hope and pray

It could have been worse but 7 goals from Richmond is shabby enough.
There's not much light at the end of the tunnel, Silvagni and Weitering will make the grade and Plowman and Marchbank look comfortable down back but we need a couple of quick forwards and hard midfielders.
It'll be another long season.

We can't afford to carry slow, unskilled hackers any more, they are just boat anchors and get exposed.  We all know who they are.

We can't afford to carry slow, unskilled hackers any more, they are just boat anchors and get exposed.  We all know who they are.

Agree Prof.

I wasn't too disappointed - but my expectations weren't high.

Some of the young new guys look good - there's plenty of talent there - need to bulk some of the boys up but they had a crack and kept going with it which you can't be disappointed with.

Thought Charlie curnow was... slow and soft for someone his size - that was my only real disappointment.

The forward line was too easy to cast aside, need some Bulk.

Thought Weiters and Marchbank Plow and Murph were the real highlights for me

Bolton failed as a coach.

the kids went A ok, curnow aside.

if you let their best run free you are forked....

too many soft turnovers cost the match.

Richmond are crap......thats what makes losing to them worse....one man team.
Martin...scares some of our blokes including the bigger blokes, no one wants to tangle with him much less tackle or contest with him....we need to recruit some tougher bigger players to give our youngsters confidence..

Pro's...Weitering, Marchbank, Pickett were all ok....SPS started well and showed he has some skills.....MacReadie shows some courage which I like...Smedts was handy at times..
Cons..plenty but I'm sure others will cover them ..
Going to be a long year and wins will be scarce but need to stick fat with our kids and get them some help at the trade period..

We can't afford to carry slow, unskilled hackers any more, they are just boat anchors and get exposed.  We all know who they are.

Not a lot of credibility if you thought that Murphy and Gibbs 'stunk it up'!

We're playing a new offensive game. Struggled with it especially in the first half, and we forgot that you still have to apply defensive pressure. Got it together in the 3rd qtr more. We have a fair number of players who are certainly good individually but as a functional unit we're still quite a bit off. If we're are going to be a good offensive side we must move the ball quickly to create one-on-one's. If we do the likes of Weitering, SOJ, even Levi and the smalls will do the job. We have good forward but the players up the ground make them look bad.

We don't need to play Thomas and White. Kreuzer shown to be a much better player when he owns the first ruck role. Casboult's rucking has improved out of sight, just wish he had done more in the first half around the ground as he really stunk it up. 2nd half alot better but liked his ruckwork. He had his confidence shot last year. Marchbank a gun, Weitering a gun, SOJ good, will be a gun. Petrvski-Seton looks a player, just got tired, as does Macreadie. Pickett could be exciting.

One less tall in defence, more runners.

Final margin is 'acceptable'. However, look a little deeper and we got absolutely flogged.
Scoring shots - 19 to 32.

Our straight kicking (for a change) flattered us a bit.

Plenty of encouraging signs from the kids, but also reminders that they are still kids.

SPS - Brilliant early, vanished after half time.
Pickett - Showed signs of brilliance, missing 95% of the time.
Curnowfides - One of his worst games in his short career.

Plowman/Marchbank looked very good down back...but still made some silly errors.

It will be and up and down season so straight yourself in.

The Tiggers looked ready to begin the season, we didn't, in fact we looked confused and underdone.

Our number 1's were good tonight. Especially pleased with Kreuzer's game. Just a workhorse. Anyway, positives were a couple of the kids. Macredie not a bad first  up. At least they show a bit of toe, have a bit of courage.
Negatives were our horrific turnovers. Try a few more kids and get rid of guys like Armfield and Thomas.

It will be and up and down season so straight yourself in.

You're right, we might need a straight jacket..lol.

The Tiggers looked ready to begin the season, we didn't, in fact we looked confused and underdone.

Yes, they were 40pts up before we began to find our feet.

The Tiggers looked ready to begin the season, we didn't, in fact we looked confused and underdone.

Martin aside they are not that great IMO....dont have them in the eight.....they did look fitter and looked to have some bigger bodies, Cripps and Charlie C looked very underdone...

Had a bad feeling as soon as I saw Weits up forward. They probably got half a dozen goals from our lack of composure in front of goals but I realize it's a 'rob Peter to pay Paul' situation as he ended up being out leading goal scorer despite being injured the first time he went near the ball.

Expect a bottom 4 finish ... and Carlton won't be far behind ????

Pretty ordinary game, and hard to see Richmond making finals. Our best were kruezer who was outstanding, Murphy played four quarters, docherty did OK later in the game, plowman looked good. Marxhbank is a fine mark, but his decision making will need to improve.

Cripps popping up in number 11 confused for a moment: high up in the Olympic stand its hard to make out. He is underdone and hopefully is OK after taking a couple of knocks.

Sadly we looked as disorganized as ever through the middle and across half forward. We don't have any obvious answers and playing weitering at chf is not sustainable for long. He is only 19!

Still, we kicked mostly straight which is nice. Armfields goal was as flukey as they get.

And pretending to be neutral, martin put on a clinic at times. Terrific game.

On to next week...

You're right, we might need a straight jacket..lol.

Was talking about kicking straight... :-[

STRAP yourself in.

Had a bad feeling as soon as I saw Weits up forward. They probably got half a dozen goals from our lack of composure in front of goals but I realize it's a 'rob Peter to pay Paul' situation as he ended up being out leading goal scorer despite being injured the first time he went near the ball.

Expect a bottom 4 finish ... and Carlton won't be far behind ????

That's probably true, but I don't want our best player banged up before he's out of nappies, just to make our losses look competitive.

Bolts said he was excited before the game.

Game turned out like a bad date
6 players that shouldn't be playing AFL seniors.
marchbank look good, see how the bank goes in april
mccredrie will improve and has some go in him as does pickett & sps
 E curnow gets worse every year, brother is a concern.

Best game out of kruzer for a while.

Long season ahead

Dunno, I was really disappointed with Docherty, looked fumbly, ran into trouble and kicked poorly.  His possessions had no hurt factor.  The smaller tiger forwards really hurt us, guys he was minding.  He seems to be lacking touch and confidence.

Gibbs and Murphy had "almost" games, they almost laid tackles, they almost intercepted, they almost retarded the player enough... but didn't.  Ultimately they didn't put any effective pressure on their mids or win enough clearances to stem the tide.   Thus, I thought they were essentially ineffective, especially in the first half when the game was on the line. Their ball use by hand was not good and sold guys into trouble.  Cripps also looked to be lacking touch, very badly.

Still can't understand why Martin ran around unfettered all night, surely a senior player like Gibbs would see what was happening and attempt to intervene?

Weitering is bolts amex credit card
he will use it to pay the interest on debt either side of the ground

Fun fact to (potentially) cheer people up.

Damian Hardwick is the ONLY PERSON IN VFL/AFL HISTORY to have coached 150+ games and NOT won a final.  >:D

Was talking about kicking straight... :-[

STRAP yourself in.

I'm still thinking we might need the straight jacket as i'm sure they'll drive us crazy...lol.

Fun fact to (potentially) cheer people up.

Damian Hardwick is the ONLY PERSON IN VFL/AFL HISTORY to have coached 150+ games and NOT won a final.  >:D

I knew that already. But thanks for posting.

Bolts said he was excited before the game.

Game turned out like a bad date
6 players that shouldn't be playing AFL seniors.
marchbank look good, see how the bank goes in april
mccredrie will improve and has some go in him as does pickett & sps
 E curnow gets worse every year, brother is a concern.

Best game out of kruzer for a while.

Long season ahead

Always go well when he completely owns the no.1 ruck role. Get touches around the ground and hits the scoreboard. When he shares he struggles.

I knew that already. But thanks for posting.

Nothing like a reminder of something like that though..lol.

Dunno, I was really disappointed with Docherty, looked fumbly, ran into trouble and kicked poorly.  His possessions had no hurt factor.  The smaller tiger forwards really hurt us, guys he was minding.  He seems to be lacking touch and confidence.

Gibbs and Murphy had "almost" games, they almost laid tackles, they almost intercepted, they almost retarded the player enough... but didn't.  Ultimately they didn't put any effective pressure on their mids or win enough clearances to stem the tide.   Thus, I thought they were essentially ineffective, especially in the first half when the game was on the line. Their ball use by hand was not good and sold guys into trouble.  Cripps also looked to be lacking touch, very badly.

Still can't understand why Martin ran around unfettered all night, surely a senior player like Gibbs would see what was happening and attempt to intervene?

Docherty's tackle on Martin was symptomatic of his night IMO....lacked intent, he looked like he wanted soem easy kicks rather than a hard night...thought the Tiger small forwards killed us all night and both Docherty and Simpson need to defend better...
Martin probably had several players on him but none wanted to upset or play close to Dusty...we are very soft physically and dont have any players who can return fire, even Casboult looked apprehensive of Martin.
Its the same every season, we need to get a couple of nasty players who can serve some physical stuff back..
Murphy and Gibbs went ok but didnt impact..

Docherty's tackle on Martin was symptomatic of his night IMO....lacked intent, he looked like he wanted soem easy kicks rather than a hard night...thought the Tiger small forwards killed us all night and both Docherty and Simpson need to defend better...
Martin probably had several players on him but none wanted to upset or play close to Dusty...we are very soft physically and dont have any players who can return fire, even Casboult looked apprehensive of Martin.
Its the same every season, we need to get a couple of nasty players who can serve some physical stuff back..
Murphy and Gibbs went ok but didnt impact..

Someone should grab that arm during a fend off and rip it out of his socket.

Big fail by Bolton tonight.
Too many free players all over the ground,  we were ball watching.
WTF with Martin roaming free, why not put Ed on him he was playing crap anyway.
Where is the game plan?
We still look like a team with a suburban team game plan. No Structure.
WTF is it with these zone coaches,, everybody is a utility cause t hey play all over the ground.  BB should take control and be the only giving orders.
Stoppages were extremely bad.
Long season.

Pretty ordinary game, and hard to see Richmond making finals. Our best were kruezer who was outstanding, Murphy played four quarters, docherty did OK later in the game, plowman looked good. Marxhbank is a fine mark, but his decision making will need to improve.

And pretending to be neutral, martin put on a clinic at times. Terrific game.

That's a good summing up I reckon.
We had 4 or so very good players, another 4 or so good players, half a dozen so so players and the rest did pretty much squat.
I thought that Rowe, Gibbs and Silvagni played pretty well, the more I see of Silvagni the more I can see a 200 game player.
Petrevski-Seton looks likely, Pickett did some good things, Thomas was better than some here rated him IMO but still only in the so so bracket.
On Daisy it's hard to see where he fits nowadays, he's lost the pace that made him such a dangerous run and carry player and it's hard to see a natural spot for him, maybe as a permanent forward but Bolton seems to want to use him as a workhorse filling holes.

Bolton was outcoached. They stopped Simpson and Docherty's rebound and exposed their poor defensive side and that was all she wrote.

Am I the only one who can't understand why someone doesn't stand Dusty and make life a little difficult for him?? He had it all on his own terms and was by himself with zero pressure. In the last qtr there is a ball up 25m out, and they leave Macreadie to pick up Martin - who wins the stoppage and kicks a goal. Leaving an 18yo on debut to stand one of the best players in the league who is having a night out is inexcusable by the senior players. Gibbs, Armfield or Cripps needed to step up IMO.

I am trying to stay positive, but the numbers weren't great. Our tackle pressure and work rate weren't up to standard, and given the huge turnovers we give up we are going to get smashed most weeks. We kicked straight, but only had 20 shots on goal which is what we averaged in the back half of last year - and we know with that sort of number we will only wine 2-4 games in a year.

Our defence and midfield work rate was terrible - they had spare men everywhere and had 60 i50's and 32 shots on goal. That's 25% worse than last year.

Armfield, White & Casboult delivered exactly what their careers suggested they would - not much. Thomas, Docherty and E. Curnow, Smedts & Cripps were all below average. That's 8 senior players below par.

C. Curnow was a worry. Pickett was virtually unsighted. SPS looked great but underdone. Macreadie showed glimpses but not sure he is ready yet.

Simon White was on Dusty for most of the first half. Seriously how did we think that was going to go?

well I'm disappointed with our defensive pressure around the ground, game was lost there...

the positves

Murphy - best game in along time from him, defensive skills were poor though
Marchbank - ripper pickup, strong, reads the play well, decision making will improve, his first big game with 70k watching
Silvangi - has put on some muscle and is smart
Kreuzer - like Murphy's best game in ages, took marks up fwd, and won more clearances that cripps
SPS - couldn't ask for more from a 1st gamer
plowman - steady as a rock
weits - 3 goals and totally beat up, what a champ he's going to be

the negatives
C Carlow - a shocker, slow, out of position and applied little fwd pressure
armfield - hopeless, a liability
pickett - no impact
Crisps - very slow and kicking was woeful
doc - worst game I've seen him play, was exposed by Richmond's small fwds

in all to let Richmond score such a big score with the fwd line is a massive indictment on the club. let's hope we where clearing the cobwebs out.

Bolton was outcoached. They stopped Simpson and Docherty's rebound and exposed their poor defensive side and that was all she wrote.

great summary totally agree ????

Bolton was outcoached. They stopped Simpson and Docherty's rebound and exposed their poor defensive side and that was all she wrote.

Agree.

Very early to be suggesting such things but I'll have a dig. Should we be looking for another 'mentor' for BB at year's end? I really have concerns about Craig. There are obviously so many things that BB does well, but his match day coaching does require 'education.'

Charlie Curnow shocker......is that the 'just turned 20' Charlie Curnow' who notched up Game 7 tonight???

'Give the kids game time!'  'Play the kids!'  'Let the kids develop and play them in front of the oldies!'

We are a harsh lot! 

It should be 'Charlie, you're guaranteed 6 games, so go out and give it your best shot. You won't be BOG every week but have a crack!'

Charlie Curnow shocker......is that the 'just turned 20' Charlie Curnow' who notched up Game 7 tonight???

'Give the kids game time!'  'Play the kids!'  'Let the kids develop and play them in front of the oldies!'

We are a harsh lot! 

It should be 'Charlie, you're guaranteed 6 games, so go out and give it your best shot. You won't be BOG every week but have a crack!'

 I guess I've got such high expectations for the lad!  8)

Any chance our tall defenders could take some intercept marks rather than trying to win the golden fist award?

Charlie Curnow shocker......is that the 'just turned 20' Charlie Curnow' who notched up Game 7 tonight???

'Give the kids game time!'  'Play the kids!'  'Let the kids develop and play them in front of the oldies!'

We are a harsh lot! 

It should be 'Charlie, you're guaranteed 6 games, so go out and give it your best shot. You won't be BOG every week but have a crack!'

Thank you Townsend. Thought the same thing.

Any chance our tall defenders could take some intercept marks rather than trying to win the golden fist award?

Enter Sam Rowe standing 15m clear of anyone else and he punches down the throat of an opposition player!!

We can't afford to carry slow, unskilled hackers any more, they are just boat anchors and get exposed.  We all know who they are.

I know it wasn't anyone 22 and under that's for sure

Kids were great. Can handle their mistakes. They are usually less costly than some.

Who said Daisy was OK? My god.

Rowe
White
Daisy
Curnow
Levi

All deplorable.

Kids were great. Can handle their mistakes. They are usually less costly than some.

Who said Daisy was OK? My god.

Rowe
White
Daisy
Curnow
Levi

All deplorable.

That's fine, but who do you replace them with??

Kids were great. Can handle their mistakes. They are usually less costly than some.

Who said Daisy was OK? My god.

Rowe
White
Daisy
Curnow
Levi

All deplorable.

x2. Five Senior passengers like that isn't going to do much to help the kids. Gee we let them kick a few soft goals.

Someone on FB was in the rooms after the game and reckons cripps arm looks swollen and worried it broken.

He was hit hard by Martin in the last quarter and I had perfect view and lay motionless for a good 15 sec I was sure he did a serious injury but then got up and seemed to shake it off and finished on the bench.

Hopefully report is BS but wouldn't be surprised to hear he is injured. Looked in a lot of pain at the time.

Charlie Curnow shocker......is that the 'just turned 20' Charlie Curnow' who notched up Game 7 tonight???

'Give the kids game time!'  'Play the kids!'  'Let the kids develop and play them in front of the oldies!'

We are a harsh lot! 

It should be 'Charlie, you're guaranteed 6 games, so go out and give it your best shot. You won't be BOG every week but have a crack!'

Yep, that's exactly my take as well. Same goes for most of the kids - give them time. The older players are supporting cast until the talent comes on. Thomas is running his contract out before going into a coaching role somewhere. Pickett played his first game along with SPS and Macreadie - that's AFL football NOT just for Carlton.

The slack we cut Jack last year needs to apply evenly across the list.

Thought Marchbank showed plenty - made some silly errors but will be better for the run. Charlie C is learning about having a run through the middle not just up forward in year two. Weiters was wonderful given the service and pressure.

Someone on FB was in the rooms after the game and reckons cripps arm looks swollen and worried it broken.

He was hit hard by Martin in the last quarter and I had perfect view and lay motionless for a good 15 sec I was sure he did a serious injury but then got up and seemed to shake it off and finished on the bench.

Hopefully report is BS but wouldn't be surprised to hear he is injured. Looked in a lot of pain at the time.

Yep
It did look like he'd hurt himself badly but a minute or two later he made a tackle that kind of eased my fears.
Still if it does turn out to be a break it's the type of commitment we've come to expect from him.

Enter Sam Rowe standing 15m clear of anyone else and he punches down the throat of an opposition player!!

It's called 'lack of composure' - there was plenty of that across the ground tonight.

Yep, that's exactly my take as well. Same goes for most of the kids - give them time. The older players are supporting cast until the talent comes on. Thomas is running his contract out before going into a coaching role somewhere. Pickett played his first game along with SPS and Macreadie - that's AFL football NOT just for Carlton.

The slack we cut Jack last year needs to apply evenly across the list.

Thought Marchbank showed plenty - made some silly errors but will be better for the run. Charlie C is learning about having a run through the middle not just up forward in year two. Weiters was wonderful given the service and pressure.

Yep
First game together under real match pressure for a lot of our side.
Once that understanding develops there is potential to improve rapidly as a team.
With greater support and awareness of strengths and limitations we'll see a reduction in some of those skill errors, poor decisions and turnovers.

That's fine, but who do you replace them with??

Serious. We should just let them run around stuffing up. I forgot Army.

Already replaced Rowe with Mcreadie
Thomas- Cunningham
Levi - McKay
Curnow - Fisher/Polson
White - Jaksch, Lamb, Williamson

Kids did not disgrace themselves at all. And if anything kept up with the modern style of footy.

Very pleased.

Two crap teams  that should not figure in the finals.

Serious. We should just let them run around stuffing up. I forgot Army.

Already replaced Rowe with Mcreadie
Thomas- Cunningham
Levi - McKay
Curnow - Fisher/Polson
White - Jaksch, Lamb, Williamson

Kids did not disgrace themselves at all. And if anything kept up with the modern style of footy.

Very pleased.

You can add Smedts to that group...wasnt bad but wont impact much playing very safe football.....if you could find a player who can tackle that would be handy....that would give us two..Wright being the other.
Was it Martins haircut that scared our players or the thought of his dads friends coming to get our players if we dared touch him.....

My biggest concern for the night was Cripps.

He was playing like a millionaire at times tonight and when he got hurt with Martin it's because he was undisciplined and attempted to hit Dusty like it would have made a difference and frankly went in limply.

End result he hurt himself.   Looked like a shoulder.

I was 12 years old when I was told that you get hurt when you pull out and don't go hard enough and that's what that looked like and Martin didn't hit cripps,  Cripps hit Martin.  Martin just stood up and took it and motored right through.

People here expect too much.  Martin has always been a powerful player with questions on his workrate and conditioning, but he's turned the corner and will realise his potential this season.

Can't agree with playing the kids.   We'll get thumped every week and become the new Melbourne.  Better for the kids to show promise and our senior blokes to stink whilst they learn.

My biggest concern for the night was Cripps.

He was playing like a millionaire at times tonight and when he got hurt with Martin it's because he was undisciplined and attempted to hit Dusty like it would have made a difference and frankly went in limply.

End result he hurt himself.   Looked like a shoulder.

I was 12 years old when I was told that you get hurt when you pull out and don't go hard enough and that's what that looked like and Martin didn't hit cripps,  Cripps hit Martin.  Martin just stood up and took it and motored right through.

People here expect too much.  Martin has always been a powerful player with questions on his workrate and conditioning, but he's turned the corner and will realise his potential this season.

Can't agree with playing the kids.   We'll get thumped every week and become the new Melbourne.  Better for the kids to show promise and our senior blokes to stink whilst they learn.

Martin is powerful but our players were adverse to tackling or going near him...its wasnt a good look when most of your team are apprehensive of one player.....it was embarrassing and only
enhances our reputation as one of the softest teams in the comp...I can take mistakes that are made with effort or Marchbank missing targets etc  but you have to see effort and as far as Martin goes most of our blokes were not interested in making the effort to engage him in battle....

Thank you Townsend. Thought the same thing.

Not to mention those howling about Bolton being out coached. Maybe, just maybe he held his nerve and is teaching through application.

He could easily have gone defensive and didn't.

Positives
Sammo soaked up a mountain of pressure and looked good before a bit of a fade.
Pickett flashes of great. Can't wait till he builds up his tank.
McCreadie was good, reads it well. Some muscle and he'll hold his own.
Smedts was good in patches. Looked like he moved well. Expect his improvement to increase quickly.
Marchbank and Weiters  ????????
Crippa got through unscathed. Will be better for the run.
Sam Rowe and Kruez were solid. Looked to give 100%
Daisy kicked longer and offered more in general. Maybe that ankle's better.
Plowman was solid. He'll continue to improve.

As others noted, (quite) a few of our seniors didn't perform as we hoped. Obviously we can't expect to win under those conditions.

In all, the youngsters had a great hit out. Their learning now begins.

Positives
Sammo soaked up a mountain of pressure and looked good before a bit of a fade.
Pickett flashes of great. Can't wait till he builds up his tank.
McCreadie was good, reads it well. Some muscle and he'll hold his own.
Smedts was good in patches. Looked like he moved well. Expect his improvement to increase quickly.
Marchbank and Weiters  ????????
Crippa got through unscathed. Will be better for the run.
Sam Rowe and Kruez were solid. Looked to give 100%
Daisy kicked longer and offered more in general. Maybe that ankle's better.
Plowman was solid. He'll continue to improve.

As others noted, (quite) a few of our seniors didn't perform as we hoped. Obviously we can't expect to win under those conditions.

In all, the youngsters had a great hit out. Their learning now begins.

Didn't think the captain was too shabby??

Pickett isn't going to get huge numbers to begin with.  But he showed us what he can.  His tackling pressure for one was better than most of the senior players.

I know there's questions on Cunningham, based on the VFL thread, but we are wasting our time playing him in the Magoos.  He's a second year player so needs to get AFL exposure.

If I was being crazy bold I would drop:

Thomas for Cunningham,
Levi for Harry,
Army for Fisher
White for SOSOS's cousin

And would certainly not play Lamb next week.

We would probably lose by 15 goals but I sooo want to be rid of the passengers.

E. Curnow only gets a game because he has heart.  But he needs to be told that he has limitations.

Rowe gets a game because... there's no one else.  JGM ain't exactly coming on and Jaksch would be a backward step.

Smedts was fine.  He didn't Kerridge the ball for one and did some neat things by hand.

Did he get enough of the ball, no. But he showed reasonable composure in traffic and is only just getting back into the swing of AFL.

Hmmmm....that went well.

My god.....

Yep
It did look like he'd hurt himself badly but a minute or two later he made a tackle that kind of eased my fears.
Still if it does turn out to be a break it's the type of commitment we've come to expect from him.

We can't take a trick  ::)

Things I learnt tonight:

- We picked up a 10year player in Caleb Marchbank
- GWS have directly and indirectly gifted us a very promising backline (Marchbank, Plowman and Macreadie)
- Once SPS is match fit he's going to light up our games
- Weitering will rarely be sighted in defence this year, and that's ok
- Our forward line actually shows promise (pity the delivery into it is scarce)
- Thomas won't hit his quota for a new contract
- Jack is a chip off the old block. Knows how to position himself and will only get better
- This is going to be a long season, full of mistakes, but the foundation for the future is really starting to take shape
- Next draft we need to stock up on as many A Grade midfielders as we can get our hands on

Hmmmm....that went well.

My god.....

Sad when you know it's season over at half time of round 1.

We can't afford to carry slow, unskilled hackers any more, they are just boat anchors and get exposed.  We all know who they are.

Nail on the head.
This is the most disappointing thing about the whole way we run our club presently. We play players who the club presume will keep things respectable, lose honorably and it makes us a joke as a football club.

This was exactly as expected and the club should already put a line in the sand and play these players who we KNOW are not good enough only when covering injuries.

It is one game, but I suspect we are further away from a flag now than we were 12 months ago.

Sad when you know it's season over at half time of round 1.

Didn't want to be the ultimate buzz kill pre-game, but this result was every bit to be expected......as it will be every single week this year.

That's pretty much the best team we can put on the park this year (perhaps 2 changes at most) and we were laughably inept for large chunks of the game.

There were sprigs of hope here and there, but we never once looked like winning and the usual suspects a lot of us were worried about pre-game, largely stunk it up.

Just like a page that has been copied too many times, and the final copy is just a blurred version of the original, I can kind of see where Bolts is coming from. I can kind of see the Hawthorn influence, I can see just like them, he tried keeping a reasonably settled defense, whilst throwing the forwards and mids all over the park to try and mix things up, and also to try and upset the opposition's rhythm. But I think he upset our rhythm more than the Tiges. Whereas the Hawks look precise, deliberate and purposeful when they do it, we looked random and confused, just doing it because they do it, and because that's what Bolton knows.

Very early days, but it comes back to what Jim said earlier - some very handy individual performances, but the glue is missing.

Just like a page that has been copied too many times, and the final copy is just a blurred version of the original, I can kind of see where Bolts is coming from. I can kind of see the Hawthorn influence, I can see just like them, he tried keeping a reasonably settled defense, whilst throwing the forwards and mids all over the park to try and mix things up, and also to try and upset the opposition's rhythm. But I think he upset our rhythm more than the Tiges. Whereas the Hawks look precise, deliberate and purposeful when they do it, we looked random and confused, just doing it because they do it, and because that's what Bolton knows.

Very early days, but it comes back to what Jim said earlier - some very handy individual performances, but the glue is missing.

All very close to the truth PaulP, thou things the glue doesn't stick to all surfaces either

All very close to the truth PaulP, thou things the glue doesn't stick to all surfaces either

Fair enough Rob.

If my memory is right, 6 of our players have played less than 10 games, and on top of that we had 3 debutantes. That's half the on field 18. 

Don't know what people expected on the back of JLT series.

Last season we were hard to score against, it appears that this season we are not.

11 goals from defensive half turn overs, never going to get close with that.

Senior players handballing to the feet running players, but that being said Bulldogs have modelled their game on that but rely on players having the basic skill to pick up the ball on the half volley.

Richmond can take very little from this game, a backline of babies and a forward line lead by two second seaon players with Weitering showing up the best defender on a few occasions.

And can i just say, that Rance is a dead set, dirty a#hole.

A few things about the game watching it live:

Kreuzer is tireless under rated workhorse with a huge heart. The big guy gave his all 'again'. Really hope we show faith with him and offer him a 2 year contract extension early. Would kill me to watch him play elsewhere. And he will get picked up this time if we let his contract lapse. Would have lost by another 5 goals if he didn't play.

Martin is a true bull. Poor coaching to allow a player with such devastating power to run it alone all night. Made no sense to me. He cant fend off as easily, if the player in on his hammer wearing him like a second skin. He will fend off any mid going around if you give him space and then try and run at him - he needs distance to fend well. Don't give him distance FFS.

Cripps could well have a arm/shoulder injury and miss a month or more of footy. Hope I'm wrong. Showed he has no preseason - will come good.

Rowe cops a lot of criticism but he did another 'honest' job. Tries his guts out and while not super talented plays a position where his main priority is to negate and defend the oppositions best forward and prevent them kicking a bag. He doesn't need to be a playmaker. Does what he is paid to do very well most weeks and again thought he won his position..

Marchbank reads the play amazingly well considering he is a kid. Has guts to hit a target under pressure. Big call but plays like a young Rance. Liked plowmans game.

Weiters mark over 2 tiges in the 3rd quarter was Carey like. What a presence he is and uses the ball better then our mids going into the 50.

Murphy pushed hard all night and was one of our best IMO. Player like he cared.

Not going to bother with Gibbs. Cant stand him so I wont give a balanced opinion.

Thought SPS intent was great. Good first up game considering an interpreted pre season.

Desperate for some more quality ball users.

Armfield gave us nothing. Could it have hurt to have him run with Martin. Has the speed and tackles well. Really poor coaching IMO.   

Defence has not looked as fluent as it did last year. Moved the ball from a kick in so well early last year. Going the long bomb last night indicates a lack of confidence. Hope we can settle down back.

Disappointed a little as if we respected Martin and had a bit of luck with the 50/50 calls could have been a much closer game.

Tiges are not a serious contender this year.

Nice summary Shawny.

go back 2 or 3 seasons and we were stinking up the competition.

ask yourself how much promising youth we had on the list back then.  wasn't a lot under 22.  most of our draft picks from then and just prior are gone.

now ask yourself if we have more promising youth on the list.  we still have some of the same 'senior' players stinking the joint up, but i personally have more confidence in the youth we have now.

really, when you have a club that is in need of a rebuild, then that's what matters.

i feel ok about last night's game.  saw some good things, and saw some same old same old.

i do think we'll get better as the season progresses though.  clearly still trying to get some cohesion and need to tidy up the skills quite a lot. 

p.s. i thought Murphy & Special K played good games.  Marchbank looked good but needs to tidy up disposal a bit - perhaps just needs to better understand his limitations by foot and eliminate a couple of shanks and suddenly his disposal will look good.  he can read the play and take a mark though.

I know we have some guys who need to be backup only, no need to name them, but the kids need to prove to the match committee they deserve a spot in the seniors.  there will be reasons we don't know about why some of them did not play last night.

it may well be a long year.  hoping for a few surprise wins along the way.  then we need to draft midfielders. lots of them...

i still think the plan was probably to -

draft talented tall forwards first (which we did).  they take the longest to bring up to speed. they will be ready in a year or 2.

settle on a quality back 6.  i think we're well on the way.

invest heavily in midfielders last draft and the next draft.  they take a little less time to develop than talls. 

have the youth develop in a way that they all start coming good at roughly the same time.  still need older harder body's on the park, taking hits and in some cases just being there filling space while the younger guys develop.

this i think is what Bolton refers to as the plan for a sustained run at it. 

the way our season is panning out we're going to have access to more quality mids at the next draft.  that's what we need, and there's very few short cuts.  i hope Gibbs either gets us more picks via trade, or is around in 2 or 3 seasons when the youth start to come good.  i think he's the type of player that can play at his current level for quite a few years.

anyway - that's my 2 cents worth.  hang in there guys.

Daisy Thomas.....please, stop taking the p!ss you friggin' useless list clogger >:D

Nailed it tragic, well said mate.

Some of the commentary here is ridiculous, apparently we are further from a premiership after last night. We are blooding young kids, ALL who showed something last night (inc curnow) and when was the last time we could say that?

Everyone expected we couldn't find goals, but looked the most coherent heading towards goal for several years. Unexpectedly it was our backs that crapped themselves and coughed up at least 5-6.

The difference with this crop of youngsters is they take the game on and will no doubt learn from the experience.

Like I said elsewhere, Bolton could easily have move weitering back, and played loose men back but how does that help in our development? Playing players in their positions, sprinkled with some experience is the best way for them to learn their role, their limitations and capabilities.

So whilst it was a disappointing loss, there was enough in it for me to walk away feeling content that we are on the right track. Much patience will be required.

Sad when you know it's season over at half time of round 1.

People want the kids played, we have a list full of them, we better get used to seeing this sort of result.

We had virtually zero physical presence out there last night, when a midget like Murphy is injuring himself trying to make a statement you know you're in trouble. Too much heavy work needed from Kreuzer and Cripps, they are on their lonesome out there.

Rowe played OK, we need to find ways to get him involved in more physical play.

Casboult took some nice marks, but a bloke his size has zero physical presence except when a goose runs into him!

Shockers from C.Curnow, E.Curnow, White, Macreadie, Smedts and Pickett.

I just thought we would be better this year but it looks like we're going backwards and that the first part of last year really was Bolton's honeymoon period and 2017 will look more like the 2nd half.

The problem I'm seeing here is that some folk are looking at last nights game and thinking....
"That's it! That's as good as it gets for 2017. That's just about our best possible side."

but....
Inexperienced players will develop as the season progresses.
There will be a development in terms of combining as a team. That was the first game together for many under match pressure conditions.

On all lines (forward, mid, back) players will start to work out each others limitations and strengths and play to them.

Our starting 22 last night wont be our starting 22 at the end of the year.

Bolton will learn a lot too.

Actually on reflection, there were aspects of last night that suggested that we finally have the framework/skeleton of a decent side with the forward line looking much better...and a few youngsters showing a bit back.
Now to put some flesh on i!

We were far more competitive in the back half that the W-L tells you. Granted the Essendon game was a disaster.

I just thought we would be better this year but it looks like we're going backwards and that the first part of last year really was Bolton's honeymoon period and 2017 will look more like the 2nd half.

We increased the number of kids out there, we looked small and weedy compared to Nthmond and they aren't a big side by any stretch of the imagination.

Neither team I saw last night will have any significant impact on the top eight sides, they'll be treated with disdain.

Don't be surprised to find out we have injuries to three or four key players out of last night. Cripps, Murphy, Kreuzer and Weitering all managed to hurt themselves. I reckon Murphy has hurt his back, he might have to carry that injury for the rest of the season.

Dusty aside, the Tigers are woeful.

Pity we didn't really come to play....our leaders let us down, again.

Not acceptable to lose like that to an average AFL team like Richmond with hacks in it like White, Armfield Thomas, etc al. Ed Curnow is a tagger and that's it. He MUST ONLY go to the best onballer each week and annoy the heck outta em!

I can handle losing with kids - we had some - which was great, but please BB play Cuningham, McKay, Fisher, et al. Rotate them if need be.

Gee we have some spuds. I do not want to replace spuds with spuds (eg. Thomas for Kerridge).

Some positiev signs, but I am sure all of our bloeks are better for the run and getting the cob webs out of the sytem, and getting some hometruths,. We'll see how they reposnd now!

Weitering great! He's a CHF see...... :P 8)

And how many poor, poor, poor cheap turnover did we deliver on a platter to the Tigers - 12, 15, 20?

That's not (in general) a youth thing. That's just poor footy.

Bolton's coaching last night - 1 out of 10. Simply didn't see anything tried after Plan A proved to be an abject disaster.

Conceding 83 points in a half to a team like Richmond. Shocking, embarrassing, laughable.

And how many poor, poor, poor cheap turnover did we deliver on a platter to the Tigers - 12, 15, 20?

That's not (in general) a youth thing. That's just poor footy.

Bolton's coaching last night - 1 out of 10. Simply didn't see anything tried after Plan A proved to be an abject disaster.

Conceding 83 points in a half to a team like Richmond. Shocking, embarrassing, laughable.

So what would u have done?

Same story of skill errors and turnovers. We were blown out of the water in Q1 and that's pretty much how it stayed. Good to see the young guys get their chance and some promising signs there. Pretty much as expected as one small step of a long and painful rebuild. Next week will be a bigger challenge.

Interesting that both the seniors and NBs lost their respective games early/slow starts.

Re Daisy I find myself sitting on the fence - and I don't like splinters in the @rse. I, wrongly, expect him to give us what he gave Rottingwood and when you're on serious loot that expectation is justified. But, the bottom-line is that he aint the player he was. That ankle is problematic. He can't jump and he's lost a yard.

So, time to see him in the same vein as Palmer, Kerridge and Smedts ability wise. His upside is no doubt his leadership and experience and that is valuable... to a point. I really hope he improves as the season progresses. But if his on-field contribution falls short, no 2018.

The blooding of the young kids is all good and well, in fact it is actually perfect.

The thing is that we still have too many players getting games that have NO FUTURE at our club and to me that has to stop (and the whole rant about trading etc).

Play just kids, lose to Richmond by 65 instead of 43, both are embarrassing, but one gives more games to kids to give them a chance to prove themselves.

All of my anger about last night isn't the result or Bolton or anything, it is at our clubs inability to build a list.

Actually on reflection, there were aspects of last night that suggested that we finally have the framework/skeleton of a decent side with the forward line looking much better...and a few youngsters showing a bit back.

The forward line would be better still minus Casboult, he's a dinosaur from the Brian Taylor days.
Immobile, useless below his knees, poor disposal and ball sense and can only run in straight lines, it's time we abandoned the Levi experiment and stuck with Weitering, Slivagni and McKay if he shapes up.
Small forwards are another matter and a bigger problem for us.
Wright goes OK, just OK, and we all know what Armfield is capable of and it isn't anything flash, likewise Lamb and Sumner.
Boekhorst - meh, Buckley?
Ciaran Byrne should improve our run out of the back half which last night was down to Simpson and Docherty, and Phillips fit would relieve us of the handicap of playing Casboult, but small forwards and another couple of good to very good midfielders are what we desperately need.

Also from a tactical point, what should Carlton do?
They should make themselves hard to beat.

Forget the scoring for a moment, forget quick breaks and everyone running forward of the play, concentrate on getting into position and shutting down.

It is ugly and it makes us a mongrel crap team to watch, but it also teaches a hell of a lot of discipline and you don't need talent to be disciplined, you need commitment to the task.

The equivalent is my team in soccer, West Brom, they play ugly, they play without real fullbacks in the traditional sense (well at least without a RB) and they don't sprint forward on breaks, they maintain their positions and they are bloody hard in the tackle. It is ugly, it pisses me off, but clubs hate playing against it and it is effective.

If the club played 75% of the game shutting down their opponent, went back to the early Clarko days of crap football and shutting teams down with anti-social football, I think it would go a long way towards setting this group up.

The blooding of the young kids is all good and well, in fact it is actually perfect.

The thing is that we still have too many players getting games that have NO FUTURE at our club and to me that has to stop (and the whole rant about trading etc).

Play just kids, lose to Richmond by 65 instead of 43, both are embarrassing, but one gives more games to kids to give them a chance to prove themselves.

All of my anger about last night isn't the result or Bolton or anything, it is at our clubs inability to build a list.

Yep, and play David Cuningham and have him at times follow Martin, Prestia, etc around - let him battle with them.

Thought Smedts gave us a something. Exceeded my expectations am deathly would be good to see him get an extended run.

A good least he can pick up the ball in one go, Half volley as well, and keeps his feet well in the contest.

People have very little patience. How good that put best player slast night were 22 and under and played less than 50 games. The skipper and kruezer aside.

Murphy was phenomenal in the third in gettingnis back into it.

Thought Smedts gave us a something. Exceeded my expectations am deathly would be good to see him get an extended run.

A good least he can pick up the ball in one go, Half volley as well, and keeps his feet well in the contest.

People have very little patience. How good that put best player slast night were 22 and under and played less than 50 games. The skipper and kruezer aside.

Murphy was phenomenal in the third in gettingnis back into it.

Yep. Some of our best players were the kids. I have blokes at work saying wow, your kids are good. And, they are!

Also from a tactical point, what should Carlton do?
They should make themselves hard to beat.

Forget the scoring for a moment, forget quick breaks and everyone running forward of the play, concentrate on getting into position and shutting down.

It is ugly and it makes us a mongrel crap team to watch, but it also teaches a hell of a lot of discipline and you don't need talent to be disciplined, you need commitment to the task.

The equivalent is my team in soccer, West Brom, they play ugly, they play without real fullbacks in the traditional sense (well at least without a RB) and they don't sprint forward on breaks, they maintain their positions and they are bloody hard in the tackle. It is ugly, it pisses me off, but clubs hate playing against it and it is effective.

If the club played 75% of the game shutting down their opponent, went back to the early Clarko days of crap football and shutting teams down with anti-social football, I think it would go a long way towards setting this group up.

This is what they did last year.

Also, I have it on pretty trustworthy and reliable authority that Bolton is an eau de toilette to Clarko's pure parfum - i.e exactly the same, just not quite as pazzo. You may yet get your wish.

Green shoots:
- Kreuz looked great
- Picket and SPS look like they ll give the side the zip it needs. They ve got bags oif tricks and pace to burn, and the tackling, WOW!
- Marchbank, Macredie and Plowman will be the cornerstone of our backline for the next 10 years
- Weiters up forward worked
- Young SOS impressed and could ve ended up with 4

Weeds:
- Until such time as this side moves past Thomas, White, Casboult and Sam Rowe,, we will never be a decent outfit. They are all dead set liabilities. I mean, if people are happy for Rowe and White to gift wrap the opposition 4-5 goals every week just because they 'try', then we really are up poo creek.
- Murphy and Gibbs will never be what we want them to be. They're 'cherry on top' midfielders, not the hardworking, down and dirty types they need to be.
- Skills still terrible. Cant remember the last time we were a decent side skills wise.

People have very little patience.

I would not have thought so, I would think most people have been measured throughout years of lack of any real success or any sustained period of looking a genuine premiership threat. The club and it's supporters have never really looked like doing a 'Richmond' with turning on itself they way they do.

I personally like to think I have had a lot of patience with the club, but it is okay to be fed up with yet another year of being one of the worst clubs in the competition as well as having doubts around genuine prospects going forward.

Being short of patience to me would be getting upset 2 years after a tilt at the flag and having to rebuild. We are 15 years since we looked like we were a top 4 club in this competition, save for a small period under Ratten that was ruined by injuries.

...............................................
- Skills still terrible. Cant remember the last time we were a decent side skills wise.

2010-2012

Just keep bringing in the young ones the tide will turn eventually patients is a vertsure

The blooding of the young kids is all good and well, in fact it is actually perfect.

The thing is that we still have too many players getting games that have NO FUTURE at our club and to me that has to stop (and the whole rant about trading etc).

Play just kids, lose to Richmond by 65 instead of 43, both are embarrassing, but one gives more games to kids to give them a chance to prove themselves.

All of my anger about last night isn't the result or Bolton or anything, it is at our clubs inability to build a list.

I agree whole heatedly but you can't do it in a season or two, when you are coming from so far back.
You have to play some senior bodies.

The problem is, our senior guys are not physical.
Levi was pathetic in that push and shove last night.
Martin mauled him and he wanted nothing to do with it.

Levi, Kruezer, Rowe, Cripps and E Curnow must crash bodies.

None of them have elite skills so they must work hard physically.

The last thing we need is our kids learning to play soft

I agree whole heatedly but you can't do it in a season or two, when you are coming from so far back.
You have to play some senior bodies.

I think that is a lie that has become a 'known truth'.
I believe you could play an entire team of under 23s and they would be able to match it. Most often the players are going one for one against their older opponents and neither Weitering or Cripps look overwhelmed by elder opponents, regardless of who is around them.

I completely dismiss the notion that you need bigger older bodies in there. I agree you won't win a flag with just younger players, but I think you get more by building a team where the culture is completely reset and those from an alternate era have no influence on where the club heads.

I would rather Curnow or McKay or Silvagni in our forward line over Casboult every single time, even though Casboult would take more contested marks. If i had 3 spots I would put all three of them in and still leave Casboult out.

Build a team of young , brash, cocky antisocial footballers unburdened by the softly approach our elder players have taken to games for years. I don't want them to be role models to these younger guys, not now, not for 1 more day/game.

Patience?

Today's children have never seen Carlton as a contender and have seen us win multiple spoons. Remember the pathetic clubs like StKilda and the Brisbane Bears when we were kids?

Well that's Carlton now. Richmond fans were laughing at us last night.

Patience?

Today's children have never seen Carlton as a contender and have seen us win multiple spoons. Remember the pathetic clubs like StKilda and the Brisbane Bears when we were kids?
What SOS, Bolts, MLG  and Trigg have basically had to do is wipe out everything on and off the field pre end of 2015 and basically build a new Club.

Well that's Carlton now. Richmond fans were laughing at us last night.

Tend to agree.
Today's 16 year old would ve seen 4 spoons and only  4 years of finals appearances..... Now that's just SAD!!!

Just like a page that has been copied too many times, and the final copy is just a blurred version of the original, I can kind of see where Bolts is coming from. I can kind of see the Hawthorn influence, I can see just like them, he tried keeping a reasonably settled defense, whilst throwing the forwards and mids all over the park to try and mix things up, and also to try and upset the opposition's rhythm. But I think he upset our rhythm more than the Tiges. Whereas the Hawks look precise, deliberate and purposeful when they do it, we looked random and confused, just doing it because they do it, and because that's what Bolton knows.

Not sure how precise, deliberate and purposeful the Hawks looked after their superdraft in 2004, when they finished 14 out of 16 in 2005 and 11 out of 16 in 2006. We tend to forget that Brisbane had exceptionally lean years before the halcyon days, as did Hawthorn, as did Geelong etc etc etc. 

Ride the bumps and stay resilient!! 

I think that is a lie that has become a 'known truth'.
I believe you could play an entire team of under 23s and they would be able to match it. Most often the players are going one for one against their older opponents and neither Weitering or Cripps look overwhelmed by elder opponents, regardless of who is around them.

I completely dismiss the notion that you need bigger older bodies in there. I agree you won't win a flag with just younger players, but I think you get more by building a team where the culture is completely reset and those from an alternate era have no influence on where the club heads.

I would rather Curnow or McKay or Silvagni in our forward line over Casboult every single time, even though Casboult would take more contested marks. If i had 3 spots I would put all three of them in and still leave Casboult out.

Build a team of young , brash, cocky antisocial footballers unburdened by the softly approach our elder players have taken to games for years. I don't want them to be role models to these younger guys, not now, not for 1 more day/game.

Just look what happened with GWS. It wasn't until they brought in some strong, experienced and talented older players that there young talented brigade began to understand direction/discipline. It's a balancing act. If you only have younger blokes it ends up being lambs to the slaughter, regardless of how talented they are, and they may in fact end up scarred and developing a culture of failure expectation/tolerance.

As frustrating as it is, I think we're going about it the right way. In fact, I suspect another big clean-out at year's end to complete the 'reset'.

Nonetheless, on form, Thomas, White and Armfield can readily be swapped for Harry McKay, Palmer and Graham/Sheehan.

Nonetheless, on form, Thomas, White and Armfield can readily be swapped for Harry McKay, Palmer and Graham/Sheehan.

Yep
There are senior players we need to keep in the side but those on the fringe can make way.

When you look at the stats vs LY a few things stand out;

1/ Richmond significantly increased their tackle pressure - we didn't.
2/ Richmond had much more i50's [+30% on LY] which generated nearly 40% more scoring shots than LY. We were exactly the same as LY on these stats.
3/ Our defence was horrible - both midfield pressure, back half turnovers, and general defending. We conceded 20% more shots than we did LY. LY we were a hard team to score against, last night the Tigers basically had a winning score at half time!!

There wasn't any areas where you could see tangible improvement, we made a huge number of critical skill errors [many from senior players] and our team defence was ordinary.

Tactically I think we got smashed. Dusty dominated and it just didn't appear we were doing anything to curb his influence in the middle. He ran free around the ground and stoppages. Senior players and the coach need to take responsibility for this.

The youth vs experience argument will rage all year. My view from my playing days is you need a balance - getting physically smashed and intimidated each week, and getting smashed on the scoreboard, can scar players for life. But we need to find experienced players who can make a contribution [eg Wright] vs guys who are just making up the numbers [Thomas, Armfield, White].

I though Rowe was far from our worst, the spoil when he should have marked was probably the big clanger, but it wasn't Jack and Griffiths who did the damage - it was the midfielders and small forwards.

I've said before the only way we will be competitive is IF Gibbs, Murph, Cripps and Kruz all play well - last night Cripps was down and Gibbs was up and down. Murph was ordinary in the first half with some terrible clangers, but he battled back well. Given his layoff it was probably a good game from him. SPS might add into that mix because he certainly looks like he has the tools. Question will be how quickly he picks up the pace, fitness and physical side and the ability to impact for 4 quarters.

With the kids I really want to see more pressure. SPS laid an equal team high of 7, but half our team laid 14 tackles between - that is just unacceptable in modern footy and that has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with mindset.

For re-building lists, look at St Kilda, Western Bulldogs, even Melbourne.

Carlton has never done it before - always gone for quick fixes and tried to win 10+ games in every season.

If you had asked any Western Bulldogs supporter at the start of 2015 if they would win a flag in 2016, you would have got a resounding no.  Turn arounds can come much quicker than most people imagine.

Hang tough

Baggers wrote:
Just look what happened with GWS. It wasn't until they brought in some strong, experienced and talented older players that there young talented brigade began to understand direction/discipline.

Ward, Griffin, Shaw and Mumford stack up pretty well against Wright, Kerridge, Jones and Smedts.

Nonetheless, on form, Thomas, White and Armfield can readily be swapped for Harry McKay, Palmer and Graham/Sheehan.

We must remember it's only r1.

However, on yesterday's NBs form, Harry, Rhys and Nick should all be in consideration for promotion. Seems Gus is still being managed re game time so might be a few weeks away yet.

Baggers wrote:
Just look what happened with GWS. It wasn't until they brought in some strong, experienced and talented older players that there young talented brigade began to understand direction/discipline.

Ward, Griffin, Shaw and Mumford stack up pretty well against Wright, Kerridge, Jones and Smedts.

Think you'll find that at the end of this year, with a lot more salary space, we'll get better experienced boys. The hard thing for us as opposed to GWS is convincing serious experienced talent to actually come to us! GWS was seen as a real premiership contender based on talent.

Thought the young blokes - on the whole - looked very good.

Sure, Marchbank made a few blunders but he was mightily under the pump all night.

Macreadie looked like he belonged ditto Pickett (should have had a run in the guts imo), SPS, SOJ, Plowman.

Charlie C. the only one who looked 'lost'. Another who could have been used in the middle or even down back to get him involved in the game.

Surprised more effort (any?) wasn't made to shut down Martin - couldn't even tell who was manning him most of the night. That is inexcusable imo.

We should also note that despite conceding 83 points in H1 we were on the cusp of getting back into the game in Q3.

Which is remarkable in itself.

Not sure how precise, deliberate and purposeful the Hawks looked after their superdraft in 2004, when they finished 14 out of 16 in 2005 and 11 out of 16 in 2006. We tend to forget that Brisbane had exceptionally lean years before the halcyon days, as did Hawthorn, as did Geelong etc etc etc. 

Ride the bumps and stay resilient!!

Yes, no doubt that's true. But I was referring to a much later stage of the Hawks evolution, the one with which Bolts would be intimately acquainted. He wasn't there in the early 2000's.

But I take your point.

Thought the young blokes - on the whole - looked very good.

Sure, Marchbank made a few blunders but he was mightily under the pump all night.

Macreadie looked like he belonged ditto Pickett (should have had a run in the guts imo), SPS, SOJ, Plowman.

Charlie C. the only one who looked 'lost'. Another who could have been used in the middle or even down back to get him involved in the game.

Surprised more effort (any?) wasn't made to shut down Martin - couldn't even tell who was manning him most of the night. That is inexcusable imo.

Martin scared the crap our of our blokes all night, we have serious issues regarding the lack of physicality in the team, even Cascoult didnt want to mix it with Martin......what made it worse is that even a hacker like Vlastuin was pushing our blokes around...
Agree on the kids, they all showed something....Marchbank was very good and he will learn from the turnovers.....Pickett is class, just needs some better players around him to supply more footy to him...

Wouldnt mind a few more Matty Wrights in the team...can lay a tackle, kicks straight and gives you something every week.....

Baggers wrote :
Think you'll find that at the end of this year, with a lot more salary space, we'll get better experienced boys.

Let's hope so, the only experienced player who has worked out for us in the last decade has been Judd.
You make a very good point, Carlton is just not seen as a desirable destination for better class 100+ game players and that will probably remain the case until we show some genuine improvement.
Meanwhile we have to trust in youngsters, it's much more risky than established talent and our record at identifying quality kids leaves a lot to be desired.

I completely dismiss the notion that you need bigger older bodies in there.

Tell me you're kidding. Any coach, commentator or anyone with any knowledge of the game knows kids need bigger bodies out there for leadership, direction and thee take more of the physical heat. Even the two new sides. GC and GWS, got big bodies in. Rebuilds do need some experience and big bodies. Key is having the right ones.

I'm out. Enjoy your miserable lives.

Martin scared the crap our of our blokes all night, we have serious issues regarding the lack of physicality in the team, even Cascoult didnt want to mix it with Martin......what made it worse is that even a hacker like Vlastuin was pushing our blokes around...
Agree on the kids, they all showed something....Marchbank was very good and he will learn from the turnovers.....Pickett is class, just needs some better players around him to supply more footy to him...

Wouldnt mind a few more Matty Wrights in the team...can lay a tackle, kicks straight and gives you something every week.....

Yes, agree, especially on Wirght. Quickly becoming one of my faves.

Baggers wrote :
Think you'll find that at the end of this year, with a lot more salary space, we'll get better experienced boys.

Let's hope so, the only experienced player who has worked out for us in the last decade has been Judd.
You make a very good point, Carlton is just not seen as a desirable destination for better class 100+ game players and that will probably remain the case until we show some genuine improvement.
Meanwhile we have to trust in youngsters, it's much more risky than established talent and our record at identifying quality kids leaves a lot to be desired.

Think we have a few nice young ones coming through. Thought there were a number of good efforts individually. Functioning as a team, well that's a different issue. Structure could've been better. Too tall in defence to start with. We just lacked run coming out and lacked run through the midfield. Our forward line of paper looks ok with Weitering, SOJ, Pickett, SPS, Wright and to a lesser extent Levi but if we can't get it in quickly enough to get one on ones then any forward line will look bad. We seem to lack the ability to balance both attack and defence. Tiges just rebounded way too easily through the corridor and had way too many one on one's because of it. That slaughtered us.

No need  to play White or Thomas. Get some run in there. With Weitering forward we still need Rowe and with our ruck stocks we still need Levi.

Think we have a few nice young ones coming through. Thought there were a number of good efforts individually. Functioning as a team, well that's a different issue. Structure could've been better. Too tall in defence to start with. We just lacked run coming out and lacked run through the midfield. Our forward line of paper looks ok with Weitering, SOJ, Pickett, SPS, Wright and to a lesser extent Levi but if we can't get it in quickly enough to get one on ones then any forward line will look bad. We seem to lack the ability to balance both attack and defence. Tiges just rebounded way too easily through the corridor and had way too many one on one's because of it. That slaughtered us.

No need  to play White or Thomas. Get some run in there. With Weitering forward we still need Rowe and with our ruck stocks we still need Levi.

Not sure why we give the ball to White coming off the half back line...turns it over every time he kicks on the run.....we miss Byrne and I'd be hoping Sheehan can play
this week and give us some reliable ball use off half back...

Not sure why we give the ball to White coming off the half back line...turns it over every time he kicks on the run.....we miss Byrne and I'd be hoping Sheehan can play
this week and give us some reliable ball use off half back...

Agreed EB1, it's odd that.

No need  to play White or Thomas. Get some run in there. With Weitering forward we still need Rowe and with our ruck stocks we still need Levi.

I  think White needs to spend the rest of his time at Carlton in the Northern Blues, but I think Thomas can still give us something.
Levi can join White in the VFL as far as I'm concerned, along with Jones, players like those won't take us anywhere.

Green shoots:
- Kreuz looked great
- Picket and SPS look like they ll give the side the zip it needs. They ve got bags oif tricks and pace to burn, and the tackling, WOW!
- Marchbank, Macredie and Plowman will be the cornerstone of our backline for the next 10 years
- Weiters up forward worked
- Young SOS impressed and could ve ended up with 4

Weeds:
- Until such time as this side moves past Thomas, White, Casboult and Sam Rowe,, we will never be a decent outfit. They are all dead set liabilities. I mean, if people are happy for Rowe and White to gift wrap the opposition 4-5 goals every week just because they 'try', then we really are up poo creek.
- Murphy and Gibbs will never be what we want them to be. They're 'cherry on top' midfielders, not the hardworking, down and dirty types they need to be.
- Skills still terrible. Cant remember the last time we were a decent side skills wise.

Good wrap up D7. Good reflection of last night and our current situation IMO.

Tell me you're kidding. Any coach, commentator or anyone with any knowledge of the game knows kids need bigger bodies out there for leadership, direction and thee take more of the physical heat. Even the two new sides. GC and GWS, got big bodies in. Rebuilds do need some experience and big bodies. Key is having the right ones.

I am absolutely not kidding. If you want to be competitive right away, yeah that is true, but what do you think is going to happen, that other clubs are going to go around knocking our player out cold and getting suspended all over the place? No it is far more likely that the bigger bodied players out of the younger brigade will stand up and be men and lead their team mates.

The physical heat is rubbish also, Do you think a Jesse Hogan really gets much cut out? No, he is good enough to be elite so he gets that physicality against him and rightly so.

I openly say it goes against all convention, but I don't believe it is a requirement, rather an easily quoted statement.
I believe that GWS improvement come through their young players getting toward that 30-50 game mark where you start to feel confident you belong at this level much more than from the have bigger bodied players, those 4-5 players are just spread out. I think it is a long held belief that is wrong.

Now I don't think a group of 19 year olds will go about winning many games of football, no matter how talented, but I think a group of Under 23s can develop together without any older players.

And in an ideal mix (as I stated last transfer period), I would in fact bring in a few senior players anyway, but I would be bringing in 23-25 year old guns as I got rid of older.

I don't care how incredulous the statement sounds, I honestly believe our club would be better ditching all senior let's say 25+ players (except maybe Murphy, Gibbs, Simmo and Kreuzer and we should be replacing those guys also as soon as possible).

I don't think our results would actually be much worse I think our improvement would be much better and I think we would be better placed for next year. I know I would enjoy the football a lot more seeing we had drawn a clear path to success rather than the fluffing about the club seems to be doing the last 15 years.

I don't care how incredulous the statement sounds, I honestly believe our club would be better ditching all senior let's say 25+ players (except maybe Murphy, Gibbs, Simmo and Kreuzer and we should be replacing those guys also as soon as possible).

Agree 100% with this.
Am happy to put up with mistakes from kids who are inexperienced and are still learning the caper.
The same old senior duds making the same old costly mistakes year in year out though ?.. Cmon!!! Enough is enough with that.

I openly say it goes against all convention, but I don't believe it is a requirement, rather an easily quoted statement.

I think you'll find that the great majority of Premiership teams have at least a couple of 150+ game players.

I think you'll find that the great majority of Premiership teams have at least a couple of 150+ game players.

They do and I said I would bring probably a couple of top line 23-25 year olds also.
But players are harder, faster stronger at a younger age than ever before and not only that, very few teams have ever played with no 150+ game players, so premiership teams will have all met this criteria. It doesn't make it a necessary ingredient though.

If 99% of all teams have had a couple or more 150+ game players, then you have nothing to compare it against.

As I said, it goes against conventional 'wisdom', but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be the best path.

As I said, it goes against conventional 'wisdom', but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be the best path.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see any value in recruiting experienced players simply because they are experienced.
That said it seems that recently the traffic at Princes Park has been heading in the wrong direction, in that we have been losing good quality experienced players but none apart from Thomas have headed our way, and he's not the player we expected.
Tuohy was the latest, 100+ games, well skilled, durable, prime age, gone.

Michael Barlow would have been handy last night!

The youth vs experience argument will rage all year. My view from my playing days is you need a balance - getting physically smashed and intimidated each week, and getting smashed on the scoreboard, can scar players for life. But we need to find experienced players who can make a contribution [eg Wright] vs guys who are just making up the numbers [Thomas, Armfield, White].

We are on exactly the same page in this regard, the "Play the Kids" lobby argue that that it's better for us and them in the long run. But that is only if they aren't damaged by the process.

You get a section of the supporters who claim if they aren't up to it then you replace them. There isn't a single kid starting in the AFL who is up to getting smashed week in and week out. Playing them under such circumstances is basically damaging them for life from a Carlton perspective. Then when we discard them because they aren't the Messiah, they leave and when surrounded by some decent support they improve. Further the club just can't replace them, if they destroy them you basically burn your club's future.

We probably had one or two too many young players out there last night, and it made the whole side look unorganised. In the AFL one hesitant player can bring your team undone, we had two or three that looked completely lost last night.

We did see glimpses of what SPS and Pickett can do when we have the ball. But at the game when you can see the full field you could also clearly see what they often didn't do when Nthmond had the ball, and it wasn't pretty. But I don't hold that against them, they are just beginners.

They do and I said I would bring probably a couple of top line 23-25 year olds also.
But players are harder, faster stronger at a younger age than ever before and not only that, very few teams have ever played with no 150+ game players, so premiership teams will have all met this criteria. It doesn't make it a necessary ingredient though.

If 99% of all teams have had a couple or more 150+ game players, then you have nothing to compare it against.

As I said, it goes against conventional 'wisdom', but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be the best path.

If the club followed your suggested wisdom they would be burning those kids, they would be mentally damaged and dominated by the opposition before they even got started. They need to be part of some little wins, if they are smashed week in and week out they will be permanently affected by that.

btw., If any club could have gone down that route GWS could have, but they didn't so I gather they do not agree with your opinion. Despite being able to take the pick of the crop they preserved their kids by surrounding them with some experience.

1st season; (Some 1st year protection)
Setanta O'hAilpin
Dean Brogan
James McDonald
Luke Power
Chad Cornes
Callan Ward

2nd season; (Not quite ready yet, I suppose ::) )
Bret Thornton
Stephen Gilham

In their 3rd season; (Hang on 3 years why would they even bother?)
Shane Mumford
Josh Hunt

In their 4th Season; (Holly cow, can't they develop those kids at all?)
Ryan Griffin
Joel Patefull

Michael Barlow would have been handy last night!

Yep....only been getting 30 possies a game for GC in the JLT series, Cripps needs some help at the coalface, he was quiet last night and looked rusty, Barlow would have added some class
and let Cripps get a break from being the main man...you look in the twos and we have posters debating the merits of Nick Graham and how he could be our saviour...talk about deckchairs on the Titanic..
Barlow would have been great for our kids too, we need to invest in a couple of bigger mids who can at least match with players like Martin and not look intimidated like our blokes were....interesting how Hardwick praised Caddy for doing all the bullocking work and letting Martin, Prestia, Grigg do the damage...

The problem at our club is that a large number of our experienced players are hacks, so how much benefit and cover do they provide for our youth?
In my opinion they are picking up bad habits and a losing mentality, better if they find their own way if they have the ability.

Yep....only been getting 30 possies a game for GC in the JLT series, Cripps needs some help at the coalface, he was quiet last night and looked rusty, Barlow would have added some class
and let Cripps get a break from being the main man...you look in the twos and we have posters debating the merits of Nick Graham and how he could be our saviour...talk about deckchairs on the Titanic..
Barlow would have been great for our kids too, we need to invest in a couple of bigger mids who can at least match with players like Martin and not look intimidated like our blokes were....interesting how Hardwick praised Caddy for doing all the bullocking work and letting Martin, Prestia, Grigg do the damage...

Yep - Barlow or DeBoer would have been very handy, and we saw why last night. The other thing to remember if you can't put physical pressure on the opposition around the stoppages then you are going to get cut up. These guys also understand the defensive running and spread from clearances that is needed.

I was only watching on TV so couldn't really understand what role White, Army and Thomas were playing. Armfield was a total non event - 1 kick and 1 tackle with 80% game time!! We lacked run out of the backline and White appears to be part of that problem when trying to exit d50, and his skills are very ordinary. Plowman got a fair bit of the ball but he doesn't appear to be very mobile off hbf either.

I'm not going to say to much about the game other than:
- The result, and manner in which we lost, was disappointing (more of the same from the usual suspects);
- Seeing the future run around was pleasing.
Don't give up hope, there's always next week.
Go Blues.

What's this new punch it instead of mark it strategy in the back line?  I hope that's the last we see of that mindless moronic instruction.

And can i just say, that Rance is a dead set, dirty a#hole.

Agree. Such a hero to take out a blindsided 19 yo who had eyes only for the ball. Hopefully Rance's play will be scrutinised closely this year after his shenanigans last year.

Yeah ... I'm gonna be something of a wet blanket and say I don't share the fervour everyone else seems to have for SOSOS, or TWOTT as I call him (The Worst Of The Three). Hopefully he proves me wrong in the coming years but, what's he got that's special/different?  I mean, is he super fast? ...brilliant overhead? ... electrifying goal sneak a la EB? Granted, his mum's still hot but I'm really hoping he doesn't become yet another Coodabeen Carlton Champion.

What's this new punch it instead of mark it strategy in the back line?  I hope that's the last we see of that mindless moronic instruction.

Duh, my name's Sam and I like ta' punch things.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3735/33617750005_9f21d1f9f6.jpg)

I think he is showing signs of being a classy forward Ivan... maybe in the Caracalla/Le Cras mould.

Was playing his 9th game last night,  kicked a couple, still has a long way to go.

No need to wet the bed yet.

Yeah ... I'm gonna be something of a wet blanket and say I don't share the fervour everyone else seems to have for SOSOS, or TWOTT as I call him (The Worst Of The Three). Hopefully he proves me wrong in the coming years but, what's he got that's special/different?  I mean, is he super fast? ...brilliant overhead? ... electrifying goal sneak a la EB? Granted, his mum's still hot but I'm really hoping he doesn't become yet another Coodabeen Carlton Champion.

I have to agree. He contests well and has earned his spot but the accolades he gets on this forum are way over the top.

Yeah ... I'm gonna be something of a wet blanket and say I don't share the fervour everyone else seems to have for SOSOS, or TWOTT as I call him (The Worst Of The Three). Hopefully he proves me wrong in the coming years but, what's he got that's special/different?  I mean, is he super fast? ...brilliant overhead? ... electrifying goal sneak a la EB? Granted, his mum's still hot but I'm really hoping he doesn't become yet another Coodabeen Carlton Champion.

Reads the play and positions himself well, not afraid to go in hard to get the ball. With a bit more size on him I can easily see him being a very classy 3rd tall option. Played his best game last night and will only get better as the season progresses.

He's a lovely mover, chases and tackles well, has good skills, seems to have a natural instinct for the game and plays as though he belongs there after only a handful of games.
What's not to like?

I have to agree. He contests well and has earned his spot but the accolades he gets on this forum are way over the top.

Agree. But that's more a reflection of this forum than young Jack. I'm in the "undecided" camp as far as JS is concerned.

I wonder if Bolts feels a bit of pressure to play him, regardless of how he performs ? Partly because of his old man and partly because he's already a crowd favourite - every time he goes near it, they go off.

He's a lovely mover, chases and tackles well, has good skills, seems to have a natural instinct for the game and plays as though he belongs there after only a handful of games.
What's not to like?

He just has to walk on the field to get best player votes here. If Daisy played the same game as Jack did last night there would still be calls to drop him.

Agree. But that's more a reflection of this forum than young Jack. I'm in the "undecided" camp as far as JS is concerned.

I wonder if Bolts feels a bit of pressure to play him, regardless of how he performs ? Partly because of his old man and partly because he's already a crowd favourite - every time he goes near it, they go off.

It's a non issue now as he's easily in our best side because we're a terrible football team but he wouldn't be close to getting a gig in a top side and when we do eventually bring some forward line talent in I'm not sure where he would fit. Too small to play key position and too slow to be a crumber.

Bit early to stick the knife into Jack and he isnt on $750k a year either is he?

Does money colour peoples judgment of a player?

Does money colour peoples judgment of a player?

If I am paying for a Rolex I dont want to be given a stick in the ground with a circle and told they both do the same job.......

9th game. Wow wish all of our 9 game players kick 2.2.
Gee whiz give the kid a break.
Apart from SPS last night, he is the only one that Always will bleed blue.
Thought Sam played very well and at one stoppage looked around and saw no one was manning Martin so he raced to him and curbed his influence. I thought it was great. Pity some of our seniors didn't take a leaf out of his book.

He just has to walk on the field to get best player votes here. If Daisy played the same game as Jack did last night there would still be calls to drop him.

I'm happier with Daisy in the team but I know that I'm in a minority.
I gave Jack a vote last night, 2 goals and two near misses and he hit Weitering on the chest for another one, a fair night's work for a green as grass kid in a side that had its pants pulled down.

Jack's doing OK AFAIC.

Was very impressed with Jack last night. His defensive running when they have the ball has really improved since last year, watched him run hard past more senior teammates to get to his defensive position after a turnover even when he was knackered. Also showed class in traffic a couple of times that was impressive, a sidestep and lace out pass to Weitering was a highlight. This kid is showing signs in his 9th game of senior footy that he is going to be a real player. Let's re-start this discussion in his fiftieth game....

The problem I'm seeing here is that some folk are looking at last nights game and thinking....
"That's it! That's as good as it gets for 2017. That's just about our best possible side."

but....
Inexperienced players will develop as the season progresses.
There will be a development in terms of combining as a team. That was the first game together for many under match pressure conditions.

On all lines (forward, mid, back) players will start to work out each others limitations and strengths and play to them.

Our starting 22 last night wont be our starting 22 at the end of the year.

Bolton will learn a lot too.

Actually on reflection, there were aspects of last night that suggested that we finally have the framework/skeleton of a decent side with the forward line looking much better...and a few youngsters showing a bit back.
Now to put some flesh on i!

...and on the other side of the coin...

...and then we get some injuries.

Silvagni finds space and is a natural footballer. Who cares if he isn't fast or tall. Last night he took 5 marks inside 50. I don't know the last time that would have been achieved by one of our players, let alone team. If he continues to contribute he holds his spot, one of our more promising young players.

It's his second season, probably less than 20 games ffs and he has done one pre season.

Some people here would whinge if a dog crap in their lunch. Get a grip

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2017-03-24/top-5-stats-round-1

Sam Petrevski-Seton
Game–high 23 pressure acts

Prized recruit Sam Petrevski-Seton wasn’t overawed by the occasion, displaying calmness and poise. The No.6 draft pick started with a bang, gathering six disposals and earning a free for a fierce tackle in the first term. But he wasn’t done there, being a constant threat to the Tigers to finish with a game-high 23 pressure acts and team-high seven tackles.

Jack Silvagni
Game-high 4 marks inside 50

Carlton played three teenagers in their forward line, with Jack Silvagni one of them. The Blues’ new No.1 was a constant danger to Richmond’s defence, finishing with two goals and an equal game-high four marks inside 50. He wasn’t awarded an impressive pack mark in the second half, with video replays later confirming that the umpires had made an incorrect decision.

...and on the other side of the coin...

...and then we get some injuries.

Some posts are diamonds.
Some posts are stones. :D

I'll talk them up...you talk them down and the reality will be somewhere in the middle ;)

Silvagni finds space and is a natural footballer. Who cares if he isn't fast or tall. Last night he took 5 marks inside 50. I don't know the last time that would have been achieved by one of our players, let alone team. If he continues to contribute he holds his spot, one of our more promising young players.

It's his second season, probably less than 20 games ffs and he has done one pre season.

Some people here would whinge if a dog crap in their lunch. Get a grip

I would certainly whinge if a dog crapped in my lunch.

Yeah ... I'm gonna be something of a wet blanket and say I don't share the fervour everyone else seems to have for SOSOS, or TWOTT as I call him (The Worst Of The Three). Hopefully he proves me wrong in the coming years but, what's he got that's special/different?  I mean, is he super fast? ...brilliant overhead? ... electrifying goal sneak a la EB? Granted, his mum's still hot but I'm really hoping he doesn't become yet another Coodabeen Carlton Champion.

Worst of the three in that family might not necessarily be indicative of anything given how brilliant the other two were. If he's even close he'll be a star.

IMO, I think he will turn out really good. He just looks a player.

IMO, I think he will turn out really good. He just looks a player.

Yep, a natural born footballer.
Ironically if he wasn't the son of a club legend we probably would have walked past him, too slow, not overly big, can't kick it out of sight, no obvious weapons.
We were virtually forced to draft him.

Impressed by the way jack tried to milk a 50 m penalty with one of his early marks - Richmond player bumped him and jack had the nouse to drop the ball - however no dice

Bleeds naviest of blues

Yeah ... I'm gonna be something of a wet blanket and say I don't share the fervour everyone else seems to have for SOSOS, or TWOTT as I call him (The Worst Of The Three). Hopefully he proves me wrong in the coming years but, what's he got that's special/different?  I mean, is he super fast? ...brilliant overhead? ... electrifying goal sneak a la EB? Granted, his mum's still hot but I'm really hoping he doesn't become yet another Coodabeen Carlton Champion.

Takes balls to shoot Bambi in front of the kids, I'll give you that much.

Takes no balls at all to shoot a kid in his 9th game, I don't care what his surname is.
Doesn't impress me.

Silvagni finds space and is a natural footballer. Who cares if he isn't fast or tall. Last night he took 5 marks inside 50. I don't know the last time that would have been achieved by one of our players, let alone team. If he continues to contribute he holds his spot, one of our more promising young players.

It's his second season, probably less than 20 games ffs and he has done one pre season.

Some people here would whinge if a dog crap in their lunch. Get a grip

Are you kidding? I would LOVE a dog to crap in my lunch! It would inject some interest into my otherwise dreary life and momentarily take my mind off the fact that we haven't won a flag in 21 years after winning 8 in the previous 27.

Are you kidding? I would LOVE a dog to crap in my lunch! It would inject some interest into my otherwise dreary life and momentarily take my mind off the fact that we haven't won a flag in 21 years after winning 8 in the previous 27.

It's just a saying Ivan ????

Stay patient mate, if you are gonna pot blokes look at the over 29s on our list

Looks like SmartReplay has got the kibosh from the AFL!

OK here's my two cents on last night, apologies if I'm repeating what's been said, but I figure the 4 hour round trip earns me the right.
Positives: Murphy and Kreuzer were both fantastic, gave it everything they had. I've been critical of Murphy in the past for his defensive work, but 7 tackles last night, lots of chasing and pressure acts, very good.
Gibbs was very good too. I know he gets no love on this forum, but 26 possessions, 6 tackles and a goal is good output.
Marchbank the biggest positive out of the night for me. Great mobility and endurance, reads the play very well. I know he shanked a couple of kicks, but if he gets some continuity without injury will be a star, we may have found ourselves a 10 year CHB.
Plowman very solid, will be a super reliable defender for 10 years. Was taken deep a lot last night, but as we improve will have more opportunity to show more of the attacking side of his game.
Simpson did what he does. Every week. Always one of our best and under-appreciated players.
Wright just keeps impressing with his tackling and harassment, and is probably our best finisher. Would be one of the first picked every week. Could be our leading goal scorer again this year.
Weitering as a forward showed that he knows how to play there, and hates being beaten in any contest. I've changed my mind, I'd play him forward at least half of the time this year, maybe closer to 80% Just have to monitor his body and make sure he doesn't get beaten up.
SPS was very impressive imo. We may have finally found ourselves a two-way midfielder, and we have had one of them since, well ever. Loves to harass and tackle, but also loves to find space a accelerate away from the contest. This guy will be a genuine star.
Smedts, don't understand the criticism of this kid. To me he looks like a smart footballer, does a lot of running without the ball both defensively and offensively, makes good decisions and has good skills. I can't wait to see what he can do with a continuous season of footy under his belt.
Rowe and White. yes they are both limited, but they give everything 100% of the time, which was the cause for much furore in the practice games. If we want to play Weitering forward we have to play Rowe back. White will get a game until someone deserves one more, he gives his all, and yes he chops the ball up a bit, but if our running defenders were going better he wouldn't have to kick!
Macreadie showed some agression and toughness, I liked what I saw and would love to see him get some more games. Think he will end up being a fan favourite based on the way he goes about it.
Pickett, need a few more games to make an informed comment but appears to have serious tricks, pace to burn and loves to chase and tackle, which we really need. I have high hopes for this guy.
Not so positives:
Docherty seems to be underdone to me, was fumbly and disposal was ordinary. Is a very good player so I'm hoping he just needs a game or two under his belt to get back to last years form.
Cripps clearly underdone. Ignore his performance this game, check how he's going in 3-4 weeks. So hard to miss a month of preseason and hit the ground running.
E Curnow needs to work on his disposal, but can't question his effort.
C Curnow needs clear definition on what his role is. Looked lost. I would like to see him given a position for a month and told to make it his. Same thing happened to him at Geelong College, he was a mid one week, key forward the next, defender the next, wing the next etc. My choice would be wing.

Rowe must go, Thomas pay him out now,Armfield buy him to a ticket and let him watch from the stands why should he get to watch the game from out on the ground,White don't let the door slam him in the ass on hes way out. I don't care if we win or loose but play the kids now  they are the future why keep going back to a proven past that was a failure with these blokes.they all play for carlton I respect them and admire whaty they have dne but they just are not good enough and are not the future

Yeah ... I'm gonna be something of a wet blanket and say I don't share the fervour everyone else seems to have for SOSOS, or TWOTT as I call him (The Worst Of The Three). Hopefully he proves me wrong in the coming years but, what's he got that's special/different?  I mean, is he super fast? ...brilliant overhead? ... electrifying goal sneak a la EB? Granted, his mum's still hot but I'm really hoping he doesn't become yet another Coodabeen Carlton Champion.

How many other players drafted within cooee of him are looking like a player? How many have even played.

He is younger than those same players too.

Jack is the biggest steal from that draft at the pick we got him.

What does he do that special/different?
He doesn't make stupid mistakes.

What does he do wrong??

OK here's my two cents on last night, apologies if I'm repeating what's been said, but I figure the 4 hour round trip earns me the right.
Positives: Murphy and Kreuzer were both fantastic, gave it everything they had. I've been critical of Murphy in the past for his defensive work, but 7 tackles last night, lots of chasing and pressure acts, very good.
Gibbs was very good too. I know he gets no love on this forum, but 26 possessions, 6 tackles and a goal is good output.
Marchbank the biggest positive out of the night for me. Great mobility and endurance, reads the play very well. I know he shanked a couple of kicks, but if he gets some continuity without injury will be a star, we may have found ourselves a 10 year CHB.
Plowman very solid, will be a super reliable defender for 10 years. Was taken deep a lot last night, but as we improve will have more opportunity to show more of the attacking side of his game.
Simpson did what he does. Every week. Always one of our best and under-appreciated players.
Wright just keeps impressing with his tackling and harassment, and is probably our best finisher. Would be one of the first picked every week. Could be our leading goal scorer again this year.
Weitering as a forward showed that he knows how to play there, and hates being beaten in any contest. I've changed my mind, I'd play him forward at least half of the time this year, maybe closer to 80% Just have to monitor his body and make sure he doesn't get beaten up.
SPS was very impressive imo. We may have finally found ourselves a two-way midfielder, and we have had one of them since, well ever. Loves to harass and tackle, but also loves to find space a accelerate away from the contest. This guy will be a genuine star.
Smedts, don't understand the criticism of this kid. To me he looks like a smart footballer, does a lot of running without the ball both defensively and offensively, makes good decisions and has good skills. I can't wait to see what he can do with a continuous season of footy under his belt.
Rowe and White. yes they are both limited, but they give everything 100% of the time, which was the cause for much furore in the practice games. If we want to play Weitering forward we have to play Rowe back. White will get a game until someone deserves one more, he gives his all, and yes he chops the ball up a bit, but if our running defenders were going better he wouldn't have to kick!
Macreadie showed some agression and toughness, I liked what I saw and would love to see him get some more games. Think he will end up being a fan favourite based on the way he goes about it.
Pickett, need a few more games to make an informed comment but appears to have serious tricks, pace to burn and loves to chase and tackle, which we really need. I have high hopes for this guy.
Not so positives:
Docherty seems to be underdone to me, was fumbly and disposal was ordinary. Is a very good player so I'm hoping he just needs a game or two under his belt to get back to last years form.
Cripps clearly underdone. Ignore his performance this game, check how he's going in 3-4 weeks. So hard to miss a month of preseason and hit the ground running.
E Curnow needs to work on his disposal, but can't question his effort.
C Curnow needs clear definition on what his role is. Looked lost. I would like to see him given a position for a month and told to make it his. Same thing happened to him at Geelong College, he was a mid one week, key forward the next, defender the next, wing the next etc. My choice would be wing.

Great post JB

His first half was ordinary but by the end of the game I was happier with what I saw from SOS Jr... he is going to the perfect size for a hit up forward - something we haven't had since, well, Matt Clape?  In time, fed by a decent midfield, he could be at least the equal of a Gunston.  He has something that few in the current side has - both a defined role and the nous and smarts to actually contribute in that role.  Considering that he is barely 19 and missed most of the past two years I would have though that he was tracking nicely. 

Two goals a game is 40 odd a year.  I'd take that from a flanker.

Worst of the three in that family might not necessarily be indicative of anything given how brilliant the other two were. If he's even close he'll be a star.

IMO, I think he will turn out really good. He just looks a player.

x2...has footy smarts and is composed most times which has him ahead of half our team who look far from composed...hello Sam Rowe....try marking the ball big fella...

x2...has footy smarts and is composed most times which has him ahead of half our team who look far from composed...hello Sam Rowe....try marking the ball big fella...

What on Earth goes through a player's head to make him do that?

It's either lack of confidence or he's been instructed to punch everything

I still thought Rowe was a solid contributor despite that brain fade.  Another bloke with whom the coaches must treat with a "keep it simple" mantra.  Squared enough contests with Reiwoldt to have him squealing like a bi-atch all night.

I still thought Rowe was a solid contributor despite that brain fade.  Another bloke with whom the coaches must treat with a "keep it simple" mantra.  Squared enough contests with Reiwoldt to have him squealing like a bi-atch all night.

The goal Caddy kicked on him when Dusty bombed it was a free kick for holding the man every day of the week. Umpire was busy pulling his pood over Dusty to pay it.

Thought Rowe was okay too. Not sure why he always gets s#i# canned here?

I thought he more than did his job... if you offered me 1 goal to Riewoldt pre-match I would have locked it in pretty quickly.

Rowe generally halves the contest... ok, maybe he over did the punching last night.

I thought he more than did his job... if you offered me 1 goal to Riewoldt pre-match I would have locked it in pretty quickly.

Rowe generally halves the contest... ok, maybe he over did the punching last night.

Agree, an honest player who contributes. No complaints about Rowe from me.

The punching needs to go. Back yourself in and go for a mark.

How many other players drafted within cooee of him are looking like a player? How many have even played.

He is younger than those same players too.

Jack is the biggest steal from that draft at the pick we got him.

What does he do that special/different?
He doesn't make stupid mistakes.

What does he do wrong??

I'd have to watch the replay but he definitely was caught out of position a few times and chose the wrong option on a couple of other occasions.
But I'll admit I may be guilty of a little reverse bias - the Silvagni name brings with it great expectations. We've had far too many sacred cows at this club recently. Mediocrity has become the norm.

Thought Rowe was okay too. Not sure why he always gets s#i# canned here?

Thought he played defensively ok too.....just lacked the awareness/composure to mark the footy when he had the ball all to himself....like to see him a bit more positive at times.
During the JLT series he marked the ball within kicking range and went for a lollypop kick pass that missed by a mile.... should have kicked the goal...
Point being I think SOSOS has plenty of confidence/composure to back himself in and thats a good trait for a forward...

If I am paying for a Rolex I dont want to be given a stick in the ground with a circle and told they both do the same job.......

That's very disappointing EB1, I'd always thought you were without such biases, a person who calls a spade a spade.

that goal that caddy kicked should never have happened rowe had prime position and let him go past him a good defender does not let that happen watch the replay the hold did not hinder him at all he just panicked he is no good as I said I admire all he has done but he is not the answer in defence.play him forward where he has to mark the ball he is a good kick but he is not a defender

that goal that caddy kicked should never have happened rowe had prime position and let him go past him a good defender does not let that happen watch the replay the hold did not hinder him at all he just panicked he is no good as I said I admire all he has done but he is not the answer in defence.play him forward where he has to mark the ball he is a good kick but he is not a defender

It should have been a free kick to Rowe holding the man.

It should have been a free kick to Rowe holding the man.

+1 if the roles were reversed they would have paid the free to caddy without hesitation.

Apologies if someone has already raised this subject but I don't have time to read all of the previous posts.  Can anyone tell me what the game plan was for at least trying to minimise Martin's impact - other than the comment on the banner.

He was on his own so often that it gave the impression we were hoping he would run out of puff from the amount of ground he covered when collecting and using so much uncontested ball.

At many stoppages play in the second half, our midfielders (Gibbs in particular) looked directly at Martin and then chose to man-up on another opponent whilst directing a younger teammate (e.g. Petrevski-Seton, Macreadie) towards Martin or just leaving him on his own.

BTW - Ed Curnow should be banned from ever passing the ball into the corridor by foot; his efforts to kicking short to a teammate have turnover written all over them. If he has to kick the ball, he should kick long and towards the boundary line.

With the kids I really want to see more pressure. SPS laid an equal team high of 7, but half our team laid 14 tackles between - that is just unacceptable in modern footy and that has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with mindset.

Tackling is a definite area we need to improve.
Note: 2 doggies players each laid 14 tackles tonight.

Apologies if someone has already raised this subject but I don't have time to read all of the previous posts.  Can anyone tell me what the game plan was for at least trying to minimise Martin's impact - other than the comment on the banner.

He was on his own so often that it gave the impression we were hoping he would run out of puff from the amount of ground he covered when collecting and using so much uncontested ball.

At many stoppages play in the second half, our midfielders (Gibbs in particular) looked directly at Martin and then chose to man-up on another opponent whilst directing a younger teammate (e.g. Petrevski-Seton, Macreadie) towards Martin or just leaving him on his own.

BTW - Ed Curnow should be banned from ever passing the ball into the corridor by foot; his efforts to kicking short to a teammate have turnover written all over them. If he has to kick the ball, he should kick long and towards the boundary line.

Said it previously that Martin scares our blokes and no one wanted to mix it with him....last time I saw that with a player was with Barry Hall who had our blokes jumping out of his road as he crashed through feeble tackles.
Hope Bolton addresses this issue and demands his senior players take responsibility, we need to recruit a couple of tougher players who can provide  what we lack and at least stand up when needed.
Its not about fighting or whacking blokes like Martin but showing that he can be tackled and hurt by our blokes..watched the game with some Essendon supporting family friends and they thought it was hilarious how Martin had so much time to do what he liked and how our blokes avoided him...just embarrassing IMO..

I found it interesting today how full of praise 'non Carlton' workmates etc. were of our performance last night, especially our youngsters. Is it pity (no one has sympathy for Carlton!!) or is it genuine?  Maybe things look different through other eyes!!

I found it interesting today how full of praise 'non Carlton' workmates etc. were of our performance last night, especially our youngsters. Is it pity (no one has sympathy for Carlton!!) or is it genuine?  Maybe things look different through other eyes!!

We played an honest match and the Tigers were flat track bullies last night.

Some of our kids were good, others not so good, but a good side would have won by 10 goals against us and I thought we did well to keep it to 40 odd points for most of the game.

I am surprised by the Jack doubters.

For a kid who was absolutely bottom age last year I see a hell of a lot to like. I stick to my early call that I think he will be the best kid (eventually) from that draft, including Weiters who is going to be a champ (and a lot sooner than Jack).

MBB If Dale Thomas was 19 and played the game Jack played there is no chance I would be calling for his head.

I think he will be our number 1 forward by the end of the year, I reckon he might end up a big strong unit like his old man.

With the kids I really want to see more pressure. SPS laid an equal team high of 7, but half our team laid 14 tackles between - that is just unacceptable in modern footy and that has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with mindset.

Tackling is a definite area we need to improve.
Note: 2 doggies players each laid 14 tackles tonight.

Agree Martin should Not have been allowed to run amock, worst incident was when he rag dolled  Casboult a much bigger and heavier opponent.
I'm not advocating vindictive or spiteful play but he should have been sat on his bum during that incident. Not good of team moral.

My main response to that game was 1 of disappointment..... at the lack of intensity.

 I wanted to see us have a red hot crack at it, it looked more like we were only running on 3 cylinders. The most damning stat was 88 tackles to 67, Richmond's way. That just simply isn't good enough. It doesn't require talent, or experience to have a crack, just get in there and have a go. 

I would loved to have heard a question along these lines directed at Bolton in the post game presser!
For me, this is the 1st thing that needs to be addressed. We will never win a game against anyone with the lack of intensity that we showed against the Tigers, it wouldn't matter how much talent we put out there.

And we did have some Talent!

 It was nice to have the captain back, Murph is a very classy player, with ball in hand.

SPS is going to be a joy to watch! Only small glimpses last night really, but looking forward to much more!

Pickett is also going to be exciting to watch. I'm really hoping that he can build a tank and be able to play through the midfield and not just up forward.

Marchbank and Plowman will make a great tandem team for many years.

Macreadie didn't do a lot, But I saw a couple of nice things, he didn't look overawed.

I didn't see Smedts do anything outstanding, but I thought he went ok.

Weitering up forward was no surprise, 3 goals was a good return, he is just a quality player, who will always be hard to shut down for a whole game.

SOS is just a pure footballer, great to watch, I wish we had more like him! Maybe we will soon enough!

I was disappointed with Charlie Curnow, he didn't hit the scoreboard as a forward, and lacked possessions for a mid. Not entirely sure what his role was, but he somehow needs to find ways to get more involved. 5 tackles was better than many of his team mates though!

Rowe was good, I felt sorry for him when I think it was Caddy kicked that grubber goal on him.

Kreuzer had a great game, his 2nd efforts are just amazing! And 1 of his chases down the wing put many of our other mids to shame!!

With the kids I really want to see more pressure. SPS laid an equal team high of 7, but half our team laid 14 tackles between - that is just unacceptable in modern footy and that has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with mindset.

Tackling is a definite area we need to improve.
Note: 2 doggies players each laid 14 tackles tonight.

Hear, hear!!

Murphy was a bit underdone and got caught & brutally gang-tackled a few times..I reckon that inflated the Tigers tackle stats in my view.

We also lacked a 'road block' at CHB to stop and repel the constant Richmond leads into that area... yet another strategic failure of Boltons. It's unforgivable that Martin did not have a direct opponent for most of the night. Our midfield is just unaccountable and too light-weight for the modern game. You need a few wrecking-ball types !

Positives
Sammo soaked up a mountain of pressure and looked good before a bit of a fade.
Pickett flashes of great. Can't wait till he builds up his tank.
McCreadie was good, reads it well. Some muscle and he'll hold his own.
Smedts was good in patches. Looked like he moved well. Expect his improvement to increase quickly.
Marchbank and Weiters  ????????
Crippa got through unscathed. Will be better for the run.
Sam Rowe and Kruez were solid. Looked to give 100%
Daisy kicked longer and offered more in general. Maybe that ankle's better.
Plowman was solid. He'll continue to improve.

As others noted, (quite) a few of our seniors didn't perform as we hoped. Obviously we can't expect to win under those conditions.

In all, the youngsters had a great hit out. Their learning now begins.

Great post, agreed

Smedts was fine.  He didn't Kerridge the ball for one and did some neat things by hand.

Did he get enough of the ball, no. But he showed reasonable composure in traffic and is only just getting back into the swing of AFL.

couldn't agree more, i'd rather Smedts being a little cautious than Kerridge who is an athlete at best. I'd honestly only play Kerridge as a tagger or a forward. Needs to be given a job and i'd like to see him kick some snags, he's shown at the crows that he can kick goals.

Things I learnt tonight:

- We picked up a 10year player in Caleb Marchbank
- GWS have directly and indirectly gifted us a very promising backline (Marchbank, Plowman and Macreadie)
- Once SPS is match fit he's going to light up our games
- Weitering will rarely be sighted in defence this year, and that's ok
- Our forward line actually shows promise (pity the delivery into it is scarce)
- Thomas won't hit his quota for a new contract
- Jack is a chip off the old block. Knows how to position himself and will only get better
- This is going to be a long season, full of mistakes, but the foundation for the future is really starting to take shape
- Next draft we need to stock up on as many A Grade midfielders as we can get our hands on

Love it  ;)

Nailed it tragic, well said mate.

Some of the commentary here is ridiculous, apparently we are further from a premiership after last night. We are blooding young kids, ALL who showed something last night (inc curnow) and when was the last time we could say that?

Everyone expected we couldn't find goals, but looked the most coherent heading towards goal for several years. Unexpectedly it was our backs that crapped themselves and coughed up at least 5-6.

The difference with this crop of youngsters is they take the game on and will no doubt learn from the experience.

Like I said elsewhere, Bolton could easily have move weitering back, and played loose men back but how does that help in our development? Playing players in their positions, sprinkled with some experience is the best way for them to learn their role, their limitations and capabilities.

So whilst it was a disappointing loss, there was enough in it for me to walk away feeling content that we are on the right track. Much patience will be required.

Like.
Last year was all about defence, which we did well. This year its about learning to attack more, whilst trying to still have a stingy team defence.
We'll get scored against a lot more heavily this year given our need to learn to attack more.

With the kids I really want to see more pressure. SPS laid an equal team high of 7, but half our team laid 14 tackles between - that is just unacceptable in modern footy and that has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with mindset.

Tackling is a definite area we need to improve.
Note: 2 doggies players each laid 14 tackles tonight.

Cant tackle what you cant catch.

Murphy was a bit underdone and got caught & brutally gang-tackled a few times.

He was also regularly dumped off the ball, which led to an attempt at revenge in the 3rd quarter when he tried to return the favour only to bounce off and suffer significantly more than his opponent. It would have been funny if it wasn't so sad.

Cant tackle what you cant catch.

Spot on. Big difference between early 2016 and this match was the absence of Carlton players closing down opponents as soon as or before they received the ball.

By contrast, the Tigers were preemptive in closing down the Carlton players who looked like they might be in line to receive the ball - which is what our players were doing last year.

Cant tackle what you cant catch.

I don't reckon it has got much to do with speed - Doc, Daisy, Smedts, SOJ all had one tackle.

2 guys on debut in SPS and Macreadie made nearly 20% of the teams tackles - think about that for a second. Tackling is about intent, and too many of our guys stand back or get brushed aside too easily. I don't see how a lack of speed impacts your ability to make and stick tackles.

Spot on. Big difference between early 2016 and this match was the absence of Carlton players closing down opponents as soon as or before they received the ball.

By contrast, the Tigers were preemptive in closing down the Carlton players who looked like they might be in line to receive the ball - which is what our players were doing last year.

Agree RR, they closed the space around he ball holder very well. We seemed to sag off more and keep a greater distance giving them more time effectively. They were manic at pressuring the man with the ball, we were not. Again, this all comes with getting games into the young fellas.

I don't reckon it has got much to do with speed - Doc, Daisy, Smedts, SOJ all had one tackle.

2 guys on debut in SPS and Macreadie made nearly 20% of the teams tackles - think about that for a second. Tackling is about intent, and too many of our guys stand back or get brushed aside too easily. I don't see how a lack of speed impacts your ability to make and stick tackles.

Spot on, I wasnt suggesting it was due to lack of speed.

I don't reckon it has got much to do with speed - Doc, Daisy, Smedts, SOJ all had one tackle.

2 guys on debut in SPS and Macreadie made nearly 20% of the teams tackles - think about that for a second. Tackling is about intent, and too many of our guys stand back or get brushed aside too easily. I don't see how a lack of speed impacts your ability to make and stick tackles.

Right there sbf.

Both those boys had a red-hot go.

Cant tackle what you cant catch.

Cant tackle what you dont want to catch ie Martin...

Spot on, I wasnt suggesting it was due to lack of speed.

No problem - my mistake. RR is spot on - we sagged off especially from mid way through the first qtr to half time. I think we only had about 25 tackles to half time. It meant the Tigers had time and space to break away from clearances, and they had more numbers at the contest than us. Last year I thought our pressure around the ball was good, but it really looked poor in the JLT and it continued during Rd1. If we don't fix that up we will get spanked hard against the better teams.

We were competitive in games last year because we were hard to score against. Thursday night was back to the bad old days - 132 pts and 32 scoring shots against us, by a team that is middle of the road at best IMO. I pray we can flick the switch during the week on this or it's going to get ugly.

The boys only need to watch last night's game to see what's required to mix it with the best.

No problem - my mistake. RR is spot on - we sagged off especially from mid way through the first qtr to half time. I think we only had about 25 tackles to half time. It meant the Tigers had time and space to break away from clearances, and they had more numbers at the contest than us. Last year I thought our pressure around the ball was good, but it really looked poor in the JLT and it continued during Rd1. If we don't fix that up we will get spanked hard against the better teams.

We were competitive in games last year because we were hard to score against. Thursday night was back to the bad old days - 132 pts and 32 scoring shots against us, by a team that is middle of the road at best IMO. I pray we can flick the switch during the week on this or it's going to get ugly.

The game was effectively lost by end-Q1. We did pick up our efforts after half-time and this was very noticeable, but by then it was all too late. As previously posted though, it was an introduction into the big time for our younger, newer guys. Agree, the Tiger pressure and tackling was significantly more effective than ours and this had a big bearing on the result. Hopefully some lessons learned, but gee - some of our senior players are bl00dy slow learners.  ::)

Cant tackle what you dont want to catch ie Martin...

Our development coaches are dumb.

Dusty's fend off is dead easy to deal with. You just tell the kids to forget the ball and sling him as hard as they can by his arm. You grab his wrist and drive your other hand into his elbow. Eventually he will either wreck his elbow, his shoulder, or he will become wary of the consequences which causes a hesitation in his actions.

I don't think it's the development coaches that are dumb.

I don't think it's the development coaches that are dumb.

Dusty gets a free ride from umpires, he regularly sticks his hand in the opponents throat and isn't penalised. If umpires aren't acting on his infractions players are entitled to defend themselves.

I've had enough of the media sycophants defending illegal actions from the likes of Martin, Franklin, Mumford and a host of others. They carry on about how great and how strong these players are then when a some 1st year copies their actions they scream about it being an illegal tactic. Hands in the back by forwards is a another great example of this from Thursday night, also tackling players before they even have the ball, driving them into the ground.

Too often it seems those decisions favour on side or another, it's completely incongruous with the spirit of the game. Games are no longer decided by the best players, the main influence on the result of games is how well coached players are to infringe on the limit of the law. If we think patience and player development will see that turn around we are ignorant of the circumstances.

Get political Carlton, get up to speed on the tactics, and play on the limits of the game not in the safe margins.

My main response to that game was 1 of disappointment..... at the lack of intensity.

 I wanted to see us have a red hot crack at it, it looked more like we were only running on 3 cylinders. The most damning stat was 88 tackles to 67, Richmond's way. That just simply isn't good enough. It doesn't require talent, or experience to have a crack, just get in there and have a go. 

I would loved to have heard a question along these lines directed at Bolton in the post game presser!
For me, this is the 1st thing that needs to be addressed. We will never win a game against anyone with the lack of intensity that we showed against the Tigers, it wouldn't matter how much talent we put out there.

And we did have some Talent!

 It was nice to have the captain back, Murph is a very classy player, with ball in hand.

SPS is going to be a joy to watch! Only small glimpses last night really, but looking forward to much more!

Pickett is also going to be exciting to watch. I'm really hoping that he can build a tank and be able to play through the midfield and not just up forward.

Marchbank and Plowman will make a great tandem team for many years.

Macreadie didn't do a lot, But I saw a couple of nice things, he didn't look overawed.

I didn't see Smedts do anything outstanding, but I thought he went ok.

Weitering up forward was no surprise, 3 goals was a good return, he is just a quality player, who will always be hard to shut down for a whole game.

SOS is just a pure footballer, great to watch, I wish we had more like him! Maybe we will soon enough!

I was disappointed with Charlie Curnow, he didn't hit the scoreboard as a forward, and lacked possessions for a mid. Not entirely sure what his role was, but he somehow needs to find ways to get more involved. 5 tackles was better than many of his team mates though!

Rowe was good, I felt sorry for him when I think it was Caddy kicked that grubber goal on him.

Kreuzer had a great game, his 2nd efforts are just amazing! And 1 of his chases down the wing put many of our other mids to shame!!

+ 1

+2.

The lack of intensity was very evident from the get go. You don't beat anyone at this level unless you're hungry....

i expect to beat the Dees if we amp up the hunger!

Dusty gets a free ride from umpires, he regularly sticks his hand in the opponents throat and isn't penalised. If umpires aren't acting on his infractions players are entitled to defend themselves.

I've had enough of the media sycophants defending illegal actions from the likes of Martin, Franklin, Mumford and a host of others. They carry on about how great and how strong these players are then when a some 1st year copies their actions they scream about it being an illegal tactic. Hands in the back by forwards is a another great example of this from Thursday night, also tackling players before they even have the ball, driving them into the ground.

Too often it seems those decisions favour on side or another, it's completely incongruous with the spirit of the game. Games are no longer decided by the best players, the main influence on the result of games is how well coached players are to infringe on the limit of the law. If we think patience and player development will see that turn around we are ignorant of the circumstances.

Get political Carlton, get up to speed on the tactics, and play on the limits of the game not in the safe margins.

Was it the Hawks that coined the phrase "unsociable footy"?

Was it the Hawks that coined the phrase "unsociable footy"?

Not sure if it came from them directly, or from a journo in reference to them.

Goes to show you the power of marketing - we won't call it thuggish, take-out-the-man footy, we'll call it unsociable - and the media, who clearly love having a new phrase to bandy about, lapped it up.

Certainly gets more airplay than Lethal's "if it bleeds, you can kill it" nonsense.

That's very disappointing EB1, I'd always thought you were without such biases, a person who calls a spade a spade.

Sorry to disappoint LP and I do think I am a fair individual who does call a spade a spade etc....but with anything in life the greater the reward
the greater the responsibility in most cases..
I'm not a Thomas fan as you know but  you would also see I didnt bag him out after the game either, there were others worse and some better.
Yep he he got a rough deal on that holding the ball and his disposal compared to others like Simon White was much better...did he give effort, yes I think he did.
Did he give us 750k's worth of value..no...but I preferred to concentrate on others who I felt gave less effort...

Our development coaches are dumb.

Dusty's fend off is dead easy to deal with. You just tell the kids to forget the ball and sling him as hard as they can by his arm. You grab his wrist and drive your other hand into his elbow. Eventually he will either wreck his elbow, his shoulder, or he will become wary of the consequences which causes a hesitation in his actions.

How easy you reckon it is to grab a bloke who is oiled up, or at the very list covered in sweat. Like catching a greased up pig.

How easy you reckon it is to grab a bloke who is oiled up, or at the very list covered in sweat. Like catching a greased up pig.

I think the issue people on here are having is that none of our players even tried - no one is questioning that's he's a hard man to bring down, oil or no oil.

How easy you reckon it is to grab a bloke who is oiled up, or at the very list covered in sweat. Like catching a greased up pig.

Our blokes ran away from Dusty or tried to shove the responsibility onto another player, they were scared to touch him, even Casboult didnt want anything to do with him when there was push and shove going on.
Its embarrassing for the club when one player has intimidated your team, we are not a physical team and will be exploited until either our senior players standup, or our young blokes grow up and are taught to tackle and fly the flag for their mates. The club may need to recruit some players who are prepared to be more physical and contest with the likes of Dusty better and make tackles stick....Dochertys attempt for example when he was" dont argued" wasnt good enough unlike Wright who hung on for dear life when he dragged the bigger Rance down....

Martin does it every week.

All this Martin crap is going too far. Yes he wasn't tagged but does anyone appreciate how bloody good he is!

I mean all this talk like we are scared to tackle him....we don't want to tackle him. I mean seriously?

He is an elite player who is abnormally strong through the core. We have an undersized mid field group and played 6 new players and had lots of under 21 year old. What do you expect.

He has perfected a technique that the majority of opponents can't deal with hence why he uses it every week. But posters here esay get a big bodied midfielder and it's problem solved. Sorry to burst your bubble but big bodied midfielder don't fix every problem.

Play the game again next week and get ready for the same result.

Sometimes the opposition is just better. Get used to it. We are rebuilding after all.

Can somebody explain why we passed on Xavier Richards during trade week?

Martin does it every week.

All this Martin crap is going too far. Yes he wasn't tagged but does anyone appreciate how bloody good he is!

I mean all this talk like we are scared to tackle him....we don't want to tackle him. I mean seriously?

He is an elite player who is abnormally strong through the core. We have an undersized mid field group and played 6 new players and had lots of under 21 year old. What do you expect.

He has perfected a technique that the majority of opponents can't deal with hence why he uses it every week. But posters here esay get a big bodied midfielder and it's problem solved. Sorry to burst your bubble but big bodied midfielder don't fix every problem.

Play the game again next week and get ready for the same result.

Sometimes the opposition is just better. Get used to it. We are rebuilding after all.

If you watched how we approached him you would see our players tried to corral rather than tackle him, River Rat observed Gibbs lineup  near Martin then duck shoved the job onto a younger player. when he should have taken the job on.
There was some push and shove with Vlastuin I think it was and our blokes all came in then left real quick when Martin arrived including Casboult...how many more examples do you need?
I cant think of one successful tackle being laid on Martin....not one....we have an undersized mid field....why?......Richmond are a non finals team and have been for a while which means the good tams are dealing with and tackling Martin fine...as Leigh Matthews said when he coached Brisbane...if it bleeds you can kill it".....
What example does it set to younger players when some senior players dont want to put it on the line.....would Luke Hodge or Jordan Lewis back off, or a Josh Kennedy(swans), or Libba..?
Opposition better???.....get used to it.???...been doing  that since 1995, how about the club telling the players to harden the f#$k up and dont embarrass the Navy Blue jumper ....young blokes and Matt Wright excused..

Don't know about everyone else, but I for one am getting pretty sick of knowing our season is over by the end of the first game. In this case it was over by mid way through the first quarter.

I'm not expecting to win the premiership, but for fu*ks sake, I wish this f*cking football club would give me something to get excited about. Just one passage of play that blows me away will do. Jesus, is that too much to ask?

All I see is fumbling, missed targets (most are easy 2-3 metre handballs and 15 metre kicks) and an inability to separate from a defender to give our players up field an option. When was the last time you saw any forward lead up and have a couple of metres on a defender?

I am at a loss how half our players managed to get to this level. Most I'm sure would stuggle at VFL level with the skills they display.

Oh btw, Gibbs and Murphy are a joke. Absolute travesty that they were picked at number one in the draft. I wish they'd both just f*ck off from the club. We'd be in a much better position without them. Zero leadership, zero heart and zero everything. Both a total waste of space, both on the list and cap space, of which they take too much of, for very little return.

 Hear Hear  Spanner!!!

Martin does it every week.

All this Martin crap is going too far. Yes he wasn't tagged but does anyone appreciate how bloody good he is!

I mean all this talk like we are scared to tackle him....we don't want to tackle him. I mean seriously?

He is an elite player who is abnormally strong through the core. We have an undersized mid field group and played 6 new players and had lots of under 21 year old. What do you expect.

He has perfected a technique that the majority of opponents can't deal with hence why he uses it every week. But posters here esay get a big bodied midfielder and it's problem solved. Sorry to burst your bubble but big bodied midfielder don't fix every problem.

Play the game again next week and get ready for the same result.

Sometimes the opposition is just better. Get used to it. We are rebuilding after all.

"If it bleeds, you can kill it"

If you watched how we approached him you would see our players tried to corral rather than tackle him, River Rat observed Gibbs lineup  near Martin then duck shoved the job onto a younger player. when he should have taken the job on.
There was some push and shove with Vlastuin I think it was and our blokes all came in then left real quick when Martin arrived including Casboult...how many more examples do you need?
I cant think of one successful tackle being laid on Martin....not one....we have an undersized mid field....why?......Richmond are a non finals team and have been for a while which means the good tams are dealing with and tackling Martin fine...as Leigh Matthews said when he coached Brisbane...if it bleeds you can kill it".....
What example does it set to younger players when some senior players dont want to put it on the line.....would Luke Hodge or Jordan Lewis back off, or a Josh Kennedy(swans), or Libba..?
Opposition better???.....get used to it.???...been doing  that since 1995, how about the club telling the players to harden the f#$k up and dont embarrass the Navy Blue jumper ....young blokes and Matt Wright excused..

I get it EB and i like you get frustrated watching them every week. But when the emotion subsides I keep telling myself we are rebuilding. It's a tough comp and when you throw 20 plus players out in 2 years and replace them with inexperienced unknowns toughness at the contest is a trait you won't see consistanly.

And after all our last 'tough' players we had in a while in robbo, bell and touhy were all traded out and I can't remember too many on here in tears when they left. Can't have it both ways.

We are rebuilding. We all agreed to invest in youth to trade out older players and build from the ground up.

What you asking for is for harder tougher and more commited players. Swans, hawks and GWS have them in spades. But sadly we are not them and won't be for many years to come. Yes we have had 20plus years of pain and like it or not get ready for a few more before being competitive again.

Your points are valid just not valid at our stage in a rebuild imo.

All I see is fumbling, missed targets (most are easy 2-3 metre handballs and 15 metre kicks) and an inability to separate from a defender to give our players up field an option. When was the last time you saw any forward lead up and have a couple of metres on a defender?
(http://All I see is fumbling, missed targets (most are easy 2-3 metre handballs and 15 metre kicks) and an inability to separate from a defender to give our players up field an option. When was the last time you saw any forward lead up and have a couple of metres on a defender?)

Would like to argue but sadly our boys make silly basic, u/12 errors time and time again.

And the younger blokes are probably less culpable than most of out 75+ gamers.....

Tend to agree Murphy and Gibbs choose too often for my liking.

Can somebody explain why we passed on Xavier Richards during trade week?

Largely because he's crap.

Largely because he's crap.

Certainly no better an option than Andrejs E.

Agree. But that's more a reflection of this forum than young Jack. I'm in the "undecided" camp as far as JS is concerned.

I wonder if Bolts feels a bit of pressure to play him, regardless of how he performs ? Partly because of his old man and partly because he's already a crowd favourite - every time he goes near it, they go off.

Not sure if you blokes are taking the pi55 or not.
Jack is clearly our best forward... That's not to say he is an elite player or anything, but of our forwards he reads the play best, clearly the highest work rate in the  forward line, no one leads or works harder off the ball... And is a fair kick and a good mark. We have absolutely nothing up forward, and I reckon most teams in the comp would be happy to have Jack on their list. Unfortunately we have to pin our hopes each week on a 19yo kid with the body of a 16 or 17yo kid, who competes much more impressively then he would be expected to at any other club.

Jack's enthusiastic and cocky, and he works hard, and that's fine. Being the No1 forward in our team is not hard, and in my view is possibly a dubious honor.

I like having him in the team, but the amount of pumping of his tires is out of whack to his actual ability IMO. 

I know it's early days, and he may develop into a beauty. But I'd rather wait and see for now.

Jack's enthusiastic and cocky, and he works hard, and that's fine. Being the No1 forward in our team is not hard, and in my view is possibly a dubious honor.

I like having him in the team, but the amount of pumping of his tires is out of whack to his actual ability IMO. 

I know it's early days, and he may develop into a beauty. But I'd rather wait and see for now.

Makes it even with Joe Daniher then...Lloyd and all the other EFC faithful have pumped Daniher up so much he could float away into orbit...
Think you have to give the fans some hope and the Silvagni name is associated with success so we need to spruik him like Essendon have done with Daniher...

Makes it even with Joe Daniher then...Lloyd and all the other EFC faithful have pumped Daniher up so much he could float away into orbit...
Think you have to give the fans some hope and the Silvagni name is associated with success so we need to spruik him like Essendon have done with Daniher...

I love a good spruik, so I have no problem with that. As long as it's understood that's what it is.

The Silvagnis are not only CFC Royalty, they are AFL Royalty. There isn't another family that comes close IMO.

Re: Young Jack

I think he's great for our club on several fronts.

The return of the name is one. The return he's shown for our investment - pick 50 something was it? Has come in as one of the youngest, held his own, and bagged a couple. He also plays with such passion. That has to inspire his team mates, and give supporters a little lift on what will be a long road.

Don't know of another player that offers all that at such an early stage in his career. Whilst no guarantee, he certainly shows potential to be a mainstay.

I'm rapt we've got Jack aboard. Watching him run around reminds me of his dad so much and of our glory days - a ray of hope for the future. We need something to cling on to atm.

I'm rapt we've got Jack aboard. Watching him run around reminds me of his dad so much and of our glory days - a ray of hope for the future. We need something to cling on to atm.

The other good thing about having Jack on board, is a kid called Ben!

" (June 2016)  Ben Silvagni, 16, also available for the 2018 draft, will likely play school football until his final TAC Cup year.

He kicked eight goals — five in the first quarter — in a recent Xavier Year 10 game

He already is 195cm — his father is 194cm — and has an exceptional tank.

Ben been receiving coaching from Hawthorn premiership captain Luke Hodge, who is part of the Xavier program.

2023

HF:  J Silvagni        B Silvagni       C Curnow

F:   Pickett              McKay         (Small forward pick up)

For a strong long term list you can't rely solely on early picks becoming stars. Jack being later pick is a positive as his early signs Seem to point to him being a regular AFL player.

Been a long time since we have had a pick outside the top 20 that goes on to be a 200 plus game player. As we hopefully improve in the rebuild we are less likely to snare bunches of early options so your mid and late picks become vital to get the depth you need to be at the top for a sustained time.

All the good teams have several mid to late picks that become very important players.

All the good teams have several mid to late picks that become very important players.

Simmo  45    Denis A 46     Sam Jacobs 72 (ouch!)   Nick Duigan 70     Sam Rowe 44   Jack Silvagni  53  And that's all folks!!

first dissent i read about bolts

"he going to have to deliver more than footy cliches"

Simmo  45    Denis A 46     Sam Jacobs 72 (ouch!)   Nick Duigan 70     Sam Rowe 44   Jack Silvagni  53  And that's all folks!!

Are you sure?

So the 2017 Carlton list we have 4 players in that bracket?

That in itself sums up where the bulk of our problems are.

Quietly confident we will add Fisher and Mccreadie in a few years.

 

Are you sure?

So the 2017 Carlton list we have 4 players in that bracket?

That in itself sums up where the bulk of our problems are.

Quietly confident we will add Fisher and Mccreadie in a few years.

Besides a few elevated rookies, yes. 

first dissent i read about bolts

"he going to have to deliver more than footy cliches"

I agree with that assessment.

As supporters we require progress, not perfection. We should look to build on the 7 wins last year and not
Look to go backwards. How is everyone ok with us finishing on anything less then 8 wins this year.

The world has gone mad!!!

I agree with that assessment.

As supporters we require progress, not perfection. We should look to build on the 7 wins last year and not
Look to go backwards. How is everyone ok with us finishing on anything less then 8 wins this year.

The world has gone mad!!!

The problem is that people measure "progress" differently, or have different ideas about what constitutes progress. Some people believe that progress is a simple linear movement, where each season we have more wins, better ladder position etc., leading to a flag. Others believe that if we are "on the right path" (whatever that means), then history shows that successful teams (in recent times think Hawks and Cats) will be up and down in the early years of their "rebuild", then stabilize and move on to have sustained success.

It's ok - as Chomksy said, outside of a very limited set of facts and knowledge, humanity doesn't really understand much about anything, so you can have whatever opinion or theory you like. The discussion and the questions are where it's at.

The problem is that people measure "progress" differently, or have different ideas about what constitutes progress. Some people believe that progress is a simple linear movement, where each season we have more wins, better ladder position etc., leading to a flag. Others believe that if we are "on the right path" (whatever that means), then history shows that successful teams (in recent times think Hawks and Cats) will be up and down in the early years of their "rebuild", then stabilize and move on to have sustained success.

It's ok - as Chomksy said, outside of a very limited set of facts and knowledge, humanity doesn't really understand much about anything, so you can have whatever opinion or theory you like. The discussion and the questions are where it's at.

That's true and it's why I don't completely dismiss the possibility we could go backwards in terms of ladder position.
I still feel though that given the list we have this year should be a 'step forward' year.

The real test is how a club holds it's nerve in the down times.
Folk are saying that this time it's different and all parties have bought into the rebuild.....but that's yet to be tested under the pressure of continual poor performance.
We won't know whether we can all stay the course until we feel that pressure.
Some will drop off!
Cracks and criticism will appear.
Are we strong enough to resist those pressures or will the panic button be pressed.
Will some crazy billionaire think they can do a better job and turn the whole thing upside down again.

It's a 'wait and see'...and a testing year.

Simmo  45    Denis A 46     Sam Jacobs 72 (ouch!)   Nick Duigan 70     Sam Rowe 44   Jack Silvagni  53  And that's all folks!!

This is the main reason we are where we are, and our recent first round selections haven't been much better apart from Cripps (Weitering too but it's hard to stuff up pick 1).
No club could butcher the draft for as long as we have and possibly hope for success.

Simmo  45    Denis A 46     Sam Jacobs 72 (ouch!)   Nick Duigan 70     Sam Rowe 44   Jack Silvagni  53  And that's all folks!!

Betts
Garlett
Jacobs (was a rookie, the 72 is an elevation number)
White
Casboult
Byrne
Sheehan
Ed Curnow

....all rookies

Betts
Garlett
Jacobs (was a rookie, the 72 is an elevation number)
White
Casboult
Byrne
Sheehan
Ed Curnow

....all rookies

Jamison was a rookie

Jamison was a rookie

So was Bret Thornton, and so were Matt Priddis, Matthew Boyd and Dean Cox.
Which is all very well, but the great majority of the cream comes from the National Draft and that's what we've made a mess of.

Betts
Garlett
Jacobs (was a rookie, the 72 is an elevation number)
White
Casboult
Byrne
Sheehan
Ed Curnow

....all rookies

Betts was a PSD but, yes, same thing, not in the main draft.

Jamison was a rookie

As was Carrots, Setanta, Joesph, Thornton.

The problem is that people measure "progress" differently, or have different ideas about what constitutes progress. Some people believe that progress is a simple linear movement, where each season we have more wins, better ladder position etc., leading to a flag. Others believe that if we are "on the right path" (whatever that means), then history shows that successful teams (in recent times think Hawks and Cats) will be up and down in the early years of their "rebuild", then stabilize and move on to have sustained success.

It's ok - as Chomksy said, outside of a very limited set of facts and knowledge, humanity doesn't really understand much about anything, so you can have whatever opinion or theory you like. The discussion and the questions are where it's at.

Our progression is aligned with other teams regression and progression...we can improve but it looks like the majority of the other poorer teams have also improved....

If you look at the pre-season predictions from the "experts" relative to the 1st Rnd results, and extend them seasonally, more than 50% of the so-called "experts" got it wrong!

Not sure if you blokes are taking the pi55 or not.
Jack is clearly our best forward... That's not to say he is an elite player or anything, but of our forwards he reads the play best, clearly the highest work rate in the  forward line, no one leads or works harder off the ball... And is a fair kick and a good mark. We have absolutely nothing up forward, and I reckon most teams in the comp would be happy to have Jack on their list. Unfortunately we have to pin our hopes each week on a 19yo kid with the body of a 16 or 17yo kid, who competes much more impressively then he would be expected to at any other club.

The key point here is forward. Good football nous and works hard, which means he can be elusive. I'm going to get shot down here, but if Jack is played up the ground and is in a situation where the ball is live, whoever he is competing with will most likely run off him with ease. He is simply too slow to play up the ground.

Jack is clearly our best forward...

I'm assuming that statement comes as the exclusion of Weitering, who looks to be potentially our best player pretty much everywhere he applies himself.

The key point here is forward. Good football nous and works hard, which means he can be elusive. I'm going to get shot down here, but if Jack is played up the ground and is in a situation where the ball is live, whoever he is competing with will most likely run off him with ease. He is simply too slow to play up the ground.

jack had four shots at goals for two goals two behinds. Her set up two other goals of which one was a pass to Weitering. Not sure what game you were watching but Jack played up the ground. Weitering, Casboult and Charlie were our deepest forwards most of the time. Jack was born in late December and scrapped into the 2015 National draft and is 6 weeks older than Sam P-Seton. He has out shown Charlie Cunningham and McKay and many first round picks of his year.

Then again,  you probably would like Blain Boekhorst in the team for his speed. I think not! Give me someone who try's and bleeds for the jumper.

Jack is an absolute steal!!!

Thought Smedts gave us a something. Exceeded my expectations am deathly would be good to see him get an extended run.

Agree shadesy....thought his first quarter was excellent and his use of the footy & decision making is actually pretty sound, seems to be a lot leaner than he was at Geelong or do the their hoops just make them look more soild ???

It's the water down thee Brettie!  ;)

Agree shadesy....thought his first quarter was excellent and his use of the footy & decision making is actually pretty sound, seems to be a lot leaner than he was at Geelong or do the their hoops just make them look more soild ???

Agree Brettie. If he can stay on the park, get some confidence in his body, once he gets used to his new environment, he could be very handy.

Smedts was reasonable and looked after the footy well but I didnt think he did much with the ball in terms of attacking footy...certainly deserves more games especially when you look at what we have to replace him, more of a fill in player for a few years while the kids develop.
Looks a bit too lean to me...

Smedts......Looks a bit too lean to me...

Agree EB1, can see him getting knocked off the ball without much effort.

jack had four shots at goals for two goals two behinds. Her set up two other goals of which one was a pass to Weitering. Not sure what game you were watching but Jack played up the ground. Weitering, Casboult and Charlie were our deepest forwards most of the time. Jack was born in late December and scrapped into the 2015 National draft and is 6 weeks older than Sam P-Seton. He has out shown Charlie Cunningham and McKay and many first round picks of his year.

Then again,  you probably would like Blain Boekhorst in the team for his speed. I think not! Give me someone who try's and bleeds for the jumper.

Jack is an absolute steal!!!

No argument with most of what you've said, as I said he is a forward. Wasn't questioning his value , just stating where I thought he was best suited. I have high hopes for McKay.

Yes I saw him up the ground. There was 2 passages of play one where he went to chase and 2 opponents took off, and another on the wing where he was being run down (admittedly he had to gather the ball) but the other guys had no trouble catching him.

Everything has just about been covered I reckon. For the life of me though, I don't get how players that reach this level can miss so many short handballs. I'm talking 2-3 metres. It's so damn frustrating as a fan. Time after time attacking opportunities come unstuck due to errrant hand passing.

Did you includ the two passages of play that he step around two Richmond mid fielders in traffic - he is a forward but will play high half forward.

Everything has just about been covered I reckon. For the life of me though, I don't get how players that reach this level can miss so many short handballs. I'm talking 2-3 metres. It's so damn frustrating as a fan. Time after time attacking opportunities come unstuck due to errrant hand passing.

I think it happens because players move so quickly.  Think about it, you hit the ball in a direction, and your teamate is in motion, you actually need to aim a little in front.  Whilst handballing, an opponent nudges you, and you move your hands slightly in the motion resulting in a slight change of angle, and also a less clean hit.

Its amplified because so few players actually make errors, but at the same time they all do it from time to time for the same reasons.

At the end of the day, this is what elite football looks like.  Smallest margin for error.

The focus on Levi's hands is here because of his kicking.  He shanks as many as anyone else does when handballing in traffic.  Kicking for goal is a different phenominon altogether.

Everything has just about been covered I reckon. For the life of me though, I don't get how players that reach this level can miss so many short handballs. I'm talking 2-3 metres. It's so damn frustrating as a fan. Time after time attacking opportunities come unstuck due to errrant hand passing.

The difference between elite players and the also-rans are that the elite players can execute well when under intense pressure. Most players go OK at training.

I had a look over the replay last night and I've come to a couple of conclusions;

Firstly, it looks to me like we had a few blokes playing who were either not fit or carrying injuries, in Rnd 1 that is not a good sign! :o

Secondly, I suspect our pre-season tactic of not using the available bench rotations is bitting us on the ar5e! Our blokes looked buggered by Qtr time, and that was reflected in the skills.  :(

Finally, when you have such a young list, how the heck does not using the rotations help them with skills or experience? We should have had them on and off the pitch at every opportunity and micro-managing their development and education.

I had a look over the replay last night and I've come to a couple of conclusions;

Firstly, it looks to me like we had a few blokes playing who were either not fit or carrying injuries, in Rnd 1 that is not a good sign! :o

Secondly, I suspect our pre-season tactic of not using the available bench rotations is bitting us on the ar5e! Our blokes looked buggered by Qtr time, and that was reflected in the skills.  :(

Finally, when you have such a young list, how the heck does not using the rotations help them with skills or experience? We should have had them on and off the pitch at every opportunity and micro-managing their development and education.

What works at the Dawks should work everywhere else shouldn't it? :o ;)

What works at the Dawks should work everywhere else shouldn't it? :o ;)

Ahh yes, but the Dawks have a heap of experience surrounding a handful of kids, not the opposite! ::)