Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: Lods on September 18, 2022, 07:58:31 pm

Title: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Lods on September 18, 2022, 07:58:31 pm
Stop the count we'll take the second and equal third. ;D

(It'll be tough for Cripps not picking up the 3 in the Richmond game)
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: blueday on September 18, 2022, 08:09:22 pm
how does a mid have 30+ and 3 goals and not get the three votes! it's got Williams 40+ for one vote all over it!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on September 18, 2022, 08:14:12 pm
Andrew Brayshaw getting more votes than predicted, he's almost a certainty.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 18, 2022, 08:39:07 pm
The poor 2nd half of the season from the team will cost Cripps a brownlow.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 18, 2022, 08:42:06 pm
The poor 2nd half of the season from the team will cost Cripps a brownlow.
Agree....Neale has to be favourite from here imo...Oliver and Petracca should cancel each other out...
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Sexybronco on September 18, 2022, 08:51:12 pm
Who’s on the Carlton table, there’s one I don’t recognise, is it Boyd?
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 18, 2022, 09:01:57 pm
Who’s on the Carlton table, there’s one I don’t recognise, is it Boyd?
I think Boyd was next to Charlie.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Sexybronco on September 18, 2022, 09:03:20 pm
I think Boyd was next to Charlie.
Just skulked a beer when Cornow got 3 vs Sydney
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: laj on September 18, 2022, 09:10:20 pm
how does a mid have 30+ and 3 goals and not get the three votes! it's got Williams 40+ for one vote all over it!

Williams got no votes that day. Lost the Brownlow  by one vote.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: laj on September 18, 2022, 09:11:17 pm
Stop the count we'll take the second and equal third. ;D

(It'll be tough for Cripps not picking up the 3 in the Richmond game)
That hurts bad in a close count.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 18, 2022, 09:22:58 pm
I reckon Crippa's polling will reflect our second half of the year unfortunately.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 18, 2022, 09:29:55 pm
if predictions from here are accurate....
30: Miller
27: Neale
26: Cripps
25: Brayshaw
24: Oliver
23: Petracca
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on September 18, 2022, 09:38:37 pm
Whoever that is skulling beers on our table when curnow gets a vote is making a dickhead of himself and unfortunately the club
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on September 18, 2022, 09:39:34 pm
Cripps has now also polled in two games unexpectedly. 

I've not much faith in the predictors, they get roughly the right totals, but if the votes are not in the right games how can we take it seriously?
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: shawny on September 18, 2022, 09:45:16 pm
Whoever that is skulling beers on our table when curnow gets a vote is making a dickhead of himself and unfortunately the club

He is a close mate of Charlie. Not a carlton player
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Lods on September 18, 2022, 09:59:40 pm
I've turned off the telecast >:( ...I'm just following the progress on AFL.com.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 18, 2022, 10:03:37 pm
miller      22   7   29
cripps      23   6   29
neale      24   3   27
brayshaw      24   0   24
oliver      20   3   23
petracca      19   2   21

Current, predicted, total
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Mantis on September 18, 2022, 10:04:23 pm
Cripps has had an awesome year. Close but no cigar.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 18, 2022, 10:06:51 pm
Keys was BOG by a mile in the Adel loss
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 18, 2022, 10:06:59 pm
Cripps has had an awesome year. Close but no cigar.

As above, 3 votes in the last round expected makes him equal winner
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 18, 2022, 10:07:15 pm
Crippa 3 v Crows 👍
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: shawny on September 18, 2022, 10:07:34 pm
Cripps has had an awesome year. Close but no cigar.

Nah mate. Our man is right in this.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: laj on September 18, 2022, 10:10:26 pm
Cripps currently paying $1.12 to win it.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 18, 2022, 10:10:54 pm
Keys was BOG by a mile in the Adel loss

Yeah, nah.

Cripps had 41 touches (21 contested) and 12 clearances. 5 tackles, 5 R50's, 6 I50's

Keays had 21, (6 contested), 0 clearances, 1 tackles, 0 R50's, 7 I50's.....and 3 goals.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Mantis on September 18, 2022, 10:18:36 pm
As above, 3 votes in the last round expected makes him equal winner


Can’t hold my breath. When you lose you don’t get the rewards.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: laj on September 18, 2022, 10:19:26 pm
Cripps should win or tie it from here unless the umpires are blind.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Micky0 on September 18, 2022, 10:22:11 pm
HOLLLLY crap
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: laj on September 18, 2022, 10:22:25 pm
Yes!!!!!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Micky0 on September 18, 2022, 10:22:34 pm
Yesssssss 🙌
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Mantis on September 18, 2022, 10:22:54 pm
Wow. I am crying like a little baby. I am so happy.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 18, 2022, 10:23:12 pm
A Coleman and a Brownlow 2022!!
We must be nearly there....
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 18, 2022, 10:23:29 pm
A win at last......well done to the skipper...
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on September 18, 2022, 10:24:34 pm
Yep, well done Cripps.

He basically polled in three games that he wasn't expected to poll in, and that's the tell in these results.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: shawny on September 18, 2022, 10:24:37 pm
Omg I’m so bloody happy. Love this bloke.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: dodge on September 18, 2022, 10:24:52 pm
We won a close one at the end of the season! Great effort Crippa.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: crashlander on September 18, 2022, 10:24:56 pm
Crippa! You beauty!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 18, 2022, 10:25:00 pm
Too fat eh?
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Lods on September 18, 2022, 10:25:15 pm
Well what about that.
Picked up some where he wasn't expected to, but missed on a few votes in games like the Richmond, where he should have got the three.
Congratulations.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 18, 2022, 10:25:31 pm
Are those essendon blokes still laughing at us that we picked up this bloke?
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 18, 2022, 10:26:09 pm
Here's to Crippa 🥂🍻
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: cookie2 on September 18, 2022, 10:26:34 pm
Ripper Crippa!
Well done skipper! 😄👍
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: PaulP on September 18, 2022, 10:26:48 pm
Fantastic effort. Well done to Cripps. Now has a Brownlow to go with his MVP. One thing missing.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: crashlander on September 18, 2022, 10:27:24 pm
Are those essendon blokes still laughing at us that we picked up this bloke?
Too slow. Can't run.
But can win a Brownlow!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 18, 2022, 10:27:32 pm
The beginning of the Voss Effect
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: crashlander on September 18, 2022, 10:27:46 pm
Now for the Premiership!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: crashlander on September 18, 2022, 10:29:15 pm
I still find it hard to comprehend. Joins his Jim Park for a great 2022!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: blueboys_1 on September 18, 2022, 10:30:05 pm
Well done crippa. What a fantastic year you have had. 2 our of 3 this year, dare to dream next year.
GO BLUESSSSSS.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Mantis on September 18, 2022, 10:33:48 pm
Tough guy that is as down to earth as any. I hope Walsh eventually wins one also.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: crashlander on September 18, 2022, 10:35:26 pm
Considering how he missed so much pre-season and started so relatively unfit, it was a pretty good effort to get the votes he did. Reckon he'll make it to the Big One!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: madbluboy on September 18, 2022, 10:35:38 pm
Hamish want to keep talking about the dark days?
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 18, 2022, 10:43:29 pm
Brownlow Farken Medalist P Cripps, you little beauty.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 18, 2022, 10:45:10 pm
He spoke well, was humble, and deserves a premiership for being so loyal... I think all supporters would respect him.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 18, 2022, 10:45:26 pm
Hamish want to keep talking about the dark days?
Hamish started tearing up when Cripps was talking about his media issues.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 18, 2022, 10:46:14 pm
Lucky we've signed him up until 2027, i think his price just went up.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 18, 2022, 10:49:07 pm
Vossy didn't look too impressed. I realise he may prefer more private celebrations but geeez... Looked like he was keeping an eye on someone sitting on his right. Who knows.

Hope he enjoys a well earned celebration with our rippa skippa
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 18, 2022, 10:50:35 pm
Charlie wins the coleman
Cripps wins the charlie
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 18, 2022, 10:55:29 pm
A Coleman and a Brownlow 2022!!
We must be nearly there....
Should inspire a bit more effort from a few players hearing their humble skipper tell them what the club and its players mean to him and that little bit extra could be the difference in the next season or two culminating in success and a premiership flag.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 18, 2022, 10:56:34 pm
We had 3 in the top 30 👏👏👏
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: madbluboy on September 18, 2022, 11:00:19 pm
Vossy didn't look too impressed. I realise he may prefer more private celebrations but geeez... Looked like he was keeping an eye on someone sitting on his right. Who knows.

Hope he enjoys a well earned celebration with our rippa skippa

Charlie looked in form.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Micky0 on September 18, 2022, 11:04:44 pm
Woah some very nice words about our Skipper by Tom Browne - friendly, most polite and biggest giver of time is Crippa, to the media of the AFL players

Bloody champion 👏🏽
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 18, 2022, 11:05:05 pm
Charlie looked in form.

I could only see a player with a mo nearby ? NM Zurhaar
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Lods on September 18, 2022, 11:06:40 pm
Vossy didn't look too impressed. I realise he may prefer more private celebrations but geeez... Looked like he was keeping an eye on someone sitting on his right. Who knows.

Hope he enjoys a well earned celebration with our rippa skippa

I think Voss may have a word to Charlie about his choice of guest. ;)
Apparently his mate made a bit of a goose of himself.

"I want to be sober this time next year" said Cripps.
He'll want to be, he'll have a game top play the next weekend. ;D
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on September 18, 2022, 11:07:57 pm
I thought Voss was trying not to tear up !
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 18, 2022, 11:08:15 pm
Charlie's mate I assume it was, acting the fool. I hope they behave and don't give reason to take the shine of Crippa's sterling achievement
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 18, 2022, 11:10:17 pm
I reckon Crippa's polling will reflect our second half of the year unfortunately.
How wrong was I!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: shawny on September 18, 2022, 11:20:16 pm
I think Voss may have a word to Charlie about his choice of guest. ;)
Apparently his mate made a bit of a goose of himself.

The rabbit ears on Charlie he did when crippa was on stage was childish and looked cringy. Charlie is a different cat i get it but hope he brings a person with a little more class next time.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: rocky on September 18, 2022, 11:24:39 pm
Fantastic result and well deserved. Officially in the "champion" category.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Thryleon on September 18, 2022, 11:47:17 pm
Lucky we've signed him up until 2027, i think his price just went up.
I think you were talking about trading him last season....  we are very lucky to have crippa.  He's a ripper!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: stevie-poo on September 19, 2022, 12:09:55 am
Bloody Brilliant!!!! On'ya Crippa!!!!!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on September 19, 2022, 01:12:06 am
If we had a better team earlier in his career this might have been number two or three. Great reward for carrying the entire club on his shoulders for so long. Nice to see an embrace with big nick on his way to the podium too
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: pinot on September 19, 2022, 01:32:11 am
The legend continues to grow
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 19, 2022, 06:42:36 am
I think Voss may have a word to Charlie about his choice of guest. ;)
Apparently his mate made a bit of a goose of himself.

"I want to be sober this time next year" said Cripps.
He'll want to be, he'll have a game top play the next weekend. ;D
It didnt look that bad to me, hardly Fevola like. At the end of the day, its a footballers night, not dinner with the King. They’re just lads enjoying what would have been an exciting night for their skipper. Lets not judge Charlie or his mate too harshly for it.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: BluePhantom on September 19, 2022, 07:05:24 am
Coleman and a Brownlow
The Vosswagen is gathering momentum...
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Thryleon on September 19, 2022, 07:39:59 am
It didnt look that bad to me, hardly Fevola like. At the end of the day, its a footballers night, not dinner with the King. They’re just lads enjoying what would have been an exciting night for their skipper. Lets not judge Charlie or his mate too harshly for it.
his mate drank a lot but he was hardly a disgrace. 
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: townsendcalling on September 19, 2022, 09:21:02 am
"AFL boss Gill McLachlan has said he is “very agitated” by the controversial league Appeals Board decision that ultimately gave Patrick Cripps Brownlow glory."

Two words for Gill...... and the second one is OFF!!!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: madbluboy on September 19, 2022, 09:24:14 am
"AFL boss Gill McLachlan has said he is “very agitated” by the controversial league Appeals Board decision that ultimately gave Patrick Cripps Brownlow glory."

Two words for Gill...... and the second one is OFF!!!

Old news from.a couple of weeks ago the HeraldSun have just made a headline.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on September 19, 2022, 09:50:50 am
It's interesting, apparently more players polled in losing teams in this years Brownlow than ever before, apparently the trend about polling if you win is only a very recent trend. Maybe they mean the AFL era. The report sounded to me like a disgruntled punter.

Before the two or more umpires it was quite common for players to poll well in losing sides. This seems to be confirmed by my memory, guys like Skilton, Harvey, Stewart, Bedford or Murray it was pretty common for lowly VFL teams to claim the Brownlow. Then the AFL era changed it, and teams had to be winning before a player had a chance. But it feels to me like it was the AFL era that was delivering the artificial results, not the past.

I was chatting with a guy at the weekend who is connected with umpire development, he made an interesting comment about the pending changes and the long term trends. He said the AFL have worked out that the best umpires are not always AFL capable, not because of the decision making but because they are physically unable to keep up with play. He said this is a big driving force in the pending changes towards more umpires. You'll basically have a panel of top class umpires capable of officiating multiple games each and every weekend. I'm sure that will change the Brownlow voting as well.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 19, 2022, 09:58:50 am
"AFL boss Gill McLachlan has said he is “very agitated” by the controversial league Appeals Board decision that ultimately gave Patrick Cripps Brownlow glory."

Two words for Gill...... and the second one is OFF!!!
Yep, and I loved Petracca getting screwed off with Gils mispronunciation of his name. Having an Italian background, I love when young people of Euro heritage take the time to correct poor pronunciation of names, it shows attention to detail and that they care about their heritage. Not like peanuts such as Montagna (phonetically Mon-tun-ya) and Rochele (Ro-ke-le) from Adelaide who open tell people to pronounce their name the wrong way. Ricciardo (Rich-ardo) is another imbecile. Its not that hard fellas, have some pride.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 19, 2022, 09:59:26 am
Old news from.a couple of weeks ago the HeraldSun have just made a headline.
Fargum
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on September 19, 2022, 09:59:41 am
Old news from.a couple of weeks ago the HeraldSun have just made a headline.
It's just Flubbo's CheatsFC dominated crew trying hard to throw mud and steal the focus, some of them even went with a "Cripps steals Brownlow" headline for a short period of time but it has been retracted.

Just shows you how low these filthy cheats can be, and why I assert you have to question everything they publish, make them justify the claims they make before you accept any part of them. They are neither professional or impartial, in the Murdoch era they are basically opinionated and syndicated bloggers who deserve little to no respect!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Baggers on September 19, 2022, 10:04:39 am
It's just Flubbo's CheatsFC dominated crew trying hard to throw mud and steal the focus, some of them even went with a "Cripps steals Brownlow" headline for a short period of time but it has been retracted.

Just shows you how low these filthy cheats can be, and why I assert you have to question everything they publish, make them justify the claims they make before you accept any part of them.

So glad you also noticed this, Spotted One. I nearly fell off the sofa when I read that late last night. Couldn't believe it. The Age headline was 'Cripps Wins Brownlow'... HUN, 'Cripps Steals Brownlow.' They owe the AFL, CFC, Crippa and the footy public an apology. If there is one media outlet (or is that 'sewerage' outlet?) that can cheapen any event, anywhere in the world, it's the HUN.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: townsendcalling on September 19, 2022, 10:09:36 am
Given his current CV and his potential over the life of his current contract, where might he rank in the leadership company of Nicholls, Kernahan, and Judd??
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on September 19, 2022, 10:18:16 am
Given his current CV and his potential over the life of his current contract, where might he rank in the leadership company of Nicholls, Kernahan, and Judd??
Personally, Nicholls was in a different class, right up there with Barassi as far as I am concerned, they didn't just dominate themselves but they made those around them better. Blokes would go into battle for them.

Actually, to me I think what I can see Voss bringing to Carlton is vaguely similar, but I'm in no illusion that it's Voss driving that change and that the players have bought in.

I'd probably rank Cripps up there with Judd, what they bring on game day is quite similar in terms of influence, at their very best they have no peer. But they also have that shortfall, no matter how good they may be as individuals they live or die by those around them. As such they are more about individual brilliance.

Sticks was a bit different, a blend of both types, which is why he is so highly regarded.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: PaulP on September 19, 2022, 10:27:49 am
Yep, and I loved Petracca getting screwed off with Gils mispronunciation of his name. Having an Italian background, I love when young people of Euro heritage take the time to correct poor pronunciation of names, it shows attention to detail and that they care about their heritage. Not like peanuts such as Montagna (phonetically Mon-tun-ya) and Rochele (Ro-ke-le) from Adelaide who open tell people to pronounce their name the wrong way. Ricciardo (Rich-ardo) is another imbecile. Its not that hard fellas, have some pride.

I agree, but maybe we're just a couple of grumpy old Italian dudes. Scotty "Campa-relli" is another one that did my head in.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Baggers on September 19, 2022, 10:34:18 am
Just watched Crippa's acceptance speech. All class. And what stood out in his well chosen words was how much he spoke about others... humility.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 19, 2022, 10:34:33 am
Voss is the best leader I have seen and what a player he was, you know the standards he would want from his players would be next level.
It would break or make some players and I reckon it helped drag Cripps from despair to a Brownlow and Voss would get some enrichment from that which hopefully flows onto the rest of the playing group.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 19, 2022, 11:22:19 am
I agree, but maybe we're just a couple of grumpy old Italian dudes. Scotty "Campa-relli" is another one that did my head in.
Truedat. Its not just us grumpy old Italian dudes though, I have heard H's mum on more than tell media how to pronounce their name (Muk-eye). Also heard the Fogarty's say how theirs are prounced (one is Foe-garty, the other Fo-garty)
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 19, 2022, 11:25:55 am
"AFL boss Gill McLachlan has said he is “very agitated” by the controversial league Appeals Board decision that ultimately gave Patrick Cripps Brownlow glory."

Two words for Gill...... and the second one is OFF!!!

That sounds like a self entitled, jealous schoolyard stab in the back!

I've got 2 words for that. Grow up.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 19, 2022, 11:26:36 am
Just watched Crippa's acceptance speech. All class. And what stood out in his well chosen words was how much he spoke about others... humility.
A class act indeed, summed up very well by Tony Jones from Channel 9:
From the HS
Jones went on to praise the winner Patrick Cripps as a “remarkable young man” and said not a single person in the room had begrudged the Carlton star the honour.

“He had a big year,” Jones said.

“I think the thing about Patrick Cripps is it’s the Patrick Cripps off the field that everyone is just so impressed with. He’s a remarkable young man. And the way he spoke about his family, he’s from country WA and from the farm and spoke about how his dad in 2006 and 20007, it was, the era with the big drought how he battled through it.

“Never changed his demeanour. It was absolutely beautiful the way he spoke about his family. They were there to help celebrate with him along with his fiancee. If I guess any sporting administrator would love a list of Patrick Cripps not only because of his football prowess but because of the young man he is. Not a person in the room who he (sic) begrudged him that honour last night.”
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 19, 2022, 11:34:26 am
Voss is the best leader I have seen and what a player he was, you know the standards he would want from his players would be next level.
It would break or make some players and I reckon it helped drag Cripps from despair to a Brownlow and Voss would get some enrichment from that which hopefully flows onto the rest of the playing group.

That has a nice flow. Vossy > Wines > Crippa > Carlton
Could be the special sequence that sets up our next Success
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Lods on September 19, 2022, 11:43:18 am
Cripps is a deserving winner.
I think though it highlights a major flaw in the system.
Except for the hardwork of some legal folk and the backing of the club he could very well have been denied.
There's plenty of 'petty' social media stuff going on today.

The way rules are interpreted these days, especially in relation to a bump in the split second moment of a contest.... the fact that suspension renders you ineligible is no longer as relevant as in the days of the 'free for all'.

The winner of the Brownlow should just be the 'Best' player over the season.
'Fairest' is redundant.
If they're serial transgressors they'll lose enough votes through missing games and do themselves out of the award anyway.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: PaulP on September 19, 2022, 11:45:20 am
Truedat. Its not just us grumpy old Italian dudes though, I have heard H's mum on more than tell media how to pronounce their name (Muk-eye)..........................

Good point. I saw a clip of Harry's mom giving the correct pronunciation at a CFC Mother's Day function a year or two ago.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Thryleon on September 19, 2022, 11:49:17 am
It's interesting, apparently more players polled in losing teams in this years Brownlow than ever before, apparently the trend about polling if you win is only a very recent trend. Maybe they mean the AFL era. The report sounded to me like a disgruntled punter.

Before the two or more umpires it was quite common for players to poll well in losing sides. This seems to be confirmed by my memory, guys like Skilton, Harvey, Stewart, Bedford or Murray it was pretty common for lowly VFL teams to claim the Brownlow. Then the AFL era changed it, and teams had to be winning before a player had a chance. But it feels to me like it was the AFL era that was delivering the artificial results, not the past.

I was chatting with a guy at the weekend who is connected with umpire development, he made an interesting comment about the pending changes and the long term trends. He said the AFL have worked out that the best umpires are not always AFL capable, not because of the decision making but because they are physically unable to keep up with play. He said this is a big driving force in the pending changes towards more umpires. You'll basically have a panel of top class umpires capable of officiating multiple games each and every weekend. I'm sure that will change the Brownlow voting as well.

It makes more sense for the teams that lose to have better individuals in the modern game.  Collingwood epitomise this, they are a death by a thousand cuts team. Their best players are not necessarily amazing footballers by league standards.  Its their worst ones that influence games at the right moments that make the difference.

Rightly or wrongly, Carlton STILL have the issue where there are about 6 or 7 key performers that decide our fate on game day.  We have seen that list grow this season, and a few surprise players stepping up at times to help us get across the line, but we are still very reliant on Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, Docherty, Mckay and Curnow before we get the W.  IF any of those players don't fire, we generally have a tough day at the office. 

Cripps has been an amazing player in a crap team since 2014.  He has been brownlow worthy for at least 3 of those seasons, and missed out purely because we didnt win enough games for him to get the BOG votes, but he was still worthy.  The reasons behind that had more to do with the rest of the team and how bad they were than him. 
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Thryleon on September 19, 2022, 11:51:17 am
Good point. I saw a clip of Harry's mom giving the correct pronunciation at a CFC Mother's Day function a year or two ago.


Personally, I like it, but the majority of people have no hope pronouncing my name even though it is spelt phoenetically.  The Greeks don't have the problem of having difficult characters or too much variance in the spelling, but length seems to cause a tongue twiser where someone who has a grasp on the English language somehow shouldnt have a problem, but still does.

Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Mav on September 19, 2022, 12:01:20 pm
We have a Brownlow Medallist in Cripps, Sam Walsh who finished 4th last year with 30 votes, and the Coleman Medallists from the last 2 years … and we didn’t make the finals.

It’s a bit like when we had Judd & Fev.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Lods on September 19, 2022, 12:31:55 pm
It’s a bit like when we had Judd & Fev.

I think our 'support staff' are probably a little bit better going forward ;)  ;D
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: IvanAwfulbigone on September 19, 2022, 12:38:17 pm
Thoroughly deserved. Spoke so well too!

But I came here to say I was wrong. I wanted him traded. There you go, it’s official - I know NOTHING!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on September 19, 2022, 12:42:29 pm
Thoroughly deserved. Spoke so well too!

But I came here to say I was wrong. I wanted him traded. There you go, it’s official - I know NOTHING!
I think the person who has proved everybody wrong is Voss.

In the past we looked to be suffering constant disunity, many thought it was an insurmountable problem to correct while we retained the same personal, I was also one who thought trading such stars might be the only solution, Voss ( Maybe with a little bit of Cook mixed in ) has proved everybody wrong. It was never about individual ability, and all about collective unity!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: tonyo on September 19, 2022, 01:33:08 pm
We have a Brownlow Medallist in Cripps, Sam Walsh who finished 4th last year with 30 votes, and the Coleman Medallists from the last 2 years … and we didn’t make the finals.

It’s a bit like when we had Judd & Fev.
The big upside to this is we have the main cast in place, we just need to find/develop/import a half-decent support crew and we will be up to our necks in September.  

And a bit of Voss et al influence over a full pre-season might just be the fairy dust.

2021 : Coleman Medal

2022 : Coleman Medal, Brownlow Medal

Let's get the hat-trick next year!

 

Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: WASurfer on September 19, 2022, 01:40:12 pm
Got no doubt that Cripps' win, along with how far Collingwood got this year, will be a big driver going into next season. Cripps and Voss will be urging the players to come back for preseason in top shape and be ready to push up into the 8 and make a big charge at it next year.

Saw some footage this morning of Cripps and his family which must've been just after the count.....if you haven't seen it, check it on IG. Truly beautiful moment and hard to keep dry eyes.

He carried the club for quite a few years when we were ordinary on the field. So well deserved that he gets this award and the personal recognition but no doubting what will be driving him....standing on the dais as captain of the CFC and holding the Premiership Cup up.

 
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Slowhand on September 19, 2022, 01:53:11 pm
Wonder how many of our crew got injured last night.

We are Carlton.....
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: DJC on September 19, 2022, 02:41:31 pm
Yep, and I loved Petracca getting screwed off with Gils mispronunciation of his name. Having an Italian background, I love when young people of Euro heritage take the time to correct poor pronunciation of names, it shows attention to detail and that they care about their heritage. Not like peanuts such as Montagna (phonetically Mon-tun-ya) and Rochele (Ro-ke-le) from Adelaide who open tell people to pronounce their name the wrong way. Ricciardo (Rich-ardo) is another imbecile. Its not that hard fellas, have some pride.

Do you get regional differences in pronunciation?

British names can be pronounced differently based on location, status and/or preference.  For example, one of my ancestral names is St John (pronounced Saint John) but some Brits pronounce it Sinjin.  Then there's McKay (MacKay or Mackeye), Strachan (Strack-an or Strawn and Mainwaring (as it's spelt or Mannering).

I have been quite happy with Gil's attempts to pronounce names.  He is a lot better than those who came before but you'd think he would have practised Petracca.



Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Micky0 on September 19, 2022, 02:43:40 pm
I actually thought it was extremely poor he didn’t get Petracca right and the way he was saying it was really bogan Aussie tbh (Euro heritage here too).

Petracca is hardly someone that we’ve not heard of before, really crap of Gil. 
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Micky0 on September 19, 2022, 02:46:16 pm
Also Someone mentioned social media has a littering of derogatory comments about our boy and it’s been difficult not engaging but end of the day I personally thought he should never have been reported to begin with.

Cripps is not a dirty player and for all the scraping and scragging and tagging he gets, he’d be forgiven for occasionally being fed up and throwing an arm back. But he hasn’t and doesn’t.

He is an exemplary footballer and person. Thoroughly deserved.

Had a bunch of friends msg last night that do not barrack for Carlton, all with only pure admiration and happiness for the guy!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Micky0 on September 19, 2022, 04:04:48 pm
We’re a happy team…..!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Thryleon on September 19, 2022, 04:38:23 pm
Wow LOB got an invite??
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 19, 2022, 04:42:13 pm
I think you were talking about trading him last season....  we are very lucky to have crippa.  He's a ripper!

I was, but that was with an asterisk of sorts, pending if we didn't think we could get his body right and back to his best.
If he remained 'broken' and giving us sub-par performances, he was hurting the team as he couldn't chase/catch anything.
His value would plummet and we couldn't cash in on his value.
No only did he get back to full fitness, Vossy was able to 'cover for him' by surrounding him with hard 2-way runners on he wings to ensure his man didn't get free, and also allow him to drift forward where he demanded a matchup.

Clearly, we did get his body right and S+C coaches deserves a pay rise. Not only did they fix Cripps, but they were able to get Charlie back to a level of fitness we all dreamed of AND get Marchbank back to AFL level as well. Not to menion Docherty putting in AA calibar year when we though he was a right-off.
Those 4 were all 'injured' for basically 2 or so years each. So pat on the back for them.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Micky0 on September 19, 2022, 04:44:08 pm
Interesting hey.

Oh IG the friend of Charlie’s is shown as Max de Been and seems to be part of the group
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Micky0 on September 19, 2022, 04:45:44 pm
Charlie’s friend
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 19, 2022, 05:20:01 pm
Do you get regional differences in pronunciation?

British names can be pronounced differently based on location, status and/or preference.  For example, one of my ancestral names is St John (pronounced Saint John) but some Brits pronounce it Sinjin.  Then there's McKay (MacKay or Mackeye), Strachan (Strack-an or Strawn and Mainwaring (as it's spelt or Mannering).

I have been quite happy with Gil's attempts to pronounce names.  He is a lot better than those who came before but you'd think he would have practised Petracca.




No regional differences in names per se`, in general, names are pronounced using proper Italian as opposed to Dialects.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: tonyo on September 19, 2022, 05:33:29 pm
Crippa has responded to Gill's dummy spit about the tribunal suspension dismissal.

He simply said 'he called my name for the last three votes, so I'll just leave it at that'

Looks like Crippa is good in heavy traffic, whether it be in the middle of the MCG, or a sidewalk interview...... 
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 19, 2022, 07:05:38 pm
We’re a happy team…..!
Charlie and Matt Kennedy have a bit of split enz about them...good to see Doc well and enjoying himself.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LoveNavy on September 19, 2022, 07:13:09 pm
Old news from.a couple of weeks ago the HeraldSun have just made a headline.

Yet it was reprinted in AFL.com as though it's current and relevant.
Says more about the sooking character of a man than anything else.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 19, 2022, 08:10:06 pm
Wow LOB got an invite??
I think he and Weiters met them afterwards.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 19, 2022, 08:13:08 pm
We’re a happy team…..!
Good to see Vossy getting amongst it, if nothing else we are a tight group.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: DJC on September 19, 2022, 08:25:16 pm
I think he and Weiters met them afterwards.

Murph too!

I wouldn’t be surprised if most of the team got together.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: DJC on September 19, 2022, 09:22:39 pm
That’s the first Brownlow night I’ve watched from start to finish for many years (I didn’t see the red carpet).  It’s not great TV but it was well worth persevering with until the end.

I did open a second bottle to get me past the cringeworthy moments 🙄

Crippa was a worthy winner and so humble and honest in victory.  He spoke so well, thanks in part to Harry’s Mum plying him with water. 

What a travesty it would have been if the suspension had been allowed to stand!

The only real gripe I have about the night is the goal and mark of the year.  The goal of the year was OK, but not outstanding, and the mark of the year was average.  It didn’t even win mark of the week.

There must be a better way to determine goal and mark of the year 🤔
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Thryleon on September 20, 2022, 07:01:06 am
I have a PVR and only watched the bits I could be bothered with. Largely I enjoy the round recap before the votes as a good way to relive a season without watching hours of footy.  I got the entire count done in less than 1.5 hours plus hearing the speeches from cripps.  I did watch the goal and mark of the year and thought that they have missed way better than the final candidates. 
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: laj on September 20, 2022, 05:14:21 pm
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/20/how-tough-cripps-draft-lesson-led-magpies-to-take-a-risk-on-future-all/
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 20, 2022, 05:22:47 pm
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/20/how-tough-cripps-draft-lesson-led-magpies-to-take-a-risk-on-future-all/
A bigger f-wit than Matt Rendell you will not find.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: PaulP on September 20, 2022, 05:52:17 pm
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/20/how-tough-cripps-draft-lesson-led-magpies-to-take-a-risk-on-future-all/

Seems like a pretty honest recollection to me. Admitted he stuffed up big time, learned his lesson and was determined not to make the same mistake twice. And ended up with a gun.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Micky0 on September 20, 2022, 06:10:32 pm
Imagine if Collingwood had Cripps now 😳

Obviously you don’t know if it wouldve worked out or who else wouldve come and gone but imagine him in the team that played this year!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 20, 2022, 06:19:56 pm
Seems like a pretty honest recollection to me. Admitted he stuffed up big time, learned his lesson and was determined not to make the same mistake twice. And ended up with a gun.
Still waiting to hear Dodoro admit to ANY of his numerous mistakes
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: PaulP on September 20, 2022, 06:29:05 pm
Imagine if Collingwood had Cripps now 😳

Obviously you don’t know if it wouldve worked out or who else wouldve come and gone but imagine him in the team that played this year!

I had the same thought. I'd be curious to know how Cripps would be deployed in McRae's slingshot footy.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 20, 2022, 06:35:26 pm
Seems like a pretty honest recollection to me. Admitted he stuffed up big time, learned his lesson and was determined not to make the same mistake twice. And ended up with a gun.
I wanted Maynard at the Boekhorst pick, he wasnt slow at Sandy Dragons when I watched him play a few games and was thought of as being a Luke Hodge type player of the future I dont rate Rendell's views much and him missing on Cripps is no surprise....
Some players are just born natural footballers, the athletic stuff can be improved on but players like Cripps, Hodge, Maynard, etc are core team reliable players who dont need to be Usain Bolt as they are just made for the game in other areas.
Sam Walsh is another real natural footballer......Rankine, Rozee etc from his draft might be quicker, prettier to watch, upside heavy, but I'd be picking the footballer first everytime.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 20, 2022, 07:30:43 pm
I wanted Maynard at the Boekhorst pick, he wasnt slow at Sandy Dragons when I watched him play a few games and was thought of as being a Luke Hodge type player of the future I dont rate Rendell's views much and him missing on Cripps is no surprise....
Some players are just born natural footballers, the athletic stuff can be improved on but players like Cripps, Hodge, Maynard, etc are core team reliable players who dont need to be Usain Bolt as they are just made for the game in other areas.
Sam Walsh is another real natural footballer......Rankine, Rozee etc from his draft might be quicker, prettier to watch, upside heavy, but I'd be picking the footballer first everytime.
Rankine and Rozee wouldn't tie Walshy's boot laces.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: WASurfer on September 20, 2022, 07:50:14 pm
EB....I've mentioned it many times.....that 2014 trade period/draft set our club back 5 years with the terrible decisions made.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 20, 2022, 08:12:55 pm
EB....I've mentioned it many times.....that 2014 trade period/draft set our club back 5 years with the terrible decisions made.
Not wrong Surfie, when you stuff up when you go hard at the draft it does set you back, every pick was a dud and then we trade in Jaksch and Whiley who were also duds.....
Lost Waite to Nth, traded Garlett out to Melbourne for peanuts, sacked Robbo no return there either, then to top off we picked Tutt in the PSD and fecked up every rookie pick too with nothing of substance coming in via that route either.
We were 0 from about 10-12, in terms of draft moves.....it couldnt get any worse..a monkey with a dart board could have done better than our recruiters.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: WASurfer on September 20, 2022, 08:34:40 pm
And all of those blokes would've/should've been in the prime of their careers in the last year or two. You don't get them all right but that one was a shambles.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Thryleon on September 20, 2022, 08:46:41 pm
If only it wasn't just that year.  We fecked up most of our picks between 2012 and 2015. 
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: DJC on September 20, 2022, 09:16:44 pm
If only it wasn't just that year.  We fecked up most of our picks between 2012 and 2015.

It wasn’t until SOS came onboard that we had any idea about how to use the draft.  Apart from using our #1 picks on the obvious candidates, decades of poor on field performances produced nothing meaningful in terms of improving our list.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 20, 2022, 10:52:03 pm
Our drafting pre SOS was abhorrent. From 2014 to as far back as the Yarra draft of 2008, we drafted/rookied 29 players, only 3 players remain on AFL lists (Cripps, Holman and Robbo who has seemingly retired).
I can't format tables for crap on this site but here it is anyway (for you enjoyment)
Year   Rnd   Pick   Team   Player   Where are they now   Games Played
2014   1   19   Carlton   Blaine Boekhorst       25
2014   2   28   Carlton   Dillon Viojo-Rainbow       0
2014   4   60   Carlton   Clem Smith       7
2014   4   63   Carlton   Jayden Foster       0
2013   1   13   Carlton   Patrick Cripps   Carlton   159
2013   3   39   Carlton   Cameron Giles       0
2013   3   51   Carlton   Nicholas Holman   Gold Coast   9
2012   1   11   Carlton   Troy Menzel       44
2012   2   35   Carlton   Tom Temay       0
2012   3   54   Carlton   Nicholas Graham      
2011   1   22   Carlton   Joshua Bootsma       14
2011   2   44   Carlton   Sam Rowe       100
2011   3   62   Carlton   Dylan Buckley FS       41
2010   1   18   Carlton   Matthew Watson       23
2010   2   34   Carlton   Patrick McCarthy       1
2010   2   42   Carlton   Luke Mitchell       1
2010   4   67   Carlton   Andrew McInnes       17
2010   4   70   Carlton   Nicholas Duigan       43
2010   5   85   Carlton   Jeff Garlett R       155
2010   6   99   Carlton   David Ellard R       55
2009   1   12   Carlton   Kane Lucas       42
2009   3   43   Carlton   Marcus Davies       17
2009   4   59   Carlton   Rohan Kerr       0
2009   5   72   Carlton   Sam Jacobs R       204
2009   6   83   Carlton   Aaron Joseph R       50
2008   1   6   Carlton   Christopher Yarran       119
2008   3   40   Carlton   Mitch Robinson   Brisbane   247
2008   5   65   Carlton   Rhys O'Keeffe       3
2008   6   80   Carlton   Caleb Tiller       0
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: northernblue on September 20, 2022, 11:20:24 pm
Our drafting pre SOS was abhorrent. From 2014 to as far back as the Yarra draft of 2008, we drafted/rookied 29 players, only 3 players remain on AFL lists (Cripps, Holman and Robbo who has seemingly retired).
I can't format tables for crap on this site but here it is anyway (for you enjoyment)
Year   Rnd   Pick   Team   Player   Where are they now   Games Played
2014   1   19   Carlton   Blaine Boekhorst       25
2014   2   28   Carlton   Dillon Viojo-Rainbow       0
2014   4   60   Carlton   Clem Smith       7
2014   4   63   Carlton   Jayden Foster       0
2013   1   13   Carlton   Patrick Cripps   Carlton   159
2013   3   39   Carlton   Cameron Giles       0
2013   3   51   Carlton   Nicholas Holman   Gold Coast   9
2012   1   11   Carlton   Troy Menzel       44
2012   2   35   Carlton   Tom Temay       0
2012   3   54   Carlton   Nicholas Graham      
2011   1   22   Carlton   Joshua Bootsma       14
2011   2   44   Carlton   Sam Rowe       100
2011   3   62   Carlton   Dylan Buckley FS       41
2010   1   18   Carlton   Matthew Watson       23
2010   2   34   Carlton   Patrick McCarthy       1
2010   2   42   Carlton   Luke Mitchell       1
2010   4   67   Carlton   Andrew McInnes       17
2010   4   70   Carlton   Nicholas Duigan       43
2010   5   85   Carlton   Jeff Garlett R       155
2010   6   99   Carlton   David Ellard R       55
2009   1   12   Carlton   Kane Lucas       42
2009   3   43   Carlton   Marcus Davies       17
2009   4   59   Carlton   Rohan Kerr       0
2009   5   72   Carlton   Sam Jacobs R       204
2009   6   83   Carlton   Aaron Joseph R       50
2008   1   6   Carlton   Christopher Yarran       119
2008   3   40   Carlton   Mitch Robinson   Brisbane   247
2008   5   65   Carlton   Rhys O'Keeffe       3
2008   6   80   Carlton   Caleb Tiller       0

Certainly I’m making zero effort to defend the decision makers from the time but I doubt you’d find many selections from 14-8 years ago still in the system.
At a guess maybe 10, 10 year players drafted in total each year ?
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on September 20, 2022, 11:36:23 pm
That is a scary indictment of the pathetic nature of our recruiting in that period. No wonder we needed a complete cleanout under Bolton. Maybe he did a better job than I thought making the painful yards to a better future. His reward was to be sacked, a fate I think he always knew was coming from the day he started.

On another note Boekhorst was one of the favourites for the Sandover over here before he did his knee in August. A good WAFL player but completely out of his depth in the AFL but we have had a few of those over the years looking a that list
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on September 20, 2022, 11:39:08 pm
I still cry when I see we took Kane Lucas the pick before Daniel Talia 😢😵‍💫
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: kruddler on September 21, 2022, 09:42:19 am
It is a sign of the amount of money we had available to spend on such things too.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 21, 2022, 09:43:07 am
That is a scary indictment of the pathetic nature of our recruiting in that period. No wonder we needed a complete cleanout under Bolton. Maybe he did a better job than I thought making the painful yards to a better future. His reward was to be sacked, a fate I think he always knew was coming from the day he started.

On another note Boekhorst was one of the favourites for the Sandover over here before he did his knee in August. A good WAFL player but completely out of his depth in the AFL but we have had a few of those over the years looking a that list
Boekhorst was rated as a rookie selection by most scribes, not sure what we were thinking when we picked him so early..
There were rumours another team was also keen, but we saved them the embarrassment..
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: crashlander on September 21, 2022, 10:17:22 am
Not wrong Surfie, when you stuff up when you go hard at the draft it does set you back, every pick was a dud and then we trade in Jaksch and Whiley who were also duds.....
Lost Waite to Nth, traded Garlett out to Melbourne for peanuts, sacked Robbo no return there either, then to top off we picked Tutt in the PSD and fecked up every rookie pick too with nothing of substance coming in via that route either.
We were 0 from about 10-12, in terms of draft moves.....it couldnt get any worse..a monkey with a dart board could have done better than our recruiters.
It was much worse than a random selection would be. Probability theory suggests there should have been at least 2 successes from 12 selections.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: laj on September 21, 2022, 10:31:37 am
Our drafting pre SOS was abhorrent. From 2014 to as far back as the Yarra draft of 2008, we drafted/rookied 29 players, only 3 players remain on AFL lists (Cripps, Holman and Robbo who has seemingly retired).
I can't format tables for crap on this site but here it is anyway (for you enjoyment)
Year   Rnd   Pick   Team   Player   Where are they now   Games Played
2014   1   19   Carlton   Blaine Boekhorst       25
2014   2   28   Carlton   Dillon Viojo-Rainbow       0
2014   4   60   Carlton   Clem Smith       7
2014   4   63   Carlton   Jayden Foster       0
2013   1   13   Carlton   Patrick Cripps   Carlton   159
2013   3   39   Carlton   Cameron Giles       0
2013   3   51   Carlton   Nicholas Holman   Gold Coast   9
2012   1   11   Carlton   Troy Menzel       44
2012   2   35   Carlton   Tom Temay       0
2012   3   54   Carlton   Nicholas Graham      
2011   1   22   Carlton   Joshua Bootsma       14
2011   2   44   Carlton   Sam Rowe       100
2011   3   62   Carlton   Dylan Buckley FS       41
2010   1   18   Carlton   Matthew Watson       23
2010   2   34   Carlton   Patrick McCarthy       1
2010   2   42   Carlton   Luke Mitchell       1
2010   4   67   Carlton   Andrew McInnes       17
2010   4   70   Carlton   Nicholas Duigan       43
2010   5   85   Carlton   Jeff Garlett R       155
2010   6   99   Carlton   David Ellard R       55
2009   1   12   Carlton   Kane Lucas       42
2009   3   43   Carlton   Marcus Davies       17
2009   4   59   Carlton   Rohan Kerr       0
2009   5   72   Carlton   Sam Jacobs R       204
2009   6   83   Carlton   Aaron Joseph R       50
2008   1   6   Carlton   Christopher Yarran       119
2008   3   40   Carlton   Mitch Robinson   Brisbane   247
2008   5   65   Carlton   Rhys O'Keeffe       3
2008   6   80   Carlton   Caleb Tiller       0

A few of the best picks there ended up at other clubs.  Robbo ended up a 250 game player. Jacobs over 200. Joesph, Ellard, Graham and Rowe were ok given where they were picked. Levi, who is not mentioned, who as good pick at rookie pick 44. Won't often find genius's there where they were selected and couldn't be expected to carry the club to glory.  That's the nicest I can come up with, as when you look at it that is nothing short of a disaster. Bower, not mentioned, wouldn't have been too bad if he wasn't picked at 18.

Doesn't Cripps stand out!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: laj on September 21, 2022, 10:33:08 am
I still cry when I see we took Kane Lucas the pick before Daniel Talia 😢😵‍💫

I cry looking at the list
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 21, 2022, 10:39:34 am
A few of the best picks there ended up at other clubs.  Robbo ended up a 250 game player. Jacobs over 200. Joesph, Ellard, Graham and Rowe were ok given where they were picked. Levi, who is not mentioned, who as good pick at rookie pick 44. Won't often find genius's there where they were selected and couldn't be expected to carry the club to glory.  That's the nicest I can come up with, as when you look at it that is nothing short of a disaster. Bower, not mentioned, wouldn't have been too bad if he wasn't picked at 18.

Doesn't Cripps stand out!
Bower was entertaining, it was like sideshow everytime he played, normally you would be yelling and screaming at a player who made so many mistakes but in his case you just laughed.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: crashlander on September 21, 2022, 10:42:20 am
To take data from the previous page:
Year   Rnd   Pick   Team   Player   Where are they now   Games Played
2014   1   19   Carlton   Blaine Boekhorst       25
2014   2   28   Carlton   Dillon Viojo-Rainbow       0
2014   4   60   Carlton   Clem Smith       7
2014   4   63   Carlton   Jayden Foster       0
2013   1   13   Carlton   Patrick Cripps   Carlton   159
2013   3   39   Carlton   Cameron Giles       0
2013   3   51   Carlton   Nicholas Holman   Gold Coast   9
2012   1   11   Carlton   Troy Menzel       44
2012   2   35   Carlton   Tom Temay       0
2012   3   54   Carlton   Nicholas Graham      
2011   1   22   Carlton   Joshua Bootsma       14
2011   2   44   Carlton   Sam Rowe       100
2011   3   62   Carlton   Dylan Buckley FS       41
2010   1   18   Carlton   Matthew Watson       23
2010   2   34   Carlton   Patrick McCarthy       1
2010   2   42   Carlton   Luke Mitchell       1
2010   4   67   Carlton   Andrew McInnes       17
2010   4   70   Carlton   Nicholas Duigan       43
2010   5   85   Carlton   Jeff Garlett R       155
2010   6   99   Carlton   David Ellard R       55
2009   1   12   Carlton   Kane Lucas       42
2009   3   43   Carlton   Marcus Davies       17
2009   4   59   Carlton   Rohan Kerr       0
2009   5   72   Carlton   Sam Jacobs R       204
2009   6   83   Carlton   Aaron Joseph R       50
2008   1   6   Carlton   Christopher Yarran       119
2008   3   40   Carlton   Mitch Robinson   Brisbane   247
2008   5   65   Carlton   Rhys O'Keeffe       3
2008   6   80   Carlton   Caleb Tiller       0
Of the 29 players selected above, only one has been a champion, Patrick Cripps.
Only 2 were top players at other clubs, Sam Jacobs and Mitch Robinson.
Of the rest:
[1]   Sam Rowe could be considered a success. He was a stalwart in bad times and should have played 100 for us, instead of having to go to St Kilda to do it. He also overcame cancer to be the player he was.
[2]   Nick Guigan could have been a success, but for his knees. He was the sort of leader we were crying out for.
[3]   Chris Yarran could have been anything. It was a real pity to see him spiral out of control, as he had more talent than most players could dream of having.
[4]   Dylan Buckley, as a F/S, wasn’t a total failure. He may not have been the player we wanted, but we would have selected him under any of our recruitment teams.
[5]   Aaron Joseph was a reasonable player for the pick he was. He did a job. The same could be said of David Ellard.
[6]   Jeff Garlett … the more I think about him, the more disappointed I become. He had his flaws as a player, but giving him away was rank stupidity.

The other thing you may note is the preponderance of guys who were injured. Guys like McCarthy and Mitchell were recruited with injury problems. Even guys like Rowe had to overcome incredible adversity just to get on the field. McInnes and Duigan were ruined by injuries after looking the goods.

The other thing of note is the number of total spuds, serious recruiting errors. Taking Boekhorst at pick 19 was horrendous, but Josh Bootsma was little better. Kane Lucas was rated highly as a junior, but he was also a major fail. Tom Temay at pick 35 was another serious blunder. Of his draft cohort, the one I wanted us to avoid was Clem Smith.

This period of recruiting will go down in history as one of the poorest from any team ever.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: crashlander on September 21, 2022, 11:33:22 am
It was much worse than a random selection would be. Probability theory suggests there should have been at least 2 successes from 12 selections.
I went to the effort of modelling our success mathematically. Assuming the players were selected randomly, the only way I could get an expected value as bad as our actual selections was to have the probability of success equalling 1 in 20. That suggested that expected number to be 1.45 players. Rounding gives us 1.

A probability of 1 in 15 suggests we should have got 1.93 players, which would be rounded to 2.

This model is a random selection. The selection process should not be random: most recruiters would have a good knowledge of the draft cohort, especially the top few. This sort of outcome is incredibly poor.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: madbluboy on September 21, 2022, 12:08:54 pm
Looking at how much of a lotto the draft is I would trade for experience every time now.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: tonyo on September 21, 2022, 01:51:30 pm
I wonder how many failures on that list would have ended up as half-decent footballers if they had been drafted by a Geelong or Sydney with a functional development program and an internal VFL side.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: tonyo on September 21, 2022, 01:52:37 pm
I wonder how many failures on that list would have ended up as half-decent footballers if they had been drafted by a Geelong or Sydney with a functional development program and an internal VFL side.

:'(
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Baggers on September 21, 2022, 02:15:45 pm
I wonder how many failures on that list would have ended up as half-decent footballers if they had been drafted by a Geelong or Sydney with a functional development program and an internal VFL side.

...or the present day CFC culture?
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Thryleon on September 21, 2022, 03:19:53 pm
Looking at how much of a lotto the draft is I would trade for experience every time now.
Geelong tell that story better than any other team in the competition.

Everyone likes to call them dads army, but they have really smashed it out of the park with their approach.

North Melbourne were doing alright too until they stopped being able to attract a decent player.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: enz on September 21, 2022, 03:38:50 pm
Charlie and Matt Kennedy have a bit of split enz about them...good to see Doc well and enjoying himself.

"I See Red"
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 21, 2022, 03:59:12 pm
Geelong tell that story better than any other team in the competition.

Everyone likes to call them dads army, but they have really smashed it out of the park with their approach.

North Melbourne were doing alright too until they stopped being able to attract a decent player.
Probably an art to picking the right dads and I think the Cats have worked on the theory that the odds have to turn your way if you keep making finals and giving yourself a chance.
The other thing which I have said before that favours them is essentially being a regional club ,they have that lure of lifestyle and return home factor along with virtually their own U18 team(Falcons) where most of those kids want to play with the Cats given the choice and the good ones who get taken by other clubs are always teased by the Cats to come back home.. You add strong local comps where they get also get good players from ie Stewart, Atkins, Henry and its a bit easier to keep the momentum going so you dont have to keep hitting up good players in the draft. Great management and recruiting helps for sure...who would have had money on them turning the troublesome Stengle into a AA player, his career was fecked but some how they made him come good...maybe Eddie was the key.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: tonyo on September 21, 2022, 05:10:14 pm
Geelong tell that story better than any other team in the competition.

Everyone likes to call them dads army, but they have really smashed it out of the park with their approach.

North Melbourne were doing alright too until they stopped being able to attract a decent player.
 They sell the seaside lifestyle and get plenty of bites.  Are there any Geelong players who don't live 'on the coast'...? 
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on September 21, 2022, 07:00:23 pm
They sell the seaside lifestyle and get plenty of bites.  Are there any Geelong players who don't live 'on the coast'...?
Too true, nice place to retire along the coast and Id be interested the number of ex imported in Geelong players who have kept it as their home after football.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: madbluboy on September 22, 2022, 03:57:20 pm
Geelong tell that story better than any other team in the competition.

Everyone likes to call them dads army, but they have really smashed it out of the park with their approach.



Well instead of gambling on kids who could be 10 year players but most of the time fail they recruit sure things who might only have 3-5 years left but that is better than what Dow, O'Brien, Stocker, Kemp or SPS have given us.

Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 22, 2022, 03:59:50 pm
Geelong tell that story better than any other team in the competition.

Everyone likes to call them dads army, but they have really smashed it out of the park with their approach.

North Melbourne were doing alright too until they stopped being able to attract a decent player.
They are Dad's Army, the fact is its PFs and GFs that Dad's Armies win if they can get there. For a bunch of old blokes, they have been both lucky with injury and well managed. As a group though, their time in the sun is limited.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on September 22, 2022, 04:08:06 pm
They are Dad's Army, the fact is its PFs and GFs that Dad's Armies win if they can get there. For a bunch of old blokes, they have been both lucky with injury and well managed. As a group though, their time in the sun is limited.
Yes, very well managed, but they will be hell bent to keep the opposition on a leash, if the Swans get off the leash the ball might not get into the Handbaggers F50.

For the Swans to win, I think Hickey has to be the Norm Smith, it's not impossible.

Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: PaulP on September 22, 2022, 04:17:19 pm
I think Geelong have a very good balance of youth and experience. I can't think of one kid who hasn't shown something : Max Holmes, Sam De Koning, Gryan Miers (admittedly a little off this year), Jack Henry, Zach Guthrie, Brad Close. All those guys look capable. The club just needed a refresh and refocus, and it seems as though the exit of assistant coaches and CEO, provided the opportunity to do just that, and to all external appearances they've done it well.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Thryleon on September 22, 2022, 04:42:29 pm
They are Dad's Army, the fact is its PFs and GFs that Dad's Armies win if they can get there. For a bunch of old blokes, they have been both lucky with injury and well managed. As a group though, their time in the sun is limited.

Theyve played finals 10 out of the last 11 years for 3 grand finals.

If they lose on Saturday (they won't they've been a cut above the rest all year) they'll still have out performed the Carlton football clubs record since 1993 in roughly 12 years.

Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: DJC on September 22, 2022, 05:20:38 pm
Well instead of gambling on kids who could be 10 year players but most of the time fail they recruit sure things who might only have 3-5 years left but that is better than what Dow, O'Brien, Stocker, Kemp or SPS have given us.

Geelong draft just as many kids and have just as many failures as other clubs.  They drafted five kids in the 2021 draft who have managed two games between them.  Their three 2020 draftees have managed a total of 32 games (our two have played 28).   2019 was better in that their gamble on Sam De Koning really paid off.  Their other two 2019 draftees have played 14 games between them.

They take risks with trade ins like Stengle (pass so far) and Higgins (fail) and bring in solid yet limited performers like Stanley, Henderson and Dalhaus or elite players like Dangerfield, Cameron and Ablett.  I'd rank Tuohy midway between those two groups.

Geelong's real strength lies in getting the most out of later draft picks and rookies like Stewart, Zach Guthrie, Blicavs, Menegola, Duncan, Henry, etc.  With the exception of Ed, Jack and Levi, we haven't had any success with late draft picks or rookies for far too long.

Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on September 22, 2022, 05:36:39 pm
Theyve played finals 10 out of the last 11 years for 3 grand finals.

If they lose on Saturday (they won't they've been a cut above the rest all year) they'll still have out performed the Carlton football clubs record since 1993 in roughly 12 years.


Yep, 3 premierships from 5 GFs, this years is their 6th since 2007. Ill take that every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: laj on September 24, 2022, 12:38:20 pm
Theyve played finals 10 out of the last 11 years for 3 grand finals.

If they lose on Saturday (they won't they've been a cut above the rest all year) they'll still have out performed the Carlton football clubs record since 1993 in roughly 12 years.

Depends how old you are. At my age I have seen Carlton play in 13 Grand Finals for 8 wins, much better than Geelong in that time. They have won 3 from 10 since 1963.

Reckon the Swannies pressure will roll them today so be another loss. Haven't gone 7-0 against the top 5 for nothing this year.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Baggers on September 24, 2022, 01:32:54 pm
Depends how old you are. At my age I have seen Carlton play in 13 Grand Finals for 8 wins, much better than Geelong in that time. They have won 3 from 10 since 1963.

Reckon the Swannies pressure will roll them today so be another loss. Haven't gone 7-0 against the top 5 for nothing this year.

Thought the same thing when I saw 3 Leos post. We are obviously of a similar vintage. In my first 25 years of barracking for the BlueBaggers I saw us win 7 Premierships and lose 4.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: DJC on September 24, 2022, 02:13:11 pm
Thought the same thing when I saw 3 Leos post. We are obviously of a similar vintage. In my first 25 years of barracking for the BlueBaggers I saw us win 7 Premierships and lose 4.

There’s a huge difference when you measure our success over the last 35 years and the 35 years before that.

I’ve been lucky enough to witness the Mighty Blues in 14 grand finals for 8 cups 🙂
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Thryleon on September 24, 2022, 02:19:47 pm
To dot point relevance we are looking at how both teams have performed and their last 10 has been better than our last 30.

Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: madbluboy on September 24, 2022, 03:40:21 pm
I'm 43 but only arrived here in 1988.

Seen 3 grand finals for 1 flag.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on September 25, 2022, 07:43:29 am
There’s a huge difference when you measure our success over the last 35 years and the 35 years before that.

I’ve been lucky enough to witness the Mighty Blues in 14 grand finals for 8 cups 🙂
Same for me 14 GFs for 8 flags although 1962 GF bit of a blur remember the controversial prelim more 😀👍
My old man had the golden run died aged 78 but had 19 GFs for 11 flags!
Be nice to catch him 🙏
No wonder we expect results from “ the team that never lets you down”🤔
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: laj on September 25, 2022, 12:20:52 pm
Thought the same thing when I saw 3 Leos post. We are obviously of a similar vintage. In my first 25 years of barracking for the BlueBaggers I saw us win 7 Premierships and lose 4.

We are. We both just turned 28...haha
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: laj on September 25, 2022, 12:24:48 pm
There’s a huge difference when you measure our success over the last 35 years and the 35 years before that.

I’ve been lucky enough to witness the Mighty Blues in 14 grand finals for 8 cups 🙂

Technically i'm 14 as well but have no real memory of football in 1962 at 5yo so didn't count it. My mother got me supporting the Blues in 1964, before the old man could get in and make me a Swans supporter....lol.

My first game was Carlton v Melbourne in 1964. 3rd last, us, v the Premiers, Melbourne. We led most of the day but got run over by 2 goals.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: crashlander on September 25, 2022, 02:04:18 pm
The first game I saw live was in 1970; Carlton vs Melbourne at the MCG. Jezza kicked his 100th goal that day and we won comfortably. Fans ran out on the ground 4 times, the first three because long shots from Jezza got touched on the line.

The 1st GF I saw was 1973 when we lost to the thugs of Richmond. I will never forgive them for that.

I saw all our premierships from there live. I saw 1968. 1970 and 1972 on the TV, as black and white replays.

It was a heady thing indeed to be a Carlton supporter in those days. The last generation really haven't seen Carlton as the powerhouse we were for more than 30 years.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on September 27, 2022, 11:03:25 pm
Technically i'm 14 as well but have no real memory of football in 1962 at 5yo so didn't count it. My mother got me supporting the Blues in 1964, before the old man could get in and make me a Swans supporter....lol.

My first game was Carlton v Melbourne in 1964. 3rd last, us, v the Premiers, Melbourne. We led most of the day but got run over by 2 goals.
I remember 1964 as being our worst ever to that stage as we finished 10th
hard to believe as we are happy to finish 9th this year 🙄🤔
Upheaval at board level in came Harris and Barassi and the rest is history kicking off a golden era!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Baggers on September 28, 2022, 09:34:20 am
Technically i'm 14 as well but have no real memory of football in 1962 at 5yo so didn't count it. My mother got me supporting the Blues in 1964, before the old man could get in and make me a Swans supporter....lol.

My first game was Carlton v Melbourne in 1964. 3rd last, us, v the Premiers, Melbourne. We led most of the day but got run over by 2 goals.

Very similar story here. I also started barracking for the BlueBaggers in '64... believe it or not, I felt sorry for them and liked the jumper. We were near the bottom and struggling - hence feeling sorry for them (good old Aussie favouring the underdog mentality). First game was Fluffy Ducks v Us. We won by 25 pts.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on November 14, 2022, 08:39:22 pm
The umpire at the centre of the betting scandal has been named as Michael Pell

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/14/report-afl-umpire-entangled-in-illegal-brownlow-betting-named/
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: PaulP on November 14, 2022, 08:55:47 pm
It's been quite the year for scandals.

Hopefully this doesn't mean Cripps has the Brownlow with an *
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on November 14, 2022, 09:27:07 pm
It's been quite the year for scandals.

Hopefully this doesn't mean Cripps has the Brownlow with an *
No, Cripps is fine, it's not about the overall result it's about gambling / odds and spot betting on round bye round votes, etc., etc..
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: PaulP on November 14, 2022, 09:35:56 pm
No, Cripps is fine, it's not about the overall result it's about gambling / odds and spot betting on round bye round votes, etc., etc..

I see. Thanks.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on November 14, 2022, 10:01:58 pm
No, Cripps is fine, it's not about the overall result it's about gambling / odds and spot betting on round bye round votes, etc., etc..
A Newsbreak suggested the umpire has been arrested. 
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: northernblue on November 14, 2022, 10:02:30 pm
Great little promo for the AFL’s good friends…

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/four-men-arrested-over-suspicious-brownlow-medal-betting-20221114-p5by0x.html

Pity as much effort didn’t go into the journalism bit.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: northernblue on November 14, 2022, 10:03:56 pm
A Newsbreak suggested the umpire has been arrested. 

I don’t think it’s suggested, even afl.com reported the fact.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Mav on November 15, 2022, 10:15:57 am
No, Cripps is fine, it's not about the overall result it's about gambling / odds and spot betting on round bye round votes, etc., etc..
That’s mostly true. But when he gave Cripps votes, did he believe he deserved them? Giving surprise votes to a player would definitely be of interest to punters and would tell them that the odds of that player winning are better than the market odds. I’m not saying this happened but that’s the concern.

For instance, if sports betting had been in vogue when Diesel was pipped at the post by Wanganeen, punters would have been very interested to know that the umpires gave Diesel no votes in the last game despite racking up over 40 possessions. Punters would have pencilled in 3 votes for Diesel in that game, so knowing the way the umpires voted would give a punter a massive advantage over other punters.

If Pell gave Cripps 3 votes in a game in which he was clearly best on ground, that wouldn’t have given the punters who were told this much, if any, advantage.

So, was this just a leak or an attempt to put a finger on the scales?
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: madbluboy on November 15, 2022, 11:28:51 am
The only Carlton game he umpired was our loss to Fremantle. Of course Cripps got 3 votes.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Mav on November 15, 2022, 11:46:58 am
More detail has been released.
Quote
Chief football reporter at the Herald Sun, Mark Robinson, wrote one betting agency was alerted to “a punter or punters placing bets on players’ votes in different matches and winning every time.”

“By the end of the count, a red flag was beside his name.”

The league, Robinson wrote, then cross-checked the betting patterns with other betting partners and found the same individual/s placing similar bets.

Subsequent cross-checking on the games themselves then reportedly showed Pell as the one constant.

It looks like the bets weren’t on who’d win the Brownlow, which would have still been a gamble even with a bit of inside info. The bets placed were not gambles at all as the votes in particular games were known to a certainty. It also doesn’t seem that Cripps was the only player whose votes were at issue. From the punters perspective, it wasn’t important who received votes, save that perhaps the bookies were only offering bets on the Brownlow favourites rather than every player in the league. But perhaps that’s not an important rider as it may have been possible to bet against a favourite receiving a vote in a certain game.

Fair dinkum, Bookies really create a problem for sporting integrity by offering “exotic” or spot betting options. That was at the heart of cricket betting scandals as players were paid to bowl a wide on specific balls in the game so punters or bookies could clean up on bets concerning the outcome for those deliveries. Why the hell are they offering bets on the votes on particular games? That creates a massive opportunity for leaks to translate into certain wins.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: DJC on November 15, 2022, 12:02:27 pm
The only Carlton game he umpired was our loss to Fremantle. Of course Cripps got 3 votes.

And Cripps was BoG as his 10 AFLCA votes confirms.

Pell was one of three umpires conferring to decide the votes.  I don't know how forceful/persuasive he is but I suspect that AFL umpires would be hard to sway.  I guess that awarding votes to an unexpected player may increase the odds of a spot bet, but I can't see it being the key to the business model.

Spot betting seems to be more open to corruption than betting on the result of a contest and the remedy would seem to be in the hands of the gambling industry.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: cookie2 on November 15, 2022, 12:22:20 pm
The umpire at the centre of the betting scandal has been named as Michael Pell

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/11/14/report-afl-umpire-entangled-in-illegal-brownlow-betting-named/

Any relation?
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: madbluboy on November 15, 2022, 12:50:10 pm
And Cripps was BoG as his 10 AFLCA votes confirms.

Pell was one of three umpires conferring to decide the votes.  I don't know how forceful/persuasive he is but I suspect that AFL umpires would be hard to sway.  I guess that awarding votes to an unexpected player may increase the odds of a spot bet, but I can't see it being the key to the business model.

Spot betting seems to be more open to corruption than betting on the result of a contest and the remedy would seem to be in the hands of the gambling industry.

Tiger fan at work reckons this dude was running the ARC in their finals loss to Brisbane.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Mav on November 15, 2022, 01:14:29 pm
We can’t assume Pell is corrupt. If he did leak his votes, then that would be a sackable offence and his umpiring career would probably be over. But that doesn’t mean he was party to the bets. Goldsack told his mother that he was going to start the GF as a forward and she went out and placed a successful bet on him kicking the first goal. But he may well have had nothing to do with the bet. Indeed, he may have told her she couldn’t use the info to bet or else he’d be in trouble. It’s possible some malevolent friends may have lured Pell into revealing his votes on the basis that they wouldn’t use or pass on the info. If that is the case, he was stupid and irresponsible but not corrupt.

As the wartime posters used to say, “loose lips sink ships.”
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on November 15, 2022, 03:38:16 pm
Did you piss yourself laughing when you read that the media want the Brownlow voting taken off the umpires, I presume for themselves?

We can rename it the Flubbo / whAteley / bumbeRT / jTurd / wEapon / Dank memorial medal! ;) AKA, the FARTTED!

Imagine those dirty rotten umpires retaining control of the most sacred badged in football, far better off for it to be under the guidance of a Handbagger / CheatsFC duality! ;D

Can you imagine BT, McGuire, Jab Snr, Darcy, Lyon, Cornes and Derwayne voting?

As a little reminder I've got the name of a big media vote winner, Robbert Klomp!

Maybe the media should create a new award, I think Caro has proposed the Golden Chopsticks, but it was a bit of a prickly debate, some claimed they'd rather a stab in the eye than an award from those nuffers!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Thryleon on November 15, 2022, 04:09:50 pm
The voting is subjective enough as it is.  What criteria gets you 3 votes?  Some games its metres gained, some games its clearances, some games its possessions, goals kicked, tackles, score involvements, marks or a combination of them all.

Thing is, in any given game you could make a case for multiple players from both sides to get a vote.

Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 15, 2022, 06:39:54 pm
Any relation?
Maybe the Vatican can give him sanctuary and look after his legals too....
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on November 15, 2022, 07:40:31 pm
Tiger fan at work reckons this dude was running the ARC in their finals loss to Brisbane.
Tiger fans would say that.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Gointocarlton on November 15, 2022, 07:46:32 pm
I'm a traditionalist and as much as in the past I have questioned umpires voting on it, it should remain as is. I think that one bad egg shouldn't taint the integrity of 99.9% of the umpiring fraternity. Make an example of him which sends a clear message to the rest and everything will be fine.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: BluePhantom on November 16, 2022, 07:55:11 am
So... they take the voting away from the umpires who have been doing it for 100 odd years and give it to experts?
Are these the so called experts who can never get the mark or goal of the year right?
Or the experts that pick questionable All Australian teams (and Captains)
FFS leave our game alone.
They've already taken away the goal umpiring decisions.
End rant. >:(
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on November 16, 2022, 08:05:46 am
They've already taken away the goal umpiring decisions.
Yep, and it's an horrendously slow review process, the game is becoming more like Gridiron by the day, soon we'll have 30s of play and 5min of review.

They are about to add a fourth field umpire in an attempt to eliminate variability and improve marginal decisions, but the problem is that the more field umpires they have the more versions of events they see, it won't help it'll make things worse.

They should kybosh the goal review process and add a second goal umpire to each goal line, this can have a real and very tangible impact on results without slowing the game down at all!

The benefits of extra goal umpires flow onto the boundary line umpires as well, when you have two goal umpires you can have the nearside goal umpire sharing in more of those FP decisions and still get reliable score adjudications.

Finally, removing the goal review removes the score review beggars, it's becoming a blight on the game, legions of players crying foul begging for a goal review because they got a pooftenth of a follicle on the fast moving pill. Even worse, some of the less forthright types have started flicking their fingers randomly when trying to make contact, just to sway or confuse the score reviewer. It won't be long before the over-coaches have this as part of the training drill!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: DJC on November 16, 2022, 09:17:12 pm
I'm a traditionalist and as much as in the past I have questioned umpires voting on it, it should remain as is. I think that one bad egg shouldn't taint the integrity of 99.9% of the umpiring fraternity. Make an example of him which sends a clear message to the rest and everything will be fine.

My thoughts too!

The integrity of the Brownlow and its voting is not under question.  What is under question is spot betting in general and betting on the Brownlow in particular.  Ban spot betting and betting on the Brownlow and the problem goes away.

Imagine the potential for corruption if former footballers and media folk gave the votes 🙄
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: Blue Moon on November 19, 2022, 10:57:19 pm
The Brownlow voting system is a bit like democracy. Democracy is the worst form of Government except any other. The Umpires voting at the end of each game and deciding who is the fairest and best is the worst way of making that decision except for any other.
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on November 20, 2022, 03:53:19 pm
The Brownlow voting system is a bit like democracy. Democracy is the worst form of Government except any other. The Umpires voting at the end of each game and deciding who is the fairest and best is the worst way of making that decision except for any other.
The problem with the debating method is displayed in what happened to Greg Williams, one dominant bad egg with a grudge cost him a Brownlow medal, it's like having a single corrupt juror when you need a unanimous decision. In effect he stood over the other umpires and swayed their votes, some call it bullying!

The AFL should require the umpires to vote anonymously and independently, then calculate the 3-2-1 from the anonymous votes!
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: northernblue on November 20, 2022, 04:00:22 pm

The AFL should require the umpires to vote anonymously and independently, then calculate the 3-2-1 from the anonymous votes!

Probably an improvement
Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: DJC on November 20, 2022, 08:24:26 pm
The problem with the debating method is displayed in what happened to Greg Williams, one dominant bad egg with a grudge cost him a Brownlow medal, it's like having a single corrupt juror when you need a unanimous decision. In effect he stood over the other umpires and swayed their votes, some call it bullying!

The AFL should require the umpires to vote anonymously and independently, then calculate the 3-2-1 from the anonymous votes!

And you could end up with four players tied on four votes.

The voting system isn't broken and, as Blue Moon put it, it's the worst system apart from any other.  Leave it be.


Title: Re: Brownlow Medal 2022
Post by: LP on November 21, 2022, 08:20:19 am
And you could end up with four players tied on four votes.

The voting system isn't broken and, as Blue Moon put it, it's the worst system apart from any other.  Leave it be.
It's broken if it's susceptible to corruption or influence, when we hold political elections we vote in booths that preserve our privacy for many reasons.

The recent events would be impossible to occur if no single umpire knew all the votes of a game.

You can avoid tied votes by having the right design around how they are cast and then how they are counted, all votes do not have to be equal, and you can still have the 3-2-1 system on Brownlow night not matter how many individual votes are cast.