All the SPS admirers thinking he needs to play midfield, think again
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/839141/carlton-s-mr-fix-it-amos-update-on-petrevski-seton?fbclid=IwAR2qBBPAIwzbsvwnRKbHJyNrzqWrNNBRSavj2Z6vBVAlDKTuaH5pjAXw12w
All the SPS admirers thinking he needs to play midfield, think again
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/839141/carlton-s-mr-fix-it-amos-update-on-petrevski-seton?fbclid=IwAR2qBBPAIwzbsvwnRKbHJyNrzqWrNNBRSavj2Z6vBVAlDKTuaH5pjAXw12w
Judging by the recruiting and also by the noise coming out of the club, it sounds like pace and attacking flair is a big priority. It's the right move IMO to use SPS as an attacking defender. Both he and Saad could conceivably play higher up then the other defenders. I'll be most interested to see what we serve up in the first few games.
Judging by the recruiting and also by the noise coming out of the club, it sounds like pace and attacking flair is a big priority. It's the right move IMO to use SPS as an attacking defender. Both he and Saad could conceivably play higher up then the other defenders. I'll be most interested to see what we serve up in the first few games.
Perhaps Pauly, only problem I see is SPS has no leg speed.
Perhaps Pauly, only problem I see is SPS has no leg speed.
No, he's not fast, I agree. But having an attacking flair and good instincts can compensate for the lack of speed, to a degree. The thing that worried me was hearing Amos talk about him as a potential Mr Fix It, something which usually results in whipping boy status and unrealised potential. Just ask Bryce.
I don't understand this peronally. He has to play on instinct because he doesn't know how to play half back. How many half backs do we have that do know how to play half back. Why not use one of them, or our new recruits?
Jones and Weitering are a lock for the KP. So who else plays down back?
I'll be generous, pick 6 from the following and 2 can play wings as well.
SPS, Docherty, Plowman, Newman, Williamson, Saad, Williams, Marchbank, Stocker.
How many mid spots have you got left now? Who misses from there?
SPS, Docherty, Plowman, Newman, Williamson, Saad, Williams, Marchbank, Stocker.
How many mid spots have you got left now? Who misses from there?
Depth: isn't it nice to have some, for the first time in years. I hope we have this problem a lot, as I'm tired of having half of our team sitting in the stands. We haven't finished a season with anything close to a full list since the mid-90's. Teams like Richmond and Brisbane have full lists come finals time, and what do they do?
SPS doesn't defend, Saad doesn't want to pick up a man either.
SPS doesn't defend, Saad doesn't want to pick up a man either.
EB to my surprise, he conceded very few goals.
From the article:
Champion Data stats show that Petrevski-Seton conceded less than a goal a game to his direct opponent this year, including having no goals conceded between Rounds 11 and 17.
EB to my surprise, he conceded very few goals.
From the article:
Champion Data stats show that Petrevski-Seton conceded less than a goal a game to his direct opponent this year, including having no goals conceded between Rounds 11 and 17.
Yes, if Samo is getting the pill and his opponent isn’t, he is defending.
It seemed to me that there were times when he was unsure whether he had the time to get the ball to a teammate and got pinged for holding the ball or turned it over. Experience should help to minimise those situations.
I thought SPS began to look a lot better this year imo, and restored some faith that he may well become a very good player for us. Prior to that I definitely had significant doubts about him.
He needs to recover his tackling ability and work on his linking with slick passes by hand and foot. I'm somewhat hopeful
If our back line is to come from SPS, Weitering, Marchbank, Docherty, Jones, Saad, Plowman, Newman & Williamson, with back ups from William, Casboult, Silvagni & McGovern, then we are in pretty good shape.
I don't think our D50 has been a problem for years.
As far as I'm concerned, teams mostly score heavily against us because of a lack of run and chase from our F50 and Mids!
Fans go ballistic at guys like Plowman, SPS and Weitering for being too slow, losing their direct opponent, etc., etc., but they can't be left to frequently guard 2 or 3 opponents(Usually an opposition Forward supported by his Mids or even HBFs) and then expected our guys to come out winners every time, and it happens too often! In the meantime our Mids or Forwards are hanging around the 50m arc waiting for the turnover, or sprinting to the bench for a breather instead of sprinting after an opponent!
How many times playing against the Ferals do you see a Feral Mid blocking our Defender's run to give the Feral Forward a free run, it's like the Feral coach has it on replay! If you have a wide field view you get to watch our Mids running to the interchange as this is happening in the opposition's forward pocket!
Carlton Forwards and Mids have to hunt opponents over the whole playing surface, not just when they are within kicking range of goal!
We concede most of our goals from the turnover.
That usually happens when a team is switching from defense to attack, and then a turnover occurs.
I think one of our previous stats was conceding from turnovers where we were ranked at the wrong end of that scale and one of the reasons 2020 was positive for us, was that trend was well and truly reversed.
I thought SPS began to look a lot better this year imo, and restored some faith that he may well become a very good player for us. Prior to that I definitely had significant doubts about him.
I don't see it personally, still looks like he picks and chooses, dinky 15m sideways, frustrates the bejesus out of me. I'll lay London to a Brick that if he played for another mob, many here wouldn't rate him and would be very critical of him.
I don't see it personally, still looks like he picks and chooses, dinky 15m sideways, frustrates the bejesus out of me. I'll lay London to a Brick that if he played for another mob, many here wouldn't rate him and would be very critical of him.
What are you expecting to see from a young bloke (22, 80 games) and played out of position?
Would any other team play him o the HBF?
This guy is an easy B grader, possible A grader.
Others have far more issues.
I don't see it personally, still looks like he picks and chooses, dinky 15m sideways, frustrates the bejesus out of me. I'll lay London to a Brick that if he played for another mob, many here wouldn't rate him and would be very critical of him.
I don’t see that at all 🤔
I see a super-competitive, hard-nosed footballer who always tries to do the right thing for the team, but occasionally makes the wrong decision. I also see a bloke who is played out of position but is working his butt off to make that position his own.
I think that Samo is a bit like Gibbsy in that he polarises supporters, perhaps because they both seem to take their time sizing up the situation before committing to the best option.
I think the general perception of SPS is that he picks and chooses his battles and can lack intenstity...think it was the Gold Coast game where Lachie Weller ran away from him and goaled and there wasnt much effort in chasing but then he played a very good game vs Essendon on Tippa and kept him quiet.
Agree he is being played out of position but that seems to be the case with many players these days and its all part of modern footy. His contract expires end of 2021, be interesting to see his and the clubs approach and how keen both parties are to commit to each other..
I note EB in that SPS communication that Amos outlined that Kemp was to be trained in a defensive role (intercept defender) which raised an eyebrow. As I keep posting in rebuttal to some musings on this site, Kemp is not a midfielder and expectations that he was to fill such a role were unrealistic. It makes our list build look a bit weird if we are specifically drafting a 191 CM utility style player for that role. Surely we can field a decent defensive unit from the plethora of defensive options without pushing the likes of Kemp and SPS back?
Prior to his injury Kemp was playing in the midfield rotations, he was filling a Charlie type role for his team as a marking target and big bodied midfielder, and it was that duality of role that caught the recruiters attention. Although it was all clearly new to him, it wasn't like he was a career mid.
Fans often ignore things like growth spurts and Kemp grew about 8cm towards the end of his junior career, prior to that he was looking more like a Docherty marking defender type than Charlie mid.
Kemp has always been a reasonable ball user, I don't see him competing with Doc, SPS or Saad for the HBF role. So I wonder what will happen with Stocker, given our list changes he needs to get a wriggle on if he wants to feature! I think for Kemp and Stocker their best go is very closely aligned, sweeping the back of the stoppage and putting the ball inside F50 by foot, they are both powerful athletes.
I note EB in that SPS communication that Amos outlined that Kemp was to be trained in a defensive role (intercept defender) which raised an eyebrow. As I keep posting in rebuttal to some musings on this site, Kemp is not a midfielder and expectations that he was to fill such a role were unrealistic. It makes our list build look a bit weird if we are specifically drafting a 191 CM utility style player for that role. Surely we can field a decent defensive unit from the plethora of defensive options without pushing the likes of Kemp and SPS back?
Prof, Kemp played his best footy at U18 level as that Jeremy Howe intercept marking defender type. His marking and kicking are his weapons IMHO, got no doubt when fit he can be used as a tall winger/mid but too me that wasn't his forte. Like a lot of kids who are standouts they get used everywhere at U18 level and he will be another Andrew Walker who trouble shoots a few positions, just hope we don't mess him up like we did AW.
My fear EB is that he doesn't really have a position and expecting a bloke of his body shape/size to develop the aerobic capacity to play significant midfield minutes is unrealistic.
Good kick and really smart football brain, reads play well, just concerned that he's not big enough for a KP and not quick/agile enough to play a small's role. So I guess a Howe-type role is a good one for him to aspire to.
I am not sure, but I think Stocker is very much not in any equations for senior football in 2021 and is very much a get him in the right head space, and see if he is a resource that can be used.
EB to my surprise, he conceded very few goals.
From the article:
Champion Data stats show that Petrevski-Seton conceded less than a goal a game to his direct opponent this year, including having no goals conceded between Rounds 11 and 17.
I can remember him giving up two goals against WCE, but then again, they were probably the two biggest umpiring howlers of 2020!
What are you expecting to see from a young bloke (22, 80 games) and played out of position?
Would any other team play him o the HBF?
This guy is an easy B grader, possible A grader.
Others have far more issues.
You, me and many others say he is playing out of position, the club doesnt think so.
I am not sure, but I think Stocker is very much not in any equations for senior football in 2021 and is very much a get him in the right head space, and see if he is a resource that can be used.
Thry. Got this in my tweeter feed a couple of days ago. Very encouraging. Not sure if this link will work without a twitter account.
https://twitter.com/CFCCheersquad/status/1333264493661417472
@^^^^^
Sounds impresive doesn't it.
In reality, its only 5km a day. Some of the best mids would run 3 days worth in 1 game.
Our AFLW twins Sarah and Jess Hosking ran a marathon last year and i reckon they probably would've doubled that output over the same period.
That is on top of the standard program.
@^^^^^
Sounds impresive doesn't it.
In reality, its only 5km a day. Some of the best mids would run 3 days worth in 1 game.
Our AFLW twins Sarah and Jess Hosking ran a marathon last year and i reckon they probably would've doubled that output over the same period.
Your slipping Krud. ;D
If you read through it its on top of his normal program. So showing some determination to make it through and make up for the lost time this year. Hopefully he will bring that into the pre-season and a round 1 spot.
Thry. Got this in my tweeter feed a couple of days ago. Very encouraging. Not sure if this link will work without a twitter account.
https://twitter.com/CFCCheersquad/status/1333264493661417472
Im not worried about his ability or professionalism.
The rumour is that he's had some mental health problems and im encouraged by the tweet.
Part of ensuring he's back in it is pressure off.
@^^^^^
Sounds impresive doesn't it.
In reality, its only 5km a day. Some of the best mids would run 3 days worth in 1 game.
Our AFLW twins Sarah and Jess Hosking ran a marathon last year and i reckon they probably would've doubled that output over the same period.
Not likely.The players male or female cannot exclusively run as they would waste too much, lose what they have gained, they have a lot of other sessions they need to complete, but this is during a break so it's a pretty reasonable effort! Probably at least 6 to 8 days during that period would be leg days in weight sessions, there would no little or no running and not much the day after as it slows tissue repair and increases the risk of soft tissue injuries. So weight days you get warm up jogs maybe, the day after light runs only perhaps with some skills work.
Interesting factoid from Teague's members' presser; Samo led the league in defensive 50 ground ball gets.
Interesting factoid from Teague's members' presser; Samo led the league in defensive 50 ground ball gets.
Yay
The other point Teague made is that they are relying on Samo being able to hit a target coming out of the defensive 50.
Your slipping Krud. ;D
If you read through it its on top of his normal program. So showing some determination to make it through and make up for the lost time this year. Hopefully he will bring that into the pre-season and a round 1 spot.
Even still, its really not that much.
I'm not saying its all for nothing, but i get a touch of the 'pre-season: he's flying' vibes which is put out each year to sell memberships.
Not likely.
The players male or female cannot exclusively run as they would waste too much, lose what they have gained, they have a lot of other sessions they need to complete, but this is during a break so it's a pretty reasonable effort! Probably at least 6 to 8 days during that period would be leg days in weight sessions, there would no little or no running and not much the day after as it slows tissue repair and increases the risk of soft tissue injuries. So weight days you get warm up jogs maybe, the day after light runs only perhaps with some skills work.
Yes likely.
This was off-season for the twins and they didn't want to put on weight/muscle.
I used to run back in the day and i remember the last time i was training for an ultra-half marathon (28km?) i would've put those numbers up easily (while doing a full time job), and i was slack with the training. In order to do the full marathon, it would've been heaps more which is made easier when that IS your job.
SPS is going @74% in 2020 with his DE which is not bad, problem is he doesnt get enough of the ball and was averaging about 14 possies a game with only 9-10 kicks and 1 x Inside 50, thats not really going to give us much rebound.
As a comparison Saad went at 19 possies@81% DE.., Sam Docherty went at 19 possies@76% DE.
For the premiers..Houli averaged 19 possies @78%DE and Jayden Short went @19 possies@82%DE
Interesting stat is metres gained..SPS gained 167m and Short 480m.....Weitering was 216m gained...
I'm a tad confused how we are fitting everyone in down back especially with Saad, Docherty, Jones and Weitering as locks to play...if SPS is being kept down back then only one of Marchbank, Plowman, Newman, Williamson can play in the starting 18.
I'd like to see SPS used further up the ground and try and get him into the play more and encourage more run from him...
Agreed EB and I said the same thing during the season. He was recruited as a midfielder and given the number of other younger mids that we've recruited who haven't come on as hoped, I would've thought SPS was a lock to play more in the middle. Unfortunately we've got a few who just don't get enough of the ball.
You’re missing Teague’s point; Samo’s role is to hit a target coming out of defensive 50, something he generally does quite well. His DE is lower than it should be as a result of 50/50 kicks under extreme pressure.
Of all of our defensive options, Samo is the only one with the poise and skill to hit a target most of the time. Weitering is pretty good but generally isn’t under the same pressure.
As for our defensive mix, the reduced rotations will probably mean that taller defenders will spend little time on the pine. That means that the starting 18 will include Weitering, Jones, Docherty, Samo, Plowman and Saad with Williamson and/or Marchbank on the bench.
Samo could spend more time in the midfield, or as a small forward, if the likes of Stocker or Kemp can step up and perform his defensive role.
You’re missing Teague’s point; Samo’s role is to hit a target coming out of defensive 50, something he generally does quite well. His DE is lower than it should be as a result of 50/50 kicks under extreme pressure.
Of all of our defensive options, Samo is the only one with the poise and skill to hit a target most of the time. Weitering is pretty good but generally isn’t under the same pressure.
As for our defensive mix, the reduced rotations will probably mean that taller defenders will spend little time on the pine. That means that the starting 18 will include Weitering, Jones, Docherty, Samo, Plowman and Saad with Williamson and/or Marchbank on the bench.
Samo could spend more time in the midfield, or as a small forward, if the likes of Stocker or Kemp can step up and perform his defensive role.
I think Docherty uses the ball ok, SPS tends to kick the ball short imo, if he is the designated player to deliver the ball from defense he needs to get more ball.. 9-10 kicks isn't enough.
I think Docherty uses the ball ok, SPS tends to kick the ball short imo, if he is the designated player to deliver the ball from defense he needs to get more ball.. 9-10 kicks isn't enough.
Docherty tends to get cleaner possessions because of his largely loose player role. He butchers the ball as much as anyone else when under pressure.
Samo definitely needs to get more of the ball. Perhaps Jones should be told to handball to Samo at every opportunity. That would significantly reduce our defensive 50 turnovers.
I think Docherty uses the ball ok, SPS tends to kick the ball short imo, if he is the designated player to deliver the ball from defense he needs to get more ball.. 9-10 kicks isn't enough.
My take is that yes Samo often goes for a short kick, but it’s marked and gives us a “settled” kick as opposed to a pressured or play on type of possession.
Maybe that’s what they are looking for from him, hit a target when under pressure to release that pressure, then we can regroup and run and gun ?
My take is that yes Samo often goes for a short kick, but it’s marked and gives us a “settled” kick as opposed to a pressured or play on type of possession.
Maybe that’s what they are looking for from him, hit a target when under pressure to release that pressure, then we can regroup and run and gun ?
I think that’s exactly what Teague wants. The MC must have decided that Samo is best able to hit that target and is more than able to play his defensive role, as the stats suggest.
Reckon most of our backline are not clean with disposal. General malaise that needs a remedy. It will come
I can't work out why we leave Weitering anchored in the D50, it plays into the opposition hands.
We need him up the ground and kicking into our attacking zone, he's on of the best long kicks in the competition.
I'll tear my hair out if we end up with Marchbank up the field intercept marking and then spraying the footy like weed killer!
I can't work out why we leave Weitering anchored in the D50, it plays into the opposition hands.
We need him up the ground and kicking into our attacking zone, he's on of the best long kicks in the competition.
I'll tear my hair out if we end up with Marchbank up the field intercept marking and then spraying the footy like weed killer!
we don't, he gets dragged there by opposition, and he has to react to that or else we end up with a forward without an opponent, or someone else has to go over.
We have a good defense, but an opposition coach knows a few things.
Carltons defense is team oriented. There is a couple of ways to beat it.
1. Create seperation.
2. If you cant create seperation, if they are going to work together, get them to do it as close to goals as possible.
The issue: It relies on deeper forward entries to create the situation where Liam can come across to help. He's the chaos player in our backline. He will win a lot of aerial ball, but he doesnt chop it off and create, he is a defensive player who can create the sort of situation that Richmond feed off.
Weitering is the dangerous one. Most of the time, the machinations are to get his opponent to drag him closer to goals and be a decoy offensively.
it creates the situation where our defenders have to make a decision. Do I stay or should I go? Its what I would do if coaching against us. Why? Defenders that make decisions about what they do, are easier to catch out than ones who are simply following an opponent. So, by dragging Weiters closer to goal, it means he has to stay as the interceptor, or go with his man. He wont get that right every time, and the time he gets it wrong, odds are his opponent will have plowman for company and thats a win in itself.
Thats why we want marchbank back.
I partially agree
@Thryleon, but we've even left Weitering at FB and had guys like Casboult, Pittonet and McGovern patrolling the HBF.
Despite our D50 success it's very disorganised, there is heaps of room for improvement. We aren't overly blessed with guys who can kick, it should be our priority to make sure the ones who can kick are far enough up the ground to do so!
FWIW, the same applies to SPS. Kicking 15m passes from inside D50 is next to useless, especially when Simmo or Willo was charging up the wing and kicking the footy straight back to the opposition 50m away. Cripps is not a good kick, Setterfield is not a good kick, Walsh, Ed and Casboult are OK. Fisher and Gibbons are OK. Pittonet I haven't seen pass the ball by foot.
Outside of Betts and Martin who are probably already in the F50, Weitering, sMurph and McGovern are pretty good by foot, but all three aren't generally left free in play to make use of that skill.
It's big difference between us and top of the ladder clubs, at the Handbaggers someone like sMurph finds himself at the end of a chain, not being expected to hunt, tackle and win his own footy, but being given a feed from guys like DangerFlog and Selrot.
I partially agree @Thryleon, but we've even left Weitering at FB and had guys like Casboult, Pittonet and McGovern patrolling the HBF.
Despite our D50 success it's very disorganised, there is heaps of room for improvement. We aren't overly blessed with guys who can kick, it should be our priority to make sure the ones who can kick are far enough up the ground to do so!
FWIW, the same applies to SPS. Kicking 15m passes from inside D50 is next to useless, especially when Simmo or Willo was charging up the wing and kicking the footy straight back to the opposition 50m away. Cripps is not a good kick, Setterfield is not a good kick, Walsh, Ed and Casboult are OK. Fisher and Gibbons are OK. Pittonet I haven't seen pass the ball by foot.
Outside of Betts and Martin who are probably already in the F50, Weitering, sMurph and McGovern are pretty good by foot, but all three aren't generally left free in play to make use of that skill.
It's big difference between us and top of the ladder clubs, at the Handbaggers someone like sMurph finds himself at the end of a chain, not being expected to hunt, tackle and win his own footy, but being given a feed from guys like DangerFlog and Selrot.
I disagree.
Our backline is organized. Very organized.
Thats why the run on of 4 or 5 goals at a time being a feature, is the whole team structure falling to pieces for about 5 to 10 mins in games. Its also why we lost as many as we did. Disorganisation creeps in, and its usually on the back of other failures, and the defense having to work hard to cover those positional changes by our opposition.
Else it has been very well organised. This part of the team has been our weak point for the better part of 20 years, and for the first time ever our defense looks strong, and like they all play for each other.
Its one of Bolton's big ticks because it started under him.
I agree Thry.
We give up a few goals from defensive turnovers but most opposition scores seem to come from poor decisions and/or poor execution up the ground.
When you really drill down, each of our defenders had good seasons and Weitering was exceptional and should have been first choice for All Australian CHB.
Getting the defence right is an important first step and I think that we have accomplished that. As much as I admired Simmo, Saad will be an improvement and we will have Marchbank and probably Kemp and Stocker to add to the mix.
The next step is eliminating those turnovers forward of centre and getting full value from our forward 50 entries.
I agree Thry.
We give up a few goals from defensive turnovers but most opposition scores seem to come from poor decisions and/or poor execution up the ground.
When you really drill down, each of our defenders had good seasons and Weitering was exceptional and should have been first choice for All Australian CHB.
Getting the defence right is an important first step and I think that we have accomplished that. As much as I admired Simmo, Saad will be an improvement and we will have Marchbank and probably Kemp and Stocker to add to the mix.
The next step is eliminating those turnovers forward of centre and getting full value from our forward 50 entries.
Be interesting how Saad defends, with Docherty liking to play loose we need to find that balance of defense and attack.
Simmo great as he was could be a weak link in terms of defending and I am hoping Saad is a lot tighter even though there was that report he didnt enjoy being played in a very negative role and that was part of his reasoning on wanting to leave the Bombers.
Too slow
Lacks size
Lacks intensity
Never been dropped should have
Not good enough to play midfield
Another mids pick SOS screwed up
Too slow (Yet faster than Cripps, Kennedy, Setterfield and maybe even Walsh)
Lacks size (Bigger/Heavier than Fisher or Gibbons)
Lacks intensity (Works inside stoppages well)
Never been dropped should have (Probably true, but form isn't an indicator of ability.)
Not good enough to play midfield (Not sure about this claim!)
Another mids pick SOS screwed up (Was he picked as mid, and what are the other Mid screw ups?)
I think that assessment is a bit over the top, it reads like a need for grievance counselling.
SPS has plenty of upside, but he needs to be used the right way. Not sure BB or the MC did him any favours, I've faith in Teague getting the most out of the playing group as it was a feature of his coaching last time he was here.
I'v mentioned before, our midfield looks horribly slow, but the problem is our engine room is too slow overall, on average we are below par in terms of leg speed. This means the opposition can block our run and spread with just a couple of decent chasers to peg guys like sMurph or Fisher.
It also means the opposition can put a quick negating spud like Jed Anderson or Jasper Pittard on Cripps, because they aren't needed to chase anyone on the outside. Cripps can't get away form them because he is not fast, and because he rarely hurts them physically they can play small on him, even when he does hurt them it's by accident.
Add one or two with leg speed to the rotation, instead of overloading the midfield with slows like Cripps, Setterfield, Ed, Kennedy, Walsh as an all in, and you find they all get more time and space!
I think that assessment is a bit over the top, it reads like a need for grievance counselling.
SPS has plenty of upside, but he needs to be used the right way. Not sure BB or the MC did him any favours, I've faith in Teague getting the most out of the playing group as it was a feature of his coaching last time he was here.
I'v mentioned before, our midfield looks horribly slow, but the problem is our engine room is too slow overall, on average we are below par in terms of leg speed. This means the opposition can block our run and spread with just a couple of decent chasers to peg guys like sMurph or Fisher.
It also means the opposition can put a quick negating spud like Jed Anderson or Jasper Pittard on Cripps, because they aren't needed to chase anyone on the outside. Cripps can't get away form them because he is not fast, and because he rarely hurts them physically they can play small on him, even when he does hurt them it's by accident.
Add one or two with leg speed to the rotation, instead of overloading the midfield with slows like Cripps, Setterfield, Ed, Kennedy, Walsh as an all in, and you find they all get more time and space!
Has hardly Achieved anything in 4 years
Has hardly Achieved anything in 4 years
IC
Has hardly Achieved anything in 4 years
Really?
Even though he’s not a natural defender, he did exactly what was asked of him. He will be one of the first picked for many years to come.
Sammo has a long way to go but I think he's not really a half back.
Teague has got to trust some of our younger players in the middle. Running with Pitto Cripps ed and Setterfield again isn't going to get us very far. Treacle slow.
Dekonig Cripps Williams and Walsh should be the first choice but Cunningham showed a bit in the middle when given a chance. Sammo too - I still remember that 30+ game he had when he tore the Dogs apart. Ed has never had a game like that in his career. Setters neither.
Jack took out Fyfe which won us a game. Did the same with Oliver then went forward and kicked 3.
Dow needs to get fit but if he does he's a midfielder and don't pick him as a fwd pocket.
There are options in the midfield. Teague needs to start trusting them more.
Even Stocker. Plays all his career as an inside mid, gets to the AFL and then he's a half back flank. If you want a half back recruit a half back.
Really?
Even though he’s not a natural defender, he did exactly what was asked of him. He will be one of the first picked for many years to come.
Couldn't agree more. I don't get the vehement criticism. Although I also thought he'd be better suited as a mid, after looking at his stats as a backman, against his opponent, he's been very effective.
He was recruited to play midfield
Simple as that
Fair enough in the first couple of years he may play in defense but the last 18 months he has gone backwards.
Saad, Williams, SPS , Docherty need to spend time in the middle
Really?
Even though he’s not a natural defender, he did exactly what was asked of him. He will be one of the first picked for many years to come.
Keogh bags everyone and everything. I don't take any notice of anything he says.
Keogh bags everyone and everything. I don't take any notice of anything he says.
That’s right
Just deflect
What has he done so far in 4 years
That’s right
Just deflect
What has he done so far in 4 years
Education ?
Roads ?
Public sanitation ?
Literacy ?
Aqueduct ?
Hits targets coming out of defense ?
Stops opponent scoring goals ?
Apart from that, bloody nothing !
That’s right
Just deflect
What has he done so far in 4 years
Samo has played every game for which he has been available so two coaches and MCs must think he’s doing OK.
In 2020 he:
> Was ranked first in the AFL for ground ball gets inside the defensive 50.
> Had very few goals kicked by direct opponents.
> Generally hit targets coming out of defence.
> Always stood up for his teammates.
Has played the last 18 months at HB
That’s not what he was recruited for
Has played the last 18 months at HB
That’s not what he was recruited for
Yes, everyone knows that but the MC identified a need for a small defender who can keep his opponent quiet and hit targets coming out of defence. Getting the defence right has been our priority and Samo is an important part of that.
He will only move into the midfield or forward line when someone like Stocker shows that they can play that defensive role as well as Samo.
If you read SOS’s comments about Samo, he was drafted to play midfield, half forward or “other positions”. He is playing in “other positions” now because that’s where he’s needed.
Samo doesn’t have a say in where he’s played, he just does what the coach tells him. If you have a problem with Samo playing in defence, you should be directing any criticism at Teague 🙄
[/quote]
Yes, everyone knows that but the MC identified a need for a small defender who can keep his opponent quiet and hit targets coming out of defence. Getting the defence right has been our priority and Samo is an important part of that.
He will only move into the midfield or forward line when someone like Stocker shows that they can play that defensive role as well as Samo.
If you read SOS’s comments about Samo, he was drafted to play midfield, half forward or “other positions”. He is playing in “other positions” now because that’s where he’s needed.
Samo doesn’t have a say in where he’s played, he just does what the coach tells him. If you have a problem with Samo playing in defence, you should be directing any criticism at Teague 🙄
Spot=on DJC.
Against the drug cheat scum bags this year Samo was playing on the little goal kicking forward , ( sorry, can.t remember his name ) , and kept him to one kick only up to three quarter time.
The cheats moved him away for the last quarter.
Well done Samo.
Spot=on DJC.
Against the drug cheat scum bags this year Samo was playing on the little goal kicking forward , ( sorry, can.t remember his name ) , and kept him to one kick only up to three quarter time.
The cheats moved him away for the last quarter.
Well done Samo.
Fantasia or McDonald-Tipungwuti
Spot=on DJC.
Against the drug cheat scum bags this year Samo was playing on the little goal kicking forward , ( sorry, can.t remember his name ) , and kept him to one kick only up to three quarter time.
The cheats moved him away for the last quarter.
Well done Samo.
Tippa.....he played well that night, didnt get much ball himself but Tippa never touched it.
I think the problem with SPS is defining his role, being down back he is expected to defend but he is also expected to get 20 possies a game and provide rebound. Most rebounding defenders who are expected to get high numbers play loose and dont defend. Houli does that at Richmond and the other backs cover for him, we also had Simmo playing that loose role and now have Saad. How many rebounders can you have who dont man up and are we asking a bit too much of SPS to play both roles?
Yes, everyone knows that but the MC identified a need for a small defender who can keep his opponent quiet and hit targets coming out of defence. Getting the defence right has been our priority and Samo is an important part of that.
He will only move into the midfield or forward line when someone like Stocker shows that they can play that defensive role as well as Samo.
If you read SOS’s comments about Samo, he was drafted to play midfield, half forward or “other positions”. He is playing in “other positions” now because that’s where he’s needed.
Samo doesn’t have a say in where he’s played, he just does what the coach tells him. If you have a problem with Samo playing in defence, you should be directing any criticism at Teague 🙄
What was he pick 6
Hasn’t delivered in the midfield when he has been put there
You need close to 10 players rotating through there successfully to be a top 4 team.
Did you watch any of the top 4 teams this year?
No excuses left for Samo
What was he pick 6
Hasn’t delivered in the midfield when he has been put there
You need close to 10 players rotating through there successfully to be a top 4 team.
Did you watch any of the top 4 teams this year?
No excuses left for Samo
Next........
Next........
How many quality mids do you need?
Reasonable question
More than what we've got at the moment I'd think Keogh? We've recruited quite a few over recent years but at the moment, Cripps and Walsh are probably the only two A-Graders? Murphy is coming towards the end as is Curnow (who is more of a run-with mid anyway). The jury is still out on Dow and O'Brien and the young guys from last year's draft are unproven at the moment too. Kennedy seems to be out of favour. What we've really lacked with midfielders is someone with elite disposal skills able to hit a target up forward. SPS certainly has those skills but hasn't been able to find enough of the ball when running through the middle.
With the likes of Saad, Newman, Williamson, Plowman etc down back, this season could be the time for SPS to move back into the middle?
More than what we've got at the moment I'd think Keogh? We've recruited quite a few over recent years but at the moment, Cripps and Walsh are probably the only two A-Graders? Murphy is coming towards the end as is Curnow (who is more of a run-with mid anyway). The jury is still out on Dow and O'Brien and the young guys from last year's draft are unproven at the moment too. Kennedy seems to be out of favour. What we've really lacked with midfielders is someone with elite disposal skills able to hit a target up forward. SPS certainly has those skills but hasn't been able to find enough of the ball when running through the middle.
With the likes of Saad, Newman, Williamson, Plowman etc down back, this season could be the time for SPS to move back into the middle?
Thanks for the decent reply👍
More than what we've got at the moment I'd think Keogh? We've recruited quite a few over recent years but at the moment, Cripps and Walsh are probably the only two A-Graders? Murphy is coming towards the end as is Curnow (who is more of a run-with mid anyway). The jury is still out on Dow and O'Brien and the young guys from last year's draft are unproven at the moment too. Kennedy seems to be out of favour. What we've really lacked with midfielders is someone with elite disposal skills able to hit a target up forward. SPS certainly has those skills but hasn't been able to find enough of the ball when running through the middle.
With the likes of Saad, Newman, Williamson, Plowman etc down back, this season could be the time for SPS to move back into the middle?
Well if you look at the article which I started this thread with, that aint happening any time soon.
Which is hard to fathom GTC? As many have stated on this and other threads, our defence is probably the one area that we are covered....apart from maybe a key defender if one of Jones or Weitering goes down (hence Oscar McDonald training with the club). We have probably lacked that good ball use coming out of defence but with Saad and Docherty, I think SPS could be better used in the middle. Hopefully Stocker comes on this year as he's another option down back as a shut down smaller type of defender.
Which is hard to fathom GTC? As many have stated on this and other threads, our defence is probably the one area that we are covered....apart from maybe a key defender if one of Jones or Weitering goes down (hence Oscar McDonald training with the club). We have probably lacked that good ball use coming out of defence but with Saad and Docherty, I think SPS could be better used in the middle. Hopefully Stocker comes on this year as he's another option down back as a shut down smaller type of defender.
Not really. Teague has made it clear why Samo is required in defence. I think that it will take someone like Stocker showing that they can perform the role just as well before Samo is released to play as a midfielder or half forward. Newman regaining fitness and form will be another option.
As for our midfield rotations, 2020 saw us using Cripps, Walsh, Murphy, Curnow, Setterfield, Newnes, Martin, Gibbons, Kennedy, Betts, Dow, O'Brien, Cottrell, Philp, Fisher and Cuningham, and I think that Simmo and Doc may have had an occasional run through the guts too. This season we will add Williams and possibly Fogarty, Stocker, Kemp, Durden and Carroll.
We have an abundance of midfielders and half forwards who can can take a turn in the midfield. We mightn't have the quality midfielders of other teams but we have the quantity and potential to achieve that quality.
We don't have a lot of small defenders who can shut down an opponent and hit a target under pressure. Newman is probably the closest to Samo in terms of role and skillset, but he doesn't have the same poise. Saad and Docherty play very different roles with Saad literally replacing Simmo and Docherty continuing his loose man role.
Of that list of midfielders, I reckon 50% won't be listed come end of 2021.
I reckon that list is deceptive, we've actually got very few midfielders that can be relied to perform in that role.
Of that list of midfielders, I reckon 50% won't be listed come end of 2021.
I reckon that list is deceptive, we've actually got very few midfielders that can be relied to perform in that role.
Agree, we lack the real proven class midfield players apart from Cripps and Walsh, but do have an abundance of mids on the list. I think there will be a major effort to get another class proven mid next season and we will trade/delist a few of those mids in training who havent improved.
Of that list of midfielders, I reckon 50% won't be listed come end of 2021.
I reckon that list is deceptive, we've actually got very few midfielders that can be relied to perform in that role.
Just about
Cripps, Walsh,
Murphy,
Curnow, Setterfield, Newnes, Martin, Gibbons,
Kennedy, Betts, Dow,
O'Brien, Cottrell, Philp, Fisher and
Cuningham,
Just about
Cripps, Walsh, Murphy, Curnow, Setterfield, Newnes, Martin, Gibbons, Kennedy, Betts, Dow, O'Brien, Cottrell, Philp, Fisher and Cuningham,
Those blokes in red are not mids.
Just about
Cripps, Walsh, Murphy, Curnow, Setterfield, Newnes, Martin, Gibbons, Kennedy, Betts, Dow, O'Brien, Cottrell, Philp, Fisher and Cuningham,
I think Paddy Dow will ask for a trade if he cant crack too many senior games, reckon Philp might be persisted with and Ed will get another year after 2021 because he is still one of our more consistent players all be it limited in some areas.
Those blokes in red are not mids.
Since when have wingers not been midfielders? Walsh, Murphy, Newnes, Dow, O'Brien, Cottrell and Philp all played on the wing and Betts, Fisher and Cuningham all started in the centre square at times during the season.
Really don’t think our midfield options are too bad at all (excluding Kennedy, Newnes and OBrien all of whom I rate as depth only)
SPS has never been a defender, so could be viewed as having been played out of position for a couple of years and my fingers are crossed that he’s released into the midfield. Great user.
Dow has all the attributes and I haven’t lost hope, but 21 is critical for him.
Not yet sure what to make of Kemp, Stocker, Philp and Honey, but one or more could surprise.
Of the blue chip midfield options in 2021 Cripps, Setterfield & Silvagni are all capable of performing the big body mid role, Curnow or Silvagni can tag and we have a plethora of other general midfielders such as Martin, Williams, SPS, Walsh, Murphy, Dow, Cunningham & Gibbons. I’d also like to see Tom Williamson on a wing in 21.
Plenty of choices and a first choice midfield of
Tom DeKoning (Ruck) Cripps (Ruck Rover) SPS (Rover) Williams (Wing) Walsh (Center) & Martin (Wing) is exciting.
Bigger concern is key defensive depth, CCurnow and our small forward stocks - I’d expect Murphy to move into fwd 50
Really don’t think our midfield options are too bad at all (excluding Kennedy, Newnes and OBrien all of whom I rate as depth only)
SPS has never been a defender, so could be viewed as having been played out of position for a couple of years and my fingers are crossed that he’s released into the midfield. Great user.
Dow has all the attributes and I haven’t lost hope, but 21 is critical for him.
Not yet sure what to make of Kemp, Stocker, Philp and Honey, but one or more could surprise.
Of the blue chip midfield options in 2021 Cripps, Setterfield & Silvagni are all capable of performing the big body mid role, Curnow or Silvagni can tag and we have a plethora of other general midfielders such as Martin, Williams, SPS, Walsh, Murphy, Dow, Cunningham & Gibbons. I’d also like to see Tom Williamson on a wing in 21.
Plenty of choices and a first choice midfield of
Tom DeKoning (Ruck) Cripps (Ruck Rover) SPS (Rover) Williams (Wing) Walsh (Center) & Martin (Wing) is exciting.
Bigger concern is key defensive depth, CCurnow and our small forward stocks - I’d expect Murphy to move into fwd 50
I think Jack is a decent player but not a true mid, he is a competitor but I wouldnt call him a class big bodied mid.
More of a 3rd string rotation when you have injuries or need a lift and something different. I also see his future at the club unknown and I wouldnt be counting on him being on the list long term.
Setterfield is a good B grader but doesnt get real big numbers or have that real class disposal, probably along the lines of Dunkley from the Dogs who plays his role but isnt at the level of the Bont or MacRae.
Think we need another decent sized mid with a bit of class, the real good teams have three or four A graders in the middle and we fall away after Cripps and Walsh IMO...Martin has that class but doesnt seem ever destined for a FT midfield role but more of a shock trooper who you throw in the middle for a lift when we are in trouble but will play more time forward.
Agree on the defensive depth and we will be forced to take Oscar McDonald as insurance Imho.....I think Durdin and Fogarty will give us a lift in the small forward area and my personal view is that Durdin will be a very exciting player who can fill Eddies position.
Charlie Curnow remains a player who is a bonus if he plays but I wouldnt be building a game plan around him just yet until he proves he can stay on the park. Like your thoughts on Williamson, I like tall wingers and he is such a good kick he could be our Issac Smith providing he too can remain injury free..
I'm a little bit different to most fans, too many front line mids and they just get in each others way, you got to have a mix of Generals and Foot-Soldiers to win a war!
I notice the Handbaggers have noted this, and now only resort to all the Handbagger mids in the middle at once when they run out of ideas and even then it rarely works!
That's what Custer said :)
That's what Custer said :)
Actually Custer was a solo Lt. General and a great example, he had too many foot-soldiers and not enough Generals!
He was defeated by a Sioux army of three tribes led by three Chiefs, Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull and Gall.
When I look at AFL clubs, I see a range of imbalance, look at the Filth coaching division, more coaches than players that is probably doomed to fail. Coaches becoming obstacles and excuses for other coaches!
Look at our midfield, too many foot-soldiers and not enough Chiefs! Maybe our F50 has too many Chiefs and not enough foot-solders, our D50 is the only section that looks balanced.