This one is coming up, with tickets now on sale. May not be easy to get a place.
Just goes to show how starved of footy we all are - a sell-out to a scratch match......
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-set-to-play-oscar-mcdonald-against-saints-as-he-vies-for-spot-20210303-p577j2.html
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-set-to-play-oscar-mcdonald-against-saints-as-he-vies-for-spot-20210303-p577j2.html
Good luck to him. He'll probably need it.
Are there any tickets left?
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/carlton-set-to-play-oscar-mcdonald-against-saints-as-he-vies-for-spot-20210303-p577j2.html
Why doesn’t that fill me with confidence? :-\
I guess Oscar is going to be used as back up for Pittonet. Hopefully he is soaking up everything Matty K has to say.
Stocker omitted?
Stocker omitted?
The squad has been reduced to 26 from the 27 we used in the practice match.
Stocker got very limited game time and he may be building fitness. However, Gibbons and O’Brien had similar limited game time too.
Stocker better off getting a full game in the 2s than 10% game time in the 1s.
Teague will make him earn it!
Like the praccy match last week, looking for a good showing from our boys. With the season just a few weeks away against the best in the business, need a good, serious hit out vs real opposition. The two sides on show tonight have big expectations in 2021, in some ways, the season starts now.
Quick sides are going to trouble us.
Supposedly we have an abundance of defenders.
According to the CFC twitter feed, McKay has rolled his ankle and will take no further part.
We have many players who haven't touched it, Martin being the most notable.
There's no secret about how Ratten coached teams will play. Fast, express, then c.
According to the CFC twitter feed, McKay has rolled his ankle and will take no further part.
Just confirmed on the coverage.
Has Oscar McDonald earned the last list spot based on his efforts tonight?
Big tick to the recruiters.
Williams and Saad CLEARLY improve our side.
Big tick to the recruiters.
Williams and Saad CLEARLY improve our side.
Zac has been excellent, Saad not so good IMO.
Defence is out of shape, the last goal there was about 5 players and 1 Carlton between the ball and the StK goalie.
Pitto BOG for us.
Big tick to the recruiters.
Williams and Saad CLEARLY improve our side.
It's a pity none of our other players improve our side.
Too many of our players are ball watching and not staying with other players.
Always chasing.
There's no secret about how Ratten coached teams will play. Fast, express, then c.
And we can't cope. Im tipping we won't beat them for a long time.
Zac has been excellent, Saad not so good IMO.
Saad was dominant last game.
Saad was dominant last game.
Not tonight Irene
Doc needs to find some touch and form pronto.
Doc needs to find some touch and form pronto.
He’s having a ‘mare.
Take away from first half:
Its astounding the lack of awareness of our players of their players free in space (or allowing them to get into space in numbers).
He’s having a ‘mare.
You know I think SPS is an ordinary footballer but that kick to him from Doc coming out of FB was atrocious. Landed short, StK player took it away and left him in his wake.
Too many VFL types out there
Durability of our players big problem
Dow, Cripps need to lift
Doc and Walsh couldn’t kick worse
SPS is not a defender and never will be
E Curnow kicking into Fwd 50 is a disaster
Too one paced .., need some Honey to break it up
Saints are flying, won their last game by 90
JSOS putting his hand up for R1
SPS is becoming a worry.
He is a good player who lacks the mindset of a defender.
You can't wait for the ball to come to you in the defensive 50, you need to attack it. If you wait, you give away a goal.
Willo isn't setting the world on fire either.
Setters is a better option down back. He plays like a defender, but we need him to change through the middle i think.
We need stocker to come on, but there is the suggestion that he is a better inside mid than defender anyway.
Saad was dominant last game.
Take away from first half:
Its astounding the lack of awareness of our players of their players free in space (or allowing them to get into space in numbers).
Manning up is one of our weakest points, we just dont stick close enough and our small defenders let the opposition small forwards have too much space to work in. Its fine running up and down the ground being showy but when the opposition have some decent players who can hurt you they have to be manned up tight and not allowed room.
Cripps vs Steele....we just dont learn or plan properly.
What is wrong with Docs kicking!
Twice in a minute!
Once earlier.
Spanking. Weiters hurt now. Thats him, Newnes and H all hurt.
Spanking. Weiters hurt now. Thats him, Newnes and H all hurt.
Weiters is the biggest worry....looks like he hurt his knee
Dow has handed off the last two goals. He’s playing well!!
Read something about Fisher and how he came to the conclusion (with Teagues suggestion) that he should become a small forward.
He's worked all pre-season with that in mind...and he's nailing it.
....of course Huddo starts saying the same stuff. lol
Not tonight Irene
Still going ok with that goal. ;)
LOB, first kick OOTF.
Still going ok with that goal. ;)
Thats about it ;)
LOB, first kick OOTF.
If we keep getting injuries, LOB might be picked R1....won't deserve it on form.
Thats about it ;)
Thats more than plenty of others out there.
Comedy of errors.
We need to capitalise at the moment.
We have the momentum, we are trying our best to stuff it up.
LOB hasn't got the speed of the game yet.......still.
What's happening? I've got almost no 'net and I have no idea what's going on.
Plowman the latest injury
What's happening? I've got almost no 'net and I have no idea what's going on.
3/4 time. StK 98 Carlton 80.
A few injuries. Weierting, Harry, Newnes, Plowman. Not sure how serious.
Sounds like half the side is injured!
What's happening? I've got almost no 'net and I have no idea what's going on.
Ill Summarise
Players dropping like flies (H, Newnes, Weiters, Plow)
Opo is space unmanned at every contest
Cant stick a tackle to save ourselves
Quick sides will trouble us
Martin, Doc, SPS awful, plenty of mates.
When is it holding the ball?
When its against Carlton!
When we tackle, why don't we get incorrect disposal?
3/4 time. StK 98 Carlton 80.
A few injuries. Weierting, Harry, Newnes, Plowman. Not sure how serious.
Newnes and H ankles, precautionary. Weiter knock on the hip, won't risk him Id say. Not sure what Plow did.
3 goals down with 1q to go is better than I was expecting earlier. And that goal by Saad is quality.
What's happening? I've got almost no 'net and I have no idea what's going on.
3/4 time. Down by 3 goals.
Quaters going long. Fatigue taking over.
Our players falling over.
McKay ankle (off)
Newnes ankle (off)
Weitering hip/knee (off....getting work)
Plowman maybe an ankle (battled on.)
Its a game of pinball. Plenty of goals. Few stoppages.
JSOS, picking himself for R1
Oscar McDonald, picking himself for a list spot.....although he hasn't been great....just serviceable.
Fisher might keep Eddie Betts out of the side.
Williams and Saad both hitting the scoreboard.
Pittonet is our #1 ruck for the year if he is fit.
Murphy playing forward and thats where he should stay.
Ed Curnow....is he still playing???
I'd take Pitto off for the last, let OMac and Moore ruck.
How is Cripps going?
Newnes and H ankles, precautionary. Weiter knock on the hip, won't risk him Id say. Not sure what Plow did.
Thanks.
How is Cripps going?
Quiet, he aint the problem.
How is Cripps going?
Doing Cripps things, but not dominant.
Spending some time forward
Nearly repeated his goal of the year efforts early, but dished it off.
Gave away a free for a late hit....nothing to worry about....just throwing his weight around.
Quiet, he aint the problem.
Does he have Steele for company again and how is he going?
Who are the Saints rucking given Pittonet seems dominant?
Moore or McDonald?
Id go out this week and hire the best NRL tackling coach and pay him $1M a year to teach our blokes to tackle. Its a joke.
Id go out this week and hire the best NRL tackling coach and pay him $1M a year to teach our blokes to tackle. Its a joke.
That doesn't sound encouraging.
Does he have Steele for company again and how is he going?
Who are the Saints rucking given Pittonet seems dominant?
Moore or McDonald?
I don't think there is much tagging going on. Not enough stoppages to find out.
Saints are rucking Hunter....only been at the saints for a few weeks.
Moore has been unsighted IMO.
McDonald has been shifted forward largely since Harry went down. He has kicked 2.
Pittonet - 32 hitouts, 2 goals 14 touches, 7 clearances.
McDonald - 2 hitouts, 2 goals 11 touches, 1 clearance
Moore - 0 hitouts, 0 goals, 3 touches, 0 clearances
Moore just touched it again....well i say touched it. It hit him in the back of the head in a 1 on 1 marking contest.
::)
I don't think there is much tagging going on. Not enough stoppages to find out.
Saints are rucking Hunter....only been at the saints for a few weeks.
Moore has been unsighted IMO.
McDonald has been shifted forward largely since Harry went down. He has kicked 2.
Pittonet - 32 hitouts, 2 goals 14 touches, 7 clearances.84%
McDonald - 2 hitouts, 2 goals 11 touches, 1 clearance 64%
Moore - 0 hitouts, 0 goals, 3 touches, 0 clearances 43%
FYI, TOG in red.
I don't think there is much tagging going on. Not enough stoppages to find out.
Saints are rucking Hunter....only been at the saints for a few weeks.
Moore has been unsighted IMO.
McDonald has been shifted forward largely since Harry went down. He has kicked 2.
Pittonet - 32 hitouts, 2 goals 14 touches, 7 clearances.
McDonald - 2 hitouts, 2 goals 11 touches, 1 clearance
Moore - 0 hitouts, 0 goals, 3 touches, 0 clearances
Ok...just had a look at the stats and Steele has had a good game and is the leading possie winner.
Moore looks like he misses and McDonald is in...
Who is playing on Lonie...or not playing on him?
I don't think there is much tagging going on. Not enough stoppages to find out.
Saints are rucking Hunter....only been at the saints for a few weeks.
Moore has been unsighted IMO.
McDonald has been shifted forward largely since Harry went down. He has kicked 2.
Pittonet - 32 hitouts, 2 goals 14 touches, 7 clearances.
McDonald - 2 hitouts, 2 goals 11 touches, 1 clearance
Moore - 0 hitouts, 0 goals, 3 touches, 0 clearances
Thanks for the info...
Ok...just had a look at the stats and Steele has had a good game and is the leading possie winner.
Moore looks like he misses and McDonald is in...
Who is playing on Lonie...or not playing on him?
Lonie? Not playing
JSOS def plays RND 1
JSOS def plays RND 1
He might be playing FF R1!
Lonie? Not playing
Kicked 4 goals?
2 goals down halfway through the last. The boys aren't rolling over.
Hmmmm
1 goal down, with injuries and a few non contributors. Fair effort.
Kicked 4 goals?
I meant not playing....on him....as in nobody.
FYI, 5 of the last 6 goals.
1 goal down.
6.38 to go.
LOB getting back on the last line to take a nice intercept mark......except he runs under it with no pressure and doesn't get a fingernail on it. Goal to saints.
LOB should play 2's until we no longer have 22 other fit blokes on our list.
My 3 BOG, in any order.
Fisher
Silvagni
Pittonet
......with apologies to Walsh and Williams
112-99, 23 minute mark of the last.
118-99, 25 minute mark. Reckon the Saints have it now.
I meant not playing....on him....as in nobody.
FYI, 5 of the last 6 goals.
1 goal down.
6.38 to go.
Saad playing on Higgins?
Full time. Saints 125 Carlton 99.
Kicking nearly 100 points with injuries and non contributors - there's enough to work with and enough signs IMO.
Saad playing on Higgins?
Who can tell.
He's spent time marking him.
Just then they had Oscar McDonald defending him inside defensive 50.
Quiet achiever of the night.
Lachie Fogarty, 14 touches, 7 tackles (game high).
224 points in a game of footy. Sheesh.
Coulda been a lot worse given how we played, as Pauly said, plenty to work with. Looked a lot rustier than last week.
Our rock solid defence has some worries after tonight.
Weiters returned, but i don't think is right.
Newman is already out.
Marchy is still out.
Stocker....still unsighted largely.
Plowman played out the game but might not be right.
SPS copped a corkie late, but his issue was not fitness related.
Doc got plenty of it, and gave plenty of it up. Not what we expect from him.
Willo....still does not impress me. DIdn't do much wrong, didn't do much worthy of praise.
Saad....if you wanna put him there, is fine. He is a winger more than a defender for me.
Setterfield spent time back and was solid without being spectacular. Still needs to be a bit quicker to dispose of it on occasions but ok.
Our ruck solid defence has some worries after tonight.
Weiters returned, but i don't think is right.
Newman is already out.
Marchy is still out.
Stocker....still unsighted largely.
Plowman played out the game but might not be right.
SPS copped a corkie late, but his issue was not fitness related.
Doc got plenty of it, and gave plenty of it up. Not what we expect from him.
Willo....still does not impress me. DIdn't do much wrong, didn't do much worthy of praise.
Saad....if you wanna put him there, is fine. He is a winger more than a defender for me.
Setterfield spent time back and was solid without being spectacular. Still needs to be a bit quicker to dispose of it on occasions but ok. quote]
Ed
All you want to hear from these games is that the kids are improving, the senior blokes get through unscathed and look like they're going to have a good year and that we play some decent footy.
Wins aren't important right now.
Our stars don't have to dominate.
The worst is hearing about weiters, McKay and plowman going down.
Thats a spine that leaves us very fragile.
Cripps - Very quiet by his lofty standards and played like he had a fair bit of rust in the tank.
Cuningham - A couple of nice moves and a lovely goal but he really doesn't impact
Curnow - Bad game. Not sure who he was on and whether he impacted their game but had very little impact for us.
Docherty - Very concerned with his form at the moment
Dow - Not as good as last week, but good enough to get a game round one I think
Fisher - Love watching this kid. Certainly has an X factor. I think he's in for a good year.
Fogarty - Quiet this week which is disappointing.
Gibbons - Didn't play at all? Is he in trouble?
Jones - Our best defender and close to BOG
Martin - So quiet early I didn't realise he was playing. Got a couple of touches towards the end but will need to imporve.
McDonald - Showed enough to be ahead of Moore in the pecking order, but then again my daughter shows more than Moore
McKay - No impact before going off
Moore - As expected
Murphy - Hmmmm, a couple of nice bits, but wouldn't want his position to be dictated by this game. Mind you there were plenty of others who showed less!
Newnes - Injured but was no impacting
O'Brien - A few touches but came on when everyone else was stuffed so understandable.
Petrevski-Seton - Frustrating to watch as usual. Just not hard at it for a backman and I'm not sure playing him on the ball would make any difference.
Pittonet - Just a great four quarter effort. Thought he was BOG.
Plowman - Not great
Saad - Reasonable game and showed glimpses of what we can expect.
Setterfield - In and out of the game but I thought he was one of our better players
Silvagni - Started of badly, I thought, but worked hard all night and was one of our best in the end. I'd play him round one.
Walsh - Uncharacteristically average and bordering on bad?
Weitering - Was going OK until injured. No ice on his knee after the game which was great to see, so it might be a hip?
Williams - Really good. Exciting prospect. Only failing was him missing 2 relatively easy shots on goal.
Williamson - Not a good game from Willo. Looked out of sorts.
From a team perspective, we were incredibly fumbly and as others have noted our tackling was as shizen as I've seen. Didn't miss many shots on goal, which was a positive. Our offensive plays still make primary use of the "just kick it to a pack" strategy and when we try to hit up a forward target our delivery is still, for the most part, terrible. Saints look like the real deal and have adopted the Tigers chaos approach, so it might have a been a reasonable result considering.
Wins aren't important right now.
What do you actually "win" at this time of the year?
Cripps - Very quiet by his lofty standards and played like he had a fair bit of rust in the tank.
Cuningham - A couple of nice moves and a lovely goal but he really doesn't impact
Curnow - Bad game. Not sure who he was on and whether he impacted their game but had very little impact for us.
Docherty - Very concerned with his form at the moment
Dow - Not as good as last week, but good enough to get a game round one I think
Fisher - Love watching this kid. Certainly has an X factor. I think he's in for a good year.
Fogarty - Quiet this week which is disappointing.
Gibbons - Didn't play at all? Is he in trouble?
Jones - Our best defender and close to BOG
Martin - So quiet early I didn't realise he was playing. Got a couple of touches towards the end but will need to imporve.
McDonald - Showed enough to be ahead of Moore in the pecking order, but then again my daughter shows more than Moore
McKay - No impact before going off
Moore - As expected
Murphy - Hmmmm, a couple of nice bits, but wouldn't want his position to be dictated by this game. Mind you there were plenty of others who showed less!
Newnes - Injured but was no impacting
O'Brien - A few touches but came on when everyone else was stuffed so understandable.
Petrevski-Seton - Frustrating to watch as usual. Just not hard at it for a backman and I'm not sure playing him on the ball would make any difference.
Pittonet - Just a great four quarter effort. Thought he was BOG.
Plowman - Not great
Saad - Reasonable game and showed glimpses of what we can expect.
Setterfield - In and out of the game but I thought he was one of our better players
Silvagni - Started of badly, I thought, but worked hard all night and was one of our best in the end. I'd play him round one.
Walsh - Uncharacteristically average and bordering on bad?
Weitering - Was going OK until injured. No ice on his knee after the game which was great to see, so it might be a hip?
Williams - Really good. Exciting prospect. Only failing was him missing 2 relatively easy shots on goal.
Williamson - Not a good game from Willo. Looked out of sorts.
From a team perspective, we were incredibly fumbly and as others have noted our tackling was as shizen as I've seen. Didn't miss many shots on goal, which was a positive. Our offensive plays still make primary use of the "just kick it to a pack" strategy and when we try to hit up a forward target our delivery is still, for the most part, terrible. Saints look like the real deal and have adopted the Tigers chaos approach, so it might have a been a reasonable result considering.
Wow, all that and we were within a goal of a team that is clearly on the rise and will be there when the whips are cracking in 2021. Maybe a little more positivity required, without a single tall forward we hit the 100 mark (nearly).
Wow, all that and we were within a goal of a team that is clearly on the rise and will be there when the whips are cracking in 2021. Maybe a little more positivity required, without a single tall forward we hit the 100 mark (nearly).
I tend to agree. It wasn't a performance you could really be proud of, but apart from a couple of junk time Saints goals, we were within striking distance late in the game.
You can't read too much into this game, as you never know what training block clubs are running, I thought we looked sluggish, but it may well be we are in a heavy training block which explains the heavy leg appearance.
You can't read too much into this game, as you never know what training block clubs are running, I thought we looked sluggish, but it may well be we are a heavy training block which explains the heavy leg appearance.
Teague said in the post match that the players have been pushed pretty hard in recent times, so that's a fair point.
Any update on Weeters and Harry?
2020...time to perform or get punted. First player in that group is SPS on that lacklustre performance.
Haven't yet watched the game but it sounds like many of our woes of old are still with us?
Has Oscar McDonald earned the last list spot based on his efforts tonight?
Not as a ruckman (except to a very limited extent) but DEFINITELY as a tall forward/defender to provide depth and a tall option to Plowman against teams with three tall marking forwards.
Didn't watch the game either so can only go by the stats but the Saints small forwards all had plenty of the ball and kicked goals. SPS, Saad and Docherty do not defend and the game was a shoot out and we can't seem to find that happy medium between defense and attack. Saad is a good recruit as a rebounder but the other two I mentioned need to lock down more if we are going to play a free wheeling game vs the better teams.
Zac has been excellent, Saad not so good IMO.
Big tick to the recruiters.
Williams and Saad CLEARLY improve our side.
1.5 million and a pick 8 so they should
Saad leaked goals in first half
Is purely a player in the easiest position on the ground
Williams is a very good player but he did nothing in the last
We are asking a player to become a mid week in week out after he has played virtually all his career in defense
So he should on $850000 a year for 5 years
Martin by the way is so overrated
What has he achieved in his career so far
Poor recruiting over the last 5 years
I look at the list overall and there are too many average players
IMO we overate our list we have for the last 20
Years
5 spoons
13 bottom 6 finishes
4 final appearances one a token
No preliminary final experience
There is your proof we overate our list
We lack pace so we recruit 3 establish players who are quick give up picks and salary cap space and the presumption is we will be ok
We won’t progress unless SPS Dow OBrien etc get better
Geez SOS is a sour bugger couldn’t even smile when Jack took a nice mark and kicked a goal!
Get over it hate Liddle if you must not the club.
McDonald before Moore every day of the week as backup his two goals while we were behind and rearranging the forward line were enough and can fill in on backline when needed, also at least compete in the ruck for 5 minutes
We did alright for no tall specialist forward, or chb when weitering got corked or ruck when pittonet rested
Not as a ruckman (except to a very limited extent) but DEFINITELY as a tall forward/defender to provide depth and a tall option to Plowman against teams with three tall marking forwards.
Yeah, backup ruck purely to give pittonet a breather and save Jones/McKay from that fate.
His efforts to fill a need and do so to an afl standard is what we are lacking at both ends of the ground.
Depending on how our injuries go, he'd be a smoky to not only get on the list, but play r1!
IMO we overate our list we have for the last 20
Years
5 spoons
13 bottom 6 finishes
4 final appearances one a token
No preliminary final experience
There is your proof we overate our list
We lack pace so we recruit 3 establish players who are quick give up picks and salary cap space and the presumption is we will be ok
Firstly, past history does not give an accurate presentation of our current list.
Your little stat shaming exercise would be similar to what Richmond's was before they went nuts and won 3 out of 4 flags. By your logic, tigers had a crap list because it was crap in the past. Doesn't make sense.
Finally, all the other negativity aside....our recruiting actually targeted areas of need...
and filled them. When was the last time you could say that?
As for cap space... you have to pay someone. Your list analysis says we lack talent... and you don't want to pay the new recruits... so who are you paying? Gotta pay someone, might as well be new recruits who fill a need, rather than the hacks who have given us nothing over the past 20 years.... right?
You can't have it both ways.
There is a couple of things I take out of this, Cripps and McDonald are very average talls as resting forwards. I thought McDonald looked much better behind the footy, but his disposal is ordinary, but he's not alone in that regard. Again this may be because of our current training block. Cripps doesn't even naturally exhibit basic overhead marking skills, why would he as he's always been a midfielder. I think these opinions that he could be a A-Grade KPF are greatly overstated and should not be listened to any further. McDonald is continually out of position as a forward.
Moore looks more agile and aware as an on the ball tall/heavy body, he makes faster better decisions than McDonald, but Moore is not nearly as useful as a marking target. McDonald might not be a good tap ruck option, but he is quite useful in the ruck when the ball hits the deck as he acts immediately like an extra midfield member. So Moore might be useful as a niche tagger for some other big bodied midfielder, but McDonald looks better in a KPP role. It's a coin toss between them and injuries will perhaps that'll determine the choice more than player skills!
I'm not sure how Williams, Martin and Fisher can fit together inside F50, even though they can generate opportunities, they missed just as many getting in each others way or waiting for the other to act/strike. Too many times it was left to Newnes to attack the contested footy. Williams shows very good awareness in close in traffic, better than Fisher or Martin.
Cripps can and will outmark midfielders 90% of the time.
As dodgy as it was, cripps dominated as a tall forward in aflx whenever that was around.
1.5 million and a pick 8 so they should
Saad leaked goals in first half
Is purely a player in the easiest position on the ground
Williams is a very good player but he did nothing in the last
We are asking a player to become a mid week in week out after he has played virtually all his career in defense
So he should on $850000 a year for 5 years
Martin by the way is so overrated
What has he achieved in his career so far
Poor recruiting over the last 5 years
I look at the list overall and there are too many average players
IMO we overate our list we have for the last 20
Years
5 spoons
13 bottom 6 finishes
4 final appearances one a token
No preliminary final experience
There is your proof we overate our list
We lack pace so we recruit 3 establish players who are quick give up picks and salary cap space and the presumption is we will be ok
We won’t progress unless SPS Dow OBrien etc get better
You wouldn't be a good friend of John Hollingsworth, would you? ;) ;) ;D
Proof will be in pudding as always
As for Richmond
Their recruiting is the best in the business
Particularly in the last 4 years
They have depth
Williams Saad Mc Govern Martin
Those 4 combined cost us 3 million a season
We given up draft picks to get 2 of them
Liam Baker gets rookied running around for Subi
Is better than all of them
On less cash
9 of Richmond’s last 2 premiership teams contain players who were not top 50 picks in the National Draft
Dow SPS OBrien all too 10 picks haven’t delivered so far
Good List Management is the key to success these days
It’s the game breaker
Re: Mcdonald, he wasn't expected to be a ruckman, he has only ever played down back so its a bit unfair to judge him on that skillset.
Moore has been less than hopeless and has no idea about any facet of the game and has no place on our list.
Proof will be in pudding as always
As for Richmond
Their recruiting is the best in the business
Particularly in the last 4 years
They have depth
Williams Saad Mc Govern Martin
Those 4 combined cost us 3 million a season
We given up draft picks to get 2 of them
Liam Baker gets rookied running around for Subi
Is better than all of them
On less cash
9 of Richmond’s last 2 premiership teams contain players who were not top 50 picks in the National Draft
Dow SPS OBrien all too 10 picks haven’t delivered so far
Good List Management is the key to success these days
It’s the game breaker
So tigers recruiting in the last 4 years has been best in the business. But the team that won their first was arranged prior to 4 years ago. Which is when their performances were akin to ours....which you used as the benchmark for a crap list.
I'm not saying or list is good bad or otherwise, just pointing out that your negative comments are exaggerated and over the top.
You could make the same point without the need for stretching the truth beyond a reasonable level to the point where it is just wrong.
Cripps can and will outmark midfielders 90% of the time.
As dodgy as it was, cripps dominated as a tall forward in aflx whenever that was around.
AFLX ,.............. really it was virtually a non-contact joke?
Resting in F50, Cripps doesn't get to stand with guys 10cm shorter and 10kg lighter than him. The only time I've seen him effective in F50 marking was when he was allowed to mark coming in unhindered from the side of the pack, and most serious opposition won't allow him that luxury, they block him just like they block Levi. But perhaps our go is having too many of that type to cover them all!
From the video they just showed on SKY, I dunno what's up with steve silvagni, but it looked really poor when he seemingly ignored his own son's goal.
Agree that Cripps as a resting forward is not something I would get carried away with.
He is an inside mid and is as good at that role as there is but Ive watched him several times as a resting forward and he doesn’t fill me with confidence that is as dangerous as many fans like to think he is. Different story when he floats down deep when the ball is in the area and may get a mis match of a midfielder taking him but he has a long way to go to be as dangerous as a Fyfe Martin or Dangerfield when he is actually resting there as teams will use a real defender against him
I suspect Moore can put his CFC jumper in any seldom used draw he has at home.
From the video they just showed on SKY, I dunno what's up with steve silvagni, but it looked really poor when he seemingly ignored his own son's goal.
At which point Jo nudged him and appeared to say "cheer!" and he just remained emotionless. I think him mum Rita was also seen having a word.
At which point Jo nudged him and appeared to say "cheer!" and he just remained emotionless. I think him mum Rita was also seen having a word.
Yep, saw that too. Boorish and ignorant and bloody insulting.
At which point Jo nudged him and appeared to say "cheer!" and he just remained emotionless. I think him mum Rita was also seen having a word.
SOS takes footy very seriously, it's a business not a sport.
In years gone by I got to chat with Jo a few times in the old Members Lunch / Tea Room at Princes Park, the old one before the all glass committee room was built, she was often in there with the boys and her In-laws in between the Reserves and Seniors or at 1/2-time having the silver service lunch, she is a genuinely lovely lady! The boys were always very well behaved and quietly spoken, I think if I recall correctly they were the only kids allowed in that area.
Footy is not a laughing matter for the Silvagni men!
Cripps and McDonald are very average talls as resting forwards.
Just remember, for most of the game, Cripps wasn't 'a' tall forward option, he was THE tall forward option! Cripps resting with Mckay, McGovern or Casboult up there, is a different story.
Saints are flying, won their last game by 90
Not too many flags won in March...... looked a lot like a pre-season, run in front of the footy, bruise free, bully to me!!
same old for me ,the long bomb into our fwd 50 ,does not work when are our COACHES going to change this game plan.
Re:SOS, reckon those images lay to rest how he feels about the club now. Might have been barracking for the Saints, Jack deserves a place in our 22 for rnd1 ahead of McGovern...
Not much in that SOS footage IMO. He's never been a clapping / cheering kind of guy. That nudge and malocchio from Jo was pretty funny.
same old for me ,the long bomb into our fwd 50 ,does not work when are our COACHES going to change this game plan.
Been doing it as long as John Barker has been coaching
Been doing it as long as John Barker has been coaching
Especially dumb when you consider we'd loss H.
Re:SOS, reckon those images lay to rest how he feels about the club now. Might have been barracking for the Saints, Jack deserves a place in our 22 for rnd1 ahead of McGovern...
Talk about projecting.
Sos barely cracked a smile when he kicked a goal... or 10. We are judging him for not guessing at his son kicking a couple in a scratch match?!
Talk about projecting.
Sos barely cracked a smile when he kicked a goal... or 10. We are judging him for not guessing at his son kicking a couple in a scratch match?!
Yep....based on his wife's expression and the elbow she gave him, I think pretending its all ok between him and the club
after he was sacked is hiding from the truth. Credit to Jack for performing after what happened with father and brother and I hope he is rewarded with games ahead of less deserving but higher profile players
Yep....based on his wife's expression and the elbow she gave him, I think pretending its all ok between him and the club
after he was sacked is hiding from the truth. Credit to Jack for performing after what happened with father and brother and I hope he is rewarded with games ahead of less deserving but higher profile players
When SOS was at the club, did he smile? Do you recall him ever letting his emotions get the better of him??
That is normal for him. Nothing new. As i was saying, when he himself was playing, he barely cracked a smile. Thats the type of guy he is. Business...game face....always something to focus on and improve.
Maybe he just noticed a whopping great tomato sauce stain on those white jeans........................
When SOS was at the club, did he smile? Do you recall him ever letting his emotions get the better of him??
That is normal for him. Nothing new. As i was saying, when he himself was playing, he barely cracked a smile. Thats the type of guy he is. Business...game face....always something to focus on and improve.
Agree SOS has the look of a Soviet war monument at the best of times but I felt that look was a bit more intense.
The interview he gave with SEN prior to the draft period explained how he felt and there was nothing positive towards the Carlton football club from SOS. I reckon he would still be hot under the collar and probably not happy seeing Jack in Navy Blue but credit to Jack he seems to have put the footy first and the politics second..
Jack needs to be 100% professional for CFC this year aa well as play well if he is to further his footy career with us or elsewhere. I'm sure he understands that and will be committed to it. SOS needs to support and assist him to do that as a father and not allow his tiff with the club get in the way. Hopefully he will do that and be very dispassionate and professional about it.
The Tigers game is 2 weeks away, and with our injuries combined with last night's performance, omitting Jack (if it were to happen) would certainly raise a few eyebrows.
Firstly, past history does not give an accurate presentation of our current list.
Your little stat shaming exercise would be similar to what Richmond's was before they went nuts and won 3 out of 4 flags. By your logic, tigers had a crap list because it was crap in the past. Doesn't make sense.
Finally, all the other negativity aside....our recruiting actually targeted areas of need...
and filled them. When was the last time you could say that?
As for cap space... you have to pay someone. Your list analysis says we lack talent... and you don't want to pay the new recruits... so who are you paying? Gotta pay someone, might as well be new recruits who fill a need, rather than the hacks who have given us nothing over the past 20 years.... right?
You can't have it both ways.
What you fail to realize is O’ Neal become President in 2013. Four years later the dynasty starts. That’s not a coincidence.
How long has LoGiudence been in the job
Of course Kernahan before that
Pratt Elliott
There lies the problem dude
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/04/garry-lyons-six-takeaways-from-st-kilda-versus-carlton/
What you fail to realize is O’ Neal become President in 2013. Four years later the dynasty starts. That’s not a coincidence.
How long has LoGiudence been in the job
Of course Kernahan before that
Pratt Elliott
There lies the problem dude
So the prez is the problem?
I thought it was the crap list?
I thought it was recruiting?
How long before its the coach??
OK, lets play.
In 2015, we had a bad year, sacked Malthouse and installed Bolton.
In 2016, we went 7 and 15 with a percentage of 79.3%
In 2016, Richmond went 8 and 14 with a percentage of 79.5%.
We played Tigers in R1 (Boltons first game as coach of carlton) and we lost by 9 points.
Swap that result and we finish above the tigers.
People were calling for Hardwicks head. He was nearly sacked.
Tigers kept him, despite being (barely) above what was a wooden spoon club the year before.
Did they have a crap list?
That same list has won 3 of the next 4 grand finals.
It was not the list....despite some saying it was.
Are you part of the 'some' now?
If we win 3 of the next 4.....is it still a crap list?
There will come a time where we stop trying to blame everything that came before us, focus on where we actually are and accept it.
I get it, you are skeptical. You have seen it all before. If it angers you so much, don't watch.
Maybe, just maybe, the tide is turning right before your eyes.
So the prez is the problem?
It does start at the top though right?
A good president finds, appoints and supports a good CEO and they both do the same for coaches, recruiters, list managers, etc.
The crapstorm around SOS departure is just the most visible symptom but the root problem at the club has been attracting really genuine gun person as President.
That's my view on it anyway. We're always going to be pushing crap up a hill until we are able to appoint a decent president.
It does start at the top though right?
A good president finds, appoints and supports a good CEO and they both do the same for coaches, recruiters, list managers, etc.
The crapstorm around SOS departure is just the most visible symptom but the root problem at the club has been attracting really genuine gun person as President.
That's my view on it anyway. We're always going to be pushing crap up a hill until we are able to appoint a decent president.
Sure.
But off-field we are going as best as we've been in the last 2 decades.
On field we are expected to have one of our best years for close to a decade.
So.....do we need to sack the president or not?
Is our President really "the top" though? I suspect not and that others are really pulling the strings.
Is our President really "the top" though? I suspect not and that others are really pulling the strings.
Certainly the case with the SOS sacking. As SOS said, it would have been fine if the reasons for not continuing with him that was discussed between him and the Richmond bloke were made public. Instead, he chose to put out a BS story which has put peoples noses out of joint within the club (as I am a led to believe). Whats done is done now, I don't trust the bloke. As for the prez, what I like about the bloke is that he is seldom seen or heard. If you see him at a function or at the footy, is very approachable and good to talk to.
Too many external power brokers with board connections, and long standing board members like Pratt, Mathieson and LoGiudice who come from a mom-and-pop business background, and thus lack the skills required to run a public business. This has been addressed to a small degree with recent appointments, but those three really need to go IMO.
The Judge seems like a nice guy, and i'm sure he's a genuine Carlton man and wants what is best for the club, but I'm not sure he's President material. It's difficult to get the balance right - you don't want an autocrat who doesn't listen to anyone and brooks no interference, but you also don't want a softie who rolls over and is easily swayed. I think he is more of the latter. The board's flip flopping between young buck and old fart with coaches, and the the constant hiring and firing of same, is disturbing IMO. And the Judge has been involved with the last three or four.
So the prez is the problem?
I thought it was the crap list?
I thought it was recruiting?
How long before its the coach??
OK, lets play.
In 2015, we had a bad year, sacked Malthouse and installed Bolton.
In 2016, we went 7 and 15 with a percentage of 79.3%
In 2016, Richmond went 8 and 14 with a percentage of 79.5%.
We played Tigers in R1 (Boltons first game as coach of carlton) and we lost by 9 points.
Swap that result and we finish above the tigers.
People were calling for Hardwicks head. He was nearly sacked.
Tigers kept him, despite being (barely) above what was a wooden spoon club the year before.
Did they have a crap list?
That same list has won 3 of the next 4 grand finals.
It was not the list....despite some saying it was.
Are you part of the 'some' now?
If we win 3 of the next 4.....is it still a crap list?
There will come a time where we stop trying to blame everything that came before us, focus on where we actually are and accept it.
I get it, you are skeptical. You have seen it all before. If it angers you so much, don't watch.
Maybe, just maybe, the tide is turning right before your eyes.
In any work place if it isn’t meeting it’s targets the reasons start from the top.
What you fail to recognize is what I said about 9 of Richmond’s premiership 22 not coming from top 50 picks in the AFL draft.
Name me the players SOS recruited from non top 50 picks in his 4 years before he cracked the craps and screwed off
Or conversely name me all the spuds he recruited from other AFL clubs who are gone
It would be a long post
Who gave SOS the job
The board because he was a mate of LoGiudice
Now Austin has cashed all his chips in by giving up some picks to get Williams who is ok Saad who is overrated because he doesn’t play tight enough and Fogarty who has done nothing
Add Martin to the mix who is a super squib the most overrated player in the comp who was on 1 million last year and the McGovern trade which is on the path to being one of the worst trades in the last 30 years particularly if McAdam continues his form.
And all Blues supporters should have an interest in Kreuger at Geelong who we gave up for Setterfield not to mention a pick in the 20s
We still have “ the big banana “ theory proud strong and upfront at the club which all stems from the out of touch LoGiudice Pratt’s Mathiesons and Judd’s of this world.
I left TC temporarily
I will leave this site temporarily
This is the year we make our mark
Right!
We have bought in big
My view is our list has more holes than Swiss cheese and you have to recruit damm well to win flag not recruit overrated players with free agency and stupid trades
If you look at what Richmond have done over the last 6 or so years in their recruiting they have
Picked up so many terrific players like Baker, Broad,Short with late picks or rookie picks from virtually nowhere. Look at their list . There is a heap of them. It’s got nothing to do with what they were like ten years ago, 6 years ago. Martin wouldn’t have one Norm Smith if it wasn’t for guys like Broad etc. I say it every year. The best bottom 6 players on Grand Final day win you the Flag Do your own research.
Marion Pickett was easily the best player in the country outside the AFLand we could have picked him up for nothing yet we chose a spud like Deluca.
I am convinced that success now is largely due to List Management and who are your recruiters not so much the coaches .
SOSs recruiting was crap overall.
With what Austin and Brodie did last year I can assume they think the list is up to it and we just need that added pace .
What SOS did at the end of 2018 which was our worst year on record was inexcusable in getting McGovern and Setterfield for 3 picks in the 20s and giving up McAdam who looks good and Kreuger who with Taylor gone and a good run with injuries might be ok too.
It’s narrow minded recruiting
But let’s see how 2021 pans out
Either way I’ll be back to eat humble pie on both sites or you and a few others can tell skeptics like me why we have been so average for so long.
@keogh Too much to go through there, so I'll stick to this.
Your issue is sos hasn't got enough 50+ picks on our list doing well??
There are a few reasons for that...
1. He hasn't had many 50+ picks at draft day because he is always trading up for bigger picks.
2. He trades away decent blokes, and gets great picks back, sometimes throwing in those late picks to get stuff done.
3. Fwiw....
Jack Martin came via psd.....a 50+ pick
Tom Williamson was pick 61
Jack Silvagni was 54?
There have only been a handful of others or rookie picks outside of that.
Would you prefer that we kept Bryce Gibbs?
Or would you prefer the 2 first round picks we got back?
Would you prefer Zachary tuohy? Or the first round pick we got back?
Would you prefer Lachie Henderson? Or the first round pick at got back?
We maximised our draft hand with very little trade value initially. Looking at how many high draft picks we have on our list now (either drafting ourselves or via trade) and compare that to pre sos days.
Any way you slice it, our list is better.
Is it good enough? Well see. Hopefully we can get some talent out of the medical room!
Now Austin has cashed all his chips in by giving up some picks to get Williams
News to me
I was actually more impressed with the kids in the twos than many running around in the ones.
I know it's a different standard but the likes of Carroll, Stocker Gibbons and Owies showed a lot more future upside than SPS, Cunningham and LOB, who just showed more of what we've seen before IMHO.
News to me
Goes back to what i was saying before.
He takes a somewhat valid hypothesis and adds so much Mayo to it that it can't help but be wrong.
Fyi keogh, Williams was a free agent that cost zero picks.
... And bagging Fogarty? He's had what, five minutes at the club?
But the likes of LOB and Cunningham cost real picks, done F all. MacG, cost heaps picks and $$$ wise. March bank another.
Keogh has a point people. SoS didn't get every pick right, but who does?
... And bagging Fogarty? He's had what, five minutes at the club?
Lead the match in takes made with 8 did fogarty.
If he puts in like that every week is a win
But the likes of LOB and Cunningham cost real picks, done F all. MacG, cost heaps picks and $$$ wise. March bank another.
Keogh has a point people. SoS didn't get every pick right, but who does?
Dollars are irrelevant, someone will always get them. Throwing 1.8mil at coniglio didn't get him, we have them, they need to be used.
Nobody gets every pick right, that goes without saying. But we've had more first rounders than any other team during the sos period and that is through shrewd trading. Trading of players that were no good or picks that were no good..... or at least upgraded their value in both instances.
Re McGovern....have a look at what picks we started with and what picks we ended up with after the McGovern trade and he didn't cost as much as you think once you work out what we started with
Goes back to what i was saying before.
He takes a somewhat valid hypothesis and adds so much Mayo to it that it can't help but be wrong.
Fyi keogh, Williams was a free agent that cost zero picks.
And 850000 a season for 5
He ain’t worth that
Combined with Mc Govern, Martin Saad Setterfield money and draft picks
Collectively
On the Mc Govern trade it was very detailed and confusing Basically we gave pick 13 to Sydney in exchange for pick 26 and 28
Sydney also gave Adelaide pick 40
We traded away pick 26 and 28 plus Shane McAdam who we had as compensation for finishing last.
On top of all this we received a future third round pick and gave the Crows a future fifth round pick.
We did not use that future third round pick in the 2019 draft. Somehow it got used in a deal for GWS to secure Jake Riccardi who like MCAdam looks the goods.
No screwing Mayo there😂
Anyway my last post till we finish the season
I agreed with one poster
Guys like Owies, Honey, Gibbons Cottrell etc impress me more than some others who got games in the senior game
And it all comes back the board
Let’s see how the season pans out
Anyway c u all in about 6 months
But the likes of LOB and Cunningham cost real picks, done F all. MacG, cost heaps picks and $$$ wise. March bank another.
Keogh has a point people. SoS didn't get every pick right, but who does?
He did IMO make some good points, no doubt, but equally you should get your facts right.
Count our blessings we didn't get Shiel, Coniglio and Papley.
Guys like Owies, Honey, Gibbons Cottrell etc impress me more than some others who got games in the senior game
And it all comes back the board
There is no real world day to day and week to week connection between Board and MC, I afraid that to assert that is a confusion of the influence of the Executive over the MC with the influence of the Board.
The primary role of the Board relates to governance and long term planning, not the day to day or week to week decisions.
... And bagging Fogarty? He's had what, five minutes at the club?
I agree. Neither Fogarty nor Williams nor Saad have played a single proper AFL game for us. Let's see what they have to offer first.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2021-zac-williams-hit-carlton-vs-st-kilda-hunter-clark-suspension-afl-match-review-officer-concussion-fox-footy/news-story/9000cbef613c0520000c2b07d922a5da
... And bagging Fogarty? He's had what, five minutes at the club?
Yes, it's really fear of change, no matter what the club does it will be wrong and has probably been like that since the 70s!
@keogh
Too much to go through there, so I'll stick to this.
Your issue is sos hasn't got enough 50+ picks on our list doing well??
There are a few reasons for that...
1. He hasn't had many 50+ picks at draft day because he is always trading up for bigger picks.
2. He trades away decent blokes, and gets great picks back, sometimes throwing in those late picks to get stuff done.
3. Fwiw....
Jack Martin came via psd.....a 50+ pick
Tom Williamson was pick 61
Jack Silvagni was 54?
There have only been a handful of others or rookie picks outside of that.
Would you prefer that we kept Bryce Gibbs?
Or would you prefer the 2 first round picks we got back?
Would you prefer Zachary tuohy? Or the first round pick we got back?
Would you prefer Lachie Henderson? Or the first round pick at got back?
We maximised our draft hand with very little trade value initially. Looking at how many high draft picks we have on our list now (either drafting ourselves or via trade) and compare that to pre sos days.
Any way you slice it, our list is better.
Is it good enough? Well see. Hopefully we can get some talent out of the medical room!
Keogh cops crap all the time on the other site too with his crap going all the way back to the days where he said Ratten was no good. How is that turning out for him. We could win 6 flags and the place would still be no good in his eyes. There's an ignore button on the other site thankfully.
This site also has an ignore option, but you have to dig a little to find it.
keogh has a grand total of 48 posts to his name on here, over a period of 7 or 8 years. I don't think he's all that bad.
Keogh cops crap all the time on the other site too with his crap going all the way back to the days where he said Ratten was no good. How is that turning out for him. We could win 6 flags and the place would still be no good in his eyes. There's an ignore button on the other site thankfully.
I think your Jim are you
Or someone who on TC that doesn’t like what I post or thinks I post negative posts for the sake of it
So one last post for you and everyone else
Facts
In the last 20 years we have
Finished last 5 times
Finished bottom six 13 times
We have played 4 final series one a token because Essendon took drugs
No Prelim appearances
This during a period of equalization
Such as
National draft
Rookie Draft
Pre season draft
Mid season draft
Soft cap
Salary cap
That record my friend is screwing crap
Hopefully there will be change either in the sides on field effort or off it if we are still average
Believe me I want success but I reckon it won’t happen with who is currently on the board
I was actually more impressed with the kids in the twos than many running around in the ones.
I know it's a different standard but the likes of Carroll, Stocker Gibbons and Owies showed a lot more future upside than SPS, Cunningham and LOB, who just showed more of what we've seen before IMHO.
These jokers set a pretty low bench mark, it ain that hard to show a bit (no disrespected to the newbies).
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2021-zac-williams-hit-carlton-vs-st-kilda-hunter-clark-suspension-afl-match-review-officer-concussion-fox-footy/news-story/9000cbef613c0520000c2b07d922a5da
I'm telling you, he should just ring the MRO boss and say Ill sit out round one, the media tribe has spoken.
I'm telling you, he should just ring the MRO boss and say Ill sit out round one, the media tribe has spoken.
Yes, no doubt. I agree.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/560084/match-review-new-blue-banned-star-giant-charged
Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct, Medium Impact and High Contact. The incident was classified as a one match sanction.
1 week with an early plea.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/560084/match-review-new-blue-banned-star-giant-charged
Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Careless Conduct, Medium Impact and High Contact. The incident was classified as a one match sanction.
1 week with an early plea.
Like their blackmail tactics. Code for accept or get two.
I think most of us were expecting a week... for being a goose.
Those wanting for him to be made an example of (Robbo & Co.) will be bitterly disappointed that Williams is not put in the stocks for a public mocking and flogging + 4 weeks suspension. ::)
You would cop that ... if the MRO was consistent.
Dusty, Pendelbury, Cotchin, Dangerfield, Selwood, etc would all get a pat on the back for a similar incident.
You would cop that ... if the MRO was consistent.
Dusty, Pendelbury, Cotchin, Dangerfield, Selwood, etc would all get a pat on the back for a similar incident.
I agree. Given the AFL's aims and objectives, rules etc., it's a fair penalty. Maybe one day consistency will prevail.