Was the obvious choice in the finish. He's 24, has shown he can play, maybe needs a second chance.
Was the obvious choice in the finish. He's 24, has shown he can play, maybe needs a second chance.
Agree.
He showed in the last game that not only is he worth a spot on our list, he might be in the side round 1. A lot of injured taller players on our list. From kp backs, kp forwards and even rucks, injuries across the board and he is a backup to all. It makes sense to play him imo
He showed in the last game that not only is he worth a spot on our list, he might be in the side round 1. A lot of injured taller players on our list. From kp backs, kp forwards and even rucks, injuries across the board and he is a backup to all. It makes sense to play him imo
Agree, he can play a few roles, is a decent size and has earned his place.
Reckon he will play rnd1.
Agree, he can play a few roles, is a decent size and has earned his place.
Reckon he will play rnd1.
I'm not sure the choice was so cut and dry, but I suspect Weitering getting that corky in the practice match secured McDonald's tenure, McDonald was in the right place at the right time!
Yes, I changed my mind after his game against the Saints, particularly as he was playing an unfamiliar role.
Good luck Oscar ... you look much better in Navy Blue 🙂
The right call I guess.
I guess this explains why we cut Ben SOS last year.
Don't get me wrong, I think the kid (BSOS) has promise, but when you need a depth option that can stand up right now it is a relative no brainer and before we roll out the rest of the "gonna be's" currently running around with us, I think we are shifting away from slow heat developers a little and looking more at players with bonafides and need to shrink that pool in line with the shrinking list sizes.
I think the reduction in list sizes played a big part in Ben Silvagni being cut as well as the lack of opportunities due to Covid last year to have real development as a key position player. Oscar McDonald is a ready made player whereas someone like Ben would still be a couple of years away.
Was the obvious choice in the finish. He's 24, has shown he can play, maybe needs a second chance.
Yep
I think the reduction in list sizes played a big part in Ben Silvagni being cut as well as the lack of opportunities due to Covid last year to have real development as a key position player. Oscar McDonald is a ready made player whereas someone like Ben would still be a couple of years away.
Absolutely correct. If Weiters or Jones go down during the year, we have a readymade replacement who at least has enough size to compete. He only got the chop at Melbourne because May and Lever were ahead of him.
He certainly didn't look out of place on Thursday night (unlike Callum Moore in every game I saw him play in Blue).
Struggling with the decision to delist Macreadie and recruit MacDonald???? Doesn’t make much sense to me
Struggling with the decision to delist Macreadie and recruit MacDonald???? Doesn’t make much sense to me
The only explanation is that OMac has shown, in the short time he has been there, that he has more strings to his bow than HMAc.
Struggling with the decision to delist Macreadie and recruit MacDonald???? Doesn’t make much sense to me
Think McDonald is seen as more ready made and battle ready.
Think McDonald is seen as more ready made and battle ready.
It’s the battle ready bit that’s confusing - ask any Dees supporter about him and they’re very pleased to see the back of him and at 24 that’s unlikely to change.
It’s the battle ready bit that’s confusing - ask any Dees supporter about him and they’re very pleased to see the back of him and at 24 that’s unlikely to change.
Not my mate.
He reckons Oscar is exactly what we need. Insurance. I agree.
Many remember me rabbiting on about getting Jack Newnes to the club. "He won't win you a game, but he'll do a role"....and he did just that.....AND won us a game.
Oscar is similar.....will do a role. Can't be relied upon to win you a game, but if you need someone to step up and cover an injury. He is highly qualified.
Macreadie has never shown that he can perform a role. Has the 'potential' to do it one day. But never performed to the extent that Oscar has already done in 2 practice matches.
This goes back to some disagreements i was having with....EB1 i think, in regards to Ben Silvagni (and others). I suggested there'd be plenty of blokes who can and will perform better that Ben right now. Ben has shown us nothing, but the hint of some potential and a nice last name. We need to stop carrying so many of these types on the list for so long. Be smart about it. Recruit a 'discard' like Oscar who will perform at a higher level than a Ben, or Macreadie. Continue to try and recruit a kid in a similar role, or a solid talent from another club, and when McDonald (or whoever) is backup to the backup, then ditch him.
Not my mate.
He reckons Oscar is exactly what we need. Insurance. I agree.
Many remember me rabbiting on about getting Jack Newnes to the club. "He won't win you a game, but he'll do a role"....and he did just that.....AND won us a game.
Oscar is similar.....will do a role. Can't be relied upon to win you a game, but if you need someone to step up and cover an injury. He is highly qualified.
Macreadie has never shown that he can perform a role. Has the 'potential' to do it one day. But never performed to the extent that Oscar has already done in 2 practice matches.
This goes back to some disagreements i was having with....EB1 i think, in regards to Ben Silvagni (and others). I suggested there'd be plenty of blokes who can and will perform better that Ben right now. Ben has shown us nothing, but the hint of some potential and a nice last name. We need to stop carrying so many of these types on the list for so long. Be smart about it. Recruit a 'discard' like Oscar who will perform at a higher level than a Ben, or Macreadie. Continue to try and recruit a kid in a similar role, or a solid talent from another club, and when McDonald (or whoever) is backup to the backup, then ditch him.
Mcdonald and Ben Silvagni are at different stages of their career. Mcdonald is ready to go and Ben was a project player.
I think there is a need for both, we do need instant backup for Jones/JW but we also need a replacement for Jones who isn't getting any younger. It could have been MaCreadie if you didn't want Ben... I won't rehash the political side to the Ben Silvagni argument and I am happy we have at least provided backup for our key backs.
Unfortunately for Ben Silvagni, Harrison Macreadie (and several others around the competition) 2020 did absolutely no favours players who needed significant development to become a senior player. They barely got to play a decent game of footy, and found themselves even further behind the competition.
We have spent a long time blooding our crop of young ones, who are now crossing that 50-game threshold. Bring on the ready-mades to complement the talent, and now.
Richmond did it - they had a core of Cotchin, Martin, Riewoldt, Rance, Grimes and brought in a bunch of ready-mades in Nankervis, Caddy, Houli, Grigg, Townsend, Lambert, Prestia. Sure, they got lucky with those pick-ups, but they also started a run of 3 flags in 4 years. Hawthorn did the same in the early 2010s and got three flags as well.
3 flags would be great, but right now I would settle for a finals appearance.....
Mcdonald and Ben Silvagni are at different stages of their career. Mcdonald is ready to go and Ben was a project player.
I think there is a need for both, we do need instant backup for Jones/JW but we also need a replacement for Jones who isn't getting any younger. It could have been MaCreadie if you didn't want Ben... I won't rehash the political side to the Ben Silvagni argument and I am happy we have at least provided backup for our key backs.
My issue was never with Ben, or Macreadie.
It was what they had shown at their respective stages of their career.
There is a place for a project player....but there is a limit to how long you can have one on your list. We had Adam Hartlett on our list for 7 years i think?!
No point in a project player if they take up a spot on your list for 7 years and they don't deliver.
So given we were in short supply of AFL ready players, especially in KP stocks, ditching Ben (who was not AFL ready) for a player like Oscar (who is) is an easy choice....and that was my argument.
In short, backup for NOW took priority over a succession plan for Jones which may or may not work out.
Worst case scenario and you don't have a kid coming through to take over from Jones (as is our case currently) then you throw $'s at a gun player from another club.....or take the best AFL ready player around.
Its a list management philosophy.
Breed your own when you can.
Beg, borrow and steal when you need to.
Macdonald is young enough to be backup and could also be a bridging player to the next youngster we recruit and or another mature bona-fide afl player.
Not my mate.
He reckons Oscar is exactly what we need. Insurance. I agree.
Of the guys we had challenging for a spot, MacDonald has performed when it mattered - in senior company. Moore hasn't yet. Crocker does sometimes. We haven't seen enough of Maher. But MacDonald is ready to go and fills a need. Our match committee saw it that way, I agree.
Many remember me rabbiting on about getting Jack Newnes to the club. "He won't win you a game, but he'll do a role"....and he did just that.....AND won us a game.
I was not a fan of Newnes, and am I still worried about his long term viability, but he stepped up last year and did what we needed him to do. He was a consistent performer: he had very few really down games and often got his share of the ball. And that last microsecond goal will live in memory.
If MacDonald can do the same, then we have made the right decision. I also have questions about his long term viability, but we need a key defender cum hole filler now.
Oscar is similar.....will do a role. Can't be relied upon to win you a game, but if you need someone to step up and cover an injury. He is highly qualified.
No arguments from me.
Macreadie has never shown that he can perform a role. Has the 'potential' to do it one day. But never performed to the extent that Oscar has already done in 2 practice matches.
Actually, before he was injured, Macreadie looked to be the best of his draft cohort. He didn't panic under pressure. He took some strong marks. His decision making looked good.
Unfortunately, since his back injury he has been a different player. He appears to have lost confidence in his body and he is moving a lot less quickly. That really hurt him, as he just didn't make enough contests. He is cooked, alas.
He also appeared to have lost the joy of playing footy. Maybe he can get it back in the lower grades, but we couldn't afford to keep him on.
Kruddler is right in a way: in the last 2 years he has done less and looked less impressive than MacDonald has done in 2 practice matches.
This goes back to some disagreements i was having with....EB1 i think, in regards to Ben Silvagni (and others). I suggested there'd be plenty of blokes who can and will perform better that Ben right now. Ben has shown us nothing, but the hint of some potential and a nice last name. We need to stop carrying so many of these types on the list for so long. Be smart about it. Recruit a 'discard' like Oscar who will perform at a higher level than a Ben, or Macreadie. Continue to try and recruit a kid in a similar role, or a solid talent from another club, and when McDonald (or whoever) is backup to the backup, then ditch him.
Back in the 1970's and 1980's we would have kept Ben Silvagni on for a couple more years at least, in the hope he clicks mentally. Physically, he has the weapons that Jack lacks. With lists as they are, that cannot happen these days.
I have yet to be convinced that we flicked Ben just to get back at SOS. That sounds too petty even for our administrators. maybe I am wrong, but I doubt it.
Park has shown more in the 2's than Ben did in a season. That has already justified both Park's selection and Ben's delisting.
However, I don't see Park as covering the fastest or the largest: he has his physical limitations. I expect to see us draft more key defender types in the next few drafts, and I expect us to look at other key defenders at other clubs. It makes sense in the recruiting market at present. As Kruddler mentioned, you breed your own when and where you can. For the gaps, you beg, borrow or steal. As we are looked at more favourably, especially if we win consistently, other players will look at us and want to come.
Of the guys we had challenging for a spot, MacDonald has performed when it mattered - in senior company. Moore hasn't yet. Crocker does sometimes. We haven't seen enough of Maher. But MacDonald is ready to go and fills a need. Our match committee saw it that way, I agree.
I was not a fan of Newnes, and am I still worried about his long term viability, but he stepped up last year and did what we needed him to do. He was a consistent performer: he had very few really down games and often got his share of the ball. And that last microsecond goal will live in memory.
If MacDonald can do the same, then we have made the right decision. I also have questions about his long term viability, but we need a key defender cum hole filler now.
No arguments from me.
Actually, before he was injured, Macreadie looked to be the best of his draft cohort. He didn't panic under pressure. He took some strong marks. His decision making looked good.
Unfortunately, since his back injury he has been a different player. He appears to have lost confidence in his body and he is moving a lot less quickly. That really hurt him, as he just didn't make enough contests. He is cooked, alas.
He also appeared to have lost the joy of playing footy. Maybe he can get it back in the lower grades, but we couldn't afford to keep him on.
Kruddler is right in a way: in the last 2 years he has done less and looked less impressive than MacDonald has done in 2 practice matches.
Back in the 1970's and 1980's we would have kept Ben Silvagni on for a couple more years at least, in the hope he clicks mentally. Physically, he has the weapons that Jack lacks. With lists as they are, that cannot happen these days.
I have yet to be convinced that we flicked Ben just to get back at SOS. That sounds too petty even for our administrators. maybe I am wrong, but I doubt it.
Park has shown more in the 2's than Ben did in a season. That has already justified both Park's selection and Ben's delisting.
However, I don't see Park as covering the fastest or the largest: he has his physical limitations. I expect to see us draft more key defender types in the next few drafts, and I expect us to look at other key defenders at other clubs. It makes sense in the recruiting market at present. As Kruddler mentioned, you breed your own when and where you can. For the gaps, you beg, borrow or steal. As we are looked at more favourably, especially if we win consistently, other players will look at us and want to come.
Parks is not a KPD, but rather a 3rd tall or floater.
BSOS was (potentially) a true KPD. They're not like for like.
And what, 6cm odd taller?
Parks is not a KPD, but rather a 3rd tall or floater.
BSOS was (potentially) a true KPD. They're not like for like.
And what, 6cm odd taller?
It's only Ben's surname that keeps his name in the debate, if he wasn't a Silvagni fans would have called for his head long ago, probably starting 5 minutes after he arrived or before he was even drafted. He's a sad story, a bit like Nathan Ablett, all the potential with no work done!
Well said, well summarized and right on point, Kruds & Capt Crash. 👌 👍
He's an upgrade on Callum Moore but still a lemon IMO.
He should be in the VFL all season, if he plays in the seniors, then we are in serious trouble.
He's an upgrade on Callum Moore but still a lemon IMO.
He should be in the VFL all season, if he plays in the seniors, then we are in serious trouble.
I think he will get a few games as that spare parts type player, we have a lot of flaky taller types who get injured and he will be
insurance in terms of having a player with size to fill some gaps.
No world beater and I wouldnt be expecting him to be the answer to Charlie Dixon, Hawkins etc but its whats available and at what cost and he could be value until we get something better. We probably need to target a KP defender along with another classy mid to complete the list.
I think he will get a few games as that spare parts type player, we have a lot of flaky taller types who get injured and he will be
insurance in terms of having a player with size to fill some gaps.
No world beater and I wouldnt be expecting him to be the answer to Charlie Dixon, Hawkins etc but its whats available and at what cost and he could be value until we get something better. We probably need to target a KP defender along with another classy mid to complete the list.
In the words of the song, "He'll be our little wheel until the big wheel comes along".
He'll more than make up for Tomasina Bugg
He'll more than make up for Tomasina Bugg
😆
It's only Ben's surname that keeps his name in the debate, if he wasn't a Silvagni fans would have called for his head long ago, probably starting 5 minutes after he arrived or before he was even drafted. He's a sad story, a bit like Nathan Ablett, all the potential with no work done!
How so?
Year 1 he had a significant shoulder injury. My bad that was his final school year!
2020 was a dud from a developmental perspective - for all young players.
So he was 20 when culled. Big blokes take longer...heard that before?
Had he shown a bit? This from the Club (and yeah, maybe sugar coated to some degree):
Made some promising strides as a key defender for the Northern Blues, playing all bar one match and getting significant game-time against AFL and experienced VFL forwards.
Silvagni also showed his ability to swing up forward, often having an impact and kicking two goals in a quarter against eventual VFL premiers Richmond.
After shoulder surgery disrupted his top-age season, it was a solid first step for Silvagni, who will now hope to elevate his game at both ends as he looks to break his AFL duck.
How so?
@flyboy77 I watch a fair bit of VFA, VFL and TAC Cup, I had great hopes for Ben.
You'll even find past posts on here of me touting the glowing terms he was described in by former school footy coaches like Luke Hodge.
But for all that, and I concede he started at an unlucky time, he just hasn't shown it. I can't even state his intensity reached the level of laconic. There's a reason he never got that AFL chance, he didn't earn it and never really looked like it. Macreadie and even O'Dwyer had him covered, one was busted and the other most on here label a spud or stable pony!
@flyboy77
I watch a fair bit of VFA, VFL and TAC Cup, I had great hopes for Ben.
You'll even find past posts on here of me touting the glowing terms he was described in by former school footy coaches like Luke Hodge.
But for all that, and I concede he started at an unlucky time, he just hasn't shown it. I can't even state his intensity reached the level of laconic. There's a reason he never got that AFL chance, he didn't earn it and never really looked like it. Macreadie and even O'Dwyer had him covered, one was busted and the other most on here label a spud or stable pony!
Bingo!
If he really had strong potential one of the other 17 clubs would have snapped him up, even as a rookie! But crickets and tumbleweeds for Ben. The kid simply might have other interests in life he'd rather pursue than footy.
Bingo!
If he really had strong potential one of the other 17 clubs would have snapped him up, even as a rookie! But crickets and tumbleweeds for Ben. The kid simply might have other interests in life he'd rather pursue than footy.
Playing twos for the Swans who need some KP depth with Alir going to Port, you never know could be J. Silvagni vs B Silvagni later in the season...wonder if Jo and SOS might have the odd elbow jab watching that game?😄
Another point of interest is that there is a young key defender who is a F/S Candidate for us this year. His name happens to be 'Whitnall'. That is all I know of him at the moment, except that he will be playing for the Knights.
Another point of interest is that there is a young key defender who is a F/S Candidate for us this year. His name happens to be 'Whitnall'. That is all I know of him at the moment, except that he will be playing for the Knights.
Nepotism is rampant in the TAC Cup level, there is too much money in the game now days, they all want a slice and ability has little to do with getting some of the gigs. They don't even pick balanced squads, they prioritise the desires of the AFL parent clubs. The old boys network has become so rampant they've sh1t the nest! Expect the F&S to get kiboshed by the AFL very shortly, they've already signalled this might happen and I expect it's now a certainty.
PS; The reason this nepotism is becoming such a problem is because it's endemic, so you are judging F&S picks against other F&S picks none of whom deserve to be there!
Another point of interest is that there is a young key defender who is a F/S Candidate for us this year. His name happens to be 'Whitnall'. That is all I know of him at the moment, except that he will be playing for the Knights.
There was an article on the afl website about father sons......brothers....cousins etc
Listed about 50 players.
We had Whitnall, playing chb from memory.
I think there was a Gleason, the third silvagni, mckay and Hogg as options.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/559913/archer-silvagni-lockett-famous-names-galore-in-21-draft-class
Whitnall playing for the Calder cannons, not knights
There was an article on the afl website about father sons......brothers....cousins etc
Listed about 50 players.
We had Whitnall, playing chb from memory.
I think there was a Gleason, the third silvagni, mckay and Hogg as options.
https://www.afl.com.au/news/559913/archer-silvagni-lockett-famous-names-galore-in-21-draft-class
Whitnall playing for the Calder cannons, not knights
That would be nice. The Knights are a great bunch, but they seem to churn out more also rans. BT will get onside with him. He just loves to talk about the Calder Cannons Football Factory.
He's an upgrade on Callum Moore but still a lemon IMO.
He should be in the VFL all season, if he plays in the seniors, then we are in serious trouble.
Very useful for depth in case of an injury run, like now. Need 32 players, 22 plus depth who are decent at least, to be a highly competitive unit. He's that depth. Can fill a hole in defence in case of injury, or even forward and send Casboult back, as well as pinch hit in the ruck. Sometimes a 2nd chance is what some need, like Butler last year.
To clarify in which TAC team Lance Whitnall played as a junior, the following biography is courtesy Bluesuem.org
cheers Ab
Lance Whitnall
Career : 1997 - 2007
Debut : Round 1, 1997 vs Essendon, aged 17 years, 220 days
Carlton Player No. 1013
Games : 216
Goals : 348
Guernsey No. 8
Last Game : Round 22, 2007 vs Melbourne, aged 28 years, 10 days
Height : 192 cm (6 ft. 2 in.)
Weight : 100 kg (15 stone, 10 lbs.)
DOB : 23 August, 1979
Captain: 2007
All Australian: 2000
John Nicholls Medal: 2006
Leading goalkicker: 1998, 1999, 2000
Rising Star Nominee: Round 1, 1997
An often brilliant, yet much-maligned key forward who captained the Blues in the last of his eleven seasons at Princes Park, Lance Whitnall was born with rare skills, an astute football brain, and a bulky frame that was prone to stack on extra kilos during the briefest of layoffs. His battles with his weight were well-publicised throughout his time at Princes Park, often drawing scathing and ill-informed criticism. The facts are that Whitnall was more than a worthy captain of the Carlton Football Club, and his career record stands comparison with all but the very best of the Blues’ on-field leaders.
Lance came to Carlton with an impressive football pedigree. His father, Graeme Whitnall, played 66 matches for the Blues between 1974 and 1981, while his grandfather Noel had a long and distinguished career in country football. As a youngster, Lance played as a junior with outer-suburban Lalor. From the age of 14 he was remarkably mature in both mind and body, and this translated to dominance on the field. By 1995 he was centre half-forward and captain of the Victorian Under 16 state team, and a year later was a star in the Northern Knights side that won the TAC Cup Under 18 Grand Final. Carlton then drafted him under the father/son rule, and by Christmas 1996, Whitnall was the new custodian of Carlton’s number 8 guernsey. Nicknamed “Banger” at first, then “Big Red” or simply “Red” because of his hair colour, he didn’t lack confidence or self-belief.
To clarify in which TAC team Lance Whitnall played as a junior, the following biopsy is courtesy Bluesuem.org
cheers Ab
The debate was not about Lance, but his son coming through ;)
The debate was not about Lance, but his son coming through ;)
Ah!!..have now re-read your quote .....yes thank you!
A young Whitnall "could" have some potential given the football background of father, gradfather & great grandfather.
Ab
To clarify in which TAC team Lance Whitnall played as a junior, the following biography is courtesy Bluesuem.org
cheers Ab
Lance Whitnall
Career : 1997 - 2007
Debut : Round 1, 1997 vs Essendon, aged 17 years, 220 days
Carlton Player No. 1013
Games : 216
Goals : 348
Guernsey No. 8
Last Game : Round 22, 2007 vs Melbourne, aged 28 years, 10 days
Height : 192 cm (6 ft. 2 in.)
Weight : 100 kg (15 stone, 10 lbs.)
DOB : 23 August, 1979
Captain: 2007
All Australian: 2000
John Nicholls Medal: 2006
Leading goalkicker: 1998, 1999, 2000
Rising Star Nominee: Round 1, 1997
An often brilliant, yet much-maligned key forward who captained the Blues in the last of his eleven seasons at Princes Park, Lance Whitnall was born with rare skills, an astute football brain, and a bulky frame that was prone to stack on extra kilos during the briefest of layoffs. His battles with his weight were well-publicised throughout his time at Princes Park, often drawing scathing and ill-informed criticism. The facts are that Whitnall was more than a worthy captain of the Carlton Football Club, and his career record stands comparison with all but the very best of the Blues’ on-field leaders.
Lance came to Carlton with an impressive football pedigree. His father, Graeme Whitnall, played 66 matches for the Blues between 1974 and 1981, while his grandfather Noel had a long and distinguished career in country football. As a youngster, Lance played as a junior with outer-suburban Lalor. From the age of 14 he was remarkably mature in both mind and body, and this translated to dominance on the field. By 1995 he was centre half-forward and captain of the Victorian Under 16 state team, and a year later was a star in the Northern Knights side that won the TAC Cup Under 18 Grand Final. Carlton then drafted him under the father/son rule, and by Christmas 1996, Whitnall was the new custodian of Carlton’s number 8 guernsey. Nicknamed “Banger” at first, then “Big Red” or simply “Red” because of his hair colour, he didn’t lack confidence or self-belief.
Absolutely. I saw him play for the Knights.