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Re: SPS

Reply #45 –
Quote from: LP on
I can't work out why we leave Weitering anchored in the D50, it plays into the opposition hands.

We need him up the ground and kicking into our attacking zone, he's on of the best long kicks in the competition.

I'll tear my hair out if we end up with Marchbank up the field intercept marking and then spraying the footy like weed killer!

we don't, he gets dragged there by opposition, and he has to react to that or else we end up with a forward without an opponent, or someone else has to go over.

We have a good defense, but an opposition coach knows a few things.

Carltons defense is team oriented.  There is a couple of ways to beat it.

1.  Create seperation.

2.  If you cant create seperation, if they are going to work together, get them to do it as close to goals as possible.

The issue:  It relies on deeper forward entries to create the situation where Liam can come across to help.  He's the chaos player in our backline.  He will win a lot of aerial ball, but he doesnt chop it off and create, he is a defensive player who can create the sort of situation that Richmond feed off.

Weitering is the dangerous one.  Most of the time, the machinations are to get his opponent to drag him closer to goals and be a decoy offensively.

it creates the situation where our defenders have to make a decision.  Do I stay or should I go?  Its what I would do if coaching against us.  Why?  Defenders that make decisions about what they do, are easier to catch out than ones who are simply following an opponent.  So, by dragging Weiters closer to goal, it means he has to stay as the interceptor, or go with his man.  He wont get that right every time, and the time he gets it wrong, odds are his opponent will have plowman for company and thats a win in itself.

Thats why we want marchbank back.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: SPS

Reply #46 –
I partially agree @Thryleon,‍ but we've even left Weitering at FB and had guys like Casboult, Pittonet and McGovern patrolling the HBF.

Despite our D50 success it's very disorganised, there is heaps of room for improvement. We aren't overly blessed with guys who can kick, it should be our priority to make sure the ones who can kick are far enough up the ground to do so!

FWIW, the same applies to SPS. Kicking 15m passes from inside D50 is next to useless, especially when Simmo or Willo was charging up the wing and kicking the footy straight back to the opposition 50m away. Cripps is not a good kick, Setterfield is not a good kick, Walsh, Ed and Casboult are OK. Fisher and Gibbons are OK. Pittonet I haven't seen pass the ball by foot.

Outside of Betts and Martin who are probably already in the F50, Weitering, sMurph and McGovern are pretty good by foot, but all three aren't generally left free in play to make use of that skill.

It's big difference between us and top of the ladder clubs, at the Handbaggers someone like sMurph finds himself at the end of a chain, not being expected to hunt, tackle and win his own footy, but being given a feed from guys like DangerFlog and Selrot.
The Force Awakens!

Re: SPS

Reply #47 –
Quote from: LP on
I partially agree @Thryleon,‍ but we've even left Weitering at FB and had guys like Casboult, Pittonet and McGovern patrolling the HBF.

Despite our D50 success it's very disorganised, there is heaps of room for improvement. We aren't overly blessed with guys who can kick, it should be our priority to make sure the ones who can kick are far enough up the ground to do so!

FWIW, the same applies to SPS. Kicking 15m passes from inside D50 is next to useless, especially when Simmo or Willo was charging up the wing and kicking the footy straight back to the opposition 50m away. Cripps is not a good kick, Setterfield is not a good kick, Walsh, Ed and Casboult are OK. Fisher and Gibbons are OK. Pittonet I haven't seen pass the ball by foot.

Outside of Betts and Martin who are probably already in the F50, Weitering, sMurph and McGovern are pretty good by foot, but all three aren't generally left free in play to make use of that skill.

It's big difference between us and top of the ladder clubs, at the Handbaggers someone like sMurph finds himself at the end of a chain, not being expected to hunt, tackle and win his own footy, but being given a feed from guys like DangerFlog and Selrot.

I disagree.

Our backline is organized.  Very organized.

Thats why the run on of 4 or 5 goals at a time being a feature, is the whole team structure falling to pieces for about 5 to 10 mins in games.  Its also why we lost as many as we did.  Disorganisation creeps in, and its usually on the back of other failures, and the defense having to work hard to cover those positional changes by our opposition.

Else it has been very well organised.  This part of the team has been our weak point for the better part of 20 years, and for the first time ever our defense looks strong, and like they all play for each other.

Its one of Bolton's big ticks because it started under him.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: SPS

Reply #48 –
I agree Thry.

We give up a few goals from defensive turnovers but most opposition scores seem to come from poor decisions and/or poor execution up the ground.

When you really drill down, each of our defenders had good seasons and Weitering was exceptional and should have been first choice for All Australian CHB.

Getting the defence right is an important first step and I think that we have accomplished that.  As much as I admired Simmo, Saad will be an improvement and we will have Marchbank and probably Kemp and Stocker to add to the mix.

The next step is eliminating those turnovers forward of centre and getting full value from our forward 50 entries.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: SPS

Reply #49 –
Quote from: DJC on
I agree Thry.

We give up a few goals from defensive turnovers but most opposition scores seem to come from poor decisions and/or poor execution up the ground.

When you really drill down, each of our defenders had good seasons and Weitering was exceptional and should have been first choice for All Australian CHB.

Getting the defence right is an important first step and I think that we have accomplished that.  As much as I admired Simmo, Saad will be an improvement and we will have Marchbank and probably Kemp and Stocker to add to the mix.

The next step is eliminating those turnovers forward of centre and getting full value from our forward 50 entries.
Be interesting how Saad defends, with Docherty liking to play loose we need to find that balance of defense and attack.
Simmo great as he was could be a weak link in terms of defending and I am hoping Saad is a lot tighter even though there was that report he didnt enjoy being played in a very negative role and that was part of his reasoning on wanting to leave the Bombers.

Re: SPS

Reply #50 –
Too slow
Lacks size
Lacks intensity
Never been dropped should have
Not good enough to play midfield
Another mids pick SOS screwed up

Re: SPS

Reply #51 –
Quote from: keogh on
Too slow (Yet faster than Cripps, Kennedy, Setterfield and maybe even Walsh)
Lacks size (Bigger/Heavier than Fisher or Gibbons)
Lacks intensity (Works inside stoppages well)
Never been dropped should have (Probably true, but form isn't an indicator of ability.)
Not good enough to play midfield (Not sure about this claim!)
Another mids pick SOS screwed up (Was he picked as mid, and what are the other Mid screw ups?)
I think that assessment is a bit over the top, it reads like a need for grievance counselling.

SPS has plenty of upside, but he needs to be used the right way. Not sure BB or the MC did him any favours, I've faith in Teague getting the most out of the playing group as it was a feature of his coaching last time he was here.

I'v mentioned before, our midfield looks horribly slow, but the problem is our engine room is too slow overall, on average we are below par in terms of leg speed. This means the opposition can block our run and spread with just a couple of decent chasers to peg guys like sMurph or Fisher.

It also means the opposition can put a quick negating spud like Jed Anderson or Jasper Pittard on Cripps, because they aren't needed to chase anyone on the outside. Cripps can't get away form them because he is not fast, and because he rarely hurts them physically they can play small on him, even when he does hurt them it's by accident.

Add one or two with leg speed to the rotation, instead of overloading the midfield with slows like Cripps, Setterfield, Ed, Kennedy, Walsh as an all in, and you find they all get more time and space!
The Force Awakens!

Re: SPS

Reply #52 –
Quote from: LP on
I think that assessment is a bit over the top, it reads like a need for grievance counselling.

SPS has plenty of upside, but he needs to be used the right way. Not sure BB or the MC did him any favours, I've faith in Teague getting the most out of the playing group as it was a feature of his coaching last time he was here.

I'v mentioned before, our midfield looks horribly slow, but the problem is our engine room is too slow overall, on average we are below par in terms of leg speed. This means the opposition can block our run and spread with just a couple of decent chasers to peg guys like sMurph or Fisher.

It also means the opposition can put a quick negating spud like Jed Anderson or Jasper Pittard on Cripps, because they aren't needed to chase anyone on the outside. Cripps can't get away form them because he is not fast, and because he rarely hurts them physically they can play small on him, even when he does hurt them it's by accident.

Add one or two with leg speed to the rotation, instead of overloading the midfield with slows like Cripps, Setterfield, Ed, Kennedy, Walsh as an all in, and you find they all get more time and space!
Has hardly Achieved anything in 4 years

Re: SPS

Reply #54 –
Quote from: keogh on
Has hardly Achieved anything in 4 years

Really?

Even though he’s not a natural defender, he did exactly what was asked of him. He will be one of the first picked for many years to come.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: SPS

Reply #55 –
Sammo has a long way to go but I think he's not really a half back.

Teague has got to trust some of our younger players in the middle. Running with Pitto Cripps ed and Setterfield again isn't going to get us very far. Treacle slow.

Dekonig Cripps Williams and Walsh should be the first choice but Cunningham showed a bit in the middle when given a chance. Sammo too - I still remember that 30+ game he had when he tore the Dogs apart. Ed has never had a game like that in his career. Setters neither.

Jack took out Fyfe which won us a game. Did the same with Oliver then went forward and kicked 3.

Dow needs to get fit but if he does he's a midfielder and don't pick him as a fwd pocket.

There are options in the midfield. Teague needs to start trusting them more.

Even Stocker. Plays all his career as an inside mid, gets to the AFL and then he's a half back flank. If you want a half back recruit a half back.

Re: SPS

Reply #56 –
Quote from: DJC on
Really?

Even though he’s not a natural defender, he did exactly what was asked of him. He will be one of the first picked for many years to come.

Couldn't agree more. I don't get the vehement criticism. Although I also thought he'd be better suited as a mid, after looking at his stats as a backman, against his opponent, he's been very effective.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: SPS

Reply #57 –
He was recruited to play midfield
Simple as that
Fair enough in the first couple of years he may play in defense but the last 18 months he has gone backwards.
Saad, Williams, SPS , Docherty need to spend time in the middle

Re: SPS

Reply #58 –
Quote from: DJC on
Really?

Even though he’s not a natural defender, he did exactly what was asked of him. He will be one of the first picked for many years to come.

Keogh bags everyone and everything. I don't take any notice of anything he says.