Carlton Supporters Club

All over bar the shouting. Record shouts here. Enjoy!

It's a bit of a Catch 22

While it's creditable that they performed much better in the second half (and you would want to see that) it sometimes deadens the impact of what went before and gives a bit of a false impression.
We were awful as can be in that first half.

It's a bit of a Catch 22

While it's creditable that they performed much better in the second half (and you would want to see that) it sometimes deadens the impact of what went before and gives a bit of a false impression.
We were awful as can be in that first half.

2nd half was junk time..Freo just had the foot off the gas and gave us some easy goals...we were disgraceful most of the day and lacked spirit.....
Freo are not that good and terrible on the road...thats what makes it worse....

I was out all day. We didn't play that game plan where we zone off and play well off their opposition did we? We get slaughtered everytime. IF Bolton's done that in a winnable game then he can F right off.

Just play to our strengths, as we did against Geelong and Sydney, that's the game style these days anyway.

I was out all day. We didn't play that game plan where we zone off and play well off their opposition did we? We get slaughtered everytime. IF Bolton's done that in a winnable game then he can F right off.

Just play to our strengths, as we did against Geelonflg and Sydney, that's the game style these days anyway.

What I saw of the first qtr, our game plan is:
- Turn it over at every opportunity
- Give away stupid free kicks
- Miss goals dead in front
- Put your team mates under as much pressure as possible
- Hand ball or kick to team mates below their knees
Repeat the above over and over again.

At least we won the second half, we showed some perseverance and resolve which was a small positive. First half was a bad as I have seen and it was like we were still in bye mode and then woke up!
Thought Weitering, OBrien and Silvangi showed a bit outside of Simmo who tries week in week out
Think Silvangi will make a good contested ball mid fielder moving forward

P.S. great effort for Matty Wrights 150th, one for him to remember fondly. Dont worry Suns and Saints supporters, Carlton will keep you off the front pages.

What I saw of the first qtr, our game plan is:
- Turn it over at every opportunity
- Give away stupid free kicks
- Miss goals dead in front
- Put your team mates under as much pressure as possible
- Hand or kick to team mates below their knees
Repeat the above over and over again.

Much the same as the last 15 years then?

At least we won the second half, we showed some perseverance and resolve which was a small positive. First half was a bad as I have seen and it was like we were still in bye mode and then woke up!
Thought Weitering, OBrien and Silvangi showed a bit outside of Simmo who tries week in week out
Think Silvangi will make a good contested ball mid fielder moving forward

we won nothing.
I hate this expression

6-3 to 3.8 ....  they missed some easy shots especially in that third quarter.
It could have been much worse

What I saw of the first qtr, our game plan is:
- Turn it over at every opportunity
- Give away stupid free kicks
- Miss goals dead in front
- Put your team mates under as much pressure as possible
- Hand ball or kick to team mates below their knees
Repeat the above over and over again.

kick over their heads too.
It was like they thought we were wearing our clash jumper today, white jumpers pinpointed all day, by hand and foot...
The first 10-15 mins of the 3/4 we hit teammates with the ball and were much cleaner, then we started fumbling and turning it over again ????

we won nothing.
I hate this expression

Agree...they just shifted down a gear and glided home......Cripps, Simpson and Kruezer showed some pride but that was about it IMO.

6-3 to 3.8 ....  they missed some easy shots especially in that third quarter.
It could have been much worse

More like should have been......the final score flattered us.

A more un-skilled team in the AFL you will not find.....

  David King half time on Fox Footy: "This is horrific. I thought they had bottomed out but it appears there's a trap door. You have to question the rebuild, question everything. I know they say they don't need a priority pick but on what we've seen they need at least one if not two."  

I'm a longtime bluebagger and generally optimistic. Today though..... positivity escapes me.

It was one of the most painful games I've watched. Particularly given we've had a bye, Freo haven't, and haven't won away games.

Haven't seen BB presser yet. Can't imagine what he'll say about what was a sub-AFL performance by a club that is wilting, infected by black beetle or white fly, or maybe it's white ants......

I know there are many who think he may have gone one season too many....and his skills aren't what they once were....but Kade Simpson stands among a group of players who would give their all for the team and is a credit to the jumper.

David King half time on Fox Footy: "This is horrific. I thought they had bottomed out but it appears there's a trap door. You have to question the rebuild, question everything. I know they say they don't need a priority pick but on what we've seen they need at least one if not two." 

Another skinny kid at pick 19 or another 4 GWS players they are about to delist?

We probably need picks 1 and 2......

ta Lods....for that edit

I know there are many who think he may have gone one season too many....and his skills aren't what they once were....but Kade Simpson stands among a group of players who would give their all for the team and is a credit to the jumper.

I admire his effort but having him as our "quarter back" doesn't work. He gets a lot of cheap kicks and the ones that hit the target have usually only traveled 15-20 metres.

I'm a longtime bluebagger and generally optimistic. Today though..... positivity escapes me.

It was one of the most painful games I've watched. Particularly given we've had a bye, Freo haven't, and haven't won away games.

Haven't seen BB presser yet. Can't imagine what he'll say about what was a sub-AFL performance by a club that is wilting, infected by black beetle or white fly, or maybe it's white ants......

The only positives I saw today were in the AA batteries I swapped out of the tv remote at 3 qtr time.

I admire his effort but having him as our "quarter back" doesn't work. He gets a lot of cheap kicks and the ones that hit the target have usually only traveled 15-20 metres.

That may be true in part...I'm not so sure about the cheap kicks...I saw him earn a few today.

But the fact is the only player who could perform his role better is sitting on the sidelines with a set of headphones on his ears.

I admire his effort but having him as our "quarter back" doesn't work. He gets a lot of cheap kicks and the ones that hit the target have usually only traveled 15-20 metres.

x2....shows pride and effort but he should be an accessory player these days rather than the main event still......we dont have a player to replace him either.

I know there are many who think he may have gone one season too many....and his skills aren't what they once were....but Kade Simpson stands among a group of players who would give their all for the team and is a credit to the jumper.

That's true, but he is so past it it's not funny. The fact that someone with his output is still thought of as one of our better players is a tell.

And the Priority Pick is a nonsense issue. We have had 40 odd changes in the last 3 years. Why the hell would one more suddenly make a difference ?

We have changed everything in the last 10 years except a few board members. And Andy Mac took over from Icke in October 2011. Say no more. 

That's true, but he is so past it it's not funny. The fact that someone with his output is still thought of as one of our better players is a tell.

And the Priority Pick is a nonsense issue. We have had 40 odd changes in the last 3 years. Why the hell would one more suddenly make a difference ?

We have changed everything in the last 10 years except a few board members. And Andy Mac took over from Icke in October 2011. Say no more.

Not "thought of"...actually is!...and that's a bigger tell!

Not "thought of"...actually is!...and that's a bigger tell!

I'm not one of those who thinks his output is all that great, but it's obviously relative, so I take your point

x2....shows pride and effort but he should be an accessory player these days rather than the main event still......we dont have a player to replace him either.

We do. His name is Sam Docherty ????

Someone on wikipedia has a mild sense of humour.

(http://home.spin.net.au/boristhebeetle/Andy Mac.png)

Hard to find positives today but thought SPS worked very hard both ways across the ground and never gave up.

Liked his game.

We do. His name is Sam Docherty ????

Different player IMO..Docherty defends as well as rebounds, Simpson is a pure rebounder these days which is fine but you have to hit up your targets more and setup play
better than he does by being a longer more penetrating kick.
An example is Laird of the Crows....doesnt defend much one on one but is a pure rebounder and his kicking is elite...

Luke Ryan kicked a goal because Simmo couldnt be bothered trying to spoil or defend and allowed the ball through to Ryan.......great getting 30 kicks but we need him to stop balls like that ending up an easy goal...not devaluing him as a footballer but he has his limitations these days and should retire IMO.

I'm not one of those who thinks his output is all that great, but it's obviously relative, so I take your point

Watch the "independent" observers of today's game in match reports over the next couple of days and I suspect you'll see Simpson prominent in the best players.

We had two quality players missing today in Murphy and Docherty, players of their calibre leave a big hole in a bottom side, but there's no way that they can be the difference between where we are and where we need to be.
We need to inject two or three quality kids and a couple of ready made players not of the Kerridge, Lamb, Phillips variety.
Easier said than done.

Different player IMO..Docherty defends as well as rebounds, Simpson is a pure rebounder these days which is fine but you have to hit up your targets more and setup play
better than he does by being a longer more penetrating kick.
An example is Laird of the Crows....doesnt defend much one on one but is a pure rebounder and his kicking is elite...

Luke Ryan kicked a goal because Simmo couldnt be bothered trying to spoil or defend and allowed the ball through to Ryan.......great getting 30 kicks but we need him to stop balls like that ending up an easy goal...not devaluing him as a footballer but he has his limitations these days and should retire IMO.

Agreed mate. Docherty is a massive hole in our defence. Massive.

Agreed mate. Docherty is a massive hole in our defence. Massive.

Absolutely...and I'll concede we're missing him much more that I thought we would.
In fact the abandonment of our "supposed" more attacking style this year was probably due to the fact we realised we couldn't do that without him.
It's also thrown a greater burden on Simpson and the other defenders.

Agreed mate. Docherty is a massive hole in our defence. Massive.

Woody..Yep he is...other thing he provides is leadership and a cool head...directing the ball is a important feature of rebounding and Docherty makes safe choices.
The backline with him and ACOS in it looks and feels safe.....Jones and Rowe leading the way makes me nervous...

We can't play Jones, Weitering and Rowe in the same side.

We can't play Jones, Weitering and Rowe in the same side.

Think its time to for Sam to call time...been a great clubman but he is struggling IMO and this new trend of small/mid size forwards leaves us with less options when he plays....
Weitering was Ok today and Jones should have been used on ball a bit IMO....

We can't play Jones, Weitering and Rowe in the same side.

We can if we give Jones a roving role
Let him create his chaos all over the field and give him some time in the ruck as well.

Out the door: Simmo, Daisy and Rowe.

And sure, Simmo was one of our best, but so what.

But again, it ws our midfield that was AWOL (not discounting some horrific f ups by Rowe and Weitering).

Cripps largely held - then Dow, SPS, Fish, O'Brien, Graham , Kerridge, Lang simply way off the pace, literally and metaphorically.

Even my Dockers' mates I sat with were embarrassed - repeatedly - by our efforts.

Positives? None today.

Interesting tweet from Rhys Palmer today:

"Everyone talks about draft picks and developing youth but no one ever talks about culture...."

Think its time to for Sam to call time...been a great clubman but he is struggling IMO and this new trend of small/mid size forwards leaves us with less options when he plays....
Weitering was Ok today and Jones should have been used on ball a bit IMO....

Weitering played like a C grader today. No poise, no skill....

Interesting tweet from Rhys Palmer today:

"Everyone talks about draft picks and developing youth but no one ever talks about culture...."

He's right.

As time has gone on, I've become more and more convinced that Andy Mac is a big part of the problem. Our recent slide started immediately after he took over, and he's in charge of a football department with 4 badly performing teams.

Big questions need to be asked.

Out the door: Simmo, Daisy and Rowe.

And sure, Simmo was one of our best, but so what.

But again, it ws our midfield that was AWOL (not discounting some horrific f ups by Rowe and Weitering).

Cripps largely held - then Dow, SPS, Fish, O'Brien, Graham , Kerridge, Lang simply way off the pace, literally and metaphorically.

Even my Dockers' mates I sat with were embarrassed - repeatedly - by our efforts.

Positives? None today.

Cripps largely held? He had 38 possessions, 16 contested.

Only thing held was his arm or jumper without being given a free kick.

Cripps largely held? He had 38 possessions, 16 contested.

Only thing held was his arm or jumper without being given a free kick.

First half he did nothing. Game over.

First half he did nothing. Game over.

First 1/4 he was quiet... but he had 21 mates

Well, that wasn’t the result I was hoping for for my first live game this season ????

I won’t say anything about the game yet - I need to gather my thoughts - and I would like to focus on off-field issues.

First of all, it was my first train trip to the footy from Geelong and the service, particularly the customer service, was first class.

The social club was the same as always; not great but OK, and I caught up with two cousins; part of my extended family of Carlton supporters.

I got to my seat on the second level; a position that provides a great view of the ground and the plays that are unfolding.  Well, it would if folk could take their seat before quarters start and don’t have to get past me several times each quarter for drinks, snacks and toilet breaks ????

I went to the Victory Room at half time and caught up with some mates over a couple of beers.  Then it was back to applauding our resurgence ????

I then went to the post-game function and listened to the great man Kouta talk about what he hopes for our players and confess that he is only interested in soccer once every four years.

What struck me in all of that is that there is a tangible positive vibe among supporters, despite a woeful on-field performance.  Andy Lee remarked that thought he would be talking to an empty room but the post-game function was packed and members are clearly looking for long term, sustained success and have moved on from the focus on immediate success that got us into the state we’re in.

We can if we give Jones a roving role
Let him create his chaos all over the field and give him some time in the ruck as well.

I think that Jones is a good key defender who is sometimes very good but I think that Weitering and Rowe are also key defenders.
None of them can cut it as key forwards and no side needs three key defenders, particularly as we also have Plowman and Marchbank who can play tall.
I think that we're ruining Weitering, he doesn't know where he fits or what he's supposed to be doing, he should be playing on the best opposition forward week in and week out.
Rowe isn't a long term prospect and we may as well let him finish his time in the VFL and try and lay some foundations for the future.

We had two quality players missing today in Murphy and Docherty, players of their calibre leave a big hole in a bottom side, but there's no way that they can be the difference between where we are and where we need to be.
We need to inject two or three quality kids and a couple of ready made players not of the Kerridge, Lamb, Phillips variety.
Easier said than done.

Agree.

Don’t forget the loss of Gibbs too. Yes he never liked the hard ball but no disputing that Gibbs, Murphy and Doc are clean footballers who usually make good decisions and execute it well.

With those 3 out its no wonder we gone backwards this year.

What were we expecting. Who has come in that are in their level? I will tell you. None!

Our senior core remaining are by and large average to poor ball users by foot. Can draft as many first rounders as we like but will stay a bottom team until we replace the bulk of these sorts off our list.

First 1/4 he was quiet... but he had 21 mates

I didn't mean to crap on him but he was well beaten when it counted.
 Fyfe v Cripps was a first quarter KO for the docker.

Agree.

Don’t forget the loss of Gibbs too. Yes he never liked the hard ball but no disputing that Gibbs, Murphy and Doc are clean footballers who usually make good decisions and execute it well.

With those 3 out its no wonder we gone backwards this year.

What were we expecting. Who has come in that are in their level? I will tell you. None!

Our senior core remaining are by and large average to poor ball users by foot. Can draft as many first rounders as we like but will stay a bottom team until we replace the bulk of these sorts off our list.

Fair post Shawny.

I didn't mean to crap on him but he was well beaten when it counted.
 Fyfe v Cripps was a first quarter KO for the docker.

Yes, Fyfe has been in the doldrums for a season or two, but has bounced back to career best form this year. Has the experience and backup that Cripps doesn't have, so I guess Crippa was always going to come off second best in their duel.

Weitering played like a C grader today. No poise, no skill....

Fly..I said he was ok ...true he wasnt great but he needs some direction down back which he isnt getting....made some mistakes with poor kicks and a couple of half ar$ed contests but he also played in front at times and took a couple of good marks.
He isnt back to what he was but we have more problems than him to worry about and I reckon we look top heavy down back and our lack of small defenders is hurting us with the obvious one being Docherty out.

Bruise free footy yet again, but what do you expect when the players you have in prime mover positions are SPS, Fisher, Dow & O'Brien. All light weights who are unable to put any physical pressure on seasoned players.

Kerridge missed his foot 3 times when trying to kick, Casboult let several player waltz away from him, Cripps will only run one way has very little interest in chasing a player, Wright is unable to chase, Ed Curnow was putrid in the first half, as was Rowe, nice dropped mark that gave them an easy goal. Lamb yet again did a very good impression of the invisible man, Thomas meh, and I'm sick of Kruezer trying to kick the ball of the ground and for it to come off the side on boot and go straight to an opposition player, bend down and pick it up and if that's not possible shepherd for one of our smalls who are there.

That first half was putrid, these are AFL players who cannot handball to a moving target, cannot make the decision that kicking to a young forward with two players on him is a bad idea and is there no talking out there?

Kerr should be dropped for looking at Kreuzer then turning his back, he has not earned the right to do that and then to miss everything just showed that he's not capable. Harry McKay gets dropped for some reason yet we have Kerr who has the manoeuvrability of the QE2 and the starting speed of it as wekk. Harry is 204 and quick play him FFS.

For the first time I'm thinking Bolton may not be the coach for us, we used to be hard to score against now roll up roll up to get easy scores.

Yes, Fyfe has been in the doldrums for a season or two, but has bounced back to career best form this year. Has the experience and backup that Cripps doesn't have, so I guess Crippa was always going to come off second best in their duel.

Fyfe is top shelf, it's no disgrace to be beaten by him.
Kane Lucas or Nat Fyfe?
If only. ????

Just on H McKay I thought he was being managed. Was he seriously omitted?

Fyfe is top shelf, it's no disgrace to be beaten by him.
Kane Lucas or Nat Fyfe?
If only. ????

Yes agree. No shame on Cripps at all. Has carried the inside mids this whole season.

Well, that wasn’t the result I was hoping for for my first live game this season ????

I won’t say anything about the game yet - I need to gather my thoughts - and I would like to focus on off-field issues.

First of all, it was my first train trip to the footy from Geelong and the service, particularly the customer service, was first class.

The social club was the same as always; not great but OK, and I caught up with two cousins; part of my extended family of Carlton supporters.

I got to my seat on the second level; a position that provides a great view of the ground and the plays that are unfolding.  Well, it would if folk could take their seat before quarters start and don’t have to get past me several times each quarter for drinks, snacks and toilet breaks ????

I went to the Victory Room at half time and caught up with some mates over a couple of beers.  Then it was back to applauding our resurgence ????

I then went to the post-game function and listened to the great man Kouta talk about what he hopes for our players and confess that he is only interested in soccer once every four years.

What struck me in all of that is that there is a tangible positive vibe among supporters, despite a woeful on-field performance.  Andy Lee remarked that thought he would be talking to an empty room but the post-game function was packed and members are clearly looking for long term, sustained success and have moved on from the focus on immediate success that got us into the state we’re in.

I guess the big unknown is this...those supporters in the rooms and those that gave the boys encouragement as they walked off the field at the end of the game are hard core rusted on supporters of the approach the club is taking.

If that's representative of the general Carlton supporter...no problem.
But is it?

How many of those were booing the team at half time?...
How many more left at half time?
How many turned off the TV and went shopping?
Even in here among the faithful...how many are wavering after that first half performance?

Just on H McKay I thought he was being managed. Was he seriously omitted?

He's not playing anywhere this week as he's apparently ill.

We can if we give Jones a roving role
Let him create his chaos all over the field and give him some time in the ruck as well.

Yep, don't understand why Jones isn't being used to punch some chaos into our F50, and he's is capable of chasing and tackling!

Interesting tweet from Rhys Palmer today:

"Everyone talks about draft picks and developing youth but no one ever talks about culture...."

That hurts, especially from Rhys Palmer.

I knew nothing of what happened today until it was over: I was with my daughter at a dancing contest in Kyabram. It wasn't pleasant, but to find out that the team may as well have been with me is terrible.

And here I have been feeling that we've been on the right path for the last couple of seasons and we do this rubbish. It looks like we have gone nowhere.

I don't know if 'culture' is our problem. It is not something that is easy to measure. But I want to see a culture at Carlton like the Swans have. We cannot accept mediocrity.
We have had a number of top coaches go through our ranks and not one has made an impression. There has to be a reason for that. It is about time we dealt with it and dealt with it properly.

We need to look at the coaching staff. Again. This year we have lacked far too much and we have to fix this. I had a lot of time for Bolton, but he has to take some responsibility for the rubbish we are producing.

We need a new ruckman, one who is going to win us a flag. Too many of our rucks are going nowhere.

We need more good mids to give Cripps a hand or will lose him.

We need some spirit and desire out there on the field.

What we are producing is simply not acceptable.

I guess the big unknown is this...those supporters in the rooms and those that gave the boys encouragement as they walked off the field at the end of the game are hard core rusted on supporters of the approach the club is taking.

If that's representative of the general Carlton supporter...no problem.
But is it?

How many of those were booing the team at half time?...
How many more left at half time?
How many turned off the TV and went shopping?
Even in here among the faithful...how many are wavering after that first half performance?

The biggest problem is, how many kids are being inspired to barrack for Carlton?
I worry about our membership numbers five years from now, we've already been left behind.

Just on H McKay I thought he was being managed. Was he seriously omitted?

Of course he was omitted, he was rubbish.

204cm and took 0 marks in his last game, never more than 6 in any one week and feck all contested marks, just sh1t out the back rubbish! Then bitching like a cut snake if he didn't get a Joe the Goose!

But it's not his fault, look who his teacher is, 200cm of jumping imbecile who never takes the front position and only hurts opponents when the game is done and dusted!

The biggest problem is, how many kids are being inspired to barrack for Carlton?
I worry about our membership numbers five years from now, we've already been left behind.

I signed my newborn Grandson up last week ;)
But you're right...kids in the schoolyard won't be keen on saying "I support Carlton".
That was never a problem in my younger years.

Just as well the D1ckers dropped a little intensity in the 2nd half.

Same old, same old... apply fair-dinkum pressure to our group and they fold.

The seeming severe wobble in this rebuild should see the focus and accountability squarely on the shoulders of the President, SOS, McKay and Barker. Worries me that it may turn out to be mates giving mates jobs.

Like LN, my optimism evaporated today. I remain hopeful, just, that with the inclusion of a few and the removal of a few we'll see a better effort.

It would appear that a lot have learned very little in 2 1/2 years.

Interesting tweet from Rhys Palmer today:

"Everyone talks about draft picks and developing youth but no one ever talks about culture...."

No doubt Palmer is a "disgruntled former employee".
But it may point to some divisons within the playing group or perceived favouritism.

It may be that he just feels a bit "cheesed off" with his treatment

But his comment shouldn't just be dismissed without some expansion or explanation.

No doubt Palmer is a "disgruntled former employee".
But it may point to some divisons within the playing group or perceived favouritism.

It may be that he just feels a bit "cheesed off" with his treatment

But his comment shouldn't just be dismissed without some expansion or explanation.

There are players who feel SOS is there to feather the nests of his sons. Personally, I think that's BS. I could guess who some of these players might be or have been, all I will say is if they had the same attitude of Jack and his love for the jumper, they would be languishing in the 2's or playing suburban footy.

Outside of our win our best performances have actually been against the 4 best sides, Richmond, West Coast, Sydney and Geelong. We need to bring that every week.

Outside of our win our best performances have actually been against the 4 best sides, Richmond, West Coast, Sydney and Geelong. We need to bring that every week.

And therein lies the problem...and it's (much) more than being a youthful side.

No doubt Palmer is a "disgruntled former employee".
But it may point to some divisons within the playing group or perceived favouritism.

It may be that he just feels a bit "cheesed off" with his treatment

But his comment shouldn't just be dismissed without some expansion or explanation.

Did we deliest him or did he just retire?

When it comes from inside then we have to look at it.

EDIT: Was delisted.

I signed my newborn Grandson up last week ;)
But you're right...kids in the schoolyard won't be keen on saying "I support Carlton".
That was never a problem in my younger years.

Kids love winners and it's been a long time since Carlton was a winner or looked like becoming one.
I bought my grandson a guernsey this year, he's too young to understand it but his mum will fill him in, my daughter was just old enough to get involved in the 1995 flag.
It's not the kids of rusted on supporters we need to worry about though, it's the kids without a team looking for one to follow.
Unless we turn this around sometime soon we will be in serious trouble.

The biggest problem is, how many kids are being inspired to barrack for Carlton?
I worry about our membership numbers five years from now, we've already been left behind.

Great post, we’re in danger of losing a generation of supporters....

Kids love winners and it's been a long time since Carlton was a winner or looked like becoming one.
I bought my grandson a guernsey this year, he's too young to understand it but his mum will fill him in, my daughter was just old enough to get involved in the 1995 flag.
It's not the kids of rusted on supporters we need to worry about though, it's the kids without a team looking for one to follow.
Unless we turn this around sometime soon we will be in serious trouble.

That was disgraceful today. Again I reiterate, nothing changes until the board is gone SOS is gone and Bolton is gone.  This is uncarlton like and supporters who put up with it are uncarltonlike.

There are players who feel SOS is there to feather the nests of his sons. Personally, I think that's BS. I could guess who some of these players might be or have been, all I will say is if they had the same attitude of Jack and his love for the jumper, they would be languishing in the 2's or playing suburban footy.

Perhaps it goes further than that... maybe to all the GWS personnel SOS has favoured, and that he got the job due to his friendship with the club President?

Something is clearly not right and what happened in the first half cannot be dismissed with comments about available personnel. Our attitude, strategy and intensity was not there from the get go. Of course blokes were trying, but they looked aimless/rudderless and lacking in confidence.

I wonder if anyone else saw the FOX boys in the rooms at half time -- Derm and the Big Hairy Cat -- who were both surprised at the calmness in our rooms at half time.

Outside of our win our best performances have actually been against the 4 best sides, Richmond, West Coast, Sydney and Geelong. We need to bring that every week.

I'd agree but once the Tiggers worked out what we were up to and applied pressure, we went to water. The Fluffy Ducks and Pussycats, in all honesty, never got out of 3rd gear against us...

I think the reality is that our entire football club is in freefall. A lot of people's jobs depend on the next few weeks.

Ffs sounds all so childish, who is favouring who.. and on and on. 

Where TF is the self pride with these players - ffs open up, take the game on, back you Self, try your guts out, do something!!!

How can it be that Cripps has made himself a top 3 player in the coaches voting? What’s so special about him? Why can’t we emulate that x all the new kids?? Is it just simply he had a few better players around him in his younger days so was able to develop?

Unless we turn this around sometime soon we will be in serious trouble.

Let's face it, there will be a Division/Conference system in place in a few years time.  We will be in Div 2 and I suspect that's where we'll reside semi-permanently.

Also WTF do all the assistant coaches do?

I see no f’ing improvement in any player! None!

I'd agree but once the Tiggers worked out what we were up to and applied pressure, we went to water. The Fluffy Ducks and Pussycats, in all honesty, never got out of 3rd gear against us...

I think the reality is that our entire football club is in freefall. A lot of people's jobs depend on the next few weeks.

Were they in 3rd gear? Rubbish. Cats were all of 9 pts in front with 6-7 min to go. Richmond didn't get on top of us until very late. So lets not go there. It shows we can do it if we apply ourselves. Last year we gave sides all sorts of issues even though we just won the 6 games. 7 of the lsses we led during the last qtr so lets not say we 're not capable, we just don't apply ourselves. That's on the Coach.

i dont know where to start.

I thought the beltings were behind us, but other than injury as a plausible excuse, there seems to be very little desperation to cement a position in this side
from others that get an opportunity
The fundamental basics of a spine is not there and moving a player like casboult further up the ground will fail as he is a one dimensional deep forward, weitering aint going to be what we thought he would be, as is SOS. Young midfielders / 1 st year players, should only be rotated out of the center, not a permanent fixture.
SPS runs around freely without a role, almost as if he's playing footy up north
Kerr shows potential, but immobile and demonstrates a streak of selfishness that needs to be smacked out him early.

I like bolton, but if he stays, he needs a very experienced head in there with him as a mentor type. The rest are simply no good. Bolton is a 1st year players coach that will grow into a senior position. Like some of our players, he seems a little lost.

After last year, i was optimistic 8-10 wins was not out of the question. But injuries expose our complete lack of meaningful depth.
I feel myself loosing interest in AFL (thank FK for soccer) especially after seeing where richmond are at now, after laughing at them 4-5 years ago

 

Well, that wasn’t the result I was hoping for for my first live game this season ????

I won’t say anything about the game yet - I need to gather my thoughts - and I would like to focus on off-field issues.

First of all, it was my first train trip to the footy from Geelong and the service, particularly the customer service, was first class.

The social club was the same as always; not great but OK, and I caught up with two cousins; part of my extended family of Carlton supporters.

I got to my seat on the second level; a position that provides a great view of the ground and the plays that are unfolding.  Well, it would if folk could take their seat before quarters start and don’t have to get past me several times each quarter for drinks, snacks and toilet breaks ????

I went to the Victory Room at half time and caught up with some mates over a couple of beers.  Then it was back to applauding our resurgence ????

I then went to the post-game function and listened to the great man Kouta talk about what he hopes for our players and confess that he is only interested in soccer once every four years.

What struck me in all of that is that there is a tangible positive vibe among supporters, despite a woeful on-field performance.  Andy Lee remarked that thought he would be talking to an empty room but the post-game function was packed and members are clearly looking for long term, sustained success and have moved on from the focus on immediate success that got us into the state we’re in.

Thanks DJC
you're post is really appreciated on a filthy day on-field for our mighty club.

If heads must roll, Andy Mac's has to be first.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-16/depleted-blues-too-slow-to-respond

Were they in 3rd gear? Rubbish. Cats were all of 9 pts in front with 6-7 min to go. Richmond didn't get on top of us until very late. So lets not go there. It shows we can do it if we apply ourselves. Last year we gave sides all sorts of issues even though we just won the 6 games. 7 of the lsses we led during the last qtr so lets not say we 're not capable, we just don't apply ourselves. That's on the Coach.

Do you really think we're a difficult side to beat? Means little to lead, then lose, other than you can't sustain and/or when the opposition really pours on the desperation we go to water. The Tiggers played us like they play many games, don't pour it on until well into the 3rd. You can't think we were a chance to win that game, to repeat... once they got into gear, we were gone - like many of our games. But as I've mentioned previously, I'm hoping that when we've got more of our list to pick from there may be real reasons for optimism. But not at the moment. There's very little to be excited about at present.

Also WTF do all the assistant coaches do?

I see no f’ing improvement in any player! None!

Good point. I know that a good number of our assistants have coached sides in their own right, but if they were any good wouldn't they still be coaching a side in their own right?

Do you really think we're a difficult side to beat? Means little to lead, then lose, other than you can't sustain and/or when the opposition really pours on the desperation we go to water. The Tiggers played us like they play many games, don't pour it on until well into the 3rd. You can't think we were a chance to win that game, to repeat... once they got into gear, we were gone - like many of our games. But as I've mentioned previously, I'm hoping that when we've got more of our list to pick from there may be real reasons for optimism. But not at the moment. There's very little to be excited about at present.

Think about it. You lead in the last qtr you've been a very difficult side to beat. Those were some good sides too. You certainly haven't had it easy. That's not rocket science. We haven't been exactly short of running good sides close the last 3 years (oh forgot, they're all in 3rd gear..lol). It's shows a young side has the ability they are just not applying themselves.

I don't tun away saying" ohhhhhh they're all not good", I prefer to find out why they are not performing with the performance and application they're capable off. As far as I'm concerned, while we've had injuries, Bolts isn't doing the job this year. Maybe this wasn't a job for a novice coach, not sure.

Think about it. You lead in the last qtr you've been a very difficult side to beat. Those were some good sides too. You certainly haven't had it easy. That's not rocket science. We haven't been exactly short of running good sides close the last 3 years (oh forgot, they're all in 3rd gear..lol). It's shows a young side has the ability they are just not applying themselves.

I don't tun away saying" ohhhhhh they're all not good", I prefer to find out why they are not performing with the performance and application they're capable off. As far as I'm concerned, while we've had injuries, Bolts isn't doing the job this year. Maybe this wasn't a job for a novice coach, not sure.

he's the right man for the job
the caveat to that is, he also needs a mentor with considerable experience. One that can show him, which players will and wont make it.

I don't want to see Lamb,  Kerridge, Casboult or Graham in our colours again.   They contribute little of positive value and their mistakes and basic skill errors are toxic.   Casboult.... Seriously,  when is this 200 CM stack of worm food going to move in any manner befitting a forward, or even make some physical impact on a game.  Play the bootstudders dog,  but please, please not these clowns anymore.

Why is our list bereft of rebounding defenders?  Were you asleep last draft period SoS?   It's football 2018 not 1918.

Weeters really worries me.   We took a quality young player and stuffed him. Trade him,  if he has any value left.

Our "future midfield" supposedly includes Dow,  SPS,  o'Brien and Fisher.   Why so many midgets and jockeys SoS?  Why do our kids lag so far behind other clubs'in output and impact. Why do they all appear "soft" in contests????

I'm bloody angry and I want answers,  meaningful explanations, not the glib cliches that BB has thrown around for 2 1/2 years.   Put up or piss off Bolton,  we supporters and members have had a gutful.   

he's the right man for the job
the caveat to that is, he also needs a mentor with considerable experience. One that can show him, which players will and wont make it.

Not convinced either way. We should be alot better than this even if we have a had a few injuries. 7  wins, 6 wins, 1 win. All starts at the top.

I don't want to see Lamb,  Kerridge, Casboult or Graham in our colours again.   They contribute little of positive value and their mistakes and basic skill errors are toxic.   Casboult.... Seriously,  when is this 200 CM stack of worm food going to move in any manner befitting a forward, or even make some physical impact on a game.  Play the bootstudders dog,  but please, please not these clowns anymore.

Why is our list bereft of rebounding defenders?  Were you asleep last draft period SoS?   It's football 2018 not 1918.

Weeters really worries me.   We took a quality young player and stuffed him. Trade him,  if he has any value left.

Our "future midfield" supposedly includes Dow,  SPS,  o'Brien and Fisher.   Why so many midgets and jockeys SoS?  Why do our kids lag so far behind other clubs'in output and impact. Why do they all appear "soft" in contests????

I'm bloody angry and I want answers,  meaningful explanations, not the glib cliches that BB has thrown around for 2 1/2 years.   Put up or piss off Bolton,  we supporters and members have had a gutful.  

I look at cerra and o'brien (same draft)

cerra looks like he's been in the system 2 years longer

he's the right man for the job
the caveat to that is, he also needs a mentor with considerable experience. One that can show him, which players will and wont make it.

Roos would be ideal as some sort of mentor.

I wanted Cerra but they club took Dow.  Haven't seen anything to make me think otherwise.

OBrien really concerns me.   Shouldn't be playing ones and looks timid.   That never augers well.

Paul. Roos hates us.   He'd be drinking a good red after hearing we got flogged.

i dont know where to start.

I thought the beltings were behind us, but other than injury as a plausible excuse, there seems to be very little desperation to cement a position in this side
from others that get an opportunity
The fundamental basics of a spine is not there and moving a player like casboult further up the ground will fail as he is a one dimensional deep forward, weitering aint going to be what we thought he would be, as is SOS. Young midfielders / 1 st year players, should only be rotated out of the center, not a permanent fixture.
SPS runs around freely without a role, almost as if he's playing footy up north
Kerr shows potential, but immobile and demonstrates a streak of selfishness that needs to be smacked out him early.

I like bolton, but if he stays, he needs a very experienced head in there with him as a mentor type. The rest are simply no good. Bolton is a 1st year players coach that will grow into a senior position. Like some of our players, he seems a little lost.

After last year, i was optimistic 8-10 wins was not out of the question. But injuries expose our complete lack of meaningful depth.
I feel myself loosing interest in AFL (thank FK for soccer) especially after seeing where richmond are at now, after laughing at them 4-5 years ago

Neil Craig. Love him or hate him. He had a role that IMO, has left a gap as wide as the Indian Ocean. It's a complex gig and there's something to be said for wisdom and experience.

Neil Craig. Love him or hate him. He had a role that IMO, has left a gap as wide as the Indian Ocean. It's a complex gig and there's something to be said for wisdom and experience.

Good point LN. Forgot about him.

Neil Craig. Love him or hate him. He had a role that IMO, has left a gap as wide as the Indian Ocean. It's a complex gig and there's something to be said for wisdom and experience.

Exactamundo. We've both been mentioning this (BB needing mentor/strategist assistance), and today it became even more apparent.

I know there are many who think he may have gone one season too many....and his skills aren't what they once were....but Kade Simpson stands among a group of players who would give their all for the team and is a credit to the jumper.

Dear lord, what would have today been like if not for Simpson...

Think about it. You lead in the last qtr you've been a very difficult side to beat. Those were some good sides too. You certainly haven't had it easy. That's not rocket science. We haven't been exactly short of running good sides close the last 3 years (oh forgot, they're all in 3rd gear..lol). It's shows a young side has the ability they are just not applying themselves.

I don't tun away saying" ohhhhhh they're all not good", I prefer to find out why they are not performing with the performance and application they're capable off. As far as I'm concerned, while we've had injuries, Bolts isn't doing the job this year. Maybe this wasn't a job for a novice coach, not sure.

Think you are right Jim...having a novice coach run a rebuild makes it harder and the support in the box isnt great either IMO.....when he says the players were slow to respond deflects a bit
from the coaches box IMO.

The term "meaningful depth" has real value.   You can't be competitive  when you don't have 22 AFL standard players in a list of 40 odd.   For example,  as for HBFs, we look strong in this area but in realityf

OShea, Shaw.    List cloggers.
Mullet.   Awful.
Byrne.   Permanently injured.
McDaid.   Injured.   Greener than grass.
Docherty.   Injured.
Simpson.   On his last legs.
Daisy.   Pinch hitting out of necessity.
AcoS.   Injured,  and more a KPD.
Schumacher.  First year player.

So nine rebounding HBFs on list,  most contributing FA to The club on field in 2018.  Over to you SoS....

I wanted Cerra but they club took Dow.  Haven't seen anything to make me think otherwise.

OBrien really concerns me.   Shouldn't be playing ones and looks timid.   That never augers well.

Paul. Roos hates us.   He'd be drinking a good red after hearing we got flogged.

Cerra is more polished with the football than Dow but you could argue the Freo midfield makes it easier.....Obrien is very outside so he needs a winning inside setup....

Exactamundo. We've both been mentioning this (BB needing mentor/strategist assistance), and today it became even more apparent.

Yes, like a broken record.  ::)
As deflated as I feel today, I do hold some hope for the core talent we've drafted. I've said this before too, but our gap in the list lies in the next age bracket. It consists of players who are depth at best (VFL on any other list), can't dispose effectively, or are injury prone. That is the cohort that buffers the kids while the quality (which we have too few) + elders keep the structure and momentum. The result is we find ourselves "lost" without structure or momentum - posters call this out nearly every game.

Injuries this year have been unlucky. Injury management has been crippling.....

Ironically, Docherty's injury may benefit us next year. He'll be like an old fashioned captain coach. Nonetheless I think our senior coach needs a senior coach. Pronto. That part is probably doable. The tricky part will be upgrading the respected but inadequate cohort.

Go Blues

Dow was supposed to have breakaway pace and be a clearance beast.... When are we going  to see it?

Dow was supposed to have breakaway pace and be a clearance beast.... When are we going  to see it?

A PS or two after his voice breaks ;)
He will be a beauty.

Agree.

Don’t forget the loss of Gibbs too. Yes he never liked the hard ball but no disputing that Gibbs, Murphy and Doc are clean footballers who usually make good decisions and execute it well.

With those 3 out its no wonder we gone backwards this year.

What were we expecting. Who has come in that are in their level? I will tell you. None!

Our senior core remaining are by and large average to poor ball users by foot. Can draft as many first rounders as we like but will stay a bottom team until we replace the bulk of these sorts off our list.

Dow was supposed to have breakaway pace and be a clearance beast.... When are we going  to see it?

Has the pace, can win his own ball but wont ever be the bash and crash clearance type, we need another bigger mid like a Wines to get the best out of Dow so he can use that pace..

What struck me in all of that is that there is a tangible positive vibe among supporters, despite a woeful on-field performance.  Andy Lee remarked that thought he would be talking to an empty room but the post-game function was packed and members are clearly looking for long term, sustained success and have moved on from the focus on immediate success that got us into the state we’re in.

This made my day DJC, I too was at the game (and stayed the whole game), I still have faith, even after today. After nearly 17 years, I believe we have no choice but stay the path. Cripps and Curnow recommitting made my year.

Rowe isn't a long term prospect and we may as well let him finish his time in the VFL and try and lay some foundations for the future.

Here's one for you; play him forward.

I didn't mean to crap on him but he was well beaten when it counted.
 Fyfe v Cripps was a first quarter KO for the docker.

I am sorry MadBlue but it's worse than that; Dockers vs Blues was a first quarter KO for the Dockers. We were beaten all over the park.

That hurts, especially from Rhys Palmer.

I knew nothing of what happened today until it was over: I was with my daughter at a dancing contest in Kyabram.

We were also at a dancing contest - they won. Seriously have to work on our moves.

Hard to find positives today but thought SPS worked very hard both ways across the ground and never gave up.

Liked his game.

Probably his best game for the year but I cannot accept that he worked hard both ways.

If he doesn't get the ball on his terms, he allows his opponent to run downfield to create an overlap or loose player and he just jogs along behind (if that).

Very skillful player but he hasn't improved since last season is is a lazy player.

I think that we're ruining Weitering, he doesn't know where he fits or what he's supposed to be doing, he should be playing on the best opposition forward week in and week out.

I don't think he is good enough to play man-on-man

Bruise free footy yet again, but what do you expect when the players you have in prime mover positions are SPS, Fisher, Dow & O'Brien. All light weights who are unable to put any physical pressure on seasoned players. Too true

Kerridge missed his foot 3 times when trying to kick, Casboult let several player waltz away from him, Cripps will only run one way has very little interest in chasing a player, Wright is unable to chase, Ed Curnow was putrid in the first half, as was Rowe, nice dropped mark that gave them an easy goal. Lamb yet again did a very good impression of the invisible man, Thomas meh, and I'm sick of Kruezer trying to kick the ball of the ground and for it to come off the side on boot and go straight to an opposition player, bend down and pick it up and if that's not possible shepherd for one of our smalls who are there. Hard to argue and I don't want to

That first half was putrid, these are AFL players who cannot handball to a moving target, cannot make the decision that kicking to a young forward with two players on him is a bad idea and is there no talking out there?

For the first time I'm thinking Bolton may not be the coach for us, we used to be hard to score against now roll up roll up to get easy scores.

I don't think he is good enough to play man-on-man

Agree....intercept player only at this stage IMO, took some better marks but also failed to compete well enough at times....

I don't want to see Lamb,  Kerridge, Casboult or Graham in our colours again.   They contribute little of positive value and their mistakes and basic skill errors are toxic.  
 

Lamb is not a defender except when playing as a defensive forward - dumb selection.

Regrettably, Kerridge has been one of our better players in recent weeks.

Casboult was an embarrassment today.

Graham has been dropped after better games than he played today so I will be shocked if he gets another game - then again, with our MC, who can say?

you could argue the Freo midfield makes it easier......

Easy argument to win

I'm prepared to give Casboult a "get out of Gaol free" card just for this week.

First game back after a five week break into a side that was being mauled and it was probably a bit difficult for him to have much of an impact.

If he doesn't get the ball on his terms, he allows his opponent to run downfield to create an overlap or loose player and he just jogs along behind (if that).

This could be just about any player wearing navy blue yesterday (or this season)

At stoppages and contested marking contests we seem to set up in ways that our boys are all standing together and leaving the opposition unattended. When the ball spills the opposition move together and break in numbers. We just turn and start jogging back to leave it to the next layer of defenders to deal with. Hardly anyone chases with the intensity needed to stop the easy ball movement.

Worse still is our defensive tactic of guarding space. The opposition just work harder to either lead into space for the mark or create the overlapping run that breaks through as we don't chase down hard enough or stay in the contest long enough. When we do chase, its like 3 guys converge on the ball carrier rather than stay with a player who is going to be the next link in the chain.

I know we're young will make mistakes. But these sort of tactical and behavioural shortfalls are where you start to question the coaches and their game plan.

The issue isn't si much about playing ability it's the complete and utter total lack of effort by the side.  Why did this happen? Aak the coach.

You can have an all time great side but if they completely and utterly lack effort they get smashed.

Over to the coach to get them up.

I don't want to see Lamb,  Kerridge, Casboult or Graham in our colours again.   They contribute little of positive value and their mistakes and basic skill errors are toxic.   Casboult.... Seriously,  when is this 200 CM stack of worm food going to move in any manner befitting a forward, or even make some physical impact on a game.  Play the bootstudders dog,  but please, please not these clowns anymore.

Why is our list bereft of rebounding defenders?  Were you asleep last draft period SoS?   It's football 2018 not 1918.

Weeters really worries me.   We took a quality young player and stuffed him. Trade him,  if he has any value left.

Our "future midfield" supposedly includes Dow,  SPS,  o'Brien and Fisher.   Why so many midgets and jockeys SoS?  Why do our kids lag so far behind other clubs'in output and impact. Why do they all appear "soft" in contests????

I'm bloody angry and I want answers,  meaningful explanations, not the glib cliches that BB has thrown around for 2 1/2 years.   Put up or piss off Bolton,  we supporters and members have had a gutful.  

Why single those four out? That's rubbish - Rowe, Cripps, both Curnows also equally inept displays of skill/decision making. And Weiters too.

Did Bolts get the team on Mogadon before first bounce? They were - all 18 of them - as flat as tacks.... their collective decision making was on that benchmark.

Darcy Lang? Entirely invisible since his return....etc etc.

Casboult simply shouldn't have played first up after a 5-6 week injury - another dumb MC decision.

Probably his best game for the year but I cannot accept that he worked hard both ways.

If he doesn't get the ball on his terms, he allows his opponent to run downfield to create an overlap or loose player and he just jogs along behind (if that).

Very skillful player but he hasn't improved since last season is is a lazy player.

Totally agree, saw it a few times yesterday... jogging after his opponent  ::)

I'm prepared to give Casboult a "get out of Gaol free" card just for this week.

First game back after a five week break into a side that was being mauled and it was probably a bit difficult for him to have much of an impact.

He's now a 100 game, 7 year player, the sort of player who needs to stand up when the team is under pressure or being badly beaten.
It's high time we stopped making excuses for him.

I don't think he is good enough to play man-on-man

There's only one way to find out and it's not as if we can be beaten more easily if we try it.
Weitering should be the corner stone of our defence for the next decade, if he's not up to the task it's better to find out now.

He's now a 100 game, 7 year player, the sort of player who needs to stand up when the team is under pressure or being badly beaten.
It's high time we stopped making excuses for him.

For that reason we don't have the luxury of bringing him back through the VFL.
If he's fit he has to play...That doesn't mean he's match ready after a five week break.
He's been OK for us this year before he was injured.

I think Carlton merchandising should be selling signed commemorative white flags after yesterday's performance.

For that reason we don't have the luxury of bringing him back through the VFL.
If he's fit he has to play...That doesn't mean he's match ready after a five week break.
He's been OK for us this year before he was injured.

Sadly though he'll never be better than OK, and that's on his good days.
It isn't his fault and I have no beef against him or any other Carlton player, but it's symptomatic of our malaise.
Too many OK players, far too many.

Sadly though he'll never be better than OK, and that's on his good days.
It isn't his fault and I have no beef against him or any other Carlton player, but it's symptomatic of our malaise.
Too many OK players, far too many.

That's quite right...I think a lot of Casboult's problem has been some folk expected him to be Fevola and he's just a fair, average player.

He's now a 100 game, 7 year player, the sort of player who needs to stand up when the team is under pressure or being badly beaten.
It's high time we stopped making excuses for him.

He's a reasonable player but he's no a first round pick either. He's a pick 44 in a rookie draft. A KPF in a rookie draft is usually not going to be a side to hold a side together. He's a 2nd forward on ability and only if he also rucks. We've been lucky to have him as a bridge between losing Waite/Henderson and waiting for the next level to develop.

Watching Ed Curnow on the Footy Show. Seems we tried to play that offensive, zoning brand. Why did F dopey Bolton play that game plan in a game that was very winnable. Is he an idiot? It's too far advanced for us, the players get totally lost, and we fall apart. We can't marry the offensive and defensive plan and we get humiliated time and again when we try to. Idiot Bolton!

Our strength right now is the congested, in-close defensive plan. That's the way footy's played these days anyway by most clubs, so play it that way. We play it well, relatively at least, and are always very competitive. Play the other plan and we're plainly hopeless and lost. Why are people, who are supposed to be experts so F dumb.

That's quite right...I think a lot of Casboult's problem has been some folk expected him to be Fevola and he's just a fair, average player.

And our team is full of them, apart from Cripps none of yesterday's 22 would be certain of a game in a top side and 6 or 8 of them wouldn't even be on West Coast or Sydney's senior list, and I reckon I'm being generous.
We aren't on the bottom with a percentage in the low 60's by some sort of fluke.

Boltons' presser was full of spin and little else......Freo had a younger team on the park, it was lack of effort coupled with a poor game plan.
We need a close contested game where it aint pretty and we can scrounge and bite our way over the line, you look at the first half and there are Freo players loose every where. Tuckers goal was about as easy as it gets, zero pressure and its clear our defense dont understand the game plan given where our players were standing in relation to the ball.

Bolton needs to lose the spin, youth excuses and lift his game in the coaches box and start reacting earlier than he does......I dont care if we play 8 men back but do something....12 goals straight and in the manner they scored isnt acceptable and he needs to take responsibility and not talk crap about culture at half time and 40 new players etc....effort and planning was what was lacking IMO in the main..

If Barker and others are not up to providing Bolton with the right info to act then they have to go........

Boltons' presser was full of spin and little else......Freo had a younger team on the park, it was lack of effort coupled with a poor game plan.
We need a close contested game where it aint pretty and we can scrounge and bite our way over the line, you look at the first half and there are Freo players loose every where. Tuckers goal was about as easy as it gets, zero pressure and its clear our defense dont understand the game plan given where our players were standing in relation to the ball.

Bolton needs to lose the spin, youth excuses and lift his game in the coaches box and start reacting earlier than he does......I dont care if we play 8 men back but do something....12 goals straight and in the manner they scored isnt acceptable and he needs to take responsibility and not talk crap about culture at half time and 40 new players etc....effort and planning was what was lacking IMO in the main..

If Barker and others are not up to providing Bolton with the right info to act then they have to go........

BB is being very poorly advised if he is being advised at all, but as I've mentioned before on media issues around our players, contracts, injuries, the tribunal and the like our club is very poorly run in the media! We are dead-set amateurs, I often bag the Pudding Face Twins, but they A-Graders at deflection and deception!

I'm afraid I've come to the same conclusion regarding Barker, he's had too long, even though our list is newly assembled the player development results are not there to support re-contracting.

In a decade the only clear player improvement we've seen(potentially) is Casboult's kicking under Rocca. There is hardly a player on our list that looks better now than when they arrived, most seem to be going backwards!

Boltons' presser was full of spin and little else......Freo had a younger team on the park, it was lack of effort coupled with a poor game plan.
We need a close contested game where it aint pretty and we can scrounge and bite our way over the line, you look at the first half and there are Freo players loose every where. Tuckers goal was about as easy as it gets, zero pressure and its clear our defense dont understand the game plan given where our players were standing in relation to the ball.

Bolton needs to lose the spin, youth excuses and lift his game in the coaches box and start reacting earlier than he does......I dont care if we play 8 men back but do something....12 goals straight and in the manner they scored isnt acceptable and he needs to take responsibility and not talk crap about culture at half time and 40 new players etc....effort and planning was what was lacking IMO in the main..

If Barker and others are not up to providing Bolton with the right info to act then they have to go........

I just want a game plan that plays to our strengths, especially in winnable games. If he can't do that then  he can F off. Wonder if the job is beyond him at his stage of experience. My personal preference as coach is in the box, David Teague.

I just want a game plan that plays to our strengths, especially in winnable games. If he can't do that then  he can F off. Wonder if the job is beyond him at his stage of experience. My personal preference as coach is in the box, David Teague.

Maybe, only maybe, BB is too much of a teacher, maybe he is unable to let go of the reigns!

Maybe he, and our club, doesn't have the guts to give the AFL the finger and play a game style that suits our kids!

Maybe, only maybe, BB is too much of a teacher, maybe he is unable to let go of the reigns!

Maybe he, and our club, doesn't have the guts to give the AFL the finger and play a game style that suits our kids!

Might have a point.

Just about every other side plays that way now. This is the lowest scoring season since 1968.

I think Carlton merchandising should be selling signed commemorative white flags after yesterday's performance.

Pretty sure the AFL and anti-Carlton media have that stitched up already. E.g. see afl video the round so far. Starts with Carlton are inexcusably sh%t.... ends with the same.

Just about every other side plays that way now. This is the lowest scoring season since 1968.

Yet as LN points out, we are the focus!

Pretty sure the AFL and anti-Carlton media have that stitched up already. E.g. see afl video the round so far. Starts with Carlton are inexcusably sh%t.... ends with the same.

Is it because other clubs are so much better at managing the media than Carlton, it seems it is nothing to do with game style, list management or anything else. As @Laj points out they are all playing similarly negative game styles.

Have the opposition clubs collectively pointed the finger at Carlton as a way of deflecting from themselves, or is the media being used by opponents as a way of forcing us to play a game style that makes us less competitive! Our negative game style last season was clearly not far off causing some significant upsets!

Do or should we give a stuff if the AFL media and other struggling AFL clubs need scoring breaks to earn revenue? Does Carlton also need this to become profitable, or should it just be more focussed on winning some games? Why should Carlton support there cause, what support have we received in recent years when all they do is kick us while we are down? Is it time for us to cause them some fiscal pain, win on our terms at their expense?

It was interesting was a couple of weeks back, when the Priority Pick stuff was being discussed, just how many in the media / opposition fear that if we can get our sh1t together we will soon do a Nthmond and rocket up the membership and AFL ladder! I'm not so sure, I think it's just an excuse they use to keep on kicking us while we are down, as it's much easier to keep on kicking us when we are down than to try and apply the breaks if we start to climb!

Should they fear Carlton if it gathers any momentum?

We are all very quick to go the coach.....easy target IMO.

Only have to watch the replay of the 1st half when there was some pressure on and see our so called senior players (we all know who they are) turn over regulation 20-25 metre passes time and time again. Our senior players skill level is that far below par its laughable. :-[

Put Clarkson in the coaches box yesterday and the result is the same IMO. You can switch players around and make all the moves you like and have the best game day plans in place but have a senior core that cant execute the very basics and you get results like yesterday. Its as simple as that.
   
Need min of 8-10 decent ball users and boot out the hacks we continue to persist with. Couldn't care less if they are A, B or C grade as long as they have clean foot skills.

More of the mould of Fisher and no more Lamb, Kerridge, Graham, Lamb, Rowe, O'Shea, Mullett, Casboult types. I could keep going. :-X

We are all very quick to go the coach.....easy target IMO.

Only have to watch the replay of the 1st half when there was some pressure on and see our so called senior players (we all know who they are) turn over regulation 20-25 metre passes time and time again. Our senior players skill level is that far below par its laughable. :-[

Put Clarkson in the coaches box yesterday and the result is the same IMO. You can switch players around and make all the moves you like and have the best game day plans in place but have a senior core that cant execute the very basics and you get results like yesterday. Its as simple as that.
   
Need min of 8-10 decent ball users and boot out the hacks we continue to persist with. Couldn't care less if they are A, B or C grade as long as they have clean foot skills.

More of the mould of Fisher and no more Lamb, Kerridge, Graham, Lamb, Rowe, O'Shea, Mullett, Casboult types. I could keep going. :-X

Also the correct target. Players are totally lost with that zoning, offensive crap and mentally fall apart. You play to your strengths, especially in winnable game. Yesterday was a total F up all round. If Bolton hasn't learned we can't play that game plan after all the times we have been humiliated then he shouldn't be there. When we play our regular plan, the players are right into and give 100% and are very competitive against all teams. When we play that zoning, offensive crap, we look like we can't get near the ball and get wiped off the map. That's on the coach. You work it out.

We are all very quick to go the coach.....easy target IMO.

That is generalising Shawny, many of us are giving BB more time but are not so forgiving of some long term appointees around him.

Only have to watch the replay of the 1st half when there was some pressure on and see our so called senior players (we all know who they are) turn over regulation 20-25 metre passes time and time again. Our senior players skill level is that far below par its laughable. :-[

Lots of posters pointed this out yesterday, while the kids were bad so were the seniors, the seniors do not and should not get a pass mark for past good deeds when they deliver that crap!

Put Clarkson in the coaches box yesterday and the result is the same IMO. You can switch players around and make all the moves you like and have the best game day plans in place but have a senior core that cant execute the very basics and you get results like yesterday. Its as simple as that.

Doubt the Freo run on would have lasted so long, but again referring to the first point it's as much about the support coaches as it is the front man! Something that makes Clarkson great is listening to the support crew and harvesting the best suggestions, does BB ignore suggestions or are they absent? We've seen this sort of things happening for too long, more than the reign of a single coach, it can't just be BB!

Need min of 8-10 decent ball users and boot out the hacks we continue to persist with. Couldn't care less if they are A, B or C grade as long as they have clean foot skills.

True, but isn't that part of player development, how many of our long term players have improved in field kicking? It's not just all about the list management and match day tactics!

More of the mould of Fisher and no more Lamb, Kerridge, Graham, Lamb, Rowe, O'Shea, Mullett, Casboult types. I could keep going. :-X

The worry is Fisher types will go backwards in our environment, I suspect that was the message hidden in Rhys Palmer's tweets yesterday!

That's on the coach. You work it out.

I don't accept that any AFL coach willingly plays a game style that gives his squad less chance of victory, this reeks of external influence!

Maybe we are broke, maybe that has made us beholding to our benefactors, and maybe that is why we have folded under public pressure!

It looks and feels to me like we are coached by the media, and at the moment the media have got it very wrong! It's chaotic!

We are all very quick to go the coach.....easy target IMO.

Only have to watch the replay of the 1st half when there was some pressure on and see our so called senior players (we all know who they are) turn over regulation 20-25 metre passes time and time again. Our senior players skill level is that far below par its laughable. :-[

Put Clarkson in the coaches box yesterday and the result is the same IMO. You can switch players around and make all the moves you like and have the best game day plans in place but have a senior core that cant execute the very basics and you get results like yesterday. Its as simple as that.
   
Need min of 8-10 decent ball users and boot out the hacks we continue to persist with. Couldn't care less if they are A, B or C grade as long as they have clean foot skills.

More of the mould of Fisher and no more Lamb, Kerridge, Graham, Lamb, Rowe, O'Shea, Mullett, Casboult types. I could keep going. :-X

I agree. Our senior group (200+ games) is in the main either injured, ordinary, or past it, and our core group (100-150 games) is much the same. As I've said before, I have a soft spot for Levi, but when your 100-150 gamers are blokes like him, Jones, Mullet etc., well, you can join the dots I'm sure. The only exception is Wright IMO.

We're pretty much a joke in some folks eyes.
At least three shots on AFL Game Day.

1)Bolton couldn't get the top off his drink bottle

2)Some reference to Spain, Portugal (World Cup) and Carlton that I kind of missed the point of.....(found out what that was- :( )

First Half goals

2 Portugal
1 Spain
0 Carlton

3) Their amusement at some of the Carlton (talk back) members threatening to burn memberships and memorabilia at half-time.

Yep, that's on them.
Media mongrels!
They're quick to stick the boot in and have a laugh at our expense.

But sadly we're going to cop that because that's where we're at! :(

I agree. Our senior group (200+ games) is in the main either injured, ordinary, or past it, and our core group (100-150 games) is much the same. As I've said before, I have a soft spot for Levi, but when your 100-150 gamers are blokes like him, Jones, Mullet etc., well, you can join the dots I'm sure. The only exception is Wright IMO.

It's that soft spot that lets you get stabbed in the heart, just takes 14mm! :o

We're pretty much a joke in some folks eyes.
At least three shots on AFL Game Day.

1)Bolton couldn't get the top off his drink bottle

2)Some reference to Spain, Portugal (World Cup) and Carlton that I kind of missed the point of.

3) Their amusement at some of the Carlton (talk back) members threatening to burn memberships and memorabilia at half-time.

Yep, that's on them.
Media mongrels!
They're quick to stick the boot in and have a laugh at our expense.

But sadly we're going to cop that because that's where we're at! :(

A LOT LOT more was made out of our poor showing than was made out of the Dogs and Crows spankings.

A LOT LOT more was made out of our poor showing than was made out of the Dogs and Crows spankings.

And we'll be the talk of radio all week, that is because the other clubs don't rate! ;)

The AFL needs us more than they needs the Dogs, Norp, Aints or Dawks, look at the Dawks v Crows dismal gate last night!

That really burns some in the media!

The hard question we need to ask is this, do we need to have the AFL pissing in our pocket to survive?

A LOT LOT more was made out of our poor showing than was made out of the Dogs and Crows spankings.

The Dogs have got a recent flag under their belt and Adelaide were runners up last year.
We've been a basket case for longer than anyone cares to remember, have had numerous high draft picks are showing no signs whatsoever of getting off the bottom.
Which genius at the club decided that we didn't want a priority pick this year by the way?
Would any other club knock one back?

I don't accept that any AFL coach willingly plays a game style that gives his squad less chance of victory, this reeks of external influence!

Maybe we are broke, maybe that has made us beholding to our benefactors, and maybe that is why we have folded under public pressure!

It looks and feels to me like we are coached by the media, and at the moment the media have got it very wrong! It's chaotic!

We play our defensive game plan a number of other weeks so don't think that's it. It's the style these days anyway. Bolton thinks he's teaching them only he'll ruin them doing that. It's dumb!

We play our defensive game plan a number of other weeks so don't think that's it. It's the style these days anyway. Bolton thinks he's teaching them only he'll ruin them doing that. It's dumb!

I can't agree about BB.

But I do think he does himself significant harm when he tries to claim we stood up well in the 2nd half, when it's clear to all that Freo went into fuel saving mode! Fans are not dumb, don't blow smoke up their ar5e!

The Dogs have got a recent flag under their belt and Adelaide were runners up last year.
We've been a basket case for longer than anyone cares to remember, have had numerous high draft picks are showing no signs whatsoever of getting off the bottom.
Which genius at the club decided that we didn't want a priority pick this year by the way?
Would any other club knock one back?

So they think they can smell blood in our case rather than with the Crows and Dogs. I guess Blue Blood does smell that bit sweeter to them?

So they think they can smell blood in our case rather than with the Crows and Dogs. I guess Blue Blood does smell that bit sweeter to them?

We are a legitimate story, we hold the record for most flags while being the worst performing Victorian club since Fitzroy in their dying days.
Given our arrogant swagger of bygone days it's little wonder that people find it ironic, and slightly amusing, and that we generate media interest.

This all started with the Pagan era. I was horrified by what transpired and posted numerous scathing posts by what I had witnessed during his tenure. This is all coming home to roost now.

I was fearful at the time that we would become the new St Kilda and low and behold here we are. I reckon we're a damn site worse! The poundings he allowed to happen to the club ripped the soul out of it. This is not Carlton, this is Pagan's Carlton. It became acceptable to lose and to lose big, something the previous culture of Carlton would never accept.

He spearheaded the tanking, the "high draft picks" will solve all our issues. Who remembers the "give me good players and I'll give you wins" comment? Well the high draft picks gave him good players, but when those players come to a soulless club, this is the result. Those players then pass on that mantra and so it goes perpetually in a never ending vicious circle.

Look at Gibbs, he's left and taken his pox with him to the Crows. His loser aura has followed him. This is no coincidence. Hopefully Murphy and Kreuser do the same come seasons end and we're finally rid of that era's embarrassments. And that's the way those guys should be viewed. Not as treasured high draft choices, but failures by the club to do the right thing and fight out every game and not deliberately lose for the sake of a higher draft position.

This club stinks from boot studder to president and something is not right here. The sh*t they've been dishing up is under 14s level of incompetence. I used to be proud to follow this club, now I see us as a joke.

The first decent thing the club has done in two decades was decline the priority pick. I applauded that action and it shows someone is actually looking in the mirror and wanting the club to put it's house in order. Let's see if they follow through or f*ck it up and take the easy way out if the time comes when they're offered it. Will the cronies at the club have the nads to say no? Or will they man up and do the right thing? I reckon they'll soft c*ck it. Just watch...

Whilst I agree with your take on our current situation, there's some dubious interpretations and a few long drawing of bows in that post.

He's prone to some "Massive" rants ;) ;D

I have no time for him either, but he inherited a badly crippled club, a fact he didn't know when he signed on courtesy of the AFL draft sanctions.  But when he went after Martyn, that was my last straw.  He was never a great coach IMHO

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-06-17/exblues-culture-dig-gets-up-curnows-nose

Personally, I think Rhys might be on to something.

It (the Pagan era)was the start of the rot...but the forces that brought him to the club have an equal share of the blame.

Palmer in his tweet about "culture" may have been closer to the mark than we care to admit.
Some things can be papered over for a time but if enough pressure comes due to lack of progress then the cracks will always resurface.

The problem is.... where do we find the source of the problem because there doesn't seem to be any real consensus.

I can't agree about BB.

But I do think he does himself significant harm when he tries to claim we stood up well in the 2nd half, when it's clear to all that Freo went into fuel saving mode! Fans are not dumb, don't blow smoke up their ar5e!

It is dumb! Why go down that path with that game plan.

Agree with the rest though. We aren't gullible.

It (the Pagan era)was the start of the rot...but the forces that brought him to the club have an equal share of the blame.

Palmer in his tweet about "culture" may have been closer to the mark than we care to admit.
Some things can be papered over for a time but if enough pressure comes due to lack of progress then the cracks will always resurface.

The problem is.... where do we find the source of the problem because there doesn't seem to be any real consensus.

One starting point would be to look at what has not changed in the last number of years, which to my mind is as follows :
- Andy Mac
- board members
- senior group of players, including Simpson and the 2 No1's.

Everything else in the footy department has changed. And I'd be looking very closely at our medical department as well.

One starting point would be to look at what has not changed in the last number of years, which to my mind is as follows :
- Andy Mac
- board members
- senior group of players, including Simpson and the 2 No1's.

Everything else in the footy department has changed. And I'd be looking very closely at our medical department as well.

Yep
Injury management....
.... what about development?
To me that's where we've been poorest...and yes, part of that has been the lack of strong senior influence....but that's not the only reason.

I have no time for him either, but he inherited a badly crippled club, a fact he didn't know when he signed on courtesy of the AFL draft sanctions.  But when he went after Martyn, that was my last straw.  He was never a great coach IMHO

He built North's dominant sides of the 90's virtually from scratch, but in fairness North has been a well administered club with a strong culture for a very long time so he had good support, which was something sadly lacking at Carlton.
By the time he got to Princes Park we were broke, out of the draft with a sub standard and ageing list and a dysfunctional board.
Ratten was coach when we played the Kreuzer Cup, I was there when the cheer squad clapped the players off after the loss, but if we're going to rewrite our recent history we may as well rewrite all of it I guess.

Nearly spat my coffee out when I read the line about Gibbs. ;D

It would've taken a couple of years for the draft picks to take affect. Even then we landed Simmo, Walker as a PP and Nick Stevens through the PSD. Pagan was past it when he got to Carlton and totally lost the players. Let's not rewrite things too much. Soon as we sacked him we were very competitive the next year and in the finals within 2 years from an absolute basket case.

I wasn't apportioning blame.  I know thru an impeccable source that ALL clubs were told not to deal with us with our (assumed) top picks as we were in the AFL gunsights

Yep
Injury management....
.... what about development?
To me that's where we've been poorest...and yes, part of that has been the lack of strong senior influence....but that's not the only reason.

Development is one of those words that sounds good, but who really knows what the hell it means ? At any rate, according to the CFC website, we have 4 development coaches, and Barker is head of strategy and high performance. God help us all.

And further to my previous point, those development blokes are all post 2010-2011, except Barker who started in 2011. Look no further.

Development is one of those words that sounds good, but who really knows what the hell it means ? At any rate, according to the CFC website, we have 4 development coaches, and Barker is head of strategy and high performance. God help us all.

To me....
It means taking the raw product you draft as an U/18 player and making him bigger, faster stronger....working to improve their weaknesses and building on their strengths so they become long term players.

Otherwise you don't need coaches and we can spend the money elsewhere.

Nearly spat my coffee out when I read the line about Gibbs. ;D

Tell me where it's wrong though. I know it reads like an absurdity, but take a look at the reality. It's like Gibbs has applied his voodoo over there. He's been there not 5 minutes and the Crows are a basket case after being the Grand Final the year before. Tell me that's a coincidence.   O0

Tell me where it's wrong though. I know it reads like an absurdity, but take a look at the reality. It's like Gibbs has applied his voodoo over there. He's been there not 5 minutes and the Crows are a basket case after being the Grand Final the year before. Tell me that's a coincidence.   O0

Might just be Gibbs
Eddie B and big Sam didn't have the same spells. :D

It would've taken a couple of years for the draft picks to take affect. Even then we landed Simmo, Walker as a PP and Nick Stevens through the PSD. Pagan was past it when he got to Carlton and totally lost the players. Let's not rewrite things too much. Soon as we sacked him we were very competitive the next year and in the finals within 2 years from an absolute basket case.

Three number one picks, a number two pick, and Judd, not to mention Fevola, Stevens, Waite, Betts and another couple of hacks.
I won't get into yet another Pagan v Ratten barney, I'll only say that they were both bad appointments appointed for the wrong reasons, as was Malthouse.
We've lurched from one disaster to the next, and they've all been of our own making.

Tell me where it's wrong though. I know it reads like an absurdity, but take a look at the reality. It's like Gibbs has applied his voodoo over there. He's been there not 5 minutes and the Crows are a basket case after being the Grand Final the year before. Tell me that's a coincidence.   O0

Footscray won a flag a couple of years back and now can't beat time with a stick, Richmond did nothing much at all in 2016.
It happens.

Might just be Gibbs
Eddie B and big Sam didn't have the same spells. :D

Yes, but they didn't believe their sh*t didn't stink. Unlike Gibbs and Murphy. Kreuser excepted...

Tell me where it's wrong though. I know it reads like an absurdity, but take a look at the reality. It's like Gibbs has applied his voodoo over there. He's been there not 5 minutes and the Crows are a basket case after being the Grand Final the year before. Tell me that's a coincidence.   O0

This is beyond absurd. What about the camp ? What about injuries to :
Luke Brown
Harry Dear
Rory Laird   
Tom Lynch
Rory Sloane
Riley Knight
Mitch McGovern
Paul Hunter   
Brodie Smith   
Brad Crouch
Taylor Walker

Those blokes are either out for large chunks of the season, or in and out over several weeks.

We've gone backwards since Gibbs left, so I guess applying your logic in reverse, he must have been our best player.

This is beyond absurd. What about the camp ? What about injuries to :
Luke Brown
Harry Dear
Rory Laird   
Tom Lynch
Rory Sloane
Riley Knight
Mitch McGovern
Paul Hunter   
Brodie Smith   
Brad Crouch
Taylor Walker

Those blokes are either out for large chunks of the season, or in and out over several weeks.

We've gone backwards since Gibbs left, so I guess applying your logic in reverse, he must have been our best player.

You forgot to add Jake Lever and Charlie C
Crows are a shadow of their side from last year.

You forgot to add Jake Lever and Charlie C
Crows are a shadow of their side from last year.

Yes, right you are rocky.

He's prone to some "Massive" rants ;) ;D

Yeah, he’s stealing others thunder and claiming it as his own... ????

Three number one picks, a number two pick, and Judd, not to mention Fevola, Stevens, Waite, Betts and another couple of hacks.
I won't get into yet another Pagan v Ratten barney, I'll only say that they were both bad appointments appointed for the wrong reasons, as was Malthouse.
We've lurched from one disaster to the next, and they've all been of our own making.

We had cream at the top but crap in the bottom half. The 2011 SF had 8.players off the rookie list. Other than Judd we had all those players were there under Pagan. Say what you want about Ratten he turned us from a basket case to finalist in 2 years.

We had cream at the top but crap in the bottom half. The 2011 SF had 8.players off the rookie list. Other than Judd we had all those players were there under Pagan. Say what you want about Ratten he turned us from a basket case to finalist in 2 years.

i guess richmond had their Rattan moment 2015/16. New board circling.
They learned from our misstep

We had cream at the top but crap in the bottom half. The 2011 SF had 8.players off the rookie list. Other than Judd we had all those players were there under Pagan. Say what you want about Ratten he turned us from a basket case to finalist in 2 years.

And no Krooz or Gibbs in that semi final.

b4l's mind is made up, and no opinion on here, and no positive thoughts on Ratts from the likes of Parkin, Clarkson, Kouta, Scotland, Bomber Riley, Ian Coutts etc., will change that.

The truth is we should have stuck with Malthouse.

The truth is we should have stuck with Malthouse.

He had to change his ways MBB, and he couldn't.

The time of one man calling all the shots is dead, no one individual can possible hope to coach against panels of 6 or 8 experienced people! The group will always come out on top!

He had to change his ways MBB, and he couldn't.

The time of one man calling all the shots is dead, no one individual can possible hope to coach against panels of 6 or 8 experienced people! The group will always come out on top!

He would outcoach Bolton and his hapless bunch of cronies anyday.

He would outcoach Bolton and his hapless bunch of cronies anyday.

It's very unlikely.

MM would have his moments like any good football coach, but on the whole he would be lost and confused unable to keep pace with the tactics or the game!

The systems we've put in place are the correct thing to do, now we just need to get it working which probably means pulling some square pegs from some round holes!

I think the next to go has to be the long term residents, we cannot keep chopping the newbies.

It's very unlikely.

MM would have his moments like any good football coach, but on the whole he would be lost and confused unable to keep pace with the tactics or the game!

The systems we've put in place are the correct thing to do, now we just need to get it working which probably means pulling some square pegs from some round holes!

I think the next to go has to be the long term residents, we cannot keep chopping the newbies.

He coached from the 80s till 3 years ago and was going great guns till he came to our rabble of a club. It was us not him.

We had cream at the top but crap in the bottom half. The 2011 SF had 8.players off the rookie list. Other than Judd we had all those players were there under Pagan. Say what you want about Ratten he turned us from a basket case to finalist in 2 years.

Then back to a basket case in another three. ????

He coached from the 80s till 3 years ago and was going great guns till he came to our rabble of a club. It was us not him.

We made a scapegoat out of him for sure but he was still a bad appointment.
I doubt that he really wanted the job to begin with but took it to stick it to Collingwood, and our supporters and members were never on board with him so it was a losing battle from the get go.
He was just another one in our long line of tactical disasters.

When he delayed coming to The club due to his book launch I knew he wasnt fair dinky.

When he delayed coming to The club due to his book launch I knew he wasnt fair dinky.

There was that, but he didn't get a fair crack at it anyway.
What strikes me is that we can seemingly take highly experienced, highly successful premiership coaches and turn them into hacks, yet here we are all these years later languishing on the bottom of the ladder after a new broom supposedly swept all of our error ridden past aside.
There's something very wrong at the CFC.
As for those defending Ratten, another abysmal coaching appointment in my view, they should ask themselves whether they would be so strident in their defence of him if he'd played his football at Richmond.

The truth is we should have stuck with Malthouse.

The truth is any coach is only as good as the club. Malthouse had the best talent at the Eagles, and the best support network possible at the Pies. The Pies team from the early 2000's were not elite, but they had Buckley (their Judd) and recruited tough accountable players who could play to  a system, and Malthouse coached them well. The talent profile had certainly changed for the better by 2010, 2011.

He coached for too long. The year off (2012) was a big thing that is underplayed IMO. Once you lose the momentum, especially at his age, it's very hard to get it back.

You need to ask yourself why we were the only club interested in his services, before he came to us and also after. No other club went near him. It's a big tell.

There was that, but he didn't get a fair crack at it anyway.
What strikes me is that we can seemingly take highly experienced, highly successful premiership coaches and turn them into hacks, yet here we are all these years later languishing on the bottom of the ladder after a new broom supposedly swept all of our error ridden past aside.
There's something very wrong at the CFC.
As for those defending Ratten, another abysmal coaching appointment in my view, they should ask themselves whether they would be so strident in their defence of him if he'd played his football at Richmond.

Yes.

Being 70 points behind at half time has nothing to do with Malthouse.

I got to listen to three snippets on 3LO.  Mark McClure was ripping right into the Blues - commenting on the rubbish kicks that miss their targets etc.  He did give some praise for the minor points after half time but also knew that Freo were going half pace then.

Voting would be pretty hard I would imagine, as I wouldn't think that many were any good when the team is that bad.

Seeing a little of the Werribee v Sandringham day got me thinking...

If you were told you were going to lose by 70 points, what would you prefer the score to be (average points per game is 165 this season):
 - 150 to 80
 - 120 to 50
 - 90 to 20

Hard to be a successful coach when you don't have them cattle,  and those you'd have aren't utilised to their strengths.

BTW has our prez come out of stasis to say anything of value?

Yes.

Another hypothetical.....as I love going over completely useless scenarios from the past in my mind....helps stave off insanity....or maybe it's an indication of the onset of it.  Anyway....

Would Hardwick still be coaching us if we'd appointed him around the time Ratts was extended ?

The truth is any coach is only as good as the club. Malthouse had the best talent at the Eagles, and the best support network possible at the Pies. The Pies team from the early 2000's were not elite, but they had Buckley (their Judd) and recruited tough accountable players who could play to  a system, and Malthouse coached them well. The talent profile had certainly changed for the better by 2010, 2011.

He coached for too long. The year off (2012) was a big thing that is underplayed IMO. Once you lose the momentum, especially at his age, it's very hard to get it back.

You need to ask yourself why we were the only club interested in his services, before he came to us and also after. No other club went near him. It's a big tell.

A good coach will get alot more out of a side, even a so-called poor side, than a crappy coach. Might not win a flag but they surprise you with how many they win. Same in any sport. Coach is the 2nd most important person in a club outside of the recruiter. If it all come down to talent and not the coach then why have a coach.

2014 the Dogs were behind us on the ladder. Changed coaches to Beveridge and they are finalists then win the flag. Players were a year more developed admittedly but it was essentially the same group.

Last year, while we won 6 games, we led 7 times in last qtrs and lost. Fair effort for a young side. Despite injuries, this year is a failure so far and if we finish with just one win then you'd have to convince me hard as to why Bolton should stay. That's unacceptable. If we get a few wins, well, that might be different.

Last year, while we won 6 games, we led 7 times in last qtrs and lost. Fair effort for a young side. Despite injuries, this year is a failure so far and if we finish with just one win then you'd have to convince me hard as to why Bolton should stay. That's unacceptable. If we get a few wins, well, that might be different.

x3

Might just be Gibbs
Eddie B and big Sam didn't have the same spells. :D

Could be Gibbs.

Could be they are playing without 7 of their top 10 B&F player from last season.

Or Gibbs


It's hard to tell.

There was that, but he didn't get a fair crack at it anyway.
What strikes me is that we can seemingly take highly experienced, highly successful premiership coaches and turn them into hacks, yet here we are all these years later languishing on the bottom of the ladder after a new broom supposedly swept all of our error ridden past aside.
There's something very wrong at the CFC.
As for those defending Ratten, another abysmal coaching appointment in my view, they should ask themselves whether they would be so strident in their defence of him if he'd played his football at Richmond.

Abysmal? You're F joking. We had generally an ordinary side and we got to play finals within 2 years after being a basket case like we are now. Open your eyes and have a look at his record compared to every other coach since 2001. Would've been alot more interesting if he had SOS as his List Manager rather than that dud Wayne Hughes, given we were close to a PF one year. We turned other sinto hacks, he turned us around. Imagine a coach a Carlton recently having a better than 50% record, playing finals, and in the year he was sacked for Malthouse he still won 11 games in  an injury hit year. We'd kill for that now. He did way better than Pagan and Malthouse, two "gun" coaches. while you talk about abysmal appointments I'll point to the scoreboard. I know who wins that one.

Another hypothetical.....as I love going over completely useless scenarios from the past in my mind....helps stave off insanity....or maybe it's an indication of the onset of it.  Anyway....

Would Hardwick still be coaching us if we'd appointed him around the time Ratts was extended ?

Ratts contract was extended at the end of 2011, and if we appointed Hardwick then, with the same results, my guess is he would be gone by now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Carlton_Football_Club_coaches

24   Alex Jesaulenko   76   53   22   1   70.39   1978–1979, 1989–1990
25   Peter Jones   24   17   7   0   70.83   1980
26   David Parkin   355   219   134   2   61.97   1981–1985, 1991–2000
27   Robert Walls   84   55   29   0   65.48   1986–1989
28   Wayne Brittain   46   18   28   0   39.13   2001–2002
29   Denis Pagan   104   25   77   2   24.04   2003–2007
30   Brett Ratten   120   60   59   1   50.00   2007–2012
31   Mick Malthouse   54   20   33   1   37.04   2013–2015
32   John Barker   13   3   10   0   23.08   2015
33   Brendon Bolton   44   13   31   0   29.55   2016–

Bring back Wallsy!!!

Interesting.

Last 5 coaches under 50% including to high profile coaches.   Maybe Palmer is onto something.

Bring back Wallsy!!!

Interesting.

Last 5 coaches under 50% including to high profile coaches.   Maybe Palmer is onto something.

The game has past him by.

The structure we now have is correct, the problem is implementation, both on and off field!

We had cream at the top but crap in the bottom half. The 2011 SF had 8.players off the rookie list. Other than Judd we had all those players were there under Pagan. Say what you want about Ratten he turned us from a basket case to finalist in 2 years.

We have become extremely emotive and reactive with our decision making.  Ironically with Ratten had we reviewed our situation properly we might have simply moved forward with him rather than changing to Malthouse. 

We have applied the same emotive decision making we used to sack Brittain, Appoint Pagan, Sack Pagan, Appoint Ratten, sack Ratten and then appoint Malthouse.  The club appear to have finally learned their lesson, and have sacked Malthouse for good reason, and then appointed Bolton with the appropriate decision making lacking from our football club in it's history.  Let's not go further back.  Football has been a very different business since the millenium, and it took us 15 years to come to gripps with the decision making required to suit the current era.  The problem is, we might be 15 years too late, and therefore still a bit behind the others today, but we can catch up quickly if we leave the footy team alone and start focussing on the rest of the place and what we need to get better at (simply running the place for a start).

Abysmal? You're F joking. We had generally an ordinary side and we got to play finals within 2 years after being a basket case like we are now. Open your eyes and have a look at his record compared to every other coach since 2001. Would've been alot more interesting if he had SOS as his List Manager rather than that dud Wayne Hughes, given we were close to a PF one year. We turned other sinto hacks, he turned us around. Imagine a coach a Carlton recently having a better than 50% record, playing finals, and in the year he was sacked for Malthouse he still won 11 games in  an injury hit year. We'd kill for that now. He did way better than Pagan and Malthouse, two "gun" coaches. while you talk about abysmal appointments I'll point to the scoreboard. I know who wins that one.

Without reinventing the wheel and covering off the old territory of this one I think we are at the point, where the only tangible information we can draw from any of this period is that the decision making of the footy club is more broken.

I had this opinion once before.  Its simply time to stop meddling in the football part of the football club, and start looking at the methodology behind running the place, which speaks for why we changed from Steven Trigg to Cain Liddle.  I am most enthused that Liddle has not appeared to do much aside from make a simple statement about our club culture which was 110% on the money.  We got ourselves into this situation and we will get ourselves out of it.

The structure we now have is correct, the problem is implementation, both on and off field!

Yep.  An often quoted statement at my place of employment.  We need to do better with the things we have, rather than look to add to them, or make changes and bring in more people.  For some time, we have been adding people to our footy club, and then dragging them down to our level.  We need to start doing the opposite and have people come in, and start bringing us up to their level. 

Cast your eye over Ratten's side of 2009 and you'll find 8 or 10 players who were either A grade or not far from it, do the same over this week's team and you'll struggle to find three.
That's the bottom line, it's a culmination of two decades of neglect and incompetence.

Cast your eye over Ratten's side of 2009 and you'll find 8 or 10 players who were either A grade or not far from it, do the same over this week's team and you'll struggle to find three.
That's the bottom line, it's a culmination of two decades of neglect and incompetence.

That might be true, but it's hard to blame Ratten for that and we might say similar about the current mob playing footy for us in 9 years time.

The recruitment of players under his tenure, says more about us than it did about Ratten.  The senior coach shouldnt be having as large an influence on list management as that because it becomes reactive.

There is a theme emerging that we need to spend a little more of our time doing critical analysis on.  We need to stop looking at the figures involved, and start looking at how the decisions were/are made.  To some degree individuals are part of that process, but on most levels of organisation people often do the best they can with the tools at their disposal.

We are looking at Bolton looking similarly befuddled as Ratten did back in 2012 and malthouse did in 2015.  There endeth the comparison.  Now we need to learn how to stop it from happening again and that's how you know we have progressed.

The game has past him by.

Agree 100%.   

That might be true, but it's hard to blame Ratten for that and we might say similar about the current mob playing footy for us in 9 years time

I'm not blaming Ratten in any shape or form, what I'm attempting to do is to explain the relative success that Ratten enjoyed in his first few seasons as compared to the situation Bolton finds himself in today.
The team we've been fielding over much of this season is as weak or weaker than anything Pagan had at his disposal, so I really don't know what more people expect.

Bring back Wallsy!!!

Interesting.

Last 5 coaches under 50% including to high profile coaches.   Maybe Palmer is onto something.

What is Palmer trying to say in his tweet, do you think?

What happened to him at CFC? How many seasons was he with us, I don’t even recall him tbh!  But if it’s just some hack that didn’t work hard enough to make it then why TF do we care what he has to say?

What is Palmer trying to say in his tweet, do you think?

What happened to him at CFC? How many seasons was he with us, I don’t even recall him tbh!  But if it’s just some hack that didn’t work hard enough to make it then why TF do we care what he has to say?

He played 1 game in the seniors, and was only with us for 1 season. I guess he had plenty of time on his hands to survey the joint.

He played 1 game in the seniors, and was only with us for 1 season. I guess he had plenty of time on his hands to survey the joint.

He also has refused every media request to elaborate. Fairly gutless really, throw on from behind then run away. Maybe that was the attitude he has for the 12 months and was therefore not required.

He also has refused every media request to elaborate. Fairly gutless really, throw on from behind then run away. Maybe that was the attitude he has for the 12 months and was therefore not required.

The reports I remember for the VFL last season had him as a good consistent performer. Maybe what you say is true, or maybe he's aggrieved because the club doesn't reward good form.

The reports I remember for the VFL last season had him as a good consistent performer. Maybe what you say is true, or maybe he's aggrieved because the club doesn't reward good form.

Was always very surprised he didn'r get more games. Clearly, a very capable player with a strong work ethic.

The reports I remember for the VFL last season had him as a good consistent performer. Maybe what you say is true, or maybe he's aggrieved because the club doesn't reward good form.

Likely he is disgruntled but that doesn't change the fact he is might just be the type to call it as he sees it.

We have won 2 of 22...…..and some loses this year have been downright awful and I myself doubted in the first half on Saturday if the players cared at all - certainly didn't play like a desperate team to get a win at home against an interstate mob who rarely win away and yet after an hour of indoors footy we were goal less.

So are Palmers comments that unbelievable?  Or is it just that they are coming from what many say is a big mouth that we have an out to discredit his comments. 

Likely he is disgruntled but that doesn't change the fact he is might just be the type to call it as he sees it.

We have won 2 of 22...…..and some loses this year have been downright awful and I myself doubted in the first half on Saturday if the players cared at all - certainly didn't play like a desperate team to get a win at home against an interstate mob who rarely win away and yet after an hour of indoors footy we were goal less.

So are Palmers comments that unbelievable?  Or is it just that they are coming from what many say is a big mouth that we have an out to discredit his comments.

Personally, I'm not swayed one way or the other, and I'm not fussed by what Palmer says or doesn't say. As I have said a few times, we have 4 teams, and they're all terrible. There's nothing more that needs to be said in my view. Our culture is in plain sight.

Personally, I'm not swayed one way or the other, and I'm not fussed by what Palmer says or doesn't say. As I have said a few times, we have 4 teams, and they're all terrible. There's nothing more that needs to be said in my view. Our culture is in plain sight.

Can you have a good culture and lose games? Can you have a bad culture and win premierships?

Can you have a good culture and lose games? Can you have a bad culture and win premierships?

It's possible. I think for discussion purposes, one can distinguish between on field and off field culture, although in reality they're tightly intertwined.  We don't seem to have any troublemakers, but we don't really seem to have any match winners either.

Thinking solely about the mens senior team for now, my hope is that what we are seeing is down to inexperience and growing pains, that simply with the passage of time, games into kids, games into Bolton, that the boys will get it together. But maybe I'm naive.

Why wouldn’t he be played if he earned it in the VFL?

Two out of twenty two games....

Expand it by ten more games.

If you add more than three wins you can ignore that bullcrap.

Can you have a good culture and lose games? Can you have a bad culture and win premierships?

West Coast would say yes, but culture can mean different things to different people.
Carlton's culture was one of unbridled arrogance, we've certainly got nothing to be arrogant about these days but old habits die hard.

There's a couple of different types of culture.

One is to do with the players.  This culture isn't as important to be good or bad so long as they're committed to the club.  I think this is what Richmond have managed to work out over the last three years.  They're not model professionals but they're committed to each other and the club.

The most important culture is club culture.   It's the basis for how everything at the football club operates whilst they're there.  It's what makes people feel valued and it's what dictates how people operate.

Our club has not been the model of operations in recent history.

Once upon a time we had the reputation as being the professionals.  Now we're playing catch up.

Who's talking the most sense in this segment...I know who I pick ;) :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiL9Y3E4E20&feature=youtu.be

There are three hell bent on whacking our kids and our coach, no matter what happened on the day they are not prepared to give any ground.

There is some irony around Duck being a voice of intelligent reason! I believe Duck when he says he cares for the game, the other clearly go for the glory, ratings and content that controversy brings! Of course Duck is probably the only one on the panel that doesn't need the job!

The worry is that our club will again allow itself to be driven by the media, in much the same way that the MM appointment came about!

TF is the only footy show I get to watch and I’ve noted that Duck is a big supporter of Bolton/CFC, makes a nice change.

As for the issues raised, everyone’s point was valid.

TF is the only footy show I get to watch and I’ve noted that Duck is a big supporter of Bolton/CFC, makes a nice change.

As for the issues raised, everyone’s point was valid.

You can tell from the comments made who are men and who are boys, you can also build a loose association between the type of comments they make and the type of player they were. Players who kick somebody when they are down! Have a look at Lyon joining in the kicking today, Garry Lyon, really?

Again given the context of this discussion the Duck perspective has it's irony, but he's clearly the man!

Lets not mince words, Darcy is pushing the wagon to deflect from the Dogs dismal efforts(Did you know they were premiers two seasons ago, yet Carlton is the big issue after the weekend!), BT is led like a brainless bull into any debate that delivers him a feed, and Brown is beholding to the scraps offered by others. They are are bottom feeders that would make Hunchy proud!

You can tell from the comments made who are men and who are boys, you can also build a loose association between the type of comments they make and the type of player they were. Players who kick somebody when they are down! Have a look at Lyon joining in the kicking today, Garry Lyon, really?

Again given the context of this discussion the Duck perspective has it's irony, but he's clearly the man!

Lets not mince words, Darcy is pushing the wagon to deflect from the Dogs dismal efforts(Did you know they were premiers two seasons ago, yet Carlton is the big issue after the weekend!), BT is led like a brainless bull into any debate that delivers him a feed, and Brown is beholding to the scraps offered by others. They are are bottom feeders that would make Hunchy proud!

BT is a fool.

He doesn't have anything worth noting to say and speaks only to be heard.

BT is a fool.

He doesn't have anything worth noting to say and speaks only to be heard.

Yep, speaks a lot but doesn't say anything.

BT is a fool.

He doesn't have anything worth noting to say and speaks only to be heard.

But there remains in the general public a large contigency that want to believe;

As Simon & Garfunkel wrote;

I am just a poor boy though my story's seldom told
I have squandered my resistance for a pocketful of mumbles, such are promises
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest!

But there remains in the general public a large contigency that want to believe;

As Simon & Garfunkel wrote;

"In the clearing stands a boxer
And a fighter by his trade"

we could do with a few of these !

"In the clearing stands a boxer
And a fighter by his trade"

we could do with a few of these !

I do agree, and not just on the field!

I suppose the on field part is why Mitch Robinson's name appears in some recent threads!

Who's talking the most sense in this segment...I know who I pick ;) :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiL9Y3E4E20&feature=youtu.be

One of the reasons I listen more closely to some commentators than others. I've always taken more notice of Duck's thoughts than many others. However, the others were also right. How come we rolled up half asleep? Where were our leaders in the first half? Was it 2016 when we rocked up to the Gabba for a very winnable game and stunk the place up in the first half, only to almost snatch it in the 2nd half?

I guess the bottom line is we seem to have 4 categories of blokes at our club, the leaders/experienced blokes have been brought up on failure (apart from a tease in 2011 - perhaps our senior blokes learned something from Juddy?) so they haven't learned behaviour around excellence in every minute of every game, kids... we all know the inconsistencies you get with these, journeymen and glass men.

One of the reasons I listen more closely to some commentators than others. I've always taken more notice of Duck's thoughts than many others. However, the others were also right. How come we rolled up half asleep? Where were our leaders in the first half? Was it 2016 when we rocked up to the Gabba for a very winnable game and stunk the place up in the first half, only to almost snatch it in the 2nd half?

I guess the bottom line is we seem to have 4 categories of blokes at our club, the leaders/experienced blokes have been brought up on failure (apart from a tease in 2011 - perhaps our senior blokes learned something from Juddy?) so they haven't learned behaviour around excellence in every minute of every game, kids... we all know the inconsistencies you get with these, journeymen and glass men.

Yes they did have a point
....and its a point Carey kept conceding   but they wouldn't wear his observations which were probably more valid.
Ignorant!

Carey has some baggage but he knows more about football than quite a few.
I wonder can he coach?

This isn't a good look.

https://streamable.com/zmf8x

Hurts even more coming out of that maggot Roos' mouth.
Did make me laugh though when Roos says "...And we've been supportive of Carlton". I'll admit a few in the media in recent weeks, until last weekend, have been supportive, but I've never heard anything except negative come out of Roos' mouth when it comes to Carlton.

This isn't a good look.

https://streamable.com/zmf8x

The vision doesnt lie, pathetic.

This isn't a good look.

https://streamable.com/zmf8x

They showed similar footage on Access All Areas. It's pretty bad viewing, and should be highlighted, but in the interest of balance they maybe should have mentioned the 2nd half effort, which was better. Yes, it was too little too late, but telling only half the story is pretty poor reporting, unfortunately now par for the course.

And Brown is dumb as dogsh1t, and an overrated leader.

They showed similar footage on Access All Areas. It's pretty bad viewing, and should be highlighted, but in the interest of balance they maybe should have mentioned the 2nd half effort, which was better. Yes, it was too little too late, but telling only half the story is pretty poor reporting, unfortunately now par for the course.

And Brown is dumb as dogsh1t, and an overrated leader.

I think that they were highlighting our lack of effort and resistance while Freo piled on 12 goals to zero, which was when the game was won and lost.
Legitimate reporting in my view.

Yep I agree, we deserve every bit of crap that gets thrown at us after that first half

I think that they were highlighting our lack of effort and resistance while Freo piled on 12 goals to zero, which was when the game was won and lost.
Legitimate reporting in my view.

It's only half the story. They don't mention the fact that we won the 2nd half - they highlight the negative and leave the rest out. It's not much I know, but why leave it out ?

It's only half the story. They don't mention the fact that we won the 2nd half - they highlight the negative and leave the rest out. It's not much I know, but why leave it out ?

Doesn't help the story and let's face it even die hard supporters would have drawn little comfort from the second half given what was dished up earlier. RIgth now we are a good side bar for the media as they can refer to our plight any time they need some filler. We need to shut up and put up some decent performances in order for this to change.

It's only half the story. They don't mention the fact that we won the 2nd half - they highlight the negative and leave the rest out. It's not much I know, but why leave it out ?

Because it's pretty much irrelevant, the first half was the story of the game.

Looking at kerridge he looks like he's maintaining presence in the corridor and forcing players wide in an effort to protect a zone (albeit poorly which might be why he wasn't playing seniors earlier).

Even when he stops in the back half, he does so in a space no one else is occupying and is blocking a leading channel (but not all that "switched on").

Rowe's effort needs no examining.   He was pushed out of a contest and had no hope catching anyone.  For each of these efforts there's another you can point to that says otherwise and the effort to chase down billy Gowers comes to mind against the doggies.

Kerridge looks like he's out for a Sunday morning jog to me, if what he's doing in that clip is following the coach's instructions we need a new coach.

Whatever they were trying to do was pretty ineffective ::)

Yep I agree, we deserve every bit of crap that gets thrown at us after that first half

As a mate of mine said, time for BB to stop acting like a school teacher and start acting like a coach. Rowe, Kerridge and anyone else that is in similar damning footage, must be dropped this week.

This isn't a good look.

https://streamable.com/zmf8x

Terrible !!
When did Lance get eaten by Lyon ? ????????????

As a mate of mine said, time for BB to stop acting like a school teacher and start acting like a coach. Rowe, Kerridge and anyone else that is in similar damning footage, must be dropped this week.

Fair points GTC...I think teaching is BB's forte and his lack of coaching experience is hurting us as he learns on the job...5 games for Hawthorn coaching a team that coached themselves was always going to be the doubt on BB... Great Assistant....but lacking experience as a senior coach and the club would be thinking about a different coaching structure IMO where his talents are used more during the week and his weak areas such as game day coaching/tactics/pre planning given more assistance....

Fair points GTC...I think teaching is BB's forte and his lack of coaching experience is hurting us as he learns on the job...5 games for Hawthorn coaching a team that coached themselves was always going to be the doubt on BB... Great Assistant....but lacking experience as a senior coach and the club would be thinking about a different coaching structure IMO where his talents are used more during the week and his weak areas such as game day coaching/tactics/pre planning given more assistance....

Happy to give him the time to get off the L plates. Gotta get your experience somehow. Lets face, we got one with 700 games of experience, how did that turn out? All I'm saying when its time to kent up, its time to kent up. After Sat first half, its time.
PS If they dont drop a few this week, they are tanking.

Happy to give him the time to get off the L plates. Gotta get your experience somehow. Lets face, we got one with 700 games of experience, how did that turn out? All I'm saying when its time to kent up, its time to kent up. After Sat first half, its time.
PS If they dont drop a few this week, they are tanking.

We can't drop too many, Kennedy had 29 touches in the magoos but after him it was daylight.
Garlett maybe, but then you're really struggling.

Happy to give him the time to get off the L plates. Gotta get your experience somehow. Lets face, we got one with 700 games of experience, how did that turn out? All I'm saying when its time to kent up, its time to kent up. After Sat first half, its time.
PS If they dont drop a few this week, they are tanking.

Are we ruining kids in the meantime, I like Bolton but her wiz they made a great point on the Carlton show this week. They play jack in the 2s to learn to play midfield, when. He comes into the seniors he plays anywhere but!

We can't drop too many, Kennedy had 29 touches in the magoos but after him it was daylight.
Garlett maybe, but then you're really struggling.

De Koning for casboult

We can't drop too many, Kennedy had 29 touches in the magoos but after him it was daylight.
Garlett maybe, but then you're really struggling.

Surely its not too hard put this video up in front of them all

https://streamable.com/zmf8x

and tell a couple of the kids "all you have to do is beat these p!$$ weak efforts and you earn yourself a spot for the rest of the year".

Surely it aint that hard.

No, but for Kerr? Yes.

We need Levi up there....he was out for what, 6 weeks?

And Harry should come in, if better. Play Charlie on the wing and in the guts - get him fully involved in a game, he has the tank!!

Our MC is half our problem imo.

I've lost faith in Levi.   Averages barely a goal a game,  applies zero defensive pressure, doesn't run to the ball carrier demanding the pill.  And for a bloke his size applies neglible physical presence.  He's had enough chances,  his one trick isn't enough.

I've lost faith in Levi.   Averages barely a goal a game,  applies zero defensive pressure, doesn't run to the ball carrier demanding the pill.  And for a bloke his size applies neglible physical presence.  He's had enough chances,  his one trick isn't enough.

You're getting a bit radical now ProfE!

As much as he's been better this season, he just doesn't bring what we need 200cm players to bring, physical presence and intimidation.

Fans expect Murphy to be Hodge like, while at the same time giving some of our 200cm types like Levi and Jones a pass mark for bruise free and intimidation free football! There is a reason Kreuzer, Rowe and ACoS(When he's fit) stand out, and why in the absence of Williamson and Macreadie we look a bit soft!

But hardness can be stuff other than intimidation, it can be gut running like Murphy(Bradley being the A-Grade example), but other than Kreuzer our 200cm types don't bring that either! I'm not expecting them to be heavy weight boxers, MMA fighters or Olympic Triathletes, but they have to bring something of those characteristics if you are recruiting players like Wright, Fisher, SPS, Pickett, Le Bois, Garlett and O'Brien to play at their feet. It's Levi's absence of physicality that makes it impossible for our smalls to operate in F50, it's why I prefer Kerr long term because he is prepared to use his bulk to a team-mates advantage.

For Levi he has to physically intimidate opposition players, or he has to run the opposition ruck into the ground, the occasional mark jumping over the pack just isn't enough!

As much as fans like Jones, he's damaging our D50 because he won't mark the ball even when he's clear, our KPDs are in general gun shy to marking! Jones also not physically intimidating, but he does jump, run and chase, why not "set him free" and let him do that where it does far less harm! Not as a KPF, but as a small forward or HFF! We are chaotic going into F50 anyway, it's not like he is going to destroy our structure because as far as I can tell we have none!

Casboult had the chance to sort Ballantyne out for being in the hole (not that he leads as he should) and didn't do them job.

At least McKay runs around,  he can also kick.

At least McKay runs around,  he can also kick.

I support McKay being dropped though, you cannot have +200cm players taking zero marks in reasonable weather conditions at Geelong! It was near perfect for a +200cm type.

In regards to the young blokes, I don't care whether they kick 3 goals or 5 straight behinds, as long as they bring something that benefits the team! I want the effort and some presence, some sacrifice!

Don't see Casboult doing much either,  actually I'm not sure what he does. Agree that McKay needed a spell,  but it's time injuries notwithstanding.

Casboult just isn't any good but we haven't had a decent key forward since Fevola and he's the best of a crappy lot.
Our desperation is showing by playing Kerr, who is way off the pace of senior AFL football.
We'll have to go back to the draft and try and get one but we need to give up on finding one at pick 20 or 30, the Ben Browns of the world come along occasionally but most of the real good kids command a high price.

Casboult just isn't any good but we haven't had a decent key forward since Fevola and he's the best of a crappy lot.
Our desperation is showing by playing Kerr, who is way off the pace of senior AFL football.

If Kerr is off the pace, then McKay and Levi must be in Emergency for resuscitation!

I do worry when I hear our coaches telling us Kerr needs to improve his running patterns, I have to question their knowledge of forward play. Because I've watched Kerr closely and he's a mile ahead of our other KPF options when it comes to leading for the football. For that matter, SoJ is also well ahead of some of the other options, but he just doesn't have the necessary size, strength and pace to fill the role. At the moment our best KPF would be a Kerr/SoJ hybrid leaving Charlie free to roam upfield!

A game or two back Kerr was up and about but we either butchered the ball trying to deliver it, or we ignored him completely. Our ball carriers just couldn't bring themself to pull the trigger early enough, and it seems our coaches blamed Kerr's running patterns. Kerr must have been doing the Billy Brownless decoy forward role but without Carlton having anyone except Wright to fill Ablett Snr's job!

In the last McKay game I think Kerr and Charlie also played together. McKay repeatedly committed two mortal sins for an AFL KPF. Firstly, he took his direct opponent to the contest even when we had one on ones inside F50. Secondly, instead of competing overhead he roved leaving some smaller players trying to mark the football. He had zero marks on the day!

If you want to be the man, you had better be the man!

Kerr moves and acts like a real forward, lost confidence with his kicking after that passing fiasco to Kreuzer but he knows how to lead and get the footy
and the kid also doesnt mind a bit of push and shove either and is made of the right stuff,. We need to persist with him...

Kerr moves and acts like a real forward, lost confidence with his kicking after that passing fisaco to Kreuzer but he knows how to lead and get the footy
and the kid also doesnt mind a bit of push and shove either and is made of the right stuff,. We need to persist with him...

By all means, I doubt that he'll make the grade but I'll be very happy to be proven wrong.

Kerr moves and acts like a real forward, lost confidence with his kicking after that passing fiasco to Kreuzer but he knows how to lead and get the footy
and the kid also doesnt mind a bit of push and shove either and is made of the right stuff,. We need to persist with him...

Yep, I've noticed we've give him some runs in the ruck as well, he has the leap and aggression.

When the coaches come out and bag his running patterns, I'm assuming this is one of three things;

 - They are not talking about leading patterns.
 - They are offering a bog standard cliché answer to a press nerd.
 - They are idiots!

Hard to be a successful coach when you don't have them cattle,  and those you'd have aren't utilised to their strengths.

we havent had cattle for 15 years,

Yep, I've noticed we've give him some runs in the ruck as well, he has the leap and aggression.

When the coaches come out and bag his running patterns, I'm assuming this is one of three things;

 - They are not talking about leading patterns.
 - They are offering a bog standard cliché answer to a press nerd.
 - They are idiots!

They arent worried about his leading, they are worried about the timing of his leading.

I.e.

Hes leading along with other forwards or he isnt leading when he should be or perhaps not as often as he could be.

Im no expert but thats how i interpret speak.

They arent worried about his leading, they are worried about the timing of his leading.

I.e.

Hes leading along with other forwards or he isnt leading when he should be or perhaps not as often as he could be.

Im no expert but thats how i interpret speak.

That how I initially interpret the speak coming from the coaches, and I think it's rubbish.

Kerr's a natural forward, he is by some margin the best lead up forward we have, I'm not saying he is Fev or Lance, but he's better than the others we have. Kerr actually leads up the guts regularly, but our mids and HBFs are dead-set petrified of kicking it there! Either they have no confidence, or they do not want to chase if they fork it up, or they are told not to! As a result everyone ends up in a pocket!

The other problem is our mids and HBF mark the ball on the wing and go sideways, or the kick the ball on his head, or kick the ball over his head, or kick the ball 30m away from where he's heading! Which often results in our KPF, whoever it is, marking the ball 70m from goal!

If Fev was in the current team he would be going ballistic, taking off his boots and throwing them at the bench!

I am reminded of a Dev team I was involved in many years back, we had a coach who told the mids they had to run straight at goal, get the ball and go, even if it meant you ran into opponents. He coached this tactic because as the time we had a goal kicking but dud KPF, who couldn't think his way out of a paper bag but could mark and kick goals given a one on one. But, he gave and we got exactly one chance at leading per midfield play which the coach wasn't prepared to burn on a delayed exit from the midfield. In the end the opposition quickly learned our tactics and we lost the finals series, we had structured a game plan around a player's weakness.

It reminds me of Carlton, we can't kick so we don't, and in the process of trying to minimize mistakes/risk we remove all opportunity and unpredictability! We are a pre-programmed car crash!

If our kids have any talent, give them some advantage and see if they can make something of it, don't smother then to death trying to keep them safe!

My interpretation was that it is more about repeat leads. Kerr leads well, but if the ball doesn't get kicked to him he seems to get lost and wander around rather than pushing hard back and going again

Reading the report in the Sunday paper it was pretty scathing, the only two players who got pass marks from the journo were Simpson and Cripps.
He said that Kreuzer provided something up forward in the third quarter and that Ed battled away although he butchered the ball.
Basically he said that we made every mistake in the book, and he quoted Mark Maclure as saying that it was the worst performance he'd ever seen from a Carlton team
So we aren't in a good place, the next couple of weeks will tell us whether we can show some resolve or wither on the vine.

You're getting a bit radical now ProfE!

As much as he's been better this season, he just doesn't bring what we need 200cm players to bring, physical presence and intimidation.

Fans expect Murphy to be Hodge like, while at the same time giving some of our 200cm types like Levi and Jones a pass mark for bruise free and intimidation free football! There is a reason Kreuzer, Rowe and ACoS(When he's fit) stand out, and why in the absence of Williamson and Macreadie we look a bit soft!

But hardness can be stuff other than intimidation, it can be gut running like Murphy(Bradley being the A-Grade example), but other than Kreuzer our 200cm types don't bring that either! I'm not expecting them to be heavy weight boxers, MMA fighters or Olympic Triathletes, but they have to bring something of those characteristics if you are recruiting players like Wright, Fisher, SPS, Pickett, Le Bois, Garlett and O'Brien to play at their feet. It's Levi's absence of physicality that makes it impossible for our smalls to operate in F50, it's why I prefer Kerr long term because he is prepared to use his bulk to a team-mates advantage.

For Levi he has to physically intimidate opposition players, or he has to run the opposition ruck into the ground, the occasional mark jumping over the pack just isn't enough!

As much as fans like Jones, he's damaging our D50 because he won't mark the ball even when he's clear, our KPDs are in general gun shy to marking! Jones also not physically intimidating, but he does jump, run and chase, why not "set him free" and let him do that where it does far less harm! Not as a KPF, but as a small forward or HFF! We are chaotic going into F50 anyway, it's not like he is going to destroy our structure because as far as I can tell we have none!

Over analysing things perhaps LP?

I saw Casboult put Sandilands down, and he took quite a while to get up. That’s not a bad effort for a bloke returning after a broken rib.

I reckon Jones did pretty well with his marking too.

Jones and Casboult are the least of our problems; a shallow, undersized midfield and playing Simpson, Thomas and Lamb as defenders puts us behind the eight ball ???? to start with.