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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3870 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Apparently 40% of 0eople hospitalised with covid in the UK are double vaccinated.

Its not the shield people think it is.

The official statement (corrected from an earlier one) is that 60% of hospital admissions are unvvacinated, which means the remaining 40% would be either single dose or double dose. I don't think you can assume how many of those have received both shots. Being admitted to hospital is bad enough, but you'd need to see the severity of illness / symptoms, duration of stay in hospital etc. between the two groups to draw further conclusions. They're not all on the same level simply because they've been admitted. The other issue is long covid.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3871 –
Quote from: PaulP on
The official statement (corrected from an earlier one) is that 60% of hospital admissions are unvvacinated, which means the remaining 40% would be either single dose or double dose. I don't think you can assume how many of those have received both shots. Being admitted to hospital is bad enough, but you'd need to see the severity of illness / symptoms, duration of stay in hospital etc. between the two groups to draw further conclusions. They're not all on the same level simply because they've been admitted. The other issue is long covid.

Just passing on what I've heard.

I dont care about figures, I care about facts.

Fact.  The vaccine isn't a magic bullet fix for covid and guarantees nothing.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3872 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Just passing on what I've heard.

I dont care about figures, I care about facts.

Fact.  The vaccine isn't a magic bullet fix for covid and guarantees nothing.

I don't really know what to make of that. I find your second and third sentences rather strange to be honest. There may people somewhere on the planet that think the vaccines are a guarantee, but that is much more a comment on them. The amount of information out there on covid is suffocating. If after all that, those people still don't understand what a vaccine does, I'm not sure what else can be done to get through.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3873 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Apparently 40% of 0eople hospitalised with covid in the UK are double vaccinated.

Its not the shield people think it is.
No vaccine has 100% efficacy, no vaccine has ever had 100% efficacy.

When you vaccinate whole country populations you still have hundreds of thousands of people that the vaccines won't work for, but you will still save or reduce the suffering of millions!

There is a term for sowing doubt about vaccines in the way some try, it's called Seeding Certain Uncertainty. The naysayers basically argue that the vaccine isn't perfect, so the inference is why bother, but nobody ever claimed the vaccines are perfect, and it is only the naysayers that try to assert imperfection is somehow unworthy or a fail.

The vaccines are overwhelmingly successful, there is no need to fear them and there is certainly no need to spread the seeds of doubt.

The hunt for perfection should never become the enemy of good or excellent.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3874 –
Quote from: PaulP on
I don't really know what to make of that. I find your second and third sentences rather strange to be honest. There may people somewhere on the planet that think the vaccines are a guarantee, but that is much more a comment on them. The amount of information out there on covid is suffocating. If after all that, those people still don't understand what a vaccine does, I'm not sure what else can be done to get through.

You got an answer commensurate with your response.

People admitted to hospital are generally not well.

Its important that irrespective of vaccination rates our future is actually likely to be worse than we are seeing today.

As for sowing vaccine doubt, that is neither here nor there.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3875 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
....................................
People admitted to hospital are generally not well.

Its important that irrespective of vaccination rates our future is actually likely to be worse than we are seeing today.
..............................

Players on an AFL injury list are also not well. Some might only be on that list for a week, and other might be gone for 12 months. Not all hospital admissions are the same, and without comparing the various issues I mentioned above, it's difficult to say much more.

The whole point of mass vaccination is precisely to achieve a better future.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3876 –

Quote from: Thryleon on
Its important that irrespective of vaccination rates our future is actually likely to be worse than we are seeing today.
 .................. better than it could have been!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3877 –
If you two stopped arguing for an outcome and exercised a modicum of understanding you'd quickly discover the following thought process and point being made.

In a situation where nsw has 85 odd in icu off less than 5000 cases, in a future state where we are all vaccinated irrespective of Vaccination we are going to see rising hospitalisation off rising positive cases.

Even if this is a better outcome to the alternative (no this isn't an argument against Vaccination) the worst is still ahead of us and its a lot worse than our current state of being.

THAT is the fact.  Or are you guys too busy pushing an outcome that the reality of our situation hasn't dawned on you?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3878 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
THAT is the fact.  Or are you guys too busy pushing an outcome that the reality of our situation hasn't dawned on you?
It's not a certainty though that these cases will be ICU, long term hospitalisation of critical care, or that the ratios of severe to mild won't be adjusted by the vaccine, and there is no doubt there would be far far more without the vaccines.

Hospitals will thank the vaccine, much like the cheering crowds at Wimbledon thanking some of it's inventors, without the vaccine the consequence is unmanageable and unmentionable.

The assertion that things will get worse and that is someway a justification to decry the vaccines is ridiculous and bizarre coming from someone in the health industry. What other motive do you have for the drive by comment PaulP reacted to?

Sowing seeds of doubt is serious, somewhere someone will be petrified of the vaccine as a result of those inferences, and they will die. I'd even safely assert some already have forgone the opportunity to vaccinate and have died as a result!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3879 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
If you two stopped arguing for an outcome and exercised a modicum of understanding you'd quickly discover the following thought process and point being made.

In a situation where nsw has 85 odd in icu off less than 5000 cases, in a future state where we are all vaccinated irrespective of Vaccination we are going to see rising hospitalisation off rising positive cases.

Even if this is a better outcome to the alternative (no this isn't an argument against Vaccination) the worst is still ahead of us and its a lot worse than our current state of being.

THAT is the fact.  Or are you guys too busy pushing an outcome that the reality of our situation hasn't dawned on you?

Where does the 85 in ICU number come from?
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3880 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Just passing on what I've heard.

I dont care about figures, I care about facts.

Fact.  The vaccine isn't a magic bullet fix for covid and guarantees nothing.

Analysis carried out in the UK indicates:

> the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is 96% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses.

> the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is 92% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses.

Not perfect, but not bad.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3881 –
Quote from: DJC on
Analysis carried out in the UK indicates:

> the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is 96% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses.

> the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is 92% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses.

Not perfect, but not bad.

If someone told me I had a 92% chance of winning Tattslotto this w/e, I'd dare to fantasize about how I'd spend the loot.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3882 –
Remember, age is a massive variable. A double-vaccinated 80 year old only has the resistance of an unvaccinated 50 year old. That’s a massive improvement but there’s still plenty of room for infection. An article from a month or so ago claimed that no double-dosed under-50 year olds had died this year in the UK. If that’s still true, that would be a remarkable endorsement of vaccinations.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3883 –
Interesting article by a science reporter from The Age:

Worried about AstraZeneca? Me too. The way we think about risk might be the problem, The Age.

Quote
I have spent nearly the entire pandemic reporting on the science of vaccines. The evidence leaves us in no doubt: they are one of humanity’s greatest medical inventions and are directly responsible for saving tens of millions of lives.
Hence, why I’m surprised that I find myself fretting just a little as I wait for Thursday – when I’m scheduled to get my first AstraZeneca jab.
I know the risk pales in comparison to others I take every day, yet I am worried about getting a blood clot and dying.
The answer to why this is – why I find myself worrying far more about AstraZeneca’s side effects than I probably should – reveals how our brains think about risk. And how they often get it wrong.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3884 –
Quote from: DJC on
Analysis carried out in the UK indicates:

> the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is 96% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses.

> the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is 92% effective against hospitalisation after 2 doses.

Not perfect, but not bad.

Meanwhile, 60% of hospitalised patients in the UK with COVID have been double vaxxed.

How that equates to 90%++ efficacy in stopping hospitalisation is anyone's guess.

Reeks of blatant lies.



Finals, then 4 in a row!