Carlton Supporters Club

Those fact check sites are drivel.

As is your usual, incapable of addressing the substance so swipe at the man.....

He's a nationally recognised pathologist. Eminently qualified to comment.

Hmm, his math is drivel, 11,045 vaccine deaths in the US would need 1,200,000,000 vaccinations! Unless Pfizer is 4x more deadly just to Americans!

He claims "they report" not one death from vaccine, nobody hurt from vaccine, he claims "that is what they tell you"

That is his lie!

The USA has only purchased about 500,000,000 Pfizer doses, and has only issued 208,000,000 Pfizer doses to July 2021!

My last comment on this as too many of you have your heads firmly below ground.

Those fact check sites are drivel.

As is your usual, incapable of addressing the substance so swipe at the man.....

He's a nationally recognised pathologist. Eminently qualified to comment.

To those bogus claims, Cole has now added: “mRNA trials in mammals have led to odd cancers. mRNA trials on mammals have led to autoimmune diseases — not right away, six, nine, 12 months later.”

We asked Cole to provide support for those claims, and he referred us to a 2018 paper published in the journal Nature Reviews Drug Discovery that reviewed trials and studies of various, earlier mRNA vaccines.

But that paper doesn’t support his statement.

Norbert Pardi, a research assistant professor of medicine at the University of Pennsylvania, was the lead author of the paper. He told us in an email, “No publications demonstrate that mRNA vaccines cause cancer or autoimmune diseases.”

Pardi’s 19-page paper does make one passing reference to autoimmune diseases, which is what Cole highlighted to us.

The paper says: “A possible concern could be that some mRNA-based vaccine platforms induce potent type I interferon responses, which have been associated not only with inflammation but also potentially with autoimmunity. Thus, identification of individuals at an increased risk of autoimmune reactions before mRNA vaccination may allow reasonable precautions to be taken.”

But, Pardi explained, he and the other researchers included that passage because they wanted to note some potential concerns. However, he emphasized that “no scientific evidence has confirmed that these concerns are real.”

It’s also worth noting that the paper predated the COVID-19 pandemic by two years, so it doesn’t include any information specifically about the COVID-19 vaccines.

Simply put, “there is no scientific evidence that shows that mRNA vaccines cause autoimmune diseases,” Pardi said. “Multiple clinical trials have been performed with mRNA vaccines in the past 10 years and none of them found that mRNA vaccination caused autoimmune diseases. Further, we are not aware of any studies showing an autoimmune disease appearing many months after vaccination as Dr. Cole inaccurately suggests.”

Likewise, Dr. Roger Shapiro, associate professor of immunology and infectious diseases at Harvard’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health, told us in an email that he was unaware of any study that would support Cole’s claim that the vaccines are carcinogenic.

“There is nothing in the science of mRNA vaccines that would suggest carcinogenicity, and they have been tested in humans for other diseases before COVID-19,” Shapiro said. “mRNA rapidly breaks down in the body, and probably does not last long enough to act as a carcinogen.”

“Regarding autoimmunity,” he said, “this is always a concern with any medical product, but there is no evidence to date suggesting it, and it does not seem any more likely than with other vaccines. mRNA is made all the time in our bodies, and delivering it by vaccine should not be different.”

Dr. Dean Winslow, an infectious disease physician at Stanford Health Care, concurred with the other experts with whom we spoke. In a phone interview, he characterized Cole’s claims about cancer as “fearmongering” and said, “There’s just no scientific basis for that.”

“We’re talking about these very small fragments of messenger RNA that don’t hang around for long at all,” he said, noting that the mRNA vaccines have been in use for almost six months and have been “very safe, very well-tolerated vaccines.”

Winslow recognized that some people are concerned that the mRNA from the vaccine might persist in their bodies and somehow change their genetics or cause long-term effects. So he emphasized that the vaccines have small fragments of RNA, which survive only briefly and carry information about the virus that causes COVID-19.

Similarly, Pardi told us, “COVID-19 mRNA vaccines do not alter our DNA and they get rapidly degraded so they do not promote cancer formation.”

Fancy that: the good doctor makes a bombshell claim that mRNA trials had led to autoimmune disease but when challenged he sought to rely on a paper whose lead author says his paper didn’t support that claim. And experts in the area call Cole out for fearmongering and having no scientific basis for his claims.

As Covid improves, we get slacker. Last Wednesday I was watching my son’s footy training with another 4 fathers in the vicinity. I was the only one masked notwithstanding the law required masking outdoors, we’d just come out of a lockdown and the signs were there we’d be going back into lockdown. And when we need to lockdown, you can always trust the antilockdown nuffies to spread it around just a little bit more.

I’ve noticed you tend to project your faults on others. You regularly engage in ad hominem attacks but accuse others of using that tactic. And then you condemn taking “swipes at the man” but you do so immediately after declaring “Those fact check sites are drivel.” Hypocritical at best.

Of course, you know the fact check article we posted didn’t just say “he’s a wanker”. The fact checkers critiqued the good doctor methodically and compendiously. Just to take but 1 aspect:Fancy that: the good doctor makes a bombshell claim that mRNA trials had led to autoimmune disease but when challenged he sought to rely on a paper whose lead author says his paper didn’t support that claim. And experts in the area call Cole out for fearmongering and having no scientific basis for his claims.

And remember this is just one baseless claim amongst others that were methodically  debunked.

Well, well, well, it looks as though the good doctor is nationally recognised as a fraud.

No publications demonstrate that mRNA vaccines cause cancer or autoimmune diseases.

And therefor they're safe? 77, you're putting words/interpretations into the mouth of another. The quote that Wingman MAV shared, simply quoted that there is no evidence that xyz causes cancer. Full stop. You're manufacturing an interpretation to suit you narrative. No vaccine, no medication is 100% safe. You simply cannot think in absolutes when it comes to medications and vaccines.

If you read the sheet listing potential side-effects and risks associated with the medication I take for the management of PTSD (anxiety/depression disorders), you'd be fear struck and not touch it. But the alternative is far worse - poor quality of life and the potential for worsening mental health to the point of contemplating yourself leaving planet Earth. The plusses far, far out weigh the side-effects. I need liver function tests every 12 months to monitor the potential harmful effects of the medication - so what do I do about these potential, very real side-effects, etc? I ensure my diet includes foods that aid and support my liver function. That's taking responsibility for your own health. 22 years of liver function blood tests have revealed my liver is doing great.

If you want to focus on the things which potentially harm our bodies you need look no further than alcohol, sugar and processed foods. They do far more harm than any vaccines and many medications - a diet of these things fast tracks diabetes, heart disease, some cancers, some mental illnesses and so on.

Gee, that's stellar logic. ROFL. Were you pissed when you wrote  that? Putdowns never aid or strengthen your argument - ask yourself why you so need to do such things. In fact such putdowns only weaken your argument and succeed in divisiveness. This response and attitude will never strengthen or validate your opinion or supporting data.

By all means bury your brains 8 feet under and refuse to consider the' 'other' side.... again with the putdown... but what I do read into this sentence, and it is an assumption only, is someone wanting to be acknowledged for his contribution. Very reasonable. But whenever we do share any contribution pushback and questioning come with the territory... and it is often NOT personal, but you have an unfortunate tendency to get personal in response.

As Baggers so eloquently said (paraphrasing), do I really give a toss what you think? You used my comment to you totally out of context which is really quite manipulative. My comment to you was in relation to your expectations of me. To re-iterate, your expectations of me are of little to no interest to me.

As for your ad hominem allegation, BS. Not so. Sorry Cocko, but you do get personal. And you might want to acquaint yourself with the psychological fact/phenomenon of 'projection.'

I work with data professionally, I get data and I can interpret data. Okay, an important skill, but that does NOT assume nor is it evidentiary/proof that you are always right.

You lot ( a good few of you sadly) just opine without any supporting evidence....it's clear LP has long got way with his bully boy "I know more than you' mantra.....well, that's kindergarten stuff. I've never read anything from the Spotted One that stated he knew more than you... you simply interpreted his questioning of your data personally. Believe me, I know what it is like to be overly sensitive - again, an assumption only on my part (that you may be too sensitive to questioning).

I'll leave you with a few simple images.

Interpret them as you see fit.

ps Mav, I suggest you read up on what constitutes an ad hominem attack. Me saying a fact check site is carp is not an ad hominem attack on you. By definition. His ad hominem comment did not relate to your data or the interpretation thereof, it related to the manner in which you communicated your data.

And therefor they're safe?

Cole's hardly the only one raising big questions. Robert Malone, who essentially invented the mRNA technology, is another.

I work with data professionally, I get data and I can interpret data.

You lot ( a good few of you sadly) just opine without any supporting evidence....it's clear LP has long got way with his bully boy "I know more than you' mantra.....well, that's kindergarten stuff.

ps Mav, I suggest you read up on what constitutes an ad hominem attack. Me saying a fact check site is carp is not an ad hominem attack on you. By definition.

I’ve noticed you tend to project your faults on others. You regularly engage in ad hominem attacks but accuse others of using that tactic. And then you condemn taking “swipes at the man” but you do so immediately after declaring “Those fact check sites are drivel.” Hypocritical at best.

Former deputy chief medical officer Nick Coatsworth, one of the government’s top advisers in the early phase of the pandemic, said authorities underestimated the influence of commentators and academics who advocated an indefinite zero-COVID strategy and denigrated the AstraZeneca vaccine – and deliberately chose not to call them out publicly.

We always took the view in government, myself included, that this was a small group of people who didn’t have that much influence, and we would create more problems for ourselves if we started questioning academic freedom or asking people to stay in their swim lane,” Dr Coatsworth told The Sun-Herald and The Sunday Age.

“I actually think that was the wrong position to take. We should have been a lot firmer. We needed stronger voices out there. If I had my time again I think I would have been as forthright as I have in the last couple of weeks, [but] six months earlier.”

Dr Coatsworth, who is now executive director of medical services at Canberra Health Services, has recently used speeches, opinion pieces and social media to speak out against an indefinite “zero-COVID” approach and warn Australians must prepare for the virus to circulate as borders open.

He had suggested reopening at a vaccination rate of 50 per cent but called for the country to unite behind the 70 and 80 per cent targets modelled by the Doherty Institute and adopted by national cabinet.

Dr Coatsworth said he regretted underestimating the influence of zero-COVID advocates in the academy, whose commentary has shaped the discourse on COVID-19 management in Australia.

“There’s a very strong network in Australian academia that is pro COVID-zero,” he said. “There’s some very influential policy people, particularly down in Victoria, who have that particular view.

Extreme zero-COVID views look good, but they can have a fair few negative consequences that are difficult to count.”

Long-serving former Health Department secretary Jane Halton – who also sat on the government’s National COVID-19 Commission Advisory Board – did not agree with Dr Coatsworth about COVID-zero advocates but admitted the public health community had failed to counter misinformation about vaccines, especially AstraZeneca, and it was possibly too late to reverse the damage.

“I think nobody really understood how really problematic information that’s been circulating on social media – unchecked and unchallenged – has been for confidence in vaccines generally, and in AstraZeneca in particular,” Dr Halton told The Sun-Herald and The Sunday Age.

“We’ve all been out advocating vaccination. But I don’t think we’ve said enough about why people shouldn’t believe a lot of what they read. We shouldn’t assume that people understand all of these issues.”