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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6540 –
Quote from: capcom on
This is my experience of living in Australia.

I am white and have white privilege to minority groups, true dark skinned people, the LBGTQI community and females (i am male).

I am not truly one of the club like some of the others.

I get it Thry, but that's a personal perception is it not, rather than a mainstream view?




I suppose it is.

The big question is, is it correct?

Again, like all issues, its very difficult to paint one thing with the same brush.  In isolation, lots of the covid strategy makes no sense.  In combination with other factors, even the most ridiculous has a logical and lateral, risk aversion to it, even if the risk is quite small.

Its all very much to do with the experience not solely born of one persons life, but a systemic thing, and if ever you think to yourself, that he might be talking based on just an anecdotal view, have a think about how the white privilege gets bandied about by others.  Am I riding on coat tails?  Am I potentially correct?  Or, is it possible, that I have faced some descriminatory action that has led me to this particular junction?

The answer is a combination.  Not all people are racist.  Not all people are prejudiced.  Not all people face discrimination.  The ones that do, often stay quiet about it because unless you rise above it, you give it power over you and you give it the sort of power thats intended when people actually discriminate against you.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6541 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
We have let it rip.

MBB, old son. If only it were that simple. From one simple viewpoint... about 8% of Aussies aged over 12 are unvaccinated. These people are at increased risk of needing hospitalisation upon infection. Now if the hospitals continue to be inundated with Covid cases -- beyond their resources -- then other surgeries and medical needs are shunted down the queue, increasing the risk of serious illness, even death from other health care issues - including mental health. There are other factors as well.

Our healthcare system is deeply under resourced as it is, without Covid. Moderating the flow of Covid infected folks (especially unvaccinated) is the only humane solution available. As Wing Man MAV suggested, either/or / extreme thinking will create too many unnecessary problems.

Hopefully, our less than intelligent authorities will realise that our health care system needs strong improvement. The smarter Party will realise this and make it an election pillar.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6542 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
3 positives at work have had a booster. The vaccine doesn't stop you getting it or spreading it.
Vaccination does reduce transmissibility and most importantly, severity of symptoms.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6543 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Kind of.

Some of it dates back to Orthodox Christianity, Geo Politics, and a break away from the Ottoman empire.  Some of it is steeped in Byzantine empire, and is similar to the Uno Fazza Uno Razza with the Italians.  It all dates back to Roman times, and is quite irrelevant these days, but in the last couple of hundred years, the break up of the ottoman empire has contributed to that affinity.  There is even talk of Greeks having taught the Cyrillic alphabet to the people from that region, and when you look at Cyrillic and Greek there is a sharing of script there that looks familiar in some places (possibly like the skandinavians.

 

This is my experience of living in Australia.

I am white and have white privilege to minority groups, true dark skinned people, the LBGTQI community and females (i am male).

I am not truly one of the club like some of the others. 

I have been told to f%ck off back to where I came from as recently as 2017, from someone who is "more australian" and am leaving a place where people who have names with 2 syllables in them continually end up in leadership roles, whilst any more, and you get tokenism at best, with respect to leadership roles.

Not all people are guilty of the same crimes, but yet, when the boos were going for Adam Goodes, they did all end up racists didnt they?

Just applying the same argument.  If the shoe fits, you can wear it or not.  Your choice, but I find it interesting to see that people don't like being lumped into one group like this, but are happy to do it to others. 


I think I get where you're coming from, 3 Leos.

I would contend that most 'Anglo Aussies' are decent, every day folks.

Although I am 'very' Anglo (Scandinavian and English blood... along with Irish and Scottish) I was brought up in a home with a Landscape Architect/Gardener father who employed many different ethnic background folks (tradies/labourers). In fact my father would often comment that he leaned toward employing Greeks, Italians and Slavic folks, as, in his view, these people were harder and more reliable workers for his business. My parents never demonstrated racially prejudiced comments... perhaps the popular belief that prejudice is taught rather than inherent in our nature is in fact true.

I'm sorry you had to endure hurtful, racist slurs. Tells you of the ignorance of the persecutor rather than Aussies as a whole. There will likely always be folks who are unintelligent and abusive in respect to their views of anyone 'different.' I can assure you that to this day, I have to be careful who I share my PTSD stuff with... yep, some of the breathtakingly stupid comments I have heard are so wrong. Plenty of horribly judgemental barbs delivered by mental health issues ignorant people. However, this is powerfully counter balanced by the compassion and empathy from most Aussies. We're a young country... but already way ahead of many others (in terms of accepting difference) in regards to our fairness and willingness to 'give a go' to just about anyone.

As for Djokovic, I don't think his treatment has anything to do with ethnicity... he's a public figure and some will just hate on him because they don't like his attitude or hair cut! But if he is found to have manipulated the system, that 'fair go' of Aussies will evaporate pretty quickly.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6544 –
Quote from: Baggers on
Hopefully, our less than intelligent authorities will realise that our health care system needs strong improvement. The smarter Party will realise this and make it an election pillar.

Maybe @Baggers ... but that takes years to ramp up and a helluva lot more staff, all unpredictable 3 years back. 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6546 –
Quote from: Baggers on
MBB, old son. If only it were that simple. From one simple viewpoint... about 8% of Aussies aged over 12 are unvaccinated. These people are at increased risk of needing hospitalisation upon infection. Now if the hospitals continue to be inundated with Covid cases -- beyond their resources -- then other surgeries and medical needs are shunted down the queue, increasing the risk of serious illness, even death from other health care issues - including mental health. There are other factors as well.

Our healthcare system is deeply under resourced as it is, without Covid. Moderating the flow of Covid infected folks (especially unvaccinated) is the only humane solution available. As Wing Man MAV suggested, either/or / extreme thinking will create too many unnecessary problems.

Hopefully, our less than intelligent authorities will realise that our health care system needs strong improvement. The smarter Party will realise this and make it an election pillar.

I didn't say let it rip, I said they have let it rip.

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6547 –
Also whenever I say the vaccine doesn't stop you getting it there is no need to preach to me about deaths and hospitalisations. I have stated numerous times that I'm pro vaccine and that they save lives. Our own lives.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6548 –
Quote from: Baggers on
Vaccination does reduce transmissibility and most importantly, severity of symptoms.
This whole statement is 100% accurate!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6549 –
Where's your data? 
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6550 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
Where's your data?
The best data is coming out of Europe, in fact some of the European states that were previously skeptics are now lauding vaccination. Even the Danes who officially tried hard to be sceptical about vaccination could only find small percentage changes from the efficacy baselines for both Delta and Omicron. If the vaccines did not work against Omicron the percentage changes would have to be hundreds of percent, as you have to keep in mind the Danes are writing about percentage changes to a figure of about 10 - 15% percent.
Quote
Unvaccinated prospective secondary cases had similar attack rates in households with the Omicron and Delta VOCs at 29% and 28%, respectively. However, fully vaccinated individuals had SAR of 32% in households with the Omicron and 19% in households with the Delta VOC. Meanwhile, Omicron rendered a SAR of 25% in booster-vaccinated individuals, whereas Delta correlated to a SAR of only 11% in this cohort.

Seven days after the primary episode, which was considered a positive test result in this study, the cumulative chance of probable secondary cases rose from 33-41% to roughly 87-89%. The chances of secondary infection were higher in cases where the primary case, which was the first individual within a household to test positive, was with the Delta VOC rather than with the Omicron VOC.
So effectively, the same efficacy figures that apply to Delta effectively apply to Omicron.

Listening to the BBC overnight, the COVID report suggests new data coming out will confirm the vaccines efficacy for Omicron is still above 75%, that viral load of Omicron is reduce 1000x in vaccinated people who have had the booster, and that breakthrough infections are 2x more likely to come from an unvaccinated carrier than a vaccinated carrier. (Even though on average people are surrounded by 10x more vaccinated people than unvaccinated, you are still 2x more likely to be infected by the unvaccinated carrier, the risk is not just a function of head count it is also a function of viral load and mutation rates(Each variant VOC has hundreds or thousands of subtypes, the more viral load the more subtypes exist.)) This is interesting because if correct the UK study will confirms modelling studies conducted earlier by ATAGI, that vaccination still has high efficacy against severe disease, and that is exactly how the vast majority of vaccines work.
Quote
A mathematical modelling study has examined the relationship between neutralising antibody titres and vaccine effectiveness estimated in epidemiological studies. The investigators predicted that six months after primary immunisation with an mRNA vaccine, efficacy for Omicron is estimated to have waned to around 40% against symptomatic disease, and 80% against severe disease (36.7% [95% CI: 7.7-73], 70.9% [95% CI: 32.9-91.5] and 81.1% [95% CI: 42.1-96] for the AstraZeneca, Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, respectively). A booster dose with an mRNA vaccine has the potential to increase efficacy for Omicron to 86.2% (95% CI: 72.6-94%) against symptomatic infection and 98.2% (95% CI: 90.2-99.7%) against severe infection.
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6551 –
Omicron data is starting to pile out of research centres now, over the next 3 to 4 weeks you will be flooded with it!

It typically takes about 3 months for new COVID papers to be drafted, submitted and peer-reviewed.

We must not forget even this is a massive achievement, in days gone by you would replace the word months with years!
The Force Awakens!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6552 –
There is a point that I find difficult to understand.

Had we not vaccinated, would the pandemic look any different?

Its really difficult to quantify (and I don't think anyone really wants to find out because that cat is out of the bag once its out and there is no changing it). 

Thing is, we should see a disproportionate number of cases, and excess deaths in regions where vaccination rates are low.

I.e.  There is a region of India, called Utter Pradesh.  They have registered few cases, and I would wager, have been able to vaccinate fewer rather than more in a population of over 200 million people.  Their numbers dont look ridiculous, and Id wager their access to health care slim.

For data's sake.

Their population: 

Population as of 2021 according to this page: https://www.indiaonlinepages.com/population/uttar-pradesh-population.html

They have counted:  35.9 million cases, and 484k covid deaths.

They have vaccinated, 9.37b total doses, so have 3.92 billion fully vaccinated.  50% of their population.

You can spin these numbers how you like, and possibly support a variety of outcomes.  One thing I can state, is that they likely have population not counted, that similarly cant test positive, when you deal with such a logistical nightmare (look whats happening to our ability to count cases reliably in a city with 6 million people at a relatively small number of cases per day).

Irrespective of how you count this, should there not be a remarkably high number of excess deaths in those sorts of populations?  Vaccination rate is fairly low, so you would estimate the ability to protect in such a large population would be tricky, and their ability to distance, mask wear, do all the hand washing would be negligible too.

It's the sort of thing that never really rates a mention, and I understand why, its of no great comparison to us here in the western world, with big Australian backyards and not so much poverty. 



"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6553 –
Patient zero at my work came in last Tuesday sick as a dog and was blaming their sore throat on a big new years.
That night their adult daughter tested positive. She did a rapid test which confirmed she was positive. She was in contact with 5 co workers that day and all were positive by Saturday. Now almost everyone who were in contact with them are becoming positive. Everyone is vaccinated. One guy brought the virus home to his wife and 3 kids, all vaxxed and all are positive. By what measure is the vaccine stopping transmition?

 
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #6554 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
By what measure is the vaccine stopping transmition?
Efficacy is not just a measure of infection prevention, in fact historically most high efficacy vaccines do not stop infection, efficacy is a measure of how a vaccine prevents severe / acute disease as well as how they reduce the risk of infection and transmission.

For example you can have a high efficacy vaccine if it stops most or all severe disease but does not stop infection / transmission at all.

You won't find any credible scientific or health source that claims the Sars-CoV-2 vaccines stop infection, that line of debate only ever comes from the anti-vax movement or others spinning selective reports for political purposes.
The Force Awakens!