A leopard can’t change his spots but he might be able to change his shorts (Discworld reference for those who have no idea what I am on about), which can be useful if the shorts have pronounced skid marks from previous lack of endeavour.
Not sure if the players are finally getting it, becoming more courageous with maturity or just more scared of Malthouse but consider the following.
Yarran is super-talented but has continued to be soft and lazy. MM's coaching efforts have been evident since the body language saga. Against the Swans he came on and made a couple of committed efforts before going missing in the final term. Against the Pies he made a couple of committed efforts in the first term (when the team was going well) but clearly didn't like the discomfort of physical contact and went missing thereafter. Against the ‘aints, he was noticeable in the way he tried to deliver the ball to teammates rather than his usual selfish solo efforts. Against the 'roos, he tackled effectively (instead of his usual passive efforts) and showed courage in some marking contests.
Despite having improved his output enough to be a regular senior player this year, Lucas has still shown regular glimpses of timidity but, in recent weeks, he has been winning some contested ball and also tackling with greater intensity.
Watson is still a liability when the ball hits the ground and he still lacks the speed to go with most tall forwards and to get to other contests to provide Jamo with some aerial assistance but he is finally playing with some intensity and, credit where credit’s due, his contested mark on Friday night was as big as Yarran’s in deciding the game and as good as anything I have seen him d in 3 years.
Are you suggesting we have too many "softies" RR ??
Are you suggesting we have too many "softies" RR ??
Just suggesting that Mick is trying to address a few shortcomings and might be having some effect.
In the past 2 weeks, Lucas' game is significantly different in terms of doing the harder stuff IMO.
In the past 2 weeks, Lucas' game is significantly different in terms of doing the harder stuff IMO.
Agree on Lucas...probably getting less of the footy but is becoming a better player in contests both on the ground and in the air.
Yarran isnt soft IMO...just choosy when he does go.
Watson is also choosy when he decides to make an effort but I thought he gave us something vs the Kangas at different times mixed with his usual laconic manning up and lazy work ethic.
Are you suggesting we have too many "softies" RR ??
Just suggesting that Mick is trying to address a few shortcomings and might be having some effect.
I totally agree with this observation - I was at the game on Friday (I know I vowed not to go) and I think MM's influence is becoming noticeable in our approach and unwillingness to be intimidated physically - despite our fade-out in the game which I think showed up our lack of real fitness.
Yarran is super-talented but has continued to be soft and lazy. MM's coaching efforts have been evident since the body language saga. Against the Swans he came on and made a couple of committed efforts before going missing in the final term. Against the Pies he made a couple of committed efforts in the first term (when the team was going well) but clearly didn't like the discomfort of physical contact and went missing thereafter. Against the ‘aints, he was noticeable in the way he tried to deliver the ball to teammates rather than his usual selfish solo efforts. Against the 'roos, he tackled effectively (instead of his usual passive efforts) and showed courage in some marking contests.
See Yarran also produced efforts like these under Ratts IMO. Like Elwood said he would pick and choose too often. If Mick can get him doing it 100% of the time then I will take a bow.
Lucas couldn't even get a game under Ratts so there is clear improvement that can be attributed to MM. Lucas would more than likely not be at the club if Ratts had stayed.
In the past 2 weeks, Lucas' game is significantly different in terms of doing the harder stuff IMO.
Agree on Lucas...probably getting less of the footy but is becoming a better player in contests both on the ground and in the air.
Yarran isnt soft IMO...just choosy when he does go.
Watson is also choosy when he decides to make an effort but I thought he gave us something vs the Kangas at different times mixed with his usual laconic manning up and lazy work ethic.
Lucas has been criticized for his one on ones but for what I've seen he's won most of them that he's been involved in.
He actually clunked a mark or two Friday and his ability to run off from a player who's right on his hammer is fantastic, never get sick of that.
Well done to mick for getting something from a #12 pick which had looked to many as a waste.
I think there's a misconception about what MM wants from his players though. Yes he want them to do the tough stuff, but I reckon hes more concerned wity them working harder more often.
He's had plenty of less than physical players over the years, Didak, Leon Davis, Krakouer et al who've been known to go into self preservation mode when it suits. It hasn't meant he wouldn't pick them.
He has however given a few pretty good players "pine time" for not pulling their weight or playing to instruction Brad Hardie and Nick Davis probably the most famous , and they both left the club afterwards.
Lucas did some okay things the other night but he still isn't off my 'booted' list just yet.
The tackling of late is sub standard and soft - TBH I thought we were unusually assisted by the umpires Friday night
The tackling of late is sub standard and soft - TBH I thought we were unusually assisted by the umpires Friday night
Yes I thought we didn't make them stick on Friday night BUT it was better than previous efforts. Glad we won but we should have lost that.
The tackling of late is sub standard and soft - TBH I thought we were unusually assisted by the umpires Friday night
Yes I thought we didn't make them stick on Friday night BUT it was better than previous efforts. Glad we won but we should have lost that.
Agree, I thought our tackling in the 1st half was terrible. I didn't notice it as so bad in the 2nd half.
I agree our second half of footy against North had us tackle better and more often. Still think we have to improve far more in this area of our game if we are to be serious about finals footy. We are still seen as making up the numbers if we make the top 8. Still too many commentators rate us as ordinary and average.
I can see why, but I can also see where there will come a time they will all eat their words. Yarran and a few players really need to get more into the game early and get the one percenters done along with 2nd and 3rd efforts. Mick is watching every move and the axe could swing at the end of the season for some. I can see where we are better and it is definitely not having blow outs, and being in the game for a potential victory in almost every game. I can also see a small top up of the right mix of players making us a dangerous squad.
Mick has found a way of making our "B" and "C" grade players more accountable and value to the squad. This is good because it makes it difficult to get a game just based on past reputations. No more favourite players or special treatment. A few players have been a part of making their starting chances questionable. Maybe injury has had something to do with this, but we find it odd at times why players are selected for games. Players executing game instructions appear to be on Micks favoured list. Do the role your required and you will be a chance to play. This has not been the way things have always been for our club in the past.
was just looking at the footage of MM going nuts from the boundary at walker - looked like something from a Hitler parody
The tackling of late is sub standard and soft - TBH I thought we were unusually assisted by the umpires Friday night
Of late? Like you mean the last 10 years right?
was just looking at the footage of MM going nuts from the boundary at walker - looked like something from a Hitler parody
Malthouse is good that way..no favourites, AW has been great all year but obviously didnt follow orders probably for not picking up Thomas and copped a bake and its should be the same for Murphy, Judd, Gibbs or any player regardless of stature at the club or previous runs on the board.
was just looking at the footage of MM going nuts from the boundary at walker - looked like something from a Hitler parody
Malthouse is good that way..no favourites, AW has been great all year but obviously didnt follow orders probably for not picking up Thomas and copped a bake and its should be the same for Murphy, Judd, Gibbs or any player regardless of stature at the club or previous runs on the board.
And sometimes he might be making a point about the play in general and is just mking it with Walker because he's the one of the senior ones on the bench at the time.
was just looking at the footage of MM going nuts from the boundary at walker - looked like something from a Hitler parody
Malthouse is good that way..no favourites, AW has been great all year but obviously didnt follow orders probably for not picking up Thomas and copped a bake and its should be the same for Murphy, Judd, Gibbs or any player regardless of stature at the club or previous runs on the board.
And sometimes he might be making a point about the play in general and is just mking it with Walker because he's the one of the senior ones on the bench at the time.
Yeah, that's how I saw it Cimm.
In a way it doesn't really matter whether he was talking about the game or more directly about Walkers performance. Its more the passion and the fact that whatever it was Walks would've been left no doubt what MM was on about.
At least we haven't seen the finger pointing that he did during his last gig which doesn't come across well on TV. His go at Green was more in the who gives a flying anyway.
RR is right though, there is starting to be a discernable difference and Lucas seems to be the barometer, the perfect project player for MM to educate with lots of upside for everyone. Still , I enjoyed the way MM talked about Curnow after the game and it shows that MM isn't cherry picking and its a matter of pushing the right buttons for every player. It will be interesting to see who goes at the end of the season.
I like MM's philosophy "it's my way or the highway!" Any player who has a problem with what he wants to do and how he wants to do it will not be there sooner or later, and will be replaced with more willing people.
This is what we've needed for a long time - break up the cliques, break up the nests of favourites, clear out the white ants. Seen it many times over my career in the corporate world - leaders who don't do this fail.
Allen's must be lamenting the decline in sales of snakes, haven't seen MM chewing an them yet... Or maybe the Hawker's coaching staff is now enjoying them.
Allen's must be lamenting the decline in sales of snakes, haven't seen MM chewing an them yet... Or maybe the Hawker's coaching staff is now enjoying them.
Mick's got the Starbursts going on - everyone is a winner.
I like MM's philosophy "it's my way or the highway!" Any player who has a problem with what he wants to do and how he wants to do it will not be there sooner or later, and will be replaced with more willing people.
This is what we've needed for a long time - break up the cliques, break up the nests of favourites, clear out the white ants. Seen it many times over my career in the corporate world - leaders who don't do this fail.
The old, "Some will some won't, so what next". Exit those who won't and enter those who will, without any feeling of any guilt at all. Build a team to will themselves to win. This is life. This is our team goal. Simple and fact. ;)
A leopard can’t change his spots but he might be able to change his shorts (Discworld reference for those who have no idea what I am on about), which can be useful if the shorts have pronounced skid marks from previous lack of endeavour.
Not sure if the players are finally getting it, becoming more courageous with maturity or just more scared of Malthouse but consider the following first round draft picks who have not been great in the intensity stakes.
Yarran is super-talented but has continued to be soft and lazy. MM's coaching efforts have been evident since the body language saga. Against the Swans he came on and made a couple of committed efforts before going missing in the final term. Against the Pies he made a couple of committed efforts in the first term (when the team was going well) but clearly didn't like the discomfort of physical contact and went missing thereafter. Against the ‘aints, he was noticeable in the way he tried to deliver the ball to teammates rather than his usual selfish solo efforts. Against the 'roos, he tackled effectively (instead of his usual passive efforts) and showed courage in some marking contests.
Despite having improved his output enough to be a regular senior player this year, Lucas has still shown regular glimpses of timidity but, in recent weeks, he has been winning some contested ball and also tackling with greater intensity.
Watson is still a liability when the ball hits the ground and he still lacks the speed to go with most tall forwards and to get to other contests to provide Jamo with some aerial assistance but he is finally playing with some intensity and, credit where credit’s due, his contested mark on Friday night was as big as Yarran’s in deciding the game and as good as anything I have seen him do in 3 years.
Another solid effort from Yaz who now seems willing to chase with intensity rather than thinking about it and deciding against it.
Lucas was so 'out of it' one would be inclined to believe he was 'out of it' after the solid knock early in the game.
The glacier was again worthy of his place in the team but I don't think that much of his opponent (Sam Day). Credit to the coaches for playing him in a way that has been beneficial to the team by allowing Hendo to move forward.
A leopard can’t change his spots but he might be able to change his shorts (Discworld reference for those who have no idea what I am on about), which can be useful if the shorts have pronounced skid marks from previous lack of endeavour.
Not sure if the players are finally getting it, becoming more courageous with maturity or just more scared of Malthouse but consider the following first round draft picks who have not been great in the intensity stakes.
Yarran is super-talented but has continued to be soft and lazy. MM's coaching efforts have been evident since the body language saga. Against the Swans he came on and made a couple of committed efforts before going missing in the final term. Against the Pies he made a couple of committed efforts in the first term (when the team was going well) but clearly didn't like the discomfort of physical contact and went missing thereafter. Against the ‘aints, he was noticeable in the way he tried to deliver the ball to teammates rather than his usual selfish solo efforts. Against the 'roos, he tackled effectively (instead of his usual passive efforts) and showed courage in some marking contests.
Despite having improved his output enough to be a regular senior player this year, Lucas has still shown regular glimpses of timidity but, in recent weeks, he has been winning some contested ball and also tackling with greater intensity.
Watson is still a liability when the ball hits the ground and he still lacks the speed to go with most tall forwards and to get to other contests to provide Jamo with some aerial assistance but he is finally playing with some intensity and, credit where credit’s due, his contested mark on Friday night was as big as Yarran’s in deciding the game and as good as anything I have seen him do in 3 years.
Another solid effort from Yaz who now seems willing to chase with intensity rather than thinking about it and deciding against it.
Lucas was so 'out of it' one would be inclined to believe he was 'out of it' after the solid knock early in the game.
The glacier was again worthy of his place in the team but I don't think that much of his opponent (Sam Day). Credit to the coaches for playing him in a way that has been beneficial to the team by allowing Hendo to move forward.
Vs Dockers
One step forward several steps back for Yarran - p1ss weak effort to match that of "half a million" Eddie.
One move forward looked better than back for the Glacier - played within his considerable limitations because he can mark in his hands when the ball is well delivered and he is not being physically pressured and he can kick - good move by MM to play him as a forward because he looked more likely to make it as a forward than he has looked to make it as a defender in three seasons - might have earned himself another year on the list.
Lucas wasn't brilliant but he did put in an effort.
I'm not a huge fan but it's hard to fault Watson since he was promoted this season.
I'm not a huge fan but it's hard to fault Watson since he was promoted this season.
He might make a good forward. He would be worth developing. Just needs a rocket up his clacker to make him work with more intensity. Good pair of hands, and usually a decent kick too. Has body size and height. Don't waste this kid just yet and let him play the remaining games as a forward option. It wouldn't hurt and would at minimum give him confidence, and raise his future trade value.
I tend to argee with a lot of this thread RR.
This side has a lot of talent and when the game is played on their terms they play some sexy football.
Unfortunately the rest of the football community have worked out that if you dish it up to us we fold like a cheap suit.
I am not sure if it's physical weakness or mental but we don't seem to have "it" when the pressure is on.
I thought we played pretty good for 80% of the game on Saturday Night only to play like school kids for 5-8 minutes in the third when the Dockers kicked 5 of the easiest goals.
When you talk about defining moments we just don't have any. We lack character.
Most are critical of Murphy and he is in a terrible patch of form, but no one on our list shows any sort of leadership. Even Juddy is a "do as I do" leader.
Barassi used to live by the quote "If it is to be it is up to me"
At the moment it's all a little bit too hard for our boys.
@Shakin
Agree with that. It was emphasised again to me in the post match interview with Mathew Watson. OK he's only a kid still, but here we have another shy, softly spoken, passive sort of bloke who demonstrates little or no fire or passion. I just can't imagine him ever inspiring or rallying the troops in tough situations.
I tend to argee with a lot of this thread RR.
This side has a lot of talent and when the game is played on their terms they play some sexy football.
Unfortunately the rest of the football community have worked out that if you dish it up to us we fold like a cheap suit.
I am not sure if it's physical weakness or mental but we don't seem to have "it" when the pressure is on.
It is weakness - mental. The football world knows when you put the heat on Carlton we fold. Hawthorn showed them the way now Essendon do it as well. The Dockers did it on Saturday night.
When you talk about defining moments we just don't have any. We lack character.
And we have for some time. I said in earlier threads that we don't have real leaders and Judd is our only one currently. We don't develop leaders at Carlton - have a look at our off field leadership, it's not particularly strong either. Where is our spirit? Where is our fight? To often we fold when it get's tough. Anybody doubt Hawthorns resolve for next week after losing to Richmond? They will come out and make a statement and it won't be the coaches telling them they have to - they just do it.
Most are critical of Murphy and he is in a terrible patch of form, but no one on our list shows any sort of leadership. Even Juddy is a "do as I do" leader.
That's another problem. Judd is a lead by example leader and it's coming to the point with his body now that he cannot be expected to do this as much (and isn't able week in week and week out). When Judd speaks the room falls silent - when Murph speaks players listen but is he a natural leader? Is he a leader you follow because of his deeds? Opposition clubs target the captain anyway and when you're also the premier mid fielder it's doubly hard.
Barassi used to live by the quote "If it is to be it is up to me"
At the moment it's all a little bit too hard for our boys.
Some have the talent on our list but not enough of the stuff between the ears to make that next step up. I think our development at Carlton has been shocking largely and leadership is another area we lack and are paying for the sins of the past.
Reading those posts by Shakin' & SPF (both earned some karma from me too) talking about leadership and the like made me think of an old saying that we regularly use around our cricket club : "it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog".
The Port boys have a mantra "never give up" and it shows.
The Hawks a few years back were the unsocialable Hawks. It was a little over the top, but at least they stood for something.
At the moment we are the perfect dinner host. Come over to our place, has something to drink, something to eat, some soft goals, would you like to sleep with my wife? No problem. Glad you enjoyed your night.
When Judd speaks the room falls silent - when Murph speaks players listen but is he a natural leader? Is he a leader you follow because of his deeds?
He's neither but considering the amount of football Carrazzo has played I don't think it would've made any difference who was made captain. In hindsight it would've been much better for Judd to just do the extra stuff for another year until there was a more clear cut choice. Hendo is pretty appealing ATM.
At the moment it's all a little bit too hard for our boys.
Last year it was said the same attitude washed through the playing group once the injuries hit. Instead of showing some resolve, a lot of them simply threw up their hands saying "Woe is me, this is all too hard at the moment". Pathetic.
Mick - please massacre this list & it's collective mindset come year's end......
At the moment it's all a little bit too hard for our boys.
Last year it was said the same attitude washed through the playing group once the injuries hit. Instead of showing some resolve, a lot of them simply through up their hands saying "Woe is me, this is all too hard at the moment". Pathetic.
Mick - please massacre this list & it's collective mindset come year's end......
Tend to agree - it's the collective dominant predisposition of the group i.e. to drop the head and give in. We lack enough people with the forceful competitive personality that can drag the rest of the group along. Go to work recruiters!
Speaking of toughening up, I notice Matt Thomas is an unrestricted free agent... got the kind of hardness we need and no doubt would love being back home rather than stuck in 1985.
Speaking of toughening up, I notice Matt Thomas is an unrestricted free agent... got the kind of hardness we need and no doubt would love being back home rather than stuck in 1985.
He's just a plodder though Baggers, he's a Brock McLean type & nothing more. We need someone with more strings to their bow than a Matt Thomas.