Lucky to get as close as we did >:(
Wow Murphy pussed it bigtime in the last you could hear the crowd groan and then he was jeered the next time he got it.
We are a fkn disgrace.
@Shadesy
Do you know during the game I blurted out to my mate "Fkn Pagan he's killing this side" without even realising what I said!
The value of Warnock diminishes every time the lad takes the field. Some will get sucked in by the stats, even his coaches it seems. 48 hit outs, 6 kicks, 2 tackles.
But at 206cm it is the zero marks that hurts us, opposition teams do not even bother to stand him. At stoppages Minson rucked and roved while Warnock watched on. I am sick of seeing it, for someone his size he is pure poo, and anyone who defends him is a joke!
Minson got half the hit outs and was twice the player!
I love Rowe's effort but he is not up to it!
The value of Warnock diminishes every time the lad takes the field. Some will get sucked in by the stats, even his coaches it seems. 48 hit outs, 6 kicks, 2 tackles.
But at 206cm it is the zero marks that hurts us, opposition teams do not even bother to stand him. At stoppages Minson rucked and roved while Warnock watched on. I am sick of seeing it, for someone his size he is pure poo, and anyone who defends him is a joke!
Minson got half the hit outs and was twice the player!
I love Rowe's effort but he is not up to it!
Agree...Warnock is a dinasour and while Rowe gave effort today he had no imapact on the game at all and Casboult deserves a run.....I think hwile Rowe has another year to go he is destined for backup material only. Warnock needs trading out....I prefer Hampson who at least can take the odd mark and contest at ground level.
Agree...Warnock is a dinasour and while Rowe gave effort today he had no imapact on the game at all and Casboult deserves a run.....I think hwile Rowe has another year to go he is destined for backup material only. Warnock needs trading out....I prefer Hampson who at least can take the odd mark and contest at ground level.
As much as Kreuzer tries hard he lacks polish, but he is young and works as hard as anyone on the list.
Hampson makes mistakes, but at least he wins some physical stuff other than just some hit outs.
Casboult might not ruck well but he can clunk marks.
All three do stuff that influences the outcome of the game.
Trade out Rowe and Warnock, unfortunately for Rowe he gives us nothing the others don't already offer. Warnock is just a giant diversion from the realities of modern football.
Do you know during the game I blurted out to my mate "Fkn Pagan he's killing this side" without even realising what I said!
There are certainly some similarities emerging. Seems to be an air of "dispiritedness" (if that's a word).
Players lack confidence. Basic skills are shot. No noticeable game plan.
Lots to be worried about.
Warnock needs trading out....I prefer Hampson who at least can take the odd mark and contest at ground level.
They're both duds, until we face the facts with our list and stop pumping up spuds we are going nowhere.
Agree...Warnock is a dinasour and while Rowe gave effort today he had no imapact on the game at all and Casboult deserves a run.....I think hwile Rowe has another year to go he is destined for backup material only. Warnock needs trading out....I prefer Hampson who at least can take the odd mark and contest at ground level.
As much as Kreuzer tries hard he lacks polish, but he is young and works as hard as anyone on the list.
Hampson makes mistakes, but at least he wins some physical stuff other than just some hit outs.
Casboult might not ruck well but he can clunk marks.
All three do stuff that influences the outcome of the game.
Trade out Rowe and Warnock, unfortunately for Rowe he gives us nothing the others don't already offer. Warnock is just a giant diversion from the realities of modern football.
EB1/LP... that became crystal this arvo. Sad, but true. I watched Meat this arvo and he does and would offer more than Rowey and 206.
Too many players are actually a liability. Walker is one of them. How many silly mistakes is he making game after game. Stop letting him kick in. It isn't his best skill. Not happy with this game against the Doggies. I think they were way better all over the ground, and really should have won by far more than they did.
Warnock needs trading out....I prefer Hampson who at least can take the odd mark and contest at ground level.
They're both duds, until we face the facts with our list and stop pumping up spuds we are going nowhere.
You can't replace them all in one pre-season, and keeping the zero value players because they collect some stats is just brainless.
As much as Kreuzer tries hard he lacks polish, but he is young and works as hard as anyone on the list.
Hampson makes mistakes, but at least he wins some physical stuff other than just some hit outs.
Casboult might not ruck well but he can clunk marks.
All three do stuff that influences the outcome of the game.
Trade out Rowe and Warnock, unfortunately for Rowe he gives us nothing the others don't already offer. Warnock is just a giant diversion from the realities of modern football.
Kreuzer is a bloody good footballer playing in an average team, Warnock, Casboult, Rowe and Hampson are spuds who wouldn't get a game anywhere but Carlton.
Too many players are actually a liability. Walker is one of them. How many silly mistakes is he making game after game. Stop letting him kick in. It isn't his best skill. Not happy with this game against the Doggies. I think they were way better all over the ground, and really should have won by far more than they did.
Easily fixed, swap Yarran for Walker, it used to work well that way.
They're both duds, until we face the facts with our list and stop pumping up spuds we are going nowhere.
Can't argue with that at all, nice to see some reality too.
EB1/LP... that became crystal this arvo. Sad, but true. I watched Meat this arvo and he does and would offer more than Rowey and 206.
Baggers, 15 years ago 206 would have been a superstar, if he could influence the game like Sandilands he still would be. But having a bloke get twice the critical stats of an opponent yet be clearly beaten is a massive tell. If Kreuzer, Hampson or Casboult had 48 taps our midfield would have smashed the Bulldogs.
MICK FRAUDHOUSE.
Kreuzer is a bloody good footballer playing in an average team, Warnock, Casboult, Rowe and Hampson are spuds who wouldn't get a game anywhere but Carlton.
Unfortunately for us, that is quite true although if the media are to be believed, Hampson does attract some interest from the others clubs.
Kreuzer is a bloody good footballer playing in an average team, Warnock, Casboult, Rowe and Hampson are spuds who wouldn't get a game anywhere but Carlton.
Unfortunately for us, that is quite true although if the media are to be believed, Hampson does attract some interest from the others clubs.
That is because as a ruck Hampson is good enough.
Look at our list, we have;
- Walker playing backline after being borderline AA as a forward.
- Yarran playing nowhere anybody knows.
- Hendo playing forward after being in A Grade form as a defender.
- Simpson a first class wing is playing in defense.
- McLean a grunt midfielder playing on a wing.
We take players who are good enough at AFL level and try to turn them into something they are not. If Cooney had been at Carlton we would have him as a KPD by now!
With Port's loss we had everything to play for.
It was the insipid nature of the capitulation that is most disturbing.
We were weighed measured and found wanting...."big time".
It's not like these guys don't have the ability.
What they lack is the desire...yet the same playing group have displayed that desire in the past.
What is wrong?
With Port's loss we had everything to play for.
It was the insipid nature of the capitulation that is most disturbing.
We were weighed measured and found wanting...."big time".
It's not like these guys don't have the ability.
What they lack is the desire...yet the same playing group have displayed that desire in the past.
What is wrong?
Supporters have not given up on the season, the players have!
There is also something rotten in Denmark, anyone who has played football for any length of time can see it in the on field efforts. It stands out like a sore thumb, and has nothing to do with the coach.
Cohesion is zero, sacrifice is zero, support is zero and care is zero.
The players do not care, like or respect each other, they are a bunch of individuals. There is no team bonding!
Kreuzer is a bloody good footballer playing in an average team, Warnock, Casboult, Rowe and Hampson are spuds who wouldn't get a game anywhere but Carlton.
Unfortunately for us, that is quite true although if the media are to be believed, Hampson does attract some interest from the others clubs.
The media eh?
Hampson has been at the club for just shy of 7 years, dwell on that for a moment.
With Port's loss we had everything to play for.
It was the insipid nature of the capitulation that is most disturbing.
We were weighed measured and found wanting...."big time".
It's not like these guys don't have the ability.
What they lack is the desire...yet the same playing group have displayed that desire in the past.
What is wrong?
Answers to these questions would turn our form around instantly. Heart, desire, and desperation wins games against any side. What we have happening is almost borderline tanking. Are we after picks again ? The picks we have had in the past are bringing us nothing on the field. Time to put the cue in the rack and play young kids only. There is no point hurting are core senior players like Judd today.
Time to put the cue in the rack and play young kids only. There is no point hurting are core senior players like Judd today.
I agree 100%, tank time and don't spare the band aids.
A discount for bulk surgery I hope!
Time to put the cue in the rack and play young kids only. There is no point hurting are core senior players like Judd today.
I agree 100%, tank time and don't spare the band aids.
A discount for bulk surgery I hope!
Lots of discounts available in Malaysia and the near by region. We are kidding ourselves if we expect that mathematically we can make the 8. It means winning every game before seasons end. I ignore the Bombers issue at the moment.
Is it true that our fans booed Murphy & Waite to such an extent that Waite flipped them the bird ??
EB1/LP... that became crystal this arvo. Sad, but true. I watched Meat this arvo and he does and would offer more than Rowey and 206.
Baggers, 15 years ago 206 would have been a superstar, if he could influence the game like Sandilands he still would be. But having a bloke get twice the critical stats of an opponent yet be clearly beaten is a massive tell. If Kreuzer, Hampson or Casboult had 48 taps our midfield would have smashed the Bulldogs.
Makes you wonder how J. Madden would have done in today's game!!
Time to put the cue in the rack and play young kids only. There is no point hurting are core senior players like Judd today.
I agree 100%, tank time and don't spare the band aids.
A discount for bulk surgery I hope!
Lots of discounts available in Malaysia and the near by region. We are kidding ourselves if we expect that mathematically we can make the 8. It means winning every game before seasons end. I ignore the Bombers issue at the moment.
Lucky if we even get close to a win in the next three rounds, forget finals we would be just making up numbers
What's funny is when MM would give non-answers at pressers and be vague I thought it was because he was being a cagey old fox.
But guess what? I don't reckon he has a clue.
Better hope for some killer assistants because I don't reckon MM knows what day it is.
Time to put the cue in the rack and play young kids only. There is no point hurting are core senior players like Judd today.
I agree 100%, tank time and don't spare the band aids.
A discount for bulk surgery I hope!
I said tank in the pregame thread!
listened to the game on radio. the weeding done in the garden was my highlight. . .
Has anyone else noticed that we start seasons well. Our first half is better than our second half. What is that all about?
I'm not sure what the MC expects when Curnow, Cachia, Mclean, Bootsma and Rowe run out of the race -they're all fairly ordinary really. Then you add Walker, Gibbs and Simpson in defence and you make it so easy for opposition sides to clamp down on Judd and Murphy and you're basically shot before you even start playing the game. Surprisingly disorganised for a coach of Malthouse's standing.
As I have been saying every week, Casboult must play FF, Henderson, Waite, Jamison, McInnes etc for the other key positions and for god's sake put Yarran on the wing and bring Graham in if he's fit.
Let's all go over to the Essendon thread....This one is depressing ;)
And another thing, Jamison looks shot. Needs two of Watson, Mcinnes and Henderson to support.
Just got home from the game - should have not bothered going - aaaaaagggghhhh!
How can we get close when we have two witches hat in 206 and Rowe?
Has anyone else noticed that we start seasons well. Our first half is better than our second half. What is that all about?
Looks like the last two coaches lose the players as soon as it gets tough.
I'm not sure what the MC expects when Curnow, Cachia, Mclean, Bootsma and Rowe run out of the race -they're all fairly ordinary really. Then you add Walker, Gibbs and Simpson in defence and you make it so easy for opposition sides to clamp down on Judd and Murphy and you're basically shot before you even start playing the game. Surprisingly disorganised for a coach of Malthouse's standing.
As I have been saying every week, Casboult must play FF, Henderson, Waite, Jamison, McInnes etc for the other key positions and for god's sake put Yarran on the wing and bring Graham in if he's fit.
Bootsma fairly ordinary? C'mon mate have a good look - he's only just started, gonna be a long term Carlton footballer that one.
Casbout needs to be traded, can't kick!
Waitey is not KP FFS, I don't believe Macca is really either...!
Yarran, agree on the wing!
I'm not sure what the MC expects when Curnow, Cachia, Mclean, Bootsma and Rowe run out of the race -they're all fairly ordinary really. Then you add Walker, Gibbs and Simpson in defence and you make it so easy for opposition sides to clamp down on Judd and Murphy and you're basically shot before you even start playing the game. Surprisingly disorganised for a coach of Malthouse's standing.
As I have been saying every week, Casboult must play FF, Henderson, Waite, Jamison, McInnes etc for the other key positions and for god's sake put Yarran on the wing and bring Graham in if he's fit.
Bootsma fairly ordinary? C'mon mate have a good look - he's only just started, gonna be a long term Carlton footballer that one.
Casbout needs to be traded, can't kick!
Waitey is not KP FFS, I don't believe Macca is really either...!
Yarran, agree on the wing!
Settle there Knackers. Meat is back to kicking like a beaut.
I’m sick of this st1t
At the start of the year 80% of the experts had us in the top eight, some had us top four, Carlton’s own board thought this was a finals team, MM’s own words were “This is a Grand final team” This is the same list, WTF happened, now we’re talking about a rebuild. MM wasn’t brought in to rebuild. He was supposed to take us to the finals. There has been heaps of criticism of the players but I place the blame on MM. It’s funny how after every loss last year it was Rattens fault, (Where is his plan B, he shouldn’t be sitting on the bench, etc) now after a loss its Judd, Murphy, Gibbs and Yarran fault.
It’s just a pay check for MM, just like it was for Pagan (And we all know how that turned out) he can take his 5 million and live in comfort. It’s not about money for me, in fact it cost me tens of thousands over 35 years. Is MM feeling as sick as I am right now? I doubt it. Take your stupid 5 year old game plan and FOOK OFF
Do you know during the game I blurted out to my mate "Fkn Pagan he's killing this side" without even realising what I said!
Spot on PI2C....our current plight has all the makings of another Pagan era. I mentioned as much very early on in the piece, but now it's becoming more evident than ever: the Malthouse gameplan of yesteryear is no longer relevant, especially to this group of players in any way, shape or form. Tinkering this 'pet plan' will not solve anything, a total tear-down is required & Mick needs to seriously start thinking outside the box for the first time in many, many years.
We were never gonna win this game with one fit player on the bench for the last quarter, so let's get that straight. However, we were barely hanging in there beforehand in any case.
We have become a poor, poor, football team in most facets. For mine, Juddy was (yet again) streets ahead of our next best player......probably McLean. Now Juddy is gone for the year.....oh the joy......won't even come close to winning another game this year.
What a complete & utter mess......
And another thing, Jamison looks shot. Needs two of Watson, Mcinnes and Henderson to support.
We Agree...its time to recruit another younger fullback who can kick the ball better...Jamo continues to butcher the ball and for a senior player I am dissapointed in his leadership....
Watson continues to improve and its makes a mockery out of reserves form....some players never show anything until given senior opportunities.
Has anyone else noticed that we start seasons well. Our first half is better than our second half. What is that all about?
Looks like the last two coaches lose the players as soon as it gets tough.
Says a lot more about the players than the coaches!
As pathetic as that was it was as a predictable loss as I can remember.
I can't believe the confidence of a side such as the Bulldogs to simply take our guys on. They had zero fear of being caught.
We were lucky they were poor converting becuase that felt like a 10 goal loss - absolutely nothing from the players against a bottom 4 side.
We're quickly heading into the wilderness.
Yep - said Jamo was done just 2 weeks ago & geez, he was defended admirably by some for reasons I still don't know. Just another cog in this broken wheel of ours.
Notice Curnow was listed in our best.....he had a crack, I'll give him that, but his direct opponent was Cooney = FAIL. Cachia's direct opponent was Griffen = FAIL. Tuohy's direct opponent for a lot of the day was Grant = FAIL. Warnock = FAIL. Walker = FAIL. Murphy = FAIL. Gibbs = FAIL. Armfield = FAIL. Henderson = FAIL (although the kicking to our forwards was abysmal....again). Waite = FAIL. Garlett = FAIL. Betts = FAIL. Menzel = FAIL. Simmo = FAIL. Rowe = FAIL. Yarran butchers the ball by foot = FAIL.
Bootsma gets spared as his spoiling was exceptional, as was his field kicking, although one horrific missed tackle nearly earned him a FAIL. Juddy, McLean & Scotland = Pass.
I'm not sure what the MC expects when Curnow, Cachia, Mclean, Bootsma and Rowe run out of the race -they're all fairly ordinary really. Then you add Walker, Gibbs and Simpson in defence and you make it so easy for opposition sides to clamp down on Judd and Murphy and you're basically shot before you even start playing the game. Surprisingly disorganised for a coach of Malthouse's standing.
As I have been saying every week, Casboult must play FF, Henderson, Waite, Jamison, McInnes etc for the other key positions and for god's sake put Yarran on the wing and bring Graham in if he's fit.
Bootsma fairly ordinary? C'mon mate have a good look - he's only just started, gonna be a long term Carlton footballer that one.
Casbout needs to be traded, can't kick!
Waitey is not KP FFS, I don't believe Macca is really either...!
Yarran, agree on the wing!
Settle there Knackers. Meat is back to kicking like a beaut.
Casbout is the sort of crap we need to get rid of.
The game has evolved, we need footballers, not athletes, or some one big who can mark, can run, or can kick but can be turned in to a complete footballer to win a flag...those days are gone!
Have a look at the top sides, classy footballers, which we have a number of good ones but too many of these vfl types...
This is what I would hang on to at years end and the rest can be replaced if we are going to be serious about moving forward....
Numbers 1 to 8, 12, 13, 19, 21, 23, 25, 26, 27, 28, 37, 38, 40, 42, 44
Yep - said Jamo was done just 2 weeks ago & geez, he was defended admirably by some for reasons I still don't know. Just another cog in this broken wheel of ours.
Notice Curnow was listed in our best.....he had a crack, I'll give him that, but his direct opponent was Cooney = FAIL. Cachia's direct opponent was Griffen = FAIL. Tuohy's direct opponent for a lot of the day was Grant = FAIL. Warnock = FAIL. Walker = FAIL. Murphy = FAIL. Gibbs = FAIL. Armfield = FAIL. Henderson = FAIL (although the kicking to our forwards was abysmal....again). Waite = FAIL. Garlett = FAIL. Betts = FAIL. Menzel = FAIL. Simmo = FAIL. Rowe = FAIL. Yarran butchers the ball by foot = FAIL.
Bootsma gets spared as his spoiling was exceptional, as was his field kicking, although one horrific missed tackle nearly earned him a FAIL. Juddy, McLean & Scotland = Pass.
Brettie....Bootsma had Grant didnt he and got spanked..then went to Jones and had another goal kicked on him but he did do better after half time and the kid his best.
But seriously we got beat by the likes of Jarryd Garnt, Will Young, Tory Dickson, Jason Tutt. ???...Grant hasnt played a decent 4 quarter game in his life, just shows how much commitment our blokes had tonight..... er I forgot...Mark Austen ...yep that superstar...thats how bad we are going, well beat by nondescripts and our own ex duds....
Dont stop at 10 players cut Mick ...go for 12-15....get some who care and have some pride.
@EB1
Bootsma is a kid learning to be an AFL defender in a defence that is under constant seige - let down by a crumbling and feeble midfield that was being smashed by the opposition. He did OK under the circumstances, especially after Watson was injured - showed some promise with the torp as well.
Missed Kreuzer big time today.
3 torps from the Boots tonight. 2 came back for goals (one of which made it to half forward but we were still out of position) and the third went deep into the forward pocket and a doggie's stuff up was the only thing which prevented a perfect three from three.
Boots is particularly bad because it is very obvious well before he kicks it that the torp is coming.
Mighty Mick is turning into Marshmallow Mick. Perhaps the Pies got it right - they knew his coaching days were over. I'm quite deflated after this. I thought Malthouse could take our list to the next level. It looks like the next level below.
Mazza!
>:(
Mighty Mick is turning into Marshmallow Mick. Perhaps the Pies got it right - they knew his coaching days were over. I'm quite deflated after this. I thought Malthouse could take our list to the next level. It looks like the next level below.
Mazza!
>:(
How are the Bummers going these days LL?
Yep - said Jamo was done just 2 weeks ago & geez, he was defended admirably by some for reasons I still don't know. Just another cog in this broken wheel of ours.
Notice Curnow was listed in our best.....he had a crack, I'll give him that, but his direct opponent was Cooney = FAIL. Cachia's direct opponent was Griffen = FAIL. Tuohy's direct opponent for a lot of the day was Grant = FAIL. Warnock = FAIL. Walker = FAIL. Murphy = FAIL. Gibbs = FAIL. Armfield = FAIL. Henderson = FAIL (although the kicking to our forwards was abysmal....again). Waite = FAIL. Garlett = FAIL. Betts = FAIL. Menzel = FAIL. Simmo = FAIL. Rowe = FAIL. Yarran butchers the ball by foot = FAIL.
Bootsma gets spared as his spoiling was exceptional, as was his field kicking, although one horrific missed tackle nearly earned him a FAIL. Juddy, McLean & Scotland = Pass.
Brettie....Bootsma had Grant didnt he and got spanked..then went to Jones and had another goal kicked on him but he did do better after half time and the kid his best.
But seriously we got beat by the likes of Jarryd Garnt, Will Young, Tory Dickson, Jason Tutt. ???...Grant hasnt played a decent 4 quarter game in his life, just shows how much commitment our blokes had tonight..... er I forgot...Mark Austen ...yep that superstar...thats how bad we are going, well beat by nondescripts and our own ex duds....
Dont stop at 10 players cut Mick ...go for 12-15....get some who care and have some pride.
Gibbs started on Grant EB1, Bootsma was on him for maybe a few mins, but that was about it.......Grant had a revolving door of Carlton players on him throughout the game. Bootsma spent most of the game on Jones & did a fairly good job.
There are a few things that will make my head explode if I read that we are not doing in terms of game preparation for next season. Things we avoided to keep injuries to a minimum will not cut it. We need to work on all the basics across the board with all players.
Strength work in and out of the gym. To improve the physical strength of every player in the club. We lack body strength and physical presence. Body contests with marking and shrugging a tackle.
Stamina and endurance work. To have the ability to run games out, and chase your opponent moving forward in attack, and running back to flood back to the defensive 50m. We lack real endurance. Learn how to run and run all day. Hard from the first bounce to the final siren.
Tackling. Making all tackles stick and spilling the ball. No more one handed tackles. Real tough and man type tackles to hurt the opponent. Something we are soft with.
Contested marking. Giving every player a chance to take contested marks. Something we really lack.
Kicking to targets. Kicking to players leading in the forward 50m. Hitting targets around the ground. Kicking between the big sticks. Not between one big and one small stick.
Long handballs to targets. Hitting moving targets as Diesel Williams could. he could handball 30m to a moving target, better than our players can by foot.
Ruck tap work with midfield players. Drilling an ability to win clearances. How to communicate special tactics. Hinting a block for a free running mid to a clearance.
Along with spoiling bigger players the above are an absolute must before we even consider our game plan. A lack of ability on the above mean we will not get closer to a final no matter who we get into the club. This and how to do the 2nd and 3rd efforts along with the one percenters. Tapping the ball forward, kicking it along the ground and getting the ball on the half volley. Basic little league children type skills they learn at under 12's footy. Basic footy ethics is important, but our bodies need to be conditioned to be ready for a game of footy before the season starts. If there is not a work ethic in training, there can't be a work ethic in a match or game day. learn to work hard, and enjoy the rewards the work brings. I'm sure it is hard, but worth the results. No more soft boy preperation. Work like men and play like animals.
Mighty Mick is turning into Marshmallow Mick. Perhaps the Pies got it right - they knew his coaching days were over. I'm quite deflated after this. I thought Malthouse could take our list to the next level. It looks like the next level below.
Mazza!
>:(
How are the Bummers going these days LL?
I think they're still in the 8. Why do you ask?
Mighty Mick is turning into Marshmallow Mick. Perhaps the Pies got it right - they knew his coaching days were over. I'm quite deflated after this. I thought Malthouse could take our list to the next level. It looks like the next level below.
Mazza!
>:(
How are the Bummers going these days LL?
I think they're still in the 8. Why do you ask?
Ah! They've got their own very special way of achieving that haven't they?
Tackling. Making all tackles stick and spilling the ball. No more one handed tackles. Real tough and man type tackles to hurt the opponent. Something we are soft with.
Tackling and physical contact was outlawed in training during the preseason wasn't it?
Is it true that our fans booed Murphy & Waite to such an extent that Waite flipped them the bird ??
Murph, Waite, and Hendo all received bronx cheers late in the game. I suspect Hendo's (after taking the mark) was more a result of the ball actually being delivered to him in an acceptable manner. Didn't see Waite flip our supporters the bird. If he did it could have been to anyone - he's an angry, angry young man.
Watched Murphy closely today given he's been copping it from all and sundry. What struck me most was his total lack of awareness and confidence when he's required to run the other way. No idea where to position himself and is usually caught betwixt and between - half heartedly running towards the opposition player with the ball but then seemingly changing his mind and peeling off to try and cover someone else downfield. He's outta sorts big time.
Tackling. Making all tackles stick and spilling the ball. No more one handed tackles. Real tough and man type tackles to hurt the opponent. Something we are soft with.
Tackling and physical contact was outlawed in training during the preseason wasn't it?
It was and without saying anything against the coach, it is completely f@cking stoopid. We are in my opinion one of the bottom 4 sides for tackle ability as a whole side. Seriously watch how other sides make their tackles stick. We use one handed tackles or we tackle leaving the arms free to give off a handball. Why are we no doing this in training. Don't try selling an avoid injury thing. Tackle foam dummies for all I care to avoid hurting teammates. Don't outlaw the most important acting of a footballer. Not having a go at you by the way, just need to hear we are preparing to win games. Not doing ballet, yoga, and meditation only.
Post match presser.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2013-08-10/cfc-tv-malthouse-post-match-r20
Wow doesn't wait long too put the blame on the players.
He mentioned the 'rebuild' word again.
Makes you wonder how J. Madden would have done in today's game!!
Madden would do OK, he would be far closer to Sandilands than is Warnock.
Madden could take marks forward and back. Tackle and hurt opponents physically, and with his goal kicking. His tap work compared to Warnock was sublime!
I even saw Madden run and bounce once! :D
Yep - said Jamo was done just 2 weeks ago & geez, he was defended admirably by some for reasons I still don't know. Just another cog in this broken wheel of ours.
Notice Curnow was listed in our best.....he had a crack, I'll give him that, but his direct opponent was Cooney = FAIL. Cachia's direct opponent was Griffen = FAIL. Tuohy's direct opponent for a lot of the day was Grant = FAIL. Warnock = FAIL. Walker = FAIL. Murphy = FAIL. Gibbs = FAIL. Armfield = FAIL. Henderson = FAIL (although the kicking to our forwards was abysmal....again). Waite = FAIL. Garlett = FAIL. Betts = FAIL. Menzel = FAIL. Simmo = FAIL. Rowe = FAIL. Yarran butchers the ball by foot = FAIL.
Bootsma gets spared as his spoiling was exceptional, as was his field kicking, although one horrific missed tackle nearly earned him a FAIL. Juddy, McLean & Scotland = Pass.
Brettie....Bootsma had Grant didnt he and got spanked..then went to Jones and had another goal kicked on him but he did do better after half time and the kid his best.
But seriously we got beat by the likes of Jarryd Garnt, Will Young, Tory Dickson, Jason Tutt. ???...Grant hasnt played a decent 4 quarter game in his life, just shows how much commitment our blokes had tonight..... er I forgot...Mark Austen ...yep that superstar...thats how bad we are going, well beat by nondescripts and our own ex duds....
Dont stop at 10 players cut Mick ...go for 12-15....get some who care and have some pride.
Gibbs started on Grant EB1, Bootsma was on him for maybe a few mins, but that was about it.......Grant had a revolving door of Carlton players on him throughout the game. Bootsma spent most of the game on Jones & did a fairly good job.
Brettie...My apologies then to Bootmsa if he had Jones for most of the game becuase he would have been one of our few winners in thats case.....and the blowtorch needs to be applied to Gibbs if had Grant intially...both his defending and disposal was very ordinary IMO and I remain dissapointed in Gibbs ability to get to the next level.
Perhaps it is harsh for MM to be pointing a finger, but having said that Ratten had the players back and what good did that do him or the club?
Something has to change, and I do not think it is necessarily in the coaching or administration staff. I mentioned in another thread, there appears to be a clique that exists between certain Carlton players. To me that means a lack of unity!
Mighty Mick is turning into Marshmallow Mick. Perhaps the Pies got it right - they knew his coaching days were over. I'm quite deflated after this. I thought Malthouse could take our list to the next level. It looks like the next level below.
Mazza!
>:(
How are the Bummers going these days LL?
I think they're still in the 8. Why do you ask?
Ah! They've got their own very special way of achieving that haven't they?
Couldn't give a flick. More worried about our ensemble and how dishevelled they are.
Well, that sucked.
Is it true that our fans booed Murphy & Waite to such an extent that Waite flipped them the bird ??
Murph, Waite, and Hendo all received bronx cheers late in the game. I suspect Hendo's (after taking the mark) was more a result of the ball actually being delivered to him in an acceptable manner. Didn't see Waite flip our supporters the bird. If he did it could have been to anyone - he's an angry, angry young man.
Watched Murphy closely today given he's been copping it from all and sundry. What struck me most was his total lack of awareness and confidence when he's required to run the other way. No idea where to position himself and is usually caught betwixt and between - half heartedly running towards the opposition player with the ball but then seemingly changing his mind and peeling off to try and cover someone else downfield. He's outta sorts big time.
I saw Waitey flip the bird but he was on the opposite side of the ground and I have no idea which supporters it was aimed at.
As far as being an angry young man - he's not that young anymore but the way he was running at players late in the game I thought another holiday was on the cards - the only thing that saved him was he couldn't catch anything today.
screwing glad I put money on the dogs
Never sure it was about coaching so much but the attitude and workrate of the players. Other than the odd moment of the last 11 years it been an ingrained problem since 2002. With the players we do have we should do alot better. This is what MM has inherited and that's sometimes harder to fix than a lack of talent. He did it once at the Pies, hopefully he can do it again. Ratts coached well enough but that workrate and attitude problem reared itself last year again.
Now it's MM's turn to see if he can sort it. When he makes list changes he can look at the players who's attitude and workrate is poor as much as those who he's thinks aren't going to cut it. No good had talent if you're adverse to the idea of gut running and doing the basics, Parko did this in his first year back in 1991. We lost the last 8 of the year that year so he cleaned the list out of not only those who weren't going to cut it but those who wouldn't work hard enough either. In the end he got the type of team he wanted and eventually won a flag.
Last night the Doggies culture beat our culture. Their discipline beat our limp discipline. Their blokes knew what to do ...our blokes were confused and afraid. And that confuses me. A coach who understands war should be able to instil courage into his troops. But no, our blokes are hesitant, afraid and non instinctual.
Last night the Doggies culture beat our culture. Their discipline beat our limp discipline. Their blokes knew what to do ...our blokes were confused and afraid. And that confuses me. A coach who understands war should be able to instil courage into his troops. But no, our blokes are hesitant, afraid and non instinctual.
So nothing to do with the coach, the plan or the MC.?
Maybe we should have a good look at how the game is played in general. Take in how the rules effect the type of players we put on the park compared with the better teams.
The game I feel has changed even since 2011. The Freo game highlighted this. Brute strength is a necessity. The rules now suit a bigger bodied player. Correct disposal of the ball when tackled seems to no longer exist. I didn't know there was a rule change as I was of the belief that a player when tackled must dispose of the ball either by handball or a kick. With less frees awarded and the pursuit of letting the game flow this rule has just about disappeared.
Bomber Thompson stated when he arrived at bummerland that they needed to get bigger, and we all know how they went about it, but they did alter their structure game day this year with less smalls. They no longer have Monfreis, lonegan reimers Davey, Jedda, Melsham Windelich Dempsey Stanton, Zacofwhatever playing together at any given time, not that they all ever did. but their ratio of similar types has altered.
We have a lot of smalls and with the game and rules as they are, it is little wonder we don't run out games or play consistently for four quarters. We just physically cannot and the rules or should I say lack of won't allow it especially against better teams.
I have noticed our players struggle to retard the opposition, especially in close whereas our boys when tackled are easily retarded.
There will always be a need for nifty clever smalls but I wonder if our balance of talls, smalls and bigger bodied players is outer kilter with the better teams and should we recruit and field teams accordingly.
Watched Murphy closely today given he's been copping it from all and sundry. What struck me most was his total lack of awareness and confidence when he's required to run the other way. No idea where to position himself and is usually caught betwixt and between - half heartedly running towards the opposition player with the ball but then seemingly changing his mind and peeling off to try and cover someone else downfield. He's outta sorts big time.
What I saw today was the whole team having no idea. They all seem totally confused with what is expected and what they are meant to do. They look down the line and its totally manned, inboard is free but must be under instruction to hit the line, because we always kick to the wrong option. There is a lot of uncertainty in the game plan and in the players future (rightly or wrongly), and this is the result. Personally I see a team showing signs that they have no confidence in the game plan which was meant to be "proven" and "tested". It was 3 years ago.
Never sure it was about coaching so much but the attitude and workrate of the players. Other than the odd moment of the last 11 years it been an ingrained problem since 2002. With the players we do have we should do alot better. This is what MM has inherited and that's sometimes harder to fix than a lack of talent. He did it once at the Pies, hopefully he can do it again. Ratts coached well enough but that workrate and attitude problem reared itself last year again.
Now it's MM's turn to see if he can sort it. When he makes list changes he can look at the players who's attitude and workrate is poor as much as those who he's thinks aren't going to cut it. No good had talent if you're adverse to the idea of gut running and doing the basics, Parko did this in his first year back in 1991. We lost the last 8 of the year that year so he cleaned the list out of not only those who weren't going to cut it but those who wouldn't work hard enough either. In the end he got the type of team he wanted and eventually won a flag.
Great post Laj.
The only thing I can add is that the development and/or recruiting has not been up to scratch. There seems to be a significant gap between our best 15 or so players onwards. In a newspaper report David King (I think) pointed out that our lack of talent from players under 23 is staggering.
I am finally in Sheik's corner and believe we need to make some hard calls. The problem is will we be able to recruit players better than the ones we have and how long will it take to rebuild? The other thing is do we need to change our recruiting and development departments? Based on what I have seen, it needs a serious review (again).
Carlton now, have to forget about short term gain and once again build a team for the future. >:(
Forget about attacking MM, we are now stuck with him for a while and he deserves the chance to rebuild this team.
Maybe we should have a good look at how the game is played in general. Take in how the rules effect the type of players we put on the park compared with the better teams.
The game I feel has changed even since 2011. The Freo game highlighted this. Brute strength is a necessity. The rules now suit a bigger bodied player. Correct disposal of the ball when tackled seems to no longer exist. I didn't know there was a rule change as I was of the belief that a player when tackled must dispose of the ball either by handball or a kick. With less frees awarded and the pursuit of letting the game flow this rule has just about disappeared.
Bomber Thompson stated when he arrived at bummerland that they needed to get bigger, and we all know how they went about it, but they did alter their structure game day this year with less smalls. They no longer have Monfreis, lonegan reimers Davey, Jedda, Melsham Windelich Dempsey Stanton, Zacofwhatever playing together at any given time, not that they all ever did. but their ratio of similar types has altered.
We have a lot of smalls and with the game and rules as they are, it is little wonder we don't run out games or play consistently for four quarters. We just physically cannot and the rules or should I say lack of won't allow it especially against better teams.
I have noticed our players struggle to retard the opposition, especially in close whereas our boys when tackled are easily retarded.
There will always be a need for nifty clever smalls but I wonder if our balance of talls, smalls and bigger bodied players is outer kilter with the better teams and should we recruit and field teams accordingly.
Monfries kicked 7 against the CATS!
Last night the Doggies culture beat our culture. Their discipline beat our limp discipline. Their blokes knew what to do ...our blokes were confused and afraid. And that confuses me. A coach who understands war should be able to instil courage into his troops. But no, our blokes are hesitant, afraid and non instinctual.
So nothing to do with the coach, the plan or the MC.?
they played footy in a similar style to ours 2 years ago - an instinctive running game with fast linking by hand, breaking lines easily.
Madden could take marks forward and back. Tackle and hurt opponents physically, and with his goal kicking. His tap work compared to Warnock was sublime!
I even saw Madden run and bounce once! :D
Harry gave Tuck the best backhander you've ever seen in the first 10 minutes of the '87 Grand Final, a backhander from Warnock is an oxymoron.
I consider myself a glass half full kind of guy, but we are in serious SERIOUS! trouble going forward. I honestly believe now, with a lack of quality youngsters coming through we are in for a stint in the bottom 4. All of dogs, crows, eagles, lions, roos, suns and possibly gws will go ahead of us. Forget the last quarter and injuries, the bulldogs owned us and should've won by plenty more. I think our burying our head in the sand over the last 2 years thinking we are better than we are has cost us dearly. Tough times ahead
Madden could take marks forward and back. Tackle and hurt opponents physically, and with his goal kicking. His tap work compared to Warnock was sublime!
I even saw Madden run and bounce once! :D
Harry gave Tuck the best backhander you've ever seen in the first 10 minutes of the '87 Grand Final, a backhander from Warnock is an oxymoron.
;D
Didn't he iron out Denis Banks one day at Waverley?
I consider myself a glass half full kind of guy, but we are in serious SERIOUS! trouble going forward. I honestly believe now, with a lack of quality youngsters coming through we are in for a stint in the bottom 4. All of dogs, crows, eagles, lions, roos, suns and possibly gws will go ahead of us. Forget the last quarter and injuries, the bulldogs owned us and should've won by plenty more. I think our burying our head in the sand over the last 2 years thinking we are better than we are has cost us dearly. Tough times ahead
they owned us in the first quarter fully fit and fresh!
@Chooka
Mate, I'm afraid to say you are 100% dead right, spot on, and on the money! :(
I watched MM presser and he said he was most disappointed with the fact that the first bounce strategy was not executed. I could see from the first bounce the Doggies were all over us. As I said in the in game thread, they should have been up by 4 or 5 goals at qtr time. I could tell in the first 10 minutes we were gonna get done, I have a gut full of this soft and insipid side. Fark the Essendon Drug Scandal, lets worry about our own back yard.
Mighty Mick is turning into Marshmallow Mick. Perhaps the Pies got it right - they knew his coaching days were over. I'm quite deflated after this. I thought Malthouse could take our list to the next level. It looks like the next level below.
Mazza!
>:(
How are the Bummers going these days LL?
I think they're still in the 8. Why do you ask?
Ah! They've got their own very special way of achieving that haven't they?
The really sad part is even after their sanctions they will still be a better performed team then us over the next 3-5 years.
Cheats or not their list is clearly superior to ours and by a fair stretch IMO.
At least they were willing to do whatever it took to succeed. Our players couldn't give 2 sh1ts.
I watched MM presser and he said he was most disappointed with the fact that the first bounce strategy was not executed. I could see from the first bounce the Doggies were all over us. As I said in the in game thread, they should have been up by 4 or 5 goals at qtr time. I could tell in the first 10 minutes we were gonna get done, I have a gut full of this soft and insipid side. Fark the Essendon Drug Scandal, lets worry about our own back yard.
the presser was about as inspiring as the onfield stuff.
I watched MM presser and he said he was most disappointed with the fact that the first bounce strategy was not executed. I could see from the first bounce the Doggies were all over us. As I said in the in game thread, they should have been up by 4 or 5 goals at qtr time. I could tell in the first 10 minutes we were gonna get done, I have a gut full of this soft and insipid side. Fark the Essendon Drug Scandal, lets worry about our own back yard.
the presser was about as inspiring as the onfield stuff.
Didnt say it was inspiring, used the point about the first bounce, thats all I got from it. For a side that had a glimmer of hope about playing finals and playing a team below them on the ladder, that was an absolute disgrace. Richmond will spank us by 60+.
I watched MM presser and he said he was most disappointed with the fact that the first bounce strategy was not executed. I could see from the first bounce the Doggies were all over us. As I said in the in game thread, they should have been up by 4 or 5 goals at qtr time. I could tell in the first 10 minutes we were gonna get done, I have a gut full of this soft and insipid side. Fark the Essendon Drug Scandal, lets worry about our own back yard.
the presser was about as inspiring as the onfield stuff.
Didnt say it was inspiring, used the point about the first bounce, thats all I got from it. For a side that had a glimmer of hope about playing finals and playing a team below them on the ladder, that was an absolute disgrace. Richmond will spank us by 60+.
didnt suggest you did, just making my own observations of it :)
Mighty Mick is turning into Marshmallow Mick. Perhaps the Pies got it right - they knew his coaching days were over. I'm quite deflated after this. I thought Malthouse could take our list to the next level. It looks like the next level below.
Mazza!
>:(
How are the Bummers going these days LL?
I think they're still in the 8. Why do you ask?
Ah! They've got their own very special way of achieving that haven't they?
The really sad part is even after their sanctions they will still be a better performed team then us over the next 3-5 years.
Cheats or not their list is clearly superior to ours and by a fair stretch IMO.
At least they were willing to do whatever it took to succeed. Our players couldn't give 2 sh1ts.
Let's give 'em and Jimmy a hearty round of applause then Shawny, eh? 8)
I watched MM presser and he said he was most disappointed with the fact that the first bounce strategy was not executed. I could see from the first bounce the Doggies were all over us. As I said in the in game thread, they should have been up by 4 or 5 goals at qtr time. I could tell in the first 10 minutes we were gonna get done, I have a gut full of this soft and insipid side. Fark the Essendon Drug Scandal, lets worry about our own back yard.
the presser was about as inspiring as the onfield stuff.
Didnt say it was inspiring, used the point about the first bounce, thats all I got from it. For a side that had a glimmer of hope about playing finals and playing a team below them on the ladder, that was an absolute disgrace. Richmond will spank us by 60+.
didnt suggest you did, just making my own observations of it :)
my bad
God :o???
Please let this season end......now!!
What a pityful excuse for a team we have become :-[ .
Where the hell is the players pride in our jumper? I cant fathom how far we've fallen. With our draft history, trades we've made (and sometimes lack of trading) yadda yadda yadda........ my my my, all we've ended up with is a full list of prima donnas who seem content with mediocrity.
Fark you Blues! >:(
Where is the pride in themselves? I dont for one moment care whether or not they care about the club or jumper, but shouldnt they have a little more pride in themselves as a group? Wayne Harms is an unabashed Tigers supporter and lost all connection with Carlton as soon as he stopped playing for us but he had the mental fortitude and pride in himself and his teamates to put it all on the line when he played for us.
Ill take that.
Never sure it was about coaching so much but the attitude and workrate of the players. Other than the odd moment of the last 11 years it been an ingrained problem since 2002. With the players we do have we should do alot better. This is what MM has inherited and that's sometimes harder to fix than a lack of talent. He did it once at the Pies, hopefully he can do it again. Ratts coached well enough but that workrate and attitude problem reared itself last year again.
Now it's MM's turn to see if he can sort it. When he makes list changes he can look at the players who's attitude and workrate is poor as much as those who he's thinks aren't going to cut it. No good had talent if you're adverse to the idea of gut running and doing the basics, Parko did this in his first year back in 1991. We lost the last 8 of the year that year so he cleaned the list out of not only those who weren't going to cut it but those who wouldn't work hard enough either. In the end he got the type of team he wanted and eventually won a flag.
Excellent post mate.
After the start of the year I defended the Coach - hosing down the usual rantings of a few individuals - stating we were improving. I admit now that we are in fact no longer improving - from being a harder nut to crack - to now going backwards. We are going backwards at a rate of knots.
Who is to blame? Looking at the post game presser - thanks Carrots -, I feel confident that the Players take the brunt of the blame. You could tell, and this is my personal observation of it, that the players really let him down. He spoke of player acknowledgement of tactics. He spoke of the Leadership Group taking their role to the expected levels. I get the feeling a lot of players stamped their papers, and senior players at that. I think a number of key players need to be moved on to help change the culture of the squad - especially to allow the younger players to flourish in a different environment. There's something rotten at the core of the squad. But there is definite change needed in our coaching staff list. The development has been shocking and let's not talk about recruitment :o
As for MM, well, he HAS to indicate there will be repercussions for poor play and rewards for those who perform for the Northern Blues. He will gain a lot of respect from me if he drops some players and brings in a few Northern Blues players. He has NOTHING to loose by doing so. He put his eggs in one basket and it failed (they failed!?). His reputation has taken a beating. He'll be fired up to prove doubters wrong. Lets hope the players show the same pride. He has my support to turn things around in 2014. After that he is fair game.
Some observations from the game:
Jamieson is not half the player he was..what is going on? Does he miss Henderson that much? He looks totally panicked at the moment.
Walker - opposition have figured him out and he is struggling.
That was the worst game I have seen from Armfield. Real stinker. So many poor disposals.
Menzel is the future, that kid shows class. I would be very worried if I were one of the three amigos.
I still think Tuohy should be given stint in the middle..he would take the game on and can focus on attack. You can always tell he relishes attacking the game and wanting to unleash that boot of his. Drop one of Cachia or Curnow.
McInnes needs to come back in. Assured young man deserves his chance again. Is he injured? How does Boots get a game ahead of him?
Bryce "watch the hair" Gibbs - he kills me, he really does. Shepherds instead of tackles, jogs instead of gut runs..and that hand on hips saunter when the crap hits the fan..I wanted to run onto the ground a few times to give him five across the eyes. Shows no pride and looks like someone who knows he will not get dropped. Not good enough. Trade.
Simmo and Scotty - I love these two. Uncompromising to the last. We will miss them more that people think.
Murphy - if his knee is that bad then give him a spell. Why do we persist playing half cooked players..it makes no sense. Hell, it deprives youngsters from game time and increases the likelihood of further injuring themselves by persisting to play them. All short term thinking. Back them in and drop those who don't perform. It's not that bloody hard. It shows a complete lack of strategic thinking and ambition to strengthen the list overall. Sh?ts me to tears
And yes, I'll still renew that membership and turn up every game. I love this club. ;)
Have a look at Gibbs' post match presser. He doesn't look to phased by anything. The line that killed me was that his being a No. 1 pick is long forgotten!
Not by me it hasn't Bryce - we expect a hell of a lot more from YOU old son - don't forget a No. 1 pick is a massive investment by any club and we expect returns!
I thought Gibbs was one of the few who ran hard and played well early.
Mighty Mick is turning into Marshmallow Mick. Perhaps the Pies got it right - they knew his coaching days were over. I'm quite deflated after this. I thought Malthouse could take our list to the next level. It looks like the next level below.
Mazza!
>:(
How are the Bummers going these days LL?
I think they're still in the 8. Why do you ask?
Ah! They've got their own very special way of achieving that haven't they?
The really sad part is even after their sanctions they will still be a better performed team then us over the next 3-5 years.
Cheats or not their list is clearly superior to ours and by a fair stretch IMO.
At least they were willing to do whatever it took to succeed. Our players couldn't give 2 sh1ts.
Let's give 'em and Jimmy a hearty round of applause then Shawny, eh? 8)
Cookie, point is let's worry about our own backyard.
We are a bloody mess mate.
Maybe we should have a good look at how the game is played in general. Take in how the rules effect the type of players we put on the park compared with the better teams.
The game I feel has changed even since 2011. The Freo game highlighted this. Brute strength is a necessity. The rules now suit a bigger bodied player. Correct disposal of the ball when tackled seems to no longer exist. I didn't know there was a rule change as I was of the belief that a player when tackled must dispose of the ball either by handball or a kick. With less frees awarded and the pursuit of letting the game flow this rule has just about disappeared.
Bomber Thompson stated when he arrived at bummerland that they needed to get bigger, and we all know how they went about it, but they did alter their structure game day this year with less smalls. They no longer have Monfreis, lonegan reimers Davey, Jedda, Melsham Windelich Dempsey Stanton, Zacofwhatever playing together at any given time, not that they all ever did. but their ratio of similar types has altered.
We have a lot of smalls and with the game and rules as they are, it is little wonder we don't run out games or play consistently for four quarters. We just physically cannot and the rules or should I say lack of won't allow it especially against better teams.
I have noticed our players struggle to retard the opposition, especially in close whereas our boys when tackled are easily retarded.
There will always be a need for nifty clever smalls but I wonder if our balance of talls, smalls and bigger bodied players is outer kilter with the better teams and should we recruit and field teams accordingly.
Monfries kicked 7 against the CATS!
Yep and Port lost to the CATS!
So... I didn't cope too well with the loss last night
We seriously aren't good enough at the moment and we have a few passengers.
@Shawny
I agree Shawny - it will take a lot of work to fix as well.
I consider myself a glass half full kind of guy, but we are in serious SERIOUS! trouble going forward. I honestly believe now, with a lack of quality youngsters coming through we are in for a stint in the bottom 4. All of dogs, crows, eagles, lions, roos, suns and possibly gws will go ahead of us. Forget the last quarter and injuries, the bulldogs owned us and should've won by plenty more. I think our burying our head in the sand over the last 2 years thinking we are better than we are has cost us dearly. Tough times ahead
If we put together a side on paper we can look most sides in the eye. We know that from back in 2011. you don't sit as temporary flag favourite, as we did for a week last year, without that talent. The problem is this lazy culture, lazy workrate and poor attitude. That brings every side down. Must look at who the players are that don't seen to give a sh1t and chuck' em out. If a lesser player goes out there and works his ring off then we keep him. We have to start with a hard working culture where players give a sh1t and not just turn up for their pay packet. thought Ratts was going along way to kjlling that off but it manifested itself again last year and continued on. MM has probably realised what he has walked in to. Easier to best the best out of a lesser side that works hard. we have a list as good, even better than some sides above us but the difference is those sides are fully committed to the task, we're not. Makes one hell of a difference on the scoreboard. Time to change it. Lazy b@astards, it's time to go!
So... I didn't cope too well with the loss last night
We seriously aren't good enough at the moment and we have a few passengers.
Few? I could tolerate a few.
Never sure it was about coaching so much but the attitude and workrate of the players. Other than the odd moment of the last 11 years it been an ingrained problem since 2002. With the players we do have we should do alot better. This is what MM has inherited and that's sometimes harder to fix than a lack of talent. He did it once at the Pies, hopefully he can do it again. Ratts coached well enough but that workrate and attitude problem reared itself last year again.
Now it's MM's turn to see if he can sort it. When he makes list changes he can look at the players who's attitude and workrate is poor as much as those who he's thinks aren't going to cut it. No good had talent if you're adverse to the idea of gut running and doing the basics, Parko did this in his first year back in 1991. We lost the last 8 of the year that year so he cleaned the list out of not only those who weren't going to cut it but those who wouldn't work hard enough either. In the end he got the type of team he wanted and eventually won a flag.
Excellent post mate.
After the start of the year I defended the Coach - hosing down the usual rantings of a few individuals - stating we were improving. I admit now that we are in fact no longer improving - from being a harder nut to crack - to now going backwards. We are going backwards at a rate of knots.
Who is to blame? Looking at the post game presser - thanks Carrots -, I feel confident that the Players take the brunt of the blame. You could tell, and this is my personal observation of it, that the players really let him down. He spoke of player acknowledgement of tactics. He spoke of the Leadership Group taking their role to the expected levels. I get the feeling a lot of players stamped their papers, and senior players at that. I think a number of key players need to be moved on to help change the culture of the squad - especially to allow the younger players to flourish in a different environment. There's something rotten at the core of the squad. But there is definite change needed in our coaching staff list. The development has been shocking and let's not talk about recruitment :o
As for MM, well, he HAS to indicate there will be repercussions for poor play and rewards for those who perform for the Northern Blues. He will gain a lot of respect from me if he drops some players and brings in a few Northern Blues players. He has NOTHING to loose by doing so. He put his eggs in one basket and it failed (they failed!?). His reputation has taken a beating. He'll be fired up to prove doubters wrong. Lets hope the players show the same pride. He has my support to turn things around in 2014. After that he is fair game.
Some observations from the game:
Jamieson is not half the player he was..what is going on? Does he miss Henderson that much? He looks totally panicked at the moment.
Walker - opposition have figured him out and he is struggling.
That was the worst game I have seen from Armfield. Real stinker. So many poor disposals.
Menzel is the future, that kid shows class. I would be very worried if I were one of the three amigos.
I still think Tuohy should be given stint in the middle..he would take the game on and can focus on attack. You can always tell he relishes attacking the game and wanting to unleash that boot of his. Drop one of Cachia or Curnow.
McInnes needs to come back in. Assured young man deserves his chance again. Is he injured? How does Boots get a game ahead of him?
Bryce "watch the hair" Gibbs - he kills me, he really does. Shepherds instead of tackles, jogs instead of gut runs..and that hand on hips saunter when the crap hits the fan..I wanted to run onto the ground a few times to give him five across the eyes. Shows no pride and looks like someone who knows he will not get dropped. Not good enough. Trade.
Simmo and Scotty - I love these two. Uncompromising to the last. We will miss them more that people think.
Murphy - if his knee is that bad then give him a spell. Why do we persist playing half cooked players..it makes no sense. Hell, it deprives youngsters from game time and increases the likelihood of further injuring themselves by persisting to play them. All short term thinking. Back them in and drop those who don't perform. It's not that bloody hard. It shows a complete lack of strategic thinking and ambition to strengthen the list overall. Sh?ts me to tears
And yes, I'll still renew that membership and turn up every game. I love this club. ;)
Woody blokes like you are to be commended. Me however? I am done and I have every right. I have shelled out big money for years for my family memberships but no more. Nuffs enuff, not going to support pea hearts who have no pride. I am gutted and will take me a very long time to recover. Too upset to single out people, all I know is that 22 frauds donned CFC jumpers last night and set our club back 5 years.
Big rumor MM gave Watson a massive spray about toughening up. In effect if he wanted to be an AFL footballer he could not let a sore foot get in the way!
Now it turns out the kid had a broken bone!
Ouch! If true a bit harsh, could be an apology on the cards!
Big rumor MM gave Watson a massive spray about toughening up. In effect if he wanted to be an AFL footballer he could not let a sore foot get in the way!
Now it turns out the kid had a broken bone!
Ouch! If true a bit harsh, could be an apology on the cards!
Where does the rumour come from?
Big rumor MM gave Watson a massive spray about toughening up. In effect if he wanted to be an AFL footballer he could not let a sore foot get in the way!
Now it turns out the kid had a broken bone!
Ouch! If true a bit harsh, could be an apology on the cards!
Where does the rumour come from?
Was told at the pub Watson had some mates, Bumbers fans so not sure they can be trusted, that were sitting behind the CFC bench who overheard a spray and talked about it in one of the bars/pubs after the game. Hopefully just a no substance rumor!
This is what happens when a young side is brought up by a coach on his L plates. Poor recruiting and development 3-5 years ago has caused this problem. It will take MM another 2-3 years to fix it unfortunately.
Unacceptable in every way. Simpluy unacceptable.
Writing is on the wall but the club, and has been for at least 6 weeks, but our clueless coach can't see it.
The gameplan is obselete, even if we could enact it.
Its like a broken FG record - for 10 years we are too weak physically and we have too many small players, but hey, if the opposition can chuck the ball away every time why even bothering to tackle... I think the asset in brute strength is breaking tackles, not laying them, and holding your feet (core strength).
Our lack on on-field leadership is galling.
We need to cull 10-15 players because we haven't made calls for about 3 years and have persisted for to long with spuds like Warnock. Who gave that useless hack a 3 year contract???Other blokes have become too comfortable. Bryce Gibbs - as disappointing a player as I have ever seen at Carlton. in the 70's we had a term for blokes like him - a glider. A bloke happy to run around and get the odd kick and get paid, without bothering to work up a sweat or get dirty. Closely followed by one C. Yarran. How about actually contributing something Chris?
Mick needs a boot in the bum from the board. Blokes need to be played in their correct positions, dropped if out of form, and given work to rectify problems.
Why is Walker kicking out? Is Malthouse seriously so stupid? Stuff like this is just happening too much. Does Malthouse even know the players?
Thought Judd was head and shoulders our best, McLean at least tried, Watson and Bootsma (second half ok) but for the umpteenth time this year - midfield was smashed. Rebuilding has to start there, it is our biggest problem.
Unacceptable in every way. Simpluy unacceptable.
Writing is on the wall but the club, and has been for at least 6 weeks, but our clueless coach can't see it.
The gameplan is obselete, even if we could enact it.
Its like a broken FG record - for 10 years we are too weak physically and we have too many small players, but hey, if the opposition can chuck the ball away every time why even bothering to tackle... I think the asset in brute strength is breaking tackles, not laying them, and holding your feet (core strength).
Our lack on on-field leadership is galling.
We need to cull 10-15 players because we haven't made calls for about 3 years and have persisted for to long with spuds like Warnock. Who gave that useless hack a 3 year contract???Other blokes have become too comfortable. Bryce Gibbs - as disappointing a player as I have ever seen at Carlton. in the 70's we had a term for blokes like him - a glider. A bloke happy to run around and get the odd kick and get paid, without bothering to work up a sweat or get dirty. Closely followed by one C. Yarran. How about actually contributing something Chris?
Mick needs a boot in the bum from the board. Blokes need to be played in their correct positions, dropped if out of form, and given work to rectify problems.
Why is Walker kicking out? Is Malthouse seriously so stupid? Stuff like this is just happening too much. Does Malthouse even know the players?
Thought Judd was head and shoulders our best, McLean at least tried, Watson and Bootsma (second half ok) but for the umpteenth time this year - midfield was smashed. Rebuilding has to start there, it is our biggest problem.
Prof....Wont get an argument from me on any of those comments except I'm not prepared to judge MM until I have seen his recruiting/trade work and the results it brings in 12 months time.
Problem being to replace 10-15 players you need 3 years of solid recruiting and the Carlton philosphy is we dont rebuild just refresh....that mentality usually leads to crazy trades, too many retreds and more chaos as the coach under pressure gets desperate for short term success that cant be sustained and to win flags you need sustained success over a cycle of years.
Why is Walker kicking out? Is Malthouse seriously so stupid? Stuff like this is just happening too much. Does Malthouse even know the players?
Spot on Prof.....said exactly the same thing to my mate during the game. Tuohy should be the man kicking-in each & everytime (now that Watson is injured), with Walker & Jamo never to be allowed to do that task ever again.
We had a 2-page spread in the Hun y'day morning basically smacking us (justifiably) from pillar to post......and that's how our blokes respond; by simply reinforcing what was written about them that very morning. Unbelievable.
Waite had been out with bone bruising to the knee - can someone tell me why he needed his knee bandaged? What the hell would a bandage do for a nearly-healed bruised bone pray tell? Weak as p!ss.......
Well how about being FG fair dinkum and aiming to win one in say 5-7 years by building systematically as opposed to floating along in la la land trying to pinch one, but in reality being light years away form being a contender.
You know the 5 year plan that Collo always trumpted but in reality didn't exist (and the club wasn't patient enough to be bothered anyway).
Identify the players of use now, the future or those who can bring the others along. F the rest off.
I will give an example - one of yours Brother Elwood - Collins. Why that bloke was retained for another year, clogging up the list and contributing squat at a senior level (and hardly anything at Preston as he has been injured again) is mystifying. Yes he gad a contract. So pay him out and get a KID in.
Well how about being FG fair dinkum and aiming to win one in say 5-7 years by building systematically as opposed to floating along in la la land trying to pinch one, but in reality being light years away form being a contender.
You know the 5 year plan that Collo always trumpted but in reality didn't exist (and the club wasn't patient enough to be bothered anyway).
Identify the players of use now, the future or those who can bring the others along. F the rest off.
I will give an example - one of yours Brother Elwood - Collins. Why that bloke was retained for another year, clogging up the list and contributing squat at a senior level (and hardly anything at Preston as he has been injured again) is mystifying. Yes he gad a contract. So pay him out and get a KID in.
Can we not mention Collins ever again please, I get nauseous whenever I hear that name or see a #16 on the back of a guernsey. We love you Grigga, please come back.
Why is Walker kicking out? Is Malthouse seriously so stupid? Stuff like this is just happening too much. Does Malthouse even know the players?
Spot on Prof.....said exactly the same thing to my mate during the game.
Been saying that for a while now. Okay, Mick needs to see these guys fail with his own eyes instead of believing we have stopped some of these tactics for a reason but why he persists is beyond me.