Carlton Supporters Club

And the winner is:

Fought it out.
Beaten by a better side.

The magic 3-4 goal loss strikes again.

Never going to win when 3-6+ blokes contribute roughly zero.

Including a captain.

Went pretty much to script. Showed some fight early which forced Melbourne to actually get warmed up earlier than planned. Then chased arse for the rest of the game to lose by 4-5 goals. So looking forward to next week against the Dawks where no doubt we'll play really badly and roll over to an inferior side.
Backline was the worst I've seen them play all year.

Pretty much as I expected today.

3 and 6 though is not quite what I was expecting at this point. I'm an optimist. Rack my brain as I might, I just can't see the signs of improvement. Rebuild or no rebuild, we're not developing at the pace of the competition. That worries me much😬

If we lose next week Teague will be on notice.

Pretty much as I expected today.

3 and 6 though is not quite what I was expecting at this point. I'm an optimist. Rack my brain as I might, I just can't see the signs of improvement. Rebuild or no rebuild, we're not developing at the pace of the competition. That worries me much😬

Dont think we were expecting teams like Melbourne to improve more than us, this is always the problem, we can improve and we have but teams like the Dees, Dogs have gone to the next level and are making us look like we havent improved.

If we lose next week Teague will be on notice.

As he should be.

The selections (and non selection) of certain players has been inexcusable.

Any word on Cuners?

Plowman excellent, decision making was wonderful
Murphy incredible, really cracked in
Pittonet all over Gawn
And congratulations to the fitness and conditioning team, we are just so durable.
Great moves in the second half by the coaching team

I’ve officially had enough of the excuses, lack of durability and overall lack of system. Learning on the run, players falling like flies .

If we lose next week Teague will be on notice.

I think he is already in trouble...finals are now a long shot and with the Swans and WC after Hawthorn its going to get tougher.
The club may have to make a call on what to do for the rest of the year after those games and decide if we just play kids
over some of the older players who wont be taking us anywhere.

Not beating top sides carrying 3 players that are carrying injuries plus then Harry getting hurt too.

Not beating top sides carrying 3 players that are carrying injuries plus then Harry getting hurt too.

We’re so injury prone. Why?

Here is our forwardline that is either injured or not fit enough for AFL level.

HF - Martin - Curnow - McGovern
FF - Fisher - TDK - Silvagni

Dont think we were expecting teams like Melbourne to improve more than us, this is always the problem, we can improve and we have but teams like the Dees, Dogs have gone to the next level and are making us look like we havent improved.

Don't think we expected to be above Hawks and Pies at this stage either. Works both ways.

Harry's injury is a major concern and Dave Cunningham looks to be out for a period of time, disappointing but that's football. I watched it until early in the third then switched over to watch the Storm. Glad I did.

Don't think we expected to be above Hawks and Pies at this stage either. Works both ways.

Seriously, you thought we'd be below Hawthorn?

FMD.

Not beating top sides carrying 3 players that are carrying injuries plus then Harry getting hurt too.

Lot of top teams now, tough comp/season when a class team like the Tigers sit eighth....we cant account for other teams improving and its just so hard to win a game now.

Harry's injury is a major concern and Dave Cunningham looks to be out for a period of time, disappointing but that's football. I watched it until early in the third then switched over to watch the Storm. Glad I did.

You missed our best quarter of turnovers 😂

Don't think we expected to be above Hawks and Pies at this stage either. Works both ways.

Disagree, think most expected us to be above both those teams, think the general view is that the Hawks are way off the pace as they showed vs Nth Melb and scribes have them as no chance for a flag for a long while.
The fact is like i said we can improve but its all about the rate of improvement and we are just slower at the minute.

Lot of top teams now, tough comp/season when a class team like the Tigers sit eighth....we cant account for other teams improving and its just so hard to win a game now.

To me that means we're not improving at a similar rate. We've had our share if top draft picks, top performance bloke, etc. If we were, we'd be placed differently. Dees, Dogs, Swans are showing what I was hoping 🙏 for this far into our rebuild. Alas... looking like another honourable year.

Well we fixed the clearance ledger. I think the rest of the team were practicing their turnovers at training... O0  O0

Year is gone again. More excuses as to why but reality is we are no where near it. We will again be a bottom 6 team.

Apart from Weitering, Walsh, Harry and maybe Saad who can you count on week in week out to play at a consistently high level. 

I mean how many players we got in during this rebuild and to have only a handful who we can really count on who don’t have brain fades, don’t have sloppy skills under pressure or major hot and cold patches is embarrassing.

Wtf have we done to Cripps? He’s not half the player he was and looks incapable of getting close to it. I copped a lot of flak for how critical I was of SOS in his inability to get this bloke decent support - we are now seeing exactly what I was eluding to. Midfield is still a shambles 6 years on.
Losing Kruezer has hurt Cripps big time but having no suitable replacement is a yet another major fail of list management. Then we pay crazy money for a half back flanker hoping like hell his one good game as a midfielder was what he could deliver week in week out. 😳

What a major F***up on every level. I can see Cripps leaving and going home and to be honest I don’t blame him.

Then to watch Teague emotionless in the box just tops things off.  Been a member for 20 plus years doubt that run will continue. Enough is enough.

To me that means we're not improving at a similar rate. We've had our share if top draft picks, top performance bloke, etc. If we were, we'd be placed differently. Dees, Dogs, Swans are showing what I was hoping 🙏 for this far into our rebuild. Alas... looking like another honourable year.

Just have to hope we have a catalyst year where we really improve at a greater rate than other teams. I think we have improved but when teams like the Swans who should be bottoming out are suddenly back in the finals fray it shows how hard the comp is.
Geelong are another who should be struggling like Hawthorn after being through a long cycle of finals appearances but just keep staying competitive. It becomes a real grind to make inroads up the ladder when other teams are not playing their part and taking their turn at the bottom.

Just have to hope we have a catalyst year where we really improve at a greater rate than other teams. I think we have improved but when teams like the Swans who should be bottoming out are suddenly back in the finals fray it shows how hard the comp is.
Geelong are another who should be struggling like Hawthorn after being through a long cycle of finals appearances but just keep staying competitive. It becomes a real grind to make inroads up the ladder when other teams are not playing their part and taking their turn at the bottom.

We've too many beginners playing @ElwoodBlues1‍, those clubs that consolidate generally do so with a stable list of guys who are 50 to 100 games. We've a 1/4 of the team that are still in their 1st season together, they need 2 or 3 full seasons together to be reliable.

The Dees are a good example of that, mostly the same team that ran with last season and the bulk were there the season before that!

If we lose next week Teague will be on notice.

Agree but new coach or not we have majority of the list you just can’t count on. We swap every week average footballers for other average footballers.

I reckon I could name 10 blokes today who hard on today don’t deserve a game next week yet who comes in for them apart from TDK who gives you any great confidence they will improve us.

We've too many beginners playing @ElwoodBlues1‍, those clubs that consolidate generally do so with a stable list of guys who are 50 to 100 games. We've a 1/4 of the team that are still in their 1st season together, they need 2 or 3 full seasons together to be reliable.

The Dees are a good example of that, mostly the same team that ran with last season and the bulk were there the season before that!

Should this be happening in the 6th year of a rebuild?

We've too many beginners playing @ElwoodBlues1‍, those clubs that consolidate generally do so with a stable list of guys who are 50 to 100 games. We've a 1/4 of the team that are still in their 1st season together, they need 2 or 3 full seasons together to be reliable.

The Dees are a good example of that, mostly the same team that ran with last season and the bulk were there the season before that!

And they also don't (at least for now) go into knee jerk, panic mode when the season doesn't go to plan. 2018 5th. 2019 17th. 2020 9th. If that was Carlton, Goodwin and half the list would have been sacked, if not in '19, then certainly in '20.

Should this be happening in the 6th year of a rebuild?

We changed the coach, it's no longer the same rebuild, changing a coach resets everything and unfortunately for our coach his 2020 Season counts for nought because it was a mickey mouse season.

Today is almost Season 1 for this group, which is why while I hope for more, I expect 9th to 12th.

If BigH goes down, it'll probably be worse than 12th because we've got him and nada at the moment! No BigH, no Betts crumbs, no Owies crumbs, no goals.

Agree but new coach or not we have majority of the list you just can’t count on. We swap every week average footballers for other average footballers.

I reckon I could name 10 blokes today who hard on today don’t deserve a game next week yet who comes in for them apart from TDK who gives you any great confidence they will improve us.

I'm not blaming him, I think the whole coaching panel and list management have questions to answer. Why are we omitting blokes and making them sub?

SPS dropped then made sub, played 2 part games with limited time and dropped again? WTF?

We've too many beginners playing @ElwoodBlues1‍, those clubs that consolidate generally do so with a stable list of guys who are 50 to 100 games. We've a 1/4 of the team that are still in their 1st season together, they need 2 or 3 full seasons together to be reliable.

The Dees are a good example of that, mostly the same team that ran with last season and the bulk were there the season before that!

I agree having a stable list helps, we dont have a settled lineup and are still mucking around organizing deckchairs rather than
game plans/style. eg Melb had 3-4 targets and we had one, injuries have robbed us of players and time to construct a team.
No use sacking coaches, we just need more time and luck with players and its going to be uncomfortable viewing for a while...

I agree having a stable list helps, we dont have a settled lineup and are still mucking around organizing deckchairs rather than
game plans/style. eg Melb had 3-4 targets and we had one, injuries have robbed us of players and time to construct a team.
No use sacking coaches, we just need more time and luck with players and its going to be uncomfortable viewing for a while...

Yay.

Can anyone confirm the max number of unanswered goals Melbourne kicked today ? I think it was 3, but it's hard to check.

I'm not blaming him, I think the whole coaching panel and list management have questions to answer. Why are we omitting blokes and making them sub?

SPS dropped then made sub, played 2 part games with limited time and dropped again? WTF?

I bet this is more about who is or isn't doing what at VFL level, rather than purely looking after the AFL group.

I would have to say on Gibbons and SPS that neither deserved a spot this week, but maybe the VFL kids aren't ready either!

I bet this is more about who is or isn't doing what at VFL level, rather than purely looking after the AFL group.

I would have to say on Gibbons and SPS that neither deserved a spot this week, but maybe the VFL kids aren't ready either!

Well both of their form without a doubt is better than WIlliams so why was he in?

Why are playing 6 half back flankers?

I'm not blaming him, I think the whole coaching panel and list management have questions to answer. Why are we omitting blokes and making them sub?

SPS dropped then made sub, played 2 part games with limited time and dropped again? WTF?

Yeah I do see your point as the coaching and selection decisions can make you wonder. SPS is one of those players we as fans get very frustrated with then when he finally loses his spot we can be critical on how he is treated. He is one of those guys who we want in the team then when he plays an average game he is the first most want dropped.   I used to like SPS but he like many more has had his time to shine and still produces sub par levels so his current position is overdue and maybe not everyone's cup of tea but he put himself in this position. 

Can anyone confirm the max number of unanswered goals Melbourne kicked today ? I think it was 3, but it's hard to check.

4
First one just before half-time.
First 3 of the 3rd quarter.

Positives

I thought for a 1st game back against the top side Newman was OK, yet he looks like he needs a few games so I hope he'll get better.

4
First one just before half-time.
First 3 of the 3rd quarter.

Thanks.

Just a question
Does anyone think we learnt anything today that we didn't already know?


I think today was pretty much a 'nothing' day?
No progress, but no backward steps either.
The margin wasn't huge, but we were probably saved a bit in that respect by their comparable inaccuracy and the weather.
We probably won't feature heavy in football discussions this week as most of it's been done to death. 

(Just want to add that Melbourne were nothing special and some of their lairy high handpasses smacked of an arrogance that would be belted out of them by some sides. )

Positives
I thought for a 1st game back against the top side Newman was OK, yet he looks like he needs a few games so I hope he'll get better.

I'll add another one. Stocker got a start up forward and had a fair bit of on-ball time which was good to see. While he was a bit sloppy at times I thought he did OK also and I think they should persist with this for a little while and see what he's got. If only for the mongrel he shows at the aggot.

It was another poor effort. POOR as a team, so many total absolute passengers.

Some will say we competed hard....

Tell me which of the Dees burned, even briefly, today?

Not Gawn, not Petracca, not Oliver or even Salem.....yet we were miles away.

Richmond, Brisbane, Port Adelaide, Bulldogs and Melbourne flexed their muscles when they had to against us. Don't let the score lines fool you, we were never ever going to win those games.

Any word on Cuners?

No word but did not look good. In great pain on the ground and then was able to walk off. Hate to say most likely an ACL. Poor guy can not take a trick, just as he was building some momentum.

Disagree, think most expected us to be above both those teams, think the general view is that the Hawks are way off the pace as they showed vs Nth Melb and scribes have them as no chance for a flag for a long while.
The fact is like i said we can improve but its all about the rate of improvement and we are just slower at the minute.

Not according to Jeffery.  ::)  ::)

Richmond, Brisbane, Port Adelaide, Bulldogs and Melbourne flexed their muscles when they had to against us. Don't let the score lines fool you, we were never ever going to win those games.

We were never going to win them even before the season started.

Just a question
Does anyone think we learnt anything today that we didn't already know?


I think today was pretty much a 'nothing' day?
No progress, but no backward steps either.
The margin wasn't huge, but we were probably saved a bit in that respect by their comparable inaccuracy and the weather.
We probably won't feature heavy in football discussions this week as most of it's been done to death.

Mate that is exactly what I said to my daughter on the way home from the game.
My observations (was seated behind the goals level 1 behind the Carlton Cheer squad):
- Melb mids seemed to track the ball and hunt in packs of 4 or 5 putting pressure on us. They would spread hard when they won it.
- Their ball movement from Def to Fwd was very slick, ours was scruffy and inefficient. We have to work so hard for our goals, they seemed to do something creative nearly every time they went fwd.
- The value of a gun ruckman was on display today.
- Crippa just tries to do too much, gets caught too often and turns it over too often. I think he needs to get back to basics.
- I saw 6 defenders at their end who looked structured and made our fwds lives hard. Ours were bit all over the shop. Ol mate Plow was bit ordinary at times with his effort and disposal.
I'm note sure what to take out of it other than I can see why Melb are 9-0 and we are 3-6. I predicted a 4-5 goal loss and that's what happened.

Just a question
Does anyone think we learnt anything today that we didn't already know?


I think today was pretty much a 'nothing' day?
No progress, but no backward steps either.
The margin wasn't huge, but we were probably saved a bit in that respect by their comparable inaccuracy and the weather.
We probably won't feature heavy in football discussions this week as most of it's been done to death. 

(Just want to add that Melbourne were nothing special and some of their lairy high handpasses smacked of an arrogance that would be belted out of them by some sides. )

More confirmation rather than learning anything new.

To me it confirmed that we are not that far away. Hear me out.

1. Dees are unbeaten this year, so losing to them is no shame
2. Dees defence has kept opposition sides to an average of 61 points for so far this season. We exceeded that, with Harry having 1 arm, injuries to probably 4 other starting forwards (Martin, Fisher, Curnow, Silvagni) and did so mainly in pouring rain.
3. We played poorly, but still only lost by less than 5 goals. We have a knack of doing this...staying in games. What happens when we get players back and start to click.
4. We are doing all of the above with Cripps being a liability. Previously its been solely because of Cripps.

So.....with all the negative about us, injuries, playing poorly etc etc....we simply will not die, will not go away. What happens when we shed some of that negativity? What happens when we can pick a side that we want to pick, not a side that is thrust upon us because of injuries.

We are 1 step away from winning ugly. Thats when teams rocket up the ladder. If you play poorly and win.

Geelong are another who should be struggling

Helps when you don’t have a salary cap

Just a quick one - I only saw bits and pieces of the game today (end of q1 thru to late in the 3rd).   Just looked at the stats and they say weeters didn’t take a mark?

Is that right?
When was the last time that happened?
Were melb just good at taking him out of the play?

Re Williams
I too was critical of his underwhelming output.
Interesting Teague talked about sending down back where he's familiar, and can build his confidence. Here's hoping he can bounce back and develop quickly in the midfield.

Re Cripps
Teague's admission of poor, dishonest  Presser comments about Crippa's back injury was embarrassing IMO

Just a quick one - I only saw bits and pieces of the game today (end of q1 thru to late in the 3rd).   Just looked at the stats and they say weeters didn’t take a mark?

Is that right?
When was the last time that happened?
Were melb just good at taking him out of the play?

That's right. No marks. Not sure when he last did that. I think Melbourne was pretty slick with their ball use, and i think this was one of our poorer performances for the season. Weitering competed hard, but he and many of our other boys were down today. The Dees took 14 marks inside 50 from 52 entries, which is pretty good going IMO.

More confirmation rather than learning anything new.

To me it confirmed that we are not that far away. Hear me out.

1. Dees are unbeaten this year, so losing to them is no shame
2. Dees defence has kept opposition sides to an average of 61 points for so far this season. We exceeded that, with Harry having 1 arm, injuries to probably 4 other starting forwards (Martin, Fisher, Curnow, Silvagni) and did so mainly in pouring rain.
3. We played poorly, but still only lost by less than 5 goals. We have a knack of doing this...staying in games. What happens when we get players back and start to click.
4. We are doing all of the above with Cripps being a liability. Previously its been solely because of Cripps.

So.....with all the negative about us, injuries, playing poorly etc etc....we simply will not die, will not go away. What happens when we shed some of that negativity? What happens when we can pick a side that we want to pick, not a side that is thrust upon us because of injuries.

We are 1 step away from winning ugly. Thats when teams rocket up the ladder. If you play poorly and win.

Agree with a lot of that but....
Today showed that while we might get players back in the coming weeks there is also a very good chance we'll lose some as well.
More of a chance if some of these 'niggly' injuries get worse because players attempt to play through them.

Why are we injured so easily?

It’s so infuriating.

I love cripps but he gets caught HOTB way too often!

Result did surprise me. I expected a bigger loss on the scoreboard. I remember that the Dees were due for a loss. Not this week. Next week against the Hawks is a bad situation for Teague. A win will prove nothing. A loss will highlight way too much. Wouldn’t want to be in his shoes. Somehow continuing to get closer to the bottom 4 is going to put the heat on the club very soon. Honourable losses only go so far. The media will turn the burners up another level if our squad don’t find that little extra soon. On that note we better not play the Hawks back into form. We will never hear the end of it.

Why are we injured so easily?

It’s so infuriating.

I love cripps but he gets caught HOTB way too often!

Agree...effort was there he just needs to get rid of the ball quicker mainly by hand, he had Oliver and Harmes rotating off him
and just seems to get slower as the game progresses.
He isnt right and he should have been rested, I hope we dont do the same with harry who had a taped shoulder in the Dogs game and seems to have injured himself during todays game.
The win might be important in the short term but you dont mess with your key players well being by playing them injured.

I agree having a stable list helps, we dont have a settled lineup and are still mucking around organizing deckchairs rather than
game plans/style. eg Melb had 3-4 targets and we had one, injuries have robbed us of players and time to construct a team.
No use sacking coaches, we just need more time and luck with players and its going to be uncomfortable viewing for a while...

But we have been saying this for twenty years, and this year just adds to the misery.

Despite many first round picks we have an unbalanced list clogged with players just going through the motions - no passion and little ability.

Where are the forward coaches?  Again today, as in so many matches, it was a case of bombing the ball from the forward 50 metre arc.  It doesn't work but we keep doing it.

Just another wasted year with the Club producing the same old same old.

Just a quick one - I only saw bits and pieces of the game today (end of q1 thru to late in the 3rd).   Just looked at the stats and they say weeters didn’t take a mark?

Is that right?
When was the last time that happened?
Were melb just good at taking him out of the play?

Melbourne had four targets who could take a mark as well as Gawn hanging around at times down forward and
the game didnt lend itself to a lot of defensive marking and was more a day for spoiling and being conservative. I thought Weitering was ok today and seem to rotate between opponents.
Fritch was a nuisance being that inbetween size marking player and we looked a player short with Parks having an absolute shocker.

In some ways I would have preferred to lose by 10 goals.   That way some change of mindset at the selection table might take place.

Agree with a lot of that but....
Today showed that while we might get players back in the coming weeks there is also a very good chance we'll lose some as well.
More of a chance if some of these 'niggly' injuries get worse because players attempt to play through them.

I hear ya, and its somewhat true.

Injuries have a tipping point....once you reach a critical point, you are more likely to get more.

However, some of our injuries have been relatively long term....or uber long term in Charlies case.
Mainly i'm talking blokes like Newman, been missing for 2 years basically.
TDK will surely be an in next week, he's missed plenty of football as well.
Then you have Fisher and Martin who can't be too far away, they both suffered 6-weekers.

Thats 4 without even trying.
We'll have SOJ back....and probably lose him again... ::)

Carroll has been missing for a large part of the year and will play a game soon enough.
Kemp has been missing since he got to the club and can't be too far away.

Towards the 2nd part of the year we might get Charlie, Gov and Oscar back.

Yes, we've lost Cunners. Someone will probably do a hamstring or a calf and be missing for 3-4 weeks as well. Thats fine, i accept that.

Overall, we've had some long term injuries that are coming to an end and are starting to sprinkle back in.

We couldn't possibly have worst luck than we've already had.

But we have been saying this for twenty years, and this year just adds to the misery.

Despite many first round picks we have an unbalanced list clogged with players just going through the motions - no passion and little ability.

Where are the forward coaches?  Again today, as in so many matches, it was a case of bombing the ball from the forward 50 metre arc.  It doesn't work but we keep doing it.

Just another wasted year with the Club producing the same old same old.

The list needs work and decisions made on the way ahead, we need a reset of sorts but we also need stability. No coach is going to make us top 4 without our best team on the park, plus some more top end talent which includes Charlie Curnow back and firing.
Teague needs better assistants, all good successful coaches have good successful assistants, and we need a review of the high performance area and medical team too, there isnt anything too high in performance how we run out games and manage injuries IMHO. We dont look as fit as other teams and carry too many banged up players from year to year....

More confirmation rather than learning anything new.

To me it confirmed that we are not that far away. Hear me out.

1. Dees are unbeaten this year, so losing to them is no shame
2. Dees defence has kept opposition sides to an average of 61 points for so far this season. We exceeded that, with Harry having 1 arm, injuries to probably 4 other starting forwards (Martin, Fisher, Curnow, Silvagni) and did so mainly in pouring rain.
3. We played poorly, but still only lost by less than 5 goals. We have a knack of doing this...staying in games. What happens when we get players back and start to click.
4. We are doing all of the above with Cripps being a liability. Previously its been solely because of Cripps.

So.....with all the negative about us, injuries, playing poorly etc etc....we simply will not die, will not go away. What happens when we shed some of that negativity? What happens when we can pick a side that we want to pick, not a side that is thrust upon us because of injuries.

We are 1 step away from winning ugly. Thats when teams rocket up the ladder. If you play poorly and win.

Krudd,

I respectfully ask that you stop been so positive and thoughtful on your assessment of the state of our beloved club. I like some of the other members of this forum do not have the foresight, knowledge or positivity to see the good or the light at the end of the tunnel like your good self.

I am a mere mortal and personally after the last 20 years of crap and promises that our club has dished out i feel, after another almost win, a sense of disappointment, blackness and frustration on, why am I doing this to myself, until I read your posts. And then I think about what you say and I can see the light again. Its dazzling and bright, and I can almost touch it, its just out of reach and I'm stretching to reach it, and this is where the problem is, its killing me!!!

So please stop seeing all the good about the state of our club and let me wallow in my self pity and darkness that has enveloped me over the last 20 years so that I can stop hoping to see our club rise to the top of the ladder, play finals and add another premiership to our trophy cabinet at the good ship Princess Park. Have a heart and think of what your doing to me.  :)  :)

BTW, he has largely escaped any criticism this year, but i reckon Cottrell needs to lift.

He seems to have lost the manic pressure he's had. Last week and this week he seems to trail his opponent to the ball off the square where previously he'd get there first. Not sure if he's injured, or if the constant AFL grind is starting to take its toll, but he just seems a little off to me.

Perhaps he could've had a rest this week instead of Newnes or SPS who are more battle hardened.....or started as the sub instead of Gibbo.

It was another poor effort. POOR as a team, so many total absolute passengers.

Some will say we competed hard....

Tell me which of the Dees burned, even briefly, today?

Not Gawn, not Petracca, not Oliver or even Salem.....yet we were miles away.

Agreed ... if they had, the scoreboard would have been ugly.

I'll hang it out - and no doubt cop flak.

What message did it send to the playing group today picking Murphy (let alone off the back of constantly playing an injured Cripps)?

Krudd,

I respectfully ask that you stop been so positive and thoughtful on your assessment of the state of our beloved club. I like some of the other members of this forum do not have the foresight, knowledge or positivity to see the good or the light at the end of the tunnel like your good self.

I am a mere mortal and personally after the last 20 years of crap and promises that our club has dished out i feel, after another almost win, a sense of disappointment, blackness and frustration on, why am I doing this to myself, until I read your posts. And then I think about what you say and I can see the light again. Its dazzling and bright, and I can almost touch it, its just out of reach and I'm stretching to reach it, and this is where the problem is, its killing me!!!

So please stop seeing all the good about the state of our club and let me wallow in my self pity and darkness that has enveloped me over the last 20 years so that I can stop hoping to see our club rise to the top of the ladder, play finals and add another premiership to our trophy cabinet at the good ship Princess Park. Have a heart and think of what your doing to me.  :)  :)

Sorry to string you along benny.  :-[

Maybe just skip over my positive posts from now on. You can probably read 99% of the other posts on here that will give you what you need, that negative, darkness that fosters your self pity.

Apologies.
 :-X

.........................
What message did it send to the playing group today picking Murphy..........................................

Because our ball use is average and he's one of the few decent distributors we have.

Because he has experience.

Because there's no one else, currently fit and available, that can do the job better.

Because the MC know more about football than we do.

BTW, he has largely escaped any criticism this year, but i reckon Cottrell needs to lift.

He seems to have lost the manic pressure he's had. Last week and this week he seems to trail his opponent to the ball off the square where previously he'd get there first. Not sure if he's injured, or if the constant AFL grind is starting to take its toll, but he just seems a little off to me.

Perhaps he could've had a rest this week instead of Newnes or SPS who are more battle hardened.....or started as the sub instead of Gibbo.

Have to agree...Cottrell is a limited player and has to make up the difference in regard talent with manic pressure as you suggest and had trouble with Langdon today who is a slippery player. His selection each week probably tells you more about how we are travelling and how other more rated players are travelling rather than Cottrell himself.
A player like SPS should be on that wing not Cottrell but the coach cant pick him because he cant trust him to work hard enough..

Because our ball use is average and he's one of the few decent distributors we have.

Because he has experience.

Because there's no one else, currently fit and available, that can do the job better.

Because the MC know more about football than we do.

The proof's in the pudding Paul.

I'll leave it at that.

The proof's in the pudding Paul.

I'll leave it at that.

 sMurph was OK today, far from our worst.

sMurph was OK today, far from our worst.

That's missing the point.

That's missing the point.

 It's easy to say we should bring someone else in, who based on the last VFL game?

Yet people still want to pension off Betts.  NOT ONCE did he stop trying.   When someone else proves to be of better value, he remains on the list.

We are now certainly out of finals contention barring a miracle. 

It's easy to say we should bring someone else in, who based on the last VFL game?

Honey.

Fast, got mongrel.

Might even impact a game with 5 or so touches.

Murph (these days) gets touches in the teens, zero impact.

Reckon any Dees' player thought twice when they saw Murphy named?

With Murphy its always about his pros vs his cons....yes he is experienced, can kick a handy goal or give another one off with a quick smart kick vs no pressure on his defender, one way running and IMO not providing the leadership we need from an older player. But this isnt a premiership year and he probably has about 10-12 games to round off his career so I would expect him to see out the year in the seniors.
IMHO he has gone on for a year too long and my preference would have been Josh Honey on the Half Forward flank as Fly suggested.
Murphy probably needed to do a Shaun Higgins and play out the last couple of years at a contender rather than a developing club.

The proof's in the pudding Paul.

I'll leave it at that.

Murphy has played nearly 300 games, into his 16th season, under 5 coaches (6 if you count Barker). He's never been dropped once. If the MC thought Honey or anyone else could do a better job, that fellow would be picked.

Murphy has played nearly 300 games, into his 16th season, under 5 coaches (6 if you count Barker). He's never been dropped once. If the MC thought Honey or anyone else could do a better job, that fellow would be picked.

I think Murphy is using some of those credits he has banked as a near 300 game player and the club are showing him loyalty due to his status and want to send him off in a positive light rather than allowing him to fade to black quickly.

I think Murphy is using some of those credits he has banked as a near 300 game player and the club are showing him loyalty due to his status and want to send him off in a positive light rather than allowing him to fade to black quickly.

If nothing else, he is like a coach out on the ground.
He'll know the setups.
He'll notice trends.
He'll see who is or isn't following instructions.

Ball in hand stuff is easy to measure.
The other stuff....not so much.

If nothing else, he is like a coach out on the ground.
He'll know the setups.
He'll notice trends.
He'll see who is or isn't following instructions.

Ball in hand stuff is easy to measure.
The other stuff....not so much.

worked a treat today.

Yet people still want to pension off Betts.  NOT ONCE did he stop trying.   When someone else proves to be of better value, he remains on the list.

We are now certainly out of finals contention barring a miracle. 

Betts is seriously the least of our problems.

Betts is seriously the least of our problems.

Sorry re your bets @flyboy77 .... brave punts !

Lost to the undefeated top team. We simply weren't good enough to win that type of game. We have blokes out, are playing 3 blokes injured, Cripps, Williams and Casboult, lost Cunningham early and McKay's output was reduced with his shoulder. 26pts was probably a good result. Somehow we manage again to stay within some type of touch but we were never winning. Last week was our chance to get a big win and we choked it up. Lots to improve on with blokes returning, as well as the brittle mental aspects and losing culture.

Sorry re your bets @flyboy77 .... brave punts !

I keep expecting us to play like it means something.

I keep being disappointed.

Lost to the undefeated top team. We simply weren't good enough to win that type of game. We have blokes out, are playing 3 blokes injured, Cripps, Williams and Casboult, lost Cunningham early and McKay's output was reduced with his shoulder. 26pts was probably a good result. Somehow we manage again to stay within some type of touch but we were never winning. Last week was our chance to get a big win and we choked it up. Lots to improve on with blokes returning, as well as the brittle mental aspects and losing culture.

Interesting to hear BigH has been carrying that shoulder for a few weeks,

Teague made an interesting point post match about being hurt by players trying too hard and being sucked into the contest is a big part of the recent results. A few have made that observation here so we have some astute members.

Sorry to string you along benny.  :-[

Maybe just skip over my positive posts from now on. You can probably read 99% of the other posts on here that will give you what you need, that negative, darkness that fosters your self pity.

Apologies.
 :-X

Well, there must be a reason if 99% of posts contain a negative darkness .

Perhaps people have become tired of false promises and rebuilds that have left us still entrenched in the lower half of the ladder.

I do appreciate your positive post regarding the hoped for early return of injured players.  But there has to be a wait and see period as questions remain over their fitness long term.

Kemp.  He may be good.  We simply don't know.
Charlie.  Will he be able to avoid further injury once his knee is put to the test in match play?  What will his mental state be after such a long layoff?
Williams.  Is he carrying an achilles tendon problem?
Cripps.  How will this mystery back injury affect his career long term?
TDK.  Is he injury prone or just having a run of bad luck?

I'm sure that if there are positive answers in the near future to my questions then that will be reflected in posts in the future.

   

we suck.......soo many soft efforts


Can anyone tell how many of SOSs 11/12 GWS retreads have got 100 games up?

I thought Marchbank was our best steal but missed almost 2 years with a bad back

Setters,Kennedy,Somers,Marchie,Plowman and all

Can anyone tell Harry M that if you want to shop yourself for 800k next year you have to go harder on May and not try and take a chest mark in a contested mark in a pack?

Teague must go midseason... Bolton mk2 nice guy dud clueless mid game......


"I still believe in this playing group" sure we don't when your guys keep serving up hot steaming turds of performance!

U have sucked as all again....we suck

we suck.......soo many soft efforts


Can anyone tell how many of SOSs 11/12 GWS retreads have got 100 games up?

I thought Marchbank was our best steal but missed almost 2 years with a bad back

Setters,Kennedy,Somers,Marchie,Plowman and all

Can anyone tell Harry M that if you want to shop yourself for 800k next year you have to go harder on May and not try and take a chest mark in a contested mark in a pack?

Teague must go midseason... Bolton mk2 nice guy dud clueless mid game......


"I still believe in this playing group" sure we don't when your guys keep serving up hot steaming turds of performance!

U have sucked as all again....we suck

Appreciate your frustration and agree on some points but sacking the coach mid year will just make us more unstable and unattractive to prospective coaches.
Agree on the GWS experiment, its hasnt produced what we thought or needed....bit tough On Harry who battled on well against a bloke who doesnt show much mercy. Blame the medical staff for sending him out there with a bung shoulder to start with.....see Cripps back...see Williams achillies....

It’s strange that Harry’s shoulder was very loosely strapped last week and Unstrapped this week.

Murphy has golden ticket to 300


Nice career but not worthy of current selection

Teague sucks...over his namby pamby pressers...beat us everywhere good coaching..must get better at the contest...so useless

our ball use was poor.....hello..we have sucked all year...no skills ..we must grow and learn...wtf u been doing for 16 months?

We are so over this crap poor coaching and nice guy approach....weak assist coaches like Barker useless 10 years ..get McClure involved and some hard nut Carlton 80/90s flag legends involved

Murphy has golden ticket to 300


Nice career but not worthy of current selection

Teague sucks...over his namby pamby pressers...beat us everywhere good coaching..must get better at the contest...so useless

our ball use was poor.....hello..we have sucked all year...no skills ..we must grow and learn...wtf u been doing for 16 months?

We are so over this crap poor coaching and nice guy approach....weak assist coaches like Barker useless 10 years ..get McClure involved and some hard nut Carlton 80/90s flag legends involved

So your solution is to get dinosaurs from the 80s and 90s? And what will they do? Tap the Kegs in the rooms Post Match?

Maybe bring some old school winning tough nut culture back into the rooms when we don't  take competitive losses as a pass mark or am I being to old school dinosaur and not new age? maybe might hurt a few sensitive woke feelings sorry......

Maybe bring some old school winning tough nut culture back into the rooms when we don't  take competitive losses as a pass mark or am I being to old school dinosaur and not new age? maybe might hurt a few sensitive woke feelings sorry......

Talk is cheap, I am sure plenty of old timers have been in the rooms telling them their war stories, hasn't worked, never will.

I think Murphy is using some of those credits he has banked as a near 300 game player and the club are showing him loyalty due to his status and want to send him off in a positive light rather than allowing him to fade to black quickly.

I have to disagree. He is getting games because he is the best available for his spot. Just like Nathan Jones at Melbourne, when some kid is good enough to take Murphy's spot, that kid will get his chance. It could be next week, next month. next year. I simply don't believe he is being gifted games. He gets games because he deserves them. Murphy is still highly regarded by people in the know. Only a few weeks ago, Ross Lyon was waxing lyrical about how highly he rates him.

Talk is cheap, I am sure plenty of old timers have been in the rooms telling them their war stories, hasn't worked, never will.

Agree. Maclure must be some kind of poster boy for disgruntled keyboard warriors. Lots of talk, most of it pseudo "tough talk", yet zero action to back it up, and zero accountability. If he reckons he has the answers, why doesn't he roll his sleeves up and get to work, instead of bitching in the media, which does nothing to help ? He captures the groundswell of people who want their grievances heard, but offers nothing except shallow platitudes and empty cliches.

.................................................

Teague made an interesting point post match about being hurt by players trying too hard and being sucked into the contest is a big part of the recent results.. ..............................

Then folks on here complain that we apply no pressure and continually sag off the opposition.

Then folks on here complain that we apply no pressure and continually sag off the opposition.

We're the worst pressure side in the comp. Champion data backs this up.

We're the worst pressure side in the comp. Champion data backs this up.

Are those figures for this season ?

Are those figures for this season ?

I saw them a couple of weeks ago and it was for this season but this has been a common theme for a few years now.

I saw them a couple of weeks ago and it was for this season but this has been a common theme for a few years now.

Thanks. I don't suppose you have a link ? I'd be keen to see them myself.

We're the worst pressure side in the comp. Champion data backs this up.

The stats are never defined the way people think, and not always defined or used the same way by all clubs, so you have to be careful when comparing club comments against a 3rd party service.

Thanks. I don't suppose you have a link ? I'd be keen to see them myself.

I saw it on TV but I can try to find.

I saw it on TV but I can try to find.

That's ok. No need to waste your time. I'm sure one of the episodes of Pure Footy has covered this.

The stats are never defined the way people think, and not always defined or used the same way by all clubs, so you have to be careful when comparing club comments against a 3rd party service.

What are you saying?

What are you saying?

For example, what is a bare minimum pressure act in your opinion, approaching a player within 5m, 3m or a tackle?

Perhaps you've got defenders that need to run and jump at the footy, so they are coached to hang back a bit, or a defender that likes body on body you stand them shoulder to shoulder, those get categorised differently.

When does a pressure act count, how far away from the ball is the act defined, are your players coached to move early or late? There is no right answer, it's just a team system.

Secondly, most stats depend on team tactics, play a long kicking game and your team has less of everything. Win the inside clearances and your club is probably low on tackles, lose clearances and the same may be high!

Richmond have been the pressure kings for the last few years, Hawthorn before that.

Conclusion:

High Pressure = Success
Low Pressure = Us

Bolton used to talk incessantly about being defined by pressure. I wonder if Teague still carries with him the mindset of a forwards coach ? Lots of high scoring, everything else a mere afterthought ?

Keith Miller's wartime exploits were to give him a greater sense of perspective when he returned to the sports field. When asked many years later by Michael Parkinson, about pressure in cricket, Miller responded: "Pressure is a Messerschmitt up your arse, playing cricket is not".

I've never forgotten that and it's equally relevant today.

Richmond have been the pressure kings for the last few years, Hawthorn before that.

Conclusion:

High Pressure = Success
Low Pressure = Us

High pressure to me reflects the real desire to win. Being able to really apply that pressure in critical periods of the game and to resist opposition pressure when it is applied is what the really professional teams can do.

I'd like to know Murphy's pressure stats.

Bolton used to talk incessantly about being defined by pressure. I wonder if Teague still carries with him the mindset of a forwards coach ? Lots of high scoring, everything else a mere afterthought ?

The TT has also talked of being defined by pressure. I think it safe to assume he's moved on from any comfortable thinking afforded to him as an assistant coach. I doubt our issues are the senior coach, alone.

We put much of our faith in a rebuild! Then recruited too many duds, failed to attract A graders and the development of the rest was very suss. Then surrounded a 'thin' list with suss assistants. Then the commercial reality of getting sh1te broadcast times due to failure and a dour game plan (BB - minimize damage) so decided to suck up to the AFL with a 'pretty' and exciting brand of attacking footy to get better broadcast times, but did so with fundamentally the same group of assistant coaches!!! In hindsight, doomed to failure.

For about the 3rd time yesterday I heard a recently retired player criticize our poor 'transition' (Bartel). And our poor 'connect' is there for all to see and has been for, literally, years. Not getting reward for effort must be bloody demoralising for the players, yet, yesterday, you could not question their effort.

Teague needs to be defined by wins or he won't have a job. Im not an advocate of sacking him or any other coach mid year but if we lose to Hawthorn then it's going to get uncomfortable for him and have the club back in chaos and people wanting a quick fix which doesn't exist.

The draw we have had has done us no favours.  You try to build momentum, only to bump into the top 5 sides in the first 9 rounds.  If we'd had a run of North-Adel-Haw games (like Syd) and got some confidence and game flow, we'd probably be 6-3 and sitting in the top 6.   

We're not miles away, and we are not getting blown away.  We have three winnable games before the bye.  With a bit of luck, we get back to 6-6, and Charlie comes back, TDK has hit the ground running, and Martin and Fisher top it off.

Well, I can dream, can't I?

The draw we have had has done us no favours.  You try to build momentum, only to bump into the top 5 sides in the first 9 rounds.  If we'd had a run of North-Adel-Haw games (like Syd) and got some confidence and game flow, we'd probably be 6-3 and sitting in the top 6.   

We're not miles away, and we are not getting blown away.  We have three winnable games before the bye.  With a bit of luck, we get back to 6-6, and Charlie comes back, TDK has hit the ground running, and Martin and Fisher top it off.

Well, I can dream, can't I?

No easy games now apart from Nth.. I would have had Dogs and Dees as winnable when the season started.
Sydney at home will be tough, WC we might be a chance given they are away from home.

The TT has also talked of being defined by pressure. I think it safe to assume he's moved on from any comfortable thinking afforded to him as an assistant coach. I doubt our issues are the senior coach, alone.

We put much of our faith in a rebuild! Then recruited too many duds, failed to attract A graders and the development of the rest was very suss. Then surrounded a 'thin' list with suss assistants. Then the commercial reality of getting sh1te broadcast times due to failure and a dour game plan (BB - minimize damage) so decided to suck up to the AFL with a 'pretty' and exciting brand of attacking footy to get better broadcast times, but did so with fundamentally the same group of assistant coaches!!! In hindsight, doomed to failure.

For about the 3rd time yesterday I heard a recently retired player criticize our poor 'transition' (Bartel). And our poor 'connect' is there for all to see and has been for, literally, years. Not getting reward for effort must be bloody demoralising for the players, yet, yesterday, you could not question their effort.

I can't say I've ever heard Teague talk about being defined by pressure, but happy to concede I missed it.

The transition and connection becomes harder and harder to achieve when you have 60+ list changes and a few coaching changes over a short period of time. It's hardly surprising we look like blokes that haven't played much together.

The draw we have had has done us no favours.  You try to build momentum, only to bump into the top 5 sides in the first 9 rounds.  If we'd had a run of North-Adel-Haw games (like Syd) and got some confidence and game flow, we'd probably be 6-3 and sitting in the top 6.   

We're not miles away, and we are not getting blown away.  We have three winnable games before the bye.  With a bit of luck, we get back to 6-6, and Charlie comes back, TDK has hit the ground running, and Martin and Fisher top it off.

Well, I can dream, can't I?

Yep, you sure can dream... but the points you raise actually are true and have merit, IMHO.

We're a chance in each of the games before the bye. But... we do have personnel issues.

Out of form - Casboult, Gibbons, Cripps, Newnes, Williams, SPS & the game has passed Murphy. Pitto is an honest toiler, but hardly a ruck weapon.

Injured/unavailable/coming back from injury - JSOS, McGovern, TDK, Kemp, Carroll, Marchbank, Fisher, now Cuningham, Charlie, Philp, Martin, McDonald.

Not coming on as hoped/expected - Dow, LOB, Kennedy, Willo & Setterfield.

Makes for depressing reading.

As much as I don't don't like 'what ifs'... what if The TT had our best, say, 28, to pick from each week?

When Plowman, Owies, Cottrell, Casboult, Murphy, Parks, Pitto & Fogarty can't break into the senior side... then we know things are improving.

I'd like to know Murphy's pressure stats.

The problem is going to be what you personally think a Pressure Act is! ;D

For Pressure Acts as defined by the AFL Stats Pro Murphy is ranked 9th at Carlton.

Nthmond's Jack Graham is No.1 across the AFL, but he is the only Nthmond player in the Top 50, Carlton's top rated player is Walsh in 14th! So what's the meaning of this, Nthmond are supposed to be the standards bearers but have only 1 player in the Top 50! :)

Be careful how you use stats, and what you think they mean! ;)

We have to be careful putting too much faith in guys coming back from injury.

Some will come back and have an immediate impact in terms improvement.

Others will take a number of games to get going.
For example Charlie may come back firing....but the game is played in a slightly different manner to the one he left.
It may suit him, but he might also take a while to adjust.
From memory his early season form the year he was hurt wasn't outstanding, then he had that break-out 7 goal game just before he was injured.
That game alone is one reason we're looking at him with such hope.

Some returnees  may re-injure themselves in a short space of time (we see lots of instances of that)
We will also continue to have players get injured.

Now throw all those injured players into the mix and it means  a lot of current players will have to make way.
So once again we're presented with the problem of a lack of consistency of personnel.
Players who may be getting comfortable with teammates and structures will have these tossed in the air again.
It will be a new mix and take time to gel.

It's not impossible all this will lead to a significant improvement, but it has to be seen as a bit more of a challenge than just 'getting players back.'

Thanks. I don't suppose you have a link ? I'd be keen to see them myself.

I found this from April 20th

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/wreck-it-ralph-the-carlton-nontacklers-and-zero-pressure-players-letting-down-coach-david-teague/news-story/ce1b6f4e367f6504a4337a28dab6fa7f

Five rounds into a season where Carlton has beaten only injury-hit Fremantle and Gold Coast, they are 18th for pressure and 17th for tackles.

Case in point: Carlton’s co-captain Sam Docherty. He has four tackles in five AFL games.
What he does offensively is lovely — he is elite for disposals, metres-gained, intercept marks and marks.

But even a receiver who sets up the play off the back of packs surely has had enough players randomly intersect his path to record more than four AFL tackles?

Carlton has too many non-tacklers.

Too many zero-pressure players.

Too many players prepared to drift through games with reasonable GPS stats who survive on their strength instead of buying into a team-based tackle-pressure methodology.

Paddy Dow is poor for pressure points and below average for tackles.

Wingman Jack Newnes is below average for pressure points, poor for tackles.

Michael Gibbons is below average for forward half pressure points and below average for tackles.

Will Setterfield is average for pressure points and below average for tackles.

Marc Murphy is below average for forward-half pressure points and below average for tackles.

He has been thrust into a role he is unfamiliar with and probably doesn’t maximise his strengths.

But with robust pressure players such as Jack Martin out of the side, he needs to play as if his life depended on it when he doesn’t have the ball in hand.

Many of us have got sucked into the hype.

Many of us have truly believed that the rebuild was taking shape, with Zac Williams and Adam Saad the cherry on the cake that would finally realise Carlton’s aspirations.

Carlton wants to involve itself in play-on, kick-mark footy that maximises the talents of its list.

But when all goes to hell — as it did with mid-forward connection against Port Adelaide — what does it have to fall back onto to make the game a street fight?

Judging defenders by pressure points is harder given their role, but Jacob Weitering, Lachie Plowman and Docherty are all below average for pressure points.

Sam Walsh is a Looney Tunes Tasmanian Devil, already Carlton’s best player and above average for both pressure points and tackles.

Lachie Fogarty has been quieter after his breakout clash against Fremantle but he never stops trying to apply pressure — 20th in tackles across the competition.

The point is not to play a dour, defensive, stoppage-heavy game.

The Blues have quality ball users, they have a forward line that will thrive with quick ball movement.

But so do Melbourne and Sydney, who have found a better balance of quicksilver ball movement that is complemented by extreme pressure.

Carlton fans will delight in days like the Round 3 Fremantle clash at Marvel Stadium, when the rival midfield is so inept they bask in 29 scoring shots from 64 inside 50s.

What they really want is their players to have a crack when the going gets tough.

The pressure point index is built on someone’s pressure acts, with the physical acts worth roughly double the implied pressure acts.

If that sounds like mumbo-jumbo, it should be renamed the Have-A-Crack meter.

And on that score, Carlton holds a familiar position as the wooden spooner once more.


CARLTON’S CONCERN

Points against

86.0
Rank 13th

Opp goals per inside 50 %

24.3%
Rank 15th

Points from turnover diff

-9.8
Rank 15th

Opp pts from defensive half

36.2
Rank 14th

D50 to inside 50 %

18.1%
Rank 18th

Pressure factor

169
Rank 18th

Thanks mbb. Leaving aside the standard Fox media guff, there's interesting info there.

Useful Stats are at;

https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Discover
https://www.afl.com.au/stats/team-rankings?CompSeason=20&GameWeeks=-1

Both can be customised. Use the Discover button for customising players stats, and the My Rankings Table for Team stats customisations.

You'll note Carlton is the lowest Disposal team in the competition, something fans need to be very aware of when comparing all other stats.

Useful Stats are at;

https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Discover
https://www.afl.com.au/stats/team-rankings?CompSeason=20&GameWeeks=-1

Both can be customised. Use the Discover button for customising players stats, and the My Rankings Table for Team stats customisations.

That's where I find all my pittonet hits to advantage stats.  ;)

That's where I find all my pittonet hits to advantage stats.  ;)

Like I wrote, be very careful how you use stats, what is "To Advantage"? ;)

Like I wrote, be very careful how you use stats, what is "To Advantage"? ;)

Sure, but when pittonet has 4x what his opponent has, it's pretty clear who did better in the ruck contests don't you think?

Sure, but when pittonet has 4x what his opponent has, it's pretty clear who did better in the ruck contests don't you think?

Not at all, the replay exposes the folly of purely trusting the numbers.

Fwiw; I thought Pittonet did OK against Gawn in the centre, but was soundly smashed by how much influence Gawn had around the ground and in general play. Gawn is a different class of ruck.

Funny, I thought this week things were not too bad, better in some areas than the week before. But our coach stated the exact opposite. he thought we were worse across the board this week than against the Dogs. I suppose for him it's all about structures and instructions versus the numbers, and he said we didn't implement the plan this week. It's why we do have to be cognisant of instructions when judging a guy like Pittonet, and why I stated it might not be 100% his fault he is not hitting team-mates with taps.

Thanks mbb. Leaving aside the standard Fox media guff, there's interesting info there.

Either way we don't defend well, there is no conspiracy against us. The stats don't lie, the scores don't lie and the ladder doesn't lie.

Pittonet is the least of our problems, not sure why this is getting so much air time?

the game has passed Murphy.

I only saw a bit more than half the game - but from what i saw, i thought murphy looked composed and used it well, going into fwd 50.  considering this is one of our biggest concerns, then at least he is bringing something to the table.  i know his work the other way is terrible, but i think he is far from our biggest issue

The stats don't lie,

Exactly, but that doesn't mean they mean what you think they mean! ;)

Either way we don't defend well, there is no conspiracy against us. The stats don't lie, the scores don't lie and the ladder doesn't lie.

I don't deny any of those things. My personal preference is to have that information presented without all the editorializing and goading that seems to be Murdoch's stock in trade.

I only saw a bit more than half the game - but from what i saw, i thought murphy looked composed and used it well, going into fwd 50.  considering this is one of our biggest concerns, then at least he is bringing something to the table.  i know his work the other way is terrible, but i think he is far from our biggest issue

Agreed, sMurph was fine 1st game back from injury, Cripps was fine this week as well. But some fans are still potting them across the board, the fans have "decided" and once they have "decided" it's over and the Fat Lady is singing.

Same applies to our coaches for that matter!

A nice example of this is fans have "decided" we should be playing Durdin and drafting Crocker, but in last week's VFL loss those two were basically missing for at least half the game. How does going missing for half a game at VFL level translate to AFL selection form?

Late to the party again! Tortured myself and watched the whole game yesterday and it really is just another week, but same result.

I too am getting frustrated watching Teague sit emotionless in the coaches box and trying nothing when things aren't working. Yes, injuries have restricted who we can have out there but a lack of depth in key areas has killed us again too.

Once again it's Walsh, McKay (who tried hard given how bad his shoulder looked), Curnow (been a warrior and doesn't stop), Weitering and Saad (the one bloke who CAN kick it properly) that keep us in games only to see their hard work completely undone by suburban footy standard skills, terrible decision making and what looked to be not a great deal of desire when we got behind.

Something has to give and I dare say a loss to Hawthorn this week might be the circuit breaker. But where do we go?

As someone else alluded to, some of the selections just boggle. SPS was one of the better players against Essendon after coming on as the medical sub in the first quarter and played in the position that suits him....the midfield. Then he's medical sub last week against the team with arguably the deepest midfield in the competition...and dropped altogether this week. Murphy comes in to take his spot.....a bloke probably in his final season and seemingly being gifted games to get to 300.

I was arguing for Setterfield to come back in but, EB as you suggested earlier in the week, the guy is a good VFL player at that level, but not up to this level. Took one big mark but did nothing else and shirks the contest when he needs to go in hard.

Williams should be embarrassed when he checks his bank account and sees his last pay go in. Now Teague is telling us he's playing without a lot of confidence????? Confident enough to sign up for 5 or 6 years on $900K and confident enough to swan around in bright pink boots.....but he sh#t himself backing into a marking contest in the second quarter yesterday and had a couple of easy tackles broken. He might've got 19 odd possessions but plenty of those were cheap ones that covered about 15m and even a couple of those didn't hit the mark. We've been torched by McGovern on big money deals and failing to deliver and now Williams has picked up the baton and running with it.

Plowman needs a stint in the VFL. How many more half back flankers do we need in the side?

Agree with others, Pittonet can't be blamed for any of this. He cracks in hard at least. He was brought to the club purely as backup for Kreuzer and a developing TDK but has basically been the number one ruckman since round 2 last year.

The fact that we only have two key defenders on the list shows how badly we've planned for the future.

Williams was a very good player before coming to us, now.....heaven help us.

Setterfield, even last year, was looking like he could take the next step or two into a B+/A grader.

He's taken a step alright - back to the VFL.

Gibbons and Newnes weren't giving enough and deserved the demotion (noting Gibbons played for Cuners).

Gibbons 9 touches - not good enough. Play a kid...if Kennedy's papers are stamped. Ramsay the most likely of the mids presently (Kemp and Philp sidelined).

Owies and Parks but had days they'd prefer to forget. Owies had 7 tackles all the same.

But bagels for Jones, Pars and Plowman. How does that work?

Need to persevere with Stocker in the middle....

SPS - still rate him highly but my God he looks almost disinterested.

Surely Nic Newman can give our lot some tips as to what the Swans 'do right'?!!!

Williams was a very good player before coming to us, now.....heaven help us.

Setterfield, even last year, was looking like he could take the next step or two into a B+/A grader.

He's taken a step alright - back to the VFL.

Gibbons and Newnes weren't giving enough and deserved the demotion (noting Gibbons played for Cuners).

Gibbons 9 touches - not good enough. Play a kid...if Kennedy's papers are stamped. Ramsay the most likely of the mids presently (Kemp and Philp sidelined).

Owies and Parks but had days they'd prefer to forget. Owies had 7 tackles all the same.

But bagels for Jones, Pars and Plowman. How does that work?

Need to persevere with Stocker in the middle....

SPS - still rate him highly but my God he looks almost disinterested.

Surely Nic Newman can give our lot some tips as to what the Swans 'do right'?!!!

Probably the concerning thing there is that some players, for whatever reason, aren't playing up to there 2020 level.

A positive in itself is that we have a lot of players seemingly down on form yet we are mic and matching it with almost everyone.

I think Owies is worth persisting with as the small forward. Eddie is in his last season and has been able to play up the ground a bit in recent weeks with Owies there. Owies goes in hard and looks to be a pretty reliable set shot. I doubt he's going to be a 20 possession type player but looks capable of kicking goals when he gets it.

Just read that Kemp is likely to play in the VFL this week. He'll be 4-5 weeks at least away but at 193cm, he could be just what we need down back. Parks has looked shaky in the last couple of weeks.

Eddie hasn't called it a day as yet ... and nor should he.  He stays imo

Parks has looked shaky in the last couple of weeks.

I don't agree he's looked fine to me, what is expected from a 5th gamer?

I don't agree he's looked fine to me, what is expected from a 5th gamer?

Seriously?

He was pushed off the ball with ease, his kicking is ordinary at best. He was bought into the side as an intercept marker, which apart from his first game, I haven't seen. Luke has done two memorable things, the tackle on Lukosius and the tackle on Tippa. Other than that he's been well below par.

Seriously?

He was pushed off the ball with ease, his kicking is ordinary at best. He was bought into the side as an intercept marker, which apart from his first game, I haven't seen. Luke has done two memorable things, the tackle on Lukosius and the tackle on Tippa. Other than that he's been well below par.

Lets see how he responds this week.

Weren't good enough. Still four goals away from matching it with the best sides. It is hard to know how good we are because we never get close to putting our best side on the park. Silvagni, C.Curnow, Martin, Fisher, McGovern, Marchbank, DeKonning all not in the side and we lose Cuningham in the first minute. I think they had a plan for Lever and Cuningham was that plan. Parks had a shocker and Pittonet was dismantled by Gawn. Moving Docherty to the wing was a good move but the backline needs to be stable and moving players in and out does not lead to stability. Melbournes's forward line functioned well but we did force them wide. We don't have enough goal kicking options and we seem to be reviving the late 80's game plan of kicking it to Kernahan in the shape of Harry McKay. we need other options coming at the ball. I thought we won the midfield battle, despite Gawn's dominance, however when they got out they were very damaging. Having Stocker, Setterfield and Fogarty running through there gave us more depth. Once again our field kicking and kicking to the forwards was sub-par, as was our decision making. We either don't get to where we need to be for the next step in the chain or we fail to execute by hitting targets which also brings the whole process undone. I would like to see some of Dow, SPS, Honey and O'Brien in the side to give us more spread, as well as run and carry. Big call out to Big H, I think in the past he has let the physicality to affect him but he was big strong and tough on Sunday.

I think Owies is worth persisting with as the small forward. Eddie is in his last season and has been able to play up the ground a bit in recent weeks with Owies there. Owies goes in hard and looks to be a pretty reliable set shot. I doubt he's going to be a 20 possession type player but looks capable of kicking goals when he gets it.

Just read that Kemp is likely to play in the VFL this week. He'll be 4-5 weeks at least away but at 193cm, he could be just what we need down back. Parks has looked shaky in the last couple of weeks.

Reckon young Kemp might be a tad taller than 193cm....and he's listed 5kg lighter than Parks!

Our recruiting over the last years particularly mids has been woeful
Add some horrible trades recruiting total spuds from other clubs plus giving too long contracts to blokes who don’t deserve them and this is what you get
The coach had a shocker of the week but the club itself is the problem
Starts at board level
I said last year we won’t go anywhere in 2021
Everyone over the moon about Williams and Saad
Saad is one dimensional
Williams is a HBF that’s all he is
Our depth is crap
The club doesn’t seem to have the capacity to actually know where it’s really at
It overrates its list condo
Add gifting games to Murphy is adding insult to injury
But sacking the coach will not solve the club’s problems
The President and Judd departing at the end 2021 might trigger the real change we need

Williams was a good half back flanker who played some handy games as a mid with one of the best midfields in the comp.
Our midfield isnt as good as the star studded GWS lineup and playing on a half back flank with us means a lot of defending and a lot less attacking as Adam Saad can tell him. You add in a sore achillies and Williams is just another average player until we get better players around him.

Setterfield...hard contested footy isnt his go, he has pulled the hand brake a few times and is better suited to tagging or a wing or sitting behind the ball. He wont ever be the player we need to help Cripps but may be handy as depth.
Gibbons...a rookie from the VFL, moneyball depth player, small, lacks a yard of pace and vs the big mids cant handle a midfield role. Better down forward IMO but with Betts, Owies, Martin and Fisher isnt going to be featuring in the future much.
Newnes......done his job, filled in for players like Obrien, Dow, SPS who should have displaced him but are not up to it....dont blame Newnes blame the recruiters. Newnes like Gibbons has held up his end of the bargain, you got what you paid for.....

Fogarty....does most things well but finish, you need your Indians like Fogarty but he wont ever be a chief....

Pittonet...VFL ruck in the main who like Gibbons and Newnes has given value for what he cost. Wont ever be a matchwinner and
was recruited to be a Barnaby French to hold the fort until the cavalry arrived.
Not sure what some expected of him..he is a soldier but wont ever be a General..

This is why getting Ben Crocker will only achieve fill in type results, he will probably kick goals vs the weak teams but wont impact vs the heavyweights.
The messiah in Charlie Curnow will probably be decending very slowly from the summit with a knee brace so as Lods pointed out I wouldnt be expecting miracles or him turning gatorade into wine either..

More than likely we need to head back to the draft table and be big players in trade week and use what commodities we have as trade bait while they still have some value like SPS.
Its not a rebuild required but a reset with an emphasis on bigger bodied harder players who can take and impart pressure better than the fill in types we have recruited..

Williams was a good half back flanker who played some handy games as a mid with one of the best midfields in the comp.
Our midfield isnt as good as the star studded GWS lineup and playing on a half back flank with us means a lot of defending and a lot less attacking as Adam Saad can tell him. You add in a sore achillies and Williams is just another average player until we get better players around him.

Setterfield...hard contested footy isnt his go, he has pulled the hand brake a few times and is better suited to tagging or a wing or sitting behind the ball. He wont ever be the player we need to help Cripps but may be handy as depth.
Gibbons...a rookie from the VFL, moneyball depth player, small, lacks a yard of pace and vs the big mids cant handle a midfield role. Better down forward IMO but with Betts, Owies, Martin and Fisher isnt going to be featuring in the future much.
Newnes......done his job, filled in for players like Obrien, Dow, SPS who should have displaced him but are not up to it....dont blame Newnes blame the recruiters. Newnes like Gibbons has held up his end of the bargain, you got what you paid for.....

Fogarty....does most things well but finish, you need your Indians like Fogarty but he wont ever be a chief....

Pittonet...VFL ruck in the main who like Gibbons and Newnes has given value for what he cost. Wont ever be a matchwinner and
was recruited to be a Barnaby French to hold the fort until the cavalry arrived.
Not sure what some expected of him..he is a soldier but wont ever be a General..

This is why getting Ben Crocker will only achieve fill in type results, he will probably kick goals vs the weak teams but wont impact vs the heavyweights.
The messiah in Charlie Curnow will probably be decending very slowly from the summit with a knee brace so as Lods pointed out I wouldnt be expecting miracles or him turning gatorade into wine either..

More than likely we need to head back to the draft table and be big players in trade week and use what commodities we have as trade bait while they still have some value like SPS.
Its not a rebuild required but a reset with an emphasis on bigger bodied harder players who can take and impart pressure better than the fill in types we have recruited..

Williams was a good half back flanker who played some handy games as a mid with one of the best midfields in the comp.
Our midfield isnt as good as the star studded GWS lineup and playing on a half back flank with us means a lot of defending and a lot less attacking as Adam Saad can tell him. You add in a sore achillies and Williams is just another average player until we get better players around him.

Setterfield...hard contested footy isnt his go, he has pulled the hand brake a few times and is better suited to tagging or a wing or sitting behind the ball. He wont ever be the player we need to help Cripps but may be handy as depth.
Gibbons...a rookie from the VFL, moneyball depth player, small, lacks a yard of pace and vs the big mids cant handle a midfield role. Better down forward IMO but with Betts, Owies, Martin and Fisher isnt going to be featuring in the future much.
Newnes......done his job, filled in for players like Obrien, Dow, SPS who should have displaced him but are not up to it....dont blame Newnes blame the recruiters. Newnes like Gibbons has held up his end of the bargain, you got what you paid for.....

Fogarty....does most things well but finish, you need your Indians like Fogarty but he wont ever be a chief....

Pittonet...VFL ruck in the main who like Gibbons and Newnes has given value for what he cost. Wont ever be a matchwinner and
was recruited to be a Barnaby French to hold the fort until the cavalry arrived.
Not sure what some expected of him..he is a soldier but wont ever be a General..

This is why getting Ben Crocker will only achieve fill in type results, he will probably kick goals vs the weak teams but wont impact vs the heavyweights.
The messiah in Charlie Curnow will probably be decending very slowly from the summit with a knee brace so as Lods pointed out I wouldnt be expecting miracles or him turning gatorade into wine either..

More than likely we need to head back to the draft table and be big players in trade week and use what commodities we have as trade bait while they still have some value like SPS.
Its not a rebuild required but a reset with an emphasis on bigger bodied harder players who can take and impart pressure better than the fill in types we have recruited..

All very very well said!

Reckon we're one gun mid away from getting it together - had hoped it would be Dow or Setterfield.

Kemp? As a Kouta type utility/mid? Maybe.

Hunter would have been good, ditto Oliver albeit different players.

Merrett is certainly something we lack - zippy, finds the pill, bit of an accumulator too, gets it inside 50 quickly - perfect for Charlie and Harry.

Not sure he goes missing too often - see below, consistent numbers this year - and stacks up well statistically with Josh Kelly.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=6&playerStatus2=A&tid2=25&type=A&pid1=3943&pid2=3919&fid1=C&fid2=C

Reckon we're one gun mid away from getting it together - had hoped it would be Dow or Setterfield.

Kemp? As a Kouta type utility/mid? Maybe.

Hunter would have been good, ditto Oliver albeit different players.

Merrett is certainly something we lack - zippy, finds the pill, bit of an accumulator too, gets it inside 50 quickly - perfect for Charlie and Harry.

Not sure he goes missing too often - see below, consistent numbers this year - and stacks up well statistically with Josh Kelly.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=6&playerStatus2=A&tid2=25&type=A&pid1=3943&pid2=3919&fid1=C&fid2=C

Id go after Libba although doesn't fit our age profile...yet

Id go after Libba

We need a young Libba......dirty, big balls, manic attack on the ball

We need a young Libba......dirty, big balls, manic attack on the ball

I just added he doesn't fit our age profile, he is the type of kent we need in the guts.

I just added he doesn't fit our age profile, he is the type of kent we need in the guts.

I would have added with a cheap looking Homer Simpson tatt too.....you have to be tough to rock some of the child like artwork he has on his body, ditto Josh Bruce...both must have gone to the bloke in the pub carpark to get those done..

ps we should have a red hot crack at the Bont. RFA.

Cam Guthrie is UFA.

Hewett and Parker at the Swans - both RFA.

I would have added with a cheap looking Homer Simpson tatt too.....you have to be tough to rock some of the child like artwork he has on his body, ditto Josh Bruce...both must have gone to the bloke in the pub carpark to get those done..

I think they do them themselves. I know Castagna from Rich does his own.

ps we should have a red hot crack at the Bont. RFA.

Cam Guthrie is UFA.

Hewett and Parker at the Swans - both RFA.

Bont wont go anywhere, wouldn't waste one iota of time. All the others most definitely.

I reckon we should go after Ben McKay. ;D
Stick him alongside Harry in the forward line (in Harry's jumper...no-one will know the difference.) ;)
He can run decoy with the opposition number 1 defender while the real Harry runs riot in Ben's jumper.

(It will work...I've even confused myself ::) )

I reckon we should go after Ben McKay. ;D
Stick him alongside Harry in the forward line (in Harry's jumper...no-one will know the difference.) ;)
He can run decoy with the opposition number 1 defender while the real Harry runs riot in Ben's jumper.

(It will work...I've even confused myself ::) )

Doppleganger!  :D

Gott in Himmel vat a tactician!

Not sure if this is been mentioned yet in the thread but i just heard that Teague in his after match presser said matched up Cunningham to play as a defensive forward on 1.95cm Lever as he said he thought Cunningham could match him in the air.

So in already light midfield he takes one of our main runners in Cunningham out and thinks its a good idea to use him defensively.

Then he said when he went down they decided to use Owies. Have you ever heard of such stupidity. 

I'm really starting to wonder if Teague is the man we need at the moment.

ps we should have a red hot crack at the Bont. RFA.

Cam Guthrie is UFA.

Hewett and Parker at the Swans - both RFA.

Seriously some posters are desperate and clueless
Why do you think they would want to come to Carlton
And how about we actually pick more decent kids and development
Then there is the salary cap with little wriggle room

Not sure if this is been mentioned yet in the thread but i just heard that Teague in his after match presser said matched up Cunningham to play as a defensive forward on 1.95cm Lever as he said he thought Cunningham could match him in the air.

So in already light midfield he takes one of our main runners in Cunningham out and thinks its a good idea to use him defensively.

Then he said when he went down they decided to use Owies. Have you ever heard of such stupidity. 

I'm really starting to wonder if Teague is the man we need at the moment.

I did hear that and thought it was a very strange move, no way could Cuningham match Lever in the air and Owies would have no hope either and I remember Lever taking a mark or two easily over Owies.
I would have shifted Parks onto Lever who was having a shocker down back and just told him  to spoil and take Lever out of the play and try and get a win from a loss in that matchup.

Reckon we're one gun mid away from getting it together - had hoped it would be Dow or Setterfield.

Kemp? As a Kouta type utility/mid? Maybe.

Hunter would have been good, ditto Oliver albeit different players.

Merrett is certainly something we lack - zippy, finds the pill, bit of an accumulator too, gets it inside 50 quickly - perfect for Charlie and Harry.

Not sure he goes missing too often - see below, consistent numbers this year - and stacks up well statistically with Josh Kelly.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=6&playerStatus2=A&tid2=25&type=A&pid1=3943&pid2=3919&fid1=C&fid2=C

According to Champion Data we have the second
Worst midfield
One guy won’t fix it

Merrett will want big dollars, think Matthew Lloyd said he is worth 850k a season....
Bont...no hope, will be a Dog for life.
Cam Guthrie loves the Cats and has his brother on the list also which gives the Cats some leverage so I'd say no hope there either and I reckon the AA Guthrie is worth more than Merrett.
Luke Parker...bit late, see Hannebury.
Hewitt...handy but no star.

I'd look at Cerra  from Freo, Sholl from the Crows, Brander, Duggan from WC, and I'd throw some money at Caddy, Castagna  from Richmond..

Then there is the salary cap with little wriggle room

You don't know that for fact. 

ps we should have a red hot crack at the Bont. RFA.

Cam Guthrie is UFA.

Hewett and Parker at the Swans - both RFA.

Definitely Guthrie.

Where's laj?

I need him to fill me in on Murphy, Plowman, Jones and SPS and how they've been playing. I'm sure they're killing it...

You don't know that for fact. 

We can assume that’s the case surely
Williams 850000
Martin 600000
McGovern 700000
Saad 500000 plus
Cripps 800000
Curnow 600000
The added problem is McKay
He is on  around 400000
He will be getting close to double that next yearbecause his contract is up
In relation to the first three names we are not getting bang for the buck of course Charlie has been injured
WC and Freo don’t have much wriggle room either
Freo in particular over pay some of their so called stars
Rory Lobbe

Martin will be on less than 400k for the next 3 seasons as the contract was front loaded to pay him 2 million for his first 2 years.

Martin will be on less than 400k for the next 3 seasons as the contract was front loaded to pay him 2 million for his first 2 years.

I have read that Martin was in the top 5 paid players in 2020
Ignore COVID-19 and he would have got a million
The next 4 years starting from 2021 it’s 600000 a season
Not bad for a cameo soft injury prone lazy guy who can’t play midfield
Saad actually is on 650000
Face it the club has shot itself in the foot once again

His salary was reported as an average of 600k over 5 years that was to be front loaded.

His salary was reported as an average of 600k over 5 years that was to be front loaded.

Definitely front loaded so they could fit Saad and Williams into calculations
But I think it’s more than 400000
The problem is McKay for next year
That’s why free agency  can bite you on the arse
Of course Carlton should know this🤪

I have read that Martin was in the top 5 paid players in 2020
Ignore COVID-19 and he would have got a million
The next 4 years starting from 2021 it’s 600000 a season
Not bad for a cameo soft injury prone lazy guy who can’t play midfield
Saad actually is on 650000
Face it the club has shot itself in the foot once again

If you think Martin's soft (or lazy) you really are clueless.

If you think Martin's soft (or lazy) you really are clueless.

You see the perception is this guy is a gun
Can you tell me his individual achievements
This is his 9 th season
In 8 and a half seasons he has finished 3 rd in a GC B+F and was a rising star in 2014
That’s it
Can you tell me a game last year where he went into  the midfield and made a sustained difference
Give me a specific game
I’ll give you a specific game
Against Brisbane second quarter last game of the year CHB pulled out of a contest
This after hardly touching it in a game where a top team was heating it up not to mention Simmos last game a guy of similar size who never pulled out of a contest in over 300 games given by recollection of events

Speaking about shirking the contest no one wants to talk about Parks' auskick moment on Sunday?

Just on Casboult, this post is a from his insta account, in an industry that's so money driven, there aren't many players who love their club like the big fella does.

These moments right here are what really matters. My proudest moment so far in the 12 years I’ve been playing for the club I followed as a child. Walking through the banner with my 3 children and having my wife, family and friends all supporting me on Sunday night is a moment I’ll never forget. I’m so grateful for my team mates, coaches, staff, family, friends, supporters, children and wife for the messages, calls and support over the weekend and always. I’ll never stop loving playing for the best club in the comp. Looking forward to getting fitter, stronger and at my best for the rest of the season. Go blues

I'm with Keogh on Martin.... On big coin,  often injured and gives us teases only.   Lit it up in his first game,  then glimpses only.
  Another inconsistent player,  the last thing we need.

Can't wait for his supporters to come on and crap all over this but he's another "mercurial type" that has delivered F-all when it's bankable,  meat and three veg consistency we desperately need.  Seriously undelivered.

Then we've got a bloke on one leg,  getting a pittance,  yet he drags his body out there even through he knows he can hardly contribute but there's nobody else.

Great post GTC....hasn't been a lotta love for Levi this year but I still think we need him out there at the moment. No other tall forwards and he can still take a mark and kick a goal as he did on the weekend. No other backup ruckman either until TDK comes back and even then, we still need another marking forward. Watching the game on the weekend and realising we're bereft of talls....yes, injuries haven't helped, but that there is some diabolical recruiting and list management.

Just on Casboult, this post is a from his insta account, in an industry that's so money driven, there aren't many players who love their club like the big fella does.

These moments right here are what really matters. My proudest moment so far in the 12 years I’ve been playing for the club I followed as a child. Walking through the banner with my 3 children and having my wife, family and friends all supporting me on Sunday night is a moment I’ll never forget. I’m so grateful for my team mates, coaches, staff, family, friends, supporters, children and wife for the messages, calls and support over the weekend and always. I’ll never stop loving playing for the best club in the comp. Looking forward to getting fitter, stronger and at my best for the rest of the season. Go blues

A few years back, his wife made an even more impressionable tweet about how the vitriol that gets aimed at him on social media means that she would never want her kids playing footy.

Even so, Levi fronts up each and every week, and does his best (albeit we would love him to be better).

Toughness comes in a variety of forms.  The Carlton football club is the toughest gig in football because we think we are better than we are, and then under value what we have.

Spot on Thry....had a discussion with a Carlton mate a couple of years ago and he was suggesting we trade Casboult out....my point was he's worth way more to us that what we'd actually get in a trade anyway so keep him. I remember he played back a few years ago when Jones went down and missed games and did a serviceable job.

Results from the past two weeks

Round 9
Western Bulldogs vs Carlton
Played at WB's Preferred Ground
107 to 91  WB's by 16 points
"Carlton are crap"

Round 10
Port Power vs Western Bullies
Player at Power's Cauldron
 77 to 96  WB by 19 points
"Western Bullies are a bloody good side."

Just sayin'.

Levi Casboult has got everything out of his body in terms of contributing to the club
You cannot knock his efforts

Levi Casboult has got everything out of his body in terms of contributing to the club
You cannot knock his efforts

Just shows, if you have the desire you can improve, you can change!

I had to laugh at the weekend, BT talked up Meat's kicking for goal improvement, but in an earlier broadcast this year BT can be heard goading the Carlton fans as Meat lined up for a shot 20m out!

Spot on Thry....had a discussion with a Carlton mate a couple of years ago and he was suggesting we trade Casboult out....my point was he's worth way more to us that what we'd actually get in a trade anyway so keep him. I remember he played back a few years ago when Jones went down and missed games and did a serviceable job.

I would have played Levi as the third tall last week. Melbourne have 3 tall forwards and we only thrashed 2 of them. Playing Levi on Weidemann would have been an invitation for Levi to take 20 marks and really hurt Melbourne.

It would also have forces us NOT to bomb the ball into the forward line, which would have given our small forwards more of a chance. But we don't open pathways for people to lead into. We usually ignore the leading forward unless he is 80 m from goal.

Watched the tape this morning.   There's been a bit of discussion recently about our lack of physicality and it was really noticeable,  especially around marking contests.   We're clearly too clean around the contest and dont push the boundaries.
  For example, towards the end of the second quarter Hunt took a mark from a short pass (and subsequently drilled a critical goal) which Murphy didn't exactly extend himself to intercept.  One of those moments whereby a bit more was clearly required.  Setterfield is another who gets out marked across half back bit too easily for my taste and not a defender's A-hole .... Nice footballer but that attitude won't win one on one contests, which is a defender's job description.

Setterfield is another who gets out marked across half back bit too easily for my taste and not a defender's A-hole .... Nice footballer but that attitude won't win one on one contests, which is a defender's job description.

Isn't this what many of us are writing about, the use of players away from their best position?

It's like we forgotten for all other players what getting Jones into his right position did!

Isn't this what many of us are writing about, the use of players away from their best position?

It's like we forgotten for all other players what getting Jones into his right position did!

We've been doing it for years, slow learners.