There are probably a lot of reasons for the result on Thursday night.
The reality is we haven't been playing well...we could quite easily have been 0-5 (even the North game looked shaky at times)
We probably have a few issues that need addressing.
Attitude, structure, injuries and depth, speed, Plan B's etc all get a mention.
On weeks like this one even our strengths come under the microscope.
We look at them and think they might not be quite as good as what we thought they were.
One of the ones I've noticed is a lack of strength.
It's manifesting itself in two ways.
1) being pushed, too easily, out of contests.
2) failing to make tackles stick
We have a couple of big guys but even they often find themselves out manouvered.
We also have more than our fair share of lightly framed guys, some with a heap of talent, who are sometimes too easily run through or pushed aside.
A loss will often bring these things into focus, and on Thursday we were clearly out muscled.
These things are always a bit of a balancing act...speed and endurance emphasised over size, strength and power.
I'm not sure we have the balance right because we seem to be lacking on both sides.
Obviously it's just one aspect....
What do others see as the major areas of concerns...our weaknesses?
What are our strengths...and are they as good as we thought?
I've been on this forum for about 17 years, and right from day one I was reading about how the boys are lightweights, softies etc. In that period, we have turned over hundreds of players. Moreover, every single position of note in the club, whether inside or outside the football department, has undergone numerous personnel changes. President, CEO, Board members, Head Of Football, Head of High performance, list manager, recruiting manager, senior coach, assistant coaches, all changed hands many times. And yet, despite all that, we supposedly still have these issues. Are they real or imagined ?
Our current senior coach was IMO, the toughest and most physically intimidating player of his generation. Not only is Voss unable to turn these Navy Blue marshmallows into men of steel, but he sent packing the one player who supposedly embodies the values he holds dearest ? I think not.
If you go back to the first half of 2022, we were the Brutal Blues, known for toughness around the ball and around the contest.
Lods, I've taken your post and twisted it and exaggerated a little, simply to make a point. Whatever happened against the Crows, I don't believe size or weakness had much to do with it.
I should also add that blokes like Pittonet, McKay, Weitering, Cripps, Acres and others are more than adequate size for their respective positions. Of course young blokes like Hollands, De Koning and others are still growing and filling out, but that’s to be expected IMO.
Its those bloody White jumpers.
O0 O0 O0
I should also add that blokes like Pittonet, McKay, Weitering, Cripps, Acres and others are more than adequate size for their respective positions. Of course young blokes like Hollands, De Koning and others are still growing and filling out, but that’s to be expected IMO.
They are big guys...but do they use that size well?
When Cripps is on he's a beast, but apart from him???
Curnow can (when he wants to)
Kennedy can
But the Adelaide big bodies seemed to be all over our big guys....and yep, that probably is a reflection of the play (and desire to win the ball), but there has to be an element of strength involved.
We probably shouldn't look at how some players might develop because certain body types will never pack on the muscle.
I've been on this forum for about 17 years, and right from day one I was reading about how the boys are lightweights, softies etc. In that period, we have turned over hundreds of players. Moreover, every single position of note in the club, whether inside or outside the football department, has undergone numerous personnel changes. President, CEO, Board members, Head Of Football, Head of High performance, list manager, recruiting manager, senior coach, assistant coaches, all changed hands many times. And yet, despite all that, we supposedly still have these issues. Are they real or imagined ?
Our current senior coach was IMO, the toughest and most physically intimidating player of his generation. Not only is Voss unable to turn these Navy Blue marshmallows into men of steel, but he sent packing the one player who supposedly embodies the values he holds dearest ? I think not.
If you go back to the first half of 2022, we were the Brutal Blues, known for toughness around the ball and around the contest.
Lods, I've taken your post and twisted it and exaggerated a little, simply to make a point. Whatever happened against the Crows, I don't believe size or weakness had much to do with it.
Bravo
I've been on this forum for about 17 years, and right from day one I was reading about how the boys are lightweights, softies etc. In that period, we have turned over hundreds of players. Moreover, every single position of note in the club, whether inside or outside the football department, has undergone numerous personnel changes. President, CEO, Board members, Head Of Football, Head of High performance, list manager, recruiting manager, senior coach, assistant coaches, all changed hands many times. And yet, despite all that, we supposedly still have these issues. Are they real or imagined ?
Our current senior coach was IMO, the toughest and most physically intimidating player of his generation. Not only is Voss unable to turn these Navy Blue marshmallows into men of steel, but he sent packing the one player who supposedly embodies the values he holds dearest ? I think not.
If you go back to the first half of 2022, we were the Brutal Blues, known for toughness around the ball and around the contest.
Lods, I've taken your post and twisted it and exaggerated a little, simply to make a point. Whatever happened against the Crows, I don't believe size or weakness had much to do with it.
It's not the full story by any means.
It's a component....and maybe it's because I've seen a few passages of play in recent weeks where I've given it the old "weak as piss" effort...and not just against Adelaide....and sadly from some of our best.
So that may just be me focussing on it in my own mind.
I'm not worried about size, it's appetite and lack of conditioning that worries me. We seem to be having one of those years where we can't quite get going.
I didn't add this before but the fact that we don't seem to be smart is a bigger worry than anything else.
One thing the pies tend to do well is be smart with their play which makes being physically good not so important. We need to learn that.
I'm not worried about size, it's appetite and lack of conditioning that worries me. We seem to be having one of those years where we can't quite get going.
The boys have been reading the press about themselves ::)
The cows demonstrated how to kick to advantage; we don't know the meaning of the term or have the skill to execute.
Whatever happened against the Crows, I don't believe size or weakness had much to do with it.
And yet, if a team is prepared to match our apparent physical capabilities they can force a split in the midfield dominance, and we are unable to match them on the outside when they win their fair share.
We can't be reliant on winning the midfield to win the game, there are weeks were it simply won't happen and the rest of the team has to pick up the slack. We must find a way to diminish the oppositions run and spread when our midfield is less than dominant.
A lot of fans bag the shizen out of Owies and McGovern, but they were both severely missed last night for their ability to cover ground and close up space. What they do is not appreciated by the ball watchers
And yet, if a team is prepared to match our apparent physical capabilities they can force a split in the midfield dominance, and we are unable to match them on the outside when they win their fair share.
We can't be reliant on winning the midfield to win the game, there are weeks were it simply won't happen and the rest of the team has to pick up the slack. We must find a way to diminish the oppositions run and spread when our midfield is less than dominant.
A lot of fans bag the shizen out of Owies and McGovern, but they were both severely missed last night for their ability to cover ground and close up space. What they do is not appreciated by the ball watchers
Sadly, pinning any hopes on Gov & Owies may not yield much fruit as they're both rather injury prone. And, as you mentioned in another piece you wrote, Motlop & small Durds aren't delivering enough from small forwards. Then there's our third tall... but I agree, questioning
jsos does not go down well.
And yet, if a team is prepared to match our apparent physical capabilities they can force a split in the midfield dominance, and we are unable to match them on the outside when they win their fair share.
We can't be reliant on winning the midfield to win the game, there are weeks were it simply won't happen and the rest of the team has to pick up the slack. We must find a way to diminish the oppositions run and spread when our midfield is less than dominant.
A lot of fans bag the shizen out of Owies and McGovern, but they were both severely missed last night for their ability to cover ground and close up space. What they do is not appreciated by the ball watchers
The problem is, and has been, that we are reliant on our midfield either winning or at least breaking even and when we are in that position other players lift and we look good.
However, when the midfield is losing we simply do not have players who can take the pressure off the midfield and we go to pieces, as against Adelaide.
Part of the problem is the supposedly good players permanently on the injured list, and added to that is the number of players who are just not up to the standard required to play top 8 football.
Crows played us the same way as last time....Walker and Fogarty walked through our tackles which were limp and lame, they outbodied our defenders who didnt want contact.
Keays put Saad off his game as well because he is a stronger unit...other teams will play us the same way now so it will be interesting to see if we show a stiff upper lip or fold up.
eg..We saw Rankine trying to upset our players, he isnt Cam Zurhaar or Barry Hall but apart from Cripps we gave a weak response and a green light early in the game we were ok with being bullied.
Someone other than Cripps needed to fly the flag harder and show Rankine that BS wasnt on this game and send him a message.
Same with those mental midgets Walker and Fogarty...it would be stacks on every time they got the footy...Id rather lose the game going down swinging than be bullied by Neanderthals like Walker, Fogarty and be punked by a knob like Rankine.
Doesnt mean sly whacking opposition players just gang tackling and bumping with vigour making every contest one where they will have to earn a possession and wear some pain.
One passage of play where Walker outmarked Young was just so weak, he outbodied him with strength and then motored away for a goal. Young is 200cm/100kg...you dont let players do that to you when you are that size.....
That just set the tone for the rest of the game and Young needs a lesson from Voss on how to contest properly.....
Crows played us the same way as last time....Walker and Fogarty walked through our tackles which were limp and lame, they outbodied our defenders who didnt want contact.
Keays put Saad off his game as well because he is a stronger unit...other teams will play us the same way now so it will be interesting to see if we show a stiff upper lip or fold up.
eg..We saw Rankine trying to upset our players, he isnt Cam Zurhaar or Barry Hall but apart from Cripps we gave a weak response and a green light early in the game we were ok with being bullied.
Someone other than Cripps needed to fly the flag harder and show Rankine that BS wasnt on this game and send him a message.
Same with those mental midgets Walker and Fogarty...it would be stacks on every time they got the footy...Id rather lose the game going down swinging than be bullied by Neanderthals like Walker, Fogarty and be punked by a knob like Rankine.
Doesnt mean sly whacking opposition players just gang tackling and bumping with vigour making every contest one where they will have to earn a possession and wear some pain.
One passage of play where Walker outmarked Young was just so weak, he outbodied him with strength and then motored away for a goal. Young is 200cm/100kg...you dont let players do that to you when you are that size.....
That just set the tone for the rest of the game and Young needs a lesson from Voss on how to contest properly.....
Retaliators always get in the neck by the umps and tribunal. Fatso, The Racist and Rankine were trying to get under our skin, you dont get sucked into that carp, let your footy and the scoreboard do the talking. Unfortunately our footy and the scoreboard was pathetic so we were unable to stick it up them that way. There's always next time.
Positives:
Hollands.
Cowan.
H.
Charles.
Blacres.
Newman (the only bloke who can hold his head up after last night).
Game plan (we've seen passages when we play our way and it is extremely good).
Board stability.
Top notch CEO.
Doc.
Walsh.
Amazing and strong membership base.
Negatives:
Meekness (which undoes good game plan).
Injuries to key players.
Non-hackers getting games.
Small forwards not 'clicking.'
Fragile ruck stocks.
Inconsistency in games.
Undecided:
Coaching group.
Performance and fitness team.
Retaliators always get in the neck by the umps and tribunal. Fatso, The Racist and Rankine were trying to get under our skin, you dont get sucked into that carp, let your footy and the scoreboard do the talking. Unfortunately our footy and the scoreboard was pathetic so we were unable to stick it up them that way. There's always next time.
We got smashed and embarrassed playing the choirboy style and it was the same deal as last time, something had to change but we served up the same tripe and Id rather wear a few umpire decisions going against us than be bullied and timid.
The Daicos kids are starting to cop extra treatment and it will interesting to see how the other Collingwood players as well as the brothers cope with the physical stuff and Im betting they dont let other teams treat them the same way we allowed ourselves to be bullied...tomorrows game vs the Saints might tell us what to expect next week and how we need to play to win.
You know, I was wondering if my expectations are wrong, but I saw Zac butters put in a repeat effort 3 times to prevent a forward entry and likely cause a stoppage and im wondering if that level of desperation stands out to me because it's rare or if he's a gun, but I've watched on and I've seen him play desperate footy and wondered who from our tram exhibits such tenacity.
I would have thought this was a minimum requirement.
You know, I was wondering if my expectations are wrong, but I saw Zac butters put in a repeat effort 3 times to prevent a forward entry and likely cause a stoppage and im wondering if that level of desperation stands out to me because it's rare or if he's a gun, but I've watched on and I've seen him play desperate footy and wondered who from our tram exhibits such tenacity.
I would have thought this was a minimum requirement.
Saad, Gov, Doc
Saad, Gov, Doc
Yep, and although I have deep concerns re JSOS, his repeat efforts are also terrific. Hollands and Cowan have also shown strong repeat efforts as has Newman. And I'm sure I've left some out.
Yep, and although I have deep concerns re JSOS, his repeat efforts are also terrific. Hollands and Cowan have also shown strong repeat efforts as has Newman. And I'm sure I've left some out.
Yes agree, add SOS, Hollands and Cowan to my list.