Ok with all the drafting now finished I will have a early crack at our best lineup for 2014.
FB: Tuohy, Jamison, Everitt
HB: Walker, Watson, Simpson
C: Thomas, Gibbs, Lucas
HF: Yarran, Henderson, Garlett
FF: Casboult, Waite, Menzel
R: Kreuzer, Murphy, Judd
IC: Carrazzo, Robinson, Curnow, Docherty
FB: Duigan, White, McInnes
HB: Temay, Giles, Bootsma
C: Graham, Mclean, Scotland
HF: Armfield, Rowe, Ellard
FF: Buckley, Reynolds, Bell
R: Warnock, Cachia, Cripps
IC: Wood, Johnson, Holman, Sheehan/Byrne
Ok with all the drafting now finished I will have a early crack at our best lineup for 2014.
FB: Tuohy, Jamison, Everitt
HB: Walker, Watson, Simpson
C: Thomas, Gibbs, Lucas
HF: Yarran, Henderson, Garlett
FF: Casboult, Waite, Menzel
R: Kreuzer, Murphy, Judd
IC: Carrazzo, Robinson, Curnow, Docherty
FB: Duigan, White, McInnes
HB: Temay, Giles, Bootsma
C: Graham, Mclean, Scotland
HF: Armfield, Rowe, Ellard
FF: Buckley, Reynolds, Bell
R: Warnock, Cachia, Cripps
IC: Wood, Johnson, Holman, Sheehan/Byrne
Pretty good. Though I'd have Dinger for Lucas, Kreuzer for Casboult then Warnock for Kreuzer, McLean for Carrazzo and Armfield for Docherty.
Point is, we're starting to develop a best 30, rather than a best 16-18.
You're a brave man Roy, I reckon I could wait until a week before Rnd 1 and still get 4-5 selections wrong !!
I think we are building good depth, and picking a best 22 is going to be difficult and vary a lot from person to person.
I might have a go at some stage, but not now !!
http://users.tpg.com.au/jrhass/teamboard.swf
like I said - knock yourselves out
Thanks Cagman. I used it and couldn't find room for Armfield, Carrazzo, Rowe, Casboult, McInnes, Bell, White, or quite a few others in our starting 22 or even as a sub ?? I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a horribly bad thing. :o
http://users.tpg.com.au/jrhass/teamboard.swf
like I said - knock yourselves out
I have this page bookmarked, it's a great tool for this sort of thing, and a bit of fun too !!
Thanks Cagman. I used it and couldn't find room for Armfield, Carrazzo, Rowe, Casboult, McInnes, Bell, White, or quite a few others in our starting 22 or even as a sub ?? I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a horribly bad thing. :o
It's good Mants - by mid season 2014 the competition for a senior spot will be intense. ;D
Laidler gone doesn't seem like a loss at all. ^-^
Laidler gone doesn't seem like a loss at all. ^-^
It'll be interesting to see who plays more games, Laidler or Everitt ?!!
Laidler gone doesn't seem like a loss at all. ^-^
It'll be interesting to see who plays more games, Laidler or Everitt ?!!
BOS easily, has the makings of a gun as he matures.....
Laidler gone doesn't seem like a loss at all. ^-^
It'll be interesting to see who plays more games, Laidler or Everitt ?!!
BOS easily, has the makings of a gun as he matures.....
x2 I hope. Elwood tells me I won't regret it. Maybe he is the next Hotcox. ;D
Laidler gone doesn't seem like a loss at all. ^-^
It'll be interesting to see who plays more games, Laidler or Everitt ?!!
BOS easily, has the makings of a gun as he matures.....
x2 I hope. Elwood tells me I won't regret it. Maybe he is the next Hotcox. ;D
The guy has shown he can play either end, take a serious contested grab, kick goals and hold down a spot in the Swans' team.
Let's see how Jeremy goes up there?
Laidler gone doesn't seem like a loss at all. ^-^
It'll be interesting to see who plays more games, Laidler or Everitt ?!!
BOS easily, has the makings of a gun as he matures.....
x2 I hope. Elwood tells me I won't regret it. Maybe he is the next Hotcox. ;D
The guy has shown he can play either end, take a serious contested grab, kick goals and hold down a spot in the Swans' team.
Let's see how Jeremy goes up there?
They might match up on each other if Everitt swings forward. ;)
I think the starting 22 looks more settled this year in the second year under Mick. In a team that lacked run I think the biggest opportunity is adding Thomas and Walker to the wings. Two elite runners would make a massive difference. There is a bit more cover down back with McInness/Docherty effectively 2 new recruits.
The biggest black hole is CHB. Unfortunately I think Hendo will start there. Either Casboult takes the next step at CHF or Watson does at CHB.
I think you'll find Everitt will start as a forward. I like White in the team because he can take a turn on one of the bigger opponents and Armfield will start as our defensive forward.
FB: Scotland, Jamison, White
HB: Tuohy, Henderson, Simpson
C: Thomas, Gibbs, Walker
HF: Everitt, Casboult, Armfield
FF: Garlett, Waite, Yarran
R: Kreuzer, Murphy, Judd
IC: Carrazzo, Robinson, McLean, Docherty
E: Menzel, McInnes, Lucas, Bootsma, Curnow, Menzel, Rowe, Ellard, Bell, Warnock, Cachia
Lot of competition for places but we had that last year too - only it turned out to be mostly mediocre players competing with none of them really taking the next step.
I just had a bit of a play and came up with this !!
It's not really a best 22 or a rnd 1 22, TBH I'm not really sure what it is !! Probably more so what I would like to see at some stage.
Carlton 22
FB, Simpson, Jamison, Everitt
HB, Touhy, Henderson, Docherty
C, Thomas, Gibbs, Yarran
R, Kreuzer, Bell, Murphy
HF, Menzel, Waite, Judd
FF, Walker, Casboult, Garlett
INT, McLean, Armfield, Cripps, Robinson
Northern Blues
FB, Bootsma, Watson, McInnes
HB, Duigan, Giles, Scotland
C, Lucas, Curnow, Buckley
R, Warnock, Carrazzo, Graham
HF, Temay, Rowe, Holman
FF, Ellard, White, Reynolds
INT, Woods, Cachia, Johnson, Sheehan
Emg, Bryne
A few thoughts;
There is some really good flexibility in our 1st team, I think MM would be happy with that.
I would love to see Judd spend a lot more time out of the centre square. If the likes of Bell and Cripps can step up in that area, I think it might really help Juddy's game.
While Walker and Everitt are interchangeable, I think I prefer Walker forward and Everitt back.
I'm hoping that Docherty can come in and play Yarran's run and carry role off half back straight away. Yarran to play on the wing or forward of centre.
No Scotland or Carrazzo in the 1st 22, they will need to force a younger player out to get a game, either way it's healthy competition !!
I think we have a really potent forward line, Caboult as a stay at home FF, Waite and Walker as the leading forwards. Menzel and Garlett are both class, and a number of goal kicking mids to fill the last spot.
The backline has height, flexability and experience. My biggest issue with our backline this year is it's coach !! Barker.
From the NB's, Buckley stood out to me as the player I would really like to press hard and make a claim for a spot in our 1st 22
I just had a bit of a play and came up with this !!
It's not really a best 22 or a rnd 1 22, TBH I'm not really sure what it is !! Probably more so what I would like to see at some stage.
Carlton 22
FB, Simpson, Jamison, Everitt
HB, Touhy, Henderson, Docherty
C, Thomas, Gibbs, Yarran
R, Kreuzer, Bell, Murphy
HF, Menzel, Waite, Judd
FF, Walker, Casboult, Garlett
INT, McLean, Armfield, Cripps, Robinson
Northern Blues
FB, Bootsma, Watson, McInnes
HB, Duigan, Giles, Scotland
C, Lucas, Curnow, Buckley
R, Warnock, Carrazzo, Graham
HF, Temay, Rowe, Holman
FF, Ellard, White, Reynolds
INT, Woods, Cachia, Johnson, Sheehan
Emg, Bryne
A few thoughts;
There is some really good flexibility in our 1st team, I think MM would be happy with that.
I would love to see Judd spend a lot more time out of the centre square. If the likes of Bell and Cripps can step up in that area, I think it might really help Juddy's game.
While Walker and Everitt are interchangeable, I think I prefer Walker forward and Everitt back.
I'm hoping that Docherty can come in and play Yarran's run and carry role off half back straight away. Yarran to play on the wing or forward of centre.
No Scotland or Carrazzo in the 1st 22, they will need to force a younger player out to get a game, either way it's healthy competition !!
I think we have a really potent forward line, Caboult as a stay at home FF, Waite and Walker as the leading forwards. Menzel and Garlett are both class, and a number of goal kicking mids to fill the last spot.
The backline has height, flexability and experience. My biggest issue with our backline this year is it's coach !! Barker.
From the NB's, Buckley stood out to me as the player I would really like to press hard and make a claim for a spot in our 1st 22
Agree re. Barker and definitely Buckley. It's his last chance but he looks very talented.
Barker's forward line lacked any semblance of a system. You'd swear we never had a fwd coach.
Can't see Bell or Docherty starting the season in the team unless they have fantastic NAB cups.
Looking at the game time given to Lachie Whitfield, Ollie Wines, Sam Mayes and Nick Vlastuin (all higher picks than Troy Menzel in the 2012 draft) and the speculation that without a 'knee history' he was top 3 all the way, can we expect Menzel to keep a regular place in the side AND create an impact??
(Most speculators here have him in their team)
I saw glimpses of Menzel in 2013 that had me feeling very positive about his future at Carlton - I think he has genuine class and hopefully he can be a big star for us, maybe starting next year. With Eddie gone we will have to think differently about our forward set-up and this kid can shine IMHO.
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...
Yes Elwood, it's going to be very interesting to see how things go with our forward set-up with all the new blood coming in. Much as I loved Eddie, looking back, I think he caused us to be too predictable with our forward entry and options. I'm expecting a few things to change dramatically next year, even if we haven't managed to land a power KPF.
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...
I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.
The rest he looks good. Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker. Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...
I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.
The rest he looks good. Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker. Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.
I noticed he went to ground a lot. He probably doesn't have confidence to put all his weight on that knee and hold his ground.
Gonna be some selection dilemmas if the the list is fit and healthy. Trying to pick the best 22 does my head in this time of the year and rnd 1.
Gonna be some selection dilemmas if the the list is fit and healthy. Trying to pick the best 22 does my head in this time of the year and rnd 1.
This season makes it even worse. I guess that means the depth is getting stronger. From what I can see.
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...
I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.
The rest he looks good. Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker. Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.
I noticed he went to ground a lot. He probably doesn't have confidence to put all his weight on that knee and hold his ground.
That's what I noticed too; falls over far too often to be a genuine best 22 contender. Hopefully it was first season nerves or getting used to the tempo and he'll come on next season.
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...
I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.
The rest he looks good. Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker. Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.
The Menzel boy has a great, really great footy brain. Some of his gives to advantage this year were absolutely sublime... he reads the play like a bona fide champ. His attack on the aggott and man is also first rate. His foot disposal is excellent though his shots on goal are just above average.
If the club thinks his knee will not stand up then they should just put him in for standard surgery and write off 2014 for the kid. But maybe this lars surgery has been a real success and all he needs is experience to be the player he can be.
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...
I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.
The rest he looks good. Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker. Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.
The Menzel boy has a great, really great footy brain. Some of his gives to advantage this year were absolutely sublime... he reads the play like a bona fide champ. His attack on the aggott and man is also first rate. His foot disposal is excellent though his shots on goal are just above average.
If the club thinks his knee will not stand up then they should just put him in for standard surgery and write off 2014 for the kid. But maybe this lars surgery has been a real success and all he needs is experience to be the player he can be.
I admire your optimism Baggers but you have seen an awful lot in a bloke who only averaged 7 touches and 2 tackles a game.
I hope you're right but I'm reserving judgement until I see him get his share of the ball, and stay on his feet.
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...
I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.
The rest he looks good. Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker. Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.
The Menzel boy has a great, really great footy brain. Some of his gives to advantage this year were absolutely sublime... he reads the play like a bona fide champ. His attack on the aggott and man is also first rate. His foot disposal is excellent though his shots on goal are just above average.
If the club thinks his knee will not stand up then they should just put him in for standard surgery and write off 2014 for the kid. But maybe this lars surgery has been a real success and all he needs is experience to be the player he can be.
I admire your optimism Baggers but you have seen an awful lot in a bloke who only averaged 7 touches and 2 tackles a game.
I hope you're right but I'm reserving judgement until I see him get his share of the ball, and stay on his feet.
Im with Baggers here. His stats are skewed somewhat by being subbed, and being made sub a couple of times, and its not the number of things you do, its what you do when you get involved that counts.
Every single action he made when involved in the play was good.
My issue is the agility when the ball hits the deck. For me, its not that he goes to ground too often, its the way he straightens his leg out when going to ground. obviously lacking confidence in that knee. Its almost like he is "stiff". I have seen many other knee recoverers do the same thing, but they dont do it forever. They usually do it for a couple of seasons and then return to "normal".
Cookie ....Remember when he got drafted the comments were that the club know the LARS wont hold up and I get the feeling with Menzel the club are waiting for him to do his knee and then get it done the non LARS way and take it from there....
He is a very classy player as you said but will have some competition from Reynolds and Johnson for his spot down the track IMO which is good for the club...
I remember thinking every time I saw him play last season that he lacked agility, and had issues with the ball below his knees which is my only concern about him.
The rest he looks good. Physical, Competitive, skillful, accurate and a good decision maker. Now hopefully the body holds up and we are onto a winner.
The Menzel boy has a great, really great footy brain. Some of his gives to advantage this year were absolutely sublime... he reads the play like a bona fide champ. His attack on the aggott and man is also first rate. His foot disposal is excellent though his shots on goal are just above average.
If the club thinks his knee will not stand up then they should just put him in for standard surgery and write off 2014 for the kid. But maybe this lars surgery has been a real success and all he needs is experience to be the player he can be.
I admire your optimism Baggers but you have seen an awful lot in a bloke who only averaged 7 touches and 2 tackles a game.
I hope you're right but I'm reserving judgement until I see him get his share of the ball, and stay on his feet.
Im with Baggers here. His stats are skewed somewhat by being subbed, and being made sub a couple of times, and its not the number of things you do, its what you do when you get involved that counts.
Every single action he made when involved in the play was good.
My issue is the agility when the ball hits the deck. For me, its not that he goes to ground too often, its the way he straightens his leg out when going to ground. obviously lacking confidence in that knee. Its almost like he is "stiff". I have seen many other knee recoverers do the same thing, but they dont do it forever. They usually do it for a couple of seasons and then return to "normal".
Looks like he's got a fair bit of filling out to do. Once that happens the stress really comes on the joints. Hope that knee holds up - we know the story with his brother.
I admire the optimism here - just hoping he avoids the "second year blues" that so many young blokes get.
However, its a good point that without Eddie there he does have a spot to walk into and make his own. Will balance the team. So many times Eddie had a long ball kicked to him one on one against a tall defender and wasn't able to bring it to ground - he also pulled in a few too but hard when you're giving away 30cm.
With Menzel down there at least the defender has to spoil every time though.
I'll have a crack too, though I was pretty comprehensive in the other thread I started along these lines a few weeks ago.
B: Everitt Jamison Simpson
HB: Scotland Watson Tuohy
C: Walker Murphy Thomas
HF: Yarran Henderson Robinson
F: Casboult Waite Garlett
R: Kreuzer Judd Gibbs
INT: McLean Carrazzo White
SUB: Armfield
EMG: Curnow Lucas Docherty
Pushing for Selection from Round 1:
Warnock
Menzel
Rowe
McInnes
Bootsma
Duigan
Graham
Ellard
Bell
Wood
Cachia
Time Needed at the Northern Blues:
Buckley (should play later in the year)
Cripps (should play later in the year)
Giles (may play later in the year)
Temay (if he doesn't play seniors this year, he's gone)
Holman (may play later in the year)
Johnson (rookie)
Sheehan (rookie)
Byrne (rookie)
Reynolds (rookie)
I went with Jamo, Watson and Everitt as talls in defence as I think the addition of Everitt will take significant pressure off Watson and allow him to develop into a much better player.
Simpson, Scotland and Tuohy provide excellent run, fantastic discipline and, more importantly, quality ball delivery and decision making coming out of defence while still being able to shut down their opponents.
Walker and Thomas on the wings should prove an absolutely lethal combination. Both have star quality all over them, run both ways (at elite speeds), possess great tanks and are again fantastic users of the ball. Both are just as capable of assisting in defence as they are drifting forward to become legitimate scoring threats. It's a combination that would give nightmares to most opposing coaches.
Henderson playing as a permanent CHF moves us immediately into top 4 calculations, IMO, and he has the ability to be All-Australian at the position. Waite at Full Forward will give the opposition headaches for as long as he stays on the park, and Casboult playing as effectively the third tall forward/resting ruckman alternating with Kreuzer takes a lot of pressure off him and should let us really take advantage of his elite marking ability. If he learns to convert better, this combination could easily combine for 150+ goals between them.
Yarran and Garlett as small forwards is still a horrendous prospect for opposition teams, especially crumbing at the feet of three legitimate tall threats in the forward 50. Betts will not even be missed, IMO.
Robinson plays the role of defensive forward, which I think will be his ideal position going forward in his career.
Kreuzer is easily our best starting ruck, though if he's injured then either Warnock or Wood are very capable replacements. Judd is a no brainer in the middle, but Gibbs should now be free to play an entire season in the midfield which is exactly what we need. He was a clearance machine when he got an extended run in there last season, averaging more than any player in the AFL during that time span. He's a big body and excellent decision maker too, so the combination of Judd, Murphy and Gibbs at the first bounce basically means whoever the opposition tag, we still have a legitimate A-Grade gun or two who will get off the leash and hurt the opposition. It makes me a little rubbery just thinking about it.
McLean, Carrazzo and White on the interchange offer outstanding midfield rotations and strong swingman coverage for the talls at both ends of the ground. All three have the ability to impact games and play vital roles and the fact that they're starting on the bench shows just how much depth we're developing.
Armfield as the substitute offers the sort of explosiveness, pace, and aggression that will kill teams in the last quarter. It's a fantastic role for him to play as I don't think he has the skill set to claim a starting spot each and every week, but as an impact player is absolutely brilliant.
The emergencies could have come from any of the pushing for selection from round one list, but I felt that Lucas, Curnow and Docherty offered the most skill and versatility.
By my count we have 36 players who are bonafide AFL ready (as in they have already played significantly good games at AFL level to suggest they can step straight in to the line up without hurting us too much).
The 9 players still developing include all of this year's draft crop, however it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see quite a few of those boys getting game time throughout the year.
Our depth is obviously significantly improved and the balance of our list is significantly better.
I see no reason not to be very optimistic about our chances next season assuming we don't get absolutely pillaged by injury.
B: Everitt Jamison Simpson
HB: Scotland Watson Tuohy
C: Walker Murphy Thomas
HF: Yarran Henderson Robinson
F: Casboult Waite Garlett
R: Kreuzer Judd Gibbs
INT: McLean Carrazzo White
SUB: Armfield
EMG: Curnow Lucas Docherty
Swap Gibbs and Murphy, Replace White with Warnock, Docherty for Army and thats what I had.
B: Everitt Jamison Simpson
HB: Scotland Watson Tuohy
C: Walker Murphy Thomas
HF: Yarran Henderson Robinson
F: Casboult Waite Garlett
R: Kreuzer Judd Gibbs
INT: McLean Carrazzo White
SUB: Armfield
EMG: Curnow Lucas Docherty
Swap Gibbs and Murphy, Replace White with Warnock, Docherty for Army and thats what I had.
Fair enough on Gibbs and Murphy. In modern day football, I'd consider all of Judd, Gibbs and Murphy (the primary onballers) as interchangeable. I could easily see Docherty taking Army's spot at some point in the season because I think he's naturally a better footballer, I'm just not 100% that will be from round one.
I went without a second bonafide ruckman in the side because I think that if you take some pressure off the Casboult/Kreuzer combination by playing them out of a forward pocket (with both Hendo and Waite as key forwards) then we shouldn't necessarily need another lumbering tall like Warnock in the side. I'd rather go with the extra flexibility of White, who can slot in either forward or back and isn't limited to just the one particular position.
my team for what its worth:
FB :Everitt Jamieson Simpson
HB:Docherty Henderson Gibbs
C: Thomas Mclean Walker
HF:Yarran Waite Robinson
FF:Menzel Casboult Garlett
FOL:Kreuzer, Murphy Judd
INT:Scotland, Tuohy, Carrazo
SUB:Armfield
EMG:Cripps, Mcginnes, Graham
Kreuzer and Casboult share the ruck duties, Gibbs, Robinson, Tuohy( I think he's ready to break out), Carrazo, Yarran(if he imprpoves his fitness) and potentially Thomas all included in on ball rotation, I have deliberately gone with no recognised 3rd tall forward as I believe our leg speed and med sized players are our best bet up forward adding another tall will take away from that+ Robinson can play the 3rd tall role when he's forward. Happy to omit carrazo for a younger inside mid (cripps, graham, Bell? Cachia?) if he struggles early in the season.
B: Everitt Jamison Simpson
HB: Scotland Watson Tuohy
C: Walker Murphy Thomas
HF: Yarran Henderson Robinson
F: Casboult Waite Garlett
R: Kreuzer Judd Gibbs
INT: McLean Carrazzo White
SUB: Armfield
EMG: Curnow Lucas Docherty
Swap Gibbs and Murphy, Replace White with Warnock, Docherty for Army and thats what I had.
Fair enough on Gibbs and Murphy. In modern day football, I'd consider all of Judd, Gibbs and Murphy (the primary onballers) as interchangeable. I could easily see Docherty taking Army's spot at some point in the season because I think he's naturally a better footballer, I'm just not 100% that will be from round one.
I went without a second bonafide ruckman in the side because I think that if you take some pressure off the Casboult/Kreuzer combination by playing them out of a forward pocket (with both Hendo and Waite as key forwards) then we shouldn't necessarily need another lumbering tall like Warnock in the side. I'd rather go with the extra flexibility of White, who can slot in either forward or back and isn't limited to just the one particular position.
Agree on the ruck theory, only problem for me is the two of them (K and 206) are so injury prone, they cant seem to ruck all day alone ala Jolly, Ottens etc at their prime.
my team for what its worth:
FB :Everitt Jamieson Simpson
HB:Docherty Henderson Gibbs
C: Thomas Mclean Walker
HF:Yarran Waite Robinson
FF:Menzel Casboult Garlett
FOL:Kreuzer, Murphy Judd
INT:Scotland, Tuohy, Carrazo
SUB:Armfield
EMG:Cripps, Mcginnes, Graham
Kreuzer and Casboult share the ruck duties, Gibbs, Robinson, Tuohy( I think he's ready to break out), Carrazo, Yarran(if he imprpoves his fitness) and potentially Thomas all included in on ball rotation, I have deliberately gone with no recognised 3rd tall forward as I believe our leg speed and med sized players are our best bet up forward adding another tall will take away from that+ Robinson can play the 3rd tall role when he's forward. Happy to omit carrazo for a younger inside mid (cripps, graham, Bell? Cachia?) if he struggles early in the season.
Mate Love Robbo to death but I've got this inkling that his days are numbered. Clean ball use is the order of the day going fwd and he just doesnt cut it. You can see by what they are trying to draft in that this is the case (at least thats how I read it). I just think his hardness and toughness "petrol vouchers" are running out and have taken him as far as they can. As for Levi, boy does he need to improve his fitness by a country mile to even be considered for a game. Another whos days may be numbered IF he doesnt get himself supremely fit.
GIC.
Player types coming in at the moment if these guys fail to come the goods. Its not that their days are definitely numbered, but similar types have been selected if they fail to come the goods. However its insurance with players that have some skills by foot. Is that all bad, no. Not for the club, but it could be for your above mentioned players. IMO. ;)
Mate Love Robbo to death but I've got this inkling that his days are numbered. Clean ball use is the order of the day going fwd and he just doesnt cut it. You can see by what they are trying to draft in that this is the case (at least thats how I read it). I just think his hardness and toughness "petrol vouchers" are running out and have taken him as far as they can. As for Levi, boy does he need to improve his fitness by a country mile to even be considered for a game. Another whos days may be numbered IF he doesnt get himself supremely fit.
Clean ball use is important but it means nothing if you can't win your own ball.
Robbo's brain fade against the Tigers paled into insignificance when he threw himself to mark, and then goal. How many clean ball users would have even contemplated attempting that mark?
The same applies to fitness; what's the use of a marathon runner who can't take a contested mark?
The coach and the fitness staff have to get the best out of every player even if that means more time on the pine for some and covering errors for others.
Mate Love Robbo to death but I've got this inkling that his days are numbered. Clean ball use is the order of the day going fwd and he just doesnt cut it. You can see by what they are trying to draft in that this is the case (at least thats how I read it). I just think his hardness and toughness "petrol vouchers" are running out and have taken him as far as they can. As for Levi, boy does he need to improve his fitness by a country mile to even be considered for a game. Another whos days may be numbered IF he doesnt get himself supremely fit.
Clean ball use is important but it means nothing if you can't win your own ball.
Robbo's brain fade against the Tigers paled into insignificance when he threw himself to mark, and then goal. How many clean ball users would have even contemplated attempting that mark?
The same applies to fitness; what's the use of a marathon runner who can't take a contested mark?
The coach and the fitness staff have to get the best out of every player even if that means more time on the pine for some and covering errors for others.
All players make mistakes at times (it's their net impact that is relevant), I've seen Gibbs and even Judd/Murph produce some terrible clangers in recent times?
For round 1 Id go with:
B: Tuohy, Jamison, Rowe
Hb: Walker, Everitt, Docherty
C: Simpson, Carrazzo, Thomas
Hf: Judd, Henderson, Menzel
F: Garlett, Waite, Casboult
Foll: Kreuzer, Gibbs
Rov: Murphy
I/c: Curnow, Graham, Robinson, Yarran
Mate Love Robbo to death but I've got this inkling that his days are numbered. Clean ball use is the order of the day going fwd and he just doesnt cut it. You can see by what they are trying to draft in that this is the case (at least thats how I read it). I just think his hardness and toughness "petrol vouchers" are running out and have taken him as far as they can. As for Levi, boy does he need to improve his fitness by a country mile to even be considered for a game. Another whos days may be numbered IF he doesnt get himself supremely fit.
Clean ball use is important but it means nothing if you can't win your own ball.
Robbo's brain fade against the Tigers paled into insignificance when he threw himself to mark, and then goal. How many clean ball users would have even contemplated attempting that mark?
The same applies to fitness; what's the use of a marathon runner who can't take a contested mark?
The coach and the fitness staff have to get the best out of every player even if that means more time on the pine for some and covering errors for others.
With all due respect DJC, I think you are mixing arguments (sort of). I wasnt talking about a type of player. I was talking about Robbo and Levi specifically and their deficiencies. I can counter your arguement by saying whats the point in being hard and win your own footy if you give back to the other mob every time. Same with the specific reference to Levi. I can counter that by saying whats the use of being able to clunk marks if then youre to effin tired to execute the kick for goal properly. What I am saying is that we need more complete packages, not bitsas. E.g. If Cripps turns out to be the hard nut inside mid who disposes beautifully, someone like Robbo is no longer required as their deficiencies no longer need to be tolerated.
For round 1 Id go with:
B: Tuohy, Jamison, Rowe
Hb: Walker, Everitt, Docherty
C: Simpson, Carrazzo, Thomas
Hf: Judd, Henderson, Menzel
F: Garlett, Waite, Casboult
Foll: Kreuzer, Gibbs
Rov: Murphy
I/c: Curnow, Graham, Robinson, Yarran
That 22, playing good footy, will scare every side in the comp and beat a lot more than most.
Not sure about Rowe and Casboult both in the 22..... but if form warrants it.....
All of these teams have at least one common feature - Hampson is not named in the forward line in any of them.
Like him as a player but he confused the situation for us as he just never had a clear position and the MC was forever trying to shoe-horn him in somewhere. Never worked.
Thomas added to the midfield and Doc on the hbf - Walker or Simpson also added to the midfield. Everything looks far more balanced.
Betts - I'd love it if he was still there but without him in the fwd line we have traded a bit of crumbing power for a more balanced structure in my view. Menzel or Walker fwd gives us a bit more height with Yaz / Jeff still plenty of tacking/crumbing.
Be interesting to see whether or not Warnock plays R1 IMO. I think he will as 1st ruck with Kreuz as fwd/relief ruck and Casboult ommitted.
Not sure whether Rowe will crack a spot either - guess it depends how he goes with his fitness between now and then?
Ok with all the drafting now finished I will have a early crack at our best lineup for 2014.
FB: Tuohy, Jamison, Everitt
HB: Walker, Watson, Simpson
C: Thomas, Gibbs, Lucas
HF: Yarran, Henderson, Garlett
FF: Casboult, Waite, Menzel
R: Kreuzer, Murphy, Judd
IC: Carrazzo, Robinson, Curnow, Docherty
FB: Duigan, White, McInnes
HB: Temay, Giles, Bootsma
C: Graham, Mclean, Scotland
HF: Armfield, Rowe, Ellard
FF: Buckley, Reynolds, Bell
R: Warnock, Cachia, Cripps
IC: Wood, Johnson, Holman, Sheehan/Byrne
Better depth and quality, some way to go but hopefully general improvement, confidence and development improves also which it really should!
For the VFL affiliate, we now have Jack Anthony onboard which will be god I think - very interested to see how he goes - and possibly Cameron Conlon also as I read somewhere he had been training with the Northern Blues FC? A bigger unit down back would be nice too. Hopefully we can keep Kane Lambert, especially after losing Adam Marcon.
Ok with all the drafting now finished I will have a early crack at our best lineup for 2014.
FB: Tuohy, Jamison, Everitt
HB: Walker, Watson, Simpson
C: Thomas, Gibbs, Lucas
HF: Yarran, Henderson, Garlett
FF: Casboult, Waite, Menzel
R: Kreuzer, Murphy, Judd
IC: Carrazzo, Robinson, Curnow, Docherty
FB: Duigan, White, McInnes
HB: Temay, Giles, Bootsma
C: Graham, Mclean, Scotland
HF: Armfield, Rowe, Ellard
FF: Buckley, Reynolds, Bell
R: Warnock, Cachia, Cripps
IC: Wood, Johnson, Holman, Sheehan/Byrne
No way Curnow gets a game over McLean in the 1s. The only way he gets a game is if Carrazzo is out imo. Especially if MM goes back to no designated tagger like the pies.
B: Everitt Jamison Simpson
HB: Scotland Watson Tuohy
C: Walker Murphy Thomas
HF: Yarran Henderson Robinson
F: Casboult Waite Garlett
R: Kreuzer Judd Gibbs
INT: McLean Carrazzo White
SUB: Armfield
EMG: Curnow Lucas Docherty
Swap Gibbs and Murphy, Replace White with Warnock, Docherty for Army and thats what I had.
Fair enough on Gibbs and Murphy. In modern day football, I'd consider all of Judd, Gibbs and Murphy (the primary onballers) as interchangeable. I could easily see Docherty taking Army's spot at some point in the season because I think he's naturally a better footballer, I'm just not 100% that will be from round one.
I went without a second bonafide ruckman in the side because I think that if you take some pressure off the Casboult/Kreuzer combination by playing them out of a forward pocket (with both Hendo and Waite as key forwards) then we shouldn't necessarily need another lumbering tall like Warnock in the side. I'd rather go with the extra flexibility of White, who can slot in either forward or back and isn't limited to just the one particular position.
Agree on the ruck theory, only problem for me is the two of them (K and 206) are so injury prone, they cant seem to ruck all day alone ala Jolly, Ottens etc at their prime.
When I picked that, I was hoping that playing in a forward pocket with both Henderson and Waite taking the main key forward responsibilities (and therefore best defenders) may alleviate that issue to a degree as the rucks would get true rest deep in the forward line without having to roam too much or play key position. I'd be okay playing a Warnock/Kreuzer combo but preferred Casboult as the deep threat/forward pocket/relief ruck as he is simply so much better than either of Warnock or Kreuzer in a contested marking situation.
@Nathbear
Casboult may be in with a show if he ever learns to kick straight and gets to the required fitness level.
@Nathbear
Casboult may be in with a show if he ever learns to kick straight and gets to the required fitness level.
Cookie many here and I too agree with you. His marking ability in a contest is great. If he can get fit and learn to kick straight, he could be one of the best forwards in the league. We can only hope this becomes the case soon. ;)
@Nathbear
Casboult may be in with a show if he ever learns to kick straight and gets to the required fitness level.
Fluffy Biscuit me good buddy, let me assure you that Meat (Casboult) can kick. His only kicking problem is between the ears. I've seen him kick 60 metre goals from the boundary in the NBs. It is only confidence and instinc... ideas that he cannot kick are simply wrong. Get this blokes head right and he could be anything...
@Nathbear
Casboult may be in with a show if he ever learns to kick straight and gets to the required fitness level.
Fluffy Biscuit me good buddy, let me assure you that Meat (Casboult) can kick. His only kicking problem is between the ears. I've seen him kick 60 metre goals from the boundary in the NBs. It is only confidence and instinc... ideas that he cannot kick are simply wrong. Get this blokes head right and he could be anything...
To me Baggers it matters nought what he CAN potentially do if he doesn't consistently actually DO IT. Whether the problem is between his ears or anywhere else mate, if he can't get the ball consistently between the big sticks, then as far as I'm concerned, he can't bl00dy well kick under AFL match conditions.
I really hope he can sort this out - we could really do with him demonstrating his ability on a regular basis. I would love to see him be successful, but if he isn't in 2014 then I fear for his future with us beyond that time unfortunately.
@Nathbear
Casboult may be in with a show if he ever learns to kick straight and gets to the required fitness level.
Fluffy Biscuit me good buddy, let me assure you that Meat (Casboult) can kick. His only kicking problem is between the ears. I've seen him kick 60 metre goals from the boundary in the NBs. It is only confidence and instinc... ideas that he cannot kick are simply wrong. Get this blokes head right and he could be anything...
To me Baggers it matters nought what he CAN potentially do if he doesn't consistently actually DO IT. Whether the problem is between his ears or anywhere else mate, if he can't get the ball consistently between the big sticks, then as far as I'm concerned, he can't bl00dy well kick under AFL match conditions.
I really hope he can sort this out - we could really do with him demonstrating his ability on a regular basis. I would love to see him be successful, but if he isn't in 2014 then I fear for his future with us beyond that time unfortunately.
Point is that he
can consistently do it and has done so. However, you're right, unless he can deliver consistently under all conditions/situations next year, he
will be fade to obscurity. I am sure that he and Rowey are under no illusions in terms of their footy careers... they both have a phenomenal opportunity to deliver at our club and secure a terrific future... and what they deliver in 2014 will decide that.
@Baggers
Look, you've probably seen a lot more of him than I have. I have actually seen him kick a few good goals for the 1s when he looked fine and really connected. However, this does not seem to be a consistently repeatable process atm, which does suggest the problem is all in his mind.
@Baggers
Look, you've probably seen a lot more of him than I have. I have actually seen him kick a few good goals for the 1s when he looked fine and really connected. However, this does not seem to be a consistently repeatable process atm, which does suggest the problem is all in his mind.
Exactly.
Any chance Duigs could be called upon to fix the stuff between Bolt's ears? ;D
B: Tuohy, Jamison, White
Hb: Everitt, Watson, Simpson
C: Thomas, Carrazzo, Curnow
Hf: Walker, Henderson, Judd
F: Garlett, Waite, Kreuzer
Foll: Warnock, Gibbs
Rov: Murphy
I/c: McLean, Menzel, Scotland, Yarran
Emerg: Bell, Docherty, Robinson
@Baggers
Look, you've probably seen a lot more of him than I have. I have actually seen him kick a few good goals for the 1s when he looked fine and really connected. However, this does not seem to be a consistently repeatable process atm, which does suggest the problem is all in his mind.
Exactly.
I disagree. His technique is terrible. His ball drop doesn't sync with his steps, he almost drops the ball with two hands and then swings his leg from right to left through his kick.
@Baggers
Look, you've probably seen a lot more of him than I have. I have actually seen him kick a few good goals for the 1s when he looked fine and really connected. However, this does not seem to be a consistently repeatable process atm, which does suggest the problem is all in his mind.
Exactly.
I disagree. His technique is terrible. His ball drop doesn't sync with his steps, he almost drops the ball with two hands and then swings his leg from right to left through his kick.
+1 technique for sure.
@Baggers
Look, you've probably seen a lot more of him than I have. I have actually seen him kick a few good goals for the 1s when he looked fine and really connected. However, this does not seem to be a consistently repeatable process atm, which does suggest the problem is all in his mind.
Exactly.
I disagree. His technique is terrible. His ball drop doesn't sync with his steps, he almost drops the ball with two hands and then swings his leg from right to left through his kick.
I'm no expert MI, but doesn't good technique require strong concentration - keeping your mind on what you're trying to do? So a lapse in concentration means technique suffers. Maybe if he could maintain concentration then his kicking would be a lot better?
No amount of concentration can overcome a technique like that. The action itself needs a complete overhaul.
No amount of concentration can overcome a technique like that. The action itself needs a complete overhaul.
But he has kicked some excellent goals, consistency/repeatability seems to be his problem. Are the good ones just down to chance?
@Baggers
Look, you've probably seen a lot more of him than I have. I have actually seen him kick a few good goals for the 1s when he looked fine and really connected. However, this does not seem to be a consistently repeatable process atm, which does suggest the problem is all in his mind.
Exactly.
I disagree. His technique is terrible. His ball drop doesn't sync with his steps, he almost drops the ball with two hands and then swings his leg from right to left through his kick.
I'm no expert MI, but doesn't good technique require strong concentration - keeping your mind on what you're trying to do? So a lapse in concentration means technique suffers. Maybe if he could maintain concentration then his kicking would be a lot better?
I think any action like kicking needs to be second nature and what feels comfortable. It should basically be executed WITHOUT concentration. At this stage his poor technique is how he feels comfortable kicking and to re-work it would be like learning to kick on the left foot. Muscle memory and all that.
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.
I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.
I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.
I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.
I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.
I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.
I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.
He could start by lowering his ball drop to just inside the earths atmosphere that'll help.
Secondly, from a fellow golf tragic it's good to hear you describe the remedy to your slicing as unnatural in what has to be the most unnatural sport on earth!
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.
I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.
I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.
I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.
He could start by lowering his ball drop to just inside the earths atmosphere that'll help.
Secondly, from a fellow golf tragic it's good to hear you describe the remedy to your slicing as unnatural in what has to be the most unnatural sport on earth!
'Comfortable' is probably a wiser choice of words. ;) Maybe Levi can swing his hips through later. It made my ball go straight. :D
@MI
I just hope we can sort Levi out - hips and all MI. If he can't fix his kicking by end of 2014 I think he'll be gorn unfortunately. From what you say he sounds like he's got a lot of work to do but Baggers seems to think he can kick OK if he sets his mind to it - we'll see I guess.
Collingwood at the forefront once again by hiring Trav Cloke a personal goal-kicking coach. Cloke's kicking is much better than it used to be...but still got improvement left. Kudos. We should be doing the same thing with Levi...he is the future of our club.
Collingwood at the forefront once again by hiring Trav Cloke a personal goal-kicking coach. Cloke's kicking is much better than it used to be...but still got improvement left. Kudos. We should be doing the same thing with Levi...he is the future of our club.
Forgive me if this is inaccurate but Cloke's kicking issues were not technique but, radar and pressure oriented were they not?
Its almost a confidence thing and still hurts him today. Once he gets the yips he is done.
Levi's kicking is a bit like Franklins and he can be a mixed proposition even today. The one thing i have noticed with Levi is the further out he is the more chance he is of converting which suggests that he puts more effort into his kicking from further out. Whether or not that is the problem is a different kettle of fish.
Collingwood at the forefront once again by hiring Trav Cloke a personal goal-kicking coach. Cloke's kicking is much better than it used to be...but still got improvement left. Kudos. We should be doing the same thing with Levi...he is the future of our club.
Forgive me if this is inaccurate but Cloke's kicking issues were not technique but, radar and pressure oriented were they not?
Its almost a confidence thing and still hurts him today. Once he gets the yips he is done.
Levi's kicking is a bit like Franklins and he can be a mixed proposition even today. The one thing i have noticed with Levi is the further out he is the more chance he is of converting which suggests that he puts more effort into his kicking from further out. Whether or not that is the problem is a different kettle of fish.
Cloke is a pretty good kick from outside 50m as well, but they usually don't pause and take a set shot from there. They usually play on straight away and launch it with little build up and thought. I think the bigger guys have trouble kicking because there's a bigger drop from hand to foot and more chance of the ball coming off its line.
We could probably do with a kicking coach to help the new Irish boys out and Levi as well. I'd be getting everyone to practice kicking on their non-preferred and a coach would also help out there.
What Cloke's problem is/was is irrelevant in my opinion. The point is, Collingwood have invested heavily in the football department to provide their key forward with the personal coaching that he needs and fix the problem. Though as I said, his kicking had improved dramatically over the last couple of years, but the Magpies saw fit the other day to hire a coach to further improve it.
Levi needs one on one coaching and plenty of time dedicated to it. Anyone who has played footy here would know that pre-seasons can be dominated by running, and very little ball-use. That's fine so Levi must want to fix his kicking by putting in extra hours on the track. Someone needs to speak to him and say that 2014 could be his breakout year, and with the help of a personal coach, he can achieve it with his own determination.
What Cloke's problem is/was is irrelevant in my opinion. The point is, Collingwood have invested heavily in the football department to provide their key forward with the personal coaching that he needs and fix the problem. Though as I said, his kicking had improved dramatically over the last couple of years, but the Magpies saw fit the other day to hire a coach to further improve it.
Levi needs one on one coaching and plenty of time dedicated to it. Anyone who has played footy here would know that pre-seasons can be dominated by running, and very little ball-use. That's fine so Levi must want to fix his kicking by putting in extra hours on the track. Someone needs to speak to him and say that 2014 could be his breakout year, and with the help of a personal coach, he can achieve it with his own determination.
I think the way workloads are formulated these days he may have to sacrifice another area of his training (which I know sounds ridiculous) as to not overload and reduce his recovery time. I would be happy for him, for example, to replace ruck work altogether with kicking practice as I think a genuine key forward should be doing anyway.
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.
I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.
I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.
I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.
He could start by lowering his ball drop to just inside the earths atmosphere that'll help.
Secondly, from a fellow golf tragic it's good to hear you describe the remedy to your slicing as unnatural in what has to be the most unnatural sport on earth!
'Comfortable' is probably a wiser choice of words. ;) Maybe Levi can swing his hips through later. It made my ball go straight. :D
Looking at Watson's change in physique combined with the recruitment of Everitt has made Casboult surplus. I doubt he will get a gig short of the inevitable injuries to Kreuzer, Waite, Warnock or Jammo get their inevitable injuries. Even then he has to deal with Wood on the list which makes Casboult less attractive as a 2nd ruck option which I think is his best chance at a game.
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.
I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.
I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.
I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.
He could start by lowering his ball drop to just inside the earths atmosphere that'll help.
Secondly, from a fellow golf tragic it's good to hear you describe the remedy to your slicing as unnatural in what has to be the most unnatural sport on earth!
'Comfortable' is probably a wiser choice of words. ;) Maybe Levi can swing his hips through later. It made my ball go straight. :D
Looking at Watson's change in physique combined with the recruitment of Everitt has made Casboult surplus. I doubt he will get a gig short of the inevitable injuries to Kreuzer, Waite, Warnock or Jammo get their inevitable injuries. Even then he has to deal with Wood on the list which makes Casboult less attractive as a 2nd ruck option which I think is his best chance at a game.
Watson is pretty much guaranteed first/second tall when he gets back imo
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.
I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.
I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.
I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.
He could start by lowering his ball drop to just inside the earths atmosphere that'll help.
Secondly, from a fellow golf tragic it's good to hear you describe the remedy to your slicing as unnatural in what has to be the most unnatural sport on earth!
'Comfortable' is probably a wiser choice of words. ;) Maybe Levi can swing his hips through later. It made my ball go straight. :D
Looking at Watson's change in physique combined with the recruitment of Everitt has made Casboult surplus. I doubt he will get a gig short of the inevitable injuries to Kreuzer, Waite, Warnock or Jammo get their inevitable injuries. Even then he has to deal with Wood on the list which makes Casboult less attractive as a 2nd ruck option which I think is his best chance at a game.
We need to put time into Casboult as a forward. Great mark. Play him deep in the square, and for a lengthy period. He can't be expected to improve as a player if he's not given enough time in the firsts.
What Cloke's problem is/was is irrelevant in my opinion. The point is, Collingwood have invested heavily in the football department to provide their key forward with the personal coaching that he needs and fix the problem. Though as I said, his kicking had improved dramatically over the last couple of years, but the Magpies saw fit the other day to hire a coach to further improve it.
Levi needs one on one coaching and plenty of time dedicated to it. Anyone who has played footy here would know that pre-seasons can be dominated by running, and very little ball-use. That's fine so Levi must want to fix his kicking by putting in extra hours on the track. Someone needs to speak to him and say that 2014 could be his breakout year, and with the help of a personal coach, he can achieve it with his own determination.
I agree with what you have said. Levi needs to be mentored one on one and taught how to kick. He also needs to get his endurance working for him. Rowe needs to be taught how to present and work on his endurance also. Henderson can't do it all alone in the forward 50m.
What Cloke's problem is/was is irrelevant in my opinion. The point is, Collingwood have invested heavily in the football department to provide their key forward with the personal coaching that he needs and fix the problem. Though as I said, his kicking had improved dramatically over the last couple of years, but the Magpies saw fit the other day to hire a coach to further improve it.
Levi needs one on one coaching and plenty of time dedicated to it. Anyone who has played footy here would know that pre-seasons can be dominated by running, and very little ball-use. That's fine so Levi must want to fix his kicking by putting in extra hours on the track. Someone needs to speak to him and say that 2014 could be his breakout year, and with the help of a personal coach, he can achieve it with his own determination.
I agree with what you have said. Levi needs to be mentored one on one and taught how to kick. He also needs to get his endurance working for him. Rowe needs to be taught how to present and work on his endurance also. Henderson can't do it all alone in the forward 50m.
Levi also has the option of seeking out help off his own bat. Judd does it all the time. When he first came across, he hired a running coach for private sessions at Olympic park. These young peanuts need to start showing some initiative.
What Cloke's problem is/was is irrelevant in my opinion. The point is, Collingwood have invested heavily in the football department to provide their key forward with the personal coaching that he needs and fix the problem. Though as I said, his kicking had improved dramatically over the last couple of years, but the Magpies saw fit the other day to hire a coach to further improve it.
Levi needs one on one coaching and plenty of time dedicated to it. Anyone who has played footy here would know that pre-seasons can be dominated by running, and very little ball-use. That's fine so Levi must want to fix his kicking by putting in extra hours on the track. Someone needs to speak to him and say that 2014 could be his breakout year, and with the help of a personal coach, he can achieve it with his own determination.
I agree with what you have said. Levi needs to be mentored one on one and taught how to kick. He also needs to get his endurance working for him. Rowe needs to be taught how to present and work on his endurance also. Henderson can't do it all alone in the forward 50m.
Levi also has the option of seeking out help off his own bat. Judd does it all the time. When he first came across, he hired a running coach for private sessions at Olympic park. These young peanuts need to start showing some initiative.
I agree. At the end of the day, it's entirely up to Levi whether or not he's fair dinkum about improving his kicking and staking his claim for a regular spot in our forward 50.
Here is how the media experts think our starting 22 will be like. I can't see Everitt and Menzel missing too many games.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/herald-sun-experts-predict-how-carlton-will-line-up-in-2014/story-fni5f5nx-1226793283506
No amount of concentration can overcome a technique like that. The action itself needs a complete overhaul.
But he has kicked some excellent goals, consistency/repeatability seems to be his problem. Are the good ones just down to chance?
The one from the boundary against the Scum he sliced a centering kick if that's the one you're thinking of so yes IMO the laws of physics say he will hit one sweetly every once in a while. IMO of course. ;)
Here is how the media experts think our starting 22 will be like. I can't see Everitt and Menzel missing too many games.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/herald-sun-experts-predict-how-carlton-will-line-up-in-2014/story-fni5f5nx-1226793283506
I recall Parko saying, in reference to the best 22, that it changes at least 20% from season to season if you are going to progress and be successful. With that in mind I believe the HUN side is a yawn. They took no risks.
There will be 3 or 4 blokes (maybe more) than we believe are a lock-in week in week out who will, however, fail to be in our best this year. Falling by the wayside could be Tuohy; could be Armfield; could be McInnes; could be Scotland; could be Lucas; could be Watson; could be Rowe; could be Casboult; could be Carrazzo. Might even be Dinger despite fronting up so well.
A progressive side embraces changes, even if it means dumping favourites. And if Gibbs is wavering in terms of commitment - f*ck him off now. You don't want to commit now? Then sit the season out... we don't need the media speculation and distraction. Sadly, McKay probably doesn't have the cods for such a decision/stance. Ruthlessly successful teams do not tolerate a lack of commitment/loyalty and are bold in their decisions.
Here is how the media experts think our starting 22 will be like. I can't see Everitt and Menzel missing too many games.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/herald-sun-experts-predict-how-carlton-will-line-up-in-2014/story-fni5f5nx-1226793283506
Jarrad Waite (30,168)
Didn't know he had played that many games. :P
I would have Curnow and Armfield out of that side. I would pencil in Everitt for 22+ games and rotate kids through.
You would think at worst Curnow and Armfield would get a gig as a sub. They both would get a gig with Mick on a permanent basis because they give us the run and carry he wants us to have in my opinion. ;)
You would think at worst Curnow and Armfield would get a gig as a sub. They both would get a gig with Mick on a permanent basis because they give us the run and carry he wants us to have in my opinion. ;)
Yeah, I just reckon their disposal isn't good enough and they don't hurt the opposition when we have the ball. I wouldn't play more than one negating type player and if you include Carrazzo as a tagger, then there's no room for Curnow and Armfield imo. I still think they'll get a few games throughout the year and offer something when they do. Just not best 22.
@MI
There's something in that mate IMO. When Army and Curnow struggle to get a game then that's an indication we are getting somewhere.
With Curnow doing such a good job last year, don't be surprised if Carrazzo is found a different role this year, like they did to Simpson last year. Just a hunch!
With Curnow doing such a good job last year, don't be surprised if Carrazzo is found a different role this year, like they did to Simpson last year. Just a hunch!
Could be right too BUT Curnow needs to improve his disposal and also hurt the opposition more in a positive sense in order secure his spot in the first 22 - just my take.
With Curnow doing such a good job last year, don't be surprised if Carrazzo is found a different role this year, like they did to Simpson last year. Just a hunch!
Could be right too BUT Curnow needs to improve his disposal and also hurt the opposition more in a positive sense in order secure his spot in the first 22 - just my take.
I thought Curnow's disposal and his decision making (in choosing the right disposal option) improved considerably during the course of the season as his confidence grew.
He had been a fringe player fora long time at several clubs - no doubt it would have taken time for him to believe he 'belonged' - MM seems good at giving players that all important extra dose of self belief.
@FB
Yes Curnow did seem to be on the improve last year and let's hope he goes on with it this year. Could become a very handy player for us if he can.
Here is how the media experts think our starting 22 will be like. I can't see Everitt and Menzel missing too many games.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/herald-sun-experts-predict-how-carlton-will-line-up-in-2014/story-fni5f5nx-1226793283506
No, or Docherty really either !
Great news about Tommy Bell though. Have to wait and see if it's just another one of those pump up the tyres stories that we hear this time of the year.
Tom Bell arrived back at training as if he was preparing for the Hawaiian ironman. Has shed kilos from his massive frame and has been flying in the time-trials. Received a rookie elevation and maybe the beast is about to unleash.
Hope this is the 'kiss of death' for the bloke.
@FB
Yes Curnow did seem to be on the improve last year and let's hope he goes on with it this year. Could become a very handy player for us if he can.
Fourth in the B&F Cookie! The Match Committee obviously appreciated his work and I think he'll be a lock in in our best 22 this season.
A little more depth means more competition for spots and that should keep players on their toes. It should also mean better managed workloads for our older players and the youngsters. Perhaps even selecting players for specific roles to negate or exploit opposition players.
@DJC
4th in the B&F eh! He's crept up on me a bit. I can't say I've been taking a lot of notice of him and I've probably not given him full credit - I'll look out for him more this year.
@DJC
4th in the B&F eh! He's crept up on me a bit. I can't say I've been taking a lot of notice of him and I've probably not given him full credit - I'll look out for him more this year.
I think a lot of his work goes unnoticed Cookie. He kept a lot of good players quiet and managed to inflict a bit of damage offensively. He's just not eyecatching like Walker, Simpson, Yarran, etc.
He's another of our rookie success stories; we must have some astute recruiting staff ::)
@DJC
4th in the B&F eh! He's crept up on me a bit. I can't say I've been taking a lot of notice of him and I've probably not given him full credit - I'll look out for him more this year.
I think a lot of his work goes unnoticed Cookie. He kept a lot of good players quiet and managed to inflict a bit of damage offensively. He's just not eyecatching like Walker, Simpson, Yarran, etc.
He's another of our rookie success stories; we must have some astute recruiting staff ::)
Curnow became more than just a tagger when he started running hard the opposite direction and making his disposals count. The new Carrazzo of the side without a doubt. And plays it fair.
Tom Bell arrived back at training as if he was preparing for the Hawaiian ironman. Has shed kilos from his massive frame and has been flying in the time-trials. Received a rookie elevation and maybe the beast is about to unleash.
Hope this is the 'kiss of death' for the bloke.
Don't you rate him? Why?
Think he's tracking nicely. Kicked that winning goal vs PA. Got some heart, thats sorely been missing in recent years. Not our worst by a long way.
@DJC
4th in the B&F eh! He's crept up on me a bit. I can't say I've been taking a lot of notice of him and I've probably not given him full credit - I'll look out for him more this year.
I think a lot of his work goes unnoticed Cookie. He kept a lot of good players quiet and managed to inflict a bit of damage offensively. He's just not eyecatching like Walker, Simpson, Yarran, etc.
He's another of our rookie success stories; we must have some astute recruiting staff ::)
Curnow became more than just a tagger when he started running hard the opposite direction and making his disposals count. The new Carrazzo of the side without a doubt. And plays it fair.
Exactly PI2C, he's no Anthony Franchina but he is an elite runner.
@DJC
4th in the B&F eh! He's crept up on me a bit. I can't say I've been taking a lot of notice of him and I've probably not given him full credit - I'll look out for him more this year.
I think a lot of his work goes unnoticed Cookie. He kept a lot of good players quiet and managed to inflict a bit of damage offensively. He's just not eyecatching like Walker, Simpson, Yarran, etc.
He's another of our rookie success stories; we must have some astute recruiting staff ::)
Curnow became more than just a tagger when he started running hard the opposite direction and making his disposals count. The new Carrazzo of the side without a doubt. And plays it fair.
Exactly PI2C, he's no Anthony Franchina but he is an elite runner.
Hehe, I was was a Franchina fan for life when he sent Nicky Winmar loopy at the G that day!
We could probably do with a kicking coach to help the new Irish boys out and Levi as well.
What do our current coaches do?
We could probably do with a kicking coach to help the new Irish boys out and Levi as well.
What do our current coaches do?
By the look of things, not enough coaching on how to kick goals from a set shot.
@DJC
4th in the B&F eh! He's crept up on me a bit. I can't say I've been taking a lot of notice of him and I've probably not given him full credit - I'll look out for him more this year.
I think a lot of his work goes unnoticed Cookie. He kept a lot of good players quiet and managed to inflict a bit of damage offensively. He's just not eyecatching like Walker, Simpson, Yarran, etc.
He's another of our rookie success stories; we must have some astute recruiting staff ::)
Curnow became more than just a tagger when he started running hard the opposite direction and making his disposals count. The new Carrazzo of the side without a doubt. And plays it fair.
Exactly PI2C, he's no Anthony Franchina but he is an elite runner.
Hehe, I was was a Franchina fan for life when he sent Nicky Winmar loopy at the G that day!
No doubt Tribey will stick his head in at some point and have his words about Franchina :P
Not sold on Curnow myself. Just a reflection on how far a fall from grace our mid field has had.
But all good midfields have that run with type player. Curnow is ours. I guess for us to really challenge players like he and Bell need to step it up another couple of cogs.
Anyone here seen that bloke at Carlton games who brings a bell and rings it whenever Tommy Bell gets the ball? (Maybe said bloke is even on here!) Pisser of a bloke. ;D
We could probably do with a kicking coach to help the new Irish boys out and Levi as well.
What do our current coaches do?
I think they would spend most of their time coaching a group. Not a whole lot of one-on one-coaching, especially on basic fundamentals of the game. The Pies identified they needed a designated kicking coach for Cloke and if Levi was to make it as a player he needs a kicking coach as well. Having one on board would also benefit the Irish blokes as an added bonus.
It's not uncommon to hire specialist coaches.
@DJC
4th in the B&F eh! He's crept up on me a bit. I can't say I've been taking a lot of notice of him and I've probably not given him full credit - I'll look out for him more this year.
I think a lot of his work goes unnoticed Cookie. He kept a lot of good players quiet and managed to inflict a bit of damage offensively. He's just not eyecatching like Walker, Simpson, Yarran, etc.
He's another of our rookie success stories; we must have some astute recruiting staff ::)
Curnow became more than just a tagger when he started running hard the opposite direction and making his disposals count. The new Carrazzo of the side without a doubt. And plays it fair.
LIKE
Curnow is highly underrated by quite a few here. He has some endurance which suits his game and he is prepared to run both ways. He has the making of a solid mid that you can rely on. I'm certain he will show us more value this season. Many may change their mind on his abilities.
We could probably do with a kicking coach to help the new Irish boys out and Levi as well.
What do our current coaches do?
I think they would spend most of their time coaching a group. Not a whole lot of one-on one-coaching, especially on basic fundamentals of the game. The Pies identified they needed a designated kicking coach for Cloke and if Levi was to make it as a player he needs a kicking coach as well. Having one on board would also benefit the Irish blokes as an added bonus.
It's not uncommon to hire specialist coaches.
The problem with hiring a kicking coach is that the fitness staff won't let the players practice kicking :-\
We could probably do with a kicking coach to help the new Irish boys out and Levi as well.
What do our current coaches do?
I think they would spend most of their time coaching a group. Not a whole lot of one-on one-coaching, especially on basic fundamentals of the game. The Pies identified they needed a designated kicking coach for Cloke and if Levi was to make it as a player he needs a kicking coach as well. Having one on board would also benefit the Irish blokes as an added bonus.
It's not uncommon to hire specialist coaches.
The problem with hiring a kicking coach is that the fitness staff won't let the players practice kicking :-\
Yeah, it's a bit annoying. That's why I was saying Levi might have to replace any ruck training with kicking practice to even it out a little. I would have him behind Kreuzer, Warnock, Wood and Rowe as ruck options anyway.
We could probably do with a kicking coach to help the new Irish boys out and Levi as well.
What do our current coaches do?
I think they would spend most of their time coaching a group. Not a whole lot of one-on one-coaching, especially on basic fundamentals of the game. The Pies identified they needed a designated kicking coach for Cloke and if Levi was to make it as a player he needs a kicking coach as well. Having one on board would also benefit the Irish blokes as an added bonus.
It's not uncommon to hire specialist coaches.
The problem with hiring a kicking coach is that the fitness staff won't let the players practice kicking :-\
Yeah, it's a bit annoying. That's why I was saying Levi might have to replace any ruck training with kicking practice to even it out a little. I would have him behind Kreuzer, Warnock, Wood and Rowe as ruck options anyway.
I'd have Levi ahead of Rowe as a ruckman, but behind the 3 true ruckmen. Still that puts him at the top of the heap as a relief ruckman if we decide to go 1 specialist ruck, or are forced to. In any event, Levi must surely be a special case given how much an improvement in his kicking would transform him as a player.
Strap him to a chair with his eyes pinned open and be forced to watch footage of Peter McKenna. Problem solved. ;D
Simmo is an interesting one. Wonder if he can produce again this year. A lot of those skinny blokes seem to have some durability but he gets knocked around a bit!
Backs Tuohy. Jamo. Scotland
H / b Everett Watson Simpson
C. Daisy Gibbs. Walker
H/F. Yazz. Hendo. Menzall
F. Cas. Waite. Garlett
Kruz. Murphy McLean
Judd Robo Bell Curno
Simmo is an interesting one. Wonder if he can produce again this year. A lot of those skinny blokes seem to have some durability but he gets knocked around a bit!
Thing is if you're only a slight frame and playing AFL, you've got to push yourself that extra bit to be harder and more aggressive at the ball than the others...otherwise you won't have a very long or successful career.
I'm not sure I can agree about the lighter frame body players theory there. Fletcher is big in the body and he has busted his b@lls for years now. Will he retire before 40 or even consider it ? He was tall but small frame. SOS wasn't a huge frame but he was strong and more than capable against big forwards. Simo is our Bartel. Stop the opponent and get the ball out of defence. He does it well and hopefully for years to come.
Backs Tuohy. Jamo. Scotland
H / b Everett Watson Simpson
C. Daisy Gibbs. Walker
H/F. Yazz. Hendo. Menzall
F. Cas. Waite. Garlett
Kruz. Murphy McLean
Judd Robo Bell Curno
My best 22 is very similar to yours
Spine is identical with Jamo, Watto, Gibbs, Hendo, Waitey
HB's' 1AW and Simmo select themselves there after their 2013 season, to put it simply they were sublime and must continue there
Back Pockets: 2E in one, give AE a go there
Wings: I'd go Robbo and Thomas
HF's: Menzell and Yazz
FF's Jeffy and Kruze
On Ball Brigage: 206, Murph and Juddy
Bench: Brock, Ed, Carrots, Doc
Unlucky Bell Army although either could slot it in easy
So for the record my round one side would be:
Everitt Jamo* 2E*
1AW* Watto* Simmo*
Robbo Gibbsy* Daisy*
Yazz* Hendo* Menzell
Jeffy* Waitey* Kruze*
206* Murph* Juddy*
Brock* Ed* Carrots* Doc
My way of thinking here is:
1. 18 players in my opinion select themselves if fit (see those with a *). Form the spine, 2 genuine rucks, the rest of the jigsaw goes together as above.
2. I think we can slot the 3 main new boys in (Thomas, Doc and AE) to infuse something new and potentially exciting.
3. Curnow gets in purely on his running power and work ethic. Same with Carrots.
4. From what I saw of Menzell last year, he oozes class. A good pre-season and he needs to be given a good go in 2014.
Looking at the Herald Sun's best 22 for Carlton - we can potentially field a team with 17 of the 22 having over 80 games experience. Everitt would make that 18.
That's a pretty solid core and you are either in your premiership window when your list looks like this or you're still hanging onto players you should have delisted years ago.
The biggest worry for me is Watson. For him to come good it would be massive for our season, however, that just looks so unrealistic at this stage. Still only 21, 16 games experience - trouble with injuries and form and pace is a serious concern.
Can Everitt hold down CHB?
Can we field a potent forward line without Hendo and settle him at CHB for the year?
HS team:
B: Andrew Walker (27, 165 games), Michael Jamison (27, 111), Zach Tuohy (24, 54)
HB: Heath Scotland (33, 264), Matthew Watson (21, 16), Kade Simpson (29, 200)
C: Andrew Carazzo (29, 164), Brock McLean (27, 141), Bryce Gibbs (24, 155)
HF: Dale Thomas (26, 157), Lachie Henderson (23, 84), Mitch Robinson (24, 88)
F: Jeff Garlett (24, 98), Jarrad Waite (30,168), Matthew Kreuzer (24, 105)
R: Robbie Warnock (26, 70), Chris Judd (30, 259), Marc Murphy (26, 165)
INTER: Ed Curnow (24, 51), Dennis Armfield (26, 105), Tom Bell (22, 16), Chris Yarran (22, 84)
Swinging players from backline to forward line is never a recipe for success. Mick has had a year - he should be able to settle his best team for the majority of this season.
Looking at the Herald Sun's best 22 for Carlton - we can potentially field a team with 17 of the 22 having over 80 games experience. Everitt would make that 18.
That's a pretty solid core and you are either in your premiership window when your list looks like this or you're still hanging onto players you should have delisted years ago.
The biggest worry for me is Watson. For him to come good it would be massive for our season, however, that just looks so unrealistic at this stage. Still only 21, 16 games experience - trouble with injuries and form and pace is a serious concern.
Can Everitt hold down CHB?
Can we field a potent forward line without Hendo and settle him at CHB for the year?
HS team:
B: Andrew Walker (27, 165 games), Michael Jamison (27, 111), Zach Tuohy (24, 54)
HB: Heath Scotland (33, 264), Matthew Watson (21, 16), Kade Simpson (29, 200)
C: Andrew Carazzo (29, 164), Brock McLean (27, 141), Bryce Gibbs (24, 155)
HF: Dale Thomas (26, 157), Lachie Henderson (23, 84), Mitch Robinson (24, 88)
F: Jeff Garlett (24, 98), Jarrad Waite (30,168), Matthew Kreuzer (24, 105)
R: Robbie Warnock (26, 70), Chris Judd (30, 259), Marc Murphy (26, 165)
INTER: Ed Curnow (24, 51), Dennis Armfield (26, 105), Tom Bell (22, 16), Chris Yarran (22, 84)
Swinging players from backline to forward line is never a recipe for success. Mick has had a year - he should be able to settle his best team for the majority of this season.
I went with Watson in my 2nd team (had Jamison, Rowe and Everitt as my talls in my original which I am now going back to) but I do go back and forth re him as I am not convinced at all but feel he is also better suited up forward. Maybe as a 3rd tall at this stage but certainly to me looks more at home, free and natural there than down back. I reckon Everitt is a definite in our best 22, my best 18 anyway, and I have Docherty very much in the frame as a replacement for the likes of Simpson and Tuohy and moreso Tuohy as I would like to unleash the raging bulls in Tuohy and bell into the midfield and have a very much 'in your face' style in there (and all across the ground - at both AFL and VFL level).
Id be grooming Rowe to go down back and do a job as the 2nd key defenders after Jamison to play a Rory Thompson type role. Needs to work on fitness, movemnet and pace but he started that far back last year I reckon it was tough going. he did well. If we is to make it at AFL level it wont be as a tall forward/ruck IMHO. He is a fierce competitor and Id happily trial him at least down back to take on the monsters. add the taller roaming types as 3rd and 4th talls down back - Everitt and one other of Walker, Bootsma, White or McInnes.
Re Docherty, he may well begin the season in the VFL but would be inmy sqaud of 25 or 26 with an eye to see how he goes in the preseason games and hopefully he can take over from Tuohy as the team's no.1 small/medium defender. His foot skills are sublime as are Tuohy's.
yarran jamison mcinnes
docherty watson walker
simpson mclean tuohy
thomas henderson carrazzo
menzel waite murphy
kruezer judd gibbs
warnock graham bell everitt
I cant fit in ellard scotland garlett cripps lucas????? :-\ i also think temay & holman might play some good footy in 2014
Garlett is a walk up start imo.
@FB
Yes Curnow did seem to be on the improve last year and let's hope he goes on with it this year. Could become a very handy player for us if he can.
Fourth in the B&F Cookie! The Match Committee obviously appreciated his work and I think he'll be a lock in in our best 22 this season.
A little more depth means more competition for spots and that should keep players on their toes. It should also mean better managed workloads for our older players and the youngsters. Perhaps even selecting players for specific roles to negate or exploit opposition players.
Called him AA prior to when he did his shoulder vs the Saints in 2012.
The stats from summer 2012/13 showed that when he was in the side, Judd played well. Says it all.
In regards to Curnow I see him as the Carrazzo replacement to a degree, both running machines that run with the oppositions best, although I think Curnow lacks a little polish that Carrazzo has. I am a fan nonetheless, he is busts his gut every week, got to appreciate that and need more of it.
Will be interesting to see how often they play in the same side, if both available. I would prefer less tagging from Mick this year anyway, and a more play to win attitude rather than play not to lose, especially against the top sides.
Garlett is a walk up start imo.
agree, pace and and game breaker when he is on. I have a feeling he will got to the next level minus Eddie.
Garlett is a walk up start imo.
agree, pace and and game breaker when he is on. I have a feeling he will got to the next level minus Eddie.
Both him and Yaz went to another level in the games Betts missed I reckon. Yaz Smashed Russell in that game against the Pies and took home 3 votes against the Weagles two weeks later. Garlett was AA in the first 10 games or so of the year around the time Betts missed those 6 games. Really looking forward to not having Betts to be honest, although I loved him as a Blue.
If it takes one missing player to let two other players become super stars, then I say bring it on. Yarran and Garlett can be absolute freaks. Betts was very good but they have an opportunity to be even better.
If it takes one missing player to let two other players become super stars, then I say bring it on. Yarran and Garlett can be absolute freaks. Betts was very good but they have an opportunity to be even better.
I think Garlett could be better than Betts. At the same age, Garlett has kicked 171 goals and Betts 165, but Betts had played 22 more games than him.
If it takes one missing player to let two other players become super stars, then I say bring it on. Yarran and Garlett can be absolute freaks. Betts was very good but they have an opportunity to be even better.
I think Garlett could be better than Betts. At the same age, Garlett has kicked 171 goals and Betts 165, but Betts had played 22 more games than him.
What I like about Garlett and Yarran is that they can carry the ball with real pace from CHB to the forward 50m and kill all chasers trying to stop them. Then nailing that goal we need. I think they need to work on their conversion. Betts had the yips at set shots over the last few seasons. The other 2 were suspect at times to. If you have that pace, and X-factor you need to finish and especially nail the set shots at goal. Thomas could teach them this skill. Didn't know about the above comparison MilkIt. Thanks for that. ;)
Betts has one clear advantage over Garlett and Yarran and that is his marking ability. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Betts is one of the best marks for a small forward.
However, Garlett and Yarran are more complete footballers than Eddie and can make a contribution up the ground and in defence whereas Eddie is a forward first and foremost.
Like many others, I was sad to see Eddie leave but we've got his position covered and then some. :)
Betts has one clear advantage over Garlett and Yarran and that is his marking ability. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Betts is one of the best marks for a small forward.
However, Garlett and Yarran are more complete footballers than Eddie and can make a contribution up the ground and in defence whereas Eddie is a forward first and foremost.
Like many others, I was sad to see Eddie leave but we've got his position covered and then some. :)
As good as his marking was I'm glad we will no longer se him as the lone forward trying to out mark 2 or 3 opposition players, geez it drove me nuts!
If it takes one missing player to let two other players become super stars, then I say bring it on. Yarran and Garlett can be absolute freaks. Betts was very good but they have an opportunity to be even better.
I think Garlett could be better than Betts. At the same age, Garlett has kicked 171 goals and Betts 165, but Betts had played 22 more games than him.
What I like about Garlett and Yarran is that they can carry the ball with real pace from CHB to the forward 50m and kill all chasers trying to stop them. Then nailing that goal we need. I think they need to work on their conversion. Betts had the yips at set shots over the last few seasons. The other 2 were suspect at times to. If you have that pace, and X-factor you need to finish and especially nail the set shots at goal. Thomas could teach them this skill. Didn't know about the above comparison MilkIt. Thanks for that. ;)
Yarran was an exceptional shot at goal - before he came to Carlton!
Yarran needs to play across half back, Menzel to take Eddie's spot.
Yarran needs to play across half back, Menzel to take Eddie's spot.
Menzel has to earn Eddie's spot!
I watched the interview with Mick yesterday and I was most interested in his brief discussion of draft picks. To paraphrase, he compared Menzel, as a high draft pick, with Cachia and pointed out that Cachia played more games than Menzel. He also said that this lot of draft picks were ready to play AFL and expected a couple to force their way into the side.
Menzel needs to learn how to keep his feet or he'll be bypassed.
Yarran needs to play across half back, Menzel to take Eddie's spot.
Menzel has to earn Eddie's spot!
I watched the interview with Mick yesterday and I was most interested in his brief discussion of draft picks. To paraphrase, he compared Menzel, as a high draft pick, with Cachia and pointed out that Cachia played more games than Menzel. He also said that this lot of draft picks were ready to play AFL and expected a couple to force their way into the side.
Menzel needs to learn how to keep his feet or he'll be bypassed.
Yeah I don't think he was given a decent run at it personally He wasn't ready for the midfield and there was no room up front with Eddie and Jeffy. He certainly showed he's a dangerous forward early in one game (can't remember which one) but he moved and marked very nicely on the lead.
Yarran needs to play across half back, Menzel to take Eddie's spot.
Menzel has to earn Eddie's spot!
I watched the interview with Mick yesterday and I was most interested in his brief discussion of draft picks. To paraphrase, he compared Menzel, as a high draft pick, with Cachia and pointed out that Cachia played more games than Menzel. He also said that this lot of draft picks were ready to play AFL and expected a couple to force their way into the side.
Menzel needs to learn how to keep his feet or he'll be bypassed.
Yeah I don't think he was given a decent run at it personally He wasn't ready for the midfield and there was no room up front with Eddie and Jeffy. He certainly showed he's a dangerous forward early in one game (can't remember which one) but he moved and marked very nicely on the lead.
His first quarters against Essendon and the Doggies were both very good. 2 goals in each from memory. Went missing for the rest of the match, though.
Nice tackling too
I feel we have beauty on our hands with Menzel. As mentioned I just think he does everything well, just a natural footballer he is, not an athlete-come-footballer. I hope gets a good run at it this year, but I also feel he needs to prove he deserves it. All things being equal he should play quite regularly this year.
I feel we have beauty on our hands with Menzel. As mentioned I just think he does everything well, just a natural footballer he is, not an athlete-come-footballer. I hope gets a good run at it this year, but I also feel he needs to prove he deserves it. All things being equal he should play quite regularly this year.
Have the same feeling JC although others on here are not yet convinced about him.
I feel we have beauty on our hands with Menzel. As mentioned I just think he does everything well, just a natural footballer he is, not an athlete-come-footballer. I hope gets a good run at it this year, but I also feel he needs to prove he deserves it. All things being equal he should play quite regularly this year.
Have the same feeling JC although others on here are not yet convinced about him.
He, like all others his age/stage, is a work in progress.
I reckon MM is keen to fast track him as that third tall / lead up forward. He'll get game time this year, probably from NAB onwards. Up to him to take his opportunities. Like any other player when there is plenty of competition he'll need to show he's made of the 'right stuff'.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2013-09-24/2013-review-troy-menzel (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2013-09-24/2013-review-troy-menzel)
That being said, he is an Adelaide based player, playing his second season of footy in the big smoke.
He could just as easily have second year blues, and like Malthouse said, he is not looking for these guys to become mainstays in the lineup just yet.
Ive always stated that other teams recruiting looks better because they give their new youngsters time to slowly integrate into a team that is already a well oiled machine and this has been our biggest hinderance over the last 10 or so years. So when we throw the youngster to the wolves and they get eaten its us not developing them properly when in actual fact, its just a matter of them not being pushed to develope in training and earn a spot because they became walk up starters.
Positive signs and progress is all I need to see from Menzel this year, and if we get more, fantastic.
yarran jamison mcinnes
docherty watson walker
simpson mclean tuohy
thomas henderson carrazzo
menzel waite murphy
kruezer judd gibbs
warnock graham bell everitt
I cant fit in ellard scotland garlett cripps lucas????? :-\ i also think temay & holman might play some good footy in 2014
Interesting to see that very few have Levi Casboult in their starting lineup - he'll almost certainly be a key member of the team in 2014. Also, I'm not sure that MM rates Yarran's defensive game.
Docherty Jamison Everitt
Tuohy Henderson Simpson
Thomas Gibbs Yarran
Murphy Casboult Walker
Kreuzer, Waite, Garlett
Warnock Judd Curnow
Carazzo, Bell, Graham, Menzel
Others......Armfield, Scotland, Cripps, McInnes, Watson, Lucas, McLean, Cachia unlucky
@JonDorotich
I think it'll be a fight out between Watson and Casboult for a spot in the best 22. I think most of us had Watson ahead of Casboult, which would allow Henderson to play FF, but from the reports I've heard maybe Casboult is ahead and Henderson will play down back again this year.
Casboult is a woeful kick and while he may be threading some goals at training I have my doubts under pressure in a real game he can do the same.
You cant drop the ball like he does and expect to hit every kick properly.......the only poor kick for goal come good I have seen has been Stuart Loewe and I guess if you took as many marks as he did you would get plenty of practice kicking for goal.
Its useless having a winning midfield if you cant convert opportunities and I'm all for Henderson playing forward with Waite....Levi will have his moments but Henderson is a reliable player who kicks straight.
I think we need to gamble with Watson, Giles or anyone else down back so Henderson can play forward......
@EB1
Tend to agree with this. If Levi can begin to kick consistently accurately in 2014 then it would be a massive bonus for us. Until he shows that then I'm happy to see Hendo go forward - he is a proven accurate kick for goal.
Sorry, but trying to pick a best 22 in January is like judging your blind date on what her friends say about her/him.
Remember that dude we got from the Weagles (no. 22 from memory) who trained the house down, and was an on-field dud?
In fact, there is no such thing as a 'best 22'. It is a nonsense, even, to think such a thing. So limiting. There is only a thing called 'the list' from where we pick the best 22 for 'this week'.
When I look at our list I could easily imagine our best 22 to be 34 blokes. And that is close to how it should be.
Sorry, but trying to pick a best 22 in January is like judging your blind date on what her friends say about her/him.
Remember that dude we got from the Weagles (no. 22 from memory) who trained the house down, and was an on-field dud?
In fact, there is no such thing as a 'best 22'. It is a nonsense, even, to think such a thing. So limiting. There is only a thing called 'the list' from where we pick the best 22 for 'this week'.
When I look at our list I could easily imagine our best 22 to be 34 blokes. And that is close to how it should be.
Callum Chambers is the guy you were thinking of, and he was super fast hence the hype when we got him at the end of 2004.
Agree that we finally have a list with some serious depth that will hopefully allow us to challenge deep into September with a little luck.
Chambers had a ripping 2005 NAB Cup series...but that's about it.
Sorry, but trying to pick a best 22 in January is like judging your blind date on what her friends say about her/him.
Remember that dude we got from the Weagles (no. 22 from memory) who trained the house down, and was an on-field dud?
In fact, there is no such thing as a 'best 22'. It is a nonsense, even, to think such a thing. So limiting. There is only a thing called 'the list' from where we pick the best 22 for 'this week'.
When I look at our list I could easily imagine our best 22 to be 34 blokes. And that is close to how it should be.
Callum Chambers is the guy you were thinking of, and he was super fast hence the hype when we got him at the end of 2004.
Agree that we finally have a list with some serious depth that will hopefully allow us to challenge deep into September with a little luck.
We said the same thing in 2012.
Will be interesting to see how the pro-Malthousonites react if we are poor again this year.
Cop a few injuries to your best players, added with suspensions and its always going to be tough. This is why I think ratten got unfairly treated. On the other side, he got his marching orders for the wrong reasons...if anything it should have been for poor list management/shoddy recruiting.
Cop a few injuries to your best players, added with suspensions and its always going to be tough. This is why I think ratten got unfairly treated. On the other side, he got his marching orders for the wrong reasons...if anything it should have been for poor list management/shoddy recruiting.
Ratten was knifed by his playing group. The way that they played against the Gold Coast up there was his death knell. Had the players been united behind Ratten then fair enough, but its likely the club saw an opportunity to grab a coach who has a track record and this match was ultimately the one that cost him his job, because it was plain as day that the players were not playing for him.
Once you lose the playing group, you are dead man walking and its only a matter of time, unless the club trusts you to turn over the list (which Ratten had ample opportunity to do). Couple that with the fact that whenever the opportunity for a player to move on came up that the opportunity was generally taken, speaks for why it was a fair enough thought process.
Sorry, but trying to pick a best 22 in January is like judging your blind date on what her friends say about her/him.
Remember that dude we got from the Weagles (no. 22 from memory) who trained the house down, and was an on-field dud?
In fact, there is no such thing as a 'best 22'. It is a nonsense, even, to think such a thing. So limiting. There is only a thing called 'the list' from where we pick the best 22 for 'this week'.
When I look at our list I could easily imagine our best 22 to be 34 blokes. And that is close to how it should be.
Callum Chambers is the guy you were thinking of, and he was super fast hence the hype when we got him at the end of 2004.
Agree that we finally have a list with some serious depth that will hopefully allow us to challenge deep into September with a little luck.
We said the same thing in 2012.
Will be interesting to see how the pro-Malthousonites react if we are poor again this year.
...be more interesting to see how you react should we be very successful. Where do I send the humble pie? ;) ...and dozen eggs :)
Cop a few injuries to your best players, added with suspensions and its always going to be tough. This is why I think ratten got unfairly treated. On the other side, he got his marching orders for the wrong reasons...if anything it should have been for poor list management/shoddy recruiting.
Ratten was knifed by his playing group. The way that they played against the Gold Coast up there was his death knell. Had the players been united behind Ratten then fair enough, but its likely the club saw an opportunity to grab a coach who has a track record and this match was ultimately the one that cost him his job, because it was plain as day that the players were not playing for him.
Once you lose the playing group, you are dead man walking and its only a matter of time, unless the club trusts you to turn over the list (which Ratten had ample opportunity to do). Couple that with the fact that whenever the opportunity for a player to move on came up that the opportunity was generally taken, speaks for why it was a fair enough thought process.
In that case Malthouse has lost the players as well though, there were many poor performances under him as well. I think the playing list itself is 'lost', aint nobody going to fix it. Too many blokes that have had an easy run at it, fall for their own hype and are rated way too highly for players with their shortcomings.
Cop a few injuries to your best players, added with suspensions and its always going to be tough. This is why I think ratten got unfairly treated. On the other side, he got his marching orders for the wrong reasons...if anything it should have been for poor list management/shoddy recruiting.
Ratten was knifed by his playing group. The way that they played against the Gold Coast up there was his death knell. Had the players been united behind Ratten then fair enough, but its likely the club saw an opportunity to grab a coach who has a track record and this match was ultimately the one that cost him his job, because it was plain as day that the players were not playing for him.
Once you lose the playing group, you are dead man walking and its only a matter of time, unless the club trusts you to turn over the list (which Ratten had ample opportunity to do). Couple that with the fact that whenever the opportunity for a player to move on came up that the opportunity was generally taken, speaks for why it was a fair enough thought process.
In that case Malthouse has lost the players as well though, there were many poor performances under him as well. I think the playing list itself is 'lost', aint nobody going to fix it. Too many blokes that have had an easy run at it, fall for their own hype and are rated way too highly for players with their shortcomings.
So, Turnips Old Son, your glass is half empty eh? ;)
The players speak with a genuine respect re MM (past and present). He's not the kind of coach who loses his players... around 30 years in the top job is a reasonable testament to that! He openly admitted he didn't 'get' the group until rounds 4-6. But, yes, the expectations for this year are justifiably much higher than last season.
Now, can I top up that glass for you... :) :)
People carry on like Malthouse's sh1t doesn't stink. Whenever something goes wrong, there are always a million other reasons why it wasn't his fault. Reminds me of James Hirds and Essendon. Everything was Knights' fault according to most bombers fans, just like everything was supposedly rattens fault.
Sorry, but trying to pick a best 22 in January is like judging your blind date on what her friends say about her/him.
Remember that dude we got from the Weagles (no. 22 from memory) who trained the house down, and was an on-field dud?
In fact, there is no such thing as a 'best 22'. It is a nonsense, even, to think such a thing. So limiting. There is only a thing called 'the list' from where we pick the best 22 for 'this week'.
When I look at our list I could easily imagine our best 22 to be 34 blokes. And that is close to how it should be.
Callum Chambers is the guy you were thinking of, and he was super fast hence the hype when we got him at the end of 2004.
Agree that we finally have a list with some serious depth that will hopefully allow us to challenge deep into September with a little luck.
We said the same thing in 2012.
Will be interesting to see how the pro-Malthousonites react if we are poor again this year.
...be more interesting to see how you react should we be very successful. Where do I send the humble pie? ;) ...and dozen eggs :)
Mate humble pie would taste fantastic, bring it on!!
GozzMan, ya gotta give credit where credit is due...
...and I bet his crappola is on the beak!!!! ;)
Mate humble pie would taste fantastic, bring it on!!
Just credit Sticks and McKay for being the catalyst of the success... or our facilities... I think that's how it works :P
Sorry, but trying to pick a best 22 in January is like judging your blind date on what her friends say about her/him.
Remember that dude we got from the Weagles (no. 22 from memory) who trained the house down, and was an on-field dud?
In fact, there is no such thing as a 'best 22'. It is a nonsense, even, to think such a thing. So limiting. There is only a thing called 'the list' from where we pick the best 22 for 'this week'.
When I look at our list I could easily imagine our best 22 to be 34 blokes. And that is close to how it should be.
Callum Chambers is the guy you were thinking of, and he was super fast hence the hype when we got him at the end of 2004.
Agree that we finally have a list with some serious depth that will hopefully allow us to challenge deep into September with a little luck.
We said the same thing in 2012.
Will be interesting to see how the pro-Malthousonites react if we are poor again this year.
...be more interesting to see how you react should we be very successful. Where do I send the humble pie? ;) ...and dozen eggs :)
Mate humble pie would taste fantastic, bring it on!!
I'll deliver it personally! What beverage would you like with it? Spare no expense. ;D
Sorry, but trying to pick a best 22 in January is like judging your blind date on what her friends say about her/him.
Remember that dude we got from the Weagles (no. 22 from memory) who trained the house down, and was an on-field dud?
In fact, there is no such thing as a 'best 22'. It is a nonsense, even, to think such a thing. So limiting. There is only a thing called 'the list' from where we pick the best 22 for 'this week'.
When I look at our list I could easily imagine our best 22 to be 34 blokes. And that is close to how it should be.
Callum Chambers is the guy you were thinking of, and he was super fast hence the hype when we got him at the end of 2004.
Agree that we finally have a list with some serious depth that will hopefully allow us to challenge deep into September with a little luck.
We said the same thing in 2012.
Will be interesting to see how the pro-Malthousonites react if we are poor again this year.
...be more interesting to see how you react should we be very successful. Where do I send the humble pie? ;) ...and dozen eggs :)
Mate humble pie would taste fantastic, bring it on!!
I'll deliver it personally! What beverage would you like with it? Spare no expense. ;D
Pina Colada thanks!! :))
Can I have some humble pie and a beverage too? If so, a four n twenty and a stubby of VB please. ;D
Casboult is a woeful kick and while he may be threading some goals at training I have my doubts under pressure in a real game he can do the same.
You cant drop the ball like he does and expect to hit every kick properly.......the only poor kick for goal come good I have seen has been Stuart Loewe and I guess if you took as many marks as he did you would get plenty of practice kicking for goal.
Its useless having a winning midfield if you cant convert opportunities and I'm all for Henderson playing forward with Waite....Levi will have his moments but Henderson is a reliable player who kicks straight.
I think we need to gamble with Watson, Giles or anyone else down back so Henderson can play forward......
Pretty much put it all in a nutshell there Elwood. I think that Casboult will get chances though mostly as the 2nd ruck behind Kreuzer. I personally dont like Kreuzer and Warnock in the same side, its almost like playing two centres together on a basketball team, they both get confused. I know Watson is the great white hope for many of us but I also would really like them to have a look at Rowe at CHB, on paper looks a great idea I guess the big question would be endurance. We just need to start building around Henderson up forward and Waite as the sidekick, a must really.
Casboult is a woeful kick and while he may be threading some goals at training I have my doubts under pressure in a real game he can do the same.
You cant drop the ball like he does and expect to hit every kick properly.......the only poor kick for goal come good I have seen has been Stuart Loewe and I guess if you took as many marks as he did you would get plenty of practice kicking for goal.
Its useless having a winning midfield if you cant convert opportunities and I'm all for Henderson playing forward with Waite....Levi will have his moments but Henderson is a reliable player who kicks straight.
I think we need to gamble with Watson, Giles or anyone else down back so Henderson can play forward......
Pretty much put it all in a nutshell there Elwood. I think that Casboult will get chances though mostly as the 2nd ruck behind Kreuzer. I personally dont like Kreuzer and Warnock in the same side, its almost like playing two centres together on a basketball team, they both get confused. I know Watson is the great white hope for many of us but I also would really like them to have a look at Rowe at CHB, on paper looks a great idea I guess the big question would be endurance. We just need to start building around Henderson up forward and Waite as the sidekick, a must really.
JC....Agree on Warnock and Kruezer, both are No 1 ruckman but dont play the 2nd ruck/forward role that well and hence I think Malthouse dabbled last season with Casboult and Rowe as second ruckman hoping he could get a Leigh Brown type out of one of them. However both for various reasons fell short of what is required and I think MM will start with Warnock and Kruezer as the ruck double act in rnd 1 but I reckon that wont last long and he will look at probably Casboult as his No2 ruck/forward.
Rowe has never been fit enough for AFL footy and I remember Paul Roos commentating that when he had Rowe at the Swans he never applied himself or took the fitness side of things too seriously and thats why he ended up not making it.
I would be happy to try him at CHB in the NB's and have seen him play there and do ok but I just worry playing him at senior level in that position he wont have the tank to cover the ground required vs the mobile KP players...just hoping this pre season has seen him progress in terms of fitness because his skill level for a big bloke is good and he has the tools to be a decent player.
Cop a few injuries to your best players, added with suspensions and its always going to be tough. This is why I think ratten got unfairly treated. On the other side, he got his marching orders for the wrong reasons...if anything it should have been for poor list management/shoddy recruiting.
Ratten was knifed by his playing group. The way that they played against the Gold Coast up there was his death knell. Had the players been united behind Ratten then fair enough, but its likely the club saw an opportunity to grab a coach who has a track record and this match was ultimately the one that cost him his job, because it was plain as day that the players were not playing for him.
Once you lose the playing group, you are dead man walking and its only a matter of time, unless the club trusts you to turn over the list (which Ratten had ample opportunity to do). Couple that with the fact that whenever the opportunity for a player to move on came up that the opportunity was generally taken, speaks for why it was a fair enough thought process.
In that case Malthouse has lost the players as well though, there were many poor performances under him as well. I think the playing list itself is 'lost', aint nobody going to fix it. Too many blokes that have had an easy run at it, fall for their own hype and are rated way too highly for players with their shortcomings.
Yes and no.
We need to give Malthouse time (his 3 year contract) to show that he can win over the players and get them performing. Given the way we finished this last season, the players are onboard currently (Ratten achieved this in 2011). If at any stage he again appears to have lost the players, (2012 for Ratten, GC match was the final straw, the one prior to that was failing to show up against North, Port Adelaide, St. Kilda and Essendon (take your pick) and thats where it becomes clear the players stopped believing in their coach and the cause. This could be an issue amonst the group (we will decide whether or not Malthouse is dealing with that effectively by the end of his contract, perhaps even end of this season) and then from there we need to decided whether or not we move forward with or without either the coach or the playing group. Moving on 3 coaches in the space of time it takes to win over the playing group is not worthwhile, so we either trust Malthouse to rebuild, or rebuild with the next guy. Frankly, Id rather rebuild under Malthouse given the next coach is at present an unknown quantity (although I would be getting into Woosha to find out just how retired he is).
I agree re Mick being given at least another year to prove himself. I still disagree that Ratts had lost the players, they were well and truly behind him in the previous year although one of Judd's comments after Ratts' departure suggests the great man wasn't 100% behind him.
Fair enough Carroto. It appears we are at an agreement that we need time to get more information from here moving forward regarding whether or not we have been right or wrong to do what we have. In any case, we have acted which is better than inaction in most cases given we have tried to progress. Better to have tried and failed than to tread water especially if you are not confident in the future as things were looking at the time (true enough once Fev was gone).
I disagree that Ratten hadn't lost the group. Season 2012 showed that it just wasnt working. The writing was on the wall, and the Gold Coast game proved it. I swung a little bit during that season actually. There were times I was on board, and even at the end I think I was in denial, but I finally made peace with it, after I conducted my own review of the year.
The major concern was the fact that we seemed to just not show up when key hurdles kept coming up. Playing for top spot on the ladder, and unceremoniously smashed without a whimper against a waning Saint Kilda and a lack lustre showing against Adelaide (who were admittedly were very good in 2012) were the games where the cracks started appearing. The "flat patch" in the middle of the year was a major concern for a team that was 3 points from a preliminary final the previous year, particularly an inability to knock over a lack lustre Port Adelaide and when our season had everything riding on it against North Melbourne once again we failed to rock up. That was the death knell. The GC game happened when we were getting back into the equation due to other results falling our way more than anything else, and then the players "played dead" and by then it was already too late. That was just the straw that broke the camels back really. Mathematically it ended our season, and Ratten's job. Players at fault for that.
I agree re Mick being given at least another year to prove himself. I still disagree that Ratts had lost the players, they were well and truly behind him in the previous year although one of Judd's comments after Ratts' departure suggests the great man wasn't 100% behind him.
Ditto Murphy.
I agree re Mick being given at least another year to prove himself. I still disagree that Ratts had lost the players, they were well and truly behind him in the previous year although one of Judd's comments after Ratts' departure suggests the great man wasn't 100% behind him.
Ditto Murphy.
Didn't appreciate being told to 'win his own ball'?
He tried and then he busted his shoulder.
He tried and then he busted his shoulder.
Spot on, that's what was said to him prior to him going in for that ball and breaking his shoulder. I just don't think he's made for the tough stuff, in the few occasions he goes in hard he cops it just like the Dawks game last year.
He tried and then he busted his shoulder.
Spot on, that's what was said to him prior to him going in for that ball and breaking his shoulder. I just don't think he's made for the tough stuff, in the few occasions he goes in hard he cops it just like the Dawks game last year.
The timing just keeps working against him. Maybe Cripps, Robinson and Bell need to be in the squad for the tough stuff. They are bigger so it will be executed by them with less damage to their bodies. I hope Murphy getting injured in the past doesn't make him soft though. We need a tough captain, or give his role to a player that can handle a knock or two. Not the type that breaks bones though.
He tried and then he busted his shoulder.
Spot on, that's what was said to him prior to him going in for that ball and breaking his shoulder. I just don't think he's made for the tough stuff, in the few occasions he goes in hard he cops it just like the Dawks game last year.
The timing just keeps working against him. Maybe Cripps, Robinson and Bell need to be in the squad for the tough stuff. They are bigger so it will be executed by them with less damage to their bodies. I hope Murphy getting injured in the past doesn't make him soft though. We need a tough captain, or give his role to a player that can handle a knock or two. Not the type that breaks bones though.
Pretty sure Murph will never be soft. As per usual during our 'black' period, when we recruited top players we expected the world from them. Too much. But I really believe this is being addressed. Murph is just too small to be crunching his body against blokes 10 kgs heavier.
You're right, Green Stick, it's time for the bigger bodied mids to do the grunt work... I still believe Murph would be a class small forward who goes into the guts when needed.
He
is a tough skipper... but his real skill...is his skill!
With a proper pre season I suspect we will see really good things from Murph (provided he doesn't try to do what someone 95kgs should be doing!!).
Murphy was injured and couldnt run last season.....he got caught a lot and looked slow. He needs his pace back to extract himself from traffic and get away from taggers like Crowley...the latter isnt quick but beat Murphy to the ball because our man couldnt get out of second gear.
You add that injury to the pressure of being a 1st year captain and he had a season to forget.....I think he will be better in 2014 and then in 2015 I expect him to be a dominant player once Mick has the players he wants on the park and the structures worked out so Murphy can get some more easy ball and do the silky stuff that wins games.
Murphy was injured and couldnt run last season.....he got caught a lot and looked slow. He needs his pace back to extract himself from traffic and get away from taggers like Crowley...the latter isnt quick but beat Murphy to the ball because our man couldnt get out of second gear.
You add that injury to the pressure of being a 1st year captain and he had a season to forget.....I think he will be better in 2014 and then in 2015 I expect him to be a dominant player once Mick has the players he wants on the park and the structures worked out so Murphy can get some more easy ball and do the silky stuff that wins games.
Mick mentioned a lack of run so getting Daisy, Docherty and Everitt along with Cripps is a start because as you stated Judd and Murphy could be rested up forward or rested from games to heal properly. I know we lost Betts but he wasn't really a mid because of his lack of a tank. I hope your on the money with the next group of players we fish for. Especially with a few aging players, we need to top up with players that have another 100 games in them. I hope all the players I mentioned get regular games and become our best 22. It just helps balance our side better than we have looked recently. I have my eyes on Everitt reading he likes to run and carry, and can play as a defender or a forward role. He might need to be our next Waite with slightly less X-factor who can play both ends of the ground.
Murphy was injured and couldnt run last season.....he got caught a lot and looked slow. He needs his pace back to extract himself from traffic and get away from taggers like Crowley...the latter isnt quick but beat Murphy to the ball because our man couldnt get out of second gear.
You add that injury to the pressure of being a 1st year captain and he had a season to forget.....I think he will be better in 2014 and then in 2015 I expect him to be a dominant player once Mick has the players he wants on the park and the structures worked out so Murphy can get some more easy ball and do the silky stuff that wins games.
But he does get the easy ball, what I'm talking about his putting his body on the line when he has to (mandatory regardless of skill and size), tackling with intent and at least being accountable for his man when inside defensive 50. Sorry Elwood, I think you're a very smart bloke and rate your opinion but it is certainly NOT about getting more easy ball to Murphy. It's about being more accountable as a team and then mean EVERY player is accountable whether they're numero uno or number 38 on the list.
And just on that, who is the Murphy equivalent at the Hawks, Swans, Dockers or Cats who is told not to win any ball and just try and get easy receives? I think you'll find they don't exist. Whilst Murphy plays the way that he does we will not get any better and note when he DID change his game for a season back 2011 we were a far better side.
EB unfortunately I think you're right on both fronts, Rowe may never have aerobically what it takes to make it which is a shame he is a decent footballer. I also think that Warnock and Kreuzer will be the first combination MM will use if both are fit, but apparently Casboult is looking good acccording to Mclean so I guess we will see.
Warnock will be Warnock and get heaps of tapouts, but that combination I think needs Kreuzer to become what we thought he would be when drafted at number 1, someone who can impact the game all over the ground ala Cox in his prime. As much as I love Kreuzer though he just seems to be turning into a good no. 1 ruck as every season rolls around and thats it.
Murphy was injured and couldnt run last season.....he got caught a lot and looked slow. He needs his pace back to extract himself from traffic and get away from taggers like Crowley...the latter isnt quick but beat Murphy to the ball because our man couldnt get out of second gear.
You add that injury to the pressure of being a 1st year captain and he had a season to forget.....I think he will be better in 2014 and then in 2015 I expect him to be a dominant player once Mick has the players he wants on the park and the structures worked out so Murphy can get some more easy ball and do the silky stuff that wins games.
But he does get the easy ball, what I'm talking about his putting his body on the line when he has to (mandatory regardless of skill and size), tackling with intent and at least being accountable for his man when inside defensive 50. Sorry Elwood, I think you're a very smart bloke and rate your opinion but it is certainly NOT about getting more easy ball to Murphy. It's about being more accountable as a team and then mean EVERY player is accountable whether they're numero uno or number 38 on the list.
I'm hearing you Carrots and understand what you are saying but I dont think Murph will ever be that accountable player just like Dane Swan isnt and Craig Bradley never was......his body isnt built to take the punishment IMO and the modern game with bigger bodied mids banging into him has taken its toll.
Chris Yarran is another who isnt keen to be very accountable and picks/chooses his time to go and contest......both players have extremely high skill level and I think we just have to hope that when they do get the footy they use those great skills to hurt others teams to make up for their lack of application in the defensive areas of the game.
The Swans, Freo and probably Hawthorn are the teams that seem to get the most application in the defensive areas of the game across the list.....not sure if our list is ever going to give that type of result week and week out even with a bloke like Mick coaching.....
I agree re Yarran as well, I think Yarran in full flight though is a better player than Murphy and when Yarran plays down back he is accountable for a man.
I don't think you can win a premiership with players like Murphy playing the way he does.
I agree re Yarran as well, I think Yarran in full flight though is a better player than Murphy and when Yarran plays down back he is accountable for a man.
I don't think you can win a premiership with players like Murphy playing the way he does.
Sorry Carrots, this stinks of bias.
Murphy wins much more contested footy than Yarran does, and has done for longer. Yarran is more skilled, and faster when he extracts the digit, but you calling him an easy ball receiver is a crock.
Contested posessions are generally what Murphy is all about. The fact that he is shutdown and then has to run an opponent into the ground is why you might perceive him winning easy ball, but I dont think Murphy has ever had the luxury of winning easy ball. He has played with a tagger since we recruited him as our midfield has generally been rubbish the whole time he has played for us.
As for Yarran being accountable for a man, when he goes on a run, who do you think sits on his opponent? He cant be in two places at once, and someone else has to cover for him. Nothing wrong with that by the way, its how I expect our unit to work, but you cant call him accountable. When its time to think of someone to shut down a good small forward, Chris Yarran is not the name you think of for that task. Nothing wrong with that.
You asked a question about who his equivalent is at Geelong, and the name Jimmy Bartel comes to mind.
I agree re Yarran as well, I think Yarran in full flight though is a better player than Murphy and when Yarran plays down back he is accountable for a man.
I don't think you can win a premiership with players like Murphy playing the way he does.
Do we have two Yarrans in the team? I haven't seen this one.
I agree re Yarran as well, I think Yarran in full flight though is a better player than Murphy and when Yarran plays down back he is accountable for a man.
I don't think you can win a premiership with players like Murphy playing the way he does.
Sorry Carrots, this stinks of bias.
Murphy wins much more contested footy than Yarran does, and has done for longer. Yarran is more skilled, and faster when he extracts the digit, but you calling him an easy ball receiver is a crock.
Contested posessions are generally what Murphy is all about. The fact that he is shutdown and then has to run an opponent into the ground is why you might perceive him winning easy ball, but I dont think Murphy has ever had the luxury of winning easy ball. He has played with a tagger since we recruited him as our midfield has generally been rubbish the whole time he has played for us.
As for Yarran being accountable for a man, when he goes on a run, who do you think sits on his opponent? He cant be in two places at once, and someone else has to cover for him. Nothing wrong with that by the way, its how I expect our unit to work, but you cant call him accountable. When its time to think of someone to shut down a good small forward, Chris Yarran is not the name you think of for that task. Nothing wrong with that.
You asked a question about who his equivalent is at Geelong, and the name Jimmy Bartel comes to mind.
Contested footy means sweet FA Thry as I mentioned previously, if a ball rolls out a pack into a players path that is a contested ball. If Yarran let the tackles slip that Murphy does he'd be crucified.
I agree Yarran has a fair way to go but he is still more accountable and accountability is DEMANDED of him by fans et al as opposed to Murphy where it just doesn't matter to most (as has been highlighted in this thread).
The more I think about it the more I like the pickup of Everitt. A bit bigger than your usual third tall and not quite key position but should cover opposition third talls comfortably and could play 2nd tall against smaller forward lines. Ironically he is actually taller than Jamison by one cm I think.
Not to mention being able to push up on a wing or swing forward. Offers great versatility.
The more I think about it the more I like the pickup of Everitt. A bit bigger than your usual third tall and not quite key position but should cover opposition third talls comfortably and could play 2nd tall against smaller forward lines. Ironically he is actually taller than Jamison by one cm I think.
Not to mention being able to push up on a wing or swing forward. Offers great versatility.
I only remember him at the Doggies, but have heard good news about his ability. He is a bit of a utility type and can run. I'll be interested to see if he can hold his marks. This will open opportunities for him. Haven't seen enough myself, but as I said I have heard good news most of the time.
The more I think about it the more I like the pickup of Everitt. A bit bigger than your usual third tall and not quite key position but should cover opposition third talls comfortably and could play 2nd tall against smaller forward lines. Ironically he is actually taller than Jamison by one cm I think.
Not to mention being able to push up on a wing or swing forward. Offers great versatility.
I only remember him at the Doggies, but have heard good news about his ability. He is a bit of a utility type and can run. I'll be interested to see if he can hold his marks. This will open opportunities for him. Haven't seen enough myself, but as I said I have heard good news most of the time.
The Swans taught Everitt their code of team ethics and I thought he had a great season for them playing most games. He isnt a KP player and doesnt like muscling up on opponents and the temptation to cheat with him in KP's has to be ignored. His strength is being able to be that skillful third tall, down back or down forward and put him on players where you have the advantage of a size or speed mismatch....lazy talls were exposed for lack of pace/running and little blokes were outsized. He learnt to be more accountable and do some of the basics well in defense for the Swans but IMO is still a player with flair who you look to help win games rather than save them...
So we basically did a swap -> Laidler for Everitt. We only come out ahead if Jeremy can't get on the park IMO.
So we basically did a swap -> Laidler for Everitt. We only come out ahead if Jeremy can't get on the park IMO.
Everitt is taller, quicker, more agile, more disciplined and more versatile. Everitt only needs to play two senior games this year and it's a win IMO, as it's more than Laidler produced under MM.
Yes he would have learnt a thing or two at the Swans and hopefully he goes alright. I would go with Jamison and Watson as your two talls down back, Everitt as the third tall, Tuohy as the lock down back pocket, I really liked Simpson as the floating half back last year ala Hodge, with the other half back spot sort of up for grabs (probably Scotland).
Allowing Walker to play third tall up forward behind Henderson and Waite, Menzel as your genuine flanker, Garlett the specialist small and the resting ruck. In my opinion thats our best mix up forward and down back. The midfield speaks for itself, Yarran I would also like to see more on a wing with stints up forward for a breather.
Yes he would have learnt a thing or two at the Swans and hopefully he goes alright. I would go with Jamison and Watson as your two talls down back, Everitt as the third tall, Tuohy as the lock down back pocket, I really liked Simpson as the floating half back last year ala Hodge, with the other half back spot sort of up for grabs (probably Scotland).
Allowing Walker to play third tall up forward behind Henderson and Waite, Menzel as your genuine flanker, Garlett the specialist small and the resting ruck. In my opinion thats our best mix up forward and down back. The midfield speaks for itself, Yarran I would also like to see more on a wing with stints up forward for a breather.
That's almost exactly how I picked my ideal side also, way back on page one.
I agree, definitely our most potent setup. Docherty to come through and replace Scotland eventually.
My best, based obviously on not having seen any of the training sessions and not knowing what the real injury situation is.
B: Simpson, Jamison, Tuohy
HB: Everitt, Watson, Walker
C: Yarran, McLean, Thomas
R: Warnock, Murphy, Judd
HF: Robinson, Waite, Gibbs
F: Garlett, Henderson, Kreuzer
INT: Curnow, Armfield, Menzel, Bell
EM: Scotland
I want Gibbs to play more forward this year. There are several others who will no doubt be pressing strongly for early selection so the above best be on their respective games! I'm pretty optimistic for some real improvement at this stage.
Yes he would have learnt a thing or two at the Swans and hopefully he goes alright. I would go with Jamison and Watson as your two talls down back, Everitt as the third tall, Tuohy as the lock down back pocket, I really liked Simpson as the floating half back last year ala Hodge, with the other half back spot sort of up for grabs (probably Scotland).
Allowing Walker to play third tall up forward behind Henderson and Waite, Menzel as your genuine flanker, Garlett the specialist small and the resting ruck. In my opinion thats our best mix up forward and down back. The midfield speaks for itself, Yarran I would also like to see more on a wing with stints up forward for a breather.
That's almost exactly how I picked my ideal side also, way back on page one.
I agree, definitely our most potent setup. Docherty to come through and replace Scotland eventually.
Nathbear I agree that Docherty was brought in with that exact idea in mind. Don't know squat about him other than he is still fairly raw and not sure how quickly he will make his way into the 22.
Kruezer and. Warnock should never under any condition be allowedto play in the same team.neither can play forward on a consistent level.Warnock cannot run jump or mark the ball and as a ruck man he may get tap outs but how many to advantage .A nd if they both play in the same side our interchange becomes one man down.Kruezer is the better all round player and we should be using him with cas or Rowe as the back ups.I also think that blokes like Bell ,cas,Watson menzal should be played for the first 6 or 7 weeks and told before the season starts that's how long they have to prove themselves and not dropped after 1 or 2 games as until we can replace the likes of arm field and curnow and the likes with genuine footballers we will not win a flag.The last thing we can afford to do is go into games negative with the likes of curnow armfield carrots ellard in the same team.There is only room for one tagger type player and that should be carrots or curnow.
Like it or not at least it's my opinion
Kruezer and. Warnock should never under any condition be allowedto play in the same team.neither can play forward on a consistent level.Warnock cannot run jump or mark the ball and as a ruck man he may get tap outs but how many to advantage .A nd if they both play in the same side our interchange becomes one man down.Kruezer is the better all round player and we should be using him with cas or Rowe as the back ups.I also think that blokes like Bell ,cas,Watson menzal should be played for the first 6 or 7 weeks and told before the season starts that's how long they have to prove themselves and not dropped after 1 or 2 games as until we can replace the likes of arm field and curnow and the likes with genuine footballers we will not win a flag.The last thing we can afford to do is go into games negative with the likes of curnow armfield carrots ellard in the same team.There is only room for one tagger type player and that should be carrots or curnow.
Like it or not at least it's my opinion
Good on you, Slugger. You raise relevant issues and I bet the club is working hard on all of them.
There were signs late last season that 206 was doing more around the ground... and he kicked the first of the our first final!!! Likewise Kreuz was doing more around the ground and realising that he had to mark the aggott up forward and kick goals.
And, Mate, our midfield I suspect will be quite different this year... I wouldn't be surprised if Ellard finds it very hard to get a gig, and maybe Armfield as well.
Like your opinions, Slugger. :)
@Slugger
Interesting comments Slugger but IMO I don't think MM will be experimenting too much in our first few games, if that's what you are hinting at. That was all last year.
This year I believe he will definitely want to get a few early wins under his belt and that philosophy underpinned my selections.
Of course, those selections could be changed depending upon what happens between now and the start of the season in terms of injuries and how players actually perform.
The one certainty is that competition for a berth has definitely become a lot hotter and that can only be goodness, so we're likely to seem some early team changes driven by the greater depth of talent we now have, especially if we're not going as well as MM would like.
Ive long thought our best 3 talls to play forward are Waite, Henderson and Kreuzer and as a combination I think they would be worth a shot.
The other side of the coin is that i am now unsure of MK's body and ability up forward. I think when we have played the likes of MK, Hammer, RW206, Levi and Rowe forward they have not had the 1-2 punch of Waite and Hendo which would make a huge difference I believe to the 3rd tall/relief ruck. Hammer is now gawn, RW206 more a ruck only but as a man so tall standing in the goal square able to get some 1 on 1's (same for MK and the others mentioned) then I think they could be a nuisance with our 'main' key forward targets being Waite and Hencerson as CHF/FF and able to rotate those positions also which I think is important and underestimated.
My concern is that Waite will not last much longer and if we play the rucks as RW206/MK then we are not sure on their abilities as tall forwards, in particular MK as he would be more a 3rd tall forward/2nd ruck Id imagine in that circumstance.
Id be thinking toward the future at some stage with a combo of the new forward general in Henderson as your mainstay with support from Watson and Casboult. I think at this stage I have seem much more from Watto as a forward than a defender and Casboult, although has weaknesses, is the best out and out 'clunker' of the ball on our list and a much better grab than MK, RW206 and Rowe. Have MK as our pure ruck/follower workhorse.
Id look to this option as the season gets going after seeing who is doing what, how the team is travelling, etc.
@ Pratty.
Do you think that part of the reason why Kreuzer is struggling in the forward role is that 1. He hasnt quite been fit enough to do it properly, and 2. He is lacking confidence in his ability to perform that role?
Early doors he looked more than competant and he has really dropped off a long way from the first glimpses where normally players go from strength to strength in getting better.
Perhaps he could eventually fill the role but needs to get "on a roll" if you know what I mean.
Kreuzer is awful overhead and that's the reason why he wont make it as a forward.
His ability to judge the flight of the ball is average. He never initiates contact against his direct opponent hence is always knocked off balance when attempting to run at the ball. Even if he does initiate contact his body work is suspect at best.
Last year at times he was used as a long get out option from half back and the ball was directed to him with a long kick to the wing. He would struggle to even get his hands to the ball let alone mark it. Casboult showed him how it was done.
Kreuzer is awful overhead and that's the reason why he wont make it as a forward.
Disagree with that one Carrots. Having watched the last couple of rounds and finals again recently thanks to Fox Footy, Kreuzer took some very strong marks, under pressure and above the shoulders.
Don't forget he had his thumb strapped for most of the season, which did restrict his marking
Fair enough, I'm going by his entire career at Carlton. It's been tried many a time and failed, I think he did well in one game in his first season and then the oppo figured out you can knock him off balance and he's rendered useless. If he could initiate first contact in an aggressive manner to shake his opponent he may improve. I wont hold my breath.
@ Pratty.
Do you think that part of the reason why Kreuzer is struggling in the forward role is that 1. He hasnt quite been fit enough to do it properly, and 2. He is lacking confidence in his ability to perform that role?
Early doors he looked more than competant and he has really dropped off a long way from the first glimpses where normally players go from strength to strength in getting better.
Perhaps he could eventually fill the role but needs to get "on a roll" if you know what I mean.
You could be spot on here Thry as he did look very good as a young ruckman/forward. I think with Waite and henderson around him up forward he is hopefully going to be more dangerous up forward. Give him some confidence id hope like you said he certainly does need.
I feel that Kreuzer has morphed into a no.1 ruck, when I think the club was hoping he would become a good forward and good ruck when they drafted him. His best work is done when he is in the thick of it hunting the ball, not hanging in the forward line waiting for it.
That is why I think the most effective combo is that of Kreuzer and Casboult as the latter as we know has a great pair of hands, and would do more as the resting ruck up forward despite his kicking. I also think the club needs to do a better job at managing him through a season, he is starting to break down towards the end of seasons.
Well I'm hoping that we can finally see a Kreuzer that ain't actually broke this year, and finally get some ongoing value from him fully fit and firing. If that happens then a combo of him and Warnock will be a very good one.
We've heard a lot about Casboult's work in the off-season too - it'll be very interesting if he also comes good - let's just hope he can.
Well I'm hoping that we can finally see a Kreuzer that ain't actually broke this year, and finally get some ongoing value from him fully fit and firing. If that happens then a combo of him and Warnock will be a very good one.
We've heard a lot about Casboult's work in the off-season too - it'll be very interesting if he also comes good - let's just hope he can.
I have a feeling Kruze will probably struggle because he hasnt had a full preseason unfortunately. His foot injury late in the season needed surgery and lingered alot longer than expected. This has affected his ability to do a full PS. He couldnt attend Arizona and hence will be behind the 8 ball.
Well I'm hoping that we can finally see a Kreuzer that ain't actually broke this year, and finally get some ongoing value from him fully fit and firing. If that happens then a combo of him and Warnock will be a very good one.
We've heard a lot about Casboult's work in the off-season too - it'll be very interesting if he also comes good - let's just hope he can.
I have a feeling Kruze will probably struggle because he hasnt had a full preseason unfortunately. His foot injury late in the season needed surgery and lingered alot longer than expected. This has affected his ability to do a full PS. He couldnt attend Arizona and hence will be behind the 8 ball.
Not an ideal way to prepare for a new season at all. We will have to wait and see how he gains his match fitness and endurance as the season goes along. Surely by the half way mark through the season, he will be better than he has been before.
Kruezers stats are not far off that of Dean Cox except in average marks, but he never seems to influence or win games like Cox has.
He is capable of taking big marks, kicking goals unlike Warnock but never does it for 4 quarters or rarely take big marks forward that win games, wether its fitness or confidence I dont know but he should be a better player than he is given his athletic abilities and skills.
Gibbs is the same.....he can pick up 30 possies but doesnt really control or win games....both players lack the intensity and imagination in their game to dominate.
They are not leaders...Judd is intense and competitive for 100 minutes, he wants to win every contest and dominate and this is what separates stars from just good players like Kruezer and Gibbs...
Kruezers stats are not far off that of Dean Cox except in average marks, but he never seems to influence or win games like Cox has.
He is capable of taking big marks, kicking goals unlike Warnock but never does it for 4 quarters or rarely take big marks forward that win games, wether its fitness or confidence I dont know but he should be a better player than he is given his athletic abilities and skills.
Gibbs is the same.....he can pick up 30 possies but doesnt really control or win games....both players lack the intensity and imagination in their game to dominate.
They are not leaders...Judd is intense and competitive for 100 minutes, he wants to win every contest and dominate and this is what separates stars from just good players like Kruezer and Gibbs...
Its heart and ticker stuff that usually begins between the ears. Get the mind going and have some belief and the world is your oyster. That is why some players dare to be different and some just choose to follow the other sheep. its up to the coach to give them an open licence on what they do and back their efforts. Challenge them to look beyond the square, and outside their normal restricted boundaries. Their potential is beyond their belief if they just took a few more risks. Remember with few risks there are few rewards. Just go for broke every now and then. More so now than then. If you get nailed, you get nailed. So be it. Judd has been nailed many times, but he has run like a freak more than a few times in return. ;)
Kruezers stats are not far off that of Dean Cox except in average marks, but he never seems to influence or win games like Cox has.
He is capable of taking big marks, kicking goals unlike Warnock but never does it for 4 quarters or rarely take big marks forward that win games, wether its fitness or confidence I dont know but he should be a better player than he is given his athletic abilities and skills.
Gibbs is the same.....he can pick up 30 possies but doesnt really control or win games....both players lack the intensity and imagination in their game to dominate.
They are not leaders...Judd is intense and competitive for 100 minutes, he wants to win every contest and dominate and this is what separates stars from just good players like Kruezer and Gibbs...
He was cruising until the mid point of last year until Lloyd came out and questioned him. It worked for a couple of weeks until he slipped back. Maybe it is an application thing rather than injuries holding him back?
I remember Mick saying last year that he a felt that the players do not know what it takes to be successful and are almost unsure how hard they need to train and play. I think sometimes our blokes are just dumb, I mean the best midfielder of the past decade is right in front of them everyday, that's what it takes to be successful. Kreuzer and Gibbs certainly need to lift intensity.
Kruezers stats are not far off that of Dean Cox except in average marks, but he never seems to influence or win games like Cox has.
He is capable of taking big marks, kicking goals unlike Warnock but never does it for 4 quarters or rarely take big marks forward that win games, wether its fitness or confidence I dont know but he should be a better player than he is given his athletic abilities and skills.
Gibbs is the same.....he can pick up 30 possies but doesnt really control or win games....both players lack the intensity and imagination in their game to dominate.
They are not leaders...Judd is intense and competitive for 100 minutes, he wants to win every contest and dominate and this is what separates stars from just good players like Kruezer and Gibbs...
Bingo elwood. Spot on!
Kruezers stats are not far off that of Dean Cox except in average marks, but he never seems to influence or win games like Cox has.
He is capable of taking big marks, kicking goals unlike Warnock but never does it for 4 quarters or rarely take big marks forward that win games, wether its fitness or confidence I dont know but he should be a better player than he is given his athletic abilities and skills.
Gibbs is the same.....he can pick up 30 possies but doesnt really control or win games....both players lack the intensity and imagination in their game to dominate.
They are not leaders...Judd is intense and competitive for 100 minutes, he wants to win every contest and dominate and this is what separates stars from just good players like Kruezer and Gibbs...
He was cruising until the mid point of last year until Lloyd came out and questioned him. It worked for a couple of weeks until he slipped back. Maybe it is an application thing rather than injuries holding him back?
He's just not the athletic freak he was made out to be, he has little acceleration and is quite lumbering. his strengths lie in the ground ball where he would not be much better than a B-Grade mid as opposed to overhead which is what we thought we'd be getting.
Kruezers stats are not far off that of Dean Cox except in average marks, but he never seems to influence or win games like Cox has.
He is capable of taking big marks, kicking goals unlike Warnock but never does it for 4 quarters or rarely take big marks forward that win games, wether its fitness or confidence I dont know but he should be a better player than he is given his athletic abilities and skills.
Gibbs is the same.....he can pick up 30 possies but doesnt really control or win games....both players lack the intensity and imagination in their game to dominate.
They are not leaders...Judd is intense and competitive for 100 minutes, he wants to win every contest and dominate and this is what separates stars from just good players like Kruezer and Gibbs...
He was cruising until the mid point of last year until Lloyd came out and questioned him. It worked for a couple of weeks until he slipped back. Maybe it is an application thing rather than injuries holding him back?
He's just not the athletic freak he was made out to be, he has little acceleration and is quite lumbering. his strengths lie in the ground ball where he would not be much better than a B-Grade mid as opposed to overhead which is what we thought we'd be getting.
I have to agree with you there Carrots.
Collingwood drafted a very similar style of player at the 2012 Draft in Brodie Grundy, so will be very interesting to see how the two of them compare to each other, career-wise.
Kreuzer's biggest strength is his attack on the contest, where he uses his big body to bust open packs and dish handballs out to our running players. That's why he's far better suited as the #1 ruck, in my opinion, it gets him to more contests and therefore allows him more opportunities to showcase his strengths.
I'm hoping that 2014 gives us the opportunity to play both Henderson and Waite in the key forward posts more often than not, which means that when Kreuzer is resting forward, he gets the third best defender rather than one of the top opposing guys. Playing/resting out of the goal square, Kreuzer is a huge threat as he doesn't get any shorter, plus his ability around the stoppages will bring in our smaller forwards.
@Nathbear
I like that scenario Nath!
Kreuzer's biggest strength is his attack on the contest, where he uses his big body to bust open packs and dish handballs out to our running players. That's why he's far better suited as the #1 ruck, in my opinion, it gets him to more contests and therefore allows him more opportunities to showcase his strengths.
.
I agree with this but IMO he's not doing it like he was pre-knee injury and I'm starting to wonder if it's less about the physical side than the mental side. I kinda hope it's mental, coach should be able to sort him out and it would be a shame (and disaster for us) if his body is broken.
Kreuzer's biggest strength is his attack on the contest, where he uses his big body to bust open packs and dish handballs out to our running players. That's why he's far better suited as the #1 ruck, in my opinion, it gets him to more contests and therefore allows him more opportunities to showcase his strengths.
Problem being this is not what we got him for, nor what we need him for. We need him to take contested marks around the ground and at least break even in the ruck and take marks and score goals when up forward. Anything that happens when the ball hits the deck is a bonus with ruckmen nothing more.
Kreuzer's biggest strength is his attack on the contest, where he uses his big body to bust open packs and dish handballs out to our running players. That's why he's far better suited as the #1 ruck, in my opinion, it gets him to more contests and therefore allows him more opportunities to showcase his strengths.
Problem being this is not what we got him for, nor what we need him for. We need him to take contested marks around the ground and at least break even in the ruck and take marks and score goals when up forward. Anything that happens when the ball hits the deck is a bonus with ruckmen nothing more.
This is the only highlights reel I could find of Kreuze at U/18 level. It was back in 2006, so I guess there isn't much still around from him back then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tf9cih2vs8
He didn't clunk a single contested mark on that tape (and it/s 6:30 long) so if that's what we drafted him for then we were watching the wrong player and called the wrong name. It's his around the ground and around the contest work that really stands out, which is exactly what we've gotten from him in his career thus far.
Yep, that's fair enough, my point is you draft mids to play mid and rucks to play ruck. Both should have the attributes to match their position.
I doubt we drafted SpecialK for marking, his deal is like his nickname suggests The Tractor. He will run through packs at stoppages or inflict carnage on opposition mids with bone crunching tackles. As a tap ruckmen he was probably 3rd behind Warnock and Hampson last season, and as a marking option he was well behind Hendo and Rowe.
The only ~200cm tall /ruck we have that manages to clunks marks from just about any scenario is Rowe. Rowe is a great defensive mark as well.
Casboult has great hands launching from behind or when he is clear on the lead, but put him at the front of the pack or in a body on body and he turns to butter. His fitness is reported to be way up this pre-season, lets hope his aggression goes up as well.
Kreuzer is not a bad pack mark but he isn;t a good one either, in any case with his injury history do we really want to risk losing him around the ground just to get a pack park?
Wood will provide a good forward marking option if he can get himself fit, but I see him as a distant option assuming Waite, Hendo and Walker are fit.
I suspect the smoky in the pack around the ground this season is going to be Watson. My source says he has dropped kilos, improved endurance and strength for the triple crown. He is the size to do the job, he will not be so timid this coming season if he continues his improvement from last season.
I doubt we drafted SpecialK for marking, his deal is like his nickname suggests The Tractor. He will run through packs at stoppages or inflict carnage on opposition mids with bone crunching tackles. As a tap ruckmen he was probably 3rd behind Warnock and Hampson last season, and as a marking option he was well behind Hendo and Rowe.
The only ~200cm tall /ruck we have that manages to clunks marks from just about any scenario is Rowe. Rowe is a great defensive mark as well.
Casboult has great hands launching from behind or when he is clear on the lead, but put him at the front of the pack or in a body on body and he turns to butter. His fitness is reported to be way up this pre-season, lets hope his aggression goes up as well.
Kreuzer is not a bad pack mark but he isn;t a good one either, in any case with his injury history do we really want to risk losing him around the ground just to get a pack park?
Wood will provide a good forward marking option if he can get himself fit, but I see him as a distant option assuming Waite, Hendo and Walker are fit.
I suspect the smoky in the pack around the ground this season is going to be Watson. My source says he has dropped kilos, improved endurance and strength for the triple crown. He is the size to do the job, he will not be so timid this coming season if he continues his improvement from last season.
Has a very cool head (no pun intended) under pressure also.
The recruitment of Wood would suggest that Kreuzer may be deployed as the second ruck behind Warnock more often, and that Mick sees Kreuzer that way other than a first ruck. This would be the perfect scenario, we just need Kreuzer to be able to get more of the ball around the ground and he could be a matchup nightmare, we know he is tough and courageous, he just needs a bit of nasty as well!
I would ignore Cameron Wood in this discussion. He has been picked up as insurance in case both Warnock and Kreuzer both go down injured.
His recruitment indicates nothing and as of right now, with a fit list, he is third in line for an elevation behind Scotland and Cachia.
I would ignore Cameron Wood in this discussion. He has been picked up as insurance in case both Warnock and Kreuzer both go down injured.
His recruitment indicates nothing and as of right now, with a fit list, he is third in line for an elevation behind Scotland and Cachia.
Who got Duigan's spot?
Delete.
MK, Rowe, Cas and RW206 are our ruck options. I am hopeful one will have a breakout year of sorts as we desperately need it!
Alternate 22, with a view toward a more flexible tall forward structure and a view to developing some tall forwards to play together. in the future. Hopefully we can snare a Hugh Goddard or Pat McCartin in this year's upcoming u18 ND. Cam Giles could come into calculations as the season progresses and am optimistic about his prospects. I think Waite, Henderson and Kreuzer (with Warnock rucking) would be the beginning point round 1 if all are hopefully fit then we'll see how we go.
B: Tuohy, Jamison, White
Hb: Walker, Waite, Simpson
C: Thomas, Gibbs, Judd
Hf: Watson, Henderson, Menzel
F: Garlett, Casboult, Everitt
Foll: Kreuzer, Murphy
Rov: Carrazzo
I/c: Curnow, McLean, Scotland, Yarran
Emerg: Docherty, Graham, Lucas, Warnock
Young mids in Graham, Menzel (for the future), Cripps and Holman along with Kane Lucas and recruit Sam Docherty will get their opportunities no doubt. They'll play a combination of small/mid forward and onball to develop. Cripps moreso as a starting mid but will need to boost his tank which will happen in time. Thats 6 runners/onballers/flankers that we can add to the mix that hopefuly are the future of the club. Im not discounting Chris Yarran also so with 7 younger types with skill and pace that we have on the list we canb add them to the depth of mids and hopefully we get a breakout year from a couple of these blokes. Loking toward Yarra, Lucas, Dochery and Graham to provide some extra spark and quality depth to the midfield ranks this year!
I would ignore Cameron Wood in this discussion. He has been picked up as insurance in case both Warnock and Kreuzer both go down injured.
His recruitment indicates nothing and as of right now, with a fit list, he is third in line for an elevation behind Scotland and Cachia.
Are Scotland and Cachia both nominated rookies?....if so they dont need promoting and Wood could be added to the list in place of Duigan.
I think Wood will play games and be a threat to Warnock's future if the latter doesnt start taking some marks and getting more of the ball...
@EB1
I think you are probably right about Wood Elwood - MM stated he is insurance and that may well have been meant in more ways than just the obvious!
I would ignore Cameron Wood in this discussion. He has been picked up as insurance in case both Warnock and Kreuzer both go down injured.
His recruitment indicates nothing and as of right now, with a fit list, he is third in line for an elevation behind Scotland and Cachia.
Who got Duigan's spot?
Nobody yet. The actual thought process that we would elevate a ruckman in place of a guy like Duigan doesnt sit well with me, particularly when we have 2 medium forwards/defenders on the list that are likely to have been recruited in the case that Duigan's body gave way. I was puzzled about why we would take 2 of them, and that question was answered as soon as Duigan stopped being able to prepare for next year. They gave him the chance to get back again, and hedged their bets.
Wood is insurance for Kreuzer or Warnock. He is not a better footballer than either, and I see no value of putting him on our senior list unless one or both of those two are unavailable and am expecting Wood to remain on the rookie list unless he is excelling in training over the other two and simply cannot be held out of our best 22.
It makes no sense to just hand over a list spot to a rookie that has not earned it as yet, and I think its folly to make too many assumptions over who is getting that spot, but I think Wood would be the final option.
B: Tuohy, Jamison, White
Hb: Walker, Waite, Simpson
C: Thomas, Gibbs, Judd
Hf: Watson, Henderson, Menzel
F: Garlett, Casboult, Everitt
Foll: Kreuzer, Murphy
Rov: Carrazzo
I/c: Curnow, McLean, Scotland, Yarran
Emerg: Docherty, Graham, Lucas, Warnock
Hendo is no CHF, he is too slow and not agile enough as a CHF. Once teams dragged him up the ground he lost all effectiveness.
Hendo did his best work at FF or FP.
If fit Waite is our best CHF by some margin to the nearest alternative, if Waite is not there I suspect Everitt off a HFF or maybe even a wing will become a mobile target in combination with some smaller players like Walker or Yarran.
I would ignore Cameron Wood in this discussion. He has been picked up as insurance in case both Warnock and Kreuzer both go down injured.
His recruitment indicates nothing and as of right now, with a fit list, he is third in line for an elevation behind Scotland and Cachia.
Are Scotland and Cachia both nominated rookies?....if so they dont need promoting and Wood could be added to the list in place of Duigan.
I think Wood will play games and be a threat to Warnock's future if the latter doesnt start taking some marks and getting more of the ball...
I had heard Cachia has already got Duigan's spot.
I agree about 206, he has been lucky in that SpecialK and Hammer didn't mark well so they offered no around the ground advantages to de-value the 206 ruck domination. Also Rowe and Casboult can't ruck so there are not viable 2nd ruck options despite being reasonable marking targets. Sometimes life just deals you the right cards, or your opponent the dud ones! Also history suggests MM is not big on having a dominant ruckmen as a priority, he prefers the versatile types which has been lucky for MM teams in regards to having Cox and Jolly. If one of rucks becomes versatile as such the others are on borrowed time!
Hendo is no CHF, he is too slow and not agile enough as a CHF. Once teams dragged him up the ground he lost all effectiveness.
I know you like your CHFs to play out of the half back line but he needs to learn how to get himself cover and not get dragged all over the place. That's a defender breaking down our structures, that's a win (in most instances) for the opposition. Waite had the same problem and when he sorted it out he became a far more damaging player (then he got himself injured or rubbed out all the time)
Hendo is no CHF, he is too slow and not agile enough as a CHF. Once teams dragged him up the ground he lost all effectiveness.
I know you like your CHFs to play out of the half back line but he needs to learn how to get himself cover and not get dragged all over the place. That's a defender breaking down our structures, that's a win (in most instances) for the opposition. Waite had the same problem and when he sorted it out he became a far more damaging player (then he got himself injured or rubbed out all the time)
No not out of CHB, you must be winding me up because you would know I hate Casboult taking marks on D50 and getting stuff all inside F50.
I like my CHF to play Jonathon Brown style, good CHF put fear into the opposition and intimidate defenders. Hendo just isn't like that, Waite is! Good CHF don't just win the footy, they demand it!
I like the formula we had in the 90s... Sticks and the Golf Ball. They took it upon themselves to alternate, to great effect.
That potential exists with Waite and Hendo. Waite is an impossible CHF to match up on... and when he drifts back to FF, backmen are filling their undies. His only enemy is himself. Hendo can also rotate to great effect. And if resting ruckman also contribute...
B: Tuohy, Jamison, White
Hb: Walker, Waite, Simpson
C: Thomas, Gibbs, Judd
Hf: Watson, Henderson, Menzel
F: Garlett, Casboult, Everitt
Foll: Kreuzer, Murphy
Rov: Carrazzo
I/c: Curnow, McLean, Scotland, Yarran
Emerg: Docherty, Graham, Lucas, Warnock
Hendo is no CHF, he is too slow and not agile enough as a CHF. Once teams dragged him up the ground he lost all effectiveness.
Hendo did his best work at FF or FP.
If fit Waite is our best CHF by some margin to the nearest alternative, if Waite is not there I suspect Everitt off a HFF or maybe even a wing will become a mobile target in combination with some smaller players like Walker or Yarran.
Disagree. Hendo is a decent CHF IMO. My view is that a broken down injured or suspended Waite is far too often in and out of our forward structure and it just breakd down. A fit Waite, Heno and MK all playing forward I'd like to see for games on end.
I think Hendo did a great job inside our forward 50 last year when there playing as a key forward. At times your CHF simply has to move up the ground.
Do we have a big J.Brown or T.Cloke - no so we go with what we have.
I think Pratty is spot on there. You need stability at CHF I feel, and I think Hendo is our best hope at achieving that. As much as I love him in our backline we more desperately need him in our forward line and I think he showed signs last year that he has the potential to be the man up forward. Anytime Waite is up there with him will be a bonus with the resting ruck floating around as well.
I remember Leigh Matthews saying once that when they recruited Hendo he felt he was only ever going to make it as backman and that his more reserved personality would not allow him to be a dominant tall forward. I felt the same after he came over but last year he did show enough to think he could be a very decent tall forward at the least.
Hendo certainly has all the skills to be very effective tall fwd. Ok, he may not be a raving extrovert but he does stay calm and composed under pressure so I want to see him play forward if we can sort out our defence without him.
IMO any improvement in Rowe, Watson or Casboult will make a significant difference to our side.
If any of these 3 can regularly hold down a starting 18 spot and/or make consistent contributions while on the field, IMO it will do a lot to significantly improving our team, structurally and otherwise.
IMO any improvement in Rowe, Watson or Casboult will make a significant difference to our side.
If any of these 3 can regularly hold down a starting 18 spot and/or make consistent contributions while on the field, IMO it will do a lot to significantly improving our team, structurally and otherwise.
I think this is the big issue for us, one of the 200cm guys has to step up.
Hoping for Hendo to become a keystone at CHF reads more like a wish than reality.
Hendo certainly has all the skills to be very effective tall fwd. Ok, he may not be a raving extrovert but he does stay calm and composed under pressure so I want to see him play forward if we can sort out our defence without him.
Exactly. Hendo proved his worth at CHF last year in the limited time he got there. He's been really good down back also. Waite I reckon could be a decent CHB until Cam Giles comes on. He's too lazy, unpredicatble and unreliable up forward...but he can also be a ripper up forward. Quandary! Hoping for Waite to play a full season or Rowe or Casboult or Kreuzer or Watson to hold down CHF aint going to happen. We need a mix of blokes IMHO, with an eye to the future but also with more versatility. Those guys mentioned above will absolutely need someone like Henderson holding down CHF for them to have an impact. I believe Andrejs Everitt and Andy Walker up forward will be really handy for us. Matty Watson also showed something in his limited time forward. More of a roaming taller type than a genuine key forward at this stage but could be handy. Id be seriously looking to build my forward structure around Lachie Henderson in 2014. Doesn't mean he cant switch back from time to time but for the majority of time I think he's gotta be forward in a key post.
@Pratty
Dead right IMO. Hendo is the only younger guy we've got atm who looks anthing like a good KPF prospect so we have to go with him. Finding another remains our big priority.
Casboult may, and I emphasise MAY, be one option. We'll see how he goes this year.
Waite is Waite - can't rely on him playing the full season out.
You're dead right again Pratty in saying that we'll be relying heavily on other non-KPF types.
The only good thing about this time of year waiting for Rd1 is putting your perfect side together.
Looking at the list for 2014 IMO we are MUCH stronger than how the team looked finished 2013. My thinking is as follows;
1/ we lose Betts. In his place we effectively add Thomas, Docherty, Menzel, Carrotts and Lucas [in the 'last chancee saloon']. These guys are either proven or high potential players who made no impact to the team at the end of 2013.
This ignores anything we might get from last years [other than Menzel] or this years draft crop. Obviously Cripps will hopefully add soemthing this year, but this would be a bonus.
These nett 4 players will put pressure on the current Robbo, Armfield, Curnow, Scotland and Mclean group who all finished 2013. Our depth looks MUCH stronger here. The final against the Swans showed we need to bat deeper and run harder thru the midfield, and this looks more likely with this crop.
2/ The biggest opportunity [and risk] is in the big body department. We lose Hampson [who didnt feature in the back end of the season], and we add in Everitt and Wood [for insurance]. The group of Watson, Casboult, Rowe and White hold the key - none fetaured at the end of 2013 but if 2 of those 4 plus Everitt have a solid to breakout year, then we will be a handful. The reason for this it provides a lot more flexibility for Waite and Hendo.
Hendo and Waite forward, if Watson [or Rowe] can do a job at CHB will make us a very difficult proposition for a lot sides. Hendo is the most talented KPF we have - always runs to the right spot, has very good hands on the lead and is a solid shot at goal. He is a difficult matchup, and takes the pressure [and best defender] from Waite.
3/ I can only hope that over summer MM and his coaches have agreed a plan for our preferred ruck set up, and an injury free MK allows us to implement it. This includes deciding on the role for Warnock, as his great tap work but limited impact otherwise needs to be addressed.
Bring on Round 1!!!!
1/ we lose Betts. In his place we effectively add Thomas, Docherty, Menzel, Carrotts and Lucas [in the 'last chancee saloon']. These guys are either proven or high potential players who made no impact to the team at the end of 2013.
And Everitt. ;D
1/ we lose Betts. In his place we effectively add Thomas, Docherty, Menzel, Carrotts and Lucas [in the 'last chancee saloon']. These guys are either proven or high potential players who made no impact to the team at the end of 2013.
And Everitt. ;D
Cheers mate. I put Everitt in Point 2 as I see him a biiger body, not a midfield option.
@Pratty
Dead right IMO. Hendo is the only younger guy we've got atm who looks anthing like a good KPF prospect so we have to go with him. Finding another remains our big priority.
Casboult may, and I emphasise MAY, be one option. We'll see how he goes this year.
Waite is Waite - can't rely on him playing the full season out.
You're dead right again Pratty in saying that we'll be relying heavily on other non-KPF types.
Until Casboult does 100 shots at goal after every training session and learns how to kick, he wont be a fwd option in the ones for us and will end up delisted. He has the tools to be a good player, maybe even great. He needs to dedicate his life to becoming an elite kick and be supremely fit. Yes the Boyds and Hogans of the world are extremely talented but they didnt become elite juniors by accident either. You can tell by listening to them speak and the way they act that they are super dedicated and hell bent on being elite. Levi comes across (to me at least and I have met him in person) as being very lazy and one who enjoys his off field very much. I like the bloke, I would love him to become great but unless he has a major change in attitude, he will be just a VFL player at best. And if any can get the best out him, its MM.
Our best 22 will be drawn from the best performed players who are fit and most able to defeat and/or negate the opposition. That should change from week to week and our best 22 for round one may not be our best 22 in other rounds.
Depending on how we go for injuries, our best 22 will always include Murphy, Judd, Simpson, Gibbs, Henderson, Walker, Kreuzer, Jamison, Thomas and Waite. Curnow, Garlett, Yarran, Carrazzo, Warnock, Tuohy and Armfield will be in our best 22 more often than not. Five to ten positions are up for grabs.
Interested to hear what people have seen, heard and or expect from Cripps so far? Is he a shot for the 22 round 1 or later in the season, would love another extractor in there!
Would be a bonus if Crippsy was one of those 'ready to go' first rounders!
Interested to hear what people have seen, heard and or expect from Cripps so far? Is he a shot for the 22 round 1 or later in the season, would love another extractor in there!
Mick likes to play kids but I would expect Everitt and Thomas to be the only new faces in rnd1 unless we have some injuries.....
Carrazzo should be back to full fitness and I expect him to be back extracting the footy now that Curnow will probably have the No 1 tagger duties leaving Carrazzo to play a more attacking role....
Would be a bonus if Crippsy was one of those 'ready to go' first rounders!
We should get a chance to see him in the pre-season games.
I also feel Cripps may have to bide his time unless injuries hit (touch wood). EB brings up a great point regarding Carrazzo, with Curnow now probably our first choice tagger Carrots might be allowed to play that inside extractor role and will add another dynamic to our midfield this year. We have missed him!
When Cripps does get eased into the team eventually I feel he may have an immediate impact, and may be hard to dislodge from the team.
Would be a bonus if Crippsy was one of those 'ready to go' first rounders!
We should get a chance to see him in the pre-season games.
I remember reading a fluff piece around Xmas that MM or Andy Mc mentioned that he would be expecting to se him in debut mid year or earlier, (sorry, can't find the article but then my google searching skills are average at best :-[)
I also feel Cripps may have to bide his time unless injuries hit (touch wood). EB brings up a great point regarding Carrazzo, with Curnow now probably our first choice tagger Carrots might be allowed to play that inside extractor role and will add another dynamic to our midfield this year. We have missed him!
When Cripps does get eased into the team eventually I feel he may have an immediate impact, and may be hard to dislodge from the team.
If he performs well in the NAB Cup expect him to play Rd. 1.
Mick rewards good performers and it's not as if the lad isn't a decent size.....
If he does end up playing sooner rather than later, all of a sudden we bat a bit deeper in the midfield with Thomas in there as well at various stages. With Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas, Carrazzo, Curnow, Robinson, McLean, Simpson (although I'd like to see him continue playing that Hodge role), Cripps, Yarran (short burst periods), and guys like Bell, Lucas, Graham, Cachia providing the depth, it doesn't look that bad.
But we still need Murphy to get back to AA level, and Gibbs to get up there also (here's hoping) to be a any sort of threat. I had a feeling Gibbs' pride was pricked a little last year with Murphy captain as he was often touted as Judd's replacement, he has to continue to be played in a more offensive role if we are serious.
I've been told I could be an AA individual, but its all up to me. In the case of Murphy, it is up to him if he wants to go to the next level.
I've been told I could be an AA individual, but its all up to me. In the case of Murphy, it is up to him if he wants to go to the next level (again).
@Pratty
Dead right IMO. Hendo is the only younger guy we've got atm who looks anthing like a good KPF prospect so we have to go with him. Finding another remains our big priority.
Casboult may, and I emphasise MAY, be one option. We'll see how he goes this year.
Waite is Waite - can't rely on him playing the full season out.
You're dead right again Pratty in saying that we'll be relying heavily on other non-KPF types.
Until Casboult does 100 shots at goal after every training session and learns how to kick, he wont be a fwd option in the ones for us and will end up delisted. He has the tools to be a good player, maybe even great. He needs to dedicate his life to becoming an elite kick and be supremely fit. Yes the Boyds and Hogans of the world are extremely talented but they didnt become elite juniors by accident either. You can tell by listening to them speak and the way they act that they are super dedicated and hell bent on being elite. Levi comes across (to me at least and I have met him in person) as being very lazy and one who enjoys his off field very much. I like the bloke, I would love him to become great but unless he has a major change in attitude, he will be just a VFL player at best. And if any can get the best out him, its MM.
This drives me nuts! Levi has clearly changed his shape since he came the club, on the rookie list. For a guy of his size that is a hard thing to do, the clearly ran harder and further up the ground last year and I suspect he will progress again this year, you don't end up being able to run all day at 105kgs without years of development.
How the hell would you know what his attitude is like????
At 199cm, 103kg - give the lad time. From the reports I have had (from good sources) he is faR, FAR FROM LAZY.
199?
Wow, thats a bit of a growth spurt. He started off about 196 from memory, possibly 197. In any case, that puts him in the frame of short ruckman, so that can only be a good thing.
199?
Wow, thats a bit of a growth spurt. He started off about 196 from memory, possibly 197. In any case, that puts him in the frame of short ruckman, so that can only be a good thing.
Special K only 200cm.
You'd reckon Levi would have a bigger leap of late too?
Maybe although PCL injuries may have caused him some grief. He is more centre half forward than anything else.
Maybe although PCL injuries may have caused him some grief. He is more centre half forward than anything else.
MK? I'm not so sure. Once teams worked out his issues with body contact in marking contests, it was over.
Maybe although PCL injuries may have caused him some grief. He is more centre half forward than anything else.
MK? I'm not so sure. Once teams worked out his issues with body contact in marking contests, it was over.
MK is not a forward's asshole, has been tried many a time up forward (even when fit) and failed to impact the game.
Was watching the richmond final from last year and there was even a kick to Kreuzer on the lead on the wing in the first quarter that the twig Grimes was able to make Kreuzer drop with minimal contact. Isolated incident I know, but for his size, ability and status he needs to be doing way more aerially any way.
I agree that he really struggles up forward, I expected more forward nous from him but he just doesn't look natural. That being said if we do play Hendo forward and if Waites stays fit, Kreuzer on a 3rd tall would be much better. This is what recruiters like Hawthorns understand and ours dont, and why they will be trendsetters while everyone plays catch up.
The replay reminded how good Gibbs was going towards the end of last year, hope to god he improves on it. I also think Bell will be playing round 1, there is a saying that big bodies only get bigger as the game goes on. Loving the thought of Gibbs, Bell and Cripps all in there.
Was watching the richmond final from last year and there was even a kick to Kreuzer on the lead on the wing in the first quarter that the twig Grimes was able to make Kreuzer drop with minimal contact. Isolated incident I know, but for his size, ability and status he needs to be doing way more aerially any way.
I agree that he really struggles up forward, I expected more forward nous from him but he just doesn't look natural. That being said if we do play Hendo forward and if Waites stays fit, Kreuzer on a 3rd tall would be much better. This is what recruiters like Hawthorns understand and ours dont, and why they will be trendsetters while everyone plays catch up.
The replay reminded how good Gibbs was going towards the end of last year, hope to god he improves on it. I also think Bell will be playing round 1, there is a saying that big bodies only get bigger as the game goes on. Loving the thought of Gibbs, Bell and Cripps all in there.
Surely with regard to Special K it's now a confidence thing?
If he is fit and gets an extended run of games, I have little doubt he'll rediscover his mojo.
Maybe although PCL injuries may have caused him some grief. He is more centre half forward than anything else.
MK? I'm not so sure. Once teams worked out his issues with body contact in marking contests, it was over.
MK is not a forward's asshole, has been tried many a time up forward (even when fit) and failed to impact the game.
Probably not the nicest way to voice your opinion. Not a forwards asshole ? Really ?
You mean?
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6lndXiC32waKVu5sRBf6OX2Q5EZz3MILr5ZKHC24RoqSj3u1M)
Maybe although PCL injuries may have caused him some grief. He is more centre half forward than anything else.
MK? I'm not so sure. Once teams worked out his issues with body contact in marking contests, it was over.
MK is not a forward's asshole, has been tried many a time up forward (even when fit) and failed to impact the game.
Probably not the nicest way to voice your opinion. Not a forwards asshole ? Really ?
It's not meant to offend, it's a figure of speech.
Maybe although PCL injuries may have caused him some grief. He is more centre half forward than anything else.
MK? I'm not so sure. Once teams worked out his issues with body contact in marking contests, it was over.
Na we were talking about Casboult.
At the end of the day, both of them are what they are, and were hurt more by the lack of other forward targets than their abilities to play forward.
Matty Kreuzer was going well when Fev was down there, and his drop in ability to play forward just happened to coincide with Fev's departure. You get Waite and Hendo down there, and I reckon Kreuzer will come to the fore with his ability to play forward.
Ditto Casboult. He is a big lug of a bloke who struggles by himself, and the answer is, opposing defences are able to cope better. The best talls in the game today always seem to have other targets sharing forward fifty with them to make them play one out. That is the key to making a key forward shine.
Maybe although PCL injuries may have caused him some grief. He is more centre half forward than anything else.
MK? I'm not so sure. Once teams worked out his issues with body contact in marking contests, it was over.
Na we were talking about Casboult.
At the end of the day, both of them are what they are, and were hurt more by the lack of other forward targets than their abilities to play forward.
Matty Kreuzer was going well when Fev was down there, and his drop in ability to play forward just happened to coincide with Fev's departure. You get Waite and Hendo down there, and I reckon Kreuzer will come to the fore with his ability to play forward.
Ditto Casboult. He is a big lug of a bloke who struggles by himself, and the answer is, opposing defences are able to cope better. The best talls in the game today always seem to have other targets sharing forward fifty with them to make them play one out. That is the key to making a key forward shine.
Nail.hit.head re our tall blokes playing forward IMO Thry.
I have said that we need probably two other marking taller types to play forward with someone like MK, Rowe or Cas. Just Waite and Casboult for example with 4 smalls around them is not the answer and does not work IMO. We now have mult-positional players that we can use back and forward as marking targets such as - Walker, Everitt, Henderson, Waite, Watson, White, Giles). They are taller types that with say a Waite and a MK or Casboult can help out. Replying on Garlett or Yarran (used to be Betts) to play the marking forward is not on.
The other thing for me is the MK, Cas and Rowe need to play deeper forward as they just don't seem to be the CHF type of guys. Maybe if we don't want both Waite and Hendo forward with say a MK, Rowe or Cas then we should look at one of Waite/Hendo and one of MK/Rowe/Cas and 1-2 of Walker, Everitt, Watson, White or Giles.
As long as we play TWO key forwards all game every game, we are too easy for the better teams as their defenders just sag off. We need to make sure we are creating one on ones and keeping opposition defenders occupied. Then the likes of Garlett, Yarran, Walker if he plays forward, Menzel and co will have greater impact, not to mention the resting ruck.
Was watching the richmond final from last year and there was even a kick to Kreuzer on the lead on the wing in the first quarter that the twig Grimes was able to make Kreuzer drop with minimal contact. Isolated incident I know, but for his size, ability and status he needs to be doing way more aerially any way.
I agree that he really struggles up forward, I expected more forward nous from him but he just doesn't look natural. That being said if we do play Hendo forward and if Waites stays fit, Kreuzer on a 3rd tall would be much better. This is what recruiters like Hawthorns understand and ours dont, and why they will be trendsetters while everyone plays catch up.
The replay reminded how good Gibbs was going towards the end of last year, hope to god he improves on it. I also think Bell will be playing round 1, there is a saying that big bodies only get bigger as the game goes on. Loving the thought of Gibbs, Bell and Cripps all in there.
Surely with regard to Special K it's now a confidence thing?
If he is fit and gets an extended run of games, I have little doubt he'll rediscover his mojo.
I can only hope you are right flyboy. He can string a couple of good games together but not much more. I remember everyone getting on Hendo's back but boy is confidence an amazing thing. Hope for his and our sake he finds whatever Hendo found.
Mick's latest thoughts...
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-02-10/cfc-tv-malthouse-previews-2014 (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-02-10/cfc-tv-malthouse-previews-2014)
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-02-25/cfc-tv-cripps-post-match (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-02-25/cfc-tv-cripps-post-match)
The lad has exceptionally quick hands. Will be a gem.
Maybe although PCL injuries may have caused him some grief. He is more centre half forward than anything else.
MK? I'm not so sure. Once teams worked out his issues with body contact in marking contests, it was over.
MK is not a forward's asshole, has been tried many a time up forward (even when fit) and failed to impact the game.
I actually thought MKs efforts on Monday were very promising. Dropped a shightload of marks but that was down to rustiness. The main thing is he consistently beat his man to get his hands to the ball first in the marking contest. That's his weakness. Fix that and the rest will come with match fitness.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-02-25/cfc-tv-cripps-post-match (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-02-25/cfc-tv-cripps-post-match)
The lad has exceptionally quick hands. Will be a gem.
As Bruce would say, does look 'Special'.
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-02-25/cfc-tv-cripps-post-match (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-02-25/cfc-tv-cripps-post-match)
The lad has exceptionally quick hands. Will be a gem.
As Bruce would say, does look 'Special'.
Starts with special, and then moves to delicious. ;D
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-02-25/cfc-tv-cripps-post-match (http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2014-02-25/cfc-tv-cripps-post-match)
The lad has exceptionally quick hands. Will be a gem.
As Bruce would say, does look 'Special'.
Should have been 50 against Sloane after Cripps took that mark early on in the highlights reel?
I think so, you cant pull his pants down after he has marked the footy.
I think Cripps will be there in the 22 come rd 1 now, considering Judd and Carrots and he deserves it. I also think I like Everitt in the forward line especially with his goal kicking seeming to be decent. Playing him as a 3rd tall would really stretch defences behind Waite and Hendo. All 3 are mobile as well which is good.
I think the Hawks had the perfect set up last year and I wouldnt mind seeing, Waite and Hendo (Buddy and Roughy) Everitt/Walker (Gunston) Kreuzer (Hale) Warnock (Bailey). Not the same quality of players I know but I think its more structured and potent.
I think Cripps will be there in the 22 come rd 1 now, considering Judd and Carrots and he deserves it. I also think I like Everitt in the forward line especially with his goal kicking seeming to be decent. Playing him as a 3rd tall would really stretch defences behind Waite and Hendo. All 3 are mobile as well which is good.
I think the Hawks had the perfect set up last year and I wouldnt mind seeing, Waite and Hendo (Buddy and Roughy) Everitt/Walker (Gunston) Kreuzer (Hale) Warnock (Bailey). Not the same quality of players I know but I think its more structured and potent.
Yep I agree with this setup. We need structure in our big blokes, depth in our running and midfield stocks.
Its hard to know what level our big blokes are capable of getting to. We certainly need blokes that are more durable than we currently have. They just don't get on the park often enough and top fitness at the one time. Hopefully this changes.
I think Cripps will be there in the 22 come rd 1 now, considering Judd and Carrots and he deserves it. I also think I like Everitt in the forward line especially with his goal kicking seeming to be decent. Playing him as a 3rd tall would really stretch defences behind Waite and Hendo. All 3 are mobile as well which is good.
I think the Hawks had the perfect set up last year and I wouldnt mind seeing, Waite and Hendo (Buddy and Roughy) Everitt/Walker (Gunston) Kreuzer (Hale) Warnock (Bailey). Not the same quality of players I know but I think its more structured and potent.
Yep I agree with this setup. We need structure in our big blokes, depth in our running and midfield stocks.
Its hard to know what level our big blokes are capable of getting to. We certainly need blokes that are more durable than we currently have. They just don't get on the park often enough and top fitness at the one time. Hopefully this changes.
Exactly right Pratty. The fact they dont play a lot together is a major problem, and the setup I mentioned will only work if Jamo and Watson can stay fit and in-form so we don't have to swing Waite or Hendo back. Which means we are back to our lame 1 key forward 1 ruck forward line setup.
For mine, Hendo has to play forward for most of the year no matter what is happening at the other end as we need to see if he has what it takes to become the man up forward and be the one to build the forward line around for the future. Because if not we may need to get the cheque book out soon, because Waite hasnt got long and the likes of Casboult are still long shots. A spine of Jamison, Watson, Henderson and Waite has to play most if not every game.
I think Cripps will be there in the 22 come rd 1 now, considering Judd and Carrots and he deserves it. I also think I like Everitt in the forward line especially with his goal kicking seeming to be decent. Playing him as a 3rd tall would really stretch defences behind Waite and Hendo. All 3 are mobile as well which is good.
I think the Hawks had the perfect set up last year and I wouldnt mind seeing, Waite and Hendo (Buddy and Roughy) Everitt/Walker (Gunston) Kreuzer (Hale) Warnock (Bailey). Not the same quality of players I know but I think its more structured and potent.
Yep I agree with this setup. We need structure in our big blokes, depth in our running and midfield stocks.
Its hard to know what level our big blokes are capable of getting to. We certainly need blokes that are more durable than we currently have. They just don't get on the park often enough and top fitness at the one time. Hopefully this changes.
Exactly right Pratty. The fact they dont play a lot together is a major problem, and the setup I mentioned will only work if Jamo and Watson can stay fit and in-form so we don't have to swing Waite or Hendo back. Which means we are back to our lame 1 key forward 1 ruck forward line setup.
For mine, Hendo has to play forward for most of the year no matter what is happening at the other end as we need to see if he has what it takes to become the man up forward and be the one to build the forward line around for the future. Because if not we may need to get the cheque book out soon, because Waite hasnt got long and the likes of Casboult are still long shots. A spine of Jamison, Watson, Henderson and Waite has to play most if not every game.
They do have to play most if not every game I do agree 100% Jean-Claude because we certainly didn't trade in or draft any ready-made big blokes. Giles looks a good kid to have IMO and Watson has shown some good early signs that we hope continue but we decided not to go after the likes of Jesse White and Luke Delaney and didn't draft in Joel Tippett or Mitch Thorp for example so we need our big blokes to stand up. Pressure and spotlight is fair and square on them which is fine with me. They fall over then we seriously need to look at their futures. We simply need players that play longer (in any position but partic the bigger blokes) so that we can build our structures and flanks, etc around.
Faith had obviously been placed in our existing talls brigade - they have this year to show it's justified. Otherwise there will be a big clear out and rebuild in that area IMO.
Perhaps the club felt that the talls on offer were not an improvement over those we have.
I think Cripps will be there in the 22 come rd 1 now, considering Judd and Carrots and he deserves it. I also think I like Everitt in the forward line especially with his goal kicking seeming to be decent. Playing him as a 3rd tall would really stretch defences behind Waite and Hendo. All 3 are mobile as well which is good.
I think the Hawks had the perfect set up last year and I wouldnt mind seeing, Waite and Hendo (Buddy and Roughy) Everitt/Walker (Gunston) Kreuzer (Hale) Warnock (Bailey). Not the same quality of players I know but I think its more structured and potent.
Yep I agree with this setup. We need structure in our big blokes, depth in our running and midfield stocks.
Its hard to know what level our big blokes are capable of getting to. We certainly need blokes that are more durable than we currently have. They just don't get on the park often enough and top fitness at the one time. Hopefully this changes.
Exactly right Pratty. The fact they dont play a lot together is a major problem, and the setup I mentioned will only work if Jamo and Watson can stay fit and in-form so we don't have to swing Waite or Hendo back. Which means we are back to our lame 1 key forward 1 ruck forward line setup.
For mine, Hendo has to play forward for most of the year no matter what is happening at the other end as we need to see if he has what it takes to become the man up forward and be the one to build the forward line around for the future. Because if not we may need to get the cheque book out soon, because Waite hasnt got long and the likes of Casboult are still long shots. A spine of Jamison, Watson, Henderson and Waite has to play most if not every game.
They do have to play most if not every game I do agree 100% Jean-Claude because we certainly didn't trade in or draft any ready-made big blokes. Giles looks a good kid to have IMO and Watson has shown some good early signs that we hope continue but we decided not to go after the likes of Jesse White and Luke Delaney and didn't draft in Joel Tippett or Mitch Thorp for example so we need our big blokes to stand up. Pressure and spotlight is fair and square on them which is fine with me. They fall over then we seriously need to look at their futures. We simply need players that play longer (in any position but partic the bigger blokes) so that we can build our structures and flanks, etc around.
x2.
@cookie and djc
I think you both make correct comments. There is no point in making changes for changes sake only and you waste more time trying to get someone on the right page. But yes I do think there is interesting times ahead in the bigs department, Malthouse wont get caught sitting on his hands me thinks and will look to bring someone in I feel, unlike after 2011 when we just expected things to happen rather than make it.
@JC, he'll have no choice but to make it happen next season. There'll be a bit of coin to spend as well you'd imagine.
Nobody had Buckley in their starting 22 for 2014. Is he a chance and who does he replace??
Nobody had Buckley in their starting 22 for 2014. Is he a chance and who does he replace??
He's definitely a chance for mine but may be in the queue, same for Ellard. Having said that., those two boys and Crippsy have given us a little bit of extra go and dynamic so I am pretty happy with that.
Having said that, Bucks can play small forward and wing so he can play a variety of roles and Ellard is a different type of small forward tatn we've had - different to Betts, Garlett and Yarran and I like that!
Nobody had Buckley in their starting 22 for 2014. Is he a chance and who does he replace??
Remote chance IMO....Cripps, Everitt and Thomas will be the new players for rnd 1 IMO.
http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/2014-preview-carlton-5205176.html (http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/2014-preview-carlton-5205176.html)
http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/2014-preview-carlton-5205176.html (http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/2014-preview-carlton-5205176.html)
They got it right...we wont be able to kick enough goals with our present setup, Henderson is our only hope down forward to partner Waite with success and is the key player if we are to make finals and get anywhere.
Casboult, Rowe and Kruezer wont get it done and are just plodders up forward filling positions but not taking us anyhwere...
http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/2014-preview-carlton-5205176.html (http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/2014-preview-carlton-5205176.html)
They got it right...we wont be able to kick enough goals with our present setup, Henderson is our only hope down forward to partner Waite with success and is the key player if we are to make finals and get anywhere.
Casboult, Rowe and Kruezer wont get it done and are just plodders up forward filling positions but not taking us anyhwere...
Does Kreuzer play #1 ruck and Casboult backup/forward or does Warnock play #1 with Kreuzer backup/forward?
It's obvious that Wood will be elevated, as none of the other eligible rookies have been given a game in the NAB challenge. Could he be in the mix?
http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/2014-preview-carlton-5205176.html (http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/2014-preview-carlton-5205176.html)
They got it right...we wont be able to kick enough goals with our present setup, Henderson is our only hope down forward to partner Waite with success and is the key player if we are to make finals and get anywhere.
Casboult, Rowe and Kruezer wont get it done and are just plodders up forward filling positions but not taking us anyhwere...
Agree, with Eddie gone, if Waite and Hendo don't last the season we will have a problem kicking enough goals. Unless of course someone like Menzel or Jeffy or someone else steps up. Our defence will also be tested.
Menzel is an option and so too is Everitt if Watson can hold a spot down in defence. We still have a few options but Kreuzer, and Casboult along with Rowe need to show they are genuine. Otherwise we may be trading payers away at the end of the season. By what I have heard about Wood he is an option as a forward.
http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/2014-preview-carlton-5205176.html (http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/2014-preview-carlton-5205176.html)
They got it right...we wont be able to kick enough goals with our present setup, Henderson is our only hope down forward to partner Waite with success and is the key player if we are to make finals and get anywhere.
Casboult, Rowe and Kruezer wont get it done and are just plodders up forward filling positions but not taking us anyhwere...
Agree, with Eddie gone, if Waite and Hendo don't last the season we will have a problem kicking enough goals. Unless of course someone like Menzel or Jeffy or someone else steps up. Our defence will also be tested.
Cookie..The only other option and the one who I would have playing forward is Andrew Walker..., a proven 50 goal a season player who could give us an edge providing the coach thinks he isnt needed down back and I'm all for winning games rather than saving them, lets hope Mick is in attacking frame of mind.
Everitt is a floater IMO....you play him where you think he gives us an edge but dont pidgeon hole him in one spot .
@EB1
Agree about 1AW Elwood. I've always preferred to see him play forward - he is much more a natural forward than a defender IMO, and is an accurate kick for goal.
@EB1
Agree about 1AW Elwood. I've always preferred to see him play forward - he is much more a natural forward than a defender IMO, and is an accurate kick for goal.
This is where stubborn Mick has to concede that Ratts actually got that one right. The loss of Betts shall be lessened by the inclusion of Walker, Menzel and even Judd into the forward line on a regular basis.
@EB
Agree play Walker up front for sure, even if it means Everitt goes down back.
None of these blokes mentioend above will be pigeon holed. Add Yarran, Tuohy, White to that mix. They along with Eevritt, Walker, henderson, Waite, Rowe, watson will play forward and back. We recrited Everitt to allow Walks to move forward more cos McInnes and Bootsma aint cutting it at all. Whiet is coming back from a serious injury but i reckon he may be better forward, nevertheless he would be targeted to play 3rd tall deep in defence to allow the likes of Walker and Everitt in particular to play half-back and half-forward and NOT be tragged deep into defence too often.
Everitt will allow Walks to go forward - neither will be permanent forward IMO well according to MM anyway so blind freddy could tell you walker will play forward much mroe this year. So we know this already as we do that henderson will play forward and Watson will be our startring CHB. e have to do this and see how we go. Be prepared people to cop some knocks on Watto but lets hope he continues to improve and win more contests than lose and get some confidence up which he has notibly done already this preseason IMo with a much better and stronger and fitter body shape. Quite clearly trimmer where he needs to be, stronger and more of a muslce tone. Clear as day and needed to happen.
Example:
The backs will be - Jamison, Watson, Everitt/Walker, Tuohy, Yarran, Simpson
The forwards will be - Waite, Henderson, Walker/Everitt, Kreuzer, Garlett, Menzel
Rucks - Warnock, Kreuzer
Forward rotations - all onballers (eg. Murphy, Gibbs, Thomas, Judd, Carrazzo, McLean, Robinson, Ellard, Cripps, Graham)
We need a huge spike in improvemnet from Casboult, Rowe, McInnes, Bootsma, Lucas and co. Otherwise, seeya come seasons end.
Who will kick the goals in 2014:
Hendo - 30-40.
Jeff G - 40 odd.
Menzel - 30 odd.
Walker/Everitt - (combined) - 40 odd.
Judd/Murph/McLean - (comb) - 40 odd.
Yazz - 30 odd (he kicked 26 last year without playing forward a lot)
Waite - 20 odd.
Hawks top 10 in 2013?
Rank Name Games Total
1 J. Roughead 25 72
2 Lance Franklin 21 60
3 Jack Gunston 23 46
4 Luke Breust 25 40
5 David Hale 24 20
6 Cyril Rioli 15 19
7 Shaun Burgoyne 23 18
7 Bradley Hill 24 18
7 Isaac Smith 24 18
10 Jordan Lewis 24 17