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Questions

Five rounds in and I’m feeling a bit disappointed. In part it’s because I was expecting the team to build on last year’s efforts, but it seems they’ve decided to strip things back even further before starting to put it all back together.

I understand the approach that’s being taken and that any success coming from it will take time….but that doesn’t stop me from wondering about a few things.

You see… nothing is guaranteed in football.

So comments like … “Give them time and we’ll reap the benefits!” …”Wait until they’ve played 50 games together and see how good they’ll be!” don’t mean a lot to me.  They’re just optimistic guesses.

The reality is that this time we’re trying a different approach to the past. Whether it’s a successful approach is yet to be determined. So while we wait to see the outcome it’s quite legitimate to keep asking questions and judge performances… as we see them at the time.

Here are some of the things that I’m not sure about just at the moment….and the reality is anyone trying to answer some  them is just expressing a  “gut” guess... but by all means have a stab! We’ll have to wait a season or probably longer for the answers. Some will remain a mystery.

Q1-What did Bolton really think going into this last game? Did he expect the possibility of a 100 point thrashing or did he expect the kids to put on a bit of a show?
Q2-Has that result influenced the selection process for upcoming games?
Q3-No doubt youngsters will benefit from game time… but is that more beneficial when you’re surrounded by more experienced players?
Q4-What do the senior players feel about being surrounded by such a young group? How do they feel about carrying an extra burden with the knowledge that they may not be around to taste any success?
Q5-How do experienced fringe players feel about being passed over for selection to get games into kids? The message for these guys is “You’re finished!”…how does that affect team dynamics? They may not be the future but they are the “here and now” and as such can be a positive or a negative influence depending on how they’re managed.
Q6-Despite comments to the contrary, wins don’t seem to be important at the moment and it’s all about development. But how long can folk hold the faith while that process occurs?
Q7-How good a match day and tactical coach is Bolton. He has wraps on him as a developer of character. What’s he like as a developer of footballers.
Q8-Are we asking too much of Weitering and Cripps…both appear to be hampered by injuries that aren’t serious enough to stop them from playing but what’s the mental toll of continuing to push the injured body?
Q9-We’ve seen some “flashes of brilliance” by a few of the young fellows (e.g.Fisher’s goal) but does that necessarily indicate a champ in the making? I remember a “weave and dodge” from Boekhorst in one of his early games that had us a bit excited, but nothing much has come of that….yet. These guys will develop at different rates. Some won’t meet expectations others will exceed them.
Q10-Can we hold the group together? Players like Cripps and Weitering, should they continue their development, will attract decent offers down the track. Will we be at a stage where some of the burden has been shouldered by others and they’re happy to stay?

Some of these will impact in the short term, others are longer term considerations but they do indicate that the rebuild process is a little more complicated than just “Wait a couple of years and everything will be fine.”

Re: Questions

Reply #1 –
Q1-What did Bolton really think going into this last game? Did he expect a 100 point thrashing or did he expect the kids to put on a bit of a show?  A thrashing. He explained that this was the ONLY Friday night game for the year and was too good an opportunity to miss out on for those teenagers.
Q2-Has that result influenced the selection process for upcoming games? I hope not. I doubt it.
Q3-No doubt youngsters will benefit from game time… but is that more beneficial when you’re surrounded by more experienced players?Most of our experienced players weren't up to it and were moved on. GWS provides a good example of where we're headed.
Q4-What do the senior players feel about being surrounded by such a young group? How do they feel about carrying an extra burden with the knowledge that they may not be around to taste any success? This is professional football and that is what they're paid to do. Only 22 players out of 750 listed players in the AFL can be premiers in any one season. Some miss out.
Q5-How do experienced fringe players feel about being passed over for selection to get games into kids? The message for these guys is “You’re finished!”…how does that affect team dynamics? They may not be the future but they are the “here and now” and as such can be a positive or a negative influence depending on how they’re managed.Games are given based on merit. Nobody has a given right to play. You must earn it.
Q6-Despite comments to the contrary, wins don’t seem to be important at the moment and it’s all about development. But how long can folk hold the faith while that process occurs? Those that are true supporters will hang on as long as necessary. Hopefully, success will be sooner, rather than later.
Q7-How good a match day and tactical coach is Bolton. He has wraps on him as a developer of character. What’s he like as a developer of footballers.That's what assistant coaches are there for. Also, Bolts has a mentor that he can bounce ideas off. I don't think our lack of recent success has anything to do with game style or planning.
Q8-Are we asking too much of Weitering and Cripps…both appear to be hampered by injuries that aren’t serious enough to stop them from playing but what’s the mental toll of continuing to push the injured body?The mantra has been to endure through adversity. These guys are leading by example. They will be managed through these niggles. We have a 9 day break this time around.
Q9-We’ve seen some “flashes of brilliance” by a few of the young fellows (e.g.Fisher’s goal) but does that necessarily indicate a champ in the making? I remember a “weave and dodge” from Boekhorst in one of his early games that had us a bit excited, but nothing much has come of that….yet. These guys will develop at different rates. Some won’t meet expectations others will exceed them. And...that is football. The coaches will do everything possible to get these guys playing good, football consistently.
Q10-Can we hold the group together? Players like Cripps and Weitering, should they continue their development, will attract decent offers down the track. Will we be at a stage where some of the burden has been shouldered by others and they’re happy to stay?That's the plan. I'M sure they and their managers can see that. The guys love playing under Bolton.

Re: Questions

Reply #2 –
1. Judging by his presser, I think he was caught off guard, and a little surprised by the result.

2. Depends on whether they think the selection process is right. If so, then it depends on whether Bolton and Co have real coglioni, whether the club is really united, as to whether they will continue with this course, and expect floggings. If they realize they erred, then a change needs to occur.

3. Yes.

4. Depends on their character, history at the club etc. Some will be pissed, some will soldier on and do what they always do.

5. See 4 above.

6. depends on the person - a lot depends on whether or not you believe in the current regime. Some want instant results, some will believe that poor results don't alter the fact that the club is on the right path. Some people also have greater footy knowledge, and may be able to see the less obvious improvements that others cannot.

7. This is an important question for mine. IMO, he has a fair bit to learn. When I heard about the impromptu training session where kids could play kick to kick with the players a week or two ago, on the one hand I thought it was a lovely gesture, on the other it worried me a little because it seemed a little like a publicity stunt that should not really be the concern of the coach. I don't know whether he was directly responsible, but it had his fingerprints all over it IMO. I also wonder whether his interview(s) for the coaching job were filled with the sorts of answers that the panel wanted to hear, as opposed to a "pure" football person. Did they select him because he is very good at interviews ? I wonder.

8. Yes.

9. No one can answer that. I'm sure plenty of great players have stunk it up in their first few games. Admittedly, I can't think of any.

10. Success is best glue available in any team sport.

Re: Questions

Reply #3 –
Great questions Lods and you're right, most cant be answered just yet. But here is my take away from the whole situation:
- W.r.t. to older blokes, I would have thought they would have been told straight that the first priority is the kids and their development. I would have the thought they would have been told they are playing an important but support role.
There are two key figures leading the two main departments which control our fate, BB and SOS.
- BB comes from a system that has achieved the ultimate success 4 times out of the last 9 and made it to the big dance 4 of the last 5. So he knows what it takes and is a teacher young men so all the ingredients are there with him. He has surrounded himself with good blend of young and experienced assistants also from successful systems.
- SOS has built a list a GWS which is starting to reap rewards now. Yes they had concessions but talent/need identification is his strength (so I have been told) and he seems to be nutting and solving the problems with our list (together with BB).
So whilst there a many questions ATM which we cant answer, In my mind, the two gentlemen I have mentioned above could an answer them if you had them both in a room. Now that wont happen so we just need to have some faith. The other thing that gives me confidence is that they are doing things like never before done at Carlton for as long as I can remember.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Questions

Reply #5 –
Lods what you are asking really is applicable widely to AFL football and to clubs striving for success. OK, we got ourselves into a bad place and things are tougher from where we are.

Our only option really is to claw our way back to success following a carefully constructed plan that covers all aspects and eventualities that can possibly be thought of and planned for. We just have to hope that we have the right people in the club who are capable of doing this planning and execution. I don't think we have been presented yet with any concrete evidence that this is not the case so we just have to be patient for now. As with life in general, nothing is guaranteed.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Questions

Reply #7 –
My intention wasn't to come across as too critical or negative.
I don't know the answers...I'm hoping those in charge at the club have a good handle on some of these.
They're just some things that I'm wondering about Round 5 2017.



Re: Questions

Reply #8 –
Quote from: PaulP on
There you go - right under my nose.

In fairness to Simmo, back when he started in 2003 it was common for the 4th interchange player to be barely used and maybe only get a handful of minutes late in a game. It wasn't the heavy rotations like there are now.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Questions

Reply #9 –
Quote from: LP on
In fairness to Simmo, back when he started in 2003 it was common for the 4th interchange player to be barely used and maybe only get a handful of minutes late in a game. It wasn't the heavy rotations like there are now.

I guess so. At any rate, we all know the old cliche - It's not where you start etc.

Re: Questions

Reply #10 –
Quote from: PaulP on
I guess so. At any rate, we all know the old cliche - It's not where you start etc.

True, but I have to concede we all need help, and that where you end can depend on the action of others.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Questions

Reply #11 –
Five rounds in, and we are exactly where I expected to be.

I know some people deluded themselves somewhat and expected positive results and perhaps a surprise finals berth, but the reality is that was provided best case scenarios occurred.

That being said the bottom spots on the ladder are reserved for teams where the wheels have completely fallen off.  That could still happen to us, but I doubt it.  Looks like that will be freo, North, hawthorn or Sydney at this stage.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Questions

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Lods on
Kade Simpson ;)

From the past - Kouta. Maclure. Justin Madden. Doull (spent 2 years in the reserves).

Recently - Fevola. Betts. Kennedy. Cripps. 

Re: Questions

Reply #13 –
Fevola - 62 disposals in his first 10 games. 13 goals.

Silvagni, J. - 100 disposals. 9 goals.

Re: Questions

Reply #14 –
Check this site.

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Justin_Madden.html

You can get any player's stats from every game he has played in order. You will soon see that it takes at least 2-3 years for most (there are some exceptions) 18-19 year olds to develop into established players.