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Poll

Who would you like to see as the next Captain of the Carlton football club?

Patrick Cripps
[ 39 ] (66.1%)
Sam Docherty
[ 18 ] (30.5%)
Other
[ 2 ] (3.4%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Topic: Next Captain (Read 24117 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Next Captain

Reply #30
Even if Cripps gets it the Doc would likely still play a big leadership role and would likely be the general of our defence.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #31
A couple pros and cons if you will.

Docherty
Pros
 - Has the game in front of him
 - Has a level head
 - Young and consistent

Cons
 - Coming off an injury, may never be the same player again
 - Needs to focus on his body first and foremost, doing a knee is a 24 month recovery (12 months physical, 12 months mental)
 - Cannot grab the game by the scruff of the neck
 - Smaller in stature

Cripps
Pros
 - Can influence the game being in the thick of the contest
 - Can push forward if/when required to assert his dominance on the game
 - Young and consistent
 - Freakish size and knows how to use it
 - Emotional, can be uplifting

Cons
 - Emotional, can be distracting
 - Might miss out on the bigger picture being in the clinches

I think i've covered everything off there.

Based on that, i reckon i've convinced myself that Cripps should be it.

Really comes down to bad timing for Doc, and Cripps' ability to turn/influence a game.

Without knowing the internal dynamics of the players, Bolton's ideas on captaincy etc. I think you're being rather presumptuous. And that list looks exactly like what it is - a list generated by a fan and spectator, not a club insider.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #32
Without knowing the internal dynamics of the players, Bolton's ideas on captaincy etc. I think you're being rather presumptuous. And that list looks exactly like what it is - a list generated by a fan and spectator, not a club insider.

Did i give you the impression that i was anything but?
What a weird comment.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #33
A couple pros and cons if you will.

Docherty
Pros
 - Has the game in front of him
 - Has a level head
 - Young and consistent

Cons
 - Coming off an injury, may never be the same player again
 - Needs to focus on his body first and foremost, doing a knee is a 24 month recovery (12 months physical, 12 months mental)
 - Cannot grab the game by the scruff of the neck
 - Smaller in stature

Cripps
Pros
 - Can influence the game being in the thick of the contest
 - Can push forward if/when required to assert his dominance on the game
 - Young and consistent
 - Freakish size and knows how to use it
 - Emotional, can be uplifting

Cons
 - Emotional, can be distracting
 - Might miss out on the bigger picture being in the clinches

I think i've covered everything off there.

Based on that, i reckon i've convinced myself that Cripps should be it.

Really comes down to bad timing for Doc, and Cripps' ability to turn/influence a game.

Cripps is physical and can look after his smaller team mates and I know its an old fashioned idea but I prefer a bigger player as captain who can
show aggression and get his teammates to follow him into battle. Docherty is a good intelligent footballer but he is a classy choirboy, we need a different captain with so many young kids.
We need a warrior not a classical band leader....

Re: Next Captain

Reply #34
Enjoy the Crippa show

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2018-04-23/captain-cripps-delivers

2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Next Captain

Reply #35
Did i give you the impression that i was anything but?
What a weird comment.

The point I was making is that what we see on the outside may bear little representation to what the club thinks. It's possible the playing group think Cripps is a tool. It's possible that Doc hobnobbing with the coaches, MC etc. for a year enhances rather than diminishes his captaincy prospects etc.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #36
You missed a massive con for cripps.   He can be exposed by a quick opponent and can be caught not being accountable.

He won't be like that his whole career but Docherty is anything but unaccountable.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Next Captain

Reply #37
Cripps and Docherty.

Either one would do a good job.
I spent most of my money on Women and grog.
The rest I just wasted.

Re: Next Captain

Reply #38
You missed a massive con for cripps.   He can be exposed by a quick opponent and can be caught not being accountable.

He won't be like that his whole career but Docherty is anything but unaccountable.

Not being accountable?
There is nothing more accountable than winning contested footy all day and carrying your teams hopes on your back at the ripe old age of 23.
We can all role out the old, he didn't chase at the 12 minute mark story....
The poor bloke is probably exhausted after his fourth effort in 2 minutes and we want to judge him on his accountability?
I can't wait for Murphy to become accountable like that

The kid busts his gut week in week out. His body gets smashed and he smashes the opposition in order to give our other mids an easier ride.

It reminds me of posters on here questioning Judds accountability. Seriously screwing laughable


Re: Next Captain

Reply #39
Not being accountable?
There is nothing more accountable than winning contested footy all day and carrying your teams hopes on your back at the ripe old age of 23.
We can all role out the old, he didn't chase at the 12 minute mark story....
The poor bloke is probably exhausted after his fourth effort in 2 minutes and we want to judge him on his accountability?
I can't wait for Murphy to become accountable like that

The kid busts his gut week in week out. His body gets smashed and he smashes the opposition in order to give our other mids an easier ride.

It reminds me of posters on here questioning Judds accountability. Seriously screwing laughable

It's not NRL, there is far more to being accountable in AFL than just jogging to the next contest no matter how many of those contests you win! ;)

Cripps will get better, which is the whole point or both your own and Thry's posts.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Next Captain

Reply #40
Not being accountable?
There is nothing more accountable than winning contested footy all day and carrying your teams hopes on your back at the ripe old age of 23.
We can all role out the old, he didn't chase at the 12 minute mark story....
The poor bloke is probably exhausted after his fourth effort in 2 minutes and we want to judge him on his accountability?
I can't wait for Murphy to become accountable like that

The kid busts his gut week in week out. His body gets smashed and he smashes the opposition in order to give our other mids an easier ride.

It reminds me of posters on here questioning Judds accountability. Seriously screwing laughable

I understand you disagree, but I've seen Cripps give up on chasing men multiple times the last few weeks and this week vs West Coast, when they elected not to tag him, it didn't happen.

Collingwood did it.
North Melbourne did it.

he will learn from it, but the fact still remains that a quick opponent who could run off him could heavily expose him.

At AFL level if there is one thing I have learned from Murphy's captaincy is that teams look to exploit any weakness they have at any opportunity they can because beating the captain can be the key to winning a game and Cripps has weaknesses in his game that can be exploited.  That's a con, and its one that Kruddler missed in his summation.

I also believe Cripps will make a fine captain, its just something for him and the club to think about and work on.  I know a week is a long time in football, but the club, the MC and Cripps need to find a way to nullify that weakness irrespective of whether or not you believe it exists.

Finally on Murphy, we all know he has been an ordinary captain, but he works his dot off, and I can't knock him for that.  Hes not hercules, he has smashed his body from pillar to post in the clinches for us, and hasnt been durable and strong enough to endure it, and deserves a little more respect than the average punter gives him because irrespective of how badly he gets smashed he still continues to put his body on the line week in and week out, and Ive noted his tackling has improved a bit this season (lets not forget hes wrecked his shoulder twice playing for our footy club, and once they break they stay broken and make tackling difficult).
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Next Captain

Reply #41
Cripps isnt going to chase many or catch them...thats just a fact, he isn quick and it will never be part of his game, he needs to get it 30-40 times a week to make up for it, like Sam Mitchell did for example..
Teams tag Cripps or they have a outside runner play off him and hope to hurt us that way, his teammates are going to have to provide cover and chase his man like he provides cover for them at the coalface.
Its a game of odds where you back Cripps to do more damage like he did vs WC....

Re: Next Captain

Reply #42
Finally on Murphy, we all know he has been an ordinary captain, but he works his dot off, and I can't knock him for that.  Hes not hercules, he has smashed his body from pillar to post in the clinches for us, and hasnt been durable and strong enough to endure it, and deserves a little more respect than the average punter gives him because irrespective of how badly he gets smashed he still continues to put his body on the line week in and week out, and Ive noted his tackling has improved a bit this season (lets not forget hes wrecked his shoulder twice playing for our footy club, and once they break they stay broken and make tackling difficult).

Lately I've read more and more posters making these points, why have they taken so long to surface?

This debate about captaincy is mired in stereotypes, perceptions and personal preferences. The irony for me is that I cannot say Judd was a Hodge or Brown type captain, yet he copped none of the invective Murphy has to deal with! Ablett Jnr is another, yet stat for stat Murphy is the closest we have to an Ablett Jnr type, and Ablett Jnr was unquestionably the captain! So what is the measure that determines good, bad or ordinary?

The majority of critical posts seem anchored in the realm that A-Graders and Leaders have to be a certain type of player, and if they are not that type they are NBG as leaders. I know fans do not believe that, and to continually demand it from players who clearly do not fit that mold is just bizarre!

The same posters do not complain when Casboult fails to play like Rioli, why do they ask Murphy to play like Hodge?
The Force Awakens!

Re: Next Captain

Reply #43
I understand you disagree, but I've seen Cripps give up on chasing men multiple times the last few weeks and this week vs West Coast, when they elected not to tag him, it didn't happen.

Collingwood did it.
North Melbourne did it.

he will learn from it, but the fact still remains that a quick opponent who could run off him could heavily expose him.

At AFL level if there is one thing I have learned from Murphy's captaincy is that teams look to exploit any weakness they have at any opportunity they can because beating the captain can be the key to winning a game and Cripps has weaknesses in his game that can be exploited.  That's a con, and its one that Kruddler missed in his summation.

I also believe Cripps will make a fine captain, its just something for him and the club to think about and work on.  I know a week is a long time in football, but the club, the MC and Cripps need to find a way to nullify that weakness irrespective of whether or not you believe it exists.

Finally on Murphy, we all know he has been an ordinary captain, but he works his dot off, and I can't knock him for that.  Hes not hercules, he has smashed his body from pillar to post in the clinches for us, and hasnt been durable and strong enough to endure it, and deserves a little more respect than the average punter gives him because irrespective of how badly he gets smashed he still continues to put his body on the line week in and week out, and Ive noted his tackling has improved a bit this season (lets not forget hes wrecked his shoulder twice playing for our footy club, and once they break they stay broken and make tackling difficult).

Two points Thry:

1.  Cripps was tagged and that's why he was particularly physical with Dom Sheed.

2.  No-one knows that Murphy has been an ordinary captain.  Some folk may think that, but others, including Juddy and Bolts, assert that he is a very good captain.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Next Captain

Reply #44
Cripps was tagged and that's why he was particularly physical with Dom Sheed

Fans seem to think that under constant tagging Cripps will be able to play like that week in and week out, it's a pure fantasy!

When he's having a bad day, what does he bring as leader?
The Force Awakens!