AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

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Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #75 – May 06, 2023, 10:58:48 am

Fwiw, I tend to agree with Thry, it's not as bad as it seems.

Ignoring the horrendous turnovers from clear unforced mistakes, we basically won heaps of contested footy and forced as many turnovers from the Lions as they forced on us, the clear difference was we gave it back through unforced errors, and they then used it efficiently.

Those unforced errors must have been at least a 5 or 6 goal differential.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #76 – May 06, 2023, 11:31:32 am

There was one stat i saw during the game that completely summed up the game.

Scores from turnovers
Brisbane 11 goals (they had 12 at the time).

Fix that, fix the game.

It was clear that our poor skill errors cost us the game.

We were up against a legit top 4 side who have done it over a number of years.
We have not even made finals for 10+ years. This result was to be expected somewhat.
We are coming.....but we are not there yet.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #77 – May 06, 2023, 11:43:47 am

Sad part is we started our rebuild the same time as them.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #78 – May 06, 2023, 11:46:18 am

Quote from: kruddler on May 06, 2023, 11:31:32 am

There was one stat i saw during the game that completely summed up the game.

Scores from turnovers
Brisbane 11 goals (they had 12 at the time).

Fix that, fix the game.

It was clear that our poor skill errors cost us the game.
Quote from: kruddler on May 06, 2023, 11:31:32 am
There was one stat i saw during the game that completely summed up the game.

Scores from turnovers
Brisbane 11 goals (they had 12 at the time).

Fix that, fix the game.

It was clear that our poor skill errors cost us the game.

We were up against a legit top 4 side who have done it over a number of years.
We have not even made finals for 10+ years. This result was to be expected somewhat.
We are coming.....but we are not there yet.

Time to face facts and take the blue glasses off.

Fixing unforced errors is not as easy as you make it sound. You don’t click your fingers and fix this. The list is filled with blokes that crack under pressure they did it late last year when they thought they may actually play finals and again this year everytime a team applied heat.

Unforced errors are what bottom and mid tier teams cant control especially under pressure and it costs them goals and games most week. We are no different hence why we are in that group of teams and not where we all hoped we would be.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #79 – May 06, 2023, 12:21:29 pm

Quote from: PaulP on May 06, 2023, 07:53:47 am

We lose games because we're not good enough to win. We've lost plenty of games that have nothing to with Carlton Respects.

Not saying that at all Paul. The players don't seem to lift for that cause is my point.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #80 – May 06, 2023, 12:26:22 pm

Quote from: Thryleon on May 06, 2023, 12:21:29 pm

Not saying that at all Paul. The players don't seem to lift for that cause is my point.

I would have thought they were more likely to lift because of Docherty's 150 than the respect game.
The causes are good for awareness raising but I doubt they have any impact on performance either way.
If anything they may be a tiny bit of a distraction in the week leading up to them but not enough to affect results.
The 'promotion' duties are shared around so it wouldn't weigh too heavy on a players mind.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #81 – May 06, 2023, 12:37:57 pm

Quote from: madbluboy on May 06, 2023, 11:43:47 am

Sad part is we started our rebuild the same time as them.

Not sure thats relevant either. We have had 4 rebuilds since 2003. 3 have failed and this one is a work in progress. We had at least 3 blokes on field yesterday with less than 20 games played between them (cincotta, hollands, kemp).

Add motlop, durdin and honey and you have probably 100 games of footy combined.

These guys are all still finding consistency in being an afl footballer.

Not sure what people were expecting. The Bolton rebuild was declared a failure when we sacked teague.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #82 – May 06, 2023, 12:59:52 pm

Quote from: Thryleon on May 06, 2023, 12:37:57 pm

Not sure thats relevant either. We have had 4 rebuilds since 2003. 3 have failed and this one is a work in progress. We had at least 3 blokes on field yesterday with less than 20 games played between them (cincotta, hollands, kemp).

Add motlop, durdin and honey and you have probably 100 games of footy combined.

These guys are all still finding consistency in being an afl footballer.

Not sure what people were expecting. The Bolton rebuild was declared a failure when we sacked teague.

They had Zorko and Rich out plus a few kids playing who are also light on for game time.
We can look for excuses but Brisbane own us and have seven out of the last eight games and a few junk time goals late doesn't hide the issues we have.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #83 – May 06, 2023, 01:27:17 pm

Quote from: Lods on May 06, 2023, 09:51:54 am

Matthew Kennedy 26% game time (just over 30minutes)

13 disposals, 2 tackles, 1 goal, 5 inside 50s, 4 score involvements, 306 metres gained.

He's just the kind of bloke we need in our line up. Yet.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #84 – May 06, 2023, 01:48:46 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton on May 05, 2023, 11:53:08 pm

The fans leaving before 3/4 time on masse is something I have never seen before at a Carlton game. That was one hell of a Nuffs Enuff statement if I have ever seen one. I wonder what the Board, Coaches and Players will think about that.

And the booing. Been a long time since i have heard any of that at a game against us from supporters.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #85 – May 06, 2023, 02:03:03 pm

Quote from: Thryleon on May 06, 2023, 12:37:57 pm

Not sure what people were expecting. The Bolton rebuild was declared a failure when we sacked teague.

No, this is the same rebuild.
The architects of it don't get off that easy.
If you can change players you can change coaches.
Worst rebuild ever.
We built a skeleton but didn't put any solid flesh on it.
8 years in the making and still no finals.
It's a lesson to other clubs.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #86 – May 06, 2023, 02:05:57 pm

Quote from: LP on May 06, 2023, 10:58:48 am

Fwiw, I tend to agree with Thry, it's not as bad as it seems.

Ignoring the horrendous turnovers from clear unforced mistakes, we basically won heaps of contested footy and forced as many turnovers from the Lions as they forced on us, the clear difference was we gave it back through unforced errors, and they then used it efficiently.

Those unforced errors must have been at least a 5 or 6 goal differential.

That's what was so frustrating. Those couple of kick ins that favoured their fwds and resulted in easy goals, were unconscionable. Add in Young playing musical statues 25m out, resulting in another easy goal. Walshy clearing defence and kicking to an unmanned player (with a red jumper), resulting in another easy goal (or 2). These fuelled backline panic, perpetuating more perceived pressure, poor decision-making and skill error. All above the shouders stuff. They are fundamental errors, which changed the game because of the flow on effects.

Is this because they didn't know how to respond (plan B), how to exit defence? That's certainly what it looked like to me.

Granted, there was not enough being done further up the ground and the pressure and efficiency i50 isn't quite there (fwd line function is another story - way off what's needed). We get enough of the ball but don't seem to know what to do with it when the heat's applied. So we fluff around with it until someone who really wants it rocks up.

Last night that was Lions players. No wonder Fagan was having a jolly time in the box. Lions are a complete package IMO and will be there in September. Nonetheless, we had our chances and blew them due to the same inadequacies most of us have been banging on about for ages. Fix those and find some form and we'll challenge any team.

So for all the hard work (and there was a fair bit), it's those lapses where we loose focus and intensity. We then realise we're in the hot seat and stuff up. The opposition then lick their lips, pounce, and get reward on the scoreboard.

In a phrase, and many have mentioned it repeatedly, it's mental toughness we lack. The hunger, drive, never give in, unity and commitment to the cause at all cost. That’s no easy fix but it's doable. We all know our list needs a couple more pieces.

Go Blues

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #87 – May 06, 2023, 02:10:32 pm

Quote from: LoveNavy on May 06, 2023, 02:05:57 pm

That's what was so frustrating. Those couple of kick ins that favoured their fwds and resulted in easy goals, were unconscionable. Add in Young playing musical statues 25m out, resulting in another easy goal.

Young was never going to catch Cameron but that is not the point, both he and Newman gave up the chase when done over, it's not a good look and coaches will lambaste them, but in fairness we probably stuffed that one up at the selection table. Newman might get some kudos for running himself into the ground, but even so you never give up.

A whack at the MC, we brought in Motlop and removed Fisher, which reduced our run against the club that is probably the strongest running team in this years competition, the team that ran all over the Dees. I don't care how much you like Motlop and what he can do, it comes at a price against hard running opposition.

Those kick-in turnovers hurt but they do not hurt as much as the ones that happened forward of centre, when we had open targets inside F50 and stuffed up a 30m pass.

I don't know how many times we kicked the ball behind our target to the advantage of the trailing defender, I gave up counting.

SoJ looked to be up and about, was getting the better of opponents, and we put it at his toes, then we try to fix that problem by letting McInerney beat up on him for a quarter or two!

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #88 – May 06, 2023, 02:52:30 pm

Quote from: shawny on May 06, 2023, 11:46:18 am

Time to face facts and take the blue glasses off.

Fixing unforced errors is not as easy as you make it sound. You don’t click your fingers and fix this. The list is filled with blokes that crack under pressure they did it late last year when they thought they may actually play finals and again this year everytime a team applied heat.

Unforced errors are what bottom and mid tier teams cant control especially under pressure and it costs them goals and games most week. We are no different hence why we are in that group of teams and not where we all hoped we would be.

Unforced errors and turnovers are different. Turnovers includes 'forced errors' that result in turnovers. Its based on pressure from the opposition as much as it is stupid errors.

But, its easier than you think.

We gave up 2 goals (at least) by refusing to take the ball over the goal line. We ended up getting tackled within meters of the goal line and turning it over. Next time, just take it over. 2 goals saved.

Pick players who can kick.....under pressure. Starting with playing Kennedy for a whole game, not as a sub.
Also, make sure we are manning up until we are clear of a turnover coming back to bite us.

Too many times we got the ball in defense and took off running, only to turn it over, get kicked back over our heads for an easy goal. Make sure we stay at home for longer and limit those 'turnover -> goal' opportunities.

I was at the game, behind the goals top level. I was trying to teach the little one how to play as a key forward/defender. Where to position, where to lead etc etc. So i spent time focusing on Charlie/Harry and on Weitering.
Weitering absolutely dominated Daniher as well as helping out teammates by peeling accross. He thwarted so many forward thrusts simply by being smart.

Alternatively, the Lions played an extra defender (sometimes 2) in our forwardline for large portions of the game and we were too stupid to do much about it. Charlie is excellent when its too his advantage, but goes completely MIA when its not, doesn't chase and is not great on the spoil. We were so used to Charlie/Harry dominating, based on last weeks effort, that we didn't put much thought into how we kicked inside 50 this time. Class of opposition showed us up.
Be a little bit smarter and use our +1s around the ball to find a target rather than hoping Charlie and Harry can dominate.

Re: AFL Rd 8 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #89 – May 06, 2023, 02:59:33 pm

We need to make sure we do ALL the basics very well before we start getting ahead of ourselves. I just get the strong impression that too many of players, especially senior ones, think we (including they as individuals) are better than we really are. Better on field leadership and guidance would help here imho.