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Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #30
Part of the difficulty is that the person with the addiction/issues needs to want to be cured more than to give up their current life.  There are many people who have a high likelihood of spending some time in accommodation courtesy of the Queen.  They know the outcome and really hate the idea of gaol.  They have many opportunities to enter rehab facilities, attend counselling etc. that aren't taken up - why?  They're not ready to give up the lifestyle that they lead, for some reason.  You can only give them so many opportunities...

How old are you Dodge?

These people are addicts? Don't you get that ffs?

Do you grasp what an addiction is?

f'n unbelievable.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #31
Not the first person to have their life ruined by ice....

I don't think his missus is helping either.  Stopping Ben from seeing his kids is probably driving him to take ice.  It is an enabler.

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #32
I don't think his missus is helping either.  Stopping Ben from seeing his kids is probably driving him to take ice.  It is an enabler.

His kids' safety is paramount and must come first. I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near him if I was his missus. He's on the public record as exhibiting threatening, possibly violent behaviour. Who knows what sort of company he keeps, how he behaves when he's on the gear etc. ?

He may well be an addict, but he needs to clean himself up and prove that he's on the mend before he gets to spend time with them - his behaviour has been problematic and unchanging for too long. He's had scrapes with the law for years - and still no improvement.

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #33
Look, there is a huge slippery slope we can open up here.

A serial killer probably has a few things wrong with his brain too. Doesn't mean i have any sympathy for him though.

It's not about sympathy but rather understanding and compassion, for all involved. You can have compassion for an offender but that doesn't mean tolerance. Believe me, I have no 'sympathy' for offenders. I'd probably go much harder than the courts on offenders, i.e. plenty of jail time - the community must be protected from iced-up people, they're a serious danger to everyone around them. I just wish our prisons & jails weren't revolving doors.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #34
The safety of the innocent, non-offending members of society is paramount and should be safeguarded as the first priority. How offenders are dealt with and possibly rehabilitated comes next on the list. If some people persistently offend and are a threat to the safety of others then they should be off the streets or very closely monitored, depending on the degree of danger they pose.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #35
I agree with rehabilitation as a preferred path, as long as it is not delivered at the sacrifice of the the safety of innocents!

Luke Batty should be at the forefront of considerations for anybody contemplating such a decision!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #36
Rehabilitation, whilst desirable,  must not compromise the safety of others in society.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #37
Hi Fly

Old enough to see second hand (luckily for me, not first hand) the effects several times.  I worded that badly, but I do get it.  It is so complicated.  It doesn't choose - white, brown, black, poor, rich, educated, uneducated, male, female, old, young, white collar, blue collar, no collar and so on.

The mental health and justice systems do not work well enough together as a whole to help - again as everyone says, it is extremely complicated.

Our experiences are all different - it seems Fly, that yours are a lot closer and more personal than mine - and I am sorry to hear that.

Jon Faine on 774 a while ago, had some extraordinary reports on addiction (particularly ice) and it canvassed the parents and support networks.  There is some incredible work going on, but it is so tough.


Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #38
All good Dodge....

I didn't need to go on as I did, so my apologies.

I'm seeing it first hand as we speak... sadly. And not for the first time... groan (loudly).
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #39
Sorry to hear that Fly - tough position to be in. Hope they come good. It can and does happen.

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #40
How old are you Dodge?

These people are addicts? Don't you get that ffs?

Do you grasp what an addiction is?

f'n unbelievable.

Addiction is a difficult thing.  I've been addicted to gambling now for 25 years.  It is a constant battle which often raises it's ugly head.  It's more than just not wanting to give up your addiction.  It is more about whether you mentally can give it up.  Not easy, just ask 2 million smokers.

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #41
I realise this sounds callous, but regardless of the plight of the addicted, if / when there is a risk to the general public, family or friends the welfare of the addicted should clearly be secondary concern when it revolves around rehabilitation and liberty versus public safety!

If locking up a dangerous or abusive individual stifles, stalls or prevents their rehabilitation, then I'm afraid so be it because it's already too late if they harm someone, you cannot take back the harm even though you can still rehabilitate!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #42
We need a revolution in mental health care.

There is still so much ignorance around addiction and mental health / illness in general. Sadly, it's often not until our own lives are hit, personally or a loved one, that we begin the journey of understanding just how fragile 'sanity' is.

So important to understand that addiction is an illness which carries with it powerful impulses and compulsions which begin to rule our lives. And there is considerable truth in what you say, DODGE, there comes a time when we sufferers have to say to ourselves, "I have a problem." And then follow it up with relentless treatment/support etc. Many of us, sadly, reach that point when plenty of damage has already been done... to our bodies and the relationships of those around us.

And then there are some of us never reach the point of being fair-dinkum about asking for and accepting help. These folks often become dangerous to themselves and others. Woman tend to internalise these issues and turn on themselves, men lash out. This is a generalisation and there are exceptions.

One of the heinous problems is that, there was a time when folks with serious mental health issues and a danger to themselves and others were sent to 'asylums'... the community was protected but so many of these asylums were just awful in terms of treatment - drug 'em and shut 'em up. In some places -- and I worked in one in the late 80s -- the people with the keys were every bit as dangerous. Then, rather than fix the institutions, we closed them and sent the seriously ill home to be looked after by ill-equipped families... WTF!!! I only know of one psych ward in Victoria that I would trust with ill family members, but it costs a fortune unless you have private health insurance with strong psychiatric.

Until health care ceases to be a political football but rather the no.1 item (equal to education) for strong support, families and communities will suffer... badly.

 
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #43
Top post Baggers. The sentiments you express don't buy votes unfortunately, so don't hold your breath.

Our leaders don't lead, they follow. So unless the population leans on them, nothing will be done - and that requires the population to be educated, invested and committed, and that is a very tall order.

Re: Ben Cousins Jailed

Reply #44
@Baggers
Spot on mate. The paucity of treatment centres and good residential care is no doubt a massive issue of neglect by our society, both of the ill people and of the general public. Allowing seriously mentally ill people to fend for themselves in what can be at times a very tough world is just asking for trouble.
Reality always wins in the end.