So I asked this last year and tried to create it as a thread different from 'predictions'. I am not so sure that worked out well.
So in general, be it gameplay, results etc.. What do you as a support of our football club expect from the club this year?
For me
It is no surprise that I was behind a full rebuild last year. I wanted it to far exceed what happened and part of that puzzle did finally happen this year, with a very good footballer in Bryce leaving and our age profile lowering. To me though this doesn't drastically alter what I expect of a football club. You don't sign up to follow teams with the agreement they can non be competitive for too long. If Carlton had gone real hard last year and traded all their elder players i would have give this year as their last pass. But now I EXPECT and DEMAND results from the football club. That is not so say they have failed me to date, but Carlton has to now be relevant in terms of winning football games. We can't have every win an 'upset' win.
I need Carlton to be finishing 10th or higher this year and to do so with about 8-10 wins. I also need our percentage to be higher than in previous years by quite a long way and I need to see at least a handful of games where we show that we can put 100 points on the scoreboard.
If we want to entice a big talent in next years Free Agency, then we need to be on the verge of something. We need to be able to sell 3 things. The club, the results & of course in Free Agency the money. We want Wines or Lynch or the likes.... Then we need to show they are not here as the savior, they are joining a genuinely exciting organisation.
Anything less than these results for me and we need to be questioning if we have the right people in charge, at all levels of the club (well perhaps excluding SOS who is killing it).
Oh and I EXPECT to see a functioning forward line this year
With some good experience from 2017 our guys will win more of those close games. As we already take the game up to almost everyone, I would not be surprised if we beat more top 8 contenders. With Gibbs gone, we WILL be underestimated.
We will be especially competitive if Kreuzer can have a year like he did in 2017. He isn't the best tap ruckman in the business, but his ability to compete and to cancel out the opposing ruckman allowed our mids to have a much better chance of getting the pill. If we pick our team carefully and have Lobbe and/or Phillips stand up, we should not often be beaten in that area.
I hope to see continued improvement from our young guys. Hopefully they can start getting some top quality scalps in 2018.
Our attack SHOULD be improved, but what I really want to see is more system in our forward moves and more from our small forwards.
We will be especially competitive if Kreuzer can have a year like he did in 2017. He isn't the best tap ruckman in the business, but his ability to compete and to cancel out the opposing ruckman allowed our mids to have a much better chance of getting the pill. If we pick our team carefully and have Lobbe and/or Phillips stand up, we should not often be beaten in that area.
It's a lot on the shoulders of one or two, the opponents will not miss this fact!
We have some mysteries on hand, what of Jones, McKay, Kerr and Weitering for 2018?
I expect we will get beaten consistently and often comprehensively in the midfield. Our defense will try hard and stand up, but will be overrun most weeks. Our forwards will be starved of opportunity, and will often be found on the half back line to get a kick. 4-6 wins
We were probably heading for an 8+ wins year but as we lost experienced &/or first 22 personnel through injury -- Cripps, E Curnow, ACOS, Rowe, Phillips, Byrne, White -- much flexibility was lost which put an increased burden on the shoulders of remaining experienced blokes (who stood up brilliantly) and kids/depth players. Jones was a revelation and without his contribution I believe we would have finished with at least 1 more loss.
So my W/L expectations fall into two categories:
1. With a reasonable or better run with injuries I believe we'll win 9-12. 2. If we have another year of injuries similar to this, then it'll be 6-8.
I expect the Board to invest in a team building / 360 degree feedback workshop to sort out the factions/cOckheads and finally become united. If you cannot get buy-in from any individual on the Board, re doing something about the disunity, then p1ss that individual off.
If Rooter Lethlean becomes our CEO then I expect him to maintain a low profile and strengthen the club's financial coffers, considerably... and not to go fishing off the company pier.
And finally, a much better %.
We will be younger again, we only have Murphy, Kruezer, Simpson, Jones, Docherty, Casboult & E Curnow as first 22 who are 23 and under, this is the last year of the 66 game rebuild that was originally stated, when Bolton started. Two more drafts to add to the already promising block of talent we have built.
Kennedy comes in and gives immediate assistance to Cripps, Lang offer another good ball user further up the ground but both are still very young. We will get natural improvement from our recent draftees and trades, who should have figured out their bodies by now, half the team will hit the track when we start training with the 1-4 years starting a week ahead.
This looks great for the future but 2018 I doubt will see much improvement, the only increase up the ladder will come from other teams who can't make the 8 tanking to improve their draft position in a stacked draft. Look for North to try and finish bottom as they have a Tassie acadamy player in Tarryn Thomas who has already played in the TFL premiership and is a gun, if they get pick 1 the Thomas should go around the 5 mark and they will get him for a song too.
7 wins
We are looking at groundhog day for 2018.
Competitive, will lose more than we win, be in the middle six at best and could sneak finals but will just lack that bit of class to make finals. 9-12 is where we'll finish unless we really develope well this off season.
We had a good run of injury this year and traditionally players that have struggled played well. We won't get that lucky again IMHO.
I'll wait till the pre season games and see the game plan/style we are playing before working out where we will finish...unless we stop putting 7 men down back
and play a proper forward line we will continue to struggle to kick goals and the wins wont happen..
Led 7 times in last qtrs and lost this years. Means we don't nees alot of improvement to finishing 8th. I'll go 8-11th.
I thought we'd go about 9-12 last year.
I was told it was too soon but we'd make significant progress in 2018.
So I'm expecting significant progress. ;)
9-12 on the ladder
9+ wins
95+ percentage
Finish 10-11-12.
9 wins.
Higher scores. 2 or 3 100+ pointers would be nice.
A better functioning attack. Levi improved last season. If he can do that again in 2018 it will be a great help.
Some natural from Jimprovement Jack, Charlie, Pickett, Sammo etc. can be expected too.
The departure of Gibbs will be a challenge for us early on but I think BB can rally the troops and get the younger guys to step up. Hoping to see our overall skills, tackling and ball movement improve to get us 3 or 4 more wins and our players growing in confidence.
I'll wait till the pre season games and see the game plan/style we are playing before working out where we will finish...unless we stop putting 7 men down back
and play a proper forward line we will continue to struggle to kick goals and the wins wont happen..
Spot on. Unless we find a way to hurt other teams on the scoreboard when we have the ascendancy then we will continue to struggle to win.
We haven’t done anything yet personnel wise to improve our scoring - we appear to be banking on natural improvement, which is what 17 other teams are also doing.
Spot on. Unless we find a way to hurt other teams on the scoreboard when we have the ascendancy then we will continue to struggle to win.
We haven’t done anything yet personnel wise to improve our scoring - we appear to be banking on natural improvement, which is what 17 other teams are also doing.
There is more room for natural improvement with our list than just about any other team, though.
Curnow, SPS, Marchbank, Fisher, Williamson, Pickett, Cuningham have all now played a clutch of games and the upside there is enormous. And I am genuinely hopeful this group will improve our scoring options significantly.
Throw in some probable growth in Kennedy and Lang, and #3 in the draft and there is serious optimism.
If McKay and/or Kerr can click as well, and Levi keeps kicking straight, we will trouble plenty of sides. I know GIbbs is a loss, but with that comes the opportunity for others to step up.
It may not show on the W-L ratio, but if we can be in as many games as we were last year, this time we will win more.
A lot of ifs, but 10 wins is not out of the question.
The expectations on McKay and Kerr are interesting. McKay played 1 game last year and had very little impact. I'm really hoping he can come on as a player this year as that would make a huge difference for us, but I haven't seen anything yet that makes me think that will happen. I've only seen a little of Kerr (much less that some others on here), but what I've seen doesn't make me think he'll have significant impact at AFL level in 2018. If one or both of these guys can becomea regular dangerous forward that would help enormously (assuming we can get the ball in there quickly and often enough), but I think we'll be relying on Casboult, C Curnow and Wright to kick the majority of our goals this year
There is more room for natural improvement with our list than just about any other team, though.
Curnow, SPS, Marchbank, Fisher, Williamson, Pickett, Cuningham have all now played a clutch of games and the upside there is enormous. And I am genuinely hopeful this group will improve our scoring options significantly.
Throw in some probable growth in Kennedy and Lang, and #3 in the draft and there is serious optimism.
If McKay and/or Kerr can click as well, and Levi keeps kicking straight, we will trouble plenty of sides. I know GIbbs is a loss, but with that comes the opportunity for others to step up.
It may not show on the W-L ratio, but if we can be in as many games as we were last year, this time we will win more.
A lot of ifs, but 10 wins is not out of the question.
As Richmond showed you improve when you fix the holes on your list and settle on a game style..........three important players in and a rebuilt contrarian forward line made the difference....youth doesnt guarantee improvement. Boltons game plan's and in game tactics are still unproven and he is also learning as a novice coach.... I think he needs to show improvement as well as the players.
I expect a huge year from Weitering.
His third in the system and he is a very talented player.
Hopefully he gets stronger and starts to control our half back line with intercept marks he was known for in his junior years.
Williamson is also important as he, like weitering have a powerful kick which can open up games and help scoring.
Pickett is also one I hope comes on in leaps.
He is very talented and hard at it. If/when he finds his feet and gets his fitness right he will be very handy.
McKays development is crucial.
He needs to play 15-20 games and hopefully he kicks 25-40 goals.
He will be a very difficult match up if he is fit and firing.
You bet both are raw. But Harry definitely showed he can cut it at the highest level.....
And from what others have said, Kerr struggled with carrying an injury most of the year?
Williamson is an interesting one. Really liked what i saw from him this year, and i agree his kicking is fantastic. But our backline is the only area where we have depth, and we can't play them all. Weitering, Plowman, Marchbank, Jones, Docherty and Simpson would appear to be certain starters, and Rowe or A Silvagni will play some games depending on matchups. Where does Williamson fit?
I forgot Byrne and Macreaadie, I'd like to see more of them too
I think Williamson played every game he was available fitness wise last year. He played back pocket/flank.
I think he may have been one of the youngest players in the competition.
He will be there if available.
I agree and he should be there, be interesting to see who misses out though
Simpson could play higher, what we used to call "the wing" when football used to have positions
As we all know our defence is overloaded yet our forward line is bare.
Really hope Weitering can learn to be a forward and maybe even something left field like Willo playing up th field.
Not saying they should, simply saying worth experimenting maybe in pre season games.
Looking forward to watching SPS and crippa after a full and hopefully injury free pre season.
Maybe Jones can go forward with Rowe and ACoS back?
Perhaps with his new found confidence he can dominate as a forward. That said, his form down back probably shouldn't be meddled with!
If our midfield starts to click, the forwards will start to look a lot better - literally overnight.
Maybe Jones can go forward with Rowe and ACoS back?
Perhaps with his new found confidence he can dominate as a forward. That said, his form down back probably shouldn't be meddled with!
If our midfield starts to click, the forwards will start to look a lot better - literally overnight.
Great believer in that FB. Jones is a more likely long term defender prospect for us than Rowe or ACoS, although these two will be useful over the next year or two. I'd like to see Jones continue to develop in his current role and moving him forward may well upset that. If we want someone to fill in as a forward I would rather go with Rowe although that prospect doesn't really excite me.
i consider, all other things being equal ie injuries, Harry gets played Rd 1 on and is told he has the role for half the year minimum, no questions asked....
Heck, the kid will probably be 210cm by the start of next season!
i consider, all other things being equal ie injuries, Harry gets played Rd 1 on and is told he has the role for half the year minimum, no questions asked....
Heck, the kid will probably be 210cm by the start of next season!
His height is irrelevant now.
He is tall enough if his attitude and determination are there.
Robbie Warnock was about 210cm wasn't he?
You bet both are raw. But Harry definitely showed he can cut it at the highest level.....
There is a difference between 'cutting it' at the highest level and thriving at the highest level.
Casboult 'cuts it' but he isn't going to dominate games on a consistent basis....or at all.
We don't wont McKay to 'cut it', we want him to dominate. WAY too soon for that to occur.
Robbie Warnock was about 210cm wasn't he?
206?
Great believer in that FB. Jones is a more likely long term defender prospect for us than Rowe or ACoS, although these two will be useful over the next year or two. I'd like to see Jones continue to develop in his current role and moving him forward may well upset that. If we want someone to fill in as a forward I would rather go with Rowe although that prospect doesn't really excite me.
Agree there cookie. I would defintely be not moving Jones anywhere. Rowe and ACOS will be backup depth however there is a part of me that really wants ACOS in that side though as we need that mongrel.
Rowe will end up filling in for injuries or whatever back and forward, but I too would be really worried if he is in the forward for any other reason. As I am hoping McKay and Kerr, especially McKay will be a permanent fixture by then.
In general I am really optimistic, the natural progression of SPS, Curnow, Weitering, Fisher, Cunningham, Pickett, Silvagni and the like coupled with the 2 kids from the draft and the addition of Kennedy and Lang is exciting. Hopefully this will also mean Murph as a 70/30 forward/mid.
There is a difference between 'cutting it' at the highest level and thriving at the highest level.
Casboult 'cuts it' but he isn't going to dominate games on a consistent basis....or at all.
We don't wont McKay to 'cut it', we want him to dominate. WAY too soon for that to occur.
one has to crawl before one walks.....no reason to think he can't kick 30 odd goals in his first 'full' season....
But Harry definitely showed he can cut it at the highest level.....
Which of his 2 games gave that definitive impression???
Agree there cookie. I would defintely be not moving Jones anywhere. Rowe and ACOS will be backup depth however there is a part of me that really wants ACOS in that side though as we need that mongrel.
Rowe will end up filling in for injuries or whatever back and forward, but I too would be really worried if he is in the forward for any other reason. As I am hoping McKay and Kerr, especially McKay will be a permanent fixture by then.
In general I am really optimistic, the natural progression of SPS, Curnow, Weitering, Fisher, Cunningham, Pickett, Silvagni and the like coupled with the 2 kids from the draft and the addition of Kennedy and Lang is exciting. Hopefully this will also mean Murph as a 70/30 forward/mid.
Charlie has already shown that he will be an unstoppable force....opposition teams will become so focused on stopping him, the heat will lessen on others!
one has to crawl before one walks.....no reason to think he can't kick 30 odd goals in his first 'full' season....
Pretty sure you said the same thing about him last year.
Sure, its possible, but like last year, unlikely.
Pretty sure you said the same thing about him last year.
Sure, its possible, but like last year, unlikely.
Pretty hard to make an impact if you're not playing.
Some players just need to be thrown into it.....given our forward line, Bolton was remiss in not playing him sooner this year.
Pretty hard to make an impact if you're not playing.
Some players just need to be thrown into it.....given our forward line, Bolton was remiss in not playing him sooner this year.
But he wont play players until they are ready. Given his inability to chase, or unwillingness, i think the right call was made re selection.
Point is, dont expect too much too soon.
I expect more improvement in 2018 and I think that it will come in the form of not giving up last quarter leads. Our ability to lock games down should improve and Bolton will have to find a way to create more scoreboard pressure.
I expect SOS to nail the draft and land a midfielder that will have an impact from round 1.
stronger fitter side
Which of his 2 games gave that definitive impression???
The one against Geelong.
Was starved of the footy and Casboult got a free kick for one of McKay's marks inside fifty.
Still managed two goals.
If he averages 1.5 goals a game and plays 20 games he could kick 30..
I'll settle for 25 first up.
The one against Geelong.
Was starved of the footy and Casboult got a free kick for one of McKay's marks inside fifty.
Still managed two goals.
If he averages 1.5 goals a game and plays 20 games he could kick 30..
I'll settle for 25 first up.
I am not normally one to compare players however, Joe Daniher managed 5 games in his first year and kicked 3 goals. Since then he as managed:
21ga 28go
22ga 34go
22ga 43go
23ga 65go
A young fellas career can turn fairly quickly with the right attitude, hard work in the PS and of course a bit of luck. If H has a good preseason and stays injury free, anything is possible, he has the talent.
Great analysis
Thanks
I am not normally one to compare players however, Joe Daniher managed 5 games in his first year and kicked 3 goals. Since then he as managed:
21ga 28go
22ga 34go
22ga 43go
23ga 65go
A young fellas career can turn fairly quickly with the right attitude, hard work in the PS and of course a bit of luck. If H has a good preseason and stays injury free, anything is possible, he has the talent.
Agree but rumour has it Daniher was at the club whilst dank was.
If you could find another example though I'm all ears.
Harry only turns 20 in December!
An exciting time ahead no doubt , but there are as many pot holes as well
With a full preseason ahead of many of our recent additions and them having played some games last year they will train with a change of attitude. They will now know what to expect instead of the unknown factor. Those with the right mental attitude will think, "wow I can do this , I had some wins" , those softer on the mental side will need that direction from our coaching staff, so I hope thats recognised quickly by our off field guys. At this level the talent alone factor separates the heard. This will go a long way towards the direction of our season & the development going forward.
As an interesting comparison point, I wonder how many posters on the Richmond websites were predicting premierships after the trade period last year?
I'm sure most of their comments would have been "How can we kick a score - we've got Riewoldt and that's about it...."
Injury luck, a manageable draw and belief. They can be the ingredients for almost anything.
The starting 6 in Richmond's GF team had the following games experience : 224, 51, 42, 36, 22 and 4.
Tigers got very, very lucky....zip injuries and in the GF the Crows played like a bunch of stoned crabs....
Tigers got very, very lucky....zip injuries and in the GF the Crows played like a bunch of stoned crabs....
Indeed. having a list both complete, fit and in form was perfect for Richmond. None of the other contenders had their lists in as good a condition.
Western Bulldogs did it harder. Their list was in form, but it had a significant number of injuries, even to significant performers. But a number of players really lifted for the finals to career best form. Some of those players have not yet been able to reproduce that form.
Same as last year, improvement, and the more the better!
I think we improved slightly this year, not as much as I had hoped, but at least I still saw us moving in the right direction.
I feel reasonably confident that we have the right people in the right places to keep us headed in the right direction, which means I can sit back and enjoy the ride!
Tigers and Dogs built depth...they had like for like coming into and out of the team....our twos were rubbish and couldnt compete most weeks.
Tigers and Dogs built depth...they had like for like coming into and out of the team....our twos were rubbish and couldnt compete most weeks.
We were fine when Jones and ACOS (and Graham) were playing in the 2s week in, week out.
Injuries....
According to Buckenara, absolutely nothing from Norp!
No A-graders: Roos eye decade of Doom! (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/north-melbourne/gary-buckenara-analyses-north-melbournes-list-after-the-2017-season/news-story/cec5c607290ca4136c4ceab5e0e661e8)
As an interesting comparison point, I wonder how many posters on the Richmond websites were predicting premierships after the trade period last year?
I'm sure most of their comments would have been "How can we kick a score - we've got Riewoldt and that's about it...."
Injury luck, a manageable draw and belief. They can be the ingredients for almost anything.
The starting 6 in Richmond's GF team had the following games experience : 224, 51, 42, 36, 22 and 4.
Firstly, Riewoldt is a coleman medalist, Casboult far from it.
Secondly, The tigers got lucky. Had a blessed run with injuries and that allowed them to play a balanced settled side and pick whoever they wanted, whenever they wanted.
Finally, we had the same luck with injuries that the tigers did for the first half of the year, but we, obviously, didn't have the same impact on the scoreboard and win column.
We'd be at longer odds than the dogs and the tigers combined.
Indeed. having a list both complete, fit and in form was perfect for Richmond. None of the other contenders had their lists in as good a condition.
Western Bulldogs did it harder. Their list was in form, but it had a significant number of injuries, even to significant performers. But a number of players really lifted for the finals to career best form. Some of those players have not yet been able to reproduce that form.
Richmond's opponents were shell shocked when they skipped away a bit in the 3/4. I really think they thought it was a case of just showing up
They lacked a leader when it mattered, and all the tigers lifted when they tasted blood. All of them.
Fking piss weak by the crows
Tigers weren't lucky, they finished half a game behind the Crows and Geelong but always had an edge about them that the top 2 sides didn't have.
The Crows were complacent unfortunately and well off even decent form in the GF. I think the Lever fallout had a clear effect too.
Let's not forget the Crows beat the Tigers by 76 points in Rd 6.
What Carlton should take from the Tigers' win is that a good team, doing all the 1%ers well, will invariably prevail.
The Crows were complacent unfortunately and well off even decent form in the GF. I think the Lever fallout had a clear effect too.
Let's not forget the Crows beat the Tigers by 76 points in Rd 6.
What Carlton should take from the Tigers' win is that a good team, doing all the 1%ers well, will invariably prevail.
What happens in rd 6 is irrelevant. Do you remember rd 8 and 9 from 1995?
The Crows and Geelong really were no better than last year, just a few sides dropped off. The Tigers were getting better and better as the year went on and were playing the type of football that wins premierships.
I expect the club to:
- show and practise good governance off field
- improve its financial position
- improve its on field prospects through being able to score more. Improvement last year came through how many games we were in front in the last quarter. Next year, we will need to win a few more of those
As an aside, interesting that Bulldogs hired the St Kilda guy that a few mentioned as CEO. Also interesting that all is quiet on our recruitment of a CEO. While Lethlean may be a foregone conclusion at least they are holding off announcing it to give the impression of time going into the recruitment process...
I expect to do better as we can't really do any worse than the last few years.
What happens in rd 6 is irrelevant. Do you remember rd 8 and 9 from 1995?
I do
I was at the Sydney game
It was over at half time :(
Tigers weren't lucky, they finished half a game behind the Crows and Geelong but always had an edge about them that the top 2 sides didn't have.
I somewhat agree and disagree.
I think that all the teams that were vying for the flag copped some fairly serious injuries except the Tigers. Danger and Selwood were both on one leg come the end of the season and against the good teams it showed. Brodie Smith, turned out to be a big loss for the Crows whilst Eddie Betts and Rory Sloane both had appendicitis, and lets say no more about Jeremy Cameron going down for GWS.
Would it have been enough to win though is a question that is difficult to answer.
By contrast, the Tigers went in fit and firing and had no issues aside from an errant poke in the eye to Riewoldt at training a few weeks out from finals.
As always every team that triumphs requires a little bit of luck. I think the Tigers were no luckier than any other premiership side in history but on grand final day when the game was in the balance that soft as butter free kick they got to come back into parity in the first quarter was a bit of a game changer. The moons alligned and they won a flag. Same happened for the Bulldogs a year earlier. Sometimes these things happen. Sometimes they don't.
We can't complain overly. We went into a half time of a grand final 40 points down and won partly because of a tweak in game style, but partly to do with hubris from the other side. By the time they responded we had pinched the win.
Thats football.
I thought that 2018 showed, in general, a poor general standard of footy and the top teams all had major flaws. There was no complete, stand out side. By this quirk the tigers were able to "pinch" a flag. Seriously, would they have gotten with 10 goals of the Hawks or the Cats in their premiership years?
What happens in rd 6 is irrelevant. Do you remember rd 8 and 9 from 1995?
The Crows and Geelong really were no better than last year, just a few sides dropped off. The Tigers were getting better and better as the year went on and were playing the type of football that wins premierships.
Sadly I went to rd 8 that year in Sydney as I lived there at the time.
I thought that 2018 showed, in general, a poor general standard of footy and the top teams all had major flaws. There was no complete, stand out side. By this quirk the tigers were able to "pinch" a flag. Seriously, would they have gotten with 10 goals of the Hawks or the Cats in their premiership years?
Agree the talent pool has been stretched across 18 teams now and the talent doesn't quite cut it.
Hence why all our draftee's got games last season. No real depth.
Less talented players will get drafted and play games they would not have in the past.
Agree the talent pool has been stretched across 18 teams now and the talent doesn't quite cut it.
Hence why all our draftee's got games last season. No real depth.
Less talented players will get drafted and play games they would not have in the past.
I don't buy the argument about limited talent pool. The expansion of the AFL is well below Australian population growth, that population is more diverse and footballers are becoming more diverse, clubs routinely recruit from overseas, and participation rates are up; over 1.4M in 2016. If anything, the talent pool is not being used to capacity.
Pathways to AFL may be limited but, once again, innovative clubs are sourcing players from outside of the sausage machine; other sports, state competitions, etc.
What happens in rd 6 is irrelevant. Do you remember rd 8 and 9 from 1995?
Yeah, i think some carlton players made a lot of money those weeks.
Yeah, i think some carlton players made a lot of money those weeks.
:)
I think it might have had more to do with the fact that Kernahan and Williams didn't play either game ;)
:)
I think it might have had more to do with the fact that Kernahan and Williams didn't play either game ;)
I can't recall where i heard/read it, but it was very strongly suggested we tanked those games and our boys were betting on the opposition who both had very long odds at the time.
I can't recall where i heard/read it, but it was very strongly suggested we tanked those games and our boys were betting on the opposition who both had very long odds at the time.
I prefer my excuse :D
We were probably big favourites but...
If we were going to tank a game it wouldn't be wise to do it two weeks in a row and at a time when you were missing your two best players.
I remember Lockett had a bit of a day out in the Sydney game.
I prefer my excuse :D
We were probably big favourites but...
If we were going to tank a game it wouldn't be wise to do it two weeks in a row and at a time when you were missing your two best players.
I remember Lockett had a bit of a day out in the Sydney game.
Why not? Seems the perfect time to do it.
Odds would've been too short to do it a 3rd week... ;)
There was certainly talk about it ...from opposition supporters.
Stuff up or conspiracy theory.., go for the stuff up!
I'd prefer to think we didn't come ready to play...until I hear it from a Carlton player of the time.
There was certainly talk about it ...from opposition supporters.
For some reason i reckon i read it in a book.....by a carlton player....or maybe Big Jack.
For some reason i reckon i read it in a book.....by a carlton player....or maybe Big Jack.
See if you can track it down...but I wouldn't pay much attention to Elliott.
Engineering a result like that would take a whole heap of involvement across the team.
(It's not like they were short a quid :D)
See if you can track it down...but I wouldn't pay much attention to Elliott.
Engineering a result like that would take a whole heap of involvement across the team.
Not as much as you think.
A big night out on the town with a free feed and some drink cards could do the trick when paired with the absence of sticks and diesel.
If that's the case....
We'd want to hope it's not true or never proven.
There's a precedent for stripping awards when dodgy stuff goes down.
Yeah, i think some carlton players made a lot of money those weeks.
At the time, I worked for a bloke who was mates with a player. Lets just say a few them bought a fair bit of expensive hi fi gear the following week.
I expect we'll win 6 or 8 games . Losing Gibbs will hurt short term.
Hopefully we're able to score a little more our low potency in front of goals is a real concern.
We'll play some exciting footy no doubt, there's plenty of young talent to drool over as we develop.
The 2018 will help us plenty, so much talent available the top 10 are very good and next 10 good too.
Go Baggers
I expect we'll win 6 or 8 games . Losing Gibbs will hurt short term.
Hopefully we're able to score a little more our low potency in front of goals is a real concern.
We'll play some exciting footy no doubt, there's plenty of young talent to drool over as we develop.
The 2018 will help us plenty, so much talent available the top 10 are very good and next 10 good too.
Go Baggers
Our potency presently is not about our forwards. It is about four things:
1. our (coach directed) defensive mindset
2. our (relatively) weak midfield
3. the quality of delivery into inside 50
4. the absolute number of inside 50s.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats
are there any stats anywhere that look at the quality of ball movement into F50?
Our potency presently is not about our forwards. It is about four things:
1. our (coach directed) defensive mindset
2. our (relatively) weak midfield
3. the quality of delivery into inside 50
4. the absolute number of inside 50s.
http://www.afl.com.au/stats
are there any stats anywhere that look at the quality of ball movement into F50?
What is a correlation and what is a cause?
Do we get less marks inside F50 because we enter F50 less or with less depth and quality, or do we enter F50 less because we have no effective forwards?
I think a major problem is Casboult's heat map, even when he's playing well far too many of his contested marks come well outside F50 between the HFF and the HBF. This leaves him outside range, and slowing play. So is this because of Casboult, the coaches or because of the in play decisions further up the field?
During the year the media punished Carlton for it's slow uncontested possession game style defensive side of centre, that game style implies high possession counts but we ranked last for disposals in 2017, and 4th last for disposal efficiency. If we have a high D50 possession count with uncontested ball, then we must have a very low midfield or F50 possession count with a lot of disputed possessions! That tells us something about or game forward of centre.
A slow defensive build up won't help forwards, but again is the slow build up the cause or the effect of poor forward structures and patterns.
I'm not dwelling too much on our game style of last year as it was probably only a stage in our evolution. I'm more interested in seeing how we line up and play in 2018. I'm certain it will be very different and more attacking, especially as the year unfolds.
I'm not dwelling too much on our game style of last year as it was probably only a stage in our evolution. I'm more interested in seeing how we line up and play in 2018. I'm certain it will be very different and more attacking, especially as the year unfolds.
I suppose we can expect some natural improvement in this regard, as confidence
and skills grow players should become more adventurous.
It's the bit in bold that has let us down in the past, our skills just haven't improved much over the years which is a worry.
I suppose we can expect some natural improvement in this regard, as confidence and skills grow players should become more adventurous.
It's the bit in bold that has let us down in the past, our skills just haven't improved much over the years which is a worry.
It would appear that we have put more focus on development of late. We'll just have to wait and see whether that starts to bear fruit next year.
The crazy thing about our stats is that we are the highest kicking team on average in the comp, but we are ranked dead last on handballs - so are last in total disposals per game.
There is cause and effect in everything in football. We play safety first football and kick a lot, which means we get very little overlap run and handball. This gives defenses and midfielders plenty of time to get back and setup against us, which makes the forwards job difficult. But we also don't have any good forwards who can find space in this environment.
We play to minimise the score and opposition can kick, and this makes the midfields job extremely hard as we are often one man down at the stoppage, as the opposition effectively gets an extra midfielder.
Until we are prepared to play 1:1 defence and then be more daring with hands through the midfield with guys like SPS, Murph, and Cunningham we are going to continue to struggle to kick a score and put sides away. We are good in an arm wrestle game, but struggle with Plan B.
And we also need to remember that their are 17 other teams who expecting natural growth and development from their under 23 brigade, so thinking this is going to be a game changer in 2018 is a big stretch. Of course we need it, but we also need big years from the players traded in to make a difference.
Game plan will evovle over time. That's how it is with some rebuilds. Watch the skills suddenly improve with a more attacking game plan. Skills always look better ehen players have space to run onto the ball.
What do I expect in 2018.
Significant improvement from all and sundry.
The young brigade - Kennedy (20), Lang (21), Marchy (20), Plow (23), Cuners (20), Fish (19), SPS (19), Wilson (Pickett) (21), Weiters (19), Harry Mc, Charlie C (20) and #3 and #10. Oops, I forgot Jack S (19), Willo (19) and possibly Macreadie (19) (whom I rate).
Most will be in the 50-70 game bracket come the end of next season.
These 15-16 young blokes control the immediate destiny and the future of this Club.
There is a lot of real, top end quality there - more than most Clubs easily (on paper at least). Guys who haven't been tainted by the years of mediocrity. And ones who will not accept mediocrity.
The new draftees (from the upcoming ND on 24 November) might have little impact but I remain hopeful #3 will be a big bodied type (Rayner ideally O0) who is ready to play.
Ditto #10 - hopefully (to my mind) Tim Kelly.
How fast they all 'develop' - individually and collectively - will determine how many games we win.
Personally, I think we'll be saying Bryce who by mid year.
We've still got a very solid core of older types - Ed Curnow, Murph, Special K, Rowe, ACOS, Simmo, Levi, Daisy, Jonesy, Jed Lamb, Wright, Kerridge.
Clearly, doing the maths, a few senior types will struggle for regular games as the youngsters press. But all are capable of playing a role, if required.
Then there's the Doc and Crippa - still young and both AA level players. And Byrne.
I'm a glass half full type - 11-12 wins in 2018. :o :o
They say you need 6 or more A graders to be at the 'top' or thereabouts - my top 6 come 2019?
C. Curnow, Weiters, Cripps, Doc, SPS and Jones.
(apologies to Special K, Smurf, Marchbank and Matt Kennedy)
2019 will be the 'bang' year imo - especially if Mr Wines joins the Blues' train! ;)
The crazy thing about our stats is that we are the highest kicking team on average in the comp, but we are ranked dead last on handballs - so are last in total disposals per game.
There is cause and effect in everything in football. We play safety first football and kick a lot, which means we get very little overlap run and handball. This gives defenses and midfielders plenty of time to get back and setup against us, which makes the forwards job difficult. But we also don't have any good forwards who can find space in this environment.
We play to minimise the score and opposition can kick, and this makes the midfields job extremely hard as we are often one man down at the stoppage, as the opposition effectively gets an extra midfielder.
Until we are prepared to play 1:1 defence and then be more daring with hands through the midfield with guys like SPS, Murph, and Cunningham we are going to continue to struggle to kick a score and put sides away. We are good in an arm wrestle game, but struggle with Plan B.
And we also need to remember that their are 17 other teams who expecting natural growth and development from their under 23 brigade, so thinking this is going to be a game changer in 2018 is a big stretch. Of course we need it, but we also need big years from the players traded in to make a difference.
Midfield has been overrated IMO...poor in clearances and Inside 50's......plus we man opposing mids poorly, Curnow excepted. Too many opposing mids have too much of the ball, players like Zorko burn us every year and nothing changes...
What do I expect in 2018.
Significant improvement from all and sundry.
The young brigade - Kennedy (20), Lang (21), Marchy (20), Plow (23), Cuners (20), Fish (19), SPS (19), Wilson (Pickett) (21), Weiters (19), Harry Mc, Charlie C (20) and #3 and #10. Oops, I forgot Jack S (19), Willo (19) and possibly Macreadie (19) (whom I rate).
Most will be in the 50-70 game bracket come the end of next season.
See, i think i've found your problem, you are a year ahead of everyone else.
If all the players play 22 games next year (unlikely, but possible) then only 4 from the 16 will be in that 50-70 bracket.
If all players play every game in the next 2 years, THEN 13/16 will be in that bracket.
You can EXPECT them to do most of the heavy lifting in 2018, but they will not be ready to do that until 2019....by your own criteria.
Simply, you expect too much too soon.
This is true. Next year will be another development year, we'll see some exciting signs and will snatch a few games, but 2019 is when we will start our charge up the ladder
One thing I am is a maths geek...you were being cute with the numbers. And at no stage did I say these young blokes would do the majority of the heavy lifting in 2018.
Now 2018 2019
Kennedy 19 41 63
Lang 44 66 88
Marchy 23 45 67
Plowman 60 82 104
SoJ 28 50 72
SPS 20 42 64
Fisher 15 37 59
Willo 15 37 59
Macreadie 8 30 52
Curnow 27 49 71
Weitering 42 64 86
Cuners 11 33 55
Pickett 10 32 54
One thing I am is a maths geek...you were being cute with the numbers. And at no stage did I say these young blokes would do the majority of the heavy lifting in 2018.
Now 2018 2019
Kennedy 19 41 63
Lang 44 66 88
Marchy 23 45 67
Plowman 60 82 104
SoJ 28 50 72
SPS 20 42 64
Fisher 15 37 59
Willo 15 37 59
Macreadie 8 30 52
Curnow 27 49 71
Weitering 42 64 86
Cuners 11 33 55
Pickett 10 32 54
Being cute with the numbers?
Please tell me where i was being cute with the numbers.
I also made a table...
Plowman (60) (82)
Lang (44) (66)
Weitering (42) (64)
Jack (28) (50)
Curnowfides (27) (49)
Marchbank (23) (45)
Kennedy (19) (41)
SPS (20) (42)
Fisher (17) (39)
Williamson (15) (37)
Cunnington (11) (33)
Pickett (10) (32)
Macreadie (8) (30)
Harry (2) (24)
#3 (0) (22)
#10 (0) (22)
I made it easier for you to see that there was nothing 'cute' about the numbers, they are the numbers.
I stand by my comments.
You didn't say they would be doing the heavy lifting, but you did say they hold the key to our immediate future. If they are to get anywhere near the amount of games you sugggest they do, then they need to be playing each week. If they are playing each week then there is only spots for 6 other players in the 22. So, considering the make up 72% of the team, i'd say they are doing the heavy lifting.
Now, IF they are not going to play all 22 games, or anywhere near it, then that backs up my original argument further....you are ahead of yourself in terms of where they are in terms of expected output of 50-70 game players.
So, for a maths geek, you seem to be missing something pretty obvious as the numbers and your take on them, don't stack up for 2018. 2019, perhaps.
What I expect next year is that we win a few more games than last year. I think losing Gibbs will cost us more as the year goes on. I am hoping we are more attacking and I hope we do better next year against the lower sides than we did this year, we only one of five contest.
You didn't say they would be doing the heavy lifting, but you did say they hold the key to our immediate future.
Don't be a dill, it's not about the exact number of games each has played. 49 is 50 in my book...
And of course these blokes will determine our immediate future - we know what Murphy, Special K, even the Bolt will bring.
But if Charlie has a Kouta like break out year, or Kennedy or SPS (or both) have bolters, ditto Pickett, or Harry Mc become a regular and kicks 25 for the year (ditto Lang) then we will win a lot more games.
If they don't, we won't. Capiche?
I watched a replay of the Hawthorn game last night. Pickett could be a real weapon. His 3rd & 4th quarters were something to behold for a bloke with 10 games under his belt. He could be absolutely anything (maybe a flash in the pan, but I'm hoping he could be the most dangerous player on our list). He can tackle, mark, sell candy in heavy traffic, is lightning quick, and is a pretty good kick. He has the tools, I just hope he has the attitude and guidance to make the most of it.
I expect the club to give SOS a knighthood for getting him so cheap. Just a reminder the Tuohy deal got us both Marchbank and Pickett.
I watched a replay of the Hawthorn game last night. Pickett could be a real weapon. His 3rd & 4th quarters were something to behold for a bloke with 10 games under his belt. He could be absolutely anything (maybe a flash in the pan, but I'm hoping he could be the most dangerous player on our list). He can tackle, mark, sell candy in heavy traffic, is lightning quick, and is a pretty good kick. He has the tools, I just hope he has the attitude and guidance to make the most of it.
I expect the club to give SOS a knighthood for getting him so cheap. Just a reminder the Tuohy deal got us both Marchbank and Pickett.
He was taken at 4 in his draft for a reason. My understanding is he just lost his way at GWS amongst all that talent etc and lost confidence etc, then a few injuries....
His upside is bigger than most. Hope he gets time in the midfield too.
He was taken at 4 in his draft for a reason. My understanding is he just lost his way at GWS amongst all that talent etc and lost confidence etc, then a few injuries....
His upside is bigger than most. Hope he gets time in the midfield too.
Pickett has shown he can take the next step and be a real weapon...tackling is great, and can kick more goals if he can steady up a bit more.
2018 has to be his year though where he cements a spot or he will be in that bracket of players that will be fighting for their futures.....
Over recently passed times we have squandered a lot of talent and I won't depress myself again by going through the list. I truly now believe that we have moved on and the focus we are showing on development coupled with BB's approach and philosophies will ensure that players with talent won't be neglected. With this in mind, Pickett has an excellent prospect of becoming a top performer imo - he'll be receiving very personalised attention now.
Pickett has shown he can take the next step and be a real weapon...tackling is great, and can kick more goals if he can steady up a bit more.
2018 has to be his year though where he cements a spot or he will be in that bracket of players that will be fighting for their futures.....
Yes, plain and simple.
We cannot afford more list cloggers like Yarran, players of great potential in which we invested so much resource for so very little return!
I'd be making calls earlier rather than later on these players, two to three seasons is more than enough!
I see Dylan's Dad - Jim - has come and out say another Club should pick up Dylan.
Well Jim, truth be told, if he couldn't crack a game at CFC not sure who else would look.
Always thought Dylan might become that line breaker/long goal kicker that he did hint at....but I guess the powers that be knows best....
Don't be a dill, it's not about the exact number of games each has played. 49 is 50 in my book...
49 is 50?
If you say so.
Most will be in the 50-70 game bracket come the end of next season.
Most? Even with including your dodgy (Jack might reach 49 games if he plays every game) one, you are left with 5/16.
One thing I am is a maths geek
:-[
Must be using imaginary numbers then.
I see Dylan's Dad - Jim - has come and out say another Club should pick up Dylan.
Well Jim, truth be told, if he couldn't crack a game at CFC not sure who else would look.
Always thought Dylan might become that line breaker/long goal kicker that he did hint at....but I guess the powers that be knows best....
Dylan is a nice kid but just couldnt develop his body any bigger and his decision making/skills didnt make up for his lack of strength.
Had trouble tackling the modern day player and was a liability under pressure IMO..
Dont see any club taking him other than a state league team....
Improving ball movement to forward 50
Improving ball movement to forward 50
Yep, let SPS, Cunningham, Pickett, Fisher etc off the chain!!!
Yep, let SPS, Cunningham, Pickett, Fisher etc off the chain!!!
You'd expect that is the plan given the recruitment of the Mullett.
The key is to limit the number of cheap turnovers - that's what kills any team...
Interesting to see that some of the media's AFL experts are claiming the key to a CheatsFC 2018 resurgence will be defense over attack.
We spent a lot of time debating the merits of BB's defense first game plan, the same scribes that are calling for CheatSFC to change focus lambasted Carlton for having a game plan that lacked an avenue to goal.
It seems no matter what you do, you will be judged by the media experts to be exactly wrong!
Improving ball movement to forward 50
"Pain" Clubber Lang (1978)
"Pain" Clubber Lang (1978)
Great quote !!
and I agree ' Pain ' watching games 44 -66 in 2018 of a complete rebuild.
I try not to set 'expectations' as they're rarely met. But I will be happy in 2018 if the following occurs:
- One of our key forwards kicks 50+ goals
- One of our small forwards kicks 35+ goals
- We have at least 2 AA reps
- Weitering bounces back from his 2nd Year Blues
- Samo avoids 2nd Year Blues
- We win at least 9 games
- Liam Jones backs up his 2017 finish to the season (if he was one of the AA reps I'd be ecstatic)
- Our green shoots start to sprout
I don't expect us to make finals, but I'd like us to look threatening. If by the end of the season, teams are really starting to fear us again, I'll be very happy.
Hopefully we win 8/9 games and become a side that other teams dread lining up against.
I try not to set 'expectations' as they're rarely met. But I will be happy in 2018 if the following occurs:
- One of our key forwards kicks 50+ goals
- One of our small forwards kicks 35+ goals
- We have at least 2 AA reps
- Weitering bounces back from his 2nd Year Blues
- Samo avoids 2nd Year Blues
- We win at least 9 games
- Liam Jones backs up his 2017 finish to the season (if he was one of the AA reps I'd be ecstatic)
- Our green shoots start to sprout
I don't expect us to make finals, but I'd like us to look threatening. If by the end of the season, teams are really starting to fear us again, I'll be very happy.
That sounds like a team that will easily play finals.
Finals
Finals
I think we need to be in the finals or knocking on the door, or someone will almost certainly release the hounds!
If we have another year like this year, full of honorable last quarter losses, The Judge, SOS and BB will be well advised to put the armour on because somebody will come for them.
Finals
Agreed. or very darn close thereto.
I think we need to be in the finals or knocking on the door, or someone will almost certainly release the hounds!
If we have another year like this year, full of honorable last quarter losses, The Judge, SOS and BB will be well advised to put the armour on because somebody will come for them.
I don't see that happening, at least not next year. If we have another year like 2017, those three are still very safe, even if there is a challenge. My guess, observing at a distance, is that SOS is the most powerful person at the club. He's worked himself into a similar position to Riccuto, except SOS actually does something useful.
I don't see that happening, at least not next year. If we have another year like 2017, those three are still very safe, even if there is a challenge. My guess, observing at a distance, is that SOS is the most powerful person at the club. He's worked himself into a similar position to Riccuto, except SOS actually does something useful.
I think we are more rational than many, when I talk about releasing the hounds it's not myself, but people I know who are far less forgiving and somewhat megalomaniacs.
Okay I do have what to me is a non-negotiable.
The club MUST finish the season considerably better than the previous 2 seasons.
In both of the last 2 seasons the club has floundered in the back half of the season and seen us limp into the off-season.
I expect the club to remain as competitive at the end of the season as at the start. Other clubs can do it, I know we are young, but a few of those lads are starting to get some games against their name now and they need to be able to start seeing a season out.
I don't see that happening, at least not next year. If we have another year like 2017, those three are still very safe, even if there is a challenge. My guess, observing at a distance, is that SOS is the most powerful person at the club. He's worked himself into a similar position to Riccuto, except SOS actually does something useful.
Agree...Bolton will be the fall guy if the SOS drafting program fails.....SOS has a buddy in the Prez and being a hero of the club will give him some bambi credits..
re: Riccuito ...will be the mayor of Adelaide if they win the flag, if they feck up again he will look for a few soft targets to blame...
Gibbs and Docherty omissions will impact negatively on the team’s performance.
I think we'll finish up pretty much as we did this year in the last 3.
Spoon will be decided between Roos, Suns and Blues, we may win 1or 2 more but other teams will improve too.
But it should be the last of the seasons with poor wins withe the great new talent meshing nicely.
Also the pot of gold come draft time will be worth the pain.
I hope I’m proved wrong and surprised with more wins but a little too early 2020 will be our year
Okay I do have what to me is a non-negotiable.
The club MUST finish the season considerably better than the previous 2 seasons.
In both of the last 2 seasons the club has floundered in the back half of the season and seen us limp into the off-season.
I expect the club to remain as competitive at the end of the season as at the start. Other clubs can do it, I know we are young, but a few of those lads are starting to get some games against their name now and they need to be able to start seeing a season out.
I would agree finishing higher is a mandatory requirement but losing Gibbs and Docherty probably gives the football dept an out clause if that doesnt happen.....not sure we can kick enough goals
to win significantly more games..
Our drafting was more future based and I think the trade period was handy but may struggle to cover both Gibbs and Docherty..I'm not sold on players like Dow/Obrien being walk up impact players..
Agree...Bolton will be the fall guy if the SOS drafting program fails.....SOS has a buddy in the Prez and being a hero of the club will give him some bambi credits..
re: Riccuito ...will be the mayor of Adelaide if they win the flag, if they feck up again he will look for a few soft targets to blame...
Yes, not only is he good mates with the Judge, he also has one current and possibly one future spy in the dressing room, and a premiership team mate and fellow defender is the Head Of Football. And as you say, being a club legend doesn't hurt.
Nice work if you can get it.
Agree...Bolton will be the fall guy if the SOS drafting program fails.....SOS has a buddy in the Prez and being a hero of the club will give him some bambi credits..
re: Riccuito ...will be the mayor of Adelaide if they win the flag, if they feck up again he will look for a few soft targets to blame...
The harsh reality is that in some respects the SOS drafting program has been an exercise in compromise. In the past two seasons we went after and failed to get: Tomlinson, Kelly, Rockliff, Smith, Lynch, Saad and maybe another 'name' or two... We were told that in 2017 we would attract and secure a marquee player - didn't happen. None of the blokes we settled on were tried and true winners like the before mentioned. So SOS can hardly say to BB that he's given him A graders to work with... he's given him potential and maybe's. Fingers crossed for 2018.
I would agree finishing higher is a mandatory requirement but losing Gibbs and Docherty probably gives the football dept an out clause if that doesnt happen.....not sure we can kick enough goals
to win significantly more games..
Our drafting was more future based and I think the trade period was handy but may struggle to cover both Gibbs and Docherty..I'm not sold on players like Dow/Obrien being walk up impact players..
Oh I agree on the season overall EB. But specifically our last 8-10 games in both the last 2 seasons have been poor from a results perspective. I could handle say 6-8 wins, if it was 3-4 in the 1st half and the same in the 2nd half.
I also think that Doc and GIbbs are soft excuses, but agree they will be played if it happens.
The reality is that our young player were probably at 50-60% of what they will be like at 25 last year year and this year every one of them should be increasing that to 65-70%. As such that growth across the starting 18 should more than cover both of the players. In essence we should still be a better team without Gibbs and Doc. Not better than we would be if both were playing for us, but better than we were last year.
At some point there comes a time when supporters start to say "enough is enough"
I'm actually surprised the goodwill has lasted this long.
This squad is set up to the point where a lack of improvement in both ladder position and wins should not be acceptable if we're on the right track.
It doesn't have to be dramatic but it has to be apparent.
Side finished 16th with a percentage of 78, lost two of its best 4-5 players (and 2 leaders in a young team thin on leadership), I just can't see how we can win more games in 2018. I'm expecting bottom 3, with 5-6 wins. Upward trajectory should start in 2019
Side finished 16th with a percentage of 78, lost two of its best 4-5 players (and 2 leaders in a young team thin on leadership), I just can't see how we can win more games in 2018. I'm expecting bottom 3, with 5-6 wins. Upward trajectory should start in 2019
Yes, generally agree. A lot of the kids really need to come on in leaps and bounds to win several more than last year. Possible, but not likely IMO. Those Friday night games should really be a hoot.
Finals
Yep, nuffs enuff. No limits, have to aim for finals. May not get there but it has to be the aim and they need to claw, bite and scratch their way to them. Heck I'd aim to win the farken thing. Why not? Time for us to change our attitude and reset OUR goals. As Obama said, "Yes we can".
Hopefully we win 8/9 games and become a side that other teams dread lining up against.
I think we started that this year TBH, IMO no way teams enjoyed playing us.
I don't see that happening, at least not next year. If we have another year like 2017, those three are still very safe, even if there is a challenge. My guess, observing at a distance, is that SOS is the most powerful person at the club. He's worked himself into a similar position to Riccuto, except SOS actually does something useful.
I reckon he is the most important, not the most powerful. If he nails his job, even I could coach them to a premiership. If he was to perform at the levels of the morons before him, Jesus Christ couldn't coach them to a win let alone a flag.
I think we started that this year TBH, IMO no way teams enjoyed playing us.
To a degree GTC but I want them to be dreading our attacking style and swift ball movement on top of our tough defence. ;)
Competitiveness.
- for selection in the NB's, seniors, AFLW
- during each and every game, from start to finish
- in the AFL marketplace = more $$
- within the staff group, thus giving 100% every day
Cohesion - prez to cleaner, and everyone in between
Oh, and my wish rather than expectation, win the AFLW flag
Go new Blues
I believe that at times in 2018 there are going to be a lot of frustrated Carlton supporters and I fear that one or more of the idiotic factions of the club will pull the trigger and thwart the rebuild before it is finished.
The bottom line is that losing Gibbs and Docherty is going to cost us big time. Those two were huge contributors in wins last year (e.g. Gibbs vs Suns) last year and in Tennis parlance, we have to defend those points for starters just to square the ledger. Some of our wins in 2017 were against very highly rated sides and repeating that would be a great effort.
The list is a step closer to where the club wants it to be but aside from Kennedy and Garlett I can't see any of the draftees contributing in a meaningful way for at least a couple of seasons. The future-thinking drafting is a clear sign of staying the stated course, but does not address immediate needs. For example, we have a Grand Canyon-sized chasm forward of centre to fill. I am concerned that other clubs have been viewed as "destination" clubs and have advanced on us simply by the calibre of players they could attract.
As for game style and general play I expect greatly improved ball movement or questions should be asked. The JLT series is going to give a better guide in this area. I assume that Bolton will have learnt from some of the mistakes of this year e.g playing excessively young sides or inappropriate selections.
The silver lining is next year's draft. Kids like Jack Lukosious and Ivan Rankine are rated as once in a generation type players.
Gibbs and Docherty will be missed...but in the Gibbs case we seem to have recruited players that, even given a worst case scenario, would cover that loss by about 75-80%.
Docherty is arguably our most important player but right up there with him is Cripps and basically it was season over when he went down for the last part of the season.
As well as that we had some significant season ending injuries to other players so the in end it will be injuries that largely determine our fate.
What we hope is that the recruitment of players has added the depth to cover some of these and there is a natural progression of some of the younger players.
Don’t think Gibbs will be as big a loss as many on here are making out. Once you factor we get back Crippa and Ed who both provide the grunt we missed badly in the second half of last season I think he rd 1 team will be superior to the team that ended last season.
Doc on the other hand will be a big loss. Can’t replace him but I’m hopeful that we have a large group of young players in Charlie, jack, SPS, Fisher etc that you would expect a decent increase in output from will still provide us with a bigger boast even taking docs absence into it.
I’m still one of the positive supporters expecting a better year win wise then last year. With the draw we have if injuries to key personal are low I expect 8-10 wins and no blow out loses.
I think that the club will persevere with the list rebuild at least for 2018 and possibly beyond. Our pursuit of youthful talent demonstrates that, together with the attempts to bolster the more senior ranks somewhat without selling the farm at this stage The loss of both Gibbs and Docherty will be challenging, although we did manage to hold on to Gibbs for 2017, but I'm looking forward to the emerging talent rising to fill those gaps, together with new recruits such as Mullet, Lang and Garlett.
The 2018 draft and trade periods will likely put the main finishing touches to the rebuild as such and we may even add a marquee player or even two? We are following a good strategy IMO, bearing in mind our recent dire predicament, and I'd be very very surprised if any faction in the club gets any opportunity to pull the pin on it for at least the next two years. By which time I believe the benefits will have become obvious! (puts head on block).
In my previous post re expectations I left out one very important expectation. Excitement. I really expect to see an exciting brand of footy from us next year, with plenty of dash and dare. The ruthless defensiveness can't fall away, but when we've got the aggott let's be bold with our offensive game.
We've added a lot of outside speed and a lot of left footers.
Garlett, Dow, O'Brien, Schumacher, Mullett added to Willo, Simmo, Harry? (who else). Is O'Shea a leftie?
Even with Doc sidelined and Gibbs goneski (hooray) there will be intense competition for spots.
But you'd expect Mullet wasn't picked up to play 2s, ditto Garlett.
Will Dow and O'Brien be ready for senior action after a (hopefully) injury free pres season.
Having a few players who can kick goals from the 50 arc inevitably disrupts the other team's defensive structures....
From foxsports:
BEST 22
B: Lachie Plowman, Liam Jones, Ciaran Byrne
HB: Caleb Marchbank, Jacob Weitering, Kade Simpson
C: Ed Curnow, Patrick Cripps, Sam Petrevski-Seton
HF: Darcy Lang, Charlie Curnow, Dale Thomas
F: Matthew Wright, Levi Casboult, Harry McKay
FOLL: Matthew Kreuzer, Marc Murphy, Matthew Kennedy
I/C: Tom Williamson, Paddy Dow, Jack Silvagni, Zac Fisher
EMG: Jarrod Pickett, Sam Rowe, Jed Lamb
OTHERS: David Cuningham, Tom De Koning, Jarrod Garlett, Nick Graham, Patrick Kerr, Sam Kerridge, Matthew Lobbe, Harrison Macreadie, Aaron Mullett, Lochie O’Brien, Cam O’Shea, Andrew Phillips, Cam Polson, Angus Schumacher
I really think Simmo and Daisy will struggle to retain a top 22 berth.
I'd have Garlett ahead of Daisy by a country mile personally.
Simmo might be safer given Doc's injury and the need for experience.....expect O'Brien, Mullett, Pickett, Cuners, Macreadie and O'She to be pushing very hard for starting berths.
Interesting selection Flyboy, I'm not sure Byrne is such a certainty but he is getting a run in a lot of supporters teams.
For me Liam Jones mobility negates the need for Byrne, I can see Rowe, Jones and Weitering in the one defense with Ploughman, Marchbank and someone like Garlett, Macreadie or Williamson providing run and ball use in the remaining spot.
Wright and Daisy might be under the pump along with Simmo, but their footy smarts and experience make up for what they lack so it's not a black and white issue. Going back a lot of fans bemoaned McLean getting a game, it will be no different with the current group of oldies.
I think that the club will persevere with the list rebuild at least for 2018 and possibly beyond. Our pursuit of youthful talent demonstrates that, together with the attempts to bolster the more senior ranks somewhat without selling the farm at this stage The loss of both Gibbs and Docherty will be challenging, although we did manage to hold on to Gibbs for 2017, but I'm looking forward to the emerging talent rising to fill those gaps, together with new recruits such as Mullet, Lang and Garlett.
The 2018 draft and trade periods will likely put the main finishing touches to the rebuild as such and we may even add a marquee player or even two? We are following a good strategy IMO, bearing in mind our recent dire predicament, and I'd be very very surprised if any faction in the club gets any opportunity to pull the pin on it for at least the next two years. By which time I believe the benefits will have become obvious! (puts head on block).
New look list needs a new captain to steer the new direction......2019 I would change the leadership group and start with a new captain.
2018 is meant to be a strong draft...IMO its the last one we should be going hard on young kids and we should be starting to get some A grade readymade talent through the door...problem with that of course is we need to win more games to sell the club as finals bound and I think with Gibbs and Docherty missing thats going to be the hard bit .
Kennedy, Lang and Lobbe were fringe players at their previous clubs..Mullet was dumped for being soft....Garlett is a unknown quantity for several reasons...not to say these players wont grab their opportunity and be good players for us but at the moment improvement and coverage for the loss of Gibbs and Docherty is very speculative and their isnt one game on the fixture I would back us in with a concrete guarantee we would win. 2018 is a holding year IMO, if we win more games its a bonus and the likes of Lynch, Patton might want to come our way but I'd temper that with common sense that losing your best player(Docherty) for 12 months and one of your top 5 ie Gibbs isnt an easy fix with fringe players from other clubs and lightly built kids fresh from the draft.
Another injury or two to key players and we would be on the ropes...all while trying to discover a new attacking game style and integrate new kids into the senior team.. we have to hope also that some other teams go backwards at a big rate of knots and some of the others on the rise stagnate...
@EB1
Great observations EB. Atm we have to trust in SOS and BB et al to get it right. A key factor will be player mindsets and the club culture which, as you have pointed out, will definitely be subjected to arduous stress testing. I think for healthy development in those areas we need 8/9 wins. more if we could! I'm certainly feeling positive generally but all we can really do for now is hope, trust and wait!
Interesting selection Flyboy, I'm not sure Byrne is such a certainty but he is getting a run in a lot of supporters teams.
For me Liam Jones mobility negates the need for Byrne, I can see Rowe, Jones and Weitering in the one defense with Ploughman, Marchbank and someone like Garlett, Macreadie or Williamson providing run and ball use in the remaining spot.
Wright and Daisy might be under the pump along with Simmo, but their footy smarts and experience make up for what they lack so it's not a black and white issue. Going back a lot of fans bemoaned McLean getting a game, it will be no different with the current group of oldies.
The selected 22 was from foxsports..... agree with Wright given his well defined output - goals. can't agree re Daisy. He simply doesn't get the ball enough nor influence games enough these days....
I'd like Alex S. in there too - gives a bit more hardness to the backline and can pinch hit forward too.
10+ wins.
no excuses.
start the season raring to go rather than limping into it, and finish stronger, rather than limping out of it. attack more.
ride the wave of youthful enthusiasm boys. stick it up 'em.
Kennedy, Lang and Lobbe were fringe players at their previous clubs..Mullet was dumped for being soft....Garlett is a unknown quantity for several reasons...not to say these players wont grab their opportunity
Can't agree EB.
Kennedy - played 16 games in 2017. At age 20 in the best midfield in the comp. All but guaranteed to be an A grader.
Lang - wants to be a midfielder but after several injury setbacks in 2017 played a major role in Geelong's semi final win over the Swans. in their best and 4th highest disposal winner.
Lobbe - we'll see but clearly was capable of being a bloody good #1 ruck.
Garlett - he'll be in our top ten come season's end.
Mullett - who knows, his best looks good....hard to believe he's "soft".
..Mullet was dumped for being soft....
Was Mullet dumped for being soft?
His highlights don't seem to suggest that, at least not relative to some of our players.
But he certainly wasn't the mongrel player like Ziebell that Ol' Pudding Face likes.
I'd like Alex S. in there too - gives a bit more hardness to the backline and can pinch hit forward too.
Interesting we've left ACoS a rookie though, maybe that is a tell.
The harsh reality is that in some respects the SOS drafting program has been an exercise in compromise. In the past two seasons we went after and failed to get: Tomlinson, Kelly, Rockliff, Smith, Lynch, Saad and maybe another 'name' or two... We were told that in 2017 we would attract and secure a marquee player - didn't happen. None of the blokes we settled on were tried and true winners like the before mentioned. So SOS can hardly say to BB that he's given him A graders to work with... he's given him potential and maybe's. Fingers crossed for 2018.
Yeah that is an interesting post Baggers actually. You are right- in terms of attracting good players to the club, with the exception of Marchbank, I don't think he has delivered really. But what he has done is picked a few rippers in the draft, and possibly a few recycles with a big upside. That was better than the last bunch of buffoons led by Rogers/Hughes. The issue we have is when you are excrement, no one wants to come to you. This will not change next year either if we are uncompetitive. We must win at least 8-10 games and show stars that we are a place that can make them into better footballers. It is not all about cash. Players these days have enough of that.
I think SOS has done an okay job so far, but this draft has me raising my eyebrows a bit. I really think we should have taken UDL at pick 3, though Dow may be a great player for us I will concede. Pick 10 looks questionable, and I don't really think taking a ruck at pick 30 is a great idea, given there were other good mids available at that time. Again, I could be proven wrong, and I hope i am. Of the ones SOS has drafted, Charlie looks like a potential superstar, Seton is a gun in the making, and I think the 'project picks' - Pickett and Garlett could be very useful for us. Kennedy should be handy, Plowman is very consistent, and SOSOS has a big upside. Harry too, and Cunningham seems ok. Fisher and Williamson great late picks, and I rate Macreadie too. So not bad from SOS. But this year and next will be the big tester. The fact remains, we have still balked at recruiting forwards- this could well be our biggest issue. It would be interesting to see how a true gun FF and small forward would change our win-loss ratio. Would it change it immediately? I think it might.
Haters gonna hate
Can't agree EB.
Kennedy - played 16 games in 2017. At age 20 in the best midfield in the comp. All but guaranteed to be an A grader....Very good Blue Collar worker but not silky like Gibbs..
Lang - wants to be a midfielder but after several injury setbacks in 2017 played a major role in Geelong's semi final win over the Swans. in their best and 4th highest disposal winner...unproven midfielder
Lobbe - we'll see but clearly was capable of being a bloody good #1 ruck....tap ruckman only, no forward impact
Garlett - he'll be in our top ten come season's end.........agree has talent and I like his selection but unproven over the journey..
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Mullett - who knows, his best looks good....hard to believe he's "soft"......cut from a weak Nth small defensive unit and working class midfield due to poor contested work, replaced by Marley Williams who got booted by Collingwood....
They can all improve and some will but I'm not prepared to presume they will have a major impact in 2018.....
Kennedy will be a good player and gives me the most confidence.....
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-30/adelaides-2018-list-is-one-for-the-ages
We have the 5th youngest list in the comp.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-30/adelaides-2018-list-is-one-for-the-ages
We have the 5th youngest list in the comp.
Not much in it though when you consider we have ACoS as a rookie, Simmo going strong, and Murphy, Daisy and Rowe entering their 30s. Lobbe, Kreuzer, Wright, Curnow and Casboult in their late 20s.
Not offsetting the averages but highlighting their somewhat deceptiveness. Liam Jones is like a 3rd year player in his new role after years in the wilderness.
Knock off Simmo and ACoS from the averages for draftees and you take more than 150 days off our average, we become the 2nd youngest.
Not much in it thought when you consider we have ACoS as a rookie, Simmo going strong, and Murphy, Daisy and Rowe entering their 30s. Lobbe, Kreuzer, Wright, Curnow and Casboult in their late 20s.
Not offsetting the averages but highlighting their somewhat deceptiveness. Liam Jones is like a 3rd year player in his new role after years in the wilderness.
Knock off Simmo and ACoS from the averages for draftees and you take more than 150 days off our average, we become the 2nd youngest.
Yes, I guess an age bracket breakdown would be better.
Yes, I guess an age bracket breakdown would be better.
I was sort of trying to make the point, ACoS and Simmo are no certainty to get a regular run in 2018, and that would have a massive impact on our relative on-field experience! Rowe is injured, take away his age from the averages and we are the youngest in the league, Docherty is injured further lower our average age. Phillips is injured, again that lowers it a bit more. If any of the other old bodies get an injury we become significantly younger on field than any other list.
Bugger it...22-0!
Bugger it...22-0!
Well, I suppose it is like those other stats just a relative measure, in this case potentially of experience and durability.
I was sort of trying to make the point, ACoS and Simmo are no certainty to get a regular run in 2018, and that would have a massive impact on our relative on-field experience! Rowe is injured, take away his age from the averages and we are the youngest in the league, Docherty is injured further lower our average age. Phillips is injured, again that lowers it a bit more. If any of the other old bodies get an injury we become significantly younger on field than any other list.
I get all that. We also lost Gibbs, and brought in younger players like Kennedy, Lang and Mullet.
My personal opinion is that Simmo looked shaky last season and should have retired. With Doc injured, and a mostly young defense, I think he'll play a lot of senior footy.
In the past two seasons we went after and failed to get: Tomlinson, Kelly, Rockliff, Smith, Lynch, Saad and maybe another 'name' or two...
Very simplistic analysis.
Tomlinson we almost got. deal didn't get done at the 11th hour. he stayed put. Ditto Kelly (and 2020 looms ;) ).
Marchy >> Tomlinson.
Rockliff - meh, wanted massive dollars and is clearly a highly divisive individual. Not a good fit for our young group.
Smith - didn't he fail a medical? Small forward, is he any better than Lang - very unproven.
Saad - meh, one half decent season. Prefer Garlett every day of the week. More skills, more tricks, far more versatile.
Lynch - who knows...nothing was ever going to happen by now in any event?
Rockliff - meh, wanted massive dollars and is clearly a highly divisive individual. Not a good fit for our young group.
Agree about the dollars, he might have delivered some on-field durability and experience, but not wanted at that price.
Saad - meh, one half decent season. Prefer Garlett every day of the week. More skills, more tricks, far more versatile.
Agreed, Saad looks one dimensional compared to some of our pick-ups.
Lynch - who knows...nothing was ever going to happen by now in any event?
My sources from his home town tell me he's very happy to stay at GC now the coaching situation is resolved. It's funny how back during the season homesickness was an issue, change the coach and things are again rosey. But I know two Melbourne clubs who will go hard at him, and they both have home town locals on the board.
In the past two seasons we went after and failed to get: Tomlinson, Kelly, Rockliff, Smith, Lynch, Saad and maybe another 'name' or two...
Very simplistic analysis.
Tomlinson we almost got. deal didn't get done at the 11th hour. he stayed put. Ditto Kelly (and 2020 looms ;) ).
Marchy >> Tomlinson.
Rockliff - meh, wanted massive dollars and is clearly a highly divisive individual. Not a good fit for our young group.
Smith - didn't he fail a medical? Small forward, is he any better than Lang - very unproven.
Saad - meh, one half decent season. Prefer Garlett every day of the week. More skills, more tricks, far more versatile.
Lynch - who knows...nothing was ever going to happen by now in any event?
...and Hopper...
It wasn't an analysis it was a statement of facts. Port went after Rockcliff and got him, cheats.com.au went after Smith and Saad and got them, GWS upped the anti and Kelly, Tomlinson and Hopper stayed. We failed to get people we went after. It's not a criticism, though it may sound that way, it is simply a statement of facts. Of course there are reasons, excuses, justifications, rationalisations and so on, but highly successful organisations get what they want, mostly. Look at the highly successful clubs in recent history (Dawks, Fluffy Ducks etc), they get their man... no matter what. Like it or not, we're a bottom club with potential going through enormous change.
HOWEVER, our time will come. We're clearly not a destination club at present and no matter how good SOS is, the lure of going to a club that plays finals is much stronger than being part of a rebuild... It won't take too long, I believe, before we are once again where we should be - playing finals regularly and maybe, just maybe, a few blokes who declined our advances may soon regret it.
You're missing the point.
We certainly could have got Smith and Rockliff if we had paid significant overs.... the GWS blokes that chose to stay, for the moment, well no one else snared them either, did they?
Stringer, Smith and Saad are hardly world beaters.
Bit like the blokes that Port picked up - lots of meh, maybe, no thanks imo.
Garlett, Lang and Kennedy are a better trio any day.
And although obviously too early to call re the recent draftees but name a Club that has done better thsn the Blues in the last 3 national drafts?
We've added a lot of outside speed and a lot of left footers.
Garlett, Dow, O'Brien, Schumacher, Mullett added to Willo, Simmo, Harry? (who else). Is O'Shea a leftie?
Even with Doc sidelined and Gibbs goneski (hooray) there will be intense competition for spots.
But you'd expect Mullet wasn't picked up to play 2s, ditto Garlett.
Will Dow and O'Brien be ready for senior action after a (hopefully) injury free pres season.
Having a few players who can kick goals from the 50 arc inevitably disrupts the other team's defensive structures....
From foxsports:
BEST 22
B: Lachie Plowman, Liam Jones, Ciaran Byrne
HB: Caleb Marchbank, Jacob Weitering, Kade Simpson
C: Ed Curnow, Patrick Cripps, Sam Petrevski-Seton
HF: Darcy Lang, Charlie Curnow, Dale Thomas
F: Matthew Wright, Levi Casboult, Harry McKay
FOLL: Matthew Kreuzer, Marc Murphy, Matthew Kennedy
I/C: Tom Williamson, Paddy Dow, Jack Silvagni, Zac Fisher
EMG: Jarrod Pickett, Sam Rowe, Jed Lamb
OTHERS: David Cuningham, Tom De Koning, Jarrod Garlett, Nick Graham, Patrick Kerr, Sam Kerridge, Matthew Lobbe, Harrison Macreadie, Aaron Mullett, Lochie O’Brien, Cam O’Shea, Andrew Phillips, Cam Polson, Angus Schumacher
I really think Simmo and Daisy will struggle to retain a top 22 berth.
I'd have Garlett ahead of Daisy by a country mile personally.
Simmo might be safer given Doc's injury and the need for experience.....expect O'Brien, Mullett, Pickett, Cuners, Macreadie and O'She to be pushing very hard for starting berths.
And little Zac. Sammo of course is ambidextrous, or whatever you call the foot version ::)
You're missing the point.
We certainly could have got Smith and Rockliff if we had paid significant overs.... the GWS blokes that chose to stay, for the moment, well no one else snared them either, did they?
Stringer, Smith and Saad are hardly world beaters.
Bit like the blokes that Port picked up - lots of meh, maybe, no thanks imo.
Garlett, Lang and Kennedy are a better trio any day.
And although obviously too early to call re the recent draftees but name a Club that has done better thsn the Blues in the last 3 national drafts?
Tend to see it your way FB. No one said this rebuild was going to be quick and easy! We'll win with some and maybe not with others - just think, this time last year Liam Jones was a write off in most minds.
My sources from his home town tell me he's very happy to stay at GC now the coaching situation is resolved. It's funny how back during the season homesickness was an issue, change the coach and things are again rosey. But I know two Melbourne clubs who will go hard at him, and they both have home town locals on the board.
His recent presser was classic "I'm out of here at the end of the season!" But you never know until the deal is done.
And little Zac. Sammo of course is ambidextrous, or whatever you call the foot version ::)
I didn't know Dow was a left footer - he seems a right foot player from what I have seen. Lochie O'Brien is heavily left footed, not sure about the others - actually De Koning is a lefty as well.
You're missing the point.
We certainly could have got Smith and Rockliff if we had paid significant overs.... the GWS blokes that chose to stay, for the moment, well no one else snared them either, did they?
Stringer, Smith and Saad are hardly world beaters.
Bit like the blokes that Port picked up - lots of meh, maybe, no thanks imo.
Garlett, Lang and Kennedy are a better trio any day.
And although obviously too early to call re the recent draftees but name a Club that has done better thsn the Blues in the last 3 national drafts?
I tend to agree FB and I like that the club won't throw the bank at blokes who aren't worth it. Rockliff sounded like a good mature replacement for Gibbs but he's no world beater and Kennedy is a better bet for many reasons.
Smith? Wouldn't have made much difference ... except to our bank balance! Saad is an ordinary player and Stringer could be good, or a disaster. Did we really have an interest in Stringer or was it his manager trying to drive up his price?
Silvagni is really focused on good character when deciding who he wants and I'm not sure that greed is one of character attributes he's looking for :)
I still believe we'll either get Wines in 2019 or Kelly the following year.
That in itself, should be enough to entice a Tom Lynch but my question is if Harry and/or Kerr come on in 2018 (with Da King and Ben S as raw KPP types) is he going to be worth the massive $?
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-02/best-22-your-clubs-first-choice-for-2018
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-02/best-22-your-clubs-first-choice-for-2018
Cant disagree with much of that except for Willo who is a walk up start in the best 22 IMO. With Doc out Willo goes in for mine.
Simmo and Daisy will be a watch and see but their days are numbered I would have thought.
B: Kade Simpson, Liam Jones, Caleb Marchbank
HB: Sam Docherty, Jacob Weitering, Lachie Plowman
C: Sam Petrevski-Seton, Patrick Cripps, Matthew Kennedy
HF: Charlie Curnow, Harry McKay, Matthew Wright
F: Jack Silvagni, Levi Casboult, Jarrod Pickett
Foll: Matthew Kreuzer, Ed Curnow, Marc Murphy
I/C: Paddy Dow, Zac Fisher, Darcy Lang, Dale Thomas
DEPTH
General defenders: Ciaran Byrne, Cillian McDaid, Aaron Mullett, Cameron O’Shea, Alex Silvagni, Tom Williamson
Key defenders: Jesse Glass-McCasker, Harrison Macreadie, Sam Rowe
Midfielders: David Cuningham, Nick Graham, Sam Kerridge, Lochie O’Brien, Angus Schumacher, Matt Shaw
General forwards: Jarrod Garlett, Jed Lamb, Kym Lebois, Cameron Polson
Key forwards: Tom De Koning, Patrick Kerr
Ruckmen: Matthew Lobbe, Andrew Phillips
Garlett will be in the 22 Round 1.
Minus Gibbs and Docherty my expectations have taken a hit.
Trading Gibbs was a no brainer seeing as he would have walked at the end of 2018 anyway, and we got a better deal than whatever lame compensation the AFL would have given us for a 30 year old who is short of A grade.
Docherty is a bigger loss IMO, but at least it's better to lose him for a season now that at this time next year, we have some very promising young running backs but none of them in his class.
A lot hinges on Harry McKay and whether Pickett or Garlett can establish themselves as genuine AFL footballers, if everything goes our way and we have a reasonable run with injury we could give the 8 a shake, but for that to happen we need to score an extra three goals a game minimum and it's hard to see where they're going to come from.
I really can't see Jack Silvagni developing into a multiple goal a game player, he's honest and talented but he'll never be high impact.
Charlie Curnow might kick plenty if his kicking improves, but it's a big if and he'll probably kick almost as many points as goals.
You're missing the point.
We certainly could have got Smith and Rockliff if we had paid significant overs.... the GWS blokes that chose to stay, for the moment, well no one else snared them either, did they?
Stringer, Smith and Saad are hardly world beaters.
Bit like the blokes that Port picked up - lots of meh, maybe, no thanks imo.
Garlett, Lang and Kennedy are a better trio any day.
And although obviously too early to call re the recent draftees but name a Club that has done better thsn the Blues in the last 3 national drafts?
I suspect you believe that I am missing YOUR point. So, how about this... your point seems to be that some of who we targetted in the trade week and a bit we had no chance of getting as they stayed put, some weren't that good anyway and Rockcliff went to PA for money - how do we know this for sure? And bearing all that in mind, we've done really well to get Kennedy, Lang etc. Yes, I get that point and have no trouble agreeing... besides, the option is a little grim. However, you seemed to have missed my point, which is, simply, we didn't succeed at getting a few of our primary targets. No more complicated than that. Put another way, had we secured Rockcliff, Saad and say Hopper, do you think we'd have Kennedy and Lang now? Probably not.
And in the fullness of time, who knows... maybe we'll get Sloane next year and Kelly the year after, and Kennedy and Lang turn out to be guns and Mullett and Shaw turn out to be more than useful? Fingers crossed.
As far as the draft goes, I totally agree that there does not seem to be any club that has done as well as us in the past 3 drafts...
There is a lot of assumption around Rockliff and him choosing Port for money. Is there any proof that the money we offered was more, the same, or less?
We quickly assume a club who turns us down chose more money elsewhere, but it is hardly like we have been a destination club for top talent.
I don't know what money Rocky is on, but I do know that we went after him and he chose Port above us, indicating finals as being a key reason. Whether that is true or not, it holds a lot more weight than pure speculation he went for more money than we were offering.
Oh & I don't actually care that he didn't come, I just find it weird the assumptions that get made when a player doesn't come to us.
It is not like we have gone through a number of coaches with limited success, 10 years of hardly playing finals, 4 wooden spoons in about 15 years, another couple of bottom 4 finishes or been as much of an easy beat as the team he just left...
Oh wait... Come to think of it...
There is a lot of assumption around Rockliff and him choosing Port for money. Is there any proof that the money we offered was more, the same, or less?
We quickly assume a club who turns us down chose more money elsewhere, but it is hardly like we have been a destination club for top talent.
I don't know what money Rocky is on, but I do know that we went after him and he chose Port above us, indicating finals as being a key reason. Whether that is true or not, it holds a lot more weight than pure speculation he went for more money than we were offering.
Oh & I don't actually care that he didn't come, I just find it weird the assumptions that get made when a player doesn't come to us.
It is not like we have gone through a number of coaches with limited success, 10 years of hardly playing finals, 4 wooden spoons in about 15 years, another couple of bottom 4 finishes or been as much of an easy beat as the team he just left...
Oh wait... Come to think of it...
I guess the only thing we know for certain is that Rockliff chose Port shortly after meeting Sticks and Juddy. Did that put him off or perhaps he didn't impress them and we went cold on the deal.
No assumptions...Rockliff was offered a 4 year deal by Port at a touch over 2.8 mill, we beat Brisbane's initial offer which was 550k a season but were never going to beat the Port offer. The finals angle was part BS IMO, he went for the extra dough as the major factor, he was looking for 800k last time his manager shopped him around....
We have had a recent history of offering unders...Smith went for the extra money at Essendon and then pulled the better rehab facilities story out....Bombers also paid overs for Stringer to get him..
Players go for the big dollars unless its a no hoper club like North doing the offering and coached by an ego maniac like Brad Scott...then they think twice...
There is a lot of assumption around Rockliff and him choosing Port for money. Is there any proof that the money we offered was more, the same, or less?
We quickly assume a club who turns us down chose more money elsewhere, but it is hardly like we have been a destination club for top talent.
I don't know what money Rocky is on, but I do know that we went after him and he chose Port above us, indicating finals as being a key reason. Whether that is true or not, it holds a lot more weight than pure speculation he went for more money than we were offering.
Oh & I don't actually care that he didn't come, I just find it weird the assumptions that get made when a player doesn't come to us.
It is not like we have gone through a number of coaches with limited success, 10 years of hardly playing finals, 4 wooden spoons in about 15 years, another couple of bottom 4 finishes or been as much of an easy beat as the team he just left...
Oh wait... Come to think of it...
Im personally happy he didn't come.
No assumptions...Rockliff was offered a 4 year deal by Port at a touch over 2.8 mill, we beat Brisbane's initial offer which was 550k a season but were never going to beat the Port offer. The finals angle was part BS IMO, he went for the extra dough as the major factor, he was looking for 800k last time his manager shopped him around....
We have had a recent history of offering unders...Smith went for the extra money at Essendon and then pulled the better rehab facilities story out....Bombers also paid overs for Stringer to get him..
Players go for the big dollars unless its a no hoper club like North doing the offering and coached by an ego maniac like Brad Scott...then they think twice...
Well said EB.
Plenty of good players have
chosen to come to Carlton in recent years - Marchbank (whom GWS desperately wanted to keep), Plow, Pickett etc and lately Kennedy, Lang and even Garlett.
The vibe can't be all that bad coming out of Prinny Park?
Perhaps it comes down to the character of some types? That is, Rockliff types.... no thanks, good riddance.
Well said EB.
Plenty of good players have chosen to come to Carlton in recent years - Marchbank (whom GWS desperately wanted to keep), Plow, Pickett etc and lately Kennedy, Lang and even Garlett.
The vibe can't be all that bad coming out of Prinny Park?
Perhaps it comes down to the character of some types? That is, Rockliff types.... no thanks, good riddance.
Initially I was annoyed at missing on Rockliff but after reflecting its better we grow our own and have players all growing at the same time......the successful clubs all seem to have
their best players around the same age group.
Initially I was annoyed at missing on Rockliff but after reflecting its better we grow our own and have players all growing at the same time......the successful clubs all seem to have
their best players around the same age group.
I was concerned that we needed him in light of Gibbs departure. Feeling a lot more positive now.
I was concerned that we needed him in light of Gibbs departure. Feeling a lot more positive now.
Think Gibbs leaving will set us back a year probably...we have plenty of kids who can use his onball game time and learn the roles he did.
Its a changing of the guard...Simpson, Murphy, Kreuzer all will have to be replaced and its better we stagger these players leaving so Gibbs might have done us a favour by being able to train
up some kids for his role while we still have these other experienced players to help out.
Think Gibbs leaving will set us back a year probably...we have plenty of kids who can use his onball game time and learn the roles he did.
Its a changing of the guard...Simpson, Murphy, Kreuzer all will have to be replaced and its better we stagger these players leaving so Gibbs might have done us a favour by being able to train
up some kids for his role while we still have these other experienced players to help out.
I was of the opinion that Gibbs leaving would set us back but, after giving it some thought, I reckon our midfield is stronger now.
We effectively lost Gibbs, Buckley, Boekhorst, Smedts, Sumner, Armfield, Palmer and Gallucci out of our potential midfielders (Smedts was primarily a defender but he did take part in our midfield rotations). We replaced that lot with Lang, Kennedy, Mullett, Shaw and Garlett, all of whom have midfield experience at AFL level. On top of that are our draft picks and I reckon Dow and O'Brien will both debut earlier rather than later.
We then have the return from injury of Cripps and Ed Curnow and another pre-season into the likes of Samo, Fisher, Cuningham and Polson.
We may not have replaced Gibbs with a player of equal ability but our midfield is significantly stronger than what we had in the last half of last season.
We may not have replaced Gibbs with a player of equal ability but our midfield is significantly stronger than what we had in the last half of last season.
Agree DJC.
Kennedy played 16 senior games last season in a team with a very strong midfield. He'll be stronger and better this coming season.
Garlett just might be a real surprise and Shaw has played over 100 games.
You don't get to play 100 games in the AFL if you are a spud.
Cripps and Ed.C. fully fit again, SPS and Fisher a year older . . . . . . Yep, plenty to look forward too.
Don't write off Kerridge either.
Still only 24 with 70 odd games under his belt. His form at the back end of 2017 was very good highlighted by much improved disposal.....
Darcy Lang and Pickett also have claims to more midfield time too.
I really don't think we'll miss Gibbs at al - and with due respect to Bryce he did have a bit of a give the ball to me attitude with his team mates a lot of the time imo :o
I can’t see how removing Gibbs automatically strengthens our midfield, without doubt our starting midfield is weaker without him.
I think where we do gain is that we will bat deeper, our rotations are stronger because of what we were able to get in return for Gibbs.
As for improving the likes of Kerridge, well that’s the holy grail isn’t it ?
If you can turn B graders into B+ then you’re well on the way to deep September action.
The trick is to be able to do it...
I can’t see how removing Gibbs automatically strengthens our midfield, without doubt our starting midfield is weaker without him.
I think where we do gain is that we will bat deeper, our rotations are stronger because of what we were able to get in return for Gibbs.
As for improving the likes of Kerridge, well that’s the holy grail isn’t it ?
If you can turn B graders into B+ then you’re well on the way to deep September action.
The trick is to be able to do it...
Kerridge does not really impact games imo - very untidy footballer with suspect disposal. I don't know how that could be turned around tbh.
Kerridge does not really impact games imo - very untidy footballer with suspect disposal. I don't know how that could be turned around tbh.
Basically Robbo by another name.
Kerridge does not really impact games imo - very untidy footballer with suspect disposal. I don't know how that could be turned around tbh.
What makes some footballers fixable and others not?
Kerridge does not really impact games imo - very untidy footballer with suspect disposal. I don't know how that could be turned around tbh.
His disposal in the last handful of games was excellent - indeed, better disposal efficiency, considerably, than Gibbs.
His disposal in the last handful of games was excellent - indeed, better disposal efficiency, considerably, than Gibbs.
Took him long enough. Let's see if he can keep it up - it'll be a bonus if he can.
Blue4Life reckons Gibbs would have walked at the end of 2018. I don't think that's how the scenario would have worked. Gibbs has been very committed to Carlton, more than some on this site were committed to him. I think an extension would have been added to his contract so we would have kept a strong bargaining position. Losing Gibbs and Docherty is a big blow. Basically we have lost two of our best five players from 2017 so our progress will be hampered. I think we have recruited well whereby we have broadened our depth of players who will be able to make a regular contribution this year and improve the teams output, but lost a bit at the front end of our player group.
what I want is for us to better against Brisbane, North Melbourne, Gold Coast and Fremantle, who were down with us, as well as Collingwood and Hawthorn who I cannot see improving. If we can get a few more wins against these sides, get some wins against the mid range sides, St.Kilda, Melbourne, WCE, Essendon, and maybe win a couple against the better clubs, we may get 7 to 10 wins for the seasons.
That is my outcome expectations, what my process expectations is more goals, better and more consistent performance by those who have been on our list for a couple of seasons, a bit more flow in our game and no games where we are uncompetitive.
Blue4Life reckons Gibbs would have walked at the end of 2018. I don't think that's how the scenario would have worked. Gibbs has been very committed to Carlton, more than some on this site were committed to him. I think an extension would have been added to his contract so we would have kept a strong bargaining position. Losing Gibbs and Docherty is a big blow. Basically we have lost two of our best five players from 2017 so our progress will be hampered. I think we have recruited well whereby we have broadened our depth of players who will be able to make a regular contribution this year and improve the teams output, but lost a bit at the front end of our player group.
what I want is for us to better against Brisbane, North Melbourne, Gold Coast and Fremantle, who were down with us, as well as Collingwood and Hawthorn who I cannot see improving. If we can get a few more wins against these sides, get some wins against the mid range sides, St.Kilda, Melbourne, WCE, Essendon, and maybe win a couple against the better clubs, we may get 7 to 10 wins for the seasons.
That is my outcome expectations, what my process expectations is more goals, better and more consistent performance by those who have been on our list for a couple of seasons, a bit more flow in our game and no games where we are uncompetitive.
Or others will step up.....
We beat Sydney, GWS and Essendon in 2017 - all finalists. Beat PA and nearly the Cokers....
And very rarely got smashed. We need some luck with injuries (apologies to Doc).
The Tigers were remarkably lucky with injuries in their run to the flag.
I think Doc going down won'y hurt us at all, no disrespect to him. others can and will step up.
Gibbs - meh, imo. Only turned up largely when he felt like it imo.
On his day a ripper player,but too often happy to rest on his laurels.
My best 22 would be along the lines of:
B: Byrne, Jones, Marchbank
Hb: Plowman, Weitering, Simpson
C: Lang, Cripps, Petrevski-Seton
Hf: Garlett, C.Curnow, Pickett
F: Wright, Casboult, Fisher
Foll: Kreuzer, Kennedy
Rov: Murphy
I/c: J.Silvagni, Dow, Cuningham, E.Curnow
Emerg: Lamb, McKay, Mullett
I like it Pratty though I'd like to have ACoS in there somewhere as he adds some real toughness....
Very pacy forward line and as we know kicking to Casboult he rarely loses a marking contest so if the ball hits the deck....
O'Brien looms as a chance ahead of either Cuners or Lamb.
And what of the mullett?
No assumptions...Rockliff was offered a 4 year deal by Port at a touch over 2.8 mill, we beat Brisbane's initial offer which was 550k a season but were never going to beat the Port offer. The finals angle was part BS IMO, he went for the extra dough as the major factor, he was looking for 800k last time his manager shopped him around....
We have had a recent history of offering unders...Smith went for the extra money at Essendon and then pulled the better rehab facilities story out....Bombers also paid overs for Stringer to get him..
Players go for the big dollars unless its a no hoper club like North doing the offering and coached by an ego maniac like Brad Scott...then they think twice...
So EB you have those details as fact on what we offered and what Port offered?
You also have as fact that Essendon offered more than we did?
I am not saying this is impossible, I am saying I find it very unlikely that people on the forum here are privy to enough detail to determine what our final offers were.
B Simpson Jones Marchbank
HB OShea Weitering Plowman
C Fisher Cripps Mullet
HF J.Silvagni C.Curnow SPS
F Wright Casboult Pickett
Foll: Kreuzer Kennedy
Rov Murphy
Int Garlett, Lang, Williamson, McKay
So EB you have those details as fact on what we offered and what Port offered?
You also have as fact that Essendon offered more than we did?
I am not saying this is impossible, I am saying I find it very unlikely that people on the forum here are privy to enough detail to determine what our final offers were.
I totally agree MIO. You would never know what clubs offer. The media wouldn't neccessarily know either.
From an old AFL post:
The 2km Time Trial
What should you run
5:30 - 6:00 min = Super Elite Athlete (Issac Smith/Mark Blicavs/Ed Curnow)
6:01 - 6:15 min = Elite AFL Player (Billy Hartung/Sam Gibson/Bradley Hill/Johnny Rayner/Patrick Ambrose/Tom Scully)
6:16 - 6:30 min = Slightly Better than average AFL Standard (Jamie Macmillan/Dan Hannebury/Ben McEvoy/Liam Shiels)
O'Brien ran 6.12 at the combine and will only get faster....elite already!
And a wicked left foot.
Granted there's more to footy than running but not a bad start for a kid who can play the gaME TOO!
So EB you have those details as fact on what we offered and what Port offered?
You also have as fact that Essendon offered more than we did?
I am not saying this is impossible, I am saying I find it very unlikely that people on the forum here are privy to enough detail to determine what our final offers were.
Was published in the Herald Sun what Port offered Rockliff, also Damian Barrett quoted our offer as better than Brisbanes on trade radio but less than Port.
The Trade Whisperer aka two phones Tony also had Port offering more than us......
I dont have fact on the Essendon offer with Smith or Saad but they were throwing big some big money around ie Stringer....Smith was ours at one stage but then Essendon
entered the bidding war and it all changed with Smith saying Essendon had the better rehab facilities which I read as BS and joined the dots that they offered more in light of the fact we have been
offering unders generally and the Bombers had overpaid for Stringer.....common knowledge the Bombers offered way more than Geelong and Stringer who was set to go to Geelong initially was swayed by the bigger money and closer location to his kids...
We have a history of offering unders and the Bombers were on a spending spree given Dodoro was under pressure to land players and was out to refute the fact the Bombers were not a destination club and who were not trade friendly.
They didnt land those players because their massage tables were more comfy than ours or Worsfold is a super coach.....I think its fair to presume the money was a big factor and in Stringers case was fact....
I totally agree MIO. You would never know what clubs offer. The media wouldn't necessarily know either.
There would be plenty in the media who would have the exact range of figures, because clubs and managers leak like sieves trying to get the better of each other.
Then players get on the turps and tell their mates, who get on the turps and tell their mates, etc., etc., etc..
Finally, most players have financial advisers, loans and lines of credit for investments, and those people get on the turps and leaks like sieves as well. It's just a matter of knowing who to ask and when. It's way too easy to get this info out there these days.
On field success and playing finals is also important for many.
I reckon players are like home buyers. There's a few who are in it for the long haul, who want to get their hands dirty, and renovate from the ground up. But most want the hard work done for them - they want one of those "not a cent to spend" jobbies.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-28/stats-leaders-in-every-category-in-2017
2 of the 3 Carlton players on that list are Doch and Gibbs.
What do I expect from the club ? Less than I did 5 minutes ago.
Sigh
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-28/stats-leaders-in-every-category-in-2017
2 of the 3 Carlton players on that list are Doch and Gibbs.
What do I expect from the club ? Less than I did 5 minutes ago.
Sigh
All that means is that other players have the opportunity to step up ...
All that means is that other players have the opportunity to step up ...
No doubt, and I hope they grab those opportunities with both hands. We need so much stepping up we could open a Bunnings.
No doubt, and I hope they grab those opportunities with both hands. We need so much stepping up we could open a Bunnings.
Not necessarily Paul.
Have a look at the categories our players led in. Do we really want to be the best at kicking backwards?
I expect a rapid rise up the ladder without excuse!
We've hung some pretty good coaches over the last 1-1/2 decades without any regard for injuries or external influences.
BB should not get any slack, he's no longer a 1st year coach, if he was a player he'd be coming up for contract renewal and would have to show progress and form to earn a contract.
I know it's cold, but it's reality!
I expect a rapid rise up the ladder without excuse!
We've hung some pretty good coaches over the last 1-1/2 decades without any regard for injuries or external influences.
BB should not get any slack, he's no longer a 1st year coach, if he was a player he'd be coming up for contract renewal and would have to show progress and form to earn a contract.
I know it's cold, but it's reality!
I thought the whole point of the "new Carlton" was to learn from past mistakes and avoid them, in all areas, including sacking / appointments of coaches. I'd be extremely disappointed if Bolton starts to wear serious heat in his 3rd year. We're still miles off the pace.
I've said this before - has the "old Carlton" cancer been excised, or is it simply laying dormant ?
I expect a rapid rise up the ladder without excuse!
We've hung some pretty good coaches over the last 1-1/2 decades without any regard for injuries or external influences.
BB should not get any slack, he's no longer a 1st year coach, if he was a player he'd be coming up for contract renewal and would have to show progress and form to earn a contract.
I know it's cold, but it's reality!
I expect the same thing, i'm just not sure if it will be this year.
....or at least not from R1.
None of us us really know, BB included.
How many of thw young blokes will take that 'next step' in becoming very good to elite players consistently?
Who knows, but there are truly plenty who could....
Charlie, SPS, Weiters, Plow, Marchbank, Dow, Pickett, Garlett, Harry Mc, Kennedy and (even) Lang can all become wow players....
And no doubt I've overlooked a few eg Willo.....
After all, Crippa exploded onto the scene at age 20.
How many 'go bang' will determine where we finish.
One certainty is that those who could go bang, in number, exceeds most clubs.
So Paul P, no we aren't that far off it.
None of us us really know, BB included.
How many of thw young blokes will take that 'next step' in becoming very good to elite players consistently?
Who knows, but there are truly plenty who could....
Charlie, SPS, Weiters, Plow, Marchbank, Dow, Pickett, Garlett, Harry Mc, Kennedy and (even) Lang can all become wow players....
And no doubt I've overlooked a few eg Willo.....
After all, Crippa exploded onto the scene at age 20.
How many 'go bang' will determine where we finish.
One certainty is that those who could go bang, in number, exceeds most clubs.
So Paul P, no we aren't that far off it.
Agree FB. We seem to have a lot of latent talent on board now and we could just see the beginnings of something really special next year. I'm quietly quite excited about it tbh.
None of us us really know, BB included.
How many of thw young blokes will take that 'next step' in becoming very good to elite players consistently?
Who knows, but there are truly plenty who could....
Charlie, SPS, Weiters, Plow, Marchbank, Dow, Pickett, Garlett, Harry Mc, Kennedy and (even) Lang can all become wow players....
And no doubt I've overlooked a few eg Willo.....
After all, Crippa exploded onto the scene at age 20.
How many 'go bang' will determine where we finish.
One certainty is that those who could go bang, in number, exceeds most clubs.
So Paul P, no we aren't that far off it.
It would be great if all those players became guns but the reality is we will be doing well if half of them do.
I expect a rapid rise up the ladder without excuse!
We've hung some pretty good coaches over the last 1-1/2 decades without any regard for injuries or external influences.
BB should not get any slack, he's no longer a 1st year coach, if he was a player he'd be coming up for contract renewal and would have to show progress and form to earn a contract.
I know it's cold, but it's reality!
It's not cold or reality it's just screwing stupid.
What we did in the last decade and half was a complete and utter waste of money and time.
Who would be stupid enough to repeat it, just because it has happened before, and with zero success.
I don't know whether BB will make it, but it's way to early to tell.
We have just lost 2 of our senior players, and already had a very young side.
I presume common sense will prevail
It would be great if all those players became guns but the reality is we will be doing well if half of them do.
Absolutely
That would put us well above average development if half of those players went on to become guns.
But it is nice to still dream about the possibilities :D
None of us us really know, BB included.
How many of thw young blokes will take that 'next step' in becoming very good to elite players consistently?
Who knows, but there are truly plenty who could....
Charlie, SPS, Weiters, Plow, Marchbank, Dow, Pickett, Garlett, Harry Mc, Kennedy and (even) Lang can all become wow players....
And no doubt I've overlooked a few eg Willo.....
After all, Crippa exploded onto the scene at age 20.
How many 'go bang' will determine where we finish.
One certainty is that those who could go bang, in number, exceeds most clubs.
So Paul P, no we aren't that far off it.
flyboy, your enthusiasm and optimism for the current regime appears to emanate from a well that never runs dry. In a way I wish I was more like you. But I simply don't see it. A team that finishes 14th and 16th, with 2 great senior players gone or out injured, with a whole bunch of kids who got of nappies 5 minutes ago, is, IMO, a team that is miles away. Latent potential is precisely that. Nothing more, and nothing less. There's nothing that I can see that indicates we will move up the ladder much next season. But I remain, as always, hopeful.
Paul, the well that never runs dry is a healthier place than the slough of despond! ;)
Paul, the well that never runs dry is a healthier place than the slough of despond! ;)
cookie, I've never heard that one, but I like it. Will have to commit it to memory.
It would be great if all those players became guns but the reality is we will be doing well if half of them do.
Agreed, but if even 50% or more approach that level, then we'll have a dynasty on our hands.
Especially given we'll add Wines and/or Kelly in the next 1-2 years.... ;)
It's all well and good to dream, but this is all pie in the sky stuff. The % of AFL/VFL listed players who play 100 or more games is small. I don't remember the number, but I think it's between 5 and 10%. That's basically 5 seasons on an AFL list, give or take for injuries, finals, suspensions. form, etc.
To have half of those named get to that point would an incredible historical anomaly.
Have to agree with flyboy and cookie. Looking forward with more hope than usual. For me ladder position is not the point - improved competitiveness, and visible player development is.
1. This year the blow-outs were fewer and smaller - even at the end of the season.
2. The number of young players _contributing_ at AFL level is so much better than in the pre-BB days.
3. The hit rate on players _contributing_ after coming from other clubs is easily better than pre-SOS, but also appears to be better than the hit rate for drafted players - a new, welcome net positive.
4. For #2 and #3 to be happening we now have to have a more than functional recruiting and development.
5. No sign of any "fat head" rumblings getting any traction at PP - at all. Communications are low key professional and positive. The change of CEO could have been handled better, but no organisation gets everything right.
So I am looking forward to watching the individual players develop and function as a team even better this season. In past seasons hopes were focused on one or two players making a difference - big surprise it did not.
Now with a whole crew of new and young players who have already shown "baby steps up", this season looks like a positive experience as a supporter, despite loosing Gibbs and Docherty, but may not see much change in the ladder position.
It's all well and good to dream, but this is all pie in the sky stuff. The % of AFL/VFL listed players who play 100 or more games is small. I don't remember the number, but I think it's between 5 and 10%. That's basically 5 seasons on an AFL list, give or take for injuries, finals, suspensions. form, etc.
To have half of those named get to that point would an incredible historical anomaly.
No, I disagree, the stats clearly show that higher draft picks - on average - have significantly longer - and better - careers than the lower/rookie picks...
most of those blokes have already shown they can cut it at AFL senior level and have an influence - they're not exactly Nick Graham types!
No, I disagree, the stats clearly show that higher draft picks - on average - have significantly longer - and better - careers than the lower/rookie picks...
most of those blokes have already shown they can cut it at AFL senior level and have an influence - they're not exactly Nick Graham types!
You're right about the 1st rounders, but I still think expecting half of them to play 100 or more games in unrealistic.
One of the differences between you and I is that you seem to come to conclusions about players much quicker than me. I would need to see at least 1 more season of the guys from previous drafts to see if they can endure. Plenty of players have flash-in-the-pan good games. Doing that consistently, year in year out, is much harder.
You're right about the 1st rounders, but I still think expecting half of them to play 100 or more games in unrealistic.
One of the differences between you and I is that you seem to come to conclusions about players much quicker than me. I would need to see at least 1 more season of the guys from previous drafts to see if they can endure. Plenty of players have flash-in-the-pan good games. Doing that consistently, year in year out, is much harder.
Paul as you would have heard ad nauseam, one of the things SOS is looking for in players is character. I dont see flash in the pan from the young blokes we have drafted under SOS/Bolts, I see blokes who can endure who will only get better as they play more games together. Having said that, I respect the fact you need more time and see more to be convinced.
Paul as you would have heard ad nauseam, one of the things SOS is looking for in players is character. I dont see flash in the pan from the young blokes we have drafted under SOS/Bolts, I see blokes who can endure who will only get better as they play more games together. Having said that, I respect the fact you need more time and see more to be convinced.
I guess when I said flash in the pan, I meant showing moments of class or brilliance, or a consistency of good skill level / good decision making. The sort of qualities that win matches. I wasn't really referring to grit or fight or ticker. The players this year showed plenty of these last 3 qualities, I don't deny that.
Call me sceptical but I am still to be convinced that SPS will be 100 game, high output player, or that Jack Silvagni will be in our best 22 in 18 months, or that Zac Fisher can match his determination with consistent impact games, or that David Cunningham will reward the faith that SOS showed in him at the draft table.
They all might hit the mark and be A or B Graders but as it stands at the moment, it is developing potential that they offer.
Call me sceptical but I am still to be convinced that SPS will be 100 game, high output player, or that Jack Silvagni will be in our best 22 in 18 months, or that Zac Fisher can match his determination with consistent impact games, or that David Cunningham will reward the faith that SOS showed in him at the draft table.
They all might hit the mark and be A or B Graders but as it stands at the moment, it is developing potential that they offer.
Fair enough I guess. Personally, when I look at SPS highlights, I think "magic". He does stuff that is Rioli or Betts like. I even see glimpses of McLeod (who I personally rate along with the late Maurice Rioli as the 2 best indigenous players I have watched play the game).
SOS brings a passion that stems for a genuine love for the club, something you cant train or teach. He will be a beauty when he grows up, its in the genes.
Little Zac and Cunners I am also not sure about but am prepared to give them time, especially Zac. He has some zip, mongrel and beautiful left foot.
Ill say one thing about Cunners, I think he lacks confidence. He doesnt seem to think he belongs, Polson seems the same to me. That can be rectified by the coaching group (see Liam Jones). I think they have the tools to make it.
Just on Cam Polson, he kind of reminds me of a young Marc Murphy in the way he runs at times. Hope he can get a sustained run at it for Northern, because he could turn out to be a player. Like a lot of these guys, they just need time to build their confidence.
Just on Cam Polson, he kind of reminds me of a young Marc Murphy in the way he runs at times. Hope he can get a sustained run at it for Northern, because he could turn out to be a player. Like a lot of these guys, they just need time to build their confidence.
Agreed, he already seems to show more than the likes of Graham or Lamb at the same stage of their career. Looks smart, I suppose the question remains about his durability at AFL level, but if he gets things right he could be a 200 game player.
Our next Wright!
Watch a tape of our win vs Hawks last year, Fisher cut Hawthorn up. Still needs 10 kg, gym should be his main residence for this preseason.
Watch a tape of our win vs Hawks last year, Fisher cut Hawthorn up. Still needs 10 kg, gym should be his main residence for this preseason.
Interestingly, from possibly our best win of the year, the 3 highest ranked Super Coach players were Docherty, Boekhorst and Gibbs!!! ,
I expect:
- unity
- connection with members and past greats
- stay the course of the rebuild
- increased membership and $$$
- commitment and competitiveness
- a few pleasant surprises (I.e. sign Mr Wines or Sloane, knock off a top4 team ;))
- improved player development
- a few wins and no thrashings
- positive media showing
Go Blues
11 wins, maybe more....
In 2018 I would be expecting a general improvement in most of the squad. A professionalism to be able to take the club further into the future, a club showing a unity & understanding where they are at and having the application in management & leadership to carry out the process
In 2018 I would be expecting a general improvement in most of the squad. A professionalism to be able to take the club further into the future, a club showing a unity & understanding where they are at and having the application in management & leadership to carry out the process
Nicely done ????
We are looking at groundhog day for 2018.
Competitive, will lose more than we win, be in the middle six at best and could sneak finals but will just lack that bit of class to make finals. 9-12 is where we'll finish unless we really develope well this off season.
We had a good run of injury this year and traditionally players that have struggled played well. We won't get that lucky again IMHO.
Looks like the experts agree.
The Blues will have a good year if …
Their experienced players have injury-free seasons and their youngsters continue to make incremental improvement. Having lost Sam Docherty for the season and traded Bryce Gibbs to Adelaide, they need skipper Marc Murphy, Kade Simpson, Dale Thomas and Matthew Kreuzer to provide leadership and guidance.
They're in trouble if …
Matthew Kreuzer is injured for a long period. While the Blues have solid back-ups in Andrew Phillips and Matthew Lobbe and Levi Casboult helps out with his fair share, the big-hearted ruckman has become so pivotal to Carlton's fortunes. He finally has got his body right and they need him around the ball and in attack.
Pass mark
Despite Sam Docherty's absence and Bryce Gibbs' loss, the Blues should be aiming for 6-8 victories, given that they won six last season, lost eight by under four goals and were competitive in most games. They need their better and more experienced players to stay on the field as their youngsters improve.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-03-13/season-preview-carlton
Pretty obvious for us. The only variables to be if we do well, and whether or not the rest of the competition have one of those years where they arent as competitive.
It would be great if we go into the last 4 rounds still in the mix for top 8. Even if we don't make it we should be coming out of this year with a realistic expectation of finals in 2019.
One of the main causes for optimism is the number of champion retirees from other clubs (and none from ours). The impact of losing those types can be more significant than anybody expects. St Kilda and WC in particular will be dramatically weakened.
Scott Thompson
Jesse White
Jobe Watson
James Kelly
Brent Stanton
Zac Dawson
Garrick Ibbotson
Andrew Mackie
Tom Lonergan
Tendai Mzungu
Shane Mumford
Steve Johnson
Ty Vickery
Josh Gibson
Andrew Swallow
Nathan Krakouer
Angus Monfries
Chris Yarran
Ivan Maric
Leigh Montagna
Sean Dempster
Nick Riewoldt
Jeremy Laidler
Matt Priddis
Sam Mitchell
Sam Butler
Drew Petrie
Travis Cloke
Matthew Boyd
Robert Murphy
Kurt Tippett
Reckon the Cats backline will become a problem for them. Harry T. is no spring chicken either, now - 32 this year....
Reckon the Cats backline will become a problem for them. Harry T. is no spring chicken either, now - 32 this year....
Agree ...Henderson and Touhy are no good at defending either.... ;)
I think Tuohy basically has one game style that he can excel at, if you stop him linking and running his weakness is body on body for any opponent his size or larger.
Henderson has the same problems at Geelong he had at Carlton, when the going gets tough he output becomes highly variable, it's like he picks and choses when to go with no consistent what for! That tells me it's all in his head!
When you see guys like Plowman, Marchbank, Weitering, SPS, Garlett and even Rowe(Before his injury) cracking in off HB 100% of the time, you really notice what Tuohy and Henderson lack!
I think Tuohy basically has one game style that he can excel at, if you stop him linking and running his weakness is body on body for any opponent his size or larger.
Henderson has the same problems at Geelong he had at Carlton, when the going gets tough he output becomes highly variable, it's like he picks and choses when to go with no consistent what for! That tells me it's all in his head!
When you see guys like Plowman, Marchbank, Weitering, SPS, Garlett and even Rowe(Before his injury) cracking in off HB 100% of the time, you really notice what Tuohy and Henderson lack!
Anyone that is physical and can take a mark will trouble those two....Touhy was often outmarked, outbodied by smaller players and Henderson likes being the 3rd tall defender but doesnt enjoy taking the Charlie Dixon types...
Reckon the Cats backline will become a problem for them. Harry T. is no spring chicken either, now - 32 this year....
With their midfield, they don't need a backline.
Dangerfield bung Hammy, Ablett on one leg at 34 after an interrupted preseason... if they ain't on the park Kruds the Cats will come back to the pack very rapidly.
WC losing Priddis, Mitchell, Petrie and Lecras is stuffed... Naitanui would be miles off his best. They're going to struggle.
St Kilda and even Essendon might find losing those 3 long term players at once will bite.
Dangerfield bung Hammy, Ablett on one leg at 34 after an interrupted preseason... if they ain't on the park Kruds the Cats will come back to the pack very rapidly.
Ive also heard Selwoods foot (rushed back for finals last year) still aint quite either.
Anyone that is physical and can take a mark will trouble those two....Touhy was often outmarked, outbodied by smaller players and Henderson likes being the 3rd tall defender but doesnt enjoy taking the Charlie Dixon types...
Or "beep beep" runs like the proverbial Road Runner..... or moves like *Fred Astaire....... ;)
* young people Google alert
Looking at the pre-season, opposition injury lists and our current situation, we should be a very good chance to win 4 out of the 5 first games this season and that should be our minimum aim.
From then on we should go at about 50/50 for 12 wins in total, which would put us around the middle of the ladder and a pass mark.
Any less is a fail, any more a bonus!
I have no idea how these media nutters think we'll only have 6 wins!
btw., Wet Toast might still be without Kennedy, the rumor I've heard is he's having some inflammation issues after doing a mini pre-season following ankle surgery.
I expect us to hit more targets each week.
I expect us to kick more goals.
I expect us to play like we want to win.
I expect us to stop the oppositions' best players more often.
I expect us to have out better players be more consistent.
I expect us to improve.
Bulldogs just lost another player, that means we should target 5 from 5!
I expect us to hit more targets each week.
I expect us to kick more goals.
I expect us to play like we want to win.
I expect us to stop the oppositions' best players more often.
I expect us to have out better players be more consistent.
I expect us to improve.
I expect ALL players to run hard both ways
I expect ALL players to apply pressure
I expect ALL players to tackle hard
I expect the party to end for Nthmond, in about 3 days and 9hrs from the time of this post! ;)
I expect the party to end for Nthmond, in about 3 days and 9hrs from the time of this post! ;)
Would be our greatest home and away win ever.
Would be our greatest home and away win ever.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/high-five-series-carltons-five-best-home-and-away-wins-of-the-modern-era-20151225-glv1aw.html
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/high-five-series-carltons-five-best-home-and-away-wins-of-the-modern-era-20151225-glv1aw.html
Ironically it's the ones that got away that stick in my mind, like that day at home when Fitzy got pinged for time-wasting!
Ironically it's the ones that got away that stick in my mind, like that day at home when Fitzy got pinged for time-wasting!
I don't remember the game, but it was R20 1981, v Essendon. There's a Youtube video I think.
I don't remember the game, but it was R20 1981, v Essendon. There's a Youtube video I think.
I'll watch it again if at anytime I find myself warming to CheatsFC or any of their associated scum!
I took a mate(footy associate) to that game, he was in town for a junior footy carnival and was a welded on CheatsFC supporter. He never lets me forget about it. I remind my CheatsFC friends that the very same kid went on to play AFL and win a Brownlow, but not for them! It's my only happy memory of that day, and maybe him biting into one of our clubs famous half-frozen pies! ;D
Lists like this are for the chattering masses. My only problem is when did the modern era start? Footy has changed significantly since 1975 - I wouldn't consider that the modern era (I was 4 at the time!), particularly as it wasn't fully professional.
If we moved the modern era to the 21st century, getting 5 best wins (with significance) could be difficult...
I expect to do better as we can't really do any worse than the last few years.
Well I was wrong.
Well I was wrong.
Wish I was. But this was on the cards. IMO
We are looking at groundhog day for 2018.
Competitive, will lose more than we win, be in the middle six at best and could sneak finals but will just lack that bit of class to make finals. 9-12 is where we'll finish unless we really develope well this off season.
We had a good run of injury this year and traditionally players that have struggled played well. We won't get that lucky again IMHO.
I was similarly off the mark, but I wasnt anticipating what we have ended up with. We effectively havent even treaded water this year.
I think the competition has taken us a bit more seriously and that has been a contributing factor.
I think the competition has taken us a bit more seriously and that has been a contributing factor.
Yes, this may well be part of it.
Having some opposition coaches announce us last season as a young team on the rise probably ensured the rest are motivated to put the boots in!
Certainly someone like CheatsFC would be heavily Sheedy motivated to rip our sails, which is ironic given we defeated them, but we get to remind them of that until next season! If only they miss the finals by percentage! ;D
Yes, this may well be part of it.
Having some opposition coaches announce us last season as a young team on the rise probably ensured the rest are motivated to put the boots in!
Certainly someone like CheatsFC would be heavily Sheedy motivated to rip our sails, which is ironic given we defeated them, but we get to remind them of that until next season! If only they miss the finals by percentage! ;D
We're a young team.
Get on top early, then put your feet up look to next week as its game over.
I believe that at times in 2018 there are going to be a lot of frustrated Carlton supporters and I fear that one or more of the idiotic factions of the club will pull the trigger and thwart the rebuild before it is finished.
The bottom line is that losing Gibbs and Docherty is going to cost us big time. Those two were huge contributors in wins last year (e.g. Gibbs vs Suns) last year and in Tennis parlance, we have to defend those points for starters just to square the ledger. Some of our wins in 2017 were against very highly rated sides and repeating that would be a great effort.
The list is a step closer to where the club wants it to be but aside from Kennedy and Garlett I can't see any of the draftees contributing in a meaningful way for at least a couple of seasons. The future-thinking drafting is a clear sign of staying the stated course, but does not address immediate needs. For example, we have a Grand Canyon-sized chasm forward of centre to fill. I am concerned that other clubs have been viewed as "destination" clubs and have advanced on us simply by the calibre of players they could attract.
As for game style and general play I expect greatly improved ball movement or questions should be asked. The JLT series is going to give a better guide in this area. I assume that Bolton will have learnt from some of the mistakes of this year e.g playing excessively young sides or inappropriate selections.
The silver lining is next year's draft. Kids like Jack Lukosious and Ivan Rankine are rated as once in a generation type players.
"Prophetic" words if I ever saw them....
"Prophetic" words if I ever saw them....
Unbelievable. Even predicted the draft prospects we are discussing now.
Is the Prof connected with the club, he is so on the money it sounds like this season has been completely expected?!?
"Prophetic" words if I ever saw them....
Well done Proff, respect.
The injury woes that beset Carlton in 2018 are almost unprecedented.
Docherty, Murphy, Lang, Pickett, Marchbank, Plowman, Rowe (on come back), ASOS, Willo, Byrne, Casboult, Kennedy, Kreuzer. No doubt there are a few others.
Most of those blokes would be walk up starts if fit....
And we kept making the amateur hour mistake of bringing blokes back into the team before injuries were (fully) overcome and/or without a hit out in the 2s.....
And don't get me started on the blunder bus that is the Match Committee!