The squad for the third JLT game has been named with three players to drop out before the game:
1 – Jack Silvagni
3 – Marc Murphy
4 – Bryce Gibbs
6 – Kade Simpson
8 – Matthew Kreuzer
9 – Patrick Cripps
10 – Harry McKay
11 – Sam Kerridge
13 – Jed Lamb
15 – Sam Docherty
16 – Billie Smedts
17 – Sam Rowe
20 – Lachie Plowman
22 – Caleb Marchbank
23 – Jacob Weitering
24 – Rhys Palmer
26 – Harrison Macreadie
27 – Dennis Armfield
28 – David Cuningham
29 – Cameron Polson
33 – Jarrod Pickett
35 – Edward Curnow
39 – Dale Thomas
41 – Levi Casboult
43 – Simon White
44 – Alex Silvagni
46 – Matthew Wright
Buckley and Charlie Curnow are unavailable because of injury and SPS will return through the NBs.
It seems that Harry McKay, Harrison Macreadie, Cameron Polson, Jarrod Pickett and Alex Silvagni are in contention for round 1 (Marchbank is a lock). Liam Sumner is on the outer (did he have a full pre-season?) and we're persevering with Daisy ::)
The squad for the third JLT game has been named with three players to drop out before the game:
1 – Jack Silvagni
3 – Marc Murphy
4 – Bryce Gibbs
6 – Kade Simpson
8 – Matthew Kreuzer
9 – Patrick Cripps
10 – Harry McKay
11 – Sam Kerridge
13 – Jed Lamb
15 – Sam Docherty
16 – Billie Smedts
17 – Sam Rowe
20 – Lachie Plowman
22 – Caleb Marchbank
23 – Jacob Weitering
24 – Rhys Palmer
26 – Harrison Macreadie
27 – Dennis Armfield
28 – David Cuningham
29 – Cameron Polson
33 – Jarrod Pickett
35 – Edward Curnow
39 – Dale Thomas
41 – Levi Casboult
43 – Simon White
44 – Alex Silvagni
46 – Matthew Wright
Buckley and Charlie Curnow are unavailable because of injury and SPS will return through the NBs.
It seems that Harry McKay, Harrison Macreadie, Cameron Polson, Jarrod Pickett and Alex Silvagni are in contention for round 1 (Marchbank is a lock). Liam Sumner is on the outer (did he have a full pre-season?) and we're persevering with Daisy ::)
Sumner was injured early in the NBs game on Saturday last.
Doesn't look good for Boekhorst or Graham. Hope Alex Silvagni plays.
Hope Alex Silvagni plays.
So do i....partially because i want to see everyone complain when he isn't up to the standard they'd pumped him up to be in their own minds.
People have already jumped off Smedts and Palmer. Might as well add another one to the list. ::)
Sumner was injured early in the NBs game on Saturday last.
Doesn't look good for Boekhorst or Graham. Hope Alex Silvagni plays.
Bad luck for the lad!
So do i....partially because i want to see everyone complain when he isn't up to the standard they'd pumped him up to be in their own minds.
People have already jumped off Smedts and Palmer. Might as well add another one to the list. ::)
Surely he can hold down a spot in the backline to release Jacob Weitering to play more time forward this week :o :o :o
Surely he can hold down a spot in the backline to release Jacob Weitering to play more time forward this week :o :o :o
Rowe, Plowman and Marchbank can hold down the backline. Weitering can play forward then.
We don't need A. Silvagni.
Bolton did say that he will play Weitering at both ends
So do i....partially because i want to see everyone complain when he isn't up to the standard they'd pumped him up to be in their own minds.
People have already jumped off Smedts and Palmer. Might as well add another one to the list. ::)
I was never on Smedts and Palmer.....Alex Silvagni will play Round 1 IMO and I reckon Weitering and Rowe might do some interchanging down forward as part of that plan...
I expect the three imports above to deliver reasonable results at times but nothing special....
I was never on Smedts and Palmer.....Alex Silvagni will play Round 1 IMO and I reckon Weitering and Rowe might do some interchanging down forward as part of that plan...
I expect the three imports above to deliver reasonable results at times but nothing special....
I'm not convinced that Alex Silvagni will be upgraded. He provides insurance against one of our injury prone players going down and, touch wood, they're holding up so far.
Smedts and Palmer aren't champions but they're serviceable. I'd have both well ahead of Thomas, Boekhorst, Buckley and Graham - unfortunately.
I'm not convinced that Alex Silvagni will be upgraded. He provides insurance against one of our injury prone players going down and, touch wood, they're holding up so far.
Smedts and Palmer aren't champions but they're serviceable. I'd have both well ahead of Thomas, Boekhorst, Buckley and Graham - unfortunately.
Yep that quartet are in their last season at Carlton unless there is some divine intervention....
Smedts and Palmer are stop gaps only. They will get games while the youngsters develop and are probably better options than some who went last year and who will go this year.
So do i....partially because i want to see everyone complain when he isn't up to the standard they'd pumped him up to be in their own minds.
People have already jumped off Smedts and Palmer. Might as well add another one to the list. ::)
I don't get this :-\
While I may disagree with aspects of the club's list management from time to time, every player on our list has my full support even if their success shows that my football judgement is awry.
Alex Silvagni, Smedts and Palmer were added to our list for a reason and, from what I've seen of the latter two, they've met expectations. I'd prefer to see Alex play out the season in the NBs but, if needed, he'll do his job.
I don't get this :-\
While I may disagree with aspects of the club's list management from time to time, every player on our list has my full support even if their success shows that my football judgement is awry.
Alex Silvagni, Smedts and Palmer were added to our list for a reason and, from what I've seen of the latter two, they've met expectations. I'd prefer to see Alex play out the season in the NBs but, if needed, he'll do his job.
Bingo.
Alex Silvagni will be a good inclusion and contribute his part and steady the youngsters, down back.
He'll suprise a few and should play round 1.
Alex Silvagni will be a good inclusion and contribute his part and steady the youngsters, down back.
He'll suprise a few and should play round 1.
Here's hoping :)
I don't get this :-\
While I may disagree with aspects of the club's list management from time to time, every player on our list has my full support even if their success shows that my football judgement is awry.
Alex Silvagni, Smedts and Palmer were added to our list for a reason and, from what I've seen of the latter two, they've met expectations. I'd prefer to see Alex play out the season in the NBs but, if needed, he'll do his job.
Let me elaborate.
Right now, Alex Silvagni is a bright new shiny toy in an unopened box. Our imaginations are running wild with all his tricks of the trade. We've all read about what he CAN do. Since he is still in his box, we are yet to find out what he cannot do.
He will remain as 'the great white hope' (as our other recruits were - in which most automatically made our best 22) and will be called for as an in each and every week we lose as a fix.
Then, finally we take him out of the box and play him. Then we see him for who he is, warts and all. Maybe he does ok, maybe not. But i doubt he'll be able to live up to everyones expectations of him.
The sooner we take him out of the box, the sooner we can see he's just 'malibu stacy with a new hat' and we can move on.
Not following??
See Jaksch in 2016.
Rowe will probably help in the ruck against man mountain Sandi with Phillips and Gorringe out. Wouldn't want MK to do it all himself.
So do i....partially because i want to see everyone complain when he isn't up to the standard they'd pumped him up to be in their own minds.
People have already jumped off Smedts and Palmer. Might as well add another one to the list. ::)
Not quite sure what standard you're referring to - most on here just want him to be a useful contributor - some are more sure of this eventuating than others. Even the most eternal of optimists on here aren't expecting him to be a star in our team.
The season hasn't even started yet. Perhaps we should give him a chance first.
Let me elaborate.
Right now, Alex Silvagni is a bright new shiny toy in an unopened box. Our imaginations are running wild with all his tricks of the trade. We've all read about what he CAN do. Since he is still in his box, we are yet to find out what he cannot do.
He will remain as 'the great white hope' (as our other recruits were - in which most automatically made our best 22) and will be called for as an in each and every week we lose as a fix.
Then, finally we take him out of the box and play him. Then we see him for who he is, warts and all. Maybe he does ok, maybe not. But i doubt he'll be able to live up to everyones expectations of him.
The sooner we take him out of the box, the sooner we can see he's just 'malibu stacy with a new hat' and we can move on.
Not following??
See Jaksch in 2016.
I can't really see any link between Jaksch and Silvagni. Jaksch was a speculative trade with long term potential and considerable doubts about his ability to play AFL. Nothing has really changed although the doubts are mounting and the potential is diminishing.
Alex Silvagni is a mature age rookie added to our list to provide cover in the event that we lose a defender to a long term injury. While a couple of posters think that he will be elevated to allow Weitering to go forward, I doubt whether he'll play a game at senior level. If he does get the opportunity, I'm sure that he will perform adequately, as his career with Fremantle suggests.
I couldn't give a flying fudge at a rolling donut about people's expectations but I doubt whether anyone sees him as the 'great white hope'. He's a good ordinary footballer who I think will fill a short term need. I'd love him to prove me wrong by playing 50 games.
Let me elaborate.
Right now, Alex Silvagni is a bright new shiny toy in an unopened box. Our imaginations are running wild with all his tricks of the trade. We've all read about what he CAN do. Since he is still in his box, we are yet to find out what he cannot do.
He will remain as 'the great white hope' (as our other recruits were - in which most automatically made our best 22) and will be called for as an in each and every week we lose as a fix.
Then, finally we take him out of the box and play him. Then we see him for who he is, warts and all. Maybe he does ok, maybe not. But i doubt he'll be able to live up to everyones expectations of him.
The sooner we take him out of the box, the sooner we can see he's just 'malibu stacy with a new hat' and we can move on.
Not following??
See Jaksch in 2016.
Alex S was dumped by Freo so he is more of a used toy in a supermarket recycle bag thats been left outside an op shop, nothing shiny about him...dont think there are too many high expectations of him other than steady the ship down back when required and plug some leaks
Palmer was offloaded for salary cap reasons if you believe the rumours at the time and Smedts was a busted up truck that had been in the Cats backyard and was off to the wreckers if we had not been interested.
If we get some decent games out of them its a bonus, if we get nothing then its disappointing but no tragedy...
Alex Silvagni - meh, but good luck to the bloke. Clearly can play the game at the highest level....but would have preferred other in the draft.
Palmer - will be very good for us, give the bloke more than 2 pre season games. Got picked in the PF team for GWS FFS.
Smedts - who knows, could be a 150 game player or a 10 game player for the Blues. The Cats' rated him highly but rumours I heard (or read perhaps?) was that he liked to party pretty hard....and he's had some really rotten luck injury wise.....
Problem I have is that we traded Touhy for an underweight pick and a player, who ended up being Smedts because Caddy, Lang, Cockatoo et al. were either not available or told us to F off. Thus, there is some weight of expectation for Smedts to balance out the deal, so yes I do have a problem if he ends up another list clogger. Seriously, I'd only have picked Smedts before about 2 blokes from their list and we got stiffed.
Alex Silvagni will be an honest contributor and help when we get injuries, I think he will be better than people might suggest. I think he will certainly keep the pressure on Simon White who I see him potentially replacing.
As for Smedts, a couple of games I saw him in for Geelong he looked a bit of a goer but like all players needs a run at it and some confidence. We'll know by mid year what he has, and I think that will hold for his career. If he can stay injury free and get a run at it he might be something - remember Ed Curnows early career many wrote him off, he was fumbly and didn't hit targets, got caught with it etc. Smedts might end up being a classier version and if so that's value to the club.
Really hoping that Macreadie comes on, he really could be the smokey but early days.
Alex Silvagni and Simon White will give our team similar.
Similar size, and similar ability.
If his name wasn't Silvagni, he may not have even gotten the opportunity.
He will provide valuable experience to a young VFL side, and if required to play in the seniors, he will perform his role to the best of his ability, but lets not pretend that he is going to be a super valuable commodity.
Problem I have is that we traded Touhy for an underweight pick and a player, who ended up being Smedts because Caddy, Lang, Cockatoo et al. were either not available or told us to F off. Thus, there is some weight of expectation for Smedts to balance out the deal, so yes I do have a problem if he ends up another list clogger. Seriously, I'd only have picked Smedts before about 2 blokes from their list and we got stiffed.
Agree on Smedts... reminds me of the guy we got from Richmond when Grigg left.
Marchbank is part of the equation, and from all reports, looks like he can play.
Agree on Smedts... reminds me of the guy we got from Richmond when Grigg left.
Marchbank is part of the equation, and from all reports, looks like he can play.
you mean Andrew Collins ? If BS can stay on the park, he's better than Collins, that's for sure.
We don't want too much BS on the park though. Or off it for that matter.
Agree on Smedts... reminds me of the guy we got from Richmond when Grigg left.
Marchbank is part of the equation, and from all reports, looks like he can play.
Make no mistake, Smedts can play and play very well. Whether he'll do that at Carlton only time will tell, but it's last chance for him, no question....
The major concern about Smedts has to be that of injury, where his record is poor. If he can avoid that he could be quite a handy player for us over the next couple of years, imo.
Problem I have is that we traded Touhy for an underweight pick and a player, who ended up being Smedts because Caddy, Lang, Cockatoo et al. were either not available or told us to F off. Thus, there is some weight of expectation for Smedts to balance out the deal, so yes I do have a problem if he ends up another list clogger. Seriously, I'd only have picked Smedts before about 2 blokes from their list and we got stiffed.
Not sure I entirely agree Prof. The pick we got for Tuohy was crucial in getting Marchbank and Pickett and, from what I've seen of Marchbank, we seem to be ahead already. We also picked up Kerr with one of the picks we got for Tuohy and, while that may or may not bear fruit, it's a good news story.
Smedts, if he can stay on the park, will be a decent player.
Happy to hold fire on Smedts... but he looks really skinny for a guy who has been on a list for a few years.
Happy to hold fire on Smedts... but he looks really skinny for a guy who has been on a list for a few years.
They are all skinnier or more trim these days.
I'm holding fire G2C... at least till rd 1!
Talking about skinny.... i walked past Dylan Buckley today... I think he was walking with Gorringe ( tall bugger with long lochs??? ) & I was gobsmacked at how small he was.
I thought he'd putt on a bit in the upper body over the last few yrs but by God, he looked like a 14 y o boy ????
I'm not blind. I knew he wasnt a big kid but honestly didnt realise he was that small.
I've been a massive backer of this kid. I love his positive play. Attacking and using his run whenever possible. Trying to make something happen when it seems that everyone else around him has given up. Ive been hoping this kid would make it, especially as he's Jimmys boy too but after seeing him today, Ive gotta hand it to the kid... I dont know how he has lasted this long.
May he make it big time this yr. May he find whatever the hell it us that divides the great from the also rans. May he have a great long career at the mighty blues.
I'd be absolutely stoked for him...........
But unfortunately, I cannot see how a kid his size "could" make it????
I'm holding fire G2C... at least till rd 1!
Roger that Bear, good strategy. May I suggest you give it a few more rounds for good measure.
Talking about skinny.... i walked past Dylan Buckley today... I think he was walking with Gorringe ( tall bugger with long lochs??? ) & I was gobsmacked at how small he was.
I thought he'd putt on a bit in the upper body over the last few yrs but by God, he looked like a 14 y o boy ????
I'm not blind. I knew he wasnt a big kid but honestly didnt realise he was that small.
I've been a massive backer of this kid. I love his positive play. Attacking and using his run whenever possible. Trying to make something happen when it seems that everyone else around him has given up. Ive been hoping this kid would make it, especially as he's Jimmys boy too but after seeing him today, Ive gotta hand it to the kid... I dont know how he has lasted this long.
May he make it big time this yr. May he find whatever the hell it us that divides the great from the also rans. May he have a great long career at the mighty blues.
I'd be absolutely stoked for him...........
But unfortunately, I cannot see how a kid his size "could" make it????
I have commented on this before that the players look smaller in the flesh than they do on TV. You also need to remember that Jimmy was a skinny little bugger back in the 80s also. I had the privilege of attending the 1982 B&F where Jimmy won it in our premiership year. He could bloody well put the grog away let me tell you but he was definitely a skinny little bugger, but still tuff as nails.
I can't really see any link between Jaksch and Silvagni. Jaksch was a speculative trade with long term potential and considerable doubts about his ability to play AFL. Nothing has really changed although the doubts are mounting and the potential is diminishing.
Alex Silvagni is a mature age rookie added to our list to provide cover in the event that we lose a defender to a long term injury. While a couple of posters think that he will be elevated to allow Weitering to go forward, I doubt whether he'll play a game at senior level. If he does get the opportunity, I'm sure that he will perform adequately, as his career with Fremantle suggests.
I couldn't give a flying fudge at a rolling donut about people's expectations but I doubt whether anyone sees him as the 'great white hope'. He's a good ordinary footballer who I think will fill a short term need. I'd love him to prove me wrong by playing 50 games.
OK, one more time as it appears we have a lot of midgets on the site.
Everyone was over Jaksch prior to the start of the 2016 season. However, when we were going bad, he was kicking a few goals in the 2's. We continued to go bad. Yet he wasn't played. Every man and his dog was calling for him to be played because he HAD to be better than what we had playing for us. His stocks went up, simply because our teams had gone down.
Now, the moment comes and he is picked. Then he plays.....not that you could tell. He was pathetic. People realised why he wasn't picked in the first place and got over it.
I hope we play A. Silvagni now....so people see what he offers.....whatever that may be. Then people wont build him up to be somewhat of a saviour when he does get picked
OK, one more time as it appears we have a lot of midgets on the site.
Everyone was over Jaksch prior to the start of the 2016 season. However, when we were going bad, he was kicking a few goals in the 2's. We continued to go bad. Yet he wasn't played. Every man and his dog was calling for him to be played because he HAD to be better than what we had playing for us. His stocks went up, simply because our teams had gone down.
Now, the moment comes and he is picked. Then he plays.....not that you could tell. He was pathetic. People realised why he wasn't picked in the first place and got over it.
I hope we play A. Silvagni now....so people see what he offers.....whatever that may be. Then people wont build him up to be somewhat of a saviour when he does get picked
Can I ask a question Krudd? Who has nominated A Silvagni as a "saviour"? Every post I have read (but I may have a crucial one) nominates him as a gap filler if key defenders go down. After all, he is on the Rookie list.
OK, one more time as it appears we have a lot of midgets on the site.
Everyone was over Jaksch prior to the start of the 2016 season. However, when we were going bad, he was kicking a few goals in the 2's. We continued to go bad. Yet he wasn't played. Every man and his dog was calling for him to be played because he HAD to be better than what we had playing for us. His stocks went up, simply because our teams had gone down.
Now, the moment comes and he is picked. Then he plays.....not that you could tell. He was pathetic. People realised why he wasn't picked in the first place and got over it.
I hope we play A. Silvagni now....so people see what he offers.....whatever that may be. Then people wont build him up to be somewhat of a saviour when he does get picked
You're using a lot of emotive, poorly defined words that can mean whatever you want them to mean. You're inflating and exaggerating some particular comment you may have remembered in order to make a point that perhaps only a minority on here share. There isn't one person on here who thinks he's a saviour of anything, other than his own ar$e. He's on the rookie list for a reason. He will do something for us, whether it's in the NB's, being called up to the seniors to cover for injuries etc. If anyone on here believes anything different, they are very much in the minority.
OK, one more time as it appears we have a lot of midgets on the site.
Everyone was over Jaksch prior to the start of the 2016 season. However, when we were going bad, he was kicking a few goals in the 2's. We continued to go bad. Yet he wasn't played. Every man and his dog was calling for him to be played because he HAD to be better than what we had playing for us. His stocks went up, simply because our teams had gone down.
Now, the moment comes and he is picked. Then he plays.....not that you could tell. He was pathetic. People realised why he wasn't picked in the first place and got over it.
I hope we play A. Silvagni now....so people see what he offers.....whatever that may be. Then people wont build him up to be somewhat of a saviour when he does get picked
Some players lift when they play seniors, you cant just play the same losing players every week, Jaksch deserved a chance and yes he didnt take it but it was the right thing to do
IMO and try him out...no doubt he isnt a coaches favourite because he doesnt appear to give effort all the time but I'd like to see him played again before we dispose of him at years end.
Can I ask a question Krudd? Who has nominated A Silvagni as a "saviour"? Every post I have read (but I may have a crucial one) nominates him as a gap filler if key defenders go down. After all, he is on the Rookie list.
*sigh*
Nobody. Yet.
I'm looking into my crystal ball.
As i just got through saying, nobody thought anything of Jaksch at this stage of last year. However, when we start falling in a heap, we start looking for 'hope' in all the wrong places. My prediction, Silvagni will be that hope that people will turn to in 2017.
As many have just said, he is a gap filler. Agree. He is not a hope.
Just trying to temper peoples expectations early. Hope the club plays him early which will assist in tempering his expectations.
Some players lift when they play seniors, you cant just play the same losing players every week, Jaksch deserved a chance and yes he didnt take it but it was the right thing to do
IMO and try him out...no doubt he isnt a coaches favourite because he doesnt appear to give effort all the time but I'd like to see him played again before we dispose of him at years end.
I am not having a go at the playing of Jaksch. I in fact thought he should've been given at least another week in the 1's.
However, peoples expectations of what he would bring to the side were ridiculously high.
Talking about skinny.... i walked past Dylan Buckley today... I think he was walking with Gorringe ( tall bugger with long lochs??? ) & I was gobsmacked at how small he was.
I thought he'd putt on a bit in the upper body over the last few yrs but by God, he looked like a 14 y o boy ????
I'm not blind. I knew he wasnt a big kid but honestly didnt realise he was that small.
I've been a massive backer of this kid. I love his positive play. Attacking and using his run whenever possible. Trying to make something happen when it seems that everyone else around him has given up. Ive been hoping this kid would make it, especially as he's Jimmys boy too but after seeing him today, Ive gotta hand it to the kid... I dont know how he has lasted this long.
May he make it big time this yr. May he find whatever the hell it us that divides the great from the also rans. May he have a great long career at the mighty blues.
I'd be absolutely stoked for him...........
But unfortunately, I cannot see how a kid his size "could" make it????
Kade Simpson seemed to have found a way. I remember what they said when he started out and we had no choice but play him. In a different time he may not have gotten the chance to forge a career - now he is one of our best players consistently and has given fantastic service to the club.
OK, one more time as it appears we have a lot of midgets on the site.
Everyone was over Jaksch prior to the start of the 2016 season. However, when we were going bad, he was kicking a few goals in the 2's. We continued to go bad. Yet he wasn't played. Every man and his dog was calling for him to be played because he HAD to be better than what we had playing for us. His stocks went up, simply because our teams had gone down.
Now, the moment comes and he is picked. Then he plays.....not that you could tell. He was pathetic. People realised why he wasn't picked in the first place and got over it.
I hope we play A. Silvagni now....so people see what he offers.....whatever that may be. Then people wont build him up to be somewhat of a saviour when he does get picked
I don't recall more than a couple of people calling for Jaksch to be promoted. Those regular NBs watchers were expressing concern about his ability to to take the step up to AFL and many others doubted the wisdom of his recruitment from the word go.
Similarly, I don't think anyone is building Alex Silvagni up as a saviour, except perhaps in your own mind. Most folk realise that he is a delisted player who was given a rookie spot to provide cover in the event of a LTI. I suspect that he is down the rookie pecking order but I am more than happy with the idea of having an experienced, competent defender on our rookie list. I think that he will acquit himself quite well if he does get another opportunity at AFL level but he's a long way off best 22.
Now, repeat after me, "No-one thinks Alex Silvagni is a saviour!"
*sigh*
Nobody. Yet.
I'm looking into my crystal ball.
As i just got through saying, nobody thought anything of Jaksch at this stage of last year. However, when we start falling in a heap, we start looking for 'hope' in all the wrong places. My prediction, Silvagni will be that hope that people will turn to in 2017.
As many have just said, he is a gap filler. Agree. He is not a hope.
Just trying to temper peoples expectations early. Hope the club plays him early which will assist in tempering his expectations.
Well I reckon your crystall ball is a little hazy and you cant see in it properly. No one would look to Alex as anything more than a gap filler in a time of need, simple as that.
Kade Simpson seemed to have found a way. I remember what they said when he started out and we had no choice but play him. In a different time he may not have gotten the chance to forge a career - now he is one of our best players consistently and has given fantastic service to the club.
The only chance you have of making it at that size is to be absolutely elite in terms of your skills and decision making when you have the ball. You also have to be able to read the play well to be able to avoid big collisions wherever possible.
This is where someone like Simmo excels compared to others.
My knock on Buckley has always been that despite his endeavor, speed, courage and dare, his skills and decision making are ordinary at best. You are simply never going to make it at his size in his position unless you are excellent at setting up play with each possession you get.
The only chance you have of making it at that size is to be absolutely elite in terms of your skills and decision making when you have the ball. You also have to be able to read the play well to be able to avoid big collisions wherever possible.
This is where someone like Simmo excels compared to others.
My knock on Buckley has always been that despite his endeavor, speed, courage and dare, his skills and decision making are ordinary at best. You are simply never going to make it at his size in his position unless you are excellent at setting up play with each possession you get.
That is very true and we won't make the top four and beyond while our best 22 includes players who don't impact games.
Buckley is a cameo player at best and doesnt get enough of the footy and as suggested at this size you have to be very good with the ball when you do get it and he isnt...
That is very true and we won't make the top four and beyond while our best 22 includes players who don't impact games.
Does anyone think Buckley is even close to our best 22?
What is his position in any event?
Not a defender, not a mid, not a small forward.....
A poor man's Denis Armfield, on current form/ability?
And Army's a filler from here on in.
Buckley is a cameo player at best and doesnt get enough of the footy and as suggested at this size you have to be very good with the ball when you do get it and he isnt...
Romantically, being the son of a great and all, we'd love Bucks to make it but sadly he's another of our 'almost' blokes. Most have been sent packing and I suspect the last of them will leave PP at the end of this year.
Problem I have is that we traded Touhy for an underweight pick and a player, who ended up being Smedts because Caddy, Lang, Cockatoo et al. were either not available or told us to F off. Thus, there is some weight of expectation for Smedts to balance out the deal, so yes I do have a problem if he ends up another list clogger. Seriously, I'd only have picked Smedts before about 2 blokes from their list and we got stiffed.
Touhy = Marchbank + Pickett + Smedts.
You think we got stiffed?
What deal would you be happy with?
I am not having a go at the playing of Jaksch. I in fact thought he should've been given at least another week in the 1's.
However, peoples expectations of what he would bring to the side were ridiculously high.
Jaksch played 1 game in the forward line in a team that got flogged then dropped. Which was a shocking way to treat a player.
I'd have not recruited Smedts, Palmer nor Alex Silvagni. Armchair stuff here.
I'd have chased Mick Barlow, Matt deBoer and traded Bryce Gibbs for a 1st rounder (which Adel used on recruiting Jordan Gallucci) plus say Riley Knight, and maybe Harry Dear to add to it, or another depth midfielder. No need to go back over this. We don't have all the details of proposed trade options in this one I suppose.
The Geelong trade of Zach Tuohy made me a little frustrated. Sounds like the Cast baulked at trading a Darcy Lang and Nakia Cockatoo. I probably would have asked for George Horlin-Smith after these two. Anyway. We move on.
Look, I'm happy to wait and see how ALL the player son the senior and rookie lists go. They are Blues now. I'll support them.
Does anyone think Buckley is even close to our best 22?
What is his position in any event?
Not a defender, not a mid, not a small forward.....
A poor man's Denis Armfield, on current form/ability?
And Army's a filler from here on in.
Wing IMHO....
I'd have not recruited Smedts, Palmer nor Alex Silvagni. Armchair stuff here.
I'd have chased Mick Barlow, Matt deBoer and traded Bryce Gibbs for a 1st rounder (which Adel used on recruiting Jordan Gallucci) plus say Riley Knight, and maybe Harry Dear to add to it, or another depth midfielder. No need to go back over this. We don't have all the details of proposed trade options in this one I suppose.
The Geelong trade of Zach Tuohy made me a little frustrated. Sounds like the Cast baulked at trading a Darcy Lang and Nakia Cockatoo. I probably would have asked for George Horlin-Smith after these two. Anyway. We move on.
Look, I'm happy to wait and see how ALL the player son the senior and rookie lists go. They are Blues now. I'll support them.
Barlow had 31 and 29 possies in his two JLT games so far and has been excellent for GC... wont bore people with going over the same ground with my opinions on this though.
Lang didnt want to come to Carlton...local Colac boy and not interested in moving away from the country life...
Cockatoo was seen as the Motlop replacement when SM was in poor physical condition and likely to be moved on.....
I would have done Gibbs for a 1st rounder and Jarrod Lyons but again thats old ground so best move on...not sure what the state of play is with GHS...being a SA lad I reckon he might end up back home if he doesnt cement a spot this season...
Smedts is a player I wouldnt have recruited but one who at the same time interests me as he does have some talent and I hope he delivers as he could be an exciting player to watch...
Touhy = Marchbank + Pickett + Smedts.
You think we got stiffed?
What deal would you be happy with?
^-^ ^-^ O0
Jaksch played 1 game in the forward line in a team that got flogged then dropped. Which was a shocking way to treat a player.
I can only conclude, I don't actually know, that Jaksch is failing to meet certain requirements and targets set for him "behind the scenes". Until he meets those he won't be seriously considered for senior selection. It will be tough for him now as he's seriously under the microscope.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/carlton-legend-stephen-silvagni-is-committed-to-helping-the-blues-climb-back-up-the-afl-ladder/news-story/9e0c3b76bf5bc242f86a95a7704b19df
At the end of this article SOS gives a small tidbit of info on Jaksch.
Damn - stupid subscription blocker - just do a Google search for :
"Silvagni has passion to lift Blues"
Barlow had 31 and 29 possies in his two JLT games so far and has been excellent for GC... wont bore people with going over the same ground with my opinions on this though.
Lang didnt want to come to Carlton...local Colac boy and not interested in moving away from the country life...
Cockatoo was seen as the Motlop replacement when SM was in poor physical condition and likely to be moved on.....
I would have done Gibbs for a 1st rounder and Jarrod Lyons but again thats old ground so best move on...not sure what the state of play is with GHS...being a SA lad I reckon he might end up back home if he doesnt cement a spot this season...
Smedts is a player I wouldnt have recruited but one who at the same time interests me as he does have some talent and I hope he delivers as he could be an exciting player to watch...
He's a nice size too at 190cm, so can play multiple positions. He certainly has footy talent and footy nous IMO. He is thin though, due to those shoulder injuries.
I'd really like him to add size, and to become a legit AFL mid.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/carlton/carlton-legend-stephen-silvagni-is-committed-to-helping-the-blues-climb-back-up-the-afl-ladder/news-story/9e0c3b76bf5bc242f86a95a7704b19df
At the end of this article SOS gives a small tidbit of info on Jaksch.
Thanks Paul that does give us a little insight. Ties in with a video clip of him under scrutiny at training a few months ago on the club site.
Thanks Paul that does give us a little insight. Ties in with a video clip of him under scrutiny at training a few months ago on the club site.
Yes - sounds like another one who won't pull his finger out.
Buckley is a cameo player at best and doesnt get enough of the footy and as suggested at this size you have to be very good with the ball when you do get it and he isnt...
Agree. Just a backup and will be lucky to survive beyond this year.
32°C in Perth with a 5:40pm game time, right at the heat of the day.
A bunch of old blokes and a flight home.
It's a soft tissue injury nightmare!
Fremantle doctor will be blowing by then. Shouldn't be too bad.
:)
I would've left Korcheck in and told him just to follow and man up on Sandi. He would've learnt soooo much. ???
We won...the toss ;D
Date/Time
WST Temp
°C App
Temp
°C Dew
Point
°C Rel
Hum
% Delta-T
°C Wind Press
hPa Rain since
9am
mm Low
Temp
°C
time High
Temp
°C
time Highest Wind Gust
Dir Spd
km/h Gust
km/h Spd
kts Gust
kts Dir km/h
time kts
time
Date/Time
WST Temp
°C App
Temp
°C Dew
Point
°C Rel
Hum
% Delta-T
°C Wind Press
hPa Rain since
9am
mm Low
Temp
°C
time High
Temp
°C
time Highest Wind Gust
Dir Spd
km/h Gust
km/h Spd
kts Gust
kts Dir km/h
time kts
time
Perth 10/05:30pm 28.8 26.5 11.8 35 9.9 SE 15 26 8 14 1010.7 0.0 19.5
05:14am 29.9
03:39pm SSE 39
03:12pm 21
03:12pm
Already had enough of the parochial commentary!
Apparent temp about 26, 15km/hr wind from the SE.
Very pleasant conditions!
That Marchbank kid can play
Simon White gets dumber by the game.
Evening all
Can only listen where I am, apparently there is a bunch of Freo players competing against someone, from the commentary you would not know who!
We've gone in with one ruck against Sandilands who is going at 55% efficiency taps to advantage. At that rate Freo will win by 10 goals or more!
Just seem to be chasing all the time.
STILL NO forward structure
Still the silly free kicks , puts u s behind straight away
It seems when Freo have it they are tackled, when Freo don't have it they are tackling, the ball only bounces towards Freo players, there are only Freo players in at the ball in the contest, several Freo players are at marking attempts and from the tap Freo players tap the ball to advantage under pressure.
It must be a Freo intraclub!
Oh, I forgive them, Alex Silvagni is playing, no wait apparently he used to play for............... Freo! >:(
Cannot hit a target even if they were paid to...hangon :o
So far, we have been unable to string a clean passage of play together.
Kerridge a very skilless player
Kerridge nice Mark, but misses from right in front hitting the post, our finishing always the talking point
Gibbs is having a shocker
It always looks like we are an under 18's team playing against men. Always undersized and easily pushed off contests.
Very uninspiring if this is the main practise match before round 1
Some good passages of play but always seem to rush the kick and it is never to advantage.
I can only think of one word to best describe how we play, messy.
- We bomb the ball in hope to into the fwd line = Defenders read it better and pick it off
- We sell team mates into trouble with consummate ease.
- We cant seem to link a few quick, clean HBs to get it to a player in space who can they use it.
- We give away dumb frees.
Its just plain messy, no polish.
Do you think Nat is impressed with what he's seeing ?
Thomas just screw off
I can only think of one word to best describe how we play, messy.
- We bomb the ball in hope to into the fwd line = Defenders read it better and pick it off
- We sell team mates into trouble with consummate ease.
- We cant seem to link a few quick, clean HBs to get it to a player in space who can they use it.
- We give away dumb frees.
Its just plain messy, no polish.
Sounds like they are all definitely picking up on the game plan then? ::)
Gee Fyfe is hack ::)
So JLT 3 was the dress rehearsal yeah? Gonna be a looooooong year kiddies.
Who is going to go at pick one in the draft later this year? >:(
Gee Fyfe is hack ::)
No he's not, but it's also true that he's not worth $1.5M.
we need to bathe in some CLR
awful to see
Certainly no winners for us, seems we have gone back wards from last year judging by this .
No he's not, but it's also true that he's not worth $1.5M.
Of course he is not, I shouldve used ;), sorry LP.
Can you answer this LP, why is it we can pinpoint players with perfect passes in the backline then as soon as we hit the wing we can't hit anything? :o
Of course he is not, I shouldve used ;), sorry LP.
Can you answer this LP, why is it we can pinpoint players with perfect passes in the backline then as soon as we hit the wing we can't hit anything? :o
There two reason, we are the worst kicking side in the AFL, and we have forwards who have no idea where to led and how to create space.
Anyway, looks like Casboult is off injured and we'll run Kreuzer into the ground against Sandilands for the rest of the game. That'll leave us with no rucks for Rnd 1. Priceless!
Of course he is not, I shouldve used ;), sorry LP.
Can you answer this LP, why is it we can pinpoint players with perfect passes in the backline then as soon as we hit the wing we can't hit anything? :o
When?
I crap my pants every time the ball leaves the foot of one of our players as its a raffle as to where it will go.
Certainly no winners for us, seems we have gone back wards from last year judging by this .
Unless they are playing to instructions this sounds like there is still very low intensity which is very concerning
Unless they are playing to instructions this sounds like there is still very low intensity which is very concerning
The intensity looked ok for the first half of the 1st qtr, then it dropped off.
Freo Coast to Coast, in those case the all Freo commentary seems to fit!
Pickett showing some promise.
Pickett showing some promise.
Buckley's in big trouble, if Pickett stays fit he's got Buckley covered.
Certainly a better showing in that half, Pickett goal was the Jewel . Some nice team work, still misfiring though. , but added on the scoreboard
Cripps to half time :
19 disp, 8 cont poss, 5 tackles and 3 clearances. Terrific work rate, but of those 19 disp, 15 are handballs. Should I be worried about this ? Because I am.
The skill level of so many of our players is just diabolical. If you can't hit a target then you are going to get murdered on the turnovers.
If I have to watch 22 more games of Dale Thomas I am going to break a lot of TVs this year. I should get sponsored by JB HiFi.
I stopped watching and we got back into it sort of. I will keep it that way then.
Must be a better showing in the last half of the quarter. Wish I could see what is happening. Why not wish for the stars while I am at it.
The skill level of so many of our players is just diabolical. If you can't hit a target then you are going to get murdered on the turnovers.
If I have to watch 22 more games of Dale Thomas I am going to break a lot of TVs this year. I should get sponsored by JB HiFi.
Agree, he is nigh on useless.
There two reason, we are the worst kicking side in the AFL, and we have forwards who have no idea where to led and how to create space.
Anyway, looks like Casboult is off injured and we'll run Kreuzer into the ground against Sandilands for the rest of the game. That'll leave us with no rucks for Rnd 1. Priceless!
Wouldnt bother too much about the ruck, Sandilands is smashing us anyway...25 hitouts to half time and 10 to advantage, play Rowe in the ruck and rest MK.
Pickett, shows some class, Smedts is a woeful kick for goal, Cripps a one man band on the ball, and Weitering has been impressive down forward...
Going to be a long year...Freo are not much IMO and rely heavily on Fyfe....
Cripps to half time :
19 disp, 8 cont poss, 5 tackles and 3 clearances. Terrific work rate, but of those 19 disp, 15 are handballs. Should I be worried about this ? Because I am.
Are you serious?
No pre season and after only 2 quarters in this series he comes out and touches it 19 times in a half and we are criticizing him??
Cripps is a star. We don't have many let's not bag him as well.
Liked Weiterings game.
Are you serious?
No pre season and after only 2 quarters in this series he comes out and touches it 19 times in a half and we are criticizing him??
Cripps is a star. We don't have many let's not bag him as well.
Liked Weiterings game.
Fair call that.
Cripps to half time :
19 disp, 8 cont poss, 5 tackles and 3 clearances. Terrific work rate, but of those 19 disp, 15 are handballs. Should I be worried about this ? Because I am.
Don't worry one bit.
We all know his kicking is not a strength, he'll work on it, but his job is the clearance work and he's one of the best at it.
He can do damage with the handball
Greg Williams in his 1994 Brownlow year had around a 100 more handballs than he had kicks.
Cripps is still rusty, much better to come when he has more games and gets some fitness....been great tonight but has lacked support so some of his possies have not been as effective as we lack ball carriers with class to take his handballs.....his kicking is still wonky, one across half back sat up and we were lucky to win the footy from the contest..
Are you serious?
No pre season and after only 2 quarters in this series he comes out and touches it 19 times in a half and we are criticizing him??
Cripps is a star. We don't have many let's not bag him as well.
Liked Weiterings game.
He's an elite contested beast (great), who is very reluctant to kick (not so great). Watch any footage of him : extract the ball, then handball. I didn't really pay much attention until Rob Walls pointed it out :
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/carlton-blues/robert-walls-says-time-for-patrick-cripps-to-analyse-greg-williams-20160829-gr3ghq.html
In a game which has the word "football" in the title, in a game where precise kicking skills are worth more than hen's teeth, in a team which already has below par kicking skills - yes, I am serious, and yes I am a little worried.
Maybe the problem is that Cripps needs to be surrounded by players that can kick. Maybe it's not him. But its disturbs me that he seems so reluctant to use his feet.
The intensity looked ok for the first half of the 1st qtr, then it dropped off.
Thanks GTC, I'm not watching or listening, just relying on reports.
Would like to see Bolton make a stand with Thomas similar to how melb did with watts.
Can't believe I'm saying this but would rather see Jacksh then thomas the dud in round 1.
Pickett could be a steal
Don't worry one bit.
We all know his kicking is not a strength, he'll work on it, but his job is the clearance work and he's one of the best at it.
He can do damage with the handball
Greg Williams in his 1994 Brownlow year had around a 100 more handballs than he had kicks.
364 hb, 278 kicks. - Ratio 1.3:1
Check Cripps's stats - he's running at over 2:1 hb v kicks.
Maybe I should be more worried by his team mates - at least he does something constructive.
Well, to this point, at least the score makes it look competitive, which is better than the previous two hit outs.
What's Levi's kicking look like ? Anyone see any changes, improvements etc. ?
Thanks
Well, to this point, at least the score makes it look competitive, which is better than the previous two hit outs.
What's Levi's kicking look like ? Anyone see any changes, improvements etc. ?
Thanks
Seems a straighter more deliberate technique.
BUT still missing so nothing to be excited about.
What's Levi's kicking look like ? Anyone see any changes, improvements etc. ?
Dreadful and no.
Make no mistake, on what we have shown over the last 3 weeks no team is as far away from a premiership than us. The skill level of this group is truly embarrassing and miles away from the level required. We have a list full of hacks.
There is only a few players who deserve a spot round 1. Our on field leadership was horrible and Murphy's skill errors are terrible for a skipper who provides no example or presence on the field.
On exposed form it is going to be a very long year. I know it's the pre season but the bookies will have us favourites for the spoon for sure based on what we have shown.
Make no mistake, on what we have shown over the last 3 weeks no team is as far away from a premiership than us. The skill level of this group is truly embarrassing and miles away from the level required. We have a list full of hacks.
There is only a few players who deserve a spot round 1. Our on field leadership was horrible and Murphy's skill errors are terrible for a skipper who provides no example or presence on the field.
On exposed form it is going to be a very long year. I know it's the pre season but the bookies will have us favourites for the spoon for sure based on what we have shown.
x2....terrible skills, no real game plan/style, tackling poor, how many times did Fyfe evade or break tackles.....
Two shining lights from tonight were Pickett and Weitering.....how McCarthy got six goals is beyond me, didnt have to work too hard for any of them....Levi might have improved his run up but his ball drop is still poor.
Might be forced to play Liam Jones on exposed form, at least he crashes packs, attempts to mark the footy.....
Gibbs/Murphy...either just saving themselves for Richmond or very quiet....
364 hb, 278 kicks. - Ratio 1.3:1
Check Cripps's stats - he's running at over 2:1 hb v kicks.
Maybe I should be more worried by his team mates - at least he does something constructive.
Check out Matt Priddis and Josh Kennedy's (Syd) kick/hand ball ratio's and you'll see it isn't a huge issue. Both have much lower kick stats.
Very few teams, if any, will beat Freo in the West this year with Fyfe, Sandi and McCartney in form.
We went to within 4 goals without SPS, C. Curnow and a lot of players rusty as hell or simply playing badly.
Surely Thomas can't play in Rd 1?
Check out Matt Priddis and Josh Kennedy's (Syd) kick/hand ball ratio's and you'll see it isn't a huge issue. Both have much lower kick stats.
Speaking of Priddis he should have a picnic with Mitchell sharing the workload..the latter had the lazy 39 disposals in his last JLT game....
We were beaten by not much, if we are honest with ourselves, we played pretty poorly too.
There were a few of the young guys who showed they should be good players soon enough.
We still have some older baggage to get rid of but that will happen at the end of the season.
Much better effort and attitude than other PS games. If the mandate was give it a red hot crack but don't bust a boiler, then its a pass.
However, our skills were just as poor as our win over freo at DS last year. We had quite a few good patches, but surprise surprise, we lacked the finishing touches. We also had a lot of patches that looked excruciatingly difficult. Only to culminate in turnovers with poor disposal.
Freo weren't flash either, but if its handed to you enough times, something comes of it :( what freo did have is a real fwd who can lead, mark, and kick true in McCarthy. 6goals, mostly set shots from ideal positions.
We showed some ability to fight back, which was promising. There was good signs of unity with some biffo here and there.
The seniors were a mixed bag.
The good.
MK, Simmo, Docherty (aside a couple of terrible kicks), Rowe were solid and what you'd expect each week. I think Rowe is adding versatility and it's serving us well. Ed was his usual. Levi was good - set shot aside. Murphy and Gibbs looked lacklustre. who knows if this is by design. Cripps. Hardly a senior but is a champion and a leader. Loved it when he took it on and had a bounce or two. Plowman, like Cripps was solid.
Please someone, give Cripps some support. Murphy tried but...
The bad
Daisy. Kerridge's disposal (otherwise his OK self). Not bad but very ordinary - a silvagni, Smedts, RP, White. Hope Smedts can build with a run of consecutive games.
The ugly
Daisy. Surely hasn't earned a R1 spot ???
The future (aside from Cripps, doc etc)
Pickett. He's got such goal sense, and like many champs, seems to have time and space. Potential star, took a couple of difficult marks against bigger bodies and made it look easy. Jack couldn't hold a mark for love nor money, but ran it out with endeavor.
Weiters did OK fwd. He'll be a double pronged weapon in a couple of years.
Marchbank. Just class. McCreadie didn't play for long. Showed glimpses though.
And yes, strap in folks. It'll be a very long season on field. Enjoy what you see from the baby Blues.
Go Blues
Loved Pickett , Marchbank showed quite a bit and McCreadie will be the steal of the draft.
Long way to go but some signs are encouraging.
Go Baggers
Dreadful and no.
Seems a straighter more deliberate technique.
BUT still missing so nothing to be excited about.
Thank you gents. At least the score wasn't a blowout like the previous two. Small mercies indeed.
How Kerridge got in the best :o
Couldn't hit the side of a barn with a bag full of wheat.
We looked like a team of triers (Murphy and Gibbs aside)
Weitering and Cripps along with Simmo and Doullherty are our only true A graders.
I mean was Murphy actually playing?
We always seem to be out classed.
We look like a bunch of school boys playing against men.
Playing to a school team plan
Coached by a school teacher.
Harsh words i know but where is the polish, where is the plan, where is the leadership.
I know, I know, patience grasshopper but sfter 16 years of rubbish and another year of it to come you start to question your sanity.
What is it when you do the same thing over and over again and expect a different outcome..... ::)
What I like about Marchbank is his composure. Doesnt panic, knows what to do and has a steely resolve. Pickett could be anything but we have seen plenty of "preseason stars" go on to not strike a blow. As I said early, very messy effort, need to clean it up and add some polish. At least it wasnt a hiding. Cripps, nuff said.
The sooner we get Daisy, White and to a lesser extent Curnow out of that side, the better.
As honest as some of these have been over the years, while our team still requires the services of White, Armfield, Kerridge, Thomas, Casboult, Lamb, Palmer, Smedts and sadly even Curnow, we will not be competitive and will struggle to win more then a few games this year. Only early days but the recruiting of Smedts and Palmer is odd to say the least.
The above list butcher the ball way too often, miss targets, cause costly turnovers and most cannot nail simple goals. And to compound things the back ups are either kids or players with similar traits. :'(
Not too many lists have this amount of poor ball users on the park at the same time and that's very reason above many others is why we will be a bottom 2 team.
As honest as some of these have been over the years, while our team still requires the services of White, Armfield, Kerridge, Thomas, Casboult, Lamb, Palmer, Smedts and sadly even Curnow, we will not be competitive and will struggle to win more then a few games this year. Only early days but the recruiting of Smedts and Palmer is odd to say the least.
The above list butcher the ball way too often, miss targets, cause costly turnovers and most cannot nail simple goals. And to compound things the back ups are either kids or players with similar traits. :'(
Not too many lists have this amount of poor ball users on the park at the same time and that's very reason above many others is why we will be a bottom 2 team.
Good post and reveals where we are at. I haven't seen the game, but can imagine the skill level and general disorder.
We are only one season and 2 drafts into what has been hinted as a 3 season rebuild. There are some green shoots already, with alot of water to go under the bridge. I get the frustration of us all, but imagine the frustration and thus patiance required of the coaches. Bolton and co are playing a long game.
This season will see the last games played for Carlton for quite a few. If things go well, some others such as armfield, curnow, white will be pushed to the margins. The top up types such as palmer, kerridge, wright, lamb and smedts will cover the youngsters as they develop. And they will, if things go well, depart in the next 3-4 years too.
Thank you gents. At least the score wasn't a blowout like the previous two. Small mercies indeed.
Shawny is kind of correct, he was kicking points from 30m out directly in front instead of on the full.
One thing to keep in mind with practice games is that the effort across the ground will not be as consistent as in a regular season game.
Individuals will have different priorities.
Guys like Kreuzer and Simpson will usually give you 100% no matter what the game but they're the exception.
Others will go at about 80% and that might be the best preparation for them especially if they're going to be called upon for long periods on the ball throughout the season.
So the effect of that it is that if some are going at less than full effort it puts pressure on some of the less skilled players as they're called upon to pick up the slack.
It causes extra pressure and under that pressure skills will be affected.
It's why practice games only give you a limited perspective of what the team will be like in the season proper.
As an example....Throw Weitering down back for that game and all of a sudden that defence becomes much stronger and as a result the defenders have assistance. It reduces their workload and allows them to play closer attention to their own man. Mccarthy doesn't get six goals, some of those over the top/ free run into goal scores don't occur.
If Gibbs and Murphy increase their output it takes the pressure off the other midfielders.
Cripps plays a full game same result.
If all three are operating at a high rate then suddenly the others have more time, disposals aren't rushed and as a result are more effective.
Playtime is over.
The real stuff is about to begin....and then we can make some informed judgements.
One thing to keep in mind with practice games is that the effort across the ground will not be as consistent as in a regular season game.
Individuals will have different priorities.
Guys like Kreuzer and Simpson will usually give you 100% no matter what the game but they're the exception.
Others will go at about 80% and that might be the best preparation for them especially if they're going to be called upon for long periods on the ball throughout the season.
So the effect of that it is that if some are going at less than full effort it puts pressure on some of the less skilled players as they're called upon to pick up the slack.
It causes extra pressure and under that pressure skills will be affected.
It's why practice games only give you a limited perspective of what the team will be like in the season proper.
As an example....Throw Weitering down back for that game and all of a sudden that defence becomes much stronger and as a result the defenders have assistance. It reduces their workload and allows them to play closer attention to their own man. Mccarthy doesn't get six goals, some of those over the top/ free run into goal scores don't occur.
If Gibbs and Murphy increase their output it takes the pressure off the other midfielders.
Cripps plays a full game same result.
If all three are operating at a high rate then suddenly the others have more time, disposals aren't rushed and as a result are more effective.
Playtime is over.
The real stuff is about to begin....and then we can make some informed judgements.
And...this is why you are our Leader Lods.
Great logical post! :)
And...this is why you are our Leader Lods.
Great logical post! :)
I'm not the leader...more like one of the janitors. :D
Shawny is kind of correct, he was kicking points from 30m out directly in front instead of on the full.
Thanks. At least things are moving in the right direction. I love progress.
Check out Matt Priddis and Josh Kennedy's (Syd) kick/hand ball ratio's and you'll see it isn't a huge issue. Both have much lower kick stats.
Lods. Priddis is running about 1.5:1 and Josh P Kennedy about 1.3:1.
Don't get me wrong. I'm focusing on the 1% of Cripps game that worries me - the other 99% is fine. It's nit picking no doubt, but what I say is true. I'm hopeful he can evolve into something more like Sam Mitchell or Diesel.
As honest as some of these have been over the years, while our team still requires the services of White, Armfield, Kerridge, Thomas, Casboult, Lamb, Palmer, Smedts and sadly even Curnow, we will not be competitive and will struggle to win more then a few games this year. Only early days but the recruiting of Smedts and Palmer is odd to say the least.
The above list butcher the ball way too often, miss targets, cause costly turnovers and most cannot nail simple goals. And to compound things the back ups are either kids or players with similar traits. :'(
Not too many lists have this amount of poor ball users on the park at the same time and that's very reason above many others is why we will be a bottom 2 team.
An unfortunately accurate assessment.
On the other hand, if Curnow would be worthy if he were to limit himself to long kicking or hand-balling to someone who could kick reliably; he is a major liability when trying to pass the ball by foot.
What's Levi's kicking look like ? Anyone see any changes, improvements etc. ?
The approach, the rhythm and follow-through are noticeably better.
He is dropping the ball from a lower height and (contrary to his set shot miss yesterday) the ball drop is more controlled. So there is a big improvement, coming from a very low starting point.
He's an elite contested beast (great), who is very reluctant to kick (not so great).
Maybe the problem is that Cripps needs to be surrounded by players that can kick. Maybe it's not him. But its disturbs me that he seems so reluctant to use his feet.
I suspect his reluctance is partly due to the fact that he commonly has the ball in the 'thick of it' and because he doesn't want to turn the ball over. His foot-passing skills are not much better than Curnow's so the more hand-balling the better - Curnow could do likewise - as long as the ball is hand-passed to Murphy, Simpson and decent exponents of the foot pass.
The approach, the rhythm and follow-through are noticeably better.
He is dropping the ball from a lower height and (contrary to his set shot miss yesterday) the ball drop is more controlled. So there is a big improvement, coming from a very low starting point.
Thanks RR.
I suspect his reluctance is partly due to the fact that he commonly has the ball in the 'thick of it' and because he doesn't want to turn the ball over. His foot-passing skills are not much better than Curnow's so the more hand-balling the better - Curnow could do likewise - as long as the ball is hand-passed to Murphy, Simpson and decent exponents of the foot pass.
Yes, I would agree with all that. He is the best contested ball player in the comp - that's beyond dispute. But I really want him to be good at other things too. I want him to win the Brownlow. I want him to win the Leigh Matthews Trophy. He has the right attitude, and i have no doubt is working hard on his deficiencies.
What I like about Marchbank is his composure. Doesnt panic, knows what to do and has a steely resolve. Pickett could be anything but we have seen plenty of "preseason stars" go on to not strike a blow. As I said early, very messy effort, need to clean it up and add some polish. At least it wasnt a hiding. Cripps, nuff said.
The sooner we get Daisy, White and to a lesser extent Curnow out of that side, the better.
E. Curnows disposal by foot is atrocious....no left side either, White is another who cannot hit a target.....Daisy is gone and needs to do a deal with the club and retire....
re: Cripps....was great last night but we have zero backup for him...if he doesnt play we will be hammered by most teams...we needed to get some backup at trade/draft time but didnt....
As an example....Throw Weitering down back for that game and all of a sudden that defence becomes much stronger and as a result the defenders have assistance. It reduces their workload and allows them to play closer attention to their own man. Mccarthy doesn't get six goals, some of those over the top/ free run into goal scores don't occur.
Yes, our defense gets better with Weitering down back.
However, our forward line gets a lot worse.
Weitering kicked 1.1 and a score assist. =team high marks inside 50 (2)
He adds more value to the team playing in the forwardline.
Rowe, Marchbank, Plowman, A. Silvagni and even White can play key posts down back in Weiterings absence.
Who can play up forward if we take Weitering away from there?
Casboutl, J. Silvagni....Curnow.....McKay.... ??
Basically the same thing was said last night...
There was a discussion had about weitering last night with Dunstall re forward vs back.
If he is a 9/10 backman and a 7-8/10 forward, where is he best played in our side?
Given the lack of depth and need of forward, he's better off forward.
OK, early days and only JLT games, but where are Gibbs and Murphy at? Sounds like more lack lustre efforts again yesterday from what should be two of our leading lights? We'll know more after R1 of course but I'm starting to believe that these two might well be right at the root of our problems.
That's true kruddler, but if we believe Bolt-on, he's made it clear that Weitering will be played mostly in defense for now, with a view to him being a top level swing-man in the long term.
E. Curnows disposal by foot is atrocious....no left side either, White is another who cannot hit a target.....Daisy is gone and needs to do a deal with the club and retire....
Many people on here have the crosshairs trained in a select few players this season.
Thomas, White, Ed and Kerridge.
Most of the talk is the same, poor kicking.
One thing they all have in common, besides that, is that they are senior players who give their all.
Lets say the wishes of many on here were granted and those 4 (could be more) are no longer given selection. Who comes in, what does the team look like. Are we better off?
Personally, i think we will have WAY too many kids in their place who will get injured as they are not up to the physicality of senior football yet. That leads to people further down the list getting games (or putting the above 4 back in) and we go round in circles.
Its true that they are far from a-grade footballers, but they offer something that our list largely lacks. Good old fashioned guts and determination. That CAN be infectious. It is very hard to manufacture. With such a young list, we simply need these types of players in our team. People better just get used to it.
These are the players that block, smother, shephard, tackle, run hard and cover for teammates and generally do the 1%ers. We could do with some more of that on our list.
Main issue is a lack of run. Freo always seemed to have someone running past to take a handball and a couple of players running ahead of the ball to create space. That quick movement created so much space in their F50 at times. We barely do that at all. Without that we win nothing. You'll be surprised how much the skills improve when there's space in the F50 where forwards have the space to run onto the ball. That's what we did for most of the 6 wins we had last year. Handballs suddenly stopped finding grass, our kicking into the 50 was much better, and our forwards could actually function. Then we stopped. No matter how good your team is on paper, no run often means no win.
I reckon poor disposal into the F50 cost us 6-7 goals. We'd have a bloke on the lead and miss him with an easy pass or when we did get it right some dill would drop it. Often resulted in a goal at the other end.
Hopefully everything above is a practice match attitude problem.
You may well be right Jim. We had plenty of run in the Ratts days and actually looked half decent.
Well, to this point, at least the score makes it look competitive, which is better than the previous two hit outs.
What's Levi's kicking look like ? Anyone see any changes, improvements etc. ?
Thanks
He did everything right in the lead up to his kick until the ball drop. I think it nearly fell sideways onto his foot.
He actually rucked well when he was in there last night. A few of his taps landed nicely against much bigger opponents. Problem was he become a true Carlton ruckman last night, tapped ok but then did sweet fk all up forward and around the ground. He did have a good first game though so hopefully just a bad night.
You may well be right Jim. We had plenty of run in the Ratts days and actually looked half decent.
It's the one basic, no run, no win. It's like footy 40 yrs ago. It's a running game. You can still do the things you need to do if you wanted to focus on the defensive aspects but once you have the ball, run and create something.
He did everything right in the lead up to his kick until the ball drop. I think it nearly fell sideways onto his foot.
He actually rucked well when he was in there last night. A few of his taps landed nicely against much bigger opponents. Problem was he become a true Carlton ruckman last night, tapped ok but then did sweet fk all up forward and around the ground. He did have a good first game though so hopefully just a bad night.
Thanks Jim.
It's the one basic, no run, no win. It's like footy 40 yrs ago. It's a running game. You can still do the things you need to do if you wanted to focus on the defensive aspects but once you have the ball, run and create something.
Indeed.
Re; Weiters fwd v back
The impression I get listening to Bolts is this. He's likely to become a star in both ends (one man bookends,, ). They will develop his skills, physical and mental, for the divergent roles progressively. As we're not in the mix just yet, this will occur over the next couple of years.
The pace will that which suits his development. Work in progress. Short term individual development will be prioritized. Longer term the team will benefit - - double time. At that stage (2019 on) we'll be emerging contenders. Of course, that assumes the much improved recruiting strategy continues.
For mine, I'm happy to watch him master his craft without too much expectation this year. I also expect that his professionalism will result in rapid growth. The individual and team will benefit incrementally. Exciting viewing for us all ;D
Re; Weiters fwd v back
The impression I get listening to Bolts is this. He's likely to become a star in both ends (one man bookends,, ). They will develop his skills, physical and mental, for the divergent roles progressively. As we're not in the mix just yet, this will occur over the next couple of years.
The pace will that which suits his development. Work in progress. Short term individual development will be prioritized. Longer term the team will benefit - - double time. At that stage (2019 on) we'll be emerging contenders. Of course, that assumes the much improved recruiting strategy continues.
For mine, I'm happy to watch him master his craft without too much expectation this year. I also expect that his professionalism will result in rapid growth. The individual and team will benefit incrementally. Exciting viewing for us all ;D
Forward, especially early when Casboult will be required to be our back up ruckman. Probably leave him there. As much as Levi's done a decent job as a 3rd round rookie pick, Weitering is a class above him. Levi would do better as the 2nd forward.
An unfortunately accurate assessment.
On the other hand, if Curnow would be worthy if he were to limit himself to long kicking or hand-balling to someone who could kick reliably; he is a major liability when trying to pass the ball by foot.
Yes...I love Ed, he bleeds Blue, tries his guts out...but he just gives it back to the opposition time and time again....I'd tear my hair out if I had any >:( :o
re: Cripps....was great last night but we have zero backup for him...if he doesnt play we will be hammered by most teams...we needed to get some backup at trade/draft time but didnt....
Agreed EB....although we haven't seen SPS yet, I have seen Will Brodie for GC and he's been great for a 1st year....went at 9 and could've been ours...anyway, we've made our bed now....
Just watched the replay.
Pickett: A keeper
Lamb: For an opportunist forward he had the chance and couldn't capitalize. Out
Back six: Just keep them together
Thomas: No
Mid field: never got first use of the ball when Sandy was in the ruck
J Silvagni: never in it, looked lost
Palmer, Smedts, White: required players...at this stage.
Kerriridge: A worry
Murphy and Gibbs: Will increase intensity in Round 1
Cripps: In the starting blocks, ready to go.
Simpson: Essential
Missed shots and turnovers: The difference
Richmond will not dominate the ruck and give their on ballers first use. Early season fatigue and heat will not be a factor (mistakes happen when you're tired.....and when you lack skill,) Ed Curnow will be given a specific task and that's his bread and butter. Charlie C will be back. We should bring Cunningham back in for pace and see if Sumner can do what Lamb hasn't been able to do.
There were signs that have me feeling positive about Round 1
And...this is why you are our Leader Lods.
Great logical post! :)
Indeed.
We also understand that different clubs approach PS with their own goals.
I'm just hoping Lods logic doesn't apply equally across clubs (i.e. Fyfe, Neale + 20% gets scary). Otherwise we're in for a long painful year ;)
No doubt this is a variable multifactorial puzzle. Some factors will follow predictably others totally unpredictable.
Either way, I hope our young guys are given optimal development opportunities, our interim players (and staff) maintain intensity and professionalism, and our recruiting stays the course of 'class in, can't dispose efficiently out'. Oh.... and I also hope my fellow blue baggers remain patient, enjoy the ups, tolerate the downs, and unite with the passion that is Carlton.
Go Blues
You may well be right Jim. We had plenty of run in the Ratts days and actually looked half decent.
Same amount of run as today. It just looked like we had more because it was all one way. ;)
Same amount of run as today. It just looked like we had more because it was all one way. ;)
We did have alot more run back then than now but yes, it was probably a bit much one way. The issue has been is we can never seem to get the right balance of offence and defence. Been like that for 10 years. The style under Ratts gets you into finals, maybe potential top 4 back in those days, but premierships come with the ability to go back and defend too.
Same amount of run as today. It just looked like we had more because it was all one way. ;)
You're a cheeky minx kruddler - and very consistent.
It might've been one way, but we were competitive, and we haven't looked as good since, and certainly not before.
I would gladly take that era over the drivel that we've served up since (with a few notable exceptions).
re: Weitering forward or back.....was in the back only camp but now I want him groomed as a key forward....we have enough backs and he is too talented not to be played forward IMO. Finds space and can work up the ground as well as be a marking target.....no brainer that he has to play forward in a team devoid of Forwards with know how..
You're a cheeky minx kruddler - and very consistent.
It might've been one way, but we were competitive, and we haven't looked as good since, and certainly not before.
I would gladly take that era over the drivel that we've served up since (with a few notable exceptions).
Jimbo just covered it above.
Do you want to be consistent finalists without winning one?
Or do you want to win a flag?
Ratts got us finals, sure. But there was a reason he was (perhaps) harshly done by...it was believed he couldn't take us to the next step. Which, in the end, is everything.
Jimbo just covered it above.
Do you want to be consistent finalists without winning one?
Or do you want to win a flag?
Ratts got us finals, sure. But there was a reason he was (perhaps) harshly done by...it was believed he couldn't take us to the next step. Which, in the end, is everything.
The problem is that once we sack them we'll never, never know :(
Because of our very own collection of "goons in sector 7g", we'll never know what would've happened in 2013, had Ratts stayed.
Ratts made us competitive, pure and simple. Each one of our losing finals was played interstate. Losing margins, 5 points, 7 points, 3 points. You are aware that before he got there, we finished 16th, 16th and 15th ?
The same people who believed he couldn't keep us improving are the ones who thought Mick could. I'll leave it at that.
2011 SF - In a game without Gibbs and Krooz, and a forward line with Setana and Thornton, against a full strength ? WCE team. Dodgy umpiring.
Final quarter - Judd kicks out of D50, straight to a WC player - handball to Hurn - goal. Game over, Gulshan Grover. Every moment in an AFL game contributes to the final result. I have cherry picked one very specific moment in order to make a point.
For those of you who may have been dragged to one too many Hollywood Rom Coms (possibly by the promise of more sexy time), you may notice the story is usually similar. The main character spends the entire movie searching for the righr person, only to find they have been right in front of them all along.
Booya.
re: Weitering forward or back.....was in the back only camp but now I want him groomed as a key forward....we have enough backs and he is too talented not to be played forward IMO. Finds space and can work up the ground as well as be a marking target.....no brainer that he has to play forward in a team devoid of Forwards with know how..
This is exactly the message I got from Bolton's recent press conference. I expect he will play almost exclusively key forward in 2019 and beyond. But we don't want to throw him under the bus too soon, especially the way we bring the ball inside 50 at the moment. Need to build a competitive midfield first
One of the many worries has to be the form of mid sized half forward / wingers.
Pickett was the stand out last night and needs to be given a good run at it to get his tank up to speed. But he has a lot of tricks and is one of the few with a real touch of class about what he does. He knows where the goals are and looks like a smart player with lovely skills.
But other than him there has been very little shown that demands selection. Lamb, Boek, Thomas, Silvagni have all struggled big time, and Sumner can't even get a game. Silvagni has been a big disappointment for me in the two games he has played - he has looked off the speed and lost at times. As a Half Forward in the modern game you need a huge workrate and be both an offensive and defensive threat. I worry a little whether he has the endurance to play that position at the moment?
I've been in the Weitering forward camp since the West Coast game last year when he helped turn the game in our favour on one leg.
I've been in the Weitering forward camp since the West Coast game last year when he helped turn the game in our favour on one leg.
I've got him forward at 3/4/2016. :D
Weitering at CHF....(if we're giving him an education let's give him a well rounded one...there's nothing to lose)
Can anyone beat that ;D
I've got him forward at 3/4/2016. :D
Can anyone beat that ;D
Leader once again Lods! ;)
It's not hard to take credit for the bleeding obvious ;) :D
Weitering will be our Pavlich.
He needs to be developed at both ends of the ground
Palmer, Smedts, SPS, Pickett, Marchbank and Fisher should all play Rd 1. Add C. Curnow too.
Anyone who says those 7 don't considerably improve our best 22 are kidding!
All will get better as they play more in the Navy Blue.
So, White, Daisy, Army, maybe even SOJ get pushed out.....ED Curnow - gee you blokes are quick to condemn....
Again, Sandi smashes us in the ruck, was folly not to play Korchek imo...even if only for the experience and he's a lot bigger than Special K.
Palmer, Smedts, SPS, Pickett, Marchbank and Fisher should all play Rd 1. Add C. Curnow too.
Anyone who says those 7 don't considerably improve our best 22 are kidding!
All will get better as they play more in the Navy Blue.
So, White, Daisy, Army, maybe even SOJ get pushed out.....ED Curnow - gee you blokes are quick to condemn....
Again, Sandi smashes us in the ruck, was folly not to play Korchek imo...even if only for the experience and he's a lot bigger than Special K.
I'd agree with those selections...Palmer at least seemed to be able to hit a few targets when he was on.....Pickett and Marchbank are certs and I like Fisher as a player and want to see him developed.
SPS would play normally but IMO might get one in the NB's to get and prove his fitness...Smedts got a bit of footy but kicked poorly for goal...prepared to give him a few games to fix that issue..
Ed Curnow is a good Soldier but needs to hand the footy off more as his kicking is ordinary....Murphy and Gibbs should use him more and take the pressure off him to hit targets. not having a left foot doesnt help him either.
I'd agree with those selections...Palmer at least seemed to be able to hit a few targets when he was on.....Pickett and Marchbank are certs and I like Fisher as a player and want to see him developed.
SPS would play normally but IMO might get one in the NB's to get and prove his fitness...Smedts got a bit of footy but kicked poorly for goal...prepared to give him a few games to fix that issue..
Ed Curnow is a good Soldier but needs to hand the footy off more as his kicking is ordinary....Murphy and Gibbs should use him more and take the pressure off him to hit targets. not having a left foot doesnt help him either.
SPS surely won't be thrown straight in, hasn't had a game yet this year! Fisher is light for size, needs to be managed carefully (remember Murphy getting monstered in his first year), I would give him a few NBs games before bringing him in. The rest yes
Wake up Flyboy, SPS hasn't played a game, and you want to pick him . Smedts and Palmer are spuds, they'll still get a game but if Thomas does I should get a game as well. Shows how thin our list is if we play those blokes on a consistent basis.
I expect our young boys will have games strategically managed. We certainly seem to have some classy youngsters. Their needs and capacities will vary and I expect our coaches/selectors will be cognizant of how to optimize development. I'm looking forward to seeing the 1st and 2nd year players show their wares. Hopefully most will get a good run at it, and some will shine.
It's a fu**ing disgrace and a searing indictment on our senior players and list management that we are expecting a kid barely out of his teens to fix our forward issues. He should not have his development compromised in any way simply to compensate for the idiocy of others.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-03-09/boltons-longterm-plan-for-young-star-weitering
Bolt-on is dead right :
"I'm just really mindful that we as a club understand that he is only in his second year and if we chop and change things for him too randomly that can unsettle young players," Bolton said.
"So we just want to make sure he's totally solidified as a defender first and then he can grow into other roles.
"But the long-term plan is he can play at both ends and we've already started to do that, but we just haven't done it flippantly."
@Paul
Here here.
The problem is that once we sack them we'll never, never know :(
That's why i said 'believed'.
Those in charge make the calls. We don't like the calls, we don't keep them in charge.
Booya.
Booya yourself.
That is not my opinion on the situation, that is the facts.
Don't shoot the messenger.
The messenger in this instance was more than happy to see the back of Ratts, because the messenger believed that the decision made by those in charge was correct.
It wasn't.
It's a fu**ing disgrace and a searing indictment on our senior players and list management that we are expecting a kid barely out of his teens to fix our forward issues. He should not have his development compromised in any way simply to compensate for the idiocy of others.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-03-09/boltons-longterm-plan-for-young-star-weitering
Bolt-on is dead right :
"I'm just really mindful that we as a club understand that he is only in his second year and if we chop and change things for him too randomly that can unsettle young players," Bolton said.
"So we just want to make sure he's totally solidified as a defender first and then he can grow into other roles.
"But the long-term plan is he can play at both ends and we've already started to do that, but we just haven't done it flippantly."
Bolton has set himself a challenge with these comments....although he's probably left himself some wriggle room.
How strongly does he stick to that plan if our forward line doesn't develop over the season.
At what point does individual development give way to the need for team success.
Should Weitering go forward later in the year and be a success it would be difficult to move him back.
Bolton has set himself a challenge with these comments....although he's probably left himself some wriggle room.
How strongly does he stick to that plan if our forward line doesn't develop over the season.
At what point does individual development give way to the need for team success.
Should Weitering go forward later in the year and be a success it would be difficult to move him back.
We'll find out soon enough Lods.
The messenger in this instance was more than happy to see the back of Ratts, because the messenger believed that the decision made by those in charge was correct.
It wasn't.
According to who?
I doubt you were even around on the site at the time. Even if you were, your memory is failing you.
I'll have you know i was backing Ratten in up until the week he got sacked. The only reason i believed he would/should get sacked at that time was because the external pressure on him was so great that the club could not afford NOT to sack him.
Funnily enough, it was the same with Mick. External pressure got to explosive stage where the club didn't have a choice.
It was untenable in both instances.
I've gone in to bat for Mick on many occasion as you'd know. Is that because i'm 'pro Mick' or is that because i'm anti-everyone else? The club has failed us on numerous occasions in numerous departments, both off-field and on. As you might recall my recent Membership stuff-up rant.
I've had issues with the membership department.
I've had issues with the development of players.
I've had issues with the recruiting of the club (however, i've defended it to point out other areas of the club that are lacking - eg development)
I've had issues with club culture.
I've had issues with the board and overall direction of the club.
So yes, i've defended Mick as not being
that bad to highlight issues throughout the club.
That does not mean i was pro-sacking of ratten in order to get mick.
Get your facts straight and don't assume.
The club has a number of issues - this much we can agree on. Malthouse was, IMO, absolutely was one of those issues. I don't believe Ratts was.
My impression, reading your posts over many years, is that you held Ratts directly accountable for the bad culture that you keep referring to, and that you believed Mick would be instrumental in fixing this "bad" culture. This is what my memory remembers - if that's not right, well then I apologize.
The club has a number of issues - this much we can agree on. Malthouse was, IMO, absolutely was one of those issues. I don't believe Ratts was.
My impression, reading your posts over many years, is that you held Ratts directly accountable for the bad culture that you keep referring to, and that you believed Mick would be instrumental in fixing this "bad" culture. This is what my memory remembers - if that's not right, well then I apologize.
I'm not sure that Kruddler laid the blame for our situation solely on Ratts but his strident claims that Malthouse would "fix the culture" were a source of great amusement to anyone with Collingwood contacts (do I really want to admit that?).
Either way, we won't know.
Just like we don't know that Richardson may have made Ratten look good, and I have little doubt in my mind that in 2012, the group was that fractured Ratten couldn't have stayed.
Had we appointed Richo back then we could be talking differently, but one thing we didn't do was our due diligence with any appointment going back to Wayne Brittain which sums up why it's taking us so long.
Seriously a jlt game ... exposure during a soft preseason game isn't going to set anyone back or set anyone up.
The club has a number of issues - this much we can agree on. Malthouse was, IMO, absolutely was one of those issues. I don't believe Ratts was.
My impression, reading your posts over many years, is that you held Ratts directly accountable for the bad culture that you keep referring to, and that you believed Mick would be instrumental in fixing this "bad" culture. This is what my memory remembers - if that's not right, well then I apologize.
The bold part is right.
I wanted Mick to fix the culture and thought he had enough 'c*nt' about him to force change up and down the hierarchy at the club and enough runs on the board to have the respect required. This was on the back of the rookie coach favourite son who simply didn't have the experience. We were still in "we are carlton f*ck the rest" mode and we needed a culture shock.
I never blamed ratten for the culture.
Denis Pagan however...... >:(
As i said, i was a fan of Ratten. He did wonders from where he got the club. His only issue was inexperience in both coaching/tactics and inexperience in setting up a club for long term success (partially not his problem, but could have helped).
Ratten as our coach now would be better than Ratten as our coach back then.
Does every feckin thread need to turn into a Ratten Malthouse Pagan discussion? FFS move on!!!! >:( >:( >:(
Does every feckin thread need to turn into a Ratten Malthouse Pagan discussion? FFS move on!!!! >:( >:( >:(
Spot-on Gic.
What the hell has 3 has-been dud coaches got to do with JLT game 3 ????????
Does every feckin thread need to turn into a Ratten Malthouse Pagan discussion? FFS move on!!!! >:( >:( >:(
I agree, sure It's reasonable and beneficial to study history, but not to poison every thread.
Maybe all new threads should have the swear filter include the terms Pagan, Ratten and Malthouse...
Until the club experiences some success this stuff is never going away!
Does every feckin thread need to turn into a Ratten Malthouse Pagan discussion? FFS move on!!!! >:( >:( >:(
I suspect it will until such time as we go into every game with a genuine chance of coming away with the four points.
I haven't watched the game yet but I am a little perplexed by the doom and gloom generated by losing a practice match. Freo with Sandilands and Fyfe fit and firing is a serious footy side but, apart from hitouts, the statistics indicate closely matched teams.
I guess it will mean over the top celebrations when we beat Richmond in round one :)
Although very disappointed in the last 3 results, it is a point to consider that we are thinking the practise games this year had the same value as previous pre seasons games when there actually was some thing to win? And that this year the club has actually treated them as practise games ?
Although very disappointed in the last 3 results, it is a point to consider that we are thinking the practise games this year had the same value as previous pre seasons games when there actually was some thing to win? And that this year the club has actually treated them as practise games ?
Whichever way you slice it, nobody goes out to lose these games.
We've lost games against 9th, 10th and 16th from last season (we were 14th) and all of those sides are expected to improve....as is Bombers with their new players back who finished 18th.
I quick ascent up the ladder it looks like not. :(
We still have much work to do on our list IMO before we see significant ladder position improvement, although our performance in R1 may be cause to change that assessment (hopefully). Looking at our current "senior" players, I would think most of those will have gone and new stars will need to emerge, by whatever means, before we become a really competitive force.
Hopefully I'm proved wrong.
We still have much work to do on our list IMO before we see significant ladder position improvement, although our performance in R1 may be cause to change that assessment (hopefully). Looking at our current "senior" players, I would think most of those will have gone and new stars will need to emerge, by whatever means, before we become a really competitive force.
Hopefully I'm proved wrong.
Whatever happens in Richmond in R1 we not be a good yard stick. They are as up and down as us.
R2 maybe. ;)
Whatever happens in Richmond in R1 we not be a good yard stick. They are as up and down as us.
R2 maybe. ;)
Tend to agree about Nthmond.
They look like they have an One-In-All-In approach this season. It'll deliver them some big wins but they get some massive upset losses as well. But it'll be good for their fans, they be back to roaring one week and gobbing on coaches the next, it's the Nthmond way! :D
It looks like we have a footballer in Pickett; good mark for his size, uses the ball well, puts pressure on his opponent and knows where the goals are.
Whatever happens in Richmond in R1 we not be a good yard stick. They are as up and down as us.
R2 maybe. ;)
Richmond will start clear favourites vs us and would be expected to won by 5 goals plus IMO...I dont rate them at all and think they are rubbish
but with Hardwick under the pump I expect them to be up early in the season while I think we may take a few games to wind up and get going.
Always fancy our chances vs the Tigers though and IMO its a 50/50 games even though most of the public and media wont see it that way...
Until the club experiences some success this stuff is never going away!
All I am saying is lets draw a line in the sand and move on.
54% of the List is BBs
24% is MMs
15% is Rattens
7% in DPs
Majority of the list is BB's, will be swayed even more his way after this year. Thats enough for me to look fwd instead of back and not hijack every thread with same BS.
Whatever happens in Richmond in R1 we not be a good yard stick. They are as up and down as us.
R2 maybe. ;)
OK R2 it is! I will be looking very closely at HOW we compete, especially the senior guys, rather than necessarily the results, although wins would be very nice. :)
The bold part is right.
I wanted Mick to fix the culture and thought he had enough 'c*nt' about him to force change up and down the hierarchy at the club and enough runs on the board to have the respect required. This was on the back of the rookie coach favourite son who simply didn't have the experience. We were still in "we are carlton f*ck the rest" mode and we needed a culture shock.
I never blamed ratten for the culture.
Denis Pagan however...... >:(
As i said, i was a fan of Ratten. He did wonders from where he got the club. His only issue was inexperience in both coaching/tactics and inexperience in setting up a club for long term success (partially not his problem, but could have helped).
Ratten as our coach now would be better than Ratten as our coach back then.
Well, thank you for clarifying that. I can honestly say I never would have got that impression from reading your posts.
To those who are complaining about the occasional ex-coach dust ups that occur, I can appreciate that this may be a PITA, but please also understand that in terms of recent events, this is an issue which fiercely divides CFC supporters, and arouses strong passions and opinions for good reason.
Perhaps the mods may consider setting up an all encompassing Mick/Ratts thread, in some deep dark corner of the CSC site.
Perhaps the mods may consider setting up an all encompassing Mick/Ratts thread, in some deep dark corner of the CSC site.
It's actually not been too bad lately...it still encroaches on some threads but for the most part people have moved on
If folks want to discuss it there are multiple threads in the "coaches box" section of the site.
It's actually not been too bad lately...it still encroaches on some threads but for the most part people have moved on
If folks want to discuss it there are multiple threads in the "coaches box" section of the site.
Thanks Lods.
Bolton has set himself a challenge with these comments....although he's probably left himself some wriggle room.
How strongly does he stick to that plan if our forward line doesn't develop over the season.
At what point does individual development give way to the need for team success.
Should Weitering go forward later in the year and be a success it would be difficult to move him back.
Just on this point - we also don't know how many games Bolts has in mind for Weeters to be "totally solidified as a defender". Personally I would think 3 seasons would be ideal. So around 60-70 games. Which by my reckoning means that Weeters should have 2017 and 18 predominantly as a defender. But I guess mileage may vary from player to player.
Weeters and Cripps are the only two A grade / potential A grade players on our list. They are absolutely the last players you want doing the "no more gaps" routine. I wonder if Gibbs career was compromised precisely because of this point.
Well, thank you for clarifying that. I can honestly say I never would have got that impression from reading your posts.
The impression that you get is often based on your own opinions and expectations.
Ask anyone who has been around this site long enough and they will know my distaste for Pagan.
Doubt anyone would say the same about Ratten.
Most people opinions are incorrect when it comes to my feelings on Malthouse too.
Point is. Don't assume. Ask.
FWIW, Bolton has been nothing but encouraging so far. I'm backing him in for the long haul. I am not surprised by the (lack of) performance of the team thus far in the JLT series and am in no way calling for his head.
I am slightly disappointed with the (lack of) effort that has been put in thus far, but in all honesty, it isn't all that different from the tail end of last season. The same part of the season that most people seem to ignore when talking about expectations for this year.
Having said that, Bolton still has a few hoops to jump through and is still largely unproven.
We'll see how different the regular season is compared to practice matches and it'll give a bit of an insight into what to expect.
All I am saying is lets draw a line in the sand and move on.
54% of the List is BBs
24% is MMs
15% is Rattens
7% in DPs
Majority of the list is BB's, will be swayed even more his way after this year. Thats enough for me to look fwd instead of back and not hijack every thread with same BS.
One bad apple can spoil the entire barrel.
If we don't have players in it for the team first, then they will spoil some of the others.
The impression that you get is often based on your own opinions and expectations.
Ask anyone who has been around this site long enough and they will know my distaste for Pagan.
Doubt anyone would say the same about Ratten.
Most people opinions are incorrect when it comes to my feelings on Malthouse too.
Point is. Don't assume. Ask.
FWIW, Bolton has been nothing but encouraging so far. I'm backing him in for the long haul. I am not surprised by the (lack of) performance of the team thus far in the JLT series and am in no way calling for his head.
I am slightly disappointed with the (lack of) effort that has been put in thus far, but in all honesty, it isn't all that different from the tail end of last season. The same part of the season that most people seem to ignore when talking about expectations for this year.
Having said that, Bolton still has a few hoops to jump through and is still largely unproven.
We'll see how different the regular season is compared to practice matches and it'll give a bit of an insight into what to expect.
The confusion arises because you've been far too strident and vehement in your pro Mick comments - you need to be more balanced, like me.
One bad apple can spoil the entire barrel.
If we don't have players in it for the team first, then they will spoil some of the others.
I think players can tolerate a small amount of me me me attitude if they see reward for effort. You can have a great team first player (e.g. Cas or Curnow E), but those turnovers and missed goals must take their toll after a while.
It depends on the composition of the team - some blokes are less resilient and more easily led astray than others. If by good chance you have a team of mostly resilient types, they could reap the benefits of a talented and slightly selfish player, because they work work around his deficiencies.
A lot of those elite talented players (Fev, Fyfe, Carey etc.) do have a certain arrogance and me first nature - what is super rare are the Judd and Doull types, terrific players that are also team first.
The confusion arises because you've been far too strident and vehement in your pro Mick comments - you need to be more balanced, like me.
Last time.
'Pro mick' or 'anti-others'?
Your take on that depends on your point of view.
MBB understands a lot of what i say because he sees it for what it is. Not so much pro-mick, but a lot of $h!t everywhere else.
I think players can tolerate a small amount of me me me attitude if they see reward for effort. You can have a great team first player (e.g. Cas or Curnow E), but those turnovers and missed goals must take their toll after a while.
It depends on the composition of the team - some blokes are less resilient and more easily led astray than others. If by good chance you have a team of mostly resilient types, they could reap the benefits of a talented and slightly selfish player, because they work work around his deficiencies.
A lot of those elite talented players (Fev, Fyfe, Carey etc.) do have a certain arrogance and me first nature - what is super rare are the Judd and Doull types, terrific players that are also team first.
Only a strong team ethos can sort out the me first players.
They need to join it.
We are the opposite. due to average quality being so low, any half talent with a bad attitude plays for themselves.
Flip it around and you see us of the mid 2000's and there is no end to it until you shock the culture.
Last time.
'Pro mick' or 'anti-others'?
Your take on that depends on your point of view.
MBB understands a lot of what i say because he sees it for what it is. Not so much pro-mick, but a lot of $h!t everywhere else.
Dude, everybody thinks they see it for what it is, not just you.
Last time.
'Pro mick' or 'anti-others'?
Your take on that depends on your point of view.
MBB understands a lot of what i say because he sees it for what it is. Not so much pro-mick, but a lot of $h!t everywhere else.
So you're both delusional ;)
Strong captain. Strong captain. Strong captain. C:-)
Dude, everybody thinks they see it for what it is, not just you.
Cmon man, focus.
I'm saying you interpreting MY posts is based on your views.
I know the intention behind them because they are MY posts. If you misunderstand them then that is on you. Ala your Ratten comments before.
I am slightly disappointed with the (lack of) effort that has been put in thus far, but in all honesty, it isn't all that different from the tail end of last season. The same part of the season that most people seem to ignore when talking about expectations for this year.
I think most folk are very aware of the poor finish to last year when they speak of improvement this year.
But we look back to some of the early games and see the effort was there.
Is it not reasonable to expect that rather than dropping off this season that effort can be sustained a little longer.
Is it not reasonable to believe that our forward line will improve on last year's dismal efforts.
Is it not reasonable to believe that our players further down the field can provide our forwards with more scoring opportunities.
The big barrier to our ladder and win/loss improvement will be if the teams below us improve at a faster rate and not enough sides drop off.
I think most folk are very aware of the poor finish to last year when they speak of improvement this year.
But we look back to some of the early games and see the effort was there.
Is it not reasonable to expect that rather than dropping off this season that effort can be sustained a little longer.
Is it not reasonable to believe that our forward line will improve on last year's dismal efforts.
Is it not reasonable to believe that our players further down the field can provide our forwards with more scoring opportunities.
The big barrier to our ladder and win/loss improvement will be if the teams below us improve at a faster rate and not enough sides drop off.
Possible? Yes.
Reasonable? Maybe.
You can look back to early games whenever we've had a coaching change in the past and seen the effort was there. Then there is always/eventually a drop off in effort and then the coach is sacked.
Now i'm not expected our coach to be sacked.
But it doesn't necessarily follow that we will automatically get better this year.
Of course from our JLT matches, others around us are clearly ahead of us in the early stages.
Possible? Yes.
Reasonable? Maybe.
You can look back to early games whenever we've had a coaching change in the past and seen the effort was there. Then there is always/eventually a drop off in effort and then the coach is sacked.
Now i'm not expected our coach to be sacked.
But it doesn't necessarily follow that we will automatically get better this year.
Of course from our JLT matches, others around us are clearly ahead of us in the early stages.
I wouldn't take much notice of the second JLT game...we were giving a few folk a farewell game.
The third one was much better but we still had a few going at less than 100%
Let's have a look at it after about 5 rounds and I think we'll have a good idea about how we're tracking.
Cmon man, focus.
I'm saying you interpreting MY posts is based on your views.
I know the intention behind them because they are MY posts. If you misunderstand them then that is on you. Ala your Ratten comments before.
My powers of focusing are more than adequate, thanks for asking.
It's a shame that your support for Ratts waned right at the very time it was most needed.
I can understand certain folks believing a change was in order - I can understand people seeing cultural problems etc. But the change needed was internal, not external. More support for the incumbent coach, a good analysis of what was needed, what went wrong etc. And back him in for 2013. Then, if that season was a flop, by all means, move on. Momentum is a critical thing in situations like this. The timing of the change was completely wrong. I would've been 100% supportive of a change at the end of 2013, if it was justified.
The club learned nothing from the Britts/Pagan changeover, and we are all paying the price now.
I don't buy the rookie coach argument - Clarkson, Bomber, Bevo were all rookie coaches, who, luckily for them, ended up at clubs with more brains and more coglioni than ours.
could we just talk about the footy please!
OK.
I thought Bolton can across as a little deflated after the Freo game, particularly in regards to skill levels and turnovers. The man looked flat.
could we just talk about the footy please!
Yep
@ Kruds and Paul...I think that's pretty much sorted guys but if not you could probably take it to PM's.
Malthouse and Ratten are legitimate topics.... even if they probably have been done to death, but use one of the threads in the Coaches Box section to continue that debate.
OK.
I thought Bolton can across as a little deflated after the Freo game, particularly in regards to skill levels and turnovers. The man looked flat.
I think he has an enormous task on his plate and we'll probably see the effects of that on his demeanour as the season progresses.
Obama's hair turned grey with the responsibilities of the Presidency.
I suspect Bolton has a bigger job. :)
Yep
@ Kruds and Paul...I think that's pretty much sorted guys but if not you could probably take it to PM's.
Malthouse and Ratten are legitimate topics.... even if they probably have been done to death, but use one of the threads in the Coaches Box section to continue that debate.
Apologies ladies and gents. No doubt the temptation will always be there, but I'll try to resist as much as possible.
Re Weitering. I've been saying it, play him at CHF. I know he;'s young but if you're good enough, you're good enough.
He can still switch back if need be.
The team for me is Weitering at CHF and Marchbank at CHB. I'd have those two able to swap positions at times in those two key posts.
Think Marchbank will become more than a key defender. Onball/Forward for him at some point.
So from that much improved (yet still skills error riddled) games against Freo, we have found two legit young forwards to build around - Weitering and Pickett.
Young Pickett has some Jeffy Farmer about him. He's a natural up forward, as is Weitering, who I think has the Lance Whitnall footy nous. Invaluable.
Re Weitering. I've been saying it, play him at CHF. I know he;'s young but if you're good enough, you're good enough.
If they play him forward I'll be so pissed off, he's got a decade of AFL football ahead of him, we don't have to throw him to the wolves in his second season!
If they play him forward I'll be so pissed off, he's got a decade of AFL football ahead of him, we don't have to throw him to the wolves in his second season!
Fully understandable LP. I think he'll need some time down back also.
I think he has an enormous task on his plate and we'll probably see the effects of that on his demeanour as the season progresses.
Obama's hair turned grey with the responsibilities of the Presidency.
I suspect Bolton has a bigger job. :)
Agree Lods. BB will be severely tested in the coming couple of years to be sure and I put it down to an ingrained "culture" with a few of the "senior" players that will persist until we can offload them all. Our future is definitely with our present youth and who we might be able to bring in over the next 2 - 3 years. BB just has to try and survive that period and to do that he needs to show progress in the way that we play and in getting enough morale boosting wins. I wish him well but it's a bl00dy tough gig imo.
Re Weitering. I've been saying it, play him at CHF. I know he;'s young but if you're good enough, you're good enough.
He can still switch back if need be.
The team for me is Weitering at CHF and Marchbank at CHB. I'd have those two able to swap positions at times in those two key posts.
Think Marchbank will become more than a key defender. Onball/Forward for him at some point.
So from that much improved (yet still skills error riddled) games against Freo, we have found two legit young forwards to build around - Weitering and Pickett.
Young Pickett has some Jeffy Farmer about him. He's a natural up forward, as is Weitering, who I think has the Lance Whitnall footy nous. Invaluable.
x2....You need to kick goals to win games and we just cant do that with the players we have down forward, if Weitering can establish himself down forward its going to make it easier for
Harry McKay, SOSOS and Patrick Kerr to slot in when their turn comes.
Its a a fair load on Weitering but I think he can handle it as he is so mature and advanced compared to most newbie players...
x2....You need to kick goals to win games and we just cant do that with the players we have down forward, if Weitering can establish himself down forward its going to make it easier for
Harry McKay, SOSOS and Patrick Kerr to slot in when their turn comes.
Its a a fair load on Weitering but I think he can handle it as he is so mature and advanced compared to most newbie players...
Yep agree elwood.
Think Weitering, Pickett, Jack Silvagni, Charlie Curnow, Wright and Casboult are a good start in the forward line.
Harry McKay and Pat Kerr in time also we hope. You could add other crumbers in SPS, Lebois and Sumner too. Think young Lebois, with Pickett, could make for a brilliant tandem.
Casboult and Kreuzer swpping tall forward/ruck gives us a big monster up forward also.
I think Marchbank, and Plowman too, are more than capable up forward. Rowe is another.
I think Marchbank, and Plowman too, are more than capable up forward. Rowe is another.
Cmon Pratty lets not get too carried away.
MORE THAN capable? They are still proving if they are capable down back.
I agree that there is potential for them to play both, as well as rowe, as well as weitering.
BUT, is there any danger that we can find a player that is 'more than capable up forward' who isn't better suited to the backline?
So many basic skill errors, balls being kick OOF and dropped marks we should take.
They say they don't punish skill errors, but our gameplan and winning the footy seem fine, we just fail to execute over and over again. Marchbank the worst offender across these games.
Also anyone worried how often we are getting beaten over the back? This is a Bolton thing, and hope it gets rectified asap.
Someone said Sandilands killed Kreuzer? MK clearly won that battle and he looks to be in good form heading into Round 1.
Picket played himself into Round 1, Armfield played himself out of it.
So many basic skill errors, balls being kick OOF and dropped marks we should take.
They say they don't punish skill errors, but our gameplan and winning the footy seem fine, we just fail to execute over and over again. Marchbank the worst offender across these games.
Also anyone worried how often we are getting beaten over the back? This is a Bolton thing, and hope it gets rectified asap.
Someone said Sandilands killed Kreuzer? MK clearly won that battle and he looks to be in good form heading into Round 1.
Picket played himself into Round 1, Armfield played himself out of it.
Sandilands smashed Kruezer in the ruck but our man had more of the ball around the ground...37 hitouts to 15 is a fair beating in the ruck IMO especially as the Freo man had a decent amount of those hitouts to
advantage....I thought Sandi's hitouts were more effective than MK's possies......surprised to see Murphy had 27 possies, didnt seem that influential...
Sandi will ALWAYS win Hitouts. We won the clearance count by 1.
Sandilands smashed Kruezer in the ruck but our man had more of the ball around the ground...37 hitouts to 15 is a fair beating in the ruck IMO especially as the Freo man had a decent amount of those hitouts to
advantage....I thought Sandi's hitouts were more effective than MK's possies......surprised to see Murphy had 27 possies, didnt seem that influential...
Murphy hasn't been influential because he isn't kicking the ball much. On the weekend he has 17 hb/10 kicks, with only 63% DE. A lot of those handballs are short to guys under pressure, or he turned the ball over.
Given how poor the general skills are, especially the kicking of Kerridge and Curnow, we really need Murphy [and Gibbs] kicking the ball more often and spotting up targets upfield and being creative. He racks up decent numbers, but like Gibbs, often has very limited impact on the game IMO.
Kruz tried his guts out, had 17 possessions and laid 7 tackles [game high]. He is running into some good form, and the only blight on his game was he also threw the ball onto his boot a few times and turned it over. I would love to see him have a big year, because if he plays well we are a much harder side to beat.
Sandi will ALWAYS win Hitouts. We won the clearance count by 1.
How effective were his hitouts vs our clearances?.....a lot of our clearances end up nowhere....
Kruezer should get his chance to dominate vs ex Swan Namkervis and the ageing Maric when we play the Tigers...we will have to do better
than one clearance advantage though...
Trying to find a positive EB. Thought Kreuzer looked the best player for large periods. Was happy with what I saw.
Murphy hasn't been influential because he isn't kicking the ball much. On the weekend he has 17 hb/10 kicks, with only 63% DE. A lot of those handballs are short to guys under pressure, or he turned the ball over.
Given how poor the general skills are, especially the kicking of Kerridge and Curnow, we really need Murphy [and Gibbs] kicking the ball more often and spotting up targets upfield and being creative. He racks up decent numbers, but like Gibbs, often has very limited impact on the game IMO.
Kruz tried his guts out, had 17 possessions and laid 7 tackles [game high]. He is running into some good form, and the only blight on his game was he also threw the ball onto his boot a few times and turned it over. I would love to see him have a big year, because if he plays well we are a much harder side to beat.
Agreed. Kreuz is one of the very few senior guys who shows the kind of intensity and inspiration needed. OK he makes a mistake here and there, but if everyone put in like him we'd be in a much better place.
Agreed. Kreuz is one of the very few senior guys who shows the kind of intensity and inspiration needed. OK he makes a mistake here and there, but if everyone put in like him we'd be in a much better place.
Couldn't agree more - he always gives a contest and asserts a physical presence that is sorely lacking. The fact that he topped the tackles is a great general indicator of endeavour and effort, and we desperately need Gibbs, Murph and Thomas to display the same kind of intensity. It's been sorely missing so far, but hopefully they can flick the switch in 10 days time........ Here's hoping!!
Trying to find a positive EB. Thought Kreuzer looked the best player for large periods. Was happy with what I saw.
Shadesy...Pickett, Marchbank were my positives and I thought Weitering showed plenty up forward..I wasnt unhappy with Kruezers game and 17 possies is a good effort ..I just thought
Sandilands especially in the 1st half was a big factor....reckon the 3rd man up rule hurt us a bit too, Cripps might have stolen a few boundary throw ins if Kruezer was able to block
out the big bloke..
I rate Marchbank, but has made some basic howling errors across the preseason.
Murphy hasn't been influential because he isn't kicking the ball much. On the weekend he has 17 hb/10 kicks, with only 63% DE. A lot of those handballs are short to guys under pressure, or he turned the ball over.
Unfortunately, this seems to be accurate.
It appears to be a facet of the game plan this year, i.e. lots of short quick hand passes to try and get the ball to a player under less pressure. Laudable idea if players have the skill and anticipation to carry it off; laughable otherwise.
I'll ask the question - if Weitering plays forward this year (and beyond) what happens to Charlie Curnow?
Can we have a forward line of Casboult, Weitering and Curnow in 2017 and expect results? Big ask of a couple of 19-20 olds but I guess pressure makes diamonds.
I'll ask the question - if Weitering plays forward this year (and beyond) what happens to Charlie Curnow?
Can we have a forward line of Casboult, Weitering and Curnow in 2017 and expect results? Big ask of a couple of 19-20 olds but I guess pressure makes diamonds.
Easy fixed.
Get rid of casboult. ;)
He is not the future. Weitering and Curnowfides are.
Yep agree elwood.
Think Weitering, Pickett, Jack Silvagni, Charlie Curnow, Wright and Casboult are a good start in the forward line.
Harry McKay and Pat Kerr in time also we hope. You could add other crumbers in SPS, Lebois and Sumner too. Think young Lebois, with Pickett, could make for a brilliant tandem.
Casboult and Kreuzer swpping tall forward/ruck gives us a big monster up forward also.
I think Marchbank, and Plowman too, are more than capable up forward. Rowe is another.
Sound analyses as usual EB and Pratty, but I have a couple of qualifications. If Rowe plays forward it should be very occasionally and he must be instructed to take the shot every time he gets the ball inside 50. He is a good kick for goal but not so good at hitting a target. I would only play Plowman forward if there was a match up that suited. Zach Tuohy would one such match up with Plowman having the ability to stop Tuohy's run and exploit his loose checking.
Unfortunately, this seems to be accurate.
It appears to be a facet of the game plan this year, i.e. lots of short quick hand passes to try and get the ball to a player under less pressure. Laudable idea if players have the skill and anticipation to carry it off; laughable otherwise.
RR - It's the Bulldog model and it's all the rage - but it is high risk, high return. The problem I see is if you use this method for it to work well you need to outnumber the opposition at the contest, and be able to spread hard to create the free man to give the handball too who can then kick it. You also need good close in skills, and good decision making and vision about who to give the ball too.
We lack a lot of those skill fundamentals, and even Murphy and Gibbs are not great at it as mentioned above. And hand balling to Cripps, Curnow or Kerridge [just to name a few] for them to kick it is a recipe for a turnover.
But no matter what your game style is, when you have as many poorly skilled players and players with poor decision making as we do you are going to struggle big time.
It's been a very uninspiring pre-season for me this year. But still a few positives.
LeBois, what a 1st kick, in your AFL debut!! Not much else to go on, but he did provide that 1 little bit of excitement.
No SPS yet, but Fisher, Polson and Macreadie all showed some green shoots, with the chances they were given.
Marchbank and Pickett are both showing that they will add something to our best 22.
Palmer and Smedts have not done a lot to excite, yet, but for me, I'm just happy see Smedts string 3 games togather. I think he has a lot of upside and potential, that can come to the fore, if he can get some continuity into his games played.
2 wins for the NB's in their 1st two praccy matches is also a promising sign IMO, Sheehan, playing well in these games is also pleasing.
I'm coming down to see us in round 1 against the Tiges, I don't really know what to expect, so all I am really hoping for will be 120 minutes of effort, and see where that gets us!
It's been a very uninspiring pre-season for me this year. But still a few positives.
LeBois, what a 1st kick, in your AFL debut!! Not much else to go on, but he did provide that 1 little bit of excitement.
No SPS yet, but Fisher, Polson and Macreadie all showed some green shoots, with the chances they were given.
Marchbank and Pickett are both showing that they will add something to our best 22.
Palmer and Smedts have not done a lot to excite, yet, but for me, I'm just happy see Smedts string 3 games togather. I think he has a lot of upside and potential, that can come to the fore, if he can get some continuity into his games played.
2 wins for the NB's in their 1st two praccy matches is also a promising sign IMO, Sheehan, playing well in these games is also pleasing.
I'm coming down to see us in round 1 against the Tiges, I don't really know what to expect, so all I am really hoping for will be 120 minutes of effort, and see where that gets us!
A bit of reason amongst all the naysayers....cheers Amers.
My bottom line - we'll do a lot better than our 2016 effort.
Need to beat the Tigers and watch the boys' confidence soar!
If Gibbs and Murphy can replicate Cripps' intensity Rd 1 and on, we'll scare a lot of teams....
Kerridge? Backwards at a rate of knots? Maybe needs time in the 2s?
Curnow (Ed?) - i thought his kicking came on heaps last year.....perhaps it's the pressure or perceived pressure the players are under....
I note the Cats are trialling Harry T. up forward.....
I note the Cats are trialling Harry T. up forward.....
People will make analogies to Weitering, but there is a big difference between swinging a tenth year player around and a kid in his 2nd year.
Taylor knows the game, can switch back to his default defence at the flick of a switch like he never missed a beat.
Despite just how good Jacob Weitering is, he is just a kid learning the ropes. Let Weitering learn the ropes, and in two or three years he'll be another Harry Taylor, Jarryd Roughead or maybe even a Stephen Silvagni.
People will make analogies to Weitering, but there is a big difference between swinging a tenth year player around and a kid in his 2nd year.
Taylor knows the game, can switch back to his default defence at the flick of a switch like he never missed a beat.
Despite just how good Jacob Weitering is, he is just a kid learning the ropes. Let Weitering learn the ropes, and in two or three years he'll be another Harry Taylor, Jarryd Roughead or maybe even a Stephen Silvagni.
i was aware that Harry was a tad more seasoned than Jacob!
the only thing I got out of that, is that Lachie is clearly doing a sterling job as the swingman at the cattery!
Cats are getting desparate... Harry T is a doofus when he plays forward, works ok as a short term shock tactic but he gets lost and vanishes when playing full games up front. Shows the over-reliance on the lug at FF and the lack of reliable forward options.
I thought Touhy was shown up really badly as well.
Cats are getting desparate... Harry T is a doofus when he plays forward, works ok as a short term shock tactic but he gets lost and vanishes when playing full games up front. Shows the over-reliance on the lug at FF and the lack of reliable forward options.
I thought Touhy was shown up really badly as well.
I agree Prof,,, HT is fairly uninspiring when played forward and looks lost, Cats are desperate to get the heat off Hawkins and got desperate by moving HT IMO....hence why they recruited Henderson to play down back and cover for HT. They should have recruited a young CHF instead of trying to cheat with Taylor.
I think Weitering looks the part and being younger can learn to play down forward, its worth trying IMO.
I agree Prof,,, HT is fairly uninspiring when played forward and looks lost, Cats are desperate to get the heat off Hawkins and got desperate by moving HT IMO....hence why they recruited Henderson to play down back and cover for HT. They should have recruited a young CHF instead of trying to cheat with Taylor.
I think Weitering looks the part and being younger can learn to play down forward, its worth trying IMO.
I agree but in short bursts only.
Very risky playing this 'kid' week in week out as a key forward when we are so deficient and desperate for someone to stand up at that end of the ground. I can see it already he will be under the spotlight with majority of supporters will soon forget his age and stage being critical of him if he doesn't have an impact. In our side he could get the best defender some weeks and/or at best, the second best opposition defender - tough gig for youngstar.
Is this the best thing for him longterm or just what we need so we will push him to fill a important gap at any cost.
Yet playing back (the positon he was recruited to play) he usually gets the 3rd best defender, can intercept mark and not be in everyone's sights as the man we need to make an impact. He just develops slowly as he should. Its only his 2nd year and seems to me that we are throwing him to the wolves in an attempt to get a tough position covered.
Is this what the better teams would do? I think not.
Cripps and him are our best hopes - Cripps already is getting banged up - lets not do the same to Weitering.
I agree but in short bursts only.
Very risky playing this 'kid' week in week out as a key forward when we are so deficient and desperate for someone to stand up at that end of the ground. I can see it already he will be under the spotlight with majority of supporters will soon forget his age and stage being critical of him if he doesn't have an impact. In our side he could get the best defender some weeks and/or at best, the second best opposition defender - tough gig for youngstar.
Is this the best thing for him longterm or just what we need so we will push him to fill a important gap at any cost.
Yet playing back (the positon he was recruited to play) he usually gets the 3rd best defender, can intercept mark and not be in everyone's sights as the man we need to make an impact. He just develops slowly as he should. Its only his 2nd year and seems to me that we are throwing him to the wolves in an attempt to get a tough position covered.
Is this what the better teams would do? I think not.
Cripps and him are our best hopes - Cripps already is getting banged up - lets not do the same to Weitering.
Take your point Shawny and I dont want him banged up like Cripps got last season...if he starts to look run down then I would expect the coach to look after him and maybe even give him a
week off or less taxing position as required...
Does anybody know where Charlie C is at?
Does anybody know where Charlie C is at?
I haven't heard a whisper since he hobbled off, the club must be improving! :D
I suppose we will know what is going on at 4:30pm on the 23rd.
The Weitering situation is an interesting one.
It's a bit of a catch 22
Play him forward and bolster the forward line and I suspect he'd soon be drawing a fair bit of attention.
But if you don't play him back and the forward line remains a dysfunctional mess the ball will come bouncing back into the backline and he'll be under immense pressure down there.
Poor kid's going to cop the attention wherever he plays.
The Weitering situation is an interesting one.
It's a bit of a catch 22
Play him forward and bolster the forward line and I suspect he'd soon be drawing a fair bit of attention.
But if you don't play him back and the forward line remains a dysfunctional mess the ball will come bouncing back into the backline and he'll be under immense pressure down there.
Poor kid's going to cop the attention wherever he plays.
Again, a lot depends on how our midfield stacks up this year.
Will Murphy get back to near best? Will Gibbs give a f...or is he thinking I wanna go home? Will SPS add much in Season 1?
At least we know what Cripps will bring!
I agree but in short bursts only.
Very risky playing this 'kid' week in week out as a key forward when we are so deficient and desperate for someone to stand up at that end of the ground. I can see it already he will be under the spotlight with majority of supporters will soon forget his age and stage being critical of him if he doesn't have an impact. In our side he could get the best defender some weeks and/or at best, the second best opposition defender - tough gig for youngstar.
Is this the best thing for him longterm or just what we need so we will push him to fill a important gap at any cost.
Yet playing back (the positon he was recruited to play) he usually gets the 3rd best defender, can intercept mark and not be in everyone's sights as the man we need to make an impact. He just develops slowly as he should. Its only his 2nd year and seems to me that we are throwing him to the wolves in an attempt to get a tough position covered.
Is this what the better teams would do? I think not.
Cripps and him are our best hopes - Cripps already is getting banged up - lets not do the same to Weitering.
Bolton made sure that Weitering played on the competition's best forwards in his first season and he looked comfortable matched up with Franklin, the Riewoldts, Kennedy etc. He has also looked comfortable leading into space as a forward.
I think that Weitering's development may progress more smoothly if he is able to focus largely on playing one position. However, it's irrelevant whether that position is as a defender or a forward. If he is to be used as a forward from time to time, I would prefer to see him starting there rather than being switched during the game.
One of the reasons Weitering was recruited is because he can play forward and back.
From what I've read (from memory), he played quite a lot of junior footy as a forward?
Others care to comment?
From what I've read (from memory), he played quite a lot of junior footy as a forward?
Others care to comment?
Yes, he spent a lot of time in his junior days and school football playing CHF. Of course at that level he was significantly better than opponents. In school football I watched teams like Carey or Marcellin stand multiple opponents on him to try and stop his influence.
In one match he was knocked out cold by having to deal with two KPDs contesting a mark while the opposition midfielders jumped into him from front on. He marked the ball on the HFF but hit the ground out cold still holding the footy, the crooked umpires never even awarded a free kick and rather than paying the mark they re-started the game by a ball up after the ambulance which collected Weiters left the field! Weiters school lost the game by a goal!
In his local footy league one day, prior to his senior school footy days, I saw him kick about a dozen goals for Mount Martha in the first half then change teams and kick about a dozen goals for the opposition in the second half. In those leagues, U14 / U15, clubs are impelled to avoid blowouts so it happens sometimes that a superstar will switch teams temporarily.
One thing of interest to readers, a kid who many considered a better footballer than Weiters, not definitively better but marginally better, and touted by many as the next SOS. No longer plays football at all, primarily because of being disheartened by the nepotism that occurs at TAC Cup development levels.
Bolton made sure that Weitering played on the competition's best forwards in his first season and he looked comfortable matched up with Franklin, the Riewoldts, Kennedy etc. He has also looked comfortable leading into space as a forward.
I think that Weitering's development may progress more smoothly if he is able to focus largely on playing one position. However, it's irrelevant whether that position is as a defender or a forward. If he is to be used as a forward from time to time, I would prefer to see him starting there rather than being switched during the game.
One of the reasons Weitering was recruited is because he can play forward and back.
BB has made it pretty clear that Weitering will be playing mostly in defence in 2017.
There will be an occaisional gig as a forward.
Very sensible in the first few seasons.
What a difficult balancing act with Weits. Our forward line is one of the worst, if not THE worst in the league so it's almost a case of necessity to play him there more often than you might otherwise want. Harry is a work in progress and will take time and Casboult is just an 'almost' player - takes a good mark from time to time... the end.
We'll have to get games into Harry but expectations will remain modest for his influence in games. Our midfielders and small / medium forwards will have to impact the scoreboard much more. I hope SOS2's form in the season proper improves on what he dished up in the JLT series.
What a difficult balancing act with Weits. Our forward line is one of the worst, if not THE worst in the league so it's almost a case of necessity to play him there more often than you might otherwise want. Harry is a work in progress and will take time and Casboult is just an 'almost' player - takes a good mark from time to time... the end.
We'll have to get games into Harry but expectations will remain modest for his influence in games. Our midfielders and small / medium forwards will have to impact the scoreboard much more. I hope SOS2's form in the season proper improves on what he dished up in the JLT series.
Good summary there Baggers...Harry Mac is an interesting player, looks a bit lost at the minute but I reckon his progress
will be similar to Daniher from Essendon and its a case of being patient and getting games into him...those expecting bags of goals and a young Kernahan type might have to temper expectations.
SOS2...might just have been cruising in the JLT games...think he will be value this season and our leading goalkicker.......if Palmer, Smedts and Pickett can give us something we might sneak a few more goals and at least be competitive..
Good summary there Baggers...Harry Mac is an interesting player, looks a bit lost at the minute but I reckon his progress
will be similar to Daniher from Essendon and its a case of being patient and getting games into him...those expecting bags of goals and a young Kernahan type might have to temper expectations.
SOS2...might just have been cruising in the JLT games...think he will be value this season and our leading goalkicker.......if Palmer, Smedts and Pickett can give us something we might sneak a few more goals
and at least be competitive..
Weiters and SOJ, as 2nd year players, will probably get 2nd year blues.
Our Forward line will Continue to Struggle until:
1. We look at 40+ entries a game
2. We decide that panicked kicks to the top of the square is not the best decision.
Our Forward line will Continue to Struggle until:
1. We look at 40+ entries a game
2. We decide that panicked kicks to the top of the square is not the best decision.
It would be safe to say that strategy is not one endorsed by the coaching staff but rather one devised (on the run I'd imagine) by some of our less intelligent players.
Our Forward line will Continue to Struggle until:
1. We look at 40+ entries a game
2. We decide that panicked kicks to the top of the square is not the best decision.
We averaged 50+ I50s last year!
The problem seems to be poor scoring efficiency from I50, not an inability to get I50s.
For 2016 looking at I50 relative to the ladder, it's not perfect but if you do I50 For / Against you find the positive percentage will give a good indicator of ladder position. But even on that we are far from the worst, we had 1116 For / 1148 Against.
btw., The worst club in the AFL last season was Freo averaging 45+ I50s.
We averaged 50+ I50s last year!
The problem seems to be poor scoring efficiency from I50, not an inability to get I50s.
For 2016 looking at I50 relative to the ladder, it's not perfect but if you do I50 For / Against you find the positive percentage will give a good indicator of ladder position. But even on that we are far from the worst, we had 1116 For / 1148 Against.
btw., The worst club in the AFL last season was Freo averaging 45+ I50s.
See point 2...
We do not hit up loose guys in our forward 50 and hit leading targets.
I call this the Josh Kennedy Syndrome. Poor guy lead and lead and lead and we used to kick it on Fevs head or Eddies head instead.
Bolton made sure that Weitering played on the competition's best forwards in his first season and he looked comfortable matched up with Franklin, the Riewoldts, Kennedy etc. He has also looked comfortable leading into space as a forward.
I think that Weitering's development may progress more smoothly if he is able to focus largely on playing one position. However, it's irrelevant whether that position is as a defender or a forward. If he is to be used as a forward from time to time, I would prefer to see him starting there rather than being switched during the game.
One of the reasons Weitering was recruited is because he can play forward and back.
Hopefully, if our coach is as good as reported, then these two will have worked out a blueprint for Weitering for his entire career which incorporates the week to week.
In that open dialogue, Jacob would have identified what he wants to do, what role he sees himself performing in, and what KPI's he needs to meet to satisfy that criteria. They would also have recognised that along with that, the team will have priorities that need to be met, in order for the team to achieve success, as well as the individual and that occasions will arise where roles will need to be played out of necessity, and provided the open dialogue is there, then both coach and player can tick that off and the world keeps spinning. Some weeks, the KPI's will be met, and other weeks will be gap weeks where the player and coach will learn about how Jacob will need to develop his skills to satisfy all of the wants by coach, player and team.
Are we in the proffesional era?? this is where we are going and this is what I expect for not just Jacob, but each and all of our players moving forward. A regular catchup where these sorts of things are discussed.
See point 2...
We do not hit up loose guys in our forward 50 and hit leading targets.
I call this the Josh Kennedy Syndrome. Poor guy lead and lead and lead and we used to kick it on Fevs head or Eddies head instead.
That's fine, then your issue is efficiency, as long as it's clear we haven't a problem getting the ball into F50. Too many supporters believe our problem is mainly a midfield issue, getting more I50s won't help us. As you point out we burn the forwards and have been doing so for over a decade, and this is currently compounded by the reliance on Casboult to convert those times we actually deliver the ball correctly.
FWIW, highlighting our inefficiency even further, the Swans average was only marginally more than us at 56+ I50s a game.
Our Forward line will Continue to Struggle until:
1. We look at 40+ entries a game
2. We decide that panicked kicks to the top of the square is not the best decision.
Kicking in panic is the big problem. With the right players and the right set ups, smartly timed and placed kicks to the top of the goal square are as legitimate a goal scoring option as any other.
Kicking in panic is the big problem. With the right players and the right set ups, smartly timed and placed kicks to the top of the goal square are as legitimate a goal scoring option as any other.
Hopefully Pickett and LeBois/Polson/Sumner/SPS can start creating some real movement/fluidity/space in the forward line.....it's about having multiple legitimate options to goal, not just whether you're 199+cm.....
Hopefully Pickett and LeBois/Polson/Sumner/SPS can start creating some real movement/fluidity/space in the forward line.....it's about having multiple legitimate options to goal, not just whether you're 199+cm.....
I hope so.
Hopefully Pickett and LeBois/Polson/Sumner/SPS can start creating some real movement/fluidity/space in the forward line.....it's about having multiple legitimate options to goal, not just whether you're 199+cm.....
You can already see us trying to move the ball more deliberately during play. Where it falls over somewhat is that when the pressure builds, the players release option is to go long to a contest, and our players have historically had issues dealing with that inferred pressure and are prone to using this get out a little too frequently.
They will improve this in time, but until they do, expect to see the chaos ball more often than not.
Composure is something that is difficult to teach, but once learned will go a long way for us. Its one reason not to be overly concerned about players getting caught in possession because as they gain composure under pressure, they will invariably get caught more frequently as there is less rush involved in trying to build the play appropriately.
Ive watched Hawthorn do similar. They sometimes bomb away knowing that once it gets down there, the boys will lock it in and put the opposition on the back foot through their forward pressure. I think thats the part we do the worst rather than anything else. The ball seems to come back too easily rather than anything else.
Our Forward line will Continue to Struggle until:
1. We look at 40+ entries a game
2. We decide that panicked kicks to the top of the square is not the best decision.
3. We recruit and retain forwards who can kick goals at AFL level.
I don't disagree with what anybody has said, but for mine we have a serious lack of talented forwards and it is that, as much as anything, that will hold us back this year. And I don't mean putting all your eggs in one basket, we need 4-5 players who can kick 25+ goals.
The issue we have with Weitering now is created by the
massive hole we have on our list called 'Goal kicking forwards'. We have recruited a bunch of young guys to start filling this hole, but history tells you 1-2 at best will make it.
We still have Gorringe, Jones and KJ sitting on the list who were recruited to fill this hole, and I don't think there is a person on this site who can see any one of them playing anything other than occasional cameo. Which begs the question why are they still there, why didn't we cut our losses and take a punt on a mature aged rookie or 2 to try and fill the hole until Kerr/McKay are ready to make a serious impact [which is going to be 2-3 years best case].
Our inside 50 numbers are not that bad, but our conversion of i50's to scoring shots, and scoring shots into goals, is terrible as I have detailed in other threads. The teams with the most talented and deep forward line players [Adelaide / GWS / Hawthorn] convert their i50's into scoring shots about 50% of time, and convert 55% of those into goals. We convert only 40% of our i50's into shots, and convert 50% into goals. The skill level of your forwards, and the how many of them you have, will directly impact both these numbers significantly.
Bolton has already said it, but I agree with him, play Weiters back this year with the occasional qtr forward.
Put him on the best opposition forward every week, let him learn from that and then from 2018 onward play him as a permanent forward. That's how I see it.
On a totally different note, I want to see Jaksch given a chance with an extended run (3-4 games) as a forward, in the seniors. He can't be any worse than Casboult or Jones, and surely ahead of Mackay at the moment. I hope his papers have not been prematurely stamped. I'm not saying he will make it, but I reckon he deserves a chance to prove it 1 way or another.
Bolton has already said it, but I agree with him, play Weiters back this year with the occasional qtr forward.
Put him on the best opposition forward every week, let him learn from that and then from 2018 onward play him as a permanent forward. That's how I see it.
On a totally different note, I want to see Jaksch given a chance with an extended run (3-4 games) as a forward, in the seniors. He can't be any worse than Casboult or Jones, and surely ahead of Mackay at the moment. I hope his papers have not been prematurely stamped. I'm not saying he will make it, but I reckon he deserves a chance to prove it 1 way or another.
Couldn't agree more on KJ. Surely on the basis of a couple of ok pre season NB games he has to be given a shot to see if he can help the setup and structure of the forward line. With Gorringe injured, Jones underwhelming in his JLT appearance and McKay probably needing a few NB games under his belt to get his confidence up before playing up, it seems like the most sensible option we have.
If he doesn't get a gig now you would think he never would [barring total catastrophe], which begs the question what is he doing on the list then??
Couldn't agree more on KJ. Surely on the basis of a couple of ok pre season NB games he has to be given a shot to see if he can help the setup and structure of the forward line. With Gorringe injured, Jones underwhelming in his JLT appearance and McKay probably needing a few NB games under his belt to get his confidence up before playing up, it seems like the most sensible option we have.
If he doesn't get a gig now you would think he never would [barring total catastrophe], which begs the question what is he doing on the list then??
We need to find out the real truth about KJ as soon as possible! If he's any good by Christ we need him. If he's not, then at least we'll know and we can move on.
Bolton has already said it, but I agree with him, play Weiters back this year with the occasional qtr forward.
Put him on the best opposition forward every week, let him learn from that and then from 2018 onward play him as a permanent forward. That's how I see it.
On a totally different note, I want to see Jaksch given a chance with an extended run (3-4 games) as a forward, in the seniors. He can't be any worse than Casboult or Jones, and surely ahead of Mackay at the moment. I hope his papers have not been prematurely stamped. I'm not saying he will make it, but I reckon he deserves a chance to prove it 1 way or another.
Yes he can :(
I hope that Jaksch proves me wrong but, to borrow a line from Kruddler, he is unlikely to be our saviour. Unless he has had a significant change in attitude, application and effort, playing him for 3-4 games would be much like conceding defeat.
Yes he can :(
I hope that Jaksch proves me wrong but, to borrow a line from Kruddler, he is unlikely to be our saviour. Unless he has had a significant change in attitude, application and effort, playing him for 3-4 games would be much like conceding defeat.
Follow Nicky G and KJ on social media and you'll get an insight as to why they can't crack it for a game.
Follow Nicky G and KJ on social media and you'll get an insight as to why they can't crack it for a game.
I'm not a big user of social media - care to elaborate a little??
I'm not a big user of social media - care to elaborate a little??
x2
I'm not a big user of social media - care to elaborate a little??
Put it this way, they party a fair bit and a beer is never far out of shot. If I was a bloke, who for a host of reasons. wasnt getting a game? I'd be busting a nut 24/7 working on those things that would get me a game. This is the difference btw your Juddys, Crippas, etc and your KJs and Nickky Gs. Time is running out kiddies.
Well it would certainly explain the lack of game time, talent is there , shame to see it wasted if this is the case
Put it this way, they party a fair bit and a beer is never far out of shot. If I was a bloke, who for a host of reasons. wasnt getting a game? I'd be busting a nut 24/7 working on those things that would get me a game. This is the difference btw your Juddys, Crippas, etc and your KJs and Nickky Gs. Time is running out kiddies.
Sounds to me like they've just decided (rightly or otherwise) that they won't be playing senior footy, so they may as well enjoy themselves.
Lifestyle footy players.
Sounds to me like they've just decided (rightly or otherwise) that they won't be playing senior footy, so they may as well enjoy themselves.
Lifestyle footy players.
Probably. Perhaps they are just happy being on an AFL list. They clearly don't (or didn't) have the desire to leave no stone unturned.
Put it this way, they party a fair bit and a beer is never far out of shot. If I was a bloke, who for a host of reasons. wasnt getting a game? I'd be busting a nut 24/7 working on those things that would get me a game. This is the difference btw your Juddys, Crippas, etc and your KJs and Nickky Gs. Time is running out kiddies.
Would you want to be 'in the trenches' with blokes who have this attitude (assuming it's true)?
Would you want to be 'in the trenches' with blokes who have this attitude (assuming it's true)?
I probably should have said "appear to party alot" as I don't know for sure. What I also should have said is "compared to other players" on social media. I guess I am being picky on these blokes because bigger things were expected of them and they cant get a regular gig. Little things like how they come across on social media stand out to me. The better, more disciplined players fly under the radar (or at least seem to be gifted more latitude).
I probably should have said "appear to party alot" as I don't know for sure. What I also should have said is "compared to other players" on social media. I guess I am being picky on these blokes because bigger things were expected of them and they cant get a regular gig. Little things like how they come across on social media stand out to me. The better, more disciplined players fly under the radar (or at least seem to be gifted more latitude).
I think that's a fairer assessment G2C.
There may be many reasons why Graham and Jaksch can't cement a spot in the 22. Their social media activity may provide a clue ... or it may be completely irrelevant :-\
I guess you have to ask yourself how closely the stuff on social media reflects reality. I suspect there is a high degree of embellishment there.
I think that's a fairer assessment G2C.
There may be many reasons why Graham and Jaksch can't cement a spot in the 22. Their social media activity may provide a clue ... or it may be completely irrelevant :-\
+1
IMHO Social Media is the portrayel of a lifestyle, and not likely to be an accurate picture of how people live their lives.
Its arguable that some people who have a public profile, might not even do their own social media.
Even if it were true, Fev liked more than one beer and Id hazard that Tex Walker likes one too. Liking a beer on even a semi regular basis wont hold back a footy career.
If they drink heavily frequently that might do it, but even one beer a day wouldnt be a death knell provided they were not out until all hours and it didnt stop them from putting in the hard yards.
Thry, DJC and cookie, I would agree. The problem is that perception sometimes becomes 3/5 of reality, so anyone who knows they're not getting games in the seniors, and sees their social media status, would be tempted to put 2 and 2 together, and draw unfavorable conclusions. Perhaps they could post photos tweets etc. of themselves busting their guts at training, or something similar. If they're not working hard, at least look like they are.
Thry, DJC and cookie, I would agree. The problem is that perception sometimes becomes 3/5 of reality, so anyone who knows they're not getting games in the seniors, and sees their social media status, would be tempted to put 2 and 2 together, and draw unfavorable conclusions. Perhaps they could post photos tweets etc. of themselves busting their guts at training, or something similar. If they're not working hard, at least look like they are.
At least someone gets it. Perception is everything.
At least someone gets it. Perception is everything.
I said the very same thing in another thread and was shouted down, it is completely feasible that you can fake your way to success.
Thry, DJC and cookie, I would agree. The problem is that perception sometimes becomes 3/5 of reality, so anyone who knows they're not getting games in the seniors, and sees their social media status, would be tempted to put 2 and 2 together, and draw unfavorable conclusions. Perhaps they could post photos tweets etc. of themselves busting their guts at training, or something similar. If they're not working hard, at least look like they are.
Im with you when you say this. I battle perceptions frequently at work with regards to what people think we do, vs what we actually do.
The root of that is as follows:
The perception is eventually irrelevant provided the right people know what is going on.
These guys can do whatever they like in the social media scene. In reality, the AFL is very tight knit, and they all know who is doing what when.
That means our club knows who is doing what too. Including the most important, the coaching staff.
Im with you when you say this. I battle perceptions frequently at work with regards to what people think we do, vs what we actually do.
Do you actually KNOW what you are meant to do or do you just think you know what you're doing?
Perhaps your perception is that you know what you're doing when in reality others know and you don't. Your perception is your reality, meanwhile everyone else has a differing perception.
All this perception and reality stuff sounds good in practice, but it didn't save Robinson or Garlett, and both rate far higher as footballers than Jaksch or Graham.
Do you actually KNOW what you are meant to do or do you just think you know what you're doing?
Perhaps your perception is that you know what you're doing when in reality others know and you don't. Your perception is your reality, meanwhile everyone else has a differing perception.
Yes and no.
Sometimes its unclear but so long as I am following instruction its fine.
Either way, parallel my experience at work with Jaksch when I state the following.
I know, what I do at work.
My boss knows what I do at work.
That is the only part of that equation that matters irrespective of everyone else's perception.
Its why players continue getting picked when fans cannot figure out why (I can think of various examples of this across the journey) and it's why when people look like they are performing well, they get dropped.
Think about those things for a bit, and have a think about why a team that is having a hard time finishing the work in the forward line isn't selecting a bloke that has scored more goals this year for the Northern Blues, than our senior team did in round 2 of the JLT series.
I think everyone's perception of what is going there is irrelevant, and Ill defer to the coach. Or are we going to think that Bolton has no idea how to get the most of his players??
I think everyone's perception of what is going there is irrelevant, and Ill defer to the coach.
A novel idea Thry ;)
Who would have thought that the coach and match committee could know what they are doing?
I'm sure that blokes like Jaksch, Graham, Jones and Boekhorst know exactly what is expected of them but, for whatever reason, they just can't manage it consistently.
A novel idea Thry ;)
Who would have thought that the coach and match committee could know what they are doing?
I'm sure that blokes like Jaksch, Graham, Jones and Boekhorst know exactly what is expected of them but, for whatever reason, they just can't manage it consistently.
I reckon Jones's problem is different, its similar to Caz in that its btw the ears on game day. He trains the house down from all reports and is much liked by his team mates.
I reckon Jones's problem is different, its similar to Caz in that its btw the ears on game day. He trains the house down from all reports and is much liked by his team mates.
I think Jones work rate exceeds the other and by some margin, his problem is he just doesn't get enough of the footy.
I think Jones work rate exceeds the other and by some margin, his problem is he just doesn't get enough of the footy.
His big problem in game 2 was that we couldn't get the ball near him. He showed that he was 'on' with that great leap and mark. But he didn't have a decent opportunity again that day. He even ended up in the ruck when Korchek needed a rest.
I worry about Korchek because his stamina base is so low compared to rucks born to the game. He runs out of gas and requires times on the bench. Guys like Kreuzer may not have the height or the spring, but they don't run out of juice in 10 minutes.
His big problem in game 2 was that we couldn't get the ball near him. He showed that he was 'on' with that great leap and mark. But he didn't have a decent opportunity again that day. He even ended up in the ruck when Korchek needed a rest.
Why is that though?...Is it because he gets lost in traffic or does he work hard find space and get overlooked and/or suffer from poor delivery.
Why is that though?...Is it because he gets lost in traffic or does he work hard find space and get overlooked and/or suffer from poor delivery.
Jones seems to end up next to our other key forward quite often and that has led to some comical mix ups with Casboult.
I think that part of the problem is that our tall forwards don't have running patterns to create space and lose their defender (as Kreuzer did on one occasion against Freo). I'm not sure whether that's due to a lack of footy nous, the work in progress forward line or a combination.
I've mentioned thus before. Jones always ran to where Henderson was, clogging Hendersons space with an extra defender. He just doesn't run to smart places where he can get the ball in space and/or have a chance of scoring. Basically has no idea of leading patterns etc.
I've mentioned thus before. Jones always ran to where Henderson was, clogging Hendersons space with an extra defender. He just doesn't run to smart places where he can get the ball in space and/or have a chance of scoring. Basically has no idea of leading patterns etc.
Basically has no idea full stop.
I read alot about Weitering and where he is best suited but I think the real issue is where do we play Charlie Curnow. From the games I have seen, he is a natural new age midfielder that is big bodied and very Bont like. Is smart in close and handy on the outside. From what I hear, he has a great tank so I expect more midfield time this year. He'll lose form up forward as there will be limited entries into the 50. What are your thoughts?
I read alot about Weitering and where he is best suited but I think the real issue is where do we play Charlie Curnow. From the games I have seen, he is a natural new age midfielder that is big bodied and very Bont like. Is smart in close and handy on the outside. From what I hear, he has a great tank so I expect more midfield time this year. He'll lose form up forward as there will be limited entries into the 50. What are your thoughts?
I dubbed him Curnowfides very early on and part of the reason for that is he is very much in the same mould. Big kid who can run, jump and mark. Broad shoulders. Has a knack of doing things a little bit different to normal.
For the same reasons, he will play like Kouta did early on, everywhere. On a wing early on, with the ability to move to where the team is lacking.
Curnowfides will kick goals. He will take marks. He will run, carry, chase and tackle.
Where should he play? High half forward / wing while resting closer to goals.
I dubbed him Curnowfides very early on and part of the reason for that is he is very much in the same mould. Big kid who can run, jump and mark. Broad shoulders. Has a knack of doing things a little bit different to normal.
For the same reasons, he will play like Kouta did early on, everywhere. On a wing early on, with the ability to move to where the team is lacking.
Curnowfides will kick goals. He will take marks. He will run, carry, chase and tackle.
Where should he play? High half forward / wing while resting closer to goals.
He certainly had elite aerobic capacity prior to his problems, if he's 100% over the effects of his illness he should be our version of Fraser Gehrig in much the same way Gehrig ran a wing early on in his Wet Toast days.
@blueray
Great question.
If Charlie is fully healthy, I think he'll mainly play fwd with some time on the wing, and graduated exposure in the middle. As our fwd options increase (big H, Kerr and the like), he may well become crippa's partner in crime, resting fwd as a very dangerous option.
I read alot about Weitering and where he is best suited but I think the real issue is where do we play Charlie Curnow. From the games I have seen, he is a natural new age midfielder that is big bodied and very Bont like. Is smart in close and handy on the outside. From what I hear, he has a great tank so I expect more midfield time this year. He'll lose form up forward as there will be limited entries into the 50. What are your thoughts?
I imagine folk may be a little over my references to the chat I had with Ed Curnow at this time last year but I think that it's worth repeating Ed's assessment of his little brother. Ed said that Charlie is an elite mark and that is how he will make his name as an AFL footballer. We have seen a little of that already; Charlie reads the flight of the ball well, makes good position, has long arms and very sticky fingers.
I think that he is destined to play as a marking forward, but perhaps not as a KPF. He will also be called on to provide a marking option around the ground and, as he learns more about the game at AFL level, to rack up intercept marks.
He was part of the midfield rotation last season and in the JLT games and I think that he has shown enough to suggest that he will be a regular midfielder, but for limited times. I expect to see him spending more time in a role similar to that of Gunston.
For the record, I think that comparing Charlie with Anthony Koutoufides is a fatuous exercise and more than a little reminiscent of the inane comparisons of Tommy Bell with the great man. Of course, that's just my opinion ...
And from somewhere i read, still growing?
194cm odd now...
And from somewhere i read, still growing?
194cm odd now...
Based on the CFC website profiles (which admittedly aren't always 100%) Charlie Curnow is now 194cm.
Cripps in 195cm! (same height as KP players Weitering and Jaksch).
Both are taller than Plowman and Marchbank who we're marking down as key talls down back.