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Topic: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS (Read 13983 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #120
After last night's game I think we are both not far off being a good side yet still a million miles away. A lot of people have been critical of Dow but I thought his role was that of a defensive half-forward on Williams who didn't have an influence of the game. I would have liked Dow to win the ball more however. People have also been critical of Samo and Polson, (some are always critical of Polson), but I am not sure there opponents got much of the ball. I thought that Williamson and Jones combined to make three critical errors that cost us three goals, and considering we lost by nine points, these mistakes were costly.
I thought GWS came to play and the fact we stayed with them and then went ahead for most of the game was a positive, however I am not sure the team is fully committed to the game plan yet. I remember watching Sydney last year and watching how every Sydney player new exactly what to do. Basically Sydney have had two coaches in the past 19 seasons and there game plan is basically the same. We have had seven different coaches, each with there own styles. There has been no continuity in how we are suppose to play. I think Teague wants the players to drive the ball deep to the tall marking options at the top of the square, and I think the players want to do that, but under pressure they go short to players on fast leads 45 meters out.
I think while we won the inside contest quite well, when GWS won it in close they were more devastating getting it outside to their runners. And while we had in our F50 more, because we didn't deliver the ball to dangerous situations, and we didn't make the most of our opportunities, and because of our defensive errors, GWS was more effective when they went forward in the end.
We just need to get better at kicking goals.

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #121
I don't know what to make of this.   Is this a knock on Dow's personality?      Needs to be more extroverted?
Isn’t there a rumour going around he wants to be traded? I thought maybe he doesn’t want to be At the club. Yes he’s young and I was rapt for him when he got that goal early but many contests afterwards he spectated.

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #122
This Jekyll & Hyde stuff is getting beyond a joke! The Midgets were much better than us in the 1st but wasteful... we go inside 50 a few times for an incredible return/efficiency. Then the game is ours for two qtrs and can't convert. Then we go soft between the lugholes for about 10 minutes, enough time to hand them the game, then for a short period late in the game we own the game but stuff up everything. One off? Nuh... it's what we do... did it last week as well. We had 2 good sides in struggling form on toast in consecutive weeks yet become an undisciplined rabble for just enough time to give our struggling opponents the game. How many games this year have we owned for an extended period, only to turn out being our own worst enemies when our opponents get desperate and applied the screws? Poos in pants. All between the ears... still. Where's the mental toughness?

The Good:
We led for most of the night.
Weitering.
Walsh.
Boldness, taking risks.
We saw plenty of tenacity (but more cold ruthlessness & mental focus/toughness needed).
1st qtr i50 efficiency.

The Bad:
Final qtr capitulation, or rather a 10 minute capitulation but, hey, that's all it takes to lose (though we did wrestle back control late to only lose system and composure).
Failure to capitalise on created opportunity ...big time.
Forwards failure to adapt to increased pressure from opponents/lack of creativity and playing to strengths... got too individualistic.
Casboult's form.

The Ugly:
Disposal efficiency - symptom of panicky cr@p under pressure/mental fragility. When opponents apply real pressure we become a kind of 'kick and hope' group aka lose confidence aka mental weakness aka poos in pants.
Goal kicking though it does relate to above.

To say we have improved on previous years is absolutely correct BUT we consistently and persistently repeat the same mistakes that cost us wins - how many games this year have we had a qtr or two or just a 10 minute period of total capitulation, it's become habitual, predictable, almost ingrained. It'll be a cliche soon... our regular habit of surrender for a period. What worries me the most is that it seems so damned ingrained and you just wait for it to happen in every game.

Is it 'Henny Penny Sky Is Falling?' Nuh. Our weaknesses are glaring but we need people who can really address and remove these weaknesses from our game, our players, their heads!!!! Heading in the right direction? Yep, but to repeat the previous sentence we now need people who can force and secure 'the next step' - we're ready for new blood, ruthless new blood, uncompromising new blood, not 'sentimental' new blood (I can only assume when some blokes continue to perform poorly and we allow them senior selection that the MC is too sentimental)... new blood who've come from winning environments. And that starts with some changes in 1. the coaching box (can I repeat - a coupla assistants who've come from a winning culture?) and 2. the introduction of a coupla new, experienced, successful players from a strong, winning culture.

(Reposted to here... where it should have been in the first place, doh!)
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #123
FMD, after nearly 12 weeks of being the most exciting team to watch in the competition, just one dud game against GWS and the media are all over Carlton delivering a shizen to watch slugfest!

Back to normal! ;D


Two dud (FIlth and GWS) very important games.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #124
One final post on this thread for me. As bad as it has been for us long suffering supporters over the last 20 years (bar a couple of cameo years) I truly believe we have improved over that time. I remember back in the days when I first signed up to this blog a defeat usually had 15 to 20 pages of some serious vitriol. Nowadays it doesn't seem so bad or as savage. There are a fair amount of measured comment in amongst the angst. Then again maybe we've just been beaten into submission. On to next year.

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #125
Reality check: I watched the game again and GWS were carp and turned up half baked expecting us to roll over after losing to Collingwood, they played about 20 mins of reasonable football and won the game and thats what sucked after we led all night.
They had three good players and we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and what made it worse you could see it coming as a spectator. GWS were building with Greene leading the way and we just let it happen.
If you combine both our second halves from the last two weeks we have kicked one goal over the total period of a game, thats Mark Arceri stuff.
Leadership on the field has to get better, instead of slowing the game down and reducing momentum(Luke Hodge said same) we just continued to do the same stuff that was getting us nowhere.
Cripps and Docherty need to take more control and direct play better than they are doing....probably missing Daisy Thomas as a experienced winning voice on the field who could direct traffic and read the game better.


Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #126
Isn’t there a rumour going around he wants to be traded? I thought maybe he doesn’t want to be At the club. Yes he’s young and I was rapt for him when he got that goal early but many contests afterwards he spectated.

Be using “rumour” very loosely.   Haven’t seen this anywhere worth noting.

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #127
This Jekyll & Hyde stuff is getting beyond a joke! The Midgets were much better than us in the 1st but wasteful... we go inside 50 a few times for an incredible return/efficiency. Then the game is ours for two qtrs and can't convert. Then we go soft between the lugholes for about 10 minutes, enough time to hand them the game, then for a short period late in the game we own the game but stuff up everything. One off? Nuh... it's what we do... did it last week as well. We had 2 good sides in struggling form on toast in consecutive weeks yet become an undisciplined rabble for just enough time to give our struggling opponents the game. How many games this year have we owned for an extended period, only to turn out being our own worst enemies when our opponents get desperate and applied the screws? Poos in pants. All between the ears... still. Where's the mental toughness?

The Good:
We led for most of the night.
Weitering.
Walsh.
Boldness, taking risks.
We saw plenty of tenacity (but more cold ruthlessness & mental focus/toughness needed).
1st qtr i50 efficiency.

The Bad:
Final qtr capitulation, or rather a 10 minute capitulation but, hey, that's all it takes to lose (though we did wrestle back control late to only lose system and composure).
Failure to capitalise on created opportunity ...big time.
Forwards failure to adapt to increased pressure from opponents/lack of creativity and playing to strengths... got too individualistic.
Casboult's form.

The Ugly:
Disposal efficiency - symptom of panicky cr@p under pressure/mental fragility. When opponents apply real pressure we become a kind of 'kick and hope' group aka lose confidence aka mental weakness aka poos in pants.
Goal kicking though it does relate to above.

To say we have improved on previous years is absolutely correct BUT we consistently and persistently repeat the same mistakes that cost us wins - how many games this year have we had a qtr or two or just a 10 minute period of total capitulation, it's become habitual, predictable, almost ingrained. It'll be a cliche soon... our regular habit of surrender for a period. What worries me the most is that it seems so damned ingrained and you just wait for it to happen in every game.

Is it 'Henny Penny Sky Is Falling?' Nuh. Our weaknesses are glaring but we need people who can really address and remove these weaknesses from our game, our players, their heads!!!! Heading in the right direction? Yep, but to repeat the previous sentence we now need people who can force and secure 'the next step' - we're ready for new blood, ruthless new blood, uncompromising new blood, not 'sentimental' new blood (I can only assume when some blokes continue to perform poorly and we allow them senior selection that the MC is too sentimental)... new blood who've come from winning environments. And that starts with some changes in 1. the coaching box (can I repeat - a coupla assistants who've come from a winning culture?) and 2. the introduction of a coupla new, experienced, successful players from a strong, winning culture.

(Reposted to here... where it should have been in the first place, doh!)

Unfortunately, that's all part of progress of from zero to top side. We unfortunately have to go through alot of $hit during various stages of improvement. Same in any sport. Takes alot of work and doesn't happen overnight, even more so this year when you can't train with your full team, and not train much anyway with shortened breaks between games.  This year really favored the hardened, experienced team, who have they game style set in stone.

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #128
Reality check: I watched the game again and GWS were carp and turned up half baked expecting us to roll over after losing to Collingwood, they played about 20 mins of reasonable football and won the game and thats what sucked after we led all night.
They had three good players and we snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and what made it worse you could see it coming as a spectator. GWS were building with Greene leading the way and we just let it happen.
If you combine both our second halves from the last two weeks we have kicked one goal over the total period of a game, thats Mark Arceri stuff.
Leadership on the field has to get better, instead of slowing the game down and reducing momentum(Luke Hodge said same) we just continued to do the same stuff that was getting us nowhere.
Cripps and Docherty need to take more control and direct play better than they are doing....probably missing Daisy Thomas as a experienced winning voice on the field who could direct traffic and read the game better.

Yes, we've kicked 1.9 combined in the last 2 second halves. We had the shots in the 3rd qtr but kept missing. Last 7 second halves have been similar....13.42! Opportunities but inability to kick straight. Cost us games.

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #129
Good post re Daisy, he was a leader on field for sure.

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #130
Unfortunately, that's all part of progress of from zero to top side. We unfortunately have to go through alot of $hit during various stages of improvement. Same in any sport. Takes alot of work and doesn't happen overnight, even more so this year when you can't train with your full team, and not train much anyway with shortened breaks between games.  This year really favored the hardened, experienced team, who have they game style set in stone.

Agree. I'm sure we're close, but the next step requires that injection of newness... not a lot, but just enough to 'freshen' the message, hence changes in the coaching box. And most importantly, get assistants in who come from ruthless success / winning. Blokes who know the sacrifices, blokes who can recognize who will hurt to win.

Although I totally agreed with Mick McGuane's challenging article, I cannot see us retiring Tractor, Simmo, Edwardo or even Murphy all at once. Hey, pretend you don't know Simmo's age... and then watch his contribution match day - it's still there. Our most dangerous forwards over the past two weeks in big games have included Edwardo.

I'd be more inclined to trade away the 'experiments' that haven't worked. Cuningham is one, Moore is another. Cuningham would have currency but he just doesn't fit our need for consistency. Other clubs would welcome a 'burst' bloke on the outside who can break lines but then vanish for a while - that's a luxury we cannot afford. Tractor is the big one... and only the club knows if his body can handle a vigorous pre season then another season - I think not, ruck coaching - yep.

We're gong into a draft period with new cats at the helm. As we know I was not and am not a big wrap for SOS, no rose coloured glasses just because he was a champion player - hey, in a tv interview he claimed we would have taken Dow even if we had first pick. Plus we missed every big name we went after except for Martin who literally fell into our laps.

We've 3 games to go and I really hope we DO NOT play kids for the sake of it, positions must be earned. PLUS I really hope we DO NOT gift out of form experienced players. Macreadie, Philp and O'Brien have been knocking at the door.

I also like the suggestions from some here to be a little bold with experimentation, not enough to unsettle the side, though. Giving Jones a lash up forward would be worth trying along with Casboult down back as his forward work for more than a month now has been cr@p and he seemed to relish his time down back. Just thoughts.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #131
Next year, we say that every year, "they will lift next year". I think we have peaked with this group, I cant take the next step. Probably finish the same position next year, the problems (inaccuracy and by default goalless qtrs, brain fades) still exist. I cant see how they will be fixed other than by bringing new personnel...again.

We will only improve when they finally give the board the arse.

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #132
Dow is still playing U18 football, his kicking is one thing but his nous and awareness is poor and either he hasnt been coached well or he cant mentally handle the upgrade playing senior footy.
He has decent size, shape and can do the odd good piece of play like his goal vs GWS was well thought out but in general field play he becomes a novice kid like he is playing his first game.
On the wing he was cornered, ran into trouble and should have been pinged for throwing the ball but he gave up mentally in that contest, turned it over and couldnt think it through. He really needs a mentor like Chris Judd to work with if he is going to make it IMO or another club who might be able to coach him differently and make him grow up a bit quicker.
You look at Walsh and its like he is a 30 year old veteran comparing him to Dow who looks like a 1st year rookie...


I'm from Swan Hill where Dow was recruited from. I actually know his father well.  The knock on Dow was always his kicking...all through his junior footy.  This is not something that should have gone unnoticed by a shrewd recruiter.  You simply have to do your homework before you select someone with pick 3.  We didn't.

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #133
We will only improve when they finally give the board the arse.
How does giving the board the ass improve our onfield.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

 

Re: Post Game Commiserations AFL 2020 Rd 15: Carlton vs GWS

Reply #134
Says a bit. Things like this cost a season.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2020-carlton-david-teague-carlton-goal-kicking-carlton-gws-blues-giants-afl-round-15/news-story/dd6326cfe7a2760d6ff17b1c6fd2bc60?utm_source=afl_sportsmail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=crm&$3p=e_ab&$original_url=http://at.foxsports.com.au/link/dd6326cfe7a2760d6ff17b1c6fd2bc60?utm_source=afl_sportsmail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=crm&_branch_match_id=806814755332847399