Test 1, Aussies battling, 4-170 at Tea.
Marsh brothes in, Warner and Smith made 50s, Bancroft and Khawaja failed.
Test 1, Aussies battling, 4-170 at Tea.
Marsh brothes in, Warner and Smith made 50s, Bancroft and Khawaja failed.
5-225...even game but I think the Saffie batting is weaker with a few random unknowns in their lineup, you dont want to hit anything near AB DeVilliers he is about as safe a fielder as I have
seen and drops nothing...
Starc was great in the lead up game and I think he can run through the Saffies and we can win this game, they have some big name batters but the rest are no names IMO...bit of a test for Lyon as well, wasnt great vs the Saffie 2nd eleven and needs to adjust to the smaller grounds....
Cannot understand why they have Starc listed to bat above Cummins, I suspect this game is on a knife edge after just one day. Aussies need to get 350 and then I think they'll be unlucky to lose, if they get knocked over cheaply tomorrow they'll be in trouble.
I expect if the Aussies get 350 SA will try and bat two days for not much, to kill the result and keep the Aussies in the field. Excluding Markram who has only played six tests their whole batting line averages an SR=50 or below. They seem to take the position that the first step is to not lose, then if the opportunity arises try to win.
Might be a hard pitch to score runs on.
Might be a hard pitch to score runs on.
SA bat like snails on even the very best pitch, they take little or no stock of the ICC's desire for teams to play attractive test cricket!
Cummins will come in next.
The pitch is slow, no question. Rabada - who had had big wraps on him almost since debut - was only barely, sometimes cracking 140kmhr.
Warner reckons the spinners will come into play. The pitch is already variable with not a great deal of bounce....i think Starc's yorker will be a real threat. our lads seemed to have trouble picking up the line - whether that was the light or movement (defintely a bit there but variable), the SAffers won't like it when it's their turn.
Need Marsh to make a big half century or more.
Without Steyn, I think our pace attack is vastly better than theirs and their batting line up is not what it was....
If we can get 300+ *(ideally 350+) they'll be thinking twice!
SA bat like snails on even the very best pitch, they take little or no stock of the ICC's desire for teams to play attractive test cricket!
Strange they bat slow as DeVilliers and DeKock are two of the best slayers of bowling going around....Elgar is a very slow batsman.
I remember when they came back into test cricket and they had such a strong lineup with players like S.Pollock at eight , Kluesner batting at nine who were real goers.....think they started this go slow stuff when Kallis was at his prime and while his figures in the game were great he was accused of being a very selfish player who looked after No 1 first and didnt worry about results.
Cummins will come in next.
The pitch is slow, no question. Rabada - who had had big wraps on him almost since debut - was only barely, sometimes cracking 140kmhr.
Warner reckons the spinners will come into play. The pitch is already variable with not a great deal of bounce....i think Starc's yorker will be a real threat. our lads seemed to have trouble picking up the line - whether that was the light or movement (defintely a bit there but variable), the SAffers won't like it when it's their turn.
Need Marsh to make a big half century or more.
Without Steyn, I think our pace attack is vastly better than theirs and their batting line up is not what it was....
If we can get 300+ *(ideally 350+) they'll be thinking twice!
Surprised they didnt play Hendricks the left arm quick who swings the ball who played in the A game.....Morkel is on his last legs IMO.
A few more to retire in the SA team, politics and quota's have reared their ugly heads again and there is unrest off the field
which has also led Morkel to retire.
Our batting has more depth, they rely on their big 4 to make the runs.......ie Amla, Faf, DeVilliers and DeKock.....dont think that will be enough...
Strange they bat slow as DeVilliers and DeKock are two of the best slayers of bowling going around....Elgar is a very slow batsman.
Not saying they aren't good batsmen EB1, plenty of big scores, just happens at relatively low Strike Rates. Both of the two you list go at well below 50 runs per hundred balls. That is Boycott territory, in recorded averaged about 40 runs per hundred!
If I recall correctly there are a few innings played on postage stamps that biased some of the results, in the SA batsmen favour! :o
Smith is one of our slowest, but still goes at 55 runs per hundred balls, Shaun Marsh is our worst current batsmen at 44. Warner goes at 74!
I know it doesn't sound like much, but with that 20% difference SA can bat for a day without losing too many wickets and fail to get 250 runs regularly, Australia would make about 320. If you are watching that comes across as a world of difference. They've been lambasted in the media about it but they tell the world to get stuffed and keep crawling along, while countries trying to play attractive test cricket get knocked over by them!
Some of those SA pitches mean that the batsmen are genuinely just trying to survive rather than score.
But I do think our bowlers are going to put the wind up them - Amla & ABDV are getting old.
Morkel announced his retirement also, Stein also old - they are a team in transition.
SA wasting more time today after bowling 10 overs short yesterday.
Starc has taken offence at batting below Cummins, and is making the SA attack look toothless!
Some of those SA pitches mean that the batsmen are genuinely just trying to survive rather than score.
But I do think our bowlers are going to put the wind up them - Amla & ABDV are getting old.
Morkel announced his retirement also, Stein also old - they are a team in transition.
They are a team struggling with quota's and politics too......Morkel is retiring from playing for the Protea's but will play other forms of the game, he has
been pushed to retire from International cricket for reasons other than form or fitness.
351 is a very good effort, well done Starc and Marsh.
Wickets lost on last/first ball of sessions is bad cricket. Happy with 350 but could have been so much more.
Nathan " Garry" Lyon into the attack early and already taken 2 wickets......including prized scalp of Amla.........
Yep, it's a nation with a history of internal division, nothing has changed.
Yep, it's a nation with a history of internal division, nothing has changed.
Internal division is a a bit of an understatement Prof; it was a full blown rebellion against the colonial government.
Wickets lost on last/first ball of sessions is bad cricket. Happy with 350 but could have been so much more.
The laat ball is usually because the wicket has fallen not because it was meant to be the last ball.
aussies will be stoked with 350 on the dog of a pitch, SAFFERS UNLIKELY TO GET 200.
5 for 34 from Starc.
Great stuff. :D
5 for 34 from Starc.
Great stuff. :D
When he started his second spell he had bowled 4 overs for 0-19.
When he started his second spell he had bowled 4 overs for 0-19.
That happens. Final result that matters.
Will Warner have a chat with Khawaja!
That happens. Final result that matters.
of course, just makes that second spell, with the reverse swing, even more compelling!
of course, just makes that second spell, with the reverse swing, even more compelling!
Yes! Definitely!
Saffers 4-51 chasing 417.
ABV run out for a duck!
Saffers 4-51 chasing 417.
ABV run out for a duck!
Fat lady is gargling her throat.... ;)
Game over nearly but marred by some real poor sportsmanship from Nathan Lyon IMO......dropping the ball on or near AB DEVilliers after he was sprawled on the ground after being run out was disgraceful IMO. I would have paid Lyon a visit at the ends of days play and given him the ball back...in his gob...he should be suspended for a game IMO..
Didn't see it but don't like it either.
Saffies are in selection disarray akin to how we were before their last Aust tour. Too many blokes not in the right mindset.
20/20 pfft what rubbish compared to the real deal.
Game over nearly but marred by some real poor sportsmanship from Nathan Lyon IMO......dropping the ball on or near AB DEVilliers after he was sprawled on the ground after being run out was disgraceful IMO. I would have paid Lyon a visit at the ends of days play and given him the ball back...in his gob...he should be suspended for a game IMO..
Couldn't agree more.
Gives all Australians a bad name and isn't even close to playing in the spirit of cricket.
A bit of Lip is one thing but that ball drop was beyond ordinary.
Warner will get himself in trouble if he can't control his emotions, SA have got under his skin and he'll end up coping a match ban to the delight of everyone except Australia. Once he's exposed himself as irrational, every opposition on the face of the planet will be in his ear!
I realise this is happening in retaliation, and that SA are now pointing the finger at those who are really only pushing back against previous sins. But, there are smarter ways for the Aussies to do this stuff and Warner and Lyon have exposed themselves as dumb!
Revenge is a dish best served cold. Someone should be telling Lyon and Warner that a lack of emotion and an air of indifference to those SA jibes will hurt the SA players far more. SA will stew on the silence, and that will only help Australia.
You can tell when we are doing well, the media try to find everything to bring the side down. All I care about is Australia won and all i wish to focus on. 1-0!!!! International cricket is a hard game, crap will happen. Say crap about someone's wife and it's a good way to get yourself a good smack in the head. Don't blame Warner at all. Never seen a cricket blue, would've been interesting...lol.
Warner's been behaving himself for a while, not drinking etc... and hasn't batted as well. I like him when he's pugnacious, aggressive and sticking it up the opposition. He batted better then. Captaincy was good too. 8 wins from 8 games as captain and really looked the part.
You can tell when we are doing well, the media try to find everything to bring the side down. All I care about is Australia won and all i wish to focus on. 1-0!!!! International cricket is a hard game, crap will happen. Say crap about someone's wife and it's a good way to get yourself a good smack in the head. Don't blame Warner at all. Never seen a cricket blue, would've been interesting...lol.
Warner's been behaving himself for a while, not drinking etc... and hasn't batted as well. I like him when he's pugnacious, aggressive and sticking it up the opposition. He batted better then. Captaincy was good too. 8 wins from 8 games as captain and really looked the part.
Agree on the aggressive Warner being the better Warner but he has come across as a sook who can dish it out but cant take it...Markram sucked up the flak after he ran out DeVilliers and said the sledging was part of the game and AB said nothing about Lyon's ball dropping stuff but as soon as DeKock has a go then Warner throws the toys out of the cot...cant have it both ways. Smith saying there has to be boundaries just endorsed the its ok if we sledge you but if you come back harder then its not ok theory...DuPlessis has the right response when he said it should just stay on the field......Warner should have clapped DeKock off the field and pointed out who won the game and said see you next test.
Saying all that DeKock comes across as a cocky SOB and needs to be put in his place but I think a run of low scores out on the field is my preferred option for him rather than taking the bait like Warner did...
Saying all that DeKock comes across as a cocky SOB and needs to be put in his place but I think a run of low scores out on the field is my preferred option for him rather than taking the bait like Warner did...
Exactamundo!
(https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/rexfeatures_1594752a.jpg?w=1000&h=563&crop=1)
Exactamundo!
(https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/rexfeatures_1594752a.jpg?w=1000&h=563&crop=1)
There is a bit of a rumour floating that Warner called DeKock a " bush pig" with a racial reference also attached and made some similar comments about his mother and sister..I think Warner may be a fool but he isnt stupid enough to say that sort of stuff IMo and its more a Saffie media beat up....
There is a bit of a rumour floating that Warner called DeKock a " bush pig" with a racial reference also attached and made some similar comments about his mother and sister..I think Warner may be a fool but he isnt stupid enough to say that sort of stuff IMo and its more a Saffie media beat up....
Warner is an utter knucklehead and who would absolutely say something that stupid. Then he sooks it up when he gets it back, what a DH. Man up and come up with a better retort or STFU in the first place. As Warnie said, go and have a beer together and shake hands. Throwing punches is just stupid and unacceptable. I for one know exactly who the bushpig in the contest btw Warner and DeKock. He may have money, a Lambo and hot wife but he has zero class.
Warner is an utter knucklehead and who would absolutely say something that stupid. Then he sooks it up when he gets it back, what a DH. Man up and come up with a better retort or STFU in the first place. As Warnie said, go and have a beer together and shake hands. Throwing punches is just stupid and unacceptable. I for one know exactly who the bushpig in the contest btw Warner and DeKock. He may have money, a Lambo and hot wife but he has zero class.
Family is off limits. Warner had every right to defend his missus as you or anyone else would in the same circumstances. Race, sexuality and family to me are no-go zones. Anything else you give and take. They can go punch it out for all I care. Warner is an easy target for keyboard warriors. All I care about is we won away from home by 118 runs. That is by far the most important part and what should be the discussion. Not only that, as captain of Australia Warner's 8 wins from 8.
Family is off limits. Warner had every right to defend his missus as you or anyone else would in the same circumstances. Race, sexuality and family to me are no-go zones. Anything else you give and take. They can go punch it out for all I care. Warner is an easy target for keyboard warriors. All I care about is we won away from home by 118 runs. That is by far the most important part and what should be the discussion. Not only that, as captain of Australia Warner's 8 wins from 8.
So Warner attacking DeKok's family is ok coz the Aussies won? Seems to me the Sledging Kings got out Sledged and now the master sledger couldn't take his medicine. He is an easy target because he is a flog of a bloke. Has form, wont be the last time this happens.
There is a bit of a rumour floating that Warner called DeKock a " bush pig" with a racial reference also attached and made some similar comments about his mother and sister..I think Warner may be a fool but he isnt stupid enough to say that sort of stuff IMo and its more a Saffie media beat up....
He is very easily stupid enough, sadly...
He is very easily stupid enough, sadly...
Sadly, I think you’re right FB.
Warner likes to dish it out but isn’t terribly good at taking it.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/david-warner-and-quinton-de-kock-charged-over-stairwell-standoff-20180307-p4z354.html (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/david-warner-and-quinton-de-kock-charged-over-stairwell-standoff-20180307-p4z354.html)
Maybe the Saffers have told a few porkies in an endeavour to save their skin....if that is proven - that De Kock was out of line - and Warner had not inappropriately insulted on onfield, not sure how Warner gets a higher penalty?
But again, Warner should not have reacted the way he did - in any circumstance imo.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/david-warner-and-quinton-de-kock-charged-over-stairwell-standoff-20180307-p4z354.html (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/david-warner-and-quinton-de-kock-charged-over-stairwell-standoff-20180307-p4z354.html)
Maybe the Saffers have told a few porkies in an endeavour to save their skin....if that is proven - that De Kock was out of line - and Warner had not inappropriately insulted on onfield, not sure how Warner gets a higher penalty?
But again, Warner should not have reacted the way he did - in any circumstance imo.
There is always a home town bias, the match referee will be heavily lobbied and pressured by many more locals than Aussie visitors.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/david-warner-and-quinton-de-kock-charged-over-stairwell-standoff-20180307-p4z354.html (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/david-warner-and-quinton-de-kock-charged-over-stairwell-standoff-20180307-p4z354.html)
Maybe the Saffers have told a few porkies in an endeavour to save their skin....if that is proven - that De Kock was out of line - and Warner had not inappropriately insulted on onfield, not sure how Warner gets a higher penalty?
But again, Warner should not have reacted the way he did - in any circumstance imo.
Warner has form which wont help him, DeKock is meant to be more mild mannered but I reckon both parties are to blame and if penalties are handed out it should be a even handed approach....fine both players or suspend both players from playing next match...ok if Warner has more form he gets a bigger fine but I dont want to see him suspended and the other bloke with a paltry fine....
And can we do something about teams having to separate the dressing rooms a bit better?....or have a orderly departure from the ground where the batsman leave first so there is no interaction between players in astairwell...
I think Quinten de Kock may well be one of those quiet loud mouth snipers, the type who go about sucking people in without doing it in a obtrusive manner. A sneaky bastard, in other circles maybe even a bit of a psychopath!
Warner, he reminds me of the bad old days of NSW cricket, when they were a real bunch of loud mouth mindless smart-arses who's ability wasn't nearly as deep as their narcissism and nepotism.
Sadly, I think you’re right FB.
Warner likes to dish it out but isn’t terribly good at taking it.
Don't think he has an issue taking it jut that it becoming personal when his wife became involved. De Kock must've said something bad about her for Warner to go off like that. Can't blame a man for defending attacks against his missus.
Don't think he has an issue taking it jut that it becoming personal when his wife became involved. De Kock must've said something bad about her for Warner to go off like that. Can't blame a man for defending attacks against his missus.
When you're the VC of a national team, very much under scrutiny, you can't afford to "go off like that".
What planet you living on Jim?
Don't think he has an issue taking it jut that it becoming personal when his wife became involved. De Kock must've said something bad about her for Warner to go off like that. Can't blame a man for defending attacks against his missus.
So it’s OK for Warner to say whatever he likes but not OK for our opponents? I’m reminded of when McGrath went troppo after his sledge backfired.
I don’t mind sledging, as long as it relates to the game and is not abusive. The cricket ground is a workplace and cricketers should be able to pursue their craft without having to put up with offensive and abusive comments.
Don't think he has an issue taking it jut that it becoming personal when his wife became involved. De Kock must've said something bad about her for Warner to go off like that. Can't blame a man for defending attacks against his missus.
The Saffies have said Warner commented on DeKocks mother and sister during the course of play?.....its all he said , she said stuff...only the umpires can adjudicate IMO, the players will all stick up for their teammates anyway. I'd like to see Jeff Crowe set some boundaries and get the umpires to restrict what is said so it becomes more obvious when players step over the line, then issue them a warning....
The Saffies have said Warner commented on DeKocks mother and sister during the course of play?.....its all he said , she said stuff...only the umpires can adjudicate IMO, the players will all stick up for their teammates anyway. I'd like to see Jeff Crowe set some boundaries and get the umpires to restrict what is said so it becomes more obvious when players step over the line, then issue them a warning....
Either ban sledging or mike up all the players.
If Warner was sledging De Kock's mum and sister staggered that the umpires wouldn't or couldn't have heard it - it's a pretty small place/area out there and both umpires are never far from the batsmen.
So, if Paine and the umpires heard nothing, well i'll take that over whatever the Saffers are concocting....
So it’s OK for Warner to say whatever he likes but not OK for our opponents? I’m reminded of when McGrath went troppo after his sledge backfired.
I don’t mind sledging, as long as it relates to the game and is not abusive. The cricket ground is a workplace and cricketers should be able to pursue their craft without having to put up with offensive and abusive comments.
Not when it's family. Warner didn't go down the family route. De Kock did though. Maybe Warner rubbed De Kock the wrong way....lol!
Not when it's family. Warner didn't go down the family route. De Kock did though. Maybe Warner rubbed De Kock the wrong way....lol!
Ah Jimbo. That is clever. Have to pay that.
Warner/Bancroft started well but Rabada has ripped the middle order out and we are 7 for 176 and in real trouble.....
Not when it's family. Warner didn't go down the family route. De Kock did though. Maybe Warner rubbed De Kock the wrong way....lol!
Yes, have to pay that ;D
However, how do you know what Warner said or didn’t say?
Malcolm Knox nailed it in today’s Age. Apart from asserting that he has no idea of what Warner said - and, by implication, very few people know and they aren’t saying - Knox squashes the provocation defence:
Warner’s excuse, whatever de Kock said about his wife, holds as much merit as Ben Stokes’s excuse, coming soon to a courtroom near you, for belting the bejesus out of some bloke. Short version: every hothead since Cain has thought he was provoked. It’s part of being a hothead. You suffer from provocation-sensitivity syndrome.
It seems that the Saffie fans are wearing Sonny Bill masks to get up Warner’s goat. That’s not a good look for cricket but it wouldn’t be happening if Warner wasn’t a hothead.
When was the last time Khwaja made runs when it counted? Also seems to be low contributor in team collapses, either duration or runs.
Yes, have to pay that ;D
However, how do you know what Warner said or didn’t say?
Malcolm Knox nailed it in today’s Age. Apart from asserting that he has no idea of what Warner said - and, by implication, very few people know and they aren’t saying - Knox squashes the provocation defence:
It seems that the Saffie fans are wearing Sonny Bill masks to get up Warner’s goat. That’s not a good look for cricket but it wouldn’t be happening if Warner wasn’t a hothead.
Not just the fans, couple of officials decided to join them, very ordinary look IMO...Rabada should get fined and points for giving Smith some contact and after sending him on his way.
Appears Jeff Crowe's warnings have done nothing to temper the bad blood....
When was the last time Khwaja made runs when it counted? Also seems to be low contributor in team collapses, either duration or runs.
Likes a flat track, the SA quicks were moving it off the seam and his footwork is minimal at the best of times...the Rabada clone in Ngidi seems
a decent bowler and we looked a bit intimidated...think we may have seen the last of Morkel.
When was the last time Khwaja made runs when it counted? Also seems to be low contributor in team collapses, either duration or runs.
He is certainly looking like the weakest link at the moment. We really need a little more solidity at #3.
Yes, have to pay that ;D
However, how do you know what Warner said or didn’t say?
Malcolm Knox nailed it in today’s Age. Apart from asserting that he has no idea of what Warner said - and, by implication, very few people know and they aren’t saying - Knox squashes the provocation defence:
It seems that the Saffie fans are wearing Sonny Bill masks to get up Warner’s goat. That’s not a good look for cricket but it wouldn’t be happening if Warner wasn’t a hothead.
You think he went off his head for nothing. Think it is very clear what has happened. Players on the field were adamant he did nothing more than sledge. Obviously got under De Kock's skin and he went personal. If he Warner said something he shouldn't have we'd know by now. Let's not take a set against him for the sake of it.
Saffer's lose more respect by the day. They'll be other media that say otherwise. Let's not pick and choose.
wARner is a dumbo, nothing to do with the Saffers.
He should have been suspended.
Then it all stops.
wARner is a dumbo, nothing to do with the Saffers.
He should have been suspended.
Then it all stops.
x2. I cant believe the support this flog is getting. Having said that, the Aussie cricketers in general seem to be immune to criticism.
it sends such a terrible message to every junior cricketer in the world.
it sends such a terrible message to every junior cricketer in the world.
Agreed, but by the same token the SA behaviour is deplorable, not that it's an excuse for Warner!
Agreed, but by the same token the SA behaviour is deplorable, not that is an excuse for Warner!
Officials wearing those Sonny Bill masks is deplorable IMO...the ICC should step in and read the riot act to both teams on this childish stuff.
Warner brings it on himself for sure but Saffies have continued it on and I wasnt impressed with Rabada's physical approach with Smith and he should be fined and spoken to.
Officials wearing those Sonny Bill masks is deplorable IMO...the ICC should step in and read the riot act to both teams on this childish stuff.
Warner brings it on himself for sure but Saffies have continued it on and I wasnt impressed with Rabada's physical approach with Smith and he should be fined and spoken to.
SA is a funny country, you go there on business and they think strip clubs are a great night out, it's like winding the clock back 3 or 4 decades!
EB1, do you see what I mean about the SA run rates? 74 overs, at 2.3, that is as bad as Boycott at his worst!
x2. I cant believe the support this flog is getting. Having said that, the Aussie cricketers in general seem to be immune to criticism.
I was listening to SEN a day or two ago and the presenter was shocked that around 90% of callers/texters were critical of Warner’s behaviour.
...but Kane Cornes is an opinionated flog with a hyperinflated idea about the value of his opinion to the rest of the human race.
SA is a funny country, you go there on business and they think strip clubs are a great night out, it's like winding the clock back 3 or 4 decades!
EB1, do you see what I mean about the SA run rates? 74 overs, at 2.3, that is as bad as Boycott at his worst!
Fair call LP...the Saffies were very slow in making their runs and confirmed your opinions, most of the action in SA seems to be off the field in the stairwells ;)
...but Kane Cornes is an opinionated flog with a hyperinflated idea about the value of his opinion to the rest of the human race.
Agree...listening to him on trade radio was enough for me....Matthew Lloyd actually looked and sounded like a rational balanced individual in
comparison to KC...his brother was another clown..
I was listening to SEN a day or two ago and the presenter was shocked that around 90% of callers/texters were critical of Warner’s behaviour.
Wow!
Back to the cricket...ABDevilliers has taken the Saffies to a decent lead , scored a very nice century( 100 of 118 balls) and we are struggling at 3 for 86.....Rabada bowled Warner with a peach and Smith cant seem to play left arm spin anymore and has fallen to Maharaj again.
Still about 50 behind so it aint looking flash....the whole Warner/DeKock saga seems to have fired the Saffies up and Rababa should be fined again after sending Warner off in a unpleasant manner...
I was listening to SEN a day or two ago and the presenter was shocked that around 90% of callers/texters were critical of Warner’s behaviour.
Gee, really.
Think we know our cricketers are fair game and get knocked for the sake of it. You don't even bother asking callers opinions on a player as you know.the results beforehand. Called tall poppy syndrome where envious callers who'll never be any good try to bring a tall poppy down. Going bad taking callers seriously.
If people are having a go at Warner for defending his family then there's something seriously wrong. Naturally no-one has a go at De Kock, the person in the wrong, because he's not Australian. Can only knock our own as That's our mentality..
Warner is a DH, fullstop.
Always has been, always will be....
The whole circus created by his inability to act like an adult has lead to our disastrous performance in Test 2.
He needs a holiday. >:( >:(
Gee, really.
Think we know our cricketers are fair game and get knocked for the sake of it. You don't even bother asking callers opinions on a player as you know.the results beforehand. Called tall poppy syndrome where envious callers who'll never be any good try to bring a tall poppy down. Going bad taking callers seriously.
If people are having a go at Warner for defending his family then there's something seriously wrong. Naturally no-one has a go at De Kock, the person in the wrong, because he's not Australian. Can only knock our own as That's our mentality..
Sounds like you need a holiday too!
Yep, ABdeV showing what true class looks like, I've always thought he was never out of the argument as to no. 1. Smith's odd technique showing a chunk against LA orthodox spin.
I was pooh poohed pre series for suggesting Rabada to be a gun, should miss at least the next test which will give our blokes a chance to regroup. The mop showed himself to be yet another left arm Mitch, bowling the odd jaffa amongst a sea of four balls. Can't expect to win tests with a strike bowler going at four and not taking wickets.
if i had been picking our team for the PE test, neither Bancroft, Waner nor Khawaja would have played.
Bancroft and Khawaja because they're both not up to it presently and enough is enough.
Warner because he is a right royal DH who behaviour disrupts the entire team....Smith should have given him a massive spray andstood him down not a pat on the back.
Again, bad bad captaincy from Smith (and no doubt the whole saga is affecting his form) let alone the fact that our top order is a joke.....
So many of our blokes are making starts and getting out, particularly either side of breaks in play. Failure to turn those 20's into 50's or better is killing us. It's almost as if they freeze up with the perceived pressure of the time in the game.
All over, was the Rabada show this test so hopefully he is missing the next one thanks to his send offs and we can perform a bit better.....dont see any team changes for us and reckon we will stick with the same lineup.
Bit of a rumour that Dale Steyn wants to play in the 3rd test...as great as he is or was I doubt they would bring him in cold even with Rabada out and would play safe with Morkel....If its one all going into the 4th test I would back Steyn to play....
Rabada out for the rest of the series.
Good decision by the IOC. A damn good cricketer, but
a hot-headed goose.
David Warner gets sledged over his wife's nocturnal activities whilst she was single and poor little Davey loses the plot.
Its amazing how he has been the prime driver of all things nasty onfield yet the moment it gets turned on him he sooks up.
He is everything that is wrong with Australian cricket right now (and has been for a few years now) and the sooner he gets relegated back to the 20/20 hits & giggles forever the better our game will be.
David Warner gets sledged over his wife's nocturnal activities whilst she was single and poor little Davey loses the plot.
Its amazing how he has been the prime driver of all things nasty onfield yet the moment it gets turned on him he sooks up.
He is everything that is wrong with Australian cricket right now (and has been for a few years now) and the sooner he gets relegated back to the 20/20 hits & giggles forever the better our game will be.
here here.
I'd have flown Renshaw out as cover last week.
All over, was the Rabada show this test so hopefully he is missing the next one thanks to his send offs and we can perform a bit better.....dont see any team changes for us and reckon we will stick with the same lineup.
Bit of a rumour that Dale Steyn wants to play in the 3rd test...as great as he is or was I doubt they would bring him in cold even with Rabada out and would play safe with Morkel....If its one all going into the 4th test I would back Steyn to play....
Very little mention that Starc was totally MIA in Test 2....
David Warner gets sledged over his wife's nocturnal activities whilst she was single and poor little Davey loses the plot.
Its amazing how he has been the prime driver of all things nasty onfield yet the moment it gets turned on him he sooks up.
He is everything that is wrong with Australian cricket right now (and has been for a few years now) and the sooner he gets relegated back to the 20/20 hits & giggles forever the better our game will be.
You reckon that sort of sledging is Ok do you ?........we were completely scathing of the Saints (carlisle) targeting Murph's wife with similar on-field sledging & backed Murphs reaction to that to the hilt.....hypocrisy.
It is not OK in any situation in any sport, no matter who it involves......and I can tell you if me or anyone else copped anything like that playing cricket in my day, the sledger would have been taken out the back of the sheds & layed out......
Players from different sports have shown they are either unwilling or unable to stick to rules or gentlemen's agreements in these matters. They simply can't be trusted to do the right thing.
Let your skills do the talking and just ban sledging. Otherwise these incidents will continue to occur and continue to be a blight on sports the world over.
You reckon that sort of sledging is Ok do you ?........we were completely scathing of the Saints (carlisle) targeting Murph's wife with similar on-field sledging & backed Murphs reaction to that to the hilt.....hypocrisy.
It is not OK in any situation in any sport, no matter who it involves......and I can tell you if me or anyone else copped anything like that playing cricket in my day, the sledger would have been taken out the back of the sheds & layed out......
Agree...thats not ok what he said but the boundaries on different issues would be different for individual players, what we might define as nothing too offensive might be taken the wrong way by someone else leading them to reply with stuff that is over the top.
Do you create a seperate rule book for sledging with banned subject matters ie race, religion, family or do you just say only cricket related sledges are allowed.....and have umpires adjudicate and report players?
Problem Warner has is that he is often the player initiating proceedings, when he called DeKock a f...ing sook twice as he came off the ground if that had been me on the receiving end of that I would have wanted a piece of him off the field but I have noticed he only gets chirpy with little blokes like himself ie DeKock, Kohli, Sharma, Root etc.....someone bigger and he seems silent.
When you initiate verbal attacks on other players he is going to have to get used to a bit coming back his way plus interest attached......
You reckon that sort of sledging is Ok do you ?........we were completely scathing of the Saints (carlisle) targeting Murph's wife with similar on-field sledging & backed Murphs reaction to that to the hilt.....hypocrisy.
It is not OK in any situation in any sport, no matter who it involves......and I can tell you if me or anyone else copped anything like that playing cricket in my day, the sledger would have been taken out the back of the sheds & layed out......
I think you missed that last sentence of mine Malo, I don't agree with that sort of behaviour at all. I've been an administrator at local suburban level for some time and we now have players thinking it is okay to savagely sledge because they see the Test players doing it and I am totally oiver the whole thing.
My point is that Warner has been very happy to lead the chorus in the past but this time around, he copped a little more back than he expected and he has sooked up tenfold.
I have never liked him as a Test player due to his sheer arrogance and aggressive onfield behaviour hence the reason why I suggested he be relegates to 20/20 only.
You reckon that sort of sledging is Ok do you ?........we were completely scathing of the Saints (carlisle) targeting Murph's wife with similar on-field sledging & backed Murphs reaction to that to the hilt.....hypocrisy.
It is not OK in any situation in any sport, no matter who it involves......and I can tell you if me or anyone else copped anything like that playing cricket in my day, the sledger would have been taken out the back of the sheds & layed out......
There is a huge difference between the two situations. Murphy did not sledge Carlisle and was subjected to a barrage of inappropriate comments from Carlisle and other players. In contrast, Warner is the acknowledged leader of the Australian cricketers' sledging and he is a known bully. In common with most bullies, Warner is quite happy to dish it out but doesn't like it coming back.
I have listened to several sportsmen talking about Warner's over the top reaction on the wireless and the most common responses to a sledge about one's partner are, "Whatever!" and "Is that the best you've got?"
Warner's behaviour in sledging the Saffies and his over the top reaction to being sledged in return could well cost us the series. Player temperament is just as important as run scoring or wicket taking ability.
I reckon sledging is a waste of time. Chatter is part of the game, but sledging opens you up to snappy come backs.
Some of the best comebacks to sledging were directed towards Glenn McGrath, who typically instigated it;
e.g. "hey Eddie, why are you so fat?" was responded to by "because everytime I ##### your wife she gives me a biscuit"
or my favourite "what does Brian Lara's $$$$ taste like?" was slapped down with "I dunno, ask your wife"
And MacGrath would go off his trolley and bowl like a busted crab. Morale of story... don't sledge and expect the receiver not to give it back with interest.
I think you missed that last sentence of mine Malo, I don't agree with that sort of behaviour at all. I've been an administrator at local suburban level for some time and we now have players thinking it is okay to savagely sledge because they see the Test players doing it and I am totally oiver the whole thing.
You're on the money there mate....I played the majority of my career from early 80s through to late 90s........there was sledging of course, but it was usually funny, usually left to the senior members of the sides & virtually never abusive personal attacks. Younger members of a side would never have dared open their mouths until they had at least established themselves as decent players in any grade side.
I had a few years off & then decided to play one more year in 2nd grade to assist the club with mentoring a few of the younger blokes in around 2003 (as a mid 30 year old !)..........the amount of sledging had increased 10 fold since I last played, it was mostly abusive, banal & unintelligent & it was mostly trotted out by snotty nosed little teenage brats, in their first season having done absolutely nothing, & senior players (ie me & a couple of others) were not immune in the slightest from this abuse. I walked away after one year, didn't need to put up with that cr@p. For someone who loves the game as I do....to me, that is extremely sad.
cheers
You're on the money there mate....I played the majority of my career from early 80s through to late 90s........there was sledging of course, but it was usually funny, usually left to the senior members of the sides & virtually never abusive personal attacks. Younger members of a side would never have dared open their mouths until they had at least established themselves as decent players in any grade side.
I had a few years off & then decided to play one more year in 2nd grade to assist the club with mentoring a few of the younger blokes in around 2003 (as a mid 30 year old !)..........the amount of sledging had increased 10 fold since I last played, it was mostly abusive, banal & unintelligent & it was mostly trotted out by snotty nosed little teenage brats, in their first season having done absolutely nothing, & senior players (ie me & a couple of others) were not immune in the slightest from this abuse. I walked away after one year, didn't need to put up with that cr@p. For someone who loves the game as I do....to me, that is extremely sad.
cheers
I had a similar experience coming back to play for much the same reasons as yourself when in my 40s. Invited to captain a team made up of "youthful potential" that seemed to be mostly misdirected talent.
But had the sledging increased or was it just because on return we were at the weekend warrior level? A level that is often proliferated with teams full of young footballers bridging the off-season with a bit of cricket?
I also found interfering parents an issue with young teenagers, a lot of why isn't my kid opening sort of discussions went on! Kids playing the sport a parent had chosen for them maybe?
I had a similar experience coming back to play for much the same reasons as yourself when in my 40s. Invited to captain a team made up of "youthful potential" that seemed to be mostly misdirected talent.
But had the sledging increased or was it just because on return we were at the weekend warrior level? A level that is often proliferated with teams full of young footballers bridging the off-season with a bit of cricket?
I also found interfering parents an issue with young teenagers, a lot of why isn't my kid opening sort of discussions went on! Kids playing the sport a parent had chosen for them maybe?
Many years ago I played some Sub District cricket in the Melbourne East and we had a game where we were short and I invited a workmate who had played a bit of District cricket for a team in the West, he was a bit of a gun batsman and carted the other mob everywhere and the opposition were not impressed. He got sledged really bad especially by two brothers one of whom was a TV personality at the time and had a big gob...when he was dismissed it continued and he told them they had better be prepared to back it up off the field. It ended up in a brawl in the carpark with the police in attendance....this is what sledging can lead to when it gets out of hand..the sledging wasnt so much personal but more along the lines of anyone from the Western Suburbs must be some low life with a crim background etc etc, whose car did you steal to get to the game etc, my mate was a good Braybrook boy from a hardworking family and didnt find it amusing.
did he win the punch on?
did he win the punch on?
Fly, Braybrook boys know how to look after themselves....ended up with several fights as others got involved and damage to a car or two and thats why the police got involved.
Funnily (?) enough, I have found the older (45+) more likely to sledge and carry on like idiots, not realising they are now playing the lowest 2 day grade in the comp.
The only fight I have ever seen at cricket was between the opposition team, where one player threw a stump at his team mate and then chased him around with another. There have been several that I have heard of (including one where the whole offending club was kicked out of the comp)
Funniest things that I have seen playing cricket include (excluding in-house stories)
- a group of medieval fighters all dressed up doing their thing. It stopped our game for about 15 minutes as we all watched
- a guy riding a trail bike, not realising it was on fire until we were all shouting at him. He got off pretty quick and proved he was a good sprinter - didn't come back for the bike.
- fire brigade coming to put out a fire about 10 metres from the fine leg boundary, and only way to access was across the oval. Fine leg fielder decided that they only needed to save the single rather than be on the boundary
Thanks Dodge, its recollections like yours that add so much to the rich tapestry of local sport.
Rabada and the Saffies won their appeal so he will play in the 3rd test... :o :o...looked simple enough to me, he initiated contact with Smith and abused a couple of batsman
on the way out..guilty IMO....
Rabada and the Saffies won their appeal so he will play in the 3rd test... :o :o...looked simple enough to me, he initiated contact with Smith and abused a couple of batsman
on the way out..guilty IMO....
I find it difficult to understand how Rabada could get off. he was clearly guilty and has a history that has nothing to do with playing Aussies.
There needs to be a real change in the process and penalties for this stuff. The present system is not working as it should. Rabada should have been suspended and he shouldn't be alone. Warner should have got a match. De Koch should have gone, and those 2 guys in Sri Lanka should have got multiple games.
Rabada and the Saffies won their appeal so he will play in the 3rd test... :o :o...looked simple enough to me, he initiated contact with Smith and abused a couple of batsman
on the way out..guilty IMO....
You can't say that he's...............part of the quota!
He's not a bad bowler, but he's meat-head, then again so are some others.
It was really minor, but player contact in cricket is an absolute no-no... plus he has a bad record... deserved to miss games. So did Warner and DeKock.
However, i’m pretty excited about the last two tests... Rabada’s opening spell to Warner in the 2nd innings was the sort of stuff that makes cricket a great sport.
Bring it on.
I'd hate to be umpiring a local cricket grand final this weekend, the ICC have declared open slather on batsmen after you get them out
Prof. It is a great thing about cricket - you spend so much time doing nothing that you have to sledge your teammates (so much more fun). Occasionally the stories are about someone's achievement, but moreso a failure of some kind.
One week we were playing on a ground next to our fifths and fielding. A club legend (for whom the duck club is named) came out to bat. We just stopped for a few minutes. The legend (career batting average <5) was 'going for' his third consecutive golden duck. We told the batsmen what was going on. They cheered as loudly as us as the golden was avoided.
It is the richness of club, as you suggest that makes it the sport it is.
What a disgrace....
might fire the Aussie lads up though. Theyve been pretty lethargic in their output imo...
Funnily (?) enough, I have found the older (45+) more likely to sledge and carry on like idiots, not realising they are now playing the lowest 2 day grade in the comp.
The only fight I have ever seen at cricket was between the opposition team, where one player threw a stump at his team mate and then chased him around with another. There have been several that I have heard of (including one where the whole offending club was kicked out of the comp)
Funniest things that I have seen playing cricket include (excluding in-house stories)
- a group of medieval fighters all dressed up doing their thing. It stopped our game for about 15 minutes as we all watched
- a guy riding a trail bike, not realising it was on fire until we were all shouting at him. He got off pretty quick and proved he was a good sprinter - didn't come back for the bike.
- fire brigade coming to put out a fire about 10 metres from the fine leg boundary, and only way to access was across the oval. Fine leg fielder decided that they only needed to save the single rather than be on the boundary
I never played cricket but reading your post makes me wish I had.
My Dad was a pretty good cricketer and one of my favourite mementos of him is a bat signed by his teammates and with a little plaque commemorating his 100th catch in a season for Coburg RSL. He was on Carlton's list for a while but never managed to crack it for a game in the District team and went back to his mates at the RSL. I wish I had recorded his cricket stories.
Marc Murphy was a decent cricketer too - I think he played for the University firsts. Played a bit against his brother who was also at University, who was playing way below his level.
DJC - 100 catches in a season is phenomenal - I reckon I would be about that mark having played seniors for about 30 years!
It's fun, keeps me sane and relieves stress of the week.
Marc Murphy was a decent cricketer too - I think he played for the University firsts. Played a bit against his brother who was also at University, who was playing way below his level.
DJC - 100 catches in a season is phenomenal - I reckon I would be about that mark having played seniors for about 30 years!
It's fun, keeps me sane and relieves stress of the week.
Dad was a wicketkeeper - or "wicky" as my grandsons say (They love their cricket - and running, footy, basketball and tennis!) - but 100 catches is a fair effort. He paid for it with a nose that was squashed across his face and hands that looked like they had been pounded with a mallet.
The ICC is a morally corrupt entity.... Rabada is a serial offender and for the good of the game needed to be suspended. Maybe for 1 match. But to get off ??? FMD, does he have to kill somebody on field to get sanctioned? What message is being delivered here?
No wonder Andrew Symonds left the game in disgust. Seems to be different rules depending upon where players come from.
I find it difficult to understand how Rabada could get off. he was clearly guilty and has a history that has nothing to do with playing Aussies.
There needs to be a real change in the process and penalties for this stuff. The present system is not working as it should. Rabada should have been suspended and he shouldn't be alone. Warner should have got a match. De Koch should have gone, and those 2 guys in Sri Lanka should have got multiple games.
This is what happens when you get lawyers involved in an area that is of no concern to them. The ex-cricketer (Crowe) understands the game & the implications for this type of behaviour. Lawyers have no place in making overriding decisions on sport related judgements.
And that includes Football.
David Warner gets sledged over his wife's nocturnal activities whilst she was single and poor little Davey loses the plot.
Its amazing how he has been the prime driver of all things nasty onfield yet the moment it gets turned on him he sooks up.
He is everything that is wrong with Australian cricket right now (and has been for a few years now) and the sooner he gets relegated back to the 20/20 hits & giggles forever the better our game will be.
Agreed!
Aussie crowds adored Warne and McGrath "sending off" players for years and now we're sooking about it.
As as I dislike McGrath and the NSW cricket mafia and their arrogance, they never resorted to physical contact of this nature....
Rabada should have gone - and he has serious history too!
The ICC is a morally corrupt entity.... Rabada is a serial offender and for the good of the game needed to be suspended. Maybe for 1 match. But to get off ??? FMD, does he have to kill somebody on field to get sanctioned? What message is being delivered here?
No wonder Andrew Symonds left the game in disgust. Seems to be different rules depending upon where players come from.
I agree. There is no moral authority because the ICC are just an amoral mob looking out for their own interests.
Yes, the ICC is a joke and this adds to a huge (in my mind) list of pandering to the self interest of countries that aren't Australia, England or New Zealand.
Yes, the ICC is a joke and this adds to a huge (in my mind) list of pandering to the self interest of countries that aren't Australia, England or New Zealand.
Need to get some aboriginals in our team quick smart!
Need to get some aboriginals in our team quick smart!
You can't say that..........!
You can't say that..........!
ha, yeah on first glance that remark would seem inappropriate, even if it is close to the mark !
But, lets look into that one statement a little more. In terms of participation & an untapped resource for Australian cricket, it is a statement that stacks up. Indigenous kids are, almost without exception, heading to the 2 main football codes (AFL, Rugby League) & those two codes have benefited enormously from the pool of talent & skills that they bring to both of those games. Cricket is well & truly missing out.......as was the case for many years in South Africa. The local black population was always a huge un-tapped talent for cricket & I always thought that the Saffers had the potential to be the next fast bowling megapower (similar to the Windies) if even a little of that talent could be siphoned off from Soccer to Cricket in that Country. We are are starting to see the results of that now ......even if their method (the quota system) is flawed & goes entirely against my grain.
It's probably even harder for cricket to capture the imagination of indigenous kids in this country, but its something they have to try to do if the game is to grow. There have been & continue to be blokes with aboriginal heritage involved in cricket at the highest level (Gillespie, Darcy Short for starters), but no-where near enough.
Just my thoughts
cheers
Mal.
Moving away from South Africa for a moment, England are 8/23 in the First Test in New Zealand.....lol!!!!!!
Moving away from South Africa for a moment, England are 8/23 in the First Test in New Zealand.....lol!!!!!!
aLL OUT 58.
NZ 1/8.
I agree. There is no moral authority because the ICC are just an amoral mob looking out for their own interests.
Unlike the AFL
ha, yeah on first glance that remark would seem inappropriate, even if it is close to the mark !
But, lets look into that one statement a little more. In terms of participation & an untapped resource for Australian cricket, it is a statement that stacks up. Indigenous kids are, almost without exception, heading to the 2 main football codes (AFL, Rugby League) & those two codes have benefited enormously from the pool of talent & skills that they bring to both of those games. Cricket is well & truly missing out.......as was the case for many years in South Africa. The local black population was always a huge un-tapped talent for cricket & I always thought that the Saffers had the potential to be the next fast bowling megapower (similar to the Windies) if even a little of that talent could be siphoned off from Soccer to Cricket in that Country. We are are starting to see the results of that now ......even if their method (the quota system) is flawed & goes entirely against my grain.
It's probably even harder for cricket to capture the imagination of indigenous kids in this country, but its something they have to try to do if the game is to grow. There have been & continue to be blokes with aboriginal heritage involved in cricket at the highest level (Gillespie, Darcy Short for starters), but no-where near enough.
Just my thoughts
cheers
Mal.
Many of the Aboriginal blokes I worked with were very keen cricketers but weren’t interested in anything above local club cricket. I guess family and cultural issues may have played a part in that, as well as wanting to be ready for footy season.
It would be interesting to see how a Clontarf style cricket academy would go. :-\
You can't say that..........!
I know, I was only half serious and the other half frustrated. We saw how contrived the ICC was when Symons was hung out to dry with the 'Monkey gate' saga, all we want is consistency. Aussies aren't angels and transgressed just as much as the Saffies in the 2nd test, Lyon dropping the ball near AB De Villiers was disgusting, should have been rubbed out for bringing the Australian sporting reputation into disrepute. Anyway should be interesting to watch the side show in the next test!
Bancroft it appears will have something to answer for - ball tampering for one. I think they have him on video, the replay I saw seems to suggest he had some type of plastic guitar pick to rough up the ball.
Bancroft it appears will have something to answer for - ball tampering for one. I think they have him on video, the replay I saw seems to suggest he had some type of plastic guitar pick to rough up the ball.
let's see the video...
Bancroft it appears will have something to answer for - ball tampering for one. I think they have him on video, the replay I saw seems to suggest he had some type of plastic guitar pick to rough up the ball.
bloody Hell.
Smith has admitted we tried to cheat by tampering with the ball. :o
What a f*** up.
And that the cheating was a plan thought up by the leadership group. Everyone who knew about this should be removed from the team ASAP forever. They all had an opportunity to say this is wrong and didn't until they were caught.
ACB, time to show what you're made of.
And that the cheating was a plan thought up by the leadership group. Everyone who knew about this should be removed from the team ASAP forever. They all had an opportunity to say this is wrong and didn't until they were caught.
ACB, time to show what you're made of.
Blackest day in Australian cricket, making the under arm incident pale into insignficance. We will be forever known as cheats and deservedly so, time for all those involved to be stood down and sent home and should be the end of Smiths reign as captain. How can these guys possibly play out this test let alone the rest of the series?
I'm gutted to the core, words fail me.
The press conference is staggering.
How a junior player ends up being the one to tamper with the ball - at what point does someone say “hang on, this is a bad idea”?
One thought that I had is that Smith might not have known about it... hence the talk of the leadership group... and he as the captain is taking the fall for others (e.g Warner)... who would get suspended.
But it is just incredibly stupid from all of them.
The press conference is staggering.
How a junior player ends up being the one to tamper with the ball - at what point does someone say “hang on, this is a bad idea”?
One thought that I had is that Smith might not have known about it... hence the talk of the leadership group... and he as the captain is taking the fall for others (e.g Warner)... who would get suspended.
But it is just incredibly stupid from all of them.
Can't see how Smith can captain the team for the rest of this game let alone the remaining test, send all those involved home wipe the slate clean and start again. If he dint know what was going then he's not in control anyway so he needs to go, if he did know then enough said and he has admitted as much. If we don't take a stance now we will forever be the laughing stock of world cricket.
This is un farrking believable.... how stupid is Smith ??
Smith as good as a batsmen as he is.... has got to be sacked immediately. Should never Captain Australia again and should be suspended for a decent period.
I cant beleive it ????????
A sad day for Australian cricket and a big dent in our reputation as a sporting nation
:( >:(
Certainly a bad mistake.
Of course Du Plessis did the same thing a couple of years ago when the Saffies were out here.
Doesn't make it right though. :o
Can't see how Smith can captain the team for the rest of this game let alone the remaining test, send all those involved home wipe the slate clean and start again. If he dint know what was going then he's not in control anyway so he needs to go, if he did know then enough said and he has admitted as much. If we don't take a stance now we will forever be the laughing stock of world cricket.
It’s just that hard to believe... you sort of think there has to be a reason to explain it!
Otherwise he is a complete idiot.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/australia/opinion-steve-smith-has-eradicated-publics-trust-in-australian-test-team-and-he-owes-us-badly/news-story/89311ec71f35b68e840f108923eb702a (https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/australia/opinion-steve-smith-has-eradicated-publics-trust-in-australian-test-team-and-he-owes-us-badly/news-story/89311ec71f35b68e840f108923eb702a)
Smith is dead.
That team must have a combined IQ of 10 or so.
I have not followed cricket for a few years now having become rather disenchanted with the antics of the players so I rarely ever comment on it. This latest horror though just about takes the cake - is it the final destination for the slide in standards of behaviour, loss of integrity and lack of corrective action over the years? Surely something must be done to rehabilitate the game's image or has test cricket reached its final resting place. Very very sad. :(
I have not followed cricket for a few years now having become rather disenchanted with the antics of the players so I rarely ever comment on it. This latest horror though just about takes the cake - is it the final destination for the slide in standards of behaviour, loss of integrity and lack of corrective action over the years? Surely something must be done to rehabilitate the game's image or has test cricket reached its final resting place. Very very sad. :(
Well said. Likewise my interest in cricket has waned ...after having loved the game. Everyone involved should be dumped from Oz cricket.
Did the Coach know too?
Did the Coach know too?
Have a feeling he won’t be coach for much longer... once they get a full list of everyone who was in on it, I think quite a few are going to be on a plane home.
There is an air of entitlement that comes with being a NSW Cricketer, it's the same air of entitlement that has seen the scandals in NRL.
The irony is not lost on me that the NRL smashed the Storm yet used the wet lettuce leaf on their home state villains.
The same mentality is in play with the cricket team pointing the finger at SA for stepping over the line!
I'm sorry to say I think NSWelshmen have grown up with double standards for so long they now think it's normal, they have a bad case of the James Hirds!
I'm disgusted and ashamed, what a bunch of morons! But be prepared for the wet lettuce leaf, ball tampering is more common than you think, plenty have been found guilty of it before (including Faf du Plessis twice, and Vernon Philander once), and the punishments are laughable (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-25/how-australias-ball-tampering-shame-stacks-up-with-other-cases/9584594), don't expect anyone to miss a Test match, Bancroft and Smith will likely be fined, noone will lose their job or the captaincy (if the ICC are consistent with their punishments for ball tampering)
I'm disgusted and ashamed, what a bunch of morons! But be prepared for the wet lettuce leaf, ball tampering is more common than you think, plenty have been found guilty of it before (including Faf du Plessis twice, and Vernon Philander once), and the punishments are laughable (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-25/how-australias-ball-tampering-shame-stacks-up-with-other-cases/9584594), don't expect anyone to miss a Test match, Bancroft and Smith will likely be fined, noone will lose their job or the captaincy (if the ICC are consistent with their punishments for ball tampering)
They never admitted it, they still deny ball tampering!
Smith or some of the other Australian's are now going to be whacked much like Carlton got whacked after Collin's begged for forgiveness!
There is an international cultural issue here. Australian's see cheating as despicable and want it stamped out, we'll through our own team under the bus to see it stamped out!
Asian nations, especially those dominating the ICC panel, think cheating is normal and you should be rewarded for cheating if you are clever enough to get away with it. As a result they have a societal stance to never admit guilt, any admission is taken as a sign of weakness. I suspect form the recent goings on SA also fall in this boat!
Understood, but they were all found guilty, so the punishment was for ball tampering (whether they admitted to it or not)
Sutherlands press conference was a bit awkward... not much more he could do or say with it happening on the other side of the world overnight.
At least Smith put his hand up and didnt throw Bancroft under the bus... but by saying the whole leadership was in on it leaves us up poo creek selecting a new captain.... he's got to resign... surely ?
Sutherlands press conference was a bit awkward... not much more he could do or say with it happening on the other side of the world overnight.
At least Smith put his hand up and didnt throw Bancroft under the bus... but by saying the whole leadership was in on it leaves us up poo creek selecting a new captain.... he's got to resign... surely ?
Actually, if Australia have gathered a library of evidence that they can produce to prove they are just following suit as a reaction to the behaviour of other nations, tactically this could be a very good thing!
The Australian public won't accept that behaviour, but it might be exactly what the game currently needs to clean up all the rubbish that has infiltrated the game since the formation of the IPL.
Smith is goneski, whether he likes it or not.
I don't care what has happened with other countries, other than it means the ICC response will be minimal, it has to be due to the precedents already set with other cases.
I don't think CA has the balls to sack Boof and Smith, but they should and Warner. Everyone in the leadership group should be sacked. This is not the standard we have for those representing our country and it is a disgrace. Smith was going to (and probably still will) leave a legacy as one of the games best ever bats, but he will also be remembered as a cheat.
I would like to see the ICC change the rules on tampering to see bans ranging from 6 months - 2 years for a 1st offense and life ban for a second offense.
This should be the same as drug cheating, match fixing the works. It is CHEATING pure and simple.
Any argument about others doing it and how prevalent it irrelevant, it is cheating and Smith and Bancroft were well aware how this would play out when caught. The Australian public was never (rightly) going to accept it.
I think the penalties will be embarrassingly light and I think if they try and push much harder they risk a player revolt, but Lehman, Saker should be sacked by CA and Smith, Warner and any others in the leadership should be removed from being leaders.
CA should then come out and say as part of a code of conduct, any other Australian found guilty of cheating will not be considered for selection to the Australian team for a minimum of 6 months in any form.
These self indulgent, whining bunch of pr!cks have embarrassed the nation
Sutherlands press conference was a bit awkward... not much more he could do or say with it happening on the other side of the world overnight.
At least Smith put his hand up and didnt throw Bancroft under the bus... but by saying the whole leadership was in on it leaves us up poo creek selecting a new captain.... he's got to resign... surely ?
I think it was a lame attempt though, I think he has has said.. you need to take some blame, but we will confess it was our suggestion to share the load.
They should have said
"We the leadership instructed Cam to do this"
It is obvious to the world Cam didn't just 'overhear' this and go and decide to do it.
So be a real leader and admit you asked him to do it.
If someone tells you to shoot somebody else dead, and you do it, you are guilty!
If someone tells you to shoot somebody else dead, and you do it, you are guilty!
Oh Bancroft is absolutely guilty
No that I don't deny it any sense. There is not "my superior told me to do it defense"
Just that they should come completely clean on how it happened.
Oh and it should have been Lehman and Smith at the presser not Bancroft.
Handscombe laughing when he got the call from Lehman... then laughing and smiling when he went and spoke to Bancroft.... EMBARRASSING.
Lehman had to be in on too
As I said about Warner, they are all just a bunch of bafoons. Pull out the match now, get em all on a plane home ( which I would make them pay for) and make them ALL face some serious diciplinery action. Embarrassing.
Cricket has a LONG history of wet lettuce leaf punishments (hi to Kasiga Rabada), I don't expect this to change
Unbelievably stupid. Could they not find any flesh coloured sandpaper?
But seriously, I was sure this was ‘fake news’ when I read about it this morning.
Shameful and embarrassing. All Australian men’s cricket teams will be tainted for years to come. We will be ridiculed as ‘cheats’ and there’s no come back for that.
I love the game, my son plays junior cricket, every year we make the trek to Melbourne to see a day of the Boxing Day Test. I can tell you for sure that if Smith and Warner are playing in the next Boxing Day Test I won't be going
Faf de Plessis is a cheat as well, he didn't get a suspension and showed zero contrition.
Because Bancroft's Australian he'll get a suspension because we're the only country that does anything wrong. Personnally I'd suspend him, ball tampering is against the rules, although they all do it.... even the saffies.
As for the bloke who followed Warner up the steps.... a greater F###wit I am yet to see, and I've seen just about every variety of flog on this planet.
I don't know that I've given myself time to think about this, but I feel that I have to say something. Well, more than a few things. It is me, after all, and I tend to write a lot.
[1] Smith and the 'leadership group' have made a serious error. They should be penalized for it. I may not like it, but these guys broke the rules and the spirit of the game and must face some sort of consequence.
[2] It worries me when we do the wrong thing, as we generally don't. We generally hold the upper ground when it comes to morality, so when we fail it does a lot of damage to our arguments. We blame those who do cheat. Well, we've done it this time and we should show what it means to us.
On the other hand, many others seem to consider the rules most elastically. Mr. du Plessis, for example. His excuse is pretty unlikely. If he can prove that he was hacked, well fair enough. But it is simply a statement from him of a very improbable nature.
Mr. Rabada has demonstrated more than once that his unsportsmanlike behavior is part of him. As a result, he doesn't really have a leg to stand on when his conduct is concerned. That decisions can be made that take no account at all of the views of the person on the receiving end is something I find unreasonable and unprofessional at best, simple corruption at the worst.
English pacemen a few years back were caught using lollie to make the ball swing. They succeeded on winning as a result. They cheated and admitted it some time after. Yet the series result was allowed to stand. No consequences at all. Extremely poor.
I won't go into what happens on the sub-continent. The corruption there beggars description.
So, what am I saying? Fair enough. We got caught and should b punished. But does not appear to be the case with others. What is good enough for us is good enough for the rest of them.
[3] That Smith and company instructed Bancroft to do this act is something that bothers me. If they can come up with this stupid idea, then they should have done it, not farmed it off to the most inexperienced payer in the team.
This is a dark period in Australian Cricket and should be seen as such. It just makes me worry that the standards we set, and those set upon us, do not seem to be applied as they should be. It is time that cricket cleaned up its act. This sort of rubbish, in fact, the whole situation as it has come to pass in South Africa, should never have been allowed to occur. It does damage to the image of the whole game.
Who is the Australian Sports Commission?
https://www.ausport.gov.au/news/asc_news/story_668717_asc_statement_on_australian_cricket
I've never heard a peep from them before that I can recall, despite some pretty heavy stories across a whole lot of sports. Agendas within agendas going on here I suspect
Let's not have talk about the leadership group...there's an intimation there that it's someone else chiefly to blame.
The captain should go down with the ship.
The buck stops there.
Let's not have talk about the leadership group...there's an intimation there that it's someone else chiefly to blame.
The captain should go down with the ship.
The buck stops there.
Sounds to me like there is a massive problem with the culture of the team and the captain is obviously one of those with prime responsibility. However an extensive review of the team management and leadership combined with some deep soul searching will be needed to fix this. Also, how much of this is reflective of what goes on in the game generally? A very concerning matter for true cricket lovers.
It does bring up an interesting dynamic.
I've never been overly concerned with our salary cap penalties.
I think they were thoroughly deserved.
I hold my club to a high standard...a standard greater than I'd apply to other sides.
I think that there are many who'd feel the same about our National Cricket side.
The penalty needs to be severe.
Why severely punish Australians for ball-tampering when those from other sides (including Captains du Plessis and Atherton) have only got wet lettuce leaf punishments? I think this incident is exposing a deep underlying dislike of Smith (and Warner), why should they be treated differently to others that have committed the same offense previously?
Why severely punish Australians for ball-tampering when those from other sides (including Captains du Plessis and Atherton) have only got wet lettuce leaf punishments? I think this incident is exposing a deep underlying dislike of Smith (and Warner), why should they be treated differently to others that have committed the same offense previously?
I think it's more about us holding ourselves to a higher standard
That's why we're getting the reaction.
I like Smith but I'm disappointed.
I don't care about others.
Why severely punish Australians for ball-tampering when those from other sides (including Captains du Plessis and Atherton) have only got wet lettuce leaf punishments? I think this incident is exposing a deep underlying dislike of Smith (and Warner), why should they be treated differently to others that have committed the same offense previously?
THE ICC may well use the sioggy leaf approach.
Cricket Australia simply should sack Smith now.
It's not on.
Why severely punish Australians for ball-tampering when those from other sides (including Captains du Plessis and Atherton) have only got wet lettuce leaf punishments? I think this incident is exposing a deep underlying dislike of Smith (and Warner), why should they be treated differently to others that have committed the same offense previously?
Because in Australia we hate cheats in any sport. Players that dive in football, players that dive in soccer, any player that takes supplements etc.
In another country a player can be banned for steroid abuse and the media will beat it up as people being out to discredit the country, not in this country.
In another country an athlete could come back from a 2 year steroid suspension and the public is very unlikely to take to them, because they are a cheat. They are systematically cheating.
We as a country should hold our cricketers to high standards, they are the role models setting the standard for our kids and the next generation.
It should be clear that if you cannot treat you privilege to play for Australia with the respect it requires, then you should not play for it and you absolutely should not lead it.
We don't want to become accepting of cheats, we want to lead the hollering at those that do cheat, because we wouldn't do that. We win, but we win fair.
If Australia take a wet lettuce leaf approach to sanctions against this crop, they ask Australian's to change their ideas on how they view our sportsmen and to change to a "win at any costs" approach, because the penalties are slight anyway.
CA has an obligation to treat these players the way THEY believe cricketers from any country should be treated, not the way they would just want the opposition to be treated.
If we preach higher ideals, then these penalties from CA must be severe and the leaders must fall.
It does bring up an interesting dynamic.
I've never been overly concerned with our salary cap penalties.
I think they were thoroughly deserved.
I hold my club to a high standard...a standard greater than I'd apply to other sides.
............................
Careful lods. If you don't hold the view that we are constantly the victims of unfairness, double standards, corruption and incompetence from the ruling bodies and powers that be, you'll be considered a pariah. Actually, as a mod, you won't, but the rest of us hapless schnooks............
THE ICC may well use the sioggy leaf approach.
Cricket Australia simply should sack Smith now.
It's not on.
Smith Warner and Lehman will all get sacked.
I don’t expect any of them will be there for the last test.
Lehman has bred this culture and must be held accountable.
Renshaw and Burns will play next test.
When people ask why warner should have been sanctioned for his actions earlier on the tour, you now have your answer.
Same as Rabada. You need to be strong with that type of behaviour or you end up with this kind of garbage.
Same reason Harbajan should never have got away with his garbage and Sachin should have been hauled over the coals for lying.
If the administrators don’t stamp it out early it festers.
Smith Warner and Lehman will all get sacked.
I don’t expect any of them will be there for the last test.
Lehman has bred this culture and must be held accountable.
Renshaw and Burns will play next test.
When people ask why warner should have been sanctioned for his actions earlier on the tour, you now have your answer.
Same as Rabada. You need to be strong with that type of behaviour or you end up with this kind of garbage.
Same reason Harbajan should never have got away with his garbage and Sachin should have been hauled over the coals for lying.
If the administrators don’t stamp it out early it festers.
In general life and in sport, I can personally attest that this is 154% true. Well said JH.
Why severely punish Australians for ball-tampering when those from other sides (including Captains du Plessis and Atherton) have only got wet lettuce leaf punishments? I think this incident is exposing a deep underlying dislike of Smith (and Warner), why should they be treated differently to others that have committed the same offense previously?
It’s the bit where they cooked up the idea and made/allowed a junior player to do it that gets them in big trouble.
The actual ball tampering bit has it’s own punishment within ICC rules... whatever that is will apply to Bancroft.
Smith and Warner have both stood down for the remainder of the Test
Tim Paine is captain
https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/03/25/08/26/steve-smith-refuses-to-stand-down-after-admitting-ball-tampering-involvement
Smith and Warner have both stood down for the remainder of the Test
Tim Paine is captain
https://www.9news.com.au/national/2018/03/25/08/26/steve-smith-refuses-to-stand-down-after-admitting-ball-tampering-involvement
Hopefully they don't make it back into leadership group
"Leadership - the action of leading a group of people or an organisation, or the ability to do this."
It sounds so mechanical, yet it is so much more. Having people follow you about is like having people trailing behind you, this is how the 'former' leadership ran the place. I didn't see a lot of empowerment happening, no nurturing but more entitlement with bravado.
I find the reactions interesting. If we do ban Smith, Warner, Bancroft, Lyon and Hazlewood, then if we don't win a single Test match for the next 5 years, how is that helping? Test cricket is already on its knees
i dont follow cricket much, but smith was compared to the lofty acheivements of bradman.
- More cameras than tokyo airport.
- coach knew, sent the 12th man out to hide evidence
- Suspicions bancroft did this in england. (sugar in his pocket)
a personal legacy destroyed in 24 hours. A national embarrassment of the worst imaginable kind.
There's no way back for smith. He should take the bullet for the team, take a year out, and come back.
If He keeps playing, it'll never go away.
If the coach knew and condoned it, he needs to be sacked ASAP.
This is a carnage
It's a simple choice - do we want the beautiful character building game of cricket that we all grew up loving and respecting or do we want a mercenary, unethical, money-oriented, mean-spririted dogfight of a contest at the game's highest level? Make your own call.
I don't like any of what has played out in S.A., but I find the calls to hang Smith from the yard arm a bit much when Faf blatantly cheated on the last tour and didn't even score a suspension.
Pretty clear to me that the abuse they have copped has gotten too much and Smith et al. have snapped. Chuck in a serial recidivist in Rabada getting off a serious charge when he admitted guilt... yep, they've had a gutful.
And Mr Pissweak himself - Sutherland - will now roll over to the ICC and rub out our two best player. Meanwhile the BCCI and SAB are rubbing themselves with glee, notwithstanding their bodgy pitches, awful behaviour of their crowds , captains and players.... what's the one about glasshouses?
As for Herschelle Gibbs... fancy that clown getting on social media.
As for Herschelle Gibbs... fancy that clown getting on social media.
Another clear case of the James Hirds!
I don't like any of what has played out in S.A., but I find the calls to hang Smith from the yard arm a bit much when Faf blatantly cheated on the last tour and didn't even score a suspension.
Pretty clear to me that the abuse they have copped has gotten too much and Smith et al. have snapped. Chuck in a serial recidivist in Rabada getting off a serious charge when he admitted guilt... yep, they've had a gutful.
And Mr Pissweak himself - Sutherland - will now roll over to the ICC and rub out our two best player. Meanwhile the BCCI and SAB are rubbing themselves with glee, notwithstanding their bodgy pitches, awful behaviour of their crowds , captains and players.... what's the one about glasshouses?
As for Herschelle Gibbs... fancy that clown getting on social media.
Agree with this 100%
Smith Warner and Lehman will all get sacked.
I don’t expect any of them will be there for the last test.
Lehman has bred this culture and must be held accountable.
Renshaw and Burns will play next test.
When people ask why warner should have been sanctioned for his actions earlier on the tour, you now have your answer.
Same as Rabada. You need to be strong with that type of behaviour or you end up with this kind of garbage.
Same reason Harbajan should never have got away with his garbage and Sachin should have been hauled over the coals for lying.
If the administrators don’t stamp it out early it festers.
Agree...its all got out of hand and it does go back to the leaders and coach......Bancroft is probably one of the dumbest cricketers I have seen and I tend to
feel sorry for a young cricketer being led astray by the team leadership.
Warner has been under the pump on and off the field all series and has probably had enough of test cricket, the Saffies have had the last laugh on him
and he has wilted under the pressure of the taunting and having Rabada in his face every time he knocks him over.
Smith looks like a school kid playing adults cricket and has lost the plot and Lehman's efforts to cover up demand he be sacked.....
Its dirty laundry and it needs throwing out not washing, the Saffies have had plenty of their own this series but have won the battle of mental disintegration helped by a pathetic ICC
that continue to buckle under pressure ie Rabada getting off.
Its a hostile South Africa both on and off the field and I'm not sure what was going through our players heads thinking they wouldnt be caught with the media, fans, ICC and saffie officials watching everything after all the carry on this series...its comical from our blokes..sadly.
Cleaned up for 107. They looked very flat today, essentially we lost 10 for 60.
This is the end result of the AFL not going hard enough on EFC.
This is the end result of the AFL not going hard enough on EFC.
The ironic part is the TV deal is currently being negotiated, and these blokes took a stand last winter saying they deserve more $$$ and more say in how the game runs.
We now know they are not qualified/honest enough to run a chook raffle.
I think there are some great lessons here about professional sports people being so shut off from the real world.
I think any of us that have played sport can agree that you get wound up in the contest and want desperately to win, but these guys live their entire life like that, with very little external influence except for WAGS that are so drunk on the lifestyle they would do nothing but praise their partner for his "commitment".
The management of the team needs statesman of the game to oversee the team.
Clearly Lehman was either implicit or has lost the control of his senior players. Either way he is not the man for the job
Someone like Gilchrist should be in and around the team, but they need to sit back and not get involved unless they see that the playing group is starting to lose touch with public expectations.
The moment the Rabada appeal was upheld, there was always going to be issues. You would have thought, the CEO of Cricket Australia would have been prepared.
James Sutherland and Pat Howard both were sitting on their asses back in Australia. Both should lose their jobs.
James Sutherland and Pat Howard both were sitting on their asses back in Australia. Both should lose their jobs.
Should replace them with a couple of NSWelshman, eh? ;)
This is the end result of the AFL not going hard enough on EFC.
It's a growing trend in all world sports, too much money, reward for winning at any cost, not enough morality.
The marketing people will be sitting back and thinking, "Great, the anti-cheating dollar, that 's a big market!" :o
Sport - the new reality tv! Smith thrown out of the house?
Should replace them with a couple of NSWelshman, eh? ;)
It's a growing trend in all world sports, too much money, reward for winning at any cost, not enough morality.
The marketing people will be sitting back and thinking, "Great, the anti-cheating dollar, that 's a big market!" :o
Sutherland been in charge WAY too long....
Some Titus gold
https://www.titusoreily.com/cricket/australian-cricket-team-promise-get-better-cheating
Now the EFC supporters know how the rest of us feel
Sutherland been in charge WAY too long....
It's time for governments, state and federal, to cut funding and subsidies for professional sports and direct the money where it will do some real good! ;)
They won't let us earn some money by exporting Uranium, but they are happy to send that toxic bunch to represent us all!
It's only two years ago the Feds were touting Australia as a research destination and world leader in sports science and technology. They wanted us to be the Silicon Valley of Sports Science, well it looks like we got the silicon part correct, in the form of some rather scratchy sand!
Wonder how Faf Du Plessis retained his job given he's been sanctioned TWICE for ball tampering. Won't be hearing much from them. Been a long list of players sanctioned for ball tampering. Imran Khan with the bottle top, Tendulkar suspended for a Test, Philander in 2014, Waqar, Atherton, Shahid Afridi. Not to mention England cheating using mints on the ball during the entire 2005 Ashes series. Thescothick told the whole story in his book. Now us. Been going on since day dot, only a few get caught. Time to put a stop to it.
If your going to cheat use the lolly, it's effect is alot faster, take forever to scuff up the rough side....haha.
Wonder how Faf Du Plessis retained his job given he's been sanctioned TWICE for ball tampering. Won't be hearing much from them. Been a long list of players sanctioned for ball tampering. Imran Khan with the bottle top, Tendulkar suspended for a Test, Philander in 2014, Waqar, Atherton, Shahid Afridi. Not to mention England cheating using mints on the ball during the entire 2005 Ashes series. Thescothick told the whole story in his book. Now us. Been going on since day dot, only a few get caught. Time to put a stop to it.
If your going to cheat use the lolly, it's effect is alot faster, take forever to scuff up the rough side....haha.
Actually Du Plessis has been out and about in the press, stating his actions were not as serious as the Australian's. He said he was just superficially polishing the ball with a lolly which he claims isn't altering the condition of the ball! :o
Let's not forget, back prior to the 60s and 70s you could scrub the ball on the pitch to roughen it up for your spinner. Why not allow that, and all this stuff disappears! The MCC only banned it because the Asia countries kept handing England and Australia a shellacking on the sub-continent.
Finally on this whole issue, it often seems to be batsmen going on about this ball tampering issue, I was a opening bowler for almost 15 years and other than the benefits of chucking the pill in the deep freezer overnight before a game I found very little real benefit from any of those supposed actions to improve it's condition for swing, seam or spin. It was all in the head of usually, some batsmen / captain. All this lolly sh1te is for people who do not know how to polish a pill without making it soggy!
The most beneficial thing was clearly and cleanly bowling the ball with some decent seam control! I watch Starc closely and half the time his release is so bad the ball might as well not have a seam! ;)
If the batsmen / captain wanted to maximize his influence, he needed to spend more time learning how to set decent fields and less time on how to alter the pill! ;)
Wonder how Faf Du Plessis retained his job given he's been sanctioned TWICE for ball tampering. Won't be hearing much from them. Been a long list of players sanctioned for ball tampering. Imran Khan with the bottle top, Tendulkar suspended for a Test, Philander in 2014, Waqar, Atherton, Shahid Afridi. Not to mention England cheating using mints on the ball during the entire 2005 Ashes series. Thescothick told the whole story in his book. Now us. Been going on since day dot, only a few get caught. Time to put a stop to it.
If your going to cheat use the lolly, it's effect is alot faster, take forever to scuff up the rough side....haha.
Faf used the Zipper and the mintie ;).....I think the Smith/Bancroft tape incident is more comical and stupid making it more newsworthy and serious because our blokes were so dumb, WTF were thinking with all those cameras on them? If they want more swing and movement then maybe pick Sayers......
Faf used the Zipper and the mintie ;).....I think the Smith/Bancroft tape incident is more comical and stupid making it more newsworthy and serious because our blokes were so dumb, WTF were thinking with all those cameras on them? If they want more swing and movement then maybe pick Sayers......
All this stuff is a certain sign that the players involved are not up to the standard to allow them to compete.
I'm sure that is not the case for Smith's batting, but for his captaincy? Well, I think the recent events now answer that question!
Wonder how Faf Du Plessis retained his job given he's been sanctioned TWICE for ball tampering. Won't be hearing much from them. Been a long list of players sanctioned for ball tampering. Imran Khan with the bottle top, Tendulkar suspended for a Test, Philander in 2014, Waqar, Atherton, Shahid Afridi. Not to mention England cheating using mints on the ball during the entire 2005 Ashes series. Thescothick told the whole story in his book. Now us. Been going on since day dot, only a few get caught. Time to put a stop to it.
If your going to cheat use the lolly, it's effect is alot faster, take forever to scuff up the rough side....haha.
I don't think we need to set the bar on the actions of those listed above.
We need to be better than that, and then beat them anyway.
Yeah they all cheated, but does that mean it's ok for us to do it?
You start to sound like the USA gun lobby arguing for guns in school.
I don't think we need to set the bar on the actions of those listed above.
We need to be better than that, and then beat them anyway.
Yeah they all cheated, but does that mean it's ok for us to do it?
You start to sound like the USA gun lobby arguing for guns in school.
JH, yesterday's innings was the perfect time for a leader to stand up. Perfect timing for a Simpson, Border or Chappelli moment!
Instead they went all Kim Hughes on us, and folded like a deck of cards!
All this stuff is a certain sign that the players involved are not up to the standard to allow them to compete.
I'm sure that is not the case for Smith's batting, but for his captaincy? Well, I think the recent events now answer that question!
I think the coach has a lot to answer for.
Smith was never this type. Nathan Lyon has also become very boorish recently.
David Warner was known by his team mates as the reverend up until 12-18 months ago because he shut his mouth and played cricket.
But the coach said we needed players with a more verbal approach and suddenly Matthew Wade replaces Nevill.
Warner is asked to re ignite the attack dog approach.
Lehman is a where these issues start. He and the fool that employed him and left overseeing a sport that is looking for $1B in TV rights.
JH, yesterday's innings was the perfect time for a leader to stand up. Perfect timing for a Simpson, Border or Chappelli moment!
Instead they went all Kim Hughes on us, and folded like a deck of cards!
Totally agree, but Shane Warne is the only bloke I have seen that never let public scandal of that size effect his performance.
Not sure what it has to do with setting our standards higher than the Saffers, Indians or Pakistani's
I’d love to know who came up with bright idea to send Bancroft and Smith into that press conference... and who knew what Smith was going to say in advance.
Totally agree, but Shane Warne is the only bloke I have seen that never let public scandal of that size effect his performance.
Not sure what it has to do with setting our standards higher than the Saffers, Indians or Pakistani's
I don't think the opposition has any relevance or that it's valid to make that comparison.
It's just an opportunity to stand up and lead, we needed someone to look like the general out there last night, and nobody really did!
Our lot might not beat SA again in the remainder of their careers, SA =have gotten into our blokes heads.
So should we cut and run with a completely new squad!
btw., I had always thought this should have been the CheatsFC best strategy. Come clean then wash yourself clean and move on, instead they have been hanging onto and dragging around their filth until it erodes away!
I’d love to know who came up with bright idea to send Bancroft and Smith into that press conference... and who knew what Smith was going to say in advance.
Hmm, based on events I'm not sure anyone thinks that deeply. FFS, we have a coach who's nickname is Boofhead!
I think the coach has a lot to answer for.
Smith was never this type. Nathan Lyon has also become very boorish recently.
David Warner was known by his team mates as the reverend up until 12-18 months ago because he shut his mouth and played cricket.
But the coach said we needed players with a more verbal approach and suddenly Matthew Wade replaces Nevill.
Warner is asked to re ignite the attack dog approach.
Lehman is a where these issues start. He and the fool that employed him and left overseeing a sport that is looking for $1B in TV rights.
Smith is dumb and a schoolboy captain, Warner is a better captain tactically but he is damaged goods everywhere he goes and always sucked into trouble.
He started the rot when he sooked after DeKock hit back at him and SA have been on top since....leading to the desperation we have seen and cheating saga.
Agree on Lehman......Langar will be the new coach and I'd expect Warner to retire from Test Cricket...Smith has stuffed up his IPL career too..
Wouldnt be surprised if a non event type like Shaun Marsh is made the new captain...WA boy, popular, experienced and most of all low profile in terms of creating problems...
...Smith has stuffed up his IPL career too..
No way, by IPL standards Smith's value just went through the roof, they admire that sort of stuff!
That is the cheating, not the confession! ;)
The confession will make them think they can first put him to work for a win at all cost scenario, then take advantage of him!
Smith is dumb and a schoolboy captain, Warner is a better captain tactically but he is damaged goods everywhere he goes and always sucked into trouble.
He started the rot when he sooked after DeKock hit back at him and SA have been on top since....leading to the desperation we have seen and cheating saga.
Agree on Lehman......Langar will be the new coach and I'd expect Warner to retire from Test Cricket...Smith has stuffed up his IPL career too..
Wouldnt be surprised if a non event type like Shaun Marsh is made the new captain...WA boy, popular, experienced and most of all low profile in terms of creating problems...
Paine will be skipper.
Not sure about Langer as coach.
What the team really needs is some continual outside influence.
Not a team manager, but a couple of ex players, that travel with the squad. Change them regularly so they don't become part of the bubble.
They need to be the non smart ass type like a Katich, Gilchrist, Rogers that can look beyond the dressing room click and advise of any issues that may be foreseen.
I can't believe not one person saw these issues coming. CA should have been all over this stuff after the Rabada appeal.
There was always going to be a back lash.
No way, by IPL standards Smith's value just went through the roof, they admire that sort of stuff!
That is the cheating, not the confession! ;)
The confession will make them think they can first put him to work for a win at all cost scenario, then take advantage of him!
Think the Raji Royals have sacked him as skipper......agree the Indians dont mind a cheat but they have to be a good one who doesnt get caught.... ;)
Leaving aside Captaincy - and the bloke will never Captain his country again, ditto Warner; what is the right length of suspension (from playing) for all involved?
3 months, 6 months, 1 year?
Good question Flyboy.
For Smith I think it will be something like:
- stripped of captaincy
- stand down without pay for 6 mths... don’t play IPL if possible.
- Smith fronts the media in Australia, cops everything on the chin and apologises.
Everyone makes mistakes, other cricketers have done worse (e.g rebel tours of Sth Africa in the 80’s) and been able to play again.
Leaving aside Captaincy - and the bloke will never Captain his country again, ditto Warner; what is the right length of suspension (from playing) for all involved?
3 months, 6 months, 1 year?
A Test and a fine like everyone else in history who have been caught ball tampering. Maybe stripped of the captaincy too. His opposite number Du Plessis is still captaining his side after being caught twice ball tampering. He got fined twice, that was it.
Why are our players held to different standards? The penalty should be a slap on the wrist and move on like everyone else.
I agree with this, nothing to see here, move along
Rightly or wrongly it's part of our make-up.
We hold our sportsman to a higher standard.
Other folks cheat...that's bad.
We cheat, that's devastating.
...and for many unacceptable.
That's why we're seeing the response.
Agree, and I fully expect us to shoot ourselves in the foot in the next couple of days
Rightly or wrongly it's part of our make-up.
We hold our sportsman to a higher standard.
Other folks cheat...that's bad.
We cheat, that's devastating.
...and for many unacceptable.
That's why we're seeing the response.
Nothing wrong with that Lods.
Rightly or wrongly it's part of our make-up.
We hold our sportsman to a higher standard.
Other folks cheat...that's bad.
We cheat, that's devastating.
...and for many unacceptable.
That's why we're seeing the response.
We were dumb and stupid how we cheated, what we did is laughable compared to sucking a mintie and using that saliva or rubbing sunscreen on the ball.....Lehman trying to signal the players they had been caught...please...
Does it get any worse, the level of embarrassment make its worse because we so pathetic at cheating and so obvious.....Bancroft wouldnt be able to dodge a fruit fly inspector, he would probably have a banana sticking out of his pocket he is that dopey...
Why are our players held to different standards? The penalty should be a slap on the wrist and move on like everyone else.
Because us Aussies are the most vocal when others cheat, yet when ours do, it’s a “nothing to see here“ attitude. Can’t pick and choose when to to take the moral high ground.
Other folks cheat...that's bad.
We cheat, that's devastating.
...and for many unacceptable.
That's why we're seeing the response.
SPOT ON
I don't care that other countries players / or captains have done it in the past and only been slapped on the wrist.
For our Australian Cricket Captain do have done this has made me sick in the stomach. He simply cannot keep the job.
SPOT ON
I don't care that other countries players / or captains have done it in the past and only been slapped on the wrist.
For our Australian Cricket Captain do have done this has made me sick in the stomach. He simply cannot keep the job.
I feel much the same and, if social media and callers to ABC radio are representative, so do many Australians.
Apart from Smith and Warner being paid handsomely to lead a team that represents our country, there’s the notion that cricket is a game that is above cheating hence, it’s just not cricket.
I guess that the same belief in fair play that fuels maintaining my rage against the Essendon drug cheats is in play when our cricketers cheat ... or any other national sporting team for that matter!
So what do you guys want CA to do? Plenty of social media keyboard warriors baying for life bans for Smith and Warner....
No. No life bans, Why should Australian cricket make itself hopeless for the next 10 years to appease a weak ICC that couldn't deal when issues when they arose years ago? Why should we ban our best players when the likes of Rabada gets away with shoulder charging blokes?
It's bad enough making Langer coach, the bloke is hopeless.. WA is a basket case, his batting "coaching" isn't helping squat...
So what do you guys want CA to do? Plenty of social media keyboard warriors baying for life bans for Smith and Warner....
It's not about being a keyboard warrior....the decision is one for the governing body.
I'm happy for them to make the judgement.
But they are no doubt aware of the level of disappointment the public feels.
As a result the sanctions are likely to be greater than some other offenders have experienced.
The message needs to be that..."This won't happen again.We're better than that"
So what do you guys want CA to do? Plenty of social media keyboard warriors baying for life bans for Smith and Warner....
Smith and "leadership" group to be banned from playing for Australia for a period if time.. maybe 6 months ?
No life bans... but Smith and Warner etc never to be part of leadership again... Id sack Lehman too whether he was in on it or not.
So what do you guys want CA to do? Plenty of social media keyboard warriors baying for life bans for Smith and Warner....
Given that this is likely to significantly compromise CA’s bargaining position in the broadcast rights process, Smith and Warner should receive financial penalties in addition to any suspension. If it was up to me, I would revoke their contracts and suspend them from all forms of international cricket for 12 months. It goes without saying that neither will hold leadership positions at national level again.
Questions must also be asked about Lehman’s role and if, as seems likely, he was a knowing participant, he should be sacked.
It’s interesting that other members of the leadership group are arcing up about Smith implicating them in the scandal. I reckon there has to be a clean out if we are to have a functional Australian team. Who knows, we could end up with some Victorians playing international cricket ????
Something that I don't get is the hand wringing about Australia doing "whatever it takes" to win games... the jarpies haven't exactly been angelic in that realm either or gone out of their way to calm the situation down over there.
World cricket as a whole needs a dramatic shift in attitudes, and it needs to be driven from head office i.e. the ICC not driven from a branch office, i.e. Australia. Problem is that the ICC is WASP and lacks the cojones to effect real change.
It’s interesting that other members of the leadership group are arcing up about Smith implicating them in the scandal.
I don't blame them... If Smith was a decent Captain or had any balls he would have taken the wrap himself. "Ï'm the Captain the buck stops with me"
But now he's come out and said leadership group they are all tarred with the same brush. ( even if some of them were against it ? )
Something that I don't get is the hand wringing about Australia doing "whatever it takes" to win games... the jarpies haven't exactly been angelic in that realm either or gone out of their way to calm the situation down over there.
World cricket as a whole needs a dramatic shift in attitudes, and it needs to be driven from head office i.e. the ICC not driven from a branch office, i.e. Australia. Problem is that the ICC is WASP and lacks the cojones to effect real change.
This is the problem. I'm all for heavy sanctions against Smith and Warner, they deserve it for stupidity and arrogance as much as anything else. But if we do that, the rest of the cricket world thumbs their noses at us and laughs hysterically, because they have got away with the same thing with no penalties. We lose, they win
Not the point Jack.
I'm with you Jack. Smith et al deserve heavy sanctions. But so do du Plessis, Rabada, Philander and whomever else has transgressed.
You don't get rid of cancer by removing some of the tumours, you have to take the lot, regardless of where they reside.
Agree with that. What's particularly galling is the holier than thou crap coming out of England, from the likes of Vaughan and Swann. FFS these guys orchestrated a plan in 2005 to rub mint juice on the ball, don;t try to tell me that 6 or 7 guys came up with this idea independently, this was a well planned and executied example of group cheating, and it worked beautifully - their bowlers hooped the old ball around corners in that series and we couldn't get it to deviate off the straight. And btw they are currently playing a bloke in tests in NZ who has a court date soon for an action that could have killed a bloke outside a pub in Bristol. Yet they have the moral high ground? Please
No one (other than their own media) is suggesting any moral high ground.
The point is our Captain and his 'leadership' team (of brain dead spuds) hatched a plan to cheat and got caught red handed....most likely the Coach was in on it too.
Nothing to do with what the Saffers or the Poms did or even got away with...
This will cost CA squillions - sponsors will walk, the TV negotations just lost potency.
Smith has essentially destroyed himself and Australian cricket for quite some years.... lengthy bans must and will be be imposed.
Personally, if Starc, Lyon and Hazelwood were in on it too - see you later lads.
Would love to hear Johnny Howard and Bob Hawke's take on this....
Starc has been bowling poop in any event!
These blokes are privileged - and earn millions ++ AND they don't get it....
These blokes are privileged - and earn millions ++ AND they don't get it....
Nor do a few on here.
The same attitude as EFC.
Everyone else is doing it so why shouldn't we.
FFS, grow up
Not the point Jack.
Agree. Cricket is the real loser. It seems to have become just another sad reflection of the screwed up values our world is currently struggling with. Remember "Whatever it takes"?
Agree. Cricket is the real loser. It seems to have become just another sad reflection of the screwed up values our world is currently struggling with. Remember "Whatever it takes"?
I think you're right Cookie. Maybe it's a generational thing....
I certainly will be steering my kids away from cricket now....
It seems that the new broadcast agreement will have a “disrepute clause” that will result in financial penalties for CA when players cheat or otherwise muck up.
I think you're right Cookie. Maybe it's a generational thing....
I certainly will be steering my kids away from cricket now....
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/whatever-else-they-achieve-steve-smith-and-co-have-failed-20180326-p4z699.html
On this theme you may find this of interest.
Lehman set to resign......Smith and Warner look like getting hefty punishment..
I find it hard to believe the bowlers didn't know what was going on, what sort of test bowler doesn't notice the condition of the ball changing? Normally, if there is so much as a thread out of place the bowlers will complain to the umpires.
Even if they were not in on the scam, they must have noticed something! :o
SPOT ON
I don't care that other countries players / or captains have done it in the past and only been slapped on the wrist.
For our Australian Cricket Captain do have done this has made me sick in the stomach. He simply cannot keep the job.
Right! So if he Carlton got done for PEDs this year and everyone including Mark Robinson and Tim Watson wanted us expelled from the competition for good you wouldn't care? ;D
Right! So if he Carlton got done for PEDs this year and everyone including Mark Robinson and Tim Watson wanted us expelled from the competition for good you wouldn't care? ;D
Slight difference ;)
If Carlton got done for PEDS I'd want everyone responsible gone from the club forever.
Nobody's suggesting Australia be banned from cricket forever.
Smith and Co will have to work hard for redemption...but they shouldn't be written off completely either.
It's interesting, I heard one report yesterday that they were a bit gobsmacked by the reaction at home. That's probably due to living in a cricket bubble where they saw others do similar and get "hit with the wet lettuce leaf".
Right! So if he Carlton got done for PEDs this year and everyone including Mark Robinson and Tim Watson wanted us expelled from the competition for good you wouldn't care? ;D
Flubbo is slime.
From the weekend he ignores reports that CheatsFC played Merritt under a concussion cloud, and instead writes a diversionary article about SoJ.
Flubbo's behaviour is so transparent, I'm not sure how his contemporaries can keep a straight face when they talk with him!
Right! So if he Carlton got done for PEDs this year and everyone including Mark Robinson and Tim Watson wanted us expelled from the competition for good you wouldn't care? ;D
If Carlton were stooopid enough to get done for Peds this year I wouldn't give a fark what Robbo or Timmy would have to say about it ... I'd give up following the AFL and Carlton.
That's my point ........... how farrking stooopd are these blokes... ? they should be sacked for stupidity alone. ;)
I have a problem with that stance, it's the same reason I wasn't taking a carpet bombing approach to the whole CheatsFC list.
If you some CheatsFC beginner, and Hird comes up to you and pressures you to join in, some of them will be swayed. They become members of the Dirty34 without really contributing at all to the act.
Bancroft it appears was under the influence of Smith and Warner, they held significant sway over the beginner, Warner was acting as a mentor!
They were not asking him to kill somebody, it was something others had done before and been slapped on the wrist for being caught. The current problem comes about because the earlier penalties have been too soft. But that doesn't mean you throw everybody under a bus.
Some are still of the opinion the CheatsFC penalties were too soft, if they recover to compete at the pointy end in 2018 as quickly as it appears they haven't really suffered enough.
It's disappointing that the AFL are bringing James Hird back into the fold. Fitzpatrick was correct, he should never have been involved in AFL again. But it appears for some the carrot is too great!
But the ball tampering thing, is not the same scale as Roiding Up 34 players with illegal substances.
I'm happy to see our country's administration being the first to properly that ball tampering seriously. Problem is the ICC only grade it as a level 2 offence same as dissent towards an umpire. All it means if someone gets caught they just give away a 5 run penalty and change the ball if needed. The player gets a fine or one match. Not a real disincentive. It's been going on since the day dot and only the dumb ones get caught.
I'm also glad out administrators went to South Africa as it might send them a message too after they just bitched and complained when Faf got caught, which is now twice, and is STILL captain, not to mention Philander in 2014. Let them know what they are supposed to do when the system is cheated.
I'm happy to see our country's administration being the first to properly that ball tampering seriously. Problem is the ICC only grade it as a level 2 offence same as dissent towards an umpire. All it means if someone gets caught they just give away a 5 run penalty and change the ball if needed. The player gets a fine or one match. Not a real disincentive. It's been going on since the day dot and only the dumb ones get caught.
I'm also glad out administrators went to South Africa as it might send them a message too after they just bitched and complained when Faf got caught, which is now twice, and is STILL captain, not to mention Philander in 2014. Let them know what they are supposed to do when the system is cheated.
The ball tampering itself is not a big deal, it's not like it offers a clear benefit.
I see the current events as being more politically motivated, it's about the hypocrisy!
Even so there is no defense for Smith and Warner, but the penalties need to be proportional to du Plessis and Philander or CA will legally shoot itself in the foot!
btw., A while back the BCCI funded a university to look into the aerodynamics of a cricket ball. They spent a lot of money trying to find the formula that makes a ball swing and a bunch of very smart people drew a blank trying to establish a repeatable and reproducible regime!
The ball tampering itself is not a big deal, it's not like it offers a clear benefit.
I see the current events as being more politically motivated, it's about the hypocrisy!
Even so there is no defense for Smith and Warner, but the penalties need to be proportional to du Plessis and Philander or CA will legally shoot itself in the foot!
Rubbish.
Rubbish.
If CA come out and whack Smith and Warner too excessively, relative to earlier cases which can be considered precedents, it'll end up in the CAS.
Some wealthy supporter will fund Smith and Warner to fight the charges, and then people on the CA side lose more than they already have.
CA will not want the penalty challenged, it will cost them too much. I'll be shocked if on top of someone like Lehman losing his job Smith or Warner are banned for life as some want.
A caller on SEN about 30mins ago rang in with a story about Warner from a few years ago, I think before he played for Aus. I won't repeat the gory details but it showed the kind of attitude he had then and it was quite shocking. He was banned for his actions but when he was called up for national duties shortly afterwards the ban apparently was immediately lifted. Mmmm, bit of a problem there I think.
A caller on SEN about 30mins ago rang in with a story about Warner from a few years ago, I think before he played for Aus. I won't repeat the gory details but it showed the kind of attitude he had then and it was quite shocking. He was banned for his actions but when he was called up for national duties shortly afterwards the ban apparently was immediately lifted. Mmmm, bit of a problem there I think.
The factional movements behind the scenes in and around CA are far worse than CheatsFC, some will see the current events as an opportunity for a power shift.
But is it good or bad timing for CA, does the ratings spike and intense media interest reduce or increase the value of the sport to potential broadcasters?
I don't see a clear answer on that, it could go either way based on the number$.
Sorry if that seems cynical.
The ball tampering itself is not a big deal, it's not like it offers a clear benefit.
I see the current events as being more politically motivated, it's about the hypocrisy!
Even so there is no defense for Smith and Warner, but the penalties need to be proportional to du Plessis and Philander or CA will legally shoot itself in the foot!
btw., A while back the BCCI funded a university to look into the aerodynamics of a cricket ball. They spent a lot of money trying to find the formula that makes a ball swing and a bunch of very smart people drew a blank trying to establish a repeatable and reproducible regime!
England found mints worked very well on the ball in 2005...lol. Can really lacquer up the shiny side.
If CA come out and whack Smith and Warner too excessively, relative to earlier cases which can be considered precedents, it'll end up in the CAS.
Some wealthy supporter will fund Smith and Warner to fight the charges, and then people on the CA side lose more than they already have.
CA will not want the penalty challenged, it will cost them too much. I'll be shocked if on top of someone like Lehman losing his job Smith or Warner are banned for life as some want.
Something will be worked out where a couple will be sacrificed to save the rest......Warner will retire from test cricket IMO and Lehman will fall on his sword.
Smith wont be captain again but his ability as a player will keep him in the team, Bancroft as the junior player and not being probably the sharpest tool in the shed should be spared but his place wasnt cemented anyway
and he will need to earn his way back in the team.
The biggie for me is would Michael Clarke be considered for the Ashes series as captain.......
Something will be worked out where a couple will be sacrificed to save the rest......Warner will retire from test cricket IMO and Lehman will fall on his sword.
Smith wont be captain again but his ability as a player will keep him in the team, Bancroft as the junior player and not being probably the sharpest tool in the shed should be spared but his place wasnt cemented anyway
and he will need to earn his way back in the team.
The biggie for me is would Michael Clarke be considered for the Ashes series as captain.......
CLARKE, BIG BIG NO. I'd prefer Kim Hughes! ???
CLARKE, BIG BIG NO. I'd prefer Kim Hughes! ???
I'm waiting for Warnie to come out and pump up his mate Clarke to be the saviour..... ;)
Perhaps Warnie will make a comeback and be captain?
Perhaps Warnie will make a comeback and be captain?
Warnie as coach... ;)
England found mints worked very well on the ball in 2005...lol. Can really lacquer up the shiny side.
I can't help the fact that England are idiots who managed to convinced themselves of something that contradicts reality.
Saliva breaks down leather, it softens it because saliva contains enzymes like lipase and amylase, two ingredients used during the tanning process to soften and de-hair hides. It might make it look shinny at first, but it will break down the surface faster.
Any serious swing bowler will go troppo if they see someone using saliva in any mixture on the ball, the two smart things to use are sunscreen and perspiration. Perspiration is perfect because as it evaporates it forms crystals from the trace minerals and urea content which act like a varnish.
The classic vintage footage of Lillee wiping his finger across his brow then polishing the pill is no accident.
The classic vintage footage of Lillee wiping his finger across his brow then polishing the pill is no accident.
;D ;D ;D
Hazlewood and Starc trying to extricate themselves from the mess by saying its was Smiths idea and they had nothing to do with it, one of them wants a meeting with CA and their name cleared. Problem is they are part of the leadership group and are the bowlers most likely to benefit from the ball being tampered with..I'm calling BS on the fact they had nothing to do with the decision making and wanting to leave Smith hung out to dry is pathetic.... tells you where the team are too in terms of sticking together, not sure what is worse ..cheating or abandoning your captain, VC and opening batsman.
Starc needs a break anyways, looks exhausted and bowling pies.
Starc needs a break anyways, looks exhausted and bowling pies.
Down Hill skier?.......if I was Bancroft I'd be letting him know I put my career on the line by tampering with that ball for your benefit you SOB....and now you want to
save your own Ar$e and leave mine hung out....
He bowls pies when it gets tough, blames the runup, footholes etc etc...I'd play Richardson or Sayers and let him sulk and learn how to be proper teammate and stick together..
He bowls pies when it gets tough, blames the runup, footholes etc etc...I'd play Richardson or Sayers and let him sulk and learn how to be proper teammate and stick together..
x2
Keep him for the green tops, and let the big boys play when things are tough! ;)
Hazlewood and Starc trying to extricate themselves from the mess by saying its was Smiths idea and they had nothing to do with it, one of them wants a meeting with CA and their name cleared. Problem is they are part of the leadership group and are the bowlers most likely to benefit from the ball being tampered with..I'm calling BS on the fact they had nothing to do with the decision making and wanting to leave Smith hung out to dry is pathetic.... tells you where the team are too in terms of sticking together, not sure what is worse ..cheating or abandoning your captain, VC and opening batsman.
They plan on going to the players association. They are fuming apparently. Seems like it was Smith and Warner, with the latter the apparent instigator. Players want Warner out of the hotel and he's removed himself from the WatApp players group.
Renshaw is on his way over, Burns soon as will yet an unnamed player. Paine or Mitch Marsh will apparently be captain.
This is becoming an incredible soap opera!
Seems poor old Davie Warner running out of mates.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/cricket/david-warner-goes-rogue-as-bowlers-finger-him-as-ball-tampering-mastermind/news-story/92702dd2a3fb1446118f2833c01089d0
Could you post the text please (of the article)?
This link might work - may not be exactly the same article.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/cricket/players-turn-on-david-warner-as-ball-tampering-crisis-rips-team-apart/ar-BBKKQob?ocid=spartanntp
Oh Mr Hart - what a mess.
Bowlers knew about it according to this article
https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/cricket/the-bowlers-knew-about-it-the-whole-team-did/ar-BBKK06i?ocid=spartanntp
Talk about fair weather teammates, if you go down you go down as a team but this isnt a team anymore its a bunch of individuals trying to weasel their way out of responsibility. I tend to believe Smith that the leadership group knew and agreed to tapegate all be it was Warners idea.
This is something you expect from Pakistan cricket when players turn on each other like ours have....you feel like starting again by banning the leadership group as a whole and getting some more team oriented replacements...
Bowlers knew about it according to this article
https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/cricket/the-bowlers-knew-about-it-the-whole-team-did/ar-BBKK06i?ocid=spartanntp
Talk about fair weather teammates, if you go down you go down as a team but this isnt a team anymore its a bunch of individuals trying to weasel their way out of responsibility. I tend to believe Smith that the leadership group knew and agreed to tapegate all be it was Warners idea.
This is something you expect from Pakistan cricket when players turn on each other like ours have....you feel like starting again by banning the leadership group as a whole and getting some more team oriented replacements...
I could be way off the mark here but the fact that the cheaters are NSW cricketers may be relevant.
At the very least, the scandal could lead to an Australian team that's more representative of Sheffield Shield talent.
The word I have is this, among other rumours.
After the recent controversy Warner had decided to pull the pin on his test career, to concentrate on the IPL probably, but the word is he described it to team-mates as he's just had enough of the bullcrap and the decision was made when they started targeting his missus!
So he's raised his hand to take the heat for everyone involved, to be the scapegoat that stops half the team being sanctioned, and to save Smith's career!
This is so bizarre, it almost sounds plausible!
Weak as p!ss Sutherland.... how Lehman survived beggars belief. Who ran the investigation...Inspector Clouseau?
The word I have is this, among other rumours.
After the recent controversy Warner had decided to pull the pin on his test career, to concentrate on the IPL probably, but the word is he described it to team-mates as he's just had enough of the bullcrap and the decision was made when they started targeting his missus!
So he's raised his hand to take the heat for everyone involved, to be the scapegoat that stops half the team being sanctioned, and to save Smith's career!
This is so bizarre, it almost sounds plausible!
Too many rumours in this thread. Lets stick to facts.
Agree. Cricket is the real loser. It seems to have become just another sad reflection of the screwed up values our world is currently struggling with. Remember "Whatever it takes"?
I've not commented on this up to now & have just been going through the forum reading up......this post nails it in one sentence. Not one minute excusing what they did, but the drive for success (media & public driven) in all sports has become so over-emphasised that the health & enjoyment of the sport has become obliterated. And yes, this is an extension of the erosion of values such as respect, honesty, humility & integrity in our society.
I'm currently re-reading (I've read it many time since I was a boy) the autobiography of Ray Lindwall "Flying Stumps".......and I ache for the return to that era of cricket, and a return of such gems of blokes such as Lindwall playing our game today & providing examples to our kids that we can be proud of. However, it may well be a forlorn hope.
When you consider the position Steve Smith was thrown into as a 25 year old, it is hardly any wonder this has happened.
I don't want to excuse his actions in anyway, but....
Cricket is obviously a very different game to AFL and the responsibility placed on the national captain is enormous.
It is greater than that of AFL coach.
He is under scrutiny from everyone around the world for his own performances, his tactical ability and his statesmanship off the field.
What training do you think he had for this?
Who did CA put their to guide him and support him?
All the answers point to the top. CEO Sutherland had a duty of care to provide much better support and leadership in and around the team other than Boof head.
Time for a serious re-think on a sport that is looking for $1B TV rights
I've not commented on this up to now & have just been going through the forum reading up......this post nails it in one sentence. Not one minute excusing what they did, but the drive for success (media & public driven) in all sports has become so over-emphasised that the health & enjoyment of the sport has become obliterated. And yes, this is an extension of the erosion of values such as respect, honesty, humility & integrity in our society.
I'm currently re-reading (I've read it many time since I was a boy) the autobiography of Ray Lindwall "Flying Stumps".......and I ache for the return to that era of cricket, and a return of such gems of blokes such as Lindwall playing our game today & providing examples to our kids that we can be proud of. However, it may well be a forlorn hope.
Good post malo.
The Lindwall, Miller, Harvey days were great.
Too much money in sport these days. We are not talking dollars anymore, it's millions these days.
The amounts of money available in sport today encourages cheating.
Too many rumours in this thread. Lets stick to facts.
I realise it's a rumor, but I think this is the correct and relevant thread for it.
I've not commented on this up to now & have just been going through the forum reading up......this post nails it in one sentence. Not one minute excusing what they did, but the drive for success (media & public driven) in all sports has become so over-emphasised that the health & enjoyment of the sport has become obliterated. And yes, this is an extension of the erosion of values such as respect, honesty, humility & integrity in our society.
I'm currently re-reading (I've read it many time since I was a boy) the autobiography of Ray Lindwall "Flying Stumps".......and I ache for the return to that era of cricket, and a return of such gems of blokes such as Lindwall playing our game today & providing examples to our kids that we can be proud of. However, it may well be a forlorn hope.
Are we being a bit precious here, it's not like it was the glory days!
Forgive me if I am wrong, but back in Lindwall's day you could legally scrub the ball on the pitch. There was no rule saying you had to scrub it evenly all over the surface, you could scrub one side if you so choose.
For modern ball tampering, somewhat ironically cricket historians will say it was TV that forced the change, after TV was able to deliver higher quality slow motion replays "ball tampering" incidents became widely exposed. The broadcast medium that complains about slow games and non-results helped contribute to slow games and non-results! Should we listen to them now?
Now the whole game is over officiated. The umpires even interject if teams are not throwing the ball back on the full, like the thrower from the outfield has any real control over which side of the ball hits the ground! If they don't control the side that hits they are actually benefiting the batsmen! In any case, most 1st class grounds are like playing on a bowling green and the grass has almost no effect on the condition of the ball! It's a moronic over legislation and interjection that the game does not need, rules built on flaky theories not on facts, and initiated by batsmen who have moved into administration roles. Those poor unfairly treated batsmen who are victims of the big bad bowlers no doubt! :o
Unfortunately for the bowlers, cricket is a game of asymmetry, there are too many batsmen relative to bowlers and batsmen now govern the game!
I guess that if not wanting to see our national cricket team humiliated in front of the world after being caught cheating whilst on tour is "precious", then I guess some of us are guilty of that.
I guess that if not wanting to see our national cricket team humiliated in front of the world after being caught cheating whilst on tour is "precious", then I guess some of us are guilty of that.
In context of Malo's post about the Lindwall era, it's dead easy to think things were more gentile and honest in the past. But in that era pitches were left uncovered, they were frequently watered or otherwise doctored, bats were weighted or corked, you could scrub away at the ball on the pitch, bodyline was legal, etc., etc.. For which any number of rules have since been authored to address those issues.
As an analogy, what would a modern day AFL player think about lining up on Ted Whitten, Kevin "Cowboy" Neale, Captain Blood Jack Dyer or even a more recent Neil Balme! You know, back in the good old days!
Cricket was/is no different!
It's too easy to look at the distant past with rose coloured glasses.
I heard a discussion once were Bill Lawry described a past batsmen of great skill, who when the opportunity arose would jam the cricket ball in between his front foot spikes and the bat as part of a forward defensive stroke. Yet a bowler from the same era using a fingernail on the seam was illegal.
In context of Malo's post about the Lindwall era, it's dead easy to think things were more gentile and honest in the past. But in that era pitches were left uncovered, they were frequently watered or otherwise doctored, bats were weighted or corked, you could scrub away at the ball on the pitch, bodyline was legal, etc., etc.. For which any number of rules have since been authored to address those issues.
As an analogy, what would a modern day AFL player think about lining up on Ted Whitten, Kevin "Cowboy" Neale, Captain Blood Jack Dyer or even a more recent Neil Balme! You know, back in the good old days!
Cricket was/is no different!
It's too easy to look at the distant past with rose coloured glasses.
I heard a discussion once were Bill Lawry described a past batsmen of great skill, who when the opportunity arose would jam the cricket ball into his front foot spikes as part of a forward defensive stroke.
But what was done in SA was already illegal i.e. we cheated. The actions from the past you're describing were legal until rules were subsequently changed. Bit of a difference? I'm all for going all out within the rules.
But what was done in SA was already illegal i.e. we cheated. The actions from the past you're describing were legal until rules were subsequently changed. Bit of a difference? I'm all for going all out within the rules.
I'm not defending them Cookie, but I'm a bit over the media hyperbole, they make it out like it's never happened to this degree before, when in reality stuff like this has never stopped happening.
Personally I think the games ruling body got this exactly wrong, in much the same way they got the front foot rule wrong. Let the bowlers or captain legally use the pitch to scrub the ball under the observation of the umpires, let the teams throw the ball into the turf, to get any demonstrable benefit it's a skill they will actually have to practice. Do this and the whole TV Slow Mo ball tampering controversy evaporates!
The ball still has to fit through the umpires gauge, it has to remain mostly round, so there is a natural limit to any ball tampering that teams can apply.
I'm not defending them Cookie, but I'm a bit over the media hyperbole, they make it out like it's never happened to this degree before, when in reality stuff like this has never stopped happening.
The media can certainly be very tiresome but I try to ignore most of its rantings. I think I feel better for it. :)
The media can certainly be very tiresome but I try to ignore most of its rantings. I think I feel better for it. :)
There is some irony in the media taking the high ground on any issue, given it's litany of setting up subjects and doctoring reports and selective reporting. They want ratings, this is giving them ratings a plenty, it's such a conflict yet it's also a deliberate construction!
Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger!
Have you noticed how some of the NSW media have suddenly turned on their man Warner, their vitriol is extraordinary, up until now they were all into loving his passion? Which could be alternatively described as turning a blind eye to his behaviour!
Smith and Warner deserve a whack, but they don't deserve a hanging!
Finally, have you noticed a new slant surfacing in the media today, the calls for CA to be held accountable. That is the political opportunism I posted about earlier surfacing, the behind the scenes power struggle that is best described as parochial filth!
12 months for Smith and Warner, 9 months for Bancroft.
Shot. Foot. Ouch.
Well, CA had to come down harshly. They did.
What I want to see now if how they handle it. I want all three to come back stronger than ever. I might be wanting too much, as Warner appears to have lost the faith of the group. But I want him to come back hard!
I don't have high hopes for the coming test. After all, Bancroft was our highest run scorer. Both of the Marsh brothers and Khawaja have been down and nobody has got a century yet. They all need to lift, every single one of them. Their performances have not been to the standard we have come to expect from them.
I think the penalties are about right.
Maybe a bit harsh of Bancroft, he would have been under heavy influence form Warner and Smith.
Smith is the real disappointment for me, I didn't expect much better from Warner.
So when other countries F$$## up, are they going to take action or are they just going to laugh at us?
Don't really care about what other countries do. We finally took a stand and said it is unacceptable for those representing our country to cheat in a pre-meditated way.
Not sure that we have been told the whole story by CA...
So when other countries F$$## up, are they going to take action or are they just going to laugh at us?
They'll laugh at us, they already are!
In the end this will only make us stronger, this time next year several extra players will have been exposed to top level competition. I've argued for a long time, it's harder to lose your spot in the Australian Test Team than it is to walk on water!
I find it hard to believe that Lehman didn't know anything about it.. but even if he didn't he should fall on his sword. It's all turned to poo on his watch so move him on and let's start a fresh.
I hope Smith can come back from this in 12 months and get back to making runs. ( never to Captain or VC again. )
I wouldnt be fussed if Warner never plays for Australia again... reading between the lines I doubt he will while this current crop are still playing..I can see him selling out with a tell all book ( or paid interview ) and screwing everyone over. Hopefully not.
Bancroft... I feel a little bit for him... he may never get back and hasnt got millions in the bank like the other 2 have. ( but if u do the crime u do the time )
Hopefully we've set the bar and if anyone is stoopid enough to do it again they pay a similar price... I say hopefully because I doubt it.
Got what they deserved, hopefully it teaches generations to come whats right and wrong. Sick of the attitude "others dot it too". "Play the game as it should be played, at home or far away."
I find it hard to believe that Lehman didn't know anything about it.. but even if he didn't he should fall on his sword. It's all turned to poo on his watch so move him on and let's start a fresh.
I hope Smith can come back from this in 12 months and get back to making runs. ( never to Captain or VC again. )
I wouldnt be fussed if Warner never plays for Australia again... reading between the lines I doubt he will while this current crop are still playing..I can see him selling out with a tell all book ( or paid interview ) and screwing everyone over. Hopefully not.
Bancroft... I feel a little bit for him... he may never get back and hasnt got millions in the bank like the other 2 have. ( but if u do the crime u do the time )
Hopefully we've set the bar and if anyone is stoopid enough to do it again they pay a similar price... I say hopefully because I doubt it.
Reckon Smith will get another go as he is a topliner...Warner is finished IMO and Bancroft will need a thousand runs a season to make it back given his stupidity....
Lehmann should have been sacked and I reckon the rest of the leadership group are lucky they are our best bowlers....
I guess the immediate concern is to limit the damage as much as possible whilst we get through this series in SA? Maybe then a more comprehensive investigation and review will be conducted by CA - I hope so. It sounds, from what I've heard from a few commentators that there are probably deeper problems within the squad and its culture. We'll see I guess.
Reckon Smith will get another go as he is a topliner...Warner is finished IMO and Bancroft will need a thousand runs a season to make it back given his stupidity....
Lehmann should have been sacked and I reckon the rest of the leadership group are lucky they are our best bowlers....
Maybe Smith and Warner manned up and decided to take all the heat ? Because its pretty hard to believe Starc Hazelwood etc didnt know what was going on...
We will have to wait till Warners interview or book to find out ????
Maybe Smith and Warner manned up and decided to take all the heat ? Because its pretty hard to believe Starc Hazelwood etc didnt know what was going on...
We will have to wait till Warners interview or book to find out ????
Given Starc and Hazlewood are the bowlers being helped in the main by the ball tampering I find it hard to believe they didnt know what was going on..think Michael Clarke suggested
the dressing rooms in SA are on the small side so there wouldnt be many secrets..
I'm sure Warner will do the book, 60 minutes interview and slam everything about South African cricket on his return.....maybe do all that after laying low for a while, he might wait until that IPL contract is safe...
Wonder if he had to give that LG TV back? ;)
Given Starc and Hazlewood are the bowlers being helped in the main by the ball tampering I find it hard to believe they didnt know what was going on..think Michael Clarke suggested
the dressing rooms in SA are on the small side so there wouldnt be many secrets..
I'm sure Warner will do the book, 60 minutes interview and slam everything about South African cricket on his return.....maybe do all that after laying low for a while, he might wait until that IPL contract is safe...
Wonder if he had to give that LG TV back? ;)
Not sure Starc has benefited too much in the last two tests.
3/300
Not sure Starc has benefited too much in the last two tests.
3/300
Had a big say in the first test win though.
So, from the investigation
"The investigation revealed that then vice-captain David Warner was behind the plan to alter the condition of the ball, enlisting opening batting partner Cameron Bancroft with carrying it out.
Steve Smith was aware of the plan, but failed to step in and prevent it from actually happening out in the middle of Newlands."
As Warnie has said, there can be no possible reason for Sutherland to not tell the absolute truth (from what they have anyway) in this, so as this sounds like a hastily cobbled together plan in the minutes leading up to the end of the lunch break it is entirely feasable the bowlers were not involved. Smith from the sounds of it, just did not put a stop to it ....and that is his fault & he's got to wear it.
12 month ban....CA pandering to the baying of the media again, just like when they dropped the charges against Harbajan for abusing Symo. Ask Ponting about CAs support for our cricketers someday & see what response you get.
I wonder if KP & Vaughan will be issuing an apology to Lehman now ?........
Mind you, Lehman still has to take responsibility for the culture that lead to this. I'd love Punta to take charge quite frankly. But I'm not sure he'd have the time to devote to the role full time. He'd certainly be a better option than Langer with respect to him as a player.
Had a big say in the first test win though.
Firstly, I doubt it offers any real benefit at all, morons doing moronic stuff. It's not like the Pakistanis using bottle tops to really gouge the ball surface. Even if they had 40, 60 or 80 grit they would be smoothing out the lumps and crevices that benefit the bowler. Mostly likely it was a piece of 200 grit they often use to clean bat faces.
Secondly, I doubt it was happening in the first test, if it was happening back then or in the Ashes there would now be video footage coming out of it all over the place. FFS, they are not brain surgeons, they used a bright yellow piece of sandpaper, they should have just stuck up a neon sign!
The sandpaper element raises a lot more questions... none of them good.
Had a big say in the first test win though.
He did or a dodgy ball that reversed?
Firstly, I doubt it offers any real benefit at all, morons doing moronic stuff. It's not like the Pakistanis using bottle tops to really gouge the ball surface. Even if they had 40, 60 or 80 grit they would be smoothing out the lumps and crevices that benefit the bowler. Mostly likely it was a piece of 200 grit they often use to clean bat faces.
Secondly, I doubt it was happening in the first test, if it was happening back then or in the Ashes there would now be video footage coming out of it all over the place. FFS, they are not brain surgeons, they used a bright yellow piece of sandpaper, they should have just stuck up a neon sign!
Isn’t reverse swing achieved by loading one side of the ball with moisture? Sandpapering the ball would make the surface more absorbent.
He did or a dodgy ball that reversed?
I reckon it was Mitch's good bowling JH. :)
Isn’t reverse swing achieved by loading one side of the ball with moisture? Sandpapering the ball would make the surface more absorbent.
Roughing one side can really make it reverse swing as can using sugary mints on the shiny side, like the Poms did in 2005.
Isn’t reverse swing achieved by loading one side of the ball with moisture? Sandpapering the ball would make the surface more absorbent.
I think it's easier to think about golf balls.
How do golf balls work, imagine if you created a golf ball with dimples on only one hemisphere?
The dimples on a golf ball work by trapping air in the pits which is dragged along with the ball acting like a low friction boundary layer between the ball and the air, an air lubricant. That is why a dimpled golf ball travels further and straighter, and why the golf authorities regulate the allowed patterns. At one stage manufacturers were proposing asymmetrical dimple patterns that allowed you to set up for fade or draw generated by the orientation of the dimples. They have been outlawed.
You can make any cricket ball swing as long as you create a physical asymmetry between the two hemispheres, you are effectively forming a wing with one side super-lubricated by the air boundary layer and the other exposed to friction. Then it becomes the bowlers skill to orientate the wing correctly relative to the direction of release.
There is no right or wrong way, if you know the basics you can create swing either towards or away from the polished side. Often when bowlers cannot get the ball to swing trying it backwards to the way they normally swing the ball will work.
The mechanism of conventional and reverse swing is exactly the same, it's just that the asymmetry is caused by different effects, as the ball gets older the effects of the seam orientation diminish and the asymmetry is caused by changes in the surface areas.
You are correct about the liquid, loading one side of the ball with lots of moisture also causes an asymmetry, but if you are looking for reverse swing this can act in opposition to the roughing effects. You do not want to increase the surface area of both sides at the same time. If you really want reverse swing you need to keep the polished side smooth and dry to minimise it's surface area, and the unpolished side to become as ragged as possible to maximise it's surface area. This effective difference in surface area of the two sides creates a wing. The 1/2 taped up tennis ball behavior, which is like a golf ball with dimples on only one hemisphere. Loading the polished side with too much moisture causes it to also expand, reducing the area difference between hemispheres.
As I posted earlier, any swing bowler who sees a fielder using saliva on the polished side should punch them in the face, if will effectively be reducing or delaying the amount of reverse swing you can get, it's a problem if the plan isn't well coordinated!
What the Aussies did has little benefit, the sort of trivial sanding they attempted would remove pits and peaks making the roughness similar without introducing a significant change in surface area.
I suppose if they did this enough in conjunction with saliva on the polished side they would eventually grind enough of the ball away get a asymmetry but it's a hell of a long way around a very simple problem! No wonder the bowlers were furious, what the trio had planned was probably counteracting what the bowlers had been taught to do, this would probably mean the reverse swing would start much later in the innings.
All this plays out when choosing a new ball. Batsmen / Captains will often search through a box of balls and find a ball that looks symmetrical about a proud seam, or a ball that appears slightly barbell shaped. That is a ball that is good for seaming or spin bowling but not for swing. The best ball for swing is the one that looks like it has one hemisphere larger than the other in addition to a proud seam, because that ball will most likely behave through all phases of the game with the desired characteristics.
I'm thinking Smith's crime was not controlling his vice-captain. I thinking more and more he's taken the fall for his players.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/australia/smiths-ball-tampering-reaction-revealed/news-story/1072aaacfd2e2530e278c168e2827a85
That might be correct Jimbo - ultimately I don’t think Smith is a bad egg... his punishment is massive, if he cops it on the chin he will be back in 12 months.
That might be correct Jimbo - ultimately I don’t think Smith is a bad egg... his punishment is massive, if he cops it on the chin he will be back in 12 months.
He should probably appeal, because the magnitude of the penalty is potentially excessive relative to say du Plessis.
I won't be surprised to find Warner appealing, and if he is successful Smith and Bancroft will automatically get a reduced penalty. But I think the lawyers would probably want Smith to appeal and let Warner and Bancroft be the silent beneficiaries. It won't be hard to legally paint Smith as the Captain who went down with the ship, and suggest the penalty is excessive!
Personally, I think the CA penalty is a bit like the way Carlton dealt with the Mitch Robinson, it isn't just about the act it is about the lie! Boof's recent media statements seem to make that clear, he has come across as genuinely offended, and that is consistent with the bowlers reaction over the last few days.
I suspect that when they were first planning this act if they had also made a consistent plan about what to do if caught they would probably be facing a lower penalty. Am I too kind?
btw., I think it feels about right, but then CheatsFC only got 12 months for pumping exotic foreign and possibly toxic substances into the veins of the Dirty 34 young men! It seems very disappointing to see Hird returning to the AFL so soon, will BumberT be next? Smith might we feel aggrieved!
We're a funny lot
With these type of issues there is always that an initial condemnation...as I said before it's part of our make-up to roast our own if we think they deserve it.
We hold them to a higher standard
But there is also a side of us that says...OK that's enough, they've been punished sufficiently.
I reckon we're just about to enter that phase and it wouldn't surprise in the next few days to see a shift in tone, at least amongst the public...not so sure about sponsors etc as they'll be more concerned about their brand
I reckon we're just about to enter that phase and it wouldn't surprise in the next few days to see a shift in tone, at least amongst the public...not so sure about sponsors etc as they'll be more concerned about their brand
Sponsors withdrawing their funding is just the result of the psychotic marketing people thinking,
"The affronted dollar, we can go after that dollar, it's a big dollar and largely untapped!"
We're a funny lot
With these type of issues there is always that an initial condemnation...as I said before it's part of our make-up to roast our own if we think they deserve it.
We hold them to a higher standard
But there is also a side of us that says...OK that's enough, they've been punished sufficiently.
I reckon we're just about to enter that phase and it wouldn't surprise in the next few days to see a shift in tone, at least amongst the public...not so sure about sponsors etc as they'll be more concerned about their brand
Smith’s press conference - that’ll do I reckon.
There was one rotten apple in that squad and I reckon he's been identified.
Correct Lods. Crime, punishment and time. I think that this has been a big wake up call for CA and all players. Smith will be forgiven (if he isn't already after the press conference). Haven't seen Bancroft's conference, but I believe he is very contrite as well. I haven't yet seen Warner's press conference either...
Without hijacking the thread, imagine if EFC had put their hands up properly...
Correct Lods. Crime, punishment and time. I think that this has been a big wake up call for CA and all players. Smith will be forgiven (if he isn't already after the press conference). Haven't seen Bancroft's conference, but I believe he is very contrite as well. I haven't yet seen Warner's press conference either...
Without hijacking the thread, imagine if EFC had put their hands up properly...
Bancroft was on the verge - I actually felt sorry for the young man but I'm a softy. I thought he spoke well.
The moral police won't be happy till one of them necks themself.
The moral police won't be happy till one of them necks themself.
That really is a stupid comment!
That really is a stupid comment!
Speaking of the moral police.
The moral police won't be happy till one of them necks themself.
They can sense blood in the water, their self-righteousness is gobsmacking!
This lot are being keelhauled, the media don't treat murders with this sort of contempt.
I'd be crying too if I lost a 2.4 million dollar IPL contract and had a to get a real job for 12 months..thought Smith had some genuine remorse but his record is smeared for life.
Bancroft..less impressed with his confession, no great loss to Aus cricket if he doesnt play test cricket again, one of the dumbest players I have seen..
Warner.....I guess he is getting some legal/PR advice and will give a more broad confession where he admits to minimal guilt and tries to save his 20/20 tournament career.
No real sympathy for any of them...they had it all and didnt appreciate the opportunities they have been given, others who appreciate it more deserve their place in the national team.....
RIP Australian Test Cricket
Boof has resigned
Boof has resigned
Excellent news, it was inevitable....looks like they gave him a soft exit...
Boof has resigned
Yes pretty much inevitable. There will be a complete culture change I would think - be interesting to see who gets brought in to implement that.
RIP Australian Test Cricket
We have good depth and a good domestic comp and I expect us to rebound ok...the Ashes might be a tough ask but we have to rebuild/regroup and it will take a couple of series.
The game overall will improve as I expect sledging and general behaviour from all teams to improve as they look at events that led to tapegate.....
I'd be crying too if I lost a 2.4 million dollar IPL contract and had a to get a real job for 12 months..thought Smith had some genuine remorse but his record is smeared for life.
Bancroft..less impressed with his confession, no great loss to Aus cricket if he doesnt play test cricket again, one of the dumbest players I have seen..
Warner.....I guess he is getting some legal/PR advice and will give a more broad confession where he admits to minimal guilt and tries to save his 20/20 tournament career.
No real sympathy for any of them...they had it all and didnt appreciate the opportunities they have been given, others who appreciate it more deserve their place in the national team.....
Sure EB1. Take the point but suggest an examination of the wider inputs and implications of the crisis Is worth a go. That a personal emotional breakdown is taking place on a backdrop of a national one speaks of something deeper than some guys getting more cash than most can hope for. Bet the ex-captain would swap it for a living wage not for him and family not to be in this position. Gideon Haigh might not be to all tastes but he was righteously furious with the CA for overseeing and contributing to it all and isn't the only one.
James Sutherland please put your hand up.
Grab your filthy pay out and fark off
James Sutherland please put your hand up.
Grab your filthy pay out and fark off
what's that saying, the rot starts at the top.....
Yep... Lehman came to his senses and fell on his sword. Sutherland needs to do the same.
Bancroft and Smith have apologised and said the right things.
Over to you Dave Warner...
Don't be surprised if Lehmann was given a fairly abrupt nudge!
James Sutherland please put your hand up.
Grab your filthy pay out and fark off
I agree there. Remember how weak at the knees he went during "Monkeygate" with the Indians when they toured here.
It's very rare for top level sports-people to be money focussed, the ones who are stand out like Tomic and they rarely if ever make it to the pinnacle of sport because they are focussed on the side benefits of being a top level sports-person.
Smith's grief is genuine, he lost the sport and career he loves.
Bancroft looked like he was about to throw-up at any moment, he should be worried he might never return to the Test team.
Warner is going to be a very interesting case, I suspect he might be the one to launch an appeal, he might be the one to show some indignation at the level of the penalty relative to earlier cases.
How ironic is it that the IPL drop players for cheating, it's like Hitler sacking a bloke for being a murderer, the whole IPL survives on spot betting and match fixing!
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/culture-of-winning-at-any-cost-has-polluted-junior-sport-20180328-p4z6nz.html
Maybe these "culture" problems start early?
Reminds me of when I used to watch my daughter play netball years ago now. Some of the over competitive comments from some of the parents were disgraceful and descended at times into personal insults of some of what were quite junior players. I must admit to being quite shocked and God knows what effect it had on the girls.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/culture-of-winning-at-any-cost-has-polluted-junior-sport-20180328-p4z6nz.html
Maybe these "culture" problems start early?
Reminds me of when I used to watch my daughter play netball years ago now. Some of the over competitive comments from some of the parents were disgraceful and descended at times into personal insults of some of what were quite junior players. I must admit to being quite shocked and God knows what effect it had on the girls.
They do Cookie2.
It's GF time for basketball at the moment, some of the reports coming out of under age games are to say the least a little disturbing and it's not just parents it officials.
I heard one recent report of an U12 GF boys basketball game were Refs technical fouled a team down to 2 players, then banned their coach for not finishing the game with only two players! FFS, it's an U12 game and kids were getting technical fouled for infringing fast breaks or obstructions! Apparently there were even U12 kids forced to leave the stadium after the 2nd technical foul, WTF! It's an U12 GF and the officials need to get over themselves!
It's very rare for top level sports-people to be money focussed, the ones who are stand out like Tomic and they rarely if ever make it to the pinnacle of sport because they are focussed on the side benefits of being a top level sports-person.
Smith's grief is genuine, he lost the sport and career he loves.
Bancroft looked like he was about to throw-up at any moment, he should be worried he might never return to the Test team.
Warner is going to be a very interesting case, I suspect he might be the one to launch an appeal, he might be the one to show some indignation at the level of the penalty relative to earlier cases.
How ironic is it that the IPL drop players for cheating, it's like Hitler sacking a bloke for being a murderer, the whole IPL survives on spot betting and match fixing!
Warner is the most hated cricketer in the world according to HD Ackerman who I watched on a news show last night which also featured Gideon Haigh and Lisa Forrest of swimming fame...
Think the ICC and CA will want Warner out of International cricket for good...
The WACA have said they will support Bancroft and I would expect NSW cricket to do the same with Smith........of the two I expect Smith to make a return to test cricket.....reckon he wont tour SA ever again though...
Warner is the most hated cricketer in the world according to HD Ackerman who I watched on a news show last night which also featured Gideon Haigh and Lisa Forrest of swimming fame...
Think the ICC and CA will want Warner out of International cricket for good...
The WACA have said they will support Bancroft and I would expect NSW cricket to do the same with Smith........of the two I expect Smith to make a return to test cricket.....reckon he wont tour SA ever again though...
I have severe doubts about the character of Warner. He seems to have been at the centre of far too many "incidents" and controversy. If CA are determined to change the face of Aussie cricket there would definitely be no place for him even if he promised to be a good boy - far too much history and bad feelings around the world.
I have severe doubts about the character of Warner. He seems to have been at the centre of far too many "incidents" and controversy. If CA are determined to change the face of Aussie cricket there would definitely be no place for him even if he promised to be a good boy - far too much history and bad feelings around the world.
Think CA, Lehmann etc have bred and fed an attack dog called David Warner but never really trained him to follow commands and now he has bitten his owners and been impounded.
Smith is a weak captain and was an ideal captain for Warner who could get his own way with him...Bancroft the new eager to please puppy....
CA let it all go while the team was successful but the Saffies give as good as they get and are happy to get in the gutter and slug it out...it got out of control, probably after Rabada got off Warner convinced Smith anything goes now and we had sandpaper/tape gate occur...
A stronger captain like Steve Waugh, Mark Taylor etc would have probably reigned in Warner. not started the chain of events in SA and backed themselves to win playing cricket not sledging or other silly games.
Warner is a knob but he has been allowed to be one and encouraged to a point IMO....
Warner is the most hated cricketer in the world according to HD Ackerman who I watched on a news show last night which also featured Gideon Haigh and Lisa Forrest of swimming fame...
Well Ackerman is a Saffie cricketer, did he have to say about du Plessis and Rabada?
CA let it all go while the team was successful but the Saffies give as good as they get and are happy to get in the gutter and slug it out...it got out of control, probably after Rabada got off Warner convinced Smith anything goes now and we had sandpaper/tape gate occur...
I think you underestimate the Saffies.
I've two friends both who have played rugby for SA, they live and breath sledging stuff far more than any Aussie I've ever talked to! When their sons played footy with my boy I've had to ask them, and their wives, for some restraint at junior matches. I put it down to growing up in the SA, a fairly harsh environment living in compounds behind razor ribbon, where a moments hesitation can cost your life!
I think it's quite wrong to claim they would only be retaliating to this stuff, or by inference that they have a better moral compass.
Please stop being sensible and go with the public lynching, all Australian cricketers are liars and cheats, South African cricketers are choir boys, butter wouldn't melt in their mouths
One amendment EB:
Warner is a complete knob but he has been allowed to be one and encouraged to a point IMO....
Burns, Renshaw, Handscomb and Sayers in. Good to see Sayers get a chance.
There is something refreshing about the team for this test, although I think we'll get pumped. My son (6) just asked where they got the sandpaper from - good question.
I have severe doubts about the character of Warner. He seems to have been at the centre of far too many "incidents" and controversy. If CA are determined to change the face of Aussie cricket there would definitely be no place for him even if he promised to be a good boy - far too much history and bad feelings around the world.
The funny thing is that Warner often comes across as a caring, sharing kind of bloke :-\ However, his behaviour during (and before) cricket games can be intolerable and embarrassing.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say he should never play cricket for Australia again but, if he did, he would have to comply with a suitable code of conduct.
I watched Smith’s press conference and thought it was one of the most harrowing things I’ve seen on TV. I think that his punishment is appropriate but he should be left alone now.
It seems tha ACA are fired up to appeal the penalties but I think that they should just let things ride.
The funny thing is that Warner often comes across as a caring, sharing kind of bloke :-\ However, his behaviour during (and before) cricket games can be intolerable and embarrassing.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say he should never play cricket for Australia again but, if he did, he would have to comply with a suitable code of conduct.
I watched Smith’s press conference and thought it was one of the most harrowing things I’ve seen on TV. I think that his punishment is appropriate but he should be left alone now.
It seems tha ACA are fired up to appeal the penalties but I think that they should just let things ride.
I was mortified watching Smith tbh. It was absolutely gut wrenching. I agree that he should be left alone with his loved ones and hopefully he will eventually recover. The whole spectacle and media coverage is bordering on voyeurism - wtf has got into us?
Well Ackerman is a Saffie cricketer, did he have to say about du Plessis and Rabada?
I think you underestimate the Saffies.
I've two friends both who have played rugby for SA, they live and breath sledging stuff far more than any Aussie I've ever talked to! When their sons played footy with my boy I've had to ask them, and their wives, for some restraint at junior matches. I put it down to growing up in the SA, a fairly harsh environment living in compounds behind razor ribbon, where a moments hesitation can cost your life!
I think it's quite wrong to claim they would only be retaliating to this stuff, or by inference that they have a better moral compass.
Think Warner has Faf and Rabada covered in terms of being disliked, not sure you would get too many arguments about a more hated player..Kohli would be in 2nd place.
I dont underestimate the Saffies, they have been hard nosed competitors since Aubrey Faulkner peeled off 204 at the MCG, Warner made it clear the gloves were off before he landed in SA and that he was going to
sledge them silly, think I heard Aaron Finch on MMM say that team meetings in the Aus dressing room included who to sledge, what to say etc, doesnt mean SA dont do same but my point is that we go in every test with sledging as a tactic and have to expect one day that we will get it back with interest. For sure the Saffies dish it out too and the whole country got onboard with the Sonny Bill Williams masks but it doesnt seem to matter where you look...David Warner is in the middle of most of the action.
The funny thing is that Warner often comes across as a caring, sharing kind of bloke :-\ However, his behaviour during (and before) cricket games can be intolerable and embarrassing.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say he should never play cricket for Australia again but, if he did, he would have to comply with a suitable code of conduct.
I watched Smith’s press conference and thought it was one of the most harrowing things I’ve seen on TV. I think that his punishment is appropriate but he should be left alone now.
It seems tha ACA are fired up to appeal the penalties but I think that they should just let things ride.
Agree. Smith has shown deep and authentic remorse for what he has done and has taken full responsibility and has made himself totally accountable. Aussies are by nature very forgiving when the apology is fair dinkum. Bancroft will be seen as a foolish victim who will hopefully learn something from all of this, but will also be fine.
Warner? Mmm. Let's see what he has to say.
Good job today fellas, late reward for a lot of grind. Played in the right spirit and some good catching.
Lyon will be a real handful as this game progresses and pleased to see Sayers have an impact. Cummins shows real spirit, his effort balls are top notch.
Good job today fellas, late reward for a lot of grind. Played in the right spirit and some good catching.
Lyon will be a real handful as this game progresses and pleased to see Sayers have an impact. Cummins shows real spirit, his effort balls are top notch.
Yep..Paine's gesture to shake hand pre game was excellent and Markram received generous applause for his fine innings......he has been a surprise packet and probably their batting with ABDV shoring up the middle order had been more solid..
Saffies have the runs on the board and a dangerous player in Dekock still at the crease so I would expect them to rack up 400 plus which will make its hard to win the game but I thought
Cummins plugged away on a good wicket, Sayers is handy and will be good in England IMO...
Handscomb improves our catching 100%, lets hope he can make some runs......
Starc and Hazelwood have been poor sine the 1st Test (noting Starc not playing at Wanderers).
If either had bowled even at an average lrvel for their standards, things would have been different.
have to ask why?
Yep..Paine's gesture to shake hand pre game was excellent
In is first few minutes he's shown himself to be 300% smarter than Smith, Smith is a great batsmen but a crap captain.
Paine's motives won't be as magnanimous as they seem superficially, it one simple act he's taken the initiative off the Saffies, forced them to tow the line and removed their oxygen.
It doesn't mean he won't be in their ear from behind the stumps, it just means it won't be low brow! You can do as much damage to an opponent by pumping up their tyres and commenting quietly about their technique as you can by trying to aggressively distract or deflate them, same outcome but the method is 180 degrees away from Warner. So much smarter!
Towards the end of my cricket career I found that I could get the batsmen to hit the ball in preferred zones just by making sure they clearly overheard my instructions to the field. There was nothing they can do about it, you could analyse their batting technique and have them playing their weakest shots in just a few overs by the power of indirect suggestions and field manipulation. At test level Taylor was the best I have seen at manipulating the field to get the batsmen playing the way he wanted.
Smith as Captain by comparison was a sledge hammer, banging away at the same spot relentlessly often with little effect.
Just watched Warner's apology. No ducking and weaving, no excuses, genuine remorse and accountability and awareness as to the hurt he has caused a great number of people.
We all make mistakes and are so different but for me when folks are genuinely remorseful and accountable after having FdUp badly, the condemnation stops then and the healing and 'making good' begins.
Starc and Hazelwood have been poor sine the 1st Test (noting Starc not playing at Wanderers).
If either had bowled even at an average lrvel for their standards, things would have been different.
have to ask why?
Starc obviously had issues with the stress fracture, Hazelwood has been average. Cummins has easily been our best bowler.
We all make mistakes and are so different but for me when folks are genuinely remorseful and accountable after having FdUp badly, the condemnation stops then and the healing and 'making good' begins.
Yes, he must have learnt this off CheatsFC! ;D
Yes, he must have learnt this off CheatsFC! ;D
I don't recall one individual from the Cheats admitting fault/showing remorse & accountability. Very different.
I don't recall one individual from the Cheats admitting fault/showing remorse & accountability. Very different.
Our 1st Qtr against the Suns has made your sarcasm detector dysfunctional.
Just watched Warner's apology. No ducking and weaving, no excuses, genuine remorse and accountability and awareness as to the hurt he has caused a great number of people.
We all make mistakes and are so different but for me when folks are genuinely remorseful and accountable after having FdUp badly, the condemnation stops then and the healing and 'making good' begins.
I must have been watching a different press conference.
Just watched Warner's apology. No ducking and weaving, no excuses, genuine remorse and accountability and awareness as to the hurt he has caused a great number of people.
We all make mistakes and are so different but for me when folks are genuinely remorseful and accountable after having FdUp badly, the condemnation stops then and the healing and 'making good' begins.
Scripted and fake as was Smiths.
Scripted and fake as was Smiths.
I'm inclined to agree :
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/the-email-that-shows-umpires-had-raised-concerns-about-smith-and-warner-before-20180329-p4z6xh.html
If Smith was acting he scoop the Oscar's. Looked pretty real to me.
If Smith was acting he scoop the Oscar's. Looked pretty real to me.
X2
If Smith was acting he scoop the Oscar's. Looked pretty real to me.
We've 22 blokes who'll go close to an Oscar today, for pretending to be AFL players.
They were acting at a B grade level.... At best.
And so the script plays out, we'll lose this Test by an innings and plenty, and then lose our next few Tests as well, and then all of the holier-than-thou media types will call for players to be sacked for playing without any passion....
If Smith was acting he scoop the Oscar's. Looked pretty real to me.
Smith convinced me he was genuine, Warner was more scripted and looked like a PR team had some input, Bancroft was at least truthful about his part.
Only Smith will make it back IMO but I reckon its going to be a hard slog....
Smith convinced me he was genuine, Warner was more scripted and looked like a PR team had some input, Bancroft was at least truthful about his part.
Only Smith will make it back IMO but I reckon its going to be a hard slog....
Warner might've known more but couldn't say. Imagine the overreaction in the media if he said everyone knew and were involved. I'm happy he didn't say anything there just in case they were all involved.
9 for 488...only they can win it now, so we need some rain and a couple of big innings to draw the game..
At least the Bombers lost!
Wow, that's terrible (by us) after the stumps scoreline...
9 for 488...only they can win it now, so we need some rain and a couple of big innings to draw the game..
The Saffies have collapsed; all out for 488 ;)
I reckon we needed Maxwell in the 11. A couple of his mercurial efforts could have lifted the team out of the doldrums.
Hazelwood 0-86.
poor
The Saffies have collapsed; all out for 488 ;)
I reckon we needed Maxwell in the 11. A couple of his mercurial efforts could have lifted the team out of the doldrums.
I guess M. Marsh has the allrounders spot at No 6 sewn up for a while but yep I agree about Maxwell in a touring party for some X factor......
3-38....
Hazelwood 0-86.
poor
Given us nothing all series, economical but not threatening which I find strange given Rabada has got so much movement in the air and off the wicket.
Probably the menacing bounce of Aus wickets isnt there in SA and I think he misses that, Markram in particular has played him well, impressive player that bloke, cool head and
for a newbie seems to have soaked up the pressure....having AB in the middle order also gives them some solidarity. I thought their batting was their weak point but they have seen off our attack and even their tail has spanked our bowlers....
Could be over by stumps, CA is a house of cards!
At the moment all the selections dilemmas (and nightmares) have come to pass. Neither of the Marsh brothers has done much to solidify their futures. Both have been ordinary (although Mitch did have his moments in the 1st test). Khawaja was decent this time, but he has had only 2 decent innings. Our 3 inclusions all failed. Up until now the opening partnership was our best, but this time ...
Our bowlers have not done what we would hope. Cummins has got wickets consistently, but Hazelwood has struggled and Starc hasn't really been fit. Lyon started well enough, but that was that.
I am disappointed. There were 2 ways for a our players to react, and we done the worse of them. We are a rabble now and will be until we can regroup and get our act together.
And meanwhile, sponsors disappear. Sutherland looks to be on shaky ground and this saga seems (at least on the surface) to be approaching the Packer - Establishment 70s fight in terms of impact on the game.
What is guaranteed is that new caps will be handed out to those maybe not deserving of the reward.
Very fragile at the minute
It's no different to football, there is no rule that states nepotism builds a better team, but there is a rule that says nepotism keeps the money in the family.
That is what it is about, money not professionalism.
Given us nothing all series, economical but not threatening which I find strange given Rabada has got so much movement in the air and off the wicket.
Probably the menacing bounce of Aus wickets isnt there in SA and I think he misses that, Markram in particular has played him well, impressive player that bloke, cool head and
for a newbie seems to have soaked up the pressure....having AB in the middle order also gives them some solidarity. I thought their batting was their weak point but they have seen off our attack and even their tail has spanked our bowlers....
Cummins has been outstanding but the others, outside of Starc's First Test, has been really crap.
Hazelwood is not a swing or cutter bowler, he isn't suited to the conditions SA is providing, there isn't much for seamers and if it does move it's fairly benign and predictable.
Really this series should have been a nil all draw, our batting and the Saffies batting has been rubbish in conditions that at times have been almost idyllic, at least equal to as good as you are likely to get them over there!
Time Paine might not have made big runs but has shown more than a little G and D thus tour. Lot of red inks, solid keeping. Leading by example.
Gutsy effort here from a man with a broken thumb
Sure is .... gets a few points for that alone
If that doesn't kick start a few of the Muppet's in that dressing room, nothing will.
Bloody good cricketer that Paine lad, blasted finger injuries.
Bit of ticker from the new Captain and Cummins....
the top order might need to reflect a bit?
You would think Handscomb will have to keep, if we aren't made to follow on, it could be the making of him!
Not too hard to have your eye in for batting if you've been behind the stumps for 8hrs.
How Hazlewood gets the new ball ahead of Cummins is one of life's great mysteries. The word innocuous spings to mind....
FMD Paine keeping with a broken thumb, bet he wasn't crying about it before he went on the ground!
In times like these you generally find outa bit about players.
The Marsh boys might want to get involved at some point
Mitch Marsh... Watson mark 2. Doesnt bowl because he gets injured all the time. Hence we have 4 flogged front line bowlers with no support.
Hazelwood might like to take a wicket before Christmas too. :o
Hazelwood might like to take a wicket before Christmas too. :o
Before this test he had 15 wickets for 4 tests this year.
34 in 2017.
I wouldn’t say he is out major issue.
I just don’t get why Cummins doesn’t open with Hazlewood and Starc bowls 1st change.
Before this test he had 15 wickets for 4 tests this year.
34 in 2017.
I wouldn’t say he is out major issue.
I just don’t get why Cummins doesn’t open with Hazlewood and Starc bowls 1st change.
Saffies have found a star player in Markram and Elgar is underated, we probably under estimated them as a batting unit....the former will probably be a future Saffie captain...
Saffies are also a better fielding team IMO...
Having had a good look at Sayers now,I cannot understand why he doesn't bowl stump to stump at that pace, make sure he gets the ball in the channel, and, them moves it both ways. His wrist position at that pace is key for him. I think he could also keep his arm action a little higher.
For those saying he isn't quick enough, I agree, however Philander is only fractionally faster. If we can persist with him and get those things right, he will be an effective all day bowler who can get wickets in non bowler friendly conditions, or, keep it tight which builds pressure. Personally, I think he will have to develop his batting if he is going to get a run in this team - Ala Philander.
Having had a good look at Sayers now,I cannot understand why he doesn't bowl stump to stump at that pace, make sure he gets the ball in the channel, and, them moves it both ways. His wrist position at that pace is key for him. I think he could also keep his arm action a little higher.
For those saying he isn't quick enough, I agree, however Philander is only fractionally faster. If we can persist with him and get those things right, he will be an effective all day bowler who can get wickets in non bowler friendly conditions, or, keep it tight which builds pressure. Personally, I think he will have to develop his batting if he is going to get a run in this team - Ala Philander.
Sayers will bowl well in England IMO...
Saffies have found a star player in Markram and Elgar is underated, we probably under estimated them as a batting unit....the former will probably be a future Saffie captain...
Saffies are also a better fielding team IMO...
I think also we shouldn't overlook that Hazelwood, Starc and even Lyon have been non events this Series....for whatever reason.
Du Plessis shows his true colours.... Bats on to a lead of 600+ when half that required against a beaten enemy. Pulled the pin to prevent Cummins getting a historic milestone (10 wickets and half century).
Wasn't enough for them to win, they needed to humiliate the vanquished and exorcise their demons.
This is what our mob were up against, but apparently the Australian cricket side are all cheats and pricks.
Gentleman's game my bum, neither side played the game in that spirit this tour. Everyone I knew was so looking forward to this tour, what a let down, and test cricket died a bit more instead of adding to its rich history.
Gees, batting out a draw tommorrow - or rain - wouldnt that be be a small victory?
Du Plessis shows his true colours.... Bats on to a lead of 600+ when half that required against a beaten enemy. Pulled the pin to prevent Cummins getting a historic milestone (10 wickets and half century).
Wasn't enough for them to win, they needed to humiliate the vanquished and exorcise their demons.
This is what our mob were up against, but apparently the Australian cricket side are all cheats and pricks.
Gentleman's game my bum, neither side played the game in that spirit this tour. Everyone I knew was so looking forward to this tour, what a let down, and test cricket died a bit more instead of adding to its rich history.
Gees, batting out a draw tommorrow - or rain - wouldnt that be be a small victory?
Agreed Prof, this lot started their 2nd Innings with a lead north of 250 runs, then spent most of the next day batting at below a RR of 3. If you want to know why Test Cricket is rumored to be dying there is your prime example!
Unlike many I didn't expect any different, the Saffies have been doing it for a decade and claiming he spoils while lots of other countries try to lift the image of the game!
No one has suggested that SA are pure. Yes, they could have declared earlier. There is no obligation to help the opposition achieve s milestone. There is no obligation to give the opposition a chance to win. All teams do what SA do. Their run rate was 3.27 in the second innings, which isn't bad for them and there was a lot of time left in the test.
Nothing wrong with what they did. We have been doing it for years.
If this was a footy match and we were 10 goals up against the Bombers who were down to 17 players due to injuries at the start of the last quarter, would you want to ease up.? What would be an acceptable result that is fair?
Evidence of their cheating this series is?
Evidence of their cheating this series is?
Cheating is one thing, stewardship of the game another.
On the cheating, just as being crap or failing at cheating doesn't mean you are innocent, see CheatsFC for the gold standard of that example, being good at it isn't a get out of gaol free pass either!
I have great respect for Kerry Packer, he saw the game he loved dying and did something about it. SA represent the old ways, they do not care about the sport from a general public perspective, to them it's an elite activity only the rich and privileged should participate in on grounds built and subsidised by the little folk!
No one has suggested that SA are pure. Yes, they could have declared earlier. There is no obligation to help the opposition achieve s milestone. There is no obligation to give the opposition a chance to win. All teams do what SA do. Their run rate was 3.27 in the second innings, which isn't bad for them and there was a lot of time left in the test.
Nothing wrong with what they did. We have been doing it for years.
If this was a footy match and we were 10 goals up against the Bombers who were down to 17 players due to injuries at the start of the last quarter, would you want to ease up.? What would be an acceptable result that is fair?
Evidence of their cheating this series is?
I agree. Some people have massive victim mentalities that they take to every sport. The Australian Cricket team gets unfair treatment from the ICC and the cricket world generally - other teams get preferential treatment. Carlton gets unfair treatment from the AFL, the media, and the footy world generally - other teams gets preferential treatment.
I really wonder why some people even bother following sport.
Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking on the long drive home from Docklands on Saturday.....
Evidence of collusion? Wangling things to get Rabada's ban overturned. Not cheating but clearly part of "do anything to win" mentality.
Apparently using sugar-laced saliva for "minor ball polishing" is different to scuffing the ball with sandpaper.
I'll call it what it was Faf....it was blatant cheating.
Evidence of collusion? Wangling things to get Rabada's ban overturned. Not cheating but clearly part of "do anything to win" mentality.
Apparently using sugar-laced saliva for "minor ball polishing" is different to scuffing the ball with sandpaper.
I'll call it what it was Faf....it was blatant cheating.
I cannot call us 'pure': we have been found guilty of cheating. However, we are not the only team with a 'win at all costs' mentality. The West Indies in their heyday were not known for their sportsmanship. However, that is just the tip of the iceberg. Arjuna Ranatunga, when captain of Sri Lanka, was so corrupt that it wasn't funny. It is his fault that runners are no longer used in test cricket. He would claim to be injured when his only problem was an excess of good Sri Lankan curry. His excesses on the field and his incredible lack of sportsmanship were legendary. India under their present leadership do not stretch boundaries: they shatter them. They will do anything to win. Then we have South Africa. Faf de Plessis has been sanctioned for ball tampering. Nor has he been alone.
World cricket has been more than infected by the 'win at all costs' mentality. It has been so for a long time. Australia may have pushed things, but we are not alone. But we are the only ones to react so savagely to those who have been caught.
In some ways I am glad of that. It shows that there is something in Australian cricket still has something behind it other than just 'win'.
I am not against winning: quite the contrary. I love winning and I have experienced relatively little in recent times. But there are boundaries. Am I part of an extinct generation? I hope not.
I don't know if cricket will take the lesson here to heart, even if Cricket Australia does. I will look on with hope, but with very low expectations.
Evidence of collusion? Wangling things to get Rabada's ban overturned. Not cheating but clearly part of "do anything to win" mentality.
Apparently using sugar-laced saliva for "minor ball polishing" is different to scuffing the ball with sandpaper.
I'll call it what it was Faf....it was blatant cheating.
Tha Rabada case was disgraceful, contact with opposing players should be an automatic out of the next game, how they argued that on some new camera angle basis is beyond me.....
The mints/sugar based lollies etc has been around for a long while, its cheating for sure but all the countries do it......Saffies, English, Pakis....the umps tend to let it go unless in Faf's case he was sticking his fingers down his throat and making it so obvious. The other scam was the sunscreen, lipbarm plastered on the face and used to shine the ball.....cheating again but hard to police and hard to ban....
The Sandpaper was equivalent to taking an angle grinder out there for the bowling team to use.....crickets a funny game in that you can cheat if its not too obvious but as soon as it becomes obvious you are the worst in the world...our blokes made the mistake of not using normal ball tampering methods and went for something a bit too exotic..
The vision of Bancroft in the dressing room throwing copious amounts of sugar in his pocket I think from a previous test also made him a good camera target.....
Yes, stewardshop of the game is important - very important. That's why we have three players that aren't playing for Australia for at least 9 months.
Yep, the Rabada exoneration was bad. With the cricket balls, the current set up obviously isn't working as there is a weak deterrent. ICC either have to come down on everyone like a ton of bricks to stamp it out, or have an "anything goes" policy with the cricket balls.
Stamping it out should be easy. The umpires get the ball at the start of the over, check its condition. At the end of the over they get it back, pass it to the other umpire, who gives it to the next bowler. That way any change of condition of the ball is obvious and easily monitored. A extreme change in condition, they replace the ball. The whole team gets a 50% fine, the captain 75%. Do it twice in a test and there are suspensions to the team. No ifs, no buts.
All over in SA, Philander took 6-3 today and I think our blokes will be glad to be put out of their misery.....
Rumours that Warner has agreed to a tell all one million dollar interview.....
Straight to the airport boys, quick smart & get the hell outta there O0
Quality twisting of the knife by the SACA, giving Rabada man of the series. They lead every other cricket board in the world giggling and sniggering at our board's knee jerk overreaction to ball tampering, and they want us to know it
Agreed Prof, this lot started their 2nd Innings with a lead north of 250 runs, then spent most of the next day batting at below a RR of 3. If you want to know why Test Cricket is rumored to be dying there is your prime example!
Unlike many I didn't expect any different, the Saffies have been doing it for a decade and claiming he spoils while lots of other countries try to lift the image of the game!
Thing is they are 2-1 up in the last Test. They're job to win the series, not necessarily the Test, which a draw would do, so they bat us right out of the game so we have absolutely no hope of tying the series. That's there only responsibility. It's not their job to declare, it's our job to bowl them out.
Quality twisting of the knife by the SACA, giving Rabada man of the series. They lead every other cricket board in the world giggling and sniggering at our board's knee jerk overreaction to ball tampering, and they want us to know it
I thought Markram deserved it, blunted our very good attack and played cricket in a good spirit, Rabada deserved a suspension not a reward....the ICC should have suggested he wasnt suitable given his behaviour.
Freddy Flintoff, more man than all the finger-pointers combined?
Freddy Flintoff, more man than all the finger-pointers combined?
yep. A (strange) voice of reason...
Langar or Gillespie?.......Langar looks like he is going to get the job and I have no doubt its a player inspired choice as much as anything.
I agree with Ian Chappell and would prefer Gillespie who has had great success in England with Yorkshire and appears a more rounded individual and less inclined to play favorites and also has a world view on the game.
Langar IMO is more of the same as we got with Lehmann, will be popular with the players and will look after the main core group but wont be so keen to make major changes or look to new talent especially if its from outside WA and more specifically the Perth Scorchers..
Langar or Gillespie?.......Langar looks like he is going to get the job and I have no doubt its a player inspired choice as much as anything.
I agree with Ian Chappell and would prefer Gillespie who has had great success in England with Yorkshire and appears a more rounded individual and less inclined to play favorites and also has a world view on the game.
Langar IMO is more of the same as we got with Lehmann, will be popular with the players and will look after the main core group but wont be so keen to make major changes or look to new talent especially if its from outside WA and more specifically the Perth Scorchers..
It should be Gillespie by some margin, imho.
Langer is a little too close to the establishment and is getting favors at the selection table that make him look better than he really is! If Langer gets the job the Marsh boys will be welded into the team!
The warning signs are things like Langer gets key players released from national duty for local games, but his opposition coach/team don't get the same treatment even if their players sit around as extras on the big stage.
So I suspect it should be Gillespie, but will most likely be Langer.
Langer would be more of the same old same old, I think they will sense the winds of change and pick Gillespie, I really hope they do
Gillespie by a wide margin. Langer nowhere near it.
His "aw shucks" humility when he played was painful to watch. Fake.
Another international team done for ball tampering. Seems like they never learn. Now for The year long bans and appropriate action.
Time to pad up Sutherland....
Geez Prof - I really hope that it's the case, but don't think it will be.
The ICC penalties for ball tampering seem to be about 1 match. Our cricket admin gave the rest of the penalty, partly because of how badly it was all done and handled.
This also gave the opportunity to work out how we wanted to play cricket - what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. This will take some time to work out. I am not sure that other countries want to do this.
Another international team done for ball tampering. Seems like they never learn. Now for The year long bans and appropriate action.
Time to pad up Sutherland....
Ha, yeah I saw that......interesting the different reactions.
Aust - ball wasn't altered enough to be even changed by the umpires & all hell breaks loose, players accept full responsibility & cop their whack.
Sri Lanka - ball was altered enough so that it was changed by the umpires & Sri Lankans shut themselves up in the changerooms sooking & refuse to come out & play........
Bet you anything that nothing will happen to any of their players.
I want to see Sutherland grow a pair and issue a statement in the penalties are soft. I thought they ICC and cricket community were serious about stamping out this nonsense.
One inviolable right withdrawn from some but for others?
Let it pass. Cheap sub continent and manufactured achievements amount to nothing. I don't subscribe to playing with outright cheats
Because of our ridiculous knee jerk overrreaction we can't say anything, and we won't
Geez !
Poms are on track to score 400 !! ????
2-253 of 30 overs if you don’t mind...
Their (England) biggest ODI win and our biggest loss. That is probably a record that will never be beaten.
Long way back
Their (England) biggest ODI win and our biggest loss. That is probably a record that will never be beaten.
Long way back
Nah, we’ve got the moral high ground ????????
Capitulated to a pair of mediocre spinners. Pathetic all round.
Why Finch isn't opening.
With the two NSWelshman out the Aussie Cricket Cartel has cracked the craps, packed up it's bat and left the building!
What is that coaching appointment looking like now, jobs for the boys!