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Topic: That Saad Lad (Read 19489 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #15 –
He should incur a penalty sure, but if your gonna have zero tolerance with penalty severity such as this in instances such as this (a year and half pushing on 2 and soon to be 4 of an athletes life), then sooner or later all stakeholders who stand to gain should be made to assume a more realistic level of responsibility to better inform. It's simply not realistic to leave this at the feet of the athlete. 

Manufactures, suppliers and retailers should have a duty to do more than simply bury the name of a substance in the ingredients list. Suppliers who should be reasonably aware of the possibility that sports persons in competition may be purchasing their product should have a duty to better inform that the product has the potential to wipe a career. Perhaps develop a labeling system  big bold and ugly. A better job needs to be done to flush out intent.

This rule is a rule is rule is rule bullshiiit simply doesn't sit well with me. If big sister is going to remain relevant, then regulators should either impose more realistic spread of responsibility, or the power freak should impose penalties accordingly.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #16 –
Sorry DU but for me it's very simple - do the crime do the time, end of story.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #17 –
Yep.  Remember, it's not just about being fair to the athlete who dopes (intentionally or otherwise) - it's also about being fair to the athletes who don't.  Raelene Boyle should have won a Gold Medal but being beaten by an East German woman who was doped up to the eye balls.  Even if guys like Lance Armstrong are eventually kicked out of sport, there are many clean athletes who will never make a name for themselves because they haven't enjoyed the winning edge the drugs gave their dirty rivals. 

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Gozza on
Bombers will be off scot free. No question about it.

They've already been sanctioned by the AFL though Gozzinho, they missed finals and draft picks for 2 years as well as a huge fine, the largest punishment ever handed out to a club. Some that can't accept being wrong claim that they weren't punished but we know that's not you. It now comes down to whether ASADA also choose to sanction them I guess. I agree there's no guarantee but would be sweet if it happened!
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #20 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
- do the crime do the time, end of story.

That's what the English said when they shipped people of to a foreign penal colony for stealing loaves of bread. Do the crime do the time, a rule is rule..
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #21 –
It's also what the Victorian Supreme Court said to Julian Knight after the Hoddle Street massacre.  Struggling to see the point you're trying to make.  Arguing the toss on anecdotal examples of sentencing from the past is just a nonsense. 

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #22 –
Bloke drinks a protein shake and misses 18 months. Bloke goes on national television and admits to receiving illegal substances several times over and gets hailed as a martyr. 

The world is farked.

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Gozza on
Bloke drinks a protein shake and misses 18 months. Bloke goes on national television and admits to receiving illegal substances several times over and gets hailed as a martyr. 

The world is farked.

AFL logic.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Mav on
It's also what the Victorian Supreme Court said to Julian Knight after the Hoddle Street massacre.  Struggling to see the point you're trying to make.  Arguing the toss on anecdotal examples of sentencing from the past is just a nonsense.

Proportionality Mav, we re discussing proportionality. I'm certain that in its original finding, the Supreme Court considered the circumstances before handing down its penalty. What's nonsense is that even criminal sentencing has a greater option of applicable penalties than an anti doping code. The example I provided was chosen so as to highlight proportionality. The example you responded with just reinforces the need for proportionality, both in terms of responsibility and in penalty.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #25 –
Quote from: denimundies on
Quote from: cookie2 on
- do the crime do the time, end of story.

That's what the English said when they shipped people of to a foreign penal colony for stealing loaves of bread. Do the crime do the time, a rule is rule..

And look - it led to Australia being settled - good or bad?  ;)
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #26 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
Quote from: denimundies on
Quote from: cookie2 on
- do the crime do the time, end of story.

That's what the English said when they shipped people of to a foreign penal colony for stealing loaves of bread. Do the crime do the time, a rule is rule..

And look - it led to Australia being settled - good or bad?  ;)

Lol....it's hard to argue against that...
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #27 –
Quote from: Mav on
It's also what the Victorian Supreme Court said to Julian Knight after the Hoddle Street massacre.  Struggling to see the point you're trying to make.  Arguing the toss on anecdotal examples of sentencing from the past is just a nonsense.

I do understand your point Mav...I just think this zero tolerance policy needs to be backed by sharing of  responsibility to parties other than just the athlete.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #28 –
Quote from: denimundies on
Quote from: Mav on
It's also what the Victorian Supreme Court said to Julian Knight after the Hoddle Street massacre.  Struggling to see the point you're trying to make.  Arguing the toss on anecdotal examples of sentencing from the past is just a nonsense.

Proportionality Mav, we re discussing proportionality. I'm certain that in its original finding, the Supreme Court considered the circumstances before handing down its penalty. What's nonsense is that even criminal sentencing has a greater option of applicable penalties than an anti doping code. The example I provided was chosen so as to highlight proportionality. The example you responded with just reinforces the need for proportionality, both in terms of responsibility and in penalty.
Despite the fact that murder sentences are life?

What about drink-driving disqualifications?  If you go to a party and drive the following day thinking that you're well under 0.05%, surely ignorance will protect you from the mandatory disqualifications?  Say a family emergency arises one night when you've drunk a few heavies and you drive to help out, the court would take that into consideration and allow you to keep your licence (and perhaps your job as well)?  Oh dear, don't tell me proportionality gives way to deterrence and keeping the competition (or in this case the roads) safe for the non-offenders out there?

There IS a safety valve - if you have no (substantial) fault or negligence.  Which imposes the obligation on athletes to make sure they stay within the rules rather than pleading ignorance afterwards perhaps to no effect. 

You're failing to grasp the notion that the WADA Code is there to protect the clean athletes - the ones who do make sure they steer away from PEDs.  Once you allow the system to become a farce by allowing "the dog ate my homework" excuses, there's really no reason that athletes would avoid PEDs. 

So was Saad really an unfortunate victim in this case?  Or were the victims the team mates he beat out at selection and the defenders he beat whose careers may have taken a turn for the worse as a result?  The label boasted that the drink would ""increase energy levels, endurance, focus and enhance drive & muscular pumps".  Each serving contained 32mgs of a banned stimulant, Methyl Synepherine.  Didn't he wonder how the drink could do those things?

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #29 –
Quote
Both world-class Jamaican and American sprinters have been using a banned drug called oxilofrine (also known as methylsynephrine, hydroxyephrine, oxyephrine, and 4-HMP) to boost their performance and smash records. Find out why these sprinters are breaking all of the rules to use oxilofrine and how it works.

A short while back, I saw an interesting piece of news regarding world-class Jamaican sprinters who were busted for doping. I also happened to see that a famous American sprinter named Tyson Gay was caught doping around the same time. After glancing at the headlines, I thought to myself, “More stories about athletes getting busted for steroids.” Despite my indifference to a subject that I’d read about so many times before, I checked out the stories anyways.

The guilty parties involved were Jamaica’s Asafa Powell and Sherone Simpson. Powell held the 100-meter world record from 2005-08 with a time of 9.74 seconds. Thanks to his blazing speed, he won a 4x100m relay gold medal at the 2008 Summer Olympics.

Powell’s female Jamaican teammate, Simpson, won a 4x100m gold medal at the 2004 Olympics along with 100-meter and 4x100m silver medals at the 2012 Olympics. As for Gay, his 100-meter time of 9.69 seconds is the second fastest in history, behind Usain Bolt (9.58).

Upon researching these sprinters’ accomplishments, my next thought was to find out what steroid they were busted for. But to my surprise, they weren’t caught using steroids at all. Instead, Gay, Powell and Simpson all tested positive for an amphetamine called oxilofrine.

...

Well another noteworthy effect of oxilofrine is that it increases the body’s production of adrenaline. And with increased adrenaline comes more exercise endurance, improved focus, better oxygenation of the blood, a faster heart rate, and increased alertness. Of these effects, the extra endurance and improved blood oxygenation would definitely give sprinters a boost during their training.

Because of all the performance-enhancing benefits of oxilofrine, it’s been banned by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA). And those caught using this amphetamine face up to a two-year ban from sanctioned track & field competitions. But even with these potential punishments, I guarantee you that plenty of athletes are still using this drug.
http://bodybuilding.elitefitness.com/oxilofrine-methyl-synephrine-doping
Oxilofrine is also known as Methyl Synepehrine.