Carlton Supporters Club

Sunday, 10 March @ 15:20
Etihad Stadium (home game)

If ANZAC day tells us lest we forget, we best treat this week as best we forget and quickly move focus to the next game. Brisbane has finished off the careers of a few Carlton coaches, so looms as a nail in the coffin game - needless to say - a must win game.

I imagine Hendo and Jamo won't get up for this one and Judd looked like he was labouring a bit with that back so perhaps a question mark there.

Hate the Sunday twilight rubbish  >:(

Unfortunately I made a commitment to go to this game with my son-in-law, who is a Lions supporter, and my grandson. I'm not relishing the idea and if my grandson did ever switch his attention from cars to footy I don't like my chances of persuading him to follow us.  :(

Anyway, all I can do is hope.

We need to be beaten and beaten badly.

Really need to send panic through the board and fire up the supporter base.

We need to be beaten and beaten badly.

Really need to send panic through the board and fire up the supporter base.

Your wishes may come true!

Your wishes may come true!

Carn the Brions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If we lose this game, surely its the end of the road for MM

We need to be beaten and beaten badly.

Really need to send panic through the board and fire up the supporter base.

Which will only result in sacking Malthouse, all of the players being given another chance under a new coach and another three lost years until we sack our next coach.
Last night's team was loaded with scrubbers and three of our best 6 had poor games, I don't know what anyone realistically expected.
I'm hoping for a win next Sunday myself, I always hope we win.

Which will only result in sacking Malthouse, all of the players being given another chance under a new coach and another three lost years until we sack our next coach.
Last night's team was loaded with scrubbers and three of our best 6 had poor games, I don't know what anyone realistically expected.
I'm hoping for a win next Sunday myself, I always hope we win.

Nup,

Got to lose our President Luca Brasi and his backers.

The seasons over, the club is almost finished.

We are just drifting into an abyss. Support all you like, won't fix the issues.

You won't have a club worth following shortly.

I think we ll win and a lot of supporters will chill the hell and kind of forget about the mess we re really in as a Club for another week.
Not saying that's the right thing to do, but that s what ll happen.

I'm hoping for a win next Sunday myself, I always hope we win.

Always this.

cimm, don't worry, a win against the Lions won't save anyone's bacon.

This is the only game I'll be at this year, cos of where I live, so I am really hoping for a win and hope Judd gets up for it. Might be my last time seeing him play.

Always this.

cimm, don't worry, a win against the Lions won't save anyone's bacon.

But a loss might have more impact.

I can hope for a win as well. That I no longer expect one tells a lot about how we are faring.
Robbo tried to fire up Brisbane with his comments earlier. He, at least, will be fired up to perform well. I would hope to rob him of this, but at the moment we do not appear to be able to rob a toddler of a lollie without stuffing it up.

Like Meddy, I really want to make an impression. We have guys like Judd, Carrots, Simmo and the like who are not immortal and who may not see next year. They deserve to have a few wins. I cannot think of what we will be like without them, but we had better get used to it. It is coming and there is nothing coming up behind them.

I can hope for a win as well. That I no longer expect one tells a lot about how we are faring.
Robbo tried to fire up Brisbane with his comments earlier. He, at least, will be fired up to perform well. I would hope to rob him of this, but at the moment we do not appear to be able to rob a toddler of a lollie without stuffing it up.

Like Meddy, I really want to make an impression. We have guys like Judd, Carrots, Simmo and the like who are not immortal and who may not see next year. They deserve to have a few wins. I cannot think of what we will be like without them, but we had better get used to it. It is coming and there is nothing coming up behind them.

Bollocks...no one deserves a free jumper to get a win....thats our damm problem...a mates club...

Bollocks...no one deserves a free jumper to get a win....thats our damm problem...a mates club...

I wasn't claiming anyone should have a free jumper. But if, as Juddy just said, our guys are playing more for the jumper than themselves, then they should be doing better, showing more heart, wanting the ball more. I did not see that last night. I want to see it against Brisbane and in every other game we play. Our players were not just disrespecting themselves but disrespecting the Guernsey and the guys like Judd and Carrots who have put their bodies on the line for our club. I want to see them showing the respect our club deserves! I do not want to be a St. Kilda or a Western Bulldogs or a Melbourne.

But a loss might have more impact.

Perhaps - I just have a philosophical opposition to wanting my team to lose. 

Perhaps - I just have a philosophical opposition to wanting my team to lose.

Indeed. Winning breeds winning.
To misquote: Victory has many fathers, defeat is an orphan.

But a loss might have more impact.

Losing can never be a good thing mate, under any circumstances.
The supporters cheering when we got beaten by Melbourne and confirmed Kreuzer in the 2007 draft have sawdust for brains, would Trent Cotchin be handy in navy blue?
The club tanked and got their prize recruit, but all that did was confirm a culture at the club that losing is acceptable and can sometimes be a good thing, it's an attitude that has always mystified me.
I hope we smash Brisbane and that Zach Tuohy knocks Robinson senseless.

Indeed. Winning breeds winning.
To misquote: Victory has many fathers, defeat is an orphan.

Hey Crash - Did you find Mick's book about the slow ox?

Come to think about it, that book might have something to do with how slow most of the players seem to be.

"The team is slow but the fans are not patient"

"The team is slow but the fans are not patient"

 :))

Based on Malthouse's press conference last night, I'd be expecting at least 3-4 changes to the team that lost so badly last night. I'm expecting a strong message to be sent out to everyone with this week's selections.

Depending on who does what in the NB's today will determine who gets the promotion. Wouldn't be surprised to see a leftfield selection either, someone completely unexpected.

The spine needs to be addressed but with limited options to choose from (the overall list is a little bare) so Jamison & Casboult may come back into calculations, even Watson may be thrown a last-gasp lifeline, hopefully Kreuzer is ready too.

IN's : Kreuzer, Jamison, Watson, Menzel, Viojo-Rainbow, Graham
OUT's : Gibbs (omitted), Henderson (inj), Warnock (omitted), Walker (omitted), Ellard (omitted), Curnow (omitted)

Keep in mind;

If your Carlton supporting children aren't doing their chores you can threaten to make them to watch us next Sunday! Should surely set them straight! ;)

Jammos shoulders are shot, so he can't tackle with any confidence and a decent bump stuffs him.

Casboult should have played instead of Warnock. At least Levi can mark. Mick said last night he was dropped because of lack of form, then added "goal kicking form".

Whose fault is that!! The so called genius assistants had 6 months of practice prior to the season to get him right. So no excuse there. Now that the season is 5 rounds old, they bring in Rocca.

Gibbs needs to go. Loves himself too much and is a liability. The young blokes look to the Gibbs' to lead the way. He has been a passenger since the day he started relying on others to do the hard yards.

Watson is a genuine dud. Has got no idea.

They will give Kreuzer another run despite what he might do tomorrow in the VFL.

I'm going and taking my 5 year old grandson for his first ever game.

I'm not expecting much.

Mick will be loathe to drop so called Senior players, because he will hope that they can win a game or two so that he can keep his job.

I had high hopes for Whiley. he was way out of his depth and was terrible.

Ellard can't run out a full game, and isn't good enough.

Curnow, has gone backwards. One day, he's going to swallow a fly or a moth if a game is played at night.

Walker was useless, and lacks match practice. He should have been played forward anyway, but that is typical of mick's conservatism.

I like Bokehorste's effort, but he needs to put on another 10 kilos.
Agree that graham needs to get a go. Dick another chance.

Will Cieran Byrne be fit? If yes, must come in.

I would give Clem Smith another go, especially at Jihad stadium under the roof.

we need speed and some crumbers up forward.

At thew moment it's a dogs breakfast.

I reckon most if not all of us believe that the seasons gone.

I reckon that the Board, should go to Mick and say, "look, you are guaranteed till the end of the year. We WANT you to pick the young blokes who we hope will put in an effort every game. You will not be judged on wins or losses, but rather how well you can get them to play for you and the Club. If you can win some games with them, and have honourable losses, you will have a great chance of getting a new contract."

At the moment, he won't admit it, but Mick is going into preservation mode, because as he told the media, I can't expect to be coach if I don't win games.

Mark Loguidewhatever his name is, needs to put his business hat on, and think with his head not his hearty.

mick has got a proven record of building premiership and finals playing teams from nothing.

Tell him that that's what you want to see if he can do for the rest of this year, with the young blokes, who are obviously a season or two away. it will also give the club a chance to see if we are going to have the nucleus of a team that can make finals in the next two years, or if it's a five year job.

I reckon we have nothing to lose by giving this a shot.

Last night the commentators pumped up Grundy like he was some sort of rucking monolith and the AFLs in-form ruckmen. They are kidding themselves!

The in-form AFL ruckmen is Stefan Martin and he is going to rip our blokes a new one next weekend!

PS; Rockliff was a hard man against us last season, GC's May made him look like a pussy!

Last night the commentators pumped up Grundy like he was some sort of rucking monolith and the AFLs in-form ruckmen. They are kidding themselves!

The in-form AFL ruckmen is Stefan Martin and he is going to rip our blokes a new one next weekend!

You're right, Martin is very athletic and really gets around the ground racking up posessions, tackles etc. Our guys wil be run into the ground.

Well the Suns (inept) have just given the Lions (even more inept) a nice touch up.

It's come to this. We can only hope the Lions are more inept than we are.

Well the Suns (inept) have just given the Lions (even more inept) a nice touch up.

It's come to this. We can only hope the Lions are more inept than we are.

Don't count your chickens PaulP. It could be a draw the way we are going.

Battle of the wooden spooners this game...

Battle of the wooden spooners this game...

But at least we can sleep knowing neither club used illicit drugs. But hahha that's obvious because if the had they'd be sitting 10th and pressing.

There is no way I will accept that we are worse than the Lions. They have an average list, injuries, a rookie coach, and a couple of big losses, including one to the lowly Suns. Their confidence and self belief must be pretty low.

I never expected to beat the Pies. They are coming along nicely, and I was hoping for yet another "honorable loss". I didn't expect a shellacking, but I knew we wouldn't win. 

This game is a must win.

Agree witht he sentiment of previous posts, we cannot acpet a loss the the Lions. Expecting the te players to react and win well. A loss will be a disaster for the club and Mick's future.

Well the Suns (inept) have just given the Lions (even more inept) a nice touch up.

It's come to this. We can only hope the Lions are more inept than we are.

As we are so predictable, there is nothing surer that we will run the Lions into form and they will notch up their first win.

Hey Crash - Did you find Mick's book about the slow ox?

Come to think about it, that book might have something to do with how slow most of the players seem to be.

"The team is slow but the fans are not patient"

  ;D ;D ;D ;D
No, I haven't found that quote, but yours makes a lot of sense!  ;D ;D

I have been looking for the traits of Malthouse teams in our style of play and I don't see them: no intensity, no physical pressure, no strength, no on field discipline, no no-names performing above expectations. Once we had pace, and it seems to have left us. So, yes, "The team is slow but the fans are not patient"!

To be honest, I think Malthouse will come out with a von Clausowitz quote or 2:

'Everything in war is very simple. But the simplest thing is difficult.

'

'Two qualities are indispensable: first, an intellect that, even in the darkest hour, retains some glimmerings of the inner light which leads to truth; and second, the courage to follow this faint light wherever it may lead.

The way we have played so far would show clearly that we find the basics of football difficult indeed.

Now Mozzie is probably incorrect in his quote:

Battle of the wooden spooners this game...

We are truly poor, and so are the Lions, but St. Kilda have already demonstrated that they are worse than us. I think they 'Aints still have the highest probability of finishing below us. However, we do appear to be headed towards a bottom 3 finish, maybe even a bottom 2. Brisbane I thought would be more competitive given the way they finished 2014. They have a few injury worries, but even fewer forwards than we have. They do, however, have a few quick small forwards that we badly lack. They tend to make life difficult for us. It will also be interesting to see how we combat Stefan Martin: I don't think he could have done that well last night, but he has been very good in recent times.

We may not have Hendo or Jamo, but we may get a few others back. (I can hope.) One thing we can be certain of come next weekend:

No battle plan survives contact with the enemy.

@  Crash
Martin had 42 HOs, 4 marks and 24 disposals.

Perhaps - I just have a philosophical opposition to wanting my team to lose.

Well said... and love your Avatar - one of the great thinkers of our time.

Well said... and love your Avatar - one of the great thinkers of our time.

A Noam fan, eh?

Polarising with his views on cognition and language, especially in non-humans.

Lose this and supporters will be baying for blood. 

@  Crash
Martin had 42 HOs, 4 marks and 24 disposals.

In that case our rucks are in for a difficult day. However, we are not without hope. I rate Grundy and we beat him in taps.

In that case our rucks are in for a difficult day. However, we are not without hope. I rate Grundy and we beat him in taps.

Warnock beats 99% of the AFL rucks in taps, but they are worthless stats that have no influence on the result!

Perhaps Judd was talking about 206?

LP and Baggers.

Thanks gents.

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

LP and Baggers.

Thanks gents.

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

I've based most of my major rants on that sentence!

As we are so predictable, there is nothing surer that we will run the Lions into form and they will notch up their first win.

Maybe not run them into form but this is exactly the type of game we would lose.

The players and coaches better not go into this next game against the lions, thinking about how ordinary their playing list is. They better focus on how ordinary our players are at bringing on intensity and pressure when it counts. They better focus on how poor we are and how to turn the attitude around. There is very little we can do about our players skill levels. We have what we have.  If we don't turn the heat on high early enough in the match, the lions will cut us to pieces with running speed.

As others have stated, we could very easily play them into some form. They know this is a game they can win. All they have to do is switch on early and choke the life out of our game. They are young enough and have the legs to last a game. If they are motivated to do so. I am not certain we are. It hasn't been seen in the first 5 rounds. Why would it start now. We couldn't come to play for our coaches biggest moment in his life. Why would things turn around in one week ??? I worry about this game more than any other we have played in the last 2 years. Haven't these guys help us get a sacked coach in the past ? Isn't that exactly what they would love to repeat again ? What a week to give up drinking.

Maybe not run them into form but this is exactly the type of game we would lose.

We are much more predictable now, I don't expect us to win anything!

I'm not worried about this game or any other game this year. There are far bigger events happening atm regarding our future.

The players and coaches better not go into this next game against the lions, thinking about how ordinary their playing list is. They better focus on how ordinary our players are at bringing on intensity and pressure when it counts. They better focus on how poor we are and how to turn the attitude around. There is very little we can do about our players skill levels. We have what we have.  If we don't turn the heat on high early enough in the match, the lions will cut us to pieces with running speed.

As others have stated, we could very easily play them into some form. They know this is a game they can win. All they have to do is switch on early and choke the life out of our game. They are young enough and have the legs to last a game. If they are motivated to do so. I am not certain we are. It hasn't been seen in the first 5 rounds. Why would it start now. We couldn't come to play for our coaches biggest moment in his life. Why would things turn around in one week ??? I worry about this game more than any other we have played in the last 2 years. Haven't these guys help us get a sacked coach in the past ? Isn't that exactly what they would love to repeat again ? What a week to give up drinking.

Picked the wrong week to give up amphetamines!

I've got 2 weeks before that one Thry.  ;D

A mid-Sunday afternoon game, between the 2 worst sides in the comp......be lucky to break 15,000. I'll go, 'cos it's what I do, but never been so disinterested in my life......

I hate it when a season gets like this......and it's only after round 5........FMD.........

This would be ideal to take my 4yo to his first game but we are so shight I'm scared it will put him off footy. I may wait another year unless the coach gets the ass and the style of play improves.

Probably the perfect game mate. My kids grew up in the days of our wooden spoons, but are now starting to really follow the blues so the thrashings didn't put them off too much :)

The smaller crowd games are good as I found with my kids the first couple of games they were pretty overawed by the sound at the bigger games, though they were a little younger.

Picked the wrong week to give up amphetamines!

(http://movie-dude.co.uk/Lloyd%20Bridges%20%20Airplane!%20(1980).jpg)

Me too!

This would be ideal to take my 4yo to his first game but we are so shight I'm scared it will put him off footy. I may wait another year unless the coach gets the ass and the style of play improves.

Just plan to go for the first quarter. Get him a hotdog or something. He'll be happy. If you're lucky, he'll have had enough at 1/4 time and you can go home  ;D

I think my grandson will be happy to watch the hovercraft. May lose him a bit after that.  ::)

Should be a cracking game.   ::)

A Noam fan, eh?

Polarising with his views on cognition and language, especially in non-humans.

Much preferred his social justice stuff... cognition and language the syntactic structures stuff, though probably brilliant, I found to be like a lot of his communication... verbose.

I've based most of my major rants on that sentence!

A classic -Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.

Probably the perfect game mate. My kids grew up in the days of our wooden spoons, but are now starting to really follow the blues so the thrashings didn't put them off too much :)

The smaller crowd games are good as I found with my kids the first couple of games they were pretty overawed by the sound at the bigger games, though they were a little younger.

Cheers MIO, I took the little fella to a Melbourne Victory game a few months back and he didn't seem too overawed with the noise but obviously a 60k+ crowd would be much louder!

Is this the Wooden Spoon game? 

Depends if Mick has learnt. Will he lets us run, if he does we'll pump them. If he hasn't learnt and put everyone almost behind the ball again then he can go flock off because we'll be crap.

I can't believe in his 3rd year here he hasn't worked that out.

Is this the Wooden Spoon game?

Fill name in space provided,

The 2015 .... Cup!

Is this the Wooden Spoon game?

2 days ago I was certain that it wasn't. St. Kilda were demonstratively worse than us, having lost to us by 40 points.
Then came yesterday's game where the 'Aints should have beaten Essendon without Montagne and Riewoldt.
Serious thinking required.
I castigated Mozzie for suggesting that this was the wooden spoon contest. I take back my words. They were well chosen at the time, but alas no longer.
It now looks very much like this is a fight for the #1 pick. Only problem for us is that the real #1 and #2 picks are already certain to play with Sydney next year: Mills and Dunkley.
So, it may be the Weitering Cup?

I could just about be confident of a win in this game if I had ANY sort or confidence around the selection. I fear some more head-scratching changes such as the Warnock inclusion of last week will surface.
Maybe the addition of Watson to add to the treacle that is our forward line?
We are as abysmal as any time during the Pagan era. I expect a tight, error-riddled contest and both teams struggling with the complexities of the game, such as kicking, handballing and marking until another soul destroying narrow loss. Perhaps a last kick winner after the siren by Robbo?
Add to the irony given Jeffy and Eddie are do so well at the moment.
Mothers day on Sunday and normally I get an exemption but on this occasion I may pass.

We'll win this easily.
Collingwood are flying, Hawthorn beat North by 10 goals, there's no need to panic about one bad game.

We'll win this easily.
Collingwood are flying, Hawthorn beat North by 10 goals, there's no need to panic about one bad game.

One bad game ya reckon???

One bad game ya reckon???

 ;D ;D

We are rubbish and so are Brisbane but its being played  on our home soil so we should win by 5 goals but it wont prove or disprove much of anything much like the Stkilda win didnt mean much after last Fridays horrific result...
I just want to see some more young players introduced into the team and if they do well then there is some faint light at the end of the tunnel
and I'll cling on to that for a while...

We are rubbish and so are Brisbane but its being played  on our home soil so we should win by 5 goals but it wont prove or disprove much of anything much like the Stkilda win didnt mean much after last Fridays horrific result...
I just want to see some more young players introduced into the team and if they do well then there is some faint light at the end of the tunnel
and I'll cling on to that for a while...

It's really come to this. Comparing degrees of mediocrity. Both teams are putrid, but they are more putrid than us.

Cold comfort.

Sunday afternoon, Mother's Day, cold, wet, we will win by 30 goals and nobody will be there to see it!

PS: What a crap Mother's Day gift, a ticket to see Carlton vs Brisbane!

Sunday afternoon, Mother's Day, cold, wet, we will win by 30 goals and nobody will be there to see it!

PS: What a crap Mother's Day gift, a ticket to see Carlton vs Brisbane!

LOL thanks for the reminder, forgot all about it :P

 Gerard Whaitley stick your head up your clacker…argues for 1-2 for Lewis hit and 2-3 Hodge…u dog u wanted 4-5 for Yarran….Lewis and Hodge have been snipers for 5 years…cost Murphy 10 weeks broken collar bone…..what a wanker…...

One bad game ya reckon???

In a row.  ;)

Back to the U/16s?…thats good hope I can be part of the next Carlton dynasty.>>…??? could be appropriate for our timeline…..only started on the website when I ran into the Sheik at Milson's Point station 12 years back on the way to a Baggers game in Sydney………back in Melbourne now and never seen such a disparate club…total rabble

I'm soo sad!!! :( :( :(

I saw on Facebook and in the From The Coach email that this game is a buy on get one free entry in GA and kids under 15 free. Does anyone know if this will be available at the ground or only when buying online?

Gerard Whaitley stick your head up your clacker…argues for 1-2 for Lewis hit and 2-3 Hodge…u dog u wanted 4-5 for Yarran….Lewis and Hodge have been snipers for 5 years…cost Murphy 10 weeks broken collar bone…..what a wanker…...

Hodge and Lewis are media men.

Lewis works with Gerard on Fox and I think  Hodge does as well.

I saw on Facebook and in the From The Coach email that this game is a buy on get one free entry in GA and kids under 15 free. Does anyone know if this will be available at the ground or only when buying online?

Kids under 15 definitely free - got one at the week-end. Don't know about the other offer as I only bought one adult ticket (for my son in law) and didn't need a second (damn!). I will use my membership to get in.

Hodge and Lewis are media men.

Lewis works with Gerard on Fox and I think  Hodge does as well.

Hodge's ugly head was on the Ch Bumber commentary team for the Saints v. Bumbers match.

Kids under 15 definitely free - got one at the week-end. Don't know about the other offer as I only bought one adult ticket (for my son in law) and didn't need a second (damn!). I will use my membership to get in.

Yeah I'll be able to use my membership too but going with a few ppl who aren't members. Ah well we'll rock up and see what's the go.

I'm warming to the idea of bringing in Casboult as the first ruck and retaining Wood as second ruck/forward. It would be good for his confidence (better than the NBs), give him some opportunities to kick at goal without the pressure of being a designated forward, and we would benefit from his marking. He's likely to be more part of our future that Warnock I'd say, and he's worth a few games at least to see how he goes.

I'm warming to the idea of bringing in Casboult as the first ruck and retaining Wood as second ruck/forward. It would be good for his confidence (better than the NBs), give him some opportunities to kick at goal without the pressure of being a designated forward, and we would benefit from his marking. He's likely to be more part of our future that Warnock I'd say, and he's worth a few games at least to see how he goes.

There is something in this thought I believe.  Cas is better suited to running with Martin that either Wood or Warnock both of whom would be exploited by Martin's ability o present around the ground.  Even if Cas did no more than stick tight to Martina and give a genuine contest against Martin around the ground that would be better than the free reign Martin would have if "manned up"(and I use that term in the broadest possible sense) by either Warnock or Wood.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-04/concussed-rockliff-no-certainty-to-face-crows

I saw on Facebook and in the From The Coach email that this game is a buy on get one free entry in GA and kids under 15 free. Does anyone know if this will be available at the ground or only when buying online?

Yep.  Kids under 15 for free.  You still need to go to ticket window to get a ticket though.  

Also free popcorn for kids.  If on level 1 they will come along the boundry to give it out.  If on level 2 and 3 kids can get popcorn at hubs Aisle 6, 19 , 30 and 43

There is something in this thought I believe.  Cas is better suited to running with Martin that either Wood or Warnock both of whom would be exploited by Martin's ability o present around the ground.  Even if Cas did no more than stick tight to Martina and give a genuine contest against Martin around the ground that would be better than the free reign Martin would have if "manned up"(and I use that term in the broadest possible sense) by either Warnock or Wood.

IH, I agree about the run, and you would think given the weights Meat can press he'd be the choice for body on body work.

But anyone who makes that assumption is wrong, Meat's biggest weakness is in the wrestle, he lifts like Tarzan and wrestles like Jane!

When you are 100kg and 200cm out on an AFL field of play you have two massive allies, potential and kinetic energy, and the difference between Meat and say Maric is that Maric is prepared to use both to hurt, intimidate and influence players!

Gerard Whaitley stick your head up your clacker…argues for 1-2 for Lewis hit and 2-3 Hodge…u dog u wanted 4-5 for Yarran….Lewis and Hodge have been snipers for 5 years…cost Murphy 10 weeks broken collar bone…..what a wanker…...

Completely agree about Whately...he is a t0sser.  Carey on Talking Footy last night was not as forgiving......he thought 2 weeks was very, very lucky & both he & Watson were in disbelief that May got the same penalty for a perfect hip & shoulder while playing the ball ! Talk about protected species.

Watson was also talking about the possibility of introducing a "sin  bin" ala every other contact sport in the world.......now that I'd like to have seen, both Hodge & Lewis off the ground for a period of time.  He mentioned the Grand Final where Lake won the Norm Smith but also got 4 weeks from the indcident in the game......imagine if Lake had to go off to a Sin Bin for set amount of time.....that could have been the difference between the Hawks winning or losing a GF !

Teams would think twice about thuggary if it meant players missed game time in a GF instead of a couple of weeks the next season.

Darcey, of course, couldn't see it......what a waste of air.

Completely agree about Whately...he is a t0sser.  Carey on Talking Footy last night was not as forgiving......he thought 2 weeks was very, very lucky & both he & Watson were in disbelief that May got the same penalty for a perfect hip & shoulder while playing the ball ! Talk about protected species.

Watson was also talking about the possibility of introducing a "sin  bin" ala every other contact sport in the world.......now that I'd like to have seen, both Hodge & Lewis off the ground for a period of time.  He mentioned the Grand Final where Lake won the Norm Smith but also got 4 weeks from the indcident in the game......imagine if Lake had to go off to a Sin Bin for set amount of time.....that could have been the difference between the Hawks winning or losing a GF !

Teams would think twice about thuggary if it meant players missed game time in a GF instead of a couple of weeks the next season.

Darcey, of course, couldn't see it......what a waste of air.

If implemented correctly, the sin bin is an excellent idea.

Agree with all your opinions about the commentators - Darcy, GW are major douches. Carey is becoming my favourite. Partly because he is actually ok, and partly because the competition is non existent. 

Good post malo.

Don't like the sin bin idea. Umps are scary enough.

Why were Collingwood booing Judd BTW? Just feral?

If implemented correctly, the sin bin is an excellent idea.

Agree with all your opinions about the commentators - Darcy, GW are major douches. Carey is becoming my favourite. Partly because he is actually ok, and partly because the competition is non existent. 

Good post malo.

Agree Paul & Malo.

I respect Carey's views - he makes a lot of sense to me, unlike most of the others. Mathews is also good IMO.

Don't like the sin bin idea. Umps are scary enough.

Why were Collingwood booing Judd BTW? Just feral?

Isn't it because he chose us over them?

Isn't it because he chose us over them?

They didn't really boo him when he started though. I'm thinking because the umps keep giving him 3 brownlow votes against Collingwood but that isn't his fault  ;D

Agree Paul & Malo.

I respect Carey's views - he makes a lot of sense to me, unlike most of the others. Mathews is also good IMO.

Agree cookie - Lethal is good.

The thuggery in WA Amateur football was cleared up in a season with the introduction of the send off rule about 25 years ago.

They've tweaked it a bit now into a card system, but still a great innovation.

The thuggery in WA Amateur football was cleared up in a season with the introduction of the send off rule about 25 years ago.

They've tweaked it a bit now into a card system, but still a great innovation.

Works OK in the VAFA, yellow, red and black cards. I think yellow is off for 12 minutes, and red is off for 12 minutes no replacement, black is off for the remainder of the game, reported and no replacement until 12 minutes has elapsed. Or something like that.

The AFL could do this in conjunction with the video ref as a safe guard to an obvious error and to confirm the level of the penalty!

A send off rule has some merits but is also diluted in its effect in a game with 18 on the park. It is also difficult to enforce in the context of a contact sport where there is great variation in the nature of contacts. For example in soccer the difference between a foul and an action worthy of a yellow or red card tends to be clearer.

Further complicating the picture is the manner in which reports are determined,  including concepts of intent and the degree of impact. A send off rule would make this even more complex, with a high degree of subjectivity involved.

The application of discretion by the umpire would be difficult when the range of penalties are expanded by the addition of a send off rule.  It increases the area of grey.

I think it works at an amateur level and elevates the umpires with some more authority and clout. At league level, with TV cameras on, it may be less useful.

Agree cookie - Lethal is good.

Nick Maxwell is actually good to listen to on SEN..insightful, easy voice and doesn't bluster..just calmly talks and that's it..I really enjoyed it compared to the kids on Triple M.

Nick Maxwell is actually good to listen to on SEN..insightful, easy voice and doesn't bluster..just calmly talks and that's it..I really enjoyed it compared to the kids on Triple M.

I don't listen to SEN, but Maxwell is occasionally an "expert commentator" on the games on TV, and I agree Woodstock. I can see why he was made Captain.

Maxwell is a good talker and has great knowledge.

So you all reckon the fall out from last Friday nights beyond putrid effort was big, lose this week and its strap yourselves in and enjoy the ride. And I reckon we are just the mob to do it. :( #mothersdaymassacre

Leppa apologised for man handling one of his players this week - he looks shot. Brisbane are no chance, losing this would be a staggering result

Leppa apologised for man handling one of his players this week - he looks shot. Brisbane are no chance, losing this would be a staggering result

I honestly feel nauseous just thinking about it.

The player involved sounds like a bit of a cocky punk, but still, that's no excuse for what Leppa did.

Looks like SOP for frustrated coach with problem player... when I played I wished teh roach grabbed a couple of the seagulls I played with.

So do we sack an experienced and capable coach in favour of going for a young coach like Leppitsch?

People are quick to point out where it worked, and gloss over where it hasnt, and I reckon our environment is too toxic for someone too inexperienced.

So do we sack an experienced and capable coach in favour of going for a young coach like Leppitsch?

People are quick to point out where it worked, and gloss over where it hasnt, and I reckon our environment is too toxic for someone too inexperienced.

The two situations don't compare, Brisbane were traveling well when they got rid of Voss. If Mick had us thereabouts then it would be a fair argument to mount. If you want a comparison, look at where a coach has been failing dismally and been replaced.

So you all reckon the fall out from last Friday nights beyond putrid effort was big, lose this week and its strap yourselves in and enjoy the ride. And I reckon we are just the mob to do it. :( #mothersdaymassacre

Given the issues in Brisbane with Leppitsch it will be more interesting than it already would have been. We had better turn up this week.

Given the issues in Brisbane with Leppitsch it will be more interesting than it already would have been. We had better turn up this week.

Yep. This will either be an embarrassing loss or a pretty meaningless win - either way we will still remain on Cold Comfort Farm.  :(

Yep. This will either be an embarrassing loss or a pretty meaningless win - either way we will still remain on Cold Comfort Farm.  :(

Yep...win and its wont change much but if we lose and say got hammered then I reckon Mick might be close to chucking it in like Carey suggested he would...

Looking at the injury list,
[1] we MAY get Jamo back. That wouldn't be a bad thing if he were really fit. Even so, Brisbane don't have a lot of dangerous forward options.
[2] Casboult or Watson may be in line to replace Hendo. Even with last week's disaster, Hendo is our best bet at CHF or FF. That is pretty frightening when he didn't manage a single possession in the first half last week.
However, with Hendo definitely missing this week, we do need someone to kick the goals. Casboult has been kicking poorly and not getting much of the ball while Watson has not been over impressive either. One of them would be probable to play. Watson may get the nod as he has been in some goal kicking form. But neither has really called out 'Pick Me' in the VFL yet.
It is possible that we will use 2 ruckmen and rest them forward.
[3] Menzel MAY be available. The message in the paper yesterday suggested he may play. I wouldn't play him until he not just gets through a full game, but that he actually gets a few goals.
[4] Neither Byrne nor Sheehan are ready. This is a pity as both would be good for us: pace and a little aggression with decent disposal. Should all our players come from Ireland? At least that way they may be able to kick.
[5] Yarran, White and Kreuzer are not far away. This will help our team a lot, especially if the big man can start showing some form.

I think it's a disgrace that we played Hendo last week when he was crippled with injury and we had players like Cas and Watto available.

I think it's a disgrace that we played Hendo last week when he was crippled with injury and we had players like Cas and Watto available.

It was a poor decision that we paid for. I hope they make the right call this time.

So do we sack an experienced and capable coach in favour of going for a young coach like Leppitsch?

People are quick to point out where it worked, and gloss over where it hasnt, and I reckon our environment is too toxic for someone too inexperienced.

Or the Opposite... ie. Gold Coast.

It was a poor decision that we paid for. I hope they make the right call this time.

I wonder if Eddlestone with play Menzel this week :-)  :P

The two situations don't compare, Brisbane were traveling well when they got rid of Voss. If Mick had us thereabouts then it would be a fair argument to mount. If you want a comparison, look at where a coach has been failing dismally and been replaced.

Brisbane have stalled spectacular both during and post Voss and have been haemoraging talent ever since.  Elliot Yeo, Sam Docherty to name a few, and even a relatively new acquisition like Aish is about to walk out the door.

Isn't Leppitsch one of those coaches that supposed to be young hip and up to it?

Change is not always a good thing, particularly when our club is unsettled.

Brisbane have stalled spectacular both during and post Voss and have been haemoraging talent ever since.  Elliot Yeo, Sam Docherty to name a few, and even a relatively new acquisition like Aish is about to walk out the door.

Isn't Leppitsch one of those coaches that supposed to be young hip and up to it?

Change is not always a good thing, particularly when our club is unsettled.

Saw an interview with Leppa today and he sounded just like a certain Mick Maltouse; bewildered, perplexed, exasperated etc. You could easily come to the conclusion that "he has lost the players".

The fish rots at the head cookie.

The club keeps using buzzwords like loyalty, us, United, believe, but stumble ever so slightly and they are ready to replace you as quickly as possible.

Despite what we think of Malthouse and where we were at or where we have been, the knives have been out from the start and it's got to do with how we cut Ratten short, and what process was followed to bring him in.

We talk a good game, but currently I see no reason why anyone should take any of the United crap seriously until we start showing we are serious about evolving.

No quick fixes at the latest AGM according to mozzie but, sure enough we will take that route as soon as it presents itself.

Or the Opposite... ie. Gold Coast.

or Carlton :P

The fish rots at the head cookie.

The club keeps using buzzwords like loyalty, us, United, believe, but stumble ever so slightly and they are ready to replace you as quickly as possible.

Despite what we think of Malthouse and where we were at or where we have been, the knives have been out from the start and it's got to do with how we cut Ratten short, and what process was followed to bring him in.

We talk a good game, but currently I see no reason why anyone should take any of the United crap seriously until we start showing we are serious about evolving.

No quick fixes at the latest AGM according to mozzie but, sure enough we will take that route as soon as it presents itself.

Agree. Much of our problem is at the "head" and that can certainly have a major impact at all other levels. The "head" is after all where the culture is set and maintained.

Drop Jones, Watson in as he's shown he better forward than back Casboult back as 2nd ruck and move Jaksch moved forward if Jammo rerturns. Menzel back in the team and Walker forward. Then the key is to get numbers more forward so we can run the ball quickly in the forward line so these blokes have space to run into. That'll give these blokes some confidence. Play last week's rotten game plan, with a million blokes behind the ball, and those poor younger blokes forward will be totally lost, as Hendo was last week, as they'll be no run hence no speed of ball movement going forward.

Brisbane have stalled spectacular both during and post Voss and have been haemoraging talent ever since.  Elliot Yeo, Sam Docherty to name a few, and even a relatively new acquisition like Aish is about to walk out the door.

Isn't Leppitsch one of those coaches that supposed to be young hip and up to it?

Change is not always a good thing, particularly when our club is unsettled.

Change is a good thing when your side is going backwards. It's not a good thing when your side is improving see Ratten, Voss and Mckenna.

Drop Jones, Watson in as he's shown he better forward than back Casboult back as 2nd ruck and move Jaksch moved forward if Jammo rerturns. Menzel back in the team and Walker forward. Then the key is to get numbers more forward so we can run the ball quickly in the forward line so these blokes have space to run into. That'll give these blokes some confidence. Play last week's rotten game plan, with a million blokes behind the ball, and those poor younger blokes forward will be totally lost, as Hendo was last week, as they'll be no run hence no speed of ball movement going forward.

Sorry, but arguing about Jones v Watson v Casboult (as forwards) is like arguing over whether we want 3.93 out of 10, or 3.99 out of ten or 3.88 out of ten. It's like having very little x 3. Jaksch looks more like a tall forward prospect than the 3 of them!

Jim... Isn't CAS the 1st ruck ?

Jim... Isn't CAS the 1st ruck ?

No 2nd. Thought you'd know that.

Drop Jones, Watson in as he's shown he better forward than back Casboult back as 2nd ruck and move Jaksch moved forward if Jammo rerturns. Menzel back in the team and Walker forward. Then the key is to get numbers more forward so we can run the ball quickly in the forward line so these blokes have space to run into. That'll give these blokes some confidence. Play last week's rotten game plan, with a million blokes behind the ball, and those poor younger blokes forward will be totally lost, as Hendo was last week, as they'll be no run hence no speed of ball movement going forward.

Fair points Jim...its not like Jones hasnt been given a go and while I am no fan of Watson I think he plays better in the seniors
and deserves an equal opportunity like Jones has received ..
Agree on Walker..its a no brainer he should play forward....

Sorry, but arguing about Jones v Watson v Casboult (as forwards) is like arguing over whether we want 3.93 out of 10, or 3.99 out of ten or 3.88 out of ten. It's like having very little x 3. Jaksch looks more like a tall forward prospect than the 3 of them!

Given Casboult will be one of the ruckmen his rating might go up a little. He's done alright there. Why people are rating him as a forward I don't know. He'll come in for Warnock.

No 2nd. Thought you'd know that.

Sorry Jim, my mistake... I thought you were telling me that he was playing 1st ruck.
Remember the thread about the blue ants ? Page 3-4 I think.

And to be fair to you, I was only interested because carrots claimed that cas had a blinder of a preseason or some such rot...

Change is a good thing when your side is going backwards. It's not a good thing when your side is improving see Ratten, Voss and Mckenna.

Again I must disagree.

Change can be dangerous when it's change for making changes sake.

In a football club, continuity is king.

Teams get better when they approach 100 games playing footy together.

Teams execute plans better when they play together more often.  That means not five games of playing footy together and writing blokes off or changing tactics frequently or moving players backwards and forwards on the field. 

I think our football department needs to be left to work their way through this, just like it should have been back in 2012, but, at least we are structured in our inability to perform.   There is elements of a formation I can see in our play, which tells me that the blokes are trying something but it's not working... Yet.

Again I must disagree.

Change can be dangerous when it's change for making changes sake.

In a football club, continuity is king.

Teams get better when they approach 100 games playing footy together.

Teams execute plans better when they play together more often.  That means not five games of playing footy together and writing blokes off or changing tactics frequently or moving players backwards and forwards on the field. 

I think our football department needs to be left to work their way through this, just like it should have been back in 2012, but, at least we are structured in our inability to perform.   There is elements of a formation I can see in our play, which tells me that the blokes are trying something but it's not working... Yet.

We are woeful, the plan we are executing is woeful, its a defensive, negative, unfashionable, oudated piece of work  that you would associate with the worst clubs in the comp.
We lack flair, cant score and its a shocking brand to watch.......we wont attract members/supporters or sponsors if we wait another 100 games.
Its more dangerous to do nothing......you reckon ManU, Chelsea, Bayern Munich etc would let their teams be hammered every week and do nothing, not likely....
The Romans sat back did nothing and lost an Empire......
There is an old saying..Nothing diminishes anxiety faster than action.....

We are woeful, the plan we are executing is woeful, its a defensive, negative, unfashionable, oudated piece of work  that you would associate with the worst clubs in the comp.
We lack flair, cant score and its a shocking brand to watch.......we wont attract members/supporters or sponsors if we wait another 100 games.
Its more dangerous to do nothing......you reckon ManU, Chelsea, Bayern Munich etc would let their teams be hammered every week and do nothing, not likely....
The Romans sat back did nothing and lost an Empire......
There is an old saying..Nothing diminishes anxiety faster than action.....

Pretty much sums it up.

Jaksch looks more like a tall forward prospect than the 3 of them!

Until he goes into that black hole that's our forward area ;)

Until he goes into that black hole that's our forward area ;)

That black hole is created by our style of play. One of a lack of movement forward. Limited leading from the forwards. Bombing the ball forwards to no benefit of a contest. Lack of players trying to crumb a ball at a spillage. Too many going for a leap in the same contest, and the list could go on forever.

'Game plan' is one of the misnomers of football in that it implies a clear process or style. Game plans if they can even be called that are a set of preferences ideally or priorities. At the moment, the observation that our game plan is too defensive or negative is more the result of poor skills, lack of confidence and players, especially midfield not running enough, not that the coach is telling them to be stodgy and not play up the middle.

Having confidence in one's skills and the skills of teammates requires also having good skills. So the half back that manages a precise pass into the centre to be marked and carried by a teammate makes a 'game plan' look attacking. Is it a different game plan really? Im not so sure. What I do know is that our half back line and back line often miss targets. If i was coaching, a solution may be to play the wings more often. Do we want Walker or Jamison attempting to hit targets in the middle whenever possible?

As for the game this week, I cant see Watson getting a game. He is not kicking bags in the seconds and lacks the pace to play at league level. Unless this radically changes it is hard to see him selected. Jones has been average, but he has shown some improvement so far. There are other players to drop for poor efforts before Jones.

We are woeful, the plan we are executing is woeful, its a defensive, negative, unfashionable, oudated piece of work  that you would associate with the worst clubs in the comp.
We lack flair, cant score and its a shocking brand to watch.......we wont attract members/supporters or sponsors if we wait another 100 games.
Its more dangerous to do nothing......you reckon ManU, Chelsea, Bayern Munich etc would let their teams be hammered every week and do nothing, not likely....
The Romans sat back did nothing and lost an Empire......
There is an old saying..Nothing diminishes anxiety faster than action.....

You can't compare a footy team to soccer.

Chelsea have the biggest budget in European football.   They buy the most expensive attacking players and then play  a defensive system.

By even mentioning them you miss the point.

They can buy a new team like we used to back with form 4's

In afl not everyone is on the market, and you can't rotate your squad as quickly in the off season.   It takes time or you go backwards.

In Afl things are cyclical.  We cut our up short anticipating the up wouldn't get high enough.  Maybe too early or not. 

Be honest can you see us improving in Port Adelaide fashion, if we change coach and if so why?

Is it the amazing key position talent?
The United board pursuing excellence?
Do we have a home ground advantage?
An abundance of talent stifled by our game plan so that they can no longer hit targets, Hunt the footy, or defend in any capacity?

I'm dying to hear why, the cause for such optimistic expectation under a new coach when carrots, Simpson and Judd are looking a bit tired and the rest below fail to fire weekly.

'Game plan' is one of the misnomers of football in that it implies a clear process or style. Game plans if they can even be called that are a set of preferences ideally or priorities. At the moment, the observation that our game plan is too defensive or negative is more the result of poor skills, lack of confidence and players, especially midfield not running enough, not that the coach is telling them to be stodgy and not play up the middle.

Having confidence in one's skills and the skills of teammates requires also having good skills. So the half back that manages a precise pass into the centre to be marked and carried by a teammate makes a 'game plan' look attacking. Is it a different game plan really? Im not so sure. What I do know is that our half back line and back line often miss targets. If i was coaching, a solution may be to play the wings more often. Do we want Walker or Jamison attempting to hit targets in the middle whenever possible?

As for the game this week, I cant see Watson getting a game. He is not kicking bags in the seconds and lacks the pace to play at league level. Unless this radically changes it is hard to see him selected. Jones has been average, but he has shown some improvement so far. There are other players to drop for poor efforts before Jones.

What other club sends out two defensive forwards each week?.......

You can't compare a footy team to soccer.

Chelsea have the biggest budget in European football.   They buy the most expensive attacking players and then play  a defensive system.

By even mentioning them you miss the point.

They can buy a new team like we used to back with form 4's

In afl not everyone is on the market, and you can't rotate your squad as quickly in the off season.   It takes time or you go backwards.

In Afl things are cyclical.  We cut our up short anticipating the up wouldn't get high enough.  Maybe too early or not. 

Be honest can you see us improving in Port Adelaide fashion, if we change coach and if so why?

Is it the amazing key position talent?
The United board pursuing excellence?
Do we have a home ground advantage?
An abundance of talent stifled by our game plan so that they can no longer hit targets, Hunt the footy, or defend in any capacity?

I'm dying to hear why, the cause for such optimistic expectation under a new coach when carrots, Simpson and Judd are looking a bit tired and the rest below fail to fire weekly.

Bang on. It is inconceivable that a change of coach will suddenly see a bunch of average players become world beaters. So many disfunctional organisations think in the terms of change the top dog and it will turn things around. It has rarely, if ever been a good ploy, and i have worked in some places with such a mentality. In the artificial environment of league footy with salary caps et al it is even less likely to work.

What a sudden change of top dog usually does is either nothing, or chaos as they attempt a whole raft of changes.

I hope Malthouse sticks on and is given a couple of years to keep going. I have no fondness for the guy, he is cantankerous and presents poorly in the media. But, he is not doing the job he was hired to do by a delusional board. The role has changed into a longer term construction of a competitive club from the board down, not just a team that runs out each week. This has ben rocky but appears to have settled.

What is in our favour is that Malthouse is one of the very few I imagine that could front the board and not pull punches about where we are at as an organisation. I cannot see many others sitting with that goulish mob and telling them they have wrecked the joint and it is time to shut up and listen. Something must have got through because we are changing some things. New staff have come in, some poor performers have left, and our drafting for the past two years has direction. Malthouse also knows and has experienced what is required to turn a club and a team around.

There is alot of heavy lifting to come, but the job has started. Flicking the coach for either another old hand or a newbie is not going to get the job done any better, and most likely it would stall.

You can't compare a footy team to soccer.

Chelsea have the biggest budget in European football.   They buy the most expensive attacking players and then play  a defensive system.

By even mentioning them you miss the point.

They can buy a new team like we used to back with form 4's

In afl not everyone is on the market, and you can't rotate your squad as quickly in the off season.   It takes time or you go backwards.

In Afl things are cyclical.  We cut our up short anticipating the up wouldn't get high enough.  Maybe too early or not. 

Be honest can you see us improving in Port Adelaide fashion, if we change coach and if so why?

Is it the amazing key position talent?
The United board pursuing excellence?
Do we have a home ground advantage?
An abundance of talent stifled by our game plan so that they can no longer hit targets, Hunt the footy, or defend in any capacity?

I'm dying to hear why, the cause for such optimistic expectation under a new coach when carrots, Simpson and Judd are looking a bit tired and the rest below fail to fire weekly.

Chelsea bought right and attacked for most of the season to build up their points lead and only defended in the latter part of the season to plays safe....smart manager is Jose M.
Jose developed that team of stars into a team and empowered his players, picked a hard nosed captain in Terry and let his skilled players like Eden Hazard play...he didnt send Hazard out to be defensive
player who marked opposing players....
We could learn plenty from Chelsea.....

Port were a rabble under Primus like we are under Malthouse...Robbie Gray went from being a copy of Colin Sylvia  to the best player in the comp under Hinkley last season...
Schultz was a badboy lemon at Richmond who couldnt  buy a goal...now is one of the premier FF's in the comp....

Why cant a Nick Graham be coached into being the next Robbie Gray, why cant Liam Jones do a Schultz?......why cant Menzel become like Chad Wingard?
What has Paul Roos done to make Jeff Garlett a new man?

Hinkley didnt rotate the squad he rotated the game plan and mindset of his players.....whats to lose in trying a new attacking model?

Chelsea bought right and attacked for most of the season to build up their points lead and only defended in the latter part of the season to plays safe....smart manager is Jose M.
Jose developed that team of stars into a team and empowered his players, picked a hard nosed captain in Terry and let his skilled players like Eden Hazard play...he didnt send Hazard out to be defensive
player who marked opposing players....
We could learn plenty from Chelsea.....

Port were a rabble under Primus like we are under Malthouse...Robbie Gray went from being a copy of Colin Sylvia  to the best player in the comp under Hinkley last season...
Schultz was a badboy lemon at Richmond who couldnt  buy a goal...now is one of the premier FF's in the comp....

Why cant a Nick Graham be coached into being the next Robbie Gray, why cant Liam Jones do a Schultz?......why cant Menzel become like Chad Wingard?
What has Paul Roos done to make Jeff Garlett a new man?

Hinkley didnt rotate the squad he rotated the game plan and mindset of his players.....whats to lose in trying a new attacking model?

I agree with comments about many of the above players. Clearly something has clicked with many of them and they have matched their potential. But it is folly to think that a new head coach alone is the reason. The coach can't motivate players, only they can. The head coach has a major role in creating an environment whereby players are fully motivated, but not the only role. In a practical sense, in a team of 44 how often does the coach talk or work directly to each player? More often it is assistants, other staff, and most significantly, the other players. An organisation has lots of moving parts, with a great many variables. I'm more inclined to think the dismal leadership on field is more of a factor, but nor is it the only one.

Carlton are a club that is only just realising that more needs to is be asked of them. The next step is when each player and staff member in the club are asking more of each other consistently.

Thry and Vivian no one has said changing the coach will make us worldbeaters, it will however make us competitive. The coach is CLEARLY responsible for motivating the players thinking different is nonsensical and unrealistic. The coach is paid 1 million+ for what exactly if not that? To implement a style of play and motivate his players to play to it. If a coach is failing at any one of these two things (in our case both) then they need to go. It's not brain surgery.

Thry I cannot believe that someone who continuously brings up examples of soccer in their posts would then turn around and say 'you can't compare a footy team to soccer'.

@ EB
Can I just say one thing about Schultz and Garlett. They always had talent to burn, unfortunately they were ratbags at their previous clubs and after a series of warning were given the boot. Both have had a kick in the back side and the penny has dropped for them (at least for Schultz it has). I agree though that Primus couldnt teach pigs to roll in mud  and Hinkley can.
As for some of the other names you mention from our list? I am not sure they are as talented as people think and comparable to Gray etc. Its funny really, everyone agrees our recruiting has been abhorrent yet we expect the spuds on our list to grow a leg under a new coach or suddenly have value at the trade table.
Having said all that, there is something rotten in Denmark as they say and changes will be made. The question is, will they get it right?

I just want a bloke like Graham to get a go so we can see. Amazing that he's still in the twos when we're traveling so poorly.

Everyone wanted Whiley to get a go and he was terrible.

If we are talking about Port as an example of how to turn things around we have to look off field as well. What was it that Kochie brought to the club to creat a suitable environment for Hinkley and the players to flourish in?

Everyone wanted Whiley to get a go and he was terrible.

Graham has already shown himself to be competent at senior level. He's clearly not on Mick's favourites list.

Bang on. It is inconceivable that a change of coach will suddenly see a bunch of average players become world beaters

That's an interesting thing to say as it has happened on more than one occasion. Maybe they're not world beaters but Mick should be getting the most out of his players, he's getting FA out of them now and has never got the best out of them, or near it IMO. Probably in the club's as well, the prez has stated there is talent on the list.

Why would we expect things to miraculously change?

We know good teaching can improve students in the classroom - it can also improve players on the field.

And as stated previously, why do they need to be world beaters? They just need to be competitive. We can build from there.

If we are talking about Port as an example of how to turn things around we have to look off field as well. What was it that Kochie brought to the club to creat a suitable environment for Hinkley and the players to flourish in?

Alan Richardson, the bloke Mick wanted to let go when he arrived at the club. :P

Thry and Vivian no one has said changing the coach will make us worldbeaters, it will however make us competitive. The coach is CLEARLY responsible for motivating the players thinking different is nonsensical and unrealistic. The coach is paid 1 million+ for what exactly if not that? To implement a style of play and motivate his players to play to it. If a coach is failing at any one of these two things (in our case both) then they need to go. It's not brain surgery.

Thry I cannot believe that someone who continuously brings up examples of soccer in their posts would then turn around and say 'you can't compare a footy team to soccer'.

x2...is this the list to win a flag..No.....is this the list to be top 4..No...we should be midpack IMO and not being hammered by Collingwood, WC etc.....

I believe that coached correctly and with committed players that this list is capable of a mid table finish.  This is "getting the best from what we have".

Is it acceptable... not really, but at least we would be maximising what we have and there are fewer obstacles between you and a top 4 finish from mid table as opposed to being a cellar dweller.

@ EB and Proff E
Both absolutely correct.

I believe that coached correctly and with committed players that this list is capable of a mid table finish.  This is "getting the best from what we have".

Is it acceptable... not really, but at least we would be maximising what we have and there are fewer obstacles between you and a top 4 finish from mid table as opposed to being a cellar dweller.

Probably right - mid table is about where this list could get as it currently stands. Certainly is far from premiership material.

Alan Richardson, the bloke Mick wanted to let go when he arrived at the club. :P

He punted him out of the Pies as well didn't he?.

Mick, Mick, Mick what are we to do with you.?

I just want a bloke like Graham to get a go so we can see. Amazing that he's still in the twos when we're traveling so poorly.

The argument would be that Graham has no defensive skills and needs to learn them in the twos despite the fact he finds the footy well...
Needless to say was it Gibbs, Murphy, Judd etc who had two tackles between them vs Collingwood?.... :-X
Graham should be in the senior team learning the game..he will pick up 20 possies plus each week in the twos easy, and will learn nothing from a dud
like Webster...better he plays with Judd while he still at the club and learns something from the master..

Chelsea bought right and attacked for most of the season to build up their points lead and only defended in the latter part of the season to plays safe....smart manager is Jose M.
Jose developed that team of stars into a team and empowered his players, picked a hard nosed captain in Terry and let his skilled players like Eden Hazard play...he didnt send Hazard out to be defensive
player who marked opposing players....
We could learn plenty from Chelsea.....

  They play defensive football first.

Port were a rabble under Primus like we are under Malthouse...Robbie Gray went from being a copy of Colin Sylvia  to the best player in the comp under Hinkley last season...
Schultz was a badboy lemon at Richmond who couldnt  buy a goal...now is one of the premier FF's in the comp....

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jay_Schulz.html

His kicking boots were on before Hinkley got there.  Has averaged 30+ goals per season since his arrival at Port Adelaide back in 2010, and kicked 40+ in the seasons that Primus were in charge, and Port were a rabble.  His major talent was making the most of limited opportunities.  Always was a good kick, had the potential to take the competition by storm in a good side.

Why cant a Nick Graham be coached into being the next Robbie Gray, why cant Liam Jones do a Schultz?......why cant Menzel become like Chad Wingard?
What has Paul Roos done to make Jeff Garlett a new man?

 
Garlett may very well be what he is today because we cut him loose, and now he is making the most of his second chance for it.  We can never know if this would have occurred with us, or whether that status quo would remain, but we got a glimpse of his down days in round 2.

Menzel could be the next Wingard. Wingard averaged 21 posessions in 2013.  Menzel shows promise of being a wingard, one day.  he isnt the same beast at the moment, and in a more attacking game plan, might do well, but I dont think he will achieve Wingard's level without a serious growth in his ability.

Robbie Gray is another one who was always a solid player, played 7 seasons and found peak form.  Nick Graham could become like him, in time.

Laim Jones wont ever be a schultz, and I think its unfair to make the comparison.  Might be able to do a Westhoff if we are lucky, but not a Schultz. 

Hinkley didnt rotate the squad he rotated the game plan and mindset of his players.....whats to lose in trying a new attacking model?

We have a few boys that can play their roles, but we dont have all the ingredients and most of the Port boys showed more under Primus, than our boys currently are under Malthouse, and just becuase Hinkley reorganised them doesnt mean that ours will all of a sudden become twice the player they were.

If we are talking about Port as an example of how to turn things around we have to look off field as well. What was it that Kochie brought to the club to creat a suitable environment for Hinkley and the players to flourish in?

This.  Very much this, and I can tell you, he didnt chop the recruiting, make broad statements about rebuilding the team, and make public sentiments about the teams fortunes for the season.  He fixed the back room, and left the footy department to the football people.  If Kochie were to take over Carlton, we would probably chase him out with pitchforks because he does most of his work in Sydney, and what could he possibly achieve from there?

That is where we are different.  The leadership at the very top.  Talk is cheap, and that's all Carlton is good for.

Everyone wanted Whiley to get a go and he was terrible.

Here you go Whiley, Averaging 30 disposals at VFL level and kicking goals...but how about you tag Pendlebury.

He was disappointing though. I think he can play, so hoping for a good one.

Here you go Whiley, Averaging 30 disposals at VFL level and kicking goals...but how about you tag Pendlebury.

LOL.  This. 

@Thry

Talk is cheap, and that's all Carlton is good for.

YES!

Anyhow, Im just glad we are playing Friday. Sunday being mothers day should provide us with cover. ;D 8)

Here you go Whiley, Averaging 30 disposals at VFL level and kicking goals...but how about you tag Pendlebury.

He was disappointing though. I think he can play, so hoping for a good one.

Had tagged Pendles before and done a good job, so why not ?
In saying that, for a supposed 'hard nut', he was pretty bad.

So after six games the first player to break into double figures for goal kicking at Carlton is likely to be a midfielder.

We can't buy goals right now. If we play Casboult this week where do we play him?

to me it is players not good enough so who ever coaches us will not make slow players quicker,hold that mark when he has 2 opp.What he can change is our under10 game plan,i am glad brownie mention it in the small paper.

Here you go Whiley, Averaging 30 disposals at VFL level and kicking goals...but how about you tag Pendlebury.

He was disappointing though. I think he can play, so hoping for a good one.

This is the exact point I have been making about playing good players where they are good, and not turning them in to standardized bunch of heavily coached robots!

I think part of being promoted to the Carlton 1s is that you must drop off your brain, all you have learned, your ambition, drive and motivation with your cellphone at the property steward on the way in! ;)

Had tagged Pendles before and done a good job, so why not ?
In saying that, for a supposed 'hard nut', he was pretty bad.

I guess Ed Curnow was there for his line breaking skills and long kicking.

All in all Whiley is a keeper, 30+ possessions in the 2s for a couple of weeks running is as good as we have had from any newbie and equaled only by Cripps in the last couple of years.

Last year GWS vs Collingwood Whiley played the same role for GWS;
2014 R22   Collingwood   9   8   17   3   0   9   2   0   1   0   6   96   Loss

His lack of a result might be related to the blokes around him!

Carlton's squad to take on Brisbane:

Backs   42. Zach Tuohy   18. Kristian Jaksch   17. Sam Rowe
Half-backs   33. Andrejs Everitt   6. Kade Simpson   1. Andrew Walker
Centreline   15. Sam Docherty   5. Chris Judd   28. Tom Bell
Half-forwards   39. Dale Thomas   41. Levi Casboult   27. Dennis Armfield
Forwards   4. Bryce Gibbs   14. Liam Jones   12. Blaine Boekhorst
Followers   36. Cameron Wood   9. Patrick Cripps   3. Marc Murphy (C)
Interchance (from)   7. Dylan Buckley   35. Ed Curnow   46. David Ellard
    32. Nick Graham   2. Troy Menzel   11. Rob Warnock
    24. Mark Whiley       
In: D. Thomas, L. Casboult, T. Menzel, N. Graham

Out: L. Henderson (hamstring)


Daisy has made a miraculous recovery but I hope he doesn't do more damage.  He'll certainly be tested out.  Menzel also seems to have recovered from the hammy(?) that had him sit out much of the NBs game.

Still no Jamison and losing Henderson makes it slim pickings in the KP stocks.

I reckon Warnock has to go.
Whiley was like a deer in headlights last week. Send him back to the 2's and let him get his confidence back.
Send Curnow back to the 2's and tell him to work on his attacking side.

Keep whichever one of Menzel/Thomas are fittest and give the other one one more week off.

daisy and menzel should come through ressies play for 4 q and then u might get a call up.

No to Menzel and Daisy - they can't be fit.  Ellard and Warnock very lucky to get a run IMO.

Can't see Thomas getting a gig, most likely not Menzel. Levi for Warnock.

Congrats to Graham who most likely gets the nod. Hopefully not the sub before going back to the twos as is Mick's usual MO.

Jake Niall said this morning;

"There will be changes, but statements are unlikely."

Mick Malthouse-coached teams are renowned for tackling, for defending and for expending near maximum effort – irrespective of their talent. None of these non-negotiables was evident in the coach's record-breaking game last Friday night.

Bryce Gibbs was far from theThere will be changes, but statements are unlikely.  only player who let down club and coach, but his output was probably the worst of all when measured against his high capabilities.

Gibbs, Carlton's 2014 best and fairest and in the first year of a five-year contract, was one of half a dozen Blues who did not lay a tackle. Of his seven kicks, only one was effective. He was among the onlookers who froze and did nothing to stop the slaughter.

On the basis of Friday night and his modest output in 2015, Gibbs probably deserves to be playing VFL this weekend. His kicking efficiency – usually a strength – stands at a substandard 49 per cent this year, and his possession rate has dropped. For whatever reason Gibbs has underwhelmed.

But if a portion of incensed Carlton fans want Malthouse to make Gibbs and/or other names a scapegoat to make a statement, they will almost certainly be disappointed. There will be changes, but statements are unlikely.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/carlton-blues/micks-way-gibbs-and-mates-will-avoid-axe-20150506-ggvsvw.html

Unfortunately, we don't have the depth to enable the coach or match committee (do we still have a match committee?) to make statements.  Another symptom/cause of our current malaise  :(

Can't see Thomas getting a gig, most likely not Menzel. Levi for Warnock.

Congrats to Graham who most likely gets the nod. Hopefully not the sub before going back to the twos as is Mick's usual MO.

If he does that again it will be the all time greatest pisstake in the history of the game.

I agree with the above article, on those figures Gibbs needs to be dropped. Unless he's injured there's just no excuse great enough (including lack of motivation) to forgive his start to the year.

Gibb's is looking like one of the players Judd mentioned who play well when a contract is coming up then drop off once the ink has dried.

If he does that again it will be the all time greatest pisstake in the history of the game.

I agree with the above article, on those figures Gibbs needs to be dropped. Unless he's injured there's just no excuse great enough (including lack of motivation) to forgive his start to the year.

Whilst I agree Gibbs was putrid (from all reports), it would be good if journos did some research. Gibbs Efficiency (According to AFL website)  is running at 60%, not 49%. Henderson actually laid a tackle (thats all he did) and there weren't half a dozen that didn't, the number was five, two being the ruck man (one of which is a witches hat). I am being picky but its all I got.

Jake Niall said this morning;

"There will be changes, but statements are unlikely."

Unfortunately, we don't have the depth to enable the coach or match committee (do we still have a match committee?) to make statements.  Another symptom/cause of our current malaise  :(

We also never had the balls to drop him and still don't. Where is the Gibbs we drafted? He would slaughter this bloke that runs out now. Should honestly have 20-30 less games next to his name. Bryce Gibbs is the definition of a wasted talent.

Still no Jamison and losing Henderson makes it slim pickings in the KP stocks.

I reckon Warnock has to go.
Whiley was like a deer in headlights last week. Send him back to the 2's and let him get his confidence back.
Send Curnow back to the 2's and tell him to work on his attacking side.

Keep whichever one of Menzel/Thomas are fittest and give the other one one more week off.

Cant drop Whiley after one game, thats not good coaching IMO especially in a year where development is more important
than ever...agree on Curnow.
Warnock should not have been selected in the Collingwood game...
Agree on the fittest of Thomas or Menzel, probably be the latter IMO..

We also never had the balls to drop him and still don't. Where is the Gibbs we drafted? He would slaughter this bloke that runs out now. Should honestly have 20-30 less games next to his name. Bryce Gibbs is the definition of a wasted talent.

But Gibbs won our B&F last season after too many years of being played out of position by previous coaches.  What has changed since last season?  Is he carrying an injury? 

Carlton

B: Zach Tuohy, Kristian Jaksch, Sam Rowe.
HB: Andrejs Everitt, Kade Simpson, Andrew Walker.
C: Sam Docherty, Chris Judd, Tom Bell.
HF: Dale Thomas, Levi Casboult, Dennis Armfield.
F: Bryce Gibbs, Liam Jones, Blaine Boekhorst.
Foll: Cameron Wood, Patrick Cripps, Marc Murphy.
I/C: Dylan Buckley, Ed Curnow, David Ellard, Nick Graham, Troy Menzel, Robert Warnock, Mark Whiley (Three to be omitted).

In:  Dale Thomas, Levi Casboult, Nick Graham, Troy Menzel.

Out: Lachie Henderson (Hamstring)

Brisbane Lions
B: Darcy Gardiner,  Justin Clarke, Jed Adcock.
HB: Mitch Golby, Marco Paparone, Tom Cutler.
C: Lewis Taylor, Dayne Beams, Tom Rockliff.
HF: Dayne Zorko, Daniel McStay, Allen Christensen.
F: Harris Andrews, Matthew Leuenberger, Josh Green.
Foll: Stefan Martin, Jack Redden, Daniel Rich.
I/C: James Aish, Mitch Robinson, Rohan Bewick, Claye Beams, Nick Robertson, Liam Dawson, Ryan Lester (Three to be omitted).

In: Matthew Leuenberger, James Aish, Liam Dawson, Ryan Lester.
Out:  Brent Staker (Hamstring).
New: Liam Dawson

I am amazed they named Rockliff. They would have to be insane to play him. It also makes a mockery of the tribunal decision to suspend May for so long. But that is another tale.

They are a team of no names, so they should do well against us.  :( :o

I am also surprised they named Daisy. I would have brought him back via the VFL. Maybe I am simply seeing him as last year's player, but I would have let him get a bit of form and fitness before sacrificing him. The same very much goes for Menzel. I would wait until he gets through a whole VFL game without any tight muscles at an absolute minimum. I'd much rather he find some form, but who am I to argue with our match committee?  >:D
To be honest, I'd almost start Gibbs off on the bench. I doubt he'll be dropped, although his form merits it. I would like to see Tuohy start in the midfield and use his strength and kicking. However, based on previous weeks I will probably be disappointed again.
 

We also never had the balls to drop him and still don't. Where is the Gibbs we drafted? He would slaughter this bloke that runs out now. Should honestly have 20-30 less games next to his name. Bryce Gibbs is the definition of a wasted talent.

The new Lawrence Angwin  ::). (I think that was his name)

In:  Dale Thomas, Levi Casboult, Nick Graham, Troy Menzel.

Out: Lachie Henderson (Hamstring)

The only thing I can deduce from those team changes is that Malthouse is purely coaching for a contract renewal, he doesn't have the club's best interests at heart.

Watson had a reasonable crack in the seconds and we know he can kick long & straight yet the Big Galoot gets a gig ahead of him. What chance does the guy have to show if he is worth keeping ??

If Gibbs can't be dropped for that lame-ass effort last week, then to what level does he have to stoop down to for it to ever happen ?? ******* protected species and a goddam disgraceful decision !!

We'll have some of the promising newbies wanting to leave soon enough, if they are putting in and not being rewarded for their effort then they will take their business elsewhere.

@ Sheik

Mick stated after the Judge's "rebuild" statement a few weeks ago that he would continue selecting what was thought to be the best side to win each game. He has not, to my knowledge, since made any statement to the contrary. He obviously thinks that winning is the  unit that will be used to measure his performance in order to determine a contract extension or not.

The only thing I can deduce from those team changes is that Malthouse is purely coaching for a contract renewal, he doesn't have the club's best interests at heart.

Watson had a reasonable crack in the seconds and we know he can kick long & straight yet the Big Galoot gets a gig ahead of him. What chance does the guy have to show if he is worth keeping ??

If Gibbs can't be dropped for that lame-ass effort last week, then to what level does he have to stoop down to for it to ever happen ?? ******* protected species and a goddam disgraceful decision !!

We'll have some of the promising newbies wanting to leave soon enough, if they are putting in and not being rewarded for their effort then they will take their business elsewhere.

Some of your best work lately, oh robed one  :)

The bloke is coaching for a future that doesn't exist for him. We all know what will end up happening. Amazing he's allowed to hang around and waster a season of rebuilding.

The bloke is coaching for a future that doesn't exist for him. We all know what will end up happening. Amazing he's allowed to hang around and waster a season of rebuilding.

Honestly Carrots, I don't reckon the club can afford the payout just yet. Cashflow is an issue and Luca Brasi  has committed to honouring the contract.


Don't forget, it's not just Old Powder Balls, it's all the deadwood he brought with him.

@ Sheik

Mick stated after the Judge's "rebuild" statement a few weeks ago that he would continue selecting what was thought to be the best side to win each game. He has not, to my knowledge, since made any statement to the contrary. He obviously thinks that winning is the  unit that will be used to measure his performance in order to determine a contract extension or not.

Surely if he picks players who have shown some form then he improves the chances of getting a win. Continually rewarding players who give little or nothing is not the way to go !! 

Surely if he picks players who have shown some form then he improves the chances of getting a win. Continually rewarding players who give little or nothing is not the way to go !!

I'm just stating that he claims that he's committed, along with the MC, to selecting the team most likely in their judgement to win the forthcoming game.

I just don't know how he's evaluating the performance of individuals and how he's balancing form versus player experience/talent in working out the likelihood of how each might perform in the next game. I guess he's currently thinking that the guys he's retaining are more likely to improve and get a win than any available atm to bring in from the NBs - says very little about the quality of our depth atm, or at least his confidence in it. I guess also that the more games we may lose the more likely it becomes that he will eventually roll the dice and opt try others as replacements.

We will win by 100 points.

We will win by 100 points.

Could well be a blowout - we would surely be a lot more psyched up for this than the Lions?

Fev for the weekend?

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/former-carlton-forward-brendan-fevola-in-demand-as-gun-for-hire-in-local-football-leagues-across-australia/story-e6frf33l-1227342408217 (http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/former-carlton-forward-brendan-fevola-in-demand-as-gun-for-hire-in-local-football-leagues-across-australia/story-e6frf33l-1227342408217)

The only thing I can deduce from those team changes is that Malthouse is purely coaching for a contract renewal, he doesn't have the club's best interests at heart.

Watson had a reasonable crack in the seconds and we know he can kick long & straight yet the Big Galoot gets a gig ahead of him. What chance does the guy have to show if he is worth keeping ??

If Gibbs can't be dropped for that lame-ass effort last week, then to what level does he have to stoop down to for it to ever happen ?? ******* protected species and a goddam disgraceful decision !!

We'll have some of the promising newbies wanting to leave soon enough, if they are putting in and not being rewarded for their effort then they will take their business elsewhere.

Fork tongue stuff again. MM says out of form blokes won't get a gig in this side... yet good old jelly spine Gibbs gets to play despite appalling softness and being a terrible liability.

We will win by 100 points.

If we did what does that mean?
In some respects that's probably the kind of result we don't want....as we've seen before that kind of result just confuses and masks the real situation.
Folk say..... "look they can do it when they want to".
"Things aren't as bad as they seem".
"We could be Brisbane"

What I'd like to see is a close affair with us showing some signs of intensity, character.... and actually caring enough, to push us over the line.

I just feel that if the club knows that MM wont be here we are just wasting valuable time with him at the helm. Logudice has really backed us into a corner with his comment re Malthouse coaching out the year, it certainly hasn't stopped the speculation surrounding his job and it was foolish to think it would. Only wins stop speculation.

I just feel that if the club knows that MM wont be here we are just wasting valuable time with him at the helm. Logudice has really backed us into a corner with his comment re Malthouse coaching out the year, it certainly hasn't stopped the speculation surrounding his job and it was foolish to think it would. Only wins stop speculation.

The problem with making the change now though, is that we then have a coach who...

-Won't be the senior coach next year, so anything he does differently will then have to be redone.
-May (likely to) get us a few wins and an improved effort...you know what happens then. We sign that bloke up on a three year contract without following due process once again.

On the other hand what do we have to lose by seeing this season out with Mick.
 
Membership is no longer an issue...that's basically done and dusted for the year.
On field we are at as low a level of performance as we've been since the Pagan years.
We can't get much worse there.

Much better to just let it go for this year and start with a completely fresh approach for 2016.
Hopefully that's not just at the coaching level.

The thing that really annoys me is that we're saying these things after round 5
Round screwing five!

Much better to just let it go for this year and start with a completely fresh approach for 2016.
Hopefully that's not just at the coaching level.

I agree. Let' not make things over-complicated. Just see how things actually pan out and make our calls based on how things stand at season's end. Sacking the coach lets everyone else off the hook IMO. I wan't to see who's got the right stuff and who hasn't.

The problem with making the change now though, is that we then have a coach who...

-Won't be the senior coach next year, so anything he does differently will then have to be redone.
-May (likely to) get us a few wins and an improved effort...you know what happens then. We sign that bloke up on a three year contract without following due process once again.

On the other hand what do we have to lose by seeing this season out with Mick.
 
Membership is no longer an issue...that's basically done and dusted for the year.
On field we are at as low a level of performance as we've been since the Pagan years.
We can't get much worse there.

Much better to just let it go for this year and start with a completely fresh approach for 2016.
Hopefully that's not just at the coaching level.

The thing that really annoys me is that we're saying these things after round 5
Round screwing five!

You missed something too here Lods.

As unlikely as it is to occur, we may very well turn our season around and finish off playing finals.

As you say, its round 5.  It doesnt help that we are currently 1-4, but if we started playing some half decent football and hit targets for a change, we could conceivably end up with 10 wins for the season.

Malthouse appears to be trying to build the mentality of aiming for the stars, and if you fall short and hit the sky that's a better outcome than just putting the cue in the rack.

To be honest, that is more of what we need than any other tanking for draft picks.  what message are we sending our group when the answer is lose on purpose, get the draft pick that will likely see you out of the club, and/or replaced by that youngster coming into the system.

The problem with making the change now though, is that we then have a coach who...

-Won't be the senior coach next year, so anything he does differently will then have to be redone.
-May (likely to) get us a few wins and an improved effort...you know what happens then. We sign that bloke up on a three year contract without following due process once again.

On the other hand what do we have to lose by seeing this season out with Mick.
 
Membership is no longer an issue...that's basically done and dusted for the year.
On field we are at as low a level of performance as we've been since the Pagan years.
We can't get much worse there.

Much better to just let it go for this year and start with a completely fresh approach for 2016.
Hopefully that's not just at the coaching level.

The thing that really annoys me is that we're saying these things after round 5
Round screwing five!

2 seasons and 5 rounds...

@ Thryleon
There is no way to sugar coat this. After all the positive hype in the off season, this group seemed to crumble under the expectation after qtr time of the Richmond game and have not recovered. The season was over then and there. Dont look at the NZ game, Upper Kumbuckta West could have beaten the Saints that day.  Make no mistake, 2015 is a write off and there is more turmoil to come at seasons end rest assured. Sunday could get ugly, Monday might be even uglier.

@ Thryleon
There is no way to sugar coat this. After all the positive hype in the off season, this group seemed to crumble under the expectation after qtr time of the Richmond game and have not recovered. The season was over then and there. Dont look at the NZ game, Upper Kumbuckta West could have beaten the Saints that day.  Make no mistake, 2015 is a write off and there is more turmoil to come at seasons end rest assured. Sunday could get ugly, Monday might be even uglier.

I'm not trying to sugar coat it, but I just don't see the point in giving up, less than a quarter into a season.  One quarter in and we are talking rebuilds, tanking, draft picks, because our club has shown that they don't believe in Malthouse, or the Boys to win, and then we want them to turn around and play like Gladiators?


I want our boys to believe.
I want them to believe that they could be good enough.
I want them to believe that they will go out there and actually compete hard.
I want them to believe that they can win.
I want them to believe, that they could conceivably go out there and win the rest of their games, and win a forking flag.
It's 21 vs 21 with a sub each.  A bit of luck and we can win most weeks provided the team plays with the requisite ability to hit targets, and play football for each other.

We have only lost 4 games for the year.

Premiership teams have lost more for the year and still won the flag.

It would take a change of attitude and execution of 180 degrees to achieve it, but we all can agree that 90% of that appears to be in the players minds and our club collectively having given up on season 2015 is not what I want to see from any level of our leadership which is Mark Lo Giudice's first major stuff up as president of our footy club, and Stephen Trigg's too.

The only good thing about it, is that the players now have the ability to play with absolutely no pressure on them.  Which should yield better results, but on this occasion is not, which does mean that they care about being written off and might not be happy about it.

I'm not trying to sugar coat it, but I just don't see the point in giving up, less than a quarter into a season.  One quarter in and we are talking rebuilds, tanking, draft picks, because our club has shown that they don't believe in Malthouse, or the Boys to win, and then we want them to turn around and play like Gladiators?


I want our boys to believe.
I want them to believe that they could be good enough.
I want them to believe that they will go out there and actually compete hard.
I want them to believe that they can win.
I want them to believe, that they could conceivably go out there and win the rest of their games, and win a forking flag.
It's 21 vs 21 with a sub each.  A bit of luck and we can win most weeks provided the team plays with the requisite ability to hit targets, and play football for each other.

We have only lost 4 games for the year.

Premiership teams have lost more for the year and still won the flag.

It would take a change of attitude and execution of 180 degrees to achieve it, but we all can agree that 90% of that appears to be in the players minds and our club collectively having given up on season 2015 is not what I want to see from any level of our leadership which is Mark Lo Giudice's first major stuff up as president of our footy club, and Stephen Trigg's too.

The only good thing about it, is that the players now have the ability to play with absolutely no pressure on them.  Which should yield better results, but on this occasion is not, which does mean that they care about being written off and might not be happy about it.

I didnt mean you were trying to sugarcoat it, I meant I wasnt going to sugar coat it. Ahh never mind...

Ahh right you are.

Apologies, Im very frustrated with this football team at the moment, and sure the coach might play a part, but they are dead set going through the motions, and that is completely inexcusable for a team that is supposed to go out to win matches every week.

Its pathetic.

I want our boys to believe.
I want them to believe that they could be good enough.
I want them to believe that they will go out there and actually compete hard.
I want them to believe that they can win.
I want them to believe, that they could conceivably go out there and win the rest of their games, and win a forking flag.
It's 21 vs 21 with a sub each.  A bit of luck and we can win most weeks provided the team plays with the requisite ability to hit targets, and play football for each other.

(http://clipart.toonarific.com/data/media/75/peterpan001.gif)

On the other hand what do we have to lose by seeing this season out with Mick.

I read the rest of your post mate but this comment stood out. What we have to lose is getting 15+ games into blokes like Watson and Graham and any other kid we have on the list, because Mick doesn't want to play them.

Carlton

B: Zach Tuohy, Kristian Jaksch, Sam Rowe.
HB: Andrejs Everitt, Kade Simpson, Andrew Walker.
C: Sam Docherty, Chris Judd, Tom Bell.
HF: Dale Thomas, Levi Casboult, Dennis Armfield.
F: Bryce Gibbs, Liam Jones, Blaine Boekhorst.
Foll: Cameron Wood, Patrick Cripps, Marc Murphy.
I/C: Dylan Buckley, Ed Curnow, David Ellard, Nick Graham, Troy Menzel, Robert Warnock, Mark Whiley (Three to be omitted).

If all fit I'd be cutting from that extended bench - Curnow, Ellard and Warnock. Play the younger blokes for while now IMHO!

I read the rest of your post mate but this comment stood out. What we have to lose is getting 15+ games into blokes like Watson and Graham and any other kid we have on the list, because Mick doesn't want to play them.

Possibly
But there's no guarantee a new coach would play them either.
It has to be a balance between the harm of a mid-season change that really doesn't address the major issues at the club and the damage that can be done  by not doing anything in the short term.

If we have an interim coach who actually gets an improvement out of the side it lets other folk off the hook.
It sets that coach up to take over without due process again....and the circle continues.

We need to break that in a dramatic fashion.
Just replacing the coach now won't accomplish that.
Been there, done that.

Carlton

B: Zach Tuohy, Kristian Jaksch, Sam Rowe.
HB: Andrejs Everitt, Kade Simpson, Andrew Walker.
C: Sam Docherty, Chris Judd, Tom Bell.
HF: Dale Thomas, Levi Casboult, Dennis Armfield.
F: Bryce Gibbs, Liam Jones, Blaine Boekhorst.
Foll: Cameron Wood, Patrick Cripps, Marc Murphy.
I/C: Dylan Buckley, Ed Curnow, David Ellard, Nick Graham, Troy Menzel, Robert Warnock, Mark Whiley (Three to be omitted).

If all fit I'd be cutting from that extended bench - Curnow, Ellard and Warnock. Play the younger blokes for while now IMHO!

x2

x2

x3

(http://clipart.toonarific.com/data/media/75/peterpan001.gif)

LOL  ;D

Possibly
But there's no guarantee a new coach would play them either.
It has to be a balance between the harm of a mid-season change that really doesn't address the major issues at the club and the damage that can be done  by not doing anything in the short term.

If we have an interim coach who actually gets an improvement out of the side it lets other folk off the hook.
It sets that coach up to take over without due process again....and the circle continues.

We need to break that in a dramatic fashion.
Just replacing the coach now won't accomplish that.
Been there, done that.

Even more importantly, why are they not playing?

We can say its a personality thing, but it might have more to do with other reasons than we are not privy to.

We appoint a different coach, he plays them ignoring those defects, and the "line in the sand" of acceptibility we have drawn needs to be re-drawn also, except next time it might be a Patrick Cripps thats annoyed, and off he goes at the end of his contract.

There is more than just the here and now at stake and the next 15 games, the club is at a real tipping point and needs to get serious, a little bit like the response I have seen regarding what I state above about belief.

The core of that post, was with the club already pulling up stumps on 2015, how can the players be expected not to?  Then we have a coach dead man walking.  This season is panning out with some people's desired results, which is fine, but the how it unfolds is very worrying.

Carlton

B: Zach Tuohy, Kristian Jaksch, Sam Rowe.
HB: Andrejs Everitt, Kade Simpson, Andrew Walker.
C: Sam Docherty, Chris Judd, Tom Bell.
HF: Dale Thomas, Levi Casboult, Dennis Armfield.
F: Bryce Gibbs, Liam Jones, Blaine Boekhorst.
Foll: Cameron Wood, Patrick Cripps, Marc Murphy.
I/C: Dylan Buckley, Ed Curnow, David Ellard, Nick Graham, Troy Menzel, Robert Warnock, Mark Whiley (Three to be omitted).

If all fit I'd be cutting from that extended bench - Curnow, Ellard and Warnock. Play the younger blokes for while now IMHO!

Finalised In Thomas Graham Casboult Out Henderson Warnock Ellard

The fact that Warnock is out just confirms the stuff last week at the selection table re he & Casboult . Can't believe they bought Warnock in, shaking my head. That's twice a simple decision by the MC has put us behind before the first bounce

Daisy sub you'd think. If he plays

I read the rest of your post mate but this comment stood out. What we have to lose is getting 15+ games into blokes like Watson and Graham and any other kid we have on the list, because Mick doesn't want to play them.

What side have you been watching week in week out?

Debutants for carlton this year.
Jones
Tutt
Wiley
Jaksch
Smith
Boekhurst
Byrne

Other kids who have got games include...
Cripps
Buckley
Menzel

It is only round 5, but Mick 'doesn't play the kids'.

I'm talking about blokes like Ellard, Army and Rowe playing ahead of Graham and Watto. I've been pretty clear about that. Tutt and Jones are certainly not kids.

Good changes, make sense. Fine that Graham gets an opportunity and may he make the most of it. Good to see Whiley get another crack. It shows that he is being backed and having a chance to go again. Good selection.

More broadly, the playing of all the youngsters, ready or not would be destructive. We should be trying to win every game by putting the best team on the field every week. Players should be dropped for reasons they can understand, and then only elevated when they have demonstrated that they have addressed the previous identified deficiencies. To give a player a go without meeting these requirements sets low expectations and double standards.

Anything other than this basic principle is folly. This is why picking Watson for example does not stack up. He has not demonstrated in the VFL the requirements to be elevated.

Carlton have been confused about this for years. It goes as far back as Gibbs and Murphy playing senior footy right away in their first year. We were terrible then, and it made sense for them to play. But longer term it has had a negative effect, in that it set low expectations for selection. Gibbs being annointed part of the leadership group in his first year heightened the entitlement.

Pick the best team each week. As you would if you were competing for a premiership.

We finally dropped Ellard, thank heavens.
I would have preferred Menzel to Graham for his scoring ability but Graham played well in the VFL so it's fair enough he gets a game, we should win this one comfortably.
It looks like Warnock is done and dusted if he can't force Wood out of the side.

I'm talking about blokes like Ellard, Army and Rowe playing ahead of Graham and Watto. I've been pretty clear about that. Tutt and Jones are certainly not kids.

Now you're being naughty. Watson ahead of Rowe...??? You're taking the p1ss, right? Armfield has deserved his selection ahead of others owing to consistent good form and our desperate need for quick blokes! Agree that Ellard should not get a game ahead of Graham.

I'm talking about blokes like Ellard, Army and Rowe playing ahead of Graham and Watto. I've been pretty clear about that. Tutt and Jones are certainly not kids.

Oh, and i forgot Dick.

Jones and Tutt are only 1 year older than Watson.

Mick has played more players than any other coach this season. 33. But because he hasn't played a select 2, you complain about him coaching for his career. FMD.

BTW carrots, the bloke 'coaching for his career' dropped ellard and brought in Graham....that makes 34 players used.

Where did I say coaching for his career?

I read the rest of your post mate but this comment stood out. What we have to lose is getting 15+ games into blokes like Watson and Graham and any other kid we have on the list, because Mick doesn't want to play them.

Where did I say coaching for his career?

Not in that post, in others.

Mick is too selfish and will pick a side thats in his best interests, rather than the clubs and he wont play the kids etc.

Nah pretty sure I've just said the old man has lost it and isn't coaching us well. If you sniff deep enough you never know you may find something.

The fact that Warnock is out just confirms the stuff last week at the selection table re he & Casboult . Can't believe they bought Warnock in, shaking my head. That's twice a simple decision by the MC has put us behind before the first bounce

I didn't like it, my mum didn't like it and the bloke I've sat next to for the last 10 years didn't like it.

If we didn't have Carrot's we would have to invent him. Reading through this he brings out the best in a number of posters. ;D

Sunday May 10
Carlton v Brisbane Lions, Etihad Stadium, 3.20pm AEST

Carlton
In: D.Thomas, N.Graham, L.Casboult
Out: L.Henderson (hamstring), D.Ellard, R.Warnock

Brisbane Lions
In: M.Leuenberger, R.Lester
Out: B.Staker (hamstring), R.Bewick

I am glad Menzel isn't playing. he needs to be getting game time and confidence. Nick Graham deserves a go. Maybe we'll play him as a small forward. Can't do worse than Ellard has of recent weeks. I am a bit surprised we dropped Warnock. He rucked quite well for most of the game last week. But with Casboult back I guess the MC thought we would be top heavy.
As for Daisy, I hope he is 100%. I would have brought him back via the VFL. He is a risk.

Simpson is a late withdrawal and his place in the team has been taken by Clem Smith.

Named at CHB no less

Simpson is a late withdrawal and his place in the team has been taken by Clem Smith.

Do we really want to win this game? Smith was named on the bench for the Northern Blues, not in the best players. My God!

Gets frustrating when you click on '2015-Round 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (preview) thread and the last 2 pages are off topic!!!

Gets frustrating when you click on '2015-Round 6 Carlton vs Brisbane (preview) thread and the last 2 pages are off topic!!!

Agree.  Has been happening a lot lately.  Mods need to reel it in 

Its not only on this thread. Every thread turns into a Ratten vs Mick discussion. 

Do we really want to win this game? Smith was named on the bench for the Northern Blues, not in the best players. My God!

Surely we have someone better suited to replace Simmo? What's happened to him anyway?
Maybe Smith will take Ellards spot and Daisy to take Simmos role?

Do we really want to win this game? Smith was named on the bench for the Northern Blues, not in the best players. My God!

Ditto, Captain Crash.

I was astonished to see Smith replacing Simmo.... and straight into the selected side, no less. FO. I pray this is not an MM fave getting a gig ahead of hard working others... would have expected Dick, or Holman, or Johnson etc into the green vest instead of Smith straight into the side.

Is Smith really in the 22?  I haven't seen anything official.

It's quite odd that he has leapfrogged the emergencies and it's not exactly a like for like replacement.  Perhaps there's a particular match up for him but I suspect that he will be the sub.

Yep, mystified why we recruited the "mature" players such as Dick when a first year player requiring endurance work gets a gig.  That said, the ball will be on the deck a lot today with the persistent rain and those who want it most will get it.

As others have opined, it must be to replace Ellard with the side rejigged, surely he can't play across half back?

  That said, the ball will be on the deck a lot today with the persistent rain

One word response: Etihad

One word response: Etihad

 :)

Is Smith really in the 22?  I haven't seen anything official.

It's quite odd that he has leapfrogged the emergencies and it's not exactly a like for like replacement.  Perhaps there's a particular match up for him but I suspect that he will be the sub.

At least if Smith is the sub my man Nick Graham will get a proper crack at it.

Yep, mystified why we recruited the "mature" players such as Dick when a first year player requiring endurance work gets a gig.  That said, the ball will be on the deck a lot today with the persistent rain and those who want it most will get it.

As others have opined, it must be to replace Ellard with the side rejigged, surely he can't play across half back?

I reckon we had a bet each way with the mature recruits and thankfully they saw fit to recruit a couple of mature bodies because we have seen what happens when you try and build with draft picks and young players.

It's conceivable that we lose Simpson, Judd, Carrazzo, Jamison and Walker this year to go with any traded players we ship off.

Think about where that leaves us.

Smith is probably getting a game as a function of his attitude. He might be the only youngster who actually wants to be here today and will actually kill himself on the park.

Has anyone actually seen any conformation of Simpson out for Smith?

The only place i've seen that was from a post from the sheik.

Has anyone actually seen any conformation of Simpson out for Smith?

The only place i've seen that was from a post from the sheik.

It's on the club website as part of the final team list.

Has anyone actually seen any conformation of Simpson out for Smith?

The only place i've seen that was from a post from the sheik.

http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2015/6/carl-v-bl..

Check out team lineups, Smith is CHB and Simpson out injured..

Cheers

Still bamboozled. Fair bit of pressure on Smith now to have a blinder to justify his 'jumping the queue'.

http://www.afl.com.au/match-centre/2015/6/carl-v-bl..

Check out team lineups, Smith is CHB and Simpson out injured..

I'm just surprised we haven't also brought in Tutt .................at FF.  ;D

I'm just surprised we haven't also brought in Tutt .................at FF.  ;D

Now you're just being rediculous Cookie  ;)

Honestly, nothing would surprise me when it comes to our team selection  :(

Smith will be the sub surely.

I'm just wondering who is going to kick our goals ???

Super worried about this game. With the other upsets that have gone down this weekend I am not at all confident.

Really hoping for a good performance this afternoon.
I'm sick of poor results.
It be great to see them attack the game with a bit of intensity and give themselves a feeling of what it's like to do things well, and the success that can be gained with a bit of effort.

They're a better group of individuals than what they're showing.
Hopefully they have the nous to combine that individuality into a solid team performance.
 
Just win it