All ready for tomorrow.
I am too old to be a Blues supporter. Very bad for my heart!
Found the right spot on the Monopoly Board and got the "get out of jail free" card. Nice to be able to win in any difficult circumstance.
The belief this group has, provides a massive advantage
I am too old to be a Blues supporter. Very bad for my heart!
If you survived last years finals, you'll be ok.
I just about blew a gasket. CARNA BLUE BAGGERS!!!!!
Fog will get suspended but he could have hospitalized Fyfe, he kept his spoil lower than it could have been...
Fog will get suspended but he could have hospitalized Fyfe, he kept his spoil lower than it could have been...
Fog will go and can't really argue much to save himself.
Having said that, i had the thought watching the replay of that which i don't know if the AFL has thought through.
Players are supposed to have duty of care and not hurt their opposition. So if Fog watches the ball and jumps at it and takes fyfes head off, he can be suspended due to lack of duty of care.
If Fog doesn't want to do that, takes his eye off the ball to see where Fyfe is and makes contact, he gets done for taking his eyes off the ball.
He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
What do the AFL want him to do??
Now, of course how he went about it was wrong, but if instead of extending his arm, he did what peter wright did and tried to take a chest mark while watching the ball....would it have mattered?
Finding different ways to win in different situations. They're the signs that warm the heart. Albeit following 7/8 heart stoppers 🥵
It will be interesting to see if other sides adopt some of the smothering/stifling tactics against us that Freo employed today.
It will be interesting to see if other sides are capable of it. ;) :D
They worked harder and wanted it more...but in the end they lost.
I suspect they will be seething.
Should be a tough game next time we play them.
The umpiring evened itself out in the end so we shouldn't dwell too much on that.
Dunno what to make of that other than the "never say die" attitude the team. Credit to them. If I had to put my life in the hands of a Carlton player to kick a goal to save, I reckon Cotters would be the one.
TDK was terrible early but then got going late in the first qtr and I reckon (to my eye at least) he kept us in it.
Some very flat looking players out there today, Freo going 1 on 1 didn't suit us and we didn't cope. Having said that, we didn't get blown out of the water and hung in there an won. 4 pts is 4 pts I guess.
Go Blues.
Just alot of character and experience now.
It will be interesting to see if other sides adopt some of the smothering/stifling tactics against us that Freo employed today.
It will be interesting to see if other sides are capable of it. ;) :D
They worked harder and wanted it more...but in the end they lost.
I suspect they will be seething.
Should be a tough game next time we play them.
The umpiring evened itself out in the end so we shouldn't dwell too much on that.
If Freo couldn't do it, i'm not sure if any other team can......but let them try.
If Walsh played we would have smashed them. He was the missing ingredient today.
Got smashed at the clearances and thought our stoppage work was very average.....Jackson vs TDK was probably a draw.
We never paid much attention to Brayshaw and Clark who I thought were damaging but I felt our forward line with Charlie and the very handy Matt's ..Cottrell and Kennedy took their chances unlike Freo whose tall forwards were well beaten and didnt disappoint me in terms of being the spuds I thought they were.
Freo play a stifling crap brand imo and make it a grind and low scoring affair playing keepings off and hoping to wear you down.
Thought it was a good win given we didnt play well but did the big moments better than they did.
Fogarty will probably get a months holiday for his hit on Fyfe but with Walsh, Martin and Motlop due back it wont affect us too much and Id expect a better result vs the Crows in the next game. Fantasia didnt do a lot and either did Durdin but the latter's tackle work was good and with Fogarty missing I think Durdin might retain a spot in the 23.
To win like this, at a place where we haven't won since 1972, was magic!
Fremantle had a good plan for us and nearly pulled it off, credit to them. We need to be better when teams play "keep things off" against us. Freo exposed our archilles heal also, lack of pace through the midfield. When the game is played on our terms, we get away with it but I believe we need another line breaker or 2 in the team. Finally, the umps had a poor game and too much influence on the game. If someone can explain to me the difference between the holding the balls decisions that went against us and resulted in goals to Freo and the numerous others exactly the same that are let go, you are a better man than me.
We had more inside 50s, more scoring shots and 6 of their 9 goals were from frees but yeah they dominated lol.
Yes lucky to win, but boys persevered and had that late momentum. Great courage and endeavour by Zac Williams to drive that ball into Charlie Curnow for his crucial late goal.
What a change to be travelling in a train of mainly Carlton supporters. No-one hissing either :)
Then at the game wow, huge supporter numbers
When Freeo took the ball out on the Eastern wing, they usually had a paddock to work in. We need some outside runners badly!
cheers Ab
Got smashed at the clearances and thought our stoppage work was very average.....Jackson vs TDK was probably a draw.
We never paid much attention to Brayshaw and Clark who I thought were damaging but I felt our forward line with Charlie and the very handy Matt's ..Cottrell and Kennedy took their chances unlike Freo whose tall forwards were well beaten and didnt disappoint me in terms of being the spuds I thought they were.
Freo play a stifling crap brand imo and make it a grind and low scoring affair playing keepings off and hoping to wear you down.
Thought it was a good win given we didnt play well but did the big moments better than they did.
Fogarty will probably get a months holiday for his hit on Fyfe but with Walsh, Martin and Motlop due back it wont affect us too much and Id expect a better result vs the Crows in the next game. Fantasia didnt do a lot and either did Durdin but the latter's tackle work was good and with Fogarty missing I think Durdin might retain a spot in the 23.
8 tackles from Durdin might indeed save his bacon for a week. Still doesn't do enough for mine. Freo played 1 on 1 and strangled our running game but created plenty of run and space for themselves. Voss will need to work on combatting that because all the teams will now try that against us. If not for poor umpiring at then (the kick was shown to brush Aish's arm before the Cottrell mark), we probably would have lost. Not sure if Fog will go for that, it hit Fyfe in the neck so a free kick is probably about right. We'll see what Chooklotto MRO brings us.
If Kemp gets dropped for Marchy I will spew
If Kemp gets dropped for Marchy I will spew
Kamp did a good job and should keep his spot. Marchbank needs game time, preferably in the VFL. When he is fit and confident, we can reconsider the issue.
I stll find it a bit 'bizarre' that a side that was pretty disciplined for 99% of the game lost that discipline in the last minute.
I don't mind 'bizarre' ;) :D
I find it disingenuous and simply wrong to see our win labelled as a 'steal', or 'controversial' or 'ridiculous'...
Yes, Freo did compress us and play extremely well. However, we did have more inside 50s (narrowly) and 5 more shots on goal, and Freo did get six goals from frees (most there but a couple were not).
Nothing controversial or wrong with our last two goals. Undisciplined actions from a couple of Freo players gave the umpires no alternative other than awarding the two frees resulting in the last goal. All players know that abusing an umpire, and vehemently questioning a decision will get you nowhere, or worse. As Longmuir admitted in his media conference, we are a well drilled side and you cannot give us any chance.
Yes, Freo seemed the better side, narrowly, for most of the game... but we would not go away - character.
I find it disingenuous and simply wrong to see our win labelled as a 'steal', or 'controversial' or 'ridiculous'...
Yes, Freo did compress us and play extremely well. However, we did have more inside 50s (narrowly) and 5 more shots on goal, and Freo did get six goals from frees (most there but a couple were not).
Nothing controversial or wrong with our last two goals. Undisciplined actions from a couple of Freo players gave the umpires no alternative other than awarding the two frees resulting in the last goal. All players know that abusing an umpire, and vehemently questioning a decision will get you nowhere, or worse. As Longmuir admitted in his media conference, we are a well drilled side and you cannot give us any chance.
Yes, Freo seemed the better side, narrowly, for most of the game... but we would not go away - character.
There is footage from up the ground taken from a phone that shows the ball deflect off Aish's upper arm. In any case, as you said a couple of their 6 frees resulting in goals from the top of the square (the Kemp one I recall) were flat out wrong. We gave away a couple of silly ones trying to take on the tackler deep in defence so they were there. They could not have played any better and we pretty much stayed with them all day. Did we steal the win? Probably. Swings and roundabouts.
It was a sea saw match and goals often came against the run of play.
They controlled the first term.
We controlled the 2nd.
We controlled the start of the 3rd, they controlled the end of the 3rd.
In the 4th we started well then they took over then we went all out attack at the end to win.
Ugly, different, scrappy, lucky, narrow, against the tide. No matter what you call it, or how you saw it. A win is a win. Bank the 4 points. Keep practising closing out scenarios. Celebrate the win and congratulate your opponents for a good game.
No more. No less.
Good sides find a way to win. That's what our boys are doing.
Big shout out to Weiters-and Williams-- welcome back to form. Also to the Matts. For finding 5 (?) goals when goals were scarce 👏🏼
Apparently Clark called the umpire a "cheat" which if true, is a massive no-no which prompted the double free-kick. Going on past performances, Clark could face the tribunal as well for that, they normally frown on that behaviour very strongly.
The mark to Cottrell .......... it would have been very hard not to pay it based on the fact it "may" have grazed Aish's arm or hair, I reckon that happens 100 times in a match and if the umpire does not have a clear view of it then they have no chance of calling it.
As for Kennedy's free kick, Johnson pulled his jumper, it was as clear as day and warranted a free kick. Every week I see Curnow & McKay get their jumpers pulled in an attempt to impede their run at the ball and the umpires miss it.
Added to that, I see jumper grabbing all around the ground in all games, especially the ruck, yet they either miss them or conveniently let them go.
I'd like to see a strong & consistent clampdown on all jumper grabbing (forwards, mids, taggers, rucks & defenders), they have been far too lenient in this area which has lead to the ongoing conjecture of how & when they get paid.
I feel for Freo, they played very well and IMO, were the better team overall but it may have been only a brain-fade at the death that cost them the match.
Under the 90s match ratio method of deciding ladder position we are on top. Only sides above us have played one more game and had a loss.
Fogarty case will be interesting, the interchange side view shows him punching the footy and seemingly making contact with Fyfe's right arm or the footy first, but then Fogarty's left arm / fingers hit Fyfe in the throat.
The media are doing it's best to hang Fogarty and pump up the controversy by showing the blindside view, which makes it looks like Fogarty's right fist hits Fyfe.
(https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6780.0;attach=1473)
There is footage from up the ground taken from a phone that shows the ball deflect off Aish's upper arm. In any case, as you said a couple of their 6 frees resulting in goals from the top of the square (the Kemp one I recall) were flat out wrong. We gave away a couple of silly ones trying to take on the tackler deep in defence so they were there. They could not have played any better and we pretty much stayed with them all day. Did we steal the win? Probably. Swings and roundabouts.
I'm not sure that you could rely on phone camera footage from the length of the ground. The Freo players were claiming that the ball touched Aish's head, Fyfe claimed that he had touched the ball off George's boot and the TV commentators thought that the ball could have brushed Aish's hair. Either way, umpires often miss touched balls that are more obvious than that one and it goes some way towards making up for some of the dodgy frees Freo got.
The thing is that we kept our numbers around the contest while Freo players were waiting for a handball receive and left Fyfe trying to beat four players. Cripps did what he so often does and Williams capped it off with a touch of brilliance and daring and an equally brilliant effort from Charlie to mark and goal. Then, after two drawn ball ups, Cripps sent De Koning away and sucked Jackson into an attacking hitout that ended up with Hewett - game over! Cottrell's fundamental forward work - play in front - was critical too. You make your own luck in footy!
I'm not sure that you could rely on phone camera footage from the length of the ground. The Freo players were claiming that the ball touched Aish's head, Fyfe claimed that he had touched the ball off George's boot and the TV commentators thought that the ball could have brushed Aish's hair. Either way, umpires often miss touched balls that are more obvious than that one and it goes some way towards making up for some of the dodgy frees Freo got.
Agreed, stuff like that is missed all the time, players can barely hear each other shouting let along for an umpire to detect a snick of the footy in real-time play, it happens all the time. btw., The Freo protest is valid, in the 4K x 100Hz slow motion it shows the ball flick Aish's bicep which ripples from the contact, and it also possibly flicks his hair but that could well be the breeze as the pill flys past.
Are we really going to expect umpires to detect that sort of incidental contact?
Regardless, to then stupidly abuse the umpire you get what you deserve.
There is footage from up the ground taken from a phone that shows the ball deflect off Aish's upper arm. In any case, as you said a couple of their 6 frees resulting in goals from the top of the square (the Kemp one I recall) were flat out wrong. We gave away a couple of silly ones trying to take on the tackler deep in defence so they were there. They could not have played any better and we pretty much stayed with them all day. Did we steal the win? Probably. Swings and roundabouts.
I don't think we 'stole' it. When push came to shove at the death knell, the more disciplined side won. In the final analysis, both sides were very disciplined, just one a whisker more than the other... or... one just a whisker less at a critical stage.
I'm not sure that you could rely on phone camera footage from the length of the ground. The Freo players were claiming that the ball touched Aish's head, Fyfe claimed that he had touched the ball off George's boot and the TV commentators thought that the ball could have brushed Aish's hair. Either way, umpires often miss touched balls that are more obvious than that one and it goes some way towards making up for some of the dodgy frees Freo got.
The thing is that we kept our numbers around the contest while Freo players were waiting for a handball receive and left Fyfe trying to beat four players. Cripps did what he so often does and Williams capped it off with a touch of brilliance and daring and an equally brilliant effort from Charlie to mark and goal. Then, after two drawn ball ups, Cripps sent De Koning away and sucked Jackson into an attacking hitout that ended up with Hewett - game over! Cottrell's fundamental forward work - play in front - was critical too. You make your own luck in footy!
I'm more than comfortable in calling a spade a spade with the benefit of hindsight (replays that are official or otherwise) and say it was touched (on Aish's arm). Having said that, there is no way in hell an umpire would see that or call it so play on was the correct call. As for calling the ump a cheat, if true you're gone for dissent every day of the week and twice on Sundays so fair call for that also.
I don't think we 'stole' it. When push came to shove at the death knell, the more disciplined side won. In the final analysis, both sides were very disciplined, just one a whisker more than the other... or... one just a whisker less at a critical stage.
Call it whatever you want mate, in my book when you lead for only 12min 53s and the other mob has led for 94min 43s, you've stolen it. But its a good thing, it shows character (the right stuff).
You often see the ball brush a hand or arm of a player then is marked properly by their opponent, everyone accepts thats a mark around the ground, we only have this hoo haa because of the state of the game and the resulting goal.
Freo lost the game fair and square and only have themselves to blame, as others have said they were probably the better team on the day and its stings losing like that but good teams find a way to win and non contenders like Freo find ways to lose.
Firstly, Freo played very well, secondly Carlton did not give up, thirdly if the game is going to be determined by whether a ball brushed the hair of a defender or not then the Tommy Alvin hair style must become compulsory for back men, and finally the Freo players gave up and clearly didn't believe they could win the centre clearance and win the game and that is why they lost. Winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose.
TDK clearly beat Jackson, for all the possessions the Freo midfield accumulated they never really dominated the game and Carlton can get better but I am not sure Freo can.
It is becoming a wild ride to follow Carlton atm but the never say die was a hallmark of the Barassi and Jezza sides of the 60's and 70's. This could become the trademark of the Voss side.
non contenders like Freo find ways to lose.
And haven't we been guilty of that over the years, it's so pleasing that we are finding was to win as opposed to finding ways to lose.
The umps got one wrong?? That's football folks. Can't review every decision.
As for the Fog incident, I no longer think it can be a fine after looking at the criteria, he will miss a week or 2.
In 2022 we missed the finals by a point with 2 questionable blocks paid against us in the final quarter of the season. No one cried for us then so stuff them.
You often see the ball brush a hand or arm of a player then is marked properly by their opponent, everyone accepts thats a mark around the ground, we only have this hoo haa because of the state of the game and the resulting goal.
Freo lost the game fair and square and only have themselves to blame, as others have said they were probably the better team on the day and its stings losing like that but good teams find a way to win and non contenders like Freo find ways to lose.
x2
As for the Fog incident, I no longer think it can be a fine after looking at the criteria, he will miss a week or 2.
Careless, medium impact to the body; fine at most.
Vossy dismissed it as two players going for the ball and he's usually careful not to comment on MRO matters ... but then there's the Plowman suspension :-\
I'm more concerned about Fog's wrist. He seemed to be concerned about it after the collision and I wouldn't be surprised if he's fractured his scaphoid. Fingers crossed that he's OK.
Agreed, stuff like that is missed all the time, players can barely hear each other shouting let along for an umpire to detect a snick of the footy in real-time play, it happens all the time. btw., The Freo protest is valid, in the 4K x 100Hz slow motion it shows the ball flick Aish's bicep which ripples from the contact, and it also possibly flicks his hair but that could well be the breeze as the pill flys past.
Are we really going to expect umpires to detect that sort of incidental contact?
Regardless, to then stupidly abuse the umpire you get what you deserve.
Well said. I couldn't agree more.
Umpires, for various and obvious reasons will miss what a slow-mo camera picks up. That's the system. Players, umpires, and the ARC. The latter having a defined role.
Cottrell's goal sealed the game with seconds left on the clock. The touch wasn't called based on the system we have. Push on.
The Matt Kennedy free was awarded based on all umpires consulting. If the player's action was deemed a free, then so be it. We can't ask for much more than that from the umpires. I expect the offender will find himself doing some soul searching over his actions. IF it was deemed serious end umpire abuse, then the system has a mechanism for that too.
In the end, we stuck to our guns and kept our shape and composure at a critical time. Freo did not, but played very well for the remainder of the game. Moments. Games can be won and lost in Moments. We're growing our group to be the Masters of Moments and I love that!
Careless, medium impact to the body; fine at most.
Vossy dismissed it as two players going for the ball and he's usually careful not to comment on MRO matters ... but then there's the Plowman suspension :-\
I'm more concerned about Fog's wrist. He seemed to be concerned about it after the collision and I wouldn't be surprised if he's fractured his scaphoid. Fingers crossed that he's OK.
Ive read that under the the rules, neck is high (not body).
Fremantle defender Jordan Clark was penalised for dissent against Carlton after using the expression “f***ing idiot” but has told the club he was berating himself for allowing opponent Matthew Cottrell to mark.
This masthead understands Dockers players had been irate that key forward Jy Amiss had not received free kicks across the game while Carlton forwards had been rewarded in marking contests.
Clark allowed Cottrell to mark after George Hewett’s kick was sent forward, with the AFL on Sunday admitting their umpires missed the ball hitting James Aish’s forearm.
It was after that goal that Clark has told friends he uttered the expression “You f***ing idiot, Jordan”.
The umpire Alex Whetton immediately paid a free kick for dissent and the Blues extended their margin in a game that put them 4-0 for the season.
The league on Sunday admitted its umpires had missed the touched kick that landed in Cottrell’s lap.
Clark had been in constant chatter with the umpires all day and so it is understandable they believed he was again chirping over their decision-making.
Fremantle defender Jordan Clark was penalised for dissent against Carlton after using the expression “f***ing idiot” but has told the club he was berating himself for allowing opponent Matthew Cottrell to mark.
This masthead understands Dockers players had been irate that key forward Jy Amiss had not received free kicks across the game while Carlton forwards had been rewarded in marking contests.
Clark allowed Cottrell to mark after George Hewett’s kick was sent forward, with the AFL on Sunday admitting their umpires missed the ball hitting James Aish’s forearm.
It was after that goal that Clark has told friends he uttered the expression “You f***ing idiot, Jordan”.
The umpire Alex Whetton immediately paid a free kick for dissent and the Blues extended their margin in a game that put them 4-0 for the season.
The league on Sunday admitted its umpires had missed the touched kick that landed in Cottrell’s lap.
Clark had been in constant chatter with the umpires all day and so it is understandable they believed he was again chirping over their decision-making.
The young fella will hopefully have learnt his lesson the hard way that gobbing off at the umps doesn't pay.
So a player looking directly at the umpire and saids you f***ing idiot and he is taking to himself. Is that the defence's argument?
So a player looking directly at the umpire and saids you f***ing idiot and he is taking to himself. Is that the defence's argument?
Hilarious, especially as the umps said he was chirping at them all day. Just cop your medicine and move on son.
Hilarious, especially as the umps said he was chirping at them all day. Just cop your medicine and move on son.
There's an article in The West Australian (paywall). Whilst not relevant at the time of the decision, it gives some context. The AFL have on this issue at least, been consistently trying to stamp this out.
It covers an ex-AFL umpire's view of Mr Clark. He refers to Clark as a "spoilt brat, noting his repeat offences. Evidently He hasn't learned his lesson"
Fogarty gets 1 week.
All in all, I think our 1st Adelaide Oval was a win all round.
Hopefully Elijah is Ok. I don’t think Martin will be available for a while (?5 - 6wks). Fog NA 1wk, and Motlop still 1 -2wks IIRC
On to R5
Go Blues
There's an article in The West Australian (paywall). Whilst not relevant at the time of the decision, it gives some context. The AFL have on this issue at least, been consistently trying to stamp this out.
It covers an ex-AFL umpire's view of Mr Clark. He refers to Clark as a "spoilt brat, noting his repeat offences. Evidently He hasn't learned his lesson"
For some context, the former umpire is Michael Pell who was arrested for conspiracy to pass on Brownlow vote information but never charged.
He said, “I umpired Clark a little bit during his debut season in 2019 in the VFL and then again in scratch matches in 2020 during lockdown.
Things came to a head one day at Ikon Park in a game that meant nothing – a glorified match simulation with 14 per side. Clark was carrying on about decisions and generally just being difficult.
I pulled him aside at a break and told him for the sake of his career he needed to stop with the berating and abuse of umpires – it went in one ear and out the other and I thought to myself: ‘This kid just doesn’t get it’.”
The thing is that, despite Clark’s “explanation”, the umpires know what he said and all umpires will know it before long. He won’t get any leeway in future unless he mends his ways.
We probably should consider how many times we have been screwed over with umpires decisions. Either paying or not paying a result in the past. Karma has a strange way of working the other way years later. We just need to take the wins as we get them. While Adelaide could and probably should be a win for us, we need to consider the rounds to follow. GWS, Geelong, Collingwood and Melbourne will be a true measure of where we are at. Depending on the results. Just need some composure and finish on the scoreboard to start. It won’t be easy to finish top 8 and very hard to get into the top 4. Winning close games gives me faith we can fight to the death. Before the game I expected a 3 goal win our way. Listening to the game I expected a 3 goal loss. Isn’t it funny how the result ends up in the end. The die hard minutes of the contest. Load up. Next round.
The crook decisions always balance out across a season, just like the free kicks in a game mysteriously balance out by the final siren, but that doesn't mean the impact of those decisions will be equal.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/other/carlton-s-gather-round-heist-sparks-howls-of-derision-from-afl-s-conspiracy-theorists/ar-BB1ldHZ5?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=75fae0e076634162b2cadcff2f2a5b23&ei=15
So I don't want to buy into whats fair and what isn't, but if you have a look at pack marks, you will see hands on the ball from usually a defender in front, a defender behind, and if a key forward is still strong enough to grab it and pull it down in that situation.
I know for a touched goal, brushing past someone's leg and not is the difference between a goal and not, but this is being beat up on a maybe touched mark.
Kane Cornes making sense:
"We’re paying that a mark in almost every instance in this game, we always have.”
We'll get a couple of days of 'noise' and then another controversy will take over.
It's a pretty great feeling to be back in a position of strength, where these things make the supporters of other sides (those not even involved in the contest) lose their sh*t :D
Kane Cornes making sense:
"We’re paying that a mark in almost every instance in this game, we always have.”
Took me back as well when I watched his take on the game. Who'd have thought that Kane C would be the voice of reason :o
I think Corn is a closet CDFC fan
I think Cornes changed his tune when he appointed Voss. He must have had dealings with him at Port Adelaide.
I went, and TBH we were lucky. But at the same time, we missed a bunch of gettable goals - Cripps, McKay (Q2), Cottrell, Acres (Q3) all missed very gettable shots that would have given us a decent lead in a tight game.
The team certainly looked like they we in a bit of holiday mode at the start, but slowly worked up to a harder edge.
We need to defend short chains down the wing better - I lost count of the number of times Freo had a free run with short passes and snappy handball while we were back-pedalling.....
But gee, it's funny how 2 minutes of football can change a futile 1600km drive into a 'great weekend'.
And FWIW, Gather Round is pretty special - Adelaide was sure buzzing.
I think Cornes changed his tune when he appointed Voss. He must have had dealings with him at Port Adelaide.
Hmm, I think Cornes knows who butters his bread and he'll go where the money is, regardless of whether that is right, wrong, controversial or downright immoral.
Carlton playing and winning always delivers one thing the haters can never deny, $$$$$.
On a more serious note, I suspect what fans are experiencing is really the magic of the Cook! I was watching a show the other day that had a character called "Master Chief", it immediately made me think of labelling Brian Cook the "Master Cook"!
It's disappointing that our hard fought win has become obscured by a segment of the media's focus on one umpiring decision. It's also disappointing that Andrew Dillon was naive enough to add fuel to the fire by his unqualified acceptance that there was an umpiring error. He should have made it clear that field umpires make decisions in real time and don't have access to slo-mo replays and touched ball calls go either way in virtually every game. After all, the Freo players were claiming that the ball came off Aish's head rather than his shoulder.
Cripps was robbed of shot at goal when an out on the full free wasn't paid after Hughes toe-poked the ball in our forward pocket. Then there's Kemp copping a friendly fire kick in the face and not being sent off under the blood rule until after the Sonny Walters' free. As famous NBL referee Eddie Crouch said to me when I was fouled for a perfect shot block on Bruce Doull, "Swings and roundabouts!" So many decisions can go either way in a game of footy that it's pointless to focus on one incident.
It was an interesting game with Freo being a lot cleaner with their ball use and uncontested footy. While we seemed a little off, our defensive work was very good and we were able to shut them down and force kicks to contests. Freo did much the same to us.
While we were well down in the clearances, we often got the first touch but couldn't capitalise on it. When we did win the clearance, we made the most of it. Freo didn't get great value from their clearance work. Jackson has been the standout ruck in the opening rounds with exceptional Champion Data rankings and 18 AFLCA votes but Tom De Koning's all round game was too good for Jackson. An interesting stat; Jackson gained 27m, De Koning gained 325m.
Freo's tall forwards were a constant threat but Weitering's dominance and generalship gave our defenders an edge. McGovern was under a lot more pressure than usual and had a relatively quiet game. The other defenders all had very good games. Williams in particular is improving with each game and he'll be missed next week.
Harry was out of sorts and I thought the heavy knock he copped early in the game may have caused some damage. We missed his dominance in the air but Charley helped to make up for it.
Probably the determining factor was our game awareness. Freo's players were caught out by our surge and didn't respond until it was too late. Our blokes knew exactly what was required when it counted and they got the job done.
PS My shot block on Bruce Doull was in a geriatric competition long after we both should have given the game away :)
Some pundits rate the Freo defence as the league's best I understand. If that is right then we did pretty well!
I went, and TBH we were lucky. But at the same time, we missed a bunch of gettable goals - Cripps, McKay (Q2), Cottrell, Acres (Q3) all missed very gettable shots that would have given us a decent lead in a tight game.
The team certainly looked like they we in a bit of holiday mode at the start, but slowly worked up to a harder edge.
We need to defend short chains down the wing better - I lost count of the number of times Freo had a free run with short passes and snappy handball while we were back-pedalling.....
But gee, it's funny how 2 minutes of football can change a futile 1600km drive into a 'great weekend'.
And FWIW, Gather Round is pretty special - Adelaide was sure buzzing.
We may have been lucky but we were in a position to be in it until the end, that's not luck. Who's to say that if the ball was called touched that we didn't score a goal from the stoppage. Who's to say Freo wouldn't have given away a free at the stoppage and Chirpy Clarke wouldn't have robbed off just the same. Everyone can whinge about it all they like, reality is we are 4 zip and I am confident we can beat anyone, anywhere, anytime.
Some pundits rate the Freo defence as the league's best I understand. If that is right then we did pretty well!
Our defence isn't to shabby either and if not for all those frees 20m directly in front, we would have pumped them.
TDK is again overrated imo, I gave him a vote for breaking even with Jackson in the ruck contests but in all the other stats apart from metres gained he was behind Jackson and the disposals TDK got went at around 37% disposal efficiency, Jackson wasnt much better at 57%. For me it was a nil all draw with those two and I thought Freo shaded us in the midfield where Brayshaw was the best player on the ground and Serong very effective as well.
Thought our backline won us the game led by Weitering and Kemp plus Freo's tall forwards were a non factor and well beaten all game. Freo's defense is helped by their game plan and its Ross Lyon like both in operation and the lack of scoring which just leads to a grinding predictable low scoring slugfest. While Longmuir is coaching I cant see Freo ever being a serious finals contender...
If I hear that we were 'lucky' again, I'll tear off my own ears! If you want to talk 'lucky', how about Freo getting 66% of their goals from frees... some there, some not. The end.
Had to go out with 15 mins to go. Checked scores, Freo were ~10 points up with 3 mins to go, so I wrote it off. Pleasantly surprised with the result!
Touched - so what, must happen a bit when getting it out of packs as others have said.
Nothing controversial from my perspective after watching it back. I thought we could have been a few goals in front by the end of the second, but it was a tough day at the office.
The big thing out of this victory - is our boys stayed engaged in the contest.
Even the final moments of the match where Crippa called TDK out of the ruck contest that threw Jackson into a tangent and made a big error. What a move by Crippa.
TDK is again overrated imo, I gave him a vote for breaking even with Jackson in the ruck contests but in all the other stats apart from metres gained he was behind Jackson and the disposals TDK got went at around 37% disposal efficiency, Jackson wasnt much better at 57%. For me it was a nil all draw with those two and I thought Freo shaded us in the midfield where Brayshaw was the best player on the ground and Serong very effective as well.
Thought our backline won us the game led by Weitering and Kemp plus Freo's tall forwards were a non factor and well beaten all game. Freo's defense is helped by their game plan and its Ross Lyon like both in operation and the lack of scoring which just leads to a grinding predictable low scoring slugfest. While Longmuir is coaching I cant see Freo ever being a serious finals contender...
Not quite correct EB; De Koning was ahead in tackles (5-1), inside 50s (5-1), rebound 50s (2-1), contested marks (2-1) and centre clearances (2-0). That reflects Tom's value around the ground and not just his superior ruckwork this season (averaging 29 hitouts compared to high teens in the last few seasons). As for disposals, most of Jackson's were backwards, hence his 27m, and not under pressure. The same goes for most of his teammates who rarely kick to contests and thrive on uncontested footy. In that context, it's interesting that Brayshaw and Serong wasted so many of their possessions. In part, that was down to us allowing uncontested passes down the line, then erecting a wall across halfback (or half forward).
It's too early in the season for me to make a call on Freo. They've got talent and a system that should make them competitive against most teams but they need to find away to score more freely and know when to go defensive. It will be informative to see how they go against the other top eight teams.
I thought TDK was probably our best player.
I thought TDK was probably our best player.
I thought Tom started the game timidly and when Jackson took that towering grab I thought he's going to have one of the those days. To Tom's credit, I think he turned the tide not long after that mark and at times really grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck (to use old fashioned football parlance). Not the complete "big dog" game but very good indeed and definitely was one of the key players who made sure we stayed in the game.
Jackson was the inform ruckman heading into our clash, he was Brad Johnson's rolling AA ruckman last week.
Jackson was the inform ruckman heading into our clash, he was Brad Johnson's rolling AA ruckman last week.
Jackson is currently rated as the tenth best player in the AFL. At worst, De Koning broke even with him. A more nuanced assessment would recognise that De Koning had significantly more impact on the outcome of the game than Jackson did, even allowing for Jackson's brain fade hitout that resulted in Cottrell's mark and goal to put us in front.
Jackson is currently rated as the tenth best player in the AFL. At worst, De Koning broke even with him. A more nuanced assessment would recognise that De Koning had significantly more impact on the outcome of the game than Jackson did, even allowing for Jackson's brain fade hitout that resulted in Cottrell's mark and goal to put us in front.
Jackson usually does his best work around the ground, but Tom nullified that totally. It was Tom who took the important marks, not Jackson.
However, Tom's ruckwork probably wasn't as good as Jackson's on the day. Freo seemed to have 'worked out' our midfield structure and limited it.
Tom can be happy with his day's work, but not the way our midfield functioned.
If I hear that we were 'lucky' again, I'll tear off my own ears! If you want to talk 'lucky', how about Freo getting 66% of their goals from frees... some there, some not. The end.
We've been 'lucky' in our last 7 games decided by 10 points or less: 7-0.
If each of them were genuinly 50-50 results (a toss of the coin) then for 7 tosses of the coin to go your way you are looking at odds of 1 in 128 or 0.78% chance of happening.
Perhaps its not all about luck.
Just quietly we have won 15 of our last 17 games. One of the 2 losses was a dead rubber.
Fyfe’s hit on Fog did result in a broken wrist. Can he still be cited for making contact with Fog’s hand with his shoulder?
I think they’re saying two weeks for Fog’s wrist but I suspect it will be longer. We’ll miss his relentless pressure but it gives someone else an opportunity.
Coaches votes were a bit weird...
Round 4 votes:
8- Andrew Brayshaw (FRE)
5 - Hayden Young (FRE)
4 - Jacob Weitering (CARL)
4 - Charlie Curnow (CARL)
4 - Jordan Clark (FRE)
3 - Caleb Serong (FRE)
1 - James Aish (FRE)
Fyfe’s hit on Fog did result in a broken wrist. Can he still be cited for making contact with Fog’s hand with his shoulder?
I think they’re saying two weeks for Fog’s wrist but I suspect it will be longer. We’ll miss his relentless pressure but it gives someone else an opportunity.
It's not a coincidence Fogarty came into the side 17 games ago.
It's not a coincidence Fogarty came into the side 17 games ago.
16, but who's counting.
Fogarty is 14-2 since coming into the side R14 vs Gold Coast which started our run.
Cuningham also came into the side at the same time and has missed the odd game, but is 13-1 over that same time period (dropped for the prelim final!)
These blokes add pressure.
Without them, we, yep, lack the same kind of pressure.
Its not rocket science.
You're correct Fogarty missed Rd 23 against the Suns up there.
Carlton are 15-2 since rd 14 last year.
Fans will never agree, but for me it's hard evidence that the 24x7 unspectacular and unfashionable stuff that the likes of Cottrell, Owies, Fogarty, Hewett, Kennedy and Cunningham bring is far more valuable than the flash in the pan highlights some others offer.
Fans tend to remember the highlights, the stuff that stands out, without even noticing the grunt work that made it happen.
Fans will never agree, but for me it's hard evidence that the 24x7 unspectacular and unfashionable stuff that the likes of Cottrell, Owies, Fogarty, Hewett, Kennedy and Cunningham bring is far more valuable than the flash in the pan highlights some others offer.
Fans tend to remember the highlights, the stuff that stands out, without even noticing the grunt work that made it happen.
Some supporters perhaps, but certainly not all or even most.
Carlton players who only offered flash in the pan highlights would be running around in the Magoos.
We need to be educated by players and coaches in the current system.
Selwood taught me something last week that I had never heard or thought of before. Adelaide were coming back against Melbourne but the clock was working against them. With about 4 minutes left Selwood said Adelaide will have to "Something" tackle. (I forgot the word). He went on to explain it was like half tackling, they couldn't afford the dead balls. Deliberately not committing to a tackle to keep the ball moving so you have a chance of winning.
We need to be educated by players and coaches in the current system.
Selwood taught me something last week that I had never heard or thought of before. Adelaide were coming back against Melbourne but the clock was working against them. With about 4 minutes left Selwood said Adelaide will have to "Something" tackle. (I forgot the word). He went on to explain it was like half tackling, they couldn't afford the dead balls. Deliberately not committing to a tackle to keep the ball moving so you have a chance of winning.
Yep I heard that it was auskick tackling.
It was largely because they had no stoppage dominate and stoppages took more time off the clock and advantaged gawn and the dees midfield.
If I hear that we were 'lucky' again, I'll tear off my own ears! If you want to talk 'lucky', how about Freo getting 66% of their goals from frees... some there, some not. The end.
I'm disappointed that they keep referring to the 'touched' mark. It wasn't, it was a mark. There must be 5-10 marks in every game that are 'touched' but paid as marks - most pack marks have multiple hands on them, and as for smothering off the boot, umpires are always looking for hands doing that, not triceps. They sure as hell are not allowed to look at slow-motion enhanced video from 3 different angles.
And the free that followed - Freo can own that completely.
So we weren't the thieves - just the club that is smart enough to play until the final siren rings and take its chances along the way.
Jackson usually does his best work around the ground, but Tom nullified that totally. It was Tom who took the important marks, not Jackson.
However, Tom's ruckwork probably wasn't as good as Jackson's on the day. Freo seemed to have 'worked out' our midfield structure and limited it.
Tom can be happy with his day's work, but not the way our midfield functioned.
I posted this in RR’s “Apparent improvement by umpires” thread but it’s relevant here too;
“A quick analysis of the centre bounces from our game.
The ball was bounced 20 times and was thrown up once for a 666 warning. 17 bounces were perfect, two deviated slightly from the vertical (De Koning got both hitouts) and one was recalled when McKay and Jackson couldn't get near it. De Koning won 12 hitouts and got one clean possession, Jackson won three hitouts and McKay won two. There were no free kicks for ruck infringements and I didn't see anything that warranted a free kick. Not a bad day's work by the umpires ... and Tom.”
Just quietly we have won 15 of our last 17 games. One of the 2 losses was a dead rubber.
Don't have to be quiet about it...haha.
The big thing out of this victory - is our boys stayed engaged in the contest.
Even the final moments of the match where Crippa called TDK out of the ruck contest that threw Jackson into a tangent and made a big error. What a move by Crippa.
Confident. Committed. Composed.
Well drilled finishing nous.
The big thing out of this victory - is our boys stayed engaged in the contest.
Even the final moments of the match where Crippa called TDK out of the ruck contest that threw Jackson into a tangent and made a big error. What a move by Crippa.
Whether that was pre-planned or not we'll never know, but you can only do it when you have ultra mobile type rucks like TDK or Jackson as they become an extra stoppage player in the zone.
FWIW, back when we had both Kreuzer and Hampson in F50 we would do a similar thing, because they were both mobile enough around stoppages, it left the opposition not knowing which ruck would contest and which ruck would rove, I never understood why we didn't implement it more. There are some old clips floating around of Kreuzer and Hampson roving to each other for goals. The 3rd man up stifled the tactic for a while, and now having to nominate reduces some of the impact, but it still works if you have the right options available.
Whether that was pre-planned or not we'll never know, but you can only do it when you have ultra mobile type rucks like TDK or Jackson as they become an extra stoppage player in the zone.
FWIW, back when we had both Kreuzer and Hampson in F50 we would do a similar thing, because they were both mobile enough around stoppages, it left the opposition not knowing which ruck would contest and which ruck would rove, I never understood why we didn't implement it more. There are some old clips floating around of Kreuzer and Hampson roving to each other for goals. The 3rd man up stifled the tactic for a while, and now having to nominate reduces some of the impact, but it still works if you have the right options available.
Most of the time, we only had one of them available for extended periods of time.
Fans will never agree, but for me it's hard evidence that the 24x7 unspectacular and unfashionable stuff that the likes of Cottrell, Owies, Fogarty, Hewett, Kennedy and Cunningham bring is far more valuable than the flash in the pan highlights some others offer.
Fans tend to remember the highlights, the stuff that stands out, without even noticing the grunt work that made it happen.
Not an either/or thing, Spotted One. Successful teams have role players, elite talent and even 'flashy' types. Mix and balance. We love 'em all. And they're all as important as each other.
Most of the time, we only had one of them available for extended periods of time.
True, my point was more about having the mobile ruck type available in F50, the tactic would not work with a Pitto type in F50 because he's just not agile enough to impact the footy away from his immediate zone.
For me the domain of the mobile rucks is attack, and the home of the monolith ruck is defence, very few rucks can do both well, currently Gawn is perhaps an exception.
Sam Walsh
IN
Lachie Fogarty (Suspension)
OUT
Praise the lord!
The big thing out of this victory - is our boys stayed engaged in the contest.
Even the final moments of the match where Crippa called TDK out of the ruck contest that threw Jackson into a tangent and made a big error. What a move by Crippa.
The positioning around that stoppage was interesting with De Koning standing goal side rather than in a defensive position. I'd love to know whether that was part of a plan to convince Jackson to go for an attacking hitout.
The players often talk about rehearsing scenarios - was that one they'd planned?
For me the domain of the mobile rucks is attack, and the home of the monolith ruck is defence, very few rucks can do both well, currently Gawn is perhaps an exception.
We saw last night why Gawn is an exception, it was basically Brisbane defeated Gawn.
The positioning around that stoppage was interesting with De Koning standing goal side rather than in a defensive position. I'd love to know whether that was part of a plan to convince Jackson to go for an attacking hitout.
The players often talk about rehearsing scenarios - was that one they'd planned?
Bit hard to tell, we saw early the stuff Jackson was doing and that was rehearsed because he went at it from the 1st, but as the game evolved TDK started to switch things up, probably good coaching by SpecialK perhaps.
The training will be in the techniques, not what to do where and when, the where and when call is more dynamic as it depends on the on-ball crew as a whole. A kid like TDK has already practised the techniques, he just needs reminders of the options he can call on, later they'll become second nature.
T
The players often talk about rehearsing scenarios - was that one they'd planned?
100%, they have done a truckload in this area of the game (ie scenario practice). You can tell by the way we play. Its one thing to have a never say die attitude, but to pull wins like that off you need to know what youre doing and be well drilled at it. They do and they are.