Re: Reset Rants Reply #150 – May 01, 2018, 10:12:31 pm Quote from: Shakin77 on May 01, 2018, 09:58:34 pm"can have" Key words.If any of the 4 you mentioned did I hope they don't bump their head when they wake up.He had those stats in one game.None of the individuals mentioned have those stats nor were they likely to have....but a fit "any two" would go close to matching Gibbs output in average terms. It's yet to be seen... but a fit Kennedy and Lang or some improvement from some of our young midfielders should go a fair way to covering that lossYes we've lost Gibbs...but the net result isn't the loss of 43 possessions, or even his average 23.... unless the replacements are getting none at all.
Re: Reset Rants Reply #151 – May 01, 2018, 10:21:08 pm Quote from: Lods on May 01, 2018, 10:12:31 pmHe had those stats in one game.None of the individuals mentioned have those stats nor were they likely to have....but a fit "any two" would go close to matching Gibbs output in average terms. It's yet to be seen... but a fit Kennedy and Lang or some improvement from some of our young midfielders should go a fair way to covering that lossYes we've lost Gibbs...but the net result isn't the loss of 43 possessions, or even his average 23.... unless the replacements are getting none at all.Yes. That's was sort of my point.You can't replace 1 with 2. So it's Gibbs & SPS (Debut Year) vs Kennedy & SPS (Extra Year). Look all those guys should improve, but 4 players with 0-40 games experience aren't going to make a great midfield. Yet
Re: Reset Rants Reply #152 – May 01, 2018, 10:33:30 pm My argument was based on your original point that with the loss of Gibbs we should have seen the difficult season coming.But using the Gibbs, Kennedy, SPS combinations...we didn't know Kennedy would struggle with injury and there was some expectation that SPS would have an improved year and not suffer from second year blues.So there was reason to be positive about the season.Of much greater impact was the loss of Docherty ...then Kreuzer and Murphy.Anyway.... come the second half of the year if we can get a few back, and some improved form from some of the strugglers, we may have a better idea of where we stand.
Re: Reset Rants Reply #153 – May 01, 2018, 10:49:28 pm Quote from: Lods on May 01, 2018, 10:33:30 pmMy argument was based on your original point that with the loss of Gibbs we should have seen the difficult season coming.But using the Gibbs, Kennedy, SPS combinations...we didn't know Kennedy would struggle with injury and there was some expectation that SPS would have an improved year and not suffer from second year blues.So there was reason to be positive about the season.Of much greater impact was the loss of Docherty ...then Kreuzer and Murphy.Anyway.... come the second half of the year if we can get a few back, and some improved form from some of the strugglers, we may have a better idea of where we stand.Again I argued that we would be doing well not to go backwards after trading Gibbs. I'm sorry to say we haven't done well enough to not go backwards. Docherty or no Docherty.
Re: Reset Rants Reply #154 – May 02, 2018, 01:51:38 pm Quote from: Lods on May 01, 2018, 06:41:19 pmThe Daisy Thomas who has been amongst our best this year and is still considered best 22....Some are saying that we need to bring in a Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell type elder statesmen to direct the young kids and give them some cover down back. I'd argue that Thomas is as, if not more, effective than Hodge at the moment, in that role.
Re: Reset Rants Reply #155 – May 02, 2018, 01:57:09 pm Quote from: townsendcalling on May 02, 2018, 01:51:38 pmSome are saying that we need to bring in a Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell type elder statesmen to direct the young kids and give them some cover down back. I'd argue that Thomas is as, if not more, effective than Hodge at the moment, in that role. x2It's probably fair to say we need another in that role, but I'd assert if we go that way it should be a KPF type not a utility. I think if they can stay fit and find form, ACoS and Rowe are already viable KPD statesmen.As much as I've like Levi's last two games, I can't see him as a KPF role model. Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 04:30:54 pm by LP
Re: Reset Rants Reply #156 – May 02, 2018, 03:51:13 pm Quote from: madbluboy on May 01, 2018, 08:49:39 pmI remember when Pagan was coach posters here were saying that was the first time the club has done a full rebuild and embraced the draft.Very hard to rebuild when the first 2 years we lost 2 first round, 2 second round and a priority pick.To rebuild through the draft you have to trade away players to get picks, something we have never done in fact we've done the opposite, traded away picks to get players.This is the first time that Carlton have built their team through the draft while trading in young talent as well.
Re: Reset Rants Reply #157 – May 02, 2018, 04:21:35 pm Quote from: LP on May 02, 2018, 01:57:09 pmx2It's probably fair to say we need another in that role, but I'd assert if we go that way it should be a KPF type not a utility. I think if they can stay fit and find form, ACoS and Rowe are already viable KPD statesmen.As much as I've like Levi's last two games, I can't see his as a KPF role model.Yet, according to Matty Wright, Casboult is the leader of the forwards. As much as I like Levi’s work as a back up ruck and key forward, I’m not sure that having him as the forward line skipper is a good thing. It would be nice if we had a very experienced forward with a few years of decent form ahead of them to organise our forward line, and particularly when we don’t have the pill.
Re: Reset Rants Reply #158 – May 02, 2018, 04:34:42 pm Quote from: DJC on May 02, 2018, 04:21:35 pmYet, according to Matty Wright, Casboult is the leader of the forwards. As much as I like Levi’s work as a back up ruck and key forward, I’m not sure that having him as the forward line skipper is a good thing. It would be nice if we had a very experienced forward with a few years of decent form ahead of them to organise our forward line, and particularly when we don’t have the pill.But is this a new thing for Levi, he's clearly been very different the last couple of games, perhaps it is down to these new responsibilities?Personally, I like the new Levi, it is such a contrast to the old one! If he keeps playing the way he is currently playing opposition will start taking him seriously, and he'll kick 8 before the season is over!All I want now is to see him crack on for four quarters, and take out a few more opponents! Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 04:36:23 pm by LP
Re: Reset Rants Reply #159 – May 02, 2018, 04:41:31 pm Quote from: DJC on May 02, 2018, 04:21:35 pmYet, according to Matty Wright, Casboult is the leader of the forwards. As much as I like Levi’s work as a back up ruck and key forward, I’m not sure that having him as the forward line skipper is a good thing. It would be nice if we had a very experienced forward with a few years of decent form ahead of them to organise our forward line, and particularly when we don’t have the pill.Yes I noted that DJC. I think Levi is showing a lot more confidence - not sure if it is due to his new responsibilities?
Re: Reset Rants Reply #160 – May 02, 2018, 04:58:45 pm Quote from: Raydan on May 02, 2018, 03:51:13 pmVery hard to rebuild when the first 2 years we lost 2 first round, 2 second round and a priority pick.To rebuild through the draft you have to trade away players to get picks, something we have never done in fact we've done the opposite, traded away picks to get players.This is the first time that Carlton have built their team through the draft while trading in young talent as well.It was a rebuild, just not through the draft initially....Pagan moved on the older players and replaced them with 'average' mid-aged players from other clubs.Probably the thinking was that they were a bit above average which in most cases turned out not to be the case.That's not completely unlike what we've done with some of the players we've picked up from other clubs.The difference this time is the youth approach.While it's easy to look back in hindsight and say what a disaster it was at the time, there was genuine hope a bounce back from the draft penalties would only take a few years. The mid-age group were merely a stop-gap until we were again able to hit the draft early. At that point, other than number one picks, it became more about poor choices and poor development.That's where we need to be better this time. Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 05:03:02 pm by Lods
Re: Reset Rants Reply #161 – May 02, 2018, 05:38:30 pm 2004-2008 had numerous top picks. How was that not a rebuild?
Re: Reset Rants Reply #162 – May 02, 2018, 05:51:40 pm There's no clear definition as to what actually constitutes a rebuild/reset etc. My view is that it involves a whole-of-club approach, from top to toe, across all departments, all teams etc. A stated aim wrt culture, belief, values that is hopefully rigorously adhered to and followed through. A very particular way of looking at a footy club as a genuine holistic entity. If you're just going through the motions, and taking your allotted 1str rounder, 2nd rounder etc. I'm not sure that's a rebuild. And if you happen to be crap for a few years, and get lots of 1st rounders, taking the "best available", I'm not sure that's a rebuild. Changing coaches every 30 seconds IMO resets the rebuild.
Re: Reset Rants Reply #163 – May 02, 2018, 05:54:16 pm Quote from: madbluboy on May 02, 2018, 05:38:30 pm2004-2008 had numerous top picks. How was that not a rebuild?Of course it was a rebuild...and two coaches later that rebuild resulted in finals appearances.We started with a mid-aged acquisition, topped it up with early picks and then finished it off by adding a marquee player.A rebuild. The real point of difference this time , and something we didn't do that time, is that this time we're trading players for earlier picks in the draft.It's just a different kind of rebuild
Re: Reset Rants Reply #164 – May 02, 2018, 06:52:58 pm Quote from: madbluboy on May 02, 2018, 05:38:30 pm2004-2008 had numerous top picks. How was that not a rebuild?And we fecked up nearly every one of them
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