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Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #60 –
Has there ever been a group talked up as much as these Fisher, Setterfield, Dow and Cunningham and yet deliver SFA.

Dow: Does a shimmy or side step once a game and we all get excited. Reality is he looks so slow without the ball because he is lazy and doesn't work hard enough. Has terrible foot skills and no idea how to even drop the ball onto his boot correctly when taking a shot at goal. Big miss as a top 3 pick and another average season and I will put a line though him. Its now or never for Dow to improve and what I saw last night there is no reason to be too optimistic.     

Setterfield: Cant see it with this guy. Apart from his height does little to show me what all the hype was about. Willing to give him more time but not convinced he will ever be more then a C grader.

Fisher: Had massive hope for this bloke yet is another one that is lucky to touch it 10 times a match. Clean user but too small to ever make it as a top line mid. Have grave doubts on him and plays like he wants to go home.

Cunningham: Still think he has the most X factor and probably the best goal sneak but a pick 20 and 5 years in just doesn't impact enough and another one that glides around like there is no urgency. Wont amount to any more then a burst player at best.

Not much to get excited about when you take off the blue glasses and be honest about our midfield depth.

    

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #61 –
Quote from: LP on
A lack of confidence doesn't make you jog behind your opponent when you're probably equally fast if not faster, this guy chases at half rat pace, get rid of him, send the list a message!
There were many instances of our blokes not going 100% to chase an opponent, cut off a kick, get to a contest, get to a ball dropping short. Richmond on the other hand are feral in this regard. That and clean disposal is the difference.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #62 –
Quote from: shawny on
Has there ever been a group talked up as much as these Fisher, Setterfield, Dow and Cunningham and yet deliver SFA.

Dow: Does a shimmy or side step once a game and we all get excited. Reality is he looks so slow without the ball because he is lazy and doesn't work hard enough. Has terrible foot skills and no idea how to even drop the ball onto his boot correctly when taking a shot at goal. Big miss as a top 3 pick and another average season and I will put a line though him. Its now or never for Dow to improve and what I saw last night there is no reason to be too optimistic.     

Setterfield: Cant see it with this guy. Apart from his height does little to show me what all the hype was about. Willing to give him more time but not convinced he will ever be more then a C grader.

Fisher: Had massive hope for this bloke yet is another one that is lucky to touch it 10 times a match. Clean user but too small to ever make it as a top line mid. Have grave doubts on him and plays like he wants to go home.

Cunningham: Still think he has the most X factor and probably the best goal sneak but a pick 20 and 5 years in just doesn't impact enough and another one that glides around like there is no urgency. Wont amount to any more then a burst player at best.

Not much to get excited about when you take off the blue glasses and be honest about our midfield depth.

    

Fisher is one who has gone backwards after his first year. Doesnt deserve a spot in the 1s. Ditto Dow. Setterfield is just plain soft. Cunningham has played his one in a row, he will either pull up sore, get injured at training this week or get injured next week and that will be it for the year.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #63 –
Mirrors my thoughts 100 percent.

Fisher hasn't been the same since that hound broke his leg but is just too small.

Stocker needs to be at least good as he is believed to be,  at least he is the right size, good in traffic and a superb kick. At least he looks the right starting material.

Difference between say SPS and Dow is that the former plays a 360 game,  Dow seems to only try to burst through one way and invariably gets caught.   All our better players - Cripps,  SPS etc are evasive and cool in traffic.   You either have it or you don't.  So why draft Kemp,  a big bodied straight running utility who lacks agility?

The sad thing is that i genuinely believe we finally have some blokes good enough to play in a finals type side, we just don't have enough of them.   It's the dud half of the side (and list)  that are just killing us.

For starters,  a Brad Hill type player would make us a four-six goal better side,  our delivery into the front half is awful.   Long bombs onto Gibbons' head...cant see that working going forwards.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #64 –
Proff the thing that stood out in the first qtr was Richmonds delivery into the F50 compared to ours. They kick it hard and low to a player in space. Ours was (and has been for a while) shambolic, bombs as you say, errant/missed kicks, terrible options etc etc. As I stated of the praccy matches, we demonstrated zero that we have fixed/improved disposal and decision making. With some of our players, I dont think it can be fixed/coached out.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #65 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Thats right, blame the umps and the other mob for our ineptness with the basics of the game.
 
It's not the umps fault, it's the AFL's fault.

The AFL allows the disparity to persist.

If / when we make comments like Dimma, Balme, McGuire, Buckley, Worsfold, Longmire, Clarkson, Dangerfield, Kennett, etc., etc., make comments about umpires and rules, we get reprimanded or fined!
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #66 –
Just a reminder, that was setterfields 21st game. He played 18 with us last year coming off an ACL. (2 with GWS).
Cunningham has played 26 games.
Dow played his 42nd

SPS has played 65
Jack Silvagni 61

An extra year or 2 into the top group and we will see performances like the 2nd group

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #67 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
There were many instances of our blokes not going 100% to chase an opponent, cut off a kick, get to a contest, get to a ball dropping short. Richmond on the other hand are feral in this regard. That and clean disposal is the difference.

This is something Teague needs to address - can't blame the back line when the mids don't work defensively.

Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #68 –
Quote from: flyboy77 on
This is something Teague needs to address - can't blame the back line when the mids don't work defensively.
To think that Liddle might have SoJ in the gun, last night SoJ was one of a handful that actually gave 100%!

On the mids, people on here slammed me last season when I said Ed and sMurph were having a go at Cripps for not working hard enough defensively. Have a look at the heat maps last night, and see if you can still justify that position! While I agree that Cripps is elite, it's also clear opponents know he won't chase, just like they knew Judd wouldn't chase!

We've a huge problem, ours kids just aren't stepping up, if anything they look to be going backwards. Even last night after what is supposedly the best pre-season in years it was the old blokes doing most of the grunt work. When Dow, Walsh, Fisher, etc., etc., don't chase, where does that message come from?

Perhaps this has nothing to do with coaches or recruiting, perhaps it's a club culture problem. Maybe that's why we've signed Betts, which makes the rumors/allegations that SoJ might be in the gun even more bizarre!
The Force Awakens!

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #69 –
Quote from: kruddler on
Just a reminder, that was setterfields 21st game. He played 18 with us last year coming off an ACL. (2 with GWS).
Cunningham has played 26 games.
Dow played his 42nd

SPS has played 65
Jack Silvagni 61

An extra year or 2 into the top group and we will see performances like the 2nd group
Excuses excuses, well Ive had enough. The difference btw Setterfield and Jack is that from day one, you could tell Jack would make it. He is feral when the ball or man is near and plays for the jumper. He is a SIlvagni after all. Setterfield lopes around, looking like he couldnt give fark. He looks like one of those guys who thinks he's made it just because he is selected.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #70 –
Quote from: shawny on
Has there ever been a group talked up as much as these Fisher, Setterfield, Dow and Cunningham and yet deliver SFA.

Dow: Does a shimmy or side step once a game and we all get excited. Reality is he looks so slow without the ball because he is lazy and doesn't work hard enough. Has terrible foot skills and no idea how to even drop the ball onto his boot correctly when taking a shot at goal. Big miss as a top 3 pick and another average season and I will put a line though him. Its now or never for Dow to improve and what I saw last night there is no reason to be too optimistic.     

Setterfield: Cant see it with this guy. Apart from his height does little to show me what all the hype was about. Willing to give him more time but not convinced he will ever be more then a C grader.

Fisher: Had massive hope for this bloke yet is another one that is lucky to touch it 10 times a match. Clean user but too small to ever make it as a top line mid. Have grave doubts on him and plays like he wants to go home.

Cunningham: Still think he has the most X factor and probably the best goal sneak but a pick 20 and 5 years in just doesn't impact enough and another one that glides around like there is no urgency. Wont amount to any more then a burst player at best.

Not much to get excited about when you take off the blue glasses and be honest about our midfield depth.

    


Fisher's no smaller than Lachie Neale (well maybe a few kg at this stage).

Nothing to do with it if you have the hunger.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #71 –
It wasn't so long ago that folks on here were laying into Silvagni and SPS. 20, 30, 40 gamers playing against a settled, top notch, experienced side like the Tiges will sometimes frustrate and look incomplete.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #72 –
Dow hasnt adapted to the quicker AFL senior footy and because his disposal skills are not great everything is panicked and rushed leading to errors. He got his way at u18 level due to weight of possessions and his errors were overlooked but he just cant get the footy at senior level and he needs a season in the NB's to fix his problems which isnt going to happen this year
His confidence is shot and looks nervous every time he has the ball and he will take time, not sure in the cut throat world of AFL if he will get that time though.

Fisher...smart player and still a favorite of mine but have to agree since he has come back from that bad injury he has been gun shy and just doesnt get involved in the intense manner he did before. Cripps mate so I dont see him in any trade scenario but he is another who needs to lift the way he competes, skills are there but needs to find his contesting mojo.

Setterfield.....tall but still lean and needs more footy, reckon the wing suits him best...had a poor game vs a very good Tigers lineup for sure and has high expectations on him but needs another season IMO. Didnt look overly fit to me and seemed stiff and not wanting to turn quickly like he needed more pre-season work.

Cunningham....opportunist crumber/finisher, can be very good but doesnt do enough and could be trade bait if he stays true to form and has a mix of good cameos and injury this season.

re: Brad Hill....said it at the time we should have made more effort given his ability/age and skills but not to be...
Happy with Jack Martin's first game though and credit to our own Fly for flying the flag for him(pardon the pun) as he
exceeded expectations vs Richmond and they are the best in the comp.
Kruddlers man Jack Newnes was too bad either with a nice goal and I think vs easier teams Newnes will give us good value.

re: McGovern....attacked the ball ok, threw his weight around and looked a bit better but with our forward numbers down needs to give us more like Martin did.

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #73 –
I think everyone needs to cut the playing group a serious amount of slack for last night.

Yes, Q1 was diabolical but think about it: they didn't know until late Wednesday they were actually playing then seeing the empty MCG must have been a h.,... f...?

Sure Dow, Setters, Gibbons were poor but hey, they're on a learning curve.

And with a bit better conversion we could have snatched it.

The positives (Martin, Weiters, Crippa) easily outweighed the negatives imo.

I think it's time to give Willo a go - at the expense of Newman or Simmo.

As an aside, I've seen reference made to Dusty kicking one of our players in the head? When was this alleged incident?
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: AFL Rd 1 2020: Post Game Post Mortum: Carlton vs. Richmond

Reply #74 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
.......................

re: McGovern....attacked the ball ok, threw his weight around and looked a bit better but with our forward numbers down needs to give us more like Martin did.

I thought McGovern was pretty good given his limited pre season. He did well in the middle and up forward. Did a number of things right and the one big issue last night was dropping some marks after doing all the hard work in terms of positioning, leaping etc. A sure sign of being a little rusty and underdone IMO.