Carlton Supporters Club

Come on in when the game is over!

By the time we come good, it's hard to see that the likes of Cripps, Walsh, SPS, Fisher and others will still be there.

Losses like today have a long term toll, trade them while their value is high, and before they walk! You can't blame them walking when they do!

We set-up a bidding war for the WA teams.

Dow should be dropped till he learns to kick properly.

He nails that 20m set shot late in the 3rd, we win.

And io won't even mention his f... up with 20 seconds on the clock...

Such a disappointing start to the year. Bolton is getting very little out of a decent group.

E Curnow x6
Plowman x3
Dow x3
Newman x4
Thomas x2

My count of critical clangars over the course of the day. Serial offenders above.

Dow should be dropped till he learns to kick properly.

He nails that 20m set shot late in the 3rd, we win.

And io won't even mention his f... up with 20 seconds on the clock...

We recruit this blokes because they kick well. What happens when they come to Carlton?

I cannot believe we lost. This is one insult too far!

But adversity is good for them!

Then tie them in a hessian sack and throw them in the Yarra, whoever survives gets a lifetime contract! I'm sure it'll make them better!

We recruit this blokes because they kock well. What happens when they come to Carlton?

I don't think Dow was a great kick even in his junior days.

We recruit this blokes because they kock well. What happens when they come to Carlton?

When they come to Carlton they continue to cock well.

I don't think Dow was a great kick even in his junior days.

Correct, poor kicking was what stopped him being drafted higher.

I don't think Dow was a great kick even in his junior days.

Was supposed to be. Kicking was one thing we were looking for when drafting.

Was supposed to be. Kicking was one thing we were looking for when drafting.

It was never mentioned about Dow, his go was contested ball and break-away pace, not ever his kicking. it was his pace that we recruited him for, we had almost no faster midfielders at the time.

Was supposed to be. Kicking was one thing we were looking for when drafting.

https://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/news/2017-11-09/2017-draft-guns-paddy-dow

I don't think Dow was a great kick even in his junior days.

Correct...knock on Dow was his kicking at U18 level, today wasnt a big deal win lose or draw anyway, its how we go vs the Dogs/Hawks.
It was a terrible game between two very ordinary teams and both wouldnt have got much out of that IMO.
You cant sack Bolton on the back of that game or really critique games plans, players etc....
GC got the 4 points but not much else and we are where we were when the game started.....

Dow should be dropped till he learns to kick properly.

He nails that 20m set shot late in the 3rd, we win.

And io won't even mention his f... up with 20 seconds on the clock...

What about Charlie Curnow?

Geez he plays a dumb game

I couldn’t bring myself to watch the game.

What did Dow do in the last 20 seconds?

That was absolutely the worst screwing game I’ve watched in a long time.

We are pathetic and I am over it - we were 20 points up and I knew we wouldn’t win - no composure, kicking skills are completely ducked, can barely mark the ball.  What on EARTH do we do to players when they come to us!???!

And how is it possible that the second best player in our team has played 4 games! That says everything!!!!!

What about Charlie Curnow?

Geez he plays a dumb game

Look sure JH, he was pitiful. Worse than Dow overall, no question.

Our kicking into F50 was laughable pretty much all day apart from a few patches.

https://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/news/2017-11-09/2017-draft-guns-paddy-dow

Sounded like it was still ok. i know when we were drafting we weren't taking $hit kicks.

Correct...knock on Dow was his kicking at U18 level, today wasnt a big deal win lose or draw anyway, its how we go vs the Dogs/Hawks.
It was a terrible game between two very ordinary teams and both wouldnt have got much out of that IMO.
You cant sack Bolton on the back of that game or really critique games plans, players etc....
GC got the 4 points but not much else and we are where we were when the game started.....

All the match winners seemed to be GC players, that's a worry!

I couldn’t bring myself to watch the game.

What did Dow do in the last 20 seconds?

last 30 - had the ball on the wing - could have pumped it well inside 50, instead goes cute, tries to cut inside turns it over they kick it forward and sneak a goal.

Correct...knock on Dow was his kicking at U18 level, today wasnt a big deal win lose or draw anyway, its how we go vs the Dogs/Hawks.
It was a terrible game between two very ordinary teams and both wouldnt have got much out of that IMO.
You cant sack Bolton on the back of that game or really critique games plans, players etc....
GC got the 4 points but not much else and we are where we were when the game started.....

Couldn’t disagree more.
We should have won that game by 6 goals

We have no plan and play dumb footy

It’s got to be coaching

Is Charlie being played out of position , trying to fit to many talls in the line up?

Sounded like it was still ok. i know when we were drafting we weren't taking $hit kicks.

They are very polite when critiquing the kids, they might have only one leg before they said something negative, maybe not even then!

You cant sack Bolton on the back of that game or really critique games plans, players etc....

WTFN.

tHEY PLAY LIKE A DISPARATE BUNCH OF U/14s - D division.

Correct...knock on Dow was his kicking at U18 level, today wasnt a big deal win lose or draw anyway, its how we go vs the Dogs/Hawks.
It was a terrible game between two very ordinary teams and both wouldnt have got much out of that IMO.
You cant sack Bolton on the back of that game or really critique games plans, players etc....
GC got the 4 points but not much else and we are where we were when the game started.....

My position on Bolts is well known, so suffice to say I agree.

Also agree about match review for both clubs. I wouldn't bother. Just consign that game to the dustbin of history and move on. Two average teams that feed off each other and the averageness just got worse as the game progressed.

Two things.

1. Why when we play a tall forwardline are we kicking it to Michael Gibbons?

I get it, we are trying to give the bloke a goal but how about getting a freaking win instead??

2. Walsh is already in our top 3 performers every week.  What a disgrace to the others.

Bolton won't be coaching next year.

Passengers,  F me we carry some passengers.

Of all the players selected from the VFL we select the most credentialled one... Who has delivered nothing.

Officially over Dow.   His JLT series  stank and he continues to do so. Needs a rocket,  his mistakes hurt. 

Don't get the hype with Chuck.  As a footballer, dumb as a box of hammers. Needs a dose of reality in the twos.

Plowman and Setterfield....need a run in the twos as well.

Stocker would want to be elite Stephen....you gave away what looks like pick one for that bloke.  How's that deal looking now, a touch expensive?

Another two win season coming up, where's the "green shoots" now Brendan??????

Couldn’t disagree more.
We should have won that game by 6 goals

We have no plan and play dumb footy

It’s got to be coaching

yep, either the plan is shocking or it's too complicated that the players don't get it....

we move the ball too slowly and never kick (even) towards the tall targets....Gibbons seemed more of a target than any other!  ::) ::)

Is Charlie being played out of position , trying to fit to many talks in the line up?

The three tall forwards is a dead end solution, we don't have the mid and smalls to carry so many tall forwards and in any case they just get in each others way. We need two tall forwards with two rucks out around the ground because our mids and smalls are weaklings. At least then when blokes like Simmo and Ed bomb the ball high and long we have a chance to bring it to ground!

Other clubs must be pissing themselves laughing about Gibbons, he's a mini-Casboult coach killer!

Is Charlie being played out of position , trying to fit to many talks in the line up?

He doesn’t work anywhere near hard enough

Looks very happy with himself when he kicks a goal.

Needs to get involved all over the ground.

He needs some time in the twos

Passengers,  F me we carry some passengers.

Of all the players selected from the VFL we select the most credentialled one... Who has delivered nothing.

Officially over Dow.   His JLT series  stank and he continues to do so. Needs a rocket,  his mistakes hurt. 

Don't get the hype with Chuck.  As a footballer, dumb as a box of hammers. Needs a dose of reality in the twos.

Plowman and Setterfield....need a run in the twos as well.

Stocker would want to be elite Stephen....you gave away what looks like pick one for that bloke.  How's that deal looking now, a touch expensive?

Another two win season coming up, where's the "green shoots" now Brendan??????

Fair summation Prof  O0

This will be an interesting thread. Im speechless right now.

Bolton won't be coaching next year.

Not unless a miracle occurs. Losing to a Qld team has lost our coaches their jobs before. So may this. It simply isn't good enough.

Sounded like it was still ok. i know when we were drafting we weren't taking $hit kicks.

We need elite kicks, like a junior Pendlebury, Dow was recuited for his breakaway pace......

Be glad we didnt get Jack Lukosius.....could be the next Jack Watts..

The three tall forwards is a dead end solution, we don't have the mid and smalls to carry so many tall forwards and in any case they just get in each others way. We need two tall forwards with two rucks out around the ground because our mids and smalls are weaklings. At least then when blokes like Simmo and Ed bomb the ball high and long we have a chance to bring it to ground!

Other clubs must be pissing themselves laughing about Gibbons, he's a mini-Casboult coach killer!

he was the least of our worries today.

Think Charlie (total shocker - 3rd time this season), Big H, Setters, Dow, Ed C., Fisher - all chopped it up badly when under ZERO pressure.

I thought the backs went pretty well as a unit.

Fair dinkum.  All you guys and girls saying we should stay fat with Bolton are like frogs unable to jump out of a pot being slowly heated to boiling point.

So apparently the logic is, sacking coaches hasn't served us well in the past 20 years so we should stop doing that.  You're all idiots as far as I'm concerned.  You know, if you toss a coin 99 times and it comes up heads every time there's still a 50% chance the next toss will turn up tails.

I've held off posting this season thinking I might go off half-cocked.  Well, I'm out.  A few years ago I said we should just fold as a going concern - maybe just a little tongue in cheek.  In retrospect it would have been a genius move worthy of the Crows recruiting department as then we could forever claim to be the greatest club of all time.  Now, we are irrelevant. An endless source of cheap jokes for Mick Molloy.

Stocker would want to be elite Stephen....you gave away what looks like pick one for that bloke.  How's that deal looking now, a touch expensive?

I suspect SOS placed his bets when he recruited Jack and Ben.

If they spend the bulk of their careers at Northern then SOS has his papers signed!

Guys like Gibbons and Cottrell are almost irrelevant by comparison!

ps Gibbons is a midfielder, not a small forward.

Why not play him in a position he knows how to play?

BB has the too cute bug too me thinks.

Fair dinkum.  All you guys and girls saying we should stay fat with Bolton are like frogs unable to jump out of a pot being slowly heated to boiling point.

So apparently the logic is, sacking coaches hasn't served us well in the past 20 years so we should stop doing that.  You're all idiots as far as I'm concerned.  You know, if you toss a coin 99 times and it comes up heads every time there's still a 50% chance the next toss will turn up tails.

I've held off posting this season thinking I might go off half-cocked.  Well, I'm out.  A few years ago I said we should just fold as a going concern - maybe just a little tongue in cheek.  In retrospect it would have been a genius move worthy of the Crows recruiting department as then we could forever claim to be the greatest club of all time.  Now, we are irrelevant. An endless source of cheap jokes for Mick Molloy.

Ratten had won 11 the season he got rolled IIRC?

I don't care if Setterfield gets rubbed out,  he's useless anyway.   Kennedy or JSOS can do his role, which is presumably some on ball role because I'll be buggered what he was doing today. At least JSOS plays like he gives a stuff.

Fair dinkum.  All you guys and girls saying we should stay fat with Bolton are like frogs unable to jump out of a pot being slowly heated to boiling point.

So apparently the logic is, sacking coaches hasn't served us well in the past 20 years so we should stop doing that.  You're all idiots as far as I'm concerned.  You know, if you toss a coin 99 times and it comes up heads every time there's still a 50% chance the next toss will turn up tails.

I've held off posting this season thinking I might go off half-cocked.  Well, I'm out.  A few years ago I said we should just fold as a going concern - maybe just a little tongue in cheek.  In retrospect it would have been a genius move worthy of the Crows recruiting department as then we could forever claim to be the greatest club of all time.  Now, we are irrelevant. An endless source of cheap jokes for Mick Molloy.

The coach isn't the problem. Modern football is more structured, more systematic, and more complex than it's ever been. You can't blame the coach for shocking turnovers, clangers, players that can't kick straight etc.

The coach isn't the problem. Modern football is more structured, more systematic, and more complex than it's ever been. You can't blame the coach for shocking turnovers, clangers, players that can't kick straight etc.

Yes and it's the coach's f'n role to get the players using such a system WITH skill....

It's 100% the coach's cop, sorry Paul.

Not unless a miracle occurs. Losing to a Qld team has lost our coaches their jobs before. So may this. It simply isn't good enough.

Yep - he needs to get in touch with Lazarus asap.

What system do we employ to move the ball into scoring positions?   Chaos theory?   Brownian motion?

Because there sure ain't any system or plan.... And that's a coaching issue.

The coach isn't the problem. Modern football is more structured, more systematic, and more complex than it's ever been. You can't blame the coach for shocking turnovers, clangers, players that can't kick straight etc.

Coach is a massive problem. That's 3 wins from 36 and 0-4 4th year in. Sorry, the buck stops right there. We know how to pick $hit coaches. We got one right since Parko and sacked him.

The coach isn't the problem. Modern football is more structured, more systematic, and more complex than it's ever been. You can't blame the coach for shocking turnovers, clangers, players that can't kick straight etc.

Agree, it's not the coach when it's the old blokes who should be better, the ones setting the example under pressure, yet they are the ones making the bulk of the clangers! This week Ed, Plowman, Simmo, etc., etc., shocking!

Our club won't/can't trade or retire them all, so the head coach will ultimately pay the price and the old blokes will survive.

But answer this question;

Which coaches have been in place developing those skills right through this horrible era?

That would be my first move!

Coach is a massive problem. That's 3 wins from 36 and 0-4 4th year in. Sorry, the buck stops right there. We know how to pick $hit coaches. We got one right since Parko and sacked him.

Yes, but the "we" that picks coaches has been different over the last 20 years. The importance of the senior coach is over stated by many on here, who fall into simplistic, old school thinking. But don't take my word for it :

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/time-to-cap-the-wages-of-senior-afl-coaches-leigh-matthews-20150530-ghd3l9.html

We played 2 patches of good footy - 10mins at the start of the 2nd and 10 mins at the start of the third. In that time we kicked 5 of our 8 goals. For the other 60mins it was largely a mess of skill errors and lack of poise. We have so many dumb footballers and have done for years and years. When the pressure came on in the last quarter we wilted as we always do.

I can't see how Bolton can keep his job next year. 4 games in and we are rock bottom on the ladder again. You can't sugar coat the fact that we can't score, and cant play anything more than the 10-15 mins of AFL standard football before we start to look like a VFL team.

Here a great stat from today - they had 96 marks in total for the day. 71 of those came from our kicks. 3 out of 4 of their marks came from intercepts!

Yes, but the "we" that picks coaches has been different over the last 20 years. The importance of the senior coach is over stated by many on here, who fall into simplistic, old school thinking. But don't take my word for it :

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/time-to-cap-the-wages-of-senior-afl-coaches-leigh-matthews-20150530-ghd3l9.html

I think the bigger problem is the old boys circuit, the ones that think the natural progression to the end of their playing career is to be an AFL assistant coach!

It's rarely one area that contributes to this team mis function , but it's the coach that will be replaced, we can't continue shuffling the players any more, have to try a different process, wether Bolts has the teaching process or not , it's either not being implemented, or not working. He gets the big bucks, and carries the can.

The coach isn’t the problem?

Geez you guys are in fairy land

You always wanna make excuses for these guys.
He is the problem
We have no system and no confidence

How can we simply forget about this game?

Last week it was The Gov that created a spark, and he looked the only forward today to look threatening, when he went of we had no targets

I think the bigger problem is the old boys circuit, the ones that think the natural progression to the end of their playing career is to be an AFL assistant coach!

I'd have no problem sacking Bolton if I thought it would achieve something. But I look at our recent history with senior coaches, I look at the Tigers, I look at the Pies and I simply don't see how it will solve anything.

Can I ask if we had won by 1 point would that have changed much?...just given us another false dawn?
Look at the game today, would you want to coach either of those teams?

Other part is if he was dumped say mid year, who would you look at?

Last week it was The Gov that created a spark, and he looked the only forward today to look threatening, when he went of we had no targets

Would help if the players streaming (being generous) into F50 actually kicked to a legitimate target!

Again, that's a coaching 101 issue.

Can I ask if we had won by 1 point would that have changed much?...just given us another false dawn?
Look at the game today, would you want to coach either of those teams?

Then Bolton get a 1 week reprieve, until the next loss, and then it's on again. Both teams were shocking. Is Dew also a problem ?

I'd have no problem sacking Bolton if I thought it would achieve something. But I look at our recent history with senior coaches, I look at the Tigers, I look at the Pies and I simply don't see how it will solve anything.

But both teams put a large number of past playing assistants to the scythe!

We've one there that seems to have survived four senior coaches!

Can I ask if we had won by 1 point would that have changed much?...just given us another false dawn?
Look at the game today, would you want to coach either of those teams?

It would have been a massive confidence boost, yes.

Yep we were deplorable. 

I still don't see how the coach is at fault for our entire team kicking it to Gibbons in one on one contests in forward 50.

Before anyone says otherwise, even superman cripps did it, when he had weitering standing right next to him in case of a hand off.

Yep we were deplorable. 

I still don't see how the coach is at fault for our entire team kicking it to Gibbons in one on one contests in forward 50.

Before anyone says otherwise, even superman cripps did it, when he had weitering standing right next to him in case of a hand off.

That's his job to create a system so that we don't.

Can I ask if we had won by 1 point would that have changed much?...just given us another false dawn?
Look at the game today, would you want to coach either of those teams?

Would a really good coach make them a much better team?

We have some serious talent on our list but the coach can’t get the best out of them.
There is a simple answer

Can I ask if we had won by 1 point would that have changed much?...just given us another false dawn?
Look at the game today, would you want to coach either of those teams?

Is this years group a more talented group than previous? If so and we are still not getting results , than its outside the players we need to look re change of direction.

We have a handful of highly potential or already stars that we all love to bang on about in the Pre season but we fail to admit that a huge chunk of our so called best 21 are footballers that are either 1)poor decision makers and or 2) poor executers by foot.

Time and time again we fail to hit a simple 20-30m pass and going into our forward line the choice of where to put the ball when you have not 1, not 2 not 3 but 4 tall marking forwards is simply beyond comprehension.

We are the dumbest group of footballer ever assembled as these traits have been at our club for the last 15 years.

Sick of saying good signs as there is a lot more horrible ones.

Yep we were deplorable. 

I still don't see how the coach is at fault for our entire team kicking it to Gibbons in one on one contests in forward 50.

Before anyone says otherwise, even superman cripps did it, when he had weitering standing right next to him in case of a hand off.

Thank-you Thry, it's not an unreasonable question, it's the sort of question you really want the media to ask!

Even worse when I've seen Weitering kick 15 goals in a junior game, and he's kicked multiple goals in an AFL game as a forward target!

I just saw the last 2 minutes on the computer. I still cannot believe it.
Yes, Paddy Dow made a bad mistake, but he then got the clearance only seconds afterwards. Don't throw him away yet.
The umpire not giving Jones that mark - I still can't believe it. One grab, man in front, no doubts at all, yet it is play on and they scored from it (1 point). 13 frees to 20. Difference between a win and a loss.

That said, we should be better and should have won by plenty. We had more talent on the field. But it isn't producing. As for Lobbe, he has a bit heart, but he is no longer a senior ruckman. Not even close.

As I have posted before, this rebuild has been done on very shakey foundations, as we just didn't have enough solid elder statesmen to start with. BB will be held responsible ultimately - whether the architects of it will also be remains to be seen. There will be at least another year of suffering after this, never mind who the coach may be, before we can even hope for any rise up from the bottom of the ladder, and that is best case scenario from what has been shown so far.

Is this years group a more talented group than previous? If so and we are still not getting results , than its outside the players we need to look re change of direction.

I find our side pretty decent on paper. Should be pushing top 10 4th year in.

On multiple occasions this season I've either seen or heard of moments in game were three Carlton players are standing inside F50 almost unattended, and we instead kick the ball long to small forwards outnumbered by defenders.

We have a handful of highly potential or already stars that we all love to bang on about in the Pre season but we fail to admit that a huge chunk of our so called best 21 are footballers that are either 1)poor decision makers and or 2) poor executers by foot.

Time and time again we fail to hit a simple 20-30m pass and going into our forward line the choice of where to put the ball when you have not 1, not 2 not 3 but 4 tall marking forwards is simply beyond comprehension.

We are the dumbest group of footballer ever assembled as these traits have been at our club for the last 15 years.

Sick of saying good signs as there is a lot more horrible ones.

Agree.

Dumb football way too often but that has to come back to coaching

Charlie Curnow has played 3 games and produced 3 shockers...what to do with him?

As I have posted before, this rebuild has been done on very shakey foundations, as we just didn't have enough solid elder statesmen to start with. BB will be held responsible ultimately - whether the architects of it will also be remains to be seen. There will be at least another year of suffering after this, never mind who the coach may be, before we can even hope for any rise up from the bottom of the ladder, and that is best case scenario from what has been shown so far.

Depends. Beverige got finals then a flag in the next two years after the Dogs were $hit under McCartney. Our side is better than what it is producing.

I just saw the last 2 minutes on the computer. I still cannot believe it.
Yes, Paddy Dow made a bad mistake, but he then got the clearance only seconds afterwards. Don't throw him away yet.
The umpire not giving Jones that mark - I still can't believe it. One grab, man in front, no doubts at all, yet it is play on and they scored from it (1 point). 13 frees to 20. Difference between a win and a loss.

That said, we should be better and should have won by plenty. We had more talent on the field. But it isn't producing. As for Lobbe, he has a bit heart, but he is no longer a senior ruckman. Not even close.

It's not the final minutes that are the problem, it's the rest of the game!

Through all this, I had to listen to a broadcast with commentators barracking for GC, they want us to be the tragedy!

On multiple occasions this season I've either seen or heard of moments in game were three Carlton players are standing inside F50 almost unattended, and we instead kick the ball long to small forwards outnumbered by defenders.

Would that be players decision, or a coaching direction? If it's done on a regular basis, than you would think its coaching, you would think players instinctively would go to the talls?

Charlie Curnow has played 3 games and produced 3 shockers...what to do with him?

Not that worried, he'll come good.

Two things.

1. Why when we play a tall forwardline are we kicking it to Michael Gibbons?

I get it, we are trying to give the bloke a goal but how about getting a freaking win instead??

2. Walsh is already in our top 3 performers every week.  What a disgrace to the others.

Take two. Exactly. WTF are our forwards up the ground and we kick it long to the guy who is suppose to be front and square and feeding of the crumbs!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was so livid after the game I have to go for a walk to cool off and IT HAS NOT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would a really good coach make them a much better team?

We have some serious talent on our list but the coach can’t get the best out of them.
There is a simple answer

Yep...I'd question the coaching but I'd also be taking a serious look at the so called serious talent..

Serious talent doesnt kick the ball like some of our blokes do and make simple errors...Nick Holman was more effective than some of our so called serious talent
who pick and choose when they want to get serious.....

There were certainly many critical moments we can bang on about.
Ed v Bowes stoppage snap, Dow or Charlie's poor i50 brain fade v 2m Peter's, kicking to Gibbons repeatedly v a talented AFL players....

In the end our poor skill and decisions left us short. I don't think GC would be any happier with their equally poor performance.

I thought we were:
Thrashed in the ruck yet didn't play to Witts dominance
So so in the midfield
Picked a tall fwd line yet didn't play to their advantage

Add MK and many more opportunities avail

Nonetheless a very winnable game goes begging.

A few who impressed
Jones and Weiters with good support from Daisy
Crippa (q1 aside), Samo, Fisher in patches, and of course Walsh. Dow solid inside and on the burst, let down by disposal.
Murphy provided the smarts. However, there were just too many poor decisions particularly going i50.
We also struggled to get the ball out of defense over the centre of the ground, especially q1.

In all. we gave GC the win. Addressing a few of the obvious faults and yes, we would have won.

Yep...I'd question the coaching but I'd also be taking a serious look at the so called serious talent..

Serious talent doesnt kick the ball like some of our blokes do and make simple errors...Nick Holman was more effective than some of our so called serious talent
who pick and choose when they want to get serious.....

I call it Gibbs/Murphy syndrome!

who pick and choose when they want to get serious.....

It's a worry Eb1, because it seems to be habitual!

I call it Gibbs/Murphy syndrome!

Sounds like Murphy stood up today, without him we'd have been out of it by 3/4 time!

Charlie Curnow has played 3 games and produced 3 shockers...what to do with him?

He should play twos and learn how hard he needs to work.
He has elite endurance and doesn’t use it

We need him to be a star not another jack watts

Surely Gibbo should be axed this week, hasn't added to the goal tally which is his spot currently, why hasn't he had mins in the midfield? Who replaces him? poulsen? Don't think so, we don't really have a small forward who scores, Wright in the last few yrs was the best option,

GC had a small D50, look at our bottom ranked players.

20th Casboult
21st McGovern
22nd McKay

I call it Gibbs/Murphy syndrome!

Culture
We have been poor in that area for 16 years.
Too many pedestrians

Yep...I'd question the coaching but I'd also be taking a serious look at the so called serious talent..

Serious talent doesnt kick the ball like some of our blokes do and make simple errors...Nick Holman was more effective than some of our so called serious talent
who pick and choose when they want to get serious.....

I believe this is a reflection on the prevalent playing group culture which is the result of a lack of the right attitudes within our senior group over many years. We need to take some drastic action here imo.

It's a worry Eb1, because it seems to be habitual!

Sounds like Murphy stood up today, without him we'd have been out of it by 3/4 time!

Murphy was ok today but put in a few shocking kicks like many others....

We played 2 patches of good footy - 10mins at the start of the 2nd and 10 mins at the start of the third. In that time we kicked 5 of our 8 goals. For the other 60mins it was largely a mess of skill errors and lack of poise. We have so many dumb footballers and have done for years and years. When the pressure came on in the last quarter we wilted as we always do.

I can't see how Bolton can keep his job next year. 4 games in and we are rock bottom on the ladder again. You can't sugar coat the fact that we can't score, and cant play anything more than the 10-15 mins of AFL standard football before we start to look like a VFL team.

Here a great stat from today - they had 96 marks in total for the day. 71 of those came from our kicks. 3 out of 4 of their marks came from intercepts!

Hmm. I had the same recurring nightmare for four weeks now. We play 2 good patches or quarters of football and then go to sleep and get rolled.

I believe this is a reflection on the prevalent playing group culture which is the result of a lack of the right attitudes within our senior group over many years. We need to take some drastic action here imo.

That's my thoughts, changing coach takes us nowhere, but I doubt our club has the balls to make the playing list decision.

We've a list full of Pavlov's Dogs, trained to lose!

leaving aside the dreadful field kicking, dud handballs, etc, etc, how is it that with a senior coach and I don't know how many assistants, we have so many players whose dreadful decision making wouldn't be tolerated in sides playing local football?

I saw no passion, intensity or spirit for the game from numerous players who have been gifted games not earning them. Played like a bunch of kids who have won junior b&fs but now it’s tough panic and can’t kick or handball

Yep...I'd question the coaching but I'd also be taking a serious look at the so called serious talent..

Serious talent doesnt kick the ball like some of our blokes do and make simple errors...Nick Holman was more effective than some of our so called serious talent
who pick and choose when they want to get serious.....

Coach isn't getting the best out of that talent. If they're picking and choosing they are not totally respecting the coach as they should.

I saw no passion, intensity or spirit for the game from numerous players who have been gifted games not earning them. Played like a bunch of kids who have won junior b&fs but now it’s tough panic and can’t kick or handball

Ironically, the only one showing any passion is Daisy imo,

Ironically, the only one showing any passion is Daisy imo,

We've said as much several weeks in a row!

Here it is 4 weeks in and another spoon beckons. The ineptitude shown today defies belief. I have not seen so many spuds in the one team at the one time, oh wait yes I have. For many years now.
Gibbons has to go. Why did we keep kicking it to him, why??!
Obrien pffft. Another great pick. Why was he even selected?
Ed just as stupid as his younger brother but with incredibly worse skills. The number 1 butcher of the ball in the entire AFL. Thanks for missing that soda in the last. I'm surprised it didn't go out on the full.
Levi one reasonible game then back to shizen ... AGAIN.
Simmo should have retired a long long time ago
Plowman just makes too many mistakes
Dow how could this kid be a top draft pick? He can't kick?
Bumbling stumbling pretenders. I love Cripps, he doesn't deserve this tripe. I think we should do the honourable thing and release him after the 2 years are up and allow him the joy of victory somewhere else.
Harry no impact
McGovern, oh geez, you're sent down back as the loose in the last minutes of the game and in the frantic last seconds yo u're not in the goal square. Under 10's stuff.
Lobbe, no impact. I'd play an injured Kreuzer ahead of him.
Murph playing bruise free football .... AGAIN. Lots of touches but doesn't hurt anyone.
Setterfield, a fumbling phoney. Will get weeks for his week act on that kid. They'll probably bring Polsen back in for him


Well we'll be coming up against some really good teams shortly and boy we will get what for.then

Culture
We have been poor in that area for 16 years.
Too many pedestrians

Too many tossers more like it.  Fevola was tolerated because Jeanie thought he was good with the kids. Adelaide drop Gibbs which we didn't have the guts to do for 10 years. Total utter shambles.

Watching Carlton is just a numb experience now.  The young son was even asking Siri after the game if he could see a Carlton win...

My grumpiness is not with the younger players that will make mistakes.  Its the dismal lack of leadership by the senior players that is killing us.  Ed Curnow could have sealed the game but again (again and again) hacked his kick.  Adding another lousy stat to another dismal day replete with turnovers and missed opportunities.  Murphy played well but still second guesses himself and kicks it high and slow.   He is not going to change, we have to accept the limitations of our senior cohort as league players.  Too many turnovers and halting, static play that is indicative of a side that has been turned over and lacks much at the top.

Weitering was our best, along with Cripps.  Jones was very good, and Walsh stood out as one of the hardest runners I have seen.  But it is deeply worrying when he has been in our top 3 for the first four games. 

Hard to see who we are going to beat this year.

Ironically, the only one showing any passion is Daisy imo,

Sexton did pretty well on him

I thought Cripps was very good

It would have been a massive confidence boost, yes.

A win is a win no matter how you get it. Gold Coast 3 wins and 1 loss by a point. I know what I would like to see.

I call it Gibbs/Murphy syndrome!

Wizard of Oz syndrome - no brains, no heart or courage and we just want to go home
It’s an epidemic at Carlton

We lost mainly because our disposal is barely VFL standard, pure and simple.
It's too late to go back to square one again this time around so we'll just blunder on and eventually reach 10th or 9th,then Walsh and Cripps will go and then we'll go back to square one again.

We lost mainly because our disposal is barely VFL standard, pure and simple.
It's too late to go back to square one again this time around so we'll just blunder on and eventually reach 10th or 9th,then Walsh and Cripps will go and then we'll go back to square one again.

The writing is on the wall, even if we do improve dramatically for the remained of this season I suspect we'd almost have to make finals this year to have a chance of avoiding that happening!

Their managers will already be looking for the out!

Sexton did pretty well on him

I thought Cripps was very good

JH, sorry Cripps tends to be a given for me . Wasn't saying Daisy was our best player or anything - he just seems like he really cares when others around him look indifferent by comparison.

Surely Gibbo should be axed this week, hasn't added to the goal tally which is his spot currently, why hasn't he had mins in the midfield? Who replaces him? poulsen? Don't think so, we don't really have a small forward who scores, Wright in the last few yrs was the best option,

Problem I see is that Gibbons isn't a small forward. He's a small mid. Play him in position and see what he brings. Without someone like Pickett (who I think could improve defensively and be a headache) or ??LeBois improving, I'd try Murphy. We seem without many options there. Polson is good defensively but doesn't pressure the scoreboard. I guess, although not small, JSOS might be a good option.

Ironically, the only one showing any passion is Daisy imo,

Loved how he was 1 on 1 on Sexton in the backline. Stood there and watching him run for the ball, collect it and snap it over daisy's head.

I saw no passion, intensity or spirit for the game from numerous players who have been gifted games not earning them. Played like a bunch of kids who have won junior b&fs but now it’s tough panic and can’t kick or handball

This is probably our biggest issue.
We don’t try.
No intensity to win the ball like it’s a matter of life and death. (Except Cripps)
No chasing hard to the last metre to pressure the kicker. How often do you see someone jog towards an opponent to look they are applying pressure but not really going hard?
No pushing back harder than our opponents.
No busting a gut to burst through the midfield to set things up.

If we look like losing next week we should start a fight. All in brawl. Just to see who stands together and who sits out.

God we miss Doc.

We miss Kreuzer, Cunningham and Willo but God we miss Doc.

Dumb have no idea how play or how to win getting a big joke 

Problem I see is that Gibbons isn't a small forward. He's a small mid.

Gibbon's not an AFL mid, not by a long way, the tell is he can't win one on ones inside F50!

AFL defenders should fear being one on one deep in the scoring zone against an AFL mid, the defenders dispose of Gibbons way too easily!

We played 2 patches of good footy - 10mins at the start of the 2nd and 10 mins at the start of the third. In that time we kicked 5 of our 8 goals. For the other 60mins it was largely a mess of skill errors and lack of poise. We have so many dumb footballers and have done for years and years. When the pressure came on in the last quarter we wilted as we always do.

I can't see how Bolton can keep his job next year. 4 games in and we are rock bottom on the ladder again. You can't sugar coat the fact that we can't score, and cant play anything more than the 10-15 mins of AFL standard football before we start to look like a VFL team.

Here a great stat from today - they had 96 marks in total for the day. 71 of those came from our kicks. 3 out of 4 of their marks came from intercepts!

Who is responsible for player skills? Who is our skills coach? Who is the boss of our skills coach (ultimately responsible)?

Problem I see is that Gibbons isn't a small forward. He's a small mid. Play him in position and see what he brings. Without someone like Pickett (who I think could improve defensively and be a headache) or ??LeBois improving, I'd try Murphy. We seem without many options there. Polson is good defensively but doesn't pressure the scoreboard. I guess, although not small, JSOS might be a good option.

Yep, we took the best midfielder from the vfl and turned him into nothing.

Problem is we can’t run a midfield of ed, Murphy, Gibbons, Fisher and SPS. It’s too small in the modern game.

With Pickett out we probably have to resort to Fasolo and Garlett as our small forwards. Then go to the mid year draft and take whoever is doing best in the state leagues.

Though we may also need a running half back if Williamson doesn’t come good by then.

Bolton is responsible. Might not be his fault but he is responsible. His time is up.

Need to look to the future before we burn another generation of first round picks.

Then Bolton get a 1 week reprieve, until the next loss, and then it's on again. Both teams were shocking. Is Dew also a problem ?

He has 3 wins thus far in 2019, way better than our entire 2018. His side is improving. So I'm guessing, not.

Bolton is responsible. Might not be his fault but he is responsible. His time is up.

Need to look to the future before we burn another generation of first round picks.

Mick Malthouse is not coming back, not matter what!

Yep we were deplorable. 

I still don't see how the coach is at fault for our entire team kicking it to Gibbons in one on one contests in forward 50.

Before anyone says otherwise, even superman cripps did it, when he had weitering standing right next to him in case of a hand off.

Obviously an instruction... or there is no instruction. If your side cannot and do not play united footy, consistently, who do you ask questions of?

Mick Malthouse is not coming back, not matter what!

Could you imagine this forum if Mick had Bolton's record?

We should just stop stuffing around and open our wallets and get the best coach in the AFL.

Loved how he was 1 on 1 on Sexton in the backline. Stood there and watching him run for the ball, collect it and snap it over daisy's head.

Easy to pick on individual incidents and every one of our players were making mistakes right left and centre. I think the one you refer to was quite late in the game when everyone was pretty much spent anyway. As I said, I am not promoting Daisy as one of our best performers - he also makes mistakes in the overall chaos of our so-called game plan. He, though, shows a helluva a lot more passion and effort than most if not all of the rest of our team, aside from Cripps, who seem indifferent. That is a massive worry imo.

People laughed at my post a while back when I said Weitering should be our captain long term, yet I stand by that because long term he is our version of Tom Harley.

If Weitering was captain his efforts to get lose within range of goal would be respected!

Cripps game and the game of players around him won't change, captain or not!

Cripps was the easy and obvious pick, but was he the smart pick?

People laughed at my post a while back when I said Weitering should be our captain long term, yet I stand by that because long term he is our version of Tom Harley.

if it wasnt for Weiters and Jones, I would guess our losses would have alot heavier.

Easy to pick on individual incidents and every one of our players were making mistakes right left and centre. I think the one you refer to was quite late in the game when everyone was pretty much spent anyway. As I said, I am not promoting Daisy as one of our best performers - he also makes mistakes in the overall chaos of our so-called game plan. He, though, shows a helluva a lot more passion and effort than most if not all of the rest of our team, aside from Cripps, who seem indifferent. That is a massive worry imo.

I thought Weitering and Jones should quite a lot today.
Very happy with their passion and intensity and I have been no fan of Jones in the past.

Bolton is responsible. Might not be his fault but he is responsible. His time is up.

Need to look to the future before we burn another generation of first round picks.

What's your solution ?

People laughed at my post a while back when I said Weitering should be our captain long term, yet I stand by that because long term he is our version of Tom Harley.

If Weitering was captain his efforts to get lose within range of goal would be respected!

Cripps game and the game of players around him won't change, captain or not!

Cripps was the easy and obvious pick, but was he the smart pick?

Weiters is really coming of age, showing everything you'd hope to see from a young man in a KP role. If he can develop, and Liam Jones can be transformed, surely others can take their game to the next level. If a few do so this year, we'll get over the line. Charlie is one I expect to pick up soon.

Ironically, the only one showing any passion is Daisy imo,

Ironic?

I've probably been Daisy's bandwagon #1 ticket holder since the day he was recruited....and reason being was because he would show the rest of our rabble how to go about it, continually.

It was never about how good of a player he was/is/will be, it was about effort, brains and work rate. He has been to the top of the tree and knows whats required to get there. We cannot say the same of any other player on the list.

We need more daisy types on the list, and we'll 'magically' improve.

0-4.....Groundhog Day  ::) ::) ::)

God we miss Doc.

We miss Kreuzer, Cunningham and Willo but God we miss Doc.

I’m interested in the ‘love’ for Cunningham. If we are depending on his return, I’d be worried. Yet to show any consistency over a sustained period. Could be ok, but by no means a walk up selection lock.

It takes an extraordinary talented football team to find so many ways to lose, to snatch so often defeat from the jaws of victory.

Be interesting to see Juddy (who is BBs boss) mock, snide and deride honest questions about how a seemingly talented group of players can be so rudderless and deeply fragmented.

Sad fact is that very few supporters are actually surprised by today's monumental cock-up.

Well, there is only one side in the competition, winless. No hiding now. No getting off lightly.

But BB does continue to deliver on his brief to eliminate hidings, keeping losses to a minimum.

Even a pack of amateurs can put clumsy pressure on us and we fold.

People laughed at my post a while back when I said Weitering should be our captain long term, yet I stand by that because long term he is our version of Tom Harley.

If Weitering was captain his efforts to get lose within range of goal would be respected!

Cripps game and the game of players around him won't change, captain or not!

Cripps was the easy and obvious pick, but was he the smart pick?

What are you talking about. Why shouldn't Cripps be Captain?

Weiters? Well on last year's form he was lucky to get a  game!

Cripps, Weitering and Walsh led the way today.

Jones was brilliant too.

People laughed at my post a while back when I said Weitering should be our captain long term, yet I stand by that because long term he is our version of Tom Harley.

If Weitering was captain his efforts to get lose within range of goal would be respected!

Cripps game and the game of players around him won't change, captain or not!

Cripps was the easy and obvious pick, but was he the smart pick?

Looked like Weitering was giving a pep talk in the huddle on the ground after the final siren.

Other than Kreuzer and Jack very few are pressing their case for selection, so there's not much that we can do.
'
changes this week
Omitted - Lobbe, Ed Curnow (tries hard but disposal and decison making is so bad that he's costing us 4-5 goals a game)
In - Kreuzer, Silvagni

positional changes to consider
- Murphy, Silvagni Forward
- O'Brien Half Back
- Gibbons, C Curnow into the midfield
- Kreuzer and Cas to share ruck

So last week people start calling for Boltons head because, despite more scoring shots than the opposition, we lose.
This week people continue to call for his head because we were leading the game for 80+ minutes and lost it in the last 30 seconds.

These are the same people that want to see effort and improvement.
The same people that point to our % as a measure of performance.

So many simple decisions and non-decisions that could have worked for us, but ultimately worked against us, cost us the game.....and Bolton cops all the flack.

I've just read 9 pages of this and not a single person has questioned murphys dribble kick into the goal square (with players in the square) with only seconds left on the clock, and ball 30m out from goal.

Why would you not kick it UP at goal FFS! That is a 250+ game player who did that off his own bat, and no amount of coaching from Bolton or anyone else would've changed that instinct from Murph in that moment.

I know emotions are high at the moment, but f*** me i can't stand reading these pages at present. This kind of blind hatred is going to get Bolton sacked, and set the club back years again. Then 5-10 years from now we'll start pining for Bolts to come back in the same way we are doing for Ratts now.

Cmon people. WE are the problem as much as anything that happens on match day. We put the pressure on the club powerbrokers along with the media that ultimately lead us to make emotive decisions, that end up setting the club back.

So last week people start calling for Boltons head because, despite more scoring shots than the opposition, we lose.
This week people continue to call for his head because we were leading the game for 80+ minutes and lost it in the last 30 seconds.

These are the same people that want to see effort and improvement.
The same people that point to our % as a measure of performance.

So many simple decisions and non-decisions that could have worked for us, but ultimately worked against us, cost us the game.....and Bolton cops all the flack.

I've just read 9 pages of this and not a single person has questioned murphys dribble kick into the goal square (with players in the square) with only seconds left on the clock, and ball 30m out from goal.

Why would you not kick it UP at goal FFS! That is a 250+ game player who did that off his own bat, and no amount of coaching from Bolton or anyone else would've changed that instinct from Murph in that moment.

I know emotions are high at the moment, but f*** me i can't stand reading these pages at present. This kind of blind hatred is going to get Bolton sacked, and set the club back years again. Then 5-10 years from now we'll start pining for Bolts to come back in the same way we are doing for Ratts now.

Cmon people. WE are the problem as much as anything that happens on match day. We put the pressure on the club powerbrokers along with the media that ultimately lead us to make emotive decisions, that end up setting the club back.

I agree with this, changing the coach wont achieve a thing.

We probably would want to shelve the filming of "the journey" though

We'll be a better team when Murph retires, sad to say. In my opinion.

Here's the ladder, not miles off in terms of F & A.

Just can't win.

Looked like Weitering was giving a pep talk in the huddle on the ground after the final siren.

He was. Knew once he had a proper role he'd be a player and a leader. Typically we confused him as to his role and he was lost.

Murphy and Simpson need to go now.

So last week people start calling for Boltons head because, despite more scoring shots than the opposition, we lose.
This week people continue to call for his head because we were leading the game for 80+ minutes and lost it in the last 30 seconds.

These are the same people that want to see effort and improvement.
The same people that point to our % as a measure of performance.

So many simple decisions and non-decisions that could have worked for us, but ultimately worked against us, cost us the game.....and Bolton cops all the flack.

I've just read 9 pages of this and not a single person has questioned murphys dribble kick into the goal square (with players in the square) with only seconds left on the clock, and ball 30m out from goal.

Why would you not kick it UP at goal FFS! That is a 250+ game player who did that off his own bat, and no amount of coaching from Bolton or anyone else would've changed that instinct from Murph in that moment.

I know emotions are high at the moment, but f*** me i can't stand reading these pages at present. This kind of blind hatred is going to get Bolton sacked, and set the club back years again. Then 5-10 years from now we'll start pining for Bolts to come back in the same way we are doing for Ratts now.

Cmon people. WE are the problem as much as anything that happens on match day. We put the pressure on the club powerbrokers along with the media that ultimately lead us to make emotive decisions, that end up setting the club back.

I've also read every page and comment and there was no 'blind hatred' to be seen. Disappointment, hurt, confusion, annoyance, disillusionment and doubt... yes ...hatred? Nuh. I suspect you're been excessive for effect and to attempt to garner support for your perspective.

Folks are only commenting on what they see. BB may be well liked, but is he respected? Does he really know what he is doing? We just don't know so we look at the evidence (no promises & cliches). And the facts. And they're damning. Further decline.

Murphy and Simpson need to go now.

lets say we did that now. who replaces them this week?

A shot of Bolton on C7 news receiving comfort from Liddle after the match was excruciating and quite pitiful to watch.

ALL summer should have spent to whatever necessary degree to improve field kicking.

Some serious soul searching is now an imperative and the look on Walls face in the box said a lot. 



 

Other than Kreuzer and Jack very few are pressing their case for selection, so there's not much that we can do.
'
changes this week
Omitted - Lobbe, Ed Curnow (tries hard but disposal and decison making is so bad that he's costing us 4-5 goals a game)
In - Kreuzer, Silvagni

positional changes to consider
- Murphy, Silvagni Forward
- O'Brien Half Back
- Gibbons, C Curnow into the midfield
- Kreuzer and Cas to share ruck

Out: Lobbe, O’Brien, Gibbons, Plowman
In: Kreuzer, Kennedy, Garlett, Silvagni

Lucky ones because there’s nobody else: Ed, Dow

I’d like Kreuzer to ruck solo the whole match, but it’s likely he isn’t match fit yet and needs Cas to spend a fair bit of time in the middle. Luckily the dogs have a weak ruck division.

I've also read every page and comment and there was no 'blind hatred' to be seen. Disappointment, hurt, confusion, annoyance, disillusionment and doubt... yes ...hatred? Nuh. I suspect you're been excessive for effect and to attempt to garner support for your perspective.

Folks are only commenting on what they see. BB may be well liked, but is he respected? Does he really know what he is doing? We just don't know so we look at the evidence (no promises & cliches). And the facts. And they're damning. Further decline.

How many Carlton players other than Cripps would make Collingwood's team? Once you've answered that, you'll see BB's problem

lets say we did that now. who replaces them this week?

It doesn't matter. You and I can play and the result is the same as it has been every week for the last 2 years.

Time to play all the kids.

People laughed at my post a while back when I said Weitering should be our captain long term, yet I stand by that because long term he is our version of Tom Harley.

If Weitering was captain his efforts to get lose within range of goal would be respected!

Cripps game and the game of players around him won't change, captain or not!

Cripps was the easy and obvious pick, but was he the smart pick?

Out of all that garbage today, this is your concern?

It doesn't matter. You and I can play and the result is the same as it has been every week for the last 2 years.

Time to play all the kids.

I’m pretty sure that if i lined up we’d be losing by more

Murphy is finished as an AFL footballer.  I'll be amazed if sees the season out.

How many Carlton players other than Cripps would make Collingwood's team? Once you've answered that, you'll see BB's problem

Walsh, Weeters, Docherty, McGovern - maybe Daisy, Samo, and Fisher at a pinch.

It doesn't matter. You and I can play and the result is the same as it has been every week for the last 2 years.

Time to play all the kids.

it matters and we'll go even further backwards.

I am looking forward to the return of Cunningham & Williamson - other than those guys I'm not sure which "kids" are banging down the door for selection.

There's at least four in the senior side already who shouldn't be there.  Why play more... Oh,  because our senior players are an even bigger problem than the kids.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-04-14/r4-bolton-postmatch

Walsh, Weeters, Docherty, McGovern - maybe Daisy, Samo, and Fisher at a pinch.

yep, around 4 or 5 of 22, which means that the pies have around 18 better players on the field than Carlton. Wouldn't be a walk in the park coaching a side with that profile after turning over 70% of the list over the last 36 months.

We need to keep this in perspective

I’m pretty sure that if i lined up we’d be losing by more

Yep, same here. I'd get the same answer that Parko gave Diesel when he first tried out for the club, "too fat, too slow and not good enough."

How many Carlton players other than Cripps would make Collingwood's team? Once you've answered that, you'll see BB's problem

Impossible to speculate as so few of our players play with confidence and composure, whereas so many of the Rottingwood players play with confidence, composure and assurance... they know what they're doing, on the same page.

A more relevant question might be, how many of Collingwood's really good players would play well at Carlton? Very few, I bet.

yep, around 4 or 5 of 22, which means that the pies have around 18 better players on the field than Carlton. Wouldn't be a walk in the park coaching a side with that profile after turning over 70% of the list over the last 36 months.

We need to keep this in perspective

Yes agree. Also, we need to be mindful that some of the others are still young and developing.

But you'd give it your absolute level best Paul,  you'd have a serious bloody go.   You wouldn't leave anything on the park.

yep, around 4 or 5 of 22, which means that the pies have around 18 better players on the field than Carlton. Wouldn't be a walk in the park coaching a side with that profile after turning over 70% of the list over the last 36 months.

We need to keep this in perspective

Sorry, mate, very poor logic.

Sorry, mate, very poor logic.

Indeed, our kids are 20-22 theirs, in general, 2-4 years older....

It takes an extraordinary talented football team to find so many ways to lose, to snatch so often defeat from the jaws of victory.

Be interesting to see Juddy (who is BBs boss) mock, snide and deride honest questions about how a seemingly talented group of players can be so rudderless and deeply fragmented.

Sad fact is that very few supporters are actually surprised by today's monumental cock-up.

Well, there is only one side in the competition, winless. No hiding now. No getting off lightly.

But BB does continue to deliver on his brief to eliminate hidings, keeping losses to a minimum.

Even a pack of amateurs can put clumsy pressure on us and we fold.

Baggers I could see how it was going to play out and it did. Dumb is the best word to describe how our blokes play, we find a way to manufacture a loss, its unbelievable. The non mark to Jones was a disgrace but as soon as the ball went deep in their fwd line I knew one of the following was going to occur:
- Give away a stupid free kick in front of goal
- We would push the ball out of the pack to their advantage
- We would leave blokes unattended deep and close to goal.
Zero pressure on the fwds, free Suns players everywhere. Zero awareness, zero attention to detail. FFS surely they practice and drill that scenario and should know what to do. Our defenders played well all day but they should have "called the play" to all the players who came in to help. Get  shoulder to shoulder with every fwd, its basic stuff.
Our method of play is shambolic. The fwd line is dysfunctional, unstructured and clueless ATM. They cant make decent position or present to the ball carrier resulting in the ball carrier having no option but to bomb it in in hope. They seem to push up the ground and then not get back in time. We continue to miss sitters. If Teague is in charge of it he needs to go or give the line to another coach. Its embarrassing.

I’d like Kreuzer to ruck solo the whole match, but it’s likely he isn’t match fit yet and needs Cas to spend a fair bit of time in the middle. Luckily the dogs have a weak ruck division.

English beat Grundy on Friday night, he's very promising

Just saw that last passage of play.  Murph's miskick into the forward line is only matched in its level of ineptitude by his failure to do the right thing by the club and retire 3 seasons ago.

But you'd give it your absolute level best Paul,  you'd have a serious bloody go.   You wouldn't leave anything on the park.

Not sure about that, but thanks for the compliment.

Impossible to speculate as so few of our players play with confidence and composure, whereas so many of the Rottingwood players play with confidence, composure and assurance... they know what they're doing, on the same page.

A more relevant question might be, how many of Collingwood's really good players would play well at Carlton? Very few, I bet.

Its cetainly harder playing at a lowly ranked club when handballs are received at your ankles as opposed to in front of your chest, but I suspect that all of Beams, Pendlebury, Treloar, Stevenson, Elliott, DeGoey, Adams, J Thomas wouldn't have too many problems going and getting the ball and delivering it to one of their teammates. A little bit like Sam Walsh!

I've also read every page and comment and there was no 'blind hatred' to be seen. Disappointment, hurt, confusion, annoyance, disillusionment and doubt... yes ...hatred? Nuh. I suspect you're been excessive for effect and to attempt to garner support for your perspective.

Folks are only commenting on what they see. BB may be well liked, but is he respected? Does he really know what he is doing? We just don't know so we look at the evidence (no promises & cliches). And the facts. And they're damning. Further decline.

Oh thats right, i forgot the #1 reason for hating Bolton is the way he speaks.  ::) Too many cliches.

Must be why you picked up on 'blind hatred' and ignored the actual crux of the post.

Lets look at facts.

1. We've been in every game this year.
2. We've been steadily getting closer to a win each week. Last week it was goal accuracy that could've changed the result. This week a multitude of 50-50s that cost us. We were in front for over 80% of the game.
3. There has been some steady improvement from our oldest group of younger players
- Weitering
- SPS
etc
4. The older players are starting to decline, but the kids coming through are improving by more.
5. For the 2nd year running we've lost one of our most important players for the year in Doc.
6. We have not had one of our most important players, Kreuzer, at our disposal at all so far, and have been forced to play our 2nd, 3rd and 4th rucks thus far. Our 5th ruck is injured otherwise he probably would've got a game too.
7. Overall, there is clear improvement in almost all areas except one glaring one - the win column.

Yes, we are playing a lot of players that have not played with eachother previous to this year.
Yes, we are playing a lot of kids who will make mistakes, and need to make mistakes.
Yes, it is frustrating as hell, but don't let your emotions override the logical side of your brain.

The sky is not falling.

Hatred is a darn emotive word - and knowing your form, chosen quite deliberately.

Fact is any Club can put only up with bad losses for so long - Bolton's chances are becoming fewer....

Hatred is a darn emotive word - and knowing your form, chosen quite deliberately.

Fact is any Club can put only up with bad losses for so long - Bolton's chances are becoming fewer....

Ha, thats a laugh.

Perhaps you would've preferred 'Crock'?

Sorry, mate, very poor logic.

Carlton's players < Collingwood's players. Harder to coach Carlton. Not too much wrong with that.

Pls reflect on your response.

Good press conference from Bolton.

Little tiresome the 'sack the coach' rhetoric. Some smarter decisions and some better kicking would have seen us win. We are getting better very slowly and its frustrating to keep racking up the losses, but this is a long game. Turning over the players we have is going to take a long time to bear fruit.  Not sure how the howlers from our experienced players an be laid at the feet of the coach.

We're not getting better.

Murphy and Simpson need to go now.

Please God make this happen.

That last kick from Murphy typifies Murphy as a player. F##k me a dribble kick from 40 metres out? Genius! Marc, just retire. You're now embarassing yourself...

Good press conference from Bolton.

Little tiresome the 'sack the coach' rhetoric. Some smarter decisions and some better kicking would have seen us win. We are getting better very slowly and its frustrating to keep racking up the losses, but this is a long game. Turning over the players we have is going to take a long time to bear fruit.  Not sure how the howlers from our experienced players an be laid at the feet of the coach.

agreed

I think the sky is falling actually and I’ve been a huge advocate for BB but there are massive problems down CFC land.

Don’t worry about Murphy’s miskick At the end, we were 20 points up in the third and had it in our f50 multiple times with not even a behind!

There was a really stupid deliberate that I think Newman did, really obviously - like mate we can all f’ing see you tap the ball very deliberately over the line! Then that last passage down to the Suns I knew they’d have loose players because we never MAN THE screw UP! Ever!  Why?! Why can’t we do this fundamentally easy thing???

English beat Grundy on Friday night, he's very promising

Grundy won the tap count 58-6, although that doesn"t always mean alot. Pies won the centre clearances 10-7 and overall 33-26. Grundy had 23 touches 4 marks, 8 tackles, English 17 touches, 6 marks, 6 tackles so didn't necessarily beat him but around the ground he acquitted himself well against top opposition.

Anyway, we digress.

Please God make this happen.

That last kick from Murphy typifies Murphy as a player. F##k me a dribble kick from 40 metres out? Genius! Marc, just retire. You're now embarassing yourself...

Poor decision but calling for his retirement now is a complete overreaction. He may well feel like retiring but we need him playing well. I'd like to see him spend more time forward.

Please God make this happen.

That last kick from Murphy typifies Murphy as a player. F##k me a dribble kick from 40 metres out? Genius! Marc, just retire. You're now embarassing yourself...

Murph must be mentoring young Paddy....

Carlton's players < Collingwood's players. Harder to coach Carlton. Not too much wrong with that.

Pls reflect on your response.

3 wins from 36, 0-4, loss to the GC, rudderless, structureless, poorly drilled, game plan still don't know what it is. Hate to say it, that's coaching and that record is diabolical 4th year in. Something has to change there. Can't defend that $hit. Not as if the side is too bad now. Coach is getting nothing out of them.

3 wins from 36, 0-4, loss to the GC, rudderless, structureless, poorly drilled, game plan still don't know what it is. Hate to say it, that's coaching and that record is diabolical 4th year in. Something has to change there. Can't defend that $hit. Not as if the side is too bad now. Coach is getting nothing out of them.

But you've just read pages of people complaining about poor decisions and skill errors that cut across instructions from BB. His press conference makes it clear that the players are not doing what they've been asked.

The issue is that BB cant simply drop the underperformers because there's SFA to promote from the VFL.

I'm not happy with our current predicament, but it is what it is and changing the coach will set us back.

3 wins from 36, 0-4, loss to the GC, rudderless, structureless, poorly drilled, game plan still don't know what it is. Hate to say it, that's coaching and that record is diabolical 4th year in. Something has to change there. Can't defend that $hit. Not as if the side is too bad now. Coach is getting nothing out of them.

We're finding new ways to play terrible football. Why?

Grundy won the tap count 58-6, although that doesn"t always mean alot. Pies won the centre clearances 10-7 and overall 33-26. Grundy had 23 touches 4 marks, 8 tackles, English 17 touches, 6 marks, 6 tackles so didn't necessarily beat him but around the ground he acquitted himself well against top opposition.

Anyway, we digress.

Yep...Grundy murdered him in the ruck but the Dogs kid is impressive in terms of his attack on the ball and ground skills, Kreuzer should dominate but how many years do we have left in Kreuzer?

3 wins from 36, 0-4, loss to the GC, rudderless, structureless, poorly drilled, game plan still don't know what it is. Hate to say it, that's coaching and that record is diabolical 4th year in. Something has to change there. Can't defend that $hit. Not as if the side is too bad now. Coach is getting nothing out of them.

Jimbo.

Would you prefer a side that wins 2 games in say 10 where you get belted in the other 8.
or
A side that is in every game but can't quite get over the line.....but has no ceiling on the amount of improvement.

With the first one, you're a pretender who gets lucky.
With the second one, you're a battler whose time is coming and could turn the corner any second.

Your focus is on one thing, wins and losses. You need to look beyond that. Perhaps you think we should bring back Pagan? He gave us more wins, but we were largely more irrelevant then.

Good press conference from Bolton.

Little tiresome the 'sack the coach' rhetoric. Some smarter decisions and some better kicking would have seen us win. We are getting better very slowly and its frustrating to keep racking up the losses, but this is a long game. Turning over the players we have is going to take a long time to bear fruit.  Not sure how the howlers from our experienced players an be laid at the feet of the coach.

Respectfully disagree, Vivian. Same old, same old... and isn't it his job, especially into his 4th year, to ensure we ensure the very basics are done well?

What I did find fascinating is that he pumped up the tyres of Dale Amos as the defensive coach yet singled out a disconnect between midfield and forward line (which looked pretty spot on). Did he just tell us that there is an issue with the midfield coach? With the forward line coach? With their relationship... With his relationship with one of them or both?

Execution aside,their decision making is just diabolical.

English beat Grundy on Friday night, he's very promising

How is losing the hitouts 60-6 and disposals 23-17 beating someone?

Dew is honest and has a GSOH - called the game, or parts of it, The Benny Hill Show and concedes the Suns were lucky to win.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-04-14/dew-rides-the-rollercoaster-in-benny-hill-show-finish

Murph must be mentoring young Paddy....

That's why he needs to go.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-04-14/vfl-kreuzer-postmatch

How is losing the hitouts 60-6 and disposals 23-17 beating someone?

I never pay attention to stats, watching the game I thought that English at least halved the contest.
I'd like to see him in a Carlton jumper, put it that way.

How is losing the hitouts 60-6 and disposals 23-17 beating someone?

Yes, must have missed that!

I never pay attention to stats, watching the game I thought that English at least halved the contest.
I'd like to see him in a Carlton jumper, put it that way.

At 205cm, he's now the required height. Good mover, clean with the ball and a nice kick.... clearly not our type  ;)

Murph must be mentoring young Paddy....

So true. I'm starting to wonder whether Silvagni as head of recruiting is now a bust. Judge these selections:

SPS - majorly underwhelming nothing player
Dow - f##k me, Murphy and Gibbs level of turn over. Everything he touches turns to crap
O'Brien - what does he offer other than never hitting a target by over kicking it
Kennedy - Who? Is he ever fit?
C Curnow - Wow! Talk about believing you're own press. His nick name needs to be changed to the juggler. Never have I seen such a high draft pick other than Dow and Murphy double grab everything whenever the ball goes near him
Lang - yeah, it made me laugh when we traded for him too.
Plowman - a Backman guaranteed to have a minimum of two massive turn overs kicking across goal a game. Should be instructed to never kick the ball. Horrid!

His drafting seems to focus in on a player's ability to turn over the pill at will. Truly impressive and about time he is called out. I don't mind that he has traded out dead wood like Gibbs and others, but f##k me, with the volume of high draft picks he's had both here and the Giants, you gotta say there are a truck load of misses during his tenure at both clubs.

To be honest he's done marginally better than the previous pack of idiots and they at least snagged Cripps at 13.

SPS - majorly underwhelming nothing player thought he went ok today and is definitely one who has improved
Dow - f##k me, Murphy and Gibbs level of turn over. Everything he touches turns to crap - shocker today and needs to learn/relearn how to kick but what, his second year?
O'Brien - what does he offer other than never hitting a target by over kicking it - should never have been taken at 10 - he's a 3rd round draft pick, maybe.
Kennedy - Who? Is he ever fit?   I rate this guy - should have played last week AND today. BB couldn't be seen to admit he screwed up in selecting LOB last week....
C Curnow - Wow! Talk about believing you're own press. His nick name needs to be changed to the juggler. Never have I seen such a high draft pick other than Dow and Murphy double grab everything whenever the ball goes near him   you'd reckon his head can't fit through doorways presently.
Lang - yeah, it made me laugh when we traded for him too.  Played 2s today - his best is very good, just haven't seen it at CFC yet.
Plowman - a Backman guaranteed to have a minimum of two massive turn overs kicking across goal a game. Should be instructed to never kick the ball. Horrid! I rate Plowman...nor Robinson caruso on the blunder bus

English beat Grundy on Friday night, he's very promising

My seat at the G on Friday night must have been on a strange angle because from where I sat Grundy was close to BOG. English was smashed.

I’m pleased to read positive posts but the facts remain: as we have so many players both experienced and new to the club who lack basic kicking skills and seem to automatically make dumb decisions week in and week out, how can we improve?

Hands on heart we were told by the club that this year would see an improvement over last year.  Supporters bought into it and membership has increased.  What a load of rubbish. Just the same old same old. 

Witts smashes Walsh in a marking contest and Cripps flys the flag.   Do any of the other 22 blokes have any stones? Dies that have to do everything?

Pathetic.

Ironic?

I've probably been Daisy's bandwagon #1 ticket holder since the day he was recruited....and reason being was because he would show the rest of our rabble how to go about it, continually.

It was never about how good of a player he was/is/will be, it was about effort, brains and work rate. He has been to the top of the tree and knows whats required to get there. We cannot say the same of any other player on the list.

We need more daisy types on the list, and we'll 'magically' improve.

Yes based on all of the cr@p that used to be heaped on him.

Witts smashes Walsh in a marking contest and Cripps flys the flag.   Do any of the other 22 blokes have any stones? Dies that have to do everything?

Pathetic.

Prof, Flying the flag has never been one of our strong points for a few years now. Cripps is doing everything he can and you have to wonder how long he can keep it up?

Prof, Flying the flag has never been one of our strong points for a few years now. Cripps is doing everything he can and you have to wonder how long he can keep it up?

Find a few hard nuts - ASAP. Even if he's not a great footballer...

Holman, he has stones.   Wasn't he on our list,  oh,  that's right,  SoS cut him.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/4-points-time-for-carlton-s-players-to-look-in-the-mirror-20190414-p51e3l.html

Holman, he has stones.   Wasn't he on our list,  oh,  that's right,  SoS cut him.

I'm convinced that he asked to leave.  We might have not seen the last couple of years coming but the exodus of our blokes engineering exit strategies points to the players knowing what was coming and choosing to go rather than ride out a rebuild. 

Not that he's any good anyway.  I'm not worried that we dont have him.  You can count the number of players who left carlton and have been as good or better on one hand or less and weve turned over 60 players in the last few years.

For everyone paying out on Murphy he was good today.  Hes just not as good as we needed him to be.  Ed curnow cost us more.  But they both did a mountain of work.

We are going to be stuck in honorable loss mode for the foreseeable future.

First game at Carrara…totally unimpressed with the parking situation, with an old-timer like myself forced to walk miles when there were empty car spaces all around in permit areas. Muggins should have checked the pre-park.

I found it really interesting for a first time Gold Coast experience to note that of the ‘uniformed’ brigade (those in club colours) it was about a 50/50 split. No doubt a few made the journey up, but I suspect there was a fair bit of local support for Carlton as well… We may be sick but we’re not dead yet!

I’m afraid my contribution will be limited. Sitting in a forward pocket with my poor eyesight (I don’t know why I watch live anymore) only half the game was visible…so I saw our forwards 1st and 3rd and our defenders 2nd and 4th and on most occasions the play was anywhere but close by.

Firstly, I have to say I was as impressed by our defence as I was distressed at our forward line. Some of Jones’s efforts to get back and spoil were fantastic. There were a few mistakes with the backline, but there’s a real sense of combination back there. Weitering continues to have a good season and Newman has slotted in quite nicely. Apparently, there’s some knock on his kicking but what I saw of him today was pretty good. Daisy also very good.

The forwards…well there’s really nothing to discuss. There’s no structure, no system. Yes, some (a lot) of the delivery was poor but I saw very few of them presenting. The folks around me were livid we kept kicking to Gibbons but other options just weren’t there. The big men seemed to want to spend a lot of time further downfield. Harry had little influence and Charlie seems to be far from his form of previous seasons. I hardly noticed McGovern…I think all his goals were at the other end.

The thing is though, the Gold Coast forward setup was equally as dismal…and once again maybe that’s a credit to our defence. I guess the point is we saw a contest between two very average sides.

It’s a game we probably should have won, and I reckon we may not be too far off fluking one…but that’s only going to be meaningful if we can turn that win into a run of good performances.

Is it too soon to look for positives??

Jones and Weitering are looking more solid every week, Newman is working hard and is settling more each week, Daisy is deserving of his spot. Williamson and Docherty would compliment is all nicely, but we’ll only see one this year. Stoker is being groomed and obviously has potential. (He had a number of suitors)

Our forward line is a shambles, but has talent. McGovern, McKay and Curnow need to work out how to play together and maximize the entries. Silvagni is building up good form in the NBs, many believe Cunningham is ready to step up. Fasolo needs a decent block in the 2s to get him back in form. If our current forward coach can’t fix the mess, find someone who can.

Onball, besides Cripps, we need experience and muscle and unfortunately that comes with time. SPS is getting more involved and can find his way through traffic, Setterfield is a handful of games into his career, Fisher needs composure more often but has the attitude, Dow does 75% of things well but again lacks composure. Let’s see Lang and Kennedy once Russell has them primed and ready to go. Hopefully at least one will make a contribution moving forward. Gibbons? Refer Kane Lambert, it takes time to adjust. If Kruezer can stay on the park, that makes the midfield walk that bit taller.  De Koning will make it and be exciting.... and Walsh is a gun.

Problems
O’Brien
Simpson
Casboult
E Curnow
Lobbe

Going home with 4 pts today, wallpaper over current cracks or not, would have been a significant tonic but it was not to be.

Get Kruezer back in and get some soul back in the team 

Sorry Thryleon, disagree.   Holman would walk into our side.   Can tag because he runs both ways (something our blokes won't do),   kicked two goals today that really hurt,  has grunt and attitude.   I'd prefer him to the so called "silk" we have drafted,  none of whom show any grit: "silk" like Dow that can't find a target or a hard working ball butcher like Ed. 

Is it too soon to look for positives??

Jones and Weitering are looking more solid every week, Newman is working hard and is settling more each week, Daisy is deserving of his spot. Williamson and Docherty would compliment is all nicely, but we’ll only see one this year. Stoker is being groomed and obviously has potential. (He had a number of suitors)

Our forward line is a shambles, but has talent. McGovern, McKay and Curnow need to work out how to play together and maximize the entries. Silvagni is building up good form in the NBs, many believe Cunningham is ready to step up. Fasolo needs a decent block in the 2s to get him. If our current forward coach can’t fix the mess, find someone who can.

Onball, besides Cripps, we need experience and muscle and unfortunately that comes with time. SPS is getting more involved and can find his way through traffic, Setterfield is a handful of games into his career, Fisher needs composure more often but has the attitude, Dow does 75% of things well but again lacks composure. Let’s see Lang and Kennedy once Russell has them primed and ready to go. Hopefully at least one will make a contribution moving forward. Gibbons? Refer Kane Lambert, it takes time to adjust. If Kruezer can stay on the park, that makes the midfield walk that bit taller.  De Koning will make it and be exciting.... and Walsh is a gun.

Problems
O’Brien
Simpson
Casboult
E Curnow
Lobbe

Going home with 4 pts today, wallpaper over current cracks or not, would have been a significant tonic but it was not to be.

Get Kruezer back in and get some soul back in the team

Good post!

Gibbons is being played out of position, ditto Ed C. Stupid stuff.

Lachie O'Brien? Mistake to take him at #10 -doubt he'll make it.
Simmo - mother time is calling.
Levi - presented as a forward better than the other three (discounting the Gov's short cameo). Delivery Inside F50 was deplorable. He's goneski you'd think year's end...
Curnow - he's a stopper or nothing. Sorry Ed. (and wtf is the problem with Charlie?)
Lobbe - well past his best (noting Witts is a very big unit)

Sorry Thryleon, disagree.   Holman would walk into our side.   Can tag because he runs both ways (something our blokes won't do),   kicked two goals today that really hurt,  has grunt and attitude.   I'd prefer him to the so called "silk" we have drafted,  none of whom show any grit: "silk" like Dow that can't find a target or a hard working ball butcher like Ed.

Hes a pretty poor footballer though.

Check out his career stats.

We need better than Holman.

Dunno, does a lot right does Nick  that our blokes can't seem to do.     We need the blokes on our list who are supposedly better footballers than Holman to start showing that they are.

I reckon we've reached line in the sand time.   Time for these blokes to put up or F off.  Enough's enough.

For everyone paying out on Murphy he was good today.  Hes just not as good as we needed him to be.  Ed curnow cost us more.  But they both did a mountain of work.

This is just over the top.
Murphy was ok to good, until the last kick which was pathetic.
He just cannot deliver when it counts.
Sure he linked up in some nice passages of play but by god he would want to.
Problem is he is our most experienced player, one of the highest paid, ex captain and he can’t ice the game.
Not only that he didn’t get close with some pathetic dribble kick with 6 players in front of him

I reckon we've reached line in the sand time.   Time for these blokes to put up or F off.  Enough's enough.

Absolutely agree with this.

Some of these players really need to take this team by the scruff - and no, not talking Cripps, the man is absolutely everywhere, for goodness sake, it was him that smothered a kick in GC's F50 in the last to save a goal - whilst 3 others including Dow stood back watching!  This is the basic basic stuff, and yet we're still relying on only him to do these little things consistently!  Not GOOD ENOUGH!

Line in sand this game - who wants to build up with this team? Who wants to win games! Who wants it so much they'll hurl at the end of the game because they've given their absolutely everything? that's what we need! This team is there for the taking, come on boys, take it!

The thing is though, the Gold Coast forward setup was equally as dismal…and once again maybe that’s a credit to our defence. I guess the point is we saw a contest between two very average sides..

That sums it up Lods and it’s hard to see how Gold Coast has managed three wins  :o

I thought that we had the better tactics but the advantage we gleaned from that was negated by poor delivery and some rookie mistakes from our first and second year players (Walsh excluded).

Bolton’s next task must be to lock Cameron Bruce and David Teague in a room until they have a common understanding of how the midfield and forward line will work together.

That sums it up Lods and it’s hard to see how Gold Coast has managed three wins  :o

I thought that we had the better tactics but the advantage we gleaned from that was negated by poor delivery and some rookie mistakes from our first and second year players (Walsh excluded).

We try to drag everyone we play into ugly low scoring crap affairs and hope they kick less than us, which rarely happens.

We try to drag everyone we play into ugly low scoring crap affairs and hope they kick less than us, which rarely happens.

We haven't been the main perpetrators of this tactic this season, and if it improves our chance of winning who cares!

Dunno, does a lot right does Nick  that our blokes can't seem to do.     We need the blokes on our list who are supposedly better footballers than Holman to start showing that they are.

I reckon we've reached line in the sand time.   Time for these blokes to put up or F off.  Enough's enough.

18 disposals for two goals.  Wasnt in the ten for the day, and if not for a generous holding the ball decision (he simply let go of the footy whilst being tackled) he wouldn't have had more than a  goal.

Hes 22, and has averaged about 15 disposals across his career thus far.

It's like people pumping up Billy gowers for being a good finisher at the dogs. 

They are simply guys playing better than our guys are at the moment because they're more mature and playing in teams where they can play lesser roles better because they have more players around them firing than we do.

This is just over the top.
Murphy was ok to good, until the last kick which was pathetic.
He just cannot deliver when it counts.
Sure he linked up in some nice passages of play but by god he would want to.
Problem is he is our most experienced player, one of the highest paid, ex captain and he can’t ice the game.
Not only that he didn’t get close with some pathetic dribble kick with 6 players in front of him

Check his stats.  He was in the top handful of players on the ground statistically,  kicked it 24 times of his 29 disposals,  worked his dot off, and gained a whopping 700+ metres which puts him in the elite category, and had 5 score involvements with 13 pressure acts.

Yes he muffed his last kick.  We had lost the game by then.  Players have no idea how much time is left and let's not pretend he was close to goal.  He had no room to measure that kick from roughly 40 out with pressure around him, and he's a soft target (pardon the pun).  I was livid with his match against port.  I'll be the first to chastise Murphy when its warranted and yesterday it wasn't a fair criticism.

Check his stats.  He was in the top handful of players on the ground statistically,  kicked it 24 times of his 29 disposals,  worked his dot off, and gained a whopping 700+ metres which puts him in the elite category, and had 5 score involvements with 13 pressure acts.

Yes he muffed his last kick.  We had lost the game by then.  Players have no idea how much time is left and let's not pretend he was close to goal.  He had no room to measure that kick from roughly 40 out with pressure around him, and he's a soft target (pardon the pun).  I was livid with his match against port.  I'll be the first to chastise Murphy when its warranted and yesterday it wasn't a fair criticism.

A valiant effort, from you and Murphy, but I suspect both are wasted! ;D

Check his stats.  He was in the top handful of players on the ground statistically,  kicked it 24 times of his 29 disposals,  worked his dot off, and gained a whopping 700+ metres which puts him in the elite category, and had 5 score involvements with 13 pressure acts.

Yes he muffed his last kick.  We had lost the game by then.  Players have no idea how much time is left and let's not pretend he was close to goal.  He had no room to measure that kick from roughly 40 out with pressure around him, and he's a soft target (pardon the pun).  I was livid with his match against port.  I'll be the first to chastise Murphy when its warranted and yesterday it wasn't a fair criticism.

This is what I hate about stats watchers. They re-write history to suit their narrative. Watch the game and see Murphy's lackluster tackling efforts and general commitment to the cause and then make a comment. Don't just look at his stats and say, gee he had 29 touches, a good day out in anyone's language.

I could get 29 touches if I ran around, freely with no tag mind you, and presented like he did getting those cheap kicks in the back line like he did. Then he'd provide a 10-15 metre kick to the wing and would select the easiest option, something that wouldn't necessarily generate anything of note for the team, but would definitely pad out his stat sheet. F##k me, watch the game not the stats!

His last kick was just the icing on the cake for a forgettable soft non-committal game like he normally provides, yet is lauded for. I just don't get it, what are you people seeing. Are you that disconnected from reality that you rely on stats to prove a players worth and contribution to a game?

This is what I hate about stats watchers. They re-write history to suit their narrative. Watch the game and see Murphy's lackluster tackling efforts and general commitment to the cause and then make a comment. Don't just look at his stats and say, gee he had 29 touches, a good day out in anyone's language.

I could get 29 touches if I ran around, freely with no tag mind you, and presented like he did getting those cheap kicks in the back line like he did. Then he'd provide a 10-15 metre kick to the wing and would select the easiest option, something that wouldn't necessarily generate anything of note for the team, but would definitely pad out his stat sheet. F##k me, watch the game not the stats!

His last kick was just the icing on the cake for a forgettable soft non-committal game like he normally provides, yet is lauded for. I just don't get it, what are you people seeing. Are you that disconnected from reality that you rely on stats to prove a players worth and contribution to a game?

I thought Walsh's game far outdid Murphy's.

Got involved physically, even though he is only 18.
Tackled and chased and pressured the opposition.

Murphy was "ok", but he needs to ice the game in that situation as he doesn't provide any of the other stuff.
Tackling was pathetic, but apparently he has a pass from many on tackling, he shouldn't have to.

Oh but he had 29 possies so he's a star.

Who did he play on?
What was their impact on the game?

We haven't been the main perpetrators of this tactic this season, and if it improves our chance of winning who cares!

Well it isn't improving our chances because we never win.

I do know that good teams save many goals on the goal line through being drilled and disciplined. Are these the sort of tactics which are low down on the whiteboard? Probably, when you have a list that reads:
1. Kick to the man leading towards you who is wearing the same colour jumper as you
2. When you kick the ball (see #1), make sure it travels in the air and fairly straight
3. Try and handball to a teammate in a better position than you
4. Try and handball so said teammate doesn’t have to bend down to pick up the ball
5. If there is a player wearing a different jumper than yours and he has the ball, tackle him
6. If someone wearing the same jumper as you is already tackling someone wearing a different jumper, don’t leave your man to help out
7. Remember to put your socks on BEFORE your boots. This last one is important - I can’t stress this enough

Pretty damn sure that the architects of our rebuild didn't see us winless after almost 20% of the 4th year, following a 2 win 3rd year.

A monumental cock-up finally rearing it's ugly head ( :))so to speak, don't you love metaphors!!!)????

BB throwing Bruce and Teague under the bus during his post-game media, cliche pregnant presentation was very poor form. If there's a problem with the connect between mids and forwards... deal with it in-house. Sounded a lot like, "Their fault, not mine, mummy and daddy."

Put Bruce, Teague and Bolton together in a room and tell them to get it sorted. How the fck did it get to this in the first place? You guys have been working together for yonks. How did this midfield/forward line 'disconnect' come to be? Who's accountable/responsible? Stop bleating to the media about it and do something about ...do, don't think, do!  ;)

Maybe BB should be spending more time with his assistants than bbq's etc with the players? Maybe 'falling in love' with the players... being their pal, has blurred important boundaries between senior coach and players, undermining authority/discipline, created groups within groups (which is poison to cohesion)?

Maybe BB should be spending way more time building strong, cohesive, accountable, authentic, respectful and even inspired relationships with his coaching and development colleagues (so consistent messages are communicated to the players... very, very good antidote to 'disconnectedness')?

Whichever way you cut it, this 'rebuild' is obviously not going as planned. Is it salvageable? Of course it is but the architects had better intervene, soon.

Pretty damn sure that the architects of our rebuild didn't see us winless after almost 20% of the 4th year, following a 2 win 3rd year.

A monumental cock-up finally rearing it's ugly head ( :))so to speak, don't you love metaphors!!!)????

BB throwing Bruce and Teague under the bus during his post-game media, cliche pregnant presentation was very poor form. If there's a problem with the connect between mids and forwards... deal with it in-house. Sounded a lot like, "Their fault, not mine, mummy and daddy."

Put Bruce, Teague and Bolton together in a room and tell them to get it sorted. How the fck did it get to this in the first place? You guys have been working together for yonks. How did this midfield/forward line 'disconnect' come to be? Who's accountable/responsible? Stop bleating to the media about it and do something about ...do, don't think, do!  ;)

Maybe BB should be spending more time with his assistants than bbq's etc with the players? Maybe 'falling in love' with the players... being their pal, has blurred important boundaries between senior coach and players, undermining authority/discipline, created groups within groups (which is poison to cohesion)?

Maybe BB should be spending way more time building strong, cohesive, accountable, authentic, respectful and even inspired relationships with his coaching and development colleagues (so consistent messages are communicated to the players... very, very good antidote to 'disconnectedness')?

Whichever way you cut it, this 'rebuild' is obviously not going as planned. Is it salvageable? Of course it is but the architects had better intervene, soon.

Far to harsh Baggers.

Surely the love fest is the way forward.

It will sort its self out in time.

Just give it another decade or two

Setters and Dow to the 2s.

The first to learn how to influence a game again, the latter to learn how to kick (again?).

LOB too.

Kennedy, SoJ and Gibbons into the guts.

Garlett into a small forward role.

Players TOLD to kick to the TALL blokes - not the small blokes - in the forward 50. Kind of surprised this message hadn't been imparted earlier in their careers!  ::) ::)

Perhaps the tall blokes can wear a special flouro badge!!

Get Willo back in ASAP, even if at Simmo's expense.

And big Matty K in ASAP. The smiling assassin.

Not cute dinky kicks - I think 9 out of every 10 screwed up spectacularly yesterday! (and all the mids were (trying to) do it bar Crippa)

Our young mids:

Zac Fisher                          11   9   20   3   0   0   0   4   1   1   83
12Sam Petrevski-Seton   6   12   18   2   0   0   1   7   0   0   73
13Will Setterfield          14   2   16   8   0   0   3   2   0   1   70
14Paddy Dow                   7   13   20   3   0   0   0   3   0   1   69

Lochie O'Brien                 10   0   10   6   0   0   1   3   0   0   57
19Michael Gibbons         12   4   16   3   0   1   4   1   0   3   49


Samo 7 tackles the rest pffft. Sam Walsh had 6....are the others simply not working hard enough, are they ball watching, but they need to change their ways...compare to King Crippa, 12 tackles - not bad for a slow bloke!!!

Patrick Cripps                 15   15   30   8   0   4   0   12   2   0   163

Setters and Dow to the 2s.

The first to learn how to influence a game again, the latter to learn how to kick (again?).

LOB too.

Kennedy, SoJ and Gibbons into the guts.

Garlett into a small forward role.

Players TOLD to kick to the TALL blokes - not the small blokes - in the forward 50. Kind of surprised this message hadn't been imparted earlier in their careers!  ::) ::)

Perhaps the tall blokes can wear a special flouro badge!!

Get Willo back in ASAP, even if at Simmo's expense.

And big Matty K in ASAP. The smiling assassin.

Not cute dinky kicks - I think 9 out of every 10 screwed up spectacularly yesterday! (and all the mids were (trying to) do it bar Crippa)

Our young mids:

Zac Fisher                          11   9   20   3   0   0   0   4   1   1   83
12Sam Petrevski-Seton   6   12   18   2   0   0   1   7   0   0   73
13Will Setterfield          14   2   16   8   0   0   3   2   0   1   70
14Paddy Dow                   7   13   20   3   0   0   0   3   0   1   69

Lochie O'Brien                 10   0   10   6   0   0   1   3   0   0   57
19Michael Gibbons         12   4   16   3   0   1   4   1   0   3   49


Samo 7 tackles the rest pffft. Sam Walsh had 6....are the others simply not working hard enough, are they ball watching, but they need to change their ways...compare to King Crippa, 12 tackles - not bad for a slow bloke!!!

Patrick Cripps                 15   15   30   8   0   4   0   12   2   0   163

Charlie Curnow needs a serious wake up call.
He should be running harder than Nick Reiwolt did.
Reading far too many articles about himself.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/4-points-time-for-carlton-s-players-to-look-in-the-mirror-20190414-p51e3l.html

Doesn't look like the general frustration at the loss is in any danger of subsiding.  Neither should it.

Again, what is the tipping point before the club says "enough"?   Not that I trust the hierarchy either ... AT ALL ! 

At times, I think they just don't understand the culture and the massive support upon which they rely.  Far better men before you placed their faith in in you to maintain a standard for excellence, a hallmark of our history. 

Mollycoddling has to end now.  Get out the Weed n' Feed and find out how many of the green shoots are fair dinkum keepers.  Our players need to get angry and stop playing frightened football.  There were times in the last quarter where it looked like some of the team didn't want to get involved in case they stuffed up.

And as for delivery into the forward line, if our forwards did a bit more than stand there with one hand in the air like the Statue of Liberty (and moving about as fast), it might give the guys upfield a sense of where to kick it!!!!

That sums it up Lods and it’s hard to see how Gold Coast has managed three wins  :o

I thought that we had the better tactics but the advantage we gleaned from that was negated by poor delivery and some rookie mistakes from our first and second year players (Walsh excluded).

Bolton’s next task must be to lock Cameron Bruce and David Teague in a room until they have a common understanding of how the midfield and forward line will work together.

I can understand Teague's absolute frustration as forwards coach. How do you coach to the $hit coming from up the ground.

3AW sports editor says that CFC powerbrokers "and there are plenty of them" have given BB 4 to 8 weeks to show a dramatic improvement in the team or he is gone.

Interesting how much there is to that.

Ironic?

I've probably been Daisy's bandwagon #1 ticket holder since the day he was recruited....and reason being was because he would show the rest of our rabble how to go about it, continually.

It was never about how good of a player he was/is/will be, it was about effort, brains and work rate. He has been to the top of the tree and knows whats required to get there. We cannot say the same of any other player on the list.

We need more daisy types on the list, and we'll 'magically' improve.

Like, Like, Like!!!

This is what I hate about stats watchers. They re-write history to suit their narrative. Watch the game and see Murphy's lackluster tackling efforts and general commitment to the cause and then make a comment. Don't just look at his stats and say, gee he had 29 touches, a good day out in anyone's language.

I could get 29 touches if I ran around, freely with no tag mind you, and presented like he did getting those cheap kicks in the back line like he did. Then he'd provide a 10-15 metre kick to the wing and would select the easiest option, something that wouldn't necessarily generate anything of note for the team, but would definitely pad out his stat sheet. F##k me, watch the game not the stats!

His last kick was just the icing on the cake for a forgettable soft non-committal game like he normally provides, yet is lauded for. I just don't get it, what are you people seeing. Are you that disconnected from reality that you rely on stats to prove a players worth and contribution to a game?

Paul Roos praised Murphy's and ed curnow's workrate during the game yesterday.

Bloke has forgotten more about football than we'll ever know.

Paul Roos praised Murphy's and ed curnow's workrate during the game yesterday.

Bloke has forgotten more about football than we'll ever know.

Yet never coached one Swans player to emulate Murphy's style....

Paul Roos praised Murphy's and ed curnow's workrate during the game yesterday.

Bloke has forgotten more about football than we'll ever know.

He's probably thinking he may be working more directly with them in the future.

He's probably thinking he may be working more directly with them in the future.

indeed Lods!

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-04-15/lloyd-on-improving-composure-cohesion

3AW sports editor says that CFC powerbrokers "and there are plenty of them" have given BB 4 to 8 weeks to show a dramatic improvement in the team or he is gone.

Interesting how much there is to that.

Steve Silvagni + (the Judge x Mathieson) + Zac Dawson + Brad Lloyd - Brendan Bolton = Ross Lyon

EDIT : thanks to brother Elwood  :D

He's probably thinking he may be working more directly with them in the future.

Maybe.

The afl app supports him.  Murphy put in 13 pressure acts, 700 metres gained and 29 disposals divided 52% in the defensive half and 48% in the attacking half.

72% disposal efficiency with only 5 handball and 5 score involvements.

Statistically our 2nd or 3rd best on ground, bested only by cripps, with Sam Walsh riding along for company who provided less metres gained but more score involvements.

Weitering and Jones round out our top 5 on the field.  The problems dont come from this end.  It's the 8 or 10 we get less than 3/4 worth of involvements from that are hurting us.

I'll call out Murphy when hes having a shocker.  He had 26 disposals against port and it was a nothing game with 20+ handballs.  Yesterday was his best game for quite some time.  He just isnt a game winner anymore and captain courageous kicking to Gibbons inside 50 should hang his head in shame.  We had barely entered inside 50 in the 4th quarter and a mistake like that ducks the life out of you.  He wasnt the lone ranger but I get the feeling they spent more time trying to give Gibbons a goal yesterday and it worked to cost us the game. 

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2019-04-15/lloyd-on-improving-composure-cohesion

Very uninspiring speaker. Sounds either asleep, distracted, disinterested, I don't know what. Doesn't inspire much confidence tbh.

He just isnt a game winner anymore and captain courageous kicking to Gibbons inside 50 should hang his head in shame.  We had barely entered inside 50 in the 4th quarter and a mistake like that ducks the life out of you.  He wasnt the lone ranger but I get the feeling they spent more time trying to give Gibbons a goal yesterday and it worked to cost us the game.

Yeah Cripps was terrible for that one mistake.

Walsh laid 6 tackles.
Murphy 12 years his senior was 2.

Now way was Murphy better than Cripps, Weitering, Jones or Walsh.

He should have kicked that goal.

Yeah Cripps was terrible for that one mistake.

Walsh laid 6 tackles.
Murphy 12 years his senior was 2.

Now way was Murphy better than Cripps, Weitering, Jones or Walsh.

He should have kicked that goal.

You will never take a holistic view of what Murphy does, so discussing this with you is a waste of time. You and your associates cherry pick every negative, sometimes only a perceived negative, and amplify them to justify to a supposedly objective position, what is in fact seriously biased and full of barely disguised hatred and vitriol.

Very uninspiring speaker. Sounds either asleep, distracted, disinterested, I don't know what. Doesn't inspire much confidence tbh.

Very, very uninspiring - couldn't even answer the simple question re the forward set up (and 1 forward staying in the goal square at all times) with any clarity.

As if he had no real idea of the game plan!

Yeah Cripps was terrible for that one mistake.

Walsh laid 6 tackles.
Murphy 12 years his senior was 2.

Now way was Murphy better than Cripps, Weitering, Jones or Walsh.

He should have kicked that goal.

He should have at least scored!

You will never take a holistic view of what Murphy does, so discussing this with you is a waste of time. You and your associates cherry pick every negative, sometimes only a perceived negative, and amplify them to justify to a supposedly objective position, what is in fact seriously biased and full of barely disguised hatred and vitriol.

The problem is I don't think you take a holistic view of what he doesn't do.

Why do others have to do the heavy lifting and Murphy is exonerated from it?

Why is it ok for an 18 year old to get his hands dirty, run both ways and apply defensive pressure, when the ex captain doesn't.

If you are going to judge Murphy, I am very happy to judge him on his overall game.
That is exactly where his game falls apart.

Hard running and 28 disposals is the least he should provide as there is SFA else

The problem is I don't think you take a holistic view of what he doesn't do.

Why do others have to do the heavy lifting and Murphy is exonerated from it?

Why is it ok for an 18 year old to get his hands dirty, run both ways and apply defensive pressure, when the ex captain doesn't.

If you are going to judge Murphy, I am very happy to judge him on his overall game.
That is exactly where his game falls apart.

Hard running and 28 disposals is the least he should provide as there is SFA else

You have an extremely narrow focus on crash n bash and tackling, as if that's all there is to football. Last time I checked, there's more to it than that.

Hard running and 28 disposals is the least he should provide as there is SFA else

You must think then that Craig Bradley was the ultimate spud, because he was even less physical than Murphy!

Personally, I think toughness has nothing to do with knuckles, and far more to do with dragging your ar5e out there over and over again despite living through years of being mindlessly stepped on!

I'm not sure I can say their are tougher types than the likes of Bradley, Murphy, Harvey, Riewoldt, McLeod, Kelly, etc., etc.. Guys who had opponents at first gasping for breath, then went again until they threw up!

You have an extremely narrow focus on crash n bash and tackling, as if that's all there is to football. Last time I checked, there's more to it than that.

Not at all, that is simply what you think I mean.

I am saying there is a lot more to it than getting 28 kicks.

That is where Murphy starts and stops.

What else does he provide outside that?

Certainly no defensive pressure, no running defensively, no tackling.

Keep in mind, the modern game is more about defensive pressure and tackling than ever before.

Not at all, that is simply what you think I mean.

I am saying there is a lot more to it than getting 28 kicks.

That is where Murphy starts and stops.

What else does he provide outside that?

Certainly no defensive pressure, no running defensively, no tackling.

Keep in mind, the modern game is more about defensive pressure and tackling than ever before.

Murphy finished 2nd in the AFL fantasy points, behind Cripps and ahead of Walsh.

Steve Silvagni + (the Judge x Mathieson) + Zac Dawson - Brendan Bolton = Ross Lyon

Tend to agree......if there is a change I would expect Lyon to be approached, while I remain unconvinced on Bolton I remain convinced that Lyon
isnt the messiah either..

Paul...You can add Brad Lloyd to that equation too....

Tend to agree......if there is a change I would expect Lyon to be approached, while I remain unconvinced on Bolton I remain convinced that Lyon
isnt the messiah either..

Paul...You can add Brad Lloyd to that equation too....

Fixed EB. I agree. Following the R1 game, I thought Lyon had finally figured out why the field had goal posts. Turned out to be a mirage.

I do know that good teams save many goals on the goal line through being drilled and disciplined. Are these the sort of tactics which are low down on the whiteboard? Probably, when you have a list that reads:
1. Kick to the man leading towards you who is wearing the same colour jumper as you
2. When you kick the ball (see #1), make sure it travels in the air and fairly straight
3. Try and handball to a teammate in a better position than you
4. Try and handball so said teammate doesn’t have to bend down to pick up the ball
5. If there is a player wearing a different jumper than yours and he has the ball, tackle him
6. If someone wearing the same jumper as you is already tackling someone wearing a different jumper, don’t leave your man to help out
7. Remember to put your socks on BEFORE your boots. This last one is important - I can’t stress this enough

We do the exact opposite to every one of those week in week out, 3 in particular. Hence,0-4.

Tend to agree......if there is a change I would expect Lyon to be approached, while I remain unconvinced on Bolton I remain convinced that Lyon
isnt the messiah either..

Paul...You can add Brad Lloyd to that equation too....

Longmire. He's probably done as much as he can at Sydney. I'm not in favour of removing Bolton, but Horse would be the one I'd be interested in, were it to happen.

Fixed EB. I agree. Following the R1 game, I thought Lyon had finally figured out why the field had goal posts. Turned out to be a mirage.

Yep, we cant kick 100 points and I dont see how employing the most negative game plan coach in the comp is going to fix that.....

If you think some are over critical of Bolton....wait until you see what this place would do to Ross Lyon. ;D
He wouldn't even get a "honeymoon weekend" before the boots went in.

No chance he would be an acceptable alternative to the masses.
Unless of course he won a flag in his first year. ;)

If you think some are over critical of Bolton....wait until you see what this place would do to Ross Lyon.
He wouldn't even get a "honeymoon weekend" before the boots went in.

No chance he would be an acceptable alternative to the masses.
Unless of course he won a flag in his first year.

Any coach who gets us out of the bottom 4 will be a genius in the eyes of many supporters.
There is an old saying " a drowning man will cling onto a serpent"...think that applies to Lyon.

On Setterfield, when you consider how much footy he's missed, and how difficult it must be to look half decent in our team, I think he's tracking ok. Watching on the telly I've seen him do some good things.

Certainly a pass IMO.

Yep, we cant kick 100 points and I dont see how employing the most negative game plan coach in the comp is going to fix that.....

who cares about 100 points EB, i'll be happy with 50 if the other guys only score 46.

A better kick or two and we would be enjoying a win.

For what it is worth, the calls to make radical changes and things are failing need to heed the huge changes we have made as a club. The only things an executive (read head coach) can do to effect change is change budgets or people. We have a salary cap so the first is out. And on the second we have made massive changes. Any workplace that has had the percentage of staff turnover we gave had is going to find the going tough for a while.

The club is now settling its playing list. Our footy this year has been better. We arn't scoring much, but nor are most teams. We have been in games and have not been blown away.  I want to see a win, but I'm certain the coach and players want it the most.

A better kick or two and we would be enjoying a win.

For what it is worth, the calls to make radical changes and things are failing need to heed the huge changes we have made as a club. The only things an executive (read head coach) can do to effect change is change budgets or people. We have a salary cap so the first is out. And on the second we have made massive changes. Any workplace that has had the percentage of staff turnover we gave had is going to find the going tough for a while.

The club is now settling its playing list. Our footy this year has been better. We arn't scoring much, but nor are most teams. We have been in games and have not been blown away.  I want to see a win, but I'm certain the coach and players want it the most.

Yes, I agree, but that's too sensible for most. It's usually something like :

- knee jerk
- pitch forks
- media pressure
- sack coach

On Setterfield, when you consider how much footy he's missed, and how difficult it must be to look half decent in our team, I think he's tracking ok. Watching on the telly I've seen him do some good things.

Certainly a pass IMO.

Agreed. We have to keep playing him.

Had another look at the final minutes. WTF was Gov thinking when he dropped back to help? Why wasnt he on the goal line? If he was, he marks the snap for goal and we win. Its a game of inches.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/blues-players-must-own-losses-cripps-docherty-20190415-p51eg0.html

Provides some context and well worth a read.

God bless David Parkin.

Had another look at the final minutes. WTF was Gov thinking when he dropped back to help? Why wasnt he on the goal line? If he was, he marks the snap for goal and we win. Its a game of inches.

Never seen him play a good game when he is sent back.....just doesnt have the natural defensive instincts.
Wouldnt mind his brother though, he is about the best in the business and maybe Mitch gets credits he doesnt deserve as a defender through his bro's reputation.

Never seen him play a good game when he is sent back.....just doesnt have the natural defensive instincts.
Wouldnt mind his brother though, he is about the best in the business and maybe Mitch gets credits he doesnt deserve as a defender through his bro's reputation.

Again though, they should train for this stuff - ffs..., we used to at junior level 100 years ago!

Never seen him play a good game when he is sent back.....just doesnt have the natural defensive instincts.
Wouldnt mind his brother though, he is about the best in the business and maybe Mitch gets credits he doesnt deserve as a defender through his bro's reputation.

EB1, McGovern spent half of one season playing CHF at the Crows and did OK! They had used him D50, Mid and F50 over his time there!

Again though, they should train for this stuff - ffs..., we used to at junior level 100 years ago!

Thankyou, my point exactly in one of my earlier posts.

Never seen him play a good game when he is sent back.....just doesnt have the natural defensive instincts.
Wouldnt mind his brother though, he is about the best in the business and maybe Mitch gets credits he doesnt deserve as a defender through his bro's reputation.

Thankyou, my point exactly in one of my earlier posts.

I think the concept of the utility player, one who can better an opponent in any position, is a dead-set furphy. It says more about the inability of the coaching staff and MC than the capabilities of a player.

The only winners in AFL are the blokes who play their best role, in their best position and do it better than their opponents can cope with! If you don't have enough of the winners across the ground you lose!

Never seen him play a good game when he is sent back.....just doesnt have the natural defensive instincts.
Wouldnt mind his brother though, he is about the best in the business and maybe Mitch gets credits he doesnt deserve as a defender through his bro's reputation.

He did a great job on Charlie when we played the Crows but I think that he is a reluctant defender.  He is more likely to take a clutch mark than rush a behind on the goal line.

Can I ask if we had won by 1 point would that have changed much?...just given us another false dawn?
Look at the game today, would you want to coach either of those teams?

4 x wins by 1 point would apparently have this site pissing themselves with great pride, after all losing is unacceptable !
????

I was at the match on Sunday. It has taken 48 hours to calm down. It was a disgraceful performance. 10 minutes into the third quarters and we were looking at a five goal win, yet we managed to blow it and lose it in the last few seconds. Our backline is solid, but they still miss targets coming out of defence which often leads to turnovers and goals. If they would just hit their targets more regularly then there would be less pressure on them. The midfield is good and is going to get better but once again wrong options, poor decision and bad skills makes it harder for everyone. Our forward line is a disaster. No one wants to kick goals. They all want to set it up. Setterfield did the right thing setting up Cripps in the last quarter. In the pocket on his wrong foot, center the ball and kick it to the advantage of your team mate. Dow and Petrovski-Seton getting the break in the middle and running to the 50 meter line, go for goal. No, try and hit a hard running forward coming straight at you with a defender hot on his tail. Kick the goal. Cripps, 50 meters out, time for a captain's goal, no pop it up 15 meters out on the head of a tall defender when all our tall forwards are twenty meters away. Kick the goal. Last play of the day, Murphy's got the ball running in, he first thought is to see if someone is clear, takes a fraction of a second too long, he gets squeezed up and the ball goes nowhere. Kick the goal.
Settrefield and Fisher are the only midfielders who when they get the ball inside the fifty thin goal. We had two small forwards who aren't natural forwards. Gibbons got the ball 15 meters out, gives it to Ed Curnow who is 15 meters out, and he misses the goal. A hungry half forward would not have handed the ball off and he would not have missed it. Kick the goal.
The fact that there is not cohesion or structure between the forwards and the midfielders and amongst the forwards is Teague's fault. He is the forwards coach. He was brought over from Adelaide to implement a high scoring forward structure. There maybe a lot reasons for it not happening, but at the moment, he is failing.
Only one grand final in 124 years has the winning team been the side who has kicked the least amount of goals on the day, 1968 Carlton V Essendon. The game is not that complicated. If you kick more goals than your opposition you are likely to win. At the moment, our forwards and the forward structure seems to be all about process and not outcomes. Get the ball kick the goal.

Gibbons is a crap kick for goal.

Blue Moon. My hope is that those things come with more games under their belt, and more games together.

So last week people start calling for Boltons head because, despite more scoring shots than the opposition, we lose.
This week people continue to call for his head because we were leading the game for 80+ minutes and lost it in the last 30 seconds.

These are the same people that want to see effort and improvement.
The same people that point to our % as a measure of performance.

So many simple decisions and non-decisions that could have worked for us, but ultimately worked against us, cost us the game.....and Bolton cops all the flack.

I've just read 9 pages of this and not a single person has questioned murphys dribble kick into the goal square (with players in the square) with only seconds left on the clock, and ball 30m out from goal.

Why would you not kick it UP at goal FFS! That is a 250+ game player who did that off his own bat, and no amount of coaching from Bolton or anyone else would've changed that instinct from Murph in that moment.

I know emotions are high at the moment, but f*** me i can't stand reading these pages at present. This kind of blind hatred is going to get Bolton sacked, and set the club back years again. Then 5-10 years from now we'll start pining for Bolts to come back in the same way we are doing for Ratts now.

Cmon people. WE are the problem as much as anything that happens on match day. We put the pressure on the club powerbrokers along with the media that ultimately lead us to make emotive decisions, that end up setting the club back.

Cheers Krudds ????????

Cheers Krudds

We are also the club!

In fairness to Bolton, his game plan has put us in winning positions that the players have forked up, no doubt about that.

But inversely, I haven't yet seen the game plan that I can say makes the best use of the players, I'm very worried about this idea of being uncomfortable is good for the young players long term. I'm not sure how long that idea stays fresh when you are losing week in and week out! I'm sure our coaches have heard of Pavlov's Dog, are we conditioning them to fold under pressure?

I'm certainly still worried about our player development!

If the powers behind the scenes get even a slight whiff that BBs plans are doing irreparable damage to the talent he is a goner! The list churning cannot continue, they've done more than enough of that already that we should be seeing some daylight!

Perhaps our greatest achievement of recent times is making a play for McGovern and getting him, otherwise I would have said our club looks like trade destination poison!

Oh thats right, i forgot the #1 reason for hating Bolton is the way he speaks.  ::) Too many cliches.

Must be why you picked up on 'blind hatred' and ignored the actual crux of the post.

Lets look at facts.

1. We've been in every game this year.
2. We've been steadily getting closer to a win each week. Last week it was goal accuracy that could've changed the result. This week a multitude of 50-50s that cost us. We were in front for over 80% of the game.
3. There has been some steady improvement from our oldest group of younger players
- Weitering
- SPS
etc
4. The older players are starting to decline, but the kids coming through are improving by more.
5. For the 2nd year running we've lost one of our most important players for the year in Doc.
6. We have not had one of our most important players, Kreuzer, at our disposal at all so far, and have been forced to play our 2nd, 3rd and 4th rucks thus far. Our 5th ruck is injured otherwise he probably would've got a game too.
7. Overall, there is clear improvement in almost all areas except one glaring one - the win column.

Yes, we are playing a lot of players that have not played with eachother previous to this year.
Yes, we are playing a lot of kids who will make mistakes, and need to make mistakes.
Yes, it is frustrating as hell, but don't let your emotions override the logical side of your brain.

The sky is not falling.

Some people ask why I love you Krudds... ????
We still need to sack everyone though ????

Walsh laid 6 tackles.
Murphy 12 years his senior was 2.

Is the correct answer 13.6 or 73 ?
????

I think the concept of the utility player, one who can better an opponent in any position, is a dead-set furphy. It says more about the inability of the coaching staff and MC than the capabilities of a player.

The only winners in AFL are the blokes who play their best role, in their best position and do it better than their opponents can cope with! If you don't have enough of the winners across the ground you lose!

Not a furphy, just not as common as people make out.

When reading that, the first person i thought of was SOS.

Down back, obviously flog his opponent, FB or CHB, didn't matter.
Won us plenty of games by moving forward too.
Even flogged Ablett in the GF when moved to the wing to get a kick.

Nobody had an easy day on SOS.

Secondly, i thought of Waite.
Forward or back, he was a beast.
Even flogged Matty Richardson when he was in career best form playing from a wing.

A few other names popped up, but you get the gist. Its certainly possible.

A few other names popped up, but you get the gist. Its certainly possible.

Historically it was a bit different, those blokes spent 80% of their time or more in one position.

In the modern sense, players are all over the shop, too many of them in my opinion. It's a form of standardisation that is seemingly bastardising the skill levels of the game.

Saw a snippet of Paul Roos on whatever show he's on (with Healy, Lyon and J Brown). Said he watched the Blues Suns game, and he thought Murphy was "super." Said he "ran himself into the ground."

I think he may be paying attention to a lot of our players ;D

A bit like a vulture does. ;)

Saw a snippet of Paul Roos on whatever show he's on (with Healy, Lyon and J Brown). Said he watched the Blues Suns game, and he thought Murphy was "super." Said he "ran himself into the ground."

This is the stuff you can't see when you watch a game on tv. It's often the running guys do without the ball that is most important

Saw a snippet of Paul Roos on whatever show he's on (with Healy, Lyon and J Brown). Said he watched the Blues Suns game, and he thought Murphy was "super." Said he "ran himself into the ground."

I thought he was okay but not as good as the week before and certainly not better than Jones or Weitering.

I thought he was okay but not as good as the week before and certainly not better than Jones or Weitering.

In the Jim Park thread you said giving him votes was akin to trolling ?

Does he have to better than Jones or Weeters to be considered good ?

Saw a snippet of Paul Roos on whatever show he's on (with Healy, Lyon and J Brown). Said he watched the Blues Suns game, and he thought Murphy was "super." Said he "ran himself into the ground."

Saw the same thing. Always like Roosies take on things. He also mentioned he'd rather see Charlie running more up the ground, too clogged with 3 talls.

Saw the same thing. Always like Roosies take on things. He also mentioned he'd rather see Charlie running more up the ground, too clogged with 3 talls.

I'm not such a fan of Roos myself. Gets on my wick for some reason. But I'm glad he said it.

Historically it was a bit different, those blokes spent 80% of their time or more in one position.

In the modern sense, players are all over the shop, too many of them in my opinion. It's a form of standardisation that is seemingly bastardising the skill levels of the game.

So you say its a furphy, i prove otherwise and then you say its only untrue in the modern game....but go onto say that players play all over the place already in the modern game.

So lets throw up some modern names.
Dangerfield, Cripps, DeGoey, Martin.....will beat their opponents, forward and midfield....and there are plenty of others.

Blicavz can be a ruck, back or midfielder.

...there will be others.

I'm not such a fan of Roos myself. Gets on my wick for some reason. But I'm glad he said it.

Wouldn't say I was a fan of Roosy, more about respect. I like listening to perspectives from those who've coached sides to the top of the tree.

Wouldn't say I was a fan of Roosy, more about respect. I like listening to perspectives from those who've coached sides to the top of the tree.

Yes, my feelings as well.

Yes, my feelings as well.

I've had the good fortune to hear addresses by Matthews & Jeans - the clarity, brevity, intensity and succinct intelligence of their communication is really inspiring. You could really understand how and why their sides took the field, all on the same page, all knowing what they had to do. They were also somewhat intimidating, not a bad trait for respect and adherence to the side's disciplines.

In the Jim Park thread you said giving him votes was akin to trolling ?

Does he have to better than Jones or Weeters to be considered good ?

I said it after someone rated him our second best player which is ridiculous.

I said it after someone rated him our second best player which is ridiculous.

Fair enough. I guess Roos saw his performance as pretty good, considering he described it as "super."

I said it after someone rated him our second best player which is ridiculous.

That would be me but then I consider most of your contributions ridiculous.

Actually, that’s a bit harsh; I consider some of your contributions to be spot on (and you did nail the election of the current POTUS), others to be wide of the mark, and the rest are either attempts at humour or brain fades.

The truth of the matter is that everyone sees the game differently. You gave Murphy votes in the previous game and, apart from Crash, no-one else thought he deserved votes.  I thought he ran his guts out trying to get us across the line against Gold Coast and was deserving of 4 votes in my scheme of things and I really don’t give a fat rat’s clacker if you or anyone else disagrees.

That would be me but then I consider most of your contributions ridiculous.

Actually, that’s a bit harsh; I consider some of your contributions to be spot on (and you did nail the election of the current POTUS), others to be wide of the mark, and the rest are either attempts at humour or brain fades.

The truth of the matter is that everyone sees the game differently. You gave Murphy votes in the previous game and, apart from Crash, no-one else thought he deserved votes.  I thought he ran his guts out trying to get us across the line against Gold Coast and was deserving of 4 votes in my scheme of things and I really don’t give a fat rat’s clacker if you or anyone else disagrees.

Well you practically accused me of being racist a few years ago so I don't really care what you think.

Well you practically accused me of being racist a few years ago so I don't really care what you think.

Fair enough.  I guess that means you will no longer comment on my posts  :)