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Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #150 –
Utkin reported to be on the plane also.

There are currently a lot of reports in Russia that he faked his death and now Wagner will plan to march on moscow etc.
All of this is incredibly unlikely. He could have for sure staged his death or "avoided a bullet", but i am still banking on the fact i believe he is dead.
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #151 –
Orchestrating a plane crash would be an extremely complex and convoluted way to fake one’s death, even for Prighozhin.

And then there’s DNA analysis of human remains, regardless of how fragmentary.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #152 –
Yep I can't see it either
If he did stage the whole thing it would be hard for him to reappear.
The Russian people have been sold the fact he's dead.
Putin is enhanced... "You dont mess with the Pute"
They'd hardly flock to Prigo if he was to suddenly 'come back from the dead'

If he's done it to avoid assassination...good luck with that one.
He's forfeited all he had...including his little army.

Nope. I think he's a goner

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #153 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Interesting.  Everyone goes straight to Putin as cause of death, but no one thought to consider that this guy might simply have faked his death to defect.

Who knows, but not many planes crash, so either its a fake crash, or it was shot down.

People are so ready to believe this when Russia is involved.

I talk about the same thing with America and i'm coco bananas.

Just let that sink in and maybe reevaluate.
 

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #154 –
Another Telegram post by a Wagner member warned another coup could be on the horizon.

“There are rumours about the death of the head of Wagner PMC Yevgeny Prigozhin,” the post read.

“We directly say that we suspect the Kremlin officials led by Putin of an attempt to kill him.

“If the information about Prigozhin’s death is confirmed, we will organise a second March of Justice on Moscow! He’d better be alive, it’s in your own interests.”
Goals for 2017
=============
Play the most anti-social football in the AFL

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #155 –
Quote from: kruddler on
People are so ready to believe this when Russia is involved.

I talk about the same thing with America and i'm coco bananas.

Just let that sink in and maybe reevaluate.

It hasn't escaped me that all this could be western propaganda and we don't have a handle about what this war is all about.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #156 –
Apparently it's a bit like Spartacus.

As EB mentioned earlier there are reports that lots of folk have changed their name to Prigozhin to protect him from assasination or at least cause confusion.
So the fact that his name shows up on a plane's manifest is not necessarily firm proof.

Western propoganda?
I'm not sure how it benefits the West or Ukraine to falsely claim he's been taken out.
The big winner if he's gone is Putin.
I haven't seen anything official from Kremlin sources...
There is some speculation from some Russian sources, but even Wagner can't seem to make up their minds or know for sure.

It seemed bizarre when he called off his coup.
To resurface after this would be even more bizarre.

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #157 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
It hasn't escaped me that all this could be western propaganda and we don't have a handle about what this war is all about.

Since when does the Russian media promote western propaganda?

And the Russian film footage of the jet plummeting to earth was pretty convincing.

More to the point, what would the west gain from making this up?

The Ukraine War is one of the most analysed conflicts ever and all perspectives are readily available.

“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #158 –
Im a bit confused by the Wagner No 1 and No 2 being on the same plane, I would have thought they would be smarter than that?

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #159 –
Quote from: DJC on
Since when does the Russian media promote western propaganda?

And the Russian film footage of the jet plummeting to earth was pretty convincing.

More to the point, what would the west gain from making this up?

The Ukraine War is one of the most analysed conflicts ever and all perspectives are readily available.



I think you misunderstood me.

We know these two are at war.

We know that Russia is the baddie, Ukraine the goody.

At least this is what we are told.

It's over simplified.  This latest episode is simply more of the same.  What is there to believe here?  Putin is bad and staged a mission against Ukraine.  Ok, that happened but why is what I dont buy.

Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, strange explosions in Lebanon, the Crimean battles.  New resources found in the Mediterranean causing more political chest thumping.  Trump Biden rumour about usa politics being influenced by the Russians.

Conspiracy or just a strange string of loose connections with putin the culprit?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #160 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
I think you misunderstood me.

We know these two are at war.

We know that Russia is the baddie, Ukraine the goody.

At least this is what we are told.

It's over simplified.  This latest episode is simply more of the same.  What is there to believe here?  Putin is bad and staged a mission against Ukraine.  Ok, that happened but why is what I dont buy.

Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, strange explosions in Lebanon, the Crimean battles.  New resources found in the Mediterranean causing more political chest thumping.  Trump Biden rumour about usa politics being influenced by the Russians.

Conspiracy or just a strange string of loose connections with putin the culprit?

That's the thing Thry ... it's not what you're told, it's what can be gleaned from history and from a range of aligned and non-aligned sources.  Take most of the media commentary with a grain of salt but don't dismiss the first hand accounts.
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #161 –
Quote from: DJC on
That's the thing Thry ... it's not what you're told, it's what can be gleaned from history and from a range of aligned and non-aligned sources.  Take most of the media commentary with a grain of salt but don't dismiss the first hand accounts.

I dont want to start an old debate.
But read what you wrote.
Then think about about the first 24 hours of 9/11.

Every first hand account aligned, media even reported it that way. Within 24 hours every media outlet flipped it on its head and sang from the opposite hymn book.

Russia, people believe the conspiracy first.
USA, if you believe conspiracy, you're a crack pot.
Same same but different.

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #162 –
Quote from: DJC on
That's the thing Thry ... it's not what you're told, it's what can be gleaned from history and from a range of aligned and non-aligned sources.  Take most of the media commentary with a grain of salt but don't dismiss the first hand accounts.

History has shown that the first casualty of war is the innocent.

The second the truth.

The third, the victor is never the bad guy.

The fourth, our side was never the bad guy regardless of which side you are on.

Interesting perspectives.  Apply it to Russia.  Tell me, what is this conflict all about?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #163 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
History has shown that the first casualty of war is the innocent.

The second the truth.

The third, the victor is never the bad guy.

The fourth, our side was never the bad guy regardless of which side you are on.

Interesting perspectives.  Apply it to Russia.  Tell me, what is this conflict all about?
To me the conflict is about a narcissistic, ruthless, murdering,  nut job who invaded a country for no other reasons than  because he can and that no-one on the planet will a do a damn thing about it.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Russian Ukraine War

Reply #164 –
Vlad has sent his condolences to Prigozhins family.
So that probably rules out Western propoganda

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-sends-condolences-to-wagner-chief-prigozhin-s-family-after-crash/ar-AA1fJnGb

If this is a con and a trick, its a Russian con.

"I've always liked Yevgeny. His family needs to understand it was only business" said Don Vlado Putani.