It's sad reading and listening to the rhetoric today about the recent battle of the prehistoric mammals. It seemed to me to be a sub-standard fight that was akin to two past-it bulls reliving the old days.
But even more disturbing for me is the result, the reason for the result, and the subsequent complaining.
A deliberate cheap shot taken early in the match, well outside the spirit of good sportsmanship, designed to level the playing field. Should not be rewarded with victory. It seems one of the three judges thought so, and despite Mundine finishing the match in better physical condition he should not have been rewarded for what I see as deliberate cheating.
Even sadder, old beaten around the ring boxers coming out and joining the chorus. They discount the bad behaviour and only care about the outcome.
Perhaps Mundine got the physical victory, but it does matter how you get a win! If that isn't the case the next person to fight him should feel free to take a shovel the ring and end him at the first bell!
Mundine won the fight.
Mundine won the fight.
Should he have been disqualified in the first round?
Should he have been disqualified in the first round?
Under the rules the answer is no but I believe that the rules should be stronger.
Under the rules the answer is no but I believe that the rules should be stronger.
Was it a coward punch in the first 30s that allowed Mundine to stay in the match for eight rounds?
Mundine won the fight.
Not in my opinion.
I couldn't be happier.......whats better then seeing Mundine lose... watching his face when he was certain like many others that he won the fight. :D :D.......oh well ;D
And for those who say Green was lucky, look again at Mundine's illegal punch which clearly concussed Green in the opening round and ask yourself honestly was that handled correctly by the ref ??
As a min Green should have received a 5 min medical time out, but no Green is then forced to his corner and still concussed forced to battle the next 9 rounds at half the awareness he would have had because of an illegal hook to the jaw. The fact all they did was deduct 1 single point just shows how rigged and farcical the boxing caper has become. I was certain when i watched his legs failing under him Mundine had the fight. But Mundine still couldn't drop Green and he was was still up after 10 rounds. His victory speech when he asked the crowd to cheer for Mundine shows the difference between these 2 characters.
And what did Mundine do - he took off out of the ring, without showing an ounce of respect for his opponent.
Should form a friendship with Kyrgios in his retirement - they would get along very well.
It's sad reading and listening to the rhetoric today about the recent battle of the prehistoric mammals. It seemed to me to be a sub-standard fight that was akin to two past-it bulls reliving the old days.
But even more disturbing for me is the result, the reason for the result, and the subsequent complaining.
A deliberate cheap shot taken early in the match, well outside the spirit of good sportsmanship, designed to level the playing field. Should not be rewarded with victory. It seems one of the three judges thought so, and despite Mundine finishing the match in better physical condition he should not have been rewarded for what I see as deliberate cheating.
Even sadder, old beaten around the ring boxers coming out and joining the chorus. They discount the bad behaviour and only care about the outcome.
Perhaps Mundine got the physical victory, but it does matter how you get a win! If that isn't the case the next person to fight him should feel free to take a shovel the ring and end him at the first bell!
Wasn't deliberate cheating. The referee, while breaking the fighters, didn't actually come between them to break them, hence Mundine may not have picked that up coming out of half a headlock. It was basically a late punch and he duly got deducted a point but it wasn't a a deliberate cheap shot. Green certainly didn't see it as a deliberate cheap shot.
Felt Mundine won reasonably comfortably but after a great rivalry 1-1 isn't a bad result.
I'll post what I think, then leave this debate.
I'm a big fan of boxing, a long term fan, and I've seen a lot of very ordinary things happen in the ring. But that coward punch was as bad as any, and the way the rest of the match proceeded was as bad as any.
Pretty much all of Green's good work on deriding the coward punch was unravelled by the likes of Fenech and Michael coming out and rallying behind Mundine's victory claim, it's a disgrace.
In my opinion Mundine should be banned from boxing, if he is allowed to box again, and if the boxing authorities don't take a serious stance. Then boxing should be banned in Australia, and it hurts me to write that, but I'd take the same stance in MMA, UFC, or any other contact sport so I must not be a hypocrit!
PS: I don't accept any excuses for Mundine, he was looking straight at the referee prior to the separation and punch, he isn't some green horn or newbie. Mundine new exactly what he was doing, it was deliberate, cowardly and cheap plain and simple.
I'll post what I think, then leave this debate.
I'm a big fan of boxing, a long term fan, and I've seen a lot of very ordinary things happen in the ring. But that coward punch was as bad as any, and the way the rest of the match proceeded was as bad as any.
Pretty much all of Green's good work on deriding the coward punch was unravelled by the likes of Fenech and Michael coming out and rallying behind Mundine's victory claim, it's a disgrace.
In my opinion Mundine should be banned from boxing, if he is allowed to box again, and if the boxing authorities don't take a serious stance. Then boxing should be banned in Australia, and it hurts me to write that, but I'd take the same stance in MMA, UFC, or any other contact sport so I must not be a hypocrit!
PS: I don't accept any excuses for Mundine, he was looking straight at the referee prior to the separation and punch, he isn't some green horn or newbie. Mundine new exactly what he was doing, it was deliberate, cowardly and cheap plain and simple.
I don't care what you accept, wouldn't take it seriously anyway. Sometimes you can really dribble crap.
Have another look then. It was a late shot but certainly not deliberately late as they were tied up in a clinch. Any idiot knows that.
Was it a coward punch in the first 30s that allowed Mundine to stay in the match for eight rounds?
They fought a decade ago in their primes and Mundine thrashed him. I don't like him but he is a better boxer than Danny Green.
I dont like Mundine but I too thought he won the fight on clean point scoring punches, I watched a replay and I thought it was a messy fight with little damage to either fighter and wondered about the validity of the fight. Green came harder early like he did in the first fight but didnt land much even though the punches thrown looked impressive but they didnt hit much. Mundine seemed happy to counter punch, weave away and then hold on when it was in close, I felt he should have been penalised for holding on more than he was early. He was the fitter man in the end and Green was sucking in the big breaths as Mundine picked him off with some good counter punches...
It was almost like the two fighters agreed not to hurt each other and just pocket the 10 mill...
Biggest disgrace was the Quade Cooper vs the Milkybar kid fight..not sure how that was ever sanctioned...the Cooper camp must have said find me something I can beat up on that cant fight back and will have blown out after one round....Cooper was a foot taller and at least looks like a fighter , Jack McInnes had more rolls of fat on him than Doris the Pig at the Royal Melbourne Show. 22 year old??...I'd be checking that kids birth certificate, looked about 16....
Lucky he didnt get badly hurt...a real Pro would have bashed that kid senseless...
They fought a decade ago in their primes and Mundine thrashed him. I don't like him but he is a better boxer than Danny Green.
Agree..Mundine is the smarter technical boxer and Green the street fighter looking for the big payday punch....the former just keeps away from the big glory punches early and then uses his fitness and skill to rack up the points later in the fight...
Like I said in the other post I reckon this fight might have had a bit of scripting and WWE theatre about it ...
Green won the fight!!!
I don't care what you accept, wouldn't take it seriously anyway. Sometimes you can really dribble crap.
Have another look then. It was a late shot but certainly not deliberately late as they were tied up in a clinch. Any idiot knows that.
Are you barking serious ?
MAYBE YOU should have another look. GREEN WASNT EVEN FACING Mundine. The ref separated them and Mundine hit him from BEHIND.
Green never even saw it coming. There is cheap shots and there are cheap shots. Mundine should count himself lucky he wasnt disqualified for it.
Mundine may well have won the rest of the fight but I'd like to see any boxer past or present get that punch in the same circumstances and go on to fight !
................Any idiot knows that.
Are you barking serious?
I think Laj is showing us the forum post equivalent of a coward punch! :o
I haven't watched the whole fight but I have seen the first round several times. The referee clearly made a blunder in not telling the fighters to break before grabbing Green. Green understandably dropped his guard but remained fair game for Mundine and it was a legal blow.
The rules don't really cover a referee's error but, at a stretch, Mundine's blow could have been considered an unintentional foul and the fight declared a no contest; a popular outcome for all concerned ;)
I haven't watched the whole fight but I have seen the first round several times. The referee clearly made a blunder in not telling the fighters to break before grabbing Green. Green understandably dropped his guard but remained fair game for Mundine and it was a legal blow.
The rules don't really cover a referee's error but, at a stretch, Mundine's blow could have been considered an unintentional foul and the fight declared a no contest; a popular outcome for all concerned ;)
Mundine has been in enough boxing matches to know that he shouldn't have thrown that punch. You could argue technicalities and you might give him the benefit of the doubt if you're feeling very generous and its xmas day.
However, the fact Mundine was warned, repeatedly, for hitting Green in the back of the head (and seemingly not giving 2 hoots) and then highlighting that Green brushed him behind the ear moments later (far from what he was admonished for) shows the mindset of Mundine. That is, fight dirty and try and get inside Greens head.
I think the judges saw it the same way. Mundines dirty tactics were not appreciated by Green, the fans and the judges.
So back to the actual fight. From what i saw, Green was in charge early. Mundine was playing the patient game, figuring he'd have the fitness to come over the top later. Although he was indeed in better condition at the end, i don't think he really dominated like he should have.
To me the whole thing looked like 10 rounds of rope a dope, except the counterattack never actually came.
IMO Green was doing the majority of the attacking and Mundine was constantly looking for the counterpunch, but never pulled the trigger.
I've got no problem giving the fight to Green because he was the aggressor in a somewhat tame fight.
Mundine has been in enough boxing matches to know that he shouldn't have thrown that punch. You could argue technicalities and you might give him the benefit of the doubt if you're feeling very generous and its xmas day.
Yes, Mundine probably shouldn't have thrown that punch but it's a split second decision and he did nothing wrong according to the rules of boxing.
If the referee had called "break", both fighters would have had to have taken a step back before throwing another punch. The referee didn't call "break" so they can keep punching. Of course, Green stopped because the referee grabbed him but that's the referee's fault, not Mundine's.
According to Danny Green the ref wanted to disqualify Mundine after that cheap shot punch but Green said No because there would be bodies in the street with a lot of unhappy fans...seems like that punch was more serious than most of us thought. Green said he should have got a 5 minute breather as well....
According to Danny Green the ref wanted to disqualify Mundine after that cheap shot punch but Green said No because there would be bodies in the street with a lot of unhappy fans...seems like that punch was more serious than most of us thought. Green said he should have got a 5 minute breather as well....
Yes, the victim is supposed to get a 5 minute break after an "unintentional foul".
I reckon Green would have failed the concussion test.
The controversy continues:
One of the doctors involved in the highly anticipated rematch between boxers Anthony Mundine and Danny Green has slammed the decision to continue the fight after Green was concussed in the first round.
Ringside doctor Lou Lewis said he quit his role mid-fight last Friday night because his opinion was ignored.
In a fight within a fight, the two doctors present disagreed about whether Green was fit to continue after being caught off guard by a Mundine blow.
Despite four decades of ringside experience, Dr Lewis was overruled by Dr John O'Neill and the referee.
"I was saying ... the fight should be stopped, I don't want it to go on ... [but] I didn't want to have a fight in the ring with another doctor," Dr Lewis said.
"I said to the referee: 'Are you stopping the fight?' The referee said 'No' ... [and] I said: 'I'm having nothing more to do with this fight'."
Another blow 'could have been fatal'
Other medical experts also have expressed a view the injured boxer was in danger.
"Another serious blow when he's already concussed, it is no exaggeration to say, could have been fatal," Dr Michael Gannon of the Australian Medical Association said.
Green admitted he was concussed after one round but said he had wanted to fight on.
"I'm just going 'let's fight, let's fight, I'm good to go' because that's what you do if you're a warrior," he told the media this week.
"You just do that. You wanna fight, you don't know what the rules are — mate I didn't know if I was Arthur or Martha."
Dr Peter Lewis of the Australasian Ringside Medicine Association also backed the view that the fight should have ended early.
"I'll give you a straight answer, I think I would have called the fight off," he said.
"When you've suffered a blow like that you're concussed so you're not really able to make rational decisions in your own self interest."
Green fought on for nine more rounds and won the bout and a multi-million-dollar prize for his efforts.
Dr Lewis should find another sport to work in.
It seems the issue isn't so black and white, ............
although I bet Mundine would like it to be! ;)
It seems the issue isn't so black and white, ............
although I bet Mundine would like it to be! ;)
I just find the bloke hard to stomach, I cringe every single time he opens his mouth. I mean his old man went to Green's corner after the fight and said "your boy won the fight". Thank fork he is retired and I never have to hear him again. Talk about athletes who dont know how to conduct themselves, this guy is the most ungracious sports person I have ever heard. Enjoy retirement Flog!
I just find the bloke hard to stomach, I cringe every single time he opens his mouth. I mean his old man went to Green's corner after the fight and said "your boy won the fight". Thank fork he is retired and I never have to hear him again. Talk about athletes who dont know how to conduct themselves, this guy is the most ungracious sports person I have ever heard. Enjoy retirement Flog!
I was a big boxing fan back in the day - I took Mrs DJC to TV Ringside for our first date - and I had the privilege of meeting Tony Mundine many years ago. He was a very gentle, humble man and it makes me wonder about the nature vs nurture debate; neither seems to apply in Anthony's case.
I met Linda Stoner the same night that I met Tony :)
I met Linda Stoner the same night that I met Tony :)
Was a bizarre situation back then, Stoner eventually come out as an anti-boxing advocate. Use to see the likes of Judy Green, Judy James and Delvene Delaney at those events as well. Boxing was a place to be seen back then.
Was a bizarre situation back then, Stoner eventually come out as an anti-boxing advocate. Use to see the likes of Judy Green, Judy James and Delvene Delaney at those events as well. Boxing was a place to be seen back then.
Progress.
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/the-fitz-files/danny-green-suffered-bleeding-on-the-brain-against-anthony-mundine-and-yet-they-let-the-fight-go-on-20170210-gua2ci.html
I understand that there is a real push to make sports safe etc, however these guys are fighters and sure let's make thumping each other as safe as possible but on some level this is unavoidable.
The reaction to head trauma in sports lives in the realm of hysteria IMHO.
Everyone is well aware of the risks involved else they'd be knitting instead.
I am staring at images of human brains. Damaged human brains. One, in particular, fascinates me. It looks similar to a textbook MRI scan of a concussed brain, yet the injuries it shows were not caused by the sort of collision – eight-ounce glove on exposed jaw, rutting head on rutting head – that leaves a crowd gasping and a player unsure whether their next step will be a lurch forwards or a stumble sideways. No. This brain was damaged by simply heading a football. A lightweight, modern football.
...
A major problem is that with sub-concussive injuries people don’t realise they have damaged their brains. And so they keep going. “You can bruise any other part of your body and it feels sore,” says Nauman. “But when the same thing happens to your brain it doesn’t have the pain receptors to tell you to ease off for a few days. That is enough to really cause problems.”
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2015/nov/01/football-heading-brain-damage
One of the interesting findings in this study is that the impact of the lightweight soccer balls was "... much higher than expected. Some registered at between 50g and 100g – similar to American Football players crashing into each other or punches thrown by boxers."
As expected Mundine wants another payday in Perth, says he wants to whip Greens Ar$e in front of friends and family, Green at the moment saying he is happy to retire a winner...but we all know a pug will never knock back a big pay cheque so my money is on a rematch at years end.
As some may be aware there was a few blokes streaming the fight on facebook. Foxtel threatened to take them to court for breach of copyright.
They have since backed off, just wanting those involved to message the masses and say that its wrong.
The stream i stumbled across 150k+ viewers....and there were others as well. Should show foxtel that people are fed up with their service.
Folks would probably still take the crooked feed even if Foxtel offered a terrific service....but they do need to get their act together and start offering better options.
We seem to be light years behind pay for view in other countries and the streaming services like Stan and Netflix must be doing them some damage (even if their services aren't as good as similar overseas products)
Folks would probably still take the crooked feed even if Foxtel offered a terrific service....but they do need to get their act together and start offering better options.
We seem to be light years behind pay for view in other countries and the streaming services like Stan and Netflix must be doing them some damage (even if their services aren't as good as similar overseas products)
Everyone I know just goes on their Android TV box and gets most things including sport for Zilch, that fight was on ESPN in the USA so I'm guessing it had a lot more illegal viewers than just the Foxtel stream from Aus...Foxtel is doomed in Aus IMO.
Most deaths in boxing have been more due to dehydration and rapid weight loss than actual knock outs.
Everyone I know just goes on their Android TV box and gets most things including sport for Zilch, that fight was on ESPN in the USA so I'm guessing it had a lot more illegal viewers than just the Foxtel stream from Aus...Foxtel is doomed in Aus IMO.
I gave up on Foxtel a few years ago and I agree, it's on borrowed time. If we could get a pay per view footy channel up and running it would be fantastic ( if cost effective) and would deal a major blow to Foxtel.
Most deaths in boxing have been more due to dehydration and rapid weight loss than actual knock outs.
Really? Not according to the scientific literature, for example:
There were 339 mortalities between 1950 and 2007 (mean age, 24 ± 3.8 years); 64% were associated with knockout and 15% with technical knockout. A higher percentage occurred in the lower weight classes. The preterminal event occurred in the ring (61%), in the locker room (17%), and outside the arena (22%), We evaluated for significant changes after 1983 when championship bouts were reduced from 15 to 12 rounds.
That's from an article "Mortality resulting from head injury in professional boxing" published in
Neurosurgery in Nov 2010. Interestingly, the authors found a significant decline in mortality after 1983 and they hypothesise that the decline is the result of "a reduction in exposure to repetitive head trauma (shorter careers and fewer fights), along with increased medical oversight and stricter safety regulations".
I don't know what happened in the 50s and 60s (refs used to let fights go on too long eg Emile Griffith v Benny Paret) but in the last 20 years most deaths have been smaller fighters who cut tremendous amounts of weight. The bigger guys hit a lot harder but there are less deaths.
Danny Green used to cut a lot to make super middlewight and after a fight he apologised to all the fans for losing despite winning every round and hardly getting hit. He didn't know where he was and later collapsed in the dressing rooms.
For all the people suggesting Mundine won the fight.
Can you explain this....
(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16711783_10155048476586543_5365582317703445704_n.jpg?oh=a0cbbbb2dd06fdf34786a57b19c1f5b8&oe=5933F4CD)
For all the people suggesting Mundine won the fight.
Can you explain this....
I'm not suggesting that Mundine won but there are some anomalies. The referee who scored the fight 98-90 for Green seems to have been watching a different fight. He also gave Green 10 points for the round in which he was penalised a point for elbowing.
Not all punches are equal. Defense and ring generalship come into it. I post on an american boxing board and they all hate Mundine because of the 9/11 comments. Not one person had Green winning.
I'm not suggesting that Mundine won but there are some anomalies. The referee who scored the fight 98-90 for Green seems to have been watching a different fight. He also gave Green 10 points for the round in which he was penalised a point for elbowing.
Which round was Green done for elbowing?
I was watching via illegal facebook feed, and it dropped out briefly a couple of times.
Sure, you can get a round wrong every now and then, but ultimately, the end result was the correct one IMO.
Not all punches are equal. Defense and ring generalship come into it. I post on an american boxing board and they all hate Mundine because of the 9/11 comments. Not one person had Green winning.
My issue with Mundines fight was that he was constantly looking for the counterpunch. He had his right hand cocked the whole fight, but almost never threw it.
If you lose a point in the first round, and are pretty convincingly losing the earlier rounds, you need to be seen to be more aggressive and force the judges to think who deserves the points.
I don't know what he was waiting for, but even in the last round he didn't seem aggressive enough to me. Perhaps he thought he was winning the whole fight and was trying to save it? I dunno, but punching stats show that while you could potentially try and make a case for him, it is far from convincing.
Which round was Green done for elbowing?
Seven.
My issue with Mundines fight was that he was constantly looking for the counterpunch. He had his right hand cocked the whole fight, but almost never threw it.
If you lose a point in the first round, and are pretty convincingly losing the earlier rounds, you need to be seen to be more aggressive and force the judges to think who deserves the points.
I don't know what he was waiting for, but even in the last round he didn't seem aggressive enough to me. Perhaps he thought he was winning the whole fight and was trying to save it? I dunno, but punching stats show that while you could potentially try and make a case for him, it is far from convincing.
Boxing has a very flawed scoring system in that one fighter can dominate and win 5 rounds by a wide margin and lose 7 rounds by a razor close margin and correctly lose the fight.
Also casual fans tend to favour the aggressor because they have less appreciation for the defensive aspect of the sport. Floyd Mayweather v Manny Pacquiao was a perfect example of this, I'm a big Pacquiao fan but he clearly lost a one sided fight but on facebook thousands of people were outraged calling it a robbery and that Mayweather was running.
I scored the Mundine Green fight round by rounds but I lost my bit of paper. (We have just had another baby who also has been in the children's hospital.) I will rescore the fight again when I get time.
Seven.
Yep, missed most of that round. :-[
Boxing has a very flawed scoring system in that one fighter can dominate and win 5 rounds by a wide margin and lose 7 rounds by a razor close margin and correctly lose the fight.
Flawed system? Perhaps. But the system has been in place forever and a day and fighters, smart fighters, take advantage of that system.
If you're in front early - hold on.
If you're behind early - take more chances to try and claw back the margin
To me, it was classic playing for points and Mundine didn't do enough to win back those points that Green won early on. The reason i bring up being aggressive is for this fact. I know Mundine had a lot of the fight on his terms....but again, Green was allowing that to happen as long as he didn't get knocked out. He was playing for points. Which he did successfully.
We have just had another baby who also has been in the children's hospital.
That's for more important than the results of a boxing match MBB!
Congratulations and best wishes for a speedy resolution of the hospital issues.
Green throws a lot of leather, it can look impressive even when none of it hits its target or is blocked...Mundine is a counter puncher, he doesnt have a lot behind his punches either and even when he counters and connects its more about getting the points than trying to be overly damaging.
I dislike Mundine and his attitude and am a Green supporter but I thought Mundine threw less punches but more of his hit their mark all be it without much fanfare but if they connect you have to score it and I felt the ref's didnt give him enough points for the times he caught Green clearly.
I would have my money on Mundine in a rematch....points decision..
Green throws a lot of leather, it can look impressive even when none of it hits its target or is blocked...Mundine is a counter puncher, he doesnt have a lot behind his punches either and even when he counters and connects its more about getting the points than trying to be overly damaging.
I dislike Mundine and his attitude and am a Green supporter but I thought Mundine threw less punches but more of his hit their mark all be it without much fanfare but if they connect you have to score it and I felt the ref's didnt give him enough points for the times he caught Green clearly.
I would have my money on Mundine in a rematch....points decision..
Did you see the punch stats from the fight?
Green certainly did throw more than Mundine....but Green landed more too. Even landed more 'power punches'.
Did you see the punch stats from the fight?
Green certainly did throw more than Mundine....but Green landed more too. Even landed more 'power punches'.
The Compubox stats definitely support the Green victory.
I wonder if the wiser heads in the Mundine camp will prevail and pull his ill-conceived protest.
Mundine wasted time thinking his coward punch would do all the work and cause Green's demise late in the match. He wanted a lazy coward win, akin to a king hit on a hopeless staggering drunk. When it didn't pan out, when Green didn't deliver Mundine his cheating victory, Mundine cried like a bitch!
Compubox defines a power punch as anything that isn't a jab. It really is misleading, Mundine clearly landed the cleaner and harder shots.
Compubox defines a power punch as anything that isn't a jab. It really is misleading, Mundine clearly landed the cleaner and harder shots.
The cleanist and hardest shots landed by mundine were the ones that hit Green on the back of the head and the R1 knockout blow....and perhaps a couple of low blows as well.
Hardly going to win you rounds.
Nothing was going to win Mundine rounds on one judges scorecard. He scored rd 7 10-10 despite Green losing a point.
Nothing was going to win Mundine rounds on one judges scorecard. He scored rd 7 10-10 despite Green losing a point.
Must've been a fan of Spinal Tap. ;)