Looks like we may see him given a last shot.
(we're being softened up ;))
He may need a couple more weeks in the VFL before a call-up but we probably could afford to send Henderson off for an operation (even if he doesn't need one ;))
http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/2014-07-15/positional-switch-paying-off
I've said it all season. Watson showed more last season in two stints up forward than he did for his remaining time down back. I honestly thought we would try an turn him into a CHF this season, but no, until now.
A forward set up of Casboult deep and Watson high has serious merit.
1. Watson is an outstanding kick for length and when given time accuracy.
2. Watson made his name in juniors not as a true key defender but a floating tall where he could use his best skill, kicking to set up attack. So he has learned to read the play more than negate his man, which is a natural forward tendency.
3. Watson has clean hands, he's no Levi when it comes to marking, but he's good enough. That play where he snuck around behind Levi marked on the lead was very good, just didn't have the confidence to kick the goal.
4. As a high CHF he would draw the opposition backman out past 50 as Watson can kick it from there which he demonstrated last season. This would give Menzel a bit more room to operate in, or get Levi some more one on one's closer to goal.
If we play Watson as a forward for the rest of the season, and he shows promise, it could drive up his trade value. Would the Bulldogs/Saints be interested enough to give up a second rounder for him if he does well?
I've said it all season. Watson showed more last season in two stints up forward than he did for his remaining time down back. I honestly thought we would try an turn him into a CHF this season, but no, until now.
A forward set up of Casboult deep and Watson high has serious merit.
1. Watson is an outstanding kick for length and when given time accuracy.
2. Watson made his name in juniors not as a true key defender but a floating tall where he could use his best skill, kicking to set up attack. So he has learned to read the play more than negate his man, which is a natural forward tendency.
3. Watson has clean hands, he's no Levi when it comes to marking, but he's good enough. That play where he snuck around behind Levi marked on the lead was very good, just didn't have the confidence to kick the goal.
4. As a high CHF he would draw the opposition backman out past 50 as Watson can kick it from there which he demonstrated last season. This would give Menzel a bit more room to operate in, or get Levi some more one on one's closer to goal.
If we play Watson as a forward for the rest of the season, and he shows promise, it could drive up his trade value. Would the Bulldogs/Saints be interested enough to give up a second rounder for him if he does well?
I think this idea should be trialled - nice work Raydan.
Make it happen Mick.
@Raydan
If Watson shows anything as a forward we should keep him for next year and forget about trading him - unless it was as part of a deal for somebody we really want.
I posted Watson to the forwardline last year and this year. Good to see him finally getting a go there at VFL level because as a backman he aint up to it at VFL or AFL level.
Watson kicked 5 at one stage in his draft year as a HFF, so not as a CHF but rather as a 3rd type tall.
Happy for him to play this role with Casboult and Henderson there too.
I've had a long rethink on this guy and have come up with an alternative option for us to try.
Some people think he should be persisted with and given that we have nothing to lose this season, let's trial him as a FF.
Yes, you read that right, as a FF !!
Casboult is being given every opportunity to succeed and his size ideally suits the CHF role as well as giving him some additional space to run into up the ground.
Watson is 195cm & 101kg, he is a decent-sized lad, he showed that can take the ball on the lead and we know he has a huge booming kick on him. Plonk him in the goal-square and tell him to lead straight up the ground, the mids will deliver it lace-out on his chest.
He is bereft of confidence right now and there is nothing worse than playing a key role in defence when you're second guessing yourself.
Give him the remainder of the season as a forward and see how he goes, if it doesn't work then we are no worse off than we are right now. If he ends up succeeding, then we have just solved another of our bigger issues.
I've had a long rethink on this guy and have come up with an alternative option for us to try.
Some people think he should be persisted with and given that we have nothing to lose this season, let's trial him as a FF.
Yes, you read that right, as a FF !!
Casboult is being given every opportunity to succeed and his size ideally suits the CHF role as well as giving him some additional space to run into up the ground.
Watson is 195cm & 101kg, he is a decent-sized lad, he showed that can take the ball on the lead and we know he has a huge booming kick on him. Plonk him in the goal-square and tell him to lead straight up the ground, the mids will deliver it lace-out on his chest.
He is bereft of confidence right now and there is nothing worse than playing a key role in defence when you're second guessing yourself.
Give him the remainder of the season as a forward and see how he goes, if it doesn't work then we are no worse off than we are right now. If he ends up succeeding, then we have just solved another of our bigger issues.
That's where the whole theory could break down!
Dud....trade bait, you have to chase, tackle and do the 1% ers to be a good forward...Watson cant even do that as a backman.
He needs to be given a chance. He has shown he is not the answer at CHB. If he is to remain on our list, he has be able to play somewhere. If he doesn't make it as a forward, the next step is elsewhere.
Dud....trade bait, you have to chase, tackle and do the 1% ers to be a good forward...Watson cant even do that as a backman.
Exactly.
We ve already spent time and patience grooming Levi through many years of spudtastic football.
Do we have to do the same with this guy ?
My last memory of him as a forward was his miss from right in front against Hawthorn that stuffed up the momentum we d built up to that point of the game.
Rookie position at best next year.
Trade watson.....
Whatever you can get....
The value of playing blokes such as Watson and Lucas is that it enables the regulars to have physical repair and recovery. I don't expect any of these guys to do a McLean and turn their career's around. There's no harm in giving them a final shot, game results mean squat, and if they do show something its a benefit.
I don't reckon that Watson is worth 5 cents.
BUT I thought the same about Gordon Collis in 1963. Collis was our Centre-Half Forward that year. In 1964 he was switched to Centre half back and won the Brownlow Medal from Ken Fraser the Essendon CHF who was hot favourite that year to win.
Who knows, maybe Watson can do another Collis by switching from a back to a forward. But he does have limitations, no right foot, and like Rowe, panics under pressure.
It's worth a try, especially now that Waite is gone.
I don't reckon that Watson is worth 5 cents.
BUT I thought the same about Gordon Collis in 1963. Collis was our Centre-Half Forward that year. In 1964 he was switched to Centre half back and won the Brownlow Medal from Ken Fraser the Essendon CHF who was hot favourite that year to win.
Who knows, maybe Watson can do another Collis by switching from a back to a forward. But he does have limitations, no right foot, and like Rowe, panics under pressure.
It's worth a try, especially now that Waite is gone.
I'm too young to remember Collis, but when Earl Spalding first came across from Melbourne in 1992, I thought he was the biggest waste of space. Couldn't kick straight to save himself.
While he didn't reach superstar status, he became a pretty handy player for us, particularly between the period of about 1994-96.
Who knows, maybe Watson can do another Collis by switching from a back to a forward. But he does have limitations, no right foot, and like Rowe, panics under pressure.
It's worth a try, especially now that Waite is gone.
It's not new, he has been tried before, I'd like to know who he was up against before we pump up his tyres as a potential forward. However, given his size and marking ability opposition cannot sit a non-gorilla on him. The only potential damaging match up would be a Gibson type and there are not too many of those. Watson is at least as mobile as Cloke if he can develop some mongrel!
But as far as trading I have a concern, given the Laidler disaster I have no confidence left in the MM lead MC to make correct decisions at all! They are too prejudiced with this idea that players need to flexible.
@D7
Yep, that was one of the burning questions of the early 90s - Where the ball was likely to end up after it left Earl's boot. ???
We've put alot into him so it's best we explore every angle with him before making any decisions.
Interestingly, we got Henderson as a CHF and he played his best footy at CHB thus far (will be a real good forward for us when fit though), we got Rowe as a CHF now performing decently at CHB, so we have nothing to lose here and once again we might find out something that benefits us by putting Watson forward. Reading the play well often results in a good forward.
@D7
Yep, that was one of the burning questions of the early 90s - Where the ball was likely to end up after it left Earl's boot. ???
Often where it lands after it leaves Levi's boot.
Watson. LOL. Another example of our great recruiting ::)
Watson. LOL. Another example of our great recruiting ::)
I think way too much emphasis is being put on the board, recruitment, players, etc., and way too little light is being shone on player development because of that focus. The coaches, MC and specialists are getting away with shizenhouse player development by having that distraction!
There are blokes languishing at the NBs that look to have made zero progress since being drafted as 18 years olds two or three years ago, spuds or not that just simply shouldn't be the case, we should be seeing progress at some level!
Regardless of what happens in the draft or trade week, if we don't get the player development right the players will continue to be wasted!
Watson. LOL. Another example of our great recruiting ::)
I think way too much emphasis is being put on the board, recruitment, players, etc., and way too little light is being shone on player development because of that focus. The coaches, MC and specialists are getting away with shizenhouse player development by having that distraction!
There are blokes languishing at the NBs that look to have made zero progress since being drafted as 18 years olds two or three years ago, spuds or not that just simply shouldn't be the case, we should be seeing progress at some level!
Regardless of what happens in the draft or trade week, if we don't get the player development right the players will continue to be wasted!
But then when the club tries to develop a player and try them in a different position, everyone flaps about and says 'why bother, he's a spud, he missed that goal a few weeks ago....'
Same rubbish as always, won't give a kid a go but then whinge when we've got no players coming through.
The match committee needs to play kids for the rest of the year and give them a decent run. Play Watto in the forward line in senior team, give Graham a full bloody game without making him the sub. Keep playing Johnson and give Holman a crack. We've got nothing to lose anymore, but plenty to gain in these kids.
We've put alot into him so it's best we explore every angle with him before making any decisions.
Pretty much, but I would like it to be an extended run to make a serious assesment rather than just a couple weeks. He sure has some attributes that would help him but then again he needs to work on his intensity I feel. Imagine if he comes on as a forward I will lose it I reckon in a good way.
Watson. LOL. Another example of our great recruiting ::)
I think way too much emphasis is being put on the board, recruitment, players, etc., and way too little light is being shone on player development because of that focus. The coaches, MC and specialists are getting away with shizenhouse player development by having that distraction!
There are blokes languishing at the NBs that look to have made zero progress since being drafted as 18 years olds two or three years ago, spuds or not that just simply shouldn't be the case, we should be seeing progress at some level!
Regardless of what happens in the draft or trade week, if we don't get the player development right the players will continue to be wasted!
Some of them started so far back that no matter how much progress they made, it wouldn't bring them up to AFL level - eg McCarthy, Temay, Collins, Lucas, Bower, Bootsma, Mitchell, McInnes, Davies, Kerr, Heyne, Dale, Bray, Carter, Lodge, Austin, Twomey, Dare, Watson... just some of the recruits over the past 3-4 years who really weren't up to it, not matter how much development you could have put into these cats it is unlikely they would be able to cut the mustard. (Yes I know Austin is showing something for the Dishlickers but is still not the sort of tall defender you'd see in a top side).
Last year's recruiting already seems streets ahead of the last decade or so... Cripps, Reynolds, both Ciarans, Johnson, Docherty, Holman ... all show plenty of promise at different stages of development. Haven't seen enough of Giles yet to get a feel for the bloke. (didn't include Everitt or Daisy as they'd already proved they could play before arriving.) Wood may yet surprise. Jury is out on Graham, though, with little to lose now he should be given the remainder of the season to show whether he can or can't cut it. Many will want the same for Watson as the reborn forward, but the same old same old will dog him... too slow, in many ways. He really did not have great competition over the last two weeks up forward - with an AFL quality tall defender on him, well, I'd rather not think about it - love to be really, really wrong.
So let's keep this level of recruiting up... or even improve upon it then ensure we develop the above and the next lot with the right people. Time to be great at recruiting and great at development.
Who knows, maybe Watson can do another Collis by switching from a back to a forward. But he does have limitations, no right foot, and like Rowe, panics under pressure.
It's worth a try, especially now that Waite is gone.
It's not new, he has been tried before, I'd like to know who he was up against before we pump up his tyres as a potential forward. However, given his size and marking ability opposition cannot sit a non-gorilla on him. The only potential damaging match up would be a Gibson type and there are not too many of those. Watson is at least as mobile as Cloke :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) if he can develop some mongrel! Can you get it in a bottle?
But as far as trading I have a concern, given the Laidler disaster I have no confidence left in the MM lead MC to make correct decisions at all! They are too prejudiced with this idea that players need to flexible.
Cloke would run rings around Watto
Who knows, maybe Watson can do another Collis by switching from a back to a forward. But he does have limitations, no right foot, and like Rowe, panics under pressure.
It's worth a try, especially now that Waite is gone.
It's not new, he has been tried before, I'd like to know who he was up against before we pump up his tyres as a potential forward. However, given his size and marking ability opposition cannot sit a non-gorilla on him. The only potential damaging match up would be a Gibson type and there are not too many of those. Watson is at least as mobile as Cloke :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) if he can develop some mongrel! Can you get it in a bottle?
But as far as trading I have a concern, given the Laidler disaster I have no confidence left in the MM lead MC to make correct decisions at all! They are too prejudiced with this idea that players need to flexible.
Cloke would run rings around Watto
Already has RR?
I don't reckon that Watson is worth 5 cents.
BUT I thought the same about Gordon Collis in 1963. Collis was our Centre-Half Forward that year. In 1964 he was switched to Centre half back and won the Brownlow Medal from Ken Fraser the Essendon CHF who was hot favourite that year to win.
Who knows, maybe Watson can do another Collis by switching from a back to a forward. But he does have limitations, no right foot, and like Rowe, panics under pressure.
It's worth a try, especially now that Waite is gone.
I'm too young to remember Collis, but when Earl Spalding first came across from Melbourne in 1992, I thought he was the biggest waste of space. Couldn't kick straight to save himself.
While he didn't reach superstar status, he became a pretty handy player for us, particularly between the period of about 1994-96.
Thought the same about Michael Sexton early in his career. Would drop easy marks, turn the ball over, I thought he was awful. Man he proved me wrong.
Bruce Doulls first 10 games were average.
SOS' first two season included some deadest floggings but you could see that he was going to be good... real good.
Kouta took a long time to get established... because they didn't know what to do with him.
Cloke would run rings around Watto
Already has RR?
I think you have to be careful not to assess mobility using fitness or strength.
Is Watson as fit as Cloke, absolutely not, but is Watson as mobile as Cloke I think so!
Cloke is neither fast or agile, he uses brute strength to push off opponents and get a break, speed has nothing to do with it but fitness does because he repeats this lead over and over again!
Watson played about the worst game of football I have seen from a senior player when he last played......I dont want to be relying on this flaky numptie to be kicking goals when the chips are down. I dont think he has the mental capacity to play the game at a high level for 100 minutes....dislikes physical contact and has less awareness on a footy field than Clive Palmer has in Parliment which tells you how well he is going....
Cloke would run rings around Watto
Already has RR?
I think you have to be careful not to assess mobility using fitness or strength.
Is Watson as fit as Cloke, absolutely not, but is Watson as mobile as Cloke I think so!
Cloke is neither fast or agile, he uses brute strength to push off opponents and get a break, speed has nothing to do with it but fitness does because he repeats this lead over and over again!
We, well at least I, speak figuratively. "To run rings round" someone is an idiom that can be used, among other things, to describe the act of showing more ability e.g. in footy, than that another person. I think Cloke would demonstrate that over Watson in spades and I think most who watch any footy would agree on that. But please, feel free to continue to split hairs.
Watson played about the worst game of football I have seen from a senior player when he last played......I dont want to be relying on this flaky numptie to be kicking goals when the chips are down. I dont think he has the mental capacity to play the game at a high level for 100 minutes....dislikes physical contact and has less awareness on a footy field than Clive Palmer has in Parliment which tells you how well he is going....
Yep we cannot rely on him.
EB, our KP stocks are poor as we all know.
Do you think we chase Jaksch from GWS or try to go hard and give up more for a Patton?
Go for gold Pratty. Great KPP are invaluable It's no time to penny pinch
Its a NO from me ,waste of space nice kid no footy smart
Cloke would run rings around Watto
Already has RR?
I think you have to be careful not to assess mobility using fitness or strength.
Is Watson as fit as Cloke, absolutely not, but is Watson as mobile as Cloke I think so!
Cloke is neither fast or agile, he uses brute strength to push off opponents and get a break, speed has nothing to do with it but fitness does because he repeats this lead over and over again!
We, well at least I, speak figuratively. "To run rings round" someone is an idiom that can be used, among other things, to describe the act of showing more ability e.g. in footy, than that another person. I think Cloke would demonstrate that over Watson in spades and I think most who watch any footy would agree on that. But please, feel free to continue to split hairs.
Even contemplating similarities between Cloke and Watto is fraught with danger. They are both males and they both are tall - similarities concluded.
Both have pretty big heads as well.
Both have pretty big heads as well.
In the literal sense of course. :))
Both have pretty big heads as well.
Is Watson any less or more effective than Casboult at the same stage of their career?
I think some of Watson's early games in the 1s were far more effective than Casboult's first efforts. Some would say Watson's efforts in the 1s exceeded his effort in the 2s!
If Casboult turns into "A Miracle" then it suggests Watson needs at least one or two more years on the list at least!
@LP
Agree, if Watson shows any promise as a forward this year then we should make sure he gets a good opportunity to develop for us. In these circumstances I would favour giving him every opportunity next year.
Mick doesn't give extended runs in the seniors and he isn't a great VFL performer. He'll never make it here.
Watson played about the worst game of football I have seen from a senior player when he last played......I dont want to be relying on this flaky numptie to be kicking goals when the chips are down. I dont think he has the mental capacity to play the game at a high level for 100 minutes....dislikes physical contact and has less awareness on a footy field than Clive Palmer has in Parliment which tells you how well he is going....
Yep we cannot rely on him.
EB, our KP stocks are poor as we all know.
Do you think we chase Jaksch from GWS or try to go hard and give up more for a Patton?
Pratty, I would try for Jaksch and also look at Vickery...the latter I know doesnt enthuse much support on this forum but I think
at a different club could be a good player...
I like Jaksch because he can play both ends of the ground.........problem will be finding a suitable trade deal....
Both have pretty big heads as well.
Is Watson any less or more effective than Casboult at the same stage of their career?
I think some of Watson's early games in the 1s were far more effective than Casboult's first efforts. Some would say Watson's efforts in the 1s exceeded his effort in the 2s!
If Casboult turns into "A Miracle" then it suggests Watson needs at least one or two more years on the list at least!
Sorry Spotted One, but Meat showed heaps from the get-go. Especially his marking and general footy nouse... his only weakness was consistency and his tank in the early years was way off the mark - still had baby fat for the first two years at PP.
Mick doesn't give extended runs in the seniors and he isn't a great VFL performer. He'll never make it here.
He is one of a a type that aren't easy to come by - good ones that is. Many people had both Levi and Rowe written off, not that long ago. It would be madness not to thoroughly explore all options for Watson. OK, we know he's not a defender.
Sorry Spotted One, but Meat showed heaps from the get-go. Especially his marking and general footy nouse... his only weakness was consistency and his tank in the early years was way off the mark - still had baby fat for the first two years at PP.
Keep in mind Casboult has been on the list longer.
Yet actually, Watson made his debut first before getting injured.
Prior to this season they were statistically inseparable, that is despite what people remember and also the critical issue that they play at different ends of the ground!
He deserves as much lenience as Casboult or else we are probably just being a bit prejudiced!
When he gets to the ball he is almost as good a mark as Casboult and kicks far better!
Like Casboult he has fitness issues, but so did Casboult a year ago!
The similarities are astounding! ;)
The similarities are astounding! ;)
Watson is the next Hawkins? :P
The similarities are astounding! ;)
Watson is the next Hawkins? :P
None of them are the next Carey or Brown though!
As a general rule, a lot of the current batch are way over-rated compared to the CHFs of the past! I think it is because as a position KPF, being a dedicated position, nearly dead and buried.
ben reid played 4yrs in reserve,i reckon we give him the next 6weeks to show something plus his contracted for 2015.
Maybe we should give him one last run. But I reckon even if you boil him, fry him or bake him - he's still a spud.
Maybe we should give him one last run. But I reckon even if you boil him, fry him or bake him - he's still a spud.
Just don't play him this week on Scott Thompson for God's sake.
ben reid played 4yrs in reserve,i reckon we give him the next 6weeks to show something plus his contracted for 2015.
Well said Mina !!
We have absolutely nothing to lose by playing him, besides, Hendo is not far away from going in for surgery so Watson will certainly be needed in the team sooner or later.
Realistically, I would say that if we could get a good trade for him, then we should consider it, but if all we could get was another spud or if we were going to delist him, then we should see if he could be developed further as a forward.
We've put too much effort in to let him go for nothing while he is still contracted.
Until this year Watson hadn't really played a bad game in the seniors, actually alot better than he player for the NB's, and did show some promise (the two games this year have admittedly been shockers). Hopefully a run up forward will uncover something. Nothing to lose as we're not over endowed with KP stocks.
Until this year Watson hadn't really played a bad game in the seniors, actually alot better than he player for the NB's, and did show some promise (the two games this year have admittedly been shockers). Hopefully a run up forward will uncover something. Nothing to lose as we're not over endowed with KP stocks.
I agree and in retrospect, if I recall correctly, we learned after the games that his bad games were related to foot or leg injuries being carried so hardly a fair assessment for a bloke with a dozen or so games under his belt.
Why he performs better in the 1s than the 2s is a mystery, but he does without doubt, and we need to be happy with that!
As a defender he reminds me of a young Lake or Scarlett, they used those similar quick chip kicks barely collecting the ball before disposing of it. Those very actions show that he has good vision and situational awareness even if he isn't as swift or agile. I found when he actually commits to go he has good closing speed, but often he appears to be indecisive which makes any player look slow or lazy.
I'd like to see Kreuzer, Casboult and Watson in the one side without Warnock. They are all 200cm types who can, if well coached, play a role in both ruck and KP play. Casboult has really improved in the ruck this year, not in regards to taps but in regards to recovery and 2nd efforts, he has the ability to make opposition mid fielders hesitant(Like Kreuzer does), which is something Warnock rarely does.
You don't have to win heaps of taps to be a great ruckmen, look at Mumford and Pyke. They concentrate of nullifying the ruck opponent then tackling opposition mids or blocking for team-mates in the recovery phase. Stuff I think is more valuable than taps.
Until this year Watson hadn't really played a bad game in the seniors, actually alot better than he player for the NB's, and did show some promise (the two games this year have admittedly been shockers). Hopefully a run up forward will uncover something. Nothing to lose as we're not over endowed with KP stocks.
That's my thinking also. We have nothing to lose and who knows he might surprise.
Until this year Watson hadn't really played a bad game in the seniors, actually alot better than he player for the NB's, and did show some promise (the two games this year have admittedly been shockers). Hopefully a run up forward will uncover something. Nothing to lose as we're not over endowed with KP stocks.
That's my thinking also. We have nothing to lose and who knows he might surprise.
Watson could be the competitions next Josh Jenkins, EFC will regret trading that kid, we don't want Watson to leave until we are certain about his fate!
Many people had both Levi and Rowe written off, not that long ago. It would be madness not to thoroughly explore all options for Watson. OK, we know he's not a defender.
Casboult and Rowe wouldn't get a game in a good side, the fact that we're booming them up as success stories just shows how far off the pace we are.
Watson's no good, apart from his obvious physical limitations he doesn't have the temperament for AFL football.
Many people had both Levi and Rowe written off, not that long ago. It would be madness not to thoroughly explore all options for Watson. OK, we know he's not a defender.
Casboult and Rowe wouldn't get a game in a good side, the fact that we're booming them up as success stories just shows how far off the pace we are.
Watson's no good, apart from his obvious physical limitations he doesn't have the temperament for AFL football.
Neither would Laider...oh wait!
I'm guessing Casboult would get a game in a few sides on current form. That would include Hawthorn (with Buddy gone), Geelong, Freo and Collingwood. Like Laider, would probably play better in another side too.
I'm guessing Casboult would get a game in a few sides on current form. That would include Hawthorn (with Buddy gone), Geelong, Freo and Collingwood.
You're dreaming, he'd be lucky to get a game with Box Hill, let alone Hawthorn.
Who do you reckon Hawthorn would drop to fit him in, Roughead or Gunston?
It's sad that we have to hang all our hopes on second raters, that's what a decade of failure does I guess.
I'm guessing Casboult would get a game in a few sides on current form. That would include Hawthorn (with Buddy gone), Geelong, Freo and Collingwood.
You're dreaming, he'd be lucky to get a game with Box Hill, let alone Hawthorn.
Who do you reckon Hawthorn would drop to fit him in, Roughead or Gunston?
It's sad that we have to hang all our hopes on second raters, that's what a decade of failure does I guess.
You hang your hopes on who you've got until something better comes along. You have to try all options and combinations available to you from the list you have. You never know what you might be able to come up with. What's the point in not doing that - that sounds like quitting to me?
Many people had both Levi and Rowe written off, not that long ago. It would be madness not to thoroughly explore all options for Watson. OK, we know he's not a defender.
Casboult and Rowe wouldn't get a game in a good side, the fact that we're booming them up as success stories just shows how far off the pace we are.
Watson's no good, apart from his obvious physical limitations he doesn't have the temperament for AFL football.
Neither would Laider...oh wait!
I'm guessing Casboult would get a game in a few sides on current form. That would include Hawthorn (with Buddy gone), Geelong, Freo and Collingwood. Like Laider, would probably play better in another side too.
Truth is we don't know what teams think of a player and how well they would go.
Nic Davis
Matt Clape
Premiership players that MM let go.
I would bet a sizeable sum that Freo would pay overs for Casboult because he's exactly what they need.
They have (or will have) the best small forward line in the game soon. Mayne, Ballantyne and Walters would clean up everything that Casboult doesn't mark.
Getting off topic with the Casboult chat... But I had written him off but am happy to admit I have now given him another chance.
I wont go as far as to say he has arrived so to speak, but he has shown some improvement in his kicking and also in his speed and tank. I still think he doesn't look overly confident in his kicking, but if he continues to get a few through the big sticks, he may turn that around.
The kicking definitely needs to continue to improve though. There's not much point having a forward who clunks marks all around the ground but cant convert.
You hang your hopes on who you've got until something better comes along. You have to try all options and combinations available to you from the list you have. You never know what you might be able to come up with. What's the point in not doing that - that sounds like quitting to me?
I agree completely Cookie, at this stage of the journey Casboult is the best prospect we've got, but I'm not going to get involved in the group hug.
I've seen a lot of good footballers in my time and he's not one of them, neither is Watson.
A few years ago this board was in raptures over Shaun Hampson and his unlimited potential, he was last seen in the VFL.
I'll front up on Friday night and cheer for the boys, and I hope Levi kicks a bag.
I think with Levi, the potential is definitely there. Get him into a team with a decent culture, a decent forward coach, give him a full pre season to get his kicking sorted - his stocks would rise considerably methinks. But at this point, you don't want him kicking for goal more than 10m out.
But at this point, you don't want him kicking for goal more than 10m out.
Actually, we may find his accuracy / reliability is about the same from 10m or 60m. So given he is one of only a couple on our list who can kick almost 60m why not put him at CHF so he doesn't blow gimmes from within the goal square!
Opposition supporters rate Casboult far more highly than most on here do, from my experience.
He is an elite mark, he busts packs and you can see his team mates walking a little taller when he's around. He's a huge physical presence, and his kicking has actually improved considerably already.
You'd have to be a lunatic to trade him or let him go after we've put so much into his development. He's only just become an AFL standard player and most clubs would jump at a chance to sign him.
Watson, on the other hand, just doesn't seem to have the fire in the belly to make it as an AFL footballer. He doesn't have the intensity required, even though he has plenty of the physical attributes. It's a shame as he definitely has a lethal hoof on him, but it's not enough by itself.
Watson, on the other hand, just doesn't seem to have the fire in the belly to make it as an AFL footballer. He doesn't have the intensity required, even though he has plenty of the physical attributes. It's a shame as he definitely has a lethal hoof on him, but it's not enough by itself.
I am pleasantly surprised by Casboult, and glad he is on the way to proving me wrong if he consistently improves. I hope this isn't one of those bursts before the contract type scenarios some players put out for the dollars.
But in terms of Casboult's v Watson early days I cannot find a significant difference between them. I'd even say some of Watson's early 1s games surpassed Casboult's and by some margin. So I won't be throwing Watson out with the bath water, especially with Waite about to retire. ;)
Watson, on the other hand, just doesn't seem to have the fire in the belly to make it as an AFL footballer. He doesn't have the intensity required, even though he has plenty of the physical attributes. It's a shame as he definitely has a lethal hoof on him, but it's not enough by itself.
I am pleasantly surprised by Casboult, and glad he is on the way to proving me wrong if he consistently improves. I hope this isn't one of those bursts before the contract type scenarios some players put out for the dollars.
But in terms of Casboult's v Watson early days I cannot find a significant difference between them. I'd even say some of Watson's early 1s games surpassed Casboult's and by some margin. So I won't be throwing Watson out with the bath water, especially with Waite about to retire. ;)
Can certainly respect that stance and I agree that Watson has played some solid games earlier in his career, but I still maintain that was more to do with the fact that he's actually got talent than anything else. I don't doubt Watson's talent at all, I question his attitude and application. As I said, he doesn't appear to have the hunger or desire to be a top line player (at least for us) and is playing like he is just going through the motions.
Can certainly respect that stance and I agree that Watson has played some solid games earlier in his career, but I still maintain that was more to do with the fact that he's actually got talent than anything else. I don't doubt Watson's talent at all, I question his attitude and application. As I said, he doesn't appear to have the hunger or desire to be a top line player (at least for us) and is playing like he is just going through the motions.
This was exactly the sort of criticism leveled at Casboult early on, which is why I see the similarities.
Watson, on the other hand, just doesn't seem to have the fire in the belly to make it as an AFL footballer. He doesn't have the intensity required, even though he has plenty of the physical attributes. It's a shame as he definitely has a lethal hoof on him, but it's not enough by itself.
I am pleasantly surprised by Casboult, and glad he is on the way to proving me wrong if he consistently improves. I hope this isn't one of those bursts before the contract type scenarios some players put out for the dollars.
But in terms of Casboult's v Watson early days I cannot find a significant difference between them. I'd even say some of Watson's early 1s games surpassed Casboult's and by some margin. So I won't be throwing Watson out with the bath water, especially with Waite about to retire. ;)
Can certainly respect that stance and I agree that Watson has played some solid games earlier in his career, but I still maintain that was more to do with the fact that he's actually got talent than anything else. I don't doubt Watson's talent at all, I question his attitude and application. As I said, he doesn't appear to have the hunger or desire to be a top line player (at least for us) and is playing like he is just going through the motions.
If true he won't be given a meaningful run by MM from what we've heard.
If true he won't be given a meaningful run by MM from what we've heard.
He is one of the few 2s players that gets a regular mention by MM, but I concede that may be the salesmen in MM hard at work!
Watson, on the other hand, just doesn't seem to have the fire in the belly to make it as an AFL footballer. He doesn't have the intensity required, even though he has plenty of the physical attributes. It's a shame as he definitely has a lethal hoof on him, but it's not enough by itself.
I am pleasantly surprised by Casboult, and glad he is on the way to proving me wrong if he consistently improves. I hope this isn't one of those bursts before the contract type scenarios some players put out for the dollars.
But in terms of Casboult's v Watson early days I cannot find a significant difference between them. I'd even say some of Watson's early 1s games surpassed Casboult's and by some margin. So I won't be throwing Watson out with the bath water, especially with Waite about to retire. ;)
It's good for a person to admit their mistakes, even better to learn from them. Been there before myself! :P
I agree BTW.
It's good for a person to admit their mistakes, even better to learn from them. Been there before myself! :P
I agree BTW.
There a long way to go yet, Meat could turn into another Sammy before this season over! ;)
Watson, on the other hand, just doesn't seem to have the fire in the belly to make it as an AFL footballer. He doesn't have the intensity required, even though he has plenty of the physical attributes. It's a shame as he definitely has a lethal hoof on him, but it's not enough by itself.
I am pleasantly surprised by Casboult, and glad he is on the way to proving me wrong if he consistently improves. I hope this isn't one of those bursts before the contract type scenarios some players put out for the dollars.
But in terms of Casboult's v Watson early days I cannot find a significant difference between them. I'd even say some of Watson's early 1s games surpassed Casboult's and by some margin. So I won't be throwing Watson out with the bath water, especially with Waite about to retire. ;)
It's good for a person to admit their mistakes, even better to learn from them. Been there before myself! :P
I agree BTW.
Once again, I'd love to be proven wrong. Key position players don't grow on trees and if Watson can turn into a gun FF/CHF for us, that'd be an outstanding result.
Unfortunately, I just see the areas him lacking in to be areas that you can't really train into someone. You can teach someone to kick better or even to run to better positions, but you can't teach them to want to be gun footballers. It's a desire issue that I have with Watson, in that I'm just yet to really see him display that true hunger to be amazing. He's certainly got the skills and the size to be outstanding, it's all down to his application and desire.
He reminds me a bit of Adrian De Luca in that regard.
Casboult was fat, looked lazy and look disinterested, timid and precious for almost four years! ;)
If true he won't be given a meaningful run by MM from what we've heard.
He is one of the few 2s players that gets a regular mention by MM, but I concede that may be the salesmen in MM hard at work!
He's of the type we are short of so I guess MM would love him to come good - I agree it's probably his way of either encouraging him or promoting him to other clubs.
@Nathbear
I agree hunger is lacking. Needs to show some emotion, play like he really cares and it really means something to him. I just wonder how much he hated Carlton before he came.