Watching the Box Hill Hawks yesterday (and Footscray on Saturday), I can't help thinking we are going nowhere until our newbies have a decent kindergarten to learn the craft. Our development of young players has been nothing short of disastrous for many years, and we need to emulate what the successful teams are doing.
I think it's time to put a Carlton side in the VFL, play at Visy park every week, and get some mature bodies on the VFL list to give the kids a chance to learn alongside them.
Geelong, Collingwood, Essendon, Footscay and Box Hill (virtually the Hawks) are doing it now, and their AFL sides are showing the benefit. Heaven knows the Northern Blues are hardly an attractive option for a VFL-level player.
Time we joined the party before we get left behind yet again.
Many will agree with you here Tonyo, including me. Will it ever happen is the real question.
Watching the Box Hill Hawks yesterday (and Footscray on Saturday), I can't help thinking we are going nowhere until our newbies have a decent kindergarten to learn the craft. Our development of young players has been nothing short of disastrous for many years, and we need to emulate what the successful teams are doing.
I think it's time to put a Carlton side in the VFL, play at Visy park every week, and get some mature bodies on the VFL list to give the kids a chance to learn alongside them.
Geelong, Collingwood, Essendon, Footscay and Box Hill (virtually the Hawks) are doing it now, and their AFL sides are showing the benefit. Heaven knows the Northern Blues are hardly an attractive option for a VFL-level player.
Time we joined the party before we get left behind yet again.
Makes almost screw all difference. You're using the Box Hill Hawks as an example and yet we are copying their model.
Our seconds are ordinary because the list isn't strong, deep or healthy.
We lost our best three players from the NB's.
Just need to make that association strong. The fact they are not stand alone is almost meaningless.
I'm not a fan of the Northern Blues setup and also want a standalone team but to me the greatest problem is Luke Webster who I dont think is up to developing AFL players....
Losing Meese Marcon and Lambert didn't help the NB's competitiveness.
Makes almost screw all difference. You're using the Box Hill Hawks as an example and yet we are copying their model.
Our seconds are ordinary because the list isn't strong, deep or healthy.
We lost our best three players from the NB's.
Just need to make that association strong. The fact they are not stand alone is almost meaningless.
Spot on cimm, Box Hill is proof that the type of agreement we have can be made to work. If we go a stand alone team I wouldn't mind, but I don't see it as necessary or holding us back at all. We just have to find the right way to make it work for us.
Recruit some bigger midfielders for a start, the NB's have 16 players on their list @ 180cm or under. Now when you are playing games against AFL listed players, surly it has to help if they are at least a similar size to their opponents !!
If you are not paying decent money or offering a pathway to the AFL you wont attract decent VFL talent to the Northern Blues......Lambert had a really great season before he left and probably should have been rookied and we also had the chance to take Saad but bypassed him as well.....why if you are not being paid decent coin would you play for a team where you are going nowhere....
Not having a huge amount of knowledge about the VFL system...
1. Do we get any concessions or priority access drafting a player from an affiliate club?
2. I dont get the difference between a "Carlton" team in the VFL, and the way the NB affiliation works.
Box Hill Hawks are living proof that you don't need a stand alone VFL team to be successful.
The key is resourcing the VFL team, employing the best coach and ensuring that the development coaches work with the entire squad, not just the AFL listed players.
Box Hill?
Makes almost screw all difference. You're using the Box Hill Hawks as an example and yet we are copying their model.
Our seconds are ordinary because the list isn't strong, deep or healthy.
We lost our best three players from the NB's.
Just need to make that association strong. The fact they are not stand alone is almost meaningless.
Spot on cimm, Box Hill is proof that the type of agreement we have can be made to work. If we go a stand alone team I wouldn't mind, but I don't see it as necessary or holding us back at all. We just have to find the right way to make it work for us.
Recruit some bigger midfielders for a start, the NB's have 16 players on their list @ 180cm or under. Now when you are playing games against AFL listed players, surly it has to help if they are at least a similar size to their opponents !!
Dawks/Box Hill had all kinds of headaches re games players had at seconds level to play seconds finals... there are other headaches. None of this is an issue when you have a stand-alone.
@Baggers
Are you talking about the recent Mcevoy story?
If so, the same rules still apply at stand alone clubs vs affiliates.
You havent played enough games, you cant play.
@Baggers
Are you talking about the recent Mcevoy story?
If so, the same rules still apply at stand alone clubs vs affiliates.
You havent played enough games, you cant play.
Yep, this is a rule that is employed at all levels of football, both senior and junior, from the AFL/VFL right down to Division 4 in the EFL.
You can't just pick a bunch of senior level guns (any level guns) in the seconds just to ensure the seconds get a cheap Premiership.
It's actually a rule in most team sports if you look at it. Certainly is in cricket, and soccer, and I'm sure plenty of others.
I'm not a fan of the Northern Blues setup and also want a standalone team but to me the greatest problem is Luke Webster who I dont think is up to developing AFL players....
You won't get any argument from me!
Blokes go back to the 2s, then go backwards even further there, I think Webster has turned into a disaster as far as development goes! The only guys we have that go back to the 2s and do OK are McLean and Graham and they look self motivated.
I suspect our club was thinking when LFA and UFA come in we were going to do the old Carlton and just open the doors letting the AFLs best walk in, because they wanted to play at Carlton, but it won't and didn't happen. In the process we neglected player development or at least failed to take it seriously. Our clubs only solution to problems is money, effort isn't seriously considered!
Box Hill Hawks are just Hawthorn with two extra words in their name......
You only have to compare facilities at Box Hill vs Cramer St to realise there is no comparison between Box Hill Hawks and Northern Blues.
When Carlton players go back to the NBs, it is like being sent to Siberia, and they play like it.....
I'm not a fan of the Northern Blues setup and also want a standalone team but to me the greatest problem is Luke Webster who I dont think is up to developing AFL players....
You won't get any argument from me!
Blokes go back to the 2s, then go backwards even further there, I think Webster has turned into a disaster as far as development goes! The only guys we have that go back to the 2s and do OK are McLean and Graham and they look self motivated.
I suspect our club was thinking when LFA and UFA come in we were going to do the old Carlton and just open the doors letting the AFLs best walk in, because they wanted to play at Carlton, but it won't and didn't happen. In the process we neglected player development or at least failed to take it seriously. Our clubs only solution to problems is money, effort isn't seriously considered!
And just being generally effin' smarter! We seem to be just bogged down in an unimaginative, unwieldy, unresponsive and moribund corporate culture. You know, the latter of the three classic types
1. Those who make things happen
2. Those who watch things happen
3. Those who wonder what happened.
Box Hill Hawks are just Hawthorn with two extra words in their name......
You only have to compare facilities at Box Hill vs Cramer St to realise there is no comparison between Box Hill Hawks and Northern Blues.
When Carlton players go back to the NBs, it is like being sent to Siberia, and they play like it.....
I wish I could say that you are wrong, but you are not even close to being wrong.
We have 2 choices, neither of which is cheap, but both of which are doable.
[1] Stand Alone Carlton VFL.
[2] A highly integrated VFL affiliate like Box Hill is to Hawthorn or Sandringham was to Melbourne a few years back.
We have to choose one, as our present model is not working optimally.
Alternative #1: Stand Alone Carlton VFL
In many ways it is desirable. There would be a minimum of administrative issues as we would be all one club. We could select our VFL squad carefully and get a number of possible future Blues and some experienced played with (preferably) a Carlton background. It would be a good retirement gig for some good players with the right attitude and a reward, in some ways, for guys who might be good leaders or clubmen but who can't quite make it or are having their bodies being unreliable.
We have a positive relationship with the coaching staff and the other staff, as we are all the same club.
It will cost significantly more money. It would also probably kill Preston, as I doubt they could survive on their own at the moment. It would also ruin the raisson d'etre of the 'Northern Blues', as we would not be the only serious presence in the Northern suburbs any longer.
Alternative #2: Close Alignment with Preston
Preston have shown they cannot provide the players, as they still do not have the resources to attract top quality recruits. They have an excellent relationship with the Northern Knights, one that is worth keeping. However, the pathway needs to be clearer: players who play for NB could be future Carlton players. This simply is not the case yet. It must be for the alignment to work optimally.
We need the coaching panel to reflect our interests. Basically, we need to take over Preston like Hawthorn have done with Box Hill.
Alternative #1 is probably the best, but it takes a commitment we haven't been able to do so far.
Box Hill Hawks are just Hawthorn with two extra words in their name......
You only have to compare facilities at Box Hill vs Cramer St to realise there is no comparison between Box Hill Hawks and Northern Blues.
When Carlton players go back to the NBs, it is like being sent to Siberia, and they play like it.....
So make it stronger.
Box Hill Hawks are just Hawthorn with two extra words in their name......
You only have to compare facilities at Box Hill vs Cramer St to realise there is no comparison between Box Hill Hawks and Northern Blues.
When Carlton players go back to the NBs, it is like being sent to Siberia, and they play like it.....
I wish I could say that you are wrong, but you are not even close to being wrong.
We have 2 choices, neither of which is cheap, but both of which are doable.
[1] Stand Alone Carlton VFL.
[2] A highly integrated VFL affiliate like Box Hill is to Hawthorn or Sandringham was to Melbourne a few years back.
We have to choose one, as our present model is not working optimally.
Alternative #1: Stand Alone Carlton VFL
In many ways it is desirable. There would be a minimum of administrative issues as we would be all one club. We could select our VFL squad carefully and get a number of possible future Blues and some experienced played with (preferably) a Carlton background. It would be a good retirement gig for some good players with the right attitude and a reward, in some ways, for guys who might be good leaders or clubmen but who can't quite make it or are having their bodies being unreliable.
We have a positive relationship with the coaching staff and the other staff, as we are all the same club.
It will cost significantly more money. It would also probably kill Preston, as I doubt they could survive on their own at the moment. It would also ruin the raisson d'etre of the 'Northern Blues', as we would not be the only serious presence in the Northern suburbs any longer.
Alternative #2: Close Alignment with Preston
Preston have shown they cannot provide the players, as they still do not have the resources to attract top quality recruits. They have an excellent relationship with the Northern Knights, one that is worth keeping. However, the pathway needs to be clearer: players who play for NB could be future Carlton players. This simply is not the case yet. It must be for the alignment to work optimally.
We need the coaching panel to reflect our interests. Basically, we need to take over Preston like Hawthorn have done with Box Hill.
Alternative #1 is probably the best, but it takes a commitment we haven't been able to do so far.
Nicely thought through, Captain Crash.
Fill her up on Alt 1 please. :)