Hey guys!! So I haven't been on this forum for a long time now, and I apologise if a thread of a similar sort has already been started.
After watching only one game (round 1) and being 3 rounds in I am claiming that I am "over" footy. Now I love the blue boys through and through. When they came to my hometown I stalked them haha for two days and got as many signatures and photos as I could. I love the club and an proud of its history. I bleed Navy!
So, I was wondering if there had been a general concensus as to what the heck is going on!? The first quarter of round 1 was a different Carlton. They were tackling aggressively, running through the corridor, reading the play excellently. Then the old Carlton reared its ugly head for the rest of the match. So, Is it the list? Do I just have my navy blue lenses on and think that my team is capable of achieving more when in reality they can't? Is it the coaching staff? Pls explain.
We should start looking on what is right and what can be fixed internally, then we should start thinking about what is wrong and what needs external action to repair the problem
Hey guys!! So I haven't been on this forum for a long time now, and I apologise if a thread of a similar sort has already been started.
After watching only one game (round 1) and being 3 rounds in I am claiming that I am "over" footy. Now I love the blue boys through and through. When they came to my hometown I stalked them haha for two days and got as many signatures and photos as I could. I love the club and an proud of its history. I bleed Navy!
So, I was wondering if there had been a general concensus as to what the heck is going on!? The first quarter of round 1 was a different Carlton. They were tackling aggressively, running through the corridor, reading the play excellently. Then the old Carlton reared its ugly head for the rest of the match. So, Is it the list? Do I just have my navy blue lenses on and think that my team is capable of achieving more when in reality they can't? Is it the coaching staff? Pls explain.
Haven't you heard? The coach is shight! :P
The board is factionalised. Whoever manages to get the numbers brings in their cronies/favourites and bad-mouths the previous lot. They rule by threat/promise of donations withheld/made and have no idea what it takes to make a football club competitive in the 21st century.
Coaching appointments have been botched, drafting and trading is average, free agency has been handled badly, player development is inadequate, list management is poor, succession planning is ignored, members are overcharged and not engaged, the relationship with the Northern Blues is flawed and there isn't a tangible and achievable vision for the future.
In fact, one could say that no-one at the club really knows what success looks like.
Despite all of that, I don't think we're too far off the pace. Some good decisions and we could be on the improve.
Just wondering, many reckon the new Prez and a CEO (present company not yet convinced) get a tick each and we are on the right track. Next down the tree is McKay. Do people think there is heat on him? Has he done a good job to date? Thoughts? Can we do better?
Just wondering, many reckon the new Prez and a CEO (present company not yet convinced) get a tick each and we are on the right track. Next down the tree is McKay. Do people think there is heat on him? Has he done a good job to date? Thoughts? Can we do better?
Mckay is on the outer, its all about SOS rebuilding the list with Mick..I expect McKay to be moved on....I dont hear or see the new President refer to McKay much at all...
What's wrong with Carlton?
Nothing that a total independent review couldn't identify!
Mckay is on the outer, its all about SOS rebuilding the list with Mick..I expect McKay to be moved on....I dont hear or see the new President refer to McKay much at all...
Not sure about that EB; I don't think Mick will have much to do with it, even if he is retained.
Andy McKay's days are numbered, regardless of how well he has done his job. He was appointed by the other faction.
What's wrong with Carlton?
Nothing that a total independent review couldn't identify!
Ha ha. Where on this earth do we find the people to have a total independent review. Your funny, I tell you that much. Then again something tells me you are not trying to be funny.
What's wrong with Carlton?
Nothing that a total independent review couldn't identify!
The independent review would find the previous administration was incompetent and looking for quick fixes. The measures the board have put in place will give Carlton 5 premierships in a row if we're patient :))
Ha ha. Where on this earth do we find the people to have a total independent review. Your funny, I tell you that much. Then again something tells me you are not trying to be funny.
I'll tell you where you don't get them from......
Carlton.
The thing is it won't happen because no-one in power will submit themselves to that process.
The first thing a review would tell them would be to resign, because while they're all still there the circular power struggles will continue.
Mckay is on the outer, its all about SOS rebuilding the list with Mick..I expect McKay to be moved on....I dont hear or see the new President refer to McKay much at all...
Not sure about that at all, on the radio The Judge seemed pretty resolute in his support of SOS and McKay. The Judge really drop kicked the recruiters and player development though, straight out said it hadn't been good enough!
I think we will see a big restructure at the support levels, some of those 2ICs might be looking for a job!
I know we would both love to see one in particular get the kibosh!
Mckay is on the outer, its all about SOS rebuilding the list with Mick..I expect McKay to be moved on....I dont hear or see the new President refer to McKay much at all...
I reckon they will use McKay as a straight out administrator and have him less involved in day to day function within departments. That's how it should be.
You know the type, makes sure all the boxes are ticked and paperwork done but the people in the roles will be responsible for their roles.
Not like when Swan was there and it looked like every man and his dog had a finger in pies that shouldn't concern them.
Put people you believe in, in the roles , give them the resources, trust them to do the job. Then, if they don't work out you can get someone else.
Again, I heard some Hawks administrator saying this is how they operate.
Makes perfect sense.
I'm particularly keen to see what we do about player development including coaching staff and the NBs. This is a vital area as we seemed to have squandered so many draftees in the past, although we've done OK with some of the rookie picks and Irish guys.
@EB1
I don't think Mick will have any direct involvement in rebuilding the list. That is primarily SOS's area although the senior coach will obviously provide some input to him.
Mick stated pretty clearly that he is focused on the NOW and is primarily concerned with trying to put the best available team out each week. That is one of the reasons why our player development is so important in bringing through new young talent for senior selection, even if we do change our senior coach.
our recruitment over the years has totally stuffed the place.WE have to get this years draft correct and last years well 21 yr old who hasnt played yet better pay of or else we will get mauled by media
our recruitment over the years has totally stuffed the place.WE have to get this years draft correct and last years well 21 yr old who hasnt played yet better pay of or else we will get mauled by media
Maybe thats why Mick wont play him....if he fails in his first couple of games then Mick will get a another bake....
Maybe Mick won't play him because he isn't ready?
Why doesn't Mick play Buckley? Buckley is 6 months older than Boekhorst but has only played 9 senior matches.
We have 2 rookies who are older than Boekhorst who haven't played a game yet. Why don't we play them if age is all that matters?
Maybe Mick won't play him because he isn't ready?
Why doesn't Mick play Buckley? Buckley is 6 months older than Boekhorst but has only played 9 senior matches.
We have 2 rookies who are older than Boekhorst who haven't played a game yet. Why don't we play them if age is all that matters?
Mick said he is too light and not consistent enough....maybe he should have weighed him before Rodgers called out his name.
Buckley cant get a kick in the NB's...yet Mick has him in line for a game ahead of Boekhorst along with V. Rainbow....both have done nothing in the NB,s this season.
Yet Mick says he wont just give games to youth for the sake of being seen to rebuild.....
I dont know a coach who changes his logic daily and sends so many confusing messages to supporters/media like MM...maybe thats how he coaches on match day....
We all know the plan was to recruit 21-24 year olds so we could get some young experienced players onto the list who could play straight away and cut some development corners..Boekhorst recruiting was part of that plan being a WAFL player with a few seasons under his belt.
He hasnt set the world on fire preseason and everyone with half a brain knows he is struggling with the physical aspects of the AFL game and his light frame is an issue...
Clem Smith was preferred to him...if Smith was/is more ready that Boekhorst then I know why Mick is hiding him in the NB's... :(
Mick said he is too light and not consistent enough....maybe he should have weighed him before Rodgers called out his name.
Buckley cant get a kick in the NB's...yet Mick has him in line for a game ahead of Boekhorst along with V. Rainbow....both have done nothing in the NB,s this season.
Yet Mick says he wont just give games to youth for the sake of being seen to rebuild.....
I dont know a coach who changes his logic daily and sends so many confusing messages to supporters/media like MM...maybe thats how he coaches on match day....
Is there some part of that that you can't understand.
We NEED to pick someone to come in to cover Yarran.
He is not going to pick a kid for the sake of picking a kid.
He does have to pick someone though.
Boeky is not ready, so that means he has to look elsewhere. Buckley and Rainbow are more ready by comparison.....as is Dick and Tutt which were all mentioned in the same breath.
Given that someone does actually need to come into the side in Yarrans absence...who do you want to come in?
Is there some part of that that you can't understand.
We NEED to pick someone to come in to cover Yarran.
He is not going to pick a kid for the sake of picking a kid.
He does have to pick someone though.
Boeky is not ready, so that means he has to look elsewhere. Buckley and Rainbow are more ready by comparison.....as is Dick and Tutt which were all mentioned in the same breath.
Given that someone does actually need to come into the side in Yarrans absence...who do you want to come in?
Byrne to the half back flank...BB as sub....too easy...
The others cant get a kick in the NB's how can they be ready?..Micks idea of ready was Smith in rnd 1 and 2...go figure ::)
Byrne to the half back flank...BB as sub....too easy...
The others cant get a kick in the NB's how can they be ready?..Micks idea of ready was Smith in rnd 1 and 2...go figure ::)
If we go on form, Whiley into the midfield and Carrazzo to the HBF.
Jaksch in for Jamison, Boekhorst in for Ellard.
Byrne to the half back flank...BB as sub....too easy...
The others cant get a kick in the NB's how can they be ready?..Micks idea of ready was Smith in rnd 1 and 2...go figure ::)
So you want to play a kid who is deemed not ready and that is your solution?
Why are others who can't get a kick deemed ready??
Maybe because....
a) They are physically more mature.
b) They are mentally more mature.
c) They are not lacking in confidence in their own abilities.
d) A combination of any or all of the above
There are a million reasons why a player is deemed not ready, and why a player IS deemed ready.
Rather than acknowledge that is even a possibility, you'd prefer to say its a personal prejudice that Mick has setup to save his own bacon.
FMD you guys need to run your theories past someone before you post them for all to see.
So you want to play a kid who is deemed not ready and that is your solution?
Why are others who can't get a kick deemed ready??
Maybe because....
a) They are physically more mature.
b) They are mentally more mature.
c) They are not lacking in confidence in their own abilities.
d) A combination of any or all of the above
There are a million reasons why a player is deemed not ready, and why a player IS deemed ready.
Rather than acknowledge that is even a possibility, you'd prefer to say its a personal prejudice that Mick has setup to save his own bacon.
FMD you guys need to run your theories past someone before you post them for all to see.
Smith is around the same weight as BB has less WAFL games and is younger...yet he gets two games based on what...mentally more mature...
Well that showed in rounds 1 and 2 didnt it...
V Rainbow has one game of VFL footy to his name and a couple of practice games..isnt that big either and has done nothing to earn a game.
Boekhorst doesnt appear to lack confidence...his ex coach Greg Harding said he is ready to go...it appears your man Mick is the only one who cant see
what is obvious to most...or maybe he can..
FMD you guys need to run your theories past someone before you post them for all to see.....that someone being you??? ;D ;D ;D
You dont approve of posters having opinions on a forum for opinion..???....
Smith is the same weight, but 3 inches shorter.
Physically he is more ready for the bash and crash of AFL football. That is clear for everyone to see. That is why he got games early. He wouldn't get hurt.
Boeky is an outside runner who requires others to get him his football. Rainbow can get his own ball.
Look, i'm all for giving Boeky a run this week, but if anyone knows if he is ready, its the senior coach.
As mentioned above, maybe its just a mental/confidence thing.
Clarko was talking about coaching, specifically, with the benfit of hindsight and the information you had on hand at the time. Would you have done anything differently. He talked about Zac Dawson being left on Rocca early in his career. Rocca flogged him, ragdolled him and kicked plenty on him. Clarko and co thought they'd keep him on him as it would be good for his development. In hindsight, that shattered his confidence and Clarko admitted it was the wrong thing to do. Playing him too early, and putting him in a position he wasn't ready for set him back weeks.
But nah, Mick is only looking after his own interests and not that of the kid. Get a clue!
factions dont give a fk about the welfare of the football club
ultimately, its driven by greed and competitiveness to undo and undermine
each other for the purpose of their own victory.
The club is just a host for these fleas
Smith is the same weight, but 3 inches shorter.
Physically he is more ready for the bash and crash of AFL football. That is clear for everyone to see. That is why he got games early. He wouldn't get hurt.
Boeky is an outside runner who requires others to get him his football. Rainbow can get his own ball.
Look, i'm all for giving Boeky a run this week, but if anyone knows if he is ready, its the senior coach.
As mentioned above, maybe its just a mental/confidence thing.
Clarko was talking about coaching, specifically, with the benfit of hindsight and the information you had on hand at the time. Would you have done anything differently. He talked about Zac Dawson being left on Rocca early in his career. Rocca flogged him, ragdolled him and kicked plenty on him. Clarko and co thought they'd keep him on him as it would be good for his development. In hindsight, that shattered his confidence and Clarko admitted it was the wrong thing to do. Playing him too early, and putting him in a position he wasn't ready for set him back weeks.
But nah, Mick is only looking after his own interests and not that of the kid. Get a clue!
What about Watson and Graham?
What about Watson and Graham?
Did these two rip it up in the 2's?
Smith is the same weight, but 3 inches shorter.
Physically he is more ready for the bash and crash of AFL football. That is clear for everyone to see. That is why he got games early. He wouldn't get hurt.
Boeky is an outside runner who requires others to get him his football. Rainbow can get his own ball.
Look, i'm all for giving Boeky a run this week, but if anyone knows if he is ready, its the senior coach.
As mentioned above, maybe its just a mental/confidence thing.
Clarko was talking about coaching, specifically, with the benfit of hindsight and the information you had on hand at the time. Would you have done anything differently. He talked about Zac Dawson being left on Rocca early in his career. Rocca flogged him, ragdolled him and kicked plenty on him. Clarko and co thought they'd keep him on him as it would be good for his development. In hindsight, that shattered his confidence and Clarko admitted it was the wrong thing to do. Playing him too early, and putting him in a position he wasn't ready for set him back weeks.
But nah, Mick is only looking after his own interests and not that of the kid. Get a clue!
Get a clue?...thats choice coming from someone who defended Hughes and Rodgers who were one of the main reasons the club is in the mess it is in now.....
You want to run my theories by someone else and then tell me to get a clue after you supported Hughes and Rodgers???...get some runs on the board and credibility would be my response.
You are 2 for 0 at the moment and when Malthouse gets the boot you will be 3-0.....you have my permission to run that by someone else too....
Our problem is that we've never junked the idea that you can buy a flag with a cheque book.
When we were in the pits 10 years ago we threw a bucket of money at Pagan, when that didn't work and membership was hitting the skids we hired a Carlton legend to "bring back the Carlton swagger" and pump up membership and sponsor numbers, when that didn't work we threw a bucket of money at Malthouse.
At no time since 1995 has anyone at the club embraced the realities of the draft and salary cap and adapted the club to the modern era of building premierships from the ground up, so here we are today.
Did these two rip it up in the 2's?
The Sydney weather is going to be over Wellington on Saturday afternoon, you don't want to be too tall!
It is really starting to look a case of everyone in every role, was not in a position to lead the club forward for way too long a period.
Prez/CEO, head coach, assistant coaches, recruiting agents, Bullants coach, list manager, fitness/strength coach etc. Lack of true skills coaches.
Picked up players with picks that could have had us better options. Poor developing of young kids. Playing players in a role that doesn't suit them. No real effective game plan A and B. Choosing players in a side that are not always the best mix. Playing players that are clearly not fit to play. Playing players that are injured or close to breaking point. Bringing in experienced players that could have been a better selection. Captain selection or leadership group that doesn't always reflect the best leaders. Poorly managed the entire list. Losing players for no compensation. Failed to trade player to the best result of this clubs future.
We have managed to screw everything up on every level. This is why we are in as much trouble as we are at the moment. I sometimes wonder if Judd wishes Hawthorn was his first choice to come back to Victoria. He would have had 2 more premiership medals, with maybe one more to go. This is why the way back up the ladder will be a long climb for this club. We have some fixes in place. Are they the best fixes at the moment ? Time will tell. We haven't fixed every level just yet. We haven't brought in the best mix of players yet.
I can't see us fixing the players mix for 2 to 3 seasons. We need to consider players in the future that give us an instant experienced body on the park. Bernie Vince, Lamumba types for not an expensive price. There have been many players on the move, and a clever side will top up with an experienced player every season. Not a 30 year old. A 26-27 year old that still has a few seasons left in their legs. A more than decent player to help mentor the young kids. We need to develop the young list. Grow our own stock. Get the best coach without a current deal, and have them coach the NB's. NOW. Not next season. Get someone now. This is where you grow your future stock. Get the best person in charge of recruiting NOW. Then decide what we do with Mick after this season. Give him a chance to do something with what he has got. I'm not sure if the head of this fish is fixed just yet. Might need a few changes there also. Then again it might be O.K now. Again time will tell.
Get a clue?...thats choice coming from someone who defended Hughes and Rodgers who were one of the main reasons the club is in the mess it is in now.....
You want to run my theories by someone else and then tell me to get a clue after you supported Hughes and Rodgers???...get some runs on the board and credibility would be my response.
You are 2 for 0 at the moment and when Malthouse gets the boot you will be 3-0.....you have my permission to run that by someone else too....
Get a clue.
Did i defend Hughes and Rogers or did i suggest there was bigger problems in the club....DEVELOPMENT.
Do i defend Mick or do i suggest there are bigger problems elsewhere.
Read what i wrote the other day. I'm not trying to get Malthouses contract extended. I'm just defending him from people who make up crap to try and force him out the door.
Hey guys!! So I haven't been on this forum for a long time now, and I apologise if a thread of a similar sort has already been started.
After watching only one game (round 1) and being 3 rounds in I am claiming that I am "over" footy. Now I love the blue boys through and through. When they came to my hometown I stalked them haha for two days and got as many signatures and photos as I could. I love the club and an proud of its history. I bleed Navy!
So, I was wondering if there had been a general concensus as to what the heck is going on!? The first quarter of round 1 was a different Carlton. They were tackling aggressively, running through the corridor, reading the play excellently. Then the old Carlton reared its ugly head for the rest of the match. So, Is it the list? Do I just have my navy blue lenses on and think that my team is capable of achieving more when in reality they can't? Is it the coaching staff? Pls explain.
Things that are wrong...poor attitude, poor workrate, poor on-field culture and an unsuitable game plan. That's alot worse than a so-called poor list. With those problems the best list will look like a poor list. Get those right and the list will look alot better than what it is.
@ laj
I say get the attitude, work rate and onfield culture right and the rest will take care of it self (game plan and list).
Touching back on the "whats wrong with Carlton" issues, lets have a look at the lessons we are not learning.
This helps to bring some of our more modern methodology surrounding list management in perspective. It appears that we have had very relaxed standards at our club for far too long, and after looking at an article where Judd led the way with Cripps, I thought to myself, where else has this bloke assisted to "set the tone".
I stumbled across this article, and I wonder just how little we have learned during our time with the great man at the place.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/carlton-players-vow-to-improve-off-field-behaviour/story-e6frf3e3-1225917479492
In accepting responsibility for the drunken stupidity that arose from an end-of-year booze cruise, Judd pledged that the players would become better role models.
"The leadership group takes extra responsibility for what happened. We are entrusted by the club to ensure appropriate levels of behaviour are maintained, and we put our hands up today to say we fell seriously short of that and give our word that it won't happen again," Judd said on Monday.
"It is impossible for players to talk their way out of a situation like this. You really have to behave your way out of it."
"Unfortunately with that, comes time, and all I can offer is words today, but we will be looking to behave our way out of the predicament we find ourselves in," Judd said.
5 years on, and it appears that the last lot never really got a handle on this.
... and this sort of thing comes down to leadership.
You need hard at it players who are your leaders, players that tick every box and do everything right.
Looking back at all the recent clubs who were successful over many years they have talent, but they have discipline that is run by the strong leaders of the club.
Brisbane, Sydney, Geelong, Hawthorn all have strong leaders who are also in their best 5 players.
Freo now have their strong leaders with Fyfe and their giant midfield leading by example.
Watch out for GWS (fish in a barrel) and Melbourne over the next 5 years. Viney, Brayshaw and Hogan, all hard young men, all will be Melbourne's best players within the next 2-5 years.
We have Cripps, which is a start but with this draft we need to find a Hodge, Selwood, Voss type midfielder, who doesn't just have talent but has that hard edge about them. Then it's these players who need to drive the culture, combined with a young new coach, 2-3 good draft years where we keep the picks and get them right. We don't need triers like Rowe or talent but no hardness like Gibbs and Murphy in our leadership group. We need steel, toughness and talent.
Good post Raydan.
Draft hard kids and get players with talent via FA. Players that have real ability. Don't trade for players using our picks. Don't find Tutt, Jones and Dick types. Find players that show they are genuine.
Nothing relevant to the thread but why is "Don't go Juddy's" rating "a guest"? Just that I've never seen this before.
It was Gointocarlton when he couldn't log in JK.
It was Gointocarlton when he couldn't log in JK.
Thanks Carrots. ;)
... and this sort of thing comes down to leadership.
You need hard at it players who are your leaders, players that tick every box and do everything right.
Looking back at all the recent clubs who were successful over many years they have talent, but they have discipline that is run by the strong leaders of the club.
Brisbane, Sydney, Geelong, Hawthorn all have strong leaders who are also in their best 5 players.
Freo now have their strong leaders with Fyfe and their giant midfield leading by example.
Watch out for GWS (fish in a barrel) and Melbourne over the next 5 years. Viney, Brayshaw and Hogan, all hard young men, all will be Melbourne's best players within the next 2-5 years.
We have Cripps, which is a start but with this draft we need to find a Hodge, Selwood, Voss type midfielder, who doesn't just have talent but has that hard edge about them. Then it's these players who need to drive the culture, combined with a young new coach, 2-3 good draft years where we keep the picks and get them right. We don't need triers like Rowe or talent but no hardness like Gibbs and Murphy in our leadership group. We need steel, toughness and talent.
Been saying it for years we are too soft on the field, and our leaders are too soft....Hodge, Selwood etc are one every ten year type players who combine talent with hardness and resolve, this draft isnt very deep either so we might have to wait a while until we can get a new set of leaders..or do we import them in like we did with Judd...?
Cripps will be one for sure and probably the next captain but there isnt much left on the list to work with but I like Brad Walsh and reckon he will be a leader if and when
he makes the senior list..