What does our club stand for?
A simple question with a far from simple answer.
I think the club has lost its identity over the past 15 years. We can look far and wide to find our identity, but perhaps the answer is closer than we think.
So close in fact, that each and every player, coach and supporter is wearing the answer more often than not - Our clubs motto.
Mens sana in corpore sano
Usually translated to - 'A sound mind in a sound body'
I did a quick bit of research and came across its original use. Click here for more info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_sana_in_corpore_sano)
It is from a series of poems that were written about 1900 years ago. Our motto is from the 10th poem.
Now i'm not one to go off reading poems but in this instance, I recommend this be force fed to our players, coaches, staff and board. It is very enlightening given our current circumstance. The English translation is below.
Satire X: Wrong Desire is the Source of Suffering
It is to be prayed that the mind be sound in a sound body.
Ask for a brave soul that lacks the fear of death,
which places the length of life last among nature’s blessings,
which is able to bear whatever kind of sufferings,
does not know anger, lusts for nothing and believes
the hardships and savage labors of Hercules better than
the satisfactions, feasts, and feather bed of an Eastern king.
I will reveal what you are able to give yourself;
For certain, the one footpath of a tranquil life lies through virtue.
People can work through that themselves, but to me that title is very apt and the take home point for me is as follows.
People who want for the wrong things are destined to suffer.
Whereas people who work hard and give all of themselves will be rewarded.
Is it too much to ask for that we live up to our own motto?
Another translation of the same poem.
You should pray for a healthy mind in a healthy body.
Ask for a stout heart that has no fear of death,
and deems length of days the least of Nature's gifts
that can endure any kind of toil,
that knows neither wrath nor desire and thinks
the woes and hard labors of Hercules better than
the loves and banquets and downy cushions of Sardanapalus.
What I commend to you, you can give to yourself;
For assuredly, the only road to a life of peace is virtue.
Our players can't understand what you have posted, yet alone execute the actions needed. Keep it simple for them. "Grow a pair of balls you pussies, or feck off out of this club". "You do not deserve to wear the navy emblem". Go put your skirts back on and take up a non contact sport like netball.
We know you don't have it between the legs, and you don't have it between your ears either. No ticker, and no pride in yourselves. Go walk through a factory without air conditioning and see how some of your supporters earn a living. Cold in the winter, hot in the summer, under asbestos roof, on bare concrete and working like a dog for $20 per hour. Then after the tax man has ripped them off, they use the remaining few hundred dollars to pay membership to the club. Added to what it costs to come and watch you dish out pathetic attempts to look like professional AFL football players. Hand them back one and a half months of your wage which equates to what they earn in an entire year.
Then try to explain why your job as football players is so difficult. How many hours a week do you spend preparing for a game, and playing a match ? How many dollars per hour are you pathetic weak people earning to be the worst club in the league (or close to the worst) ? How do you justify your actions on the field to us supporters. How do you justify your earnings ?
Tell me you have a vague idea about "Mens sana in corpore sano".
How so many men before you have brought 16 flags home. How you will never, ever see one in your time. How did they approach their football attitudes comparing to you. While earning so much less ?
PLEASE EXPLAIN, Carlton football club, from ever level, top to bottom. Every coach, official, board member, plare etc. Why, why, fecking why ? >:(
Our players can't understand what you have posted, yet alone execute the actions needed. Keep it simple for them. "Grow a pair of balls you pussies, or feck off out of this club". "You do not deserve to wear the navy emblem". Go put your skirts back on and take up a non contact sport like netball.
We know you don't have it between the legs, and you don't have it between your ears either. No ticker, and no pride in yourselves. Go walk through a factory without air conditioning and see how some of your supporters earn a living. Cold in the winter, hot in the summer, under asbestos roof, on bare concrete and working like a dog for $20 per hour. Then after the tax man has ripped them off, they use the remaining few hundred dollars to pay membership to the club. Added to what it costs to come and watch you dish out pathetic attempts to look like professional AFL football players. Hand them back one and a half months of your wage which equates to what they earn in an entire year.
Then try to explain why your job as football players is so difficult. How many hours a week do you spend preparing for a game, and playing a match ? How many dollars per hour are you pathetic weak people earning to be the worst club in the league (or close to the worst) ? How do you justify your actions on the field to us supporters. How do you justify your earnings ?
Tell me you have a vague idea about "Mens sana in corpore sano".
How so many men before you have brought 16 flags home. How you will never, ever see one in your time. How did they approach their football attitudes comparing to you. While earning so much less ?
PLEASE EXPLAIN, Carlton football club, from ever level, top to bottom. Every coach, official, board member, plare etc. Why, why, fecking why ? >:(
I think you should cut loose and not hold back so much.
Our players can't understand what you have posted, yet alone execute the actions needed. Keep it simple for them. "Grow a pair of balls you pussies, or feck off out of this club". "You do not deserve to wear the navy emblem". Go put your skirts back on and take up a non contact sport like netball.
We know you don't have it between the legs, and you don't have it between your ears either. No ticker, and no pride in yourselves. Go walk through a factory without air conditioning and see how some of your supporters earn a living. Cold in the winter, hot in the summer, under asbestos roof, on bare concrete and working like a dog for $20 per hour. Then after the tax man has ripped them off, they use the remaining few hundred dollars to pay membership to the club. Added to what it costs to come and watch you dish out pathetic attempts to look like professional AFL football players. Hand them back one and a half months of your wage which equates to what they earn in an entire year.
Then try to explain why your job as football players is so difficult. How many hours a week do you spend preparing for a game, and playing a match ? How many dollars per hour are you pathetic weak people earning to be the worst club in the league (or close to the worst) ? How do you justify your actions on the field to us supporters. How do you justify your earnings ?
Tell me you have a vague idea about "Mens sana in corpore sano".
How so many men before you have brought 16 flags home. How you will never, ever see one in your time. How did they approach their football attitudes comparing to you. While earning so much less ?
PLEASE EXPLAIN, Carlton football club, from ever level, top to bottom. Every coach, official, board member, plare etc. Why, why, fecking why ? >:(
Amen >:(
I think you will find that 'a healthy mind in a healthy body' or 'a sound mind in a healthy body' goes back well beyond Juvenal's Satires. The Greek philosopher Thales of Miletus, who lived around 600 years BCE is the likely originator of the saying.
While there's nothing wrong with 'a sound mind in a healthy body', it doesn't really provide any inspiration or motivation, something that's sadly lacking with our club.
I half heard Buckley on the news tonight and my ears pricked when he said something like, "This will test our side by side." Clearly, Collingwood use what is a very good line in their club song to reinforce behaviours and I would love to see our blokes sticking together.
That got me thinking of our club song and the line "We're the team that never lets you down." sprang to mind. They have certainly let us, their coaches and themselves down far too often over the last 15 years. Rather than investing in a new slogan each season, why not make the team focus 'never letting us down'?
However, whether it's 'never letting us down', 'a sound mind in a healthy body' or 'side by side', it is the behaviours that are more important than the words. Behaviours that should include earning and maintaining the respect of team mates and opponents, ensuring that opponents know they've been playing the Navy Blues, making life a misery for taggers, busting a gut to get the job done, never taking a backwards step, being proud of the jumper and its legacy, getting the most out of natural abilities, working diligently to improve skills, etc, etc.
At the moment CFC stands for "Can't F___ing Compete". :P
Heard Sellers Maclure talk about what our club stands for on 360 last night. He said if you wanted to play along side Wayne Johnson in our forward line you knew what you had to bring and if you couldn't deliver then the leadership group would toss you to the kerb. Ignited moments of pride in our club that have been lacking for too long.
We need a very simple and basic indoctrination (written everywhere and shouted together), all for one and one for all. It's not complicated and it is a proven winner over many, many years. It was our motto on one of the war ships I served on in the 70s and once ingrained you found yourself looking out for your mates and knowing that they were 'covering your back'. A few blokes let the crew down and let's just say that after being dealt with, they never did it again (OH&S HR would have not been happy with us!!!).
Heard Sellers Maclure talk about what our club stands for on 360 last night. He said if you wanted to play along side Wayne Johnson in our forward line you knew what you had to bring and if you couldn't deliver then the leadership group would toss you to the kerb. Ignited moments of pride in our club that have been lacking for too long.
We once were what Hawthorn are now.
We used to be about playing finals and winning premierships. We made the decision we needed to change but never really embraced it thereby ending up floating around somewhere inbetween where we were and where we need to be. We're a club with no identity. Nothing optimised this more than reverting to the old jumper.
What do we stand for? Doubt anyone really knows. Sad thing is you can see it through out the club - even on the field.
We once were what Hawthorn are now.
Once were Warriors?
Factionalism
Power Struggles
Mediocrity
Individualism
Rebuilding
We need a very simple and basic indoctrination (written everywhere and shouted together), all for one and one for all. It's not complicated and it is a proven winner over many, many years. It was our motto on one of the war ships I served on in the 70s and once ingrained you found yourself looking out for your mates and knowing that they were 'covering your back'. A few blokes let the crew down and let's just say that after being dealt with, they never did it again (OH&S HR would have not been happy with us!!!).
I captained a soccer team once.
I reinforced the message each and every game that once the whistle blows, we only have ourselves to rely on out there. We play for each other, we go in for each other, we run hard for each other, we cover each other's mistakes, and most importantly if you are passing the ball, or clearing the ball you put it in an area where one of your mates can actually do something with it, rather than giving them a hospital pass, under pressure where they have to do something mercurial to achieve anything. Sometimes this can't be helped, but one bad pass, leads to pressure, which leads to another bad pass, and more pressure, and at some point, the turnover will come. So give your teamates a chance.
A coach once told me, if you want to look like a good player, all you have to do, is be the sort of player that makes his teamates look good. The better they all look, the better you will look. Put the ball to their advantage don't give them over hit passes, under hit passes, passes metres out of their reach so they have to change direction to get it, because odds are they will only have one way to go once they get it, putting the defender on their hammer in a position of advantage because he knows where his opponent is likely to go next.
Then apply that to our team.
We frequently have players having to stand under the ball and wait for its arrival because it's moving too slowly.
Our handpasses are not always drilled into someone's chest, but a metres left or right requiring another change in direction.
Forwards are often trying to pick the ball up off their boot laces even on the lead, as the kick falls short.
We have not hit targets all season. It's a fundamental skill we are not getting right. It has more to do with why we are not playing well than anything other thing, and its not new.
Does anyone recall we used to have a thread called "skills and disposal"?
We get that right, we will start playing much better footy.
I want our boys to believe.
I want them to believe that they could be good enough.
I want them to believe that they will go out there and actually compete hard.
I want them to believe that they can win.
I want them to believe, that they could conceivably go out there and win the rest of their games, and win a forking flag.
It's 21 vs 21 with a sub each. A bit of luck and we can win most weeks provided the team plays with the requisite ability to hit targets, and play football for each other.
We have only lost 4 games for the year.
Premiership teams have lost more for the year and still won the flag.
It would take a change of attitude and execution of 180 degrees to achieve it, but we all can agree that 90% of that appears to be in the players minds and our club collectively having given up on season 2015 is not what I want to see from any level of our leadership which is Mark Lo Giudice's first major stuff up as president of our footy club, and Stephen Trigg's too.
The only good thing about it, is that the players now have the ability to play with absolutely no pressure on them. Which should yield better results, but on this occasion is not, which does mean that they care about being written off and might not be happy about it.
This is what I want to see from now on from our playing group.
Heard Sellers Maclure talk about what our club stands for on 360 last night. He said if you wanted to play along side Wayne Johnson in our forward line you knew what you had to bring and if you couldn't deliver then the leadership group would toss you to the kerb. Ignited moments of pride in our club that have been lacking for too long.
...and thats about what we need to start getting into our club and playing list. One reason i've been an advocate of Mick letting players go has been because those players do not fit into the mould you described above.
McLean, Garlett, Robbo, Waite....how many of them would you trust to make the right decision on someones inclusion/exclusion from the team? All capable of performing wonders on their day, but their days are not frequent enough and can be partially attributed to their 'nights' as well.
Yes, back in the Dominator days things were a lot different. You could go out and have some fun. It was allowed. However, now it is not allowed. The team rules were more leniant back in the day, but if you broke them, you knew about it. Same MUST be made true now. TEAM rules are to benefit the team, not the individual. Abide by them, do whats best for your team, and you will live to fight another day. Ignore them at your own peril.
We MUST bring back a culture of work ethic and team unity.
@ Kruddler
The simple difference between the good old days of Sellers and The Dominator is that then the guys were semi-professionals. Now of course they are full-time professional athletes. There's a big difference in the approach with a lot more expectation on players to do all the right things by their employers and customers - in summary they must provide full value and be seen to be doing all the right things. It was very different back then when as long as you pulled a rabbit out of the hat on match day, many other things off field could be forgiven.
@ Kruddler
The simple difference between the good old days of Sellers and The Dominator is that then the guys were semi-professionals. Now of course they are full-time professional athletes. There's a big difference in the approach with a lot more expectation on players to do all the right things by their employers and customers - in summary they must provide full value and be seen to be doing all the right things. It was very different back then when as long as you pulled a rabbit out of the hat on match day, many other things off field could be forgiven.
I don't buy that.
Why can Hawthorn do today what we were able to do then? Are Hawthorn not full time professional athletes? I think they are. ;)
The crux of the problem at our club is we don't know how to achieve success in the modern era. Off-field and on. A cultural change is required to drag us into the modern era in all facets of the game.
In terms of the players, that is something that they can control themselves. They can demand commitment from each other. They set their own team rules (to an extent) and they can enforce them. They can punish themselves should they transgress. If the players are not on board to begin with, what hope do we have?
Team rules can be made, followed and enforced no matter what era you come from. The rules may change, but the meaning behind them remains the same.
I don't buy that.
Why can Hawthorn do today what we were able to do then? Are Hawthorn not full time professional athletes? I think they are. ;)
The crux of the problem at our club is we don't know how to achieve success in the modern era. Off-field and on. A cultural change is required to drag us into the modern era in all facets of the game.
In terms of the players, that is something that they can control themselves. They can demand commitment from each other. They set their own team rules (to an extent) and they can enforce them. They can punish themselves should they transgress. If the players are not on board to begin with, what hope do we have?
Team rules can be made, followed and enforced no matter what era you come from. The rules may change, but the meaning behind them remains the same.
I think you misunderstood. I was saying that WE have failed here, not that others have. I agree that the Hawks are one of the benchmarks of the new era. What I was saying is that people like Sellers repeatedly talking about "his day" is not helpful ant not really all that relevant to our current predicament. We need to be more like the Hawks of today and less like the Blues of old.
I think you misunderstood. I was saying that WE have failed here, not that others have. I agree that the Hawks are one of the benchmarks of the new era. What I was saying is that people like Sellers repeatedly talking about "his day" is not helpful ant not really all that relevant to our current predicament. We need to be more like the Hawks of today and less like the Blues of old.
I think what Sellers says rings true in relative terms.
He said if you wanted to play along side Wayne Johnson in our forward line you knew what you had to bring and if you couldn't deliver then the leadership group would toss you to the kerb
As i said before, i think the key is this.
Team rules can be made, followed and enforced no matter what era you come from. The rules may change, but the meaning behind them remains the same.Thats all sellers wants. Players demanding success from their teammates and ensuring it comes.
I think what Sellers says rings true in relative terms.
As i said before, i think the key is this.
Team rules can be made, followed and enforced no matter what era you come from. The rules may change, but the meaning behind them remains the same.
Thats all sellers wants. Players demanding success from their teammates and ensuring it comes.
x2
I think what Sellers says rings true in relative terms.
As i said before, i think the key is this.
Team rules can be made, followed and enforced no matter what era you come from. The rules may change, but the meaning behind them remains the same.
Thats all sellers wants. Players demanding success from their teammates and ensuring it comes.
Agree with the sentiment but we need to look forward and not dwell too much on past glories which were achieved when times were a lot different. The principles may well be the same but the context and all important details are not - let's put the past in the past and look forward to what we need to do in the now. Sellers means well but he will not get us where we need to be today, at the general level what he's saying is pretty much "motherhood".
There are plenty of would be advisers who can dispense the "what we need" type of advice but fall short when it comes to the all important "How" part.
until there's relentless bullicking at every contest , hard tackling, players backing others in the contest, clean skills by foot and hand, fast and fearless breaking of lines, scoreboard impact , this club is nothing....it has been nothing for over a decade.
Reality is, many of this lot play for contracts. Thats where my loyalty ends. Everybody is on the table to achieve the aforementioned. You don't get a say where either
At the moment it has an identity crisis at it struggles to shake off the rich filth that covers every aspect of the club.
At the moment it has an identity crisis at it struggles to shake off the rich filth that covers every aspect of the club.
x2 The club stands for confusion at the moment on and off the field....
At the moment it has an identity crisis at it struggles to shake off the rich filth that covers every aspect of the club.
Filthy rich tend to think that you can just go out and buy whatever you want and solve your problems that way. Hasn't worked like that in the AFL for some years now - wonder when the penny will drop for them. The rest of the membership of course aren't filthy rich.......just effin' filthy!!
Filthy rich tend to think that you can just go out and buy whatever you want and solve your problems that way. Hasn't worked like that in the AFL for some years now - wonder when the penny will drop for them. The rest of the membership of course aren't filthy rich.......just effin' filthy!!
Cookie...Just thought I would congratulate you on your Brownlow medal... :))
Cookie...Just thought I would congratulate you on your Brownlow medal... :))
Didn't see that coming.. :)
Cookie...Just thought I would congratulate you on your Brownlow medal... :))
Wow! Thanks EB - I hadn't noticed that. (I must try and spend less time at the laptop! ::) )