Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on March 25, 2021, 06:17:44 pm

Title: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: crashlander on March 25, 2021, 06:17:44 pm
Sorry, guys, I appear to have made a serious error. I don't know where I got that from, but I do apologize.
We play Fremantle On Easter Sunday after a long break.
It is a break we need, as we need to make some on-field changes. It would be nice if some of our injury concerns would be fixed by then, but I cannot see it happening.

One things in our favour is that Freo don't tend to travel well. A second things is that they also have injuries at the moment.
For all that, I could not call us favourites. Not after the last 2 performances. We are not getting the ball out of the middle enough. Until we do, we will not win many games.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Western Buldogs
Post by: flyboy77 on March 25, 2021, 06:28:36 pm
Dockers next week at marvel!
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 26, 2021, 04:57:15 pm
Out Casboult Williamson Setterfield (Murphy Dow, Newnes on notice)
In McDonald Stocker Cottrel
Need to add some Kent and workers into the team.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 26, 2021, 04:57:35 pm
Dockers next week at marvel!
0-3
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: kruddler on March 26, 2021, 05:45:33 pm
Out Casboult Williamson Setterfield (Murphy Dow, Newnes on notice)
In McDonald Stocker Cottrel
Need to add some Kent and workers into the team.
Gotta get Eddie back into the team.

He energises a bunch that seems to be lacking in self motivation.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: JonDorotich on March 26, 2021, 06:05:02 pm
Gotta get Eddie back into the team.

He energises a bunch that seems to be lacking in self motivation.

I’m sorry, Eddie is well and truly cooked barring a couple of joe the goose handballs for goal. Frankly, if we play 3 or more of the following group (also tempted to pop Setters in that list) we’re a very good chance to lose
- Eddie
- Murphy
- Newnes
- Curnow
- Pittonet as first ruck
- Casboult
- Liam Jones

Unfortunately for now we probably have to play 2 of Jones, Casboult and Pittonet, leaving 1 of the rest without materially increasing the risk of losing. I’m all for dropping Jones and putting Cas back, but our coaching staff lack vision and courage.

McGovern, Silvagni, Stocker, Cunningham, Cottrell & Kennedy offer good depth and hopefully we’re able and to add Honey, Carroll, Kemp, Durdin & Philp to our senior depth ASAP.

Hoping like hell that Dekoning recovers soon and Charlie C after the half way point.






Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 26, 2021, 06:23:18 pm
Fremantle are injury hit, No Frontline keybacks both injured, dangerman Walters injured, their kid ruckman Meek will be playing his third game and they have one KP Forward of note in Taberner, plus we play them away from WA.
Doesnt get any easier on paper, in fact if we cant beat them by more than 5-6 goals then were are no hope of finals.
Ok they have the old crew of Nat Fyfe and Mundy and Luke Ryan usually gets a zillion intercept marks but its slim pickings looking for Freo winners IMO.
I'm more worried about Gold Coast at home than Freo at Marvel.....reckon Harry can kick 7 plus vs this mob.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: crashlander on March 26, 2021, 06:37:14 pm
Fremantle are injury hit, No Frontline keybacks both injured, dangerman Walters injured, their kid ruckman Meek will be playing his third game and they have one KP Forward of note in Taberner, plus we play them away from WA.
Doesnt get any easier on paper, in fact if we cant beat them by more than 5-6 goals then were are no hope of finals.
Ok they have the old crew of Nat Fyfe and Mundy and Luke Ryan usually gets a zillion intercept marks but its slim pickings looking for Freo winners IMO.
I'm more worried about Gold Coast at home than Freo at Marvel.....reckon Harry can kick 7 plus vs this mob.

From your lips to God's Ears!
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on March 26, 2021, 06:45:28 pm
I’m sorry, Eddie is well and truly cooked barring a couple of joe the goose handballs for goal. Frankly, if we play 3 or more of the following group (also tempted to pop Setters in that list) we’re a very good chance to lose
- Eddie
- Murphy
- Newnes
- Curnow
- Pittonet as first ruck
- Casboult
- Liam Jones

Unfortunately for now we probably have to play 2 of Jones, Casboult and Pittonet, leaving 1 of the rest without materially increasing the risk of losing. I’m all for dropping Jones and putting Cas back, but our coaching staff lack vision and courage.

McGovern, Silvagni, Stocker, Cunningham, Cottrell & Kennedy offer good depth and hopefully we’re able and to add Honey, Carroll, Kemp, Durdin & Philp to our senior depth ASAP.

Hoping like hell that Dekoning recovers soon and Charlie C after the half way point.








Murphy is far more cooked than Betts.

There is no evidence to suggest Betts is cooked....kicked 2.3 in the last ressies game, they reckon he should have kicked 5.....

He was our fastest measured player in game last year.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 26, 2021, 07:25:49 pm
Fremantle are injury hit, No Frontline keybacks both injured, dangerman Walters injured, their kid ruckman Meek will be playing his third game and they have one KP Forward of note in Taberner, plus we play them away from WA.
Doesnt get any easier on paper, in fact if we cant beat them by more than 5-6 goals then were are no hope of finals.
Ok they have the old crew of Nat Fyfe and Mundy and Luke Ryan usually gets a zillion intercept marks but its slim pickings looking for Freo winners IMO.
I'm more worried about Gold Coast at home than Freo at Marvel.....reckon Harry can kick 7 plus vs this mob.

We Are Carlton...
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 26, 2021, 07:33:04 pm
We Are Carlton...
I smell what you are cooking but ....this is crunch week, a gimme game to kick start the season.
If we cant win this easy then we are cooked and headed to Tassie as a relocation team...joking.
Dockers are a bunch of kids minus about 3-4 older players with a rookie coach playing away from WA... it cant get any easier.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 26, 2021, 07:47:20 pm
I smell what you are cooking but ....this is crunch week, a gimme game to kick start the season.
If we cant win this easy then we are cooked and headed to Tassie as a relocation team...joking.
Dockers are a bunch of kids minus about 3-4 older players with a rookie coach playing away from WA... it cant get any easier.
Come on EB, you should now better than that mate. Our club is the master of making easy things very hard.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: capcom on March 26, 2021, 07:51:52 pm
If in fact that's the result EB, then let's make more changes ... 3 at least.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 26, 2021, 07:56:25 pm
If in fact that's the result EB, then let's make more changes ... 3 at least.

Happy to make changes to kick start the season Cap....I want effort players and players who want to lead the team not sit back and
wait for others to do something.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 26, 2021, 08:05:21 pm
Come on EB, you should now better than that mate. Our club is the master of making easy things very hard.
GTC, Then there is something wrong and we have all been sold a lie instead of hope. This is the year we are meant to be moving to the next level and I'm sick of excuses and half arsed efforts from the coaching box and playing list.
There is no excuse this week apart from lack of effort, you dont lose or just fall over the line to a team like Freo with our talent unless you are not trying or are completely incompetent in terms of coaching and leadership at all levels.

Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 26, 2021, 08:11:31 pm
GTC, Then there is something wrong and we have all been sold a lie instead of hope. This is the year we are meant to be moving to the next level and I'm sick of excuses and half arsed efforts from the coaching box and playing list.
There is no excuse this week apart from lack of effort, you dont lose or just fall over the line to a team like Freo with our talent unless you are not trying or are completely incompetent in terms of coaching and leadership at all levels.


So if we lose the unlosable and go 0-3, what should happen?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on March 26, 2021, 08:13:14 pm
No jokes about Tassie please... A club is going to be sent there and it won't be (self righteous)  whorethorn, it'll be some other irrelevant club.   After we win six games,  sack Teague and have  30 000 exhausted members drop off management will sell the club out to save their worthless asses.  Seen it before,  it's coming.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Micky0 on March 26, 2021, 08:15:51 pm
GTC, Then there is something wrong and we have all been sold a lie instead of hope. This is the year we are meant to be moving to the next level and I'm sick of excuses and half arsed efforts from the coaching box and playing list.
There is no excuse this week apart from lack of effort, you dont lose or just fall over the line to a team like Freo with our talent unless you are not trying or are completely incompetent in terms of coaching and leadership at all levels.


Agree, I’m done with bullcrap excuses - oh we don’t have Charlie C, oh McG is out, oh If only JSOS was there, etcetera etcetera.

No. Gtfo, I’m done.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on March 26, 2021, 08:17:11 pm
The last paragraph from EB sums it up.... "incompetent at all levels".  I fear we are.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Micky0 on March 26, 2021, 08:19:07 pm
They collectively need a rocket. A proper rocket. If winning culture is crap, get rid of the poison. I don’t care anymore who it is - if it’s Teague, Cripps, Murphy, doch - don’t care, done. Done to death with these Insipid performances.

And ffs play people in their best positions, please.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 26, 2021, 10:07:19 pm
So if we lose the unlosable and go 0-3, what should happen?
Teague will have another nail in the coffin, the pressure will build and not many coaches survive in that situation.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: JonDorotich on March 26, 2021, 10:53:17 pm
Murphy is far more cooked than Betts.

There is no evidence to suggest Betts is cooked....kicked 2.3 in the last ressies game, they reckon he should have kicked 5.....

He was our fastest measured player in game last year.

 Fair call
 
My view may be skewed by the greasy conditions up in the Qld, which made him look a lot more fumbly than he used to be.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: kruddler on March 26, 2021, 11:09:43 pm
Fair call
 
My view may be skewed by the greasy conditions up in the Qld, which made him look a lot more fumbly than he used to be.

Don't discount the fact that he was in a hub for most of last year. That meant his missus was home with 4 kids (and 1 on the way). Eddie is about as big of a family man i've seen in a footy club and it was terrible for him to not have his family around.

Add to the fact he had the racism issues to deal with as well.

I'm surprised he even wanted to play on after all that, would've sucked the life right out of him and i'm not surprised his performances were a little below par because of it.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on March 28, 2021, 06:52:52 pm
Pretty confident this week. Sounds like they got a good kick in the arse last week. They fire up just like last year in round 3 at Geelong.

All good as long as it is every week not as their choosing.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: tonyo on March 28, 2021, 08:18:34 pm
Freo look pretty good today against the Giants....

This will not be easy by any stretch

But Fyfe has been medically subbed with concussion (which equals 12 days off....?)

Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on March 28, 2021, 08:22:26 pm
Freo look pretty good today against the Giants....

This will not be easy by any stretch

But Fyfe has been medically subbed with concussion (which equals 12 days off....?)

Yes, agree. If they kicked straight it would have been a lot uglier. They won't be easy beats by any means.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: rocky on March 28, 2021, 08:32:47 pm
If you watched that  PRIME "making their mark" stuff you would surely have realised that GWS are certainly not in a good space. Cameron won't last past this year (if not sooner) so it's hard to gauge how good FREO are.
We should win but I thought we'd knock off the filth so what do I know,
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on March 29, 2021, 02:19:07 am
Not confident by any means. There are no easy games for us the way we are going.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on March 29, 2021, 07:49:51 am
Their no names will still beat us,  because our MC won't do the scouting and prep work.

Headlines next week....  "calls for Teague to be sacked"
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 29, 2021, 08:58:05 am
With no Fyfe there will be no excuses, we should win easily, I'd view anything less than 5 goals as a poor effort.
GWS are a rabble and Cameron will be lucky to last the season..
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on March 29, 2021, 09:15:47 am
With no Fyfe there will be no excuses, we should win easily, I'd view anything less than 5 goals as a poor effort.
GWS are a rabble and Cameron will be lucky to last the season..


Laughed like a fat spider when I heard Cameron threaten plenty of changes to playing personnel for their next outing. The only change GWS needs, Cameron, is you out of the place. Been saying it for years... not a senior coach's dot. Good assistant? Maybe. Senior coach?  :))  :))  :))
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: WASurfer on March 29, 2021, 01:29:55 pm
Casboult has been ordinary the first two weeks so McDonald deserves a shot...his second half against Richmond was not too bad.

Can Plowman survive the cull this week? He was absolutely putrid against Collingwood.

One of Setterfield or Newnes probably goes out and I'd be getting Stocker in this week. Freo's smalls aren't big names but were very good yesterday and we really don't have any of those small defender types who can lock down on an opponent.....Schultz will take Plowman to the cleaners.

With Fisher, Fogarty and Gibbons, I can't see how Betts comes in yet. And on that Fogarty has shown so far that he's going to be a very good player for us.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: dodge on March 29, 2021, 02:30:55 pm
Agree, I’m done with bullcrap excuses - oh we don’t have Charlie C, oh McG is out, oh If only JSOS was there, etcetera etcetera.

Are we really expecting Charlie to play again?  I'm not.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: WASurfer on March 29, 2021, 02:57:52 pm
Dodge...IMO any games we get will just be a bonus....another reason why we really need Harry to come on in a big way this season. McGovern will be on the trade table at season's end unless he improves dramatically...and even then he won't be worth much....even more frustrating when you see the form of Shane McAdam for Adelaide.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LoveNavy on March 29, 2021, 03:51:22 pm
Unless something changes, like we play 4q, we won't beat Freo. It's early days I know, but I've seen little to suggest we're taking that next step as a team. Several individuals have impressed but that will never get you over the line.

Freo had 2nd and 3rd teir players step up supported by the likes of ever reliable Mundy and Fyfe (pre inj). Their CP numbers were impressive. An area we've fallen away in for long periods. Resulting in coughing up a run of goals and ultimately the game. We haven't shown the tenacity to fight back like previously, which looks like a fitness issue.

I know it might only need a few small changes, and we've had PS injuries. However, IMO we haven't been able to cover or adapt adequately, despite the coming of age of our rebuild.

Dockers by 9 (please prove me wrong 🤞)
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 29, 2021, 04:06:49 pm
Dodge...IMO any games we get will just be a bonus....another reason why we really need Harry to come on in a big way this season. McGovern will be on the trade table at season's end unless he improves dramatically...and even then he won't be worth much....even more frustrating when you see the form of Shane McAdam for Adelaide.
Yep  McAdam is showing plenty, his marking is spectacular, would have allowed Martin to play further midfield time, just making the McGovern deal look even worse.
Hope Krueger the other player from those State league picks from Geelong doesn't amount to much...


Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on March 29, 2021, 04:24:29 pm
Casboult has been ordinary the first two weeks so McDonald deserves a shot...his second half against Richmond was not too bad.

Can Plowman survive the cull this week? He was absolutely putrid against Collingwood.

One of Setterfield or Newnes probably goes out and I'd be getting Stocker in this week. Freo's smalls aren't big names but were very good yesterday and we really don't have any of those small defender types who can lock down on an opponent.....Schultz will take Plowman to the cleaners.

With Fisher, Fogarty and Gibbons, I can't see how Betts comes in yet. And on that Fogarty has shown so far that he's going to be a very good player for us.

Seriously, the whole defence was poor but no point shooting Plow and co unless you put the firing squad on the midfield first.

That's where the defensive pressure must start....
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gags1960 on March 29, 2021, 04:35:48 pm
I would be playing the Rock Lobster this week Cottrell no. 46 as he's the last bloke to show some spirit and grit after that late goal last year and we drop him....he can take Murph's spot...sorry mate we can't gift you a pensioners ticket to the 300 club. Don't need another Mick Martyn
Doc 1 tackle in 2 games...now thats seriously embarrassing from a co captain..wtf especially in a backline thats leaking easy goals...

Williamson needs to go back to the 2's seriously soft..and one sided only....

If I was journo at the presser I would ask Mr nice DT....do you get your guys to practice on their non-preferred sides for extended periods like Tom Mitchell did in the VFL with the Hawks before he became a 3 time premiership player and kicks more with his left foot than right in later years?

What did our skills coaches do in the 6 months offseason to address the issue of one sided players like Williamson?.. He has been caught stone dead 3 times Holding the ball trying to stop and prop back to his left foot.... amazing an AFL player can get to this level as a one sided player as a half back flanker(maybe a key position player can)

Footy scouts know quick time which players are one sided..I saw .Saad v Richmond kick a pinpoint 45m right foot pass along the boundary line and hit a target...thats skill but now the common std....what a difference between our average performers and elite player like Saad we bring in..we are miles away

Get some hard nuts in Bam Bam Kennedy needs to play..at least he has a body that can hurt/impact

Ugly if we lose to Freo...last rites for the season
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: WASurfer on March 29, 2021, 04:42:03 pm
Kennedy, Cottrell, Stocker......get all 3 of them in for this week.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: dodge on March 29, 2021, 04:43:30 pm
I don't know the rules, but Kennedy and Cottrell are Rookies - can they just come in and play?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on March 29, 2021, 04:50:41 pm

Doc 1 tackle in 2 games...now thats seriously embarrassing from a co captain..wtf especially in a backline thats leaking easy goals...

Mr nice DT....do you get your guys to practice on their non-preferred sides for extended periods like Tom Mitchell did in the VFL with the Hawks before he became a 3 time premiership player and kicks more with his left foot than right in later years?

What did our skills coaches do in the 6 months offseason to address the issue of one sided players like Williamson?.. He has been caught stone dead 3 times Holding the ball trying to stop and prop back to his left foot.

Get some hard nuts in Bam Bam Kennedy needs to play...at least he has a body that can hurt/impact


👍
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Raydan on March 29, 2021, 04:53:11 pm
It's not just about selection, it's about the position they play. Setterfield on the wing 19 meters gained???!!!???

While Walsh has done well on the ball, it looks as if he will need to be on the wing, so we have runners outside and Setterfield inside, but does that make us too big and slow.

What about Ed Curnow? Still good enough, plays his guts out, but by playing him on the wing do we do a Bolton and play Ed out of position? If we bring Stocker in, are we going to play him inside on the ball? Or is he a Williamson replacement? Again playing a natural midfielder out of position.

Can we play Ed of a HFF flank that pushes into the mid after the ball has been bounced and Cripps goes to HFF and plays the lead up to the wings for a rebound. He has the hands to take an over head mark then hopefully feed of to the runners.

This way we can play Cripps as a forward half inside mid against a HBF and Stocker (If playing BP) can be the same in the back half.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: WASurfer on March 29, 2021, 05:10:17 pm
Bolton tried to turn Ed into a forward towards the end of his tenure.....Curnow's best position is and always will be as a run-with tagger...play him on Mundy this week. Mundy picked up a lazy 35 possessions yesterday....he's still a beautiful user of the footy and simply can't be allowed to get that many touches.

Stocker should get the gig on Lachie Schultz....very dangerous and tough small forward.

If Murphy is being played predominantly as a small forward, then drop him....with Gibbons, Fisher and Fogarty doing the same thing, we can't carry him. If Setterfield isn't playing as an insider then bring Kennedy in. Freo's young midfield with Cerra, Brayshaw, Serong etc will kill us around the ground.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 29, 2021, 05:35:40 pm
It's not just about selection, it's about the position they play. Setterfield on the wing 19 meters gained???!!!???

While Walsh has done well on the ball, it looks as if he will need to be on the wing, so we have runners outside and Setterfield inside, but does that make us too big and slow.

What about Ed Curnow? Still good enough, plays his guts out, but by playing him on the wing do we do a Bolton and play Ed out of position? If we bring Stocker in, are we going to play him inside on the ball? Or is he a Williamson replacement? Again playing a natural midfielder out of position.

Can we play Ed of a HFF flank that pushes into the mid after the ball has been bounced and Cripps goes to HFF and plays the lead up to the wings for a rebound. He has the hands to take an over head mark then hopefully feed of to the runners.

This way we can play Cripps as a forward half inside mid against a HBF and Stocker (If playing BP) can be the same in the back half.
Lets talk about Setterfield and where soft players end up.........usually on a wing. Not sure what happened over summer but he has a bad case of the handbrake harry whites and been pulling up short in contests and avoiding contact.
I agree with most he needs to get back to the coalface but we cant send him there the way he has been playing, he is just too non contested at the minute and needs some time in the twos to get some confidence.
I think he is a decent player but one who is out of form and giving him somewhere easy to play isnt helping him or the team.
His role is to support Cripps and become a top big bodied mid with us, I see him as a Josh Dunkley type who might not be silky smooth but can play that support mid role to Cripps as well as lock onto an opposing tall mid who is giving us trouble much like Dunkley does for the Dogs.
Its really important he makes it as a top line player and I hope the coaching staff are working hard to get him back on track and attacking the ball properly.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on March 29, 2021, 06:51:53 pm
Don't like the idea of taking Walsh out from the coalface just to accomodate Setters tbh. Seems like a retrograde step to me.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 29, 2021, 07:04:20 pm
Id swing the axe this week, some serious changes required and lets have a look at a few.

FB Stocker Jones Docherty
HB SPS Weitering Saad
C Williams Cripps Curnow
HF Gibbons Silvagni Martin
FF Forgarty McKay Fisher
R Pittonet Walsh Kennedy
Int Murphy Carrol Dow McDonald
Out Casboult Williamson Setterfield Plowman Newnes (all omitted)
In Carrrol Kennedy Stocker Silvagni McDonald
Emerg Betts(sub) Newnes

SPS - Last week is the bare minimum in terms of a pass, bring it again or ta ta
Murphy - Time is running out
Doc - See Murphy
Jones - Play the %'s
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: shawny on March 29, 2021, 07:27:22 pm
Think our task become harder now Fyfe is out.
While overall our opposition is weaker without Fyfe it also means they will be less predictable and their gameplan will be changed as result of Fyfe not being out there.
This is where we will struggle as our coaches are not exactly quick at adapting.
And if Walters plays even more uncertainty for our coaches to deal with.
Failed in the box when pies changed there gameplan reckon the same will occur this week. 
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: kruddler on March 29, 2021, 07:30:30 pm
Id swing the axe this week, some serious changes required and lets have a look at a few.

FB Stocker Jones Docherty
HB SPS Weitering Saad
C Williams Cripps Curnow
HF Gibbons Silvagni Martin
FF Forgarty McKay Fisher
R Pittonet Walsh Kennedy
Int Murphy Carrol Dow McDonald
Out Casboult Williamson Setterfield Plowman Newnes (all omitted)
In Carrrol Kennedy Stocker Silvagni McDonald
Emerg Betts(sub) Newnes

SPS - Last week is the bare minimum in terms of a pass, bring it again or ta ta
Murphy - Time is running out
Doc - See Murphy
Jones - Play the %'s

Agree with Casboult + Willo out for McDonald +  .....someone. Is Silvagni available? If so, its him. If not, its Kennedy.
Betts as the sub is something i called for mid-game last week.

I wouldn't go further than that at this stage as i think the replacements are worse.

Stocker i'd like to see more of.
Carroll ditto
Kennedy/Silvagni depending on Silvagnis fitness.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Milhanna13 on March 29, 2021, 08:17:21 pm
If you watched that  PRIME "making their mark" stuff you would surely have realised that GWS are certainly not in a good space. Cameron won't last past this year (if not sooner) so it's hard to gauge how good FREO are.
We should win but I thought we'd knock off the filth so what do I know,
Yup, the gws stuff on there was a real eye opener. Lead by that inspirational leader Cogs!!!  Johnno Brown he ain’t
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: JonDorotich on March 29, 2021, 08:27:50 pm
Time to make some moves.

Murphy, Newnes and Setterfield out, Cunningham, Stocker and Silvagni in.

Fogarty to defence b/c he can tackle and use the ball.
Stocker into the guts replacing Setterfield
Cunningham to provide the run and X factor that Murphy can’t provide
SPS to rotate through the middle

Fogarty Jones Plowman
Docherty Weitering Saad
Williams Cripps Martin
Fisher  McKay Cunningham
Gibbons Casboult  Silvagni

Pittonet Stocker Walsh

Curnow SPS Williamson Dow

I’d also drop Casboult but I just don’t have any trust in McDonald, so he gets a reprieve.


Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on March 30, 2021, 08:04:39 am
You'd be putting Stocker to the sword under the current playing conditions, if these rules were about 2 seasons back he may never have been drafted.

Hopefully his fitness gets to the point later into the season that we can make use of him, aerobically he's not elite, despite having all the skills.

The one who should get a gig is Cottrell, not fast but highly aerobic, he'll still be running at the final siren,
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 30, 2021, 09:20:43 am
Time has come to rest Cripps, playing with painkillers each week isn't on imo.. They don't have Fyfe so good time to do it and its time to test kids and work out who is doing what for the future.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: townsendcalling on March 30, 2021, 09:31:55 am
Time has come to rest Cripps, playing with painkillers each week isn't on imo.. They don't have Fyfe so good time to do it and its time to test kids and work out who is doing what for the future.

The next two weeks, the prime opposition midfield movers, Fyfe and Rowell are both out, give Cripps a rest and see if others can stand up.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on March 30, 2021, 10:12:26 am
The next two weeks, the prime opposition midfield movers, Fyfe and Rowell are both out, give Cripps a rest and see if others can stand up.
Yep, and that might be the right circumstance under which to test Stocker, because at least he can have a run down chase type player working besides him. Have all of Cripps, Walsh, Stocker, Setterfield, Ed and things are looking a bit slow.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 30, 2021, 10:21:53 am
Maybe time for Dow and Setterfield to step up and show they can do Cripps job. Reality is Cripps is now at the managed state of his career IMHO and we need to be smarter and share the workload. Sometimes in adversity strange things happen and players go to the next level with responsibility, Kennedy is another who deserves a chance and maybe can re ignite his career.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on March 30, 2021, 10:42:39 am
Maybe time for Dow and Setterfield to step up and show they can do Cripps job. Reality is Cripps is now at the managed state of his career IMHO and we need to be smarter and share the workload. Sometimes in adversity strange things happen and players go to the next level with responsibility, Kennedy is another who deserves a chance and maybe can re ignite his career.

Agree, others need to urgently step up in the engine room. Looking at "Cripps in the managed state of his career" already!! Doesn't take us long to chew up genuine talent and spit it out mangled does it??   :o
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 30, 2021, 11:30:00 am
Agree, others need to urgently step up in the engine room. Looking at "Cripps in the managed state of his career" already!! Doesn't take us long to chew up genuine talent and spit it out mangled does it??   :o
Stating the obvious but its Chris Judd all over again, we are slow learners.......😫
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: spf on March 30, 2021, 11:33:28 am
Where is the "what do we get for Cripps?" thread? If he is playing sore, then yes rest him and play the others. We do supposedly have depth now.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 30, 2021, 11:41:19 am
Where is the "what do we get for Cripps?" thread? If he is playing sore, then yes rest him and play the others. We do supposedly have depth now.
Cornes and Lloyd reckon Cripps is only worth $750k a year given what he is producing, not sure we are going to get the value most here suggest he is worth if he was traded. Its become a real problem given his contract status...
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on March 30, 2021, 12:43:17 pm
Agree, others need to urgently step up in the engine room. Looking at "Cripps in the managed state of his career" already!! Doesn't take us long to chew up genuine talent and spit it out mangled does it??   :o

Bit hard for a guy like kennedy to step up when he's clearly on the outer with the coach.....

Played some terrific games last year, then injured, then overlooked....

And has the ability to double as a legitimate lead up, 3rd tall type forward.

Terrific overhead and a reliable set shot.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: spf on March 30, 2021, 12:44:29 pm
Cornes and Lloyd reckon Cripps is only worth $750k a year given what he is producing, not sure we are going to get the value most here suggest he is worth if he was traded. Its become a real problem given his contract status...

I never wanted to have to contemplate this, but he might be best going back to WA. The fast open grounds surrounded by elite runners, he is the damaging distributor that they probably need (Fremantle more so). With Fyffe on deck, add Cripps to that line-up and they are a very difficult proposition. I would see about trading McGovern there as well. But what to ask for and get back?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on March 30, 2021, 12:52:42 pm
Bit hard for a guy like kennedy to step up when he's clearly on the outer with the coach.....

Played some terrific games last year, then injured, then overlooked....

And has the ability to double as a legitimate lead up, 3rd tall type forward.

Terrific overhead and a reliable set shot.

Agree, he needs to be given an opportunity.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 30, 2021, 12:55:58 pm
I never wanted to have to contemplate this, but he might be best going back to WA. The fast open grounds surrounded by elite runners, he is the damaging distributor that they probably need (Fremantle more so). With Fyffe on deck, add Cripps to that line-up and they are a very difficult proposition. I would see about trading McGovern there as well. But what to ask for and get back?
Agree, Mundy would be in his last year and Cripps would be the perfect big body to take his place, Freo have a lot of quick young kids and Cripps could work with Fyfe. Like to keep Cripps but the reality is its a business and Cripps is a commodity and if we could get a really good deal for him you have to sit down and do the maths on what we can get to replace him and any extras to further improve our list. I'd be very keen on Luke Ryan and Cerra, ....
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 30, 2021, 12:58:55 pm
Bit hard for a guy like kennedy to step up when he's clearly on the outer with the coach.....

Played some terrific games last year, then injured, then overlooked....

And has the ability to double as a legitimate lead up, 3rd tall type forward.

Terrific overhead and a reliable set shot.
Dont need to convince me, I'll go so far to say the coaching staff have avoided picking Kennedy.

Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on March 30, 2021, 01:01:05 pm
I never wanted to have to contemplate this, but he might be best going back to WA. The fast open grounds surrounded by elite runners, he is the damaging distributor that they probably need (Fremantle more so). With Fyffe on deck, add Cripps to that line-up and they are a very difficult proposition. I would see about trading McGovern there as well. But what to ask for and get back?
In my opinion we use Cripps wrongly, instead of resting him forward as a tall we should be resting him forward as a small to get at the feet of the talls and leave guys like Betts, Fisher and Gibbons on the outside.

Big H and Levi are hardly ever out marked, most of the time when they fail to mark the ball comes off their hands but not to our advantage. Imagine if they got a bit more creative and controlled with those failed marks and we had guys like Cripps and Walsh at the fall of the ball set to distribute to Betts, Fisher, Gibbons, Fogarty, etc., etc.! In effect a failed pack mark is a pseudo ruck stoppage.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on March 30, 2021, 01:06:03 pm
On Murphy.

Is he in the 22 on merit?

Not this year.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on March 30, 2021, 01:07:02 pm
Agree, Mundy would be in his last year and Cripps would be the perfect big body to take his place, Freo have a lot of quick young kids and Cripps could work with Fyfe. Like to keep Cripps but the reality is its a business and Cripps is a commodity and if we could get a really good deal for him you have to sit down and do the maths on what we can get to replace him and any extras to further improve our list. I'd be very keen on Luke Ryan and Cerra, ....

Cerra and Serong for Crippa?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on March 30, 2021, 01:07:29 pm
On Murphy.

Is he in the 22 on merit?

Not this year.
A big problem for us is that we only have a couple of A-Grade ball users, and sMurph is one of them.

While we are getting smashed in the midfield, I feel we haven't got enough footy "on our terms" to judge the D50 or F50. When we do get the footy we are under the pump or trapped in a press.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on March 30, 2021, 01:09:57 pm
I never wanted to have to contemplate this, but he might be best going back to WA. The fast open grounds surrounded by elite runners, he is the damaging distributor that they probably need (Fremantle more so). With Fyffe on deck, add Cripps to that line-up and they are a very difficult proposition. I would see about trading McGovern there as well. But what to ask for and get back?

Amendment.

Luke Ryan, Cerra and Serong for Cripps and Guv.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on March 30, 2021, 01:11:37 pm
A big problem for us is that we only have a couple of A-Grade ball users, and sMurph is one of them.

While we are getting smashed in the midfield, I feel we haven't got enough footy "on our terms" to judge the D50 or F50. When we do get the footy we are under the pump or trapped in a press.

Perhaps you're a stage ahead.

None of our mids is even getting first hands on the pill.

Is that skill, mindset, set up structures or some combination?

I'd say a combo - but largely rests on the coaching staff to sort it out.....
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on March 30, 2021, 01:22:21 pm
Perhaps you're a stage ahead.

None of our mids is even getting first hands on the pill.

Is that skill, mindset, set up structures or some combination?

I'd say a combo - but largely rests on the coaching staff to sort it out.....
So guys playing permanent HBFs and HFFs get toasted or starved from the bulk of restarts.

The 6-6-6 probably hasn't helped us either, other than Saad we don't have a player with enough pace to play the sweeper role, when at AFL level you probably need two or three in a game just to get through it. So Saad is run ragged by the 4th Qtr, in both opening rounds. Put him in a team winning clearances and he'll be running off opponents in the last quarter and hitting blokes lace out.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: spf on March 30, 2021, 01:29:30 pm
Amendment.
Luke Ryan, Cerra and Serong for Cripps and Guv.

Maybe it is time to consider a mega trade type deal: Offer Fisher, McGovern and Cripps and involve both WA clubs. There may be interest. What would we want back?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: kruddler on March 30, 2021, 02:44:08 pm
On Murphy.

Is he in the 22 on merit?

Not this year.
Can we name 22 players who get in the 22 on merit?

I reckon we are a few short of that 22 at the moment.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Thryleon on March 30, 2021, 03:27:38 pm
We are seriously trading out cripps now?


Be careful what you wish for.  Many were happy to get rid of Gibbs for two first rounders.

Those players are Dow and Lachie o brien.

Cripps is going now, and his worst footy is still capable of being a match winner and we are going to ask for maybe sps, dow and lochie o brien back at the trade table potentially....

Im glad many on here aren't list managers. 
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on March 30, 2021, 03:34:51 pm
We are seriously trading out cripps now?


Be careful what you wish for.  Many were happy to get rid of Gibbs for two first rounders.

Those players are Dow and Lachie o brien.

Cripps is going now, and his worst footy is still capable of being a match winner and we are going to ask for maybe sps, dow and lochie o brien back at the trade table potentially....

Im glad many on here aren't list managers. 

I'd be astonished if Crippa left or if our club has even contemplated life without him. Until there is anything concrete to the contrary, Crippa is a BlueBagger for life.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on March 30, 2021, 03:42:23 pm
Can we name 22 players who get in the 22 on merit?

I reckon we are a few short of that 22 at the moment.

Impossible to answer as a few who are shining in the Magoos are not being given a chance at senior level. Still the most conservative club in the competition at the selection table... form means nought next to reputation or perceived 'balance'.

At present, I reckon, based on form, we're sending out, about, our best 18 each week. Casboult & Willo were embarrassing against Rottingwood... and that's just for starters. Then you have to account for the fact that we regularly play 2-3 blokes out of position... so now we're down to a 'stable' 15 or so... then there's no defensive pressure... then there's the playing blokes on reputation not form (come on down Murphy & Co.), now we're down to a 'stable' 13 or so... oh dear, I picked a bad week to give up amphetamines (with thanks to Lloyd Bridges).
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 30, 2021, 04:26:02 pm
A big problem for us is that we only have a couple of A-Grade ball users, and sMurph is one of them.

While we are getting smashed in the midfield, I feel we haven't got enough footy "on our terms" to judge the D50 or F50. When we do get the footy we are under the pump or trapped in a press.
Murphy is being gifted games to get him to 300, I get it,  not many players reach that milestone but he is taking a spot that a youngster should have on the wing.I'm no fan of LOB at this stage but he along with Cottrell and others need that spot to either make or break them as players and I really think its a bit selfish of Murphy to be prolonging his career for glory and think he should say to the club I will step down and retire gracefully.
We are seriously trading out cripps now?


Be careful what you wish for.  Many were happy to get rid of Gibbs for two first rounders.

Those players are Dow and Lachie o brien.

Cripps is going now, and his worst footy is still capable of being a match winner and we are going to ask for maybe sps, dow and lochie o brien back at the trade table potentially....

Im glad many on here aren't list managers. 
I think the Gibbs deal was fine and good trading but the Dow and LOB selections obviously are looking shaky.
We might not have to make a call on Cripps, if we only offer 750k like Cornes and Lloyd value him at then he wont be staying, he will take the million dollar offer/s and walk.
What a lot of people are forgetting is we dont really have much of a hold on Cripps anymore, he will be a restricted free agent and if he does stay its going to be for a over inflated deal or for a short term deal so he can leave after a couple of years and take the big dollars then rather than now. This maybe the last time we can call the shots and will have to do what GWS did with Cameron and force a trade by matching another clubs offer if Cripps says he wants out...
You have to play the odds, no club killer big money  deals and no short term contract where we could end up big time losers and get nothing for him trade wise except a compo pick..
It cant be an emotional deal it has to be business....
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on March 30, 2021, 04:33:01 pm
Oh yay.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: spf on March 30, 2021, 04:33:16 pm
Murphy is being gifted games to get him to 300, I get it,  not many players reach that milestone but he is taking a spot that a youngster should have on the wing.I'm no fan of LOB at this stage but he along with Cottrell and others need that spot to either make or break them as players and I really think its a bit selfish of Murphy to be prolonging his career for glory and think he should say to the club I will step down and retire gracefully.I think the Gibbs deal was fine and good trading but the Dow and LOB selections obviously are looking shaky.
We might not have to make a call on Cripps, if we only offer 750k like Cornes and Lloyd value him at then he wont be staying, he will take the million dollar offer/s and walk.
What a lot of people are forgetting is we dont really have much of a hold on Cripps anymore, he will be a restricted free agent and if he does stay its going to be for a over inflated deal or for a short term deal so he can leave after a couple of years and take the big dollars then rather than now. This maybe the last time we can call the shots and will have to do what GWS did with Cameron and force a trade by matching another clubs offer if Cripps says he wants out...
You have to play the odds, no club killer big money  deals and no short term contract where we could end up big time losers and get nothing for him trade wise except a compo pick..
It cant be an emotional deal it has to be business....

Hence the question; is it time to consider a mega type trade deal with the WA clubs? It would involve Cripps, Fisher and McGovern - what would we get back? The other option is we trade the farm (Cripps & co) to get back a bonanza we then try to trade to the Bulldogs and prise out Bontempelli and another proven performer who will fit our game style - what do we do?

Assuming we are looking at this clinically without emotional attachment. Is it the right time, or do we feel this is a temporary situation and we are confident Cripps is committed and will be so for life - and does he suit us going forward?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: WASurfer on March 30, 2021, 04:59:40 pm
Jack Martin and Zac Fisher both ruled out for up to 6 weeks!!!!

Can it get any worse for us in terms of injuries?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: townsendcalling on March 30, 2021, 05:07:05 pm
You can now be guaranteed that Cripps won’t be ‘managed’ this week with those 2 extra outs.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 30, 2021, 05:22:12 pm
You can now be guaranteed that Cripps won’t be ‘managed’ this week with those 2 extra outs.
And also some non performers will survive for another period of time.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: kruddler on March 30, 2021, 05:35:05 pm
2x Smallish, quick types out

I smell a return of LOB!  :o

Personally i'd go...
Fisher <-> Betts
Martin <-> Carroll

Add to that....
Casboult <-> McDonald
Willo <-> Stocker
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on March 30, 2021, 05:58:07 pm
Thanks too common sense for our imbecilic MC to contemplate.

Freo have a very hard midfield,  ours is as soft as.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: shawny on March 30, 2021, 07:15:36 pm
Cerra and Serong for Crippa?

Can you imagine us fielding a side next year without Cripps in the middle.

Seriously think about it. The only way imo it would even be considered is to get back 2 ready made mids.  Cant lose a bull like Cripps from the shallowest midfield in the comp and then replace him with 2 more kids that are still developing.
 
Already as it stands our midfield is lagging way behind were it should be - it has to be made instantly better to consider a swap of players - and getting more kids in regardless our much potential they have is too risky.

We just cannot afford to take any backward steps now.  Those rebuilding years of waiting patiently while developing a young midfield are well and truly over. 

IMO they should have been over 2 years ago.

 
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: JonDorotich on March 30, 2021, 08:52:27 pm
2x Smallish, quick types out

I smell a return of LOB!  :o

Personally i'd go...
Fisher <-> Betts
Martin <-> Carroll

Add to that....
Casboult <-> McDonald
Willo <-> Stocker

Need Cunningham back in. Certainty to come in with Martin and Fisher Out.

Betts and Cunningham will come in, Murphy will win a reprieve.

Stocker would be stiff to miss.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on March 30, 2021, 10:05:03 pm
No to Cunningham until he plays 5 ood games in a row in the twos.   Not a ten minute patch in two consecutive games...over his inconsistency. 
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on March 31, 2021, 12:54:37 am
Get used to being without Cripps next year, I read an article in the WestAustralian paper this morning about his girlfriend and her mental health battles. She has received a lot of hate mail from Carlton supporters about her relationship with him, some telling her to kill herself others saying he’s having an affair etc  She came across quite strongly saying she wouldn’t let the keyboard warriors get to her etc. His younger brother has also just overcome a knee injury and is playing with East Freo colts as a 19 year old overage player. When people say he’s from  the country not Perth, that’s just where the family farm is. He’s pretty comfy in Perth and East Freo is a nice spot on the river.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: bmaurizio on March 31, 2021, 02:07:37 am
If Cripps decides to leave the club , can’t begrudge the guy has given plenty on field throughout his 120 games, and if he can secure his future long term and be close to his family I wish well.
The club will be well rewarded  should  he leave, I’ve got no problem especially as 2021 will be another strong draft ,  it may be the best for all parties.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Micky0 on March 31, 2021, 08:42:35 am
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.perthnow.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/carlton-afl-star-patrick-cripps-partner-monique-fontana-reveals-shocking-cyber-bullying-after-ocd-reveal-ng-b881833351z.amp

Terrible.

If Cripps goes with of course you can’t begrudge him however success matters - if we pull our finger out and compete properly and make finals I’m
Sure that would change things.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 31, 2021, 09:24:39 am
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.perthnow.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/carlton-afl-star-patrick-cripps-partner-monique-fontana-reveals-shocking-cyber-bullying-after-ocd-reveal-ng-b881833351z.amp

Terrible.

If Cripps goes with of course you can’t begrudge him however success matters - if we pull our finger out and compete properly and make finals I’m
Sure that would change things.
That's horrendous behaviour, those online scumbags are not Carlton supporters, it's terrible his partner has had to endure that bullying and most would understand if he wanted out back to WA to support her.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on March 31, 2021, 10:08:47 am
That's horrendous behaviour, those online scumbags are not Carlton supporters, it's terrible his partner has had to endure that bullying and most would understand if he wanted out back to WA to support her.
I'm afraid I'm so cynical about the AFL based on what I have witnessed first hand at TAC Cup level, the bullying and stand over tactics used to get young players in out out of squads or teams, I wouldn't put it past some clubs and other organised groups to be doing this systematically in a way that is intended to encourage Cripps move back to WA.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on March 31, 2021, 10:44:35 am
I'm afraid I'm so cynical about the AFL based on what I have witnessed first hand at TAC Cup level, the bullying and stand over tactics used to get young players in out out of squads or teams, I wouldn't put it past some clubs and other organised groups to be doing this systematically in a way that is intended to encourage Cripps move back to WA.
Are you trying to say that someone at Freo or Eagles are deliberately targeting a vulnerable human being just recruit a football player? Keyboard heroes are everywhere sad part of life Cripps is out of contract can go when and where he likes maybe he’s like me and sick of the spin we get given every year on how we are going places how we have a great young list with potential how we have a great coaching staff how our fitness staff is the best blah blah blah. Every year I fall for the same fluffy pr get my hopes up only for us to finish bottom 6, maybe Cripps does too till we start the season and other teams have improved quicker than us so we are again left with honourable losses and could’ve won if...... speculation until he signs but wait for the classic “ the club and I are waiting until the end of the season to sit down but I’m happy and not going anywhere “ kiss of death
Big test this week cant blame injuries or unavailability they are worse off than us
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on March 31, 2021, 10:47:47 am
That's horrendous behaviour, those online scumbags are not Carlton supporters, it's terrible his partner has had to endure that bullying and most would understand if he wanted out back to WA to support her.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on March 31, 2021, 10:48:50 am
They are Carlton supporters rabid feral Carlton supporters and every club has them worldwide
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on March 31, 2021, 10:52:05 am
That's horrendous behaviour, those online scumbags are not Carlton supporters, it's terrible his partner has had to endure that bullying and most would understand if he wanted out back to WA to support her.

Agree, gutter behaviour from apologies for human beings.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on March 31, 2021, 11:20:30 am
I'm really confident that Crippa and Monique realise that these vile comments say much about the writer and nothing about Crippa and Monique. If anything, it'll simply make them closer.

Takes a lot of courage for Monique to go public about her anxiety disorder. Bravo.

Treatment and management of OCD has come a long way over the years. And people should be aware that when you have one particular anxiety disorder it often bleeds somewhat into other anxiety disorders. Someone with OCD may well also have some symptoms of GAD (Generalized Anxiety Disorder), or PAD (Panic Anxiety Disorder), or SAD (Social Anxiety Disorder)... and so on.

It's hard to imagine that there are creatures, disguised as humans, who walk among us, capable of such disgusting comments as those made to Monique.

Whenever I've shared on FB or other social media forums, my PTSD and associated details, I also get the odd weasel comment, which has obviously been fermented in the bile of ignorance.

Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: capcom on March 31, 2021, 11:21:01 am
Ahh, the downside sickness of facebook and twitter. 
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on March 31, 2021, 11:23:41 am
They are Carlton supporters rabid feral Carlton supporters and every club has them worldwide
I doubt you can assert what club they barrack for at all, those online identities are a masquerade, just another layer of fog like the anonymity offered by social media commentary.

It's too easy to start off with phrases like, "I barrack for X, but .......................... ", or "Normally I wouldn't comment, but ..............."

I think the minute anonymous personas declare an identity prior to an online tirade, you can almost guarantee the exact opposite identity.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on March 31, 2021, 01:13:54 pm
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/31/blues-leader-promises-response-after-frustrating-start/

Weitering says we'll see a response against Freo.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: WASurfer on March 31, 2021, 01:28:34 pm
6 months ago I would've put my house on Cripps staying at Carlton for the entirety of his career.....now, I'm not so sure. And who could begrudge him really? He's busted his @rse and carried the club for years without too much meaningful support....he's starved of success. If he decides to go, then hopefully it's similar to us and the Eagles when Judd chose Carlton....agreement was reached in a way and the Eagles respected his decision, but still drove a hard bargain.

And the situation with his partner only complicates it and he's totally within his rights to do what's best for him and her....some of that online stuff is just despicable.

That all said, Cripps will be giving it his all this week and every week for the club....you wouldn't expect anything less. It's about time a few others put their bodies on the line as well.

IN: McDonald, Betts, Kennedy, Stocker
OUT: Casboult, Martin, Fisher, Setterfield

Plowman probably survives because of the smaller Freo forward line. And Murphy probably only survives because of Martin going out.

If Silvagni is fit, then bring him in as well and probably drop Newnes....Silvagni can play off a wing and push into the middle and the forward line.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on March 31, 2021, 01:35:17 pm
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/31/blues-leader-promises-response-after-frustrating-start/

Weitering says we'll see a response against Freo.
I have no doubt he'll make the effort, even if he hasn't much more he can give, as long as he's not flying solo!
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 31, 2021, 02:36:41 pm
6 months ago I would've put my house on Cripps staying at Carlton for the entirety of his career.....now, I'm not so sure. And who could begrudge him really? He's busted his @rse and carried the club for years without too much meaningful support....he's starved of success. If he decides to go, then hopefully it's similar to us and the Eagles when Judd chose Carlton....agreement was reached in a way and the Eagles respected his decision, but still drove a hard bargain.

And the situation with his partner only complicates it and he's totally within his rights to do what's best for him and her....some of that online stuff is just despicable.

That all said, Cripps will be giving it his all this week and every week for the club....you wouldn't expect anything less. It's about time a few others put their bodies on the line as well.

IN: McDonald, Betts, Kennedy, Stocker
OUT: Casboult, Martin, Fisher, Setterfield

Plowman probably survives because of the smaller Freo forward line. And Murphy probably only survives because of Martin going out.

If Silvagni is fit, then bring him in as well and probably drop Newnes....Silvagni can play off a wing and push into the middle and the forward line.
SOS was only meant to be a week, seems to have trained well so should play and Newnes should be dropped.
I'd also drop Plow, he was totally terrible last week (and the week before really). The MC must make statements no matter if you are the captain or a rookie. We NEED to find the right mix who will perform for 4 qtrs every week. No more 15 minute cameos.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on March 31, 2021, 02:55:40 pm
We as a club need to start getting real with the non performing players. Start with the senior higher profile non-performers and put them on notice that their efforts have not been acceptable and if they don't meet standards on a consistent basis their careers with us will be at stake. This would definitely send a meaningful message from top down in the playing group in the short term.

This of course is only a tactical short term measure and not a substitute for getting the club sorted out properly and strategically.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: capcom on March 31, 2021, 02:58:17 pm
Agree .. Mr Plow out.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: madbluboy on March 31, 2021, 03:17:26 pm
Champion data says after 2 rounds we are the worst pressure side in the comp. Also two of our better pressure players are Fisher and Martin lol.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on March 31, 2021, 03:36:20 pm
Champion data says after 2 rounds we are the worst pressure side in the comp. Also two of our better pressure players are Fisher and Martin lol.

Our lack of pressure on the Pies was painful to watch. They were just going forward unopposed for long periods of the game.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on March 31, 2021, 03:37:25 pm
Champion data says after 2 rounds we are the worst pressure side in the comp. Also two of our better pressure players are Fisher and Martin lol.

That video I linked earlier shows that per 100 turnovers, we have conceded more points than all other teams. If you can't defend turnover, you're stuffed. Teague will need to get the balance right, because we can certainly kick a score. If we can sort out the defense off turnover allowing for easy goals, I don't think we're far off.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: WASurfer on March 31, 2021, 03:39:07 pm
GTC....Plowman was awful last week no doubt. But he wasn't helped by the total lack of pressure further up the field. Got sick of watching us turn it over up the field and then see it come back with easy kicks to a bloke on the lead or on his own. Freo have small forwards in Schultz and Switkowski are are relative no-names but are very dangerous....and that'll be even worse if Walters plays...they have enough midfield options even without Fyfe to be able to leave Walters forward. Realistically, who do we have to man those guys up? Saad probably gets one but he's better as a running half back. Williamson has been terrible.....SPS is simply not a half back and we're kidding ourselves trying to turn him into one. He'll just try to get separation and not shut a bloke down. We need Newman back ASAP and reckon Stocker deserves a crack at it. As little as he's done for us since we trade him in, Marchbank needs to get fit and get out there and stay injury free...he can be that 3rd tall option and can play on the smaller blokes as well.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on March 31, 2021, 03:43:12 pm
GTC....Plowman was awful last week no doubt. But he wasn't helped by the total lack of pressure further up the field..................................

Daniel Hoyne and David King were both pretty clear on this. No defence can do much when the ball comes in so effortlessly.  I don't think they blame Plowman, and they're right, and I think the coaches will see it that way as well.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on March 31, 2021, 03:48:12 pm
Teague's last job before he came to us was as the Crows forwards coach. There is IMO a clear connection between what he was doing there and what he's trying to do with us. But I think the first 2 rounds are a reality check. We don't have the firepower to kick big scores like the Crows did in 2017. We're not a 20 goal per game team, and an adjustment or recalibration is certainly on the cards. 
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on March 31, 2021, 04:12:02 pm
Can you imagine us fielding a side next year without Cripps in the middle.

Seriously think about it. The only way imo it would even be considered is to get back 2 ready made mids.  Cant lose a bull like Cripps from the shallowest midfield in the comp and then replace him with 2 more kids that are still developing.
 
Already as it stands our midfield is lagging way behind were it should be - it has to be made instantly better to consider a swap of players - and getting more kids in regardless our much potential they have is too risky.

We just cannot afford to take any backward steps now.  Those rebuilding years of waiting patiently while developing a young midfield are well and truly over. 

IMO they should have been over 2 years ago.

 

Two first rounders pays for Oliver.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: madbluboy on March 31, 2021, 04:16:45 pm
Last year was our best season for a while and Cripps was average.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on March 31, 2021, 04:23:10 pm
That video I linked earlier shows that per 100 turnovers, we have conceded more points than all other teams. If you can't defend turnover, you're stuffed. Teague will need to get the balance right, because we can certainly kick a score. If we can sort out the defense off turnover allowing for easy goals, I don't think we're far off.
So what is the root cause, do we think it's an Inside D50 problem or does the problem lay elsewhere, like a lack of defensive run from the Mids or the Forwards?

I can't help but recall Doc and sMurph or Simmo berating Cripps last year for not chasing the opposition after a midfield turnover. They really gave it to him out at CHB while the opposition setup for a shot on goal. Stuck in my memory, the old blokes berating the young captain. I think from the gestures they had expected him to insert himself between CHB and FB to fill a space.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on March 31, 2021, 05:25:18 pm
Daniel Hoyne and David King were both pretty clear on this. No defence can do much when the ball comes in so effortlessly.  I don't think they blame Plowman, and they're right, and I think the coaches will see it that way as well.

This has been a major problem for us for years and successive coaches have not been able to reallt fix it. We won't significantly improve our W/L ratio until it is fixed imo. Teague must address it pdq.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 31, 2021, 05:26:28 pm
Think its been in the media recently and on this forum that apart from Weitering and Jones our other defenders dont defend very well. We seem to have got obsessed with attack and run from defense and forgotten all about a defenders primary role.
Saad is the only one capable of doing both jobs IMO.  Docherty, Plowman and Williamson couldnt guard an elephant if it was trapped in a telephone box...
We can blame mids not getting back but those three players have been poor in both games and I think the likes of Newman, Stocker and even new boy Parks might be worth a try.
You look at Richmond and their mids really dont get back or chase that hard either, they just have boring defenders like Grimes, Astbury, Balta, Vlastuin and Broad who defend well...
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on March 31, 2021, 05:33:46 pm
So what is the root cause, do we think it's an Inside D50 problem or does the problem lay elsewhere, like a lack of defensive run from the Mids or the Forwards?

I can't help but recall Doc and sMurph or Simmo berating Cripps last year for not chasing the opposition after a midfield turnover. They really gave it to him out at CHB while the opposition setup for a shot on goal. Stuck in my memory, the old blokes berating the young captain. I think from the gestures they had expected him to insert himself between CHB and FB to fill a space.

My personal layperson's opinion is that the back 6 have been admirable in trying to keep out the marauding hordes. I think it's definitely a mids / forwards lack of pressure issue. The players' heads must be spinning with one coach doing the opposite of the previous one. Bolton started teaching defence and then added an attacking layer, Teague is now teaching all out attack and has to wind back and teach defence.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: WASurfer on March 31, 2021, 06:22:58 pm
Agree EB....prior to the start of the season, we were supposedly drowning in half backs and defensive options...we'd brought in Saad and question was "where do we fit them all in'? The injuries to Newman and Marchbank haven't helped. But Plowman has been terrible and Docherty is a shadow of the AA player from a few years ago. I think we cut him some slack last year after 2 full seasons out...but he hasn't improved...his decision making is ordinary and his kicking terrible. We've got blokes like him, Plowman, SPS and Jones who just continually butcher it coming out of the backline. Last week it was Saad and Williams who were the two best ball users, especially early on in the game.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 31, 2021, 07:24:59 pm
Daniel Hoyne and David King were both pretty clear on this. No defence can do much when the ball comes in so effortlessly.  I don't think they blame Plowman, and they're right, and I think the coaches will see it that way as well.
Thats just an excuse for defenders who don't know how to defend and we are full to pussy's bow of them. Midfield dominance isn't a new thing, ball has been streaming down the ground for eons, once upon a time there were (and we had plenty of them) defenders who could read the play coming their way and they could position themselves to get a fist in or heaven forbid, mark the thing. Like our team in general, our defenders are often asleep at the wheel because they thinking about more than beating, or stopping, their opponent. The good defenders don't worry about cheap possessions or getting involved in an attacking chain, they worry about making sure their man doesn't get a kick or has a very tough day at the office. I watched Plowman live last week and he was deadset asleep giving his opponent meters every single time. You can't see it on TV, it happens way before the cameras capture the ball about to be marked by the fwd. I understand team defence and mids have to do more when they don't have the footy, but as Bill Belichick says, "do your job". Plowman, SPS, Doc just don't do theirs way too often.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 31, 2021, 07:26:48 pm
Think its been in the media recently and on this forum that apart from Weitering and Jones our other defenders dont defend very well. We seem to have got obsessed with attack and run from defense and forgotten all about a defenders primary role.
Saad is the only one capable of doing both jobs IMO.  Docherty, Plowman and Williamson couldnt guard an elephant if it was trapped in a telephone box...
We can blame mids not getting back but those three players have been poor in both games and I think the likes of Newman, Stocker and even new boy Parks might be worth a try.
You look at Richmond and their mids really dont get back or chase that hard either, they just have boring defenders like Grimes, Astbury, Balta, Vlastuin and Broad who defend well...
EB I just read this and you are spot on, I posted just then about defenders not knowing how to defend.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on March 31, 2021, 07:35:09 pm
Thats just an excuse for defenders who don't know how to defend and we are full to pussy's bow of them. Midfield dominance isn't a new thing, ball has been streaming down the ground for eons, once upon a time there were (and we had plenty of them) defenders who could read the play coming their way and they could position themselves to get a fist in or heaven forbid, mark the thing. Like our team in general, our defenders are often asleep at the wheel because they thinking about more than beating, or stopping, their opponent. The good defenders don't worry about cheap possessions or getting involved in an attacking chain, they worry about making sure their man doesn't get a kick or has a very tough day at the office. I watched Plowman live last week and he was deadset asleep giving his opponent meters every single time. You can't see it on TV, it happens way before the cameras capture the ball about to be marked by the fwd. I understand team defence and mids have to do more when they don't have the footy, but as Bill Belichick says, "do your job". Plowman, SPS, Doc just don't do theirs way too often.

If you look at the numbers, and you look at Champion Data, the imputation is quite clear that the defensive problems are further up the ground. Plowman won't be dropped for the Freo game, and you have to ask why. Betts is being touted as an "in" and you have to ask why. Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 31, 2021, 10:53:25 pm
If you look at the numbers, and you look at Champion Data, the imputation is quite clear that the defensive problems are further up the ground. Plowman won't be dropped for the Freo game, and you have to ask why. Betts is being touted as an "in" and you have to ask why. Just my 2 cents.
Matthew Lloyd going through exactly what I posted on FC now!

He has defenders that are winners, losers and jury is out

Winners (smart defenders who coped with rule changes)
Howe
Grimes
Moore
May

Losers (poor defenders who didn't cope with rule changes)
Plowman
Davis
Kolodjashnij
Gardner
Hartigan

Jury's Out (50/50)
Alir
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 01, 2021, 07:17:50 am
Matthew Lloyd going through exactly what I posted on FC now!

He has defenders that are winners, losers and jury is out

Winners (smart defenders who coped with rule changes)
Howe
Grimes
Moore
May

Losers (poor defenders who didn't cope with rule changes)
Plowman
Davis
Kolodjashnij
Gardner
Hartigan

Jury's Out (50/50)
Alir

This argument is becoming rather formless and shapeless, and I don't really know what exactly we're discussing. Are are discussing whole careers, this season, just the R2 game etc. ?

Lloyd's statement linking what he sees as poor form with "coping / not coping with rule changes" is bizarre. Other than just creative licence designed to stir the pot, I can't see how he would make that claim. There are many on here who will tell you that Plowman was crap the minute he walked in the door, so the rule changes should not make a difference.

I'd be very keen to see the midfield and forward pressure numbers for the "winners" category. I would bet London to a brick that the pressure numbers for those teams would be higher than ours.

I'm not suggesting Plowman is a gun or free from all blame. But the amount of crap he cops is out of proportion to the reality.

We should just agree to disagree and move on.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 01, 2021, 07:37:14 am
We're drifting off topic here, but Plowman's output compares favourably with both Darcy Moore and Dylan Grimes :

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=A&tid2=15&type=A&pid1=3797&pid2=3383&fid1=C&fid2=C

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=A&tid2=5&type=A&pid1=3797&pid2=4023&fid1=C&fid2=C
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 01, 2021, 08:02:18 am
We're drifting off topic here, but Plowman's output compares favourably with both Darcy Moore and Dylan Grimes :
Yep he's not bad like the fans make out, but his last two games were a bit ordinary, then again at least half his team-mates can raise a hand to that one!

A few big impacts for us this season, quite a few kids, new look team, lost experience, no many runners, and we do not have a self-coaching list strong in natural footballers!
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 01, 2021, 08:15:18 am
Yep he's not bad like the fans make out, but his last two games were a bit ordinary, then again at least half his team-mates can raise a hand to that one!
...........................................

I'd say pretty much the entire team has been patchy - some good passages of play, and some awful. When and if we tighten up the defensive structures, without sacrificing too much attacking flair, we will see better outcomes. But those defensive issues definitely need urgent rectification.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 01, 2021, 08:19:31 am
I'd say pretty much the entire team has been patchy - some good passages of play, and some awful. When and if we tighten up the defensive structures, without sacrificing too much attacking flair, we will see better outcomes. But those defensive issues definitely need urgent rectification.
As long as fans realise they can't really demand more from the D50 crew outside of being cleaner with the football. Like yourself I see the lack of pressure on transition primarily as a failing of our midfield and forwards.

But I fear when most fans read we need to improve defence they think of Jones, SPS and Plowman, especially this season! They'll come good, when the opposition no longer have free reign through the corridor, we only have to slow the opposition marginally and our guys in D50 will then have time to close the gap! I'm afraid at the moment, when playing against Carlton, there is an attacking turnover superhighway right through the middle of the ground available to the opposition 24x7!
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 01, 2021, 09:07:37 am
We're drifting off topic here, but Plowman's output compares favourably with both Darcy Moore and Dylan Grimes :

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=A&tid2=15&type=A&pid1=3797&pid2=3383&fid1=C&fid2=C

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=A&tid2=5&type=A&pid1=3797&pid2=4023&fid1=C&fid2=C
Those stats don't tell you how many goals he gives away or how he gets beat up in one on one's. We all have seen it and now the media have seen it and other teams will continue to isolate him and play through his man IMHO.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: capcom on April 01, 2021, 09:11:17 am
Plowman can be reliable ... at times ... but he's slow off the mark.  Last week, he failed to see hand signals coming upfield (e.g. Martin to Riewoldt) and left flat footed, easily beaten.

You MUST watch opponent's feet and at the right moment.  And yes, it's not entirely his fault, but he has to take some blame.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 01, 2021, 10:06:36 am
Plowman can be reliable ... at times ... but he's slow off the mark.  Last week, he failed to see hand signals coming upfield (e.g. Martin to Riewoldt) and left flat footed, easily beaten.

You MUST watch opponent's feet and at the right moment.  And yes, it's not entirely his fault, but he has to take some blame.
What if you are left watching two or three pairs of feet, because your mids and forwards hang outside D50 waiting for a cheap possession?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: capcom on April 01, 2021, 10:11:41 am
@LP ... I meant HIS direct opponent ... only takes a split second.  He was under the gun that's for sure.   
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 01, 2021, 10:19:11 am
@LP ... I meant HIS direct opponent ... only takes a split second.  He was under the gun that's for sure.   
It doesn't matter who your direct opponent is when you are left guarding 2 or 3. Sooner or later you have to pick an opponent and move towards one of them, and you have to watch the ball user to decide that early enough and hope they pull the trigger early, not your opponent.

More than anything this highlights Nthmond's better F50 skills and organisation than our own forwards. Our guys all run to the fall of the ball bringing defenders with them, Nthmond lead people away to create an extra numbers and space leaving defenders with too much ground to cover.

I've discussed before how Nthmonds small forwards offer Riewoldt or other talls checks and blocks, while our smalls forwards hang back contact free and leave our KPFs contesting against 2 or 3. I realise if umpired to the rules of the game our defenders should get free kicks for being shepherded well off the ball, but the game isn't umpired to the rules so there is no point complaining.

It's not the defenders fault, they can't do more than they already do and Martin doesn't waste the footy kicking it to a outnumbered team-mates like we do! He just bides his time then waits to see which way everybody runs.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 01, 2021, 10:20:47 am
Those stats don't tell you how many goals he gives away or how he gets beat up in one on one's. We all have seen it and now the media have seen it and other teams will continue to isolate him and play through his man IMHO.

I'm no fan of the "eyes test" and I think the  media long ago abandoned analysis in favour of lazy cherry picking, pandering to the prejudices of noisy fans. Folks with outdated ideas will tell you that the eyes are objective, and see "what is there", but I don't think that's right. In a complex situation like football analysis, the eyes will see what your biases, preferences etc. guide them to see. We all watched the "reality" of the R2 Blues v Pies game, yet we see different things. How can that be ? Do some of us need a visit to Specsavers ?

The Pies had 48 Inside 50's, but only took 13 marks I50. If, as you say, the ball was always directed to Plowman's opponent, how can we account for this discrepancy ? Plowman had 91% game time, so he was out there virtually the whole game. 87 AFL fantasy points places him third for the night.

Quite apart from any of that, you'd be lucky to find any defenders that have prevailed in a 1-on-1 with DeGoey. The ball was coming in almost as if our mids and forwards weren't on the field.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 01, 2021, 10:27:11 am
Plowman had 10 marks for the night, the most of any player. He had 4 intercept marks, placing him 2nd behind Darcy Moore, and equal with Jones.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 01, 2021, 10:28:25 am
I'm no fan of the "eyes test" and I think the  media long ago abandoned analysis in favour of lazy cherry picking, pandering to the prejudices of noisy fans. Folks with outdated ideas will tell you that the eyes are objective, and see "what is there", but I don't think that's right.
I agree, especially I'm afraid when that seeing comes via the TV, with a limited field of view and the influence of the commentators.

Fans do not realise the commentators comment off small screens in front of them, not through the binoculars commonly seen in promotions. They do this deliberately so they comment on what viewers see.

Radio is often a more reliable source, but in the COVID era many of those broadcasts are also from a sound studio watching the broadcast.

At the ground the game looks so different.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: madbluboy on April 01, 2021, 10:31:16 am
Plowman had 10 marks for the night, the most of any player. He had 4 intercept marks, placing him 2nd behind Darcy Moore, and equal with Jones.

They didn't concede 7 or 8 goals.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: capcom on April 01, 2021, 10:33:22 am
It doesn't matter who your direct opponent is when you are left guarding 2 or 3. Sooner or later you have to pick an opponent and move towards one of them, and you have to watch the ball user to decide that early enough and hope they pull the trigger early, not your opponent.

You're missing my point .... he wasn't guarding two or three, he had responsibility for one.  And so it passes to other defenders to do theirs.  Fly and punch to contested swarms when necessary, sure, but one on one, he wasn't up to it.  Too slow on the uptake
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 01, 2021, 10:38:21 am
You're missing my point .... he wasn't guarding two or three, he had responsibility for one.  And so it passes to other defenders to do theirs.  Fly and punch to contested swarms when necessary, sure, but one on one, he wasn't up to it.  Too slow on the uptake
What part of the ground where you watching from, the angle you viewed?

On the replay there was a wide shot as the commentators reviewed the play, I can't recall if it was during the quarter or in the post match, but just as Dusty kicks the camera cuts wide and it shows Plowman stuck between Nthmond players, they split in different directions and Plowman is momentarily left not knowing which way to go. Plowman's choice is a roll of the dice.

If I was our coach, I'd be asking a much much harder question, how Riewoldt is left with 20m of clear free space to lead into inside F50 from the slow set F50 entry? What you might see if we got all the angles, and I can't confirm this, would be several of our Mids running to the bench when they should be defending. I've seen this over and over again at the ground in recent years, it's amateur at best. Our defenders are left guessing against multiple opponents, and when they guess wrong they look like a goose!
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on April 01, 2021, 10:58:59 am
Good to see that Luke Parks has been named to definitely play on Sunday... out Willo?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on April 01, 2021, 11:08:46 am
They didn't concede 7 or 8 goals.

So did Moore but he conceded 4. Can't be conceding 4 or 7 goals no matter how well you play as a defender. Stopping your opponent scoring is the first responsibility. Moore saved alot but Harry's 4 goals helped keep us in it when we shouldn't have been.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: madbluboy on April 01, 2021, 11:13:24 am
So did Moore but he conceded 4. Can't be conceding 4 or 7 goals no matter how well you play as a defender. Stopping your opponent scoring is the first responsibility. Moore saved alot but Harry's 4 goals helped keep us in it when we shouldn't have been.

I thought Harry and Moore had a great contest, both played well but I think McKay took the honours..

Plowman was smashed by everyone he played on. I'm not canning the bloke, he tried his best but he just isn't good enough.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 01, 2021, 11:15:40 am
I thought Harry and Moore had a great contest, both played well but I think McKay took the honours..
Really? :o

I think Moore was probably BoG, and triggered multiple chains of play that created a significant portion of the Filth's goals.

Some of Big H's goals were effectively Dorothy Dixers.

For reference (AFLCA);
9 - Taylor Adams (COLL)
8 - Darcy Moore (COLL)
7 - Jack Crisp (COLL)
2 - Brodie Grundy (COLL)
2 - Jordan De Goey (COLL)
2 - Scott Pendlebury (COLL)
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 01, 2021, 11:22:44 am
Good to see that Luke Parks has been named to definitely play on Sunday... out Willo?
Hard to say, having lost two already you wouldn't think there would be many more changes, I think if you get to 3 or 5 changes in a week you are basically expecting to lose.

SoJ probably deserves to return, if he passes a fitness test. Maybe sMurph out for Betts, I think it's quite probably those two will swap places on and off during the season. But with Fisher already out perhaps Betts is in an sMurph stays.

So maybe Williamson for SoJ?

Be interesting to see how Parks goes against the much heavier bodies of the AFL, his highlights suggest he plays in quite a combative style throwing himself at the footy not unlike Hunter.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: townsendcalling on April 01, 2021, 11:24:58 am
Now there’s one from left field!!

‘ CARLTON will blood its fourth club debutant in three games this Sunday.

Confirmed by Senior Coach David Teague on Thursday, rookie Luke Parks will become Blue No.1222 when he runs out against Fremantle.’
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: madbluboy on April 01, 2021, 11:27:42 am
I said Moore played well but so did Harry.

Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 01, 2021, 11:59:00 am
They didn't concede 7 or 8 goals.

You can't let the accuracy or otherwise of the goal kicker colour your perception of the defenders. If Moore had four goals kicked on him, and Plowman 7 behinds, does that mean Plowman did a better job ? Surely what happens after the defender has been outpointed is beyond his control, as is what happens further up the ground. 
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 01, 2021, 12:00:19 pm
At any rate, if what the majority on here say is true, then Plowman should be dropped, which should be easy seeing as how we have 8000 backmen, defenders, HBF, etc.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 01, 2021, 12:04:40 pm
Luke Parks is apparently an intercept defender, so Plowman might be out.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: WASurfer on April 01, 2021, 12:37:26 pm
As ordinary as Plowman has been, I think it'll be Williamson that gets the chop this week.....Freo have some dangerous small forwards, especially if Walters comes back in....Williamson isn't a lock down sort and has been caught out for having no right foot too many times. I'd be getting Kennedy in to play midfield this week and give Cripps some support....he's not getting any from the likes of Setterfield....and Kennedy can push forward and mark/kick goals.

Glad that Parks is getting a shot at it but have to wonder what Stocker needs to do to get a game.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Thryleon on April 01, 2021, 01:01:44 pm
Id rather plowman play.  We are short bodies. 
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 01, 2021, 01:24:06 pm
Id rather plowman play.  We are short bodies. 
Parks is a rough tough dude, his marking is his strength, just concerned Freo are more of a quick moving team
and not sure that suits Parks. His kicking is talked about as being reliable but he has a ball drop that isnt great for making kicks quickly and I hope the speed of the game doesnt prove too much for him.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on April 01, 2021, 02:05:55 pm
Hard to say, having lost two already you wouldn't think there would be many more changes, I think if you get to 3 or 5 changes in a week you are basically expecting to lose.

SoJ probably deserves to return, if he passes a fitness test. Maybe sMurph out for Betts, I think it's quite probably those two will swap places on and off during the season. But with Fisher already out perhaps Betts is in an sMurph stays.

So maybe Williamson for SoJ?

Be interesting to see how Parks goes against the much heavier bodies of the AFL, his highlights suggest he plays in quite a combative style throwing himself at the footy not unlike Hunter.

Our selection committee is very conservative, although a number of players deserve the chop owing to poor defensive pressure from previous outings.

SOJ, Betts & Parks for Martin, Fisher and Willo. Though if we were fair-dinkum, Casboult would also get the chop for, maybe a Kennedy.



Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 01, 2021, 02:21:01 pm
Our selection committee is very conservative, although a number of players deserve the chop owing to poor defensive pressure from previous outings.

SOJ, Betts & Parks for Martin, Fisher and Willo. Though if we were fair-dinkum, Casboult would also get the chop for, maybe a Kennedy.




Nah they're all playing well, just down on luck.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 01, 2021, 02:26:01 pm
We should all wish Luke Parks all the very best for his debut. Hopefully we will unearth a real player who will have a long and successful career with us.

Best of luck "LP." ;D
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: sydneybluesfan on April 01, 2021, 06:11:27 pm
Couldn't be more excited - Luke is from my local club.

You won't hear anyone say a bad word about the kid - wasn't a super star as a junior but a a very hard working kid. Went thru the Swans Academy but they didn't rate him at draft time [they took Will Gould from Glenelg who is yet to play] so he luckily went to SA just before Covid lockdown hit to play SANFL at Glenelg to follow his dream. He's a talented intercept marker with good disposal and decision making who has grown physically a lot since his draft year. Will probably keep growing for another few years in a full time professional environment. He has done it hard way.

Think of him as a young Phil Davis. He brings a point of difference as he is a type of player [apart from maybe Caleb Marchbank] that we don't have and could sorely do with. Go well young fella - fingers crossed it is the first of many.........
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 01, 2021, 06:16:11 pm
Nice post sbf.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: bricky on April 01, 2021, 06:16:52 pm
Maybe SPS forward and Parks takes his spot
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: sydneybluesfan on April 01, 2021, 06:53:26 pm
Maybe SPS forward and Parks takes his spot
Will be interesting to see what they do - he's unlikely to be an interchange player due to his role so you would think they are picking him to play as the sub. And you wouldn't think he would be the sub either?

I would think he replaces either Willo or Plowman as the 3rd tall. Freo are quite small and fast so I wouldn't think he is a swap for SPS.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 01, 2021, 06:58:17 pm
Ch7 showed Coach Teague roasting the players at training for not training with intent. Smashed em also at the Monday review apparently. I'd imagine the club Psychs will be busy this week with players as that's not the done thing anymore with the new generation.
What worries me (doesn't surprise me though) is its Thurs training and they still havent responded to last weeks showing or trained to the expectations fo the coach.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Lods on April 01, 2021, 07:05:32 pm
That's all I want to see this week.
Come ready to play with a bit of pressure and intensity....and show effort.

I think that was the disappointing aspect of the Collingwood game and that's what's caused most of the angst this week.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: capcom on April 01, 2021, 07:19:15 pm
Ch7 showed Coach Teague roasting the players at training for not training with intent. Smashed em also at the Monday review apparently.

'bout time. 
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: kruddler on April 01, 2021, 07:25:49 pm
Ch7 showed Coach Teague roasting the players at training for not training with intent. Smashed em also at the Monday review apparently. I'd imagine the club Psychs will be busy this week with players as that's not the done thing anymore with the new generation.
What worries me (doesn't surprise me though) is its Thurs training and they still havent responded to last weeks showing or trained to the expectations fo the coach.

If a bake won't get them up, and a bad review won't get them up, then maybe kicking the dew of the ground in the reserves is the trick.

Parks in suggests he is happy to make some moves. He's hinted at Eddie returning too.
I'd be looking to add at least 2 more blokes. If he wants people to have a go, bring in Cottrell and Silvagni.
Bite the bullet and give Oscar backup duties and tell Casboult if he can't run and chase, he doesn't play again.

We can pick a couple changes and hope, or we can go full scorched earth and enforce change.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: townsendcalling on April 01, 2021, 08:03:28 pm
Casboult in serious doubt, knee wise. They have the perfect out to give him a rest. Good game for Parks to debut. Winnable game, friendly crowd on a ground that favors a marking player. Could be a ‘master selection’ by Austin if young Luke produces the goods!!
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: capcom on April 01, 2021, 08:11:50 pm
If he's half as good as another champ that wore #26, I'll grab it.  Give him game time
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 01, 2021, 09:05:19 pm
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/marc-murphy-set-to-retain-spot-as-carlton-face-must-win-clash-20210401-p57g0b.html

According to this article, Murph a very good chance to retain his spot.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LoveNavy on April 01, 2021, 10:57:41 pm
Get used to being without Cripps next year, I read an article in the WestAustralian paper this morning about his girlfriend and her mental health battles. She has received a lot of hate mail from Carlton supporters about her relationship with him, some telling her to kill herself others saying he’s having an affair etc  She came across quite strongly saying she wouldn’t let the keyboard warriors get to her etc. His younger brother has also just overcome a knee injury and is playing with East Freo colts as a 19 year old overage player. When people say he’s from  the country not Perth, that’s just where the family farm is. He’s pretty comfy in Perth and East Freo is a nice spot on the river.

That faceless abuse is disgusting.
I wonder how supported the couple feel at CFC. Certainly hope the support is first class and that Mon can indeed ignore it.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LoveNavy on April 01, 2021, 11:06:53 pm
Walters to return according to WA news report.
If so, who plays on him?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: madbluboy on April 02, 2021, 05:52:58 am
Walters to return according to WA news report.
If so, who plays on him?

Plowman
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on April 02, 2021, 12:18:53 pm
Ch7 showed Coach Teague roasting the players at training for not training with intent. Smashed em also at the Monday review apparently. I'd imagine the club Psychs will be busy this week with players as that's not the done thing anymore with the new generation.
What worries me (doesn't surprise me though) is its Thurs training and they still havent responded to last weeks showing or trained to the expectations fo the coach.

Might be just one thing and the coach was giving them a reminder.

Reading a post from an Bullants supporter back in Teague's day. He used to be inside the rooms. Said while it looked like Teague was mild mannered outside, inside the 4 walls could really make the paint tear off the walls when they didn't perform to expectations.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on April 02, 2021, 12:21:25 pm
Watch the video of Parks being told of his selection. Based on purely how hard he competes (and a bit of form of course). Teague emphasised this point quite a few times.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 02, 2021, 12:30:44 pm
Watch the video of Parks being told of his selection. Based on purely how hard he competes (and a bit of form of course). Teague emphasised this point quite a few times.
You can tell Teague is over weak non aggressive performers who want to play pretty boy football only but wont get their hands dirty and wants more mongrel in the backline.
Think he is getting the message that 22 Von Trapp kids wont get it done and we need some players who will bleed for the jumper.
Good luck to the kid and hope we have found a diamond in the rough.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on April 02, 2021, 12:36:19 pm
You can tell Teague is over weak non aggressive performers who want to play pretty boy football only but wont get their hands dirty and wants more mongrel in the backline.
Think he is getting the message that 22 Von Trapp kids wont get it done and we need some players who will bleed for the jumper.
Good luck to the kid and hope we have found a diamond in the rough.

And with that they all repaired for yet another screening of "The Sound of Music".........
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 02, 2021, 05:54:35 pm
You can tell Teague is over weak non aggressive performers who want to play pretty boy football only but wont get their hands dirty and wants more mongrel in the backline.
Think he is getting the message that 22 Von Trapp kids wont get it done and we need some players who will bleed for the jumper.
Good luck to the kid and hope we have found a diamond in the rough.
Teague was seen slapping the players with wet lettuce leaves at trying yesterday, should fire them up for Sundays game. Mate he is responsible for the Von Trapp kids non agressive performance. He's had a whole pre season to drum aggressiveness into them and they dish up that v the Filth? And on the Thurs before the next game, he is still hammering them about training with intent? His message aint getting through it seems.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on April 02, 2021, 06:22:05 pm
Teague was seen slapping the players with wet lettuce leaves at trying yesterday, should fire them up for Sundays game. Mate he is responsible for the Von Trapp kids non agressive performance. He's had a whole pre season to drum aggressiveness into them and they dish up that v the Filth? And on the Thurs before the next game, he is still hammering them about training with intent? His message aint getting through it seems.

Thought the same thing, GTC.

How come this is a focus ...NOW! Why are we STILL so damn reactive? Is there anyone in the place with vision, initiative and foresight - in other words, prepare the side to be a ruthless team before the season starts. Ah, yes, ruthless... we talk it better than anyone, but do the players know what it REALLY means to be ruthless? The sacrifices? The mongrel persistence? The uncompromising attitude to take into every single contest? The powerful standards to uphold as if it were your life depended on it? Sheesh... well, better late than never, and, as ever, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating over an extended period. But, it does start with this Sunday. Here's hoping. I'll be watching with a near exhausted optimism.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 02, 2021, 06:35:13 pm
Thought the same thing, GTC.

How come this is a focus ...NOW! Why are we STILL so damn reactive? Is there anyone in the place with vision, initiative and foresight - in other words, prepare the side to be a ruthless team before the season starts. Ah, yes, ruthless... we talk it better than anyone, but do the players know what it REALLY means to be ruthless? The sacrifices? The mongrel persistence? The uncompromising attitude to take into every single contest? The powerful standards to uphold as if it were your life depended on it? Sheesh... well, better late than never, and, as ever, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating over an extended period. But, it does start with this Sunday. Here's hoping. I'll be watching with a near exhausted optimism.
Indeed Ol Boy, why? Why, why, why? The same things over and over again ever year, why?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 02, 2021, 06:42:03 pm
Coach and leadership set the example on and off the field. Cripps and Docherty are both struggling, we really don't have an on field catalyst to initiate more mongrel and aggression when required.
I'm watching Nth v dogs and same deal no leadership, Cunnington is cooked and Zeibell is at half rat power, they just cannot  get anyone to steady the ship or fire them up.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 02, 2021, 06:52:10 pm
Our on field leaders have been on a spectrum from average to poor for ages. Starting with Kouta, Lappin, Whitnall etc. undermining Pagan. Remember the Ratten wristbands, "harden the f*&k up" ? Remember the tackling to hurt at training ? Remember Bolton getting the players to jostle and harass Ablett Jr in one of the GC games ? None of it seems to stick.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on April 02, 2021, 06:58:08 pm
Is it actually possible to change the nature of the beast. The old adage was "if you want people to change, you gotta change the people". Can this be true??
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: capcom on April 02, 2021, 07:23:34 pm
"On your feet or on your knees"  ... Blue Oyster Cult 1975. 

Seems some of ours prefer "Born to be mild"

Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 02, 2021, 07:52:01 pm
"On your feet or on your knees"  ... Blue Oyster Cult 1975. 

Seems some of ours prefer "Born to be mild"


BOC were/are a great band, Buck Dharma a very under rated axeman and of course Dont Fear the Reaper a classic track.
Graham Bonnet springs to mind during games with "Its all over now Baby Blue"..😫
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: capcom on April 02, 2021, 08:02:12 pm
One of the best album / LP covers in rock history
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 02, 2021, 08:25:11 pm
One of the best album / LP covers in rock history
Liked the cover for "Some enchanted evening", Astronomy the live version has a great guitar solo..
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LoveNavy on April 02, 2021, 08:56:00 pm
"(We are) playing at (Marvel Stadium), fast deck, against a team that moves the ball probably the fastest in the AFL, and some of the best ball movement in the AFL," Longmuir said.

This from Longmuir ⬆️ afl website

Can you believe he's talking about Carlton 🤔
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: madbluboy on April 02, 2021, 09:24:19 pm
We are quick but have lost two of our fastest players in Martin and Fisher.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: townsendcalling on April 02, 2021, 11:06:49 pm
Why are we favourites for this one??  $1.48 vs $2.67??
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Thryleon on April 03, 2021, 06:44:39 am
Why are we favourites for this one??  $1.48 vs $2.67??

Not sure but it might be due to exposed form of our teams and our opposition.    The pies are turning out to be a tough opponent this year, Richmond are the reigning premiers and we were in both of those matches until about half way into the final quarter. 

Freo are missing a few star players to injury, they have had a 5 goal loss to Melbourne here in round one, back to Perth for round 2 against gws who look a spent force, and now fly back to Melbourne for round 3.  On travel alone we get a slight advantage.  Minus fyfe, walters, Logue, lobb, hill and Hamling theyre without a fair chunk of their walk up starts in each line.

A true sign we have to take the next step is that we shouldn't be going in heavy favourites if they were at full strength but really, they are a relative question mark so on exposed form and availability the betting odds are probably right to favour us.

Im no expert here but as people wager the odds shift too so I think its right that we are going in favourites and a bit of money must be coming our way to be much shorter.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on April 03, 2021, 09:20:49 am
BOC were/are a great band, Buck Dharma a very under rated axeman and of course Dont Fear the Reaper a classic track.
Graham Bonnet springs to mind during games with "Its all over now Baby Blue"..😫


Sorry for off topic, but wow... EB1, top shelf comments re BOC! Don't Fear the Reaper... gotta be in the top 10 of opening guitar riffs ever... Buck is still wowing them. Not sure if this comment will make sense, re BOC, but... "I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell."
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 10:27:19 am
Why are we favourites for this one??  $1.48 vs $2.67??

I think the favourites tag is fair enough, but those odds suggest a gap between the teams that's a bit much IMO.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: townsendcalling on April 03, 2021, 12:22:50 pm
How does
Out  Williamson (omitted) Martin, Fisher
In     Betts, Silvagni, Parks
sound??

Seems to be the word around Ikon today.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on April 03, 2021, 12:30:10 pm
Poor.  Lost pace and run.   But Parks for Williamson is a plus.   FIIK how casboult, Murphy and Setterfield survive after the past two weeks.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 12:33:01 pm
How does
Out  Williamson (omitted) Martin, Fisher
In     Betts, Silvagni, Parks
sound??

Seems to be the word around Ikon today.

Parks for Williamson is hard to call. Betts and Silvagni bring a few tricks of their own, but even with that I still think overall the team is weaker with those changes.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on April 03, 2021, 12:34:36 pm
I'm with the Professory on his comments.

Our senior coach speaks of people earning their places in the side / to wear the Navy Blue, yet those 3 get to front up again - if the word around PP is accurate.

McDonald for Casboult and Kennedy for Setterfield for mine. Murphy last chance.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on April 03, 2021, 12:37:38 pm
Sometimes the talk of 'fast' can be deceiving. There are blokes who might not cover the grass quickly but make up for it with quick and smart decision making. And FFS give Ed a lockdown role, his turnovers are just too costly.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: shawny on April 03, 2021, 12:50:13 pm
Huge game early in the season in my opinion. Have 2 winnable games then 2 games against top 4 teams so just have to bank the next 2.
Wont be easy but if we are the team on the rise we all think we are must account for them tomorrow on our home deck.
There was excuses in the first 2 rounds. There is none this week.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on April 03, 2021, 01:04:48 pm
If we are fair dinkum this game must be a turning point for us. I am not really interested in a one-off win however good. We need to sustain ongoing an intensive, pressure laden playing style to be considered anywhere near a side with a future of success.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 01:10:44 pm
Huge game early in the season in my opinion. Have 2 winnable games then 2 games against top 4 teams so just have to bank the next 2.
Wont be easy but if we are the team on the rise we all think we are must account for them tomorrow on our home deck.
There was excuses in the first 2 rounds. There is none this week.

Yes, agree. I'm not super confident, but we should have enough firepower and motivation to get the job done. I'm not looking for a demolition job. Even if we just fall over the line, I'll just be happy to bank the 4 points, and focus on next week.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on April 03, 2021, 01:31:40 pm
Williamson, Stocker, Kennedy, Cunningham, OMac, LOB, McGovern all playing in the twos today.

Betts, Murphy, JSOS and Casboult aren't so guessing they are in the seniors.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on April 03, 2021, 01:40:37 pm
Williamson, Stocker, Kennedy, Cunningham, OMac, LOB, McGovern all playing in the twos today.

Betts, Murphy, JSOS and Casboult aren't so guessing they are in the seniors.

Cottrell?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on April 03, 2021, 01:42:34 pm
Cottrell?

Cottrell isn't out there either. Wonder if he'll be the sub.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 03, 2021, 02:02:16 pm
Yes, agree. I'm not super confident, but we should have enough firepower and motivation to get the job done. I'm not looking for a demolition job. Even if we just fall over the line, I'll just be happy to bank the 4 points, and focus on next week.

I think we need to beat Freo well to show we are progressing, to just fall over the line in a home game vs a very non descript team coached by a rookie is kidding ourselves we are any good.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on April 03, 2021, 02:07:16 pm
Cottrell isn't out there either. Wonder if he'll be the sub.

Tnx Jim.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on April 03, 2021, 02:08:05 pm
Williamson, Stocker, Kennedy, Cunningham, OMac, LOB, McGovern all playing in the twos today.

Betts, Murphy, JSOS and Casboult aren't so guessing they are in the seniors.


What idiot decided the Vfl would start a month after the AFL?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 02:15:23 pm
Fantasy talk : Luke Parks becomes our Jeremy McGovern.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 02:18:01 pm
I think we need to beat Freo well to show we are progressing, to just fall over the line in a home game vs a very non descript team coached by a rookie is kidding ourselves we are any good.

I just want a win on the board to steady the ship. And a few signs that we have addressed our defensive issues.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Milhanna13 on April 03, 2021, 02:46:35 pm
Williamson, Stocker, Kennedy, Cunningham, OMac, LOB, McGovern all playing in the twos today.

Betts, Murphy, JSOS and Casboult aren't so guessing they are in the seniors.

So what’s that?
Martin, fisher, Williamson (and Omac sub) out
Betts, JSos, parks (and cottrel sub) in
??
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on April 03, 2021, 02:52:40 pm
hope teague makes our lads watch the way the Swans are going about it....

(before tomorrow)
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on April 03, 2021, 03:01:09 pm
So what’s that?
Martin, fisher, Williamson (and Omac sub) out
Betts, JSos, parks (and cottrel sub) in
??
That's the way I read it.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on April 03, 2021, 03:02:12 pm
We beat Willy in the practice match. 102-77 after being down 36-49 at half time. Gov kicked 3.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on April 03, 2021, 03:05:19 pm
hope teague makes our lads watch the way the Swans are going about it....

(before tomorrow)

Watching the Swans today makes me very envious. This is what I expected us to become and God knows we've been trying long enough. From what I've seen so far we are miles away.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on April 03, 2021, 03:17:48 pm
Watching the Swans today makes me very envious. This is what I expected us to become and God knows we've been trying long enough. From what I've seen so far we are miles away.
Not so much miles away, we don't work hard enough on a consistent basis. Embedded over the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on April 03, 2021, 03:36:37 pm
Not so much miles away, we don't work hard enough on a consistent basis. Embedded over the last 20 years.

That worries me Jim. Not working hard enough for 20 years sounds like a very serious problem that will be extremely hard to fix.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on April 03, 2021, 03:41:25 pm
Not so much miles away, we don't work hard enough on a consistent basis. Embedded over the last 20 years.

Yep,I'm envious.....

Good on the swans.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Milhanna13 on April 03, 2021, 03:41:59 pm
hope teague makes our lads watch the way the Swans are going about it....

(before tomorrow)

Shows what a good culture and good system can do.  Big turnover in players, doesn’t matter, just keep the course. 

Longmire, Clarkson (as much as I hate him) and Hardwick (don’t like him much either) bloody good at it. Set the culture and almost doesn’t matter the cattle you have
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on April 03, 2021, 03:42:57 pm
That worries me Jim. Not working hard enough for 20 years sounds like a very serious problem that will be extremely hard to fix.

It certainly has been. Become a habit. That's the tough task for our coach. Made us very competitive but we lose too many by not switching on too often.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on April 03, 2021, 03:47:47 pm
Yep.   A bunch of kids and no names flogs the reigning premier.   Meanwhile we're neck deep in the same old ordure. Because their culture is first class and our I'd a deadset joke.

Sorry,  but playing the likes of Murphy is just prolonging the pain and epitomises our entrenched problems.   Gotta rip the band aid off and start afresh,  not keeping going back to the same old well.   It hasn't been good enough for 15 years,  why stick with the same names?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on April 03, 2021, 03:48:04 pm
It certainly has been. Become a habit. That's the tough task for our coach. Made us very competitive but we lose too many by not switching on too often.

Murphy needs to be only played in 'easy' games if our objective is to nurse him to 300.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 03, 2021, 03:49:03 pm
Watching the Swans today makes me very envious. This is what I expected us to become and God knows we've been trying long enough. From what I've seen so far we are miles away.
Swans have done very well out of their academy, one of our problems is that teams like the Swans dont stay down for long and allow us easy passage up the ladder. They are already rebuilding well, are competitive again and never seem to fall off a cliff like we have seen with the Crows last season and now Nth.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on April 03, 2021, 03:49:42 pm
What happened to earning games?   Does he get gifted games just because he had a good one back in the day? 
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 03:50:48 pm
I'm not quite sure where this idea of gifting games to Murphy comes from. Somehow, I seriously doubt it.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on April 03, 2021, 03:52:02 pm
I'm not quite sure where this idea of gifting games to Murphy comes from. Somehow, I seriously doubt it.

well, looks like he's lining up tomorrow....
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on April 03, 2021, 03:52:38 pm
I'm not quite sure where this idea of gifting games to Murphy comes from. Somehow, I seriously doubt it.

So we don't have anyone good enough to displace him?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on April 03, 2021, 03:56:55 pm
So we don't have anyone good enough to displace him?

If Murphy is playing solely as a small forward, Betts at 44 is far better than him.

And quietly likely Owies and the new kid from SA (Durdin?) are just as deserving of a spot.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 03:59:11 pm
So we don't have anyone good enough to displace him?

I think it's a figment of supporters' imaginations. The MC has decided whatever his good and bad points, that what he brings is better than the alternatives.

And in the unlikely event that he is being gifted games, you can shut this site down, and send the entire club packing to the Kerguelen Islands. And we then spend our time on some other, at least remotely productive endeavour. It would be shocking beyond belief, if true.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: laj on April 03, 2021, 04:02:01 pm
If Murphy is playing solely as a small forward, Betts at 44 is far better than him.

And quietly likely Owies and the new kid from SA (Durdin?) are just as deserving of a spot.

Stick murphy back in the midfield and see how that goes. No good there then we have to think about it.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 03, 2021, 04:02:10 pm
Yep.   A bunch of kids and no names flogs the reigning premier.   Meanwhile we're neck deep in the same old ordure. Because their culture is first class and our I'd a deadset joke.

Sorry,  but playing the likes of Murphy is just prolonging the pain and epitomises our entrenched problems.   Gotta rip the band aid off and start afresh,  not keeping going back to the same old well.   It hasn't been good enough for 15 years,  why stick with the same names?
Yep, you look at the Dogs and they are prepared to drop regulars like Mitch Wallis and play kids like Vandermeer and McNeil.
We keep players like Murphy and Curnow in the team to keep our heads above water but we never actually progress anywhere and just tread water. Beveridge is a weirdo but at the same time has a ruthless streak in terms of what he demands, his older players know they have to perform to keep their place. JJ was a premiership wing/half back but didnt want to contest properly after that and bludged for the easy ball, was dropped after signing a long term deal, has had to fight his way back into the team....our standards are different and until we get ruthless our results will stay poor.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 03, 2021, 04:07:53 pm
I think it's a figment of supporters' imaginations. The MC has decided whatever his good and bad points, that what he brings is better than the alternatives.

And in the unlikely event that he is being gifted games, you can shut this site down, and send the entire club packing to the Kerguelen Islands. And we then spend our time on some other, at least remotely productive endeavour. It would be shocking beyond belief, if true.
OK, but can I go to the Abrolhos Islands instead?

Agree, I doubt based on our current form anybody is being gifted games, those accusations probably say more about the supporter than the club or players, emotion overcoming logic! :o
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: flyboy77 on April 03, 2021, 04:09:36 pm
Stick murphy back in the midfield and see how that goes. No good there then we have to think about it.

Agreed.

It's there or nothing imo.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on April 03, 2021, 04:10:37 pm
Playing soft footy... And that's the crux of our problem.  
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 04:11:16 pm
OK, but can I go to the Abrolhos Islands instead?

I doubt based on our current form anybody is being gifted games! :o

Apart from the fairly obvious fact that it's stupid, unethical, unprofessional etc., it's also worth noting Teague's testy satchels are on the line. Unless the idea of being sacked is an extreme turn on, he's not gifting games to anyone. Ridiculous idea.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on April 03, 2021, 04:19:18 pm
I think it's a figment of supporters' imaginations. The MC has decided whatever his good and bad points, that what he brings is better than the alternatives.

And in the unlikely event that he is being gifted games, you can shut this site down, and send the entire club packing to the Kerguelen Islands. And we then spend our time on some other, at least remotely productive endeavour. It would be shocking beyond belief, if true.

Just reflects the current parlous state of affairs then?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on April 03, 2021, 04:20:18 pm
OK not gifting games.   Getting an extended run in the seniors when form suggests otherwise.   Nobody on the list  should be a protected species.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 03, 2021, 04:20:34 pm
Apart from the fairly obvious fact that it's stupid, unethical, unprofessional etc., it's also worth noting Teague's testy satchels are on the line. Unless the idea of being sacked is an extreme turn on, he's not gifting games to anyone. Ridiculous idea.

Some clubs do what is right to win games, they are not stuck in the past wanting to glorify players or be over romantic
with milestones and personal achievements. We need to be less romantic about whose name is on honor boards and more ruthless about who is in the team and who deserves to be on the list.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 04:22:28 pm
Just reflects the current parlous state of affairs then?

Maybe. We can keep going backwards and forward about recruiting, development etc., but the MC is picking the best available for each match. And if Murphy is in that group, he's in. Whether "best available" equates to "worthy", "good', "good enough" etc. is a separate discussion IMO.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 04:26:57 pm
Some clubs do what is right to win games, they are not stuck in the past wanting to glorify players or be over romantic
with milestones and personal achievements. We need to be less romantic about whose name is on honor boards and more ruthless about who is in the team and who deserves to be on the list.

I'm sorry, but I simply don't believe that Murphy or anyone else is being gifted games, not for romance, bromance, honour boards or anything else. If you are willing to support a club that does that, I don't really know what to tell you.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: cookie2 on April 03, 2021, 04:29:08 pm
Maybe. We can keep going backwards and forward about recruiting, development etc., but the MC is picking the best available for each match. And if Murphy is in that group, he's in. Whether "best available" equates to "worthy", "good', "good enough" etc. is a separate discussion IMO.

But no one putting pressure on to take his spot currently? Bit of a worry?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 04:31:09 pm
But no one putting pressure on to take his spot currently? Bit of a worry?

Yes, maybe it is.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on April 03, 2021, 05:06:05 pm
Believe what you want.

Stocker on ball or Owies/Honey as a FP option.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on April 03, 2021, 05:38:30 pm
I'm sorry, but I simply don't believe that Murphy or anyone else is being gifted games, not for romance, bromance, honour boards or anything else. If you are willing to support a club that does that, I don't really know what to tell you.

I wouldn't say, 'gifted', Pauly... but I would say never underestimate the sentimentality in our's and other struggling sides. Successful sides rarely have passengers, especially two weeks in a row. But we have shown a strong propensity over a long period to 'allow' passengers.

Sometimes you have to stick with the 'passengers' as there just aint the talent pressing in the Magoos for selection - we've certainly been there, just ask BB.

But now we do have blokes pressing, yet being denied for some unknown reason. For example, there has been nothing in Casboult's efforts in the first two games to justify fronting up tomorrow... and the argument of 'team balance' does not hold water for moi. You put your best available on the paddock. If Casboult was injured we'd find a way to structure our forward line.

With today's Magoos hit-out, McGovern, Kennedy and Stocker have all put their hands up... and Willo bounced back for a BOG - another hand up.

If you reward below par efforts, you'll ask for below par results. Selection needs to be ruthless, as is the case with top sides.

(No mention of Carroll in today's Magoos games... rested? Injured? Also mentioned was that Marchbank is likely to play in the Magoos next week).
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 06:20:18 pm
I wouldn't say, 'gifted', Pauly... but I would say never underestimate the sentimentality in our's and other struggling sides. Successful sides rarely have passengers, especially two weeks in a row. But we have shown a strong propensity over a long period to 'allow' passengers.

Sometimes you have to stick with the 'passengers' as there just aint the talent pressing in the Magoos for selection - we've certainly been there, just ask BB.

But now we do have blokes pressing, yet being denied for some unknown reason. For example, there has been nothing in Casboult's efforts in the first two games to justify fronting up tomorrow... and the argument of 'team balance' does not hold water for moi. You put your best available on the paddock. If Casboult was injured we'd find a way to structure our forward line.

With today's Magoos hit-out, McGovern, Kennedy and Stocker have all put their hands up... and Willo bounced back for a BOG - another hand up.

If you reward below par efforts, you'll ask for below par results. Selection needs to be ruthless, as is the case with top sides.

(No mention of Carroll in today's Magoos games... rested? Injured? Also mentioned was that Marchbank is likely to play in the Magoos next week).

My participation in this discussion started when I read that Murphy is being gifted games to get to 300. He entered the season on 285. If you seriously believe that he is being gifted 15 out of 22 (leaving out finals), or 70% of the total games this season to make the milestone, well................

Leaving that aside and taking a short term view, we are 2 games in. Plenty of players not at their best. Maybe, just maybe, these blokes who are pressing for selection are getting close, but still not good enough to earn selection ? Maybe the MC has gone all risk averse because they would rather go with tried and true instead of taking risks, giving that it appears to be finals or bust for Teague. Maybe the nothing practice matches up till now are not a reliable form indicator ? Maybe Murphy's experience and other attributes are getting him over the line ?

In short, there is no basis for thinking the club has gone all sickly sweet like an overripe mango, and there's no basis for thinking anyone is being gifted games.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 03, 2021, 06:49:01 pm
This is the team - apologies for the crap formatting :

Carlton
FB [26] Luke Parks, [14] Liam Jones,[20] Lachie Plowman

HB [15] Sam Docherty, [23] Jacob Weitering, [42] Adam Saad

C [43] Will Setterfield, [18] Sam Walsh, [32] Jack Newnes

HF [8] Lachie Fogarty, [10] Harry McKay, [1] Jack Silvagni

FF [19] Eddie Betts, [41] Levi Casboult, [6] Zac Williams

FOL [27] Marc Pittonet, [2] Paddy Dow, [9] Patrick Cripps

I/C [5] Sam Petrevski-Seton, [35] Ed Curnow, [40] Michael Gibbons, [3] Marc Murphy

Emerg [31] Tom Williamson, [46] Matthew Cottrell, [39] Oscar McDonald, [7] Matthew Kennedy
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LordLucifer on April 03, 2021, 06:51:58 pm
Not wanting to sound like the 'prophet of doom', if GWS roll the Dees tomorrow and we can't get over Freo, then we will be in 17th position on the ladder alongside the Kangas as the only clubs without win thus far.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 03, 2021, 06:52:52 pm
Not wanting to sound like the 'prophet of doom', if GWS roll the Dees tomorrow and we can't get over Freo, then we will be in 17th position on the ladder alongside the Kangas as the only clubs without win thus far.
Hold my beer
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: spf on April 03, 2021, 06:56:14 pm
Round 3
Carlton vs Fremantle


Backs: Luke Parks Liam Jones Lachie Plowman
Half-backs: Sam Docherty Jacob Weitering Adam Saad
Centreline: Will Setterfield Sam Walsh Jack Newnes
Half-forwards: Lachie Fogarty Harry McKay Jack Silvagni
Forwards: Eddie Betts Levi Casboult Zac Williams
Ruck: Marc Pittonet Patrick Cripps Paddy Dow

Interchange:
Sam Petrevski-Seton
Michael Gibbons
Marc Murphy
Ed Curnow

Emergencies:
Matthew Cottrell
Matthew Kennedy
Oscar McDonald
Liam Stocker
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Baggers on April 03, 2021, 07:17:16 pm
Cottrell will be the sub... others played today...
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: DJC on April 03, 2021, 07:44:41 pm
Cottrell will be the sub... others played today...

Versatile player so not a bad choice as sub.  If he gets a run, another goal celebration would be good  :)
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Milhanna13 on April 03, 2021, 08:18:48 pm
If Murphy is playing solely as a small forward, Betts at 44 is far better than him.

And quietly likely Owies and the new kid from SA (Durdin?) are just as deserving of a spot.
Easy to say - but didn’t Owies play late last year and not get near it?
Murphy offers less than zero when the oppo has it, but he does know how to get a kick and occasionally looks like he may actually hit a forward with a pass when he has it
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 03, 2021, 09:26:35 pm
Not all players play all ways, we've been through this debate over and over again on this site, bash and crash players are rarely distributors and users. Users and distributors are rarely bash and crash players, Craig Bradley was just as tough as Wayne Johnston or Jimmy Buckley, but in a different way.

Same applies to Murphy and a bunch of other AFL players. Expecting them to make everybody happy is foolish, because it's the unhappy people who are the problem not the players..
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: madbluboy on April 03, 2021, 09:34:45 pm
Plowman gets 8 kicked on him and we drop Williamson lol.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 03, 2021, 09:40:26 pm
Plowman gets 8 kicked on him and we drop Williamson lol.
I found the one omission odd. Levi? Setters?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 03, 2021, 09:42:21 pm
Plowman gets 8 kicked on him and we drop Williamson lol.
Tomorrow it'll be 9, 10 maybe even 11!

But doesn't specifically mean he isn't doing his job, it may mean others aren't, it's a team sport.

Williamson was considered shizen by many, many who had him out ahead of others, it's not a surprise.

I'm a Williamson booster, but I can't defend his first two rounds.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 03, 2021, 09:50:02 pm
I found the one omission odd. Levi? Setters?
I thought Levi was putrid too, but we have a bare cupboard in the ruck division, so we must pay the price of playing an out of form KPP.

You watch what happens if McGovern gets fit and kicks a few in the magoos, we'll bring McGovern in to replace Levi as a 2nd ruck because he has done it more than once before, but that was before the current ruck rules, so he'll play shizen in the ruck and fans will want his blood.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Thryleon on April 03, 2021, 11:15:49 pm
Nah, Macdonald should be playing instead of Levi.

Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Professer E on April 04, 2021, 06:49:16 am
Agreed.   We have a loss and if any of the Setterfield - Levi - Murphy triumvirate  has a bad game, then this place might explode.

100% effort  100% of the time...or clean out your locker.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: PaulP on April 04, 2021, 06:55:43 am
Tomorrow it'll be 9, 10 maybe even 11!
..............................................

Tanking lol.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 04, 2021, 07:04:24 am
Nah, Macdonald should be playing instead of Levi.


100% Thry, OMac did more in a half v Rich than Levi has done in 8 Qtrs. So horribly out of form it not funny. As for young Setterfield, two softer games of footy I have not seen from him. He needs to extract the digit this week, no doubt about it. Its blokes like him we need the lift from. They need to step up, be agressive and take the load off the older blokes. Look at Syd performance yesterday, their young blokes played like 10 yr veterans FFS, we just keep making excuses for ours. Sick of it.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: kruddler on April 04, 2021, 08:56:35 am
Plowman gets 8 kicked on him and we drop Williamson lol
How many of them was he covering for Williamson's man at the time?
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 04, 2021, 09:00:26 am
Nah, Macdonald should be playing instead of Levi.
Maybe, but I think he's another level down in the ruck from even Levi.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: kruddler on April 04, 2021, 09:01:38 am
Maybe, but I think he's another level down in the ruck from even Levi.
How many hitouts did Levi get last game?

There isn't another level down from ZERO
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 04, 2021, 09:11:35 am
How many hitouts did Levi get last game?

There isn't another level down from ZERO
True, but as Buckley found out it's not just about taps.

Levi's never been a big first-hands player, his improvement in recent years was the 2nd efforts and around the ground stuff. If we had smarter coaches they'd leave Pittonet on the ground and D50 side of the center, and have Levi ruck inside F50 100% using his strength.

McDonald hasn't much of a ruck 2nd effort, he's a ruck baby!
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: kruddler on April 04, 2021, 09:24:24 am
True, but as Buckley found out it's not just about taps.

Levi's never been a big first-hands player, his improvement in recent years was the 2nd efforts and around the ground stuff. If we had smarter coaches they'd leave Pittonet on the ground and D50 side of the center, and have Levi ruck inside F50 100% using his strength.

McDonald hasn't much of a ruck 2nd effort, he's a ruck baby!
Oscar showed more nous and 2nd efforts in his practice matches than Levi ever has.
Levis only benefit is his size and marking and Oscar has shown decent enough marking and Levi doesn't use his size enough.

As I've pointed out for a couple years now, hitout stats is a crock. Hitouts to advantage and clearances mean hitouts are irrelevant. Buckley agrees.
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 04, 2021, 10:53:55 am
85% or more of effective ruck work comes after the tap.

You can lose the taps, taps to advantage and whatever stat someone wants to invent 50:1 and still win the ruck, as Buckley found out! ;)

If you know what you are doing, you can even deliberately lose the tap such that the opponent gets a tap to advantage stat, and still win the clearance. Most good rucks know this, Levi took years to show some signs that he was learning it, McDonald shows no pattern at all he is ruck chaos!

If we want to try someone in the ruck, it may as well be Jones, and play McDonald in his natural position inside D50 with Weitering. Under Josh Fraser's tutelage Jones showed significant potential in the VFL ruck, he recovers quickly naturally and attacks the football without hesitation. Something many players trialled in the ruck do not do!
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 04, 2021, 02:42:37 pm
Setterfield Out Cottrel In
OMac the Sub
Title: Re: Pre Game Preparations: AFL 2021 R3 Carlton vs Fremantle at Marvel
Post by: LP on April 04, 2021, 02:54:09 pm
Setterfield Out Cottrel In
OMac the Sub
 Funny I heard this rumour this morning but didn't post it as I thought it was a bit weak.