This is the best news I've heard for a decade!
Carlton were dismayed that no one showed support for their former skipper Marc Murphy after his ribs were broken in an encounter with Giants' enforcer Shane Mumford in the first quarter of last Sunday's 93-point loss to Greater Western Sydney.
The Blues were 39 points down at the time but it was only skipper Patrick Cripps who made any attempt to remonstrate with Mumford as Murphy lay on the ground in pain.
Blues coach Brendon Bolton revealed that Cripps was particularly disappointed at the team's response at that point and said the moment was an opportunity for teammates to express their feelings.
"It is important to fly the flag when someone gets hurt," Bolton said.
.................Read the Full Article HERE (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/it-s-important-to-fly-the-flag-when-someone-gets-hurt-bolton-20190524-p51qr8.html)
Only 100 years too late, but anyway.
Let's hope the talk extends into on field deeds.
Only 100 years too late, but anyway.
Let's hope the talk extends into on field deeds.
Yeah it's Friday, everyone has moved on to the next round.
We'll win this week (or die trying)
Once you make a bit of noise about this kind of thing you just can't afford to not come ready to be fierce at the contest.
St Kilda should be expecting that and will try to match it.
It should be a great contest.
If the players put in another lacklustre effort they will have nowhere to hide.
Caro trying to ruffle Judds feathers has him fire up. Interesting read their about where BB stands on flying the flag and Support for Cripps. I wonder if the recent players only meeting had this issue come up in the discussion.
If we are ever going to be taken seriously in this competition then anytime one of players gets whacked like Murphy did then we need all of the players in there pushing & shoving and where possible, landing one on someone's chin.
I will be comfortable with a suspension or two if it sends a message to the other clubs that we will not be bullied.
If we are ever going to be taken seriously in this competition then anytime one of players gets whacked like Murphy did then we need all of the players in there pushing & shoving and where possible, landing one on someone's chin.
I will be comfortable with a suspension or two if it sends a message to the other clubs that we will not be bullied.
So long as they're smart about it - get one of the fringe players to do it and cop the suspension.
So long as they're smart about it - get one of the fringe players to do it and cop the suspension.
Totally agree Paul, but I was told that was thuggish behaviour and belongs only in the NRL.
Funny thing is, nearly all other sides do it to us.
Sick to farking death of it.
We look so passive its disgusting.
Culture
Caro trying to ruffle Judds feathers has him fire up. Interesting read their about where BB stands on flying the flag and Support for Cripps. I wonder if the recent players only meeting had this issue come up in the discussion.
The Hawks have never been soft, one could say they often border on dirty (but get away with it)?
One would have thought Bolts would have brought a similar mind set across?
Totally agree Paul, but I was told that was thuggish behaviour and belongs only in the NRL.
Funny thing is, nearly all other sides do it to us.
Sick to farking death of it.
We look so passive its disgusting.
I've mentioned before (which I say a lot these days), that I don't want us to be the aggressors, I want us to have a reputation that means other clubs simply won't even try it on, because they know if they do they will get it back 10 fold, like players don't bother having a go at Hodge, because it's a waste of time.
Flyboy. This is a good question. Maybe the players haven’t been buying what he is selling.
I’m sure I posted this a couple of years ago. It’s still relevant.
The ‘99’ Call on the British Lions Tour to South Africa many years ago by my countryman, Willie John McBride, who was the Captain of the Tour and how he dealt with dirty play against his Team. A real old school Leader. Remember, Union was still amateur back then.
https://youtu.be/hU-c4YyEVMY
It’s a great wee video of him telling the story of how he came up with it. I think it has a place in today’s game. No matter what bleeding heart, group think left wingers say. It’s a contact sport and sometimes lines need to be drawn. Anyway have a watch of it.
Totally agree Paul, but I was told that was thuggish behaviour and belongs only in the NRL.
Funny thing is, nearly all other sides do it to us.
Sick to farking death of it.
We look so passive its disgusting.
You've confused flying the flag with Paul Gallen Cheap Shot Bastardry again!
They are talking about responding when some Gallen type thug hands it out or tries to, not becoming a Gallen!
We've been bullied twice in three weeks, and the best why to deal with bullies is to stand up to them in unison!
Further, in my opinion, that applies to the club in it's public media face as well!
Nobody voluntarily gives or treats you with respect in the AFL, you've got to take it or earn it, but it won't ever be home delivered!
The Hawks have never been soft, one could say they often border on dirty (but get away with it)?
One would have thought Bolts would have brought a similar mind set across?
It's wasn't ever the babies or lightweights flying the flag at the Dawks, it was Hodge, Franklin, Roughead, Dew, Brown, Renouf, Bailey, Lewis, Gibson, Lake, McEvoy, etc., etc..
It is so interesting to read this debate on here.
We had a player named Waite a few years back. He was regularly the only bloke to "fly the flag" in a navy guernsey.
He got suspended for doing it and the outcry against him was palpable.
I’m sure I posted this a couple of years ago. It’s still relevant.
The ‘99’ Call on the British Lions Tour to South Africa many years ago by my countryman, Willie John McBride, who was the Captain of the Tour and how he dealt with dirty play against his Team. A real old school Leader. Remember, Union was still amateur back then.
https://youtu.be/hU-c4YyEVMY
It’s a great wee video of him telling the story of how he came up with it. I think it has a place in today’s game. No matter what bleeding heart, group think left wingers say. It’s a contact sport and sometimes lines need to be drawn. Anyway have a watch of it.
I'm a bleeding heart leftie. I did watch it, and that's precisely the sort of thing I referred to earlier. Not to be the aggressors, but be ready to send a message such that it doesn't happen again. i.e play as hard as you like, but no lining up our blokes to try and hurt. There's plenty of contact in our sport as it is. Barely a minute passes in any AFL match when there isn't hard contact of some type.
It is so interesting to read this debate on here.
We had a player named Waite a few years back. He was regularly the only bloke to "fly the flag" in a navy guernsey.
He got suspended for doing it and the outcry against him was palpable.
In the media, and from a deash1t coach who kept telling us he had the player's backs, I don't think fans ever gave a flying feck!
I'm not going to go trawling for the thread, but there was plenty of gusto on this forum at the time.
I'm a bleeding heart leftie. I did watch it, and that's precisely the sort of thing I referred to earlier. Not to be the aggressors, but be ready to send a message such that it doesn't happen again. i.e play as hard as you like, but no lining up our blokes to try and hurt. There's plenty of contact in our sport as it is. Barely a minute passes in any AFL match when there isn't hard contact of some type.
That is exactly what Cripps was on about, standing up when it happens to team-mates, nobody has suggested handing it out unprovoked.
We do not want snipers!
I'm not going to go trawling for the thread, but there was plenty of gusto on this forum at the time.
Trolls?
At the weekend I saw a perfect example of the VFL / VAFA getting things wrong on this issue.
A player is lying on the ground face down after a contest, and an opponent ruckmen drops his knees into the players legs and punches him in the back of the head driving his face into the turf. That's gutless Paul Gallen type activity!
The umpire saw this and ran over whistle ready, in the meantime the punched player jumps up and jobs the ruckmen on the chin! So the umpire red carded the punched player for retaliating, even though the umpire witnessed the original events right in front of him!
So the VAFA suspended the player who retaliated for two weeks and left the ruckmen play on! And then fined the team for starting a melee!
And they wonder why fans are sledging the officials, tribunal and the umpires?
It was all caught on video by the way, even the first incident with the umpire in the background looking directly across the players towards the camera!
I'm a bleeding heart leftie. I did watch it, and that's precisely the sort of thing I referred to earlier. Not to be the aggressors, but be ready to send a message such that it doesn't happen again. i.e play as hard as you like, but no lining up our blokes to try and hurt. There's plenty of contact in our sport as it is. Barely a minute passes in any AFL match when there isn't hard contact of some type.
You literally only took out of my post what resonated and didn’t understand what I am trying to say. :)
LP and JonHenry are correct. I’m not saying we should be the aggressors, but if you touch any of our boys, by all that’s holy, you’ll never forget what happened afterwards. Ever.
Thats what Culture is. “It’s how we do thing around here.” If you do not understand or accept that, fair enough. We’re all entitled to our own opinions and you only want the best for this Club.
But this is a full contact sport with young men in their pride and that reputations on the field do count and that needing to stand up for your team, club and Members sometimes involves a tussle or two. I’d rather a brawl and a couple of our boys getting suspended, but this rough play with our boys stops, than watching us stand back and be bullied during a 22 week season. There’ll be moments in the game on Sunday when our boys will be tested. Let’s see what impact this player only meeting has had on our players. Not just Cripps. Everyone. What Pact was formed.
Look, sometimes you need to stand up and face the bully eye to eye and smack the guy into the next week. There and then. This is not the School Yard, where you take it up to the Teacher afterwards. The AFL doesn’t give a damn about our Club. You think their Teacher, Bolton, will clap them on the back for standing back and not flying the flag for Murphy, when it counted? Not a bloody Chance. You’d be commended in house if you went after Mumford. Especially if you were, say a Sammo or Fisher. Suspension included. Guaranteed.
Er, that's my position, just a more expanded version.
You've confused flying the flag with Paul Gallen Cheap Shot Bastardry again!
They are talking about responding when some Gallen type thug hands it out or tries to, not becoming a Gallen!
We've been bullied twice in three weeks, and the best why to deal with bullies is to stand up to them in unison!
Further, in my opinion, that applies to the club in it's public media face as well!
Nobody voluntarily gives or treats you with respect in the AFL, you've got to take it or earn it, but it won't ever be home delivered!
Yeah ok, thanks for that.... ::)
It is so interesting to read this debate on here.
We had a player named Waite a few years back. He was regularly the only bloke to "fly the flag" in a navy guernsey.
He got suspended for doing it and the outcry against him was palpable.
I think the problem with Waite was two fold:
1 - He would get suspended without hurting the opposition
2 - He missed a lot of games through injury, so adding more missed games through suspension hurt
I think the problem with Waite was two fold:
1 - He would get suspended without hurting the opposition
2 - He missed a lot of games through injury, so adding more missed games through suspension hurt
Agree, his actual footy nous was very good, but his aggression was never smart.
That is exactly what Cripps was on about, standing up when it happens to team-mates, nobody has suggested handing it out unprovoked.
We do not want snipers!
You don't want a Wayne Johnston?
Sometimes you need to be the aggressor.
As you said, it's a tough game, and if you constantly let others get in first, then retaliate, it will be too little too late, or you end up suspended which is what they are trying to achieve anyway.
Agree, his actual footy nous was very good, but his aggression was never smart.
The worst occasions were when he did something stupidly aggressive/reactive and hurt himself, it happened more than once!
You don't want a Wayne Johnston?
Sometimes you need to be the aggressor.
As you said, it's a tough game, and if you constantly let others get in first, then retaliate, it will be too little too late, or you end up suspended which is what they are trying to achieve anyway.
Of course we want Wayne Johnston, or Leigh Matthews, but let's not confuse brutality at the contest with off the ball hits or dead-set thuggery, aka., The Battle of Britain, they are not the same thing! Both Johnston and Matthews by the way deeply regret certain acts of retaliation, Clarkson has never stated his regret or apologised!
Further, hoping every player will be like that only see up lifelong disappointment as a supporter! If bastardry and brutality was a requirement of recruitment think of the past players you would have ruled out? Bradley, Sheldon, Doull, Southby, Sexton, Keogh, Ratten, Christou, Pearce, Camporeale, Silvagni, Gleeson, Allan, Ashman, Marcou, Carrazzo, Glascott, Gibbs, Betts, etc., etc., etc.. All walk up starts!
You literally only took out of my post what resonated and didn’t understand what I am trying to say. :)
LP and JonHenry are correct. I’m not saying we should be the aggressors, but if you touch any of our boys, by all that’s holy, you’ll never forget what happened afterwards. Ever.
Thats what Culture is. “It’s how we do thing around here.” If you do not understand or accept that, fair enough. We’re all entitled to our own opinions and you only want the best for this Club.
But this is a full contact sport with young men in their pride and that reputations on the field do count and that needing to stand up for your team, club and Members sometimes involves a tussle or two. I’d rather a brawl and a couple of our boys getting suspended, but this rough play with our boys stops, than watching us stand back and be bullied during a 22 week season. There’ll be moments in the game on Sunday when our boys will be tested. Let’s see what impact this player only meeting has had on our players. Not just Cripps. Everyone. What Pact was formed.
Look, sometimes you need to stand up and face the bully eye to eye and smack the guy into the next week. There and then. This is not the School Yard, where you take it up to the Teacher afterwards. The AFL doesn’t give a damn about our Club. You think their Teacher, Bolton, will clap them on the back for standing back and not flying the flag for Murphy, when it counted? Not a bloody Chance. You’d be commended in house if you went after Mumford. Especially if you were, say a Sammo or Fisher. Suspension included. Guaranteed.
Well said. It's a gladiatorial sport... though, I suspect, Gil is trying to pretty it up so it's more 'entertaining'... Ice Capades on grass. He won't succeed and hopefully packs up his play lunch at the end of the year and takes up a diplomatic post in Oodnadatta, or perhaps run the family estate in Kensington (UK).
I would suggest though, that to be the side that hits the grass full of controlled aggression is a better option as you don't become the one that 'reacts'. Retaliators get pinged, regularly. When you have a 'front foot controlled aggression' (ruthlessness at the aggott and opponent) culture you sow that whisker of doubt & caution into some opponents... presently, we are a long way from that, no-one fears us in any way shape or form - not very impressive after an approaching 4 year rebuild. With that kind of culture it's automatic to fly the flag should any thug try their luck harming one of our blokes. And when that kind of culture flies the flag it can be definitive and quite intimidating.
...presently, we are a long way from that, no-one fears us in any way shape or form - not very impressive after an approaching 4 year rebuild. With that kind of culture it's automatic to fly the flag should any thug try their luck harming one of our blokes. And when that kind of culture flies the flag it can be definitive and quite intimidating.
Welcome to the legacy of Marc Murphy and Bryce Gibbs.
I think the problem with Waite was two fold:
1 - He would get suspended without hurting the opposition
2 - He missed a lot of games through injury, so adding more missed games through suspension hurt
I'm leaving the injury part out of it. If we want aggressive players, then we cant pick and choose who we get. It's natural for some guys, and not others.
My point is, that when we are crying out for aggression, crying out for guys to retaliate to opposition thugs and "draw a line in the sand", then sometimes the retaliator is going to get sanctioned. We need to accept that fact if we want someone standing up for the kids so to speak.
Of course we want Wayne Johnston, or Leigh Matthews, but let's not confuse brutality at the contest with off the ball hits or dead-set thuggery, aka., The Battle of Britain, they are not the same thing! Both Johnston and Matthews by the way deeply regret certain acts of retaliation, Clarkson has never stated his regret or apologised!
Further, hoping every player will be like that only see up lifelong disappointment as a supporter! If bastardry and brutality was a requirement of recruitment think of the past players you would have ruled out? Bradley, Sheldon, Doull, Southby, Sexton, Keogh, Ratten, Christou, Pearce, Camporeale, Silvagni, Gleeson, Allan, Ashman, Marcou, Carrazzo, Glascott, Gibbs, Betts, etc., etc., etc.. All walk up starts!
No crap!!!
But the point is, you can't always retaliate.
No one is suggesting king hitting.
Did Mummy king hit Murphy?
Nope, not even cited.
Does Nankervis king hit? No.
But they do get in first.
I'm leaving the injury part out of it. If we want aggressive players, then we cant pick and choose who we get. It's natural for some guys, and not others.
My point is, that when we are crying out for aggression, crying out for guys to retaliate to opposition thugs and "draw a line in the sand", then sometimes the retaliator is going to get sanctioned. We need to accept that fact if we want someone standing up for the kids so to speak.
We need a few to start it.
Sometime you have to be the aggressor.
At the moment we have no one at all.
Once you start to go down that path, you're on a very slippery slope. The things that Johnston did would not be tolerated in today's game. If you want a synopsis of some of his hits, listen to him on Driving With Sam Pang. Even Hodge doesn't carry on like that.
It's a small step from that to a turd like Steven Baker, who used to sharpen his studs to try and bust players ankles as he jogged past. Folks think they know where to draw the line, but history shows that's not the case.
Also, retaliators get pinged because most of the time they react instinctively to an infringement, and so it clearly looks like they're lashing out. The thing to do is to lodge the indiscretion in the brain, and save the return fire for some other time, preferably in the same game.
Once you start to go down that path, you're on a very slippery slope. The things that Johnston did would not be tolerated in today's game. If you want a synopsis of some of his hits, listen to him on Driving With Sam Pang. Even Hodge doesn't carry on like that.
It's a small step from that to a turd like Steven Baker, who used to sharpen his studs to try and bust players ankles as he jogged past. Folks think they know where to draw the line, but history shows that's not the case.
Its a slippery slope that all the other sides manage.
We are still at ground level
Welcome to the legacy of Marc Murphy and Bryce Gibbs.
Spanner that's a silly statement.
Similar to expecting Craig Bradley, Stevens, Glascott, Glesson, Ashman, Marcou, Carrazzo to play like Jim Buckley, Johnston, Hickmott, Williams, Rice, Koutafides or Fraser Brown!
The problem isn't having players or a player of a specific type, a club needs all types to be successful, but you need a balanced list not too much of one or the other!
imho, Carlton made a massive mistake getting rid of all the Mitch Robinson and Jed Lamb types, they just needed to use them better!
imho, Carlton made a massive mistake getting rid of all the Mitch Robinson and Jed Lamb types, they just needed to use them better!
Totally thought this at the time, Mitch was f'd over by MM and Jed, not sure how we couldn't find a spot for him to stay.
Totally thought this at the time, Mitch was f'd over by MM and Jed, not sure how we couldn't find a spot for him to stay.
You don't use a scalpel to drive in a nail, do you Micky0!
I've mentioned before, we play and manage our football like it's managed by a Socialist Wellbeing Movement from the department of OH&S!
I'm sure if you sat in our team meetings you'd hear common phrases like;
- Excuse me, please use your inside voice......
- My name is............ please use it
- Please everybody quiet, ........ is speaking!
- Now now, all opinions are equal ..........
- Raise your hand to speak........
- Please pass the speakers baton.......
- You have to put on your coloured hat...........
- Time out.............
- I think we've all deserved a little break.........
- Some good ideas everybody, let's ponder those and comeback in an hour............
- Being heard starts with listening and consideration for others.............
- Positive statements only please........
- Chamomile tea anyone ..........maybe a Kombucha pick me up?
Mitch Robinson would get chucked out of that meeting for playing CoD on his phone!
Er, that's my position, just a more expanded version.
If I mistook your previous post then apologies mate. ^-^
If I mistook your previous post then apologies mate. ^-^
All good.
We often raise the flag. Pity it's often the white one.
I'm sure if you sat in our team meetings you'd hear common phrases like;
- Excuse me, please use your inside voice......
- My name is............ please use it
- Please everybody quiet, ........ is speaking!
- Now now, all opinions are equal ..........
- Raise your hand to speak........
- Please pass the speakers baton.......
- You have to put on your coloured hat...........
- Time out.............
- I think we've all deserved a little break.........
- Some good ideas everybody, let's ponder those and comeback in an hour............
- Being heard starts with listening and consideration for others.............
- Positive statements only please........
- Chamomile tea anyone ..........maybe a Kombucha pick me up?
I assume you were being funny as opposed to being serious.
Welcome to the legacy of Marc Murphy and Bryce Gibbs.
Yep.
We dont recruit players who fly the flag, Cripps aside most of our bigger players are the passive type and a bloke like Mumford scares
the daylights out of our players. Barry Hall was the same, our blokes would actually jump out of the road so Barry could soldier on untouched.
You need a couple of mongrels who can play a bit, its an essential element of any good team, too many choir boys in our team.
Its so obvious to most that even a kid like Stocker stands out after a few games only as he is prepared to stand his ground and shows more substance
than a lot of his teammates.
We dont recruit players who fly the flag, Cripps aside most of our bigger players are the passive type and a bloke like Mumford scares
the daylights out of our players. Barry Hall was the same, our blokes would actually jump out of the road so Barry could soldier on untouched.
You need a couple of mongrels who can play a bit, its an essential element of any good team, too many choir boys in our team.
Its so obvious to most that even a kid like Stocker stands out after a few games only as he is prepared to stand his ground and shows more substance
than a lot of his teammates.
I don't disagree, but as a counterargument, let me take you down memory lane.
Game #13 (i think) a fresh faced 18yo "I just wanted to take one of them out with me" or words to that effect after popping his shoulder and then getting in the face of opposition players. Showed plenty of agro and fight in his first season.
That player - Marc Murphy.
Now? Well.....Spanner wanna handle this one? :P
I don't disagree, but as a counterargument, let me take you down memory lane.
Game #13 (i think) a fresh faced 18yo "I just wanted to take one of them out with me" or words to that effect after popping his shoulder and then getting in the face of opposition players. Showed plenty of agro and fight in his first season.
That player - Marc Murphy.
Now? Well.....Spanner wanna handle this one? :P
Wonder what happened after game 13?
Wonder what happened after game 13?
Something similar to what happened in game 258 :( >:(
I don't disagree, but as a counterargument, let me take you down memory lane.
Game #13 (i think) a fresh faced 18yo "I just wanted to take one of them out with me" or words to that effect after popping his shoulder and then getting in the face of opposition players. Showed plenty of agro and fight in his first season.
That player - Marc Murphy.
Now? Well.....Spanner wanna handle this one? :P
Great argument
Thanks for your input