I am not a fan of the "Best 22" discussion when the team has been so poor for so many years and we have entered a major rebuild/reset.
Who are they being measured against ?? Other 'non-performers' & 'untried newbies' at the club would cover a lot of them right now.
At present, we could argue ad-nauseum about who is in our best 22 but whatever 22 was agreed upon, it isn't going to match it with the top end of the competition and won't for a couple more years to come.
It would find it far more exciting & interesting to focus on who would make an "AFL Final Four 22" right now and over the next year or two add names to it as the players develop and the playing list gets turned over and built.
I'm sure we will have a terrific team that will produce results once all that hack work has been done but right now, there are way too many unknowns about the influx of new faces for us to talk with any certainty about who is capable of doing or being what.
B : Docherty, TBA, TBA
HB : TBA, TBA, Simpson
C : TBA, Cripps, TBA
HF : Gibbs, TBA, TBA
F : TBA, TBA, TBA
R : TBA, Murphy, TBA
I/C : TBA, TBA, TBA, TBA
A handful of other players (eg. Kreuzer) will have claims to being in that team but due to injuries & consistency levels, they are considered to be 'on the cusp' until they have proven they are worthy.
Also, we all have genuine beliefs that some of the new kids (eg. Weitering) will be a super players for us but at present, they still haven't played a senior game and therefore, cannot be considered.
Casboult
Also, we all have genuine beliefs that some of the new kids (eg. Weitering) will be a super players for us but at present, they still haven't played a senior game and therefore, cannot be considered.
I can't see any reason why the new blokes cannot be considered for our best 22 now. They can't be any worse than some of the bananas that were gifted games last season.
Anyway, we should have a pretty good idea after a couple of NAB Challenge games :)
I can't see any reason why the new blokes cannot be considered for our best 22 now. They can't be any worse than some of the bananas that were gifted games last season.
Anyway, we should have a pretty good idea after a couple of NAB Challenge games :)
You have missed the point of this DJC, it's not "best 22" at all, it's an "AFL Final Four 22" of which we have very few presently.
This is not to say in 12-months time there won't be some new names on that team due to some of the new players fully establishing themselves.
You have missed the point of this DJC, it's not "best 22" at all, it's an "AFL Final Four 22" of which we have very few presently.
This is not to say in 12-months time there won't be some new names on that team due to some of the new players fully establishing themselves.
Yes, I did miss your point Sheik.
In that case I reckon that we would need to see improvement and consistency from most of what's left of last season's best 22 as well as from the new boys. However, I would add Tuohy, Ed Curnow and Everitt to your selections.
How many years will it take us to make the top 4? It's currently at 16 years, will Simpson be around?
We could make top 4 next season or in 2017. You never know. Look at Leicester in the EPL.
Yes, I did miss your point Sheik.
In that case I reckon that we would need to see improvement and consistency from most of what's left of last season's best 22 as well as from the new boys. However, I would add Tuohy, Ed Curnow and Everitt to your selections.
Tuohy definitely....I think Ed might struggle to hold his place as some of the new guys come on...but if Curnow's out of the side because there are 22 ahead of him we'll have a top 4 side.
Everitt has that versatility....probably on the interchange....and I reckon by the end of the year Buckley will be a certainty.
Casboult
Big year for Casboult, he's a new dad and new dad players tend to go one of two ways, they either become gun shy and worry about making it home safe from work, or they become even more determined to be a success and give their kids a future!
It's a 50/50 at this stage, proud house husband or player with a future!
The irony for the house husband is that playing it safe makes you a bigger target for pricks like Hodge and Lewis as they love nothing better to pick off unsuspecting players on the fringe!
The safest place on the ground is in the heat!
No chance !!
No place for the best contested mark in the league?
Yikes! You must have some vendetta against him or summit.
If he were on Hawthorn's list would he get a game this year??? Absolutely. Freo - likewise.
Big year for Casboult, he's a new dad and new dad players tend to go one of two ways, they either become gun shy and worry about making it home safe from work, or they become even more determined to be a success and give their kids a future!
It's a 50/50 at this stage, proud house husband or player with a future!
The irony for the house husband is that playing it safe makes you a bigger target for pricks like Hodge and Lewis as they love nothing better to pick off unsuspecting players on the fringe!
The safest place on the ground is in the heat!
Kill or be killed is the mantra.
Generally players will be happy to dish it out if they think once they stop they will start copping it instead.
Reckon the handful of players you have their Sheik is about right. I could only see Murphy, Gibbs, Cripps and Docherty in a top four side. Simpson is brave, but his inability to kick both sides is poor for a professional player, and i hope for us in the future is simply not acceptable.
Others on the cusp would be Everitt and maybe Tuohy. That's about it. This year will determine alot of futures.
Nicky G will be a top four player in the next few years. Mark it down.
Lock Weitering in....Gibbs, Murphy and Simpson for sure wont be there IMO...
At least we've got five more than the druggo's. :D
I think we can make a couple of adjustments to our team now :
B : Docherty, TBA, TBA
HB : TBA, Weitering, Plowman
C : TBA, Cripps, TBA
HF : Gibbs, TBA, TBA
F : TBA, TBA, TBA
R : TBA, Murphy, TBA
I/C : TBA, TBA, C. Curnow, TBA
I'm looking for Byrne, Sumner, Boekhorst & someone from the ruck division to put their hand up too !!
Considering all your TBA, I would have omitted Gibbs.
His super coach scores are the only thing good about his footy this year.
B : TBA, Jack Silvagni Jnr (SOJ),TBA
HB : TBA, TBA, TBA
C : TBA, Oscar Judd, TBA
HF : TBA, TBA, TBA
F : TBA, TBA, TBA
R : TBA, Oscar's Brother(s), TBA
I/C : TBA, TBA, TBA, Simpson :D
Sam Kerridge will make that list.
Interesting reading this thread, how attitudes have changed in just a few games! :o
Considering all your TBA, I would have omitted Gibbs.
His super coach scores are the only thing good about his footy this year.
Gibbs is the prime example of why we are such an ordinary team.
We simply get next to nothing, on the whole, out of our ENTIRE senior group.....whether injured, disinterested or whatever.
1. Murphy
2. Gibbs
3. Kreuzer
4. Walker
5. Thomas
6. Jamison
7. Everitt
8. Rowe - been serviceable in 2016 imo.
Three #1s draft picks, 2 #2 picks, etc.
Leaving 1AW out of the mix due to injury - the other 7 are actually producing less in 2016 (granted only 4 games in) than they did in 2015 - and that's saying something.
These are the guys that should be the engine of the team out there - think Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis (retired?), Burgoyne, Gibson, Roughy - you never, ever see these blokes go missing.....so why do ours repeatedly?
Focusing on Gibbs, even if he gets 30 disposals, we all know 25 of them are soft, on the outside, gets that have no real impact on the game.
Shame we can't trade players mid season.
Gibbs is the prime example of why we are such an ordinary team.
We simply get next to nothing, on the whole, out of our ENTIRE senior group.....whether injured, disinterested or whatever.
1. Murphy
2. Gibbs
3. Kreuzer
4. Walker
5. Thomas
6. Jamison
7. Everitt
8. Rowe - been serviceable in 2016 imo.
Three #1s draft picks, 2 #2 picks, etc.
Leaving 1AW out of the mix due to injury - the other 7 are actually producing less in 2016 (granted only 4 games in) than they did in 2015 - and that's saying something.
These are the guys that should be the engine of the team out there - think Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis (retired?), Burgoyne, Gibson, Roughy - you never, ever see these blokes go missing.....so why do ours repeatedly?
Focusing on Gibbs, even if he gets 30 disposals, we all know 25 of them are soft, on the outside, gets that have no real impact on the game.
Shame we can't trade players mid season.
Many on here and at the club have over rated these guys for years.
If you are top 10 draft pick and not elite by 24, questions really should be asked.
And when I say elite, that means in more than one facet of the game. Clearance, Tackling, Speed, Leadership, Disposal, Goal Kicking, Defence.
Our guys are just way too happy to say they are AFL footballers, not successful AFL footballers.
Thanks for the great pay check.
It's such a shame we don't have incentivized payments via ladder position.
Imagine if Gibbs and Murphy earned 18% less for finishing last.
I left Simmo out for obvious reasons - always tries his guts out even if his time is coming to an end.....
Gibbs is the prime example of why we are such an ordinary team.
We simply get next to nothing, on the whole, out of our ENTIRE senior group.....whether injured, disinterested or whatever.
1. Murphy
2. Gibbs
3. Kreuzer
4. Walker
5. Thomas
6. Jamison
7. Everitt
8. Rowe - been serviceable in 2016 imo.
Three #1s draft picks, 2 #2 picks, etc.
Leaving 1AW out of the mix due to injury - the other 7 are actually producing less in 2016 (granted only 4 games in) than they did in 2015 - and that's saying something.
These are the guys that should be the engine of the team out there - think Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis (retired?), Burgoyne, Gibson, Roughy - you never, ever see these blokes go missing.....so why do ours repeatedly?
Focusing on Gibbs, even if he gets 30 disposals, we all know 25 of them are soft, on the outside, gets that have no real impact on the game.
Shame we can't trade players mid season.
Have no fear FB. The winds of change are now blowing strongly through our ranks and within the next year or two only those hungry for success and willing to work hard will remain.
Many on here and at the club have over rated these guys for years.
Not me ;)
Have no fear FB. The winds of change are now blowing strongly through our ranks and within the next year or two only those hungry for success and willing to work hard will remain.
Chapters in the next Carlton FC history book - decade by decade...
1995-2004
Blues Become Most Successful Team Ever
2005-2014
The Wasted Years
2015-2024
The Long Road Back
Gibbs is the prime example of why we are such an ordinary team.
We simply get next to nothing, on the whole, out of our ENTIRE senior group.....whether injured, disinterested or whatever.
1. Murphy
2. Gibbs
3. Kreuzer
4. Walker
5. Thomas
6. Jamison
7. Everitt
8. Rowe - been serviceable in 2016 imo.
Three #1s draft picks, 2 #2 picks, etc.
Leaving 1AW out of the mix due to injury - the other 7 are actually producing less in 2016 (granted only 4 games in) than they did in 2015 - and that's saying something.
These are the guys that should be the engine of the team out there - think Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis (retired?), Burgoyne, Gibson, Roughy - you never, ever see these blokes go missing.....so why do ours repeatedly?
Focusing on Gibbs, even if he gets 30 disposals, we all know 25 of them are soft, on the outside, gets that have no real impact on the game.
Shame we can't trade players mid season.
I'll cut Murphy some slack because of an interrupted pre-season with his shoulder. Will do the same for Jammo as he's been a great servant but is obviously finished, a place all players get to eventually. Walker had a decent first game but hasn't played.
Now i've said that, I agree.
I think we can make a couple of adjustments to our team now :
B : Docherty, TBA, TBA
HB : TBA, Weitering, Plowman
C : TBA, Cripps, TBA
HF : Gibbs, TBA, TBA
F : TBA, TBA, TBA
R : TBA, Murphy, TBA
I/C : TBA, TBA, C. Curnow, TBA
I'm looking for Byrne, Sumner, Boekhorst & someone from the ruck division to put their hand up too !!
I hope that TBA guy is versatile. You have him filling alot of positions...lol!
Im already depressed enough as it is with this team this is even more depressing...
Surely we will need to smartly trade some players in and throw some big dollars at key full forward. Jonathon Patton anyone?
B : Docherty, TBA, TBA
HB : TBA, Weitering, Plowman
C : TBA, Cripps, TBA
HF : Gibbs, TBA, TBA
F : TBA, TBA, TBA
R : TBA, Murphy, TBA
I/C : TBA, TBA, C. Curnow, TBA
No change !!!
A few more players than in the past are circling though.
How does Charlie enter this conversation but Ed doesn't?
How does Charlie enter this conversation but Ed doesn't?
Excellent question!
How does Charlie enter this conversation but Ed doesn't?
I just don't think he is as good as others think he is.
I just don't think he is as good as others think he is.
Ed or Charlie?
Either way it's subjective at best. On current form not many are worth it.
Yeah, because every team has 22 A graders.
What a joke.
B : Docherty, TBA, TBA
HB : TBA, Weitering, Plowman
C : TBA, Cripps, TBA
HF : Gibbs, TBA, TBA
F : TBA, TBA, TBA
R : TBA, Murphy, TBA
I/C : TBA, TBA, C. Curnow, TBA
No change !!!
A few more players than in the past are circling though.
Sheik list management 101.
Keep 7 players, delist the rest, replace them with 34 players from one draft and trade in Jake Laverde (whoever that is) = problem solved.
If Charlie gets a spot, you'd have to include McKay, Cuningham, SOJ and probably Gowers and Glass-McCasker ;)
How does Charlie Curnow earn a spot with a couple of games and a handful of kicks, over and above McKay, SOJ etc? In this sort of exercise I'd back the kids to perform until I see something to change my mind!!
Byrne must be close to being an inclusion.
How does Charlie Curnow earn a spot with a couple of games and a handful of kicks, over and above McKay, SOJ etc? In this sort of exercise I'd back the kids to perform until I see something to change my mind!!
Remind me again how many senior games McKay & SOJ have played ???
Byrne must be close to being an inclusion.
Very !!
B : Docherty, TBA, Byrne
HB : Simpson, Weitering, Plowman
C : TBA, Cripps, TBA
HF : Gibbs, TBA, J. Silvagni
F : TBA, TBA, TBA
R : TBA, Murphy, C. Curnow
I/C : TBA, TBA, TBA, TBA
The Silvagni kid can play, he has the right attitude and will only get better with age & solid training.
The focus is clearly going to be on finding another 3-4 gun midfielders plus at least two more genuine key position players.
Some big hopes resting on McKay's shoulders right now.
B : Docherty, TBA, Byrne
HB : Simpson, Weitering, Plowman
C : TBA, Cripps, TBA
HF : Gibbs, TBA, J. Silvagni
F : TBA, TBA, TBA
R : TBA, Murphy, C. Curnow
I/C : TBA, TBA, TBA, TBA
The Silvagni kid can play, he has the right attitude and will only get better with age & solid training.
The focus is clearly going to be on finding another 3-4 gun midfielders plus at least two more genuine key position players.
Some big hopes resting on McKay's shoulders right now.
Phillips has all the attributes of becoming a very good ruckman.
The Silvagni kid can play, he has the right attitude and will only get better with age & solid training.
The focus is clearly going to be on finding another 3-4 gun midfielders plus at least two more genuine key position players.
Some big hopes resting on McKay's shoulders right now.
The strange thing for me is that of the players we picked up in the draft last year the one I had the most doubts about making it was Silvagni.
At the moment he is the one I'm least concerned about.
He has the skills but also the football smarts.
Weitering is obviously a clear standout of the group in terms of class.
My concerns with him are that in the early years he is not called upon to do too much.
He's picked up a few injuries in his short career. He was hurting again with a calf injury yesterday but was sent out again.
In the end it no doubt helped us get as close as we did but it wouldn't surprise to see him miss a couple of games now.
The strange thing for me is that of the players we picked up in the draft last year the one I had the most doubts about making it was Silvagni.
At the moment he is the one I'm least concerned about.
He has the skills but also the football smarts.
Weitering is obviously a clear standout of the group in terms of class.
My concerns with him are that in the early years he is not called upon to do too much.
He's picked up a few injuries in his short career. He was hurting again with a calf injury yesterday but was sent out again.
In the end it no doubt helped us get as close as we did but it wouldn't surprise to see him miss a couple of games now.
He is getting knocked about because he is treated like a senior player.
He has been told to expect different treatment to the other draftees because he is elite.
He loves the responsibility he has been given and he loves the the coach.
He is getting knocked about because he is treated like a senior player.
He has been told to expect different treatment to the other draftees because he is elite.
He loves the responsibility he has been given and he loves the the coach.
Which is to be expected. If you play at that level it's required.
He may love that responsibility and he may love the coach.That's largely irrelevant.
The onus is on the club to ensure that he is looked after.
That doesn't mean put him in cotton wool but they need to manage his development and execute a proper regard in the terms of managing his injuries. I'm not saying they're not doing that, but my concern here is that while it's fair enough to treat him as a senior athlete (with a senior body) he has had a few knocks and niggly injuries very early in his career.
Which is to be expected. If you play at that level it's required.
He may love that responsibility and he may love the coach.That's largely irrelevant.
The onus is on the club to ensure that he is looked after.
That doesn't mean put him in cotton wool but they need to manage his development and execute a proper regard in the terms of managing his injuries. I'm not saying they're not doing that, but my concern here is that while it's fair enough to treat him as a senior athlete (with a senior body) he has had a few knocks and niggly injuries very early in his career.
Loving the coach won't be irrelevant when it comes to re-signing.
We want this bloke long term and his relationship with BB is critical.
My vision of our future team is more optimistic
B. Buckley Jaksch Plowman
H/B Byrne Weitering Docherty
C. Boekhorst Cripps DVR
H/F Silvagni McKay Lamb
F. Gorringe C.Curnow Sumner
R. Phillips Graham Cunningham
I/C Kerridge Gibbs Pick 1, Pick 2 2017 Draft
Emerg: Korcheck, Glass-McCasker Pick 3, Pick 4, Pick 5 2017 Draft
Other than Gibbs, these players are all born in 1991 or later.
Here it is, the real foundation for the future :
B : Marchbank, Macreadie, TBA
HB : Docherty, TBA, Plowman
C : Williamson, Cripps, Fisher
HF : TBA, Weitering, J. Silvagni
F : TBA, TBA, Petrevski-Seton
R : TBA, TBA, C. Curnow
I/C : TBA, TBA, TBA, TBA
If McKay, Cuningham, Kerr & Polson make the grade as well, look out, we are on our way.
Genuinely can't wait for the next two draft & trade periods to see who we unveil to fill those last 11 places.
The competition is opening up as the traditional blue chip teams start to tumble and we might be playing finals a tad earlier than expected, we probably need another couple of drafts/trade periods to fully assemble the list but I think our rise is going to be helped by the fall of teams who have looked short term but will pay for their lack of long term planning...we might be lucky and be peaking when there are only a couple of real challengers.
Here it is, the real foundation for the future :
B : Marchbank, Macreadie, TBA
HB : Docherty, TBA, Plowman
C : Williamson, Cripps, Fisher
HF : TBA, Weitering, J. Silvagni
F : TBA, TBA, Petrevski-Seton
R : TBA, TBA, C. Curnow
I/C : TBA, TBA, TBA, TBA
If McKay, Cuningham, Kerr & Polson make the grade as well, look out, we are on our way.
Genuinely can't wait for the next two draft & trade periods to see who we unveil to fill those last 11 places.
Pickett? only just 20 i think....
^^
Unproven but he has time on his side.
In fairness to the Sheik, he has been consistent and has only elevated people into this group who show that they have the right stuff and have played some good consistent footy.
B: Docherty Weitering Plowman
HB: Byrne Marchbank Williamson
C: Fisher Cripps SPS
HF: Silvagni Kerr Curnow
F: Pickett McKay Jaksch
R: xxxxxx Cunningham Graham
IC: Polsen Lebois Macreadie xxxxx
This'll be fun. I'll play.
So our 22 that take us to the final 4 next year. Okay:
Docherty Weitering Plowman
Simpson Marchbank Williamson
Curnow C Cripps Murphy
Silvagni J Casboult Samo P-S
Pickett McKay Fisher
Kreuzer Fyffe Curnow E
Int: Byrne, Macreadie, Wright, Thomas
Emerg: Palmer, Silvagni A, Polson, Le Bois.
Best players in the NBs Premiership victory: our first round pick 2017, our second round pick 2017, S Kerridge, B Smedts, A Phillips, P Kerr (all of whom made important contributions to the senior side throughout 2018).
I'll play too... :D A team that can finish top 4 and contend.
But I'm leaving a few blanks and question marks and am thinking 2019-20
B Williamson Weitering Byrne
HB Docherty Marchbank Plowman
C C Curnow Cripps Murphy ?
HF J Silvagni S. P Seton
F Wright
R Kruezer ?
I/C Macreadie Fisher E Curnow
EM Smedts
Question marks on Kruezer and Murphys bodies holding on that long
I've left Gibbs Casboult, Rowe and Daisy out ..... but wouldn't be upset if they hung on
Unsure and time will tell on..... Mckay Kerr Pickett Cunningham Phillips Polson Graham Le Bois Buckley Boakhorst ( probably have missed a couple here )
hmmm still a few pieces missing and question marks there :(