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Topic: Trumpled (Alternative Leading) (Read 408836 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3255 –
Quote from: Lods on
But it wasn't Biden (or rather the folks looking after him) who held up the aid to Ukraine. It was the Republicans, probably at the behest of Trump who held up that aid by tying it to extracting extra concessions on other issues like the border security.
 
Mav warned about this when the war was in its infancy. If Trump wins you can probably kiss Ukraine goodbye. NATO wouldn't be able to rely on the USA. We'd probably need to worry about the strength of our own alliances. MAGA is an American first, isolationist movement. The security and well being of other countries doesn't really rate.

The Democrats don't get a free pass though.
If Biden's their candidate then Trump's a real chance....and that's on them.
Apart from the issues with economy, the other big issues in this election are border security and American jobs being lost to other countries. These are resonating when you hear American voters asked about the issues thaty concern them.

In the end the contest will boil down to whether the Americans would prefer a president largely controlled by his 'carers' or a president no-one is really capable of controlling.
That would seem an easy choice for us.
Apparently not so for the USA.


Why is Ukraine anyone else's problem?

Curious.   My biggest gripe with the usa is its interference in international conflict is rather self serving anyway.

I.e.  Israel in Palestine is their horse being backed so the strong condemnation isn't occurring.   Meanwhile Ukraine falling to Russia is their horse not being backed in favour of a rival so everyone must intervene. 

Ultimately in both cases they don't care about anything but their own interests. Nothing wrong with that, but let's not wax lyrically about one party or the other here and another nation and its rather unrelated geo politics.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3256 –
Quote from: PaulP on
If the American judicial system wasn't so broken and corrupt, this discussion wouldn't even be happening.
If the American judicial system wasn't so broken, they'd have wings in prisons just for presidents and ex-presidents. Biden would be in a cell with Trump and Obama on either side. Clinton in the cell after that.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3257 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
Why is Ukraine anyone else's problem?

Without being overly dramatic...Folks probably said the same thing about Czechoslovakia and Poland in the late 1930s.
Once Ukraine is 'annexed' where to next for a Russian president who seems intent on 'returning' Russian borders to something resembling the USSR

There is a pretty good reason why we should be concerned.
There's a good reason why the American response is important...because there may come a time when we need to be concerned about the strength of our own relationship with the USA.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3258 –
Trump's charges are real, and he might suffer financial penalties as well, the only thing saving him from the wolves is the fear they have he might again be President and abuse his power to take revenge on them, that's what is broken in the USA political system, it's fairly obvious.

The bulk of the allegations against US officials are fake, made up by huckster lunatics and Russian operatives on social media, if you believe them you are just a pawn in the international game of politics and power. But they don't have to fear the bulk of Trump's competitors including Biden, because they are nobodies and unlike Trump they aren't on the revenge radar.

I laugh at people who seem to think Trump is going to fill pockets full of cash, he will but only his own, and he does that by employing Mexicans and West Indians and 1/2 local wages. He wouldn't stop to piss on an American citizen on fire, he'd probably command the security staff not to waste the water.

There significant irony in Trump boosters accusing Biden of devilish financial deeds, as far as I can tell, Biden is just a milder / moderate version of Trump. At the top end of US politics, they all are mild versions of Trump, because they are all motivated by wealth and power, they just aren't as extreme as Trump!
The Force Awakens!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3259 –
Quote from: Lods on
Without being overly dramatic...Folks probably said the same thing about Czechoslovakia and Poland in the late 1930s.
Once Ukraine is 'annexed' where to next for a Russian president who seems intent on 'returning' Russian borders to something resembling the USSR
The most shocking thing about this is how long it took for mainstream media to realise Putin has not target boundary, he won't stop.
The Force Awakens!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3260 –
Ukraine is of strategic importance bordering NATO countries, has shared power grids that Russia feed and Putin wants his place in history like other Russian leaders and wants to be a war hero. Russia also have a massive say in world economics via Gas, Oil etc and that affects us all. He wants to reclaim rogue ex Russian states and have the old USSR back together.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3261 –
If Trump wins Ukraine is finished, eastern Europe is in trouble and the knock on effect will promote others to jump the fence and start problems.  I fear for us.   Big enemies and no assistance forthcoming.

Putin is trying to complete Stalin's plans from 1945.  Who thinks the tanks are going to stop at the Moselle next time?
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3262 –
In some ways Trump is quite unique, in other ways he is properly representative of a growing global trend for leaders as right wing populist, buffoonish caricatures : South America, India, Italy and many others. I would include ScoMo in this as well. The triumph of spectacle and corporate tyranny, extolling the virtues of Neo-liberalism and a non reality based world view.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3263 –
Before Trump became president everyone was saying he's dangerous and he will start all of these wars but the opposite happened.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3264 –
He is dangerous - the war / no war thing is one part of a larger whole.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3265 –
Quote from: Lods on
Without being overly dramatic...Folks probably said the same thing about Czechoslovakia and Poland in the late 1930s.
Once Ukraine is 'annexed' where to next for a Russian president who seems intent on 'returning' Russian borders to something resembling the USSR

There is a pretty good reason why we should be concerned.
There's a good reason why the American response is important...because there may come a time when we need to be concerned about the strength of our own relationship with the USA.


I didn't see anyone getting too worked up about the USA marching into Iraq to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

Those are the "good guys" invading.  In war there are no good guys. Only victims.

There's the good old brand of freedom being dished out by the USA that no one cares about.  Until they do.  Ukraine or Russia makes no difference.   There is no what next. There is no slippery slope.  All there is is the next war for the next Territory or resource which will continue for eternity whilst people walk the earth.

Ukraine should have minimal impact by regime change in the states and has nothing to do with the price of fish because that war or proxy war lives and dies by NATO.  The end.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3266 –
Quote from: PaulP on
He is dangerous - the war / no war thing is one part of a larger whole.

We made it through his first term.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3267 –
Quote from: madbluboy on
We made it through his first term.

Both God and the devil reside in the details. You need to look beyond paid off, sycophantic media outlets.
 

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #3268 –
Quote from: Thryleon on
I didn't see anyone getting too worked up about the USA marching into Iraq to overthrow Saddam Hussein.

Those are the "good guys" invading.  In war there are no good guys. Only victims.

There's the good old brand of freedom being dished out by the USA that no one cares about.  Until they do.  Ukraine or Russia makes no difference.   There is no what next. There is no slippery slope.  All there is is the next war for the next Territory or resource which will continue for eternity whilst people walk the earth.

Ukraine should have minimal impact by regime change in the states and has nothing to do with the price of fish because that war or proxy war lives and dies by NATO.  The end.
re: Saddam,The supposed good guys were looking after their Oil, the USA only get involved where there is a dollar to be made or saved. As Prof suggested Ukraine might be in trouble if Trump gets in and Id be worried if I was living in Taiwan too...