The game is set for 1915 (that's 7:15 in the evening).
It will be nice to be playing the Old Enemy again at the hone of AFLW football.
Tayla Harris has been passed as fit to play.
It will be very interesting to see what our line-up looks like.
The game is set for 1915 (that's 7:15 in the evening).
It will be nice to be playing the Old Enemy again at the hone of AFLW football.
Tayla Harris has been passed as fit to play.
It will be very interesting to see what our line-up looks like.
As far as i can tell, everyone is fit to play.
Even Maddie Guerrin who came across with an ACL managed to get through the praccy match last week.
Some of the new draftees are leading the way in the running/endurance stuff so it could be a very solid side with plenty of competition.
A couple of position changes....
Nic Stevens will play forward again.
Jess Hosking will go in search of her first goal in a move from the backline to the forwardline.
Darcy Vescio is fitter than ever and will spend more time in the middle.
Both Gibbs and Jones performed well against the saints.
My guess....
FB: G. Pound C. Wilson
HB: V. Laloifi K. Harrington K. Loynes
C: D. Vescio G. Egan L. McEvoy
HF: G. Gee N. Stevens B. Walker
FF: J. Hosking T. Harris
R: A. Downie M. Prespakis. E. O'Dea
INT: B. Moody, N. Plane, A. McKay, S. Gibbs, C. Jones
EMG: J. Edwards, L. Brazzale, M. Hill, M. Guerrin
Damn! We'll miss Lucy McEvoy (fractured cheekbone) and Brooke Walker (foot) :(
Backs: Brooke Vernon Natalie Plane
Half-backs: Mua Laloifi Charlotte Wilson Kerryn Harrington
Centreline: Lauren Brazzale Elise O'Dea Katie Loynes
Half-forwards: Mimi Hill Tayla Harris Darcy Vescio
Forwards: Nicola Stevens Jess Hosking
Followers: Breann Moody Madison Prespakis Georgia Gee
Interchange: Maddy Guerin Alison Downie Abbie McKay Grace Egan Charlotte Hammans
Emergencies: Jess Edwards Daisy Walker
New: Maddy Guerin (Melb) Elise O'Dea (Melb) Charlotte Hammans (GC) Mimi Hill (drafted)
Missing:
Lucy McEvoy - Cheekbone
Brooke Walker - Foot
Gab Pound - Hand
We look just a bit slower in the absence of Walker and the departure of S.Hosking, I hope this doesn't bite us.
We look just a bit slower in the absence of Walker and the departure of S.Hosking, I hope this doesn't bite us.
Mimi Hill was supposedly setting the ground alight during pre-season. Good running from her an improvement over Hosking in that regard.
Walker will be missed with ability to break the lines and be hard to tackle.
Most people have glossed over Gab Pound though. AA in 2019. Not easily replaced.
O'Dea will be the big upgrade through the middle though. We need it against the pies as its their strongest area.
Game time
Game time
Someone forgot to tell our girls.
After withstanding an avalanche of inside 50's, our defense has started to falter.
Cannot get the ball inside 50.
Can not find a teammate by foot.
Umpires are very rusty.....as are the players.
Good to see that crapness is not limited to the men's team. It's a club wide affliction... Jesus I'm sick of seeing this club roll over at every opportunity...
Good to see that crapness is not limited to the men's team. It's a club wide affliction... Jesus I'm sick of seeing this club roll over at every opportunity...
Did Maddy Prespakis roll over when hit by Bri Davey?
The girls are hurting. The girls are still fighting. The girls will not roll over like the men do.
Dont normally watch the AFLW but with the Blues hyped up I thought I might have another look and its been disappointing.
Pies girls seem bigger, better skilled and generally have more composure with ball in hand, Maddy P playing a lone hand in the middle and the girls down back look undersized and lacking much nous unlike the Collingwood defense who are very solid.
Dont normally watch the AFLW but with the Blues hyped up I thought I might have another look and its been disappointing.
Pies girls seem bigger, better skilled and generally have more composure with ball in hand, Maddy P playing a lone hand in the middle and the girls down back look undersized and lacking much nous unlike the Collingwood defense who are very solid.
I'm pretty sure the pies are at full strength.
We are missing 3 starters. (Not including Dalton who is sitting out the year)
When you have 16 on the ground, and only 30 to choose from, it hurts.
When i did my mock team, i left out a couple of players, notably Brazzale, simply because kicking skills are not up to scratch. It is showing tonight.
Could've played a couple other, better skilled players, and it'd make a difference.
Our girls have heart and won't throw in the towel. Half is a good motivator and should give us a good start. Hopefully we can use it.
Umpire must be a pies supporter. He will not pay us a free for holding the ball.
Credit where credit is due; Carlton have strived for consistency across both the Men's and Women's teams and it really does appear they have this now.
Credit where credit is due; Carlton have strived for consistency across both the Men's and Women's teams and it really does appear they have this now.
Funny, i haven't heard the final siren yet.
8 points in it....
Our girls don't give up. Have faith.
Scoreless first two quarters hurt.
Good fight back, but not good enough.
1 goal loss.
This will be an eye opener and remind the girls that being favourites does not mean you get a win. They'll dig deep and not give up a 4 goal (half a game) headstart.
Great to see Spanner is having a ripper preseason, I’m tipping him to have a big 2021...
Good effort to get back into it, final siren is a bit controversial, the last quarter is about 3 minutes shorter than the other quarters.
I fear a clear problem with AFLW is the coaches, they are making the game a piss-weak version of the men's game. The tagging tactics tonight degraded what could have been a much better spectacle. I stated in the first season the girls game needed to evolve in the different direction, that hasn't happened, and the girls do not have the power or speed to break tags, tonight Prespakis had two opponents hanging off her before she even got near the footy and not a free kick in sight. Ditto for Harris.
It's mental midgets bringing the copycat men's tactics to AFLW that will destroy the multi-million dollar investment, the competition will be broke within decade because people won't pay to watch a lesser version of the men's game which is where the coaches have it heading. If I was the government I wouldn't spend a cent more until I see a change in attitude and direction, the problem isn't the players or skills, it's an administrative and officiation issue.
The girls game needs to be far more open, it needs some progressive coaches, administration and umpiring if it is to survive and profit.
FWIW, I thought the umpires came good in the second half after a pretty ordinary start, early on there were some Barry Crockers, outright guessing. But by the second half they had settled down, I was pleased to hear the senior umpire interjecting more frequently in the second half. I suspect that is the structure we need in AFL with a senior central umpire having the ability to over-rule and interject.
Good effort to get back into it, final siren is a bit controversial, the last quarter is about 3 minutes shorter than the other quarters.
I fear a clear problem with AFLW is the coaches, they are making the game a piss-weak version of the men's game. The tagging tactics tonight degraded what could have been a much better spectacle. I stated in the first season the girls game needed to evolve in the different direction, that hasn't happened, and the girls do not have the power or speed to break tags, tonight Prespakis had two opponents hanging off her before she even got near the footy and not a free kick in sight. Ditto for Harris.
It's mental midgets bringing the copycat men's tactics to AFLW that will destroy the multi-million dollar investment, the competition will be broke within decade because people won't pay to watch a lesser version of the men's game which is where the coaches have it heading. If I was the government I wouldn't spend a cent more until I see a change in attitude and direction, the problem isn't the players or skills, it's an administrative and officiation issue.
The girls game needs to be far more open, it needs some progressive coaches, administration and umpiring if it is to survive and profit.
FWIW, I thought the umpires came good in the second half after a pretty ordinary start, early on there were some Barry Crockers, outright guessing. But by the second half they had settled down, I was pleased to hear the senior umpire interjecting more frequently in the second half. I suspect that is the structure we need in AFL with a senior central umpire having the ability to over-rule and interject.
People want to win matches not entertain.
Rule #1, put hard tags on your opposition best players.
If that worked, then its up to US to work out how to deal with it, not whinge and moan about the spectacle.
We are so self important, but footy has never been about entertaining fans, and has always been about winning footy matches.
the sooner people who have a whine about the entertainment realise that, the happier they will be with the end product (particularly when their team wins).
Good effort to get back into it, final siren is a bit controversial, the last quarter is about 3 minutes shorter than the other quarters.
I fear a clear problem with AFLW is the coaches, they are making the game a piss-weak version of the men's game. The tagging tactics tonight degraded what could have been a much better spectacle. I stated in the first season the girls game needed to evolve in the different direction, that hasn't happened, and the girls do not have the power or speed to break tags, tonight Prespakis had two opponents hanging off her before she even got near the footy and not a free kick in sight. Ditto for Harris.
It's mental midgets bringing the copycat men's tactics to AFLW that will destroy the multi-million dollar investment, the competition will be broke within decade because people won't pay to watch a lesser version of the men's game which is where the coaches have it heading. If I was the government I wouldn't spend a cent more until I see a change in attitude and direction, the problem isn't the players or skills, it's an administrative and officiation issue.
The girls game needs to be far more open, it needs some progressive coaches, administration and umpiring if it is to survive and profit.
FWIW, I thought the umpires came good in the second half after a pretty ordinary start, early on there were some Barry Crockers, outright guessing. But by the second half they had settled down, I was pleased to hear the senior umpire interjecting more frequently in the second half. I suspect that is the structure we need in AFL with a senior central umpire having the ability to over-rule and interject.
Some really excellent observations here, Spotted One.
From the get-go of the AFLW I could not for the life of me understand why the gals played on a full sized ground with numbers similar to the men.
For the first quarter of last night's game to yield 1 behind is simply appalling and unlikely to serve as an advertisement for the game and it's growth. Total yawn material.
We need urgent rule changes/modifications to help this game appeal to gals throughout the country as something they'd like to try... and make it appeal to people throughout the country as something they'd like to watch. I turned off early in the 2nd qtr because it was just too negative/defensive.
And the number of 'holding the ball/incorrect disposals' that the gals got away with was tiresome.
People want to win matches not entertain.
Rule #1, put hard tags on your opposition best players.
If that worked, then its up to US to work out how to deal with it, not whinge and moan about the spectacle.
We are so self important, but footy has never been about entertaining fans, and has always been about winning footy matches.
the sooner people who have a whine about the entertainment realise that, the happier they will be with the end product (particularly when their team wins).
I think you've missed the point, my commentary was not about the spectacle as a sport, it was about it's ability to compete for dollars and survival against elite male sport to achieve a parity.
Playing the same game as the men, using the same tactics, is surely a dead end because the girls won't even achieve parity with the efforts of teenage boys! So how can a sport survive in a professional sphere to achieve wage and career parity when it's effectively 3rd or 4th tier at best? As a sporting spectacle they are not even on parity with boys U15s!
So I maintain it needs a style and optic all of it's own.
People will try to paint me as an AFLW troll for writing the above commentary, particularly those who think the game should be the same for all genders and ages, which it isn't anyway already. I've been a booster for AFLW from the start, but it's clear to me it cannot be the same game as men.
We need urgent rule changes/modifications to help this game appeal to gals throughout the country as something they'd like to try... and make it appeal to people throughout the country as something they'd like to watch. I turned off early in the 2nd qtr because it was just too negative/defensive.
And the number of 'holding the ball/incorrect disposals' that the gals got away with was tiresome.
I realise the girls will resist this, they want to play the same sport under the same rules, but as a professional spectacle competing against the mens version it's not going to thrive, it may survive but will those piling in millions of dollars really be happy with just a survival?
Many who live in societies where alternative sports are available to the boring global 1-Nil soccer games often vote with our feet to some alternativeI think you've missed the point, my commentary was not about the spectacle as a sport, it was about it's ability to compete for dollars and survival against elite male sport to achieve a parity.
Playing the same game as the men, using the same tactics, is surely a dead end because the girls won't even achieve parity with the efforts of teenage boys! So how can a sport survive in a professional sphere to achieve wage and career parity when it's effectively 3rd or 4th tier at best? As a sporting spectacle they are not even on parity with boys U15s!
So I maintain it needs a style and optic all of it's own.
People will try to paint me as an AFLW troll for writing the above commentary, particularly those who think the game should be the same for all genders and ages, which it isn't anyway already. I've been a booster for AFLW from the start, but it's clear to me it cannot be the same game as men.
I'm not sure playing a dumbed down game will help the AFLW improve the standard, I dont follow the AFLW so am no expert but I watched last night and you have a couple of players on each team capable of playing at a decent standard, a few in the might improve phase and then some who have real limitations.
Prespakis and Lambert stood out as players who need to be playing under the same conditions as the men and to make them play a T20 version would be detrimental to them and the game. Its a case of being patient and waiting till more girls can play at the standard of the two I mentioned which means better coaching, more resources and attracting more players .
Good to see our women's team mimic the men's....lol. Give away a big headstart and a run of goals to the opposition then a big fightback to just lose.
I'm not sure playing a dumbed down game will help the AFLW improve the standard, I dont follow the AFLW so am no expert but I watched last night and you have a couple of players on each team capable of playing at a decent standard, a few in the might improve phase and then some who have real limitations.
Prespakis and Lambert stood out as players who need to be playing under the same conditions as the men and to make them play a T20 version would be detrimental to them and the game. Its a case of being patient and waiting till more girls can play at the standard of the two I mentioned which means better coaching, more resources and attracting more players .
Pretty much summed up most team sports compositions.
Good to see our women's team mimic the men's....lol. Give away a big headstart and a run of goals to the opposition then a big fightback to just lose.
....not to mention go to sleep for 10 minutes and let the opposition bang on a series of cheap goals.
Laj, Tonyo, I think that was Spanner's point.
Good to see our women's team mimic the men's....lol. Give away a big headstart and a run of goals to the opposition then a big fightback to just lose.
At least we know the club is on the same page for both the mens and womens team, how often though do you see a team hyped up with expectation to do well, then think they just have to rock up to win and then get knocked over.
Pies girls seem bigger, better skilled and generally have more composure with ball in hand, Maddy P playing a lone hand in the middle and the girls down back look undersized and lacking much nous unlike the Collingwood defense who are very solid.
One of the things that bitterly disappointed me about last night was our inability to get the ball to a team mate. Granted that we were under a fair bit of pressure and found it hard to generate the loose man ... er, woman, but our kicking into the forward line was poor and game our forward very little chance. We just bombed it long and hoped.
Collingwood were also very good in the middle early. The clearances were 18 to 6 at half time, yet we had hands on the ball first almost every time. We need to work on blocking to help Maddie P. Last night they were hunting her, and she still got the ball 18 times.
Umpire must be a pies supporter. He will not pay us a free for holding the ball.
Actually, Krudd, we managed to get a LOT of holding the ball decisions. Our tackling was brilliant all night. Unfortunately we should have got quite a few more, especially in the last quarter.
One of the things I liked the best of the night was our physicality. They may have out-run us, but we ran them down so many times! It was lovely to see. Our first 6 frees were holding the ball, from really good run-downs. Pity they forgot about it late in the game. Could have been the difference.
Credit where credit is due; Carlton have strived for consistency across both the Men's and Women's teams and it really does appear they have this now.
Indeed, there were a LOT of similarities. Good running and chasing. Poor forward work. Ordinary disposal. Real Guts and determination. Inability to find a forward. Not many crumbing goals.
In the first season Darcy Vescio got a lot of crumbing goals. We got a lot in the square, especially in the rough and tumble. We no longer do that. Darcy is struggling to make the impact she did early on, her kicking has dropped off and she is not holding one grab marks any longer.
Georgie Gee is a great little battler, but she can't hold her marks under physical pressure. She got her hands to the ball so many times last night, but was a little fumbly. A lot of our players fumbled at the wrong time, allowing Collingwood players to get into the contest.
Scoreless first two quarters hurt.
Absolutely. Lethal. And yet we still could have won that game with only a little luck. Collingwood held on well, but they were holding on as hard as they could. Give us a couple more more and the result could well have been different.
Just a few more points. I am moving house and things are pretty chaotic around here.
[1] I would have tagged Davey into extinction. if it is good enough for Maddie P to be manhandled like that, then it is good enough for their best player.
[2] We missed Walker and Dalton. Our forward line lacked the pace to make the most of some of our moves. Dalton, in particular, really gives us something with her pace and ferocity.
[3] We only have one marking target in the forward half. That is not a recipe for success. It is no good having Darcy Vescio as the 2nd marking target when she isn't taking them and has to play on their taller, stronger defenders.
[4] We need to learn how to shepherd and block, so our players get a decent run at the ball. Our defence appears to be reasonable at it: the Collingwood forward took about 2 marks for the night. But our mids were getting smashed. Especially Maddie P. She got the ball in her hands at almost every centre contest, but usually had to handball under pressure. After 2 or 3 handballs, we'd turn it over and Collingwood would get the centre clearance.
[5] Tayla got a little of her own back, even though she didn't kick a goal. She won a lot more contests than she lost and was better than she has been on the ground. Her kicking was ordinary, and shows she hasn't been training on it enough. Her opponent got a lot of kicks when we missed the target, or bombed it away; she didn't actually beat Tayla very often at all.
[6] The end appears to be coming for Alison Downie. She was reasonable in the centre square, even against a taller opponent, but her work around the ground or in the forward half was non-existent. We can't afford that if she isn't winning in the ruck.
[7] Bree Moody, on the other hand, was excellent around the ground and made a lot fewer mistakes than recently. But she didn't seem to have her normal huge leap. She did OK in the ruck, but we didn't dominate it, which we do when we win.
One of the things that bitterly disappointed me about last night was our inability to get the ball to a team mate. Granted that we were under a fair bit of pressure and found it hard to generate the loose man ... er, woman, but our kicking into the forward line was poor and game our forward very little chance. We just bombed it long and hoped.
Collingwood were also very good in the middle early. The clearances were 18 to 6 at half time, yet we had hands on the ball first almost every time. We need to work on blocking to help Maddie P. Last night they were hunting her, and she still got the ball 18 times.
They were definitely a lot slicker than us by hand, they seemed to get into space and out the congestion much easier. We took that split second too long giving off the handball.
Actually, Krudd, we managed to get a LOT of holding the ball decisions. Our tackling was brilliant all night. Unfortunately we should have got quite a few more, especially in the last quarter.
I think i wrote that in the first half. As someone else mentioned, the umpiring in the second half was much improved.
Although granted a 'team mark' after about 3 pies players had their hands on it, including 1 player literally handed it to another player was a step too far.
[2] We missed Walker and Dalton. Our forward line lacked the pace to make the most of some of our moves. Dalton, in particular, really gives us something with her pace and ferocity.
[3] We only have one marking target in the forward half. That is not a recipe for success. It is no good having Darcy Vescio as the 2nd marking target when she isn't taking them and has to play on their taller, stronger defenders.
[4] We need to learn how to shepherd and block, so our players get a decent run at the ball. Our defence appears to be reasonable at it: the Collingwood forward took about 2 marks for the night. But our mids were getting smashed. Especially Maddie P. She got the ball in her hands at almost every centre contest, but usually had to handball under pressure. After 2 or 3 handballs, we'd turn it over and Collingwood would get the centre clearance.
[5] Tayla got a little of her own back, even though she didn't kick a goal. She won a lot more contests than she lost and was better than she has been on the ground. Her kicking was ordinary, and shows she hasn't been training on it enough. Her opponent got a lot of kicks when we missed the target, or bombed it away; she didn't actually beat Tayla very often at all.
This is the ball game.
We couldn't create enough run and carry (normally provided by Dalton + Walker) thus we allowed the pies to get back in defense and create more contests. Bombing long to those contests did not work in our favour because Nic Stevens (our other marking target) could not hold a mark and Tayla had to beat extras. Our kicks to advantage was very non-existent all over the ground, but especially going inside 50. We need to use the ball better.
Charlotte Wilson can not kick. We can not play keepings off in the back half with Wilson being in the chain as its 50-50 whether she will turn it over. Let her defend, and get the ball out of there so she doesn't have to kick it.
Lauren Brazzalle can boot the ball as long as anyone, but cannot hit a target. Her playing as a winger is a blessing and a curse. Generates run and carry but can turn it over and we get hurt the other way with everyone out of position. I thought she was one of our best in the last because we simply needed the ball forward....but we need to be smarter with that last kick.
Georgia Gee and Darcy Vescio are our best users of the ball but are both wasted as crumbers in our forward line. We need at least 1 to be up the ground getting the ball inside 50, especially when we are struggling like we were in the first half.
I think i wrote that in the first half. As someone else mentioned, the umpiring in the second half was much improved.
Although granted a 'team mark' after about 3 pies players had their hands on it, including 1 player literally handed it to another player was a step too far.
That one was an absolute shocker. As I screamed out a number of times during the game, they guessed and guessed incorrectly.
Just a few more points. I am moving house and things are pretty chaotic around here.
[1] I would have tagged Davey into extinction. if it is good enough for Maddie P to be manhandled like that, then it is good enough for their best player.
I admire Half for not doing it and I doubt Harf is the problem, I think his coaching opponent standing hard tag extra numbers on Prespakis and Harris is the problem and degrading the AFLW spectacle.
McGuire lambasted us a couple of years back for using those stopping tactics against them, I wonder if McGuire high fived his coach or gave him a stern lecture after that win, because as a tactic tagging is largely killing the AFLW spectacle.
The solution is to take it out of the coaches hands altogether, and get the umpires penalising taggers for early holds or obstructions regardless of whether they think a player was hindered or not. I'd rather see a few weeks of countless free kicks putting an end to this tactic than suffer years of scrum based fumbling.
I think one of the things we'll see as this competition progresses is a fairly quick improvement in the quality of the general play and the skills needed at this level
Players who may be stars in the early years will come back to the pack and be surpassed as the newer improved 'models' of AFLW player emerges.
It'll probably take some years for a settled consistency to develop.
I think one of the things we'll see as this competition progresses is a fairly quick improvement in the quality of the general play and the skills needed at this level
Players who may be stars in the early years will come back to the pack and be surpassed as the newer improved 'models' of AFLW player emerges.
It'll probably take some years for a settled consistency to develop.
Agree lods.
Not sure if you watched the game, but i reckon our skills were worse than previous.
I'm sure some of that could be due to being 10 months between matches and a bit of rust..
Didn't we get done by the Pies first up last year and then went on to be contenders?? A rusty start with a good finish.....like a good Peter Moody filly, they'll be better for the run!
Didn't we get done by the Pies first up last year and then went on to be contenders?? A rusty start with a good finish.....like a good Peter Moody filly, they'll be better for the run!
I think we played them round 2 last year
Edit. Yeah r2 loss. R1 was vs tigers.
Fun fact, our only loss last year was against the pies. Undefeated apart from that.
Agree lods.
Not sure if you watched the game, but i reckon our skills were worse than previous.
I'm sure some of that could be due to being 10 months between matches and a bit of rust..
@Lods @kruddler Yes, we've been predicting this evolution for a couple of seasons now, and it looks like it will take a few more, but .......................
Watching some of the other games a couple were quite open matches with very little tagging, the skills looked better, the game was faster, they were generally a much much better spectacle. Traditionally this is not what AFL coaches want, but it's much much better for the fans to see players set free!
The rather arbitrary decision regarding which tactics get priority has an effect.