A twilight game at the Adelaide Oval against Freo, who are also unbeaten.
Looks like Marchy will miss with concussion, should be an easy swap with either Kemp or Young.
Top four clash on neutral territory.
This was the round last year when it all started to unravel. The Club hasn't won at the Adelaide Oval since 1972. Usually play alright against Fremantle.
Looks like Marchy will miss with concussion, should be an easy swap with either Kemp or Young.
Both played reasonably well in the Magoos but Kemp was switched forward. Freo play three KPFs, and Jackson, so we might go with Young.
Young got a fair bit of the ball, but the North key forwards dominated and took big marks, especially after Kemp was moved forward.
Kemp's kicking in defence was ordinary, but his goal was brilliant. He offers more flexibility, but I think Young might come in.
I think freos forwards aren't that tall but have a bit of toe. Will be interesting to see how we go. For mine I'd be bringing back a smaller back or a medium tall for this one. Not enough match ups to be too tall.
I think freos forwards aren't that tall but have a bit of toe.
The Freo F50 is taller than us, three KPFs over 195cm and Jackson rests forward!
Could be a tough week for TDK, Jackson is in good form.
Freo have finally realised smashing Jackson in the ruck trying to win taps means nothing when you have a player with his sort of ground skill and agility. If a fan was naïve enough just to look at the rucks stats it would suggest O'Brien smashed Jackson, but the ruck stats are meaningless, Jackson made O'Brien look like a traffic cone.
When the ball got locked into the Freo F50, Treacy took some of the ruck and Jackson became a mobile 4th KPF in Charlie style.
The Freo F50 is taller than us, three KPFs over 195cm and Jackson rests forward!
Could be a tough week for TDK, Jackson is in good form.
Freo have finally realised smashing Jackson in the ruck trying to win taps means nothing when you have a player with his sort of ground skill and agility. If a fan was naïve enough just to look at the rucks stats it would suggest O'Brien smashed Jackson, but the ruck stats are meaningless, Jackson made O'Brien look like a traffic cone.
When the ball got locked into the Freo F50, Treacy took some of the ruck and Jackson became a mobile 4th KPF in Charlie style.
yeah but who are they? Amiss is the only one that looks promising. Taberner is a good size but he's a bit of a dud, and treacy is a relative unknown quantity.
Remember height is one thing the ability to perform at the level is another.
Next four games - three will be against teams in the top four. If we are deserving of top two finish then next month will shape that.
Freo
Adelaide
GWS
Geelong
Next four games - three will be against teams in the top four. If we are deserving of top two finish then next month will shape that.
Freo
Adelaide
GWS
Geelong
No easy games in this group. Walsh back soon will help us. We need all the help we can get. Considering no Doc, and no Jack. Plus limited ruck stocks. Our pressure will be put to the test. If that holds up we could win more of these games than we expect. Bring on the mental focus Voss. Bring that on.
No easy games in this group. Walsh back soon will help us. We need all the help we can get. Considering no Doc, and no Jack. Plus limited ruck stocks. Our pressure will be put to the test. If that holds up we could win more of these games than we expect. Bring on the mental focus Voss. Bring that on.
We are flying under everyone's radar at the moment. The external pressure will be much more obvious if we beat Freo this week.....
yeah but who are they? Amiss is the only one that looks promising. Taberner is a good size but he's a bit of a dud, and treacy is a relative unknown quantity.
Remember height is one thing the ability to perform at the level is another.
Treacy, Taberner, Jackson and Amiss have kicked 20 goals out of Freo's 38 goals so far this season. That's a potent group of tall forwards whichever way you look at it and they will stretch our defence regardless of who comes in for Marchy.
I can't see us bringing Pitto back (Freo rucks Jackson and Treacy) or swapping a tall defender for a small/medium defender. Cincotta has put his hand up, and he would probably be a good match up for Frederick, but I think Williams and Boyd have done enough to stay in the 22.
If we're going to win this one, and I think we will, it will be our team defence rather than individual match ups that will get the job done.
Treacy, Taberner, Jackson and Amiss have kicked 20 goals out of Freo's 38 goals so far this season. That's a potent group of tall forwards whichever way you look at it and they will stretch our defence regardless of who comes in for Marchy.
I can't see us bringing Pitto back (Freo rucks Jackson and Treacy) or swapping a tall defender for a small/medium defender. Cincotta has put his hand up, and he would probably be a good match up for Frederick, but I think Williams and Boyd have done enough to stay in the 22.
If we're going to win this one, and I think we will, it will be our team defence rather than individual match ups that will get the job done.
I like Amiss but the rest of their tall forwards are duds imho, in the past its been the Freo small forwards led by Schultz now at Collingwood who have worried us. Id be manning up Serong with Hewett and having a defensive half forward(Cottrell) on Young as well as making sure Ryan has an opponent to worry about and isnt allowed to play loose and rack up the intercepts.
If it was at Freo it might be more of fight to win but I think on neutral ground id expect to win by 3-5 goals.
Interesting to hear Fyfe speak about his new role and how he is there to do the grunt work, provide blocks etc and not be the main man anymore. Id be expecting him to work Cripps over and play a negative game on him and our other bigger mids like Kennedy....
I can't see us bringing Pitto back (Freo rucks Jackson and Treacy) or swapping a tall defender for a small/medium defender. Cincotta has put his hand up, and he would probably be a good match up for Frederick, but I think Williams and Boyd have done enough to stay in the 22.
Never say never.
Pittonet was very good in the VFL at the weekend.
There's been some suggestions about TDK playing back.
Could be an interesting selection meeting.
Never say never.
Pittonet was very good in the VFL at the weekend.
There's been some suggestions about TDK playing back.
Could be an interesting selection meeting.
People should know my background on the matter, but....
TDK is finally doing what we want him to do, consistently, after years of 'almosts'.....why the hell would we wanna rock the boat now just to bring Pitto in because he had a good game in the VFL.
I said all along i don't care who the hell it is, but we only need 1 ruck in the side. Shoehorning TDK into a defensive role is not fooling anyone, its still 2 rucks.
I think Voss and team wants more endurance runners that run in waves and handball alot.
TDK is smashing his personal bests and there is no stopping him.
I think Voss and team wants more endurance runners that run in waves and handball alot.
TDK is smashing his personal bests and there is no stopping him.
Exactly right.
We turned the season around when we had more runners in the side, Martin, Fogarty and Cuningham entered and our fortunes turned around. We went away from that in the final against Brisbane and it cost us.
We went back to 'normal' this year and results have repeated from our streak of 2023.
People should know my background on the matter, but....
TDK is finally doing what we want him to do, consistently, after years of 'almosts'.....why the hell would we wanna rock the boat now just to bring Pitto in because he had a good game in the VFL.
I said all along i don't care who the hell it is, but we only need 1 ruck in the side. Shoehorning TDK into a defensive role is not fooling anyone, its still 2 rucks.
We know your thoughts Kruds
You've mentioned them before ;) :D
I've no idea whether two rucks vs Freo would be a good idea.
I've no idea whether Tom could hold down a KPD defensive position
I'll leave that to the MC
There a bit more knowledgable than me when it comes to these things.
But I suspect there will be some games during the season when both play.
It will be a case of best match-ups and 'horses for courses'.
If it doesn't happen then I think Pittonet would (and should) be looking at a move at the end of the year.
If it doesn't happen then I think Pittonet would (and should) be looking at a move at the end of the year.
Potentially, but i wouldn't if i was him....at least not yet.
He could be a 1 week injury away from a premiership medal. Right place, right time.
All clubs are stocked up with rucks except West Coast - there won't be any interest in Pitto unless it was for back-up.
With Mirkov unlikely to make it - we need three rucks on the list. Hope he stays
I wouldnt want Pittonet leaving.....TDK isnt designed for continuous heavy duty ruck action imho and we would be left with nothing
but rookie and ruck novices. Its not that easy to get competent second stringers who can actually compete and break even with most teams No 1 rucks and while ruckman can be overrated in terms of importance when you lose your main ruckman you find life more difficult vs the better teams.
I wouldnt want Pittonet leaving.....TDK isnt designed for continuous heavy duty ruck action imho and we would be left with nothing
but rookie and ruck novices. Its not that easy to get competent second stringers who can actually compete and break even with most teams No 1 rucks and while ruckman can be overrated in terms of importance when you lose your main ruckman you find life more difficult vs the better teams.
Something funny about what I have seen lately. Harry and TDK get around the ground by foot very well for their size. They also play like ruck types that do better once the ball is in play both in the air as marking targets and getting the ball at ground level, rather than purely tap out specialist ruck type players. Harry isn’t a ruck. He can play there. TDK isn’t a specialised forward but can play there. Keep these two and swap to meet match up needs. Maybe we need mobile ruck and forward types with leg speed, endurance and ability to play the ball at ground level. Most sides learn how to play to the advantage of an opponent ruck tap style and intercept the tap out. The key tap out specialist might not be the best for a club. It works well at times but clever mid field players read their predictable taps. Their bulk makes them slow at ground level. Poor with endurance and their marking skills become their only fall back skill. If Jack wasn’t on a long term injury list, Pitts would probably not get more than two or three games for this entire season. I might be wrong and won’t claim to be an expert but it looks like things are about to change. How to inject speed at every level. Players that can get the ball below their knees and generate some transition the other way. Cripps might eventually just be used as a thug. Tough body to crash through smaller guts and hurt them or something else. Big body to absorb the pressure that would target the Double Dutch or Walsh and others. I just hope we get better with silly cute disposals. Just kick to targets with percentage play. Don’t be a smart arse. Back on TDK. He has huge potential. He needs to keep working. He is far from elite. He has many things to learn. He could be anything and is starting to show some real team benefits. I just hope he doesn’t get complacent as he has so much to show and he needs to deliver. I like what I am about to see. Let me see it young fella. Work hard buddy.
Something funny about what I have seen lately. Harry and TDK get around the ground by foot very well for their size. They also play like ruck types that do better once the ball is in play both in the air as marking targets and getting the ball at ground level, rather than purely tap out specialist ruck type players. Harry isn’t a ruck. He can play there. TDK isn’t a specialised forward but can play there. Keep these two and swap to meet match up needs. Maybe we need mobile ruck and forward types with leg speed, endurance and ability to play the ball at ground level. Most sides learn how to play to the advantage of an opponent ruck tap style and intercept the tap out. The key tap out specialist might not be the best for a club. It works well at times but clever mid field players read their predictable taps. Their bulk makes them slow at ground level. Poor with endurance and their marking skills become their only fall back skill. If Jack wasn’t on a long term injury list, Pitts would probably not get more than two or three games for this entire season. I might be wrong and won’t claim to be an expert but it looks like things are about to change. How to inject speed at every level. Players that can get the ball below their knees and generate some transition the other way. Cripps might eventually just be used as a thug. Tough body to crash through smaller guts and hurt them or something else. Big body to absorb the pressure that would target the Double Dutch or Walsh and others. I just hope we get better with silly cute disposals. Just kick to targets with percentage play. Don’t be a smart arse. Back on TDK. He has huge potential. He needs to keep working. He is far from elite. He has many things to learn. He could be anything and is starting to show some real team benefits. I just hope he doesn’t get complacent as he has so much to show and he needs to deliver. I like what I am about to see. Let me see it young fella. Work hard buddy.
I wouldnt want to over do Harry in the ruck and get him injured, easier to find tap ruckman than CHF's and I see him as that 5min a quarter ruckman who lines up against the opposition part timer, ie Larkey. When its Goldstein and Draper for example or Cameron/Cox, Darcy/Jackson etc Id be picking Pittonet to assist TDK and leaving Harry to do the odd bit of rucking down forward only.
I like Amiss but the rest of their tall forwards are duds imho, in the past its been the Freo small forwards led by Schultz now at Collingwood who have worried us. Id be manning up Serong with Hewett and having a defensive half forward(Cottrell) on Young as well as making sure Ryan has an opponent to worry about and isnt allowed to play loose and rack up the intercepts.
If it was at Freo it might be more of fight to win but I think on neutral ground id expect to win by 3-5 goals.
Interesting to hear Fyfe speak about his new role and how he is there to do the grunt work, provide blocks etc and not be the main man anymore. Id be expecting him to work Cripps over and play a negative game on him and our other bigger mids like Kennedy....
Duds who have kicked more than half of Freo's goals so far this season (and Taberner didn't play in round 1).
Freo's small forwards haven't been as potent without Schultz, with the exception of Frederick, who has been quite lively.
Never say never.
Pittonet was very good in the VFL at the weekend.
There's been some suggestions about TDK playing back.
Could be an interesting selection meeting.
From a couple of supporters and I'm not sure that the MC will treat their contribution all that seriously :)
Apart from not changing what has been a winning combination, how much time would Tom have spent training with the defence during the pre-season? It would be a big ask to change his role and expect him to fit into a group that is working like a well-oiled machine.
Yes, Pitto was good in the Magoos and Freo will have a bit of height on us at both ends of the ground. Recalling him won't be out of the question but it would mean a significant structural change and we'd lose a midfielder, probably Kennedy, who has been one of our unsung heroes with his grunt work.
From a couple of supporters and I'm not sure that the MC will treat their contribution all that seriously :)
When it was a bit of a toss-up between Tom and Pitto last year some commentators (David King, Gerard Healy ) were suggesting DeKoning should be tried in defence.
The club decided otherwise...
Given his ruck form this year it's an unliklely move.
It's an out of the box move.
An unpredictable one.
Sometimes the unpredictable is a good option.
But it takes courage because it can just as easily backfire.
And it's even more of a risk when something is working well...so probably not.
The question of who comes into the defence is of more interest.
I will be surprised if it's Young.
When it was a bit of a toss-up between Tom and Pitto last year some commentators (David King, Gerard Healy ) were suggesting DeKoning should be tried in defence.
The club decided otherwise...
Given his ruck form this year it's an unliklely move.
It's an out of the box move.
An unpredictable one.
Sometimes the unpredictable is a good option.
But it takes courage because it can just as easily backfire.
And it's even more of a risk when something is working well...so probably not.
The question of who comes into the defence is of more interest.
I will be surprised if it's Young.
Save that hail mary stuff for a final.
It will both catch the opposition off guard and will give TDK a chance to play there before the chance that his confidence could be sucked out of him.
Worst thing to do is play him there and ruin his confidence in both ruck and defense.
Save that hail mary stuff for a final.
It will both catch the opposition off guard and will give TDK a chance to play there before the chance that his confidence could be sucked out of him.
Worst thing to do is play him there and ruin his confidence in both ruck and defense.
Worst thing to do is become predictable.
Worst thing to do is close your mind to options and possibilities.
But while something is working it's unlikely there will be much change.
A consistent home and away team needs stability and understanding your roles.
TDK has been great in the ruck - looks much more battle hardened now and winning more tackles and clearances..and hit outs than last year. I don't think he is in good form its his natural growth and no one knows where his ceiling is just yet. Lets find out where that is and we will never find out if his rhythm is disrupted.
A consistent home and away team needs stability and understanding your roles.
TDK has been great in the ruck - looks much more battle hardened now and winning more tackles and clearances..and hit outs than last year. I don't think he is in good form its his natural growth and no one knows where his ceiling is just yet. Lets find out where that is and we will never find out if his rhythm is disrupted.
Agreed, he is not in good form yet but his confidence is growing and form should improve with confidence.
If anything it's an even bigger positive because he is finding ways to have influence even if he isn't dominating. In particular his 2nd Efforts and Body work are up on previous seasons, which makes it possible to put the brakes on opposition while making life just a little easier for Cripps and our other Mids.
One of the biggest things rucks learn with experience is where to be and when, putting themselves in just the right position to leave space for team-mates while hindering opponents. Kreuzer was always good at it, Gawn is exceptional, it happens 5m or 10m away from where the ball is to force opponents to deviate in a chase or be delayed closing space.
I reckon Tom De Koning is in career best form. I think that's largely due his greater opportunity to stay involved in the game this season.
From a statistical viewpoint, most of his numbers are significantly higher, particularly hitouts, tackles, metres gained, inside 50s and rebound 50s, and his disposal efficiency is much higher. He is ranked 6th for hitouts.
The thing with Tom is that we really don't know how good he can be.
For me good form in the ruck isn't just about personal stats, it's about stopping opponents from getting similar results. It's always been one of my arguments against some of our alternative 2nd ruck options, because despite doing OK themselves they aren't able to restrict their opponents, they let opponents of the leash.
So for me a ruck in very good form dominates and supresses opponents, at the moment TDK is playing well but for me he is mostly breaking even with his direct opponents.
Don't get me wrong, he's playing well, and going head to head with very good rucks like Gawn and Nankervis, when he puts them to the sword like they have done to him in the past that's when he'll be at his best.
Not sure TDK is going that great....didnt think he dominated vs Nth and his opponent Xerri who could be described as awkward at best matched him in the ruck and was better in the clearances and contested work. Think both of them took one mark for the game each....
Im not paying TDK a zillion a year based on that effort and imho he is a tad overrated for what he delivers....I preferred his game when Pittonet would spend the first half softening their opponents up and TDK would take over later in the game and be more dominating....
Not sure TDK is going that great....didnt think he dominated vs Nth and his opponent Xerri who could be described as awkward at best matched him in the ruck and was better in the clearances and contested work. Think both of them took one mark for the game each....
Im not paying TDK a zillion a year based on that effort and imho he is a tad overrated for what he delivers....I preferred his game when Pittonet would spend the first half softening their opponents up and TDK would take over later in the game and be more dominating....
I think the other thing to think about in this equation is how beneficial it has been for Harry to be the support ruckman - he gets to escape the smothering that happens in the forward line, get some disposals and make an impact - and I reckon his forward work has improved because of that. If we run TDK and Pitto, Harry probably stays stuck in the forward line.
I think the other thing to think about in this equation is how beneficial it has been for Harry to be the support ruckman - he gets to escape the smothering that happens in the forward line, get some disposals and make an impact - and I reckon his forward work has improved because of that. If we run TDK and Pitto, Harry probably stays stuck in the forward line.
Fair points Tonyo...Harry has benefited from his holidays from the forward line and seems happier with himself which has made us a better team so far. I still think there is a place for Pittonet in a horses for courses sense and Im still unsure on TDK and how he will go rucking the majority of every game for the entire season. Be a good test for TDK vs Jackson from Freo who has been playing better with Darcy missing and I'll be watching with interest how he and Harry handle the workload.
IN
Brodie Kemp
-
OUT
Caleb Marchbank (Injured)
HTF Fantasia keeps getting a game is beyond me. The photos must be incriminating.
HTF Fantasia keeps getting a game is beyond me. The photos must be incriminating.
I don't think he's been all that bad, albeit his possession count has been low, he definitely has a touch of class when he gets his hands on it. You also need to look at who he is keeping out and I'm not sure anyone is knocking the door down ATM. This will definitely change in the coming weeks as Martin, and Motlop become available.
Both of those need to come back via the seconds. No automatic selections. No passengers.
Both of those need to come back via the seconds. No automatic selections. No passengers.
Martin is quality but fragile, I wouldn’t wast any games he can play in the seconds unless he needs to find fitness, but I agree with your sentiment in general.
One thing we should not overlook, is that from a team point of view, two of our best performances last year (v Swans and Melb in Sept) it was the Pittonet / TDK combination that worked for us. It should not be discounted when the time is right.
Horses for courses playing 2 rucks it's that simple, no need to complicate it. TDK is the No 1 ruck, Pittonet only comes in when TDK injured or the opposition demands it. TDK' s next phase of development is to learn the skills that Gawn has which someone mentioned. I.e when you don't have the ball, block, shepherd, clear a path for the smaller players Kreuzer was very good at this, played like a ruck rover when the ball hit the ground. Very team oriented and smart. TDK yet to learn these aspects of the craft IMO.
HTF Fantasia keeps getting a game is beyond me. The photos must be incriminating.
I think he's playing a selfless role, has football nous a plenty and is playing a position that isn't going to rack up stats. Boyd and fantasia both were in a position to have a rush of blood and try score a goal but lowered their eyes and spotted up a team mate closer and in better position to score resulting in goals.
I'd wager he's a leader in our forward line too where there are a lot of players who haven't had a proper mentor so willing to let him do that.
So far he hasn't been stellar but he hasn't really done much wrong either.
Let's hope captain Crippa is quick to recover after the baby Koda arrival.
Wonderful news for Mr & Mrs Crippa.
HTF Fantasia keeps getting a game is beyond me. The photos must be incriminating.
Might prove to be a useful sub
Might prove to be a useful sub
We’ve had Durdin and Fantasia as the sub in the last two games and it looks like it’s Durdin’s turn this round.
Raz was good when he came on last week and he is noticeably more vocal than our other forwards. Perhaps that’s part of the reason he’s in the 23.
I quite like the idea of a small forward as the sub and I expect that we’ll see Durdin, Fantasia and even Motlop in the sub vest throughout the season.
Not sure TDK is going that great....didnt think he dominated vs Nth and his opponent Xerri who could be described as awkward at best matched him in the ruck and was better in the clearances and contested work. Think both of them took one mark for the game each....
Im not paying TDK a zillion a year based on that effort and imho he is a tad overrated for what he delivers....I preferred his game when Pittonet would spend the first half softening their opponents up and TDK would take over later in the game and be more dominating....
TDKs ruck craft is lacking.....its always been lacking.
However, TDKs around the ground work was where he was supposed to 'pay off' and that is what has lifted to a level we all hoped.
He hasn't hit his ceiling yet, but he is a step above where he was last year.
Can we get more out of TDK if we have Pitto in the side. Absolutely. 1-2 combo punch between them gives us a more dominant ruck combo.
Is the team better off as a whole by the increased ruck stocks? Keeping in mind a whole other player is not picked as a result, probably a Fogarty, Durdin, Fantasia type misses out. We lose our run and pressure, which i think is our key.
Of course the added benefit is the confidence boosting we are getting by letting Harry run free as backup ruck as well.
TDKs ruck craft is lacking.....its always been lacking.
However, TDKs around the ground work was where he was supposed to 'pay off' and that is what has lifted to a level we all hoped.
He hasn't hit his ceiling yet, but he is a step above where he was last year.
Can we get more out of TDK if we have Pitto in the side. Absolutely. 1-2 combo punch between them gives us a more dominant ruck combo.
Is the team better off as a whole by the increased ruck stocks? Keeping in mind a whole other player is not picked as a result, probably a Fogarty, Durdin, Fantasia type misses out. We lose our run and pressure, which i think is our key.
Of course the added benefit is the confidence boosting we are getting by letting Harry run free as backup ruck as well.
That's probably the one/two ruck debate in a nutshell.
Is it more beneficial to play two rucks or one?
It's dependent on a number of factors and variables.
1) Are Pitto and TDK uninjured and in form?
2) Who is Pittonet or Tom being replaced by?
3) What skills and abilities does the player replacing the ruckman bring to the side.
4) Does the extra 'run' from one player contribute more than a two pronged ruck attack
These are questions that can't always be easily answered.
An extra player replacing the ruckman would no doubt be a fringe player.
Many of our fringe players are actually role players, in the side for specific tasks.
When Walsh is available....
It won't be a choice between Walsh and Pittonet.
It will come down to a choice between Pittonet and a fringe player.
What impact can a fringe player can have on the outcome of a game.
There may be an advantage in some games, but surely not every game.
So each game must be looked at in terms of the best side, matching up against opposition strengths and weaknesses.
In respect of Harry doing the second rucking work....it's working well three games in.
Will it be working well 20 games in, or will Harry suffer the same fatigue and stress, that Jack Silvagni experienced when called upon to perform that role.
The thing is we have options, we have the ability to manage players.
We can rotate them around, even rest them if the oppostion doesn't require them to perform a role that week.
Will it be working well 20 games in, or will Harry suffer the same fatigue and stress, that Jack Silvagni experienced when called upon to perform that role.
The thing is we have options, we have the ability to manage players.
We can rotate them around, even rest them if the oppostion doesn't require them to perform a role that week.
The risk is immensely disproportional to the benefit of those two options. I'd say they deliver about the same in terms of 2nd ruck, at least at the moment, but on the risk side one is a Coleman medallist entering his prime the other a useful utility on the fringe of the 22.
The thing is we have options, we have the ability to manage players.
We can rotate them around, even rest them if the oppostion doesn't require them to perform a role that week.
What we do week to week depends far more on the opposition list than the capabilities and combinations of our own list, how well our team is managed by the MC will determine the fate of our team's 2024 campaign.
Owies the sub.